Tremendous truth from one of the clear voices of biblical teaching. You can change any clear gospel teaching to mean what you want, but if you want to the truth on this topic Packer’s reasoning is solid and his source is Scripture. Thank you, J.I. Packer, for a life that was well-lived and for you teaching that protected the gospel. In the end it protected you.
JI Packer is one of a kind. He is correct that Christians must abandon it. Of course many groups will not abandon it anyway. I honestly don't think someone who openly embraces same sex marriage or homosexuality AND claims to be a Christian cannot be both in one. They aren't Christian.
J.I Packer was a great GODLY man with lots of GODLY wisdom & minister. Gay marriages and unions are contrary to the true biblical gospel. To all my gay friends & family members, that GOD loves you and wants you to be healed & changed from the inside spiritually to outwardly heterosexual &/or celibate.
I am not gay. You may not be either, but it still concerns MOST of us. Don't miss the point. I was an adulterer, and I could be considered a thief, but I have been washed and sanctified, and therefore I work my salvation with fear and trembling, I strive each day to kill my desires, I pummel my flesh, I take my cross and I live in the faith of Christ. And while I hold the biblical truth that our beloved brother Packer shared, let us hold it against ourselves too for sanctification.
AMEN Bro! Praise God for His unspeakable gift! Keep fighting the good fight of faith my brother Remember that Jesus said we must press into the kingdom of God! No matter what man may say, God in the flesh said the way is narrow and few there be that find it! Stay holy and pure before a thrice holy God! I'll see you in heaven bro! Cease ye from man who's breath is in his nostrils
In Corinthians Paul said we must not be deceived : Jim Packer is Pauline in his theology. Jesus made it clear for all time that marriage is between a man and a woman, we cannot go beyond the teaching of the Word made flesh.
Hebrews 12: 14Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord: 15Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled; 16Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright. 17For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.
These three verses are all one sentence. bitterness - unforgiveness is the root and if you don't put the axe to the root its fruit is fornication... you cant pick bad fruit (sinful action) off from a bad tree (sinner - unregenerate - NOT born again) and expect good fruit to grow in its place. you need to put the axe to the root - born again of the Spirit of Jesus to establish a good root then good fruit will follow. Hence John 15 Jesus is the vine abide in Him.
no, this is not correct; the word arsenokoitai ( a plural) is the greek word, used in the greek translation of the hebrew original (septuaginta) of the Leviticus-texts referring to homosexuals. Preciously this word uses Paul in the Roman-text. There is no doubt, that the translation 'homosexual' is correct. The word 'malakos' is usually used in the meaning of: feminish, soft. Apparently the word was in koine-greek (Paul's greek) a synonym for 'arsenokotai' = homosexuals.
Rev. Packer: you are right! The Bible clearly teaches that ALL ACTIVE HOMOSEXUALS AND HOMOSEXUALITY SYMPATHIZERS ARE GOING TO HELL FOR AN ETERNITY, UNLESS THEY COME TO FULL REPENTANCE AND GOD FORGIVES THEM!!
A typo is not an indicator of intellectual laziness. I am well aware that the word is spelled ad and not "add". And you are well aware what I meant despite the typo. This kind of invective is part and parcel of dealing with people who support your perspective and it is counterproductive in the discussion of this very important issue. Grow up and deal with the arguments.
Malakoi was the word use by Paul, it has 44 translations. "Translating malakoi as homosexuals imposes a twentieth or twenty first century cultural meaning on the text which malakoi did not mean in the first century. If malakoi was not a universally understood reference to homosexuals in the first century when Paul used it, then malakoi does not mean homosexual today."
Red Herring. It has been nearly 2 decades since I studied and debated this issue. I would suggest you read James B De Young's, "What Every Christian Should Know About Homosexuality and Civil Rights." And there is a lot more to this than a simple look at malakos or arsenokoitai. When forming a doctrine, the whole of scripture must be employed including OT as well as NT. And in a thorough investigation, the Apocrypha and Pseudepigrapha should also be studied. The long and the short of it is that homosexuality is offensive to God. That's all that matters.
this is not correct. Paul uses 2 words donoting homosexuality: malakoi and arsenokoinai. The last word is used in the septuagint in the Leviticus-texts denoting sexual intercourse between a male and a male.
I don't think that succesful apologetics work by just quoting scripture, we must return to the way of the Church Fathers, and use secular philosophy to prove Christian points.
We all know what St Paul said. But what does one's heart say in the presence of a gay couple whose relationship gives joy and abundance not just to them but to all around them? 'End your relationship' seems to me to miss the language of the heart... Consider too what such an injunction says about God: that God is against joy and abundance. Is that true? Could any person love such a God?
Nicholas Harris I hear your sincerity but what says the scripture? Does God require one to walk after the emotions swirling in one's heart in any given moment? What says the scripture about the condition of man's heart? "He that walketh after his own heart is a fool" Pr. "the heart is desperately wicked and deceitful above ALL THINGS, who can know it?" Jer. This is where the matter grows quite constrained. As hackneyed as it is "Things are not always as they appear" "All that glitters is not gold" Sin is always pleasurable at first.
Nicholas Harris we all take joy in our sins. The bible calls it “the pleasures of sin”; and be sure - those around us will affirm our sin and share in those sins. They do so, not because the sins aren’t really heinous in the sight of God, but instead because they too, are sinners. We all do this. So we shouldn’t let our sinful hearts direct the course of our speech in that sense. If our speech if seasoned with the gospel, we will instead affirm the goodness of friendships and relationships in all they bring us whilst at the same time marking clear lines where the gospel marks them.
You can not understand this while being in the flesh. When you are of the Spirit (our Lord), then you do. It is our goal the salvation of our souls. This is a passing world.
that word does not mean “homosexual,” and its range of meaning includes one who anally penetrates another (female or male), a rapist, a murderer or an extortionist. Arsenokoitai, as used by our ancient ancestors, NEVER refers to a faithful, committed, loving, non-cultic partnership between two men or two women.
DR Jim packer? DR???? how is it that evangelicals quite happily allow themselves to be addressed with their academic titles. but never their priestly/ecclesiastical titles. he was REV dr Jim Packer. REV.
Tremendous truth from one of the clear voices of biblical teaching. You can change any clear gospel teaching to mean what you want, but if you want to the truth on this topic Packer’s reasoning is solid and his source is Scripture. Thank you, J.I. Packer, for a life that was well-lived and for you teaching that protected the gospel. In the end it protected you.
Phenomenal and want an amazong way to put it. People that dance around this very clear topic is troubling.
JI Packer is one of a kind. He is correct that Christians must abandon it. Of course many groups will not abandon it anyway. I honestly don't think someone who openly embraces same sex marriage or homosexuality AND claims to be a Christian cannot be both in one. They aren't Christian.
what clarity. We need more of these kinds of teachers
J.I Packer was a great GODLY man with lots of GODLY wisdom & minister. Gay marriages and unions are contrary to the true biblical gospel. To all my gay friends & family members, that GOD loves you and wants you to be healed & changed from the inside spiritually to outwardly heterosexual &/or celibate.
Clear, solid and unapologetic. J.I. how we miss you
"NO COMPROMISE..." BLESS THIS "HOLY MAN.." BROTHER JAMES 🙏
Great, solid reasoning. He explains why this issue is not adiaphorous ... and why the answer must necessarily be the traditional Christian one.
Marriage is defined and ordained by God our Creator alone. Men can’t change it.
I am not gay. You may not be either, but it still concerns MOST of us.
Don't miss the point.
I was an adulterer, and I could be considered a thief, but I have been washed and sanctified, and therefore I work my salvation with fear and trembling, I strive each day to kill my desires, I pummel my flesh, I take my cross and I live in the faith of Christ. And while I hold the biblical truth that our beloved brother Packer shared, let us hold it against ourselves too for sanctification.
AMEN Bro!
Praise God for His unspeakable gift!
Keep fighting the good fight of faith my brother
Remember that Jesus said we must press into the kingdom of God!
No matter what man may say,
God in the flesh said the way is narrow and few there be that find it!
Stay holy and pure before a thrice holy God!
I'll see you in heaven bro!
Cease ye from man who's breath is in his nostrils
In Corinthians Paul said we must not be deceived : Jim Packer is Pauline in his theology.
Jesus made it clear for all time that marriage is between a man and a woman, we cannot go beyond the teaching of the Word made flesh.
He's not doing apologetics here. The audience is supposed to be the Anglican church. We use Scriptural reasoning to decide issues in the church.
Sin is deadly. Sin will send you to hell. If you enjoy your sin above Christ, you won't repent and will not enter the kingdom of God....
Hebrews 12: 14Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord: 15Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled; 16Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright. 17For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.
These three verses are all one sentence. bitterness - unforgiveness is the root and if you don't put the axe to the root its fruit is fornication... you cant pick bad fruit (sinful action) off from a bad tree (sinner - unregenerate - NOT born again) and expect good fruit to grow in its place. you need to put the axe to the root - born again of the Spirit of Jesus to establish a good root then good fruit will follow. Hence John 15 Jesus is the vine abide in Him.
no, this is not correct; the word arsenokoitai ( a plural) is the greek word, used in the greek translation of the hebrew original (septuaginta) of the Leviticus-texts referring to homosexuals. Preciously this word uses Paul in the Roman-text. There is no doubt, that the translation 'homosexual' is correct. The word 'malakos' is usually used in the meaning of: feminish, soft. Apparently the word was in koine-greek (Paul's greek) a synonym for 'arsenokotai' = homosexuals.
Rev. Packer: you are right! The Bible clearly teaches that ALL ACTIVE HOMOSEXUALS AND HOMOSEXUALITY SYMPATHIZERS ARE GOING TO HELL FOR AN ETERNITY, UNLESS THEY COME TO FULL REPENTANCE AND GOD FORGIVES THEM!!
A typo is not an indicator of intellectual laziness. I am well aware that the word is spelled ad and not "add". And you are well aware what I meant despite the typo. This kind of invective is part and parcel of dealing with people who support your perspective and it is counterproductive in the discussion of this very important issue. Grow up and deal with the arguments.
It is Ok to be you and it's Ok for me not to be you.
I don't find it ok to be me, much
brandyspearsca.... perhaps... in answer to your comment. With the exception that 3 billion people aren't actual followers of leprachauns.
Malakoi was the word use by Paul, it has 44 translations. "Translating malakoi as homosexuals imposes a twentieth or twenty first century cultural meaning on the text which malakoi did not mean in the first century. If malakoi was not a universally understood reference to homosexuals in the first century when Paul used it, then malakoi does not mean homosexual today."
Red Herring. It has been nearly 2 decades since I studied and debated this issue. I would suggest you read James B De Young's, "What Every Christian Should Know About Homosexuality and Civil Rights." And there is a lot more to this than a simple look at malakos or arsenokoitai. When forming a doctrine, the whole of scripture must be employed including OT as well as NT. And in a thorough investigation, the Apocrypha and Pseudepigrapha should also be studied. The long and the short of it is that homosexuality is offensive to God. That's all that matters.
That's complete garbage.
Interact with the arguments he puts forth. Add hominem arguments are for the intellectually lazy.
this is not correct. Paul uses 2 words donoting homosexuality: malakoi and arsenokoinai. The last word is used in the septuagint in the Leviticus-texts denoting sexual intercourse between a male and a male.
I don't think that succesful apologetics work by just quoting scripture, we must return to the way of the Church Fathers, and use secular philosophy to prove Christian points.
Por0 then how do we possibly support the bible without using it? the first christians always did this
@@lew1689 he didn't say "don't use the bible". You're missing the nuance of his message.
We all know what St Paul said. But what does one's heart say in the presence of a gay couple whose relationship gives joy and abundance not just to them but to all around them? 'End your relationship' seems to me to miss the language of the heart...
Consider too what such an injunction says about God: that God is against joy and abundance. Is that true? Could any person love such a God?
Nicholas Harris I hear your sincerity but what says the scripture? Does God require one to walk after the emotions swirling in one's heart in any given moment? What says the scripture about the condition of man's heart? "He that walketh after his own heart is a fool" Pr. "the heart is desperately wicked and deceitful above ALL THINGS, who can know it?" Jer. This is where the matter grows quite constrained. As hackneyed as it is "Things are not always as they appear" "All that glitters is not gold" Sin is always pleasurable at first.
Nicholas Harris we all take joy in our sins. The bible calls it “the pleasures of sin”; and be sure - those around us will affirm our sin and share in those sins. They do so, not because the sins aren’t really heinous in the sight of God, but instead because they too, are sinners. We all do this. So we shouldn’t let our sinful hearts direct the course of our speech in that sense. If our speech if seasoned with the gospel, we will instead affirm the goodness of friendships and relationships in all they bring us whilst at the same time marking clear lines where the gospel marks them.
You can not understand this while being in the flesh. When you are of the Spirit (our Lord), then you do. It is our goal the salvation of our souls. This is a passing world.
that word does not mean “homosexual,” and its range of meaning includes one who anally penetrates another (female or male), a rapist, a murderer or an extortionist. Arsenokoitai, as used by our ancient ancestors, NEVER refers to a faithful, committed, loving, non-cultic partnership between two men or two women.
DR Jim packer? DR???? how is it that evangelicals quite happily allow themselves to be addressed with their academic titles. but never their priestly/ecclesiastical titles. he was REV dr Jim Packer. REV.
Isn't a theologian the equivalent of a leprachaunologist?
no
Reason? You must be kidding