MGS2's Colonel AI SHOCKINGLY Describes MGSV's Venom Snake
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- Опубликовано: 1 окт 2024
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E
You mean Metal Gear Solid "context" ;-)
@@earthlyexpat You're pretty good.
naked snake is a lie?!
Whereas MGS2 was a story with an uplifting message of self determination, freedom from emulating a war legend, and discovering the truth, MGSV is the opposite, a cautionary tale in which a man (YOU) fully accepts the fiction of being someone else and being forgotten in a sea of lies.
Venom was just the test run for the S3 program the whole time.
Exactly couldn’t of said it better myself 💯💯💯
Plus it was a bait and switch like mgs2. Oh you wanna big boss? Pfft no, heres a jobber that has had his missions simulated in his head, venom is just raiden mk 1
@@codyayo6158 moreso a perfected Raiden who unlike Raiden did not win back his freedom but you get to actually be Big Boss and take his tape recording at the end as a congratulatory message, only to realize that you are fated to die as a fakeout to Solid Snake later on. You are doomed die as a nobody.
Nope the s3 would be based on the experience of venom technically
@@Glamosapien what I meant to say was that Venom is what the Patriots would have wanted Raiden to be like.
While this process took a lot of time and money to replicate, it was successful at using Raiden to fulfill their ends but no longer had a use for him after that. Venom was just stuck in the role until the end of his life.
This was then replicated in the SOP system in MGS4 with hundreds of thousands of soldiers being molded to become just another Snake, just another self made protagonist only this time it was more blatant, copypasta renditions now more easily replicated.
The BB corps were also just copypasta Foxhound (and by extension Cobra Unit members) with similar backstories that are so stereotypical and generic but that was the point.
I always thought the whole “he’s experienced all of your missions on record” had a double meaning, as in also referring to the player who played the previous games. That through the act of playing and immersing ourselves into the game, we in a sense take on the identity of the character
And that sounds fitting. Kojima has made it clear, at least since MGS2, that a lot of the 'experience' with the events of the game has to do as much with what the player is experiencing going through the game as much as the events the character goes through. As much as S3 was this event that took place involving Raiden and NY, the player was involved in the lie finding halfway through that the experience they thought were getting was in fact not it, not unlike the parallel of playing MGSV and its events.
Mantis reading the memory card, and this kind of headnod, Metal Gear likes to drag us into the story too, even a little.
It is both! MGS2 was as much for us as it was Raiden.
I think that the other games you play are done by venom in your control in a vr mission.
Yeah, MGS2 was very much about Kojima's frustration with Konami's approach to sequels, and how that might negatively impact the player, as it is about what's happening in his fictional world. "All they can do is repeat the same pattern," refers to both The Patriots and his publishers. After all, even if Raiden wasn't at Shadow Moses, the player has probably player MGS and The VR missions before MGS2, and has all the skills and story knowledge needed. Why try to surprise them with the same story twists?
However. he is also very strict about keeping a cannon of events and calling back even the oldest games in the series, with the singular exception of Solid Snakes Revenge, which he contradicts as often as possible ("I don't like to use knives").
So does that mean the difference between Venom Snake and Raiden is that Venom accepted his role?
Yes
@@LedNe0nDevil Nice opinion, but I am inside your house.
@@roseCatcher_ imagine liking your own comment
@@capybara9521 Yes, imagined.
No because venom snake was not a pawn for the patriots, his role was to draw they're fire while big boss waged war against them, raiden was simply being used by them. The same thesis but for 2 sides, which is why v's story line has so many gaps that need filling. Why would zero be directly involved with the creation of the agent whose mission was to draw his fire?? Best i can think of is venom was created by zero in order to be a sleeper agent amongst big boss's ranks for whatever reason much like paz. MgsV really is weird
Raiden is about moving on from Snake.
Venom is about wanting more of snake and more Metal Gear.
Raiden goes on to become somone
Venom becomes Bigboss and dies to your idol, Snake in a old game from the MSX.
So Venom Snake is what happens when someone just decides to live the lies you are being delivered. If raiden didn't break his conditioning he could end the same as Venom Snake.
And by end up the same do you mean burned to a crisp?
@@jrtien too be big boss you must get the extra crispy option like darth Vader
@@sonicfighter64 Quiet is Chico AND Big Boss confirmed?!?! 😨
Omg, i just realized that Venom Snake didn't hate being Venom Snake at all! He was a dedicated soldier to Big Boss in the first place, so to live as him and to get the messages he does from Big Boss has to feel like the greatest accomplishment to him.
I don’t know… could he really feel all that accomplished playing Big Boss and taking credit for what he’d done and not actually earn the respect and loyalty Soldiers had towards Big Boss. Plus, now he can’t make his own legend. And he can NEVER achieve his own legend status. No one would ever know who he was before his life and mind were ripped from him by Zero and Big Boss himself.
Personally I think Zero and Big Boss didn’t intend for Venom to go “Demon” on the world. He just need to be a distraction. So at the end when Venom smirks when hearing he is now also Big Boss, I think it’s a smirk that says “You just fucked up John. Cause I’m going to take this power and legend you gave me and use it to tarnish your legend. I’m going watch the world burn and it YOU who’s gonna be the fall guy this time. Not me.”
@@InTheMindOfDavid no, that IS his legend: he IS Big Boss, he IS Venom Snake. Snake's legend is his own, they are both sides of a coin.
And they planned for him to go demon, so it made the plot make sense when Solid had to kill him TWICE.
@@1o1roman1o1 But there’s still only ONE REAL Big Boss. And trust me I completely understand the killing Big Boss twice stuff. So not sure why that came up. While the intention was for Venom to be a villain to draw eyes onto himself and not the real Big Boss, but he went too far. And so what if it’s technically his legacy too, that doesn’t mean it’s actually his and it also doesn’t mean that because he shares that legacy he wouldn’t do anything jeopardize that legacy. That doesnt mean that after hearing the truth and it doesnt fuck him up in someway knowing that the leader he gave everything to, ripped his identity away from him and memories implanted into his psyche. That’s mentally traumatizing. Conscience because he’s not himself anymore, and subconsciously because his original self is still there under the surface. Hence breaking the mirror and smirk. Big Boss gave him a get of jail free card, and the ability to lead any soldier in the world.
So he takes it too far, with the intent of making Big Boss out to be more of a monster than he actually was. Knowing that, sure, eventually someone’s gonna kill him but that still doesn’t change the fact that now Big Boss has to shoulder the burden of the blame for the things Venom did in his name, jeopardizing everything all for Revenge. The theme of the game is revenge, so why the fuck wouldn’t the most pivotal twist in the game, the Truth, wouldn’t then lead to an Act or series of Actions of revenge from someone who had his mind and body stolen by the person he just took a piece of shrapnel to the head for, by destroying the very imagine of Big Boss in the eyes of the world. Exacting his own revenge because his Phantom Pain is the pain that his personality was essentially killed by Big Boss and buried into his subconscious. I sure as fuck know Id want to get revenge if what happened to the Medic happened to me.
@@daddy_1453 I don’t think he was angry about not being able to make his own legend, I just used that as an example in my first comment. If you read my second comment I go in depth into why I think Venom would actually want revenge on Big Boss. I also think him punch the mirror is him shattering the illusion of him believing he’s big boss like he did all through MGV, but symbolically it also represents the shattering of his psyche. As I stated previously, what Big Boss and Zero did to him mental is EXTREMELY TRAUMATIZING. Especially on the subconscious level. To have one’s identity ripped from them or buried deep within their mind to build a new identity, that takes a toll on the mind. Plus there’s also the shrapnel in his brain that’s gonna change anyone on a fundamental level just like boxers or football players receiving too many concussions and it changing them to be more violent and erratic.
At the end of the day, sure we’re all just speculating and technically we all get to decide why each of our own Venom ends up where they do at the end of MG1 but if we continue with MGSV’s theme of revenge it would appear what Venom does up till the end of MG1 is to tarnish Big Boss legacy further as revenge for what they did to Venom. But that’s just my interpretation.
@@daddy_1453 but venom was never a slave, he was already willingly following big boss so comparing him to any slave who were forced into servitude in the first place and who had no choice is wrong
Imagine in Peace Walker, Venom chilling on your Medical staff tab
History has a way of repeating itself. There are SO many characters that play the same role as those before them. Snake finally broke the cycle when he helped Raiden realize he needed to choose his own path and not follow one set by predecessors.
And look where they both end up. Same place, on an operating table and turned into a machine of war. 😢
@@RecluseBootsy It's sad but Raiden still has a chance!
This just shows how great of a writer Kojima is. He ties everything all together nicely, and it feels like everything in the multitude of stories he's created is 100% deliberate. Thank you for this insight!
Some people like to make fun of how convoluted or crazy everything gets, it is part of the charm the whole saga has, we have art imitating life to mind-blowing degrees there, Kojima is always really conscious of the times we are living and his own body of work, no doubt about it.
Haven't played DS yet, but I can almost guarantee that V will go down in history as something which elevated gaming to heights never seen before and probably as his greatest achievement too, all things considered...
The phantom pain never stops, NBGO baby! 🤟
Bro. Kojima can't even write his own name on a piece of paper. The geniuses were others.
@@supremeworld87 I respectfully disagree. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, though.
@@elcesaru I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion.
@@supremeworld87 Tomozaku Fukushima he's behind all the brilliant parts of MGS2, Kojima wrote things like fatman and vamp.
But just like Konami deletes Kojimas existence with MGS he deleted somone else's brilliance before. Kojima is given far too much credit for everything.
S3 was an expansion of the Omega Project done to Venom but on a larger scale and on a conscious individual. Raiden was meant to be Venom 2.0
This is interesting.
As a matter of fact, Kojima was mentioning how almost opposite the phantom pain was gonna be compared to the story of mgs2 when in the making of mgs5. @PythonSelkan, you just discovered a "past versus present" version of Yin Yang.
Very well done here, you spot the most nuance things, Hideo level of detail, you should be proud, carrying the franchise on your back bud.
Thank you so much for your kind comment! 🙏🐍
- P&S
Kojima loves playing 3D Chess
So true. Also it's weird how MGS2 got a lot of things spot on with real life today and digital age etc too that game was so ahead of its time. Hideo Kojima is the grand master
"MGS2 got a lot of things spot on with real life today"
Today? MGS2 was an accurate representation of real life _when it came out._ What you're noticing is how nothing's changed since then.
@@CoralCopperHead Yeah I'll never understand how people think this was some prophecy. You can use that clip to describe many different points in history along with the modern day.
It's almost like what is being said here is being generalized just enough to apply anywhere you want it to.
Or maybe he (and his team) were trying to tell us something without telling us directly.
@@QuaestorL Indeed. When you know the plan you can predict the future. Unless of course... something were to happen that would throw off the plan entirely.
@@im3phirebird81 the plan was already in motion, it has been since the 80s.
After seeing this is feel quite cool to see that Raiden thus does become his own person with beliefs, powers and ideals. Sure maybe they slightly mirror the Solid Snake persona but in MGRR Raiden really came into his own being after the events of 4
If only they had casted David Hayter for the real big boss with Sutherland as Venom. Would have actually blown my mind.
Pisses me off that kojima pretty much dropped him and didnt do that. Would have been an even greater game
@@mrranga283 It made me lose most respect for Kojima. David Hayter was Snake, his voice is just so iconic for the character. He got shafted just because Kojima wanted more "Hollywood" in his games.
I don't blame Keifer for it though. He just did his work, and did it well enough. Just would have liked if it didn't come at the cost of Hayter's legacy.
There's a reason David isn't in the game imo. Big boss is a hallucination just like paz.
@@soltythomas @Cyra Kojima should have brought hayter at the end as the real big boss keeping the Hollywood and making his game make sense.
David can’t voice Venom in MGSV because he’s infected with the English Voice Parasites 🦠
MGSV was merely the early stages of the S3 Plan and venom snake along with the events of operation snake eater was essentially it’s paradigm. What makes this concept so interesting on a number of levels is if you think about it any MG game post big boss era, which is I would say his era ends once he’s known or at least portrayed as a villain during the events of outer heaven, each game tries to in someway mirror the events of snake eater that made big boss who he is. For example MG, MG2, MGS1, and MGS2 are merely a progressing of the S3, seeing how all of them are similar in a way. Solid Snake has to take down big boss to be recognized as the legendary soldier or at least an attempt to be his predecessor, especially considering the fact that he’s one of the three clones of BigBoss. Lol I already ramble enough as it is, so I’ll finish up and say this Venom Snake, Solid Snake, Liquid Snake, Solidus Snake, and Raiden we’re all intentionally meant to be a copy shaped in the image of big boss both directly and indirectly. Some through genetic engineering, others through social engineering, natural experiences or through a manipulation of orchestrated events.
Damn... that was actually pretty chilling.
Actually, I suspect that Hot Coldman modeled Snake Eater after the confrontation between the Boss and her lover, the Sorrow. He decided in his sadistic sense of irony to place her in the opposite position.
Thus, Zero decided to use this traumatic experience as the base for his future plans from here on out.
@@soychidoese I've always felt like the S3 experiment goes back BEFORE The Boss all the way back to The Philosophers and the confrontation between her and The Sorrow was just the first version of S3 that we've heard about in the story canon. Before she took out The Sorrow, she was The Joy, I don't believe she was know as The Boss then.
@@furrybproductions right. I was just using her title as she's currently known as.
She was used and forced to sacrifice herself to be molded into something else for the benefit of the Philosophers.
@@soychidoese Wow that’s very interesting, and at the same time very intimidating lol, but it does make a lot of sense and has key points to compare the two.
@@furrybproductions Wow now that’s truly a plot twist right there, giving that the philosophers are basically what the patriots were well at least the pre AI ones were in the MG series, and I could be wrong it’s been a while since I played snake eater, but didn’t the philosophers orchestrate the events of the boss and the sorrow becoming enemies towards one another ?
In the end Miller was the trator back then, but Huey was still guilty of lying, killing strangelove, and using radiation to mutate the parasites so someone could get a english one. Do we have anything on Miller during the game still working for Cypher, or is he just a cast off Cypher was done using?
Yeah a cast off leech and parasite. Once Big Boss and Zero made their deal in the hospital behind Miller’s back, he was officially cut out of Big Boss’s inner circle and from the Patriots entirely. That’s why once he found out about the truth of who Venom was, Miller declared war on Big Boss and Zero swearing to bring them down and began training Solid Snake with specific intent to assassinate Big Boss. He was shown that he never held any real power. It just confirmed that he was actually in fact a parasite latched onto Big Boss and Zero which he even admits to being after Venom rescued him in Afghanistan.
Miller was just the middle man Zero used to reestablish contact with Big Boss, and someone to help manage MSF while Big Boss went out and made a legend of himself. Once Zero was back in the picture, due to his virtually limitless funds and VAST information network of contacts, Miller held absolutely ZERO (heh) value. There was nothing he could do that Zero couldn’t, and WAY less than Zero could. Plus, he had already proved to Big Boss that he was a liability when he tried to use Cypher for personal gain behind Big Boss’s back, never realizing that he was the one being used. He couldn’t be trusted. Let’s not forget that Zero never betrayed Big Boss. Not once. He never sold Big Boss out. They only had a falling out because of the Les Enfants Terribles project Zero was conducting without the consent or approval of Big Boss and because they each had opposing understanding of the Boss’s Will which would come later when Big Boss leaves FOXHOUND to create Zanzibar Land. There was no treachery whatsoever.
By the time Skull Face and XOF destroyed Mother Base affectively destroying everything MSF was, Big Boss was probably about to cut Miller loose anyway. He just happened to become comatose for 9 years before he could get the chance. Zero’s offer once Big Boss woke up just ended up happening because it was the first thing that came up. Not to mention Zero had everything ready to go. Except this time Zero learned from his previous mistake with Les Enfants Terribles and waited for Big Boss to wake up to get his approval before enacting the plan. They both knew that just like Skull Face, Miller wouldn’t just accept Big Boss cutting him loose. He’d have a… reaction, which is just confirmed by how he reacts to finding out the truth about Venom, so thus necessitating what they would end up doing to the Medic and creating Venom, so as to distract Kaz and by time to escape into the shadows without Kaz ever knowing and preventing him from being able to hunt down or revealing Big Boss and Zero’s reunion to Skull Face.
Kaz Miller was a treacherous Snake-in-the-grass (heheh) that had proven he was very well willing to sell out his “partners” and “friends” to the highest bidder, and the only reason he hadn’t sold Big Boss out to Skull Face wasn’t because he wanted revenge for XOF destroying MSF, and sure as fuck wasn’t because he was Big Boss’s friend and partner and believed such a betrayal to be unthinkable. Not even close, we’re led to believe that and assume it to be true not realizing and connecting the dots that 9 year had passed… why hadn’t Miller come for Big Boss? Why did Zero withhold Big Boss’s whereabouts from Miller during those 9 years? Why did Zero feel he had to? Well, perhaps it was be Miller was a shady fuck and would have sold Big Boss out to Skull Face exactly like he did in 1974 during the Peace Walker Incident. Plus you’re gonna have me believe that 9 whole years pass and Miller is so filled with a desire for revenge against XOF that he literally doesn’t nothing in those 9 years to deal any sort of blow to them? Or that Miller and his team of trained Information Analysts and in-turn being an Analyst himself, knew almost nothing about Skull Face and XOF. Just the bare minimum a whole 9 years later? Or just sat twiddling his thumbs for 9 years despite supposedly being so filled with a desire for revenge against Skull Face for destroying MSF and killing his “comrades”? Bullshit. Miller just wanted revenge for XOF taking his means of making money: MSF, and then taking his arm and leg too. Period. If that hadn’t happened and he knew where Big Boss was he would have sold him out in no-time-flat. Period.
Fuck Miller.
@@InTheMindOfDavid Damm, i coudn't agree more
@@InTheMindOfDavid
In other words, Miller loved only the war business. Not the man who brought him into it.
@@InTheMindOfDavid ..... Ok, heres what ima need you to do... Theres a moment in MGS 4 where Raiden, beaten rightly all to shit, i think LITERALLY armless and squaring off against at least 15 mercs, just kind of zones himself out for a bit, and then says "I am lightning... _The rain _*_transformed..._*_ " and suddenly ALL the mercs get a 200 kilo-volt express ticket to Odin because of................well, yeah, thats the thing ima need you to use _*__THIS_* level of energy to explain to me, cause ive been trying to find an answer and i got nothing, cause, not even his _Revengance_ frame lets him straight up Pikachu people
@@KamenRiderRaiden Nanomachines son
"Given the right situation, the right story, anyone can be shaped into Snake"
looks like Venom Snake were the original S3 plan all along
Dude this is a mind fuck, so ground zeroes while it did happen. What we played was merely a simulation for the medic which would perfectly explain why Kiefer Sutherland was selected as the voice of snake even in that.
Kojima doesn't just make movies into games, he makes cryptic puzzle boxes
He played us LIKE A DAMN FIDDLE!!!
Wow that makes more sense.
...And thats why MGS II and V are the true masterpieces in the entire franchise... One game shows us all our beloved lies, the other one let us live a lie... But both connects something Inportant to us players: Because you are act and look like a hero, tells not you are one... In both games you are not the hero, you are not a hero... You nothing more than cannonfutter in the entire system YOU brings forward...!
V is garbage and unfinished, these snippets of lore connectors are the best the game has to offer, and it doesn't have many
You’re just an Otaku too...
Wait until y'all realize that everything that was done to Venom as well as the double think Ocelot went through were precursor to the create of Ocelot's Liquid persona.
Ocelot is a type of leopard, which is in the genus of felines or cats. Ocelot pretended to solidify Liquid Snake's mindset onto his own. who's codename was "snake".
Hence forth "Cats do love to play as snakes."
Spoilers...
But... liquid hated big boss and his genes. Liquid ocelot on the other hand, smoked a cigar quoting fathers favourite following snake saying "so you're big boss now, huh? This would contradict liquids true intentions about his mortality over his family.
Venom is a regular soilder psychology moulded into the image, also thinking he's big boss. Even though his cqc and strategies are similarly different. The two characters are socially parallel with one another.
Two people can adopt the same technique and mindset, but it's context and information what moulds the average individual and a master. Belief is better than talent.
I always liked to imagine that if the plot of MGSV were to continue past what we saw, it would lead to a similar path of Raiden where Venom rejects the fiction he's adopted and sees Boss as the villain for putting him in this predicament. Then that would allign with Miller's statement during the post credits of turning the phantom against Boss, and eventually explain how Big Boss led solid snake to kill the phantom in Metal Gear 1.
Now that makes sense, question is. how did Solid Snake end up in Zanzibar land was it Zero that wanted the real Big Boss figured out?
@@rocknflip66 I'm confused by the last part of your comment, but I will try to answer anyways.
It's established in MGSV that Zero was already in a coma since the beginning of the TPP. One of the last tapes reveals that skullface had injected him with something and that injured him enough to put him in a coma.
MGS4 and V make it clear throughout that Cipher, the organization, started to go on its own path once zero went into a coma, and BB was trying to build his own organization to counter its expansion. At the end of MGSV it's revealed that BB is just starting work in Zanzibar land at the same time as the phantom.
The reason BB was able to lead snake to the phantom in MG1 was because he was head of Foxhound in the 90s, probably undercover to spy on Cipher. Presumably his cover was blown right after (To the world he died when the phantom did), and he quietly fled to Zanzibar since he had no where else to be. By the time of MG2, Cipher sent Snake to deal with the real BB since he had always been on a warpath with them.
This is all just guesswork on my part, but it could still work out. I'm sure an actual writer could make more sense out of this hypothetical.
Nah, Big Boss and Venom are working together in MG1
Its bizarre for how quickly Kojima ended up killing Venom snake off by naming him big boss in MGS 1 that his impact lasts so long throughout the games apparently. Especially for a man who no one was able give a name to even if he was a prequel characters that's interesting.
Until you stop and remember that Solid Snake in the beginning was meant to be you the player! In Kojima's own words! So it's more a case of You (Venom) teaching yourself how to think for yourself thus saving You!
It all comes full circle!
I like the parallels Venom has with V from V for Vendetta (comic book). He dies with you as Snake trying to figure out who he was in the end!
@@IoiniEverson Metal Gear 1 From MSX
do you think it’s a coincidence the Colonel has a Skull-face? 6:22
No but it does explain what happened to the metal Gear that was in mgs5
I realy think mgs V tried to be second mgs 2
Just a great way to connect story and gameplay.
"The context"
THE MEMES JACK
Jesus... it was mind blowing. The only thing that can tops it (so far) would be the confirmation this was Kojima's deliberate doing all along. And thank you for this material! 🙂
but was...
true but most of the time it probably Kojima going back to see what he can fit in when new ideas comes up
so he predicted mgs5 before it even exists
i assume that he made mgs 3 waaaay before every mg/s ever released just so that he can expand the lore with new games in between
Wow! I am blown away. One thing I want to learn in detail the aftermath of Outer Heaven and Big Boss' copy. Please do it for your next vid. Thank you
Venom snake died on outer heaven but there are still a lot of unanswered questions. Why did he break the mirror at the end of the phantom pain? Did he find "the truth hidden in the lies"? And if so why did he agree to die for big boss? Clearly we didn't get the "missing link to complete the saga" that was promised.
I also still think that Big Boss found another copy that Solid Snake ended up killing in Zanzibar Land.
It’s the reason why he never acknowledged Solid as his son the whole time.
The second supposed Big Boss double of course didn’t know the secret history behind Solid Snake and “The Real Big Boss”.
I could be wrong though, but I still believe that there were 2 or probably more Big Boss Body Doubles, with of course Venom Snake being one of them, and he became the Commander of Outer Heaven Base.
I dont know why people dont say this, but i am still confused the fact that no one noticed that big shell looks just like the motherbase from peace walker and tpp.
Wait a second... Kojima predicted MGSV??? That's nuts!
Also, in this video: An AI bullies child soldier for 8 minutes straight
Wouldn't say he predicted it so much as he used Raiden's journey and the story surrounding that and put new context around it.
@@Usernamesdontmatter1 r/woooosh. In other words, it was just a dumb joke
so... kojima played us LIKE A DAMN FIDDLE?!?!?!?!?!
We're all just clones of the One true Big Boss.
His memories and actions continue to haunt us forever as we awaken with an identity that people either highly respect or want our heads for.
Mercenaries are never truly Good or Evil. Let that sink in.
It’s because the original game had a part where you thought you killed the big boss, but it was really just venom snake.
MgsV was all to cover a plot hole from like 20 years before.
it wasnt really a plot HOLE cause its not exactly unreasonable or inconsistent for big boss to have a body double take his place during a lethal encounter
but yeah more or less
@@CaptainPrincess There's a lot of retro canon, stating that Big Boss was recovered from Outer Heaven and fitted with cybernetic parts. Snake's Revenge (non-canon) and MG2SS went into this detail.
Can you explain me why venom really built a Metal gear in MG1? Because the story of MGSV does portray him as a anti-nuclear type of guy and I think his act of building a metal gear lead to his story end (Forgive me if it's a dumb question because I'm not that sound in the lore of very early games in the series) because I was just curious what could change such characters beliefs and well ultimately the whole implications of OPERATION INTRUDE. I was wondering why was Venom send a cassette tape about the operation which was to take place? Because wouldn't take make him much more prepared for the fight? Or was this tape actually the last order by Big Boss for Venom to follow. (I think I read that Big Boss didn't actually expected Solid Snake to succeed and some False information stuff) But I'm just curious about this substantial change of nature of venom and if there were any hints given in why venom would take such a step.
And lastly another question, what happened to Miller and ocelot during operation intrude? They are virtually absent in metal gear 1 story. Did they just abandoned venom to his fate?
tbh I think venom was only anti-nuke in V cause miller was, and I think even after learning how he was brainwashed he was still open to suggestion
cause I think the whole time in V venom has been open to suggestion, as part of his big boss brainwashing, letting miller and ocelot guide him into building the legend
cause youll notice, I dont think venom has more than one or two original thoughts of his own in all of phantom pains, mostly he just goes along with what miller and ocelot tell him to do, and I dont think that was an INTENTIONAL part of his brainwashing but I think the process left him open like that, and I think it lingered well past his learning who he really is
which means I think he built the metal gear because he was guided into doing so, despite being anti-nuke
Are you telling me Raiden was Venom Snake 2.0?
Raiden isn't evil
@@hedgehog1684and Venom is? Venom is the Big Boss that should’ve been, and Big Boss turned into Zero but with opposite ideals (Zero - Order / Big Boss - Chaos)
@@Luca_Talis i want to see kiefer vs david hayter in a new metal gear game venom vs solid snake
Practically, minus the plastic surgery and hypnotherapy. He is to Solid what Venom was to Boss. Only Jack chose to be his own man in the end, while Venom was content with the cards Boss delt him.
Hideo is a fucking genius. That's all.
Definitely agreed! 💯👍
- P&S
I don't think that they are referring to Venom Snake specifically but the meaning of the whole program the patriots made from scratch to turn any person into big boss, regulating the intensity of the program in favor of what kind of soldier they needed.
man this is creepy and i love it !
Damn this game makes me so emotional. MGS was here for me at the loneliest time in my life. I never even picked up an mgs game until after I graduated high school and I'm glad I did then so I could fully understand it. I'm glad I'm finding more and more things about it that I never would have figured out without this channel. Thank you for your work. You don't know how much your effort means to me and many others I'm sure. "You're pretty good." Much love ✌️
Guys i apologize for keeping this as a secret from all of you. But i think that the time has come to tell. I'm Venom Snake.
Given the right situation, anyone can be shaped into Snake...
It feels weird that the original Big Boss was Honed Naked Snake to take the mantel of "Big Boss" from her, then decades later Big Boss (Naked Snake) would be physically replaced by a body double and meant continue The Big Boss' legacy, and then his twin clones were both brought up to be pitted against each other in order to determine which Clone would become Big Boss, and finally Raiden (at least in my opinion) was brought up to become the Newest version of Big Boss by reliving Solid Snakes VR Tanker Mission numerous times! Its like the world of Metal Gear NEEDS someone to be Big Boss rather it be a direct descendant of the man or a random person who has been virtually trained to become Big Boss!
Which will reign supreme, Nurture (a child manipulated to become something) or Nature (a child who becomes something under their own volition through their own experiences)... Do the Genetics matter or does the Machine truly make the man?
Very well said sir
I remember playing MGS2 and thought "wth are they talking about, this scene is weird. Now I'm older and I fully understand the weight of what they were discussing.
I was in high school when MGS2 came out, so I grasped the content pretty well, but even then you still do notice more nuance with every subsequent playthrough, and the way social media is now makes the content feel a little more on-the-nose every year
" You lack the qualifications for free will"
Such a great insult. Similar to the NPC meme
Even better then the npc meme, because it’s basically an npc that said it
@@deadmeme902 The NPC meme makes people angry because the NPC reflects back to the viewer who they are. Just people not thinking , running off scripts and shouting platitudes. Essentially zombies. The people who do get angry at that meme are angry because that's who they are. A non thinking person who just repeats stuff other told them to say
This insult is the verbal version of that.
@@robertpatter5509 I get your point but on some level wouldn't that make everyone an npc? the vast majority of people think the same things, not like everyone is a special little dude with original thoughts on specific stuff. even saying the npc meme itself means you got it from someone else and now you repeat it in response to certain things. group think is inherent to some things, especially politics, and to me, calling someone an npc would be inherently hypocritical and typically indicates the person saying it has zero self awareness, either that or they're some level of narcissist and believe themselves to have special thoughts. that's why the way I use the meme tends to just be if someone responds to something with scripted one after the other expected responses, not really about what they think, but if what they replied with was highly expected, like a specific insult.
I try not to think about it too deep, it's self contradictory. I like this meme better cause it isn't really contradictory at all, it's just saying the person you send it too doesn't deserve free will.
@@deadmeme902 You describe exactly what makes the NPC meme ridiculous and how the advent of the NPC meme is pure irony.
And people have the audacity to call MGS2 a bad game
I mean, is it that shocking if MGS2 is in the future, and revisiting this story point was probably always in the cards.
Then years later, Raiden will be fighting against the memes.
Looking through at the comments and comparing Venom Snake to Raiden about their choices after their own "S3 plan", it made me think the irony that is Big Boss. He didn't like what Zero did when the Les Enfants Terrible project came about, but was perfectly fine with a test version of the S3 plan by Zero himself
Give props to this guy for going through all the long as hell cutscenes to give us this masterfully made presentation.
AI: Are your ideas your own?
Me: I could ask you the same since you’re a man-made construct.
AI: *ERROR 404*
You could even accuse AI for just copying ideas from Snake Eater and Shadow Moses. They could not think out of the box and rely on tired old tricks on any problem.
I thought about this for a while. It doesn't matter if GZ was "VR" or not, Venom is V's Raiden either way (playing the record's B-side after the A-side everyone wanted)
2:35 Listening the infamous Colonel/Rose A.I.'s speech to Raiden from Metal Gear Solid 2 being "overlapped" on Punished "Venom" Snake's arc in the "Metal Gear Solid V Experience" may also cause some major "Déjà-vu" about most of my social media activities with the "audience" since March 12th 2017 in particular "for a S-Special reason."
Never thought that "he experienced all your missions" applies to bloody Ground Zeroes, as i have heard that one line in game where Miller said that he can't believe he bought Paz's backstory, but he is the last person to state such a thing as he was the one who used Paz to develop MSF knowing she was a spy. I think we need an analysis on every voice line in GZ that just doesn't fit in good, as the whole GZ game seem to be a grand conspiracy.
Suddenly the weird quirky "a pseudo-historical recreation" starts to take on a new meaning when you realize the GZ side ops did not actually happen as Big Boss.
MGS Delta: another Pseudo Historical Recreation
@@Solid-Old Hrrrm... played us like a damn fiddle, huh?
Fucking amazing
Kojima is the guy with the board full of conspiracies and red lines connecting them all
This has to be intentional
One question....
We already know what happened in MGS1 and was real...
But after Peace Walker... what really happened after that or what Big Boss done so when we are in some kind of simulation... what we did in Ground Zero was real? Part of me say no if you open your eyes...is what happened to Mother Base in GZ was real ?
What I'm trying to say is like want to know what happened before MGS1 through MGS2 without playing it or experience it
It's nice he built Venom Snake from dialogue from previous MGS's instead of planning him before hand. Then again he never planned on making more sequels.
🤯 it makes so much sense now
Well that's a common theme between all the MGS games. The hole idea of recreating Snake with someone else has been a theme since the beginning.
MGS 2 was incredibly prophetic.
No, it really wasn't.
Metal Gear solid 2 is the Neon Genesis Evangelion of Video Games, its all action up front, then back halved with existential Dread, philosophical meaning, and a cop out ending due to behind the scenes shenanigans XD
I still think death stranding takes place inside the broken ai as you piece back together it's system after the virus.
I always maintain MGSV is the evil version of MGS2's story.
In MGS2 Solid Snake gives Raiden words of wisdom and encourages him to find himself, his own life and his own future, to great effect even, if you follow Raiden's story arc from 2, 4 an Revengeance, he eventually asserts himself both as his own person, and as a hero.
In MGSV Big Boss instead enables and encourages Venom to embrace the lie that he is Big Boss, to disregard his past, his name, his true face, whoever the Medic was got effectively erased, and as a result he disappears into obscurity, rejecting the truth and meeting his untimely end at the hands of Solid Snake.
Solid Snake basically represents what could have Naked Snake/Big Boss could be if he decided to not misinterpret The Joy's will. That's why Big Boss stopped Solid from killing himself. Solid represented what Naked Snake could not be anymore.
Solid encouraged Raiden to be his own man, because Solid believes he's not a "legend" that people believe him to be, teaching Raiden to embrace his own individuality and not try to be the "next Solid Snake". He started "Philanthropy" with Otacon, but still pretty much went incognito about it, without relying on his status. Philanthropy has no "loyal" soldiers, only Snake and Otacon stopping whole nations from building Metal Gears.
But Naked Snake/Big Boss took advantage of his status and manipulated someone else using his "legend" to play a fabricated version of him, because he knows the Medic would have done it without question due to his extreme loyalty to Big Boss and the idea of being the "legend". Big Boss created Outer Heaven and even Diamon Dogs, building on his "legend" and thus creating loyal soldier that will be willing to even to have themselves be choked to death by Big Boss just for training.
You never disappoint
I’m thoroughly convinced that you are Kojima’s apprentice. Excellent work!
"Genes don't contain any record of human history"-
Assassin's Creed:"I'm right here you know?"
Kojima saw what was coming.
Memetic comparisons is all that MGS4 is about.
now i want a freakin epic remake of the first metal gear games.
This was what I always hoped before when Kojima was still in the company. A remake of the first two games. It would be a logical step after 5. Could have even used the same Fox Engine.
So wait if ground zero was a fake or not really a mission how did venoms wounds happen im probably just heavily confused on some things
That's what I love about the Metal Gear games' stories. With the exception of a few plot holes, their over the top complex but the pieces fit together. From Metal Gear all the way to the Phantom Pain. Kind of sucks they're making a reboot as opposed to adding to the existing story. But I also kind of get it. I just hope it doesn't take 4 years to get it. Announce a game within a year of its release or otherwise keep it quiet. Can't stand being hyped up for a game just to be told it'll be released in Q3 a decade from now. Lol
Venom. THE BEST Snake. He wasn't idealistic, political or self righteous. He simply did his duty and kept to himself stoically
Love the video brother!
Many thanks for the support my friend! 🐍
- P&S
This message becomes even more stifling when you realize that society in real life is constructed in a way to make us docile. "A single person has the potential to ruin the planet."
I really liked this game until it went all mind fucky. Tho I am impressed with the detail of explaining what the AI told you without saying that was what they were doing. As strange and hyper sexual as these games get some times they are genius with detail even if you don't realize that until after phantom pain.
Could all of this be alluding to that we really didn't play MGS1 as snake but as Raiden in a VR course? And the same with MGS3 and Peace Walker as Ahab (Venom Snake). Meaning in reality we've been playing in simulations, and maybe even to go super meta, we're playing simulations for someone else in MGS2 and MGSV
It makes all the lines where characters explain controls and menus in the games more than just noncanon tutorial stuff, and actually in universe explanations for vr controls
I can only "like" your videos once...
I remember when I was young, I thought this stuff was legit how things could be. After getting to know the real military and black ops, the people writing this have way too much faith in super soldiers.
In the real world, we use teams and Intel comm offices filled with agents. They accomplish way more than any one person ever could. And the military would never focus so much on a single super soldier. They have legions of these people. They'll throw 15 of them at you and overwhelm you. They'll buy off some 3rd world mercs as a distraction to your forces and scud your HQ on the backend.
Th real world is so much more sinister and impressive than super soldiers and machines. Deception and unethical secret ops is how things get done.
They pretend to be against torture. The same people up on stage claiming to be against torture are laughing inside because they know 5 or 6 people are screaming right that moment. Torture is our bread and butter.
Bro it's a video game. Nobody needs someone to tell them this isn't real we know damn well it isn't. It's just good entertainment
Listen to any radio conversation in any Metal Gear, and also pay close attention to some cutscenes.
The writing goes out of it's way to say multiple people had to arrange for your protagonist to get where they are and a single person can't go as far as the Metal Gear protagonists do.
In every game there is a team of experts helping your protagonist, both by radio providing you with intel, and in the field by poking holes in enemy patrols and providing you with the tools you need to make it to your goal.
Peace Walker and MGSV are the most blatant, you actually have multiple specialized units taking care of not only running motherbase, but also providing your with all the intel and supplies you need.
EVA herself says it best in MGS3, "there's no way you could have gotten this far by yourself".
@@Roler42 Also the entire S3 plan in MGS2.
As early as the second game in the series, it becomes clear that the goal of Les Enfants Terribles wasn't to create one or two super soldiers, it was to mass produce them.
David, Jack, and John, every one of their successes was intricately crafted by someone, be it Naomi and Ocelot in MGS or GW and Ocelot in MGS2, or The Boss and Ocelot in MGS3, or EE and Ocelot in MG4.
As complex as the Metal Gear story is, I gotta say the way they deliver this type of stuff is really good. And really intense even
I don't even think it's that complicated. It's all about giving Context to all of the content :b Just think about MGS2. Sure, if you play it the first time, usually it will confuse the hell out of you. But if you think about it a bit longer after playing, it clears up to you that 3/4 or the entire story that was told to Raiden until the end of the game, was made of lies and cover up stories. Take those away and concentrate of the 10-15 minutes of revealed truth and it will be much more clear. Kinda the same with the other games, too. There are always big twists that reveal the truth to a certain degree. You just have to focus on them.
That's why I love this series so much. You never really stop to think about the games, even years after playing them.
This series is the BIGGEST MIND F**K!!! 🧠🤯
Well than. I guess... You're pretty good!
Your only making these connections now?? I thought it was known through all mgs that the patriots repeat the same patterns, exactly how big boss described before his death. An ai's attempt at creating zeros image, with each iteration becoming more twisted and muddled.
We've been talking about this subject since 2013 😉 It's what led us to correctly predict Venom Snake was a brainwashed body double of Big Boss much prior release. This particular topic (Colonel AI) needed a video for itself.
- P&S
@@PythonSelkan yes those were good times, i fell in love with the grey fox storyline, and still to this day believe there could be a way for it to still be true. However im afraid you was not the original creators of the body double theory. Thousands of fans included myself had already theorised this because we was told big boss had only had 1 coma in the 70s (les enfant terriblè) and we see him in the 80s in a coma. I personally theorised it may have been solidus. Those were fun times though eh? You guys made the hype train a damn rave it was awesome.
Reaching but damn good point. Fits the narrative
But still great analysis.
it could explain the voice difference also that makes ground Zeroes almost like a simulation of what happened it would explain Kaz's comment about Paz and how could they have believed her. Holy Sheeet
It's not that shocking when you think about it. MGSV is literally MGS2's story but instead of Solid Snake, it's Big Boss being the legendary soldier.
TBH I think that MGS2 is the superior telling of the story, the story of people trying to create a new hero, with the experiences of the previous.
If you want a MGS5 theory, I do have one about the unnamed medic's identity before becoming Venom Snake...
I am fairly certain his codename was Morpho, who was also the main pilot of the supporting helicopter in Ground Zeroes.
They couldn't just take a random soldier and make him into a copy of Big Boss, I'm fairly certain they mentioned him previously being one of the best soldiers of MSF, which is a good reason to bring him along as backup.
To hide the medic during certain panning shots of the interior of the helicopter during Ground Zeroes, he couldn't be in the room, and the only place he could have realistically gone is the cockpit... He does have a co-pilot who could take over while he would be in the back to check over Paz and remove the bomb from the stomach so he could reasonably have been a pilot and a combat medic.
Then there are the scenes with Paz, he's getting those hallucinations about her being alive out of the idea of failing to save her. and the picture that makes him remember the truth about what happened on that helicopter and wake from the dream, is a picture of a Morpho butterfly.
Additionally, blue butterflies (which the Morpho definitely is), often symbolize Healing, Life and Death... Which could tie his codename back to his identity as a combat medic.
It's only just tumbled to me that the line in GZ by Kaz is actually a discrepancy unintended for Venom's memories. Wow.
"Genes don't contain any record of human history"
Abstergo: Challenge accepted
The sea of garbage= Google.
Wow this was such a mind fuck but something so cool to think about
Great video
Kojima tried to make MGSV a second MGS2, but you can't trap lightning in a bottle twice. It's not a bad game but it's far from perfect. If the execution had been better, it could've become an absolute masterpiece.
Kojima made mgsv to be an opposite/deconstruction of mgs2
Sadly I think the open world part doesn't help with a game series that lives to 90% from it's story. I was always out of it after playing side missions for another 40h before continuing the main story. Last time I played, I focused on just the main story missions, and it helped a lot to stay focused. The rushed ending still is a bit annoying, but I still love the game. Just not sure if it would make it into my top 3, since I love the other titles so much. So on it's own it is a great game. It's just damn hard to compete against the other ones.
It literally got the same reaction, hate at release the after years became loved
@@Himmyjewett Yeah I love it too tbh, but it feels incomplete nontheless (regardless if that was planned or not. Btw MGS4 was hated at release too but for me it's one of the best haha
The MGS2 AI's were 100% right IMO, it is a shame they broke down.
no way, eventually the AI would've been like Skynet or the Matrix, enslaving/eliminating humanity for their good & the betterment of the world
The thing is, Strangelove's AI would have been different. They would've had morals and feeling to guide them, not just logic.
@@eltren6120 That is why I said it was a shame they broke down. They had the right idea with information control (I'm sorry, but nonsense from Qanon and other baseless conspiracy sites are holding humanity back, it has to go). When they created the war economy, it is as though they gave up on helping humanity advance.
Plus Venom (being Medic) idolized Big Boss. So him being Big Boss is a dream come true for him. He’d do anything for him
Yes 100% true also remember in Arsenal Gear GW colonel Campbell tells Raiden:
PYTHAN SELKAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN
You’re pretty good.
This also oddly fits 'Collective Consciousness' from Metal Gear Rising too
genes do actually contain a fragment of human history
not a lot but just enough
instinctual behaviours, recognition
every thought you have creates a phsyical change in the brain and the form of your brain at the time you pass on your genes will play a part in what hard-wired behaviours your offspring have
its just difficult to extrapolate a lot of detailed knowledge because this information isnt detailed, its just very simple concepts that can be triggered so often as to form long lasting marks that are deep enough to be replicated through incomplete half-replication, so not a LOT of information can be genetically recorded, but you can know that what IS recorded is very important, and directly connected to VERY many things people knew and experienced, the core nuggets of human history and culture, vaguely recorded and poorly preserved, but recorded and preserved nonetheless
Probably, one of the AI's is based on venom since they probably wanted them to be copies of the founders. Then they realized they got the body double, and scraped the idea.
This game is as complex as a real life scenario. Perhaps... It is.
It’s that deep, yea. But it’s going even deeper...
Until hes you.