About the whole elsa turning from a villian to a misunderstood character thing. wasn't the snow queen not really a villain in the book anyways? She was kinda just cold hearted
Yeah and everyone says Elsa isn’t a villain which is true she doesn’t have bad intentions BUT she’s responsible for the main conflict of whole movie so she kinda already has the villain/antagonist role all throughout the movie anyways? Hans was a twist villain and wasn’t driving any of the main conflict of the story. Elsa was
Yeah the Snow Queen wasn’t a villain, in my opinion she just saved Kai from becoming something worse. The real villain was a demon/goblin. I hate it when they try to make her the villain where she cursed Kai.
I do wish Frozen kept more elements from the actual Snow Queen story. I get that it is a difficult to adapt because of the religious message and multiple characters/scenarios Gerda encounters. But I feel like Disney kept the same spirit in their Little Mermaid adaptation even though the ending was drastically changed. I really like the mini documentary that Disney put on the first Little Mermaid dvd about Hans Christian Andersen and the origins of the story. I think Elsa should have remained an anti-hero instead of shoving in Hans as the villain.
I actually like Frozen and Frozen 2 just the way they are, but as for a True "Snow Queen" movie, animated or not, I'd prefer it did not come from Disney because we already HAVE a Disney-ified version, leave it to a non-Disney animation studio or Hollywood director to make a close-to-source-material film adaptation of The Snow Queen!
I remember reading somewhere that Hans was (Very, Very loosely) based off of the Evil Mirror in that he reflected the worst parts of whatever character he interacted with.
@@ScribblestoScreen TThe reason why Elsa's ice powers are not explained is because the writers thought it be too overcomplicated for the kids to understand.
The 1957 Snow Queen or as Sheznaya Koroleva in Russian in my opinion has to be the BEST animated adaptation of Hans Christian Andersen's fairytale classic and it's from my childhood when i saw the english dub the animation is so GORGEOUS and has a kinda Walt Disney feel to it so SCREW OFF FROZEN lol!
both frozen movies came out at points in my life when i really needed them and i fell in love with the first movie about five minutes into it, even almost nine years later it's still one of the most important things in my life and has helped me through so much, i'm so grateful it was able to overcome all the production hell and restarts to make it into the world
@22:31 Actually, the "depleting success" of Treasure Planet was entirely devised. Disney had wanted to get rid of 2D animation for a long time by this time. Look up Disney and Treasure Planet docus on YT, there's a few good ones going through the entire history of it. They set up Treasure Planet to fail despite being a really good movie, barely advertised it, and released it at the same time as several other very widely advertised movies so they could have an excuse. "Treasure Planet failed so clearly 2D animation doesn't work anymore."
This is a wonderful time filler while I charge up tonight. Seeing some of the animation for the Russian adaptation, I'm really longing to be able to watch it! As a subscriber to Jon Solo, through his Messed Up Origins series, I've learned a lot about the life of Hans Christian Anderson, and I found this to be a wonderful accompaniment to his covering of the Snow Queen, with loads of insights that he didn't focus on, or share with us. I have to say, I'm grateful that the original film was able to inspire Miyazaki. It's always mind-boggling to realize the lengths that inspiration goes- if not for the Snow Queen, we wouldn't have Studio Ghibli. Without Mr. Anderson, we wouldn't have the Snow Queen. And without the things that inspired Mr. Anderson, we wouldn't have his magical tales completely reworking the fairy tale format. Who knows how far back it goes? My middle school science teacher used to frequently remind us not to be upset that we hadn't created something entirely unique, by telling us that, "We're all standing on the shoulders of giants." Again with a fantastic presentation, filled to the brim with brand new information and trivia I was well unaware of! I really hope your Patreon is working out well for you, too!
Nice! I was obsessed with frozen when it came out and still somewhat obsessed. Cool to know the history of it. Also never seen the leaked footage of them running away from marshmallow before until now
In my big brain of thinking, I bet before the actual movie came out, and I say this for almost every movie, they had been planning the characters, and the personalities, and the looks, for a very long time. So I am interested to see where this goes.
I would love to see the leaked footage draft, it looks like it was far enough along to be a complete version of the movie, where anna is more girly like rapunzel and elsa takes on a more villainess role, with writing like rapunzel it just might have been a better version even
I personally feel they should have made Anna and Kristoff's chemistry more like Humphrey Bogart and Katherine Hepburn's characters in The African Queen (squabbling but in an often hilarious way, her changing views about life across the journey, and him being rather rough edged and making odd comments). "I never dreamed this could be so stimulating!"
I was thinking of writing a letter to them about taking inspiration from the original story they had planned and some elememts of the Once Upon A Time storyline to make a new film in the franchise. Maybe that draft could help as well.
This is awesome thank you for all the work that clearly went into this! As a Frozen lover (cringe I know) and Disney animation lover in general this is super interesting
Very insightful! No wonder I could see the plot holes and how Hans seemed like the last minute villain because of all the rewrites. Also Winnie the Pooh was going to fail regardless it was hand drawn or not - what idiot would release their movie the same weekend as the final Harry Potter movie?!?? Frozen would have been beautiful hand drawn.
I remember that I watch the soviet animated adaptation of the snow queen with English dub on it And the movie was currently available on youtube if i remember correctly
Wow this was a fantastically researched project!! Thank you so much for releasing it! 😃 I love Frozen (Disney fanatic here) but often wonder what it would have been like if Elsa had been a villain: would it have been as good? As a big sister, I love the sisterly bond between Anna and Elsa. And since it came out, I now have a little girl of my own who loves the franchise too. But man, those 2D animated clips look beautiful… Also wanted to thank you for bringing the Russian Snow Queen film to my attention, as I’ve never heard of it before, but the animation looks stunning. I am definitely going to be looking it up! I don’t know what the future holds for Disney, and I’m sure they will have times when they stagnate a bit. But I’m sure they’ll keep bringing us great films. Encanto is a revelation. I just really hope they go back to doing 2D animation someday. It’s my favourite type and it never ages, unlike CGI. Sorry for the long comment 🤣 Great video!!
The 2005-ish BBC Snow Queen is also fascinating. I saw it on PBS as a kid, and wow, did it make an impression on me! I actually found Frozen a letdown because of the story potential it didn't realize.
Yeah. Like John Silver in the underrated (and vastly superior) masterpiece, Treasure Planet. A complex, sympathetic, and morally gray antagonist with a redemption arc. That would've been the case had Treasure Planet never bombed in theaters and that would've definitely made Disney's animated musical adaptation of The Snow Queen so much better than what it ultimately became instead.
To be fair she drives the entire main conflict of the first movie. So she fits the sort of “antagonist” role in that way. I know she lacks bad intentions tho. And Hans is a twist villain who drives 0 of the conflict until the very very very end so it’s not like he’s the antagonist throughout the majority of the film
@@1992disney Treasure Planet was suppose to come out after Aladdin, but Disney thought that Treasure Planet was a terrible idea. The deal was if there directors can make a film that is a marketable as Aladdin then they can make Treasure Planet. That film was Hercules. However Disney wasn't doing well in the 2000's because Micheal Eisner was making some bad decisions.
I hear you man, it p!ssed me off when the Blu-Ray I got of Frozen BARELY had any bonus features on the making of the film. Not even a Audio Commentary on the making of it. Just some stupid little musical number that just trolled us into thinking it was an intro to it, but then they just said, "We don't know" and it ends, like "SERIOUSLY!?"
Disney is the absolute worst for special features. I got the Fantasia boxset last year, thinking that there's going to be all kinds of concept art and behind the scenes, and there was some, but I feel really ripped off.
@@CinnamonGrrlErin1 They seem to go all out for their films that have been released under the Platinum Edition, Diamond Edition, and Disney Signature Edition banners since they're the ones that sold the most in VHS form, but for others, some get a good number of features, but not as much as the ones mentioned above XP
@@CinnamonGrrlErin1 The good news is that there's a RUclipsr named Ani-mat who made a video involving the behind the scenes of all the Disney films, including Fantasia. ruclips.net/video/gvgdHj8uYho/видео.html
Wonderful video! I'm not all the way through it yet, but I just had to comment on the Snow Queen. I saw that as a child and later found out it was made in Russia. This was during the Cold War, but even as a kid, I knew not everything from Russia was necessarily bad. I'll have to dig it up some time...
I actually love the idea of an anti-hero Snow Queen slowly becoming a good person through a romance, it's a simple story but there's a lot of room for comedy and heart warming scenes in such a concept. It's a shame that version never surfaced, the character design looked excellent too.
@@maxcanonstunner6532 where the Camera moves to Elsa Quickly on The Left. Then She Just Dose her ice Powers. it just zooms out to the castle, then the movie ends..
To be honest. I want Elsa to be a villain. I mean. From what gathering and of course the information we have from the deleted scene. It was almost made in the final film. So can some tell me that I’m not the only one? Ok. Just me.
Not at all. There are many, many others including myself who think that Elsa should've been the villain instead of a "misunderstood heroine" too. That was such a huge wasted opportunity.
@@knifeandfork821 She would have been a more exciting villain than just setting up a twist villain that only works on first viewing/if no one spoiled it.
This is why I love Frozen, is a whole story of superation and trying to do a movie, is more than a decade of Walt Disney History to at the end make an unforgettable 3d animation piece, so for a Walt Disney Animation fan this story showcase the whole evolution of animation, I also wanted to see the 2d classic animation version, or a more Snow Queen adaption, with this book they can still make a whole big universe of different films with differents type of animation Great Video
I love Russian fairy tale movies (live action or animated), they're so beautiful. I think my favorite adaptation of the SQ though is the Fairie Tale Theater version.
Also, can you talk about the original Tangled, when it was call Rapunzel, I don't know if it's Lost Media but I heard there was another version of the movie
The version where a pizza boy and a tomboy get transformed into the prince and princess of the story and it’s a little like Enchanted with being a twist and subversion sounded so cool.
Your work is amazing! I just did a review of Paul McCartney’s film Give My Regards to Broad Street and would love to hear what you think of it :) Not sure if that kind of music is up your alley or not. Lol
If you were to fully dissect and analyze Frozen it’s arguably not a very good film. A lack on consistency and confusing choices plague the film throughout. I do wish that we could get a more faithful Snow Queen adaptation.
There is something else however thar basically in a way ties the original story and Frozen together. That being how they both got represented in Once Upon A Time.
I was very excited for Frozen when I realized that it was inspired by my beloved Snow Queen. I loved the Russian version so I didn't feel I needed Disney to make that. I wanted to see what they would do. And it rocked. I sawr a video about the ride at some point and it's a shame that didn't happen just for how cool it looked. it brought up the collab attempt back in the day, but it didn't say that ultimately ended up being the Danny Kaye movie which I always thought was great. Guess in many ways, it pretty much all worked out as it should. Instead of one movie at one point in time, the world got 3 and a fantastic story of the Disney quote of “Get a good idea, and stay with it. Dog it, and work at it until it’s done, and done right.”
I'm late to the "elsa should've been a villian" discussion", but I halfway disagree. Every destructive decision Elsa makes is the result of emotional abuse and isolation. She didn't abandon her sister and the kingdom out of selfishness or villianous reasons. She did it because of fear, the internalized fear that she would hurt people if they got too close to her. None of that is her fault, so it would be gross to ignore that so she can be the big bad instead of Hans. I'm sure she could be a better villian than Hans, but it wouldn't be worth sacrificing one the movie's best elements to try and save it's worst. That's why I'd rather see her be an antagonist. I know that seems like the same thing, but there's a crucial difference. Antagonists are defined by their contrasting views with the protagonist rather than how evil they are. So I think that would give us a "villian" that can grow and break out of their self destructive behavior without demonizing Elsa. Or Hans.(I know that means no commentary on spotting manipulative people, but outside of a few bits of foreshadowing, they rushed it so badly that they'd be better off scrapping it here so it can be properly explored in a different movie).
Except Elsa left Anna to die and went and sulked in her castle after setting snow monsters they could have killed the group on them. She also was just going to let everyone starve freeze to death so she could be free. and its frustrating because this could of been fixed with a few more scene delates. Rather then them keeping moments that worked with Elsa is a villain but were no longer nessacary now that she wasn't. Instead we have a selfish callus person who only cares about themselves being forgiven despite having done nothing to earn it. Elsa should of tried to save Anna she's the one who was wronged it being the other way around was not well thought out. If Elsa was worried about hurting others then wouldn't it make sense she'd fight like hell to undo that?
@@alorapendrak9752 Did you forget the part where she was chased out and deemed dangerous after her powers were exposed? And the part where she stays away from Anna out of fear of what her powers could do to her? Calling her selfish for not doing things that go against Elsa's trauma and character is just disapointing.
@@kiwikarp9509 Elsa nearly killed her own sister by setting a monster on her. I'm just saying the writers made her look selfish and callous and having Elsa do that and it contradicted what they tried to set up with Elsa leaving to protect other people. Do I find it in character for Elsa to lose control and ice Anna's heart yes but I find it out of character Elsa took the time to create a rampaging monster twice her sister's size considering she's supposed to be protective of her. One which tried to knock Anna off a cliff. It makes more sense that was a scene from previous drafts where Elsa was a villain. But with Elsa as not a villain that scene should of been cut. As well as Elsa not trying to do anything to undo what she accidentally caused. Like what if Elsa let Anna and Kristoff go back with blankets and supplies? She's not confident enough to undo the snowstorm but the writers could have done something little to show Elsa still cares despite her issues. I just don't think some of those plot theads were handled well.
I was also in the stage of transition from teen to young adult when I first saw the movie, and I definitely relate! I really loved the movie until it became a little _too_ popular...
So if the Snow Queen was adapted and released during the Disney Renaissance era, Frozen wouldn't have been released in 2013 and instead in the late 80s or 90s, but the story that we have in Frozen would have been what it originally was going to be about, which was the story of the snow Queen, and the title wouldnt have been Frozen but instead would have been the Snow Queen. So to put it simply, Frozen was at one point going to be part of the Disney Renaissance, but they canceled it and then later went back to it and released it in 2013
I actually watched The 1957 Snow Queen 2 times, its an interesting movie alright. Although Russia is known for copying American Media i.e Winnie Pooh, it doesn't stop all films from being original and great.
To correct your pronunciations: 11:38 its Soyuzmultfilm. Prounounced as written. Its just the conjugation of soyuz multi-film, union multi-film. 11:54 Not Leoen, Leonid Shvartsman. Again, read the letters, this isnt french, its slavic transliteration. Every letter makes the exact same sound regardless of the word. Queue would be read ku-e-u-e, not kyu. 12:04 You added an extra v in Vinokurov. Also the stress is on the back, not the front. 12:55 The Rs are pronounced hard.
So Kai and Gerda are Danish, the Snow Queen is Ahtohallan, the Sorceress is Eldoran, the Robber Girl is Northuldran, the Prince and Princess are Arendelle, the Lapp Woman is Lappish, and the Finn Woman is Finnish.
14:00 So that's how you pronounce my name? Interesting... Incorrect, but very interesting. I'm not offended in the slightest, don't get me wrong, it simply amuses me. You almost got it. The "ya" sound is the only incorrect one. It's pronounced simply as "a" but with "n" before it being softened like before the letter "y". In Russian it's spelled Женя, with ж correctly being zh, е being e, н being n, and я being pronounced ya only if it doesn't have a consonant before it, so with n before it the correct pronounciation is a with n before it being softened. Sorry if none of that made any sense. Just trying to clarify. I don't care about any words which aren't my name being mispronounced. Not that I really care about my name either, I just love hearing it in an English speaking video. Keep up the great work.
Interesting how Anderson being Friend Zoned eventually lead to a Movie about Sisterly Love with a sub plot being critical about the Love At First Sight Trope
Scribbles to Screen like what you said at the end of this documentary, that you're curious of what one of the original Snow Queen projects made by Disney producers were to been like. To tell you the truth when you work on the next video, please make a documentary video about the original Disney 2011 version of The Snow Queen, when it was later rename Frozen. But they were still working on the original version. Where Anna was the peasant, and that she wanted to meet the Snow Queen. So her broken heart would be Frozen and so forth by the Snow Queen. And of course that it was originally meant to be a hand-drawn 2D animated Disney movie. Please look into more depth and more everything of that original version, and talk about it as a new documentary video hopefully for the next video or upcoming video. Please try to do this idea for the next video, or an upcoming video ? Because I found out a little bit about it, and I'm just wondering and curious myself. That like the original Hans Christian Andersen version of The Snow Queen, instead of a boy being kidnapped and going to the Snow Queen. And a girl has to rescue him and so forth, I was thinking that the original Disney 2D version was about this girl who was a peasant and wanted to go to the Snow Queen. And I was thinking that some kind of teenage boy was going to rescue her. So that's what I know so far, and I could be correct on it. So because of that, please talk about more about the original 2D Disney version of The Snow Queen. That was written and planned back in 2011, please make sure to make a video documentary about that for the next video or upcoming video please ? Because I still want to know the answers to that version by Walt Disney animation studios
Thank you for your interest, Daniel! I'm afraid that's all the information we currently know about the 2011 movie, no doubt more information will come to light, but I wouldn't expect an update video any time soon
I wish the ride was a thing. It sounds pretty cool. I also wish Disney would go back to hand-drawn animation. Did you know that Tangled was originally supposed to be Walt Disney's first film? I thought all of the Winnie the Pooh movies were good. I love Pooh. He's the best! I STILL think Elsa should be the villains. I hate twist villains unless it's the Screenslaver even though he's scary. I love Do You Want to Build a Snowman? It's the best! I love Frozen, but I wish it was hand-drawn. It's always better. Sorry for the long comment.
I don't blame Disney for drastically changing the story. The original story was very long, kinda disjointed, and the Snow Queen herself is only in the beginning of the story. A very true, faithful adaptation of that story could only really work as a miniseries, probably something similar to Over the Garden Wall. Plus Disney told a pretty good story with Frozen. It was arguably one of the most iconic Animated movies of the 2010s.
Only if she's aged up from that concept art, or the Ice Queen is aged down, otherwise it would be a bit awkward to say the least. I don't think anything is stopping you from writing that story, or commissioning someone to write it if you can't.
Anderson didn't write fairy tales. He & the brothers Grimm collected stories passed around verbally for hundreds of years & added their own touches. It's no use....When I hear Tchaikovsky playing in the background, that's all my ears will listen to. I'd recognize Soyuzmultfilm's animation style anywhere. I share Miyazaki's preference for their work over Disney's. I prefer the Snegurochka-inspired concept art over the Elsa we ended up with.
honestly I feel so bad for HCA and people like him. I can’t imagine how much more confusing a blooming sense of identity was for him at that time. you can tell just from his works how misunderstood he truly was.
You know , for all the time that disney spent on frozen, you'd think Elsa would be a more interesting character. In frozen, Elsa is an incredibly boring character with no real personality- she just a maguffin for the other characters to chase after or react to .
Exactly. Yet the whole world including Disney themselves keep claiming her to be a "totally likable, sympathetic, relatable, and three-dimensional" character, when in reality, she's nothing but a totally unlikable, unsympathetic, unrelatable, one-dimensional, immoral, selfish, whiny, and helpless coward, who's not even in the movie that much despite being so heavily-advertised and having her stupid pretty face plastered everywhere. She does almost nothing throughout the entire movie. She never learns from her own mistakes nor does she ever develop and grow as a person. It's so baffling to see how anyone could find her to be such a great and memorable character. Anna's not much better either. In fact, it was Anna's own stupidity and lack of common sense along with her incapability of listening that caused the events of the movie to happen, which involves having Elsa being forced to isolate herself from everybody else, especially Anna, by being locked up in her own room for her whole childhood and never learning how to control her ice magic thanks to the incompetence and stupidity of their parents (which they would later die in the movie for no reason other than to create further conflict), having Elsa's powers be exposed in front of the entire kingdom after she gets into a heated argument with Anna over marrying Hans after only knowing him for a day, creating an eternal winter, running away from home to live in isolation, not doing anything to stop the storm from raging on forever and saving everyone from freezing to death, striking Anna in the heart when she tries to convince Elsa to return to Arendelle and reverse the curse, creating and sending a huge snow monster to chase Anna away from Elsa instead of realizing what Elsa had done to Anna and going after her to save her before it's too late, and being brought back to the kingdom by Hans using force after she was knocked out while trying to defend herself.
@@1992disney Yeah its even more annoying because the source material was about a kind, clever badass girl who went on a quest to try and get her kidnapped male childhood friend back. Who is so resilient she ends up going all the way to the ends of the earth without shoes. Even the Hallmark version with its questionable adaptation choices had Gerda shove a dagger into the Snow Queens' heart.
@@1992disney Maybe Disney had such a hard time adapting the Snow Queen, that Disney gave up and made something that barely has anything to due with the Snow Queen.
@@orangeslash1667 Well had Treasure Planet never bombed, that definitely would've given Disney the confidence they needed to stick with original draft for their version of The Snow Queen instead of completely changing it at the very last minute all because of one song.
So the Wind of Leafs is the Element of Air, the Fire Salamander is the Element of Fire, the Water Nokk is the Element of Water, the Earth Giants are the Elements of Earth, and Snow Queen Elsa is the Element of Spirit.
Man, Frozen could've been so much better had it stuck with a more darker route and kept Elsa as the villain, Disney missed such a golden opportunity when they took the film in a overly saccharine direction.
About the whole elsa turning from a villian to a misunderstood character thing. wasn't the snow queen not really a villain in the book anyways? She was kinda just cold hearted
Yeah and everyone says Elsa isn’t a villain which is true she doesn’t have bad intentions BUT she’s responsible for the main conflict of whole movie so she kinda already has the villain/antagonist role all throughout the movie anyways? Hans was a twist villain and wasn’t driving any of the main conflict of the story. Elsa was
@@expensivepink7 Anti-hero? idk
I do think you get to be considered a villain when you kidnap children but thats just me
lol COLD hearted
Yeah the Snow Queen wasn’t a villain, in my opinion she just saved Kai from becoming something worse. The real villain was a demon/goblin. I hate it when they try to make her the villain where she cursed Kai.
Considering how long this movie's production was, this will probably be the most interesting video yet.
I do wish Frozen kept more elements from the actual Snow Queen story. I get that it is a difficult to adapt because of the religious message and multiple characters/scenarios Gerda encounters. But I feel like Disney kept the same spirit in their Little Mermaid adaptation even though the ending was drastically changed. I really like the mini documentary that Disney put on the first Little Mermaid dvd about Hans Christian Andersen and the origins of the story. I think Elsa should have remained an anti-hero instead of shoving in Hans as the villain.
I always thought the interesting little side stories and characters were perfect elements for a Disney movie.
@@jenniferschillig3768 yeah and I mean Anna met Oaken, Kristoff and Sven, Olaf, and the trolls on her journey so it seems like it fits well.
I actually like Frozen and Frozen 2 just the way they are, but as for a True "Snow Queen" movie, animated or not, I'd prefer it did not come from Disney because we already HAVE a Disney-ified version, leave it to a non-Disney animation studio or Hollywood director to make a close-to-source-material film adaptation of The Snow Queen!
I remember reading somewhere that Hans was (Very, Very loosely) based off of the Evil Mirror in that he reflected the worst parts of whatever character he interacted with.
I agree
It’s crazy how this gone from a classic story with such hard luck to one of the most iconic movies of the 2010s
Tulsi 2024! 🇺🇸
Infamous? More like iconic.
Infamous, more like Iconic.
Infamous? More like iconic.
@@s.l.r.9407 or Famous
You and blameitonjorgd are some of my favorite youtuber who cover lost media. Your production qualities are both great
Thank you, and the awesome view was like you make it possible 😉
I agree
@@ScribblestoScreen can you do Alakazam the great please?
@@ScribblestoScreen TThe reason why Elsa's ice powers are not explained is because the writers thought it be too overcomplicated for the kids to understand.
I love the 1957 version it is closer to the original story.
Same.
Okay boomer.
The 1957 Snow Queen or as Sheznaya Koroleva in Russian in my opinion has to be the BEST animated adaptation of Hans Christian Andersen's fairytale classic and it's from my childhood when i saw the english dub the animation is so GORGEOUS and has a kinda Walt Disney feel to it so SCREW OFF FROZEN lol!
I mean, that movie did inspire Hayao Miyazaki, afterall~
@@WxIxLxLxIxAxMxS yes I know I watched a documentary about him.
Frozen never tried to be an adaptation of the snow queen. Everyone involved consider it its own thing.
@@ClairGiovino exactly what I was saying.
both frozen movies came out at points in my life when i really needed them and i fell in love with the first movie about five minutes into it, even almost nine years later it's still one of the most important things in my life and has helped me through so much, i'm so grateful it was able to overcome all the production hell and restarts to make it into the world
That 2003 design in the thumbnail looks so cool. We were so robbed
the same facial structure, but more edgy and emits that 2000s charm
wow ok
This soviet movie was amazing
My impression is that Disney is now mostly a toy company. Projects are based on how marketable the toy series will be.
@22:31 Actually, the "depleting success" of Treasure Planet was entirely devised. Disney had wanted to get rid of 2D animation for a long time by this time. Look up Disney and Treasure Planet docus on YT, there's a few good ones going through the entire history of it. They set up Treasure Planet to fail despite being a really good movie, barely advertised it, and released it at the same time as several other very widely advertised movies so they could have an excuse. "Treasure Planet failed so clearly 2D animation doesn't work anymore."
This is a wonderful time filler while I charge up tonight. Seeing some of the animation for the Russian adaptation, I'm really longing to be able to watch it! As a subscriber to Jon Solo, through his Messed Up Origins series, I've learned a lot about the life of Hans Christian Anderson, and I found this to be a wonderful accompaniment to his covering of the Snow Queen, with loads of insights that he didn't focus on, or share with us.
I have to say, I'm grateful that the original film was able to inspire Miyazaki. It's always mind-boggling to realize the lengths that inspiration goes- if not for the Snow Queen, we wouldn't have Studio Ghibli. Without Mr. Anderson, we wouldn't have the Snow Queen. And without the things that inspired Mr. Anderson, we wouldn't have his magical tales completely reworking the fairy tale format. Who knows how far back it goes? My middle school science teacher used to frequently remind us not to be upset that we hadn't created something entirely unique, by telling us that, "We're all standing on the shoulders of giants."
Again with a fantastic presentation, filled to the brim with brand new information and trivia I was well unaware of! I really hope your Patreon is working out well for you, too!
The full movie the Russian 1957 Snow Queen I on RUclips go watch it.
Nice! I was obsessed with frozen when it came out and still somewhat obsessed. Cool to know the history of it. Also never seen the leaked footage of them running away from marshmallow before until now
In my big brain of thinking, I bet before the actual movie came out, and I say this for almost every movie, they had been planning the characters, and the personalities, and the looks, for a very long time. So I am interested to see where this goes.
Hi mordecai lol
@@GGYTTHEYT Hi was up
The fact that Elsa isn't a villain only because Let It Go is a bop, that's pretty neat.
dude this is an amazing vid and to consider how many projects of frozen i never heard of is crazy!
I would love to see the leaked footage draft, it looks like it was far enough along to be a complete version of the movie, where anna is more girly like rapunzel and elsa takes on a more villainess role, with writing like rapunzel it just might have been a better version even
I personally feel they should have made Anna and Kristoff's chemistry more like Humphrey Bogart and Katherine Hepburn's characters in The African Queen (squabbling but in an often hilarious way, her changing views about life across the journey, and him being rather rough edged and making odd comments). "I never dreamed this could be so stimulating!"
I was thinking of writing a letter to them about taking inspiration from the original story they had planned and some elememts of the Once Upon A Time storyline to make a new film in the franchise. Maybe that draft could help as well.
This is awesome thank you for all the work that clearly went into this! As a Frozen lover (cringe I know) and Disney animation lover in general this is super interesting
I honestly would love if Disney did release that first demo of let it go since it was that demo that changed the entire movie to what it is
me: im so bored
lost media this past week: say no more
Very insightful! No wonder I could see the plot holes and how Hans seemed like the last minute villain because of all the rewrites.
Also Winnie the Pooh was going to fail regardless it was hand drawn or not - what idiot would release their movie the same weekend as the final Harry Potter movie?!?? Frozen would have been beautiful hand drawn.
Five thou take it, you’ve earned it. This is a very underrated genre
i wish frozen had been 2d. the test animations we have of 2d frozen are so expressive and lovely.
I think Frozen 2 was actually better than first movie
I remember that I watch the soviet animated adaptation of the snow queen with English dub on it
And the movie was currently available on youtube if i remember correctly
Wow this was a fantastically researched project!! Thank you so much for releasing it! 😃 I love Frozen (Disney fanatic here) but often wonder what it would have been like if Elsa had been a villain: would it have been as good? As a big sister, I love the sisterly bond between Anna and Elsa. And since it came out, I now have a little girl of my own who loves the franchise too. But man, those 2D animated clips look beautiful…
Also wanted to thank you for bringing the Russian Snow Queen film to my attention, as I’ve never heard of it before, but the animation looks stunning. I am definitely going to be looking it up!
I don’t know what the future holds for Disney, and I’m sure they will have times when they stagnate a bit. But I’m sure they’ll keep bringing us great films. Encanto is a revelation. I just really hope they go back to doing 2D animation someday. It’s my favourite type and it never ages, unlike CGI.
Sorry for the long comment 🤣 Great video!!
The 2005-ish BBC Snow Queen is also fascinating. I saw it on PBS as a kid, and wow, did it make an impression on me! I actually found Frozen a letdown because of the story potential it didn't realize.
WHAT THE HELL??? 500 VIEWS??? 12 comments?? You are one underrated man!!
There is a bit on the subject in the season 4 bonus features for Once Upon A Time. There's even some old artwork I don't think you got in here.
Disney won’t release the documentary on the insane history of Emperor’s New Groove’s development, doubt theyd do that for Frozen
I wish elsa could've been at least an anti hero,i feel like it would've made her more interesting than just a hero character
Yeah. Like John Silver in the underrated (and vastly superior) masterpiece, Treasure Planet. A complex, sympathetic, and morally gray antagonist with a redemption arc. That would've been the case had Treasure Planet never bombed in theaters and that would've definitely made Disney's animated musical adaptation of The Snow Queen so much better than what it ultimately became instead.
To be fair she drives the entire main conflict of the first movie. So she fits the sort of “antagonist” role in that way. I know she lacks bad intentions tho. And Hans is a twist villain who drives 0 of the conflict until the very very very end so it’s not like he’s the antagonist throughout the majority of the film
@@1992disney Treasure Planet had very bad marketing.
@@orangeslash1667 That's right. And it came out on the same day as Frozen eleven years prior.
@@1992disney Treasure Planet was suppose to come out after Aladdin, but Disney thought that Treasure Planet was a terrible idea. The deal was if there directors can make a film that is a marketable as Aladdin then they can make Treasure Planet. That film was Hercules. However Disney wasn't doing well in the 2000's because Micheal Eisner was making some bad decisions.
I hear you man, it p!ssed me off when the Blu-Ray I got of Frozen BARELY had any bonus features on the making of the film. Not even a Audio Commentary on the making of it. Just some stupid little musical number that just trolled us into thinking it was an intro to it, but then they just said, "We don't know" and it ends, like "SERIOUSLY!?"
Disney is the absolute worst for special features. I got the Fantasia boxset last year, thinking that there's going to be all kinds of concept art and behind the scenes, and there was some, but I feel really ripped off.
@@CinnamonGrrlErin1 They seem to go all out for their films that have been released under the Platinum Edition, Diamond Edition, and Disney Signature Edition banners since they're the ones that sold the most in VHS form, but for others, some get a good number of features, but not as much as the ones mentioned above XP
@@CinnamonGrrlErin1 The good news is that there's a RUclipsr named Ani-mat who made a video involving the behind the scenes of all the Disney films, including Fantasia. ruclips.net/video/gvgdHj8uYho/видео.html
Oh how I wish we got the early versions of the Snow Queen and not Frozen. Also, Elsa looks sexy as a villain.
Wonderful video! I'm not all the way through it yet, but I just had to comment on the Snow Queen. I saw that as a child and later found out it was made in Russia. This was during the Cold War, but even as a kid, I knew not everything from Russia was necessarily bad. I'll have to dig it up some time...
I actually love the idea of an anti-hero Snow Queen slowly becoming a good person through a romance, it's a simple story but there's a lot of room for comedy and heart warming scenes in such a concept. It's a shame that version never surfaced, the character design looked excellent too.
is it just me, or dose anyone else remember seeing a alternate ending in the theater showings of frozen?
What's the ending?
@@maxcanonstunner6532 where the Camera moves to Elsa Quickly on The Left. Then She Just Dose her ice Powers. it just zooms out to the castle, then the movie ends..
@@reverseshin you have a link for that?
@@maxcanonstunner6532 No because its Lost media....
@@reverseshin oh okay.
Looking forward to seeing this premiere I'm excited
Yo I've been trying to find the 57 film for years but didnt have enough information on it to look it up. Thanks!
Really excited for this! I’m really liking your content.
The 2d version may have actually been likeable and not a cockroach that refuses to go away after outstaying its welcome.
To be honest.
I want Elsa to be a villain.
I mean. From what gathering and of course the information we have from the deleted scene. It was almost made in the final film.
So can some tell me that I’m not the only one?
Ok. Just me.
I wish that Disney would release a few specials on their unmade projects some sound amazing but went unrealized.
Not at all. There are many, many others including myself who think that Elsa should've been the villain instead of a "misunderstood heroine" too. That was such a huge wasted opportunity.
@@1992disney the concept was all most done.
Nah its not just you, Elsa would have worked way better as a villain . It would have made her character more interesting.
@@knifeandfork821 She would have been a more exciting villain than just setting up a twist villain that only works on first viewing/if no one spoiled it.
I love the design of the snow queen from 1957!
Same.
This is why I love Frozen, is a whole story of superation and trying to do a movie, is more than a decade of Walt Disney History to at the end make an unforgettable 3d animation piece, so for a Walt Disney Animation fan this story showcase the whole evolution of animation, I also wanted to see the 2d classic animation version, or a more Snow Queen adaption, with this book they can still make a whole big universe of different films with differents type of animation
Great Video
I love this movie.
Meh. The 1957 animation is far superior to Frozen, imho. I wish we'd got to see Disney's original intentions for it.
Making her a misunderstood person instead of a villain was what made it great I think
Actually, that made Frozen AWFUL.
Thats actually what made the movie bad. But i think Frozen 2 was better than first one so there is win there
I love Russian fairy tale movies (live action or animated), they're so beautiful. I think my favorite adaptation of the SQ though is the Fairie Tale Theater version.
1957-Movie is the only one, that deserves to refer to Andersen. I hate Frozen.
Also, can you talk about the original Tangled, when it was call Rapunzel, I don't know if it's Lost Media but I heard there was another version of the movie
The version where a pizza boy and a tomboy get transformed into the prince and princess of the story and it’s a little like Enchanted with being a twist and subversion sounded so cool.
@@Nightman221k Rapunzel Unbraided, it's something I've always wanted to see tbh
1954 Snow Queen reminds me of Jadis from Narnia
Your work is amazing! I just did a review of Paul McCartney’s film Give My Regards to Broad Street and would love to hear what you think of it :) Not sure if that kind of music is up your alley or not. Lol
Pretty damn good movie. Very under appreciated and I love the music in it
If you were to fully dissect and analyze Frozen it’s arguably not a very good film. A lack on consistency and confusing choices plague the film throughout. I do wish that we could get a more faithful Snow Queen adaptation.
There is something else however thar basically in a way ties the original story and Frozen together. That being how they both got represented in Once Upon A Time.
Tell your parents these videos are really good quality, and you are BOUND to make it eventually. Screenshot this if you need to :D
I was expecting you were going to play the title music from the film in the opening credits.
Hi Mr. Scribbles to Screen. Just want to say I love your videos and you have very lovely smile x
I was very excited for Frozen when I realized that it was inspired by my beloved Snow Queen. I loved the Russian version so I didn't feel I needed Disney to make that. I wanted to see what they would do. And it rocked. I sawr a video about the ride at some point and it's a shame that didn't happen just for how cool it looked. it brought up the collab attempt back in the day, but it didn't say that ultimately ended up being the Danny Kaye movie which I always thought was great. Guess in many ways, it pretty much all worked out as it should. Instead of one movie at one point in time, the world got 3 and a fantastic story of the Disney quote of “Get a good idea, and stay with it. Dog it, and work at it until it’s done, and done right.”
I'm late to the "elsa should've been a villian" discussion", but I halfway disagree. Every destructive decision Elsa makes is the result of emotional abuse and isolation. She didn't abandon her sister and the kingdom out of selfishness or villianous reasons. She did it because of fear, the internalized fear that she would hurt people if they got too close to her. None of that is her fault, so it would be gross to ignore that so she can be the big bad instead of Hans. I'm sure she could be a better villian than Hans, but it wouldn't be worth sacrificing one the movie's best elements to try and save it's worst.
That's why I'd rather see her be an antagonist. I know that seems like the same thing, but there's a crucial difference. Antagonists are defined by their contrasting views with the protagonist rather than how evil they are. So I think that would give us a "villian" that can grow and break out of their self destructive behavior without demonizing Elsa. Or Hans.(I know that means no commentary on spotting manipulative people, but outside of a few bits of foreshadowing, they rushed it so badly that they'd be better off scrapping it here so it can be properly explored in a different movie).
Except Elsa left Anna to die and went and sulked in her castle after setting snow monsters they could have killed the group on them. She also was just going to let everyone starve freeze to death so she could be free. and its frustrating because this could of been fixed with a few more scene delates. Rather then them keeping moments that worked with Elsa is a villain but were no longer nessacary now that she wasn't. Instead we have a selfish callus person who only cares about themselves being forgiven despite having done nothing to earn it. Elsa should of tried to save Anna she's the one who was wronged it being the other way around was not well thought out. If Elsa was worried about hurting others then wouldn't it make sense she'd fight like hell to undo that?
@@alorapendrak9752 Did you forget the part where she was chased out and deemed dangerous after her powers were exposed? And the part where she stays away from Anna out of fear of what her powers could do to her? Calling her selfish for not doing things that go against Elsa's trauma and character is just disapointing.
@@kiwikarp9509 Elsa nearly killed her own sister by setting a monster on her. I'm just saying the writers made her look selfish and callous and having Elsa do that and it contradicted what they tried to set up with Elsa leaving to protect other people. Do I find it in character for Elsa to lose control and ice Anna's heart yes but I find it out of character Elsa took the time to create a rampaging monster twice her sister's size considering she's supposed to be protective of her. One which tried to knock Anna off a cliff. It makes more sense that was a scene from previous drafts where Elsa was a villain. But with Elsa as not a villain that scene should of been cut. As well as Elsa not trying to do anything to undo what she accidentally caused. Like what if Elsa let Anna and Kristoff go back with blankets and supplies? She's not confident enough to undo the snowstorm but the writers could have done something little to show Elsa still cares despite her issues. I just don't think some of those plot theads were handled well.
I was also in the stage of transition from teen to young adult when I first saw the movie, and I definitely relate! I really loved the movie until it became a little _too_ popular...
So if the Snow Queen was adapted and released during the Disney Renaissance era, Frozen wouldn't have been released in 2013 and instead in the late 80s or 90s, but the story that we have in Frozen would have been what it originally was going to be about, which was the story of the snow Queen, and the title wouldnt have been Frozen but instead would have been the Snow Queen. So to put it simply, Frozen was at one point going to be part of the Disney Renaissance, but they canceled it and then later went back to it and released it in 2013
Another triumph!
I actually watched The 1957 Snow Queen 2 times, its an interesting movie alright. Although Russia is known for copying American Media i.e Winnie Pooh, it doesn't stop all films from being original and great.
To correct your pronunciations:
11:38 its Soyuzmultfilm. Prounounced as written. Its just the conjugation of soyuz multi-film, union multi-film.
11:54 Not Leoen, Leonid Shvartsman. Again, read the letters, this isnt french, its slavic transliteration. Every letter makes the exact same sound regardless of the word. Queue would be read ku-e-u-e, not kyu.
12:04 You added an extra v in Vinokurov. Also the stress is on the back, not the front.
12:55 The Rs are pronounced hard.
So Kai and Gerda are Danish, the Snow Queen is Ahtohallan, the Sorceress is Eldoran, the Robber Girl is Northuldran, the Prince and Princess are Arendelle, the Lapp Woman is Lappish, and the Finn Woman is Finnish.
What a pity, I'd so have loved to enjoy the Enchanted Snow Palace in Disneyland.
The Snow Queen wasn't really a villain, she just was who she was. She just was a natural force of nature.
Snow mommy ftw
14:00 So that's how you pronounce my name? Interesting...
Incorrect, but very interesting.
I'm not offended in the slightest, don't get me wrong, it simply amuses me.
You almost got it. The "ya" sound is the only incorrect one. It's pronounced simply as "a" but with "n" before it being softened like before the letter "y".
In Russian it's spelled Женя, with ж correctly being zh, е being e, н being n, and я being pronounced ya only if it doesn't have a consonant before it, so with n before it the correct pronounciation is a with n before it being softened.
Sorry if none of that made any sense. Just trying to clarify. I don't care about any words which aren't my name being mispronounced. Not that I really care about my name either, I just love hearing it in an English speaking video.
Keep up the great work.
Interesting how Anderson being Friend Zoned eventually lead to a Movie about Sisterly Love with a sub plot being critical about the Love At First Sight Trope
I’m sure the old one would of turned out way better then the one that came out in the 2010s no let it go bs
NO WAY!! what if Miyazaki really did quit! He never would have made any of my favorite movies! How inspiring. 🤯
The original Soviet one has a better message than frozen
Kinda have to agree. I think Frozen 2 atleast redeemed some of the problem i had with the first Disney movie
Scribbles to Screen like what you said at the end of this documentary, that you're curious of what one of the original Snow Queen projects made by Disney producers were to been like.
To tell you the truth when you work on the next video, please make a documentary video about the original Disney 2011 version of The Snow Queen, when it was later rename Frozen. But they were still working on the original version. Where Anna was the peasant, and that she wanted to meet the Snow Queen. So her broken heart would be Frozen and so forth by the Snow Queen.
And of course that it was originally meant to be a hand-drawn 2D animated Disney movie.
Please look into more depth and more everything of that original version, and talk about it as a new documentary video hopefully for the next video or upcoming video.
Please try to do this idea for the next video, or an upcoming video ?
Because I found out a little bit about it, and I'm just wondering and curious myself. That like the original Hans Christian Andersen version of The Snow Queen, instead of a boy being kidnapped and going to the Snow Queen. And a girl has to rescue him and so forth, I was thinking that the original Disney 2D version was about this girl who was a peasant and wanted to go to the Snow Queen. And I was thinking that some kind of teenage boy was going to rescue her. So that's what I know so far, and I could be correct on it.
So because of that, please talk about more about the original 2D Disney version of The Snow Queen. That was written and planned back in 2011, please make sure to make a video documentary about that for the next video or upcoming video please ?
Because I still want to know the answers to that version by Walt Disney animation studios
Thank you for your interest, Daniel!
I'm afraid that's all the information we currently know about the 2011 movie, no doubt more information will come to light, but I wouldn't expect an update video any time soon
to be able to see a 2d evil elsa cut of frozen
I wish the ride was a thing. It sounds pretty cool. I also wish Disney would go back to hand-drawn animation. Did you know that Tangled was originally supposed to be Walt Disney's first film? I thought all of the Winnie the Pooh movies were good. I love Pooh. He's the best! I STILL think Elsa should be the villains. I hate twist villains unless it's the Screenslaver even though he's scary. I love Do You Want to Build a Snowman? It's the best! I love Frozen, but I wish it was hand-drawn. It's always better. Sorry for the long comment.
I don't blame Disney for drastically changing the story. The original story was very long, kinda disjointed, and the Snow Queen herself is only in the beginning of the story. A very true, faithful adaptation of that story could only really work as a miniseries, probably something similar to Over the Garden Wall. Plus Disney told a pretty good story with Frozen. It was arguably one of the most iconic Animated movies of the 2010s.
Thank you!!!!!!!!
Hmmm yeah
Your telling me that frozen could have been good?
My name's NOT RICK!
ok
I really wanna see the Peasant!Anna concept but she and the queen fall in love :3
Ooo 😅 now that's definitely something we haven't seen yet in a Disney production
Only if she's aged up from that concept art, or the Ice Queen is aged down, otherwise it would be a bit awkward to say the least.
I don't think anything is stopping you from writing that story, or commissioning someone to write it if you can't.
Anderson didn't write fairy tales. He & the brothers Grimm collected stories passed around verbally for hundreds of years & added their own touches.
It's no use....When I hear Tchaikovsky playing in the background, that's all my ears will listen to.
I'd recognize Soyuzmultfilm's animation style anywhere. I share Miyazaki's preference for their work over Disney's.
I prefer the Snegurochka-inspired concept art over the Elsa we ended up with.
So let's look at the history of the production of frozen.
honestly I feel so bad for HCA and people like him. I can’t imagine how much more confusing a blooming sense of identity was for him at that time. you can tell just from his works how misunderstood he truly was.
28:47 Lol Honestly, though, Anna was one of my first big crushes when I was younger hehe...
You know , for all the time that disney spent on frozen, you'd think Elsa would be a more interesting character. In frozen, Elsa is an incredibly boring character with no real personality- she just a maguffin for the other characters to chase after or react to .
Exactly. Yet the whole world including Disney themselves keep claiming her to be a "totally likable, sympathetic, relatable, and three-dimensional" character, when in reality, she's nothing but a totally unlikable, unsympathetic, unrelatable, one-dimensional, immoral, selfish, whiny, and helpless coward, who's not even in the movie that much despite being so heavily-advertised and having her stupid pretty face plastered everywhere. She does almost nothing throughout the entire movie. She never learns from her own mistakes nor does she ever develop and grow as a person. It's so baffling to see how anyone could find her to be such a great and memorable character. Anna's not much better either. In fact, it was Anna's own stupidity and lack of common sense along with her incapability of listening that caused the events of the movie to happen, which involves having Elsa being forced to isolate herself from everybody else, especially Anna, by being locked up in her own room for her whole childhood and never learning how to control her ice magic thanks to the incompetence and stupidity of their parents (which they would later die in the movie for no reason other than to create further conflict), having Elsa's powers be exposed in front of the entire kingdom after she gets into a heated argument with Anna over marrying Hans after only knowing him for a day, creating an eternal winter, running away from home to live in isolation, not doing anything to stop the storm from raging on forever and saving everyone from freezing to death, striking Anna in the heart when she tries to convince Elsa to return to Arendelle and reverse the curse, creating and sending a huge snow monster to chase Anna away from Elsa instead of realizing what Elsa had done to Anna and going after her to save her before it's too late, and being brought back to the kingdom by Hans using force after she was knocked out while trying to defend herself.
@@1992disney Yeah its even more annoying because the source material was about a kind, clever badass girl who went on a quest to try and get her kidnapped male childhood friend back. Who is so resilient she ends up going all the way to the ends of the earth without shoes. Even the Hallmark version with its questionable adaptation choices had Gerda shove a dagger into the Snow Queens' heart.
@@1992disney Maybe Disney had such a hard time adapting the Snow Queen, that Disney gave up and made something that barely has anything to due with the Snow Queen.
@@orangeslash1667 Well had Treasure Planet never bombed, that definitely would've given Disney the confidence they needed to stick with original draft for their version of The Snow Queen instead of completely changing it at the very last minute all because of one song.
The 1957 looks like an evil queen we would love as a villain, idk I feel robbed now
for me frozen is not the snow queen story
I still think 'Frozen' could've worked just as well in 2D. =)
I am danise 😊
Uhhh...frozen is disney allow cgi not 2d animated thingy!!!!!!
Hans really said ‘SHES AS COLD AS ICE!’
Yes.
you sound like you speak in new times roman
before 1933s Alison wonderland they actually had a snow white film before dark that Walt Disney scene
It's strange to learn on how that Frozen was based on a story that the author who made it has also made Little Mermaid.
So the Wind of Leafs is the Element of Air, the Fire Salamander is the Element of Fire, the Water Nokk is the Element of Water, the Earth Giants are the Elements of Earth, and Snow Queen Elsa is the Element of Spirit.
Россия! Россия! В этом слове огонь и сила!
Да, согласен:)
Man i thought that was elsas ancestors
8:03 Biography, not Autobiography.
I love movies based off European fairy tails
Man, Frozen could've been so much better had it stuck with a more darker route and kept Elsa as the villain, Disney missed such a golden opportunity when they took the film in a overly saccharine direction.
Well you mean ... they choose to copy Wicked
I think disney also took a lot of "inspiration" from "Barbie and Pegasus" for frozen.
Some of the plot point are literally the same.