The great thing about Dune is that once you've read it, you can see it's influence in so much of speculative fiction. I am beyond excited for this movie!
it's in everything (in my opinion), ASOIAF (even the main premise is very very similar and a lot of the details too), in Mistborn (the bleak world, the emperor, the atium/melange, etc etc lol), those are the two I can think of.
I'm so glad the movie date got pushed back to December for Australia so I can have time to read it beforehand (as I am currently addicted to Realm of the Elderlings, Hobb you can have my firstborn). Also great review!!! It makes me more excited to read!!!!!!!!!
I could never fault anyone for a Realm of the Elderlings addiction! I’ll be reading a lot more Hobb next year myself. I hope you’ll enjoy both Dunes (the book and the film)!
Amazing review, Philip! I love what you said about the relationship to the makers and the theme of transcendence. Both times reading this book, I had a dizzying sense of a vast universe juxtaposed with a world that is mysterious and dangerous to little humans-just like our own world in many ways. The transcendence theme adds another layer of interconnection. Each theme in this book provides me a sense of wonder but also vulnerability, which I love. I completely agree about the epigraphs and characters. Thanks for this wonderful review and for joining in our discussion!
Thank you, Johanna! That combination of wonder and vulnerability is characteristic of the greatest fiction. I suppose another way to put it is “the sublime,” as we’ve discussed before. I’m so happy that you invited me for that Dune discussion - definitely a BookTube highlight for me!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy Yes, "the sublime" fits perfectly for the Dune experience! It was also meaningful to watch A.P.'s video on "story worlds" while rereading it. Sarah and Mike expressed interest in reconvening after watching the movie. I hope you're interested as well!
I’ve read this two weeks ago and really enjoyed it! Definitely agree that the subversion of the chosen one trope is one of its most interesting themes - also, I really loved the writing style!
I read Dune a number of times as a teenager and loved it. Read it recently as an old guy, 45, and merely liked it. Almost felt that parts were rushed.. Still a great book that has moved the genre forward.
It’s interesting how we experience a book differently at different times of our lives. I think I liked Dune even more this time than thirty years ago, but I do get how its age shows in certain ways. Still, as you say, its impact has been huge. Thanks for watching!
I also recently read Dune and really loved it. I was surprised how modern it felt at times and that I didn't have major issues with the writing style. I actually think the omniscient narrative is done very well and doesn't feel jarring at all and actually adds to the storytelling a lot because he can efficiently build characters without having to devote complete POV chapters to each small character. And I loved the ecological and philosophical discussions in the book, so good. Regarding the characters, I somewhat agree that they can appear to be a bit flat, but I think that is more due to the fact that Herbert sees them more as vessels to bring across his themes and in that light they are done very well, in my opinion. I will have to formulate my thoughts more coherently when I do my review for it, but I am definitely looking forward to read the rest of the series as well as to reread Dune because it definitely feels like a book that would be a completely different experience on a second read.
Very well said, Sheikh! I agree completely that, in Dune, the characters serve the themes, which can be a sign of depth in a book - one reason it’s a classic and has had so much influence. I will try to check out your review as I’m subscribed to your channel. Cheers!
I finished reading it this week, and I think there's 1 thing that stands out to me in this book, and that solidifies it as a masterpiece IMO: how Frank Herbert develops Arrakis and the fremen. The lack of water is the single most defining element of both things, I think, and it's incredible how much it affects on culture and life in general. What they wear, how they live, what are their preoccupations, what are their dreams and ambitions, how they interact, etc. The lack of water isn't just an isolated thing, it's a profound change on how people live and Frank explores it deeply, which I love. Also, I agree with most of your points, specially about the characters, but I don't love how the Baron was developed. I think Feyd is the more interesting Harkonnen because he isn't blind to some stuff. I do like how the Baron thinks most of the time, though, and I think he is smart, for the most part
Beautifully said! Herbert was a master world builder, and his ecological concerns and knowledge were key factors that drove his writing. Also, I see your point about Baron Harkonnen. Thanks for the excellent comment!
I just finished reading Dune 2 days ago for the first time. I don't know why I waited so long to pick it up. It was much more modern feeling than I expected. I loved it and I can't wait to see the movie! I randomly watched an episode of South Park last night and it was their own ridiculous spoof of Dune. But if I hadn't read the book I would have no idea why that episode was funny. Lol
Can't believe I missed this! Thanks for you perspective, and way to go with keeping this spoiler free but keeping it intriguing. That must've been tuff!
Great review! I read Dune in the early 90s, liked it, from what I remember, but am really interested in re-reading it now that I’m older (52) and see how it resonates. Will do in September. Have seen the new adaptation and it is indeed breathtaking. Looking forward to part 2 🤓
Excellent video Philip! I love the epigraphs as well. They add so much depth to the story, and especially with the betrayer. What I loved is that some characters don’t discover the truth of who the betrayer is till toward the end, and that makes you long with suspense for that discovery. This was a reread for me as well. It still stands as my favorite sci-fi book of all time.
Very well said about the betrayer, Chas. A lot of the power of the book is in the internal journeys of the characters. Finding out the truth of the betrayal is a big part of that for several characters, so even though we readers already know, we’re eager for the characters to understand.
Awesome review!! I have been watching booktube and reading reviews for many years but your reviews are some of the most enlightening and thought-provoking I've come across! I love how you emphasize themes and draw parallels to other works for richer context. It always teaches me something beyond just the specific book you are discussing, and really helps me develop my understanding of books in general and tools to analyse them. Thank you Philip!!!
Thanks so much! You’ve made my day with your comment here because those are exactly the things I hope to accomplish on the channel. I appreciate your kindness and encouragement more than I can say!
Epigraphs do give away some things but they help build the near mythical image of Muad'dib and give an outside view looking in. Similar style was there in foundation series as well
Thank you, Alex! I know you’ve become a big Dune fan, and justifiably so. I hope to continue reading in the series next year. I’m sure you’re planning to see the film as well, so here’s to hoping we love it!
I loved Dune when I read it back in high school, but I'm certainly due for a re-read. Great review! You're always so well-spoken and thorough even when avoiding spoilers :)
Agreed. I thought it added a nice bit of tension. You knew who they were, but you didn't know the full picture of their betrayal at all, so there was still a lot to learn.
I was hoping this review would come. Dune is one of my favourite books ever. It’s incredibly immerse and Frank Herbert’s world is realized so well. I’m happy you mentioned that Paul is not a full-blown hero, since that’s a detail some people miss out on. I think I’ll do yet another reread before the film’s release (which looks amazing btw)
I don’t usually get too excited by films (the last time was for the Lord of the Rings films back in the early 2000s), but I must admit I’m on board the hype train for the Dune film. I’m trying not to let my expectations soar too high, but I have a feeling it’s going to amazing. Cheers!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy between the stellar cast, trailers, soundtrack, and director I think that being excited is warranted. I for one can’t wait
Many thanks for your review of 'Dune'. I appreciated the key elements of the work you draw out and how they worked together to tell such a fantastic tale, but I would like to note the world building Herbert employs. He gives the reader an incredibly intense, detailed and senuous picture of rhe planet, both natural and human. I've rarely felt so taken in by an imaginary world as this one. The sandworms alone are one of science fiction's greatest creations. Like you, I read this novel several decades ago, so it's probably time for a re-read!
Thanks, John! You’re absolutely right to point out the details and the majesty of Herbert’s world. It’s stark and iconic, a perfect place to weave a tale where humans are pushed to their limits. Much appreciated!
So far I have resisted a Dune reread. But your discussion over on Johanna's channel has prompted me at least to locate my rather battered looking copy. My first read is more or less as long ago as yours. That makes it especially interesting for me to hear your thoughts and experiences with rereading it. Good to know that it has aged well and was enjoyable the second time round. And the wonderful thangka is back! 😁
Yes, as you know, that’s my favorite thangka! I would say that Dune is most certainly on the relatively short list of books worth a reread, especially after thirty years. If you give it a try, I hope you’ll enjoy it as I did.
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy One of the effects your channel has for me is being reminded of some of the wonderful classics that might merit a reread. Resisting to read Dune is probably futile with all the hype at the moment. I researched a bit more how thangka are actually painted and was suprised and disapointed at the same time. I think I was hoping for some mysterious and exotic process but it turned out they are more or less made the same way that I paint an oil painting.
@@brush2canvas849 Ah, but that means you could paint a thangka! Or your version of one, which could be awesome. Thanks so much for the kind words too - I’m happy when anything I say on the channel evokes fond bookish memories for people.
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy yes, I know, as it sounds a bit bizarre if put like that. But yes, I could paint a thangka. I would have to get my head around a different visual language and its cultural background but from a technique point of view and the materials used I wouldn't have much of a problem if I was dropped into one of those workshops. So if I got stranded in Kathmandu I would have a job.
@@brush2canvas849 Yay! However, Kathmandu has become overdeveloped, so try to arrange to be stranded in someplace like Bhaktapur, which is gorgeous and full of artists.
I should reread Dune one of these days... Thanks, Philip, for this review! The book you describe looks like the book I read. I went to see the movie two days ago, in ideal IMAX conditions... After you've seen it and (I guess!) have 'published' your review, I'll tell you what I made of it.
Dune is my all time favorite book. There would be no Star Wars without Dune. I've heard people criticize Frank Herbert's writing style, but I think it was ahead of its time. Dune is to sci-fi what Lord of the Rings is to fantasy. I love your channel Dr. Chase. I look forward to all your videos.
I loved watching both this review and the discussion on Johanna's channel, it really made me appreciate the book more than I initially did. While I can certainly see why Dune is one of the most highly praised and influential sci-fi works ever, I personally really struggled with it because of the fact that I couldn't connect to the characters. I do agree with you that this book has aged quite well, but the aspects you mentioned that didn't age as well are exactly the things that kept me from having a truly enjoyable reading experience. The movie is already out in The Netherlands, so of course I wanted to see that as soon as possible (despite the fact that I didn't love the book). I found the movie to be an amazing adaptation of this book (it covers the first half of the first book) and it helped me to connect to and care for the characters in a way that the book wasn't able to accomplish. Denis Villeneuve stayed very true to the book and the worldbuilding was delivered in a very organic way. The shots were beautiful, the acting was super good and I was just overall completely immersed. I truly think that this adaptation will please both long-time fans of the books, as well as people who are unfamiliar with the story (or who maybe do know it, but didn't like it in book format). I hope you will enjoy it as well when it releases in the USA, I'd love to hear your thoughts on it! :)
Thank you, Esmay! I love hearing that my videos or discussions I’ve been in have helped someone appreciate a book more. Makes me want to make more videos! Thanks also for your take on the film, which has me even more excited to see it. I’m a bit nervous, to be honest, but also hopeful that I’ll love it. We shall see!
As ever, a wonderful review! I had such a fun time discussing this book with the three of you, and hope we can all go on to find enjoyment in the next three installations.
what a fantastic review, without spoilers you still go greatly in-depth - great as always Philip... Everyone's been talking about Dune recently, I'm so excited to finally get to it later (next month probably). Looking forward to re-reading it now with now a much more well honed reading ability. Are you planning on continuing on with the rest of Herbert's Dune novels?
Thank you, Zan! Yes, the film has definitely ramped up the interest in Dune, which I think is a great thing. I hope you’ll enjoy the reading experience. I do want to read at least the next three books in the Dune series, but I won’t get to them soon since I’ve got so many other things going on. Someday!
Another great review. Although I consider myself a fairly astute reader that often sees the deeper themes within a narrative, you always seem to give me several things to consider that I hadn't, so thank you! Oh, and if you like the epigraphs (as I did) and keep reading the series, Herbert takes them to another level in God Emperor of Dune. Several of those epigraphs could spur deep philosophical discussions on humanity, civilization, government and more. Herbert was a very keen observer of people and society.
Thanks so much for the kind words! I do hope to read at least the next three Dune books, and I look forward to seeing what Herbert does with those epigraphs. I agree with you about Herbert being a keen observer, which seems to me one of the qualities common to great writers. Cheers!
I liked the epigraphs. I felt they really added to the story overall. As far as characters go, it never occurred to me than any of them were flat. Obviously, some are more well-rounded than others, but that's what you would expect of those who are the focus of the story.
I wouldn’t even go as far as saying the Dune characters are flat, just flatter than what a lot of readers of modern genre fiction have come to expect. They serve the themes, whereas I think a lot of modern fiction puts characters before anything. Being above a certain age, I actually prefer stories that prioritize theme over anything else, so Dune really works for me. And the characters are very well executed, like everything else.
I read Dune at the start of the month and I still thinking about it.. a lot. It's leapt onto my favourite books of all time, currently usurping Wuthering heights in the top spot however I am re reading WH next month so we'll see if Dune hangs on in first place. Loved the video as ever and I really enjoyed the one on Johanna's channel with all your book tube friends. I am going to read the next 3 books in the Dune series as suggested by Mike probably in November and December. 🤓
Thanks so much, Tracey! I too will eventually follow Mike’s advice and read the next three installments in the series. Sounds like Dune was a huge hit for you! I also love Wuthering Heights, by the way.
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy I love the Brontes, some other books special to me are Stoner by John Williams all his books are excellent though, Slaughter house 5 by Kurt Vonnegut, Embers by Sandor Marai, All quiet on the Western Front by Erich Maria Remarque, A Town like Alice by Nevil Shute, A Tale of Two Cities by Charles Dickens, Lady Chatterley's Love by D H Lawrence, My Antonia by Willa Cather... I'll stop boring you now. 🤓
Absolute classic of a novel. Are you planning on watching the film coming soon? Edit: ended the video on a yes! I personally cannot wait to see this in the IMAX cinema near me
In the days of yore, when the main news out of America was that their president liked cigars and interns a wee bit too much, 14 year old me decided that I really needed to improve my english. Being a rather bookish kid, I had the idea that reading a "real" book would help me tremendously. Real as in not one of the ad usum delphini books we read in school. Westwood Studios had just released Dune 2000, and the review in the german pc games magazine that I read went a little bit into the back story of the game. That is how I stumbled over Dune. I ordered it from my local bookstore (which proved more complicated than I thought since apparently, the also was a german author by the name of Herbert Franke, but in the end, I got the right book). It took me forever to struggle through it. It did indeed expand my vocabulary. Just not in any way that helped me in school. I re-read it later as an adult, which helped a lot with understanding points that younger me had missed.
That’s a great story, Gerd! It seems to me that your determination to improve your English worked out very well. I remember that president, by the way, and those quaint, naively optimistic days. How time flies!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy Well, thank you for the flattering words! I believe my parents sending me to summer school in England probably did a lot more to improve my English, but soldiering through Dune at an age and language proficiency level that were probably both not sufficient has made me cocky enough to feel undaunted by pretty much any book. In 13th grade, I wrote a "paper" comparing Dune and Lord of the Rings, focussing on religious themes in both books. In classic teenager fashion (and foreshadowing the university days to come), it was a terribly rushed job. I typed out 20 pages in one night. Somehow, I still managed to get full marks, but I suspect that had more to do with my teacher being impressed by the sheer amount of info dumped onto her (and she hadn't read either book). If I would read it today, I'd probably be appalled.
@@gerdforster883 It’s fair to say we’d all be appalled by our writing efforts from our teens. That said, perhaps we should be a bit proud too. I think a teenager who writes twenty pages comparing Dune and Lord of the Rings is on an excellent path with lots of vistas ahead.
What a fantastic review. I'm also rereading it for the first time in many years, and very much looking forward to the film, I definitely agree with most of this. The epigraphs are great, they really add a sense of dread and impending doom if you pay attention to the plot beats they 'spoil'. Very much looking forward to your thoughts on the film and more of the books. :)
Thank you, Robin! You expressed the effect of the epigraphs very well. I’m counting the days now until the film comes out, and I’m sure I’ll be involved in some discussions of it. I hope you’ll enjoy it too!
Nooo don't skip the epigraphs!!!! Regarding them giving plot points away, they aren't really spoilers if items are given away on the back covers of subsequent books. Eagerly awaiting the more thorough review. Reread on the near future when I can see how my reading experience has changed after watching yours and AP's videos.
I’m in complete agreement regarding the epigraphs, Eric. My next Dune discussion will likely be on the film, but if you haven’t seen it yet, the one on Johanna’s channel is, in my humble opinion, quite excellent! Link in the description.
Just finished my first read of Dune and really enjoyed it. I didn’t think it was a perfect book, but I got sucked into the world Herbert built. Was it me or did it seem like there were some scenes/plot lines that never really came to fruition? As I got closer to the end I realized there wasn’t enough time for some of them to come back around. And I didn’t quite get why the Reverend Mother was testing Paul to see if he was human. What else would he have been? We didn’t see any non-humans in the book? I must have missed something. But overall I enjoyed it quite a bit. Not sure right now if I’ll go on to the others. Already have a huge tbr:)
I think by “human,” the Bene Gesserit mean a person who is awakened, who lives above the level of a beast. So, you could insert “fully human” there, I suppose. I didn’t notice any hanging threads other than stuff I would expect Herbert to pick up in the next books (like what Alia is going to be!), but maybe that’s what you were picking up on. I do think Paul’s vision of the bloody future is not fully explained (the jihad), but maybe that’s what the subsequent books will reveal. I’m by no means an expert since I’ve read only the first book. I’m glad you enjoyed the read overall. Cheers!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy maybe less hanging threads and more just wanting or expecting certain scenes to be more fully realized later on. Like the Baron/Hawatt conversation in his chambers. There seemed to be so much scheming and hidden plots that never really bore fruit. Not fully at least. Was expecting that, in particular, to become a bigger part of the story.
@@mmurphy3608 Got it. Yes, compared to villains in a lot of modern genre fiction, the Harkonnens are pretty underdeveloped with not a lot of page time. I think it’s one facet of Dune that shows its age.
Some may wish to know that a prequel to Dune was written by Frank Herbert's son, Brian, along with Kevin Anderson. It's entitled "Dune: House Atreides." I personally don't find the writing to be on a par with Frank Herbert's writing, but it is certainly readable.
Haha I last read this in '95, college freshman year. Until my reread this month. I enjoyed the reread a lot more, and realised how influential this sci-fi book is on the fantasy genre. Wheel of Time in particular, Song of Ice and Fire, and as you mention, Malazan as well. Also didn't remember there were so many Islamic / Arabic phrases scattered all throughout the book. Hope the movie does it proper justice!
It’s interesting, but I noticed the Arabic the first time. This time, I noticed also that many of the words seem to have a South Asian inspiration (Sanskrit derived) as well. I noticed this because I speak Nepali (and understand some Hindi words) now, and thirty years ago I didn’t. For me too it got even better on the reread. Cheers, Farhad!
I am reading it again after about 20 years in preparation for the movie. I actually think anyone reading the book for the first time shouldn't avoid spoilers. I enjoy it more knowing the overall story, plots, and backgrounds of all the characters. At least in the first 4 books. Going in blind a lot of it is confusing as hell. I also feel like Frank Herbert was great at world building but not the best at story telling.Still a series I really enjoyed growing up and I hope the movie can make up for some of the novels short comings.
I plan to read at least the next three books in the series. After that, we’ll see since even fans have told me the quality tapers off at that point. As for the film, I have high hopes right now. Thanks for watching and commenting!
Great review. I think Dune proper is one of the best books ever written. I think after he got a bit too tied to his meta-narrative, especially Book 3 and following. So I don't put those works on the same pedestal. But for a one-shot, no story holds me as thoroughly as Dune. And it is a complete story in itself. If not the full history of his universe. And the Anniversary Edition is simply gorgeous.
Thanks, Shawn! Yes, I should replace my old edition, which is missing its dust jacket, with one of those fancy new ones. I’ll eventually read further in the series, perhaps the first four books.
I would suggest reading Hunters and then Sandworms first. Since I read the Anderson/Herbert books as they were published, I was kind of burned out by the time I read those.
I like, that you are mentioning the different use of characters in opposite to postmodern literature. In my opinion the characters in Dune are not there to serve the immersion als usually, but much more serve the theming of the story. In contrast the immersion is mainly build through the planet itself. With sand, dryness, the sandworms and the general emptyness it has sometimes much more of a unique character than the actual human beings. mild spoiler: At some point they discuss the possibilty of terraforming the planet into a humid and green enviroment, and i felt almost offended by that... XD It felt for me as if they were talking about the future of a person who is not there to defend himself... I´m not sure if you can see where i´m coming from.... XD
Well said! I agree with you that the characters in Dune serve the themes, whereas in much modern genre fiction, characters are paramount. Altering Arrakis to a greener place would certainly change its character. I think they were planning to change only parts of it, but still.
Great video. Could you explain the 'transcend our tribalism' bit? I haven't read the book yet so I may not get it without context but that phrase was a bit unclear to me. Thank you.
My pleasure! By tribalism, I mean absolute loyalty to one’s perceived “in-group” while mistrusting and even hating anyone or anything outside it as a threat. So, transcending our tribalism would mean understanding and embracing our commonality with those we perceive as “others”. You could see it as an expansion of the in-group from “people like me” to all people, or even all creatures. It’s an expansion of consciousness and an awareness of connection.
Political Intrigue? Try The Wars of The Roses, often cited as the original ASOIAF, where paranoia certainly aided survival against 'political' opponents and dropping one's guard could have brutal consequences. I note you comments of the separation of child and parents at a point in the growing of the child. That observation is most likely to made by someone who , like yourself, is a parent. I always think that is a leaving that affects the parents more than the child, who may or may not be grateful for what his/her parents have done for them so far and of course, with later maturity will appreciate more fully the parental love, for good or bad. I must admit I still like the David Lynch film. Yes, it was of its time, but the sets and costumes captured much of the baroque feeling of the book, Sting gave a wonderfully performance both impish and malevolent plus there is a section of music by Brian Eno, The Prophecy Theme, which is breathtakingly beautiful, especially in its full form (its on YT). I bought a copy of the recent hardback with the stunning turquoise/golden cover, which finally has a decent map in it (refreshed from the original) although I already have several copies of Dune from the old NEL paperbacks to the Gollancz SF Masterworks edition. I have loved this book since my first copy about 50 years ago. I have read some of the Brian Herbert Kevin Anderson books, which are not without flaws but do provide great background to where Dune begins. Great review, Philip. No, awesome review. You packed a lot into so few minutes. Thank you so much!
Thank you, Neil! It sounds like Dune has a special place in your heart. That being the case, I’m glad you enjoyed my review. I intend to read at least the next three books in the series at some point, though next year would be the earliest. I hope this latest film will be worthy of the book. It’s been a very long time since I saw the version with Sting - since the 80s, in fact, but I remember it making an impression. Cheers!
Thank you, Raul! I’m not on Goodreads yet, but perhaps someday. One social media platform at a time for this old dog who is trying to learn new tricks!
Any plans on continuing into Messiah? It's only around 250 pages, and I read it in 3 days even though I'm a slow reader! It absolutely floored me. When it initially came out it was critically panned, but I think it's only become more relevant. It's not what you'd expect from a sequel to Dune, it doesn't really feel like its own book. Instead, it reads like an extended epilogue to the first book, and feels like the true ending Herbert wanted. Apparently, Villeneuve wants to adapt Messiah, and have a trilogy of movies.
I will most definitely read Dune Messiah at some point. I’d like to read at least the first four books. I’m not sure when exactly, but next year for sure. Cheers!
Sorry Philip, this is like my 3rd comment on today's video - but thoughts on reading the sequels? I know you do primarily fantasy books on the channel, but I've heard the sequels are fantastic to wanted to get your take on it.
No worries, Chirag - I’m always happy to hear from you! In regard to the sequels, I intend to read the first four books in the series eventually, though not likely this year. I’ve heard the quality drops after that, but if I really like the next three, I might even read further.
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy ahh yes, I have also heard Book 4 is the best book in the series, and then it drops off a little. Maybe I can also join you if you do read the sequels next year or something :) Always a pleasure to speak to you Philip.
Great review of a great book! We're all eager to see what the master Denis Villeneuve delivers this time. He's yet to make a film that wasn't exceptional in my opinion.
I never had the dust jacket since it was given to me by a friend, but it was the hardcover produced by Ace Books in 1999. I wish I knew what the dust jacket looked like!
I just finished my first read of Dune last month. I love your review and the discussion you four had. I’m hope to re-read Dune as well as the rest of Frank Hurbert’s Dune works next year.
Sounds like you enjoyed Dune! I too hope to continue reading further in the series next year. I’m happy you enjoyed the review and the discussion, Brady!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy i'm very fond of it, but at the same time i have mixed feelings about it and im not the biggest fan of herberts writing style, i ended up dnfing the series at book 4
IMO, God Emperor is the worst. If you can make it past that, there is no reason not to read the rest. But stopping after Children is probably a good spot.
@@Thecatladybooknook_PennyD One of those awesome books that mostly does not take place in space (but DOES involve an interstellar war that has been raging off and on for ten thousand years) is In Conquest Born by C.S. Friedman. It was her first book and is still one of her best (she writes fantasy, too). It was huge and epic all in one book. Seriously, it's great. The sequel... not so much.
I loved the books, all six of them plus Dune Encyclopedia. Wont touch the son's added material. The film was very good, had great time watching it both times. I kind of want to reread the book again because of the marketing surrounding the film
I haven’t heard anyone wholeheartedly endorse the son’s contributions to the series. I’m committed to reading at least the first four Dune books at some point, perhaps next year, and then we’ll see. I’m excited to see the film when it arrives here!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy I hope you like the other books. The series became my favorite book series along with Brian Aldiss' Helliconia trilogy. Read the books last year during the pandemic lockdowns and layoffs.
This book really suits your channel - the best of fantasy. ;-) Btw, I read the book in my teens a long time ago, and reread it this year. Contrary to you, my opinion has changed a lot, i.e. I don't find it that good a book - unfortunately. Messiah, blue blood, chosen one, strange geneology fetish (= eugenics) are some reasons why I nowadays dislike the book. And the less I hear about how someones family/clan characterises a person, the better. There doesn't seem to be any room for individuality at all?
Ha ha! Yes, Dune is a fine example of how science fiction can use some of the same tropes as fantasy. It’s interesting to read your comment because I just had a discussion on the Chosen One trope on my channel with A.P. Canavan, and Dune came up. I think Herbert actually complicates the trope and even subverts it in some important ways, for example by having the “prophecy” be something seeded by the Bene Gesserit. And Paul seems keenly aware of not so much his heroism but the destructive potential behind the worship of him. At least that’s how I read it, but I welcome other views. Thanks for the excellent comment!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy You are right in everything you say about e.g. the "prophecy" being planted, and I find that to hold up in the first book. Unfortunately, everything is later changed with the golden path, genetic memory etcetera. Thus, imo the further the series progresses, the worse some traits become. Therefore, I have to admit that my current enjoyment of the first book is "somewhat" undermined by its sequels...
@@toinenosoite3173 Ah, that explains it. I’ve read only the first book, so I wasn’t aware of that direction. It does sound potentially problematic. Thanks for the heads up!
Wheel of Time is a series most definitely worth rereading, though 42 times might be a record! I’ll be rereading myself eventually, and I hope the show will bring lots of new readers to the series. Cheers, Ben!
@@benbutler9282 Yes - 42 being there meaning of life! The meaning of life is somewhere in WoT, right? Well, at the very least, it’ll help us along the way. 😁
The only part I didn't like at all from the book is the dinner scene. IMO the dinner dragged the whole book down to a crawl. Other than that an amazing book.
Sounds like you mostly enjoyed it, which is great. The book flew by for me! I wonder how the filmmakers will handle the dinner scene? Thanks for watching and commenting!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy I am currently halfway through Children of Dune and have enjoyed both Dune Messiah and CoD. I've read that God Emperor of Dune is where shit gets really weird.
"modern fantasy readers" "modern fantasy and science fiction" Are modern fantasy readers, reading only books from the modern era? And are modern era books narrowly conforming to niche, micro-era stylized, writing structures? That is such a strange thought to me. Almost every reader I know has engaged (at least a little) in a more "time buffet" method of reading. Where readers can skip around genres, authors, niches, eras, etc. to check out different books that end up on their personal radar. Sure, many will get stuck into some niche genre or auhor rabbit hole, but eventually they'll periodically wander out to nibble on some things outside that box.
One hopes so! And yet, there are styles and trends that are more characteristic of one era or another. In my experience, there are some people who grow up reading during a certain time and maintain a preference for the trends common during that time. I’ve met people who dislike fantasy after the 1980s, for example. There are even some people who stick to one particular series. But I agree that reading widely is the best way to get the most out your reading life. After all, I’m a medievalist in my day job!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy Interesting. I get this notion of figurative Book Collies. Changing in makeup and shape over time and distance. Herding different generations and tribes of readers onto different literary paths and journeys. I suppose there is always public signposts that influence our momentum and direction. Always some form of tide to drift on, or some pointy stick to jab us onto a course. Hopefully someone maps out this literate diaspora. Probably be a great tool for authors to chart out their path of conquest. Or for readers to translate their book conversations into pidgin, for interactions with other tribes.
Love the connections in Dune to Asimov’s Foundation and Lean’s Lawrence of Arabia. The Feud between the Feudal House and the Emperor is a great predecessor to “the Game of Thrones” indeed! And Herbert’s critique of various forms of charismatic leaders people follow because of who they are, rather then what they do, is timeless! The new Dune-movie should be watch on the biggest screen you can, epic and subtle as only Villeneuve can today! I give it 5/5 Bagpipes! Also saw the first Foundation episode on Apple+, which was gorgeous seems to do justice to the dilemmas and expand somewhat upon the characters of the sources material, so I give it a high 4/5 Space Elevators! There is some poetic justice in both Foundation and Dune getting such high end adaptations within a month! I would also mention that Princess Irulan is most likely inspired by Princess Anna Komnena of the Byzantine Empire, who wrote the “Alexiad” about her father Alexos I Komenos. As such, she is often called the first female historian in Western Civilization!
Very cool to learn about Princess Anna Komnena being an inspiration for Irulan - thank you! The more I hear about the Dune film, the more excited I get. The praise I’m hearing isn’t quite universal, but very close to it. Nevertheless, I’ll try not to let my expectations soar too high even as I secretly hope for an instant classic. Cheers!
Phillip you seem like a smart man and you should be old enough to know better. There’s too many books and not enough time. We can’t waste any time on rereads!
I read this novel a few years ago and I did not find it entertaining and even found it hard to be provoked to thought by the text. This one flopped for me hard. It just doesnt have what I look for in a book, I guess.
You’re definitely not alone in your negative experience of Dune. Since I know nothing about your age and next to nothing about your usual reading tastes, this is not directed at you, but I have the feeling that Dune could be slow in pace or even boring to people who are used to modern genre fiction, which tends to have more physical action on the page. Even if that’s not the reason why it flopped for you, the truth is there’s no book that works for everyone, and there’s nothing wrong with not loving Dune.
The great thing about Dune is that once you've read it, you can see it's influence in so much of speculative fiction. I am beyond excited for this movie!
Same here! I am optimistic that I’m going to love the film. Just one more month!
it's in everything (in my opinion), ASOIAF (even the main premise is very very similar and a lot of the details too), in Mistborn (the bleak world, the emperor, the atium/melange, etc etc lol), those are the two I can think of.
Go back far enough you will find where everything comes from. You wanna know what Dune was inspired by? The Foundation Series among other things.
Dune: A bit sandy.
I think I need to work on my review a bit.
😂
You and your reviews, Professor Fireballs. Please recall while editing that you’re obligated to include the word “verisimilitude”!
Highly recommended for those who like gritty books.
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy Dune: Evokes a verisimilitudinous desert setting, in other words, a bit sandy.
There. Fixed.
@@EricMcLuen 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I'm so glad the movie date got pushed back to December for Australia so I can have time to read it beforehand (as I am currently addicted to Realm of the Elderlings, Hobb you can have my firstborn). Also great review!!! It makes me more excited to read!!!!!!!!!
I could never fault anyone for a Realm of the Elderlings addiction! I’ll be reading a lot more Hobb next year myself. I hope you’ll enjoy both Dunes (the book and the film)!
RotE addicts unite
Amazing review, Philip! I love what you said about the relationship to the makers and the theme of transcendence. Both times reading this book, I had a dizzying sense of a vast universe juxtaposed with a world that is mysterious and dangerous to little humans-just like our own world in many ways. The transcendence theme adds another layer of interconnection. Each theme in this book provides me a sense of wonder but also vulnerability, which I love. I completely agree about the epigraphs and characters. Thanks for this wonderful review and for joining in our discussion!
Thank you, Johanna! That combination of wonder and vulnerability is characteristic of the greatest fiction. I suppose another way to put it is “the sublime,” as we’ve discussed before. I’m so happy that you invited me for that Dune discussion - definitely a BookTube highlight for me!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy Yes, "the sublime" fits perfectly for the Dune experience! It was also meaningful to watch A.P.'s video on "story worlds" while rereading it. Sarah and Mike expressed interest in reconvening after watching the movie. I hope you're interested as well!
@@Johanna_reads I’m in!
I’ve read this two weeks ago and really enjoyed it! Definitely agree that the subversion of the chosen one trope is one of its most interesting themes - also, I really loved the writing style!
I enjoyed the prose too, Klaus. It’s a good balance of accessible and sophisticated. Cheers!
I read Dune a number of times as a teenager and loved it. Read it recently as an old guy, 45, and merely liked it. Almost felt that parts were rushed.. Still a great book that has moved the genre forward.
It’s interesting how we experience a book differently at different times of our lives. I think I liked Dune even more this time than thirty years ago, but I do get how its age shows in certain ways. Still, as you say, its impact has been huge. Thanks for watching!
I also recently read Dune and really loved it. I was surprised how modern it felt at times and that I didn't have major issues with the writing style. I actually think the omniscient narrative is done very well and doesn't feel jarring at all and actually adds to the storytelling a lot because he can efficiently build characters without having to devote complete POV chapters to each small character. And I loved the ecological and philosophical discussions in the book, so good. Regarding the characters, I somewhat agree that they can appear to be a bit flat, but I think that is more due to the fact that Herbert sees them more as vessels to bring across his themes and in that light they are done very well, in my opinion. I will have to formulate my thoughts more coherently when I do my review for it, but I am definitely looking forward to read the rest of the series as well as to reread Dune because it definitely feels like a book that would be a completely different experience on a second read.
Very well said, Sheikh! I agree completely that, in Dune, the characters serve the themes, which can be a sign of depth in a book - one reason it’s a classic and has had so much influence. I will try to check out your review as I’m subscribed to your channel. Cheers!
I finished reading it this week, and I think there's 1 thing that stands out to me in this book, and that solidifies it as a masterpiece IMO: how Frank Herbert develops Arrakis and the fremen. The lack of water is the single most defining element of both things, I think, and it's incredible how much it affects on culture and life in general. What they wear, how they live, what are their preoccupations, what are their dreams and ambitions, how they interact, etc. The lack of water isn't just an isolated thing, it's a profound change on how people live and Frank explores it deeply, which I love.
Also, I agree with most of your points, specially about the characters, but I don't love how the Baron was developed. I think Feyd is the more interesting Harkonnen because he isn't blind to some stuff. I do like how the Baron thinks most of the time, though, and I think he is smart, for the most part
Beautifully said! Herbert was a master world builder, and his ecological concerns and knowledge were key factors that drove his writing. Also, I see your point about Baron Harkonnen. Thanks for the excellent comment!
I just finished reading Dune 2 days ago for the first time. I don't know why I waited so long to pick it up. It was much more modern feeling than I expected. I loved it and I can't wait to see the movie! I randomly watched an episode of South Park last night and it was their own ridiculous spoof of Dune. But if I hadn't read the book I would have no idea why that episode was funny. Lol
Ha ha! Now I’ll have to watch that episode of South Park! It’s a book with wide-ranging influence, isn’t it? I’m happy to hear Dune was a hit for you!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy the name of the episode is "Turd Burglars". 😆
Ha ha! I’m already laughing at the title - thanks!
Can't believe I missed this! Thanks for you perspective, and way to go with keeping this spoiler free but keeping it intriguing. That must've been tuff!
It’s always tricky to go spoiler free. I’m glad you enjoyed the video!
Great review! I read Dune in the early 90s, liked it, from what I remember, but am really interested in re-reading it now that I’m older (52) and see how it resonates. Will do in September.
Have seen the new adaptation and it is indeed breathtaking. Looking forward to part 2 🤓
Thank you! I’m very excited for part two of the latest Dune adaptation since I loved the first film. Best wishes for your reread of the book!
Excellent video Philip! I love the epigraphs as well. They add so much depth to the story, and especially with the betrayer. What I loved is that some characters don’t discover the truth of who the betrayer is till toward the end, and that makes you long with suspense for that discovery. This was a reread for me as well. It still stands as my favorite sci-fi book of all time.
Very well said about the betrayer, Chas. A lot of the power of the book is in the internal journeys of the characters. Finding out the truth of the betrayal is a big part of that for several characters, so even though we readers already know, we’re eager for the characters to understand.
Awesome review!! I have been watching booktube and reading reviews for many years but your reviews are some of the most enlightening and thought-provoking I've come across! I love how you emphasize themes and draw parallels to other works for richer context. It always teaches me something beyond just the specific book you are discussing, and really helps me develop my understanding of books in general and tools to analyse them. Thank you Philip!!!
Thanks so much! You’ve made my day with your comment here because those are exactly the things I hope to accomplish on the channel. I appreciate your kindness and encouragement more than I can say!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy and that made my day :-)
Always thankful for your input on important works of fiction
Thank you, Jorge!
Epigraphs do give away some things but they help build the near mythical image of Muad'dib and give an outside view looking in.
Similar style was there in foundation series as well
Absolutely right, Kakashi. Those epigraphs really build Muad’Dib’s status into the future savior. We know what he’ll become, but we don’t know how.
Additionally the epigraphs, in context of the end are a really interesting turn for the themes. Further drives home Herbert's subversion of tropes.
Well said, and I completely agree! Epigraphs are seldom used to such effect.
Congrats on approaching 10k Philip! Also Dune is brilliant, I love it so much and it's great to hear your thoughts on it.
Thank you, Alex! I know you’ve become a big Dune fan, and justifiably so. I hope to continue reading in the series next year. I’m sure you’re planning to see the film as well, so here’s to hoping we love it!
I loved Dune when I read it back in high school, but I'm certainly due for a re-read. Great review! You're always so well-spoken and thorough even when avoiding spoilers :)
Thank you! As you know, it’s tricky to avoid spoilers while saying anything substantive, so I appreciate the compliment!
I'm glad you enjoyed Dune.I finished yesterday my first reread and I love it now even more.Currently I'm 60 pages into Messiah and it's very good.
Thanks, Ciprian! I’m hoping to read further into the series as well, but not until next year, I’m afraid. Too much on my plate already!
Revealing the betrayer so early was a masterstroke. Frank Herbert pulled it off brilliantly, can't think of many authors who could have been so bold
I completely agree - bold and beautifully executed! Also a great exploration of theme achieved thereby.
Agreed. I thought it added a nice bit of tension. You knew who they were, but you didn't know the full picture of their betrayal at all, so there was still a lot to learn.
@@Rogue_VI Exactly!
I was hoping this review would come. Dune is one of my favourite books ever. It’s incredibly immerse and Frank Herbert’s world is realized so well. I’m happy you mentioned that Paul is not a full-blown hero, since that’s a detail some people miss out on. I think I’ll do yet another reread before the film’s release (which looks amazing btw)
I don’t usually get too excited by films (the last time was for the Lord of the Rings films back in the early 2000s), but I must admit I’m on board the hype train for the Dune film. I’m trying not to let my expectations soar too high, but I have a feeling it’s going to amazing. Cheers!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy between the stellar cast, trailers, soundtrack, and director I think that being excited is warranted. I for one can’t wait
really great review! love that you have such insightful approach on it
Thank you, Bintang - I appreciate the kind words!
Many thanks for your review of 'Dune'.
I appreciated the key elements of the work you draw out and how they worked together to tell such a fantastic tale, but I would like to note the world building Herbert employs. He gives the reader an incredibly intense, detailed and senuous picture of rhe planet, both natural and human. I've rarely felt so taken in by an imaginary world as this one. The sandworms alone are one of science fiction's greatest creations.
Like you, I read this novel several decades ago, so it's probably time for a re-read!
Thanks, John! You’re absolutely right to point out the details and the majesty of Herbert’s world. It’s stark and iconic, a perfect place to weave a tale where humans are pushed to their limits. Much appreciated!
So far I have resisted a Dune reread. But your discussion over on Johanna's channel has prompted me at least to locate my rather battered looking copy. My first read is more or less as long ago as yours. That makes it especially interesting for me to hear your thoughts and experiences with rereading it. Good to know that it has aged well and was enjoyable the second time round.
And the wonderful thangka is back! 😁
Yes, as you know, that’s my favorite thangka! I would say that Dune is most certainly on the relatively short list of books worth a reread, especially after thirty years. If you give it a try, I hope you’ll enjoy it as I did.
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy One of the effects your channel has for me is being reminded of some of the wonderful classics that might merit a reread. Resisting to read Dune is probably futile with all the hype at the moment.
I researched a bit more how thangka are actually painted and was suprised and disapointed at the same time. I think I was hoping for some mysterious and exotic process but it turned out they are more or less made the same way that I paint an oil painting.
@@brush2canvas849 Ah, but that means you could paint a thangka! Or your version of one, which could be awesome. Thanks so much for the kind words too - I’m happy when anything I say on the channel evokes fond bookish memories for people.
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy yes, I know, as it sounds a bit bizarre if put like that. But yes, I could paint a thangka. I would have to get my head around a different visual language and its cultural background but from a technique point of view and the materials used I wouldn't have much of a problem if I was dropped into one of those workshops. So if I got stranded in Kathmandu I would have a job.
@@brush2canvas849 Yay! However, Kathmandu has become overdeveloped, so try to arrange to be stranded in someplace like Bhaktapur, which is gorgeous and full of artists.
I should reread Dune one of these days... Thanks, Philip, for this review! The book you describe looks like the book I read.
I went to see the movie two days ago, in ideal IMAX conditions... After you've seen it and (I guess!) have 'published' your review, I'll tell you what I made of it.
My pleasure, Johan! I would very much like to hear your take on the film. I’m hoping to love it, but I’m just a bit nervous. We’ll see in a month!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy * bites his tongue *
I should definitely put Dune on my reread list, great vid Philip.
Thank you! Dune is on my relatively short list of books worth a reread, so I would say go for it!
Dune is my all time favorite book. There would be no Star Wars without Dune. I've heard people criticize Frank Herbert's writing style, but I think it was ahead of its time. Dune is to sci-fi what Lord of the Rings is to fantasy. I love your channel Dr. Chase. I look forward to all your videos.
Thank you! I agree with you regarding the LOTR and Dune analogy. Cheers!
I loved watching both this review and the discussion on Johanna's channel, it really made me appreciate the book more than I initially did. While I can certainly see why Dune is one of the most highly praised and influential sci-fi works ever, I personally really struggled with it because of the fact that I couldn't connect to the characters. I do agree with you that this book has aged quite well, but the aspects you mentioned that didn't age as well are exactly the things that kept me from having a truly enjoyable reading experience.
The movie is already out in The Netherlands, so of course I wanted to see that as soon as possible (despite the fact that I didn't love the book). I found the movie to be an amazing adaptation of this book (it covers the first half of the first book) and it helped me to connect to and care for the characters in a way that the book wasn't able to accomplish. Denis Villeneuve stayed very true to the book and the worldbuilding was delivered in a very organic way. The shots were beautiful, the acting was super good and I was just overall completely immersed. I truly think that this adaptation will please both long-time fans of the books, as well as people who are unfamiliar with the story (or who maybe do know it, but didn't like it in book format). I hope you will enjoy it as well when it releases in the USA, I'd love to hear your thoughts on it! :)
Thank you, Esmay! I love hearing that my videos or discussions I’ve been in have helped someone appreciate a book more. Makes me want to make more videos! Thanks also for your take on the film, which has me even more excited to see it. I’m a bit nervous, to be honest, but also hopeful that I’ll love it. We shall see!
As ever, a wonderful review! I had such a fun time discussing this book with the three of you, and hope we can all go on to find enjoyment in the next three installations.
Same here, Sarah! I hope to read the next three books in the series next year. I’m also getting pretty excited for the film. Lots to look forward to!
Hi there. Mike's Book Reviews brought me here. Dune is on my bucket list. great channel, subbed.
Thanks very much, Jay! I appreciate the kind words and the sub. I hope you’ll enjoy Dune when you get there!
what a fantastic review, without spoilers you still go greatly in-depth - great as always Philip... Everyone's been talking about Dune recently, I'm so excited to finally get to it later (next month probably). Looking forward to re-reading it now with now a much more well honed reading ability.
Are you planning on continuing on with the rest of Herbert's Dune novels?
Thank you, Zan! Yes, the film has definitely ramped up the interest in Dune, which I think is a great thing. I hope you’ll enjoy the reading experience. I do want to read at least the next three books in the Dune series, but I won’t get to them soon since I’ve got so many other things going on. Someday!
Another great review. Although I consider myself a fairly astute reader that often sees the deeper themes within a narrative, you always seem to give me several things to consider that I hadn't, so thank you! Oh, and if you like the epigraphs (as I did) and keep reading the series, Herbert takes them to another level in God Emperor of Dune. Several of those epigraphs could spur deep philosophical discussions on humanity, civilization, government and more. Herbert was a very keen observer of people and society.
Thanks so much for the kind words! I do hope to read at least the next three Dune books, and I look forward to seeing what Herbert does with those epigraphs. I agree with you about Herbert being a keen observer, which seems to me one of the qualities common to great writers. Cheers!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy Yes, I'd agree to read the first 4 and stop there!
Dune is my TBR 2022
I hope you’ll love it! It deserves the reverence it gets, in my opinion.
I liked the epigraphs. I felt they really added to the story overall. As far as characters go, it never occurred to me than any of them were flat. Obviously, some are more well-rounded than others, but that's what you would expect of those who are the focus of the story.
I wouldn’t even go as far as saying the Dune characters are flat, just flatter than what a lot of readers of modern genre fiction have come to expect. They serve the themes, whereas I think a lot of modern fiction puts characters before anything. Being above a certain age, I actually prefer stories that prioritize theme over anything else, so Dune really works for me. And the characters are very well executed, like everything else.
I read Dune at the start of the month and I still thinking about it.. a lot. It's leapt onto my favourite books of all time, currently usurping Wuthering heights in the top spot however I am re reading WH next month so we'll see if Dune hangs on in first place.
Loved the video as ever and I really enjoyed the one on Johanna's channel with all your book tube friends. I am going to read the next 3 books in the Dune series as suggested by Mike probably in November and December. 🤓
Thanks so much, Tracey! I too will eventually follow Mike’s advice and read the next three installments in the series. Sounds like Dune was a huge hit for you! I also love Wuthering Heights, by the way.
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy I love the Brontes, some other books special to me are Stoner by John Williams all his books are excellent though, Slaughter house 5 by Kurt Vonnegut, Embers by Sandor Marai, All quiet on the Western Front by Erich Maria Remarque, A Town like Alice by Nevil Shute, A Tale of Two Cities by Charles Dickens, Lady Chatterley's Love by D H Lawrence, My Antonia by Willa Cather... I'll stop boring you now. 🤓
@@yorkshirelasstracey5383 Not boring at all! I love most of those too!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy Thank you Philip that's nice to hear.
Absolute classic of a novel. Are you planning on watching the film coming soon? Edit: ended the video on a yes!
I personally cannot wait to see this in the IMAX cinema near me
I’d love to see it in an imax theater too! I imagine the experience will be unforgettable.
Reading Malice right now, but Dune is right after this one! looking forward to it, and the movie of course. will watch the discussion after!
Thanks, Chirag! Enjoy Malice and then Dune!
In the days of yore, when the main news out of America was that their president liked cigars and interns a wee bit too much, 14 year old me decided that I really needed to improve my english. Being a rather bookish kid, I had the idea that reading a "real" book would help me tremendously. Real as in not one of the ad usum delphini books we read in school.
Westwood Studios had just released Dune 2000, and the review in the german pc games magazine that I read went a little bit into the back story of the game. That is how I stumbled over Dune. I ordered it from my local bookstore (which proved more complicated than I thought since apparently, the also was a german author by the name of Herbert Franke, but in the end, I got the right book).
It took me forever to struggle through it. It did indeed expand my vocabulary. Just not in any way that helped me in school.
I re-read it later as an adult, which helped a lot with understanding points that younger me had missed.
That’s a great story, Gerd! It seems to me that your determination to improve your English worked out very well. I remember that president, by the way, and those quaint, naively optimistic days. How time flies!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy Well, thank you for the flattering words!
I believe my parents sending me to summer school in England probably did a lot more to improve my English, but soldiering through Dune at an age and language proficiency level that were probably both not sufficient has made me cocky enough to feel undaunted by pretty much any book.
In 13th grade, I wrote a "paper" comparing Dune and Lord of the Rings, focussing on religious themes in both books. In classic teenager fashion (and foreshadowing the university days to come), it was a terribly rushed job. I typed out 20 pages in one night. Somehow, I still managed to get full marks, but I suspect that had more to do with my teacher being impressed by the sheer amount of info dumped onto her (and she hadn't read either book).
If I would read it today, I'd probably be appalled.
@@gerdforster883 It’s fair to say we’d all be appalled by our writing efforts from our teens. That said, perhaps we should be a bit proud too. I think a teenager who writes twenty pages comparing Dune and Lord of the Rings is on an excellent path with lots of vistas ahead.
What a fantastic review. I'm also rereading it for the first time in many years, and very much looking forward to the film, I definitely agree with most of this. The epigraphs are great, they really add a sense of dread and impending doom if you pay attention to the plot beats they 'spoil'.
Very much looking forward to your thoughts on the film and more of the books. :)
Thank you, Robin! You expressed the effect of the epigraphs very well. I’m counting the days now until the film comes out, and I’m sure I’ll be involved in some discussions of it. I hope you’ll enjoy it too!
Nooo don't skip the epigraphs!!!!
Regarding them giving plot points away, they aren't really spoilers if items are given away on the back covers of subsequent books.
Eagerly awaiting the more thorough review.
Reread on the near future when I can see how my reading experience has changed after watching yours and AP's videos.
I’m in complete agreement regarding the epigraphs, Eric. My next Dune discussion will likely be on the film, but if you haven’t seen it yet, the one on Johanna’s channel is, in my humble opinion, quite excellent! Link in the description.
One of my favourite books. I have read multiple times over the years. Good Emperor of Dune is also very good.
I am definitely feeling motivated to keep reading in the series at some point next year. Thanks for watching and commenting!
Just finished my first read of Dune and really enjoyed it. I didn’t think it was a perfect book, but I got sucked into the world Herbert built.
Was it me or did it seem like there were some scenes/plot lines that never really came to fruition? As I got closer to the end I realized there wasn’t enough time for some of them to come back around. And I didn’t quite get why the Reverend Mother was testing Paul to see if he was human. What else would he have been? We didn’t see any non-humans in the book? I must have missed something.
But overall I enjoyed it quite a bit. Not sure right now if I’ll go on to the others. Already have a huge tbr:)
I think by “human,” the Bene Gesserit mean a person who is awakened, who lives above the level of a beast. So, you could insert “fully human” there, I suppose. I didn’t notice any hanging threads other than stuff I would expect Herbert to pick up in the next books (like what Alia is going to be!), but maybe that’s what you were picking up on. I do think Paul’s vision of the bloody future is not fully explained (the jihad), but maybe that’s what the subsequent books will reveal. I’m by no means an expert since I’ve read only the first book. I’m glad you enjoyed the read overall. Cheers!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy maybe less hanging threads and more just wanting or expecting certain scenes to be more fully realized later on. Like the Baron/Hawatt conversation in his chambers. There seemed to be so much scheming and hidden plots that never really bore fruit. Not fully at least. Was expecting that, in particular, to become a bigger part of the story.
@@mmurphy3608 Got it. Yes, compared to villains in a lot of modern genre fiction, the Harkonnens are pretty underdeveloped with not a lot of page time. I think it’s one facet of Dune that shows its age.
Some may wish to know that a prequel to Dune was written by Frank Herbert's son, Brian, along with Kevin Anderson. It's entitled "Dune: House Atreides." I personally don't find the writing to be on a par with Frank Herbert's writing, but it is certainly readable.
Thanks for the recommendation! I have a lot of reading to do to catch up with you in the Dune series, but I do love this first book!
Great review, I love the HDR format.
Thanks! It’s amazing what you can do with an iPhone!
Fabulous as always Philip, thank you for your thoughts
Thank you, Derri! I really enjoyed the reread, and now I feel ready for the film!
I really enjoyed dune can't wait to watch the movie I'm also continuing with the other books will be reading children of dune in October 👍📖📚🎃
I hope to follow your example by reading further in the series - at least the next three books. Here’s to hoping we love the film!
Great discussion here!
Thank you, Jeremy!
Haha I last read this in '95, college freshman year. Until my reread this month. I enjoyed the reread a lot more, and realised how influential this sci-fi book is on the fantasy genre. Wheel of Time in particular, Song of Ice and Fire, and as you mention, Malazan as well. Also didn't remember there were so many Islamic / Arabic phrases scattered all throughout the book. Hope the movie does it proper justice!
It’s interesting, but I noticed the Arabic the first time. This time, I noticed also that many of the words seem to have a South Asian inspiration (Sanskrit derived) as well. I noticed this because I speak Nepali (and understand some Hindi words) now, and thirty years ago I didn’t. For me too it got even better on the reread. Cheers, Farhad!
I am reading it again after about 20 years in preparation for the movie. I actually think anyone reading the book for the first time shouldn't avoid spoilers. I enjoy it more knowing the overall story, plots, and backgrounds of all the characters. At least in the first 4 books. Going in blind a lot of it is confusing as hell. I also feel like Frank Herbert was great at world building but not the best at story telling.Still a series I really enjoyed growing up and I hope the movie can make up for some of the novels short comings.
I plan to read at least the next three books in the series. After that, we’ll see since even fans have told me the quality tapers off at that point. As for the film, I have high hopes right now. Thanks for watching and commenting!
Great review. I think Dune proper is one of the best books ever written. I think after he got a bit too tied to his meta-narrative, especially Book 3 and following. So I don't put those works on the same pedestal. But for a one-shot, no story holds me as thoroughly as Dune. And it is a complete story in itself. If not the full history of his universe.
And the Anniversary Edition is simply gorgeous.
Thanks, Shawn! Yes, I should replace my old edition, which is missing its dust jacket, with one of those fancy new ones. I’ll eventually read further in the series, perhaps the first four books.
Made it just in time before the bell. Here, Dr. Chade
I have you marked present in the grade book!
I've just finished reading the original series and so next up is for me to move on to the Brian Herbert books!
Very cool! I’m not sure I’ll ever get to the Brian Herbert books, but I do hope to read at least three more in the series.
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy Good call 'cause that's when they peaked for me! And then five and six were just okay!
@@danecobain That seems to be the consensus among the Dune fans I know. I do look forward to the next three, though.
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy Lots to look forward to!
I would suggest reading Hunters and then Sandworms first. Since I read the Anderson/Herbert books as they were published, I was kind of burned out by the time I read those.
I would be interested to see where you would rate Leto II in God Emperor on your flat to round character scale.
I hope to find out!
Great review Philip. I have 200 pages to go. I'm thoroughly enjoying it! Hopefully, the movie can match the quality of the book.
I admit I’m excited for the movie, but I’m trying not to let my expectations soar too high. Enjoy those last 200 pages, Brendan!
I like, that you are mentioning the different use of characters in opposite to postmodern literature. In my opinion the characters in Dune are not there to serve the immersion als usually, but much more serve the theming of the story. In contrast the immersion is mainly build through the planet itself. With sand, dryness, the sandworms and the general emptyness it has sometimes much more of a unique character than the actual human beings.
mild spoiler:
At some point they discuss the possibilty of terraforming the planet into a humid and green enviroment, and i felt almost offended by that... XD It felt for me as if they were talking about the future of a person who is not there to defend himself...
I´m not sure if you can see where i´m coming from.... XD
Well said! I agree with you that the characters in Dune serve the themes, whereas in much modern genre fiction, characters are paramount. Altering Arrakis to a greener place would certainly change its character. I think they were planning to change only parts of it, but still.
Great video. Could you explain the 'transcend our tribalism' bit? I haven't read the book yet so I may not get it without context but that phrase was a bit unclear to me. Thank you.
My pleasure! By tribalism, I mean absolute loyalty to one’s perceived “in-group” while mistrusting and even hating anyone or anything outside it as a threat. So, transcending our tribalism would mean understanding and embracing our commonality with those we perceive as “others”. You could see it as an expansion of the in-group from “people like me” to all people, or even all creatures. It’s an expansion of consciousness and an awareness of connection.
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy ahhh I get it now, thank you! makes sense :)
Political Intrigue? Try The Wars of The Roses, often cited as the original ASOIAF, where paranoia certainly aided survival against 'political' opponents and dropping one's guard could have brutal consequences.
I note you comments of the separation of child and parents at a point in the growing of the child. That observation is most likely to made by someone who , like yourself, is a parent. I always think that is a leaving that affects the parents more than the child, who may or may not be grateful for what his/her parents have done for them so far and of course, with later maturity will appreciate more fully the parental love, for good or bad.
I must admit I still like the David Lynch film. Yes, it was of its time, but the sets and costumes captured much of the baroque feeling of the book, Sting gave a wonderfully performance both impish and malevolent plus there is a section of music by Brian Eno, The Prophecy Theme, which is breathtakingly beautiful, especially in its full form (its on YT).
I bought a copy of the recent hardback with the stunning turquoise/golden cover, which finally has a decent map in it (refreshed from the original) although I already have several copies of Dune from the old NEL paperbacks to the Gollancz SF Masterworks edition. I have loved this book since my first copy about 50 years ago. I have read some of the Brian Herbert Kevin Anderson books, which are not without flaws but do provide great background to where Dune begins.
Great review, Philip. No, awesome review. You packed a lot into so few minutes. Thank you so much!
Thank you, Neil! It sounds like Dune has a special place in your heart. That being the case, I’m glad you enjoyed my review. I intend to read at least the next three books in the series at some point, though next year would be the earliest. I hope this latest film will be worthy of the book. It’s been a very long time since I saw the version with Sting - since the 80s, in fact, but I remember it making an impression. Cheers!
Mr. Philip please share your goodreads, If you don't have, please create one.
Thank you, Raul! I’m not on Goodreads yet, but perhaps someday. One social media platform at a time for this old dog who is trying to learn new tricks!
Any plans on continuing into Messiah? It's only around 250 pages, and I read it in 3 days even though I'm a slow reader! It absolutely floored me. When it initially came out it was critically panned, but I think it's only become more relevant. It's not what you'd expect from a sequel to Dune, it doesn't really feel like its own book. Instead, it reads like an extended epilogue to the first book, and feels like the true ending Herbert wanted. Apparently, Villeneuve wants to adapt Messiah, and have a trilogy of movies.
I will most definitely read Dune Messiah at some point. I’d like to read at least the first four books. I’m not sure when exactly, but next year for sure. Cheers!
This was a great review!
Thank you, Jaime!
Sorry Philip, this is like my 3rd comment on today's video - but thoughts on reading the sequels? I know you do primarily fantasy books on the channel, but I've heard the sequels are fantastic to wanted to get your take on it.
No worries, Chirag - I’m always happy to hear from you! In regard to the sequels, I intend to read the first four books in the series eventually, though not likely this year. I’ve heard the quality drops after that, but if I really like the next three, I might even read further.
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy ahh yes, I have also heard Book 4 is the best book in the series, and then it drops off a little. Maybe I can also join you if you do read the sequels next year or something :) Always a pleasure to speak to you Philip.
@@Nxrth2001 Likewise!
Great review of a great book! We're all eager to see what the master Denis Villeneuve delivers this time. He's yet to make a film that wasn't exceptional in my opinion.
Thanks! I’m somewhat surprised to find myself not just optimistic but enthusiastic about the film. We shall see in less than a month!
Great review video! 📖🍁🎬📽
Thank you, Safina!
An excellent review of an excellent book !
Thank you, DJ! It was fantastic to return to Dune after so long.
Hi! May I ask which edition of the book are you holding on the thumbnail for this video?
I never had the dust jacket since it was given to me by a friend, but it was the hardcover produced by Ace Books in 1999. I wish I knew what the dust jacket looked like!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy Oh I see, thanks for the info!
@@250frederic My pleasure!
I just finished my first read of Dune last month. I love your review and the discussion you four had. I’m hope to re-read Dune as well as the rest of Frank Hurbert’s Dune works next year.
Sounds like you enjoyed Dune! I too hope to continue reading further in the series next year. I’m happy you enjoyed the review and the discussion, Brady!
great review Philip, are you going to continue with the series?
Thanks, Larry! Eventually, I want to read at least the first four Dune books. Are you a fan of the series?
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy i'm very fond of it, but at the same time i have mixed feelings about it and im not the biggest fan of herberts writing style, i ended up dnfing the series at book 4
@@LarryHasOpinions Based on what I’ve heard, I intend to read through book four but no further. I won’t let my expectations soar too high!
IMO, God Emperor is the worst. If you can make it past that, there is no reason not to read the rest. But stopping after Children is probably a good spot.
I'm reading this now and really like it. Scifi esp the kind in space really doesn't interest me.
I love your reviews!!
Thank you! I’m not extremely well read in science fiction, but Dune is one that seems like a natural fit for me. I hope you’ll continue to enjoy it!
There is tons of sci-fi "in space" that is awesome. But there is also a lot of it that has little or nothing to do with space that is equally awesome.
@@Rogue_VI yes, I'm gradually discovering some of those.
@@Thecatladybooknook_PennyD One of those awesome books that mostly does not take place in space (but DOES involve an interstellar war that has been raging off and on for ten thousand years) is In Conquest Born by C.S. Friedman. It was her first book and is still one of her best (she writes fantasy, too). It was huge and epic all in one book. Seriously, it's great. The sequel... not so much.
@@Rogue_VI thanks! I'll check that one out
I loved the books, all six of them plus Dune Encyclopedia. Wont touch the son's added material. The film was very good, had great time watching it both times. I kind of want to reread the book again because of the marketing surrounding the film
I haven’t heard anyone wholeheartedly endorse the son’s contributions to the series. I’m committed to reading at least the first four Dune books at some point, perhaps next year, and then we’ll see. I’m excited to see the film when it arrives here!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy I hope you like the other books. The series became my favorite book series along with Brian Aldiss' Helliconia trilogy. Read the books last year during the pandemic lockdowns and layoffs.
@@PS-it1dm Based on Dune, I’d be shocked if I didn’t enjoy the next books. Cheers!
Long live the fighters!!!!
This book really suits your channel - the best of fantasy. ;-)
Btw, I read the book in my teens a long time ago, and reread it this year. Contrary to you, my opinion has changed a lot, i.e. I don't find it that good a book - unfortunately. Messiah, blue blood, chosen one, strange geneology fetish (= eugenics) are some reasons why I nowadays dislike the book. And the less I hear about how someones family/clan characterises a person, the better. There doesn't seem to be any room for individuality at all?
Ha ha! Yes, Dune is a fine example of how science fiction can use some of the same tropes as fantasy. It’s interesting to read your comment because I just had a discussion on the Chosen One trope on my channel with A.P. Canavan, and Dune came up. I think Herbert actually complicates the trope and even subverts it in some important ways, for example by having the “prophecy” be something seeded by the Bene Gesserit. And Paul seems keenly aware of not so much his heroism but the destructive potential behind the worship of him. At least that’s how I read it, but I welcome other views. Thanks for the excellent comment!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy You are right in everything you say about e.g. the "prophecy" being planted, and I find that to hold up in the first book. Unfortunately, everything is later changed with the golden path, genetic memory etcetera. Thus, imo the further the series progresses, the worse some traits become.
Therefore, I have to admit that my current enjoyment of the first book is "somewhat" undermined by its sequels...
@@toinenosoite3173 Ah, that explains it. I’ve read only the first book, so I wasn’t aware of that direction. It does sound potentially problematic. Thanks for the heads up!
Dune i read twice - will suggest reread of wheel of time - i will reread until i reach 42 rereads - see what i did where
Wheel of Time is a series most definitely worth rereading, though 42 times might be a record! I’ll be rereading myself eventually, and I hope the show will bring lots of new readers to the series. Cheers, Ben!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy 42 for Hitchikers i hope obviously
@@benbutler9282 Yes - 42 being there meaning of life! The meaning of life is somewhere in WoT, right? Well, at the very least, it’ll help us along the way. 😁
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy please dont feel need to reply but thank you for reply and hope you enjoy the fish
The only part I didn't like at all from the book is the dinner scene. IMO the dinner dragged the whole book down to a crawl. Other than that an amazing book.
Sounds like you mostly enjoyed it, which is great. The book flew by for me! I wonder how the filmmakers will handle the dinner scene? Thanks for watching and commenting!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy I am currently halfway through Children of Dune and have enjoyed both Dune Messiah and CoD. I've read that God Emperor of Dune is where shit gets really weird.
@@bangslamwham88 That agrees with what I’ve heard, which is why I intend to read the first four books in the series.
"modern fantasy readers"
"modern fantasy and science fiction"
Are modern fantasy readers, reading only books from the modern era? And are modern era books narrowly conforming to niche, micro-era stylized, writing structures? That is such a strange thought to me.
Almost every reader I know has engaged (at least a little) in a more "time buffet" method of reading. Where readers can skip around genres, authors, niches, eras, etc. to check out different books that end up on their personal radar. Sure, many will get stuck into some niche genre or auhor rabbit hole, but eventually they'll periodically wander out to nibble on some things outside that box.
One hopes so! And yet, there are styles and trends that are more characteristic of one era or another. In my experience, there are some people who grow up reading during a certain time and maintain a preference for the trends common during that time. I’ve met people who dislike fantasy after the 1980s, for example. There are even some people who stick to one particular series. But I agree that reading widely is the best way to get the most out your reading life. After all, I’m a medievalist in my day job!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy
Interesting.
I get this notion of figurative Book Collies. Changing in makeup and shape over time and distance. Herding different generations and tribes of readers onto different literary paths and journeys.
I suppose there is always public signposts that influence our momentum and direction. Always some form of tide to drift on, or some pointy stick to jab us onto a course.
Hopefully someone maps out this literate diaspora. Probably be a great tool for authors to chart out their path of conquest. Or for readers to translate their book conversations into pidgin, for interactions with other tribes.
Love the connections in Dune to Asimov’s Foundation and Lean’s Lawrence of Arabia. The Feud between the Feudal House and the Emperor is a great predecessor to “the Game of Thrones” indeed! And Herbert’s critique of various forms of charismatic leaders people follow because of who they are, rather then what they do, is timeless!
The new Dune-movie should be watch on the biggest screen you can, epic and subtle as only Villeneuve can today! I give it 5/5 Bagpipes! Also saw the first Foundation episode on Apple+, which was gorgeous seems to do justice to the dilemmas and expand somewhat upon the characters of the sources material, so I give it a high 4/5 Space Elevators!
There is some poetic justice in both Foundation and Dune getting such high end adaptations within a month!
I would also mention that Princess Irulan is most likely inspired by Princess Anna Komnena of the Byzantine Empire, who wrote the “Alexiad” about her father Alexos I Komenos. As such, she is often called the first female historian in Western Civilization!
Very cool to learn about Princess Anna Komnena being an inspiration for Irulan - thank you! The more I hear about the Dune film, the more excited I get. The praise I’m hearing isn’t quite universal, but very close to it. Nevertheless, I’ll try not to let my expectations soar too high even as I secretly hope for an instant classic. Cheers!
💫💫💫💜
Thank you, and may you have a wonderful day!
Phillip you seem like a smart man and you should be old enough to know better. There’s too many books and not enough time. We can’t waste any time on rereads!
You’re absolutely right, and yet somehow I can’t help it. I won’t even tell you how many times I’ve read Lord of the Rings! 😁
I read this novel a few years ago and I did not find it entertaining and even found it hard to be provoked to thought by the text. This one flopped for me hard. It just doesnt have what I look for in a book, I guess.
You’re definitely not alone in your negative experience of Dune. Since I know nothing about your age and next to nothing about your usual reading tastes, this is not directed at you, but I have the feeling that Dune could be slow in pace or even boring to people who are used to modern genre fiction, which tends to have more physical action on the page. Even if that’s not the reason why it flopped for you, the truth is there’s no book that works for everyone, and there’s nothing wrong with not loving Dune.