Frank Herbert's Dune Novels Reviews and Rankings | Spoiler Free
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- Опубликовано: 9 окт 2021
- Here is my ranking of the 6 Dune novels by Frank Herbert! I've reviewed them in reverse order of my preference, from 6th favorite to favorite, and have time stamps below, including whether or not I'll read Brian Herbert's contributions to the saga (in the "Reading Advice" section at the end)
Things I love about all of them 1:26
#6 3:36
#5 9:16
#4 11:11
#3 14:11
#2 17:27
#1 20:05
Reading Advice 21:28
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Dune Messiah was one of the best reading experiences I've ever had...
A terrible book I really struggled to get through. A constant dream sequence that was lazy, had no character building and the story had just one climactic event. Wish I could take my time back.
Halfway through and while Dune is the better book overall, I’m finding Dune Messiah much more compelling.
@@vtmuslim I think that's a rather harsh way of approaching the book. In my (and a lot of other's) opinions Messiah was a perfect sequel to dune, serving almost like an epilogue after the climax in the first book (probably because it was meant to be in the first book). While I respect your opinion I don't think it needs to be labelled as 'terrible'. This book left me amazed to say the least.
I really struggled with the first one. Just the same super hero trope you nowadays see over and over everywhere. Dune Messiah was so much better. It was a mind bending experience for me.
@@vtmuslima terrible opinion, i really struggled to get through. Constant non sensical comments and deliberate misinterpretations. Wish i could take my time back.
I'm currently reading children of dune. Loving this series, the first 2 books were astounding. So far children of dune isn't as incredible as the first two, but still really solid. I loved how messiah deconstructed the hero myth though, that whole book was so so intriguing.
Enjoy the ride! The more I think about these books, the more I appreciate how different each book really is. Thanks for watching!
As someone who has a similar opinion of the first 3, with Messiah actually being one of my favorites, if you find God Emperor… difficult… to get through, don’t get discouraged. The last 2 are fantastic.
@@mkv2718 I have finished God emperor at this point. Taking a break before i continue. Really love the entire world and the themes at play. Ranking so far is 4. Children of Dune 3. God emperor of Dune 2. Dune messiah 1. Dune. ... I have actually begun re reading the first book and its just too good. Not easily topped. I enjoyed God emperor but I don't agree with anyone that says it's the best of the series. Messiah did what God emperor tried to do.. but did it better and more succinct.
@@MrLiamdude5I agree with you. Dune Messiah is criminally underrated. The deconstruction of Paul showing his many flaws and the long lasting negative repercussions of his actions was done so well. I think FH was trying to tell us not to idolize leaders to the point where we see them as perfect (god).
By the time children of dune was over, I liked it more than messiah, and God emperor dune I liked better than children of dune lol. I'm going to take a break before I finish as well, but I think you'll like children more before it's over
I’ve read every single Dune book, Frank’s, and Brian’s, multiple times. I’ve been reading them, as they came out, since 1965. To me, Frank Herbert is a prophet and a world-builder par excelance. Denis did an exquisite job with the adaptation. I am a die-hard Dune-itic
Glad to hear from a "diehard Dune-itic!" I was certainly impressed with Frank's books, although I'll likely not continue into the books Brian and Kevin wrote. Thanks for watching the video - I hope my newbie rankings and observations held up to a veteran Dune reader!
@@RedFuryBooks I really appreciate your review. My oldest daughter, my youngest sister, and I are establishing our youtube channel- it's currently called "The W.O.D. Squad because we write together however, our youtube content is from "The Blerd Sisterhood of Arrakis'. Check us out! It's rough as we have absolutely no idea what we're doing, we're just doing! We're all Duneitics over here! We would appreciate any hints, comments, etc., and would be soooo grateful for the support! By the way, I do have some disagreements and some absolute agreements and I love to hear all takes on the books, even those that are not in tune with mine! Thank you again and remember - "The spice must flow"
It's funny cause im pretty sure the whole point of Herbert's work was that we stop calling people prophets anymore 😂
Can you please tell me how you feel about Hunters of Dune and Sandworms of Dune considering they’re the conclusion to the original series.
I haven't gotten to the final two in the series but Dune is my favorite book of all time. I've read that bloody thing eight times now.
Wow! I've never read anything more than 3 times! Dune twice though.
God Emperor of Dune is giving the original a run for its money on my favorites list. I’ve enjoyed every book so much up to this point as I am now nearly finished with the fourth entry. I have both books five and six so I will finish Frank’s own writings but will call it quits there myself. Thanks for the video!
It's so good! I have God Emperor second in my ranking, but a lot of people I've seen like it best. Thanks for stopping by the channel!
I just finished reading Dune and Dune Messiah back to back. I of course love the original, however I was at first underwhelmed by the Messiah. But the deeper I got into it the more I liked it. I specifically liked Paul and Chani's relationship. I found it awesome how Herbert developed it with the confliction of love and political gain. I really like Paul's struggle with that subject.
Very interesting - I honestly hadn't focused too much on the relationship dynamics between Paul and Chani, but will have to look for that next time.
I really enjoyed heretics and chapterhouse - I didn't mind the pace and it added a lot of depth to the BG. I enjoyed that it seemed like the more we knew the less we knew.
That's a good point - Herbert layers his works so much that the more he reveals, the more he makes you question what you think you know. I love that aspect of his storytelling and worldbuilding.
The last two books are necessary to break the cycle of stagnation. They are the fulfilment of the Golden Path. I really wish we got the last one.
Just started reading Dune after I saw the movie. Very impressed so far, so much depth.
This review and ranking video is very well made. You explain it very well and you gave me a good impression on what to expect of all the books.
Cheers!
Thank you for watching and the kind words about the video. Enjoy the books!
I highly appreciate it when RUclipsrs timestamp the different sections of there video. Thank you
Happy to help!
The bit you said about the epigraphs in God Emperor made me laugh out loud cause it’s spot on. I‘d find myself reading one, not really understanding it, rereading it and going “Woah”, then going through one last time cause I found it so thought provoking.
I know, right?
There was one time I read the epigraph 4 times then just made an astonished exhalation and closed it and rubbed my head. My wife was baffled at how I could read for 60 seconds and need to close my book!
Josh, love your channel! Just started reading the series! -Palmer
My thanks to you, old friend! I hope you enjoy Dune as much as I did and glad you like my channel! :)
Not to be too dull but my rankings are exactly the same as yours! I hadn't thought about the reading advice ( 1, stop and read 2 and 3 and then after a pause read 4) but I completely agree. Great reviews, enjoyed very much
We'll be dull together LOL. Glad you enjoyed the ranking!
you're the best book reviewer, man, thanks.
Wow, thanks!
A bit late to the video, but this video is fantastic! Cheers man! I've read Dune before, but I'm due to read the rest of the series.
Thank you! I hope you enjoy the series!
Wholeheartedly agree with you about how thought provoking Dune messiah is. I read it a year ago and there’s been a day where I haven’t been lost contemplating it’s many sad and moving ideas.
Outside of flip flopping the ranking of # 3 & 4 I totally agree with both your ranking and commentary. With the exception of the first Brian Herbert prequel "House Atreides" I have not read any of Herbert and Anderson's books.
Thanks for watching and commenting - glad my ratings are similar!
Absolutely 100% recommend Brian Herbert and Kevin J Anderson’s novels. I read the Machine War trilogy and am currently reading Sisterhood of Dune and House Atreides at the same time. Like his father, Brian Herbert is very to the point, he doesn’t waste words
I haven't 100% ruled them out - I may pick up Hunters and Sandworms to finish Frank's story at some point. Just no plans to do so at this point. But thanks for commenting - I knew there were people out there that really enjoy these books!
@@RedFuryBooks The funny thing with the Herbert/Anderson books is that in order to fully understand their Hunters/Sandworms of Dune books that finish off the trilogy, you need to finish their “prelude to dune” trilogy and the “butlarian jihad” trilogy. They wrote these 6 books first, and Hunters and Sandworms of Dune reference and talk a ton about characters and events from these 6 books. Also, I think this is another reason why the BH/KJA books are so divisive lol. For what it’s worth, I think their OK. It’s more straightforward “sci-fi” than Frank’s books, but I’m able to separate the two and I admit I think it’s fun to be in that world some more.
@@samd2013 yeah, being in the world would definitely be the biggest draw! Even with a different author(s).
Interesting.
I just finished Dune Messiah yesterday, and was delighted to have enjoyed it so much, as I had heard many people say it was their least favorite.
Similarly, a friend of mine the other day told me Heretics of Dune was his favorite, and now I see that you believe it to be the weakest one.
It really shows the versatility of the series and the fanbase. I’m gonna read some other stuff for the time being but am excited to read Children of Dune this year!
It's funny but months (maybe a year?) later, and I almost see Dune Messiah and Children of Dune as one book. But yes, you are correct in these books; so many people have different preferences, because they all have so much thematic depth that we all connect differently. I hope you continue to enjoy the series!
I’m almost halfway through children of dune and it’s starting to really pick up. I feel like Messiah was so different from the original Dune but now reading the third entry I understand it’s place in the series. I saw the movie and was blown away so I jumped on the book bandwagon. I’m excited to see what the rest of the series has to bring
Yes, Dune Messiah is definitely a jarring transition from the original. Hope you enjoy the rest of the series!
Lovely video. I'm curious to hear more about the character you mention in the Children of Dune section of this video. Have you talked about this anywhere else?
Im glad you enjoyed the video! I would think the only other time I talked about that character in Children of Dune would have been the monthly wrap-up that month. So if you want to find my May, 2022 book wrap-up, I may have talked about her there!
Just finished Dune Messiah and I completely agree.. I would LOVE to see the ending on the big screen!!
Right?! I had heard at one point that Denis Villeneuve wants to film Dune Messiah, so I hope that rumor is true - it would be so epic.
Oh man, I hope that rumor is true!
I loved your honesty in your review! I also agree with your rankings. Not a huge fan of heretics of dune. I have read all of the extended dune universe books and have to say that I like them - separate from the original series. I didn’t go into reading them thinking they would be on the same level as Herberts writings - which helped allow me to enjoy them for the literary works that they are. Do I love them? For science fictions novels, yes - for a continuation of the dune saga, no. Dune is my favorite though - top 5 in my list of favorites- have read it many times.
Thank you for your perspective on the Dune expanded universe. That seems like a great way to enjoy them more - separate them entirely from Frank Herbert's originals. Thanks for your comment and glad you enjoyed the review!
Just today I've completed children of Dune and boy, I couldn't put it down!
I started with the first one on Jan, messiah on Feb, and Children on Mar.
I was on the fence about getting the other three, but I think I'll take a break now (I'll read the Dark Matter saga) and maybe I'll get the six book collection for my birthday haha. Thank you!👍
Thanks for commenting and glad you are enjoying them! Dark Matter is pretty great and a nice change of pace, as that's more of a sci-fi thriller than hardcover sci-fi like Frank Herbert.
Thank you for your honest oppinion and the following arguments! I feel sometimes I am the only reader who liked "The Heretics" most, but there is a book for everyone it seems. Every Dune book still touches me in some incredible way. I actually read it not as a typical "science fiction" and exactly as a anti-epic anti-Lordoftherings story and that it is all about, all the following books are anti-heroic.
Dune is about thoughts. I think even the whole plot comes at second place. What I am thinking in the moment? What are you thinking? What I am thinking that you are thinking in the moment? What I am trying to give you the wrong impression of what I am thinking so that I can blind your expectation? The scene that gives you this feeling is the Banquet scene from the original book, but you can feel it everywhere else. Herbert is not interested to present you the characters in a strong way or to send them away in a good fashion. Gurney dissapeared just like that. Paul too. And we have to accept that. Their thoughts remain as legacy.
My favorite scene? It is from Dune Messiah, where the Reverend Mother enters in the huge castle where Paul and his fedaykins are expecting her. Damn I was waiting for this scene to happen after reading almost 1000 pages from the very first begining of the original book.
Now I will see your Hyperion review cause this is the other sci-fi serries that caught me most.
That's a very valid point. I do love that depth of thought that Herbert creates. And the banquet scene is definitely a favorite. (In fact, it's one of those scenes where I wonder why everyone doesn't love it like I do.)
Wow gotta try it sometime😊
Thanks, Im reading the original Dune for the first time.. The movie was a trigger, not gonna lie :)
so far it is very good, Im not sure if seeing the movie lessen my experience or enhanced it because
In my opinion the movie did a great job..
Thanks for the review keep it up
Glad you enjoyed the review! One of the things that impressed me most about the movie is how well I think they did in truly representing the book, so I suspect that you'll really love the book if you did the movie. It's a masterful work. Thanks for watching and the comment and enjoy the book!
@@RedFuryBooks exactly my thoughts so far in :)
I'm almost through the sixth book now and I gotta say my by far least favorite book was Godemperor of Dune and honestly I believe it's because I'm just not sophisticated enough xD. I found myself reading paragraphs like the epigraphs at the chapter beginnings and not understanding any of it. Everything I did get was the story which itself, without all the philosophical stuff, wasn't too dense. I'm utterly convinced I'm gonna like this book a lot more on a second read though
God Emperor is definitely a lot more dense than the others. I'm definitely looking forward to the second go-around with that one.
Great review! I also disliked Heretics of Dune on first read but just recently did a second pass and I found it much more enjoyable. Miles Teg is one of my favorite Dune characters and I also found it a pretty ballsy move to destroy Rakis at the end (despite happening off page lol that's Herbert for ya)
My ranking would go
1. Tie between Dune/God Emperor
2. Dune Messiah
3. Heretics of Dune
4. Chapterhouse
5. Children
Thanks for the comment! I did enjoy Miles Teg, but found the end of his story was rushed (and skipped over) just when things were getting interesting. I sometimes wish some of these great authors like Herbert, Robert Jordan, etc., would have had a strong editor to tell them when things aren't going well. (Like the pacing of Heretics).
Miles Teg is a badass
Could not agree more with this ranking. Well put, all around.
Thank you!
Amazing review! If I may ask, who's the character that you thought was done badly in children of dune? I'm thinking either Alia or Stilgar. My biggest gripe with that book was that I had no clue what Jessica was doing, although I honestly never really knew what she was up to.
Yes, it was Alia that I felt Herbert did wrong. Since she had all the Bene Gesserit knowledge from birth, the abrupt change of her character I felt quite jarring. She was such a strange, but delightful character in the original novel. Glad you enjoyed the review!
@@RedFuryBooks I think puberty was the end for Alia, though she was essentially cursed from the start. It wasn't just Bene Geserit knowledge she possessed, but the memories and personalities of every human being in her lineage back to the dawn of man. She tried desperately to maintain a self in spite of all the people inside her mind, but it became way too much for her as she transitioned into adulthood, the Baron offering her a way out; this being the 'Abomination' the Bene Geserit fear. I was incredibly sad for her, but I none the less enjoyed her transformation, and found some of her private scenes with only the Baron for 'comfort' quite poignant and tragic.
@@justinsherman9350 thank you for the insight. You appear to know this material much more than me, so I appreciate the comment. I'll definitely consider this when I do a reread - it may change my thoughts on what I initially felt was a betrayal of that character. So thank you!
@@RedFuryBooks sure thing! I just adore this strange new world in which everyone's discussing my all-time favorite sci-fi series with such enthusiasm.
@@justinsherman9350 that's kind of how I feel about Wheel of Time right now!
Hey could you make a review of 2 stunningly beautiful Dune art books:
1. Wojciech Siudmak, Fantastic worlds (best Dune sketches ever! - they inspired Denis Villeneuve movie).
2. The Art and Soul of Dune, Tanya Lapointe.
Thanks for the suggestion! I did love the art concept of the movie so it would be fun to see the originals.
I just ordered all of these novels from amazon. I can’t wait to get it in next week or so
Awesome! I hope you enjoy the series as I did!
Love the shirt
Love your lost shirt
Thanks!
Definitely will keep reading the first four books in mind when I eventually get to reading them.
While a shame Herbert wasn’t able to finish his second trilogy like he probably wanted, at least he had a legacy of good books.
I agree on both points. I really wish Herbert had finished his story.
Great video! Was disappointed that you spoiled some of hunters of dune though :(
Glad you liked the video! Not sure how I spoiled some of Hunters of Dune, though (I haven't read beyond the synopsis on the back cover), but my apologies!
Duuuude I have (will have) the exact same Dune collection! 🤣, I also thought it would be cool to have that awesome edition for the first book and then the small paperback editions for the rest of the series. Currently I’m finishing the Silmarillion but after that I’ll jump into the Dune train
I of course would love 6 matching hardbacks, but figured this was the best available option. I hope you enjoy them!
I have the exact same collection and three different version of hard copies lol 🤣🤣
@@samuelramirez2638 do you have the Folio Society hardcover? That one is gorgeous!
@@RedFuryBooks yes I definetley do! I occasionally from time to time take it out of its casing to admire it and look through the works of art in it. The paper just feels very fine and the picture itself feel like a painting although I know its a printing the way they did it is just rich! Worth the bucks I payed for it
@@samuelramirez2638 I bought my first Folio Society book a few months ago and am very impressed. Perhaps even more than my Easton Press leather bounds!
Have read through the series 4-5 times, and Heretics consistently comes out as #2 for me. It has a great new cast of characters, a new generation of Bene Gesserit, and their new nemesis HM from the scattering, tons of mysticism and obscure new technology from the scattering, some of the best action in the series, a new order on Arrakis and the return of a new type Sandworm, and new versions of old locations, all while doing a great job of existing in the same world and linking back to the first 4 books. It has it all.
Thanks for chiming in - I always appreciate the perspective of people that have read the series multiple times. Is Dune still your #1? Just curious.
@@RedFuryBooks Yep! Personal ranking is Dune, Heretics, God Emperor, Children, Chapterhouse, Messiah
@@silviangc8486 I finished these for the first time last year, but I have to say that God Emperor is the one that I think about most. A week doesn’t go by that I don’t think about something in that book!
I’m reading the series for the first time and I’m currently reading Children Of Dune, I think I might take your advice about stopping at God Emperor of Dune at least for now. I absolutely loved Dune, who wouldn’t though. I also think I may have liked Dune Messiah more than you appeared to, it was brilliant and had my philosophical wheels turning the whole way through.
You know, the further I get away from finishing Dune Messiah, the more I think about it. Definitely enjoyed it, and that has grown. Thanks for chiming in here and hope you love God Emperor!
I’m reading the first one and it has blown my mind and first to enjoying reading a science fiction book.
Glad you're enjoying it! I think it is so well-written and has such universal themes that it appeals to science fiction readers and nonreaders alike. Such a masterpiece!
Currently rereading Dune again before the movie, and I'm a lot more excited than i ever was to read further
Awesome! I wish I had time for a reread myself!
Interesting. My favorite of the set is actually Chapterhouse, the rest do change position depending on my mood, but more or less are inline with the order listed in the video. I read the Brian prequels not the continuation and although many people call them bad fan-fiction, I personally think of them as OK fan-fiction, but Frank was a genius and they were never going to compete anyway.
Good to know that some people have enjoyed Brian's contributions to the Dune universe!
Excellent stuff. Probly saved me a few hours of my life. 😆
HA! Glad I could help! :)
i am at page 207 of Messiah and i am in love with this final act, dont understand people who find it boring.
The Stone Burner scene is probably the best in the entire series ngl
Before anything I have to say I really enjoyed your insights and they actually helped me realize certain reasons why I didn't or did like certain books in the series. I think this was a brilliant ranking with attention to detail and I enjoyed how you broke down your analysis into 3 main categories. I agree with you on almost all of your rankings except that for me God Emperor of Dune was my favorite of the series and the original was a close second.
Personally I did not enjoy the first 1/3 of God Emperor too much if I'm being honest but the last act of that book for me is one of the best stretches of literature I have ever read. The way Leto's "Golden Path" is finally revealed, how this hulking monolith of a freak (for lack of a better word atm) shows us his more tender side (his relationship with Hwi, providing Siona with warmth and sanctuary in the desert despite seeming like an apathetic, objective judge of her trial) and in doing so reveals to us how tragic his sacrifice truly is. This is the only instance in which I would disagree with you as far as Herbert being a not so great character-building author. I thought Leto II in his 3500 years of rule became one of the richest and most compelling characters I've ever read. Beneath his cold, omniscient exterior that comes with possessing millennia of past and current knowledge he cannot escape being human after all. His grief when Hwi goes down with him accentuates this so well and his demise reveals that the worm has fully gone away and at the core all that remains is a human being with very real human emotion.
Apologies for writing you an additional novel to read lol but wanted to share my thoughts. Fantastic ranking and insight. Cheers!
No need to apologize for the detailed comments - this is one of the main reasons I keep maintaining this small booktube channel: I love the interaction with fellow readers! Your analysis is truly great, and reinforced for me one thing that I mentioned in the video, that the book I most want to reread in this series is God Emperor. I'm aware of the fact that I didn't grasp everything because it truly is a dense, philosophy-laden text. But your point about character is very true here as well. Herbert did his best job at character in this book, I think mostly because he kept to 3 or 4 main characters and gave them more depth than he did in his other books. Thanks for the great moments and watching the video - I'm glad you enjoyed it!
Love the dharma shirt reference.
just finished the first book for the first time, was unsure whether to go for messiah as I'd heard mixed things but I've decided to take the plunge, let's see how it goes!
I hope you enjoy it!
@@RedFuryBooks thankyou, your video was super good btw, om planning on following your reading plan. ie. up to god emperor
@@sama2086 Thanks! I hope you enjoy the rest of the books!
I'm thinking about getting the bundle of the first 6, my dad's always been interested in it and I've had a peeking interest in it as I've started reading into deeper lore in Star Wars and I really love The Kingkiller Chronicles by Patrick Rothfuss-can't wait for doors of stone.
I wonder tho are the Brian Herbert novels worth reading as well? I can't find a definitive answer to that anywhere else.
Also why do you think it's been so difficult for Hollywood to adapt Dune into a movie? And why don't they just make it into a TV series?
I’ve heard mixed reviews about the Brian Herbert novels but can’t speak from experience. It’s seems they are more action oriented and more straightforward than his father’s more cerebral and philosophical approach.
the Brian books are different for sure, but i liked most of the ones i've read. Sandworms is imo the best he did, so i'd definitely recommend reading the two sequels he did. if you are inteested in deeper lore then the Legends and greatschools trilogies might be for you, some don't like them for demystifying the history of dune.
All in all the only ones i would keep my hands off are Paul of dune and winds of dune, they felt like filler episodes to me.
I read Dune through Children in high school. I liked them despite the fact that so many of the concepts were beyond me, I knew there was more to them than I could glean at the time. 20 years later my wife and I have been reading them together after Dune 2021. She fell in love with it and it rekindled my interest in the series. We're almost done with Heretics now and.... Wow... I knew it was beyond my grasp as a teen but I had no idea how out of my depth I was. Frank Herbert was on some serious stuff. Truly a mind before his time.
I'm sure I wouldn't have grasped half of what Herbert was writing about had I read these in high school. And I'm sure I have even more to grasp on a reread. These books certainly do possess a lot of depth.
For what it’s worth I picked up the duke and lady of caladan by Brian and Kevin and I throughly enjoyed them!
Good to know. I know I said in my video that I wasn't going to continue in the series, but I have to say that I miss the universe. So never say never I guess!
@@RedFuryBooks I haven’t read any of his other material but these are very enjoyable. They are part of trilogy and so far I’m really liking where the story is going and the character development!
The Hyperion Cantos might be worth checking out if you want another quality sci-fi universe
This was true! (This Dune video is 2 years old (ish), and I read the Hyperion Cantos last year). It surpassed Dune as my favorite sci-fi work.
The only other Science Fiction at the time that came close to the World building of Dune was Foundation.
I love the Foundation series and don't think it gets enough credit by modern audiences.
I was so taken by the Foundation series that I wrote Issac Asimov a kinda love letter, and he wrote me back! Not a love letter however, he answered some questions for me.
@@katburns9004 That's really cool! I enjoyed Foundation as well - especially the later novels.
I can't watch this yet. Maybe you answer this in it. But I need help! I just finished the first Dune book. Man alive, I can't believe where they ended things! It seemed like it was really just a prologue. I had to finish it today because my Kindle library loan expires tomorrow. I had no idea if it would disappear at midnight. (I couldn't renew it.) I was panicking. But I did it, I finished the text! But then there's these appendices. I started, but I don't think I'll make it before midnight. Too tired. I don't want to speed through it and not absorb anything.
Do you know if you really even need to read that part? It seems like a whole lot of interesting information that I would have wanted to learn through reading the story, not just told outright this way. Isn't it kind of spoiling the rest of the books? I hadn't committed to reading the rest of the books, but darnit, the way this one ended was cruel!
I think you can get by without them. If my memory serves me correctly, it’s just some aspects of the world building that Herbert fleshes out, like the religion of Dune, it’s ecology, etc.
@@RedFuryBooks Thanks.
Nice!
For someone who has only read 250 pages out of the first Dune, and spend 32 years avoiding spoilers or any kind.. would you still recommend reading Heretics of Dune, despite you not liking it? :P
I have trouble recommending a book I don't like! So I say no, but like bad news at the doctor, get a second opinion! lol
@@RedFuryBooks Hehe well thanks for your honesty :)
And thanks for a great video :)
@@Wabin22 thank you!
I actually loved heretics as my 3rd favorite. I’m surprised you disliked it as much as you did. Darwi Odrade is one of my favorite characters in the whole franchise and I felt like Heretics helped me understand the previous books more. Also I loved the very end of the book, like the last page. I feel like that could’ve been the perfect ending to the whole thing in a lot of ways.
I get enjoyment out of all of them but I rank them like this:
1. Dune
2. Dune Messiah
3. Heretics of Dune
4. Children of Dune
5. God Emperor of Dune
6. Chapterhouse Dune
Again I do like them all and think they make a great saga. I should do a re read again here soon.
When I reread I'll likely just do the first 4, but glad that someone found some enjoyment in Heretics! I do wish Herbert had lived longer to finish the series (and potentially write more in the world).
Extremely good series; I was engaged by the writing style of hearing the characters thoughts through out the first book. I find that a very powerful story telling technique. After finishing the first book, I knew I was going to read the rest of the series (dune1-6) I love the concept of fate/destiny; free will, anticipating the future, concepts, beliefs over time, power.
My ranking are:
1.Dune(the one that gets you hooked)
2.God Emperor (the future/self sacrifice)
3.Messiah(a man's fate)
4.Children of Dune(a child's destiny)
5.ChapterHouse(knowing too much/free will)
6.Heretics(beliefs/fate/destiny)
Even though Heretics is last after finishing the series I appreciate it much more.
I love your listing of themes with your ranking. That was something I didn't do much of in my video because I didn't want to make it too long. Thanks for commenting!
@@RedFuryBooks Thank you for replying. Have you read the Hyperion Series?
@@jasonbell7292 I have not, but it's definitely on the TBR. I've heard such great things. I read The Terror by him and was very impressed with his writing.
I totally love the dune movies from denis and watched them both a few times already, i hate reading actually, but i love dune SO MUCH, that i bought the 6 main novels from frank lately and i passed half of the first book now, its great and i cant wait for all the rest and cant wait for dune part 3 messiah movie
I hope that your love of the movies kindles a love of reading through Dune!
Love all 6 books with my favourites being Heretics & Chapterhouse closely followed by Messiah.
Glad you love all six. When I reread I'll give the last two another shot most likely.
Read Dune and loved it. Was apprehensive about going past the first book so I've watched a few review videos and most suggest the same thing. Read the original trilogy and God emperor and stop there.
Glad to hear I'm not the only one that says stop after God Emperor! I hope you enjoy the sequels!
I just finished the first book and am about to start Messiah and Dune is by far the best book I’ve ever read
I hope you continue to love these books!
6. Dune Messiah (not a bad book, it is just short compared to the others and starts kinda slow)
5. Children of Dune (the book felt kinda weird to me and I didn't like the "Alia being posessed plot" but overall it was amazing)
4. God Emperor of Dune (it has a lot of depth and is the most philosophic dune book )
3. Chapterhouse Dune (it had some really amazing scenes throughout the story and the last third of the story is really meaningfull and amazing. Also it has some of the only large scale action scenes that actually don't happen off screen)
2. Heretics of Dune (the ending could have been a bit less anticlimatic but the book is filled with amazing scenes from the beginning to the end which is something most of the other books do not manage to do)
1. Dune (Do I need to say more :))
Thank you for your list - I totally agree about the Alia side plot in Children of Dune being overall a stinker, and one of the things I alluded do in the video. It almost ruined the book for me. Thanks for watching!
I didn't like God Emperor when I was reading it, but I find myself thinking about that book often. Heretics are boring. First 3 books are very good. Don't know should I read the Chapterhouse or not?
I hated Heretics but mostly liked Chapterhouse. if you really want to get more background on the Bene Gesserit, you may like it. But don't expect too much IMO.
please don't stop at god emperor! Heretics is, if not my favourite, my second favourite in the Dune series, the worldbuilding is amazing and the characters are so solid! i know it's everyone cup of tea but definetly worth the read
I'm sincerely glad you enjoyed it, it just didn't work for me.
In my opinion Messiah is a direct inspiration for Games Thrones
Interesting take! I need to give that one more thought. Thanks for watching and commenting!
Have you ever read "Hiero's Journey"? It would make a great television mini-series.
I haven’t heard of that one!
@@RedFuryBooks it was written by Sterling E. Lanier. It was meant to be a trilogy but Sterling didn't finish it before he died. It is given credit for inspiring Dungeons and Dragons.
You're part of the Dharma Initiative too?! I thought I recognized you.
Someone ..was 7th book going to be titled house atreides¿so can i read house atreides as a conclusion to series¿does follow dune heretics¿
The two "sequel" to Frank's work were Hunters of Dune and Sandworms of Dune, which Brian Herbert claimed to have found outlines in his father's papers well after his death. But many consider those dubious claims.
It’s been awhile but what character is he referring to @ 16:30?
I was referring to Alia.
Do I have to read heretics in order to understand chapterhouse?
Yes, unfortunately you do. Those were the first two books of a planned trilogy so the story does link.
I disagree about Heretics. I rank it third after God Emperor and Dune.
I found the character development of new characters such as Teg, Odrade, Taraza, and Lucilla was fascinating and in-depth. It's also probably the most fast-paced which was welcome after the dialogue heavy God Emperor. I also like how Herbert shows the evolution of the Atreides, Idaho, and the Bene Gesserit. They've changed a lot from the first book. It's also the first time he delves into the Bene Tleilax.
After I finished reading God Emperor, I had a hunch that the next book would focus on No Tech such as No ships and No rooms as well as descendants of Siona and Duncan being invisible to prescience. I was very intrigued by the Fish Speakers and Herbert's concept of an all female military so was pleasantly surprised to see the introduction of the Honored Matres though there could've been a lot more background on them provided.
I agree that it's a little 'jumpy' by omitting certain expected scenes and presenting rather unnecessary ones. This is also tied to my main criticism that it at times moves too quickly and ties up loose ends rather abruptly without much explanation. It's a bit disjointed in that regard.
Bernard, I love your detailed reply - thank you! Interesting perspective, as I haven't talked with many people (online or IRL) that rank Heretics that high. But you've definitely hit upon some of the big points that I enjoyed, two of which that I didn't mention in the video was the Fish Speakers and Honored Matres. Thanks for the great comment and even though we disagreed on this book for the most part!
@@RedFuryBooks It's always entertaining to discuss the Dune Chronicles with those, who like me, enjoy them. Disagreement is digestible when you're dealing with reasonable people who have knowledge of the material and have read a lot of books not only sci-fi. Though lately I find myself almost exclusively reading sci-fi even though I find it increasingly difficult to find new gems. Which relegates to me to reread the classics or my old faves.
Im thinking of trying some of the exspanded universe books. The series woth a book in house atradies cariono and harkonon*** look intresting. And ive read heritics of dune, twice to make sure it was actually that bad. I figure even if there different its dune worldbuilding and cant be worse than that.
Yes, I can see that the world-building can still be a draw with a different author.
I love all 6, and I did enjoy most of the others, a few I was like meh
Children of Dune has some of the best single lines I've ever read in literature. It's much like Messiah, but with more continuous punchy action. So for me, that's the best overall book.
Loved the vodeo hudge dune fan i love diving into the concepts and stories of these books are so vididly ingraved in my head that i can flip to a random page in the seiries read 3 words and visualize that sene crisply and were it is. Truely an experience in curently struggling through heretics of dune after some God emporor recovery and thinking and i like heretics sort of my absolute favorites are children- masia( i imagine them as one book) and god emporor. Than the og dune which i could proble play cover to cover in my head love the deatail. Defenetialt gunna funnish chapter house which will probly be higher than heritics. Anny way just live herbert and dune inspired me to start writting my own book.
I’m 25% through God Emperor and Messiah is still my favorite book.
Make sure you let me know your ranking after you read the all!
@@RedFuryBooks I will for sure! God Emperor has some parts that are a little questionable for me so far.
@@PhreshNicky for sure. It's the one I want to reread most, though!
Dune is my favorite, but i think it's incomplete without Messiah. Probably my second favorite is Heretics. I understand your complaints, but there's just something about it. I love it.
BH/KJA write generic sci-fi and slap Dune on it to sell copies. They should be ashamed of themselves.
SPOILERS FOR DUNE MESSIAH: Just finished Dune messiah and I thought that was a dense read, I went back and re read so many parts. I enjoyed this book and really liked the ending . The 3rd act was awesome , the stone burner scene was crazy, especially when Paul knew where everybody was at . I already ordered Children Of Dune, excited to start
Awesome! Yes, Children of Dune works great immediately after Dune Messiah. I still think of that ending quite a bit.
Only read first 2 books almost done with 3rd gotta say messiah was by far my favorite with the first dune being in the category of a book I liked but cannot ever recommend because it was a rough amateur read and write omfg so much fixing needed especially after reading book 2 and most of 3 I think that children of dune is more of a rewrite of dune 1. God emperor sounds like it will be my number 1 from everything I have heard. Who knows I get this weird feeling that chapter house or Heretics might be up there for me simply because everyone hating on messiah and I loved it only reason I bought the last 4 books which I almost didn’t finish dune it was poorly written.
So far I’ve only read the first three. Messiah felt underwritten. It was all plot and I never spent enough time in a place to fully appreciate the events, especially when he’s throwing in suddenly new concepts and beings. Children was good but felt anticlimactic for a trilogy end, and you could tell he was trying yo end in a note similar to “they shall call us wives”, but it didn’t land for me.
Heretics is amazing, it was super action packed and had great characters
I'm glad you enjoyed it!
My rankings for all 6 is as follows
Dune: #1 🤩🤯🤩😍🤩🤯
Dune:Messiah - #4 🤯🤬😡😁
Children of Dune: #3 😁
God Emperor of Dune: #5 🤔😶😯
Heretics of Dune: #6 🥱
Chapterhouse: Dune - #2 😳🤯😳
I love the reviews with emojis - especially Heretics lol
My ranking (I only read the fist 4): 1st Dune, 2nd Messiah, 3rd Children of Dune, 4th God Emperor.... so basically the order of the series :-)
I actually think that Children of Dune is my favorite Dune followed by the original Dune.
I love every Dune, also God Emperor, Heretics and Chapterhouse but I prefer the original Dune cycle over God Emperor (its kinda a standalone) and the second cycle.
I definitely like the first three more than the end of the series.
Im very late to the Dune game, ive just started Children of Dune the first book was great but the second book oh my god, i couldnt put it down, i finished it like 4 days
Oh I can see that for sure
@@RedFuryBooks I'm excited to read more of the series
Late to the dune saga discusion, but better late than never. I recently read all 6 dune books by Frank Herbert, after watching all the dune adaptations, both movies and mini series, and having played the board game. So i was mostly spoiled for the first one, and losely for the next 2 books, by the children of dune miniseries. I am glad i didn't stop the series at any point, because now olny after six books, it truly feels like a complete experience. So after this prologue this is my ranking with some explanation, without spoilers, from "least favourite" to most favourite reading experience.
6) My least favourite book and the one that took from me the longest time and a great amount of willpower to push through by far was "chapterhouse dune". The main problem for me was the feeling that some thoughts or discussions were repeating chapter after chapter and while i like moral, political and existencial thoughts and discussions, I don't need to know at which time every day, which meal, how is it cooked and how fast it's consumed, by who. Also the many and different layers of meaning behing a cough or the way someone gets up from a chair, just send me. But and that is a big BUT, if the reader powers through the 3/5 of the book, the remaining chapters lead excellently to one of the best or the best ending in the dune saga. Also as always, great character progression and wonderfull dialogue.
5) From n.5 and on, the reading experience was soothing and relaxing. My 5th book is the original dune. This book deserves all the hype it gets, and the point I make by puting it this low, is that the remaining books have a lot more to offer after this great introduction. A great cast of characters, but the ones who return on later dune entries, I feel are done better then, than on their first appearance in this book. Also maybe a significant role on this ranking was that i already somewhat knew the plot and the ending by the adaptations, so the suspence wasn't all there.
4) Up next is dune messiah. This book made me love Chani so much that she became one of my favourite characters of the dune saga, and she is certainly my favourite in messiah. While reading through the bleakness and the tragedy, I felt the romance and the love between Paul and Chani so much that I almost forget the machinations the political powerplays. Love is in the air all around, and if Romeo and Juliet was a dune book this would be it.
3) GOD EMPEROR OF DUNE. I have a theory that the even numbered dune books are the most tragic but also the most sentimental of the bunch. After all what is the point of winning a war or a title if you are not fulfiled. While reading this book i felt like hearing the lyrics of bohemian rapsody by queen. Nothing really matters..... The reason that this book has topped for me both messiah and the original is that it has more length that the former and more time to study the world both fictional and real, than the latter. Also it has the best character of the dune saga, the GOD EMPEROR HIMSELF.
2) Next we take a step back to the 3rd dune book. The children of dune has for me the best version of every returning character from previous entries. The new faces are for me great allegories of previous characters and i feel this is a mirror to the original book both in story and in message. Also the ending of this book is more scary for me than whole horror books. And if I would tie in a pop culture refrence for this book it would be "I have no mouth and i must scream".
1) My favourite dune book and my best reading experience in the dune saga is the heretics of dune. I cannot really explain objectively why I love it but I can somewhat elaborate. This book is a spy thriller, cyberpunk, conspiracy, drama with some sex and violence. In an ideal world I would love Martin Scorsese to adapt this book and fancasting Robert de Niro as Miles Teg. I love this book whether it's dune or not.
Thank you for taking the time in sharing your detailed thoughts on the series. We obviously disagreed about Heretics but I understand your love for the book. I look forward to rereading this at some point in the future to see if my thoughts change with time, as I still think of these books often - especially the first 4.
I’ve read the first 3 so far and will probably start the 4th somewhat soon. I would actually rank them:
1 Dune: Messiah
2 Dune
3 Children of Dune
I know having messiah over the original is very controversial, and I still really loved the original and think objectively it’s probably the better book, but Messiah just felt more concise and easier to get into than the first book for me. Part of that is probably because I already had the background of the first book though. I also really loved the direction Herbert took the characters and story, it was really fascinating to me. I appreciate authors who can tell a compelling and interesting story in a relatively small number of pages as well. I also liked Children of Dune but felt it kind of drug on too long in some parts. Also I agree about the main character being unlikeable, I think that added to the feeling of “drag” for me. Overall great series though, and I’m excited to start God Emperor of Dune!
A lot of people would consider Messiah above Dune being a hot take, but I've seen enough people mention it that I think there's definitely something there. A nd I think you hit upon it - since the setting and world is so well-established at this point, it can tell a more concise story.
Chapterhouse of dune is the bottom of the barrel for me. Odrade was a boring character that I disliked in heretics and grew even more annoyed of in CH. The fact that most of the book follows her and is just additional information on the sisterhood in the 6th book is just bad writing, however I think the seeds for what would have been were a nice touch. Duncan's constant growth and abilities along side the set up for Marty and Daniel characters are something that at least made the book worth one read.
Great take - Odrade did get a little grating the further into the book you got.
I loved the first 4 books. I have trouble picking the best book, but I would have to say that either Dune or God Emperor of Dune is the best.
I think Herbert's biggest problem is pacing. It's a byproduct of his obsession with world building.
Currently in the middle of GEoD. I like the texts at the start of the chapters. Those alone make it a contender for best Dune book so far. However, I’m finding the sexuality/gender/homosexuality themes to be disorienting so far. They sound outdated but they also sound like there’s merit in them. I guess that’s the power of Herbert’s writing. Let me know your thoughts!
Indeed, I believe that God Emperor is probably the densest of the Dune books, and perhaps the most philosophical, so many people rank this first. As for the overall discussions on gender, I think that all great writers like Herbert simply make you think about the themes and topics... which make them great even if you don't necessarily understand the author's intent (I sure didn't - one reason I want to reread this one most).
I just finished the first book but I don't think I'll read any of the other, I feel like it would ruin it lol
It's so hard to follow up such a brilliant book!
Wow- my list is almost inverse from yours. I found God Emperor nothing more than an author preaching tool that I could not wait to end. And trust me, if someone is going to argue “you didn’t like it because you just didn’t understand it,” I’ve heard this before. My major issue with it was that I found it to be a massive author preaching tool, with Leto acting as nothing more as a way for Herbert to just get out his feelings on philosophy etc, with the actual story being secondary to Herbert getting out his personal views. It came off to me like he knew he needed a link to connect the first series with the latter half, so instead of crafting an exciting narrative, he just decided he would preach his personal views at us for a few hundred pages and then conclude Leto’s story while setting up Idaho for what was to come. Seriously, at one point during one of Leto and Idaho’s discussions, I was so taken aback by how seemingly random what they were discussing was, (specifically Idaho confronting Leto about the homosexuality of the Fish Speakers, that I put the book down and looked up Herberts personal views which lined up with Leto’s POV almost to a T . he also had a gay son who he had a massive falling out with… which made the scene feel much like a personal explanation for his own actions). Compare this to the original’s stance on environmentalism: Herbert made it no secret he was very much concerned about environmental conservation, and that theme was woven into the plot of the original Dune in a way that worked within the narrative as a key element of the plot, as opposed to GE’s constant side discussions that have very little to do with advancing the overall plot. But just in a general note, author avatars in fiction really kill my immersion, regardless of whether I agree or disagree with their point of view. This type of storytelling unfortunately made GE a huge dud for me.
Anyhoo, I also personally loved both Heretics and Chapterhouse and found them to be a return to form, blending the philosophical with the world building of the original, with a decent amount a action thrown in to boot.
So my rankings would be as follows:
1. Dune
2. Heretics
3 & 4 are tied between Chapterhouse and Messiah
5. Children
6. God Emperor
And again for the GE fans, I understood the points that were made in GE just fine, some I agreed with, others not so much. What killed it for me was the *way* in which Herbert chose to express these ideas within the story. It just took me out of the world far too much to be an enjoyable read.
You have some very interesting and well-considered opinions about this. That's what I love about works of art - we can all have very different opinions and all be correct because of its subjectivity. I personally try to separate the art from the artist, so that's a big reason why we likely saw God Emperor very different from you. But you do bring up some interesting points I'll consider when I reread this one. Thanks for commenting!
I liked it a lot
I rank them like this: 4, 1, 3, 5 or 6 (they are one book) and lastly 2. None of them are bad of course. My big issue with 2 is how worse it is written than anything else in the series and my issues with 5 and 6 is the lack of any resolution to the plots, character journeys and themes. RIP Frank.
Herbert was planning to write Dune 7, we know that for a fact, but no sequel was ever released. Ever. No prequels that need to be read to even comprehend the basic plot of that great conclusion exist either.
It's really a shame that Frank never got to finish the series - I often wonder with that final book if I would have felt differently about books 5 and 6.
After watching the movie I wanted to read the book. I have wanted to for many years, but just never did. right now I am on heretics of dune, and I am so glad I'm listening on audio book, because I would not be able to read this book. I'm a 3rd of the way through and have no idea who anyone is really. the names are so weird and abundant.
I don’t think I could’ve handled Heretics as an audio book! Good luck! 😬
@@RedFuryBooks I bought all the books in anticipation of reading them, but I can't stop. so I've been listening to them while working... And that has taken priority over actually working except this book. driving home by myself I realized my mind wandered and I missed a good 15 minutes... So far I'm only concerned with Duncan's Gola and the worm girl.
@@RedFuryBooks The problem with audiobooks is the reader does voices, and attributes attitudes to people that probably would have seemed different to me if I read it.
@@mattronimus I felt that was one of the inherent problems of Heretics. So many characters, most lacking depth, which meant it was hard to latch on and care about very many of them.
@@RedFuryBooks I'm getting near the end and I'm really starting to like it. I'm where Duncan realized they want him to confront the worm...( I think he only suggested) .. Yeah but yeah I cannot tell the BG sisters apart. it's getting easier though.
I actually really enjoyed Messiah but I'm learning I'm a exception
It's definitely the one I still think about most!
@@RedFuryBooks a very interesting one indeed
Don't listen to the haters, at least read Hunters and sandworms for the story. Bringing back the old characters was on Frank, and for such a thing i usually don't like they handeled it quite well. overall i really enjoyed those two books, even tho they aren't on the level of Frank's writing.
There's an alternate universe where Herbert would have wrote Dune, then have Dune Messiah being about the Jihad ending with Paul becoming a worm and God Empror finishing the trilogy with the Golden Path.
I haven't read the book, planning on doing so but it seems that Dune and God empror have Herbert best ideas.
I'd read that!
Gurney? Are you talking about Gurney in Children of Dune?
This video is quite old so I don't recall everything I said (and don't have time to go back to it at the moment), but think I was referring to Alia.
Considering the author couldn't finish the saga, I wonder what would be the best stopping point. I've heard that Paul's story ends in Children of Dune, but then I hear people saying God emperor of Dune is so so good, so I'm confused lol
The first three form a trilogy, and then God Emperor mostly stands alone, while somewhat continuing the story. I loved God Emperor, so I recommend the first 4 for sure.
I’d have to say I disagree with you saying Paul became boring in Messiah. Too me, I enjoyed Messiah because it made me much more interested in Paul’s character. In the first book he was more of a stereotypical “hero” character but Messiah flipped that on its head and made me think more about why he did what he did and why he thought the way he thought. Nice video though I agree with most rankings.
Interesting take and I do appreciate the way they evolved his character from the typical.
Thanks for your Video! My personal ranking differs from yours. I found Childeren of Dune first half a real drag. Jessica is acting stupid and evil and with Alias possession Frank Herbert managed to contradict his own lore. But the genetic memory thing is his only weakness, I think. I liked Heritics. Duncan Idaho's Training as a pre-ghola was cool and it was fun to discover a new and changed world
I hated where Herbert took the Alia character, which I loved early in the series. I often wonder if Herbert had written the final book if my feelings about Heretics and Chapterhouse would be different.