"All governments suffer a recurring problem: Power attracts pathological personalities. It is not that power corrupts but that it is magnetic to the corruptible. Such people have a tendency to become drunk on violence, a condition to which they are quickly addicted." - Frank Herbert, Chapterhouse: Dune
I loved books 4,5 and 6, and of course was obsessed with first 3 I have never stood the hatred for the last 2, I just loved the arc, the action and the second big theme, first is of course to be wary of leaders, but second theme is about love as a catalyst, as a wild card. 5 and 6 allow that wildness in the Atreides line still flow through, especially Odrade. That the BG finally realise it has some purpose, but are still scared by it, and those with it still bury deep the true depths of it. All back to Jessica, who’s love for Leto began this incredible story. Paul’s love for Chani The twins love for each other Alia and D The God Emperor, S and H, and of course D Such incredible books❤
Yeah, this statement I see a lot on old books and movies, but it makes no sense. I would argue most people alive on earth don't even know what Dune is and maybe only think it's a new movie. Spoiler warnings are always a necessity.
I would be interested to see what you would think of Herbert's sequel to this, Dune Messiah. It (sorta) completes Paul's story and expands a lot of the themes you (and I) love bout this novel, such as cycles, the weight of massive responsibility, and the dangers of charisma, wwaayyy more. When I read it, it made me appreciate the first book even more. Highly recommend it! Plus, it's like a fraction of the length of Dune.
I think Dune Messiah it's integral to Dune's themes. It easy to see Paul as a hero to the fremen and the rest of the universe without Messiah nailing the point with it's commentary about power dynamics, fanatism and populism.
@@Parainsomne Yeah, big agree there. You can get a bit of it at the end of the first book, but I do feel like you have to read between the lines a bit. Messiah just ties it all together so well. It’s an excellent subversion.
None of the sequels ever come close to matching Dune's power, but you really should read Children of Dune as well to complete the Atreides saga. It completes Paul's storyline and begins the story of his son. I've come to value both books more over the years, with reservations. God-Emperor of Dune is pretty much a waste of time. Herbert was starting to lose the plot at this point.
@@onepiecefan74 Dune works as a stand-alone hero's journey - a hero's journey with hints that it's going to go wrong, with a reluctant hero, but a hero's journey nonetheless. To deconstruct the hero's journey, that's where Dune Messiah comes in. To understand where Herbert was going with all of this, you need Children of Dune as well. But I and countless other people think Dune works just fine on its own. We all also think it's a much better book than any of the sequels. So, I too disagree. I think Dune works just fine on its own. It's an opinion, you know, and we're all allowed to have them. Dune Messiah and Children of Dune definitely don't have nearly as strong narratives or all the complex interweaving layers of the original and are not nearly as entertaining, which is part of a book's job, Herbert didn't just set out to exposition dump his philosophy all over us.
I respect your aversion to sequels. Düne Messiah was intended as the ending to the first book however, and was cut for length to be released later. I’d recommend reading it. It’s a natural endpoint for this part of the story, and many argue the original narrative is incomplete without it.
Finally! Dune - the entire series of 6 books, not just the first book - is a ritual reread for me every 10 years or so. And guess what? I always get something else from it. Hint: every book is breaking the expectations set up in previous books.
This book can be read as a standalone, but if you do that you really miss out on the true message of the dune story as Herbert imagined it. In order to get the full story, one really ought to read the first 4 books, ending with God Emperor of Dune. And in my opinion (as a person who loves this entire universe) the 4th book is just perfect ending. amazing story all together. Really happy to see you liked it
Nice epiphany on the cycles thing! (around 22:00). This is part of what’s so great about Dune-all the ecological, religious, political, and philosophical dimensions of it make for such rich fodder for discussion.
My dad got me into Dune when I was a kid and it and the entire universe created by Herbert is my favourite of all time. So glad you have gotten around to reading it despite it not really being your usual fare. Love your reviews, Cliff, keep it up ✊️
I know you’ll likely wait a while for another sci fi book, and I see some other people recommending stuff that’s pretty good, but man, if you do anything else, you gotta do Book of the New Sun. Just like… there’s no competition. Wolfe’s style is most comparable to Proust, Nabokov, and Joyce. And because part of what you like about Dune is the way things are revealed indirectly, you’ll just absolutely lose your shit for New Sun. It’s available as Shadow and Claw, Sword and Citadel, and Urth of the New Sun. 4 volumes of one book + a coda/sequel novel that’s very much worth it.
Maaann!! This was not a review I ever wanted you to do, but sure has been my favorite of yours. Love this type of deep really prepared reviews. Good job!
Literally finished the main story today (Appendices left) and decided to search a bit for it wondering if you had a review and you posted one yesterday, now that's a coincidence. Felt a very interesting mix of emotions at the ending: sadness because I expected it to last more looking at the number of pages left, awe at the journey and the ending, and incredible excitement for what's to come. I'm feeling the same way I do when I discover a story that ends up consuming a large part of my life, so you could say I enjoyed the book!
I can understand that you do not want to read the sequels but honestly Dune Messiah is the original ending to the first book. Those two books were supposed to be published as one but only later split apart. It really finishes Pauls's Story in a unique way. The story was not supposed to end with Dune it was not about Herbert adding another book after success but it was planned out to end with the story of Dune Messiah (for Paul, not the universe). Dune Messiah is a fairly quick read and I would really look forward to seeing your opinion on this "sequel" which really just is the natural ending to Paul's story. For me personally, it also took the story from the early 20s to an even more adult type of book. The second book also completes the last real cycle in the series I would argue. Kind of spoiler: In God Emporer of Dune the cycles of humanity get shattered with godlike precision and foreseeing.
I agree! Messiah is not a shlocky sci-fi sequel any more than Dune is a shlocky sci-fi novel. Everything he said about appreciating the ending made me wish he read Messiah too, it is the true end to Herbert's philosophy on the kind of leader Paul is.
The character Liet Kynes is based on the famous horticulturist Luther Burbank. Herbert lived and worked at the local newspaper of the same town Burbank made his career at.
Read Dune at 17, absolutely loved it and the rest of the trilogy, probably perfect time in my life to read it, never re-read it because of my fond memories but consider it the best SF novel, along with Foundation series and Neuromancer.
I really dislike that many people look down on sci fi and fantasy, and praise dune as literary sci fi. As if most sci fi is all about laser guns and spaceship fights. Its a genre that aims to explore humanity. I really recomend something like childhoods end for someone who wants to get in to sci fi but is a bit skeptical of it having any literary value. Sci fi is a great way to explore philosofical questions and questions about humanity in a way that isn't spoon fed to you
It's great to see you step out of your comfort zone a little and even better to see that you enjoyed a sci-fi book. I haven't read Dune yet, and this video has reminded me I need to fix that. Do you plan on reviewing more genre fiction for the channel?
Recently rediscovered my inner book nerd. The library, and their used book store there, have been making my addiction sustainable. While I'm mixed on Better Help, I do struggle with my mental health and go to regular therapy. I loved what you said about books being a part of keeping mentally healthy. I think I'm the same way; without new ideas, my mind like turns on itself and gets sick. New to your channel, but I'm kind of hooked. You're much more literate than me and I get excited when I catch a reference. Great work and thank you for making videos.
24:05 "I'd like to read a science fiction novel where everyone is a complete neurotic and totally unsure of themselves, and often looks like a complete moron, going through life, doing their thing, dealing with the unbelievable, vast, new technology and whathaveyou." You pretty much described Philip K Dick's entire bibiliography. I'd give Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep? a try. The "deep, dark, dirty, mysterious nature which is inherent to existence" you describe is one of his most prevalent themes. And I suppose it would be, given that he was schizophrenic.
Yeah, when he was detailing what he liked about the book and what he does and doesn’t like about science fiction, the reoccurring thought “Shit, that’s PKD down to a fucking “T” right there” kept popping up in my noggin. I always suggest Ubik as the entry point to start with PKD because it’s the most Dickian of all of his works, but DADOES is also a good jumping off point as well. It was my personal doorway into Dick’s drug-fueled nightmare universe of intangible non-counterfeit realities. His finest works stand above of all other literary creations as a lingering specter in my mind that wraps me up in it’s shade. A shade that i can never not be draped by if I ever would desire such a thing. Dick’s mind beautifully haunts me. It’s like he shows you the face of God…and it’s an ugly face…but you cannot quite ever avert your eyes away from its gaze. To read Dick and to at least somewhat understand Dick, you mist imbibe sips of the elixir from the cup of madness he proffers and that insane tincture sloshes down your throat and becomes a part of you that can’t ever shake away.
This description also works for the character in The Expanse series. They aren't all that neurotic, mostly, but they do struggle with their situation quite a lot, both because of new technology and because of the sociopolitical landscape in the story (A Cold War between Earth and Mars, with blue collar workers from the Asteroid Belt caught in between).
I’m pleasantly surprised to see you enjoyed Dune so much! Please do check out the two film adaptations, they’re worth your time. Also, I’d love to see you at some point review The Dispossessed by Ursula K Le Guin.
Large parts of Messiah were written concurrently with Dune and cut by Herbert. It's a very satisfying continuation and should you choose you could stop there. Another option is to keep reading to the 4th book, God Emperor of Dune, which wraps up nearly everything you could want. It's also a very bizarre (but great) book and really more of a philosophy text than it is a scifi novel concerned with plot. Herbert started a new story arc with books 5 and 6 but fans don't consider them as good as the previous novels and he unfortunately died before he could finish it.
My favorite science fiction author is Ursula K. LeGuin. There's a lot of emotions on her books, so maybe you won't like this much, but I don't know if there're sentimentality in those terms. But certainly, she works a lot with philosophical themes and have, in my opinion, a great prose style.
Dune is a classic, the sequels are not and do appeal to more scifi readers. He will not read it and that is totally fine because Dune is great by itself
You mentioned one of my favorite elements of the book, but kind of glossed over why it’s so cool, so I’m going to expand. It’s a very cool (sort of fractal) irony built into the story. In the broader universe, by far the most valuable substance is the spice, for reasons too numerous and complex to list. But on Arrakis, the only place where the spice is found, by far the most valuable substance is just, simply… water.
It’s very hard for me to get into sci-fi books, and most of them have something to do with machines and technology. That’s the central focus. What I love so much about Dune is that it tries to avoid technology and it’s more like a traditional fantasy book, and that it’s focused on the characters and the world, and what you can do with nature and your body and your own abilities.
Spoilers don't matter. It's a Greek Tragedy. The foreknowing only increments the weight of doom. As far as style, Dune is written like an Attic vase. A moment is flattened, and each character's role within it revealed in its entirety. The narrative doesn't flow so much as it rotates a sequence of static images, unchanging and unchangeable in their significance to one another.
I'm not a sci-fi reader either, but I was really hooked by Three Body Problem by Cixin Liu. Hard recommend! Really interesting exercise in thought experiments.
In the sandy deserts of the planet Arrakis, a group of travelers gathered around a campfire to share stories and experiences. The wind howled around them, whipping up the sand and dust, but they huddled close, their faces lit by the flickering flames. One of the travelers, a weathered man with piercing blue eyes, began to tell a tale of his travels across the desert. He spoke of the harsh conditions and the dangers that lurked in the shifting sands, but he also spoke of the beauty and mystery of the desert. As he spoke, the other travelers listened intently, their eyes wide with wonder. They hung on his every word, savoring the details of his journey and imagining themselves in his place. He spoke of the towering sand dunes that rose up to meet the sky, their rippling surfaces glistening in the bright sun. He described the way the sand shifted and changed with each passing breeze, creating patterns that seemed to dance and sway. The man also spoke of the people he had met along the way, the hardy tribes of the desert who had learned to survive in the harshest of conditions. He described their tough, weathered faces and their sturdy, muscular bodies, honed by a life of hard work and constant struggle. He told of the way they moved across the sands, with a grace and fluidity that spoke of a deep connection to the desert itself. He described the colorful fabrics they wore, the intricate patterns and designs that spoke of a rich cultural heritage. As the man spoke, the others around the fire began to share their own stories. They spoke of their travels across the desert, of the dangers they had faced and the wonders they had seen. They shared tips and tricks for survival in the harsh conditions, and they marveled at the beauty and complexity of the desert. And as the fire crackled and popped, and the wind howled around them, they felt a sense of camaraderie and connection. They were all travelers on the same journey, seeking knowledge and understanding in a world of mystery and wonder. And they knew that they would continue to face challenges and obstacles along the way, but they were ready to face them with courage and determination, knowing that they were not alone.
Part 5: The sun began to set, casting a warm golden glow over the sand dunes. The members of the community gathered around the flickering fire, eagerly awaiting the arrival of the storyteller. The old man, with his weathered face and long white beard, arrived and took his seat at the center of the group. As he began to speak, the eyes of the crowd were fixed intently upon him. Part 6: As the storyteller wove his tale of Sariyah, the community members leaned in closer, their faces illuminated by the warm light of the fire. They were engrossed in the story, so much so that they did not hear the sound of approaching footsteps. Suddenly, a group of bandits emerged from the darkness, their faces obscured by the shadows. The community members were caught off guard, and they scrambled to their feet in a panic. Part 7: The bandits began to attack, brandishing their weapons and shouting insults. The community members tried to fight back, but they were outnumbered and outmatched. The sound of clashing steel and shouting filled the air as the battle raged on. Despite the chaos, the storyteller continued to speak, his voice growing louder and more forceful as he described Sariyah's unwavering determination and bravery in the face of danger. Part 8: Slowly but surely, the community members began to rally, drawing strength and inspiration from the tale being told. They fought back with renewed courage and determination, refusing to give up in the face of overwhelming adversity. The battle was fierce and brutal, but as the sun began to rise over the desert, the bandits were finally driven off, defeated by the strength and resilience of the community. As the fire burned low and the last of the bandits fled into the night, the community members looked at the storyteller with reverence and appreciation. They knew that they had faced a great challenge and emerged victorious, and they had the support and guidance of their fellow community members, as well as the lessons they had learned from the stories told around the campfire.
The journalist, Mark, had always been fascinated by stories of adventure and exploration. As a young boy, he spent hours poring over books about far-off lands and the intrepid explorers who braved their dangers. As he grew older, Mark became a journalist, and he used his passion for adventure to inspire his writing. He traveled to far-flung corners of the world, documenting the stories of those who risked everything in pursuit of their dreams. One day, while traveling through the desert, Mark met an old man named Ibrahim. Ibrahim was a storyteller, and he had a wealth of knowledge about the desert and its secrets. Mark was captivated by Ibrahim's tales, and he spent many hours listening to him speak. During one of their conversations, Mark mentioned the story he had heard about the mysterious collector who had amassed a vast collection of treasures from the desert. Ibrahim's face grew grave, and he told Mark a story that he had never shared with anyone before. The collector's name was Rashid, and he was a wealthy man who had made his fortune in the oil business. Rashid was obsessed with the desert, and he spent years exploring its secrets and collecting its treasures. But as Rashid's collection grew, so too did his obsession. He became paranoid and reclusive, and he began to hoard his treasures away from the world, refusing to share them with anyone. Ibrahim told Mark about a time when he had met Rashid, and how the collector had offered to buy his most prized possession - a rare jewel that had been passed down through his family for generations. Ibrahim had refused to sell the jewel, and Rashid had become enraged, threatening him with violence if he did not hand it over. Mark listened to Ibrahim's story with rapt attention, and he realized that there was a dark side to the world of adventure and exploration that he had never considered before. He knew that he had to write a story about Rashid and his collection, and he promised Ibrahim that he would do everything in his power to expose the truth. Years later, Mark sat with Ibrahim around a crackling fire in the desert, listening once again to the old man's stories. He asked Ibrahim if he had ever heard anything about Rashid or his collection since the last time they had spoken. Ibrahim grew quiet, his eyes flickering with a mixture of fear and anger. He told Mark that Rashid had disappeared, and that no one knew what had happened to him or his treasures. But Ibrahim suspected that the collector's obsession had consumed him, and that he had met a terrible fate in the desert. Mark nodded, his mind racing with the possibilities. He knew that there was a story here, a story that he had to uncover no matter the cost. But as he looked into Ibrahim's haunted eyes, he couldn't help but wonder if he was getting in over his head.
Dune! My favourite chapter is when Kynes is hallucinating in the desert, speaking with his father. What a great novel. Speaking of science fiction, are you planning on reviewing Kurt Vonnegut? I'm currently fascinated by him.
If youre thinking of reading Dune I would highly, highly suggest the podcast “Gom Jabbar” as an accompaniment! It’s funny and gives some really crucial backstories/details that will make the book much more understandable and enjoyable. And they always disclaim whether the episode contains spoilers or not.
Great review, appreciated! I think you in particular would love God Emperor, which to my view is the best book in the series and the culmination of the story that begins in Dune.
Agreed. I have read up to God Emperor and it blew me away! And the beauty is it needed the build up of the previous novels in order to come into being, it really just takes the entire lore of the series to the next level
Someone correct me if I'm wrong but Steven Errkison said that Herbert's world view was Nihilistic and I think that's why it appeals to Cliff and readers like myself who have a penchant for it
If you would consider another weird speculative fiction that is more literary and surrealist with some cool concepts I highly recommend China Mieville. The City and the City and Embassytown are really amazing as well as more fantastic Scar and Perdido Street Station.
Having reached middle age upon a wide-ranging diet of classics, modern literature, Tolkien (of course,) and equal parts nonfiction, I now find that the absence of science fiction was a grave mistake that I will likely never be able to mitigate. If I spend the next 30 years reading nothing but sci-fi, I’ll still regret this absence in my more formative years.
In a far-off land, where the rocky terrain was as unforgiving as the scorching sun, a father and his son were on a journey of discovery. As they approached a deep ravine that stretched out before them, they knew that they faced a daunting challenge. The father surveyed the ravine and saw that it was too wide to jump across and too deep to climb down. But he refused to give up. He looked around and saw that the nearby trees were covered in thick vines and twisted grasses. The father quickly got to work, gathering the vines and grasses and twisting them together into a sturdy rope. The son watched in amazement as the father tied the rope to a nearby tree, securing it tightly. The father went first, carefully making his way across the ravine, pulling himself hand over hand along the rough vine rope. The son followed closely behind, gripping the rope tightly and using all his strength to pull himself across the gaping chasm. The rope of vines was rough and uneven, and it scraped against their hands and clothes as they made their way across. But they pushed on, fueled by their determination and commitment to reason and critical thinking. In the end, they both made it safely to the other side of the ravine, panting and sweating, but proud of their accomplishment. They had used their knowledge and ingenuity to create a solution to a seemingly impossible obstacle. As they continued on their journey, the father and son reflected on the power of reason and critical thinking to help them overcome even the most daunting challenges. They knew that they would face many more obstacles in the future, but they were now better equipped to face them with courage and determination, and the knowledge that they could always find a way forward.
If you don't read the second book you absolutely miss the point of what he did in book 1, the consequences of what Paul did come into clear focus in book 2. He hints at it in the original, but fleshes out the real problem with power, especially the kind that Paul ultimately wields.
For any bookfans who have the same type of issues with science fiction that Cliff detailed in the video (like I myself have), I’d just wanted to take second to strongly urge you to read some of the works of the science fiction author Phillip K Dick. It’s science fiction, but, his masterworks are also so much than just science fiction and they’re like nothing else I’ve ever read. Some of it is inhumanly perfect. His top shelf stuff beautifully mashes up the sci-fi with philosophy, existentialism, Gnosticism, dystopia, postmodernism, poetry, religion, and nightmare logic (and other reoccurring subjects of interest that pop up in Dick’s works) in such a remarkable way that it defies my ability to be able to explain how it was ever even created in the first place. Like, I don’t know how any sentient or even any omnipotent being could have ever written a few of the books of Dicks that I’ve read. With other writers, when I contemplate the writing process that they must have went through writing whatever it is of theirs that I’m reading, I can see what they’re trying to do and understand what they going for. I can wrap my brain around the “How?” of what they wrote. But I can’t do that with Dick. I feel like it’s “too good” to exist somehow, yet here I am reading it and I don’t know how to resolve that paradox in my mind. It’s magic in the form of written language and I don’t believe in magic. The only other piece of art that I’ve experienced that arouses that same notion of it existing in defiance of the laws of nature and in the face of my inabilty to comprehend any process that could ever begat it is the song “It’s Alright, Ma (I’m Only Bleedin’) “ by Bob Dylan. Every single time I listen to that song, from the first time I heard it, and every single time I read certain Philip K Dick creations…those times are the closest things to genuine spiritual experiences I’ve yet to have in my lifetime. I would highly recommend Ubik, A Scanner Darkly, and Do Androids Dream of Electric Sleep? I’d go Ubik first. It’s probably his magnum opus and the best entry point into Dick too I’d say. And it’s fucking terrifying. I know that it haunts me anyway.
Absolutely agree with you about PKD who the 'literati' dismiss out of hand for his supposedly 'clunky' style. And yes, Ubik is a terrifying book, some of the creepiest and most disturbing passages of prose I have ever read.
I found PKD Man in the High Castle to be super underwhelming and I stopped reading PKD because of it. Is the rest of his work like MITHC? (heh, mi thc)
@@Mr.Charlie_Toldmeso I would definitely give another one of his books a try. I’ve encountered a couple that didn’t resonate with me, while others were truly transcendent.
@@Mr.Charlie_Toldmeso yes and no… you would have to let me know what you didn’t like about it for me to more properly answer your question. I love TMITHC (nice on the “THC” catch, btw, haaaa-from now on when partaking in herbal inhalations, I will refer to the activity with the phrase “going to the high castle”), but I can see how some readers might not like it. You cannot go into that book with expectations of any kind and have them pay out. It’s just not gonna be what you think it’s gonna be about. And Dick is the ultimate “show, don’t tell” author to me. He gives you his vision without holding your hand and telling you what it’s supposed to mean. You have to do quite a bit of thinking outside of the actual text of what he wrote in his novels to really take away what is intended for you take away from them. And that’s not for everyone, I suppose.
i got a plot for a book for you. The possible plot that could be an undertone for this conversation could be a thrilling adventure story that follows Mark's quest to uncover the truth about Rashid and his collection. As he delves deeper into the mystery, Mark discovers that Rashid's obsession with the desert and its treasures was more dangerous than he could have ever imagined. Along the way, Mark encounters a variety of characters, including treasure hunters, black market dealers, and even dangerous criminals who will stop at nothing to get their hands on Rashid's treasures. As Mark gets closer to the truth, he finds himself in increasingly perilous situations, facing danger and betrayal at every turn. Through it all, Mark must confront the darker side of his own obsession with adventure, and question whether the truth is worth the risk. As he uncovers the secrets of Rashid's collection, Mark realizes that the true treasure he has been seeking all along is something much deeper and more meaningful than any material object could ever be.
They get rid of AI but make new ways for humans to be "enhanced" and be able to carry on highly complex tasks that computers were used to do, which speaks of the deeper discourse that Herbert underlines throughout the other books as well as this one.
I generally am not into science fiction a whole lot myself besides Ballard and Dick. But they do something really special and different with the genre. Always messing with your expectations and touching on stuff you wouldn’t expect. But I agree, Herbert did a fantastic job with this book. I wondered if I would dig it, but the moment I picked it up, I couldn’t put it down and I did end up reading it in about a week. I was greatly greatly surprised and happy. The only thing I disliked is the ending kinda felt abrupt to me lol which says something speaking that it’s already 800 pages. But yeah, I kinda wanna read the others, but I have similar feelings to you, that they should just leave stuff to the imagination and finished it off, or Atleast just keep it to like two books. I dunno. Star War very clearly copied Dune lol but what didn’t Star Wars copy? Hyperbole obviously, but Dune and The Hidden Fortress and a few other things. Lucas has no shame.
I know youll probably not continue on with the series, but Ill just say what happens with the protagonist and the archetype you mention... umm well lets just say I think you'll be surprised. Great video Im really glad you decided to read this.
i'd avoid the last two sequels because they get very weird (thought that might be a part of the draw), but everything until builds on the themes of the original book and never felt like a sequel just for its own sake
i do understand your point about the sequels, but I really really suggest you read at least messiah. that book just perfectly hammers down the direction of events hinted at in the first book.
Would love to see you read the First Law trilogy by Joe Abercrombie. Quick read and plot-light, but very interesting character. Fantasy for people who don’t read fantasy.
Star Trek was inspired by Dune in ways. Star Wars lifted settings, character arcs, cultural elements, the force, etc from the first book. The first trilogy was great, but now feels like if Dune was taken somewhere else with a Lord of the Rings twist and not a critique of messiahs. Great video!
I'd highly recommend continuing the original series to at least book 4, I think you'd be surprised. Personally I think the books only get better and it's a shame they aren't as read.
I´ll write a sci-fi novel where all of the characters are ´neurotic and unsure of themselves´. Writing something like that would be fun and interesting.
I’m new to your channel, love the videos, but have you made a video about yourself?? The few videos I’ve seen have you mentioning moving to different parts of the country and telling brief anecdotes about your travels, super interesting. Also are these videos your main gig or do you have another job? Anyway thanks for making all these!
Loved your review. I have read this book several times and I never tire of it. One of my favourites of all time. I agree, a great book. The 80s movie…. Bad but laughable. Howevr, the recent movie which only covers half the book was very true to the story, was quite good.
I actually found Paul to be surprisingly well characterized for a science fiction novel, and as the story went on I feared for his inevitable loss of humanity. It made his ascension to the throne a painful event.
Those B&N editions are so beautiful, but unwieldy. I've got the Dracula and Shakespeare ones, and bought some cheap paperbacks just so I could read them on the train
For the most underrated Dune content on RUclips check out Doc Sloan's Science Fiction Station channel There you'll find Doc's PhD thesis on Dune which includes Dune's place in SciFi history, major themes, influences, and character analysis. You'll also find a playlist on the Greek mythos origins of the Curse of House Atraides. Join us on Thursday nights for bookclub. Doc reads and responds to all comments in the live feed! We'd luv to see you at the Dog House!
Paul's motivation was to avenge his father. He has also been trained to rule, so everything he does is staying true to how he has been formed. He's certainly not Hamlet, you are right!
The Shell: Memoir Of a Hidden Observer by Mostafa Khalifa. This book has been banned in Syria by the Government, not by the citizens whom loved and respected the book, those who got a hold of it illegally. The government didn't want people inside or outside the country to know about the book. This book is not politic based, it is rather a compelling story of the author who had been put in prison and blamed guilty of acts he had not committed. The story has graceful high ups and gruesome down lows, and so many different scenarios happening through out the book, making the book an absolute page turner. I read the book in Arabic, but the book is translated to English and people are giving the translator a lot of credit for his accurate translation on Amazon reviews. So check the book out I promise you will be surprised.
does anyone remember him talking about that book where theres this middle eastern guy who's running away from the fact that he killed his wife or something? something about impoverished middle of nowhere Islamic communities and an woman who liked to drink? ive been looking for the vid where clif mentioned this book but i cant seem to find it something like "letters from the east" i think??
I'm curious if you'd like the sci-fi books of Kim Stanley Robinson. He's very much a sci-fi guy but his book are much more about interpersonal conflicts, environmentalism, and politics.
If you're still in the mood for some crazy philosophical/theological sci-fi I would recommend Ada Palmer's excellent Terra Ignota series. It's lesser known and bit of a marmite book (you either love it or hate it), as it so happens I love it, and if you appreciate the phil/theo side of Dune I have a feeling you might too. I've spent the last two and a half years studying the humanities and it always stuns me when i come to the crux of an issue and realise Palmer has already addressed it in some (usually quite sophisticated) form. The books are a bit crazy, and upon reflection hard to compare to many others. Consider yourself encouraged and warned.
I've read Dune three times, the whole series once. I liked it, but Im increasingly encountering readers who hate it because they claim Herbert was a horrible writer, no style. In essence the criticism is that Dune has great ideas, but its written in a clunky style. I disagree, but there you go.
So a year ago I liked and watched this. I think. I watch so many of these. I think. I always find I have to read before I watch and if I’m reading something else, for example. This year has been the year of Perceval Everett, however. Dune “Prophecy.” Just finished latest episode and had me look up “Frank Herbert Dune” on RUclips and here we are. “Recommend Jodoworskys Dune” That was me a year ago here…
Science Fiction like Fantasy is one ot those genres where only 10% of what is written is actually the genre and the rest appear to thinks its all about the flash and colours. Most if not all true SciFi has significant and immediate philosophical implications. If you consider that an oddity, outlier or unexpected bonus, then you must either be unfamiliar with the true masters and pioneers of the genre or you can’t tell the difference anyway.
I can’t watch this review right now because I’ve been meaning to read this book, but I’m writing this comment to remind myself to come back to this video in the future.
The only booktuber I like to sit and watch the full 30-minute review
best youtube page on the youtube
Same here
"All governments suffer a recurring problem: Power attracts pathological personalities. It is not that power corrupts but that it is magnetic to the corruptible. Such people have a tendency to become drunk on violence, a condition to which they are quickly addicted."
- Frank Herbert, Chapterhouse: Dune
I loved books 4,5 and 6, and of course was obsessed with first 3
I have never stood the hatred for the last 2, I just loved the arc, the action and the second big theme, first is of course to be wary of leaders, but second theme is about love as a catalyst, as a wild card.
5 and 6 allow that wildness in the Atreides line still flow through, especially Odrade. That the BG finally realise it has some purpose, but are still scared by it, and those with it still bury deep the true depths of it.
All back to Jessica, who’s love for Leto began this incredible story.
Paul’s love for Chani
The twins love for each other
Alia and D
The God Emperor, S and H, and of course D
Such incredible books❤
Gotta respect a man trying to avoid spoilers to his listeners about a book that’s almost sixty years old
Classics will always be new to someone!
Yeah, this statement I see a lot on old books and movies, but it makes no sense. I would argue most people alive on earth don't even know what Dune is and maybe only think it's a new movie. Spoiler warnings are always a necessity.
@@NightTimeDayExactly
@@joshramirez7Absolutely! I keep saying that myself but everyone just says: "Oh well it's your fault you haven't read something in 60+ years!"
I would be interested to see what you would think of Herbert's sequel to this, Dune Messiah. It (sorta) completes Paul's story and expands a lot of the themes you (and I) love bout this novel, such as cycles, the weight of massive responsibility, and the dangers of charisma, wwaayyy more. When I read it, it made me appreciate the first book even more. Highly recommend it! Plus, it's like a fraction of the length of Dune.
I think Dune Messiah it's integral to Dune's themes. It easy to see Paul as a hero to the fremen and the rest of the universe without Messiah nailing the point with it's commentary about power dynamics, fanatism and populism.
@@Parainsomne Yeah, big agree there. You can get a bit of it at the end of the first book, but I do feel like you have to read between the lines a bit. Messiah just ties it all together so well. It’s an excellent subversion.
None of the sequels ever come close to matching Dune's power, but you really should read Children of Dune as well to complete the Atreides saga. It completes Paul's storyline and begins the story of his son. I've come to value both books more over the years, with reservations.
God-Emperor of Dune is pretty much a waste of time. Herbert was starting to lose the plot at this point.
@@squamish4244 Disagree. I don't think Dune works at all without Messiah.
@@onepiecefan74 Dune works as a stand-alone hero's journey - a hero's journey with hints that it's going to go wrong, with a reluctant hero, but a hero's journey nonetheless. To deconstruct the hero's journey, that's where Dune Messiah comes in. To understand where Herbert was going with all of this, you need Children of Dune as well. But I and countless other people think Dune works just fine on its own. We all also think it's a much better book than any of the sequels.
So, I too disagree. I think Dune works just fine on its own. It's an opinion, you know, and we're all allowed to have them.
Dune Messiah and Children of Dune definitely don't have nearly as strong narratives or all the complex interweaving layers of the original and are not nearly as entertaining, which is part of a book's job, Herbert didn't just set out to exposition dump his philosophy all over us.
I respect your aversion to sequels. Düne Messiah was intended as the ending to the first book however, and was cut for length to be released later. I’d recommend reading it. It’s a natural endpoint for this part of the story, and many argue the original narrative is incomplete without it.
Finally! Dune - the entire series of 6 books, not just the first book - is a ritual reread for me every 10 years or so. And guess what? I always get something else from it. Hint: every book is breaking the expectations set up in previous books.
This book can be read as a standalone, but if you do that you really miss out on the true message of the dune story as Herbert imagined it. In order to get the full story, one really ought to read the first 4 books, ending with God Emperor of Dune. And in my opinion (as a person who loves this entire universe) the 4th book is just perfect ending. amazing story all together.
Really happy to see you liked it
Nice epiphany on the cycles thing! (around 22:00). This is part of what’s so great about Dune-all the ecological, religious, political, and philosophical dimensions of it make for such rich fodder for discussion.
My dad got me into Dune when I was a kid and it and the entire universe created by Herbert is my favourite of all time. So glad you have gotten around to reading it despite it not really being your usual fare. Love your reviews, Cliff, keep it up ✊️
I know you’ll likely wait a while for another sci fi book, and I see some other people recommending stuff that’s pretty good, but man, if you do anything else, you gotta do Book of the New Sun. Just like… there’s no competition. Wolfe’s style is most comparable to Proust, Nabokov, and Joyce. And because part of what you like about Dune is the way things are revealed indirectly, you’ll just absolutely lose your shit for New Sun. It’s available as Shadow and Claw, Sword and Citadel, and Urth of the New Sun. 4 volumes of one book + a coda/sequel novel that’s very much worth it.
Was about to recommend it. An absolutely rewarding puzzle-box of a book.
I’m hungry for more alzabo
Tolkien, Wolfe and Herbert. No competition after that those are the grand masters of speculative fiction.
Maaann!! This was not a review I ever wanted you to do, but sure has been my favorite of yours. Love this type of deep really prepared reviews. Good job!
Literally finished the main story today (Appendices left) and decided to search a bit for it wondering if you had a review and you posted one yesterday, now that's a coincidence.
Felt a very interesting mix of emotions at the ending: sadness because I expected it to last more looking at the number of pages left, awe at the journey and the ending, and incredible excitement for what's to come.
I'm feeling the same way I do when I discover a story that ends up consuming a large part of my life, so you could say I enjoyed the book!
That was the most Cliff Sargent opening yet
I can understand that you do not want to read the sequels but honestly Dune Messiah is the original ending to the first book. Those two books were supposed to be published as one but only later split apart. It really finishes Pauls's Story in a unique way. The story was not supposed to end with Dune it was not about Herbert adding another book after success but it was planned out to end with the story of Dune Messiah (for Paul, not the universe). Dune Messiah is a fairly quick read and I would really look forward to seeing your opinion on this "sequel" which really just is the natural ending to Paul's story. For me personally, it also took the story from the early 20s to an even more adult type of book.
The second book also completes the last real cycle in the series I would argue.
Kind of spoiler:
In God Emporer of Dune the cycles of humanity get shattered with godlike precision and foreseeing.
I agree! Messiah is not a shlocky sci-fi sequel any more than Dune is a shlocky sci-fi novel. Everything he said about appreciating the ending made me wish he read Messiah too, it is the true end to Herbert's philosophy on the kind of leader Paul is.
The character Liet Kynes is based on the famous horticulturist Luther Burbank. Herbert lived and worked at the local newspaper of the same town Burbank made his career at.
Read Dune at 17, absolutely loved it and the rest of the trilogy, probably perfect time in my life to read it, never re-read it because of my fond memories but consider it the best SF novel, along with Foundation series and Neuromancer.
I’m ‘a feyd’ of what you’ll think of Dune! I’m watching timidly… like a Shy-Hulud
I really dislike that many people look down on sci fi and fantasy, and praise dune as literary sci fi. As if most sci fi is all about laser guns and spaceship fights. Its a genre that aims to explore humanity. I really recomend something like childhoods end for someone who wants to get in to sci fi but is a bit skeptical of it having any literary value. Sci fi is a great way to explore philosofical questions and questions about humanity in a way that isn't spoon fed to you
I highly recommend reading the next 2 books for the series, Herbert explores the dark side of the messiah narrative
It's great to see you step out of your comfort zone a little and even better to see that you enjoyed a sci-fi book. I haven't read Dune yet, and this video has reminded me I need to fix that. Do you plan on reviewing more genre fiction for the channel?
Just finished it and I am blown away. Dune Messiah next up
Recently rediscovered my inner book nerd. The library, and their used book store there, have been making my addiction sustainable. While I'm mixed on Better Help, I do struggle with my mental health and go to regular therapy. I loved what you said about books being a part of keeping mentally healthy. I think I'm the same way; without new ideas, my mind like turns on itself and gets sick.
New to your channel, but I'm kind of hooked. You're much more literate than me and I get excited when I catch a reference. Great work and thank you for making videos.
24:05 "I'd like to read a science fiction novel where everyone is a complete neurotic and totally unsure of themselves, and often looks like a complete moron, going through life, doing their thing, dealing with the unbelievable, vast, new technology and whathaveyou."
You pretty much described Philip K Dick's entire bibiliography. I'd give Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep? a try. The "deep, dark, dirty, mysterious nature which is inherent to existence" you describe is one of his most prevalent themes. And I suppose it would be, given that he was schizophrenic.
Yeah, when he was detailing what he liked about the book and what he does and doesn’t like about science fiction, the reoccurring thought “Shit, that’s PKD down to a fucking “T” right there” kept popping up in my noggin.
I always suggest Ubik as the entry point to start with PKD because it’s the most Dickian of all of his works, but DADOES is also a good jumping off point as well. It was my personal doorway into Dick’s drug-fueled nightmare universe of intangible non-counterfeit realities. His finest works stand above of all other literary creations as a lingering specter in my mind that wraps me up in it’s shade. A shade that i can never not be draped by if I ever would desire such a thing. Dick’s mind beautifully haunts me. It’s like he shows you the face of God…and it’s an ugly face…but you cannot quite ever avert your eyes away from its gaze. To read Dick and to at least somewhat understand Dick, you mist imbibe sips of the elixir from the cup of madness he proffers and that insane tincture sloshes down your throat and becomes a part of you that can’t ever shake away.
This description also works for the character in The Expanse series. They aren't all that neurotic, mostly, but they do struggle with their situation quite a lot, both because of new technology and because of the sociopolitical landscape in the story (A Cold War between Earth and Mars, with blue collar workers from the Asteroid Belt caught in between).
I’m pleasantly surprised to see you enjoyed Dune so much! Please do check out the two film adaptations, they’re worth your time. Also, I’d love to see you at some point review The Dispossessed by Ursula K Le Guin.
Large parts of Messiah were written concurrently with Dune and cut by Herbert. It's a very satisfying continuation and should you choose you could stop there. Another option is to keep reading to the 4th book, God Emperor of Dune, which wraps up nearly everything you could want. It's also a very bizarre (but great) book and really more of a philosophy text than it is a scifi novel concerned with plot. Herbert started a new story arc with books 5 and 6 but fans don't consider them as good as the previous novels and he unfortunately died before he could finish it.
My favorite science fiction author is Ursula K. LeGuin. There's a lot of emotions on her books, so maybe you won't like this much, but I don't know if there're sentimentality in those terms. But certainly, she works a lot with philosophical themes and have, in my opinion, a great prose style.
I love Ursula. The left hand of darkness is one of my most beloved novels
Mine too. Read it last year. She was a superb writer
Please read Dune Messiah, it's a great epilogue and conclusion to the original Dune story. The rest of the series is great too however.
Dune is a classic, the sequels are not and do appeal to more scifi readers. He will not read it and that is totally fine because Dune is great by itself
You mentioned one of my favorite elements of the book, but kind of glossed over why it’s so cool, so I’m going to expand.
It’s a very cool (sort of fractal) irony built into the story. In the broader universe, by far the most valuable substance is the spice, for reasons too numerous and complex to list.
But on Arrakis, the only place where the spice is found, by far the most valuable substance is just, simply… water.
That intro is chef's kiss. Love this review! Glad you read it.
It’s very hard for me to get into sci-fi books, and most of them have something to do with machines and technology. That’s the central focus. What I love so much about Dune is that it tries to avoid technology and it’s more like a traditional fantasy book, and that it’s focused on the characters and the world, and what you can do with nature and your body and your own abilities.
Spoilers don't matter. It's a Greek Tragedy. The foreknowing only increments the weight of doom.
As far as style, Dune is written like an Attic vase. A moment is flattened, and each character's role within it revealed in its entirety. The narrative doesn't flow so much as it rotates a sequence of static images, unchanging and unchangeable in their significance to one another.
Haven’t read Dune yet so I don’t know about Herbert’s writing, but yours is lovely. An Attic vase. What a visual description! Well done.
Thanks for noting Lesley Blanch. I bought The Sabres of Paradise immediately. Read Dune eons ago. Will read again.
I'm not a sci-fi reader either, but I was really hooked by Three Body Problem by Cixin Liu. Hard recommend! Really interesting exercise in thought experiments.
In the sandy deserts of the planet Arrakis, a group of travelers gathered around a campfire to share stories and experiences. The wind howled around them, whipping up the sand and dust, but they huddled close, their faces lit by the flickering flames.
One of the travelers, a weathered man with piercing blue eyes, began to tell a tale of his travels across the desert. He spoke of the harsh conditions and the dangers that lurked in the shifting sands, but he also spoke of the beauty and mystery of the desert.
As he spoke, the other travelers listened intently, their eyes wide with wonder. They hung on his every word, savoring the details of his journey and imagining themselves in his place.
He spoke of the towering sand dunes that rose up to meet the sky, their rippling surfaces glistening in the bright sun. He described the way the sand shifted and changed with each passing breeze, creating patterns that seemed to dance and sway.
The man also spoke of the people he had met along the way, the hardy tribes of the desert who had learned to survive in the harshest of conditions. He described their tough, weathered faces and their sturdy, muscular bodies, honed by a life of hard work and constant struggle.
He told of the way they moved across the sands, with a grace and fluidity that spoke of a deep connection to the desert itself. He described the colorful fabrics they wore, the intricate patterns and designs that spoke of a rich cultural heritage.
As the man spoke, the others around the fire began to share their own stories. They spoke of their travels across the desert, of the dangers they had faced and the wonders they had seen. They shared tips and tricks for survival in the harsh conditions, and they marveled at the beauty and complexity of the desert.
And as the fire crackled and popped, and the wind howled around them, they felt a sense of camaraderie and connection. They were all travelers on the same journey, seeking knowledge and understanding in a world of mystery and wonder. And they knew that they would continue to face challenges and obstacles along the way, but they were ready to face them with courage and determination, knowing that they were not alone.
Part 5: The sun began to set, casting a warm golden glow over the sand dunes. The members of the community gathered around the flickering fire, eagerly awaiting the arrival of the storyteller. The old man, with his weathered face and long white beard, arrived and took his seat at the center of the group. As he began to speak, the eyes of the crowd were fixed intently upon him.
Part 6: As the storyteller wove his tale of Sariyah, the community members leaned in closer, their faces illuminated by the warm light of the fire. They were engrossed in the story, so much so that they did not hear the sound of approaching footsteps. Suddenly, a group of bandits emerged from the darkness, their faces obscured by the shadows. The community members were caught off guard, and they scrambled to their feet in a panic.
Part 7: The bandits began to attack, brandishing their weapons and shouting insults. The community members tried to fight back, but they were outnumbered and outmatched. The sound of clashing steel and shouting filled the air as the battle raged on. Despite the chaos, the storyteller continued to speak, his voice growing louder and more forceful as he described Sariyah's unwavering determination and bravery in the face of danger.
Part 8: Slowly but surely, the community members began to rally, drawing strength and inspiration from the tale being told. They fought back with renewed courage and determination, refusing to give up in the face of overwhelming adversity. The battle was fierce and brutal, but as the sun began to rise over the desert, the bandits were finally driven off, defeated by the strength and resilience of the community.
As the fire burned low and the last of the bandits fled into the night, the community members looked at the storyteller with reverence and appreciation. They knew that they had faced a great challenge and emerged victorious, and they had the support and guidance of their fellow community members, as well as the lessons they had learned from the stories told around the campfire.
The journalist, Mark, had always been fascinated by stories of adventure and exploration. As a young boy, he spent hours poring over books about far-off lands and the intrepid explorers who braved their dangers.
As he grew older, Mark became a journalist, and he used his passion for adventure to inspire his writing. He traveled to far-flung corners of the world, documenting the stories of those who risked everything in pursuit of their dreams.
One day, while traveling through the desert, Mark met an old man named Ibrahim. Ibrahim was a storyteller, and he had a wealth of knowledge about the desert and its secrets. Mark was captivated by Ibrahim's tales, and he spent many hours listening to him speak.
During one of their conversations, Mark mentioned the story he had heard about the mysterious collector who had amassed a vast collection of treasures from the desert. Ibrahim's face grew grave, and he told Mark a story that he had never shared with anyone before.
The collector's name was Rashid, and he was a wealthy man who had made his fortune in the oil business. Rashid was obsessed with the desert, and he spent years exploring its secrets and collecting its treasures.
But as Rashid's collection grew, so too did his obsession. He became paranoid and reclusive, and he began to hoard his treasures away from the world, refusing to share them with anyone.
Ibrahim told Mark about a time when he had met Rashid, and how the collector had offered to buy his most prized possession - a rare jewel that had been passed down through his family for generations. Ibrahim had refused to sell the jewel, and Rashid had become enraged, threatening him with violence if he did not hand it over.
Mark listened to Ibrahim's story with rapt attention, and he realized that there was a dark side to the world of adventure and exploration that he had never considered before. He knew that he had to write a story about Rashid and his collection, and he promised Ibrahim that he would do everything in his power to expose the truth.
Years later, Mark sat with Ibrahim around a crackling fire in the desert, listening once again to the old man's stories. He asked Ibrahim if he had ever heard anything about Rashid or his collection since the last time they had spoken.
Ibrahim grew quiet, his eyes flickering with a mixture of fear and anger. He told Mark that Rashid had disappeared, and that no one knew what had happened to him or his treasures. But Ibrahim suspected that the collector's obsession had consumed him, and that he had met a terrible fate in the desert.
Mark nodded, his mind racing with the possibilities. He knew that there was a story here, a story that he had to uncover no matter the cost. But as he looked into Ibrahim's haunted eyes, he couldn't help but wonder if he was getting in over his head.
I love your novel 😍
Thank you for knowing more about Dune: The Book than most reviewers have known about Dune: The Movie.
I'd love to see you review Tuareg! It really makes the desert feel like a living, breathing character
Is that a novel?
I read Dune at 14yo. I loved it then and even if it wasn't geared for that age, it worked quite well for me.
Dune! My favourite chapter is when Kynes is hallucinating in the desert, speaking with his father. What a great novel.
Speaking of science fiction, are you planning on reviewing Kurt Vonnegut? I'm currently fascinated by him.
Also, if you like Dune and film history, "Jodorowsky's Dune" documentary is a must
I have a "Fear is the mind-killer" tattoo ^_^
If youre thinking of reading Dune I would highly, highly suggest the podcast “Gom Jabbar” as an accompaniment! It’s funny and gives some really crucial backstories/details that will make the book much more understandable and enjoyable. And they always disclaim whether the episode contains spoilers or not.
Great review, appreciated!
I think you in particular would love God Emperor, which to my view is the best book in the series and the culmination of the story that begins in Dune.
Agreed. I have read up to God Emperor and it blew me away! And the beauty is it needed the build up of the previous novels in order to come into being, it really just takes the entire lore of the series to the next level
God Emperor is the best one IMO as well. Just so good.
I really want to see you review Herodotus the histories. It reads like a novel. It’s really fun to read. At least the holland translation.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong but Steven Errkison said that Herbert's world view was Nihilistic and I think that's why it appeals to Cliff and readers like myself who have a penchant for it
If you would consider another weird speculative fiction that is more literary and surrealist with some cool concepts I highly recommend China Mieville. The City and the City and Embassytown are really amazing as well as more fantastic Scar and Perdido Street Station.
And the guy looks like scary skinhead you wouldn’t wanna mess with😅
Thanks for recommending Blanch's book. Also it's known Heberet was inspired by T. A. Lawrence account of his campaign in Arabia
Having reached middle age upon a wide-ranging diet of classics, modern literature, Tolkien (of course,) and equal parts nonfiction, I now find that the absence of science fiction was a grave mistake that I will likely never be able to mitigate. If I spend the next 30 years reading nothing but sci-fi, I’ll still regret this absence in my more formative years.
You should Hyperion cantos.
In a far-off land, where the rocky terrain was as unforgiving as the scorching sun, a father and his son were on a journey of discovery. As they approached a deep ravine that stretched out before them, they knew that they faced a daunting challenge.
The father surveyed the ravine and saw that it was too wide to jump across and too deep to climb down. But he refused to give up. He looked around and saw that the nearby trees were covered in thick vines and twisted grasses.
The father quickly got to work, gathering the vines and grasses and twisting them together into a sturdy rope. The son watched in amazement as the father tied the rope to a nearby tree, securing it tightly.
The father went first, carefully making his way across the ravine, pulling himself hand over hand along the rough vine rope. The son followed closely behind, gripping the rope tightly and using all his strength to pull himself across the gaping chasm.
The rope of vines was rough and uneven, and it scraped against their hands and clothes as they made their way across. But they pushed on, fueled by their determination and commitment to reason and critical thinking.
In the end, they both made it safely to the other side of the ravine, panting and sweating, but proud of their accomplishment. They had used their knowledge and ingenuity to create a solution to a seemingly impossible obstacle.
As they continued on their journey, the father and son reflected on the power of reason and critical thinking to help them overcome even the most daunting challenges. They knew that they would face many more obstacles in the future, but they were now better equipped to face them with courage and determination, and the knowledge that they could always find a way forward.
If you don't read the second book you absolutely miss the point of what he did in book 1, the consequences of what Paul did come into clear focus in book 2. He hints at it in the original, but fleshes out the real problem with power, especially the kind that Paul ultimately wields.
For any bookfans who have the same type of issues with science fiction that Cliff detailed in the video (like I myself have), I’d just wanted to take second to strongly urge you to read some of the works of the science fiction author Phillip K Dick. It’s science fiction, but, his masterworks are also so much than just science fiction and they’re like nothing else I’ve ever read. Some of it is inhumanly perfect. His top shelf stuff beautifully mashes up the sci-fi with philosophy, existentialism, Gnosticism, dystopia, postmodernism, poetry, religion, and nightmare logic (and other reoccurring subjects of interest that pop up in Dick’s works) in such a remarkable way that it defies my ability to be able to explain how it was ever even created in the first place. Like, I don’t know how any sentient or even any omnipotent being could have ever written a few of the books of Dicks that I’ve read. With other writers, when I contemplate the writing process that they must have went through writing whatever it is of theirs that I’m reading, I can see what they’re trying to do and understand what they going for. I can wrap my brain around the “How?” of what they wrote. But I can’t do that with Dick. I feel like it’s “too good” to exist somehow, yet here I am reading it and I don’t know how to resolve that paradox in my mind. It’s magic in the form of written language and I don’t believe in magic.
The only other piece of art that I’ve experienced that arouses that same notion of it existing in defiance of the laws of nature and in the face of my inabilty to comprehend any process that could ever begat it is the song “It’s Alright, Ma (I’m Only Bleedin’) “ by Bob Dylan. Every single time I listen to that song, from the first time I heard it, and every single time I read certain Philip K Dick creations…those times are the closest things to genuine spiritual experiences I’ve yet to have in my lifetime.
I would highly recommend Ubik, A Scanner Darkly, and Do Androids Dream of Electric Sleep? I’d go Ubik first. It’s probably his magnum opus and the best entry point into Dick too I’d say. And it’s fucking terrifying. I know that it haunts me anyway.
Damn I can relate heavily to this, even the song reference is spot on!
Absolutely agree with you about PKD who the 'literati' dismiss out of hand for his supposedly 'clunky' style. And yes, Ubik is a terrifying book, some of the creepiest and most disturbing passages of prose I have ever read.
I found PKD Man in the High Castle to be super underwhelming and I stopped reading PKD because of it. Is the rest of his work like MITHC? (heh, mi thc)
@@Mr.Charlie_Toldmeso I would definitely give another one of his books a try. I’ve encountered a couple that didn’t resonate with me, while others were truly transcendent.
@@Mr.Charlie_Toldmeso yes and no… you would have to let me know what you didn’t like about it for me to more properly answer your question. I love TMITHC (nice on the “THC” catch, btw, haaaa-from now on when partaking in herbal inhalations, I will refer to the activity with the phrase “going to the high castle”), but I can see how some readers might not like it. You cannot go into that book with expectations of any kind and have them pay out. It’s just not gonna be what you think it’s gonna be about. And Dick is the ultimate “show, don’t tell” author to me. He gives you his vision without holding your hand and telling you what it’s supposed to mean. You have to do quite a bit of thinking outside of the actual text of what he wrote in his novels to really take away what is intended for you take away from them. And that’s not for everyone, I suppose.
Nice review , man.Perhaps you can review Shadow Of The Wind by Carlos Ruiz Zafon , in the future.Would love to see your take on the book.I loved it.
One of my favorite books! A hidden treasure but not without its flaws.
i got a plot for a book for you.
The possible plot that could be an undertone for this conversation could be a thrilling adventure story that follows Mark's quest to uncover the truth about Rashid and his collection. As he delves deeper into the mystery, Mark discovers that Rashid's obsession with the desert and its treasures was more dangerous than he could have ever imagined.
Along the way, Mark encounters a variety of characters, including treasure hunters, black market dealers, and even dangerous criminals who will stop at nothing to get their hands on Rashid's treasures. As Mark gets closer to the truth, he finds himself in increasingly perilous situations, facing danger and betrayal at every turn.
Through it all, Mark must confront the darker side of his own obsession with adventure, and question whether the truth is worth the risk. As he uncovers the secrets of Rashid's collection, Mark realizes that the true treasure he has been seeking all along is something much deeper and more meaningful than any material object could ever be.
I'm reading Children of Dune right now and sometimes I'm like "huh, I thought I knew the language in which this is written". Still, a great read.
They get rid of AI but make new ways for humans to be "enhanced" and be able to carry on highly complex tasks that computers were used to do, which speaks of the deeper discourse that Herbert underlines throughout the other books as well as this one.
I generally am not into science fiction a whole lot myself besides Ballard and Dick. But they do something really special and different with the genre. Always messing with your expectations and touching on stuff you wouldn’t expect. But I agree, Herbert did a fantastic job with this book. I wondered if I would dig it, but the moment I picked it up, I couldn’t put it down and I did end up reading it in about a week. I was greatly greatly surprised and happy. The only thing I disliked is the ending kinda felt abrupt to me lol which says something speaking that it’s already 800 pages. But yeah, I kinda wanna read the others, but I have similar feelings to you, that they should just leave stuff to the imagination and finished it off, or Atleast just keep it to like two books. I dunno.
Star War very clearly copied Dune lol but what didn’t Star Wars copy? Hyperbole obviously, but Dune and The Hidden Fortress and a few other things. Lucas has no shame.
I know youll probably not continue on with the series, but Ill just say what happens with the protagonist and the archetype you mention... umm well lets just say I think you'll be surprised. Great video Im really glad you decided to read this.
i'd avoid the last two sequels because they get very weird (thought that might be a part of the draw), but everything until builds on the themes of the original book and never felt like a sequel just for its own sake
i do understand your point about the sequels, but I really really suggest you read at least messiah. that book just perfectly hammers down the direction of events hinted at in the first book.
Would love to see you read the First Law trilogy by Joe Abercrombie. Quick read and plot-light, but very interesting character. Fantasy for people who don’t read fantasy.
Great series. Glokta was such a fantastic character, felt so damn real.
Star Trek was inspired by Dune in ways. Star Wars lifted settings, character arcs, cultural elements, the force, etc from the first book. The first trilogy was great, but now feels like if Dune was taken somewhere else with a Lord of the Rings twist and not a critique of messiahs. Great video!
Star Wars😏
10:27 - Completely addictive. No way to quit. Deadly if stopped
"Fear is the mind-killer"
I'd highly recommend continuing the original series to at least book 4, I think you'd be surprised. Personally I think the books only get better and it's a shame they aren't as read.
Beautiful copy of Dune and it looks like gold.
I´ll write a sci-fi novel where all of the characters are ´neurotic and unsure of themselves´. Writing something like that would be fun and interesting.
This was a great review. A great review.
Love this book! Great review!
I’m new to your channel, love the videos, but have you made a video about yourself?? The few videos I’ve seen have you mentioning moving to different parts of the country and telling brief anecdotes about your travels, super interesting. Also are these videos your main gig or do you have another job? Anyway thanks for making all these!
PLEASE talk about William Burroughs
Loved your review. I have read this book several times and I never tire of it. One of my favourites of all time. I agree, a great book. The 80s movie…. Bad but laughable. Howevr, the recent movie which only covers half the book was very true to the story, was quite good.
I actually found Paul to be surprisingly well characterized for a science fiction novel, and as the story went on I feared for his inevitable loss of humanity. It made his ascension to the throne a painful event.
I literally searched for this yesterday, this is so weird, can’t be coincidence, perhaps we are interlinked like the fremen
I hope you’ll change your mind and give a try at least to Dune Messiah. As much as I loved the first book it only gets better from there.
Those B&N editions are so beautiful, but unwieldy. I've got the Dracula and Shakespeare ones, and bought some cheap paperbacks just so I could read them on the train
I just started reading the book. Great review and very informative. Thanks.
بنت الجسارة actually means brave girl/daughter(bent al jesarah)
When are you intending to read "Philosopher or Dog?" by Machado de Assis?
For the most underrated Dune content on RUclips check out Doc Sloan's Science Fiction Station channel
There you'll find Doc's PhD thesis on Dune which includes Dune's place in SciFi history, major themes, influences, and character analysis.
You'll also find a playlist on the Greek mythos origins of the Curse of House Atraides.
Join us on Thursday nights for bookclub. Doc reads and responds to all comments in the live feed! We'd luv to see you at the Dog House!
Paul's motivation was to avenge his father. He has also been trained to rule, so everything he does is staying true to how he has been formed. He's certainly not Hamlet, you are right!
The Shell: Memoir Of a Hidden Observer by Mostafa Khalifa.
This book has been banned in Syria by the Government, not by the citizens whom loved and respected the book, those who got a hold of it illegally.
The government didn't want people inside or outside the country to know about the book. This book is not politic based, it is rather a compelling story of the author who had been put in prison and blamed guilty of acts he had not committed. The story has graceful high ups and gruesome down lows, and so many different scenarios happening through out the book, making the book an absolute page turner.
I read the book in Arabic, but the book is translated to English and people are giving the translator a lot of credit for his accurate translation on Amazon reviews.
So check the book out I promise you will be surprised.
does anyone remember him talking about that book where theres this middle eastern guy who's running away from the fact that he killed his wife or something? something about impoverished middle of nowhere Islamic communities and an woman who liked to drink?
ive been looking for the vid where clif mentioned this book but i cant seem to find it
something like "letters from the east" i think??
There are many reviews of Dune on RUclips, this is by some distance the best.
A recommendation to make all your bits, voices and impressions into small shorts. They are highly entertaining.
Great review Courtois
14:30 --- And what do you know - she was right.... Because Lucas was inspired by it & by Asimov's 'Foundation', which you should read too.
Have you ever read "Time Enough for Love" Robert Heinlein?
24:24 - Maybe because you haven't read enough Cyberpunk (esp. Stephenson) & Urban SF (such as Miéville)
how do you read so fast? :0
I assume he listens to the audiobook.
@@hypemind612 Absolutely never.
@@BetterThanFoodBookReviews Then I am impressed. That's a lot to consume only from the page.
I'm curious if you'd like the sci-fi books of Kim Stanley Robinson. He's very much a sci-fi guy but his book are much more about interpersonal conflicts, environmentalism, and politics.
I think you don’t really get what Herbert was up to in the character of Paul without reading Dune Messiah.
One of my favourite books, and probably favourite series of all time.
If you're still in the mood for some crazy philosophical/theological sci-fi I would recommend Ada Palmer's excellent Terra Ignota series. It's lesser known and bit of a marmite book (you either love it or hate it), as it so happens I love it, and if you appreciate the phil/theo side of Dune I have a feeling you might too. I've spent the last two and a half years studying the humanities and it always stuns me when i come to the crux of an issue and realise Palmer has already addressed it in some (usually quite sophisticated) form. The books are a bit crazy, and upon reflection hard to compare to many others. Consider yourself encouraged and warned.
Thanks for that recommendation. Just added this to my reading list, it sounds like a phenomenal series.
Dune is a book mainly of big ideas.
For those who like detailed characters there is always Dostoievski🤗
I've read Dune three times, the whole series once. I liked it, but Im increasingly encountering readers who hate it because they claim Herbert was a horrible writer, no style. In essence the criticism is that Dune has great ideas, but its written in a clunky style. I disagree, but there you go.
So a year ago I liked and watched this. I think. I watch so many of these. I think. I always find I have to read before I watch and if I’m reading something else, for example. This year has been the year of Perceval Everett, however. Dune “Prophecy.” Just finished latest episode and had me look up “Frank Herbert Dune” on RUclips and here we are.
“Recommend Jodoworskys Dune”
That was me a year ago here…
Science Fiction like Fantasy is one ot those genres where only 10% of what is written is actually the genre and the rest appear to thinks its all about the flash and colours. Most if not all true SciFi has significant and immediate philosophical implications. If you consider that an oddity, outlier or unexpected bonus, then you must either be unfamiliar with the true masters and pioneers of the genre or you can’t tell the difference anyway.
24:05 neon genesis evangelion
I heard it described as "Star Wars for goths"
I can’t watch this review right now because I’ve been meaning to read this book, but I’m writing this comment to remind myself to come back to this video in the future.
Nts 15:45
When i read that part from princess erulan i was also reading ottoweiningers book ..and genius part same topic weird enough
VW actually released a Dune themed bug. Waiting for the Dr. Strangelove themed VW bug. "Is HE the ONE ?"