How much rust is in VW ID3 drum brakes after two years?
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- Опубликовано: 30 сен 2024
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As others have said, the ID cars already have regen on the back wheels, so low maintenance drum brakes is just good engineering on the part of VW.
IDs are RWD?
@@antoniocirino8444yep, rwd only. At least for now
@@antoniocirino8444 ID.3 are all RWD. The ID.4, Enyaq, Q4 e-tron & ID.5 are either RWD or AWD depending on model.
Also, rear drum brakes create less drag than rear disc brakes. That allows for EVs like VW IDs with drum brakes in the rear to have more regen done at the rear wheels compared to disc brakes.
Drum brakes is probably the best engineered part of the whole ID line-up...
Drum Brakes have real advantages for EVs. As recuperation is always active in EVs, around 80-90% of the brake torque is anyhow done by the motor. Brake performance on rear axle is really not an topic in EV use case. Drum brakes have almost no drag torque (compared to a disk) and less particle pollution, brings more range,or less consumption and is environmental friendly. In the ID3 with Electric parking Brake it is designed for lifetime. From my persoective a perfect solution and a kind of reinvention of an „old“ brake technology perfect fitted to the needs of EVs. Unfortunately most people do Not understand it…..
Drum brakes can have better braking performance than disc brakes. But they very easily overheat so it's basically one or two time performance. But on other hand, how many emergency stops does one make? Especially today, we have a tire traction problem, not the braking performance problem.
Exactly. The only thing that I would change would be to have aluminium drums instead as it doesn’t corrode plus it would improve suspension comfort. I believe Honda CRX HF in the 90s had it.
@@sindresvindal2290 Drum brakes are typically made from cast iron or steel rather than aluminum for several key reasons:
Thermal Conductivity and Heat Dissipation: Steel and cast iron have lower thermal conductivity compared to aluminum. This means that they can absorb and dissipate the heat generated by the friction between the brake shoes and the drum more slowly, preventing overheating and brake fade over time. Aluminum, while it can dissipate heat quickly, could lead to rapid changes in temperature that might affect brake performance and durability.
Strength and Durability: Steel and cast iron have higher tensile strength compared to aluminum, which makes them more resistant to the stresses and strains experienced during braking. They are less likely to warp or deform under high loads, ensuring consistent braking performance.
Wear Resistance: The braking action involves significant friction, and steel or cast iron has better wear resistance than aluminum. This means that drum brakes made from these materials will generally last longer before needing to be replaced or resurfaced.
Cost: Cast iron is typically less expensive than aluminum, making it a cost-effective choice for manufacturing drum brakes. This is important in the automotive industry, where cost reduction is a constant goal.
Coefficient of Friction: The materials used for making drum brakes are selected to have an optimal coefficient of friction with the brake shoes' lining material. Cast iron provides a good balance between performance and wear characteristics.
While aluminum is used in some brake components, particularly in disc brake calipers and some high-performance or lightweight brake rotors, it is generally not used for drum brakes due to the reasons mentioned above. However, there are some applications, such as in racing or high-performance vehicles, where aluminum brake drums may be used for their weight savings despite the potential trade-offs in heat management, wear, and cost.
@@darekmistrz4364 yeah , any type of brake is perfectly able to lock the wheels but discs have the possibility to disipate heat marginally better (you know it would be "much better" imo when i will see fluid cooled brakes with fan radiators :P until then it disks just mean better airflow on a tiny area ) .
For a drum brake, VW actually used a pretty big size for the ID.3, but perhaps because it is an EV they figured they wanted to play it safe. You have to admit it was a smart solution to use "antiquated" tech like drum brakes on a car as pricey as the ID.3 but the engineering principle on keeping it long lasting due to regen brake is sound.
Just cost reduction.
@@popaovidiu3282 Maintenance cost reduction, yes. For parts costs, probably not.
-- get a Chargehanger
ID4 also use drum brakes! But for this low Power EVs ist fine
@@sebastiankiesl1395Nothing to do with power. Dimensionning is in regards of weight and max speed.
These EV rust videos are very valuable 👍
@@karlInSanDiego exactly, use the brakes even lightly each drive and the rust on the discs will be gone (same as ICE) but with the benefit of less wear from regen braking!
At 4 years 80k kms I took my ev brakes apart to tidy up and lubricate, no replacement parts needed, and that’s with spirited driving
The ”disc” is called brake drum. If someone is wondering.
Drums on a car like this is a very good choice. Drum brakes have zero drag. They have very good braking performance. They are much better sealed compared to disks so they don't get pitted when you don't use them as much like on an EV. Where they actually suffer is cooling but since in a setup like this they don't see much action they are perfectly good enough. Another drawback can be that if water does pool inside and freeze they may lock up. On my car I have rear disks with drums inside for the parking brake. The drums inside and the parking brake are in perfect condition. The disks on the outside look like crap after two years and that's on a fossil car.
Just use your brakes properly every once in a while. Even the rear discs look perfectly fine on my car, and they're eight years old. And we even get salt here in the winter.
On EV's and hybrids the problem of brakes not getting used enough is of course bigger, so drums in the rear just might be a reasonable solution.
My fossil car has disc brakes front and back and they rust. I need to brake on purpose to keep rust away. I drive mainly countryside, no need to brake often. Rusting brakes are trouble for me. I need to avoid braking with the engine to prevent rusting discs.
@@samijokinen9246 Rusting disks should not be an issue in normal driving. if you go down any sort of hill or brake from 60mph once a week you've cleared ALL rust away. unless you drive like a grandma and engine brake everywhere... also brakes are much cheaper than ANY part of an engine
Fascinating to see old braking technology being reused, but those drum brakes look almost brand-new inside! Can’t believe you can read all the part numbers! Our polo rear drums in comparison…
It's cheaper, that's why it's used.
@@DoiPunctZero no, because it's an EV, the disks are taking rust because they're almost never used, like on every Tesla...
Look at a Toyota after 10 years, same thing.
@@DoiPunctZero They are presenting the big advantage of drum brakes on EV. They dont rust at all which is a problem and brake rotors. Usually drum breaks perform worse but are cheaper for some reason. Thats why many smaller cars use drum brakes on the rear and brake rotors on the front.
Yes, drum brakes are not as good as disc brakes. Yes they are cheaper than disc brakes. BUT if you never use your brakes in your commuter car, it is a lot better to have NON RUSTING drum brakes than disc brakes which look like rust cake after 1 year
Drum brakes are not entirely maintenance free. As u could see, dust builds up in the drums and needs to be removed from time to time. This ID3 is quite new but after years the springs will rust and retract poorer which increases drag. Discs are exposed but u can see if there is rust on it and brake excessivly or drive a while without regen if possible.
German but what a shit, from the beginning I have problems with the electric handbrake in my ID3 1st, it stucks/blocks almost everyday in wet conditions (Im Basque not German so u can imagine that weather in those terms its worst in the design country that in mine), When u release it putting the gear selector on D or R its blocked and you have to force it to run , I reported to my VW dealer like 5 times in those years till the handbrake finally as broken and the car was stopped for his security. 4 months in the garage cause the rear brakes handbrake was broken and were not spare parts for it, 4 months !! After that period they changed the servo and the actuator but not the drum pads which is the part that has contact with drums, so clever Vw!! So the problem continued as before, I reported but they never answered, you don't need to be a German engineer to guess that if the pads are bonded to the drums every wet day maybe the pads are the problem? I tell them to change the pads that I payed and problem its solved. Thats is not an electric car issue, its a general car issue. This was my 5th VW/Audi and the last.
Cheaper for the manufacturer and more business for the dealership when the automatic adjusters corrode and screw up.
If VW suckers enough idiots into going back to drum brakes, their marketing team all deserve huge raises.
These videos in Valdemar's shop are a treat! It's always interesting to see the variety of mechanical issues that you guys are able to show. You guys are a great team.
Drum brakes - that's called cost cutting :)
Not really. Discs on the rear are not needed
It is cost cutting, but not in the way you think - the cost cutting is for the owner mostly. This is because the rear brakes are almost never used, only in full emergency. The ID3 has the electric motor in the rear. When you are braking even quite hard, then first the friction brakes apply in the front, because that is where the majority of the braking force comes from. The front does about 70-80% of the braking, and the rear only has to do 20-30%. In most cases the electric motor is enough to provide this amount of braking in the rear and the rear brakes do nothing.
If they fitted standard disc brakes they would either need to install really expensive special rotors that do not rust easily, which would drive up the price of the car, or if they fitted standard parts you would have to replace them every year, since they'd get completely rusted, as they are never used.
If the electric motor was in the front, then they would have fitted disc brakes in the rear.
Tesla for example does not have this "problem" because Tesla still can't do brake blending even today. So every time you touch the brake pedal both the front and rear brakes are physically engaged. This is not the case on the ID3, where in the beginning of travel the brake pedal only engages the electric motor, and not the friction brakes, then the front brakes are phased in and in the very very end if absolutely necessary (near full emergency stop) come in the rear friction brakes.
thanks for the informative video. it was also my first look inside a drum brake and it's good to see that they are in perfect condition. i'm curious to see how long the front brake discs and the rear drum brakes will last on my id.4 gtx.
Fun video....as an old guy in Canada, pretty much all our older cars ( pre 80's) had drum brakes and not just on the rear. I still own and drive some classic MGB's and they still have rear drum brakes.
Not a bad idea for the rear of a smaller lighter EV actually.
In the area I live in they use an extraordinary amount of salt on the roads and a couple of winters of use in the old days and the undercarriage of our cars get pretty corroded.
Great video and Merry Christmas!!!!
Mike 🇨🇦 🍁
The drum break friction material is a pain in the Axx to replace. The break dust get trap in the housimg is not helping either. Last thing I wanna happen is a plume brake dust blown towards me When I pull the casing off.
@user-jh6vt8vx4v I've done hundreds of drum brake repairs/replacements, not that bad, wear a respirator, gloves and vacuum the brakes with a HEPA filter bag in your shop vacuum, spray area down with brake cleaner and you're covered. No big deal, in any case there is brake dust and crap in the disc brakes as well....not as much as drum brakes for sure, but it is still there.
Besides, on an EV likely won't have to do brake replacements for a long, long time anyway!
Merry Christmas
Mike 🇨🇦 🍁
@@michaellippmann4474you are right on EV brake pad life span. Despite heavier car, the the regen helps alot. But frequent short distant commue in cold climate may diminish this advantage to a degree due to energy recover is not working at full effective when battery is cold. But it should be still able to last over 100k under sensible driving compare to 70k ish on ICE car. Merry Chrismas
My mark I mini had drum brakes. It also lacked brake assist so was fundamentally useless. On a more positive note -it was the only bit of the car which didn't suffer in wet weather, unlike the ignition
@@林振华-t4v Merry Christmas to you as well!
Italian Tune-up in dino juice cars is hard acceleration to dislodge carbon build-up in the engine, followed by hard breaking to de-glaze the brake pads and clean the rotors. Sounds like EV's can do with a little bit of this as well occasionally. Rear Drums are still the best type of brakes for normal commuter vehicles
😂Depends on the driving behavior. I need to use the brake on my model 3 at least once a day.
de-glaze? ok you got that totally backwards, there is no de-glazing unless you mill the brake discs. hard braking can lead to overheating which causes glazing. common on trucks where drivers use incorrect braking techniques.
Drum brakes have a better protection against corrosion. They last longer than disc brakes. The disadvantage they have is that they can't cool as fast as disc brakes. You can't brake hard many times with drum brakes in a short period of time. They get hot and lose their braking capability. In electric car you can regenerate and you don't need brakes so often thus drum brakes are very good of a solution. I would prefer drum brakes even for front tires in an electric car. It is all about reliability.
The only car I ever had drum brakes on had nothing but trouble with the rear brakes. They did basically nothing, while the front disks worked fine. This was a 12-16 year old car at the time. They may be protected against corrosion, but I'm not convinced they last longer or work better in any way.
@@JamesKirk1988 My first brake repair that I did with my own hands was 1999 Toyota Avensis with some 320 000 km. I did that repair 3 years ago.I suspect that I was the first to make anything for those brakes. I asked from a local service shop if it is possible that no maintenance would have been needed earlier and they agreed. I replaced the brake shoes, springs and some small things, but it would have been better to replace everything but drums and cylinders. Today those brakes are working daily without issues.
@@samijokinen9246Glad to hear about you're good luck with those. The Drum brakes on the back of my 1990 Pathfinder were straight up worthless when we got it around 100k miles. We tried to fix them multiple times, but they were still worthless when we sold it at 160k miles. The front disks were doing 98% of the stopping work.
@@samijokinen9246 the drums on the rear of my auto 90k mile fiesta were only worn about 40% and I drive around a city with huge hills! They last forever. Wouldn't want them for actual driving through, they can overheat.
I had to have my i-pace rear disks replace after 4k miles, it was a demonstrator during Covid so did the same journey every day. I keep them clean by going into neutral down a hill near my home and using the brakes to slow down 👍
Same. There's a long, fast hill I drive weekly so I put the car in neutral at the top and brake gently on the way down coming to a stop at the junction. It keeps the friction brakes rust free.
Yes, it is very much the driving style... We were driving our i-pace on german motorways (sometimes with heavy foot), we head no rust issues in nearly 4 years
@Quarks and @Martyn please don't coast in neutral to clean your brakes, you may find yourself in an emergency situation without full control of your vehicle which would be bad.
I would also like to draw your attention to highway code rule 122
www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/general-rules-techniques-and-advice-for-all-drivers-and-riders-103-to-158
Not being an EV driver myself this may be bad advise but you can generally clean up/re bed your discs with a couple of moderate decelerations from about 60 - 70mph down to about 30. You may need to stray into the "hard braking" territory if you're an EV driver as I dont know when the cutover is from regen to regen+ brakes. In an ICE car you can just drag the brakes for a couple of meters and they will do the good.
Valdemar is a great guy! BMW i3 I recently had to replace all 4 discs and pads due to rust to pass EU. Not worn out. 75000 km. It costed me 14000 NOK. I try to break hard from time to time
You could just brake 100-0 several times on an empty road, it would remove the rust for free
Drum brakes are as good as disc brakes in their ability to turn motion into heat. Their biggest problem was to disperse the heat, because heating expands the drum, and the brake shoes run out of travel trying to chase the receding drum's surface. Another difficulty is the brake shoe itself, which can also overheat and 'glaze' the braking surface. This is a chemical transition that decreases the friction (turns it into a form of glass), which also diminishes the effectiveness. Both situations can be designed out, but with simple disc brakes, isn't worth the effort. They are, however' very inexpensive to manufacture, as well as very reliable. Since very little braking is done by rear brakes (because the centre of gravity moves forward under braking), they are never overloaded. The rear brakes also are the most convenient to use as parking/emergency brakes. The design used on the ID3 gives equal braking both forward and backwards, as well as a self-adjustment mechanism. The central groove is another feature with two benefits. The first is to provide shorter routes from brake dust created by wear, to get out from between the shoes and the drums in normal use (infrequent heavy braking by the rear brakes). The second reduces the friction surface and thus enables a harder braking compound to be employed, while not reducing the effectiveness of the design in the process. This gives a longer service life to the rear brakes, which might match the life of the front discs as far as servicing goes. I understand that VW has been experimenting/employing a slip-seal around the edge of the drum and back-plate to exclude the opportunity for water and debris to enter the mechanism, but, self evidently, this seems unnecessary if you consider this car's experience.
There is no problem with drum brakes... Until the cover plate starts to rust, an parts of it falls of.. Especially the edges, but that takes decades.
Then there is the automatic adjustment, and everything else starts to set, cause the brakedust accumulate inside.
I know all of the pros for using drums on an EV or hybrid car but that groove in the brake shoes???? You won’t be able to give the drums a few wakes to free it up after a certain point and will be forced to de-adjust the shoes to just get the drums off!
the best for rust (and cost..) would be to have just one one drum brake enclosed at the center of the car👌
And good luck pedestrians at crosswalks!!🤣
God. I own an ID.4. What a POS. It has enormous cargo space (I fit 88 six foot fence pickets plus 8 bags of mulch in the back), it costs me like 2¢ a mile, the brakes are brand new after 30,000 miles, it has massaging seats, it's kinda fun to drive, and it hasn't had any issues. I hate it. Worst EV. It meets all of needs except the internet hates it.
Drum brakes are superior to disk brakes in every way except in dissipating heat and looking cool.
Its purely a manufacturing cost saving activity, nothing to do with the end user's savings in maintenance.
Waldemar RUclips Star
Opel Corsa D has 10 y old drum brakes .... no Problems ;-) 100.000km
Nice video. There is nothing wrong with rear drum brakes in an average vehicle. Four wheel disk is just a salesman's talking point.
How about difference in braking force between left and right rear drumbrakes? Mine was almost out of spec being at the TÜV inspection after 3 years (45000km)....
Rust does not care the make of car! if it can, it will rust!
Interesting to hear how many countries use salt on the road. I thought it was just UK
Those are quite sizeable rear drum brakes.
Hello from Germany, I am questioning myself why you have brakes at all in Norway? Being there 2020 with our Pickup Camper we only met obstacles on the roads, driving so slow and with all the bumps and speed limits everywhere, no need to brake, most times I used the indicator to pass you 😂
If you like driving stay away from Norway. Crazy speed limits everywhere. You Can end up in jail if you exceed the limits.
Same could be said for Germany, road works 365 days a year. For a country know for being efficient you guys do take a lot of time on roadworks...
About those rear drum brakes on the ID3 it is best to have the single piston, so the shoe can either hold the car from running forward or hold on a hill from running back. When it is two leading shoes they are powerful in going forward but much less back. I wish manufacturers would use some other disc material. Maybe a version of Carbon, so they don't rust. Best Dave
that neutral thing usually can be overridden by engaging the seatbelt in many cars.
A proper garage simply uses the programmer to put the car into brake maintenance mode.
The old VW Beetle had drum brakes all round. The drums have some self boosting capacity, but they cannot dissipate heat as quickly as disc brakes. On bicycles and light mopeds they turn the drum brake mechanism around so they have anti-boost preventing wheel lock up and falling. I am a big fan of drum brakes for lighter and "commuter" cars. I have a Mitsubishi 2015 Space Star (Mirage) and it has drum brakes in the rear. They are almost maintenance free and trouble free whilst the front discs have been replaced already.
That is because your brake bias is set at 70f and 30 B. Lol of course it is lasting lot longer. The rear drum brake is used more for park. My 05 civic has drum in the back, it is always the front lock up when I blow the brake padle
On EVs there's not much need for high heat dissipation, since the mechanical brake is just for emergency stops. Everything else is mostly done by regen braking.
This is what a lot of people in the other comments don't understand
I find drum brakes to be pretty good. They need to be set up correctly to work properly, so more finicky than disc brakes. The best advantage though is that drum brakes has zero drag. That they overheat easier is not really a problem for most people unless you drive on a race track or drive down a mountain and use the brakes instead of engine braking…
Harder to engine brake on an automatic or EV, but I've found cruise control to work well when doing big mountains to set that steady rate for the straight parts. This also stops my car having the "tourist lights" on as my Munich-based friends to use to describe brake lights on vehicles from north Germany doing alpine roads with the brakes on all the way....
Break size is determined by car mass for homologation, so heavy EV cars will have unusually big brakes. To prevent EV disk brakes from rusting, make harder breaking from time to time especially in wet conditions, or the best the next day after car wash or rain. It will clean the rust and prolong disk lifetime. Drum brakes are better sealed, not exposed to water so much, so this is one of the reason they are used for EVs.
Small cars with rear discs often rust their rear discs more than larger cars as they aren't heavy enough to get adequate load to clean surface rust thoroughly during braking, especially if the car isn't in regular use. Bias valves and ABS will be preventing brake lock up on a light car under hard braking. I use the cable operated handbrake a bit during driving to clean my rear discs of surface rust if I leave either of my cars unused for a while, one of which is fairly small and light the other not as small and light but it's use is less. This seems to do the trick for me. Neither are EV's but the principle is there for rear disc equipped cars regardless.
Bjorn…swap $NIO with 150 kw battery and drive 1000km at one shot without peeing…sheeeettt. Looking for your 1k challenge when that battery is available. Just swap the shit out of vehicles and dun with it
At 90 km/h though. It will take over 11 hours.
I think with NIO ET 5 and outside temp at 20 C, May be you can barely touch 1000 km. This is the very reason y we look forward for ur videos so that we get a real world grasp but overall it will break all records for fastest 1000km….🎉
Something I really don't like with many european cars is that they often have wheels mounted with bolts instead of nuts you screw on threads that makes shifting wheels so much easier, especially with thick aluminum wheels.
Try use screw driver as a guide pin. It is still painful. But not as much like you dont use nothing
I'd expect the threats to get damaged quickly when someone who struggles with the weight of a wheel pushes it along the threaded rods.
They're a perfect choice on EVs for the rear axle where you anyway (in any vehicle type) need only a lot less braking power than on the front axle. Replacement is also cheaper, and often you can get away with just replacing the shoes/springs and not the drum. The issue with drum brakes is bad heat dissipation (again, not too much of a problem on the rear axle) which can in extreme cases lead to a lockup of the brake (also contamination of the shoes or a defective cyclinder might trigger that).
It was one of my many reasons for getting rid of the Kia Niro EV. I braked hard 3-4 times on my way home from work, drove a bit past my house and reversed at max speed slamming the brakes while using the "clean brake discs" mode, and even then my rear discs were rusty. Crap quality, but why not just put a drum brake in there. Even with the Picanto/I10, they had rear discs. Completely unnecessary.
I thought I was alone to prefer drum brakes for their rustproof qualities. I have to replace discs every 3 years on both my Saturns that's why I hate disc brakes. Semi trucks use drum brakes on all wheels in North America. Big truck companies have resisted the change to disc brakes because of their higher maintenance cost. They understand this consumer trap.
Heavy trucks in Europe and now most Semi Trailers have moved to Disc Brakes, Unusual to see anything still running drums these days.
@@-DC- Europe is a nightmare of over-regulation. That's what happen when women take control of politics.
Excellent video and a very good farewell
Here's a video with good explanation why drum brakes in EVs are actually a good thing - ruclips.net/video/lsp8sdGGvWg/видео.html
Only problem with drum brakes on old cars that had them would be failed hydraulic seals. These would allow hydraulic fluid to leak on to the brake linings. Not a pleasant job on old cars with asbestos dust that you had to remove from the drum ... or black sludge if it was mixed with hydraulic fluid! In principle it seems a reasonable choice of braking system for the rear on an EV.
Also the self-adjusters either rust solid, or get jammed up with brake dust and stop working, so as the pads wear they aren't compensated.
Most braking power is done by the front so rear not so critical.
Especially with an EV that regens a lot, so the physical brakes are used much less than with (non-hybrid) ICE cars.
That's why rear disc brakes rust on EVs.
And in a rwd ev like the id3 the regen is going to be at the rear.
I wonder then if fwd EVs have more regen potential than rwd EVs.
@@Tom-bp6noYes FWD and also AWD have better regen potential than RWD.
I have a Cupra Born and I put the gear in N sometimes to remove the rust from the disc brakes. Then there is no regen and only normal brakes are used.
I guess this works on all cars on the MEB platform, I don't know if it works on other brands though.
The front tires kick up all sorts of spray and crap. That is why drums in the back are better for regular passenger cars. For maniac driving you might want discs.
VW it's 2023, 1973 called and said they want their Drum Brakes back. Single Plane Discs and Single Action Calipers are ubiquitous, so i contend there's no possible benefit be it Cost, Performance, or Weight at this late date in History to using Drums. they even have this bloody setup on Audi's (ref, the ID4 clone).
I have just replaced the discs and pads on my 2013 nissan leaf i have had the car for about 8 years and never looked at the front brakes
drum brakes are cheaper to produce and lighter in total (that might surprise you), which is veeeery important in weighty EVs. This weight is why ID.3 with bigger battery has only 4 seats. Drumbrakes are less frequently to maintain but when you have to maintain them, this guy with hammer is going to charge you significantly more (changing a break pad is so easy ...). The trouble is ID.3 is not cheaper than TM3, so the savings do not go to customer's pocket.
Curb weight of the ID3 is 1772 to 1935 kg according Wiki, so a few hundred kilogram more than an old VW T3 or T4 van. Brakes look comparable, so nothing new under the sun.
I have a question
2 years ago I took My ID3 to workshop for first service
They said no need to replace break pads /shoes
Now it almost 3 years with 40,000 km range
Do I need to be worry about my break pads wearing?
Because my first EU control is around 7-8 months next
Because some days in the mornings the breaks was locked and I car moved very hardly
I have it on my Enyaq too and their noise totaly destroy my driving experience. I Hate it !
Good video
Very informative and serious
Drum brakes read 💪💪💪
👍🏼👍🏼 I wish ly GTE would also have drum breaks. I had to get new disks for front and rear because they were so rusty since I used to drive 90% in B gear, now once a week I put the car into neutral and do a hard breaking from 80-100 to 0 since then it uses the disks, no regen to ”clean” the disks
It can be much more economical to have no regen and just roll, and then brake. Regeneration has its losses as well. Harder regen have more heat loss.
Obviously if driving down a long hill you'd use regen to keep from speeding, much like low gear to brake via engine on old ICE cars.
You can drive a long way for the price of new brake disks. So even if it sounds less economical to not regen it might not be in the long run.
@@Gazer75I thought the current set of EVs were adopting a profile of explicitly working the disk brakes from time to time; will have to check. Otherwise, yes, some manual intervention is required. A bit like on every cycle ride on a bike with hydraulic disk brakes I need to pump the brake levers whenever I set off to force any air bubbles up from the piston into the reservoir in the brakes. Just another habit to adopt
I had the same on my GTE, factory brakes lasted 3 years. However I got some good quality low corrosion replacements and they lasted 5 years with no obvious sign of wear.
If you use D or B doesn't really make a difference in the GTE. Yes, it doesn't regen when you take your foot of the accelerator, but once you step on the brake it will do max regen possible before engaging the brakes.
It actually has a brake cleaning mode. After accelerating and braking hard twice, it will no longer engage regen for a little while. This allows you to clean the discs much easier, but the rear discs are still an issue.
I bought my GTE with 3 years/20,000km, and it needed new rear brakes immediately. Tried cleaning them, but the corrosion was too severe, they never cleaned up.
Yep they may not look as good, but a better engineering answer for EV cars which use their brakes so little. They are in truth probably fine for normal every day cars too, but have been marketed away for the 'premium' disk units.
Figure out how to "emergency brake" w EMF or how to make EV breaks last and EVs will be even more sustainable! Also, that "lower maintenance cost" you're supposed to get is ruined by disc brakes 😡
The Drum brake in my (non-electrical) Audi A2 worked 13 years and 150000 km without any problem.
Drums are a very old system and there's a reason why most moden cars stopped using them they are rubbish. I have been a mechanic for 30 years and just bought a id3 and I can confirm the stopping power is not good at all. When you drive the car in sports mode it activates the breaking mode ad it need the assistance to stop the car it's a huge disappointment
Please don't compare this fancy, fashion eCrap to real cars...
(But you're not far off: even among classic combustion engines, our cheap, japanese engineered, chineese build car has way less issues, wear and tear than the newer cars manufactured in germany.)
? Why don't they use anti rust brake materials like GM has on certain EV's.
Even in Australia, we can get Dba brake rotors that don't rust like those.
Everything I design is either Aluminium 7000 series or Stainless Steel. Cars are just so cheap with cheap materials, even surface rust is horrid.
Actually, Renault Zoe has now brake disks on the rear, on the new model. The Zoe in the video is the old model!
1:40 how did YOU not know that, bjørn? 😅
What i would have done is give the drums a clean with brake cleaner , Also on contact surfaces that have corrosion sand them down with a wire brush and apply a generous amount of copper slip grease .
Then that would be sorted 😀
Mounting drum brakes on cars must end ! I would never buy a car with drum brakes.I avoid them always .Mounting drum brakes on cars is just to try to keep the price of the car down nothing else .
The surface rust on the outside of drums is just cosmetic - my VW UP came painted grey and a coat of wax prolonged the life. Easy to respray or coat with rust protector too because no risk of contaminating the enclosed brake surface or friction material
Its nearly the same in my Seat Mii Elektro, works great in you pull the Hand break sometimes.
all Land Rover cars are rated to tow 3500Kg, but older Defender’s only has drum breaks all around!
I think the best way to take care.of brakes is from time to time do a friction only braking: coast, switch to neutral and do normal braking without regen (it won't work on neutral)
Or, you have a car that uses the rain sensor to predict moisture on the brake and applies them with minimal contact to dry and clean them. The customer should not be required to do strange driving in public.
Did you mean to write neutral twice?
@@AlbertLamarque even ignore the sensor and from time to time reduce regen and do friction braking instead. Can be done with car's software. Probably will be a standard in future.
@@ArturFlies however the solution looks like, I agree. My "old" 2017 BMW i3 had a rust problem, my 2021 i3s does not. Something must have changed.
Modern EV's does this automatically
That neutral bullshit is appaling. Guess they don't teach people how to drive so they need to put these systems in to compensate
The procedure from min 3:00 is not necessary in my ID.3. i sit in the car, press the brake and put the gear in N. The car asks me if i want to deactivate the roll-away protection. If i confirm i can get out of the car, close the door and maneuver the car per hand.
My fist car, a VW Golf MK2, had drum brakes in the back as well. :)
Is the cost of labour in Norway so high that turning the used discs would be more expensive than replacing them?
It is a big regress, the same regress like many years before when Vw introducing big diesel engine on small cars like Golf, huge mistake! I am sorry but they are selling shit!
Discs are just more repair friendly for me... I don't like to work on drum brakes as much... 😝
Yes, much easier to just remove the caliper with two bolts and do some wirebrush cleaning and lubricate the sliding pins when you change from winter to summer tires.
You don't need to work on these drums much, if at all. EVs are not the same as ICE regarding brake usage & wear, as you probably know.
@@Roll_the_Bones A winter with plenty of road salt will kill any brakes that aren't maintained, discs or drums...
@@oskich Judging by the evidence here, the drums have been unaffected by salt, or anything else?
@@Roll_the_Bones Let's see after 5 years ;-)
i don't get why this would be the cheaper option, it looks more complex than disk brakes
In Europe it's always the rear disc breaks that is rusty... Not the front.
Nothing wrong with drum brakes. They are the better choice for some applications like we see here.
Really interesting video. Thank you :)
Soon enough they'll be using drum brake on all 4 wheels, just like the good old 50s.
It would be interesting to see how drums on the front and rear with regen compared in normal driving to disc/drum and also emergency stop
Das auto ID3 , made with LADA level seats😅
why the hell is drum brakes put in id3 these days! gone backwards
most rear discs on fwd cars just rust away....barelly get worn down to its limits. evs or ice doesnt matter.
It'll also stay in neutral with the door open if you have the seatbelt fastened
Thanks. L O L, best signoff ever!
chances are there's a drum brake union that they have to employ at gunpoint so here's the end result
cant spell his name, but he did an awesome job on the outro :)
Valdemar
3:09 In the Skoda Enyaq, you can stop, put the car back in N, then a message appears at the top of the screen asking you if want to keep the car in N. If you press that, you can work on the car as long as you keep the "ignition" on. Should be the same with the ID3 since the cars are quite similar 🤔
ruclips.net/video/YrwvuAamO-U/видео.htmlsi=xUQ0sVATassqBx82 Here is an example of someone doing it in an ID3 ;)
thanks for a great overview video with an exceptional sign-off!
Big drum brakes often used on lorry/trucks.
Not only low maintenance - drum brakes are more efficient
In my opinion, VW hasn't made a bad decision here - at least for the smaller and weaker models, completely sufficient, since the recuperation takes place on the rear axle anyway and can also be better regulated.
However, I see practical problems with the large, heavy models:
The trailer load is therefore much lower. The ID series only has around 1200 kg for braked trailers. It's particularly bad with the ID Buzz, which has an empty weight of over 2400 kg but is only allowed to tow 1000 kg. Completely unusual if you compare it to a T6 and its 2500 kg.
I think the trailer load is limited by the motor cooling mostly, not brakes. Because those VW EVs are heavy they do not have sufficient cooling to add a lot of additional towed mass.
@@UhOhUmm EVs overall have bad towing capacity, my parents Subaru Solterra only has 750kg capacity meanwhile my E-tron does 1800kg which is decent enough but still quite a bit lower than what a Q7 3.0 TDI can tow(3500) for example. Even the Tesla X is quite limited at only 2250kg comparatively.
Great video and more double acts please!
I know this is a different subject but I had to replace all my pads and discs on my three year old Arteon after only 16k miles, and I'm an older, steady driver. Discs were in an appealing state.
"appalling" ... definitely not "appealing"!
Brakes need to be used fairly hard frequently to not just rot away, if all you’re really doing is putting about town mostly engine/rolling resistance braking then the brakes will rot for the same reason EVs do.
@@MrAdopadoDon't be surprised if Google is spelling for you! Sometimes it's "interesting" to know which letters are close to each other on the keyboard. I press 5 instead of t "many" times on my pad...
@@leiflillandt1488 Yep, don't I know it! In this instance it was a fantastic typo example because it described the exact opposite of what was intended!