I caught myself asking a slightly sneaky question yesterday to my partner. “Are you warm, do you want me to turn on the AC?” They said no and I felt weirdly disappointed. Then I realized that *I* was the one who was feeling warm and wanted the AC on. I didn’t even realize it in the moment, my default was to defer to my partner.
My bf noticed I adjust the vizor in the car based on him adjusting his and started rapidly messing with it one day until it became obvious I was copying him. I hadn't even realized I was doing it until then. I think it comes from the same place.
@@ANPC-pi9vu it is a bit like mirroring people when you’re talking to them (which I do all the time). They cross their legs, I do too. They uncross them I do too. They have a sip of coffee, I have a sip of coffee. Been trying to stop myself doing it so much.
It *is* a sneaky question If you're warm, just say "I'm warm; I'm going to turn on the AC." If the other person doesn't want AC on, it's up to them to say something at that point.
“Allow others to experience you, not what you provide for them” is hitting me hard because my first impulse is, what I provide for others IS who/what I am. If I’m not providing for them, then what is there to experience? Not sure how to process that one, but definitely need to process it. I think I don’t have a sense of self or identity, I only see myself as what I can contribute. And at this stage in my life of chronic illness, I receive far more than I am able to give, and it’s been a huge point of self loathing that I have nothing to give or can’t reciprocate.
This is my husband 100%. I wish you well with your health and identity development. Who would you be if you were alone for a week? What would you be interested in reading about our doing?
I feel you SO MUCH on this! Receiving and giving occupy my mind. Just being, gets lost in the worry bc I am also chronically ill with fluctuating abilities. Theres always the question if I am being reciprocal enough or taking too much and if I am, I'll cut into my personal money, time, and energy to protect myself from that fear or shut down and avoid everyone. Not sure how to reconcile it either. I am also autistic and laughed a bit at not needing to have a response for anything -if I don't script or rehearse I get very lost in social interactions. So there has to be a balance.
I'm so sorry to hear you're dealing with the chronic illness. For many of us with cptsd our bodies Force us to face the things we aren't looking at. Perhaps this is an opportunity for you to finally rest and receive. Maybe some mantras when someone is caring for you would be supportive.
What made it easy for me to move away from this behavior was to realize that they would push healthy people away while keeping toxic people around. Healthy people sense the manipulation in your eggshell-walking around them and feel automatically uncomfortable around someone who is terrified of taking up space and being authentic. It subtly communicates the message to them that you see them as a treat and that's not exactly a compliment. Healthy people WANT others to have boundaries because people with boundaries and preferences are inherently easier to be around and allow others to be themselves too.
^^^^ something that keeps me trapped is being afraid to accept that if someone keeps interpreting my boundaries as a problem, or wants me to people please, they are not good for me to be around. Not wanting to "lose" toxic people by finding out how they react to a boundary so you avoid ever being direct to "keep" them or ignore when they react badly bc it must have been an exception... its a form of delusion and I want to change so badly im just scared when people leave my life ill spiral into thinking its all my fault and I am broken.
Such a difficult concept for me to grasp. How will they know me then? I mean one can’t just be. What value is that? I know this thinking is exactly what’s being confronted here. But what if that’s who I am.
Patrick is really great and helpful- very precise and easy to understand. I'm curious if you watch Tim Fletcher at all? He has some really great information and work for PTSD. Sometimes it's so validating and also overwhelming to hear all of these relatable topics. I know I struggle.
Yes Patrick. These have been my patterns. I continue to appreciate the way you lay things out & connect the dots. You validate & show compassion for the inner child's experiences, bring clarity & insight on the behavioral patterns & underlying motives as adults, & then give an action plan toward healthy changes. You are such a valuable resource for healing and growth. Thank you!
i'm currently living with a woman who got out of an abusive home recently and the roleplay at the beginning was EXACTLY how she talks. i thanked her for cleaning the sink recently and she responded by apologizing that she hadn't cleaned the rest of the bathroom. hope she becomes more comfortable as things go on because she deserves to be.
@@isobeltotten4402 just stereotyped assumption that men don't do much of a household chores (again I assumed that you are a man while nothing in your post says so)
I woke up one day in the past few weeks to my inner child being gone. That energy body within me that formed in my childhood, that used to run my life is integrated into the rest of me. I'm no longer reactive to every day situations, I don't get triggered and I can communicate to others much more effectively. My inner child has dissolved through doing a lot of this work consistently. I caught myself the other day instinctively enacting my boundaries with someone who was breadcrumbing me and trying to get me to self-abandon to meet their needs. Thats the same behaviour I would have accepted a year ago and responded to by codependently trying to please. I was so surprised with myself. I didn't recognize this new version of me. It made me so proud. My body is markedly more relaxed. I don't get adrenalized and the constant tightness in my belly and my stomach problems have all but disappeared. I no longer have crippling social anxiety on a daily basis. I can talk to strangers without feeling like crawling into myself. I feel so at ease. I feel so in control of my inner world and so at peace. This is why life felt so miserable and difficult before, because my inner world was so chaotic and reactive. I never imagined I could live in this state. This work is so rewarding❤
Kude, Can I ask what you've been doing, reading, exercises etc to get to that state? That sounds amazing. It gives me so much hope that maybe I can get there too.
Bro FUCK YES! that's what the fuck is up. I'm so proud & grateful for your experience! It's inspiring as hell to me & I thank you for your confidence to shareeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeerrr
Even that question “do you navigate people?” causes me so much discomfort and shame. Because the very fact that it’s a question means NOT doing it is an option which blows my mind while simultaneously causing me to realize it probably shouldn’t blow my mind.
Same. In the last few years I've been learning a LOT about my people pleasing, codependency, and how to have healthy boundaries and how to effectively communicate and hold them, how to stand up for myself, and a host of other things wrong with me. But I sure am glad I'm learning them! It's so much better to have self awareness and be aware of the problems, AND know what to do instead and why and have an arsenal of tools to use.
@@toni2309 I don't have a concise answer for that. I've found good information on these channels: this one, Stephanie Lynn, Mended Light, Therapy in a Nutshell and Put the Shovel Down - great vids on healthy boundaries and how to enforce them. Also, good communication skills on these channels but also Chris Voss and Bob Bordone.
@@tinaperez7393 I'm not sure they are going to answer my question tbh, I very much doubt it actually. I've never really seen any really good info on boundaries and communication that actually works for neurodivergent people.
@@toni2309 yeah, well, I dunno. All I know about myself are the very good videos on boundaries on Our Down the Shovel, then Therapy in a nutshell, then Mended Light and Stephanie Lynn. Those were very helpful / useful and practical for me. I don't know your situation or limitations all I can say is what worked for me.
My mother was raised to be kind, unselfish, and super Christian, and asking for something for yourself was bad. So when I shall visit her, she starts with: «When do you come?» Me: «When is best for you?» She: «It’s the same for me. You decide.» Me: «Ok, it’s best for me at 10. I can't be late.» She: «10-10:30?» Me: «Ok.» Then she calls a few hours later: «When will you come again? Was it 11?» Me: «10-10:30.» She: «Oh yes, 10.30-11.» The next days she calls several times to ‘confirm’ when I was coming, and you guess it, slowly she manipulates me to come at 12 o’clock which was her preferred time from the beginning. Both cute and sad. She is a very kind lady, but it’s sad to think about her whole life she was like this, never could speak out her own needs, and now she's ninety.
Your mother at age 90 could possibly be suffering from dementia. My mom had this same behavior and requests. Keep in mind that I had been estranged from my mother for 3 1/2 years. When we reconnected, I initially thought that she was being manipulative. Same old behavior - No, I believe that I could see the mental decline, because I had not seen her in a long time.
I have had the same problem with my parents all my life. Now they are getting elderly it makes the situation even worse. I am trying to find the words to tell my dad that he is so incredibly selfish for refusing to say no or refusing to have preferences, expecting me and my siblings to mind read what he wants. It's putting us in a terrible position, and right now I just have to keep away as much as I can.
@@sheilamorris2408 of course, that is something to have in mind. But with my mother this is a long life pattern. And she doesn't do this if I suggest the time she actually wants from the beginning. So it's not failing memory. It's the only way she knows to get her way without saying it in a direct way.
That moment when he said "I'm proud of you" by validating my childhood survival traits slammed me so fast and so hard, I started crying out of nowhere and had to stop the video for nearly 30 minutes. How POWERFUL that childhood validation is. My nerves are already shot. I will come back to this later...
SOUNDS LIKE NOT A PARENT OMG ITS A HUGE 24 7 365 DEMANDING EXHAUSTING THANKLESS JOB WITH NO TRAINING FEELS LIKE GIGANTIC CRITICAL UNKIND JUDGMENTAL OF PARENTS PARENTS NEEEED HELP INSTEAD OF ALWAYS BLAMING JUDGING PLEASE HELP PARENTS MORE HELP FOR ON HOW TO WITH KINDNESS TEACH HOW TO BE A BETTER PARENT WOULD HUGE HELP.
Bro, the bar is so low. Meet 33% of the emotional need, and treat the child like a fellow human and you're good. I make mistakes but my kids can say "mom that was rude!" And not fear getting hit across the face with a chair. I am winning big here.
6:35 "KILL'EM WITH KINDNESS" - being totally accommodating to others. May be caused by having a moody parent or a selfless codependent parent. To counteract it, practice doing "good enough" behaviors. 10:48 "HEAD'EM OFF AT THE PASS" - predicting how others will react and getting out ahead of them; overexplaining. May be caused by having to fill in parental holes in the family; having perfectionistic parents; having to figure things out without any parental guidance. Experiment with not having a response for everything. Answer questions without a backstory or an apology. Stop forecasting other people's needs or trying to impress them with your ability to do that. Allow others to experience you, not what you provide for them. 15:44 "CHECK IT TIMES 5 (NOT TRUSTING)" - repeatedly questioning others, neurotically testing others to see if they are on the same page. Comes off as badgering others. May be caused by neglectful parenting, having experienced major catastrophes in childhood. Experiment with confirming plans with others only once. 20:22 "SNEAKY QUESTIONS" - asking indirect questions instead of expressing thoughts and requests directly. May be caused by parental overreactions to children's questions and requests. Try journaling about how being direct growing up wasn't safe and ways parents themselves were indirect.
@@bricksfeathers5423 Thanks for this summary. To your question, I believe these strategies and behaviors are not your personality. You do these things, but they aren't who you are. I'm guessing that by learning to not do these things except for occasionally when it is truly helpful, your true self will be able to shine through.
@@bricksfeathers5423 You have one, and its a wonderful, bright personality that walks through life with less fear and anxiety. Keep doing the work! It gets better.
“Head em off at the pass” is basically my entire personality in a nutshell. I will perfectly position myself, make sure all the dominos are lined up with 10 contingencies, before I express myself. I always feel like I’m not “allowed” to be upset with someone else if I myself am not absolutely perfect. I make sure I have a prepared answer for everything and anticipate how I believe the other person will react to best keep the peace while making sure eyes aren’t on me. If I air a grievance I make sure to ask over and over if it isn’t actually MY fault they messed up (a huge problem at work). I would never “bother” my husband with anything because I didn’t want him to feel “obligated” to me, so I would always make excuses for him. I would try to make things easier for others while over complicating things, then have an absolute meltdown if anything messed up or someone got annoyed. Its the hardest codependent habit to break and I don’t know if I’m ready to yet, tbh. It feels safe.
Me at 48. It makes me sad and angry and I just want “them” to get it…. I feel like I’m being gaslit and the only thing is to not care about them getting it… but I don’t want to do that. There is SO much anxiety around figuring out the balance beteeen what I need and pleasing others… To the point where I’m losing my sanity and soul. I need help
Thanks for providing these examples, the "not 'allowed' to be upset" thing hits on something for me... I think part of it was seeing my parents have unproductive fights and poor anger management. On top of being socialized as Girl, this led to me smooshing down my anger constantly. Another part is not knowing how to feel my feelings and have the knowledge of boundaries/etc to notice that someone apologizing is different from them changing their behavior. I thought loving someone meant accepting them as they were, and I didn't realize that DIDN'T mean "also ignore or sacrifice your own wants and needs when they consistently fail to follow through or demonstrate any kind of accountability for their actions."
I did this to my therapist once when she asked when to schedule our next meeting. I gave her the whole song and dance, like “does this work for you? If not I understand, it was my fault we missed a week, blah blah”. She said “Gennifer, I’m not an ogre 😏Next time, just tell me what works and it will be way faster for us both”. Totally put it into perspective for me! I am safe now, I don’t have to walk on eggshells with everyone in my life like I did as a child.
Most of my fights with my husband have been because of this behavior. He hates it. But I was so immersed in it as a child that when someone tells me to stop, it feels like telling me that it would be nice if I stopped breathing oxygen. My parents were both crazy servants. Dad worked 80-100 hours a week at a non-profit and would go help someone who asked anytime day or night. It wasn’t weird for him to leave at 3am to go sit with someone. Don’t get me wrong, it’s kind of nice to have such an example of compassion-but it was just so so much. My Mom was the perfect housewife who made sure every possible guest need was not only prepared for, but ALWAYS prepared in case someone dropped by. A tissue box next to every seat, a trash can in every room, perpetually clean, and snacks kept for guests. Even the insides of cupboards in case someone checked inside (which unfortunately they sometimes did). They were also total perfectionists. Every conversation, school project, or performance was up for review. They meant well-but when I’d complain I was tired or I wanted to skip an opportunity to volunteer, I’d get called selfish or lazy. Whenever someone else made crazy inhuman sacrifices, it was held up for me as an example. I’d specifically feel almost ill when another person my age was held up as a paragon of some quality I’d just been told I lacked. Especially “mature.” I got called immature all the time. I don’t ever remember getting called mature myself. Even into adulthood and motherhood I’ve still been called immature. Then I go into a spiral of checking every square inch of my life for evidence of immaturity, ending in confusion for me. And how could I be upset? They were feeding the homeless and giving everything they had to others. I had nothing to point to to understand where they might be wrong. I feel guilty over any rest, even just going to bed early, always. I love my parents. They really are so generous. They just wanted to teach me compassion and generosity. There was just no room to breathe. I’ve improved somewhat. I’m really careful with my checking. The first two are still full on pathological conditions. They had hard childhoods with no permission to rest. I get it. I’m just working to teach work AND rest AND compassion to my kids. Oh, and every time someone else is direct it feels like they might as well be jumping out of a plane in front of me. I get that roller coaster scare in my stomach every time.
I had a very similar upbringing. My parents would tell me that if I didn’t serve others with my time and talents, god would take what I had away from me. They truly believe that and still do. My dad would use up all his energy helping others that he would ignore the family and our needs, or get resentful if we needed him to help us with anything. I was forced to sing/play music since I was 6 years old and truly believed if I didn’t perform anytime I was asked, or if I sinned, that god would take away my voice or my hands. I would envision losing my limbs in freak accidents if I fought with my brother and every time I got sick I panicked, thinking I’d done something horribly wrong and my voice would be gone forever.
@@mooncarrotarts261 that is absolutely horrible! I hope you have healed that toxic and untrue programming by now. You were conditioned to be a slave. I’m so sorry you went through that.
What i love about this guy is that he knows what he's talking about from experience, not just based on books read. I've been in therapy a number of times and have only had one good therapist. I felt with other therapists that they think they have you all figured out because they've talked with you a couple times and would tell me why i do certain things and they couldn't have been farther from the truth. Thanks for your videos!!!
I stayed in & with group therapy due to meeting a few BAD counselors & hearing very bad stories about pathetic counselors. Alice Miller helped me understand why some counselors are SO B A D! 😂
I absolutely love how you're empowering people to recognize these as beautiful and potent social skills that have assumed a maladaptive role in their lives. Because once they really work on and move through difficulty from their trauma they are now primed as some of the best people on the planet at these skills and can use that to improve their and others' lives.
When I was in my 20s and living away from home because I had bolted asap, I used to constantly apologize to people for my lack of social graces and explain to them “I was raised by wolves.” But it only really hit me in my 40s that I was neglected AND traumatized. And suddenly so much of my life (bad choices, weird reactions, odd inability to sense toxic people while also having a weird “spidey sense” about other people and situations) made so much sense. And it all came flooding back. The constant manipulation, lies, gaslighting, walking on eggshells, tauntings, and being scapegoated on top of being neglected and left to basically fend for myself. Recently my Mom passed and while researching her life for her obit I discovered that she lied about EVERYTHING. Many unnecessary things. It’s like she’s taunting me from the beyond.
Wow that must be hard to take in. I've been friends with a woman for a year and she told me her husband lied an awful lot....but then I noticed she was lying so now I don't know what to believe either.
@@SophiesWorld2024 This is something I have to admit - lying is contagious. Truth was relative in my household growing up. Plus I’d constantly get accused of lying when I was telling the truth, so why would I bother telling the truth? We all assumed most of what eachother was saying was BS. So I didn’t feel any necessity to tell the truth, and constantly lied. About stupid little things as well as big things. All the time. But as an adult, when I got away from my family, I realized it was not only creepy and unnecessary, but it was causing too much anxiety to try to remember the lies and to keep them going. Then being caught made people distrust me, so it’s no way to live. So I made a concerted effort to stop that behavior. But every time I got back around my family I’d fall back into the same patterns of assuming they’re all constantly lying (they usually are,) and also just not bothering with the truth myself, since it only ever got me punished. In other words, I know it’s hard to understand, but it may be that your friend just has a weird relationship with the truth, since she’s been gaslit so often by her husband, truth becomes a strange concept. I also know, though, that it’s very difficult to be friends with someone you can’t trust.
Very similar to my lack of upbringing. Mom took us away in the night at 13, sperm donor died right after my 16th birthday. He was the narcissistic that put this shit in motion, but my mom and sisters can't seem to see that they still scapegoat me, they still see me as poor Shawn she's got mental problems. Yea, it's called cptsd, and my parents caused it. So now what? Stay strong, your doing fabulous!!
All of your subjects are hitting so close to home with me, the last couple months especially hard. Sometimes so much so that I find them difficult to watch. Sometimes I am not able for fear of spiralling and rumination. I keep trying. I appreciate that this information is here for me when I need it. 🙏🏻
@Kristin MacKenzie - so glad you mentioned the rumination! Me too! Patrick's videos hit so close to home, they leave me in a very pensive and reflecting mood, sometimes even a bit brooding. But I take this to mean that we are processing and reflecting on our own truths, that have been unknown and repressed/withheld for so long. We are finally integrating unrealized, unprocessed parts of ourselves. I think as we get to live from them, little by little, so will it become part of our reality.
@Kristin MacKenzie• This is me! I can beyond relate. For the past few months I now listen to Patrick’s videos while I’m cooking because inevitably I’m crying! That way my kids don’t think something’s ALWAYS wrong w/mom crying all the time. Now it’s onions or what not😉 I had to come up w/a solution because I stopped listening for fear of spiraling or getting so down & sad. For me making it to the end of his videos always helps so much🫶and reading comments like yours helps tremendously make me feel that I’m not alone♥️
I am also here with you on this one. Breathing exercises help me accept the information a bit better sometimes. But yeah, Patrick always hits it out of the park and into the bruised part of my soul (in a good way).
I’m 76 and just beginning to understand that I grew up with domestic violence. I have not understood why I am so uncomfortable in relationships- always doubting my self, my feelings, and my needs. I have been aware that image management is very important to me to feel safe from criticism or abandonment. I so appreciate these explanations as they give me a way of understanding myself better. My hope is that I will come to accept and appreciate myself and maybe be comfortable in my own skin.
Mental health dictates physical health. 76 is a long time to live your life this way. You've just made a huge jump, and I bet the next 100 years will be full of love and discovery.
I totally maneuver in these ways. Over explaining, and Guessing the outcome before an interaction. Being in as much control as possible makes me feel safe. You've explained Codependency far better than my therapist did when I brought up these issues with her. I appreciate the use of the word "Maneuvers" over Manipulations, since I'm not trying to do these things to hurt people; I'm just trying to be safe because I learned that I had to do this to protect myself with a neglectful, unpredictable parent in my childhood. Finally putting some things together. Thank you Patrick!
Yeah. I also never saw it as manipulation because I'm trying to appease others and shouldn't they be satisfied with that? It's maladaptive, yes, but not malicious.
I definitely over explain and say too much. I have these thoughts in the back of my mind in so many situations of people judging me, thinking I'm a horrible person, thinking I did something wrong. I think about people having bad intentions toward me all the time and it's not healthy.
Omg I have this too! I knew I was doing it, but when my boss picked up in it I knew I needed to learn a way to stop. This video is really helpful. Would love a part two though, where we can learn strategies for getting used to the uncertainty from being more direct and not constatly seeking approval and reassurance when interacting with people.
@@Arya-cf7vu I agree, we need strategies to not seek approval. I'm so glad for this channel, Patrick is very good at explaining things I can't put words to. I felt triggered listening to this one lol. But that's good! I think...
Wow, this was so helpful. My father was emotionally unavailable and my mother's go to emotion was anger and rage. I was never shown healthy ways to communicate or have disagreements, or love someone. I negotiate around people because inside I feel that anyone can harbor that emotional time bomb. When they detonate I think "see, you know how unpredictable and unstable people are and you weren't ready". I would have given anything to have heard so many of your talks when I was little. It was the 70s. No computers, and awareness of childhood trauma was almost non existent. Thank You Patrick. Ive come a long way but I still have so much to work on.
Mirror image home, here, but same result. Both parents came from physically abusive homes. Neither one had any idea about how to handle conflict or anger. Dad was the emotional time bomb, Mom was the preemptive accommodating codependent. Two kids became people pleasers🙋♀️, one has a rather spicy Type B personality disorder.
The video hasn't even aired and I'm like 🖐🖐🖐 I call it "manouvering" though, that term better expresses what I feel in the heft of evaluating people's natures and manipulating the social environment to feel safe for everyone.
@@timefortee it's the same thing with different stigmas. You manipulate a blanket to put it on a bed. You manipulate a lock with a key. The people who hurt us use manipulation-- to the purpose of getting their toxic way. Manipulation is a tool. It's what we do when we grey rock for example, and that's not an inherently bad or toxic thing. The difference is intent. Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk 😅😂😂 I'm worried that someone will have the word "manipulation" as a trigger and want to tear my head off but I am posting this anyway because I feel it's important and maybe it will even help those people in the long run. 😅
Growing up I didn’t know how to express my inner needs were not meant. I felt ashamed for having ‘extra’ needs from my parents. I was clothed, feed, and sheltered. We were lower class with little money. Love was something wealthy families could afford I thought. I was little adult taking care of my own needs and grew up to be a child because I was a child raising myself. I wasn’t a adult I had no skills to teach myself. I had only the ability to hide my parents downfall as not good enough parents to other adults.
I think a very large part of the grief in healing from parental narc abuse, codependency and people pleasing is the realization of the extraordinary amount of time, effort, energy, talent and sacrifice was so misdirected & wasted. I was conditioned to believe my life was to serve. And I did, exceptionally well. But instead of getting to take pride in a job well done, achievement or praise or accolades or rewards for all of that time, effort, creativity and sacrafice, to find that it was really misdirected, maladaptive and literally a waste of much of my life makes the enormous grief at the realization that much more painful.
Hello from France, i think i understand what you mean, grieving the waiste of energy, understanding for everyone elle but yourself time, not finding your purpose or simply what really gives you pressure in life. Took me years to find out , with RUclips channels like this i finally got it and went no contact last year with my parents. Rest of my family automatically cut me off, except for my brothers, cause my family looks kind of normal but was so hard and abusive for me growing up . I feel finally liberated and free to get to know the real me , best half is to come for me, because i decided to give all That " compassion, understanding, patience kindness to myself, my kids and people who threat me well. So yes, a hell of à lot of love to look forward to!!. Wish you all the best everyone recovering this abuse, support we find here is great !!
@@tonygoncalves2928 yes, basically giving all of the best of me away and how it counted for absolutely nothing. You make a very good point. I too, am now doing what you are doing, by turning all of the practice and experience of giving the best of myself to others, Im now turning it towards myself, my life and the loved ones who can love me back. And it's getting pretty amazing results 🙂 I know that going "no contact"was most likely the only real choice you had, and I'm sorry for your losses. So sad to have to pile more grief on top of the trauma you already suffered. I hope the life you are making for yourself is a wonderful one ✨️
this is some rare source that constantly confirm that I was right about things . people can be very vulnerable growing up in a chaotic, criticizing, humiliating and hypocritical environment
Being direct is so hard for me...and changing plans when I need to is so hard. I even feel bad for calling the dentist to reschedule when something comes up. Logically I know they couldn't care less but for some reason I'm convinced there is disappointment.
I practically have a nervous breakdown in my head- especially when I know I’m dealing with someone who’s always right and makes me wrong…. Definitely always raising up all objections, proving that they can’t even try to do that , etc. I WISH I could just say what I feel and want but then I would be like a blunt autistic person…. And get the reverse effect. My parents are still alive and the most common people that find what a I do wrong because they don’t understand ADD… I can’t get out of navigating nowadays… it’s like trying to make sure no one gaslights you… It’s like breathing- I don’t even think about what it is to not do it. Mad that someone or something even did this to me. And when I do this and STILL get shafted for it, I’ve finally suffered such rejection that I actually thought about hurting myself.
@@visionvixxen I'm so sorry Chloe, I understand. I mostly do this with my parents, mostly my mom, as well. My parents divorced when I was 2 and they both loved me a lot which is great but as a child I always felt like I was choosing. My mom felt rejection and hard feelings toward my dad so I think naturally projected those onto me when I wanted to visit him/felt excited to be over there. It got really bad as a teenager when I had my own car cause I got to choose and it always felt wrong...thankfully my dad caught on to this problem early on and tried never to make me feel guilty. It's still hard to visit my hometown although things have improved a lot since I have my own family. I think my parents divorce is the main reason I am a people pleaser 😔 The first step is recognizing the problems, so at least we're doing that through this channel. I'm thankful people like Patrick care to help people like us.
I'm exactly the same. Even worse my hair dresser shames me when I have to reschedule due to having a miagrane like I am the most inconsiderate person ever.
I tense up at just the phrase, "childhood trauma" - I spend so much time "understanding" my parents that I forget to acknowledge my childhood was nuts and traumatizing. I'm sticking with this video despite every part of me wanting to turn it off. Hence writing a comment to keep me listening.
This has happened to me Many times when I know I’m always getting scolded for not doing the dishes and I’ve done them several times a day and I have ADD and I’m late for some thing but I see dishes and want to make sure I don’t give my mom a reason to talk about how I never do the dishes over an again - so that one time I’ll stop and Rushingly do them And even as I’m doing that them I’m trying to figure out and I’m asking her should I stop doing them because I’m doing them because I feel bad for her and I also want to make sure I don’t give anyone a chance to call me selfish or bad or if I should just finish it and deal with being late or in a rush and then at the same time my dad hears me and so in the end what turns out to be something I did in order to get people to like me or be right it ends up making them hate me and even my dad starts yelling at me and calling me bad names and grabbing the dishes out of my hand and saying I don’t clean them properly it’s very very weird it’s like they it just makes me sad and wonder like why I became their scapegoat and also makes me frustrated because there’s no winning because even when I wash the dishes two or three times a day my mom will still mention how I could wash the dishes and all I’m hearing is it’s not good enough even if I wash them for time she’ll still mention the fifth time. And I just want to get it right and I wanna make sure she doesn’t have to keep mentioning it it’s just really exhausting but if I don’t do it now I can’t even worse and then in my head I’m wondering am I my crazy, do my parents have Alzheimer’s are they gaslighting me like Basically there’s so many interactions where I feel like there’s no winning for me or everything that was clear is not understood that I have to ask myself, “what just happened?” I still don’t know if they’re toxic or if I am toxic or what’s going on
It sounds like your parents may have a different standard or idea of what "doing the dishes" is like for some people it means doing every single dish in the sink. Orjust loading the dishwasher. I get treated this way too by people who refuse to communicate their specific ideas about things and it is a form of abuse autistic/ADHD people often are subjected to. It sounds like you may be feeling gaslit, and I don't think your parents seem to be being fair about their expectations. ADD is a legitimate disability, one that misunderstandings of have caused SO MUCH pain in my life,, and needs accommodations and different approaches. Just being yelled at about the same things over and over is not going to work and it is not how you deserve to be treated for struggling in your mind. I hope you find some support and peace.
My sister gives tenfold in the form of gifts and doing for others. It hurts to see her under appreciated. But my counselor said she has secondary motives, to feel sorry for herself. I don’t want to target her for this form of self abuse, because it is unconscious. She doesn’t see where her behavior comes from. It came from our childhood and upbringing which she will never confront. Because we are both terrified of a negative light.
thank you. for reminding me that I am allowed to exist. I am allowed to be human. and that I do not exist to please or fix other people. I am so grateful for your content.⭐️
I’m a fixer. It came up in an assessment as having a “McGyver” quality. It’s great to be resourceful as long as you don’t allow people to exploit it. Thank you, Patrick! ☀️
You (we) are probably also part of a rare breed of super detectors as identified by Malcolm Gladwell, the author. He mentions adult children of alcoholics but that really also includes adult children of dysfunction ruclips.net/video/OFILsii4Cwo/видео.html
this video about navigating people has given me the root of my problems…I am so afraid of being direct with people, that no one really knows who I am. - I am so grateful for you and thank you so much for your clear sightedness.
This is too relatable! It can be really obvious that we feel "less than" the person we're talking to, which can make being professional really confusing. I recently got promoted to a manager role and navigating all those power dynamics is the hardest part. In meetings with my team, I feel like I'm coming off controlling or micro-managey because I'm trying so hard to avoid that impulse to cater to them. Meanwhile with my boss, I get so intimidated that I freeze up and come off as airheaded or unprepared, when I really did prepare. I'm so used to acting inferior to other people that I don't know what a normal level of respect looks like. I'm really grateful that I got this promotion because it gives me an opportunity to really work on this stuff. I just hate feeling like I might be letting people down, because I genuinely respect my team AND my manager and I wish I was better at showing it. But I have to believe that they wouldn't have chosen me for this role if they didn't think I would be capable as I am. Definitely lots to work on, but I'm trying to stay positive and do my best!
You are so brave to work on all that directly and all at once. I feel like i cannot be in a position of power for all these reasons. My fears of abusing the power triggers me bad as well as my fears of being exploited for my over accommodation response. And all these things just trigger each other in a vicious cycle. What you shared gives me hope and inspires me.
Jennifer, I think it's really cool that you were promoted to a manager! I think many people like us don't get promoted, because we are so used to NOT being in charge. I am starting a career and I find these issues a little challenging. Things like pricing my work correctly. But I am learning!
This doctor is amazing! He made me realize that my "safe" parent expected perfection from me.. So perfection is love. Ugh. Wish I would have discovered this years ago. Hope I didn't damage my children too much.
Our overtures are always contingent on something the other person does or thinks-instead of being direct. Some of us don’t have a clue what we want except not to get yelled at or hurt!
Great video. Thank you! My codependent mother would cook like 50 different dishes for sunday family meals and it was uncomfortable for everybody. I learned a lot of these behaviours and am now unlearning. Thank you.
Oof. Out of all of these (which I have done to some extent) that first example was me to a T. I kinda cringed a bit. Until you hear it coming back at you, it's really hard to gauge how others feel when you're giving them a zillion options. Looking at people like potential bombs, and trying to carefully defuse them is a great analogy. Thank you!
Once I finally started looking at my own needs and stopped people pleasing I was “abandoned” by friends who didn’t like my new honesty and barriers. I still haven’t healed from that.
It's refreshing to hear someone else in the real world describe what mostly feels like my own parallel universe that nobody knows about. And exercises are great! And above all, the cat at 25:36 had me squealing ^o^
I was definitely a "head 'em off at the pass" person for years, with a touch of "kill 'em with kindness". I was constantly afraid of punishment or retaliation with my parents, so I needed to have an explanation planned for every malfeasance or perceived failure. This was especially present in my relationship with my narcissistic ex, for whom I'd have to walk on eggshells to avoid setting off his bad moods. I felt like if I just did everything perfectly, he wouldn't be angry or upset or bored with me. I didn't realize that not only was I never going to be good enough for him, NO ONE could ever be good enough for him in the long term, because he wanted impossible things. He wanted to have his cake, eat it too, AND have his girlfriend not respond negatively about it.
You couldn't get a straight answer from people in my family. I still live a life of the unknown. I finally did a family cut off because these dysfunctional patterns don't change. It's time for me to heal.
Both of my parents were emotionally damaged and their parenting style, especially towards me and my older brother ( the first two children) was extremely unpredictable and very physically abusive, but also very emotionally abusive. I've really struggled with decisions, being direct, having personal boundaries and the like. What I've come to recognize over the decades of life is the damage of such a childhood is compounded by judgmental people throughout life because rather than coming from a place of compassionate understanding that we who are badly abused did not choose or deserve the abuse and subsequent damage and don't live accordingly, intentionally, but rather out of ignorance and well established survival strategies. So until we find the help we need we are simply further abused by society. I'm truly thankful for videos such as this both to help myself as well as to, hopefully, enlightened others, with the hope they will learn to be kind and compassionate towards those who have yet to heal from the damage of childhood abuse.
I didn't realize that I navigate people and I actually do that a lot. This is indeed exhausting to me and a recipient as well, so I will try to be more direct, thank you!
So pre-video I said that I practiced #1 and #4. Post-video I realize I use all 4. Everything hit home. I loved what your mentor shared with you that you had nothing to work with, you did your best. Me, too. I'm starting to feel less like a complete failure and instead proud of myself for having navigated...and survived...a hellish childhood. Again, thank you for what you do.
I've always been codependent. I've realized that all my life, I have mostly just tended to the needs of others, asking sneaky questions when i want something for myself and overexplaining myself when no explanations would've been fine. And due to all of this, I don't know myself as much as I thought I did. I had always just conformed and adapted to the surrounding people and environment, that I could fit in with any crowd for the most part. Now, I am trying to finally understand and listen to myself and meeting their unmet needs. To find my inner courage
This is so eye opening...that it's a type of controlling. Also, I wanted to thank you for the creative shorts that explain something in a visual or auditory style (like the airplane propellor or the drumming/guitar/horn examples).
It felt like you were impersonating my mother for the first minute lol. Thank you for validating how it feels to be on the receiving end of that!! I get why she does it, but it really doesn't feel good to be treated like a bomb.
Me too!! All the time with my mom and I get so annoyed...but I also probably do it to some extent because I'm definitely a people pleaser. Actually what I do most is just ask the other person to choose cause I don't want complaints. And I've realized how depressed I can become when I don't do anything I want lol. And then I become secluded and avoid people...ugh
I feel it's also a common experience with my friends with anxiety. They're essentially spewing their anxiety filled stream of consciousness at you. I find it completely overwhelming as a receiver.
Types of codependent navigating #1 kill them with kindness 6:33 #2 heading them off with a pass 10:42 #3 check it out x 5 (not trusting) 15:41 #4 sneaky questions 20:16
Got into a conversation with a family member who was judging my actions, accusing me of something. I apologized and apologized, I'll do this for you, I'll do that. Afterward I thought about what they said and it was totally off base. I felt so pathetic when I realized how much I lowered myself to someone who didn't deserve it. It was a very, very good lesson.
Please consider doing a video on how to find out what we want and need, after we pull back all of these strategies. And thanks again for all of the specific suggestions /tips on this vIdeo!!!
Definitely "killing w/kindness for me". I can remember being shamed by my "moody, narcissist father". Also, the church I was in. Always helping people I hardly knew. I'm aware I do that. But thanks for explaining....and reminding me. Great vid
"No response " experiment... 10 years in CODA meetings, and I haven't heard of this until now. That sense of belonging (lack of) has been driving some care taking reactions. What an eye opener assignment. Thanks for the channel and for sharing this talent you have.
My mom lived by the "kill them with kindness" mantra and taught my sisters and I to live by it. (My mom had a very abusive, terrible childhood.) I never realized how unhealthy it was until I started watching Patrick's videos, and how much she really raised us to be codependent. It feels so freeing to unlearn these "traits" and healing toward finding my authentic self ♥️ Thank you for these videos!
I had a volunteer manager like that. She was completely passive and said "kill them with kindness". She remarried shortly after I started working for her and everyone but her could see her husband was using her for money. The marriage lasted two years. When I complained about very rude professional people calling on the phone on reception she would just say that they had mental health problems. If anyone called me on the phone and straight away said "Where are you?" I would answer with "Who are you first?" It caught them off guard. Or they would demand I come to the lobby to take boxes of leaflets or books in the lift for them as they had parked on double yellow lines. I would claim I couldn't leave the office so they had to bring it all up in the lift to the office. Then I would sit back and hoped they would get a parking ticket.
This video made me feel so shocked. I literally heard you speak as I usually speak to people in that first section. Thank you so much for this content and the way you basically act out different scenarios so we can really understand what you mean. Very helpful.
That kitty paw under the door is adorable. I'm just beginning to understand my childhood. Until recently, I thought these behaviors were an improvement over "I'll get mad before you have a chance to get mad" or "my rage will out do yours" Usually I'll think of all the ways someone might get mad and try to over explain how I already fixed it or how we avoid it. I'm glad I found this channel.
Yes to the kitty paw comment! I wanted to open that door so badly! The observations Patrick made resonated more with me than I thought they would. Maybe I’ve blocked some significant memories because I do several of the behaviors he describes.
I didn't think I would relate to the second point, until I realized that without being asked, I made a whole presentation about what I've been doing lately, just in case. Even though I am present at my desk constantly focused on relevant projects, the lack of deliverables makes me feel insecure; they might think I'm not doing anything. As if not having something perfectly tangible every other day is the end of the world and won't be accepted. I have this innate feeling that no one trusts me, especially my boss. Even though I have never been given evidence of it, I fear that some imagined, looming obsolescence will strike me suddenly and critically. Through my actions I'm trying to scream, "I'm not useless, I can help, please don't give up on me." I don't know how else to be, and it's exhausting. Why can't I just believe that people like me?
Wow, interesting. I've done a version of this for a long time that is more like "it doesn't matter, your choice" or "I have no preference"... And I would genuinely not have one. This would frustrate my husband. Of course his frustration mystified me. As I've gotten older, I personally celebrate having actual preferences that I voice and stick to. I intuitively knew it was growing up, not selfishness. Quite the revelation!
I appreciate these videos so much. They are so healing- they hold up a mirror to many of my issues. The role play at the beginning sounds so much like me 🙈 I'm not only terrified of saying the wrong thing, but it honestly feels impossible most of the time 😔 I learned at a very young age that it's not safe to ask questions or speak up. I'm the youngest of 5 so I learned a lot by watching my mom's wrath being taken out on my older siblings. I learned how to avoid setting off the ticking time bomb... so she made me her "golden child" for a long time. But once I started speaking up and choosing my own path in life, her wrath finally turned on me. We haven't spoken in years.
I was pretty neglected as a child and literally raised myself.But due to extensive reading and knowledge seeking about all the psychological issues I could develop because of that childhood neglect I ended up being cold and guarded all my life and selectively kind to people who are kind to me.My childhood neglect did not soften me up ,it toughen me up.I say all that comes to my mind without any guilt
I can feel that especially the Self education phase and for me personally its also that my mom don’t accept my views now that i have my own and always tells me „thats not how i rased you“ while i think „damn thats true you didnt rase like that i had to“
This was so incredibly helpful. Thank you so much. I often feel like I’ve fallen between the cracks because I didn’t experience typical childhood trauma, but more of a low grade dysfunction. I truly feel my parents did the best they knew how, but there was a disconnect that led me to people pleasing and navigating explained here. While I feel at peace with my folks and where they came from, I’m starting to understand why I perceive and do the things I do now, at 50. So helpful! You’re awesome!
Thank you for the observation that these behaviors are logical and adaptive in response to abuse, not simply maladaptive. Sometimes I feel like trauma-generated behaviors are just one more thing I do wrong and need to fix about myself.
Thank you for giving examples of normal behaviors also. When you explain the codependent behaviors I see what you’re saying then I started thinking “how else am I suppose to behave. What am I supposed to do?”
Thank you so much. I feel so understood with your videos. I just got diagnosed with CPTSD due to childhood trauma and all of this information makes me understand so much better as to why I do some of the things I do. It feels even better knowing you come from a similar background. So you undoubtedly understand! Thank you!
Point taken - I don’t want to be indirect. Think my fear of others anger and abandonment fuels my hesitation. But if in reality I am not measuring up or acceptable to them, it’s torture to keep trying because they just keep moving the goal line. Better to remain myself and deal with reality not my wishful thinking regarding a relationship with another.
This really resonated. Found myself cringing at myself a few times. Regarding the indirect questions, in my family there are a couple of people who do it as a form of manipulation - you will feel you are being slimed becase info is being elicited from you but you don't know why at the time.
I also cringed quite a lot, and also felt a gut punch when the sneaky questions portion came up. The last few months I have been feeling that it seems like manipulative behavior, but didn't know how to articulate it... this video helped immensely.
I never knew how so many parts of my personality formed out of childhood trauma until watching your videos. Thank you for everything you do for people like us. Your videos are helping me heal and better my behaviors.
I needed to hear this today.I would really like to teach my inner child that trying to anticipate everyones needs and reactions isn't required for safety anymore, it takes up so much energy! I'm thankful for the help surviving my childhood and trying hard to reparent myself. It's hard. Thanks for this video, it helps me be reflective and gives me new perspectives on myself and my parents.
Thank you so much Patrick!!! Don't know if I am the only one that requested this video, but it's so so helpful! Giving vocabulary and context to understand my codependent strategies. This is straight up me. ❤️
Man. I'm so glad I found you through shorts. Your calm demeanor and gentle encouragement is very, very healing to my inner child. I think I've already been doing a lot of work internally to be at the point I am now where I *am* standing up for myself more and I *am* allowing myself to take up space. But I'm also so happy for this channel because you not only put names and words to these things we feel but also talk about it without judgement. I can learn and grow and not be afraid; the fact that I'm changing doesn't mean I wasn't good enough, changing is the *point.* I want to be happy. I want to be an interesting person! And I'm gonna do it!!!
Wow. Breaks my heart that I do this. Even after so many years of therapy. I am not sure why I didn't realize this. I really do value others more than myself. Now I know.
I love how specific and non-vague these videos are, it's the kind of wisdom and knowledge you can't learn in books. Some really great content on this channel.
Nice video. This really shows the ways that codependency lingers even if we've moved on in our lives in other ways. Thanks for your continued work, Patrick!
Thank you so much for your videos!! You have already helped me so much and i had many A-ha moments. I grew up with a narcissistic, passive-aggressive, deeply bitter mother and a father in the autism spectrum who was kind but in his own world and unavailable
The helping the boss and everybody else at work while running yourself into the ground resonates with me. I did run myself into the ground at the time. Practising good enough behaviour is exactly on point for me.
Noooooooo! That's really me. I am highly anxious about other being upset with me secretly and this is exactly how I sound. Been working on that and slowly healing this pattern. I appreciate this so much❤
thank you so much for your videos… For me, you have the best videos of all the narcissism videos I have ever watched…. I have many aha moments from your specific examples that you give. Most of the narc experts, don’t get into specific examples and are too general.
Lol! I do this and my mom does this. My husband calls me out on it which is very helpful. He says stop trying to fix a problem that hasn't even happened yet. It helps me look at the situation and try to see what's causing this worry that I'm going to mess up and "get in trouble".
I loved this whole video AND during the final thoughts I thought I was seeing things but the cat trying to get in the door was hilarious and just what I needed today!
My mom does all of these. Sometimes to get a straight answer from her, I have to do the sneaky questions. It's like I have to have to speak her language lol. It's kind of funny but mostly sad. It's exhausting. I don't want to have to sus out the information, one little piece at a time. I don't want to have to put so much energy into practically manipulating her into accidentally giving away her true answer, when it could have been a simple yes or no, and we move on with our lives. But if I don't play that game, it seems liked I'll never get that clarity and sometimes it is very much needed.
Very sad and exhausting… it’s like relating to them has made you feel like you’re wringing your neck or putting your head on a guillotine. It’s very hard to know how to be,
I caught myself asking a slightly sneaky question yesterday to my partner. “Are you warm, do you want me to turn on the AC?” They said no and I felt weirdly disappointed. Then I realized that *I* was the one who was feeling warm and wanted the AC on. I didn’t even realize it in the moment, my default was to defer to my partner.
My bf noticed I adjust the vizor in the car based on him adjusting his and started rapidly messing with it one day until it became obvious I was copying him. I hadn't even realized I was doing it until then. I think it comes from the same place.
@@ANPC-pi9vu it is a bit like mirroring people when you’re talking to them (which I do all the time). They cross their legs, I do too. They uncross them I do too. They have a sip of coffee, I have a sip of coffee. Been trying to stop myself doing it so much.
The drinking one is hard i just have to take a sip too its annoying especially if they notice.
It *is* a sneaky question
If you're warm, just say
"I'm warm; I'm going to turn on the AC."
If the other person doesn't want AC on, it's up to them to say something at that point.
Great insight!
“Allow others to experience you, not what you provide for them” is hitting me hard because my first impulse is, what I provide for others IS who/what I am. If I’m not providing for them, then what is there to experience? Not sure how to process that one, but definitely need to process it. I think I don’t have a sense of self or identity, I only see myself as what I can contribute. And at this stage in my life of chronic illness, I receive far more than I am able to give, and it’s been a huge point of self loathing that I have nothing to give or can’t reciprocate.
This is my husband 100%. I wish you well with your health and identity development. Who would you be if you were alone for a week? What would you be interested in reading about our doing?
I feel you SO MUCH on this! Receiving and giving occupy my mind. Just being, gets lost in the worry bc I am also chronically ill with fluctuating abilities. Theres always the question if I am being reciprocal enough or taking too much and if I am, I'll cut into my personal money, time, and energy to protect myself from that fear or shut down and avoid everyone. Not sure how to reconcile it either. I am also autistic and laughed a bit at not needing to have a response for anything -if I don't script or rehearse I get very lost in social interactions. So there has to be a balance.
Perhaps what you have to give now is the pleasure of your company.
You can learn to discover yourself🌻
I'm so sorry to hear you're dealing with the chronic illness. For many of us with cptsd our bodies Force us to face the things we aren't looking at. Perhaps this is an opportunity for you to finally rest and receive. Maybe some mantras when someone is caring for you would be supportive.
What made it easy for me to move away from this behavior was to realize that they would push healthy people away while keeping toxic people around. Healthy people sense the manipulation in your eggshell-walking around them and feel automatically uncomfortable around someone who is terrified of taking up space and being authentic. It subtly communicates the message to them that you see them as a treat and that's not exactly a compliment. Healthy people WANT others to have boundaries because people with boundaries and preferences are inherently easier to be around and allow others to be themselves too.
^^^^ something that keeps me trapped is being afraid to accept that if someone keeps interpreting my boundaries as a problem, or wants me to people please, they are not good for me to be around. Not wanting to "lose" toxic people by finding out how they react to a boundary so you avoid ever being direct to "keep" them or ignore when they react badly bc it must have been an exception... its a form of delusion and I want to change so badly im just scared when people leave my life ill spiral into thinking its all my fault and I am broken.
Truth
Thank you. I needed to read this.
@@themidnightcleric I can relate to this so much. You are not alone.
So very well said! ❤️
"Allow people to experience you, not what you provide." Well, that hit very deeply - exactly where it should.
Unfortunately, I feel like many people only want what we provide.
Same.😮
Whoa! 😳
Such a difficult concept for me to grasp. How will they know me then? I mean one can’t just be. What value is that?
I know this thinking is exactly what’s being confronted here. But what if that’s who I am.
“Navigating the world without an adult behind you” was terrifying growing up. I feel like I lack a lot of things now on top of battling CPTSD.
I can relate. It’s tough for sure. ❤️
same
Patrick is really great and helpful- very precise and easy to understand. I'm curious if you watch Tim Fletcher at all? He has some really great information and work for PTSD. Sometimes it's so validating and also overwhelming to hear all of these relatable topics. I know I struggle.
I'm in the same boat. I have CPTSD 😭
Yes Patrick. These have been my patterns.
I continue to appreciate the way you lay things out & connect the dots. You validate & show compassion for the inner child's experiences, bring clarity & insight on the behavioral patterns & underlying motives as adults, & then give an action plan toward healthy changes. You are such a valuable resource for healing and growth. Thank you!
"People pleasing is enjoyed by those who take advantage." Now I know that I need MUCH stronger boundaries!
Not true! You want to o please them because you don’t Want to take advantage!!
Precisely , same here , so friggin exhausted and fed up of ppl pleasing crap ! Strong and firm boundaries is super essential for us !
@@kathymyers7279 I think he meant that other people take advantage of people pleasers, like toxic partners or parents.
narcissist mother- plus Cheater Liar Father: plus ABSENT SISTER PLUS Druggy strange brother.
Ditto!! We're in same boat.
“Killing them with kindness is beneath you”- I really needed to hear this one. Now I need to put it in practice
i'm currently living with a woman who got out of an abusive home recently and the roleplay at the beginning was EXACTLY how she talks. i thanked her for cleaning the sink recently and she responded by apologizing that she hadn't cleaned the rest of the bathroom. hope she becomes more comfortable as things go on because she deserves to be.
@@AV-do9qr I do clean, I'm not sure where this implies that I don't.
@@isobeltotten4402 just stereotyped assumption that men don't do much of a household chores (again I assumed that you are a man while nothing in your post says so)
@@payalkakade lol yeah i'm not a man either...
I hope you two are navigating what you need to- May you have patience you need.
@@payalkakade hey pal, why would you assume someone named Isobel was a guy? Is it impossible to imagine women cohabitating? Im genuinely curious...
Try to spot one of my kittens trying to get into my office towards the end
😂😎
🤣
I saw the door behind you open in the TikTok on this- didn’t realize it was one of your kitties
Kitties are The Most persistent … 😻
I went into the comments to see if anyone noticed! Thanks for the video.
Smart keeping them out. Kittens are so captivating!💕😻
I woke up one day in the past few weeks to my inner child being gone. That energy body within me that formed in my childhood, that used to run my life is integrated into the rest of me. I'm no longer reactive to every day situations, I don't get triggered and I can communicate to others much more effectively. My inner child has dissolved through doing a lot of this work consistently. I caught myself the other day instinctively enacting my boundaries with someone who was breadcrumbing me and trying to get me to self-abandon to meet their needs. Thats the same behaviour I would have accepted a year ago and responded to by codependently trying to please. I was so surprised with myself. I didn't recognize this new version of me. It made me so proud. My body is markedly more relaxed. I don't get adrenalized and the constant tightness in my belly and my stomach problems have all but disappeared. I no longer have crippling social anxiety on a daily basis. I can talk to strangers without feeling like crawling into myself. I feel so at ease. I feel so in control of my inner world and so at peace. This is why life felt so miserable and difficult before, because my inner world was so chaotic and reactive. I never imagined I could live in this state. This work is so rewarding❤
It's like finding a missing person, you!
This is amazing. I'm so happy for you. It's what I'm currently working on doing.
Kude, Can I ask what you've been doing, reading, exercises etc to get to that state? That sounds amazing. It gives me so much hope that maybe I can get there too.
Thank you so much for sharing this! So motivating
Bro FUCK YES! that's what the fuck is up. I'm so proud & grateful for your experience! It's inspiring as hell to me & I thank you for your confidence to shareeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeerrr
Even that question “do you navigate people?” causes me so much discomfort and shame. Because the very fact that it’s a question means NOT doing it is an option which blows my mind while simultaneously causing me to realize it probably shouldn’t blow my mind.
Same. In the last few years I've been learning a LOT about my people pleasing, codependency, and how to have healthy boundaries and how to effectively communicate and hold them, how to stand up for myself, and a host of other things wrong with me.
But I sure am glad I'm learning them! It's so much better to have self awareness and be aware of the problems, AND know what to do instead and why and have an arsenal of tools to use.
I'm still confused about it being an option. Are those things you that shouldn't be necessary? Like... how? Just how?
@@toni2309 I don't have a concise answer for that. I've found good information on these channels: this one, Stephanie Lynn, Mended Light, Therapy in a Nutshell and Put the Shovel Down - great vids on healthy boundaries and how to enforce them. Also, good communication skills on these channels but also Chris Voss and Bob Bordone.
@@tinaperez7393 I'm not sure they are going to answer my question tbh, I very much doubt it actually. I've never really seen any really good info on boundaries and communication that actually works for neurodivergent people.
@@toni2309 yeah, well, I dunno. All I know about myself are the very good videos on boundaries on Our Down the Shovel, then Therapy in a nutshell, then Mended Light and Stephanie Lynn. Those were very helpful / useful and practical for me. I don't know your situation or limitations all I can say is what worked for me.
9:45 "Give 80% instead of the 120% you're used to." - That's what I've been doing lately. It makes life a lot easier.
My mother was raised to be kind, unselfish, and super Christian, and asking for something for yourself was bad. So when I shall visit her, she starts with: «When do you come?»
Me: «When is best for you?»
She: «It’s the same for me. You decide.»
Me: «Ok, it’s best for me at 10. I can't be late.»
She: «10-10:30?»
Me: «Ok.»
Then she calls a few hours later: «When will you come again? Was it 11?»
Me: «10-10:30.»
She: «Oh yes, 10.30-11.»
The next days she calls several times to ‘confirm’ when I was coming, and you guess it, slowly she manipulates me to come at 12 o’clock which was her preferred time from the beginning. Both cute and sad. She is a very kind lady, but it’s sad to think about her whole life she was like this, never could speak out her own needs, and now she's ninety.
We have the same mother!
So many “Christian values” are objectively dysfunctional and harmful
Your mother at age 90 could possibly be suffering from dementia. My mom had this same behavior and requests. Keep in mind that I had been estranged from my mother for 3 1/2 years. When we reconnected, I initially thought that she was being manipulative. Same old behavior - No, I believe that I could see the mental decline, because I had not seen her in a long time.
I have had the same problem with my parents all my life. Now they are getting elderly it makes the situation even worse. I am trying to find the words to tell my dad that he is so incredibly selfish for refusing to say no or refusing to have preferences, expecting me and my siblings to mind read what he wants. It's putting us in a terrible position, and right now I just have to keep away as much as I can.
@@sheilamorris2408 of course, that is something to have in mind. But with my mother this is a long life pattern. And she doesn't do this if I suggest the time she actually wants from the beginning. So it's not failing memory. It's the only way she knows to get her way without saying it in a direct way.
That moment when he said "I'm proud of you" by validating my childhood survival traits slammed me so fast and so hard, I started crying out of nowhere and had to stop the video for nearly 30 minutes. How POWERFUL that childhood validation is. My nerves are already shot. I will come back to this later...
I know....same reaction from me.
Hopefully your young enough for it to really help.... nevermind
SOUNDS LIKE NOT A PARENT OMG ITS A HUGE 24 7 365 DEMANDING EXHAUSTING THANKLESS JOB WITH NO TRAINING FEELS LIKE GIGANTIC CRITICAL UNKIND JUDGMENTAL OF PARENTS
PARENTS NEEEED HELP INSTEAD OF ALWAYS BLAMING JUDGING PLEASE HELP PARENTS MORE HELP FOR ON HOW TO WITH KINDNESS TEACH HOW TO BE A BETTER PARENT WOULD HUGE HELP.
Bro, the bar is so low. Meet 33% of the emotional need, and treat the child like a fellow human and you're good. I make mistakes but my kids can say "mom that was rude!" And not fear getting hit across the face with a chair. I am winning big here.
Hugs ❤
@@dlewis895why are you yelling
6:35 "KILL'EM WITH KINDNESS" - being totally accommodating to others. May be caused by having a moody parent or a selfless codependent parent. To counteract it, practice doing "good enough" behaviors.
10:48 "HEAD'EM OFF AT THE PASS" - predicting how others will react and getting out ahead of them; overexplaining. May be caused by having to fill in parental holes in the family; having perfectionistic parents; having to figure things out without any parental guidance. Experiment with not having a response for everything. Answer questions without a backstory or an apology. Stop forecasting other people's needs or trying to impress them with your ability to do that. Allow others to experience you, not what you provide for them.
15:44 "CHECK IT TIMES 5 (NOT TRUSTING)" - repeatedly questioning others, neurotically testing others to see if they are on the same page. Comes off as badgering others. May be caused by neglectful parenting, having experienced major catastrophes in childhood. Experiment with confirming plans with others only once.
20:22 "SNEAKY QUESTIONS" - asking indirect questions instead of expressing thoughts and requests directly. May be caused by parental overreactions to children's questions and requests. Try journaling about how being direct growing up wasn't safe and ways parents themselves were indirect.
Crap, I do all of these. And if I'm not doing them, what personality do I have left?
@@bricksfeathers5423 Thanks for this summary. To your question, I believe these strategies and behaviors are not your personality. You do these things, but they aren't who you are. I'm guessing that by learning to not do these things except for occasionally when it is truly helpful, your true self will be able to shine through.
@@bricksfeathers5423 I was just thinking something similar #relateable 😮💨 Thanks for the summary 😊 🙏🏾
@@bricksfeathers5423 You have one, and its a wonderful, bright personality that walks through life with less fear and anxiety. Keep doing the work! It gets better.
@@bricksfeathers5423 Your personality is hiding inside you!!! I believe in you that you can find your best fullest self
The part about fulfilling others' needs without knowing our own hits so close to home...
“Head em off at the pass” is basically my entire personality in a nutshell. I will perfectly position myself, make sure all the dominos are lined up with 10 contingencies, before I express myself. I always feel like I’m not “allowed” to be upset with someone else if I myself am not absolutely perfect. I make sure I have a prepared answer for everything and anticipate how I believe the other person will react to best keep the peace while making sure eyes aren’t on me. If I air a grievance I make sure to ask over and over if it isn’t actually MY fault they messed up (a huge problem at work). I would never “bother” my husband with anything because I didn’t want him to feel “obligated” to me, so I would always make excuses for him. I would try to make things easier for others while over complicating things, then have an absolute meltdown if anything messed up or someone got annoyed. Its the hardest codependent habit to break and I don’t know if I’m ready to yet, tbh. It feels safe.
Me at 48. It makes me sad and angry and I just want “them” to get it….
I feel like I’m being gaslit and the only thing is to not care about them getting it… but I don’t want to do that.
There is SO much anxiety around figuring out the balance beteeen what I need and pleasing others…
To the point where I’m losing my sanity and soul.
I need help
@@visionvixxen It takes time, but relax, you're on the right path.💕
Totally, totally relate. Sending love 🥰❤
Thanks for providing these examples, the "not 'allowed' to be upset" thing hits on something for me... I think part of it was seeing my parents have unproductive fights and poor anger management. On top of being socialized as Girl, this led to me smooshing down my anger constantly.
Another part is not knowing how to feel my feelings and have the knowledge of boundaries/etc to notice that someone apologizing is different from them changing their behavior. I thought loving someone meant accepting them as they were, and I didn't realize that DIDN'T mean "also ignore or sacrifice your own wants and needs when they consistently fail to follow through or demonstrate any kind of accountability for their actions."
Oh man, reading this was a lightbulb moment for me. Fuuuuuuuuck. hahahahah
I did this to my therapist once when she asked when to schedule our next meeting. I gave her the whole song and dance, like “does this work for you? If not I understand, it was my fault we missed a week, blah blah”. She said “Gennifer, I’m not an ogre 😏Next time, just tell me what works and it will be way faster for us both”. Totally put it into perspective for me! I am safe now, I don’t have to walk on eggshells with everyone in my life like I did as a child.
Most of my fights with my husband have been because of this behavior. He hates it. But I was so immersed in it as a child that when someone tells me to stop, it feels like telling me that it would be nice if I stopped breathing oxygen.
My parents were both crazy servants. Dad worked 80-100 hours a week at a non-profit and would go help someone who asked anytime day or night. It wasn’t weird for him to leave at 3am to go sit with someone. Don’t get me wrong, it’s kind of nice to have such an example of compassion-but it was just so so much.
My Mom was the perfect housewife who made sure every possible guest need was not only prepared for, but ALWAYS prepared in case someone dropped by. A tissue box next to every seat, a trash can in every room, perpetually clean, and snacks kept for guests. Even the insides of cupboards in case someone checked inside (which unfortunately they sometimes did).
They were also total perfectionists. Every conversation, school project, or performance was up for review.
They meant well-but when I’d complain I was tired or I wanted to skip an opportunity to volunteer, I’d get called selfish or lazy. Whenever someone else made crazy inhuman sacrifices, it was held up for me as an example. I’d specifically feel almost ill when another person my age was held up as a paragon of some quality I’d just been told I lacked. Especially “mature.” I got called immature all the time. I don’t ever remember getting called mature myself. Even into adulthood and motherhood I’ve still been called immature. Then I go into a spiral of checking every square inch of my life for evidence of immaturity, ending in confusion for me. And how could I be upset? They were feeding the homeless and giving everything they had to others. I had nothing to point to to understand where they might be wrong.
I feel guilty over any rest, even just going to bed early, always. I love my parents. They really are so generous. They just wanted to teach me compassion and generosity. There was just no room to breathe. I’ve improved somewhat. I’m really careful with my checking. The first two are still full on pathological conditions.
They had hard childhoods with no permission to rest. I get it. I’m just working to teach work AND rest AND compassion to my kids.
Oh, and every time someone else is direct it feels like they might as well be jumping out of a plane in front of me. I get that roller coaster scare in my stomach every time.
I completely relate on always being called immature despite being forced to be the only mature person on what felt like the entire planet!
I had a very similar upbringing. My parents would tell me that if I didn’t serve others with my time and talents, god would take what I had away from me. They truly believe that and still do. My dad would use up all his energy helping others that he would ignore the family and our needs, or get resentful if we needed him to help us with anything. I was forced to sing/play music since I was 6 years old and truly believed if I didn’t perform anytime I was asked, or if I sinned, that god would take away my voice or my hands. I would envision losing my limbs in freak accidents if I fought with my brother and every time I got sick I panicked, thinking I’d done something horribly wrong and my voice would be gone forever.
I totally relate - I cringe when anyone is direct with my parents - take cover!
@@mooncarrotarts261 that is absolutely horrible! I hope you have healed that toxic and untrue programming by now. You were conditioned to be a slave. I’m so sorry you went through that.
Feeling guilty about not doing or being enough when you go to sleep... like you gotta earn your sleep with fatigue/exhaustion
What i love about this guy is that he knows what he's talking about from experience, not just based on books read.
I've been in therapy a number of times and have only had one good therapist. I felt with other therapists that they think they have you all figured out because they've talked with you a couple times and would tell me why i do certain things and they couldn't have been farther from the truth.
Thanks for your videos!!!
Yes, years and years of therapists. Two good ones.
Yeah, and then they project their shot on you and then tell you you cant self-reflect because you refuse to accept a (wrong) diagnosis, hello?!
I stayed in & with group therapy due to meeting a few BAD counselors & hearing very bad stories about pathetic counselors.
Alice Miller helped me understand why some counselors are SO B A D! 😂
Preach
I absolutely love how you're empowering people to recognize these as beautiful and potent social skills that have assumed a maladaptive role in their lives. Because once they really work on and move through difficulty from their trauma they are now primed as some of the best people on the planet at these skills and can use that to improve their and others' lives.
love this comment. thank you for your thoughtful response
Wonderful comment, expressed perfectly.
Yes!
Great insight! Also very encouraging! ♥️
I never looked at it this way. Thank you.
When I was in my 20s and living away from home because I had bolted asap, I used to constantly apologize to people for my lack of social graces and explain to them “I was raised by wolves.” But it only really hit me in my 40s that I was neglected AND traumatized. And suddenly so much of my life (bad choices, weird reactions, odd inability to sense toxic people while also having a weird “spidey sense” about other people and situations) made so much sense. And it all came flooding back. The constant manipulation, lies, gaslighting, walking on eggshells, tauntings, and being scapegoated on top of being neglected and left to basically fend for myself.
Recently my Mom passed and while researching her life for her obit I discovered that she lied about EVERYTHING. Many unnecessary things. It’s like she’s taunting me from the beyond.
Wow that must be hard to take in. I've been friends with a woman for a year and she told me her husband lied an awful lot....but then I noticed she was lying so now I don't know what to believe either.
@@SophiesWorld2024 This is something I have to admit - lying is contagious. Truth was relative in my household growing up. Plus I’d constantly get accused of lying when I was telling the truth, so why would I bother telling the truth? We all assumed most of what eachother was saying was BS. So I didn’t feel any necessity to tell the truth, and constantly lied. About stupid little things as well as big things. All the time. But as an adult, when I got away from my family, I realized it was not only creepy and unnecessary, but it was causing too much anxiety to try to remember the lies and to keep them going. Then being caught made people distrust me, so it’s no way to live. So I made a concerted effort to stop that behavior. But every time I got back around my family I’d fall back into the same patterns of assuming they’re all constantly lying (they usually are,) and also just not bothering with the truth myself, since it only ever got me punished. In other words, I know it’s hard to understand, but it may be that your friend just has a weird relationship with the truth, since she’s been gaslit so often by her husband, truth becomes a strange concept. I also know, though, that it’s very difficult to be friends with someone you can’t trust.
Very similar to my lack of upbringing.
Mom took us away in the night at 13, sperm donor died right after my 16th birthday.
He was the narcissistic that put this shit in motion, but my mom and sisters can't seem to see that they still scapegoat me, they still see me as poor Shawn she's got mental problems. Yea, it's called cptsd, and my parents caused it. So now what?
Stay strong, your doing fabulous!!
Ooh I call it Spidey Sense too, thankyou for your amazing comment, I totally relate. Sending blessings 🙌 🙏
My condolences on the passing of your mom. 🙏
All of your subjects are hitting so close to home with me, the last couple months especially hard. Sometimes so much so that I find them difficult to watch. Sometimes I am not able for fear of spiralling and rumination. I keep trying. I appreciate that this information is here for me when I need it. 🙏🏻
@Kristin MacKenzie - so glad you mentioned the rumination! Me too! Patrick's videos hit so close to home, they leave me in a very pensive and reflecting mood, sometimes even a bit brooding. But I take this to mean that we are processing and reflecting on our own truths, that have been unknown and repressed/withheld for so long. We are finally integrating unrealized, unprocessed parts of ourselves. I think as we get to live from them, little by little, so will it become part of our reality.
You’re doing awesome, give yourself credit! :)
@Kristin MacKenzie• This is me!
I can beyond relate. For the past few months I now listen to Patrick’s videos while I’m cooking because inevitably I’m crying! That way my kids don’t think something’s ALWAYS wrong w/mom crying all the time. Now it’s onions or what not😉
I had to come up w/a solution because I stopped listening for fear of spiraling or getting so down & sad. For me making it to the end of his videos always helps so much🫶and reading comments like yours helps tremendously make me feel that I’m not alone♥️
I am also here with you on this one. Breathing exercises help me accept the information a bit better sometimes. But yeah, Patrick always hits it out of the park and into the bruised part of my soul (in a good way).
Yepppp... I pause.. A LOT! I put it away until *something* happens n I come back to take it all in.
I'm tearing up a little bit listening to this. My childhood and now my marriage. Please pray for our healing. 😢
I’m 76 and just beginning to understand that I grew up with domestic violence. I have not understood why I am so uncomfortable in relationships- always doubting my self, my feelings, and my needs. I have been aware that image management is very important to me to feel safe from criticism or abandonment. I so appreciate these explanations as they give me a way of understanding myself better. My hope is that I will come to accept and appreciate myself and maybe be comfortable in my own skin.
Tjank you for your share.
May you have peace Jennifer. I am sorry you have had to go through this for so long. 💙💙💙💙💙
Mental health dictates physical health. 76 is a long time to live your life this way. You've just made a huge jump, and I bet the next 100 years will be full of love and discovery.
We love us❤
It’s never too late to heal ❤️
I totally maneuver in these ways. Over explaining, and Guessing the outcome before an interaction. Being in as much control as possible makes me feel safe. You've explained Codependency far better than my therapist did when I brought up these issues with her. I appreciate the use of the word "Maneuvers" over Manipulations, since I'm not trying to do these things to hurt people; I'm just trying to be safe because I learned that I had to do this to protect myself with a neglectful, unpredictable parent in my childhood. Finally putting some things together. Thank you Patrick!
Yeah. I also never saw it as manipulation because I'm trying to appease others and shouldn't they be satisfied with that? It's maladaptive, yes, but not malicious.
I definitely over explain and say too much. I have these thoughts in the back of my mind in so many situations of people judging me, thinking I'm a horrible person, thinking I did something wrong. I think about people having bad intentions toward me all the time and it's not healthy.
Omg I have this too! I knew I was doing it, but when my boss picked up in it I knew I needed to learn a way to stop. This video is really helpful. Would love a part two though, where we can learn strategies for getting used to the uncertainty from being more direct and not constatly seeking approval and reassurance when interacting with people.
@@Arya-cf7vu I agree, we need strategies to not seek approval. I'm so glad for this channel, Patrick is very good at explaining things I can't put words to. I felt triggered listening to this one lol. But that's good! I think...
Wow, this was so helpful. My father was emotionally unavailable and my mother's go to emotion was anger and rage. I was never shown healthy ways to communicate or have disagreements, or love someone. I negotiate around people because inside I feel that anyone can harbor that emotional time bomb. When they detonate I think "see, you know how unpredictable and unstable people are and you weren't ready".
I would have given anything to have heard so many of your talks when I was little. It was the 70s. No computers, and awareness of childhood trauma was almost non existent. Thank You Patrick. Ive come a long way but I still have so much to work on.
❤. I could have written this verbatim. Thank you.🙏🏽
Mirror image home, here, but same result. Both parents came from physically abusive homes. Neither one had any idea about how to handle conflict or anger. Dad was the emotional time bomb, Mom was the preemptive accommodating codependent. Two kids became people pleasers🙋♀️, one has a rather spicy Type B personality disorder.
The video hasn't even aired and I'm like 🖐🖐🖐 I call it "manouvering" though, that term better expresses what I feel in the heft of evaluating people's natures and manipulating the social environment to feel safe for everyone.
Why manipulate? I prefer "steer" and "influence".
@@timefortee it's the same thing with different stigmas. You manipulate a blanket to put it on a bed. You manipulate a lock with a key. The people who hurt us use manipulation-- to the purpose of getting their toxic way. Manipulation is a tool. It's what we do when we grey rock for example, and that's not an inherently bad or toxic thing. The difference is intent. Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk 😅😂😂 I'm worried that someone will have the word "manipulation" as a trigger and want to tear my head off but I am posting this anyway because I feel it's important and maybe it will even help those people in the long run. 😅
maneuvering is with an "eu" in there not "ou".
@@dddmemaybe thank you 😅 my brain is burned out from work training, I promise I usually know how to spell! I just went the British route this time 😏
@@dddmemaybe
"manœuvrer" (French)
->
manoeuvre (UK)
maneuver (USA)
Growing up I didn’t know how to express my inner needs were not meant. I felt ashamed for having ‘extra’ needs from my parents. I was clothed, feed, and sheltered. We were lower class with little money. Love was something wealthy families could afford I thought. I was little adult taking care of my own needs and grew up to be a child because I was a child raising myself. I wasn’t a adult I had no skills to teach myself. I had only the ability to hide my parents downfall as not good enough parents to other adults.
I think a very large part of the grief in healing from parental narc abuse, codependency and people pleasing is the realization of the extraordinary amount of time, effort, energy, talent and sacrifice was so misdirected & wasted. I was conditioned to believe my life was to serve. And I did, exceptionally well.
But instead of getting to take pride in a job well done, achievement or praise or accolades or rewards for all of that time, effort, creativity and sacrafice, to find that it was really misdirected, maladaptive and literally a waste of much of my life makes the enormous grief at the realization that much more painful.
Hello from France, i think i understand what you mean, grieving the waiste of energy, understanding for everyone elle but yourself time, not finding your purpose or simply what really gives you pressure in life.
Took me years to find out , with RUclips channels like this i finally got it and went no contact last year with my parents. Rest of my family automatically cut me off, except for my brothers, cause my family looks kind of normal but was so hard and abusive for me growing up . I feel finally liberated and free to get to know the real me , best half is to come for me, because i decided to give all
That " compassion, understanding, patience kindness to myself, my kids and people who threat me well. So yes, a hell of à lot of love to look forward to!!. Wish you all the best everyone recovering this abuse, support we find here is great !!
@@tonygoncalves2928 yes, basically giving all of the best of me away and how it counted for absolutely nothing.
You make a very good point. I too, am now doing what you are doing, by turning all of the practice and experience of giving the best of myself to others, Im now turning it towards myself, my life and the loved ones who can love me back. And it's getting pretty amazing results 🙂
I know that going "no contact"was most likely the only real choice you had, and I'm sorry for your losses. So sad to have to pile more grief on top of the trauma you already suffered.
I hope the life you are making for yourself is a wonderful one ✨️
this is some rare source that constantly confirm that I was right about things . people can be very vulnerable growing up in a chaotic, criticizing, humiliating and hypocritical environment
Being direct is so hard for me...and changing plans when I need to is so hard. I even feel bad for calling the dentist to reschedule when something comes up. Logically I know they couldn't care less but for some reason I'm convinced there is disappointment.
I practically have a nervous breakdown in my head- especially when I know I’m dealing with someone who’s always right and makes me wrong…. Definitely always raising up all objections, proving that they can’t even try to do that , etc. I WISH I could just say what I feel and want but then I would be like a blunt autistic person…. And get the reverse effect.
My parents are still alive and the most common people that find what a I do wrong because they don’t understand ADD…
I can’t get out of navigating nowadays… it’s like trying to make sure no one gaslights you…
It’s like breathing- I don’t even think about what it is to not do it.
Mad that someone or something even did this to me.
And when I do this and STILL get shafted for it, I’ve finally suffered such rejection that I actually thought about hurting myself.
This resonates with me. I try to never cancel appts. 😅
@@visionvixxen I'm so sorry Chloe, I understand. I mostly do this with my parents, mostly my mom, as well. My parents divorced when I was 2 and they both loved me a lot which is great but as a child I always felt like I was choosing. My mom felt rejection and hard feelings toward my dad so I think naturally projected those onto me when I wanted to visit him/felt excited to be over there. It got really bad as a teenager when I had my own car cause I got to choose and it always felt wrong...thankfully my dad caught on to this problem early on and tried never to make me feel guilty. It's still hard to visit my hometown although things have improved a lot since I have my own family. I think my parents divorce is the main reason I am a people pleaser 😔
The first step is recognizing the problems, so at least we're doing that through this channel. I'm thankful people like Patrick care to help people like us.
I'm exactly the same. Even worse my hair dresser shames me when I have to reschedule due to having a miagrane like I am the most inconsiderate person ever.
@@wendygraham7787 I'm sorry your hair dresser made you feel that way. Migraines are the worst! Completely debilitating.
I tense up at just the phrase, "childhood trauma" - I spend so much time "understanding" my parents that I forget to acknowledge my childhood was nuts and traumatizing. I'm sticking with this video despite every part of me wanting to turn it off. Hence writing a comment to keep me listening.
Thank you Patrick, I do all this stuff and it makes me feel like a doormat and no one even ends up caring what I do anyway
Definitely can relate.
I’m not respected by my family.
This has happened to me Many times when I know I’m always getting scolded for not doing the dishes and I’ve done them several times a day and I have ADD and I’m late for some thing but I see dishes and want to make sure I don’t give my mom a reason to talk about how I never do the dishes over an again - so that one time I’ll stop and Rushingly do them
And even as I’m doing that them I’m trying to figure out and I’m asking her should I stop doing them because I’m doing them because I feel bad for her and I also want to make sure I don’t give anyone a chance to call me selfish or bad or if I should just finish it and deal with being late or in a rush and then at the same time my dad hears me and so in the end what turns out to be something I did in order to get people to like me or be right it ends up making them hate me and even my dad starts yelling at me and calling me bad names and grabbing the dishes out of my hand and saying I don’t clean them properly it’s very very weird it’s like they it just makes me sad and wonder like why I became their scapegoat and also makes me frustrated because there’s no winning because even when I wash the dishes two or three times a day my mom will still mention how I could wash the dishes and all I’m hearing is it’s not good enough even if I wash them for time she’ll still mention the fifth time. And I just want to get it right and I wanna make sure she doesn’t have to keep mentioning it it’s just really exhausting but if I don’t do it now I can’t even worse and then in my head I’m wondering am I my crazy, do my parents have Alzheimer’s are they gaslighting me like
Basically there’s so many interactions where I feel like there’s no winning for me or everything that was clear is not understood that I have to ask myself, “what just happened?” I still don’t know if they’re toxic or if I am toxic or what’s going on
It sounds like your parents may have a different standard or idea of what "doing the dishes" is like for some people it means doing every single dish in the sink. Orjust loading the dishwasher. I get treated this way too by people who refuse to communicate their specific ideas about things and it is a form of abuse autistic/ADHD people often are subjected to. It sounds like you may be feeling gaslit, and I don't think your parents seem to be being fair about their expectations. ADD is a legitimate disability, one that misunderstandings of have caused SO MUCH pain in my life,, and needs accommodations and different approaches. Just being yelled at about the same things over and over is not going to work and it is not how you deserve to be treated for struggling in your mind. I hope you find some support and peace.
Boundaries are important.
My sister gives tenfold in the form of gifts and doing for others. It hurts to see her under appreciated. But my counselor said she has secondary motives, to feel sorry for herself. I don’t want to target her for this form of self abuse, because it is unconscious. She doesn’t see where her behavior comes from. It came from our childhood and upbringing which she will never confront. Because we are both terrified of a negative light.
thank you. for reminding me that I am allowed to exist. I am allowed to be human. and that I do not exist to please or fix other people. I am so grateful for your content.⭐️
I’m a fixer. It came up in an assessment as having a “McGyver” quality. It’s great to be resourceful as long as you don’t allow people to exploit it. Thank you, Patrick! ☀️
Yup.
Relate
OP: This character was one of my nickname during childhood.
I was quite proud of it.
Guess what, i'm a technician today :D.
Yep… completely understand
You (we) are probably also part of a rare breed of super detectors as identified by Malcolm Gladwell, the author. He mentions adult children of alcoholics but that really also includes adult children of dysfunction
ruclips.net/video/OFILsii4Cwo/видео.html
this video about navigating people has given me the root of my problems…I am so afraid of being direct with people, that no one really knows who I am.
- I am so grateful for you and thank you so much for your clear sightedness.
This is too relatable! It can be really obvious that we feel "less than" the person we're talking to, which can make being professional really confusing. I recently got promoted to a manager role and navigating all those power dynamics is the hardest part. In meetings with my team, I feel like I'm coming off controlling or micro-managey because I'm trying so hard to avoid that impulse to cater to them. Meanwhile with my boss, I get so intimidated that I freeze up and come off as airheaded or unprepared, when I really did prepare. I'm so used to acting inferior to other people that I don't know what a normal level of respect looks like. I'm really grateful that I got this promotion because it gives me an opportunity to really work on this stuff. I just hate feeling like I might be letting people down, because I genuinely respect my team AND my manager and I wish I was better at showing it. But I have to believe that they wouldn't have chosen me for this role if they didn't think I would be capable as I am. Definitely lots to work on, but I'm trying to stay positive and do my best!
You are so brave to work on all that directly and all at once. I feel like i cannot be in a position of power for all these reasons. My fears of abusing the power triggers me bad as well as my fears of being exploited for my over accommodation response. And all these things just trigger each other in a vicious cycle. What you shared gives me hope and inspires me.
Jennifer, I think it's really cool that you were promoted to a manager! I think many people like us don't get promoted, because we are so used to NOT being in charge. I am starting a career and I find these issues a little challenging. Things like pricing my work correctly. But I am learning!
@@minnae.1747 dont be fearful to price your work well. You can always liwer your price... took me 10 years to understand this🤦🏽♀️
That's good advice! Thank you.
I read your words and identify with you so painfully. Hang in there, eventually you will get it.
This doctor is amazing! He made me realize that my "safe" parent expected perfection from me.. So perfection is love. Ugh. Wish I would have discovered this years ago. Hope I didn't damage my children too much.
Our overtures are always contingent on something the other person does or thinks-instead of being direct.
Some of us don’t have a clue what we want except not to get yelled at or hurt!
True!
Thank you for finding a simple and clear way of describing the root of all this. I really struggle with hearing myself.
Great video. Thank you!
My codependent mother would cook like 50 different dishes for sunday family meals and it was uncomfortable for everybody. I learned a lot of these behaviours and am now unlearning. Thank you.
Oof. Out of all of these (which I have done to some extent) that first example was me to a T. I kinda cringed a bit. Until you hear it coming back at you, it's really hard to gauge how others feel when you're giving them a zillion options. Looking at people like potential bombs, and trying to carefully defuse them is a great analogy. Thank you!
Once I finally started looking at my own needs and stopped people pleasing I was “abandoned” by friends who didn’t like my new honesty and barriers. I still haven’t healed from that.
It's refreshing to hear someone else in the real world describe what mostly feels like my own parallel universe that nobody knows about. And exercises are great! And above all, the cat at 25:36 had me squealing ^o^
YES! I came here to see if anyone else noticed the kitty lol
YES! I had this experience here too
I was definitely a "head 'em off at the pass" person for years, with a touch of "kill 'em with kindness". I was constantly afraid of punishment or retaliation with my parents, so I needed to have an explanation planned for every malfeasance or perceived failure. This was especially present in my relationship with my narcissistic ex, for whom I'd have to walk on eggshells to avoid setting off his bad moods. I felt like if I just did everything perfectly, he wouldn't be angry or upset or bored with me. I didn't realize that not only was I never going to be good enough for him, NO ONE could ever be good enough for him in the long term, because he wanted impossible things. He wanted to have his cake, eat it too, AND have his girlfriend not respond negatively about it.
You couldn't get a straight answer from people in my family. I still live a life of the unknown. I finally did a family cut off because these dysfunctional patterns don't change. It's time for me to heal.
That’s the hardest part… you feel crazy… gaslighting? They just don’t know? What is going on?
Both of my parents were emotionally damaged and their parenting style, especially towards me and my older brother ( the first two children) was extremely unpredictable and very physically abusive, but also very emotionally abusive.
I've really struggled with decisions, being direct, having personal boundaries and the like.
What I've come to recognize over the decades of life is the damage of such a childhood is compounded by judgmental people throughout life because rather than coming from a place of compassionate understanding that we who are badly abused did not choose or deserve the abuse and subsequent damage and don't live accordingly, intentionally, but rather out of ignorance and well established survival strategies. So until we find the help we need we are simply further abused by society.
I'm truly thankful for videos such as this both to help myself as well as to, hopefully, enlightened others, with the hope they will learn to be kind and compassionate towards those who have yet to heal from the damage of childhood abuse.
“…you see things that need to be done, …”
Nailed it!
I didn't realize that I navigate people and I actually do that a lot. This is indeed exhausting to me and a recipient as well, so I will try to be more direct, thank you!
So pre-video I said that I practiced #1 and #4. Post-video I realize I use all 4. Everything hit home. I loved what your mentor shared with you that you had nothing to work with, you did your best. Me, too. I'm starting to feel less like a complete failure and instead proud of myself for having navigated...and survived...a hellish childhood. Again, thank you for what you do.
Yes! I so agree with this that Patrick brings these positive feelings up for us to see!
I've always been codependent. I've realized that all my life, I have mostly just tended to the needs of others, asking sneaky questions when i want something for myself and overexplaining myself when no explanations would've been fine. And due to all of this, I don't know myself as much as I thought I did. I had always just conformed and adapted to the surrounding people and environment, that I could fit in with any crowd for the most part. Now, I am trying to finally understand and listen to myself and meeting their unmet needs. To find my inner courage
I did those all the time. I didn't know why and blame myself for being weird. Thank you for conceptualizing them. That makes a lot of sense.
This is so eye opening...that it's a type of controlling. Also, I wanted to thank you for the creative shorts that explain something in a visual or auditory style (like the airplane propellor or the drumming/guitar/horn examples).
It felt like you were impersonating my mother for the first minute lol. Thank you for validating how it feels to be on the receiving end of that!! I get why she does it, but it really doesn't feel good to be treated like a bomb.
Me too!! All the time with my mom and I get so annoyed...but I also probably do it to some extent because I'm definitely a people pleaser. Actually what I do most is just ask the other person to choose cause I don't want complaints. And I've realized how depressed I can become when I don't do anything I want lol. And then I become secluded and avoid people...ugh
I was thinking of my mom too
I feel it's also a common experience with my friends with anxiety. They're essentially spewing their anxiety filled stream of consciousness at you. I find it completely overwhelming as a receiver.
This has me wondering about how I strongly leaning towards being very direct and wanting very clear explanations and descriptions.
Types of codependent navigating
#1 kill them with kindness 6:33
#2 heading them off with a pass 10:42
#3 check it out x 5 (not trusting) 15:41
#4 sneaky questions 20:16
Got into a conversation with a family member who was judging my actions, accusing me of something. I apologized and apologized, I'll do this for you, I'll do that. Afterward I thought about what they said and it was totally off base. I felt so pathetic when I realized how much I lowered myself to someone who didn't deserve it. It was a very, very good lesson.
Please consider doing a video on how to find out what we want and need, after we pull back all of these strategies.
And thanks again for all of the specific suggestions /tips on this vIdeo!!!
You nailed this one Patrick! Yes, exhaustive, (and almost comical) especially when it's two co-dependents trying to manage each other's co-dependency.
Definitely "killing w/kindness for me". I can remember being shamed by my "moody, narcissist father". Also, the church I was in. Always helping people I hardly knew. I'm aware I do that. But thanks for explaining....and reminding me. Great vid
"No response " experiment...
10 years in CODA meetings, and I haven't heard of this until now.
That sense of belonging (lack of) has been driving some care taking reactions. What an eye opener assignment. Thanks for the channel and for sharing this talent you have.
My mom lived by the "kill them with kindness" mantra and taught my sisters and I to live by it. (My mom had a very abusive, terrible childhood.) I never realized how unhealthy it was until I started watching Patrick's videos, and how much she really raised us to be codependent. It feels so freeing to unlearn these "traits" and healing toward finding my authentic self ♥️ Thank you for these videos!
Many women have been raised like this. This leads to being passive aggressive.
My mom too
I had a volunteer manager like that. She was completely passive and said "kill them with kindness". She remarried shortly after I started working for her and everyone but her could see her husband was using her for money. The marriage lasted two years.
When I complained about very rude professional people calling on the phone on reception she would just say that they had mental health problems. If anyone called me on the phone and straight away said "Where are you?" I would answer with "Who are you first?" It caught them off guard.
Or they would demand I come to the lobby to take boxes of leaflets or books in the lift for them as they had parked on double yellow lines. I would claim I couldn't leave the office so they had to bring it all up in the lift to the office. Then I would sit back and hoped they would get a parking ticket.
This video made me feel so shocked. I literally heard you speak as I usually speak to people in that first section. Thank you so much for this content and the way you basically act out different scenarios so we can really understand what you mean. Very helpful.
“Relational effectiveness” is a great term! It connects a lot of dots for me.
That kitty paw under the door is adorable. I'm just beginning to understand my childhood. Until recently, I thought these behaviors were an improvement over "I'll get mad before you have a chance to get mad" or "my rage will out do yours" Usually I'll think of all the ways someone might get mad and try to over explain how I already fixed it or how we avoid it. I'm glad I found this channel.
Yes to the kitty paw comment! I wanted to open that door so badly!
The observations Patrick made resonated more with me than I thought they would. Maybe I’ve blocked some significant memories because I do several of the behaviors he describes.
I didn't think I would relate to the second point, until I realized that without being asked, I made a whole presentation about what I've been doing lately, just in case. Even though I am present at my desk constantly focused on relevant projects, the lack of deliverables makes me feel insecure; they might think I'm not doing anything. As if not having something perfectly tangible every other day is the end of the world and won't be accepted. I have this innate feeling that no one trusts me, especially my boss. Even though I have never been given evidence of it, I fear that some imagined, looming obsolescence will strike me suddenly and critically. Through my actions I'm trying to scream, "I'm not useless, I can help, please don't give up on me." I don't know how else to be, and it's exhausting. Why can't I just believe that people like me?
You just described why I hate going to work.
I’m going through the same thing at these days. I hope things could get better to you.
Yep had to leave my work because of that. I decided that having deliverables is important for me.
Wow, interesting. I've done a version of this for a long time that is more like "it doesn't matter, your choice" or "I have no preference"... And I would genuinely not have one. This would frustrate my husband. Of course his frustration mystified me. As I've gotten older, I personally celebrate having actual preferences that I voice and stick to. I intuitively knew it was growing up, not selfishness.
Quite the revelation!
I appreciate these videos so much. They are so healing- they hold up a mirror to many of my issues.
The role play at the beginning sounds so much like me 🙈
I'm not only terrified of saying the wrong thing, but it honestly feels impossible most of the time 😔
I learned at a very young age that it's not safe to ask questions or speak up. I'm the youngest of 5 so I learned a lot by watching my mom's wrath being taken out on my older siblings. I learned how to avoid setting off the ticking time bomb... so she made me her "golden child" for a long time. But once I started speaking up and choosing my own path in life, her wrath finally turned on me. We haven't spoken in years.
I was pretty neglected as a child and literally raised myself.But due to extensive reading and knowledge seeking about all the psychological issues I could develop because of that childhood neglect I ended up being cold and guarded all my life and selectively kind to people who are kind to me.My childhood neglect did not soften me up ,it toughen me up.I say all that comes to my mind without any guilt
I can feel that especially the Self education phase and for me personally its also that my mom don’t accept my views now that i have my own and always tells me „thats not how i rased you“ while i think „damn thats true you didnt rase like that i had to“
This was so incredibly helpful. Thank you so much. I often feel like I’ve fallen between the cracks because I didn’t experience typical childhood trauma, but more of a low grade dysfunction. I truly feel my parents did the best they knew how, but there was a disconnect that led me to people pleasing and navigating explained here. While I feel at peace with my folks and where they came from, I’m starting to understand why I perceive and do the things I do now, at 50. So helpful! You’re awesome!
Thank you for the observation that these behaviors are logical and adaptive in response to abuse, not simply maladaptive. Sometimes I feel like trauma-generated behaviors are just one more thing I do wrong and need to fix about myself.
Thank you for giving examples of normal behaviors also. When you explain the codependent behaviors I see what you’re saying then I started thinking “how else am I suppose to behave. What am I supposed to do?”
Thank you so much. I feel so understood with your videos. I just got diagnosed with CPTSD due to childhood trauma and all of this information makes me understand so much better as to why I do some of the things I do. It feels even better knowing you come from a similar background. So you undoubtedly understand! Thank you!
I never knew how much I needed therapeutic advice and awareness like this. Thank you so much for sharing your work like this 🙏🏻
When you said "I'm so proud of you", it hit me. I started crying. Thank you so much for all of this.
Point taken - I don’t want to be indirect. Think my fear of others anger and abandonment fuels my hesitation. But if in reality I am not measuring up or acceptable to them, it’s torture to keep trying because they just keep moving the goal line. Better to remain myself and deal with reality not my wishful thinking regarding a relationship with another.
May you be deeply and abundantly blessed. Thank you. 💜
This really resonated. Found myself cringing at myself a few times. Regarding the indirect questions, in my family there are a couple of people who do it as a form of manipulation - you will feel you are being slimed becase info is being elicited from you but you don't know why at the time.
I also cringed quite a lot, and also felt a gut punch when the sneaky questions portion came up. The last few months I have been feeling that it seems like manipulative behavior, but didn't know how to articulate it... this video helped immensely.
Love your videos Patrick. Whenever I have something going on with my family, I turn to your channel ❤ thank you
I never knew how so many parts of my personality formed out of childhood trauma until watching your videos. Thank you for everything you do for people like us. Your videos are helping me heal and better my behaviors.
I needed to hear this today.I would really like to teach my inner child that trying to anticipate everyones needs and reactions isn't required for safety anymore, it takes up so much energy! I'm thankful for the help surviving my childhood and trying hard to reparent myself. It's hard. Thanks for this video, it helps me be reflective and gives me new perspectives on myself and my parents.
Thank you so much Patrick!!! Don't know if I am the only one that requested this video, but it's so so helpful! Giving vocabulary and context to understand my codependent strategies. This is straight up me. ❤️
I’m screaming at this opening role play because it’s TOO REAL
My goodness you've given me so much to think about. It's so eye opening. I feel so much better
The kitty under the door on the left during the Final Thoughts portion lol. Another great vid Patrick : )
Man. I'm so glad I found you through shorts. Your calm demeanor and gentle encouragement is very, very healing to my inner child. I think I've already been doing a lot of work internally to be at the point I am now where I *am* standing up for myself more and I *am* allowing myself to take up space. But I'm also so happy for this channel because you not only put names and words to these things we feel but also talk about it without judgement. I can learn and grow and not be afraid; the fact that I'm changing doesn't mean I wasn't good enough, changing is the *point.* I want to be happy. I want to be an interesting person! And I'm gonna do it!!!
Wow. Breaks my heart that I do this. Even after so many years of therapy. I am not sure why I didn't realize this. I really do value others more than myself. Now I know.
I love how specific and non-vague these videos are, it's the kind of wisdom and knowledge you can't learn in books. Some really great content on this channel.
Nice video. This really shows the ways that codependency lingers even if we've moved on in our lives in other ways.
Thanks for your continued work, Patrick!
Thank you so much for your videos!! You have already helped me so much and i had many A-ha moments. I grew up with a narcissistic, passive-aggressive, deeply bitter mother and a father in the autism spectrum who was kind but in his own world and unavailable
The helping the boss and everybody else at work while running yourself into the ground resonates with me. I did run myself into the ground at the time. Practising good enough behaviour is exactly on point for me.
Noooooooo! That's really me. I am highly anxious about other being upset with me secretly and this is exactly how I sound.
Been working on that and slowly healing this pattern.
I appreciate this so much❤
@25:40 - Cat's paw under the door, " Dad, how much more direct can I be. I need me some treatos."
thank you so much for your videos… For me, you have the best videos of all the narcissism videos I have ever watched…. I have many aha moments from your specific examples that you give. Most of the narc experts, don’t get into specific examples and are too general.
Lol! I do this and my mom does this. My husband calls me out on it which is very helpful. He says stop trying to fix a problem that hasn't even happened yet. It helps me look at the situation and try to see what's causing this worry that I'm going to mess up and "get in trouble".
I loved this whole video AND during the final thoughts I thought I was seeing things but the cat trying to get in the door was hilarious and just what I needed today!
My mom does all of these. Sometimes to get a straight answer from her, I have to do the sneaky questions. It's like I have to have to speak her language lol. It's kind of funny but mostly sad. It's exhausting.
I don't want to have to sus out the information, one little piece at a time. I don't want to have to put so much energy into practically manipulating her into accidentally giving away her true answer, when it could have been a simple yes or no, and we move on with our lives. But if I don't play that game, it seems liked I'll never get that clarity and sometimes it is very much needed.
Very sad and exhausting… it’s like relating to them has made you feel like you’re wringing your neck or putting your head on a guillotine. It’s very hard to know how to be,
Love how you say, "proud of you for finding a way to survive that", a very encouraging way of overcoming!
I love how you’re always a bit funny while also helping us heal - laughter is the best medicine😂