In an Abusive Family, it is a dream that won't come true. Let go the little child hope & care for yourself. Don't keep trying to get delicious healthy apples from the toxic dry cleaners. Failing is continually repeating what does not work & expecting a different outcome.
That one statement was worth 43 minutes of my time. Patrick is an emotional Jedi! I am but a Padawan on this journey and could only make the slowest progress without the leaders in this community like Patrick.
" Get over it!" is what a Toxic Cousin Windy( who is a 2 year old amoK , marriage wrecking 50 year old Witch) always says! Windy says " carol does not love me, boo hoo, ignores me Too!
This one is triggering for me. My abusive parent often said 'stop playing the victim' as a way to invalidate my emotional experience about being abused. I WAS a victim: I was a CHILD. It happened.
My parents always said that i burn my bridges . If you dont like it move out, i am messy because i told the truth. And i always thought that was true... I am just now seeing that is not true. I am 38.
Whenever a person talks about legitimate social injustice, there are some people who push back and accuse that person of “playing the victim.” False narratives around capitalism, meritocracy, equal opportunity and rational choice each facilitate this abuse/trauma denial on a grand scale.
spot on!! really feel like "the american dream" is the amalgamation of all of that, as well as the recent rampage of scams, schemes and rug-pulls that play on people's familiar exposures and susceptibilities to these dynamics :(
That's so true. How can we expect victims to be the bigger person or be "ultra rational" when often, the abuse itself wasn't rational at all! It comes from a place of either pain, spite, lust or greed, or just taking advantage of children's position of dependence period. You're not a rational being when it happens to you, as a CHILD, duh...and the perpetrator certainly wasn't rational either. They hide behind "logic"and "rationalism" to cover up their own impulsive bad acts.
it’s like people are angry they’re being asked to hear someone’s pain. they repress their feelings and demand you do also. if they were really so healthy wouldn’t they be providing support rather than essentially saying shut up and out on a fake persona?
That's the thing I think. The emotional neglect that causes one child in the family to have a victim mindset can cause another child to have an anti-victim mindset. This means they refuse to allow their feeling of being a victim and repress them. Then they become highly critical of themself if these feelings arise in themselves or others. They are hyper responsible and blame themselves for everything rather than blaming others. Both poles are unhealthy but together form a balance within the family.
@@juliedacosta8841Might be true for some, but the "anti-victim" people I know play up how hard a struggle their own life was and have double standards. Their own advice suddenly doesn't apply in their own situations.
As an SA survivor, I've learned that "believing survivors" really needs to mean so much more than believing that survivors aren't lying. Believing survivors needs to mean that we believe that traumatic events happened *and* we need to believe that there is real, ongoing trauma that stems from those events. In other words, not just about believing that something happened in the past, but about believing survivors about their experiences and struggles in the present. Thanks so much for this video. It's definitely one of your most helpful videos for my journey. I'm really looking forward to your upcoming insights on religious abuse.
But the thing is there are also people who misuse the "believe survivors" thing by just outright lying. There should be safeguards in place in both instances. I'm not trying to be contradictory, I'm on board with you that yes survivors should be believed but I've also seen the other side where someone can outright lie about being a survivor of some kind of abuse and ruin the supposed "abusers" life even though nothing happened. Sigh what a world.
@@idontknowyetwhoiam I think it's meant more in 1:1 situations, if someone is telling their story treat it as real to their face. I had a situation where a female friend said her ex is abusive turned out he threw her out because she cheated. I don't regret helping her out, but I also didn't go around telling everyone her story, ruining his reputation. And in serious cases courts, police won't convict anyone without evidence, that's what they'll tell you before you even file a police report - don't bother if you don't have witnesses or physical evidence. There's not that many criminal masterminds faking evidence "Gone Girl" style, but it is police's job to prove it is fake. And of course there's consequences if evidence is proven to be false. I mean, I don't know where you're from, but I have friends who disclosed their childhood and adulthood stories, but I personally don't know anyone who has been accused of stuff out of court and got their life ruined. Knowing to ruin the life it has to be a public event I feel like we would see that in our personal circles more often if that was a common thing.
Also if it happened in the past doesn't mean it's not something horrible, even if it didn't have repercussions in the present that's still something horrific that happened to us, that someone did to us, nobody should experience those things.
Thank you for mentioning that our inner child always wants to “test” if the family system will be there for us. I always kick myself after “testing” and being disappointed again. But it’s a good reminder that it’s the inner child in me that still wants that from my family, even though my adult self knows it’s probably not possible.
I do this all the time, tho it's not family, it's new or old friends who I apparently didn't get the message from the first time, they can't handle any expression of negative emotions. At all. They are highly averse. And pretty hurtful in spite of how positive they think they are
There is a book by Patricia Evans called "Controlling People" that explains how in childhood when a parent tells the child after they fall "You're just trying to make a scene and get attention" it disconnects the child from themselves and makes the child not trust their own inner guidance. Of course, if you fell you want love and support, but was mirrored back was "You're making a scene and want attention." My biological father did everything in that book and then some. Patricia Evans also wrote "The verbally abusive relationship." I would say as a lay person who has experienced psychotically intense childhood trauma that people don't seem to understand the value of a human being which seems to cause them to minimize abuse and trauma and downplay it. It's a gazillion times worse than those people acknowledge. They are in denial.
Why on earth do we not look at such parents and pointedly ask them "so you think you can be a parent and only give your children attention when YOU feel like it?"
I once had sliced of a thin piece of skin on my knee and felt faint after. The skin just freaked me out, my Mam gave out to me for lying down in case I fainted. She was so angry! Said I was being dramatic.
Toxic positivity is most definitely a thing, the one who was abused isn't CHOOSING to be caught up in it, their healing process has been a vast majority of the time actively sabotaged and they need help figuring out how to heal, all those people invalidating just adds insult to injury, they are ALREADY feeling invalidated because they were taught to do it to THEMSELVES.
I recently had to tell someone that even though I'm seeking help with childhood trauma I don't want people to think I'm trying to look like a victim. I don't want them feeling sorry for me. I just want them to understand that this whole thing is needed for me to get better. I'm so tired of feeling shame. It's tough to explain to them or anyone what's going on.
@@sloanecore yes except he was fully aware of this person's gender but opted instead for the ultra-hip PC non-binary reference to score those sweet virtue points.
Very triggered by those troll comments and half-safe bullshitters !! This world is indeed very narcissistic and hard to navigate for childhood trauma survivors, but I get so encouraged in living my truth and continue the healing process thanks to your teachings and the bigger community that gets it right; thank you so much !!
I was shocked at the troll comments on the Instagram post. I wish people would watch the video before commenting so they understood what the topic was about.
I think of it as “the shitty golden rule”, these people project the shittiness they feel about themselves on to others, hate others as you hate yourself
You should be triggered because this is a fucked up video that should have never been posted. Used to be a fan of this channel, but fuck this pretend therapist.
The people that say “suck it up buttercup” are the same people that go on to dump their trauma onto their own children 🙄 They may seem “fine” and “doing better than you do” for now but that’s a thin illusion. They are diving head first into a world of nonsense. You’re doing amazing whoever you are 🤍🕊
100% these are my parents fr. Even now she says to just ignore things and is not even willing to acknowledge how her mindset can be different to her as a person
My husbands first therapist told him he wasnt special and that lots of kids get abused. So glad he was even willing to give therapy another shot after that. Because his abuse was insane, and she is insane for trying to normalize it.
I feel like that person’s degree was fake. I’m so sorry your husband dealt with that from someone who probably seemed like an authority figure who could help him at the time. Point blank: some therapists are bad at their jobs.
It takes a long time for some of us to realize and admit the truth of what happened to us. During that time we are definitely not playing the victim. In fact, many of us believe that something was wrong with us, not our parents or siblings. We don't start the journey to healing until we realize we were not totally the perpetrator and that something in our family was very wrong. In other words, we begin to realize something happened to us which we as kids had no control over. We have to come to realize and accept that we were victims. Once we admit this we are ready to undo our victimhood, to stop being victims. It is absolutely necessary for us to say we were victims and yet society points at us and makes us believe we are so wrong for telling the truth.
I saw something on social media a couple of weeks ago where the person was talking about one of their psych classes and someone in class said something about well what if the client is just trying to get attention? The professor looked straight at them and said "what's wrong with someone wanting attention?" The student legit said they had no answer for that. That post really stuck with me. Especially for childhood and family trauma that is a really valid question. What is wrong with wanting or needing attention and validation because that's exactly what they didn't get. At least not the kind of attention that makes them feel safe and comforted and happy. But also most parents just want kids to be compliant so they don't have to deal too much with them. I get a lot of those parents are also dealing with trauma themselves, but it's also the culture of toxic positivity that absolutely comes from the spiritual community who also just want compliance from the general population.
This is something with which I’ve struggled. If someone - especially your own child - is seeking your attention, why is that bad? If you can help them feel safe, you can help them learn different ways to ask for attention if the behavior associated with seeking attention is destructive or harmful to themselves or others.
Yes, I feel this all the way in my body! It's like some people figure out what you need, just to make sure you don't get it. Then when you respond or react about the reality that your (reasonable) needs are ignored and as a person the situation is invalidating, they call you crazy. Even if you unemotionally just state it like that. I've been calling it "the impossible position" lately. I'm done with impossible positions. I'm infuriating to the toxic people around me right now...
THIS THIS THIS! I tried explaining that to my spawn point even as a CHILD: OF COURSE kids want "attention" they need to be parented. We are social creatures, EVERYONE wants attention, and you certainly need attention when you're in distress! But they CRIMINALIZE normal human reactions to their abuse to justify the continued abuse!
I'll answer that one! The reason it's a problem to other people is one of two things I have learned and observed. 1. That person learned how to surpress their needs because they were shamed for wanting attention and now they are doing it to others (If I can't have it why should you?) or 2. They want to redirect everyone's attention to themselves and someone else needing it is competition because the believe there is a finite amount and it should all go to them.
My father sexually abused us 3 kids. Mother a narcissist. When she found out, I was 20, she was raging & never spoke to me the same for years. She never even asked questions. Made me the scapegoat- so that family didn’t believe me. Therapist said, ‘You’re playing the victim’. Husband said, ‘Get over it’ Luckily another therapist said that is her history. It’s like when I was 7, there was a switch and I wasn’t the same anymore. I developed acute OCD as a child & Anorexia at 17yrs old. I feel better now, but I still have elements of OCD and I will never forget what happened to me. So, I feel your right it’s too threatening for others to contend with. Now I try to listen to someone else’s trauma or burden with empathy. I’ve always wanted information like this. Thank you for the your expertise 🇦🇺🙏🇺🇸
Whenever I try to talk out my childhood trauma and abuse feelings with my mom from my father (her ex husband) it gets difficult because she just wants me to let it go. I told her you’ve been through his abuse as well. I know you didn’t let it go. I’ve told her look at our bad habits to cope in life when it gets hard. We do the same thing. We medicate. All she can say is she’s moved on etc. I have to tell her I’m not mad at you. I hate him. Even today he blames me for it by ignoring me. We’ve haven’t talked in over 15+ years. My older sister is the same way as him. Same ugliness, center of attention and has to control the agenda. We are not close. Anyone that has the same traits as my father I either have a problem with or I just don’t bother with.
@@susanherbert4151 That is so true. Also emotional abuse usually gets ignored, and that can be so damaging. I think not putting the blame where it belongs makes the guilt and shame fall back on the child. This is true for me.
It is very hard. I agree. Particularly if it looks like you’re expressing that your MOTHER had flaws. Mothers get excused for everything because we have unrealistic expectations of mothers that they often cannot meet. We can’t acknowledge that there are a lot of shitty mothers out there because then we may have to examine the imbalance of our social structures and our expectations of motherhood. The (invisible) burdens that women shoulder in child rearing is disproportionate to what men experience. And let’s face it, if we tell women the truth about Motherhood, women might choose the autonomy of not having children. Instagram would probably collapse if every women on there didn’t list their first credential as “Proud Mother”, (men, not you. You just list your ‘real’ accomplishments) Because Motherhood is wonderful! Have babies! Who will take care of you in old age? Don thank get FOMO! But in reality, on the whole women suffer a lot of abuse in our societies. Why the hell are they entrusted to care for the most vulnerable (without being pressured into it, or getting therapy)? Many of our ill-equipped mothers may have opted out, had we corrected the bs narrative that ‘when you see that baby you will fall in love!” Money, marriage, or Motherhood is not going to change you if you’re damaged and not doing the work. Do not encourage everyone to have children.. it’s reckless and irresponsible.
Patrick uses the phrase “holding parents accountable” which is imo a constructive way of understanding your past story while healing and moving forward
Thanks! I am completely misunderstood, miserable. I have just been diagnosed with schizophrenia along with CPTSD, PTSD I’m 52. Literally my condition has been untreated until current time.I survived severe physical, emotional, neglect, abuse, as a child from my family of origin it is continual. Every single waking moment is a struggle. The only time I am happy is when I’m dreaming. I can’t hold a job. I have no friends. The one existing relationship I have is being held together by a single thread. HELP
💯💯 can relate. realized at 32 during extreme burn out exactly how toxic my family is. getting sober showed me I deserve more, but I literally cannot function and at stuck living with toxic family without a clue how to get out of the situation. I don’t have a single person in my life, my dog is literally keeping me afloat by the minute.
Thanks everybody, it really helps to know I’m not the only person to be so misunderstood and miserable. I appreciate all of your support. How kind. Thank you again for the gentle and genuine healing support.
Those comments really unsettled me because it’s like each time I’ve opened up to someone, anything they’ve had to say has fallen along those lines so I’ve just given up
Trauma plays a huge role in the development of really nasty permanent physiological and psychiatric health conditions, and the people who shame people for struggling to overcome it can be truly as disgusting as the parents who gas light their kids.
I was told I'm playing the victim by a so called trauma therapist. She assumed this about me because I function in a "career" (which I hate but pais well). She also shamed me for even seeking help. Apparently one has to be poor to qualify as a trauma survivor in her mind. She was extremely disrespectful and condescending. In retrospect I should have just stood up and left. "Therapists" like her can cause so much damage. I had already watched a few of your videos so it threw me back but I got over it.
I would report her to the appropriate people. NOW ! YOU had the skills to walk away from her gas lighting abuse, someone else might take their life. She has no right to shame ANYONE that asks for help ! WTF is she a therapist for ?! What a horrible person she is.
@@m.maclellan7147 That was my impulse as well. However it is not easy to do that here in Germany and apparently nothing really comes of it. I would have otherwise.
Yeah, that's horrible... I've seen recently so called "professional" similar to that too. Luckily for me it wasn't during a session, only during a discussion about PTSD in general and someone, who claimed to be "experienced professional", jumped into conversation and ridiculed everyone. That person said that PTSD is "extremely rare" (bullshit) and "happens only if someone is directly threatened to be killed, like in having a gun being pointed to their head", so "we shouldn't worry about having or getting it". I was so angry, that was such extremely stupid and insensitive thing to say. Description of PTSD does include experiencing of a life threat, but it doesn't have to be so literally. It's like they have read a textbook and memorised the contents, but haven't understood what all that actually means. And it wasn't first time "professional" or "psychology major student" took things way too literally, it has happened before, just the subject of discussion was less infuriating and more laughable. Issues with professional education, I guess. :(
The hurtful "don't be a victim" statement that people tell trauma survivors/mentally ill can be a problem. It is a part of toxic positivity and the myth that happiness is just a choice or mindset change. I recently opened up about trauma only to have someone tell me "it's a victim mindset" if I'm not completely, magically healed right away. It's okay to recognize you were victimized. It's okay to not be okay sometimes. And I won't let anyone explain my own experience to me.
@@supernova2875 my counsellor is a big proponent of Gabor Mate’s work - I haven’t read any of his books yet, but I’m starting to see why she likes him. That quote makes a lot of sense.
It always baffled me when people say "Don't be a victim" or "They have such a victim mentality". Yes, of course they do, they were victimised and they need to process it without morons making them feel shameful for having perfectly normal feelings and responses to what they experienced. Would these people also say "Stop feeling pain " if you broke your arm? It's beyond logic to me.
I have a feeling everyone who had a childhood is a trauma survivor with an inner child that still has an impact on their present life. It's not an us vs them dichotomy. It's a we're in the trauma jungle scenario.
This is such a good reminder! As survivors we're programmed to question ourselves instead of the person attacking us. Our "bullshit tolerator" is set way too high and it's hard to tell when someone has poorly conveyed good intentions, or is just plain mean. We often don't realize how messed up things are until later. If something just feels off to you, listen to yourself. Later in your healing, you'll see what was going on and be glad you did.
Yup, that bs toleration is a real problem too on the workfloor. People are shocked when I tell them my work stories. Good thing I'm no longer at that place
I love when he acts out the reaction of Jay, “wow, you’re right I should just let my sexual abuse go, I’ve been marinating in this stuff way too long.😂” I want to do that when people are invalidating and tell you to toughen up
im a sentient being that try not hurt unnessesarily other sentient being and not be hurt unnesesarily. the rest is optional and unimportant. respect my life while i eat baby lamb sauce
What’s wrong with the word “victim”? Why do so many people have an aversion to it? We need to reclaim it, because it’s the truth and there’s no shame in it.
THANK YOU I’ve heard so many psychologists and therapists take this weird bootstraps stance. I remember the holistic psychologist made a video titled “how to deal with toxic situations” and their advice was literally “own what you did to cause it.” Just the weirdest victim blamey rhetoric, I was so taken aback. I’ve heard other professionals say things like “wanting our abusers to seek help is actually a selfish form of control that we have to release” Like no, wanting someone to get help and stop abusing you isn’t selfish?? It’s sad how refreshing and uncommon it is to finally hear a sensible take that isn’t a new age spin on blaming or shaming the victim trying to navigate abuse.
There are so many cults that claim we create our own realities, that place 100% of the burden of everything, from disease to social situations on you. Yes, our perception and response matter and can influence our mental health and actions, but we are in constant dialogue with other people personally and globally
I found out that the original phrase was "pull yourself up by your bootstraps and see if you float." It was supposed to be a criticism of people who told others to pull themselves together, rub some dirt on it, and move on. And then the people who it was supposed to shame co-opted it. 🤦♀️
While it's inappropriate for people to blame people who survived trauma from their family, we do need to consider “what will happen if they never get help?” It's entirely possible that they won't, especially if the family member has narcissistic personality disorder. I identify with a lot of the description of J Doe, and the family sounds very familiar. Since there are plenty of family members who don't “believe in therapy,” it may overall not be worth the energy of trying to get them to change. Personally, I know I can want my family to change all I'd like, but it doesn't mean that it will actually change anything. I see it as accepting that some people suck and try to keep moving forward for my peace. It's hard to balance not ruminating about our situation and feeling what we are going to feel in that moment. I'm not sure if some of this has to do with the prefrontal cortex not developing until about age 25 or not, so it can be easier to get lost in our feelings when the individual is under that age. This can be especially true if the person is not neurotypical. It's more complicated than most people make it seem. I doubt that most of the Boomer generation are informed of what we know now. Perhaps their reactions are because they found that if they did talk about these things, most people would stop talking to them, so they either “pushed it down” or took their own lives when they couldn't cope.
@@mhall383yeah it's not healthy to get hung up on/have your healing depend on someone else getting therapy (codependency?) yet I wouldn't call someone selfish for wanting their abuser to get help or just stop in general. That's just reasonable and healthy
@@mhall383 I agree people have numerous reasons and influencing factors behind anything they do. but I dislike responding to abusers with a “well, lets look at both sides” standpoint. if someone is consistently doing harm to me, I’m generally not more invested in their mental health and emotional history than my own, you know? its not irrelevant! but I would be so annoyed if my abuser starts going into their traumas of the past when theyre literally traumatizing me in the present with no remorse or self awareness. I think its entirely reasonable for people to not want to be abused and to either ask for the abuser to change or to leave. neither is always realistic in every situation of course. but if an abuser refuses to change, I personally feel like the highest priority is finding a safe environment away from that person, not to do their inner child work for them. (tbh even if they do try to change it doesnt always mean its safe to stay) not everyone can do that, and I strongly agree its important to consider what to do if an abuser doesnt seek help or you cant leave. that honestly doesnt get talked about enough! so much of what ive seen w traumawork positions the trauma and abuse in the past tense. sometimes you have to develop survival strategies to cope with living in a pervasively traumatic environment, like attempting to appease/heal/therapize/serve your abuser. it’s especially difficult for people that still have to fill those roles as adults, who’ve had to fill those roles all their lives. people w disabilities for example are often more isolated and may have extra barriers like not being able to live alone or having medical conditions/equipment that cant be transported easily. I wouldnt blame anyone for doing what they have to do to survive abuse when they have no recourse. but I dont know if id say its advisable. my point was really just that ive witnessed professionals shaming victims and holding them responsible for their own abuse and desires to not abused. I wasnt saying that the only option is to attempt to get family members to go to therapy though. every situation is unique and has to be handled carefully imo.
Been thinking a lot about this. Calling "victimization" our own acknowledgement of our traumas - and the pain, grief and sorrow that comes with it - is the worst thing for people getting in contact with their own past. Let one cry as much as I want. Let one relive their past as much as they can handle. It might actually be their first time.
One of the worst things I was told was "no wonder you don't have any friends" and for the life of me I can't figure out how to make that one stop making me cry. It is true that I can't hold down a friendship. That makes it hurt so much more. I don't know how to make this stop making me suffer. But if I tell people my feelings they will instantly think I'm trauma dumping or telling a "sob story"
I'm so sorry for your hurts. 💙Those statements about you were mean spirited and not true. You are a good person who endured some insensitive uncaring behavior from caregivers who didn't behave in a caring way. 🫂. Hugs to you. I hope you can fill your life with substitute surrogate family members who can show love and kindness and actually see your light and encourage you.
@@bookbeing I have a good husband. We both have some 👜. It's more apparent with a child. I was told something recently by someone who would know about these things. I was told something important about how husband's sometimes work against their wives with very dependent new children. I do not feel as bad now because I know what it is. It's a story as old as the nuclear family itself
Friends of any value are hard to come by for everyone these days. Man’s rejection is God’s protection. Whatever your beliefs, it would help to write down what you would value in a friend and why, and then you can look for those traits as you meet new people, or you can even give those gifts to yourself.
I've been thinking about this recently that much of the self help stuff online is shaming. One that comes to mind is calling codependency selfish. To me that implies that it's a conscious decision rather than a subconscious survival mechanism. Is it good for you now, no. Can it negatively impact your sense of self and relationships, yes. But often it isn't a conscious process. It's your limbic system hijacking your life because it feels threatened. Real or perceived threat. It makes sense to struggle with codependency when it has literally helped you survive and feel safe. It might get in the way now of authentic connection but it's not actively selfish.
I thought people were supposed to behave codependently. I thought thats what you do when you care for someone. Its only recently Ive come to begin to know what healthy relationships look like.
@@Shortstacksandticktacks same. It's conditioning right. So many times I've seen people who self sacrifice be praised as heroes, kind, good etc and that can reinforce the narrative of codependency. This good person conditioning. If I sacrifice my own ideas, wellbeing I'll receive love, attention and be told I'm good. But deciding you are good on your own terms means others opinions affect you less. Separate what you think about someone from how they make you feel. I might think someone is cool but how do they make me feel. Maybe they make me feel dismissed, like my opinions aren't important. Sending love and healing ✌️🧡
Omg yes! And calling codependency and narcissism two sides of the same coin. Like just…stop . Also , I should probably gray rock, but I’m gonna need suggestions for a few epic clap backs to the “younger generation” attacks.
@@anwensu4381 feel you on that. I hate the way the millennials and gen z are spoken about. The sort of people who say negative things about a whole generation or 2 are just very small minded and you can't argue with stupid 😂
My parents were always allowed to make themselves victims but not me. Idk if golden children can make themselves victims. But definitely not scapegoats. My parents always told me "who cares?" And then would go on a rant about how they've had it harder than me. Or did I want a medal. Lol I could never come out to my family. I remember watching batman forever as a child and having a crush on Chris O'Donnell and Nicole Kidman. I wrote this in my diary. I wanted to marry both of them. I was like 5/6. Well of course my parents read it and sat me down to tell me at 5/6 that I'll end up in hell if I like women and it's a very bad thing/ way to be. I didn't know what I had done wrong. I had pray for a week so God would forgive me. I didn't even know what lgbt was. It was the mid 90s. I just thought Nicole Kidman was pretty lol. And the people who comment defensively are triggered because they never processed their own trauma. It's a family systems thing so it's generational trauma. Also they probably have the mentality "well I suffered so you have to suffer the same". They didn't break the cycle. That is their shame.
I wasn't honest with myself about my attraction to girls until age 14. I never talked about it before then with my parents and they're generally allies, but I was raised Catholic so my mom didn't need to be so narcissistic herself as the church taught me just how defective and evil I was for... being a human child with emotions.
@@m.maclellan7147 HECK YEAH!!!!! For me it was my stepdad that used religion for everything!! Also used it to be better than others too. Defeats the purpose of religion.......
I grew up in a very religiously abusive (among all the other types) as well and I really saw myself in your story. Btw you are awesome and I hope you are doing great now!
@@CBrown86 Thank you! I appreciate your kindness 😊! I'm sure you're awesome too and I'm sorry you can also relate 😔. I'm in the process of getting there. I only discovered this stuff like 2 yrs ago. I hope life is going great for you as well❤️~
People who stuff their stuff don’t want to hear honesty from those of us who now have found our voice. I understand what’s going on but it doesn’t make it any easier to listen to their negativity. This makes me feel extra relieved to find a safe and validating community here. Thank you!
It’s been a revelation that I was set up and forced into these roles that could then be used to demonstrate why I was ‘defective’. Like, THEY turned every dinner into a scream-fest at me, yet I was labeled the trouble maker who made it so the family couldn’t get along, even at dinner.
The constant feeling that I was in trouble or there would be an explosion of violence seemingly out of nowhere. What I know now is that I was used as the “thermostat” for regulating my family’s problems through rage, blame, abuse, sabotage and other forms of denying self esteem because if I ever “felt good about myself” I could expose some dark secrets. It wasn’t you, it was them projecting onto the things they couldn’t handle. Congratulate and celebrate yourself for walking through the fire and coming out the other side.
@@tiptopdadddy I’m also sorry that you went through your experience too. I struggle with maintaining healthy “pride” as a form of self-love, because I’m conditioned to experience feeling proud of myself as a direct threat to my security. If I’m proud of myself, it will be the first target of abuse. And if I’m not proud of myself, my lack of pride will be targeted with abuse. I’m no-good whether I love myself or hate myself- it doesn’t matter how I feel, it’s always wrong for me to feel it. Oh god this comment hurt more than I thought it would...
“Positivity is helpful to rally somebody out of the human condition I think, but telling a trauma survivor that they should be positive and forego processing abuse is like treating cancer with a diabetes medication. It’s just off… …we’re most likely not going to educate the general public in being less triggered and being more empathic; and these ideas are for your own healing and reclaiming your own perception of yourself, and your process that the abuse was real and it matters, and there’s nothing wrong with you for speaking your truth or seeking answers.” Thank you for this one, Patrick. I’ve had a lot of bad therapy I think, and was raised by two deeply traumatized people. I’ve got a lot of problems that I’ve still maybe only just scratched the surface of, but I really needed to hear this affirmation today.
It’s dangerous to share having been victimized. People do behave as if it’s contagious and react with words or behavior what will put them on the “strong” team. They don’t want to identify with you and your perceived weakness Regarding the idea that the survivor is simply looking to get a witness: What’s funny to me is that I often find that I most need a witness when the bad actor’s behavior should be a no brainer. I need it most during times when I shouldn’t need a witness. Why do we question and doubt ourselves? Why do we have an increased need for validation when the abusers behavior is at its most self-evident? It’s, “Please tell me that I can trust my own mind.”
That's not my lived experience, people only don't want to be party to your lows repeatedly especially if it's a constant focus and not showing progress.
I was accused of trying to play the victim and yet they knew I had been mugged just after work, so when I complained about leaving work late their answer was you aren't a victim anymore. Now i see they also have trauma that they do not want to address and it scares them when I talk about it.
I'm only halfway through the video but it is scary how much I relate to the scenario you laid out with "J". My dissociation and shame has gotten so bad that I'm questioning reality beyond my childhood traumas and self-gaslighting is something I've struggled with for a long time. Your videos are so incredibly validating, especially since I cannot currently afford therapy. Thank you for another very insightful video.
Crazy stuff - I relate to “magical thinking” believing various family members might become interested in a “different” more connected relationship. Even participate in healing from trauma and toxic family experiences. After multiple experiences bashing my head against that proverbial brick wall i FINALLY determined this was a hopeless fantasy. My persistence earned me a shunning framed as we aren’t interested and you have “earned our abuse/neglect.” They now drag out childhood “offenses.” Primarily I was too emotional, or demanding of parents attention. I was bad “too much” for my parents to discipline. Stories about Dad hitting/spanking me which didn’t work because that only made me “laugh.” I don’t know what that reflex was, but I recall having a reflexive impulse to respond with hysterical laugh when I was cornered and fearful about physical aggression directed at me. I’m in my 60’s and finally get that this isn’t anything I can fix and mutual support is not in their wheelhouse. Parents were very dysfunctional and have passed on. I hoped siblings would come together-mistaken again. I feel shame for being so naive. I’ve been seeking information, healing, help and connection as long as I can remember. That effort seems to irritate family and elicits contempt and defensiveness from them. The opposite of what I’m seeking. It’s a hard truth.
Another 60 year old here. That magical thinking, they are going to treat me better this time… I finally had to let go of that, last year. We no longer need to excuse, reward, or normalize abuse we’ve experienced. And there is no shame in being naïve. You be you. The world is a better place because you are in it.
And another 60 yo here. 2023 is second year of no contact with mother and siblings. There comes a point where magical thinking and false hope wear themselves out. From the first lockdown, the banning of family gatherings brought such relief and joy. Decided to keep it that way. Common enemy status is all that remains, but predominantly a unwritten rule never to speak of the eldest. I do hope the empty chair remains the scapegoat and a new person won’t be selected. But there were signs that the matriarch was testing out some of the grandkids to fill the roll to see if anyone came to their defense. She will succeed, sadly. The role is too crucial to the family bonding rituals.
a 27 year old here, Thank you for sharing your experience, I also had an unexplained reflex to laugh when my abusive mom pinned me down and hit me. It's so helpful to hear that isn't just me.
@@saracullen6640 yes, glad you’re feeling better with the decision to avoid the negative family and look after your needs. Hopefully that role will go unfilled but I think of the scapegoat role as a way for unhealthy family members to avoid dealing with genuine problems by externalizing the issues in order to fool themselves into believing they are in control and capable of intimate relationships. “Cheap intimacy” is the term which describes this dynamic well. I wasn’t conscious of this but it was a well used behavior. Kind of an icky shortcut.
labelling someone with “victim mentality” CAN ironically be one way to avoid taking accountability, which is something people blame the victim for doing
I've had this kind of dismissal and 'this is how _I_ handled such and such situation' (giving off-handed advice) from so many people over the years, including well-meaning friends. It definitely creates this sense that one's own gut feeling/intuition can't be trusted and that one is 'too sensitive' and needs to just get over it b/c others are going through much worse things. Thanks for speaking into this.
Wow, when Patrick was reading these comments I was completely terrified. I think I don't spend much time on the Internet reading comments, that's why. I remember asking for help online in 2008 when I had just got married and my parents behaved terribly toward both me and my husband. I was spending much time on one forum and asked people there what was wrong with me and how I could change the situation. A few people were blaming me and demanding to forgive my parents right on the spot (although the parents had never asked me to forgive them or apologized for anything), but the majority were horrified and advised to stay away from my nightmare of a family and live my separate life, and that's what I finally did. Thanks to these comments and one more online community about self-help I started my healing process which brought me to where I am now. People on that forum were the first ones who showed any support to me since my birth. I hope they are ok and live happily now.
As a SA survivor/C-PSTD myself, I REALLY appreciate your comment. I would be SO much healthier if I'd walked away far SOONER than I did (at age 42). It's the hardest thing to recognize that one's parent)s) are TOXIC for you--and that keeping them in your life makes it impossible to heal. But, I felt so RESPONSIBLE FOR MY MOTHER I couldn't dis-connect. I'd urge every survivor to at least TAKE A BREAK from your faily so, taht you can work on your own healing. The RELIEF of NOT being RE-TRAUMATIZED over & over again by her. Good luck on your journey. Thanks for sharing!!!
Thank you. I've always struggled with this. Especially after a school cancelor basically told me it was my fault i was getting bullied at age 13, the school and toxic friends reinforced it. And family always took strangers side. I still really struggled with toxic shame and finding the area of accepting and acknowledging my circumstances that are not my fault and actually finding self agency and permission to move forward and get unstuck. I don't want to be a "poor me" but haven't found that balance yet of being rightful pissed off when miss treated, taking all the blame for others behaviour towards me, or "can't win no matter what i do" getting late diagnosis of asd and cptsd has helped. That bubble of "everyone else can but im never allowed, im only allowed to watch everyone live, can't live myself" is so hard to break through.
“We don’t let toxic people tell us who we are anymore.” WOW 🙌🏽 How is it that I feel so seen by a stranger than I ever have a “loved one”?? Thankful to have found this page ❤
I realised recently the gaslighting I received from the new age spiritual community as I was being accused constantly about my victim mentality. However, I noticed that when I had inner child therapy, my therapist was moving too fast on to me see my family's perspective before I even had the time to describe my feelings. I now see how uncomfortable she was feeling about me expressing how I felt. I needed more time to find the right words and to process what has happening, I wasn't ready to see my family's perspective. All that left me feeling ungrateful, weak, helpless and desperate..
A lot of people from narcissistic family systems WHO ARE ACTUALLY NARCS THEMSELVES love to defend those folks even to people who are not from their own families against scapegoats
Perfect timing. I was about to go into “water under the bridge” mode & move forward as though my past never existed. I just now realized,that would lead to more trauma by not allowing me to see perpetrators through my new rose colored glasses. I almost didn’t play this video. I’m glad I did. Thanks💝
I’m not so much J as I am a child of a J who put the toxic positivity bandaid on and then passed their trauma down to me. And now I’m ostracized for not doing that. “We don’t let traumatized people tell us who we are anymore”. I’ll remember that.
I was abused by my father when I was a child and I never tell people and only recently am in therapy although I've had problems my whole life. But, just like some other people have commented, I didn't want to be seen as damaged and looked upon with pity. I only ever told one person and a couple of other people I knew found out from other of my family members. When those people found out, they looked on me with pity. I don't need pity and I'm certainly not looking for attention. But I certainly was never able to "just get over it" and move on and not have issues. I lived my entire life with zero self esteem and always feeling less than and like a failure, keeping to myself and trying to avoid conflict and confrontation. I have anxiety and have had panic attacks in the past. But of course, I should just suck it up and get over it and don't play the victim. I hate attention on me and am not good at sharing anything about myself with others. All I want now is just to feel okay, like I'm not a failure and that the way I feel now is normal. I never went to therapy before, but am seeing a therapist now. So I never processed any of this before. I'm not sure I will ever share that aspect of my life with anyone, aside from my therapist.
Whether or not you share it, I hope the child parts of you that still feel it, are able to feel loved and validated and safe and cared for. Not pity, love and support, not because you're weak or a failure but because you are a human and no child deserves abuse.
Hey dude. I'm in the same boat and I know all the dumb stuff that doesn't make you feel better, so I will say the thing that makes me feel better: your dad sucks. You seem cool.
You know what though? You shared your story here, and I bet that was probably difficult. So I think you should be proud of being brave and talking about what you went through, even if it's just a RUclips comment. I know even typing comments i get nervous sometimes, enough that sometimes I'll wipe a whole paragraph but then end up just deleting it. So I think you're brave for writing all that. What happened to you want ok. It was wrong and awful. So however you feel about it, that's okay. It's normal for us to feel F-ed up when F-ed up things happen to us. Your feelings are totally valid, and so is your struggle. But it wasn't your fault. And it doesn't change your worth or your value as a person. I hope you know that
Thank you for posting this. I am 46yo. My mother/abuser just died and my family shamed me and asked me to leave her bedside when I started reading my letter to her out loud. Never before could I tell her how I was feeling because she would have slapped me across the face, and if she was calm, gotten angry and left it was my last chance I thought my sisters were my allies, but I was wrong. Not only did she take my childhood away from me and all of the love a child deserves from their mother, but she also took my siblings from me. She made sure that they all hated me before she died. Even though they’re still talking about me. I feel like I am constantly grieving a tremendous loss. Of course I moved away as soon as I grew up and started my own life that has nothing to do with any of them but when I am around other families, I remember how much I once used to love them all.
The scapegoat idea really hit home for me in this video: the toxic system really needs a person on whom they will lay all of their sin and send off into the wilderness to die (or whatever they did with the scape goat in the Old Testament...now I want to go find it to review the details). It was a way of spiritually purifying the group and atoning for their sins both collective and individual, I think.
I am a scapegoat child, and I believe you are correct! They send the goat out to the wild with all of their sins to purge themselves of said sins! BUT scapegoat children ONLY get killed alone in the WILD if they commit suicide or do too many drugs and alcohol and anything along those lines! 😮 That’s how I figure it! I know myself all my negative self thought is the voices I heard from family! BUT thanks to the internet and so many brilliant online FREE therapists I am VALIDATED and told I am many valuable and strong characteristics!
Trauma isn’t just acts that happened to you. It becomes your “normal and comfortable”. It’s a wiring of the brain. You will never seek better because you don’t know there is better and worse you will seek out what is familiar. It’s impossible to just change because it is wired into the neural pathways of the brain. Appropriate help is necessary to see what’s wrong.
This is so helpful as I heal from trauma and abuse while also trying to figure out how to deal with people’s criticisms and invalidation for me speaking the truth and doing the work. Thank you 🙏
You explain it all very well. Trauma survivors seek reliable witnesses. That is true. The gaslighting around you, makes it difficult to process a trauma. People get sick being gaslighted. Family members or friends are very often not able to deal with the trauma's within their own circle. This is because they are part of the system, and they still feel some loyalty to the perpetrators. A reliable witness is someone, who is not part of your family and who is not your friend or your partner and who experienced trauma's as well.
I am very interested in your video on religious abuse; for those of us who grew up in CULTS, as well as just how many people have that "forgive and forget and move on" mindset, which to me is very Christian "turn the other cheek" type stuff. To me, itʻs borderline toxic positivity and is definitely spiritual bypassing.
Me too. Please include the culty and even milder forms of spiritual abuse, like using spirituality to get compliance or demonize your valid complaint etc etc etc
I fifth this. Daughter of an Evangelical pastor and I don’t have the strength right now to go into details other than my life has been a lot of hell on earth
“You don’t know what it’s like to have it rough at home. I couldn’t eat as a kid. You have it great and don’t know it.” Oh, and the repentance part cracks me up. They are waiting for me to repent from my sexuality, not the other way around. Yet they hijack “Let me affirm my love for you.” This video is so relatable.
a note: the part about coming out and having the mother lash out aggressively? that was like whiplash. that's exactly what happened to me. she made it all about her, ""how could i keep a secret like this", "why didn't i tell her", the crying the "heartbreak", etc. and it's still going on, residually, with her. i knew at the time it was an insane reaction and i had only been forced to come out because of an argument with an equally abusive father. now that i've been researching what i've been through, i know my mother has some textbook traits of narcissism, and this is one of them.
Right? It's like "hey, so here's this new thing that I discovered about myself that was previously unknown or unrealized, even to me" "How could you keep that from me? Why didn't you tell me?" Um maybe because I didn't freaking know! I didn't know how to walk when I was born either. Are you gonna get upset that I was keeping my ability to walk a secret for my first 2 years of life too? So stupid.
"I've seen things you people wouldn't believe ..." always comes to mind. People speaking from a place of privilege have no idea the harm they are capable of. I have no problem showing them.
Once again, you nailed it! The nuances are so hard to sort out and it's SO complicated. Thank you for validating us! Thank you for authenticity! Nothing has made me feel safer and more understood than your content. These videos mean the world to me, thank you! 💜💯
This helped me a lot. I was still feeling weird about a friend of mine who told me I just wanted to be a victim. They themselves are hurting and didn't want to be reminded of it. Instead of saying that to me they chose to hurt me. I don't feel animosity. Just sad. I'll be ok. Thank you.
Similar thing happened to me. I eventually got to the point where I was able to think of it like "Wow, you threw away our 16+ year friendship so you wouldn't feel rejected by a group of toxic people. That's so sad." I can only feel pity for them.
The negative comments is why I shut down long before the internet abuse perpetuated the ability to lesson someone's pain. I have lived in hell alone over 25 years because of people and that " shut up and stop acting like a victim" bs 😢 bless you for sharing your education and experience
Jeez. You described about 90% of my childhood. That was very strange to hear third hand. Even the high achieving but passively suicidal. Mother threatening suicide. Family avoids upsetting mother. Lost brother. Golden sister. Only there was a constant dichotomy with me, I was either 100% the worst kid (selfish, ungrateful) or 100% the best (what would my life be without you, you’re so wonderful). I’m so glad to have sought mental health help, even if i am only just now really realizing how messed up childhood was.
Aside from having siblings, you described my childhood better than I could have. The constant "dichotomy" (that's an awesome word btw) always and still does make me feel like I'm crazy, like I'm definitely the problem and I'm just imagining the abuse or being dramatic. Thank you for putting my experience in words!!❤
@@thecatthatcameback I’m sorry you dealt with this too! It’s such a weird situation, and so hard to reconcile as you grow through it. Wishing you healing and happiness!
This helped me understand my origin family system so well. I am finally cutting ties with a toxic mother. I am struggling with my relationship with my siblings who are also processing the abuse or are willingly ignoring it or have become abusers. I am getting further along in my healing process and your videos are so helpful in getting a pulse check. I realized I could talk about these issues with many coworkers and friends as most can relate either personally or another friend/family member. I have worked really hard this past year after my dad died on my childhood trauma. So much is so clear to me now, and I finally feel like my inner adult can take over and be there for my inner child. I feel like I have spent the first part of my life raising myself and now I finally feel a shift that I have done it and can now relax. I have spent time building new support systems and have never felt so confident. Thank you 🙏😊
It’s very interesting that “being a victim” is seen as something the person chose. A victim is a person who was harmed due to the action of others - hurt externally. So… 1) super weird that people are blamed for something someone else did 2) super weird that people view it as a personal problem and bad to be when the person did not do it to themselves. I understand the mindset of not being negative all the time because you can get stuck thinking that things won’t get better; however, that’s not being a victim. That’s being pessimistic (or paranoid in some cases). If you got hit with a bottle that was thrown across the room from a fight you weren’t a part of, you were a victim of that person. A reasonable person would not blame you for being caught in cross fire of a rogue bottle. They could say “why go to rooms where people fight a lot if you don’t want to get hit with a bottle?“ well, regardless, you got hit and need medical attention lol You can just say you got hit with a bottle and not blame yourself for it because you didn’t throw the bottle. What happened happened, now you have to heal.
One of the first therapists I opened up to said, "You seem very victim." I thought for a second then said, "Yes. I am a victim of abuse. Because of that I have trauma. That's why I'm in therapy. To heal from the trauma." After that he pretty much told me he didn't know how to help me heal from trauma, so I got a new therapist. So many people want us to just have this inspirational survivor story, and they want us to have that story immediately. We aren't their inspiration porn.
Wow… I’ve never felt so overwhelmingly validated. I’ll have to listen again later. There were quite a few times Patrick’s voice was drowned out by my repeated cries of, “Oh my gawd, yes!” Thank you so much for this video. 🖤
I realized that I do have a tendency to be a victim to gain compassion. I've been through a lot but you made me realize that I can take care of myself, heal myself and take control of my life. Thank you so much
Only 11 minutes in so far and this is brilliant already. Yes, this is EXACTLY how it happens. Sad to say, the student-services counsellor scenario is pretty accurate to my experience, complete with the stupid mindfulness handout. Edit: Finished! One of your best videos ever. I especially found the “Root Cause” section to be powerful.
Right? And far too often folks in J scenario don't make it past that student counselor, they can't cope and end it. Don't know why they are allowed to practice with such harmful "solutions".
Patrick: We were raised by toxic people. This means we learned some bad habits from them. It means we do some of the things to others that they did to us. At the same time we want to be better, to treat others better than we were treated, but we don't have the skills, knowledge and self-awareness to navigate friendships, work relationships, and daily life. We are very conflicted people. We don't know how to tell when we are abusing and when we are being abused. We oscillate make and forth between two extremes: it is my fault on the one side and it was done to me on the other side. This creates an inner state of confusion that makes getting healthy so much more complicated than it should be. We are our parents and we are desperately trying not to be our parents. If we blame our parents and siblings, we are doing what our parents and siblings did to us. They blamed us. It is very hard to be sure you are right about the abuse you experienced. It is very hard to say I was a victim. Ultimately, we must realize we are all victims. Our parents were victims, but I can't save them. I can only save myself. Once we admit it and understand how the way we were treated created a messed up person, we can stop blaming ourselves and begin to be better to others. We have to fix ourselves first which means admitting we were victims.
I have felt shame for disliking my family and not feeling that magical "family is everything" feeling since I was a tween. I absolutely knew I was being abused and scapegoated, but every time I thought about it, I "realized" I was playing the victim. I stopped testing and trying, and almost completely disconnected from my dad's side of the family as soon as I got a car. I just haven't been part of my family. I got kicked out of his house for "financial reasons" at 18, and by the time I went no contact at 24, everyone but my mom got pretty used to not seeing me. It's been a year of no contact, and it's hard to feel guilty, because I'm 99% sure my dad doesn't even miss me, but I'm still afraid other people will judge me. In my eyes, I cut off a relationship that never really existed, so it doesn't feel extreme at all, but to other people it might seem really drastic. I just couldn't connect with them, even when I tried my best, and now that I'm an adult, as sad as it is, I know I'm never gonna get that connection. So cheers to giving up every now and again! Lol
I had a psychiatrist tell me to get over it, laugh in my face and even rage at me when I explained my family situation. Couldn’t understand why I struggled so much with depression, anxiety, C-PTSD and hyper-vigilance so badly after years of living away from them. He got even more upset when I told him that the talk therapy made me worse for a while. He made me feel like it was because I was doing something wrong and made me feel like I was a drug addict when I asked about medications, and used my family’s history of drug use against me like he was judging me for what THEY did.
Wow! Now I know how my Adult child feels concerning me invalidating his feelings from his childhood trauma! It was put on me as well pull yourself up by your boot straps and get over it. Thank you for your expertise and wisdom
This one hits home. My brother recently said stuff like this to me: "your fascination with narcissism is unhealthy", "continuing to focus on these issues keeps you in victim mode" etc. At the time I didn't really understand why it was so upsetting. But after watching this video I understand that the upsetting part is the fact that he is implying that I am making a choice to "cry about it" and make it the focus of my existence as if he is above that somehow. THAT's the part that is so offensive. So what do we do about these relatives? Do we just stop talking to them?
Talk to them about the weather and baseball but nothing personal. Ever. This really is your only choice to stay safe from someone who refuses to see you.
Oh boy! While triggering, I am also seeing that the more my healing and understanding develops the more I have zero time for these unsafe or half-safe people... It's like nope, don't need that don't want that in my life!
I experienced all of the above when it came to family,friends,therapist’s,spiritual counselor’s, Al-Anon. “Keep Coming Back It Works”. 😮 It wasn’t working. I still go because I find that there is still humanity there. However, I’m aware I can stick myself with what I’ve been comfortable with over the years. The people I gravitate to are people LIKE MY TOXIC FAMILY SYSTEM! What the what! Yeah, so thank you for this Dr. I have to be very CAREFUL and select healthy individuals for my mental health. It’s tricky. Yayee I’m not crazy or selfish!!!!
Positivity was the worst thing that ever happened over the course of my life. I grew up with a mix of violence and toxic positivity. In my experience, positivity enables and encourages violence.
Great video and understanding I see abusive people as the ones with victim mentality or playing victim: everything is someone else's fault and they made them do it This is different from victims-survivors who are not abusing others but dealing with the abuse others have inflicted on them and has been internalized. Correcting the abuser's narrative and making them accountable for their actions doesn't mean not taking responsibility for your own. It mean you stop taking responsibility, blame and shame that belongs to someone else It's truly a difficult journey to healing bc like you very well demonstrate, even outside of the original abusive environment, you are constantly bombarded with the same abuse enabling and victim blaming narrative in society and other institutions or relationships I think it's crucial to acknowledge we are receiving those messages. They are not true but we are receiving them, we are living in environments that think like this and treats you accordingly which is not ok
A year into therapy, my therapist asked me, "Do you often feel like the victim?" And I just about lost my mind at her. I thought about finding a new therapist. When I came around, I saw what she was actually getting at. Even though I /was/ a victim during childhood, I couldn't see that it was no longer happening in my present. She talked to me about having a "survivor" mindset, that didn't invalidate my experiences and feelings, but gave me more personal power and room to grow.
Why are you describing my situation in such detail. It’s very spot on- down to me seeking help from a therapist and being told get over it. I struggled for so long, and moved away alone to allow my healing. I’m in a much better place but still healing and learning to allow my space, set boundaries, affirm myself because I feel so alone in my journey. My family of origin support system sucks lol I am my support system and I’m praying to break these generational curses to create a new foundation for my future self and children. I know one day I will succeed and be exactly where I want to be, and I won’t be stressed or held back over all the trauma I overcame.
Patrick, You are the gift that keeps on giving. My “Yoda”…Jungian therapist passed away after my 2 1/2 yrs of weekly sessions. I found you about a yr ago & have found comfort in your wisdom. I have recently found a new kind & wonderful therapist & recommended he check out your channel & he thanked me for rec. Thank you for being such a gifted therapist. 🥰
This is the most powerful piece that dives deep into the psychology of a victim-blaming mindset. It's a shame there ain't enough content online like this. In my humble opinion, this video should be properly titled as "Dismantling The Victim-Blaming Mindset".
You hit on something when you talked about what I call stuffing your feelings. I grew up around and knowing many people of the WW2 or children of the depression era people and what they all had in common was this stuffing. They'd take a hit and not talk about it. They acted like everything was fine. It wasn't, but they locked themselves into that mind set. They often smoked, some drank, even to excess and had few children. Some of my great Uncles had no children at all. They were married, but refused to have children(mom's side). My fahter's side uncles also, took it even further and didn't have any children at all, nor ever married. They came from large families and lived through the depression as children. Sooo, history lesson, but hopefully you see the pattern. Some things were hush hush, other things were kind of gossipy in the family of my maternal origin.
So triggering but so helpful. I’ve decided to stop “testing” my family and former friends and just working towards my healing alone (with my therapist) for the moment. Thank you so much for this video. There are too many enablers around online or undiagnosed disordered people telling people they have a victim mentality while completely misusing the term.
“There is nothing dysfunctional about wanting a family to be supportive.” 😔
Gut punch 🤛🏻
Ouch 💔
In an Abusive Family, it is a dream that won't come true. Let go the little child hope & care for yourself. Don't keep trying to get delicious healthy apples from the toxic dry cleaners. Failing is continually repeating what does not work & expecting a different outcome.
💯💯💯💔
@@tanakaren1822Toxic positivity. You were literally described in this video.
"We don't let toxic people tell us who we are anymore. Or tell us what our experience was." - Patrick Teahan. Thank you, Patrick.
This is absolute gold.
i cope laugh back about how i think they are lol it make it neutral quite fast'
"ego 1 haha ego 2" ego 1: "cool story bro you are better grats"
That one statement was worth 43 minutes of my time. Patrick is an emotional Jedi! I am but a Padawan on this journey and could only make the slowest progress without the leaders in this community like Patrick.
Exactly!❤
" Get over it!" is what a Toxic Cousin Windy( who is a 2 year old amoK , marriage wrecking 50 year old Witch) always says! Windy says " carol does not love me, boo hoo, ignores me Too!
This one is triggering for me. My abusive parent often said 'stop playing the victim' as a way to invalidate my emotional experience about being abused. I WAS a victim: I was a CHILD. It happened.
They love saying that I doubt a healthy parent would even say that
I emphasize with you so much. My parents said this till they were blue in the face! I get triggered from the word victim just because of it…
“Stop crying or I’ll give you something to cry about” was my parents’ version of this. I love each and every one of you; you are so brave. ❤❤❤
My parents always said that i burn my bridges . If you dont like it move out, i am messy because i told the truth. And i always thought that was true... I am just now seeing that is not true. I am 38.
@@cutecurls9162 😍I am 59
“Victim, victim, victim, you’re always playing the victim” said every abuser in my life ever 😢
Yet when you stand up and speak up suddenly it turns to "I can't believe you said that!" With THEM playing the victim. Hahaha talk about low IQ.
This resonates with so many of us. I hope you find yourself in a better, safer place today.
On a positive note, that is a strong red flag very helpful with the weeding out of toxic people 🎉
Whenever a person talks about legitimate social injustice, there are some people who push back and accuse that person of “playing the victim.” False narratives around capitalism, meritocracy, equal opportunity and rational choice each facilitate this abuse/trauma denial on a grand scale.
spot on!! really feel like "the american dream" is the amalgamation of all of that, as well as the recent rampage of scams, schemes and rug-pulls that play on people's familiar exposures and susceptibilities to these dynamics :(
Seriously how do you keep showing up in the comments of all the videos I watch?!
Omg it's TayZonday!
Omg, it's you :)
That's so true. How can we expect victims to be the bigger person or be "ultra rational" when often, the abuse itself wasn't rational at all! It comes from a place of either pain, spite, lust or greed, or just taking advantage of children's position of dependence period. You're not a rational being when it happens to you, as a CHILD, duh...and the perpetrator certainly wasn't rational either. They hide behind "logic"and "rationalism" to cover up their own impulsive bad acts.
it’s like people are angry they’re being asked to hear someone’s pain. they repress their feelings and demand you do also. if they were really so healthy wouldn’t they be providing support rather than essentially saying shut up and out on a fake persona?
That's the thing I think. The emotional neglect that causes one child in the family to have a victim mindset can cause another child to have an anti-victim mindset. This means they refuse to allow their feeling of being a victim and repress them. Then they become highly critical of themself if these feelings arise in themselves or others. They are hyper responsible and blame themselves for everything rather than blaming others. Both poles are unhealthy but together form a balance within the family.
@@juliedacosta8841Might be true for some, but the "anti-victim" people I know play up how hard a struggle their own life was and have double standards. Their own advice suddenly doesn't apply in their own situations.
As an SA survivor, I've learned that "believing survivors" really needs to mean so much more than believing that survivors aren't lying. Believing survivors needs to mean that we believe that traumatic events happened *and* we need to believe that there is real, ongoing trauma that stems from those events. In other words, not just about believing that something happened in the past, but about believing survivors about their experiences and struggles in the present.
Thanks so much for this video. It's definitely one of your most helpful videos for my journey. I'm really looking forward to your upcoming insights on religious abuse.
Me too!
But the thing is there are also people who misuse the "believe survivors" thing by just outright lying. There should be safeguards in place in both instances. I'm not trying to be contradictory, I'm on board with you that yes survivors should be believed but I've also seen the other side where someone can outright lie about being a survivor of some kind of abuse and ruin the supposed "abusers" life even though nothing happened. Sigh what a world.
@@idontknowyetwhoiam I think it's meant more in 1:1 situations, if someone is telling their story treat it as real to their face. I had a situation where a female friend said her ex is abusive turned out he threw her out because she cheated. I don't regret helping her out, but I also didn't go around telling everyone her story, ruining his reputation.
And in serious cases courts, police won't convict anyone without evidence, that's what they'll tell you before you even file a police report - don't bother if you don't have witnesses or physical evidence. There's not that many criminal masterminds faking evidence "Gone Girl" style, but it is police's job to prove it is fake. And of course there's consequences if evidence is proven to be false.
I mean, I don't know where you're from, but I have friends who disclosed their childhood and adulthood stories, but I personally don't know anyone who has been accused of stuff out of court and got their life ruined. Knowing to ruin the life it has to be a public event I feel like we would see that in our personal circles more often if that was a common thing.
@@idontknowyetwhoiam False. Reports. Are. Exceptionally. Rare.
Also if it happened in the past doesn't mean it's not something horrible, even if it didn't have repercussions in the present that's still something horrific that happened to us, that someone did to us, nobody should experience those things.
"We don't let toxic people tell us who we are" thank you for saying that Patrick!
Thank you for mentioning that our inner child always wants to “test” if the family system will be there for us. I always kick myself after “testing” and being disappointed again. But it’s a good reminder that it’s the inner child in me that still wants that from my family, even though my adult self knows it’s probably not possible.
This!
That stuck out to me, too, because even now as I’m pushing 40, I’m still “testing” to see if I’m good enough. 🙃
Yes! I’m 49 and I still find myself ‘forgetting’ and testing the relationship. Immediate wake-up call!
I do this all the time, tho it's not family, it's new or old friends who I apparently didn't get the message from the first time, they can't handle any expression of negative emotions. At all. They are highly averse. And pretty hurtful in spite of how positive they think they are
This one hit me too, I'm having a hard time fully accepting it...
There is a book by Patricia Evans called "Controlling People" that explains how in childhood when a parent tells the child after they fall "You're just trying to make a scene and get attention" it disconnects the child from themselves and makes the child not trust their own inner guidance. Of course, if you fell you want love and support, but was mirrored back was "You're making a scene and want attention." My biological father did everything in that book and then some. Patricia Evans also wrote "The verbally abusive relationship." I would say as a lay person who has experienced psychotically intense childhood trauma that people don't seem to understand the value of a human being which seems to cause them to minimize abuse and trauma and downplay it. It's a gazillion times worse than those people acknowledge. They are in denial.
And parents know what they're doing they know their injecting their stupid poison slowly in their kid
Thank you for sharing the title of the book.
Why on earth do we not look at such parents and pointedly ask them "so you think you can be a parent and only give your children attention when YOU feel like it?"
Patricia Evans made me finally understand abuse - a wonderful author for healing.
I once had sliced of a thin piece of skin on my knee and felt faint after. The skin just freaked me out, my Mam gave out to me for lying down in case I fainted. She was so angry! Said I was being dramatic.
Toxic positivity is most definitely a thing, the one who was abused isn't CHOOSING to be caught up in it, their healing process has been a vast majority of the time actively sabotaged and they need help figuring out how to heal, all those people invalidating just adds insult to injury, they are ALREADY feeling invalidated because they were taught to do it to THEMSELVES.
Exactly this.
I recently had to tell someone that even though I'm seeking help with childhood trauma I don't want people to think I'm trying to look like a victim. I don't want them feeling sorry for me. I just want them to understand that this whole thing is needed for me to get better. I'm so tired of feeling shame. It's tough to explain to them or anyone what's going on.
Seeing pity in the eyes of other people for me makes me even more embarrassed and anxious.
@@rookiej5587 yeah, they might mean well but they don't really understand and it does make it worse.
I understand. ❤
@@shinkamui you're saying this is like when someone says, "i'm not racist, but..."? i'm not disagreeing.
I'm sorry you are feeling that way.
goddamnit I HATE it when families protect sexual predators and shame the victim.
Happened to me, too.
I also hate it when a therapist uses “they” pronouns needlessly for nearly an hour.
@@billyb4790almost like abuse can happen regardless of gender 🤯
@@sloanecore yes except he was fully aware of this person's gender but opted instead for the ultra-hip PC non-binary reference to score those sweet virtue points.
@@billyb4790or just wanted to make it more relatable to everyone 🤷🏽♀️
Very triggered by those troll comments and half-safe bullshitters !! This world is indeed very narcissistic and hard to navigate for childhood trauma survivors, but I get so encouraged in living my truth and continue the healing process thanks to your teachings and the bigger community that gets it right; thank you so much !!
I was shocked at the troll comments on the Instagram post. I wish people would watch the video before commenting so they understood what the topic was about.
I think of it as “the shitty golden rule”, these people project the shittiness they feel about themselves on to others, hate others as you hate yourself
You said everything I feel!❤️
Those half safer bullshitters are the worst!! The outright mean ones feel “safer” sometimes coz at least we know where they stand!!
You should be triggered because this is a fucked up video that should have never been posted. Used to be a fan of this channel, but fuck this pretend therapist.
" Confusing seeking help with seeking attention when those two things are night and day." 😔
The people that say “suck it up buttercup” are the same people that go on to dump their trauma onto their own children 🙄
They may seem “fine” and “doing better than you do” for now but that’s a thin illusion. They are diving head first into a world of nonsense.
You’re doing amazing whoever you are 🤍🕊
100% these are my parents fr. Even now she says to just ignore things and is not even willing to acknowledge how her mindset can be different to her as a person
Those people chose the bully path.
Legit my younger brother. He thinks he is the toughest person ever. I am older than him but by far more sensitive because of my childhood trauma
I've literally heard that exact phrase
"... a family with low emotional intelligence, severe distrust of outsiders..." man, that's my whole culture!
My husbands first therapist told him he wasnt special and that lots of kids get abused. So glad he was even willing to give therapy another shot after that. Because his abuse was insane, and she is insane for trying to normalize it.
Woah, I'm so sorry. That's atrocious!
Bizarre
I had a couple of awful therapists too but that takes the cake. I’m so sorry. Really makes you wonder how some folks got into this profession at all.
I feel like that person’s degree was fake. I’m so sorry your husband dealt with that from someone who probably seemed like an authority figure who could help him at the time. Point blank: some therapists are bad at their jobs.
Your husband is a trooper🙂
It takes a long time for some of us to realize and admit the truth of what happened to us. During that time we are definitely not playing the victim. In fact, many of us believe that something was wrong with us, not our parents or siblings. We don't start the journey to healing until we realize we were not totally the perpetrator and that something in our family was very wrong. In other words, we begin to realize something happened to us which we as kids had no control over. We have to come to realize and accept that we were victims. Once we admit this we are ready to undo our victimhood, to stop being victims. It is absolutely necessary for us to say we were victims and yet society points at us and makes us believe we are so wrong for telling the truth.
I saw something on social media a couple of weeks ago where the person was talking about one of their psych classes and someone in class said something about well what if the client is just trying to get attention? The professor looked straight at them and said "what's wrong with someone wanting attention?" The student legit said they had no answer for that. That post really stuck with me. Especially for childhood and family trauma that is a really valid question. What is wrong with wanting or needing attention and validation because that's exactly what they didn't get. At least not the kind of attention that makes them feel safe and comforted and happy. But also most parents just want kids to be compliant so they don't have to deal too much with them. I get a lot of those parents are also dealing with trauma themselves, but it's also the culture of toxic positivity that absolutely comes from the spiritual community who also just want compliance from the general population.
This is something with which I’ve struggled. If someone - especially your own child - is seeking your attention, why is that bad? If you can help them feel safe, you can help them learn different ways to ask for attention if the behavior associated with seeking attention is destructive or harmful to themselves or others.
Yes, I feel this all the way in my body! It's like some people figure out what you need, just to make sure you don't get it. Then when you respond or react about the reality that your (reasonable) needs are ignored and as a person the situation is invalidating, they call you crazy. Even if you unemotionally just state it like that. I've been calling it "the impossible position" lately. I'm done with impossible positions. I'm infuriating to the toxic people around me right now...
@@foxyfox9196 That's a horrible situation that you've been in. I hope you're living somewhere safer now.
THIS THIS THIS! I tried explaining that to my spawn point even as a CHILD: OF COURSE kids want "attention" they need to be parented. We are social creatures, EVERYONE wants attention, and you certainly need attention when you're in distress! But they CRIMINALIZE normal human reactions to their abuse to justify the continued abuse!
I'll answer that one! The reason it's a problem to other people is one of two things I have learned and observed. 1. That person learned how to surpress their needs because they were shamed for wanting attention and now they are doing it to others (If I can't have it why should you?) or 2. They want to redirect everyone's attention to themselves and someone else needing it is competition because the believe there is a finite amount and it should all go to them.
My father sexually abused us 3 kids. Mother a narcissist. When she found out, I was 20, she was raging & never spoke to me the same for years. She never even asked questions. Made me the scapegoat- so that family didn’t believe me.
Therapist said, ‘You’re playing the victim’.
Husband said, ‘Get over it’ Luckily another therapist said that is her history.
It’s like when I was 7, there was a switch and I wasn’t the same anymore. I developed acute OCD as a child & Anorexia at 17yrs old.
I feel better now, but I still have elements of OCD and I will never forget what happened to me.
So, I feel your right it’s too threatening for others to contend with.
Now I try to listen to someone else’s trauma or burden with empathy.
I’ve always wanted information like this. Thank you for the your expertise 🇦🇺🙏🇺🇸
I think it's hard to blame our parents. Because as children we are programed to love them. But it is an important part of the healing.
Whenever I try to talk out my childhood trauma and abuse feelings with my mom from my father (her ex husband) it gets difficult because she just wants me to let it go. I told her you’ve been through his abuse as well. I know you didn’t let it go. I’ve told her look at our bad habits to cope in life when it gets hard. We do the same thing. We medicate. All she can say is she’s moved on etc.
I have to tell her I’m not mad at you. I hate him. Even today he blames me for it by ignoring me. We’ve haven’t talked in over 15+ years. My older sister is the same way as him. Same ugliness, center of attention and has to control the agenda. We are not close. Anyone that has the same traits as my father I either have a problem with or I just don’t bother with.
And most of society will take the parent's side as if every parent is perfect... which is utter b.s.
@@susanherbert4151
That is so true. Also emotional abuse usually gets ignored, and that can be so damaging. I think not putting the blame where it belongs makes the guilt and shame fall back on the child. This is true for me.
It is very hard. I agree. Particularly if it looks like you’re expressing that your MOTHER had flaws. Mothers get excused for everything because we have unrealistic expectations of mothers that they often cannot meet. We can’t acknowledge that there are a lot of shitty mothers out there because then we may have to examine the imbalance of our social structures and our expectations of motherhood. The (invisible) burdens that women shoulder in child rearing is disproportionate to what men experience. And let’s face it, if we tell women the truth about Motherhood, women might choose the autonomy of not having children. Instagram would probably collapse if every women on there didn’t list their first credential as “Proud Mother”, (men, not you. You just list your ‘real’ accomplishments) Because Motherhood is wonderful! Have babies! Who will take care of you in old age? Don thank get FOMO! But in reality, on the whole women suffer a lot of abuse in our societies. Why the hell are they entrusted to care for the most vulnerable (without being pressured into it, or getting therapy)? Many of our ill-equipped mothers may have opted out, had we corrected the bs narrative that ‘when you see that baby you will fall in love!” Money, marriage, or Motherhood is not going to change you if you’re damaged and not doing the work. Do not encourage everyone to have children.. it’s reckless and irresponsible.
Patrick uses the phrase “holding parents accountable” which is imo a constructive way of understanding your past story while healing and moving forward
Thanks! I am completely misunderstood, miserable. I have just been diagnosed with schizophrenia along with CPTSD, PTSD I’m 52. Literally my condition has been untreated until current time.I survived severe physical, emotional, neglect, abuse, as a child from my family of origin it is continual. Every single waking moment is a struggle. The only time I am happy is when I’m dreaming. I can’t hold a job. I have no friends. The one existing relationship I have is being held together by a single thread. HELP
💚
Hi Melissa. Do you need someone to talk to? I hope you know that none of this is your fault
💯💯 can relate. realized at 32 during extreme burn out exactly how toxic my family is. getting sober showed me I deserve more, but I literally cannot function and at stuck living with toxic family without a clue how to get out of the situation. I don’t have a single person in my life, my dog is literally keeping me afloat by the minute.
@@kryssalou i hear ya, same here. shit is difficult. peace love and best of luck
Thanks everybody, it really helps to know I’m not the only person to be so misunderstood and miserable. I appreciate all of your support. How kind. Thank you again for the gentle and genuine healing support.
Those comments really unsettled me because it’s like each time I’ve opened up to someone, anything they’ve had to say has fallen along those lines so I’ve just given up
Yes, I've learned to not open up to people, too. Especially therapists or family. Or new friends. I feel like no one has a heart.
Trauma plays a huge role in the development of really nasty permanent physiological and psychiatric health conditions, and the people who shame people for struggling to overcome it can be truly as disgusting as the parents who gas light their kids.
I was told I'm playing the victim by a so called trauma therapist. She assumed this about me because I function in a "career" (which I hate but pais well). She also shamed me for even seeking help. Apparently one has to be poor to qualify as a trauma survivor in her mind. She was extremely disrespectful and condescending. In retrospect I should have just stood up and left. "Therapists" like her can cause so much damage. I had already watched a few of your videos so it threw me back but I got over it.
I would report her to the appropriate people. NOW ! YOU had the skills to walk away from her gas lighting abuse, someone else might take their life.
She has no right to shame ANYONE that asks for help ! WTF is she a therapist for ?! What a horrible person she is.
@@m.maclellan7147 I second this. If you can, please report her. She should NOT be in that position at all. It could cost lives.
@@m.maclellan7147 That was my impulse as well. However it is not easy to do that here in Germany and apparently nothing really comes of it. I would have otherwise.
@@ferelithian I hope you’ve found a better support network. You deserve it. ❤
Yeah, that's horrible... I've seen recently so called "professional" similar to that too. Luckily for me it wasn't during a session, only during a discussion about PTSD in general and someone, who claimed to be "experienced professional", jumped into conversation and ridiculed everyone. That person said that PTSD is "extremely rare" (bullshit) and "happens only if someone is directly threatened to be killed, like in having a gun being pointed to their head", so "we shouldn't worry about having or getting it". I was so angry, that was such extremely stupid and insensitive thing to say. Description of PTSD does include experiencing of a life threat, but it doesn't have to be so literally. It's like they have read a textbook and memorised the contents, but haven't understood what all that actually means. And it wasn't first time "professional" or "psychology major student" took things way too literally, it has happened before, just the subject of discussion was less infuriating and more laughable. Issues with professional education, I guess. :(
My mother is a psych therapist who abused the living hell out of me and tells me to get over it now that I am in my 40s.
The hurtful "don't be a victim" statement that people tell trauma survivors/mentally ill can be a problem. It is a part of toxic positivity and the myth that happiness is just a choice or mindset change. I recently opened up about trauma only to have someone tell me "it's a victim mindset" if I'm not completely, magically healed right away. It's okay to recognize you were victimized. It's okay to not be okay sometimes. And I won't let anyone explain my own experience to me.
@@supernova2875 oh, yes! That's perfect. Thanks for sharing it
@@supernova2875 my counsellor is a big proponent of Gabor Mate’s work - I haven’t read any of his books yet, but I’m starting to see why she likes him. That quote makes a lot of sense.
It always baffled me when people say "Don't be a victim" or "They have such a victim mentality". Yes, of course they do, they were victimised and they need to process it without morons making them feel shameful for having perfectly normal feelings and responses to what they experienced.
Would these people also say "Stop feeling pain " if you broke your arm? It's beyond logic to me.
@@TheLiquidCat saaaame!
I have a feeling everyone who had a childhood is a trauma survivor with an inner child that still has an impact on their present life. It's not an us vs them dichotomy. It's a we're in the trauma jungle scenario.
This is such a good reminder! As survivors we're programmed to question ourselves instead of the person attacking us. Our "bullshit tolerator" is set way too high and it's hard to tell when someone has poorly conveyed good intentions, or is just plain mean. We often don't realize how messed up things are until later. If something just feels off to you, listen to yourself. Later in your healing, you'll see what was going on and be glad you did.
Yup, that bs toleration is a real problem too on the workfloor. People are shocked when I tell them my work stories. Good thing I'm no longer at that place
Well said & sound input. Thanks!!!
this
The platitudes and breezy positivity are so dismissive of people's experiences.
I love when he acts out the reaction of Jay, “wow, you’re right I should just let my sexual abuse go, I’ve been marinating in this stuff way too long.😂” I want to do that when people are invalidating and tell you to toughen up
That sarcasm made me laugh out loud. I might use that tactic as well going forward 😂
I'm not a Victim even though I was victimized. I'm a survivor and years of personal work have made me a Thriver.
💔💝💗💞
🎉❤
I like "victor" for a label.
im a sentient being that try not hurt unnessesarily other sentient being and not be hurt unnesesarily.
the rest is optional and unimportant. respect my life while i eat baby lamb sauce
What’s wrong with the word “victim”? Why do so many people have an aversion to it? We need to reclaim it, because it’s the truth and there’s no shame in it.
THANK YOU I’ve heard so many psychologists and therapists take this weird bootstraps stance. I remember the holistic psychologist made a video titled “how to deal with toxic situations” and their advice was literally “own what you did to cause it.” Just the weirdest victim blamey rhetoric, I was so taken aback.
I’ve heard other professionals say things like “wanting our abusers to seek help is actually a selfish form of control that we have to release” Like no, wanting someone to get help and stop abusing you isn’t selfish??
It’s sad how refreshing and uncommon it is to finally hear a sensible take that isn’t a new age spin on blaming or shaming the victim trying to navigate abuse.
There are so many cults that claim we create our own realities, that place 100% of the burden of everything, from disease to social situations on you. Yes, our perception and response matter and can influence our mental health and actions, but we are in constant dialogue with other people personally and globally
I found out that the original phrase was "pull yourself up by your bootstraps and see if you float." It was supposed to be a criticism of people who told others to pull themselves together, rub some dirt on it, and move on. And then the people who it was supposed to shame co-opted it. 🤦♀️
While it's inappropriate for people to blame people who survived trauma from their family, we do need to consider “what will happen if they never get help?” It's entirely possible that they won't, especially if the family member has narcissistic personality disorder. I identify with a lot of the description of J Doe, and the family sounds very familiar. Since there are plenty of family members who don't “believe in therapy,” it may overall not be worth the energy of trying to get them to change. Personally, I know I can want my family to change all I'd like, but it doesn't mean that it will actually change anything. I see it as accepting that some people suck and try to keep moving forward for my peace. It's hard to balance not ruminating about our situation and feeling what we are going to feel in that moment. I'm not sure if some of this has to do with the prefrontal cortex not developing until about age 25 or not, so it can be easier to get lost in our feelings when the individual is under that age. This can be especially true if the person is not neurotypical. It's more complicated than most people make it seem. I doubt that most of the Boomer generation are informed of what we know now. Perhaps their reactions are because they found that if they did talk about these things, most people would stop talking to them, so they either “pushed it down” or took their own lives when they couldn't cope.
@@mhall383yeah it's not healthy to get hung up on/have your healing depend on someone else getting therapy (codependency?) yet I wouldn't call someone selfish for wanting their abuser to get help or just stop in general. That's just reasonable and healthy
@@mhall383 I agree people have numerous reasons and influencing factors behind anything they do. but I dislike responding to abusers with a “well, lets look at both sides” standpoint. if someone is consistently doing harm to me, I’m generally not more invested in their mental health and emotional history than my own, you know? its not irrelevant! but I would be so annoyed if my abuser starts going into their traumas of the past when theyre literally traumatizing me in the present with no remorse or self awareness.
I think its entirely reasonable for people to not want to be abused and to either ask for the abuser to change or to leave. neither is always realistic in every situation of course. but if an abuser refuses to change, I personally feel like the highest priority is finding a safe environment away from that person, not to do their inner child work for them. (tbh even if they do try to change it doesnt always mean its safe to stay)
not everyone can do that, and I strongly agree its important to consider what to do if an abuser doesnt seek help or you cant leave. that honestly doesnt get talked about enough! so much of what ive seen w traumawork positions the trauma and abuse in the past tense.
sometimes you have to develop survival strategies to cope with living in a pervasively traumatic environment, like attempting to appease/heal/therapize/serve your abuser.
it’s especially difficult for people that still have to fill those roles as adults, who’ve had to fill those roles all their lives. people w disabilities for example are often more isolated and may have extra barriers like not being able to live alone or having medical conditions/equipment that cant be transported easily. I wouldnt blame anyone for doing what they have to do to survive abuse when they have no recourse. but I dont know if id say its advisable.
my point was really just that ive witnessed professionals shaming victims and holding them responsible for their own abuse and desires to not abused. I wasnt saying that the only option is to attempt to get family members to go to therapy though. every situation is unique and has to be handled carefully imo.
Been thinking a lot about this. Calling "victimization" our own acknowledgement of our traumas - and the pain, grief and sorrow that comes with it - is the worst thing for people getting in contact with their own past. Let one cry as much as I want. Let one relive their past as much as they can handle. It might actually be their first time.
Those social media comments are so, so hurtful 😞
One of the worst things I was told was "no wonder you don't have any friends" and for the life of me I can't figure out how to make that one stop making me cry.
It is true that I can't hold down a friendship. That makes it hurt so much more.
I don't know how to make this stop making me suffer. But if I tell people my feelings they will instantly think I'm trauma dumping or telling a "sob story"
I was told the exact same thing from my mom and it absolutely crushed my soul. I see you and empathize with you.
I'm so sorry for your hurts. 💙Those statements about you were mean spirited and not true. You are a good person who endured some insensitive uncaring behavior from caregivers who didn't behave in a caring way. 🫂. Hugs to you. I hope you can fill your life with substitute surrogate family members who can show love and kindness and actually see your light and encourage you.
@ghostbooger 💙
@@bookbeing I have a good husband. We both have some 👜. It's more apparent with a child. I was told something recently by someone who would know about these things. I was told something important about how husband's sometimes work against their wives with very dependent new children. I do not feel as bad now because I know what it is. It's a story as old as the nuclear family itself
Friends of any value are hard to come by for everyone these days. Man’s rejection is God’s protection. Whatever your beliefs, it would help to write down what you would value in a friend and why, and then you can look for those traits as you meet new people, or you can even give those gifts to yourself.
I've been thinking about this recently that much of the self help stuff online is shaming. One that comes to mind is calling codependency selfish. To me that implies that it's a conscious decision rather than a subconscious survival mechanism. Is it good for you now, no. Can it negatively impact your sense of self and relationships, yes. But often it isn't a conscious process. It's your limbic system hijacking your life because it feels threatened. Real or perceived threat. It makes sense to struggle with codependency when it has literally helped you survive and feel safe. It might get in the way now of authentic connection but it's not actively selfish.
I thought people were supposed to behave codependently. I thought thats what you do when you care for someone. Its only recently Ive come to begin to know what healthy relationships look like.
@@Shortstacksandticktacks same. It's conditioning right. So many times I've seen people who self sacrifice be praised as heroes, kind, good etc and that can reinforce the narrative of codependency. This good person conditioning. If I sacrifice my own ideas, wellbeing I'll receive love, attention and be told I'm good. But deciding you are good on your own terms means others opinions affect you less. Separate what you think about someone from how they make you feel. I might think someone is cool but how do they make me feel. Maybe they make me feel dismissed, like my opinions aren't important. Sending love and healing ✌️🧡
Whenever someone tries to shame me for being "co dependant" , I re watch the still face experiment. Humans are designed to connect, at all costs.
Omg yes! And calling codependency and narcissism two sides of the same coin. Like just…stop . Also , I should probably gray rock, but I’m gonna need suggestions for a few epic clap backs to the “younger generation” attacks.
@@anwensu4381 feel you on that. I hate the way the millennials and gen z are spoken about. The sort of people who say negative things about a whole generation or 2 are just very small minded and you can't argue with stupid 😂
My parents were always allowed to make themselves victims but not me. Idk if golden children can make themselves victims. But definitely not scapegoats. My parents always told me "who cares?" And then would go on a rant about how they've had it harder than me. Or did I want a medal. Lol I could never come out to my family. I remember watching batman forever as a child and having a crush on Chris O'Donnell and Nicole Kidman. I wrote this in my diary. I wanted to marry both of them. I was like 5/6. Well of course my parents read it and sat me down to tell me at 5/6 that I'll end up in hell if I like women and it's a very bad thing/ way to be. I didn't know what I had done wrong. I had pray for a week so God would forgive me. I didn't even know what lgbt was. It was the mid 90s. I just thought Nicole Kidman was pretty lol. And the people who comment defensively are triggered because they never processed their own trauma. It's a family systems thing so it's generational trauma. Also they probably have the mentality "well I suffered so you have to suffer the same". They didn't break the cycle. That is their shame.
Also raised by religious Narc mother who used religion as a CLUB. To heck with THAT !
I wasn't honest with myself about my attraction to girls until age 14. I never talked about it before then with my parents and they're generally allies, but I was raised Catholic so my mom didn't need to be so narcissistic herself as the church taught me just how defective and evil I was for... being a human child with emotions.
@@m.maclellan7147 HECK YEAH!!!!! For me it was my stepdad that used religion for everything!! Also used it to be better than others too. Defeats the purpose of religion.......
I grew up in a very religiously abusive (among all the other types) as well and I really saw myself in your story. Btw you are awesome and I hope you are doing great now!
@@CBrown86 Thank you! I appreciate your kindness 😊! I'm sure you're awesome too and I'm sorry you can also relate 😔. I'm in the process of getting there. I only discovered this stuff like 2 yrs ago. I hope life is going great for you as well❤️~
People who stuff their stuff don’t want to hear honesty from those of us who now have found our voice. I understand what’s going on but it doesn’t make it any easier to listen to their negativity. This makes me feel extra relieved to find a safe and validating community here. Thank you!
It’s been a revelation that I was set up and forced into these roles that could then be used to demonstrate why I was ‘defective’. Like, THEY turned every dinner into a scream-fest at me, yet I was labeled the trouble maker who made it so the family couldn’t get along, even at dinner.
The constant feeling that I was in trouble or there would be an explosion of violence seemingly out of nowhere. What I know now is that I was used as the “thermostat” for regulating my family’s problems through rage, blame, abuse, sabotage and other forms of denying self esteem because if I ever “felt good about myself” I could expose some dark secrets. It wasn’t you, it was them projecting onto the things they couldn’t handle. Congratulate and celebrate yourself for walking through the fire and coming out the other side.
Im so sorry you went through that treatment.
@@tiptopdadddy I’m also sorry that you went through your experience too. I struggle with maintaining healthy “pride” as a form of self-love, because I’m conditioned to experience feeling proud of myself as a direct threat to my security.
If I’m proud of myself, it will be the first target of abuse. And if I’m not proud of myself, my lack of pride will be targeted with abuse. I’m no-good whether I love myself or hate myself- it doesn’t matter how I feel, it’s always wrong for me to feel it.
Oh god this comment hurt more than I thought it would...
“Positivity is helpful to rally somebody out of the human condition I think, but telling a trauma survivor that they should be positive and forego processing abuse is like treating cancer with a diabetes medication. It’s just off…
…we’re most likely not going to educate the general public in being less triggered and being more empathic; and these ideas are for your own healing and reclaiming your own perception of yourself, and your process that the abuse was real and it matters, and there’s nothing wrong with you for speaking your truth or seeking answers.”
Thank you for this one, Patrick.
I’ve had a lot of bad therapy I think, and was raised by two deeply traumatized people.
I’ve got a lot of problems that I’ve still maybe only just scratched the surface of, but I really needed to hear this affirmation today.
It’s dangerous to share having been victimized. People do behave as if it’s contagious and react with words or behavior what will put them on the “strong” team. They don’t want to identify with you and your perceived weakness
Regarding the idea that the survivor is simply looking to get a witness: What’s funny to me is that I often find that I most need a witness when the bad actor’s behavior should be a no brainer. I need it most during times when I shouldn’t need a witness. Why do we question and doubt ourselves? Why do we have an increased need for validation when the abusers behavior is at its most self-evident? It’s, “Please tell me that I can trust my own mind.”
So we were basically told that we can’t trust our own thoughts and feelings.
@@name5876 damn. Ouch. My empathy for your pain & the gaslighting. Wishing you peace.
@@m.maclellan7147 Thank you. ❤️
It's definitely a bad idea to share that kind of stuff with strangers online
That's not my lived experience, people only don't want to be party to your lows repeatedly especially if it's a constant focus and not showing progress.
I was accused of trying to play the victim and yet they knew I had been mugged just after work, so when I complained about leaving work late their answer was you aren't a victim anymore. Now i see they also have trauma that they do not want to address and it scares them when I talk about it.
I'm only halfway through the video but it is scary how much I relate to the scenario you laid out with "J". My dissociation and shame has gotten so bad that I'm questioning reality beyond my childhood traumas and self-gaslighting is something I've struggled with for a long time. Your videos are so incredibly validating, especially since I cannot currently afford therapy. Thank you for another very insightful video.
Crazy stuff - I relate to “magical thinking” believing various family members might become interested in a “different” more connected relationship. Even participate in healing from trauma and toxic family experiences. After multiple experiences bashing my head against that proverbial brick wall i FINALLY determined this was a hopeless fantasy. My persistence earned me a shunning framed as we aren’t interested and you have “earned our abuse/neglect.” They now drag out childhood “offenses.” Primarily I was too emotional, or demanding of parents attention. I was bad “too much” for my parents to discipline. Stories about Dad hitting/spanking me which didn’t work because that only made me “laugh.” I don’t know what that reflex was, but I recall having a reflexive impulse to respond with hysterical laugh when I was cornered and fearful about physical aggression directed at me. I’m in my 60’s and finally get that this isn’t anything I can fix and mutual support is not in their wheelhouse. Parents were very dysfunctional and have passed on. I hoped siblings would come together-mistaken again. I feel shame for being so naive. I’ve been seeking information, healing, help and connection as long as I can remember. That effort seems to irritate family and elicits contempt and defensiveness from them. The opposite of what I’m seeking. It’s a hard truth.
Another 60 year old here. That magical thinking, they are going to treat me better this time… I finally had to let go of that, last year.
We no longer need to excuse, reward, or normalize abuse we’ve experienced. And there is no shame in being naïve.
You be you. The world is a better place because you are in it.
@@dawnpokemontrainer I’m sorry you experienced this family experience and I thank you for your kind encouragement/support.❤
And another 60 yo here. 2023 is second year of no contact with mother and siblings. There comes a point where magical thinking and false hope wear themselves out. From the first lockdown, the banning of family gatherings brought such relief and joy. Decided to keep it that way. Common enemy status is all that remains, but predominantly a unwritten rule never to speak of the eldest. I do hope the empty chair remains the scapegoat and a new person won’t be selected. But there were signs that the matriarch was testing out some of the grandkids to fill the roll to see if anyone came to their defense. She will succeed, sadly. The role is too crucial to the family bonding rituals.
a 27 year old here, Thank you for sharing your experience, I also had an unexplained reflex to laugh when my abusive mom pinned me down and hit me. It's so helpful to hear that isn't just me.
@@saracullen6640 yes, glad you’re feeling better with the decision to avoid the negative family and look after your needs. Hopefully that role will go unfilled but I think of the scapegoat role as a way for unhealthy family members to avoid dealing with genuine problems by externalizing the issues in order to fool themselves into believing they are in control and capable of intimate relationships. “Cheap intimacy” is the term which describes this dynamic well. I wasn’t conscious of this but it was a well used behavior. Kind of an icky shortcut.
labelling someone with “victim mentality” CAN ironically be one way to avoid taking accountability, which is something people blame the victim for doing
Absolutely true!
I've had this kind of dismissal and 'this is how _I_ handled such and such situation' (giving off-handed advice) from so many people over the years, including well-meaning friends. It definitely creates this sense that one's own gut feeling/intuition can't be trusted and that one is 'too sensitive' and needs to just get over it b/c others are going through much worse things.
Thanks for speaking into this.
Wow, when Patrick was reading these comments I was completely terrified. I think I don't spend much time on the Internet reading comments, that's why. I remember asking for help online in 2008 when I had just got married and my parents behaved terribly toward both me and my husband. I was spending much time on one forum and asked people there what was wrong with me and how I could change the situation. A few people were blaming me and demanding to forgive my parents right on the spot (although the parents had never asked me to forgive them or apologized for anything), but the majority were horrified and advised to stay away from my nightmare of a family and live my separate life, and that's what I finally did. Thanks to these comments and one more online community about self-help I started my healing process which brought me to where I am now. People on that forum were the first ones who showed any support to me since my birth. I hope they are ok and live happily now.
As a SA survivor/C-PSTD myself, I REALLY appreciate your comment. I would be SO much healthier if I'd walked away far SOONER than I did (at age 42). It's the hardest thing to recognize that one's parent)s) are TOXIC for you--and that keeping them in your life makes it impossible to heal. But, I felt so RESPONSIBLE FOR MY MOTHER I couldn't dis-connect. I'd urge every survivor to at least TAKE A BREAK from your faily so, taht you can work on your own healing. The RELIEF of NOT being RE-TRAUMATIZED over & over again by her. Good luck on your journey. Thanks for sharing!!!
Thank you. I've always struggled with this. Especially after a school cancelor basically told me it was my fault i was getting bullied at age 13, the school and toxic friends reinforced it. And family always took strangers side.
I still really struggled with toxic shame and finding the area of accepting and acknowledging my circumstances that are not my fault and actually finding self agency and permission to move forward and get unstuck. I don't want to be a "poor me" but haven't found that balance yet of being rightful pissed off when miss treated, taking all the blame for others behaviour towards me, or "can't win no matter what i do" getting late diagnosis of asd and cptsd has helped. That bubble of "everyone else can but im never allowed, im only allowed to watch everyone live, can't live myself" is so hard to break through.
“We don’t let toxic people tell us who we are anymore.” WOW 🙌🏽
How is it that I feel so seen by a stranger than I ever have a “loved one”?? Thankful to have found this page ❤
I realised recently the gaslighting I received from the new age spiritual community as I was being accused constantly about my victim mentality. However, I noticed that when I had inner child therapy, my therapist was moving too fast on to me see my family's perspective before I even had the time to describe my feelings. I now see how uncomfortable she was feeling about me expressing how I felt. I needed more time to find the right words and to process what has happening, I wasn't ready to see my family's perspective. All that left me feeling ungrateful, weak, helpless and desperate..
A lot of people from narcissistic family systems WHO ARE ACTUALLY NARCS THEMSELVES love to defend those folks even to people who are not from their own families against scapegoats
I'm so sorry you weren't hesrd... so often my own therapy has been superficial at best... I'm 67 and have been in out of therapy since I was 15
Perfect timing. I was about to go into “water under the bridge” mode & move forward as though my past never existed. I just now realized,that would lead to more trauma by not allowing me to see perpetrators through my new rose colored glasses. I almost didn’t play this video. I’m glad I did. Thanks💝
"processing child trauma wrong" that sentence alone helps a lot
“We don’t allow toxic people to tell us who we are anymore”. @43:10
Thank you Mr. Teahan!!
I’m not so much J as I am a child of a J who put the toxic positivity bandaid on and then passed their trauma down to me. And now I’m ostracized for not doing that. “We don’t let traumatized people tell us who we are anymore”. I’ll remember that.
“We DON’T let toxic people tell us who we are anymore, or what our experience was”. LOVE THIS
I was abused by my father when I was a child and I never tell people and only recently am in therapy although I've had problems my whole life. But, just like some other people have commented, I didn't want to be seen as damaged and looked upon with pity. I only ever told one person and a couple of other people I knew found out from other of my family members. When those people found out, they looked on me with pity. I don't need pity and I'm certainly not looking for attention. But I certainly was never able to "just get over it" and move on and not have issues. I lived my entire life with zero self esteem and always feeling less than and like a failure, keeping to myself and trying to avoid conflict and confrontation. I have anxiety and have had panic attacks in the past. But of course, I should just suck it up and get over it and don't play the victim. I hate attention on me and am not good at sharing anything about myself with others. All I want now is just to feel okay, like I'm not a failure and that the way I feel now is normal. I never went to therapy before, but am seeing a therapist now. So I never processed any of this before. I'm not sure I will ever share that aspect of my life with anyone, aside from my therapist.
Whether or not you share it, I hope the child parts of you that still feel it, are able to feel loved and validated and safe and cared for. Not pity, love and support, not because you're weak or a failure but because you are a human and no child deserves abuse.
Hey dude. I'm in the same boat and I know all the dumb stuff that doesn't make you feel better, so I will say the thing that makes me feel better: your dad sucks. You seem cool.
You know what though? You shared your story here, and I bet that was probably difficult. So I think you should be proud of being brave and talking about what you went through, even if it's just a RUclips comment.
I know even typing comments i get nervous sometimes, enough that sometimes I'll wipe a whole paragraph but then end up just deleting it. So I think you're brave for writing all that.
What happened to you want ok. It was wrong and awful. So however you feel about it, that's okay. It's normal for us to feel F-ed up when F-ed up things happen to us. Your feelings are totally valid, and so is your struggle.
But it wasn't your fault. And it doesn't change your worth or your value as a person. I hope you know that
Thank you for posting this. I am 46yo. My mother/abuser just died and my family shamed me and asked me to leave her bedside when I started reading my letter to her out loud. Never before could I tell her how I was feeling because she would have slapped me across the face, and if she was calm, gotten angry and left it was my last chance I thought my sisters were my allies, but I was wrong. Not only did she take my childhood away from me and all of the love a child deserves from their mother, but she also took my siblings from me. She made sure that they all hated me before she died. Even though they’re still talking about me. I feel like I am constantly grieving a tremendous loss. Of course I moved away as soon as I grew up and started my own life that has nothing to do with any of them but when I am around other families, I remember how much I once used to love them all.
The scapegoat idea really hit home for me in this video: the toxic system really needs a person on whom they will lay all of their sin and send off into the wilderness to die (or whatever they did with the scape goat in the Old Testament...now I want to go find it to review the details). It was a way of spiritually purifying the group and atoning for their sins both collective and individual, I think.
I am a scapegoat child, and I believe you are correct! They send the goat out to the wild with all of their sins to purge themselves of said sins! BUT scapegoat children ONLY get killed alone in the WILD if they commit suicide or do too many drugs and alcohol and anything along those lines! 😮 That’s how I figure it! I know myself all my negative self thought is the voices I heard from family! BUT thanks to the internet and so many brilliant online FREE therapists I am VALIDATED and told I am many valuable and strong characteristics!
Jay Reid is another channel I follow who specializes in Scapegoated children, I got a lot of help from his insights much like PT
Trauma isn’t just acts that happened to you. It becomes your “normal and comfortable”. It’s a wiring of the brain. You will never seek better because you don’t know there is better and worse you will seek out what is familiar. It’s impossible to just change because it is wired into the neural pathways of the brain. Appropriate help is necessary to see what’s wrong.
This is so helpful as I heal from trauma and abuse while also trying to figure out how to deal with people’s criticisms and invalidation for me speaking the truth and doing the work. Thank you 🙏
Yes, if you're the truth teller in the family they all turn on ya. I refuse to pretend.
You explain it all very well. Trauma survivors seek reliable witnesses. That is true. The gaslighting around you, makes it difficult to process a trauma. People get sick being gaslighted. Family members or friends are very often not able to deal with the trauma's within their own circle. This is because they are part of the system, and they still feel some loyalty to the perpetrators. A reliable witness is someone, who is not part of your family and who is not your friend or your partner and who experienced trauma's as well.
I am very interested in your video on religious abuse; for those of us who grew up in CULTS, as well as just how many people have that "forgive and forget and move on" mindset, which to me is very Christian "turn the other cheek" type stuff. To me, itʻs borderline toxic positivity and is definitely spiritual bypassing.
Me too. Please include the culty and even milder forms of spiritual abuse, like using spirituality to get compliance or demonize your valid complaint etc etc etc
Yes please! I am here for it too. Hello fellow survivors.
Fourthing this comment. I was almost 40 when I finally left the high-demand religion I grew up in, and religious trauma has been a huge issue.
I fifth this. Daughter of an Evangelical pastor and I don’t have the strength right now to go into details other than my life has been a lot of hell on earth
“You don’t know what it’s like to have it rough at home. I couldn’t eat as a kid. You have it great and don’t know it.”
Oh, and the repentance part cracks me up. They are waiting for me to repent from my sexuality, not the other way around. Yet they hijack “Let me affirm my love for you.” This video is so relatable.
Those comments are infuriating. Thanks for being here, Patrick!
a note: the part about coming out and having the mother lash out aggressively? that was like whiplash. that's exactly what happened to me. she made it all about her, ""how could i keep a secret like this", "why didn't i tell her", the crying the "heartbreak", etc. and it's still going on, residually, with her. i knew at the time it was an insane reaction and i had only been forced to come out because of an argument with an equally abusive father. now that i've been researching what i've been through, i know my mother has some textbook traits of narcissism, and this is one of them.
Right?
It's like "hey, so here's this new thing that I discovered about myself that was previously unknown or unrealized, even to me"
"How could you keep that from me? Why didn't you tell me?"
Um maybe because I didn't freaking know! I didn't know how to walk when I was born either. Are you gonna get upset that I was keeping my ability to walk a secret for my first 2 years of life too?
So stupid.
"I've seen things you people wouldn't believe ..." always comes to mind. People speaking from a place of privilege have no idea the harm they are capable of. I have no problem showing them.
And yet we’d never do to others the harm that’s been done to us.
Blade Runner rules and so do you.
They wouldn't say it to a war vet with PTSD. They can't understand those with C-PTSD, but that doesn't make what happened any less real or harmful.
Once again, you nailed it! The nuances are so hard to sort out and it's SO complicated. Thank you for validating us! Thank you for authenticity! Nothing has made me feel safer and more understood than your content. These videos mean the world to me, thank you! 💜💯
Totally agree!! I always feel seen!! Just incredible!!
This helped me a lot. I was still feeling weird about a friend of mine who told me I just wanted to be a victim.
They themselves are hurting and didn't want to be reminded of it. Instead of saying that to me they chose to hurt me.
I don't feel animosity. Just sad.
I'll be ok.
Thank you.
Similar thing happened to me. I eventually got to the point where I was able to think of it like "Wow, you threw away our 16+ year friendship so you wouldn't feel rejected by a group of toxic people. That's so sad." I can only feel pity for them.
Patrick, your channel is a safe haven. Thank you for sharing your wisdom, and empathy.
The negative comments is why I shut down long before the internet abuse perpetuated the ability to lesson someone's pain. I have lived in hell alone over 25 years because of people and that " shut up and stop acting like a victim" bs 😢 bless you for sharing your education and experience
Jeez. You described about 90% of my childhood. That was very strange to hear third hand. Even the high achieving but passively suicidal. Mother threatening suicide. Family avoids upsetting mother. Lost brother. Golden sister. Only there was a constant dichotomy with me, I was either 100% the worst kid (selfish, ungrateful) or 100% the best (what would my life be without you, you’re so wonderful). I’m so glad to have sought mental health help, even if i am only just now really realizing how messed up childhood was.
This for real got me in the guts. Thank you for this.
best and worst child I also get a lot .-.
Aside from having siblings, you described my childhood better than I could have. The constant "dichotomy" (that's an awesome word btw) always and still does make me feel like I'm crazy, like I'm definitely the problem and I'm just imagining the abuse or being dramatic. Thank you for putting my experience in words!!❤
@@thecatthatcameback I’m sorry you dealt with this too! It’s such a weird situation, and so hard to reconcile as you grow through it. Wishing you healing and happiness!
This helped me understand my origin family system so well. I am finally cutting ties with a toxic mother. I am struggling with my relationship with my siblings who are also processing the abuse or are willingly ignoring it or have become abusers. I am getting further along in my healing process and your videos are so helpful in getting a pulse check. I realized I could talk about these issues with many coworkers and friends as most can relate either personally or another friend/family member. I have worked really hard this past year after my dad died on my childhood trauma. So much is so clear to me now, and I finally feel like my inner adult can take over and be there for my inner child. I feel like I have spent the first part of my life raising myself and now I finally feel a shift that I have done it and can now relax. I have spent time building new support systems and have never felt so confident.
Thank you 🙏😊
It’s very interesting that “being a victim” is seen as something the person chose. A victim is a person who was harmed due to the action of others - hurt externally. So… 1) super weird that people are blamed for something someone else did 2) super weird that people view it as a personal problem and bad to be when the person did not do it to themselves.
I understand the mindset of not being negative all the time because you can get stuck thinking that things won’t get better; however, that’s not being a victim. That’s being pessimistic (or paranoid in some cases).
If you got hit with a bottle that was thrown across the room from a fight you weren’t a part of, you were a victim of that person. A reasonable person would not blame you for being caught in cross fire of a rogue bottle.
They could say “why go to rooms where people fight a lot if you don’t want to get hit with a bottle?“ well, regardless, you got hit and need medical attention lol You can just say you got hit with a bottle and not blame yourself for it because you didn’t throw the bottle. What happened happened, now you have to heal.
I really like you Patrick. You speak a language my heart needs to hear. May you be filled with loving kindness 😊
One of the first therapists I opened up to said, "You seem very victim." I thought for a second then said, "Yes. I am a victim of abuse. Because of that I have trauma. That's why I'm in therapy. To heal from the trauma."
After that he pretty much told me he didn't know how to help me heal from trauma, so I got a new therapist.
So many people want us to just have this inspirational survivor story, and they want us to have that story immediately. We aren't their inspiration porn.
Wow… I’ve never felt so overwhelmingly validated. I’ll have to listen again later. There were quite a few times Patrick’s voice was drowned out by my repeated cries of, “Oh my gawd, yes!”
Thank you so much for this video. 🖤
I realized that I do have a tendency to be a victim to gain compassion. I've been through a lot but you made me realize that I can take care of myself, heal myself and take control of my life. Thank you so much
Only 11 minutes in so far and this is brilliant already. Yes, this is EXACTLY how it happens. Sad to say, the student-services counsellor scenario is pretty accurate to my experience, complete with the stupid mindfulness handout. Edit: Finished! One of your best videos ever. I especially found the “Root Cause” section to be powerful.
Right? And far too often folks in J scenario don't make it past that student counselor, they can't cope and end it. Don't know why they are allowed to practice with such harmful "solutions".
Patrick: We were raised by toxic people. This means we learned some bad habits from them. It means we do some of the things to others that they did to us. At the same time we want to be better, to treat others better than we were treated, but we don't have the skills, knowledge and self-awareness to navigate friendships, work relationships, and daily life. We are very conflicted people. We don't know how to tell when we are abusing and when we are being abused. We oscillate make and forth between two extremes: it is my fault on the one side and it was done to me on the other side. This creates an inner state of confusion that makes getting healthy so much more complicated than it should be. We are our parents and we are desperately trying not to be our parents. If we blame our parents and siblings, we are doing what our parents and siblings did to us. They blamed us. It is very hard to be sure you are right about the abuse you experienced. It is very hard to say I was a victim. Ultimately, we must realize we are all victims. Our parents were victims, but I can't save them. I can only save myself. Once we admit it and understand how the way we were treated created a messed up person, we can stop blaming ourselves and begin to be better to others. We have to fix ourselves first which means admitting we were victims.
I have felt shame for disliking my family and not feeling that magical "family is everything" feeling since I was a tween. I absolutely knew I was being abused and scapegoated, but every time I thought about it, I "realized" I was playing the victim. I stopped testing and trying, and almost completely disconnected from my dad's side of the family as soon as I got a car. I just haven't been part of my family. I got kicked out of his house for "financial reasons" at 18, and by the time I went no contact at 24, everyone but my mom got pretty used to not seeing me. It's been a year of no contact, and it's hard to feel guilty, because I'm 99% sure my dad doesn't even miss me, but I'm still afraid other people will judge me. In my eyes, I cut off a relationship that never really existed, so it doesn't feel extreme at all, but to other people it might seem really drastic. I just couldn't connect with them, even when I tried my best, and now that I'm an adult, as sad as it is, I know I'm never gonna get that connection. So cheers to giving up every now and again! Lol
So you’ve met my family.
I had a psychiatrist tell me to get over it, laugh in my face and even rage at me when I explained my family situation. Couldn’t understand why I struggled so much with depression, anxiety, C-PTSD and hyper-vigilance so badly after years of living away from them. He got even more upset when I told him that the talk therapy made me worse for a while. He made me feel like it was because I was doing something wrong and made me feel like I was a drug addict when I asked about medications, and used my family’s history of drug use against me like he was judging me for what THEY did.
Wow! Now I know how my Adult child feels concerning me invalidating his feelings from his childhood trauma! It was put on me as well pull yourself up by your boot straps and get over it. Thank you for your expertise and wisdom
This one hits home. My brother recently said stuff like this to me: "your fascination with narcissism is unhealthy", "continuing to focus on these issues keeps you in victim mode" etc. At the time I didn't really understand why it was so upsetting. But after watching this video I understand that the upsetting part is the fact that he is implying that I am making a choice to "cry about it" and make it the focus of my existence as if he is above that somehow. THAT's the part that is so offensive. So what do we do about these relatives? Do we just stop talking to them?
Talk to them about the weather and baseball but nothing personal. Ever. This really is your only choice to stay safe from someone who refuses to see you.
Oh boy! While triggering, I am also seeing that the more my healing and understanding develops the more I have zero time for these unsafe or half-safe people... It's like nope, don't need that don't want that in my life!
I experienced all of the above when it came to family,friends,therapist’s,spiritual counselor’s, Al-Anon. “Keep Coming Back It Works”. 😮
It wasn’t working. I still go because I find that there is still humanity there.
However, I’m aware I can stick myself with what I’ve been comfortable with over the years.
The people I gravitate to are people LIKE MY TOXIC FAMILY SYSTEM! What the what!
Yeah, so thank you for this Dr.
I have to be very CAREFUL and select healthy individuals for my mental health. It’s tricky.
Yayee I’m not crazy or selfish!!!!
Positivity was the worst thing that ever happened over the course of my life. I grew up with a mix of violence and toxic positivity. In my experience, positivity enables and encourages violence.
Great video and understanding
I see abusive people as the ones with victim mentality or playing victim: everything is someone else's fault and they made them do it
This is different from victims-survivors who are not abusing others but dealing with the abuse others have inflicted on them and has been internalized.
Correcting the abuser's narrative and making them accountable for their actions doesn't mean not taking responsibility for your own. It mean you stop taking responsibility, blame and shame that belongs to someone else
It's truly a difficult journey to healing bc like you very well demonstrate, even outside of the original abusive environment, you are constantly bombarded with the same abuse enabling and victim blaming narrative in society and other institutions or relationships
I think it's crucial to acknowledge we are receiving those messages. They are not true but we are receiving them, we are living in environments that think like this and treats you accordingly which is not ok
A year into therapy, my therapist asked me, "Do you often feel like the victim?" And I just about lost my mind at her. I thought about finding a new therapist.
When I came around, I saw what she was actually getting at. Even though I /was/ a victim during childhood, I couldn't see that it was no longer happening in my present. She talked to me about having a "survivor" mindset, that didn't invalidate my experiences and feelings, but gave me more personal power and room to grow.
It’s all part of the healing process! Where to begin how to manage it and how do YOU want it to end?
Therapist defending the mother and Asking Jay to see positivism = me internally screaming and wishing to scratch my face off 🙃
Why are you describing my situation in such detail. It’s very spot on- down to me seeking help from a therapist and being told get over it. I struggled for so long, and moved away alone to allow my healing. I’m in a much better place but still healing and learning to allow my space, set boundaries, affirm myself because I feel so alone in my journey. My family of origin support system sucks lol I am my support system and I’m praying to break these generational curses to create a new foundation for my future self and children. I know one day I will succeed and be exactly where I want to be, and I won’t be stressed or held back over all the trauma I overcame.
OMG J Doe's family sounds just like mine! It's almost creepy!
Patrick, You are the gift that keeps on giving. My “Yoda”…Jungian therapist passed away after my 2 1/2 yrs of weekly sessions. I found you about a yr ago & have found comfort in your wisdom. I have recently found a new kind & wonderful therapist & recommended he check out your channel & he thanked me for rec. Thank you for being such a gifted therapist. 🥰
That Student Services “therapist” in the example was a piece of work!
This is the most powerful piece that dives deep into the psychology of a victim-blaming mindset. It's a shame there ain't enough content online like this. In my humble opinion, this video should be properly titled as "Dismantling The Victim-Blaming Mindset".
You hit on something when you talked about what I call stuffing your feelings. I grew up around and knowing many people of the WW2 or children of the depression era people and what they all had in common was this stuffing.
They'd take a hit and not talk about it. They acted like everything was fine. It wasn't, but they locked themselves into that mind set. They often smoked, some drank, even to excess and had few children. Some of my great Uncles had no children at all. They were married, but refused to have children(mom's side). My fahter's side uncles also, took it even further and didn't have any children at all, nor ever married. They came from large families and lived through the depression as children. Sooo, history lesson, but hopefully you see the pattern. Some things were hush hush, other things were kind of gossipy in the family of my maternal origin.
I've seen various therapists, but your videos are the first time I've heard a message that truly makes sense. Thank you for your work.
So triggering but so helpful. I’ve decided to stop “testing” my family and former friends and just working towards my healing alone (with my therapist) for the moment.
Thank you so much for this video. There are too many enablers around online or undiagnosed disordered people telling people they have a victim mentality while completely misusing the term.