I think the trick is making it so we can feel like there was a definitive end while also leaving a bit of wiggle room for interpretation. Personally I think FF7 and FF10 end pretty definitively, but I’m always on board to hear alternate takes, and many of them are valid. Part of why Inception can be frustrating (even though I love it) is that it’s *too* ambiguous. It’s very hard to form a clear opinion on what happened, so you have to go with “it doesn’t matter” to find any kind of meaning.
I feel like I should say that while stories can be ambiguous that doesn't mean that all should be like that. There is this constantly growing idea that there is no right or wrong or that there should be more grey in stories and I definitely don't agree with that entirely. Stories enable us to examine an events/courses of action and make judgements on whether he or she was right or wrong to do that. Judging a fictional character takes the criticism off us so we can be more objective. We are also meant to put ourselves in a characters shoes or to recognize certain behaviors in characters that we may have. This starts a conversation that can help us to make informed choices with our own lives. We all want a happy ending and don't want to have a tragic one so these endings give a statement saying if you do this you will get this ending. This is why good and evil/right or wrong is important. Sometimes though the story is more a message on what the author believes is right or wrong and can narrate that. I haven't read the Lord of the Rings novels but The Hobbit does that making it very clear what the message of the story is and it is still profound.
At best, ambiguity encourages engagement with the art and introspection within ourselves. At worse, its a cop out designed as a get out of jail free card. But if you want genuine mystery sir, I say; David Cage. Not his work, but the fact he keeps getting work. Philosophers can't figure it out. Theologians can't figure it out. And the last time scientists had a crack at it, well . . . You seen Event Horizon?
I hate ambiguous endings when there's not enough clues in the movie, game or book to think ourselves "this is what happened". ingeneral I kinda dislike ambiguity, I like to know "the canonical story that actually happened is this", even if it's a mistery and you have to figure it out yourself, but when you do it's clear.
Wow. You blew it out of the park. I have a daughter around that age and I've been thinking among the same lines of her discoveries, but the way you put it is amazing. Thank you so much for making this vid
Games with ambiguous ends are games that feel the most like life. Life doesn't give you closure. It might be nice to have if you're looking for escapism, but in the end dealing with unclear and unfinished things is the majority of living.
Wow. Thank you so much for making this video, man! Seriously, I think every creative storyteller needs to see this and really let it sink in. I learned so much, not only about my life, but also about what it means to be human. THANK YOU =)
Really beautiful video!!!! I like ambiguous endings because of how you're left to interpret it and what happens after yourself. Also part of why i like when games have multiple endings, makes it feel like the world of the game isn't set in stone, and that anything could happen
The eagles didn't because they were no match for the black riders' fell beasts. Great winged dragon-like beasts that while Sauron was still ascendant were fast enough to out pace the eagles and a single one was ferocious and strong enough to slay every single eagle that Manwe lent to Gandalf.
As I get older, I too appreciate ambiguous endings more and more. They make me keep thinking about the game even after I've seen everything that can be seen in it. It makes me visit fansites, watch theory videos... even read essays sometimes. Just to see if I can learn something new about the game. For example, when I first played FFVII, I was really weirded out by the ending. It's left... so open xD But now I'm glad they did that (not counting advent children here). I'm glad that I never feel "done" with that game, and that it has kept people speculating throughout the years.
Great job Casen! I'll never forget the day I finished the Monster anime. That anime ended on such a strange note I just sat there like "WHAT. That can't be the end!" But what that did was it made me seek out more answers. Why did they end it this way? What more did this show have to teach me? So in its own way, it actually made me extend my own experience of the show simply by rewatching sections, watching discussion videos and things online, and talking with other people about it. I feel like there's something about that slightly dissonant note in a beautiful chord that makes us want to ask questions and feel like there's something deeper to be found.
Inception's ending is like a zen koan / riddle. The top both keeps spinning and stops - signifying that the dream both continues and ends. How so? In the meta. This simultaneous duality occurs in the audience - either you exit the dream (the film, or other 'rabbit holes' such as past or future rumination) and become present with yourself, your friends and loved ones like Cobb - or you go deeper into the rabbit hole and struggle with the dream (rewatch the film etc), losing your attention to the infinite of inner space while shirking the peace of the present moment with your loved ones. What's important - the top, or Cobb's children? Cobb makes his choice. The film is the top, and film stops spinning as soon as we cut to black. Its our turn to make our choice. We each decide for ourselves to keep the dream spinning...or focus on whats truly important to us.
A note on a side point: yes, historically, assuming the unfamiliar is bad leads to better survival rates (among adults - for babies and young children, curiosity is essential) than embracing the unknown, the reverse is true for the group - while it went badly for most individuals who tried making friends with a dangerous predator, some tribes ended up with dogs. It's like genetic mutation - the vast majority of genetic mutations are bad for the individual who carries them, but with no mutation, we'd still be interesting chemical soup, not even cellular organisms, let alone complex multi-cellular beings...
I was a lot like that when I was younger. For example, new video games. I remember whenever I got a new game, I'd spent a lot of time just examining every inch of the box art; every drawing within the manual. I was too curious to put it down. When I get a new system, I just examine and admire every part of it; of the controller, the accessories etc. Now I just boot up the game and play :/
I still like to examine new stuff at least a little. A lot of the childhood curiosity is gone though. It would help if they actually brought back detailed manuals.
Truly one of your best works on this channel. I'm proud to be a patron, and to support you how I can. I adore your videos, and this was one that brought on a flood of emotion. Thank you for doing what you do. Peace and love. :)
Great video Casen. I do feel whether an ambiguous ending in a video game should be used is based on what kind of story is being told. If the story being told is extremely character driven (FF9 is ALL about each character and their journey through adversity) then a well wrapped up ending makes sense to give us conclusions and see the end of the advertsity, but if the game is more about the whole world and not just one person (FF7 is really about the Planet and it's journey) then an open ended ending fits because it's really about the lessons the world is teaching us. open ended works for Inception, the whole concept of dreams fits the theme of the ending. But if they used an open ended ending in Harry Potter, and we didn't know whether Harry or Voldemort won, it would be a travesty. That's because Inception is theme/world driven and Harry Potter is much more character driven. I think people get most upset when an ambigoius ended is implemented in a heavily character driven story.
I hate most ambiguous endings. They're so fucking lazy. They don't cause introspection or anything profound, they just make me think "Well here's story #457 of this year with the same exact ambiguous ending because apparently no one knows how to finish a damned story anymore." You talk about them as though they're so rare and amazing, but I feel like half or more of all media I consume has an unresolved ending, because actually resolving things isn't as "artistic" or whatever. To give a video game example, the ending to 999 was way more profound, awesome and chaotic and complete than the nothingness that is your average vague video game ending. Or something like To The Moon, where the entire game, the very concept of the story is what gets you thinking, it doesn't need a cop-out dipshit ambiguous ending to get you really contemplating the morality of changing someone's memories as they die, even at their own request. Was it fair to River to have John's memories of his life altered? It may have been more what he "wanted," but at what cost? No, really, at what cost? Does it even matter? He's dying. Is there even anything to care *about*? The entire concept is fascinating and a little sad, a little distressing. And it's different, it's a story I hadn't considered before, and I loved it, because I absolutely love new stories. That isn't to say vague endings can't be good, of course they can. But when it clearly doesn't fit (and it almost always doesn't) and then gets excused as high art because they didn't explain anything... well, that's awful.
I can see your point, but I don't think ambiguous endings are as common as you say they are. Most things I've seen have definitive endings (unless there is going to be a sequel). Maybe the stuff we've seen has been very different with no overlap, but I really don't think that ambiguity is that common.
@@greggeverman5578I think it's a matter of being over-exposed to either type of ending. In general, though, I prefer for each part of the story to be just as fleshed out and complete as the beginning. Now, if you're going for some avant-garde shit and have the entire story be ambiguous, that's something different and it makes a lot more sense. I just think for me personally at this point, I expect like 80% of the media I consume to have an ambiguous ending that'll make me groan and roll my eyes as yet another artist thinks they're being unique or deep as they fail to write a satisfactory conclusion to their tale.
Final Fantasy X's ending is so, so beautiful, christ. I started crying as soon as you've shown Tidus junping again. I always took it as deeply gratitude from the spirits he sees, and acceptance from his part of his father.
We are generally moving away from stories with defined “good and bad” tropes, and I’m happy about that. There is nothing thought-provoking about good guy beating bad guy and everyone is happy- hurray. Why did games such as Bioshock Infinite and The Last of Us cause so much widespread discussion (and acclaim)? For Infinite, the ending was very bitter and a bit open-ended. In TLoU the hero just about turns into an antagonist, but for a reason that was very believable. Shows like Westworld and Game of Thrones are proof that people don’t just want a story where John Wayne saves the town and rides off into the sunset. Most of the remaining main characters in GoT could end up dying before the finale and we would likely celebrate that.
I'm not saying game stories have to be structured or themed in any one particular way to be good or memorable. My all-time favorite game is Final Fantasy 7, and its ending, though much more complex and nuanced when really examined, is still pretty clear and morally black & white. The good guys win and the world is saved. But I also appreciate stories like The Last of Us and Nier: Automata which are morally ambiguous and compel discussion between peers. My only point was there is no one way to tell a great narrative, unlike what this video's author says. He claims that our brains want a clear-cut good vs evil story that gets resolved in a cliche way, but I don't think that's true. It doesn't mean those kinds of stories aren't good, but that's not the ONLY way to tell a good story.
Personally I really like ambiguous endings like Inception or Pan's Labyrinth, not everything should have a bow put on it in the end. Those two specifically whenever they come up in conversation you've got an A+ discussion topic for the next 20min. It certainly can be unsettling having dots unconnected, but it's nice to have in industries where the board strokes of most film or written stories are fairly predictable, I welcome anything that turns tropes or expectations on their heads. Disrupting expectations is why I liked The Last Jedi (there I said it aloud on the internet *duck and cover*) we all had this image of Luke after Jedi and the hero we thought we knew was still boarder line willing to kill an evil family member. Our new protagonist is someone willing to dive head first into the dark side and our antagonist is tempted by the Light, I thought I was going to get one thing and I got something else, and I love that.
While the evolutionary psychology you reference is doubtless true for humans on average, there's a lot of individual differences in how we tolerate ambiguity (it pays for some animals to explore the unknown more and find new niches) which feeds into individual differences in people's reactions to ambiguous media (and how willing people are to tolerate predictable stories). There are dangers to ambiguous story endings. It can feel cheap, like the writer is shirking their job, we can always imagine a story for ourselves (what we do when we complete an ambiguous story) but the writer is being paid to do some of that imagination for us so if they give us something ambiguous it can feel like they didn't do their job. If they give us an unusual thought provoking stimuli for our own imagination, that we wouldn't have come up with ourselves, that doesn't apply. We can always think about some aspects of a story, if the story is too ambiguous about basic things then those speculations about more interesting details may not be able to happen.
If you want to understanding the ending to Inception, you should probably go back to high school and read Odyssey and look up the portion about Ariadne. It includes things like... architects and a labyrinth. It's clear what her role, who the master architect is, and why she picked up the building so swiftly.
Big difference in Eastern and Western culture as well. Stories were much more likely to not give you all the answers in Eastern media, while Western stories always had to have a concrete ending. FF10 is an example of an AMAZING ending, but Western audiences fussed enough that we got X2... yayyyyy. That said, my original favorite, (and first) ff8, is a great example of the other side of this coin, where the game was divisive for both cultures. I can soundly say it's not even close to my favorite anymore. I find that fascinating though, we are now accessing mediums that belonged to different cultures and the way it "resonates" (hehe) with us all happens in so many unintended ways. Fun stuff.
To answer your confusion about the eagles from The Lord of the Rings... 1. They don't even have any desire to get involved. 2. They would be seen from miles away and eviscerated in the blink of an eye by either Orc archers, Nazgûl riders, or even the Eye of Sauron itself. Attempting that kind of direct route from the air would be suicide. There is no chance they would succeed.
I'm convinced that Cobb's kids were his token in Inception, not the top, which was his wife's. I read that theory online and then watched the movie with that in mind. In the very first scene, where he washes up on the beach, he sees his kids but they run off before he can see their faces. He later explains that he can never see their faces when bringing up that memory because he didn't see them at the time. He sees them at some point in every dream level. In the final scene, his kids turn toward him and it even goes to slow motion as he sees their faces. The top is a red herring. Anyway, great video.
You should really try an anime called Devilman Crybaby on Netflix which has a very unresolved ending and yet it could not end any other way. It really changed my way of thinking.
Final Fantasy VII's ending might be, all things considered, one of the strongest pro-ecological statements of all time and I can appreciate and respect it for that. Also, Madoka Magica's ending was perfect and anything after it is Shinbo's and Urobuchi's way of getting back at rabid fans who were angry about the series, just like The End of Evangelion was Anno's and Metal Gear Solid 4 was Kojima's.
I’m personally not a huge fan of ambiguous endings (likely because, as you said, ambiguity is chaos for the mind), but this was a really enjoyable and understandable video. Five stars for stellar editing and adorable baby~
Why the fuck do your videos not get more views? Your content is amazing. I may not like all of it, but I recognize your hard work and admire the effort behind every video. Bravo~
Good timing with the ending of Westworld season 2 haha BTW, FF8 has my favorite ending (and opening) of any video game. Part of that is its creepy ambiguity but also the way it flows with the music.
Leaving some stuff up to the imagination is always good. You get to make your own scenario in you head of what happens in the aftermath the ending. FF8 on the other hand was a little too open ended. Maybe the fan theories confused me more than the actual ending.
It only seemed that way to me the first time I beat FF8, and that was because I forgot to sit through the credits until that after-credits scene, gave me a totally different impression of the ending than in following playthroughs. lol
It was happy ending which all plays out on a hand cam during the credits or are you talking about all the weird stuff before that. The producers squashed many fan theories in the last few years
Great job! My youngest just turned one. It is an amazing time. They are sponges for information. I teach science and I always use my kids as an example on how all humans are innately scientific in how we learn.
That was incredibly well put together and delivered Casen! Challenging our way of thinking helps us think, imagine, discover, learn and understand more. You def lived up to when u said in the recent podcast that ud make a video about ambiguity and binary thought processing.
I think there needs to be a distinction between "ambiguous ending" and "no ending." The former leaves openings for the audience to fill on their own, whereas the latter is poor storytelling. There's a particularly bad trend with certain media that expect to become a franchise and "ambitiously" conclude on a satisfaction-devoid cliffhanger. That's not a conclusion, that's an incomplete story. At least have the decency to end on at least some note of finality - a task complete, a challenge overcome, a "mid-boss" fight - even if that note leads to "and so the journey continues", we don't feel like our time has been wasted.
There is not a better feeling than watching a movie or playing a game where the ending make us think about it for a long time. When the media you consume is not forgotten 5 minutes after experiencing it. Oh, thats why The Last Jedi is a great film, btw.
Subverting expectations =/= a good movie. When I look back on The Last Jedi, I can only think about how terrible it was and how it killed the Sequel Trilogy.
WackySwacky As the Last Jedi still raises fire and analysis while nobody ever talk about The Force Awaken anymore, is the proof of success any film maker would ever want. Talk about good or badly, but do talk about it.
The act of merely talking about a film does not make it great. By that logic, The Room is also a great film, which it objectively is not. People still talk about The Last Jedi because it is apart of an as-of-yet unfinished and on-going trilogy, and the fact that it is a STAR WARS movie no less. It was going to be talked about regardless. The only reason people still bring it up in conversations is to point out how it killed off any hype for Episode IX and also kinda ruined the Sequel Trilogy with it's "subverting expectations by destroying everything" retarded logic. The ultimate goal of a filmmaker IS NOT to just create something "controversial", because that shit is just cheap. Only assholes think films should be like that.
Not talking about good or bad. Just about being remembered. Still i had a few good times with the Last Jedi, mostly visuals id admit, but as im not as a big fan of SW i couldnt not care less about a few error only purist cares about PS: Episode 9 will still be a sucess, mostly because fans will make publicity for it, good or bad, it'll be talked about for sure... and many months prior the release. Star Wars fans are too predictable at this point.
yes, there is a better feeling: knowing exactly what happened in a story. I hate ambiguity and having to imagine myself the rest of the story or the ending. if I wanted to do that I would write my own story. if I watch a movie, read a book or play a game I want to know "this is what happened, it's official, it's canon, this is the real story". oh, and the last jedi is horrible and it killed star wars, it did more damage than the prequels. at least the prequels were made by the creator of the thing, he had the right to do whatever he wanted with the story and characters. disney didn't have the right!.
Ambiguity in games is often just a heavily obscured through line. Take the original four Silent Hill games, which are the most misunderstood titles in gaming history. It wasn't because they were ambiguous, they simply required more from the audience. FFX's ending was not ambiguous either. I insist that VIII and VII had ambiguous endings, but I found that the evidence supports them simply being ambitious for the medium. Ambiguity in a medium is when the creator them self doesn't know what the story is about. I can think of only a couple titles that are truly ambiguous. Angel's Egg, for example.
"Not at all the way that we thought it should have gone" Oooooooh boy, well, I'm gonna have to COMPLETELY disagree on that one. Not everything went the way I expected it to go, (except for Luke... He was pretty much exactly how I expected him to be and I'm still surprised people were really THAT taken back by it) however the film went the way that I believe it needed to have gone and should have.
If a story is well written, i.e., the resolution of the story being told occurs, then an ambiguous ending or denouement works. Otherwise, it's just a cheap trick bad writers employ to appear deeper than they are. Nolan has written ambiguous stories his entire life. The fact that Inception's ending is so hotly contested speaks more towards that film being J.J. Abrams film stock with pretentious airs than anything else.
I'm still of the opinion that ambiguous and open ended story telling is usually just a cheap way of trying to add depth when you don't know how to conclude the tale you want to tell. A narrative cop out to act like your story is deeper than it really is. Very rarely have I seen it done well or in a way that's even a little satisfying, and I would personally not count Journey or FFX among them (The sequel didn't help though).
I love when the dudes bring up a concept on a podcast then say “I should make a show about this” then we see it a week or so later. 👌 🔥
I think the trick is making it so we can feel like there was a definitive end while also leaving a bit of wiggle room for interpretation. Personally I think FF7 and FF10 end pretty definitively, but I’m always on board to hear alternate takes, and many of them are valid. Part of why Inception can be frustrating (even though I love it) is that it’s *too* ambiguous. It’s very hard to form a clear opinion on what happened, so you have to go with “it doesn’t matter” to find any kind of meaning.
I feel like I should say that while stories can be ambiguous that doesn't mean that all should be like that. There is this constantly growing idea that there is no right or wrong or that there should be more grey in stories and I definitely don't agree with that entirely. Stories enable us to examine an events/courses of action and make judgements on whether he or she was right or wrong to do that. Judging a fictional character takes the criticism off us so we can be more objective. We are also meant to put ourselves in a characters shoes or to recognize certain behaviors in characters that we may have. This starts a conversation that can help us to make informed choices with our own lives. We all want a happy ending and don't want to have a tragic one so these endings give a statement saying if you do this you will get this ending. This is why good and evil/right or wrong is important. Sometimes though the story is more a message on what the author believes is right or wrong and can narrate that. I haven't read the Lord of the Rings novels but The Hobbit does that making it very clear what the message of the story is and it is still profound.
that was an epic vid and i never ever comment, well done
At best, ambiguity encourages engagement with the art and introspection within ourselves. At worse, its a cop out designed as a get out of jail free card.
But if you want genuine mystery sir, I say; David Cage. Not his work, but the fact he keeps getting work. Philosophers can't figure it out. Theologians can't figure it out. And the last time scientists had a crack at it, well . . .
You seen Event Horizon?
Maybe we'll figure it out if we let him make 3 or 4 more games.
Liberate, Tute me, David Cage
And no, that's not the correct Latin
I hate ambiguous endings when there's not enough clues in the movie, game or book to think ourselves "this is what happened". ingeneral I kinda dislike ambiguity, I like to know "the canonical story that actually happened is this", even if it's a mistery and you have to figure it out yourself, but when you do it's clear.
Wow. You blew it out of the park. I have a daughter around that age and I've been thinking among the same lines of her discoveries, but the way you put it is amazing. Thank you so much for making this vid
Games with ambiguous ends are games that feel the most like life. Life doesn't give you closure. It might be nice to have if you're looking for escapism, but in the end dealing with unclear and unfinished things is the majority of living.
Awwww your daughter is adorable :3
Wow. Thank you so much for making this video, man! Seriously, I think every creative storyteller needs to see this and really let it sink in. I learned so much, not only about my life, but also about what it means to be human. THANK YOU =)
This is the best channel on RUclips! So much info in such a short time! Your daughter is amazing! My daughter just turned 2!
Beautiful video Cassen, i cant stop crying, buckets of tears
Really beautiful video!!!! I like ambiguous endings because of how you're left to interpret it and what happens after yourself. Also part of why i like when games have multiple endings, makes it feel like the world of the game isn't set in stone, and that anything could happen
Man, these exploratory videos are really great
The eagles didn't because they were no match for the black riders' fell beasts. Great winged dragon-like beasts that while Sauron was still ascendant were fast enough to out pace the eagles and a single one was ferocious and strong enough to slay every single eagle that Manwe lent to Gandalf.
As I get older, I too appreciate ambiguous endings more and more. They make me keep thinking about the game even after I've seen everything that can be seen in it. It makes me visit fansites, watch theory videos... even read essays sometimes. Just to see if I can learn something new about the game.
For example, when I first played FFVII, I was really weirded out by the ending. It's left... so open xD But now I'm glad they did that (not counting advent children here). I'm glad that I never feel "done" with that game, and that it has kept people speculating throughout the years.
Great job Casen! I'll never forget the day I finished the Monster anime. That anime ended on such a strange note I just sat there like "WHAT. That can't be the end!" But what that did was it made me seek out more answers. Why did they end it this way? What more did this show have to teach me? So in its own way, it actually made me extend my own experience of the show simply by rewatching sections, watching discussion videos and things online, and talking with other people about it.
I feel like there's something about that slightly dissonant note in a beautiful chord that makes us want to ask questions and feel like there's something deeper to be found.
Inception's ending is like a zen koan / riddle. The top both keeps spinning and stops - signifying that the dream both continues and ends. How so? In the meta. This simultaneous duality occurs in the audience - either you exit the dream (the film, or other 'rabbit holes' such as past or future rumination) and become present with yourself, your friends and loved ones like Cobb - or you go deeper into the rabbit hole and struggle with the dream (rewatch the film etc), losing your attention to the infinite of inner space while shirking the peace of the present moment with your loved ones. What's important - the top, or Cobb's children? Cobb makes his choice. The film is the top, and film stops spinning as soon as we cut to black. Its our turn to make our choice. We each decide for ourselves to keep the dream spinning...or focus on whats truly important to us.
Yo, your sense of humor in this video is great. Laughed my ass off and learned something too. Great stuff guys.
A note on a side point: yes, historically, assuming the unfamiliar is bad leads to better survival rates (among adults - for babies and young children, curiosity is essential) than embracing the unknown, the reverse is true for the group - while it went badly for most individuals who tried making friends with a dangerous predator, some tribes ended up with dogs. It's like genetic mutation - the vast majority of genetic mutations are bad for the individual who carries them, but with no mutation, we'd still be interesting chemical soup, not even cellular organisms, let alone complex multi-cellular beings...
I was a lot like that when I was younger. For example, new video games. I remember whenever I got a new game, I'd spent a lot of time just examining every inch of the box art; every drawing within the manual. I was too curious to put it down. When I get a new system, I just examine and admire every part of it; of the controller, the accessories etc. Now I just boot up the game and play :/
I still like to examine new stuff at least a little. A lot of the childhood curiosity is gone though. It would help if they actually brought back detailed manuals.
That FFIX ending was great. Definitely one of the best FF endings.
Truly one of your best works on this channel. I'm proud to be a patron, and to support you how I can. I adore your videos, and this was one that brought on a flood of emotion. Thank you for doing what you do. Peace and love. :)
Great video Casen. I do feel whether an ambiguous ending in a video game should be used is based on what kind of story is being told. If the story being told is extremely character driven (FF9 is ALL about each character and their journey through adversity) then a well wrapped up ending makes sense to give us conclusions and see the end of the advertsity, but if the game is more about the whole world and not just one person (FF7 is really about the Planet and it's journey) then an open ended ending fits because it's really about the lessons the world is teaching us.
open ended works for Inception, the whole concept of dreams fits the theme of the ending. But if they used an open ended ending in Harry Potter, and we didn't know whether Harry or Voldemort won, it would be a travesty. That's because Inception is theme/world driven and Harry Potter is much more character driven.
I think people get most upset when an ambigoius ended is implemented in a heavily character driven story.
I hate most ambiguous endings. They're so fucking lazy. They don't cause introspection or anything profound, they just make me think "Well here's story #457 of this year with the same exact ambiguous ending because apparently no one knows how to finish a damned story anymore."
You talk about them as though they're so rare and amazing, but I feel like half or more of all media I consume has an unresolved ending, because actually resolving things isn't as "artistic" or whatever.
To give a video game example, the ending to 999 was way more profound, awesome and chaotic and complete than the nothingness that is your average vague video game ending. Or something like To The Moon, where the entire game, the very concept of the story is what gets you thinking, it doesn't need a cop-out dipshit ambiguous ending to get you really contemplating the morality of changing someone's memories as they die, even at their own request. Was it fair to River to have John's memories of his life altered? It may have been more what he "wanted," but at what cost? No, really, at what cost? Does it even matter? He's dying. Is there even anything to care *about*? The entire concept is fascinating and a little sad, a little distressing. And it's different, it's a story I hadn't considered before, and I loved it, because I absolutely love new stories.
That isn't to say vague endings can't be good, of course they can. But when it clearly doesn't fit (and it almost always doesn't) and then gets excused as high art because they didn't explain anything... well, that's awful.
I can see your point, but I don't think ambiguous endings are as common as you say they are. Most things I've seen have definitive endings (unless there is going to be a sequel). Maybe the stuff we've seen has been very different with no overlap, but I really don't think that ambiguity is that common.
I see precious few ambiguous endings in my area of entertainment.
@@greggeverman5578I think it's a matter of being over-exposed to either type of ending. In general, though, I prefer for each part of the story to be just as fleshed out and complete as the beginning. Now, if you're going for some avant-garde shit and have the entire story be ambiguous, that's something different and it makes a lot more sense. I just think for me personally at this point, I expect like 80% of the media I consume to have an ambiguous ending that'll make me groan and roll my eyes as yet another artist thinks they're being unique or deep as they fail to write a satisfactory conclusion to their tale.
@@Xbob42 What type of stuff do you frequent?
Me: it's mostly older video games and older movies. pre-2010 era stuff was the best.
Honestly you deserve more views and subscription.nice videos
Great essay. This is the quality content I subscribed for.
Final Fantasy X's ending is so, so beautiful, christ. I started crying as soon as you've shown Tidus junping again. I always took it as deeply gratitude from the spirits he sees, and acceptance from his part of his father.
We are generally moving away from stories with defined “good and bad” tropes, and I’m happy about that. There is nothing thought-provoking about good guy beating bad guy and everyone is happy- hurray. Why did games such as Bioshock Infinite and The Last of Us cause so much widespread discussion (and acclaim)? For Infinite, the ending was very bitter and a bit open-ended. In TLoU the hero just about turns into an antagonist, but for a reason that was very believable.
Shows like Westworld and Game of Thrones are proof that people don’t just want a story where John Wayne saves the town and rides off into the sunset. Most of the remaining main characters in GoT could end up dying before the finale and we would likely celebrate that.
I'm not saying game stories have to be structured or themed in any one particular way to be good or memorable. My all-time favorite game is Final Fantasy 7, and its ending, though much more complex and nuanced when really examined, is still pretty clear and morally black & white. The good guys win and the world is saved. But I also appreciate stories like The Last of Us and Nier: Automata which are morally ambiguous and compel discussion between peers. My only point was there is no one way to tell a great narrative, unlike what this video's author says. He claims that our brains want a clear-cut good vs evil story that gets resolved in a cliche way, but I don't think that's true. It doesn't mean those kinds of stories aren't good, but that's not the ONLY way to tell a good story.
I hardly EVER comment, but this video was beautifully written. Thank you for the thoughtful insight.
Personally I really like ambiguous endings like Inception or Pan's Labyrinth, not everything should have a bow put on it in the end. Those two specifically whenever they come up in conversation you've got an A+ discussion topic for the next 20min. It certainly can be unsettling having dots unconnected, but it's nice to have in industries where the board strokes of most film or written stories are fairly predictable, I welcome anything that turns tropes or expectations on their heads. Disrupting expectations is why I liked The Last Jedi (there I said it aloud on the internet *duck and cover*) we all had this image of Luke after Jedi and the hero we thought we knew was still boarder line willing to kill an evil family member. Our new protagonist is someone willing to dive head first into the dark side and our antagonist is tempted by the Light, I thought I was going to get one thing and I got something else, and I love that.
Awesome Video. Interesting that you used FF7 music throughout the video. Awakened my nostalgia and my urge to play it again.
While the evolutionary psychology you reference is doubtless true for humans on average, there's a lot of individual differences in how we tolerate ambiguity (it pays for some animals to explore the unknown more and find new niches) which feeds into individual differences in people's reactions to ambiguous media (and how willing people are to tolerate predictable stories).
There are dangers to ambiguous story endings. It can feel cheap, like the writer is shirking their job, we can always imagine a story for ourselves (what we do when we complete an ambiguous story) but the writer is being paid to do some of that imagination for us so if they give us something ambiguous it can feel like they didn't do their job. If they give us an unusual thought provoking stimuli for our own imagination, that we wouldn't have come up with ourselves, that doesn't apply. We can always think about some aspects of a story, if the story is too ambiguous about basic things then those speculations about more interesting details may not be able to happen.
If you want to understanding the ending to Inception, you should probably go back to high school and read Odyssey and look up the portion about Ariadne. It includes things like... architects and a labyrinth. It's clear what her role, who the master architect is, and why she picked up the building so swiftly.
Man your videos are always so inspiring, makes me tear up every time lol
Heh, didn't expect Paranoia Agent clips. Time for a rewatch.
Damn, what an ending. Another phenomenal video. Teared up a bit.
Big difference in Eastern and Western culture as well. Stories were much more likely to not give you all the answers in Eastern media, while Western stories always had to have a concrete ending. FF10 is an example of an AMAZING ending, but Western audiences fussed enough that we got X2... yayyyyy. That said, my original favorite, (and first) ff8, is a great example of the other side of this coin, where the game was divisive for both cultures. I can soundly say it's not even close to my favorite anymore. I find that fascinating though, we are now accessing mediums that belonged to different cultures and the way it "resonates" (hehe) with us all happens in so many unintended ways. Fun stuff.
Damn it the FFX ending made me tear up again.
The Truman Show is one movie that ends and I've always wanted to know what happens when he walks through that door.
Awesome message Champ
I feel like the soulsborne games captures all of what you're talking about.
Tyler Edge I was thinking the same thing
To answer your confusion about the eagles from The Lord of the Rings...
1. They don't even have any desire to get involved.
2. They would be seen from miles away and eviscerated in the blink of an eye by either Orc archers, Nazgûl riders, or even the Eye of Sauron itself. Attempting that kind of direct route from the air would be suicide. There is no chance they would succeed.
I'm convinced that Cobb's kids were his token in Inception, not the top, which was his wife's. I read that theory online and then watched the movie with that in mind. In the very first scene, where he washes up on the beach, he sees his kids but they run off before he can see their faces. He later explains that he can never see their faces when bringing up that memory because he didn't see them at the time. He sees them at some point in every dream level. In the final scene, his kids turn toward him and it even goes to slow motion as he sees their faces. The top is a red herring.
Anyway, great video.
What a fantastic video! Well done! 😄
You should really try an anime called Devilman Crybaby on Netflix which has a very unresolved ending and yet it could not end any other way. It really changed my way of thinking.
Final Fantasy VII's ending might be, all things considered, one of the strongest pro-ecological statements of all time and I can appreciate and respect it for that.
Also, Madoka Magica's ending was perfect and anything after it is Shinbo's and Urobuchi's way of getting back at rabid fans who were angry about the series, just like The End of Evangelion was Anno's and Metal Gear Solid 4 was Kojima's.
I think Shin Megami Tensei Overclocked does multiple endings great. I am not the biggest fans of ambiguous endings, but it can be done well.
amazing video, keep up the good work
Great analysis, there! Our imagination can do better work than a lot of studios, if we give it the chance!
I’m personally not a huge fan of ambiguous endings (likely because, as you said, ambiguity is chaos for the mind), but this was a really enjoyable and understandable video. Five stars for stellar editing and adorable baby~
If anybody was wondering what anime he kept showing it was Paranoia Agent
Masterpiece video 👍
That's all I got
Why the fuck do your videos not get more views? Your content is amazing. I may not like all of it, but I recognize your hard work and admire the effort behind every video. Bravo~
Good timing with the ending of Westworld season 2 haha
BTW, FF8 has my favorite ending (and opening) of any video game. Part of that is its creepy ambiguity but also the way it flows with the music.
Legit started feeling anxious when you cut Aerith's theme while talking about unresolved chords
Leaving some stuff up to the imagination is always good. You get to make your own scenario in you head of what happens in the aftermath the ending. FF8 on the other hand was a little too open ended. Maybe the fan theories confused me more than the actual ending.
It only seemed that way to me the first time I beat FF8, and that was because I forgot to sit through the credits until that after-credits scene, gave me a totally different impression of the ending than in following playthroughs. lol
Nimroc I can see where you are coming from with that!
ruclips.net/video/3ryqubUmKkg/видео.html&list=PLZWhz2atvtVhKtMRler9T3-0-nhu9KX91
It was happy ending which all plays out on a hand cam during the credits or are you talking about all the weird stuff before that. The producers squashed many fan theories in the last few years
ruclips.net/video/FffWazMVcOo/видео.html the after credits video could clear up some questions like said above
Wow, this video is amazingly good! Congrats guys!
Ps: didn't know you had a daughter, Casen! She's adorable!
zelda breath of the wild made me feel like a child again, not knowing what was around me and learn
Great job! My youngest just turned one. It is an amazing time. They are sponges for information. I teach science and I always use my kids as an example on how all humans are innately scientific in how we learn.
totally didnt expect signal to appear in this haha my favorite kdrama!
Never thought Lee Min Ho would make an appearance on the channel..
Great content mate.
The ending of FFX was intriguing and interesting.....but if you like happy endings FFIX and FFVIII was the best
FFIX and VIII had bittersweet endings at best. Especially if you consider some theories concerning the ending of VIII.
Starwars the last jedi was amazing!
What a wonderful essay Casen.
Beautiful, simply beautiful
That was incredibly well put together and delivered Casen! Challenging our way of thinking helps us think, imagine, discover, learn and understand more. You def lived up to when u said in the recent podcast that ud make a video about ambiguity and binary thought processing.
For the love of sephiroth can someone tell me the name of the final fantasy song at 5:35???
I think there needs to be a distinction between "ambiguous ending" and "no ending." The former leaves openings for the audience to fill on their own, whereas the latter is poor storytelling. There's a particularly bad trend with certain media that expect to become a franchise and "ambitiously" conclude on a satisfaction-devoid cliffhanger. That's not a conclusion, that's an incomplete story. At least have the decency to end on at least some note of finality - a task complete, a challenge overcome, a "mid-boss" fight - even if that note leads to "and so the journey continues", we don't feel like our time has been wasted.
That was a beautiful video. Thank you so much
Still hurts to hear that song 😢
I love this channel
great script, well delievered. amazing music
Very great video laughed at the twilight part haha
I thought you were going to end the video with the last chord not being played
Beautiful video, thanks :)
3:04 - What anime & episode?
There is not a better feeling than watching a movie or playing a game where the ending make us think about it for a long time. When the media you consume is not forgotten 5 minutes after experiencing it.
Oh, thats why The Last Jedi is a great film, btw.
Subverting expectations =/= a good movie. When I look back on The Last Jedi, I can only think about how terrible it was and how it killed the Sequel Trilogy.
WackySwacky As the Last Jedi still raises fire and analysis while nobody ever talk about The Force Awaken anymore, is the proof of success any film maker would ever want. Talk about good or badly, but do talk about it.
The act of merely talking about a film does not make it great. By that logic, The Room is also a great film, which it objectively is not. People still talk about The Last Jedi because it is apart of an as-of-yet unfinished and on-going trilogy, and the fact that it is a STAR WARS movie no less. It was going to be talked about regardless. The only reason people still bring it up in conversations is to point out how it killed off any hype for Episode IX and also kinda ruined the Sequel Trilogy with it's "subverting expectations by destroying everything" retarded logic.
The ultimate goal of a filmmaker IS NOT to just create something "controversial", because that shit is just cheap. Only assholes think films should be like that.
Not talking about good or bad. Just about being remembered. Still i had a few good times with the Last Jedi, mostly visuals id admit, but as im not as a big fan of SW i couldnt not care less about a few error only purist cares about
PS: Episode 9 will still be a sucess, mostly because fans will make publicity for it, good or bad, it'll be talked about for sure... and many months prior the release. Star Wars fans are too predictable at this point.
yes, there is a better feeling: knowing exactly what happened in a story. I hate ambiguity and having to imagine myself the rest of the story or the ending. if I wanted to do that I would write my own story. if I watch a movie, read a book or play a game I want to know "this is what happened, it's official, it's canon, this is the real story".
oh, and the last jedi is horrible and it killed star wars, it did more damage than the prequels. at least the prequels were made by the creator of the thing, he had the right to do whatever he wanted with the story and characters. disney didn't have the right!.
Last Jedi was really good
Amazing video.
Ambiguity in games is often just a heavily obscured through line. Take the original four Silent Hill games, which are the most misunderstood titles in gaming history. It wasn't because they were ambiguous, they simply required more from the audience. FFX's ending was not ambiguous either. I insist that VIII and VII had ambiguous endings, but I found that the evidence supports them simply being ambitious for the medium. Ambiguity in a medium is when the creator them self doesn't know what the story is about. I can think of only a couple titles that are truly ambiguous. Angel's Egg, for example.
this was great
This is high quality.
What anime was the one with the talking frog?
fookin amazing this video was
TehPieLuver agreed
GlassReflection on youtube has said it in the past, the Ending is Paramount!
"Not at all the way that we thought it should have gone"
Oooooooh boy, well, I'm gonna have to COMPLETELY disagree on that one. Not everything went the way I expected it to go, (except for Luke... He was pretty much exactly how I expected him to be and I'm still surprised people were really THAT taken back by it) however the film went the way that I believe it needed to have gone and should have.
Very well done video. And your daughter is adorable
Yes, the curiosity of a child is truly an amazing thing. And then she becomes curious about boys. I'm lucky to still have hair.
If a story is well written, i.e., the resolution of the story being told occurs, then an ambiguous ending or denouement works. Otherwise, it's just a cheap trick bad writers employ to appear deeper than they are.
Nolan has written ambiguous stories his entire life. The fact that Inception's ending is so hotly contested speaks more towards that film being J.J. Abrams film stock with pretentious airs than anything else.
??? I don't understand your point about Inception. It's bad because the ending is still talked and debated about?
I'm still of the opinion that ambiguous and open ended story telling is usually just a cheap way of trying to add depth when you don't know how to conclude the tale you want to tell. A narrative cop out to act like your story is deeper than it really is.
Very rarely have I seen it done well or in a way that's even a little satisfying, and I would personally not count Journey or FFX among them (The sequel didn't help though).
This was a great, really funny video
beautiful stuff
very well said nice video
Your daughter is absolutely adorable! What's her name?
We're not suppose to know her name, that's the point. It's to make things ambiguous...
lol ...But seriously, I'm curious at to what her name is too.
That makes sense i probably should have thought of that
That was beautiful :)
NIce try pretending you're not a massive Twilight fan, Casen. After reading those books so many times, we know you're obviously Team Edward.
Jesus. Beautiful
The language seems a bit much, if I may say so.
You need more subs