NBA Legacy Reassessments: What Current Players Can Still Flip Theirs? | The Bill Simmons Podcast
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- Опубликовано: 17 июн 2024
- The Ringer’s Bill Simmons is joined by Ryen Russillo to talk about legacies in the NBA.
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First 30 seconds of this pod was ELITE
And their critique of the half-time or pre-game Final shows were spot on. They have almost become unwatchable.
@@kwilliams1958
Best duo in the history of yacking about hoops
Agreed 😂
No duo besides Wilbon and Kornheiser can talk about basketball on this level. The history that's always shared is......chefs kiss
I thought of a pretty recent legacy reassessment and then double reassessment back. Andrew Wiggins during the Golden State 2022 title run was given a career reassessment where they decided that if he had only been playing for a good franchise with experienced players then his career would have been very different.Then he signs the big contract and disappears for two seasons and so the reassessment gets another reassessment and everybody decides that Wiggins just had the one good season and was who he was all along. Like most of these reassessments I think that the truth ends up being actually somewhere in the middle.
The Wiggins thing is hard because we don’t have all the details about why he’s missed so much time. From the sounds of it there’s been a lot of family issues going on. I think the assessment of Wiggins will move back towards the positive as details come out
@@ImElectro just from a story standpoint he was thought of as a good score bad team kind of guy and definitely thought of his soft. During the 2022 run he was the second best player for the Warriors. Obviously it hasn't gone so well since.
Wiggins went from No.1 Pick Franchise Player Expectations to is he a bust? To
Champion.
BTW he was the 2nd best player on that team.
Poole was 3rd
Klay or Draymind were 4th best
poole 3rd lmfao
Looney was really good during the finals as well. From a rebounding standpoint mostly though. I think he had a 15 plus rebounding game during one of them but that may have been a playoff game and not the finals. I would say the Draymond was probably the third best player during the playoffs ahead of Poole.
Putting the full pod on RUclips is gonna make a huge difference in ratings
facts, i always listen to it but now being able to watch is a great experience
It’s such a no brainer move
Coin Toss Brothers I am still rolling on the floor 😂😂😂😂
Always enjoy the conversation with Ryen and Bill. Dirk was always one of the most under appreciated players of all time. He transformed the game for big men.
It's ridiculous that pro athletes can't be criticized with the person listing off all of their accomplishments and telling them how great they are. The Luka criticism was fair. You can be a great player and have major, very noticable flaws.
The issue in regard to being critical about a player, is trying to defer what hating and what's criticism. Think in today climate of sports takes, alot of it is hate disguised as criticism.
@@emwebb10 The issue is fans not realising this is all the aim of the game. They arent hating, they are saying exactly what they need to say to get you to react. They arent going to stop "hating" because it works
@@colewarburton3832 valid point. That why I been checking out from a lot of podcast and sports groups. A lot of takes are made to argue for the sake of it. It’s weirdo behavior
This new era of sports fans views can’t stand hearing anything negative about one of these players, its ridiculous and its why the product is getting worse and worse
@@emwebb10hate vs criticism is obvious. if you use legit stats and make a real argument, it's valid criticism. when it's not about stats but purely about narrative, it's hate. it's "tatum needs to go cold turkey on his step back 3s because he shoots ~30% on them" vs "tatum only wins because of his teammates"
19:04 Orlando was a missed open shot and possession away from going up 3-1 on the Lakers in the finals. Really go back and see how close the end of games 2 and 4 were
That series was a LOT closer than most remember.
its mostly forgotten because the team everyone expected to win ended up winning series anyway
As a 10 year old, my dad told me how great Wilt was, but Russell was better cuz he owned him and won all the rings. 😂
Your dad was too young to be having kids. Wise beyond his years though.
@@donsmith3067Dad’s a great guy, but flat wrong and anyone who believes Russel was anywhere near Wilts level is drunk. Ppl say Shaq got robbed when Nash won the MVP over him. Wilt averaged 50/25 and lost the MVP to Russel who didn’t even avg 20pts.
Russel was decent and always on the better team, but Wilt was by far the better player. The rings matter, but that’s a team achievement and Wilt never had the teams Russel had. And when he did he dominated the finals
@@tjanderson5892preach
@@tjanderson5892Not true at all. Wilt had the same quality of teams as Russell did.
Bill and Rusillo just work so well together
I kinda agree with Bill on Joel Embiid. He has been a force in the regular season and can put up huge scoring numbers but in the playoffs, he’s not reliable enough to count on him for a long playoff run. I hope Joel proves me wrong but I think he may end up the Barkley/CP3/Ewing of this era.
I agree.
He reminds me a lot of Pat.
Surprised no mention of Butler. Him winning a chip as the best player on the team would start some interesting conversations
Would it?
I'm not sure he would actually leap frog any contemporaries. And he's already refurbished his reputation/legacy with the two Finals runs
But people wouldn't look at you weird when you said he's better than Harden and Russ so there's that
Jimmy is far too old now for that to even have a chance of happening
What kind of conversations?
Yes I think it would move him a notch above the Russ/PG/Carmelo and even D Rose rank-though he’s least talented of those 5.
Yea I think it would have demanded a re-imagining of his legacy, but ultimately the reason he DIDN’T get Miami all the way to title in 2023 and bubble 2020 is why he’s appropriately not considered a superstar, tier 1 guy, 1st ballot HOF guy. Jimmy is good enough to take you to just short of an NBA title. Talent and ability wise, he’s more star than superstar.
Paul George going into his 15th season made me sit down
Jimmy Butler turns35 this yr. Lay down!
Me realizing every draft class after lamelo and ants im older then made me feel old
@@Aceboogie_13fr man
Dudes really be 25 and don’t understand how time works without looking at aging nba players
One of my favorite pods Bill and Russillo have ever recorded
Also - KG. We love him for his commitment, competitiveness and “Anything is Possssiiiblllllle!” But he was a great player on bad teams and then never made it past the conference finals until he links up with two HoFer’s. A lot of this is attributed to Minnesota being a bad franchise, but still. KG, for all that talent and intensity really only has a big 3 championship
The front office f**ked itself. I wouldn't call Minny a bad team from when Garnett was drafted until after their conference finals loss. I can't remember a series they should have won before then. Seattle, Portland, Houston are the most notable opponents that I remember and they shouldn't have won any of them.
If they don’t go after Joe Smith, could that have changed?
Weeeell. It's always complicated. But 04 KG's "big 3" included Sprewell and Cassell. Is that even a big 3? Look at their advanced stats. Cassell is better, actually. Sure, they got swept by the 04 Shaq and Kobe Lakers who then lost 4-1 to the Pistons. But KG was BY FAR the best player on that team, including its heart and soul. Then add 4x rebounding champ, 1x DPOY, 12x all-defense, 1x MVP. People forget that despite a long career, his career tail had actually started in 08-09 when he won the ring at age 31. You can also see it in his games played at a time when guys didn't miss games, starting that year. People are surprised to learn that Garnnett started turning gimpy at age ~31. KG was really freakin good, if not quite pantheon Kobe or Duncan. But look at who THOSE guys played with.
Context matters. All the advanced impact metrics show he had an outsize impact on winning. The problem was he had very little talent around him, besides for that 2004 team, which wasn't that stacked to begin with. You need help to win and KG in Minnesota was the unluckiest superstar arguably ever before his trade to Boston. Minnesota were incompetent and ruined his prime, from the Ray Allen trade, to the Joe Smith trade that stripped them of multiple first-round picks, to losing Billups for nothing.
@@David-iv6je also worth noting Cassell tore his hip or they probably beat LA and give Detroit a tougher challenge. That LA team should have lost to SA in round 2
But I'm not convinced if you put KG in SA instead of Duncan they don't have the same outcome. KG was that good. The stuff we ripped him for -- taking mid-range shots instead of post ups and (gulp) passing -- was actually super helpful.
KG is like West to me where it definitely was not their fault. West ran into a buzzsaw and KG was sabotaged by his own team and injuries (Googs, Cassell then himself) and Starburys ego
Truly a dynamic duo of pods...love the historical narratives. All the haters on Dirk (there were/are many), go back and watch Dirk in the 2011 finals. Dirk earned his all-time flowers from that whooping he put on the Heat.
the chemistry between bill and russillo is like that peak kobe shaq video
I think in this era there’s less sympathy because of the “player empowerment/player movement” era. In this era, star players are essentially about dictate their careers, the teams they play for, even the construction of the roster to some extent so if they don’t win it’s all on them. I won’t feel sorry for a player who made his own bed with poor decisions in terms of team or teammates.
I'm sure I'm not alone in this but I do not really remember that 2021 Paul George run. I think it's the post covid thing but I can barely remember that Phoenix somehow came out of that. I had completely lost how they got to the finals.
Chris Paul was 2 wins away from a ring
@@anthonytrevino3191 I remember that Phoenix almost won the championship I just don't remember Paul George having a really good series during that playoffs.
8:45
You guys need to bring on Ben Taylor when you talk about “winning bias”.
Thank god you’re finally taking time to address it.
If Ryan and Ben ever had a podcast my brain would explode. I couldn't handle it
@@michaelahurtpolar opposites
Jokic/Denver last year is probably the biggest example of this
@@Fent- How exactly? People were talking about Jokic as a GOAT level offensive player _before_ he won.
Winning bias is someone like Robert Horry or Kobe or Tim Duncan vs Kevin Garnett where popular perception is heavily influenced by how much they won. "He won, therefore he must be better than this guy who didn't"
Or the best example: people who think Tatum is better than Luka because Boston beat Dallas.
Jokic (and Curry) winning just (slightly) tampered down all the neanderthal fans.
@@michaelahurtthe general consensus wasn’t jokic was the best in the world until he won, then everyone put him on a Pedestal, same thing they did with Ant after the nuggets series
Paul George and Tobias Harris together!!! 😂😂😂 sounds like a hilarious joke ❤
Tobias is gone, his contract ended this year
Two of the best of this generation to talk hoops
This pod is so good hahaha
Imagine the joy Bill simmons will feel if on the same week his Celtics win the NBA Finals, he gets to witness the Florida Panthers be the first team to get reverse swept in a championship series since 1942. The Florida Panthers carrying out the greatest choke job in 82 years is music to my ears!
Although it's not likely it would be pretty unexpected if DeAndre Ayton decided to be a great basketball player for the rest of his career and somehow turned his whole situation around. I think if James Harden led a team to the finals and won it there would be a major reassessment of his career especially in the last five or six years. At this point nobody would expect him to be the best player on a championship team and it would almost be surprising to see him as the second best player on a championship team. Joel Embiid would be another player that would be able to turn around his image a little bit by winning.
Credibility like Windhorst 😂😂😂😂that’s wild
I do think history will be much more kind to Westbrook than harden. Just based on pure individual likability if nothing else.
i don't like westbrook's game but his motor is something you can't teach. way more likable off court and more beloved by teammates
No lol. Harden is levels above Westbrook
Westbrook avg a triple double 4 out of 5 years (3 straight!)
Is Legendary
Harden to me is a choker
And Westbrook has great playoff success? He had prime Kevin Durant and made zero finals without harden
@@nicholas7525yes cause harden made the finals after 2012. Oh wait no he didn’t cause he keeps choking.
Bill once again lying about Wilt, as always. Yeah wilt was really “passing up easy shots to go for assists, and that’s what cost them in 1968”. Bill does realize that playoff assists don’t count toward the assist title, right? The 68 Sixers were absolutely wrecked by injuries in the post season. Wilt had a knee injury he was playing through, Chet Walker was playing through injury, Billy C was out, iirc.
He made hundreds of millions with his opinions......not sure I take you at your word.
His playmaking fell off from 68’ RS to 68’ PS and his scoring efficiency dropped off as well.
@@tyjohnson3111 yeah he was hurt, and that’s further proof he wasn’t assist hunting in the playoffs. If you look at the series against the Knicks’ twin towers (Reed and Bellamy were 2 of the 3 best non-BR, non-Wilt centers in the league) his numbers were fine. It’s just that when you’re playing the guy who’s literally the greatest defender of all time by a mile, your numbers are probably gonna drop a little.
I think what happened with Luka Doncic in game 3 showed a less experienced playoff performance that I don't think we'll see out of him again. He completely switched it up for game 4 and was clearly the best player on the floor and maybe the best player in the league. The whole series has felt like Boston versus Luka Doncic and when you compare these teams player by player it's not even close. Kyrie is debatable for being the fourth best player on the court out of these two teams. Obviously as a career player Kyrie is better than either Tatum or Brown but definitely not going forwards. It is truly a shame that Luka didn't put out this masterpiece in game 3 instead of game 4 because it's just too little, too late. Clearly Boston felt pretty early that they weren't going to win the game and pulled back and rested for the next one. NBA narratives are just so effing bizarre. After the Minnesota series everybody decided that Luka Doncic was the best player in the league and then they decided that he wasn't and now I think he's back to being one of the top three guys which is where he belonged all along. Years from now people will realize that this was one hell of a carry job and compare it to what Dirk did or what LeBron did with that first Cavaliers championship attempt. Dirk actually had a better team than Luka did.🎉
I was 20 when the Celtics last won in 2008. I started my college that year. So many ups and downs, so many injuries, unfortunate bounces with this team, but it's been worth it. Absolutely stoked to see the J brothers hoist the trophy. Banner 18!
The loss of so many past sports articles online is such a gut punch.
And many of the articles that are still searchable are locked behind a pay wall.
The irony of Bill Simmons not realizing he does the same thing Eddie Johnson is killinG me.
Can we get an updated trade value list video in a month?...I now got wemby at 1. luka at 2. ahead of tatum and ant at 3a. tatum at 3b. shai at 5. jokic and giannis dropping out the top 5 at 6. and 7. and brunson at 8. and paolo at 9. and mitchell at 10. booker at 11. haliburton at 12. morant at 13. embiid at 14. and zion at 15.
@0:10 Robin eventually became Nightwing and went to his own city and became the main hero FYI for the comic nerds out there
and temporarily becomes Batman
The fact that T-Mac is in this conversation makes my heart happy! 🎉 FORGOTTEN LEGEND
Love bill Simmons but hate the Celtics. Go figure.
Same and im a Knicks fan
GOAT duo
7:25
*1969 Celtics* ⤵️
⏺️All-NBA 2nd Team/All-Def. 2nd Team/
All Star Hondo
⏺️All Star/All-Def. 1st Team Bill Russell
⏺️All-Def. 2nd Team Tom Sanders
1969 BAL (57-25, 1st East)
---PHI (55-27, 2nd East)
---NYK (54-28, 3rd East)
---LAL (55-27, 1st West)
1969 SDR (37-45, 4th West)
69’ Finals Jerry West:
*37.9/4.7/7.4*
7 GP/43.9 MPG
*49% FG (96/196)-83.9% FT (73/87)-(56.6% TS)*
307 MP
265 PTS
33 TREB
52 AST
20 PF
3rd in MP (-29)
*1st in PTS (+67)*
10th in TREB (-142)
*1st in AST (+16)*
T-9th in PF (-14)
*1st in FGM (+22)*
*1st in FGA (+34)*
*1st in FTM (+23)*
*1st in FTA (+21)*
Legendary start
I just watched that 2 times , first I was drunk and was enjoying but forgot most of it, now I have completed lol
TMac doesn’t get enough shit, yes I’m a Rockets fan. Sure some of those teams were supposed to win but he played bad in a good chunk of his prime playoff matchups/bad in the clutch. He dropped alot come post season compared to Wade and esp Kobe. I’d give Melo and even Harden more slack than I would TMac besides the injury stuff.
I think the main legacy question is on the clippers and the choice looms wether they should try and move to the eastern conference where it’s wide open.
T mac with wade and kobe for more than a year is crazy
34:23 LOL ryen shut down that LaVine question real fast
Just got off a 12 hour shift and I see this. 🙏🙏🙏
First. Love the podcast fellas!
Love it, Bill using vodka as a mouthwash during work. Watching from Bangkok slick. Let's go Serbia.
100% agree with bills point on the curry ring
Bill nailed it when he said the only way for Lebron to chase a ring, win it, and have it positively impact his legacy is if the primary option on his new team (ie. Luka or someone like that) goes down with injury and Lebron still manages to win the title as the (now) best option.
yeah i dont see that happening tbh
the wayback machine not work? 1:30
David Robinson used to be trashed in sports talk radio so much. The 99 & 03 chips saved him from that (except when Hakeem is brought up). He was definitely Robin (almost 1B) in 99, defensive Robin in 03 (his last season). But no matter the situation, how bad the loss might be (like 2001 against the Lakers) DRob always showed up for interviews.
Anyone mind listing off DRob’s All-Star⭐️, All-Defensive 🔒 & All-NBA🏅 teammates pre-Duncan?
@@tyjohnson3111 I'm guessing here but Sean Elliot, Dennis Rodman, and maybe Terry Cummings?
I was in high school when Bron went to the Heat, and I was so pissed I stopped watched the NBA as well 😂. It was dramatic in hindsight, but I could not believe he did that.
Redeem Team Era coming to a close.
many of whom were discussed in this video.
Harden
Westbrook
Criss Paul
end of the 'Bron narrative. You can't scorn his impact with the amount of rings and usually on the GOAT conversation
. . .
. . .
Truly hoping Rivers publicly shared that Dame story to add a motivational chip on Dame’s shoulder this offseason. I hope Dame is crazy motivated after watching Jrue get a chip, because this past Bucks’ season was easily one of the biggest train wrecks of the league.
He's cooked. Was already overrated. Now he's an anchor on Giannis' legacy. Lasry sold out at the right time. Nothing but downhill from here.
The Lebron flip in 2012 was WILD. Starting around 2008 he starts getting ripped for not carrying terrible Cavs teams to a championship. Obviously then leaves CLE and then MIA loses to Dallas.
But then in 2012 he TAKES OVER. Dominates the season and Playoffs, wins the first Ring, then immediately wins the Olympics again and is the best player on that team. Then he goes to six straight more Finals.
Both guys were thinking it without saying it... Steven A is an 11 every day on everything 😂😂
Great point for “not losers” when losing to the GOATs like Jordan, Duncan, Kobe/shaq combo. No one faults those guys
If Bill wants to play that game. I have Lakers 11 championships to the Celtics 5 championships. When the NBA turned to the modern era.
Counting titles from the 1960s is like giving Melo a ring for his NCAA title
@@amc1140how?
@@tyjohnson3111 it was a different sport in the 1960s. It’s like comparing civil war baseball to today
@@amc1140 not counting titles because a sport undergoes natural evolution (like every sport ever does) is asinine. And I notice you cut it off after the 60s, as if _that’s_ when basketball started to change. Nope, it’s just because you’re a Celtics hater and want to delegitimize their accomplishments under the guise of neutral basketball analysis.
@@Anonymous-ju9bg this isn't a new thing. People don't really count NFL championships before the Superbowl era. Who is counting Civil War baseball titles? Technically they are chips, but it's disingenuous to equate them to a title in 2024
How come defense is never a determining factor for you people anymore? Especially with how we see things going these days defense is going to be more important in the second half of the ‘20s than it was in the first. 47:27
Defense in the NBA gets overlooked in general these days. Especially when talking about guard players.
@@fortynights1513 yet Lukas is getting dawged for lack of defense…
I’m buying the Philly fit for PG on a basketball level, but the stuff Bill brings up seems to be such an obvious reason not to bet on it. He wants to stay in LA. Looks more like he won’t every day. I think the Clips have great potential if they can hold up physically and the organization is willing to show a little patience.
So many guys yall discussed in the last half of this pod are suffering from lack of a system and team identity or have at some point… except Ja, who seems to have very different identity issues that i’m rooting for him to overcome maybe more than anything aside from another Joker ring.
I’m so happy for the pod that they won
Once again, wondering if today would be the day that Rusillo realizes defense is part of the game. Alas, once again, today is not that day.
Embiid. He stays healthy and makes a playoff run to the NBA finals and it goes down to the wire. His entire legacy flips. Right now he’s in the Derrick Rose category of what ifs.
Ryan Russillo is certainly Joe Dumars to Bill’s Isiah Thomas in the podcast space 😃
The disrespect of Wilt is crazy.
Facts...history repeats itself. 50+ years from now 80+
People will say Kobe, Curry, Giannis, Joker, Lebron were great in their "ERA" but don't compare to the current best players.
Wilt was an amazing physical specimen. He would be great in any era. To think Wilt wouldn’t adjust to ‘the game’ today if he grew up in it….That’s crazy… Collegiate 100m and 200m runner/hurdler/high jumper/shot put….lifted weights with Arnold in the early 80s….Common… If he was 14 in 2024 we’d all be looking at him as Wembys competition into the 2030s. As for Jerry West, he’d be a great player today too.
Its disgusting.
Best Hoop Yappers
Carmelo is DEFINITELY in contention for #1. Vince Carter? Let me think about some of this...
Shoutout to the fellow cold pizza heads
Congrats to Boston and Bill! Great season!
Tmac made a career of disappearing in the playoffs. He is not in the tier with Kobe and Wade
And getting hurt and not being as good as those 2 on defense or passing wise...he was also not at his prime long enough or at his peak as good on offense as those 2...his stats were inflated due to ball hogging...he wasn't efficient
t mac won zero playoff series
does bill do every single podcast from a different room? lol
guys got a 22 room house
KD is probably in need of a legacy saving more than any current player.
haven't looked at his career stats in a little bit huh? Winning is a team achievement. Individually clears everyone not named Lebron.
@@wesgarnett119 KD stats are great but don't act as if not winning a ring until he joined GS hasn't always been the main point people bring up when they criticize KD. If KD wins a ring another even if he's not the best player on the team it'll definitely change his legacy.
@@joel8692 and I'm saying people that criticize him haven't checked where his statistics are historically. He went to the finals and another 5 conference finals before he even stepped foot on GSW. Team achievements wont change what people think of him.
If Lebron really wanted to ring chase there's one place he could go that could effect his legacy. That would be winning a title with the New York Knicks. I think helping them end their 50+ year drought would be a major feather in his cap.
The sonics after two 1st round playoff failures
Tmac played in the finals with the Spurs
"Were Embiid and Ben Simmons actually perfect teammates"
🤣🤣🤣🤣
I think Wilt is where it starts. Being called a loser after being heralded as the greatest basketball player ever at the time
The Sixers need to bring in Tacko fall so they at least have defense while Embiid is out. 40:04
Dirk thankfully played for a GREAT organization. They built some great teams!
I think he became more of a dawg after losing in 06 and 07.
Melo and T Mac couldve been the guy for a good organization. It's far more nuanced than people make it out to be. If Melo is drafted to Detroit? C'mon, they're winning 1-2 championships with him, if not more.
Lillard can flip the legacy in the next 3 yrs!
They didn’t go down 3-0 because Kyrie and role players they went down 3-0 because they’re best player who is massively heliocentric fouled out when they had a 3 point lead in the 4th in a must win game against a better team. How can they absolve Luka for this?
I agree that Carmelo deserves more shit. Well liked by a lot of people for some reason because of what exactly? For being a ball dominating one dimensional scorer with absolutely no defense and leadership? One of the most overrated player in recent history.
Bill, if they weren't your team, you'd be having the same JB & JT debate.
If simmons didnt talk about the Celtics all the time id listen to him more. He knows his sports
But the thing is, he literally became popular and blew up because of his blatant homerism.
Honestly must be cool for him though. He can talk about his favorite teams all her wants and most just write it off as Bill being Bill essentially.
simmons will never truly appreciate kob
I think of T Mac as a loser. Especially after they advanced farther after he was out. Overrated guy. Talented but just didn’t have it. Never past the first round? Inexcusable.
One of the most skilled players Kyrie Irving couldn't get back to doing something he does exceptionally well better than I'd say 85% of the people in the league now.... And that's score off the dribble of the catch an the best little man finisher at the rim...over Zeke....then that's just your bias against him....an it come from the stuff he was getting shit for ...his game has always been A1
You guys need to chill with the Wilt criticisms 😂Wilt statistically and physically, was the most dominant force that the league has ever seen outside of Shaquille O’Neal at his peak. If it wasn’t for Russell and his team of Hall of Famers on his end, with arguably the greatest coach in NBA history, Wilt would’ve won every year, likely. Plus every year that he played with Jerry West, he was still the most valuable player, and was the best and most valuable player on the team where Jerry won his lone NBA championship. Put some dang respect on the Big Dipper’s legacy 🤨
Tony Parker biggest legacy turn around from 1.0 generation. Benched in 03 finals to 2nd best player in league 2013 losing to Lebron. Needs kawhi in 2014 but still a big arc
What do you mean “I can’t believe people are saying this about brown over Tatum” come tf on Bill we all know they were postering Tatum like he’s the next best thing and he was the 3rd best player in the finals …. Ofc people are gonna recognize Browns talents over Tatum’s especially when the last time they were in the finals , Brown played better.
While tatum needed brown i can see him winning with another costar and the right team around them...brown i can't see as a number 1 option leading a team to a title quiet yet...he got lucky teams got hurt...and tatum led them in the regular season..brown had a very good playoffs but not a historic one...
"Modern version of the Wilt scenario is Dr. J". Dr. J went to the NBA barely a couple years after Wilt's retirement 😂. If you include Dr. J's ABA years, they actually played pro ball at the same time for a couple years
1) If we’re really pulling the curtain back, Dr. J would have been on the Bucks facing Wilt in 73’ as a rookie in the NBA…but that’s for another time
Luka didnt do anything alone.
The team clearly performed extremely well defensively despite Luka's glaring defensive deficiencies.
Luka is fat and a terrible defender.
Luka needs to get in shape and train defensive mobility in the off-season.
Smashes records nightly. Smashed multiple playoff records. Imagine what he's gonna do when he's not fat 😂
Luka is a 25 year old with knee problems because he's fat. He played his usual minutes, so injuries aren't an excuse.
Seriously, its not that hard. Why could jaylen brown run around and give you 20 a night plus high effort defense for a whole game? He's in great shape.
Luka in that type of shape and invested on defense would actually be the best player in the league.
What does jaylen have to do to be better then tatum is it impossible and if so why, does coming up cltuch not matter?
I don’t think it matters. I think Jaylen and Tatum just compliment each other as much as (at times) I’ve said they don’t. I wanted to see Tatum win the Finals MVP but Jaylen was deserving. Jaylen’s defense was worthy enough
Should have been co finals-mvp
It doesn't matter but if you really want to do this there's a numbers problem for Jaylen. Tatum has led the team in the playoffs in points every year except his 2nd year and this year led them in points, rebounds, and assists and the closest Jaylen was in any of those was points and Tatum still ended up with 21 more points this playoffs. So just as a numbers perspective he would have to start statistically vastly outplaying Tatum for 5-6 years to really for sure say he's better. It still doesn't matter as they are both great together and this whole pitting them against each other is dumb
Tatum was definitely worse in this series regardless of getting more attention from the Mavs defense. He had a loooot of ugly possessions and then Jaylen would bring it down the floor and come up with the memorable plays, dunks, clutch shots. Tatum had such ugly games that it couldn’t go to him. Tatum is probably better if you just look at them individually, but both of them would struggle as sole #1 options, they really do need each other, oh and Jrue too lol
Checked off the Spurs.
I also remember how much crap David Robinson caught in 1995--after the Spurs won 60 and Robinson won MVP--only to be DESTROYED by Akeem in the playoffs. I was in freakin' Colorado, and it was a non-stop hailstorm about how Robinson was soft and a loser, would never win, etc. THEN, when Duncan arrived and they won in his second season, it became about how Robinson needed the kid.
Steph Curry 2022 was my all-time favorite ring
it was a pretty mid postseason run tbh.
Bill Simmons is a grown man and like his mood is affected by whether a sports call team wins a ball game. This is amazing to me
It’s literally his job lol. It would be off brand or weird if he wasn’t
Well, all I know is I always see Wilt exalted near the very top of most "All-Time Greatest" lists and Russell usually listed anywhere from 5-10 places lower. A guy who not only won 11 titles but also FIVE MVPs. So no, I don't think Wilt's been unfairly maligned AT ALL. Russell, in fact, in my mind, IS the most underrated player. He is NEVER mentioned as greatest player ever; only sometimes caveated as "greatest winner."