I think many audiophiles become obsessed with the " idea " of the perfect sound, and all the technical aspects of the equipment, and forget about their passion for the music. The idea of never being satisfied with your system , and always looking for a better turntable or a better speaker seems to be self defeating. You have a great system , just pull out a reissue LP of Led Zeppelin II and just enjoy...
But opposite too. I would passion for music would dye if I know that I can listen all in common modification . How to enjoy pictures in gallery hall with rainbow glasses?
It's because the shit isn't setup right yet and the owner doesn't know why and keeps buying new shit, all the while it's because of acoustics and super detailed setup that they are not aware of.
This where a solid knowledge of science especially physics and sound comes in. I love sound and play guitar. But my knowledge on class A B and D etc. and also of tubes and all that SUCK.
Steve nailed it. Thats why it is so important to audition a piece of gear one component at a time in your own system. if you hook up 2 new pieces or more how can you gauge the sound? Which component did what? Belonging to an audio club is also really great, because you can hear components at a members home and even borrow or lend a friend some gear to see if it sounds great before you buy. Make a CD of music of different styles and that you are familiar with, to audition gear whether it's at a dealer or a friends home. AND your home of course.
Steve, the broadness of you experience is why you are so trusted. I like to think of audio in terms of how does it enhance my life, make my coffee taste better, seriously, am I distracted or immersed. My best Aural skills instructor said think of chords quality not their identity. I.e. a fully diminished chord has a mysterious sound. So think of the qualities of sound based on the music you listen to, I think that goes farther then your pocket.
That is also problem - If frequency response is not flat cannot be trusted that proper chords are heard. Some components are masked or accented above other specially when chords are played by different instruments. . That may be the reason why jazz music is desired while listening to audio systems - it has little chance to be masked and thus altered.
An approach I've used that has worked very well for me is to assemble a system akin to a setup by a store whose presentations, both at the store and in their rooms at shows, I've loved listening to; or by manufacturers whose gear I love have assembled for their rooms at shows. Also, my equipment lines together match what other stores (not just the local one that I love) have done, demonstrating how these equipment lines tend to be used together. So my sources, cabling, electronics, and speakers in both my primary and secondary systems resemble those I've heard and loved, and originally assembled by those much more experienced in this area than me. On those occasions in which I've bought a component not carried by these stores, I've taken the risk following reviews of the gear by those familiar with my other equipment- and these bits of risk have sonically paid off.
How I bought my new speakers: I brought my own speakers to the store for listening comparison, as well as using the same audio system I have at home. Only the cables and of course the room were different. I listened to a whole range of speakers, both in price and in make/type, finally I went home with a set of speakers that were in the lower half of the price range. Because they sounded the best with the system and the difference with my old speakers in sound quality perception was the greatest. Oh and I also set up my own playlist of songs prior to going. So yeah, most expensive does not equal best sound for you.
I just had my space acoustically calibrated and I'm awaiting the report in order to treat the issues. I was quite surprised to hear that the room can affect the sound by 50% or more.
Rafael Escobar I would even day more but it depends on the actual room and possibilities. I have Isophon Cassiano (12 k) and cheap Quadral for $500. My room was completely optimized with room acoustic incl. diffusors and variety of absorbers incl. membrane absorbers for low frequency. The cheap Quadral speakers in my optimized room sounds better than my Isophon in my original room.
I sent this video to my friend, we're 49, I was like, "Bro: you have to check out this guy, he was selling stuff in the late 80s that we were researching and learning about. He knows his stuff, and he's so fun to watch and listen to. Also sometimes he has great shirts."
Great statement Steve about cost vs. performance. Also I'm sure as has been mentioned perhaps in other reviews the source music can't be overstated enough. This means if you look at the source you're playing through your high end system if it is lacking your wonderful system doesn't sound a lot better than the much less expensive one you used to have. Records, bit files, tapes etc.etc. unless they are mastered properly so much of it is produced poorly and I guess that meets what the overwhelming majority of the market is satisfied with.
That’s why you should buy gear that is as neutral as possible, not colored . If your premise is true it would make it very hard for you to review equipment without changing out your whole setup to match whatever DAC you may be reviewing Love your show
I agree, I have found that speakers designed around solid state may sound indistinct with tubes, and that's only one example of component interaction. Source components, cables, amplification and speakers must be matched carefully for optimal sound.
Hanging around with audiophiles over the years made me understand that everyone’s definition of great is different. Some care about harmonics, for others it’s the soundstage…I knew a guy that wanted to hear the saliva in the singers mouth for a system to be good. It’s different for everybody, but to be honest, it’s a gear hobby. The sound audiophiles seek really can’t be found in live settings, for the most part. Everything is amplified, even in small venues. But, so be it. If it sounds good to you (and looks good…a big part of the super high end - IMHO) then it IS great.
If you like that sophisticated Kid Koala record, you may want to check out another instrumental record by J Dilla called "Donuts." Blows me away every listen.
John Mays I would add Flying Lotus' seminal album Los Angeles and DJ Shadow Endtroducing to that list as well. Although wouldn't be surprised if Steve's heard of the latter before.
I have built nice systems for people and the first thing they do is pop in a CD from the 80's and they say "Why does this sound so bad ?" So I play a good quality recording and they say "Thats what I wan't my 80's CD's to sound like . " And I have to tell them there were very very few quality recordings back then . So now I make a point of telling them "If you have a bad recording the best system can't make it good , it will only bring out the bad points even more . People need to know what it takes to reproduce good sound and I tell them you have to start with good sound , any system will only sound as good as what you put in it . But the good news is everything sounds better today than the 80's for the most part . Your right the components need to be matched to get a balanced sound . It's like building a racing engine all the parts have to work together to get the most power . Good video .
"..don't sound great.." Ok. *great* doesn't necessarily mean the same thing to everyone. For instance, some people like detail as their main criteria in judging a system. Others love a coherent organic sound in which, music is reproduced as a 'sum of' rather than individual instruments. Yet, another groups priority is soundstage width and depth, while a few love the bass heavy "club" sound. I belong to the first group personally and so, any system that doesn't give me that sounds pretty ordinary. So, yes synergy is important, however the target has to be defined before making a judgment IMHO.
Leporello Gatos For me great sound means occasionally I am puzzled what is happening. As when I presented Rodger Waters to my friend and in a second from start (never mind speakers) in front he upset shouted "what Is heard"? .
"Others love a coherent organic sound in which, music is reproduced as a 'sum of' rather than individual instruments." Good description of my personal taste :)
A great comment. We (humans) love different things with varying intensities. Unfortunately, there is one thing that the vast majority of us absolutely love: being right and calling those who think differently fools. Some people are in hi-end and spend good money (group A), some are not and spend their money in other ways (group B). Many people from group A will address those from group B as "deaf" or "envious". From group B those belonging to A will be called "fools", "idiots", "snake oil buyers". Now, if you are not happy with your setup, improve it. If you are happy, just shut up and listen to the music! Do we always have to judge what other people think?
Im an audio engineer and I’ve notice that most of the hifi nerds doesn’t care enough about acoustics in the room. I wonder how you can get a 100k stereo and skip the acoustic part? And if the room now is treated it’s almost never enough. I bet a 1000 dollar system sounds better in a well treated room then a 100k system in a bad treated room. Another thing I’ve noticed: why really thick cables to the jack? Are there super thick cables at the other side of the wall to the power station? I’ve seen this ridiculous super tiny acoustic panels on sticks with super small “special mad” tiny wood discs that “will improve the acoustics tremendously”. Has not anyone measured the actual result? I guess most audio-files only wanna throw away money on nice designed things and don’t really care that much of the sound
I can agree from what I see. This is the big reason there is close field monitors. To get up close and personal to all the sound with out the volume being so loud it creates room problems from your perception. Minimum room treatments can work depending on the room.
My system has been pieced together over 20+yrs (a flatmate back in the 90's had an awesome sounding system (he had Rogers speakers and a Cyrus amp if memory serves) that convinced me to go separates rather than one-box). Anyway, I've always bought-without-hearing and been happy with what I've ended up with even though I've stayed at the cheap end. I'm not an audiophile though, obviously. Apart from the budget I don't have the ears for it. I'll admit to being a bit of a videophile though. My system now revolves around a higher-end plasma that is absolutely glorious. Honestly, things like LeMan 24hr racing and Glastonbury absolutely pop. So I upgraded my amp from stereo to AV to take advantage of it even though I was never planning to go full surround (budget again). It's a Pioneer and it has an auto-setup microphone attachment that picks up a bunch of test sounds put out by the receiver which then makes speaker adjustments automatically. I have to say, the difference between direct and adjusted sound is mmmmyoodge. The sound comes through a pair of Mission floorstanders which are naturally lively but using the setup mic seems to even it out (with a little bit of manually added base). As I say, the difference is significant. Anyway, all of my set up is cheap. The whole caboodle (plasma, floor-standers, receiver, blu-ray, AppleTV) comes in under £1500, which feels like a lot of performance for cheap(ish), to me anyway. But seriously, that little plasticky setup mic that probably cost a buck-n-a-half is an amazing tool. Worth its weight in gold (about two-bucks-n-a-half lol)
I have assembled a very modest system that most would consider low-end. Fluance RT-85 with the Ortodon 2M Blue (2M Mono cart for my mono vinyl collection), Mofi StudioPhono phono stage, Schiit Saga+ (soon to be a Freya+ when my backorder arrives), and for my digital path, a Schiit Bifrost 2. My speakers are just AudioEngine A5+ active bookshelfers with an AudioEngine sub (volume on sub is as low as it can go while still being detectable). I'm in a low-ceiling, narrow room with old barn boards for wall panels. I have one speaker on an IsoAcoustics stand on the same piece of furniture right next to the turntable and only a foot off the wall at best. The other speaker is about 8 feet to the right on a snare drum stand with a rubber/wood snare practice pad, and it's in front of an open doorway, although I put the speaker back on an IsoAcoustic stand on the table when not in use, so we can walk through the doorway. Haha! The speakers are slightly toed-in and at the perfect height for my listening position on the couch. I have no other options for placing my gear in the room without majorly rearranging all of our furniture and negatively impacting my marriage. Academically, I'm sure most would say I have low-end gear in a sub-optimal room setup, but to me, it sounds absolutely amazing! Even my wife is often blown away at how the music completely surrounds us and how crystal clear it is, and she could give a crap about audio gear. I listen to my system a minimum of two hours every day, and if my wife leaves me home alone at night, I can easily sit down and listen for six straight hours (or more), especially when I'm drinking bourbon. I will continue to experiment and swap out gear because it's fun. I plan on getting a 2M Black cart soon, and after the Freya and rolling in some GE and Sylvania tubes I just got, I plan on trying out the Elac Navis ARB-51 actives running balanced XLR from the Bifrost and out from the Freya. However, if I was told I could never change a single component for the rest of my life, in this room setup, I'd be perfectly happy. I absolutely love listening to my system. And in the end, for me, it's more about the music collection I've curated and just enjoying the music. Cheers audio fans!
the only thing you should upgrade are your speakers. I had them. Recently upgraded to integrated amp and passive speakers like I used to have. Definitely a more hi-fi system. And you don't need massively expensive gear. Yamaha, Klipsch, Polk, etc is still great sounding
true i had before i was really amazed with the system high end audio but when i test them my god i really quite dissapointed that was not good what i expected
agreed Steve , I have a friend who recently purchased a complete system based on reviews . Speakers Vandies 3 sig series which many say sound amazing but frankly the entire thing sounds sterile to me . Very well rated set of monoblocks driving the show but use bi polar output devices which I find to be a bit sterile or not warm . Very good pre , dac ect… All used gear but well over 10k invested . Like you mentioned it is a matter of taste but over the years I have mixed and matched many amp/pre /speaker combinations , most vintage and have found myself personally drawn to late 70s luxman power amps or Nelson Pass gear , both with their own strong points . Warm , open , articulate layered imaging with good low end control . Current speakers , amp , modded tube pre , all bought used comes in under 2500$ and I haven't found anything more to my taste at 10x the price. All about match up .
A couple of factors left out: 1- You don't mention the room acoustics. Even if you select eqpt as you suggest the room dynamics could screw up the results. 2- Based on the video and my above comment, the salesman would need to visit the environment it will be used in or get a very good description (with pics) of the room. I had a supposed expert evaluate a room for the eqpt I wanted, he agreed, and the main speakers were a disaster because of a high ceiling. I switched from in-wall M-L Edge speakers (now presence spkrs) to floor standing Klipsch Heresy 1 (rebuilt & updated) speakers and all is good (an expensive mistake). The wife also had to be taken into account. 3- I still believe in the old adage, "put your money into your speakers, everything else will change with time". I purchased some Klipsch Forte II's in 1989 and I still use them today. They have been used with H-K separates in the '90's and 3 different Yamaha A/V amps. The speakers had some updating a couple of years back and sound as great today as they did new.
I have to admit that I have never been an audiophile, but I greatly appreciate your videos. The information and humor you offer are well worth the subscription. I do suspect that you would hate my old '70's Sylvania receiver and air suspension speakers, though. If it helps, I have an old Nikko hooked up to some Wards Airline speakers in another room.
The one video I totally agree with you on. Its about Synergy and proper matching. Everything has its own sonic signature its combining equipment that complement one another and work well together properly. ALSO very important is system setup. The system is only as good as the setup and calibration. You can have all the best gear but you will never hear its potential if it isn't setup properly. It takes some years to understand and prefect.
but even in the store, let's say there are 20 different IC cables, 20 different speaker tables, 20 different preamps, 20 different stereo amps, 20 different monos, 20 different CD players, 20 different streamers, 20 different digital cables. the total number of combinations with a streamer in the chain is 20 x 20 x 20 x 20 x 20 x 20 x 20 = 1 billion 280 million. If the store worker can hook up a combination in 15min, he can try 30 combinations per day or 600 per month or 7000 per year. Thus, he would need 182,857 years to try all combinations of the devices that are currently in the store. How big that number is it is sufficient to say that in approximately that number of years all things on Earth that have been made ever, e.g. electronics, plants, bridges, everything, would cease to exist all by itself with no trace left. what this tells us is that high end audio is a fiction
this is so true i have spent 30 years in the audio business and the penchant for people with a ton of money to buy BADGES or LABELS and then they put the system together and it sounds average of course they will always say its the best system as they have heaps invested so their ego will never admit that its not as good as the price should dictate what i loved most was tailoring a system for my clients and seeing the joy on their face when it sounded amazing plus i got to deliver it , set it up and spend time listening to music its a bit of an art and not everyone can do it , but the best of us can do it and do it very very well
The ones that bring up the quality of the recording are bringing up a given and obvious part of the equation. My experience has been when an expensive system sounds bad is because it typically either isn’t set up properly or the room is bad and needs a lot of treatments to help. Many times it is booth.
I was under the impression that changing one piece of gear at a time was best since you started with a reference. Changing one thing at a time would instantly change the sound for the better or worse and you of course would know what you did.
4:20 I just streamed Kid Koala (same album) and the first track has got some low bass. When I stand at a corner in my room I can hear an UNDERTONE (like not many hertz). Awesome!
My choice for sound demos are in a personal collection I bring with me to the store. jazz pieces and classical and organ music like Bach. I've listened to a lot of live jazz and live classical and the different instruments played are quite familiar. I judge sound systems and speakers on that basis and the the sound staging, accuracy of tonality and timbre are important to me in determining the quality of sound. It works well for me. Once again I enjoyed the honest review.
Ya, for sure, system synergy is key, but sometimes you get a component that just pops, and everything just sounds great. Your taste in music and the aspects of the sound you value the most/what you find musically engaging is going to be a key driver in the type of equipment you'll be looking for.
I still use an 80's Technics SL1610 Mk2 ( quite rare these days ) a decent cartridge, a 20 year old Yamaha amp, a 20 year old Marantz CD67 Mk2 Ki, good quality inter connects, good heavy QED speak cable all coupled to a pair of 35 year old KEF floorstanders. None of which is anywhere near Hi End audio! But all correctly placed, connected and most importantly the speakers are 'toe'd' in just the right amount. All used in a low and long living room. For some reason it all sounds really great. Even my long time Audiophile friends always comment on how good it sounds and the fact that it should not sound quite as good as it does! Often -I think- it is about room placement, room acoustics and sometimes just a bit of luck!
Very challenging. This is becoming a major exploration, encompassing many variables. I suppose some systems excel at presenting the human voice, while others instrumentals, some are more adept presenting live performance recordings than others, and on and on. Matching components promises to be a mind boggling exercise. Best to move slowly and carefully.
This is way late on this review but I just saw this. I thought I liked to make my own way but in recent years I realized there was people that already went through the same things and understood what I finally came to understand how I expect music to sound.
Great video and great explanation of this issue! I've also noticed that I like the sound of my "thrift store" hi fi system over my friend's very expensive Pioneer system. He has all 70's silverface Pioneer equipment and all of it matches. It was all meant to work together and he picked it out that way. It does sound great don't get me wrong, but mine just sounds better to me. It sounds more focused, warmer, and has a more balanced sound. His sounds very open and airy which is nice but it's a bit harsh and bright a lot of the time. It might just be how he has it dialed in for his taste but I really wasn't impressed. It looks amazing but doesn't sound amazing.
When the record is being made, they are using Neve or API preamps through systems that are designed to sound flat as possible. But on audiophile playback systems often the preamps cost as much as the studio the source material was originally recorded on. Playing it back through the original type of preamps sound the best.
This is not correct. The systems are designed to be super flat, but the apis. And neves are used for their color, you shouldn't use them for playback at home, it would just double up on the color. Just find something that sounds nice and listen to albums you like.
This is why you need an upstairs system, and a downstairs system. And a garage/workout room system. Mix 'n match, promote this, send that downstairs. Check once in a while to make sure the first string sounds better than the second string. Bring in that old Something from the garage, see if it still sucks.
The HiFi shop is rarer now. System building in the Uk was done using a narrow palette. The japanese equipment was passed over because it had a different palette. So, budget japanese gear was one strand of buying and British cottage industry brands another. There was stuff that was forged in broadcast and recording studios. All built to a price in a time of austerity and owned by a few. Ivor Tiefenbrun and Julian Vereker with Linn and Naim created a front end first system building philosophy with internalised upgrading pathways. Between them they ruled the ecosystem and spawned me too pretenders. Then Ricardo Franassovici brought in American products and another palette of sound appeared. So system building was about which palette. Which dealer. Which budget. The high end vs cottage industry over achievers. The shops and the hi fi press are less present and it easy to buy but harder to audition. Upgrade paths come from shops. Breadth of choice comes from browsing the internet. Advice is thin on the ground. System building is more haphazard. Almost all equipment is good. Nothing much is wrong. The difficulties arise because the health of the system depends on bandwidth, room size, ancillaries, stands, set up. All of which need expertise and patience. People now buy from a range of high performing gear from every type of manufacturer. The enthusiasts put time into making it all work properly. Others buy the brands everyone raves about and assemble them in a room without accepting that systems need setting up, adjusting and ancillaries applied to make them work.
That's the reason I like active speakers. If you found a pair of active speakers that match perfectly with your taste then It's like hitting a gold mine. In a good active speakers, everything is already well engineered and went through enough thought.
I built the core of my system over 20 years ago and it was all based on the best deals that I could swing at the time. More than 20 years later my core system remains unchanged because I got it right the first time. Aerial Acoustics 10Ts driven by Krell KMA-160 monoblocks fed from a Pioneer Elite C90 preamp or an Audio Research LS2 line stage, and as for the CD or other source, I've never found that the differences in sound quality between CD players (etc) were ever great enough for me to be able to heap high praise on one and condemn another as trash. I did pay attention to room acoustics and setup. At this moment I still love this very system and am listening to it now. It has always been musical. I've heard 300,000 dollar systems that were not very much better. To me, the basis of a great system is the speakers and a room that matches well to them. Past that point everything else has a lesser effect.
Yes - as has been addressed in previous postings, the recording productions vary on different systems. But if the system (to you) sounds horrible no matter what you play on it - then yea chances are the components just don't marry well or do well in the space you have it in (unless you don't have it hooked up right in a very fundemental way).Or the sound you wanted is just not going to happen with what you threw at the system you came up with. Musically, certain electric guitars don't really get brought out in the best ways on certain amplifiers, with or without intended distortion (subjectivity not withstanding) - certain pedals are not taken to well by certain amps either. So - there is plenty of room for error for certain components not being a good match with others - and then some components just stink period.
I think home theater had a hand in that a great deal because it destroyed rack systems, all the specs matched perfectly, the more money you spent, the better the sound quality and it was strictly about music, once the TV became involved everything changed at least for the audiophiles that can't afford high end setups
First time I totally agree with you. Its system synergy. Everything must complement one another. Just being expensive there is a art to know if they work together well. It takes someone with years of experience to design, setup and calibrate a system to get it to sound good.
Can I point out that is not always the equipment but the room it’s played in. I’ve heard people listen to or audition as they say the hifi on the shop show room or sound rooms. The people say that’s brilliant buy it, set it up at home and play it and it sounds different! That’s the fault of the sales man for not asking the right questions about room size furnishings etc! Being a ex-professional sound. Engineer my self I too have made mistakes, rather looking at the tech but not how to present it to perform at its best. But anyway excellent video
I love all the comments. I was on a famous forum with all these opinions. One day I was curious about what the deal was with all the opinions, I than asked these same people to post a video of their system playing. Crickets..............................How many people have really done the work. Not many. Most big watt and big speaker systems suck. About half of high end is aimed and people who will never listen to it.
The world of high performance consumer audio has changed enormously over the past few decades. Up through the 1990s, one could enter most high end shops with a chance of being able to compare and audition gear in all different price ranges. Shops had a selection of music on more than one medium, and plenty of it. One could bring one's own music as well. There was typically more than one listening room with a variety of equipment in each room. The rooms were usually set up with a price range for each room, i.e. entry level, medium, and if you have to ask you can't afford it. Before the 1990s, super expensive gear was a rarity. This was mainly due to dealers purchasing in quantity so that manufacturers could produce in wholesale quantities. This was how dealers added value, and by servicing the customer's needs. Better dealers even stocked more than one demo of each component so customers could take a demo or two home for better evaluation. Today, one is lucky to find anything on display at a dealer, let alone stay for any meaningful audition. Dealers don't stock product, either. Instead, dealers prefer to at most keep a single demo of each manufacturers product line, and they expect the customer to know what they like so the dealer can drop ship to the customer direct from the manufacturer. The dealer does not demo product. The dealer does not enable economies of scale. The dealer adds little or no value to the product. Many dealers also have bad attitudes. As a result, a number of manufacturers won't even sell through dealers at all. The better companies allow a thirty day in home trial with free or low cost return shipping if the customer is not satisfied. Since in home trial is a great way to audition, this strategy can work, but one is limited to one or two components at a time. There is still a great variety of audio equipment available, and even a few good dealers left who are enthusiastic about helping customers. One has to do some work, just like years ago, to find equipment which one likes and that works well together. One starts out by doing some reading. One attempts to find dealers who have equipment that seems to be well reviewed. One finds other people who have purchased equipment of interest and obtains their opinion or visits them to audition the equipment if one can do so. After narrowing down one's choices, one makes purchases of chosen equipment and hopes that one's research is accurate. After purchase, one can always trade a piece of gear one is not satisfied with and deal with the financial loss. Or one can just be happy with less than perfect sound and just understand that no audio system is ever perfect. It is best to make a commitment to purchasing great gear and biting the bullet on the financial end once. This will increase one's chance of putting together a system which will satisfy one's desire to have a quality, long lasting audio system which one will be happy with for a long time.
Do you think audioquest is overpriced for cables? also do you recommend audioquest for premium cables. or you would stick to traditional cables that are maybe $30 or or more depending?
I always says Hifi is a super hard stuff... it took me more than 10 years to have a system where I can say, ok it's pretty good, not perfect but pretty good. People have no reference of what a super good system is... Probably first, find one, get a big punch in your face and learn humility... and then work hard to get close to it... or well, the closer you can ! And well, how do you know when you are facing a super great system ??? You'll know... and everything you thought you knew will colapse at the same time...
Agreed- well said. Who has ever been in a brick and mortar hi end-( I mean )-Krell and Mcintosh/VPI/Martin Logan electrostatic's- I have maybe 15k worth of gear and have no disillusion that I am sub-par to that sound by a good margin.
Francois-Xavier GONNET , ten years for an entire equipment? It took me ten years to understand the real greatness of an Ortofon head! Hi fi gives you real satisfaction if you are lucky too! Digital guys will never understand this kind of things! But that is the price of the game...
I understand you... well, for me it was 10 years to be happy... I still have things to improve but the balance of performance in my system is pretty good. I can have better, but with a much bigger price tag, or with far less "user friendly" equipment !
il Nativo analogico vinilico, I disagree, there are endless tweeks on the digital end, too. DACs and opamp rolling is every bit as extensively difficult and varied as phono cartridge and phono preamp stuff is.
Steve, it is really nice to finally see you "in person". Been reading many of your articles in the last 15 years! I am an audiophile wannabe and would like to know if the Polk LSIM 707 speakers are "audiophile-grade". Also, are the 707s very "power-hunger"? Can an 80-watt stereo receiver such as the Pioneer Elite SX-N30 adequately power the Polks? Your long-time fan.
I can explain exactly why that is: 1. Most gear at audio shows is new, meaning that it usually has to go through about 100 hours at least, before the sound gets more distinct/less vague/evolves. At lot of new gear is inconsistent, reserved and does not fully show what it can do so early. And only about 1% of the gear at shows, is demo gear. The rest is basically brand spanking new. (that means that all the the better gear is really hiding it's potential) 2. Plus better gear, usually also opens up for a lot more to happen, meaning that it invites a lot of good and bad interaction with units/components... 3. Plus the rooms are like you said in one of your previous videos, very big and the floors are very active and there is a huge distance that most people do not at home have from the speakers to the wall many times. This again confuses things. 4. Again a huge part of the problem is that, more and more brands are streaming music. This means that, depending on if it is good or bad gear, that will react very differently to the noise/clock on the streamer/router/DAC. Almost no one in the world deals with these problems, so it could actually make a lot of bad systems sounds better than the really good ones. Because the bad ones are in a more safe kind of grove way, and the better system is more exposed to the noise. 5. Plus you have to remember that these are usually business people displaying different sounds together, that do not always go together. But they have to do so to advertize for their shops. In conclusion, all the gear is held back and mostly only playing at 10-20% of it's full potential. That is why you only get a taste for what it is like. It is a lot like seeing a car at a dealership, and never learning how it actually drives in real life. There are also many other considerations like people are also used to their own sound, and that is what they compare it too. And that many shows only have gear at a very low level, even though is it expensive. Plus most expense things don't actually sound a hell of a lot better. Only about 10% do. And most that do, arent going to be at the local small shows.
Hey Steve are you aware of the live setup they have at the winery in Northern California? But of course, it is outside, and thousands of watts. So not achievable for the average. But this thing, when I saw Howard Jones and other bands there, I could not believe the astonishing fidelity of the presentation. It was obviously made by people who understood the environment, and there was a cohesive sense of, this sound fits this space and my goodness the resolution of some of those sounds, I heard them like I always thought the best sound system would deliver them. And that's an example of matching the . . . thing we worship, to the sound that it recreates itself in.
Many high end systems get the resolution versus timbre and transient response balance skewed. If resolution is prioritised at all costs against the expense of the other two factors, then the overall sound will be pixilated with harsh leading edges of notes, an expensive non-musical mess. For example, I am estimating the following combination of individually high quality components would often lead to such a result: Chord Dac + Musical Fidelity amp + Focal speakers.
Well, and now 4 years later the market is filled with active full range speakers with bit perfect streaming and room correction (KEF Ls60, Dynaudio Focus etc) built in. Any yes after hearing Dynaudio Focus 50, they outperform +90%of the systems with a higher total cost - at least +90%.
think best to buy units from one company you are familiar with- NAD Parasound etc.- buy speakers you love and be able to get your money back if your're not delighted...
Im looking to buy a vintage early 70's solid wood floor console stereo. What would you recommend I should look for in a hi end unit? Im watching craigslist every day, but most models look like Sears brand or maybe a gerrard or Dual setup, but still not the quality I am looking for.
You confirm my observations when i serviced very expensive systems......often the owners ask what i thought of their system......HAHA.....that was the first clue and when the system was powered on i knew the why of their question ......The bought illusions with money in place of coherence and musical satisfaction.....at horrendous prices ..... OR they get rid of the one good piece of equipment that put the finger on the problems and accused it for the failure of their system.
Well i'm a fan of buying components separately. My setup is all used and i didnt have time for going hundreds of kilometers to first audition 20 year old CD etc . So is IT sounding better than my previous setup? Yes.
An amplifier should be simply an amplifier, take an input make it louder, period. I have a Carver AV 705x and it's quiet, powerful and does what it's suposed to do. The pre-amp had the most impact on the quality of the sound of my system. When I upgraded to a Marantz av7005 from my older Rotel the change was apparent.
I dunno, the one thing I felt should have more emphasis here is the room itself. Too many spend enormous money on gear, but do nothing when it comes to finding the best positition for the gear or in other ways improving the room. (diffusion etc)
I could not agree more! I don't know how many times I've been disappointed, let down while the owner raves and raves! About what? Flat, neutral, detailed sound that doesn't sound like music! But, I've also heard systems that belonged to people who experimented for years and years, swapping pieces, cables, Dacs, cartridges, speakers, pre-amps, amps, etc. And they still sound soulless! Rarely, very rarely do you hear something the screams WOW! And, even then, you come back in a week or two and suddenly it DOES NOT wow you anymore, it's just good! I believe there is a newness surprise curve, where if you hear something you've never heard that's "good" the first time it is a WOW. But once experienced it quickly devolves into a "good"! lol That's life.Kinda like Woody's (via Groucho's) I wouldn't want to be a member of any club that would have me as a member. I think AUDIO is riddled with this conundrum. Once it's yours the wow fades and it just sounds good enough! Because the next WOW is around the corner. And humans and their ears are so FICKLE!
One of your better videos because your correct. Like you said just buying expensive equipment does not guarantee you a good sounding system. Its a synergy with the whole system. And even then if you bought all the right pieces then it MUST be setup and calibrated properly in order for it to sound good and resolve the detail the system is capable of. So yes if you dont know what your are doing and a expert in high end audio you will want to find someone who is. Either a audio specialists at one of the high end audio stores, or a audiophile who has been at this for many years.
You are right when you say that the salesman of a brick and mortar store knows really what's great and what is mediocre but for the other hand, this person has to earn for a living and he/she probably has many compromises with the suppliers so in the end... who can one really trust on? Experience, personal experience is the way, and what makes so fascinating this thing called hi-fi, foremost at the beginning of the journey.
Salvador Rodenas The simple solution is to go to multiple dealers, tell them your situation and your budget. That way, you get to compare the best recommendation rather than just random products. Don't be surprised if someone recommends keeping what you have and upgrading a different Co potent. When I sold hi-fi, I always had multiple products within a given price range for customers to compare. I also didn't work on commission.
I've never heard a megabucks system. That's probably a good thing cuz then I'd want it. The thing about this hobby, is that there isn't a blue print for great sonics! There are so many variables involved that two identical audio systems at different locations will not sound the same. The way it sounds at the hi fi shop will probably not be the way it sounds at home. I read tons of online reviews once I decide what I'm buying and if the reviews align with my goals then that's the route I take. It takes alot of trial and error, alot of different gear and many hours to get your system to sound the way you like it. There's no easy method, if there is, I haven't found it and I've been at this for many years!
Yeah there needs to be a synergy of components. The room will help or really hurt it. I have a pretty expensive stereo in my studio that doesnt one up my old AR M1's , my new speakers were 8k. Its the room.
Conventional speakers have a 180° dispersion pattern. In my case Hybrid Electrostat would be the best case scenario, because they more or less beam the sound and dont have all the side wave diffraction.
I spent about $3500 between 1977 and '79 for a decent system that still sounds terrific. One thing we must remember everyone's ears are different. I know people who prefer the sound coming from the speaker of their 9 inch tablet to any stereo system, they claim to not hear any difference. I believe no two folks hear hings the same.
Sasha, Airdrawndagger. Electronic music, but very diverse, well put together, technical and you'll appreciate the soundstaging. This is not dance style, more house/trance and more complicated. An album worth hearing if your curious, my opinion, his best and a pinnacle piece for other artists as well. Dynamics for days as well!
He's right, it's synergy that matters I had a guy here that totally sold his Wilson watts for the Tympani I , I have. He didn't even hesitate 😂 Expensive doesn't mean good performance, it's understanding what speaker will fit and perform in the given space and complement of components that will make that happen.
Hi Steve, how about a system from the same brand? Example, a Marantz receiver, CD player, streamer and turntable or by the Cambridge audio brand. Would that type of setup have a better chance of playing together well? Have a nice day!
I enjoy this channel because it reinforces the joy of my audiophile ignorance. I have some component systems around the house and they all sound okay to me, even playing Spotify 😲
Steve that's wrong and right. If you buy components that have a "sound" then you have to balance it out. But it's actually wrong. Buy components that sound natural, sound musical and don't have any real eccentricities. Yes I know it takes time. It took me two years to select a system, listening at dealers and at trade shows with my CDs. If you buy a natural, musical system there is nothing to balance out really and you can upgrade with confidence. When you upgrade try to take your equipment along to the dealer (e.g. your CD player) or bring the amp you are considering, in your living room for a trial. And of course your own CDs.
Story reminds me way back when, probable 25 yrs ago, went to a home (CL ad) to buy a NAD Amp. and walk into this guys living room and there it was floor to ceiling wall to wall (Just like Grateful Dead in early 70's) speakers, different sizes, mfg. and like you say it sounded...............................Ehhhhhhhhh.
No no..its mostly true! System synergy, room acoustics, speaker and seating placement, and lifestyle, all matter. Also, bass and dynamics matter a great deal! And you can get that part with lesser expensive gear, that's true. Can't tell you how many times i heard systems improve greatly with proper tubes in tube gear, correct interconnects and wires, better acoustic treatments for a space/ speaker/ acoustics mix, better spreaker placement and, yes, better matchings of gear. Getting special sound DOES require work! I also have often gotten and heard much better overall sound quality performance from properly balanced and executed midfi to entry level hi end audio pieces, because everything is just right in a system! Ive even heard Klipsch, Def Tech powered speakers mated tube gear , and/or affordable Kefs and B&W midfi , mated with rotel and Parasound amplifiers ,and a great front end and setup , sound overall better than mega buck systems!! It takes a TEAM
Uhm... and listener health condition as well.... During or after a cold or a flue, your ears are not exactly in the best conditions to appreciate the smallest nuances of your stereo setup. Frequency reponse does not improve with age. I do not dive, climb mountains or use airplanes frequenlty, but I remember that for a few days after flying from Australia to Europe my ears were not working correclty (and I was less than 30 years old, imagine now). Even high speed trains like those we have in Italy, going about 300 kph, play pressure tricks with your ears, and after a 3 hours trip I need at least 6 - 8 hours to get back to normal. I wonder what happens with those people visiting hi-end shows in far places: do they go from the airport direct to the show? Do they plan to get in town three days before?
Love your videos and have been following you in print media seems like forever. FYI I am 70yo. Would you please address at some point the issue of age and decreasing audio acuity as to the validity of “older” reviewers. We all can’t possibly hear and process the audio input from a given source to the same degree of precision. IMO “best” sounding equipment can only mean a persons own opinion given their auditory imput. Again, BIG FAN.
I think component matching is important, as a better, more revealing system will expose a weak link, especially in a source, which will give an unsatisfactory sound.
The only really expensive speakers I have been impressed with are the jbl synthesis products, everything els was specs and had no musicality to it. My favorite speakers of all time and the best all round speakers IMO are jbl 4311 (all variants of them are great) and the reissue l100, second favorites are QSC kw series.
I don't think that's the only reason. A major component of the sound is the recording itself. And I would say the vast, vast majority of recorded music is not mastered with B&W 800 speakers through a McIntosh in mind. More like bluetooth headphones, smart speakers, car stereos, AVR's, etc. So in fact a lot of stuff may sound WORSE on super hi-fi gear because the Joe Six Pack stuff hides the flaws better while audiophile gear takes a high resolution MRI and shows it to you. So an audiophile always has one foot in Bloomingdale's and the other in Walmart.
A great quality ( you don't have to spend $10,000 for Gods sake ) set of floor standing speakers ( I have Focal 726 ) and a decent amp ( NAD 316 bee ) is in my opinion, the cornerstone of great sounding music. It all begins with the speakers. A lot depends on the music you like and how good - or bad your hearing is.
Stephen Scott I just bought the same speaker (focal 726) to me they sounded better than à 5k$ harbeth (at least at the store) I have Rotel amps I hope it's gonna be as good as a match as I expect
Charlu Go that's awesome! I LOVE my new Focals! They are lifetime keepers. The sound is just perfect to me. Crisp and clear. Perfect bass. Hard to believe they weigh 51 pounds each. Superior French made quality. Take care!
Speakers are of course the main part, but the Acoustic & Room treatment & placement is the most important point in the system. You dont need to wonder why it sounds bad (with a 2000 or 30.000 dollar/eur system) when youve standing waves, plane surfaces and a lot of other problems in your room and no acoustic Treatment. First Acoustic -> Speaker & Source
As a first step to audiophile satisfaction people should throw first the whole concept of neutrality etc. over board...instead they should focus on what really counts, the ability to transmit the soul of music, its emotion to the listener...thats what most systems suck at. Not every cook who has the best ingredients and knows how to Cook them is automatically a 3 Star chef...making components/speakers/systems who are able to communicate the essence of music to the listener is similar and somehow art by itself. Thats why many stuff on the market, regard less of price, is just audiophile fast food and only very very few stuff is like a 3 Star chef Menu ;)
I agree with tossing the idea of neutrality. I have two pairs of speakers. Same price range. Both reviewed as flat and neutral. They sound very different from each other. So how can this be neutral!
Hi Steve. Based on your latest video (16 yrs exp being HEA salesperson), it is obvious what so-called audiophiles' main concern: price, looks, then performance. Performance is very subjective, and many do not want to believe that. That confirms the barometer (in many minds) of good system is PRICE and LOOKS. Overtime, those two parameters are fading, and PERFORMANCE takes the main stage, and they realize the megabucks system sounds less-than-stellar. Yet, people do not want to admit that mistake (after all, they've spent a fortune, think: the emperor's new clothes).
You increase your odds substantially when you buy used as opposed to brand new sound equipment Why?...because your expectations are way lower and of course "the right" & affordably priced vintage gear is candy for the ears
Everyone has their own opinion what is good and it all depends on what your looking for. A Person that listens electronic music will like the sounds of certain components because it complements what he thinks electronic music should sound like. So those components are good sounding to him. He would Probably say these are good components because it does What He wants them to do. Person who listens to classical music will consider certain components are good because those components compliments classical music . those two people would disagree with each other to what sounds good because each one is looking for something different. So when someone says this sounds good . you should asked, what kind of music do you listen to and take it from there. And then there is synergy. Yes the synergy of components working together. Components have to compliment each other to acheive the sound that person wants. For me, I try to listen to live unamplified music and use that as My reference to train my ears . Then we start there. Good video Steve. What is a good sounding Component? A component that Complements your components You have ,to achieve the sound Your looking for.
Steve, I agree with you, but also because something is very, very expensive it does not mean that it's that much better than a reasonable price item. Also the room can make a big difference, like another reader commented.
Steve thats the problem, where i am going to find such experts, especially in towns where there are not good brick an mortar stores. I have a shop in my city that is so small and limited in equipment that I dont really trust they will give me good advice. I wish i had a store in my city with decent inventory, willing to set up equipment at my house or one that would let me loan equipment to test at home. I always end up ordering stuff online that have a return policy and then at least i can test a few brands at the same time. If i were to buy an uber expensive system I would make sure that a professional set up my system.
I remember the "golden age". Just a bunch of stores around with dozens of brands. They would even let you bring in your own equipment to hook up and compare. We used to just go all the time and listen to different equipment. I found it was always better to listen to speakers more than once, sometimes the first impression was wrong.
Opinion which my son gave me is point of middle age generation. He said that speaker enough if sound good but not overestimated,. But body in details must look very expensive. That is why I close my eyes when listen and recall to my imagination biggest expensive speaker sets.
Often high-end audio is not the result of high-end audio engineering but rather use of cosmetically high-end expensive looking materials and components that do absolutely nothing for the quality of the sound. For example, don’t assume using expensive audiophile capacitors can help fix a poor circuit design. Rather, cheap components used carefully in a good circuit design can often sound much better. In fact, from an engineering perspective, you can achieve the ultimate of audio processing with very few carefully chosen parts for DAC, power amp and speakers. A US$ 5 SD card is as excellent a transport for digital music as a US$ 10,000 CD player. Well, actually the cheap SD card is likely better as it doesn’t have the data errors of your scratched CDs that even the most expensive player can’t recover.
I think many audiophiles become obsessed with the " idea " of the perfect sound, and all the technical aspects of the equipment, and forget about their passion for the music. The idea of never being satisfied with your system , and always looking for a better turntable or a better speaker seems to be self defeating. You have a great system , just pull out a reissue LP of Led Zeppelin II and just enjoy...
It's called Heineken.
But opposite too. I would passion for music would dye if I know that I can listen all in common modification . How to enjoy pictures in gallery hall with rainbow glasses?
It's because the shit isn't setup right yet and the owner doesn't know why and keeps buying new shit, all the while it's because of acoustics and super detailed setup that they are not aware of.
This where a solid knowledge of science especially physics and sound comes in.
I love sound and play guitar. But my knowledge on class A B and D etc. and also of tubes and all that SUCK.
A Led Zeppelin record would bore me to tears. Yeah, the band can play their instruments really well but can they actually play music?
Steve nailed it. Thats why it is so important to audition a piece of gear one component at a time in your own system. if you hook up 2 new pieces or more how can you gauge the sound? Which component did what? Belonging to an audio club is also really great, because you can hear components at a members home and even borrow or lend a friend some gear to see if it sounds great before you buy. Make a CD of music of different styles and that you are familiar with, to audition gear whether it's at a dealer or a friends home. AND your home of course.
Steve, the broadness of you experience is why you are so trusted. I like to think of audio in terms of how does it enhance my life, make my coffee taste better, seriously, am I distracted or immersed. My best Aural skills instructor said think of chords quality not their identity. I.e. a fully diminished chord has a mysterious sound. So think of the qualities of sound based on the music you listen to, I think that goes farther then your pocket.
That is also problem - If frequency response is not flat cannot be trusted that proper chords are heard. Some components are masked or accented above other specially when chords are played by different instruments. . That may be the reason why jazz music is desired while listening to audio systems - it has little chance to be masked and thus altered.
An approach I've used that has worked very well for me is to assemble a system akin to a setup by a store whose presentations, both at the store and in their rooms at shows, I've loved listening to; or by manufacturers whose gear I love have assembled for their rooms at shows. Also, my equipment lines together match what other stores (not just the local one that I love) have done, demonstrating how these equipment lines tend to be used together.
So my sources, cabling, electronics, and speakers in both my primary and secondary systems resemble those I've heard and loved, and originally assembled by those much more experienced in this area than me. On those occasions in which I've bought a component not carried by these stores, I've taken the risk following reviews of the gear by those familiar with my other equipment- and these bits of risk have sonically paid off.
How I bought my new speakers: I brought my own speakers to the store for listening comparison, as well as using the same audio system I have at home. Only the cables and of course the room were different. I listened to a whole range of speakers, both in price and in make/type, finally I went home with a set of speakers that were in the lower half of the price range. Because they sounded the best with the system and the difference with my old speakers in sound quality perception was the greatest. Oh and I also set up my own playlist of songs prior to going. So yeah, most expensive does not equal best sound for you.
I just had my space acoustically calibrated and I'm awaiting the report in order to treat the issues. I was quite surprised to hear that the room can affect the sound by 50% or more.
Rafael Escobar I would even day more but it depends on the actual room and possibilities. I have Isophon Cassiano (12 k) and cheap Quadral for $500. My room was completely optimized with room acoustic incl. diffusors and variety of absorbers incl. membrane absorbers for low frequency. The cheap Quadral speakers in my optimized room sounds better than my Isophon in my original room.
Now you know why concert halls were created
I sent this video to my friend, we're 49, I was like, "Bro: you have to check out this guy, he was selling stuff in the late 80s that we were researching and learning about. He knows his stuff, and he's so fun to watch and listen to. Also sometimes he has great shirts."
This right here is why I like Steve, he hasn’t forgotten that hifi isn’t an end in itself. It’s all about the music.
Great statement Steve about cost vs. performance. Also I'm sure as has been mentioned perhaps in other reviews the source music can't be overstated enough. This means if you look at the source you're playing through your high end system if it is lacking your wonderful system doesn't sound a lot better than the much less expensive one you used to have. Records, bit files, tapes etc.etc. unless they are mastered properly so much of it is produced poorly and I guess that meets what the overwhelming majority of the market is satisfied with.
That’s why you should buy gear that is as neutral as possible, not colored . If your premise is true it would make it very hard for you to review equipment without changing out your whole setup to match whatever DAC you may be reviewing
Love your show
Nonsense
Neutral? As compared to 'what'?
I agree, I have found that speakers designed around solid state may sound indistinct with tubes, and that's only one example of component interaction. Source components, cables, amplification and speakers must be matched carefully for optimal sound.
Hanging around with audiophiles over the years made me understand that everyone’s definition of great is different. Some care about harmonics, for others it’s the soundstage…I knew a guy that wanted to hear the saliva in the singers mouth for a system to be good. It’s different for everybody, but to be honest, it’s a gear hobby. The sound audiophiles seek really can’t be found in live settings, for the most part. Everything is amplified, even in small venues. But, so be it. If it sounds good to you (and looks good…a big part of the super high end - IMHO) then it IS great.
If you like that sophisticated Kid Koala record, you may want to check out another instrumental record by J Dilla called "Donuts." Blows me away every listen.
John Mays I would add Flying Lotus' seminal album Los Angeles and DJ Shadow Endtroducing to that list as well. Although wouldn't be surprised if Steve's heard of the latter before.
Both are great recordings
I have built nice systems for people and the first thing they do is pop in a CD from the 80's and they say "Why does this sound so bad ?" So I play a good quality recording and they say "Thats what I wan't my 80's CD's to sound like . " And I have to tell them there were very very few quality recordings back then . So now I make a point of telling them "If you have a bad recording the best system can't make it good , it will only bring out the bad points even more . People need to know what it takes to reproduce good sound and I tell them you have to start with good sound , any system will only sound as good as what you put in it . But the good news is everything sounds better today than the 80's for the most part . Your right the components need to be matched to get a balanced sound . It's like building a racing engine all the parts have to work together to get the most power . Good video .
I got a Koala mattress ad. Looks like the algorithm saw "DJ Kid Koala's 12 Bit Blues"
"..don't sound great.."
Ok. *great* doesn't necessarily mean the same thing to everyone.
For instance, some people like detail as their main criteria in judging a system.
Others love a coherent organic sound in which, music is reproduced as a 'sum of' rather than individual instruments.
Yet, another groups priority is soundstage width and depth, while a few love the bass heavy "club" sound.
I belong to the first group personally and so, any system that doesn't give me that sounds pretty ordinary.
So, yes synergy is important, however the target has to be defined before making a judgment IMHO.
Leporello Gatos
For me great sound means occasionally I am puzzled what is happening. As when I presented Rodger Waters to my friend and in a second from start (never mind speakers) in front he upset shouted "what Is heard"? .
I know what you're saying and understand what you think. But people who say stuff like this probably haven't heard really good system.
Because when you hear it you know. Really you know.
"Others love a coherent organic sound in which, music is reproduced as a 'sum of' rather than individual instruments."
Good description of my personal taste :)
A great comment. We (humans) love different things with varying intensities. Unfortunately, there is one thing that the vast majority of us absolutely love: being right and calling those who think differently fools.
Some people are in hi-end and spend good money (group A), some are not and spend their money in other ways (group B). Many people from group A will address those from group B as "deaf" or "envious". From group B those belonging to A will be called "fools", "idiots", "snake oil buyers". Now, if you are not happy with your setup, improve it. If you are happy, just shut up and listen to the music! Do we always have to judge what other people think?
Im an audio engineer and I’ve notice that most of the hifi nerds doesn’t care enough about acoustics in the room. I wonder how you can get a 100k stereo and skip the acoustic part? And if the room now is treated it’s almost never enough. I bet a 1000 dollar system sounds better in a well treated room then a 100k system in a bad treated room. Another thing I’ve noticed: why really thick cables to the jack? Are there super thick cables at the other side of the wall to the power station?
I’ve seen this ridiculous super tiny acoustic panels on sticks with super small “special mad” tiny wood discs that “will improve the acoustics tremendously”. Has not anyone measured the actual result? I guess most audio-files only wanna throw away money on nice designed things and don’t really care that much of the sound
Truth!
I can agree from what I see. This is the big reason there is close field monitors. To get up close and personal to all the sound with out the volume being so loud it creates room problems from your perception. Minimum room treatments can work depending on the room.
My system has been pieced together over 20+yrs (a flatmate back in the 90's had an awesome sounding system (he had Rogers speakers and a Cyrus amp if memory serves) that convinced me to go separates rather than one-box).
Anyway, I've always bought-without-hearing and been happy with what I've ended up with even though I've stayed at the cheap end. I'm not an audiophile though, obviously. Apart from the budget I don't have the ears for it.
I'll admit to being a bit of a videophile though.
My system now revolves around a higher-end plasma that is absolutely glorious. Honestly, things like LeMan 24hr racing and Glastonbury absolutely pop. So I upgraded my amp from stereo to AV to take advantage of it even though I was never planning to go full surround (budget again). It's a Pioneer and it has an auto-setup microphone attachment that picks up a bunch of test sounds put out by the receiver which then makes speaker adjustments automatically.
I have to say, the difference between direct and adjusted sound is mmmmyoodge.
The sound comes through a pair of Mission floorstanders which are naturally lively but using the setup mic seems to even it out (with a little bit of manually added base). As I say, the difference is significant.
Anyway, all of my set up is cheap. The whole caboodle (plasma, floor-standers, receiver, blu-ray, AppleTV) comes in under £1500, which feels like a lot of performance for cheap(ish), to me anyway.
But seriously, that little plasticky setup mic that probably cost a buck-n-a-half is an amazing tool. Worth its weight in gold (about two-bucks-n-a-half lol)
I have assembled a very modest system that most would consider low-end. Fluance RT-85 with the Ortodon 2M Blue (2M Mono cart for my mono vinyl collection), Mofi StudioPhono phono stage, Schiit Saga+ (soon to be a Freya+ when my backorder arrives), and for my digital path, a Schiit Bifrost 2. My speakers are just AudioEngine A5+ active bookshelfers with an AudioEngine sub (volume on sub is as low as it can go while still being detectable). I'm in a low-ceiling, narrow room with old barn boards for wall panels. I have one speaker on an IsoAcoustics stand on the same piece of furniture right next to the turntable and only a foot off the wall at best. The other speaker is about 8 feet to the right on a snare drum stand with a rubber/wood snare practice pad, and it's in front of an open doorway, although I put the speaker back on an IsoAcoustic stand on the table when not in use, so we can walk through the doorway. Haha! The speakers are slightly toed-in and at the perfect height for my listening position on the couch. I have no other options for placing my gear in the room without majorly rearranging all of our furniture and negatively impacting my marriage. Academically, I'm sure most would say I have low-end gear in a sub-optimal room setup, but to me, it sounds absolutely amazing! Even my wife is often blown away at how the music completely surrounds us and how crystal clear it is, and she could give a crap about audio gear. I listen to my system a minimum of two hours every day, and if my wife leaves me home alone at night, I can easily sit down and listen for six straight hours (or more), especially when I'm drinking bourbon. I will continue to experiment and swap out gear because it's fun. I plan on getting a 2M Black cart soon, and after the Freya and rolling in some GE and Sylvania tubes I just got, I plan on trying out the Elac Navis ARB-51 actives running balanced XLR from the Bifrost and out from the Freya. However, if I was told I could never change a single component for the rest of my life, in this room setup, I'd be perfectly happy. I absolutely love listening to my system. And in the end, for me, it's more about the music collection I've curated and just enjoying the music. Cheers audio fans!
the only thing you should upgrade are your speakers. I had them. Recently upgraded to integrated amp and passive speakers like I used to have. Definitely a more hi-fi system. And you don't need massively expensive gear. Yamaha, Klipsch, Polk, etc is still great sounding
True. Go to audio shows and listen to really high end systems ... They sound good ... But $50,000 good? Most of the time no.
Well audio show set-ups inside an exhibition stall or hotel room have the odds stacked against them.
true i had before i was really amazed with the system high end audio but when i test them my god i really quite dissapointed that was not good what i expected
Really expensive is $250,000 lol
agreed Steve , I have a friend who recently purchased a complete system based on reviews . Speakers Vandies 3 sig series which many say sound amazing but frankly the entire thing sounds sterile to me . Very well rated set of monoblocks driving the show but use bi polar output devices which I find to be a bit sterile or not warm . Very good pre , dac ect… All used gear but well over 10k invested . Like you mentioned it is a matter of taste but over the years I have mixed and matched many amp/pre /speaker combinations , most vintage and have found myself personally drawn to late 70s luxman power amps or Nelson Pass gear , both with their own strong points . Warm , open , articulate layered imaging with good low end control . Current speakers , amp , modded tube pre , all bought used comes in under 2500$ and I haven't found anything more to my taste at 10x the price. All about match up .
A couple of factors left out:
1- You don't mention the room acoustics. Even if you select eqpt as you suggest the room dynamics could screw up the results.
2- Based on the video and my above comment, the salesman would need to visit the environment it will be used in or get a very good description (with pics) of the room. I had a supposed expert evaluate a room for the eqpt I wanted, he agreed, and the main speakers were a disaster because of a high ceiling. I switched from in-wall M-L Edge speakers (now presence spkrs) to floor standing Klipsch Heresy 1 (rebuilt & updated) speakers and all is good (an expensive mistake). The wife also had to be taken into account.
3- I still believe in the old adage, "put your money into your speakers, everything else will change with time". I purchased some Klipsch Forte II's in 1989 and I still use them today. They have been used with H-K separates in the '90's and 3 different Yamaha A/V amps. The speakers had some updating a couple of years back and sound as great today as they did new.
I have to admit that I have never been an audiophile, but I greatly appreciate your videos. The information and humor you offer are well worth the subscription. I do suspect that you would hate my old '70's Sylvania receiver and air suspension speakers, though. If it helps, I have an old Nikko hooked up to some Wards Airline speakers in another room.
Nah some of those 70s systems are a force mot to be reckoned with. Some will blow todays stuff put of the water.
The one video I totally agree with you on. Its about Synergy and proper matching. Everything has its own sonic signature its combining equipment that complement one another and work well together properly. ALSO very important is system setup. The system is only as good as the setup and calibration. You can have all the best gear but you will never hear its potential if it isn't setup properly. It takes some years to understand and prefect.
but even in the store, let's say there are 20 different IC cables, 20 different speaker tables, 20 different preamps, 20 different stereo amps, 20 different monos, 20 different CD players, 20 different streamers, 20 different digital cables. the total number of combinations with a streamer in the chain is 20 x 20 x 20 x 20 x 20 x 20 x 20 = 1 billion 280 million. If the store worker can hook up a combination in 15min, he can try 30 combinations per day or 600 per month or 7000 per year. Thus, he would need 182,857 years to try all combinations of the devices that are currently in the store.
How big that number is it is sufficient to say that in approximately that number of years all things on Earth that have been made ever, e.g. electronics, plants, bridges, everything, would cease to exist all by itself with no trace left.
what this tells us is that high end audio is a fiction
this is so true
i have spent 30 years in the audio business and the penchant for people with a ton of money to buy BADGES or LABELS and then they put the system together and it sounds average
of course they will always say its the best system as they have heaps invested so their ego will never admit that its not as good as the price should dictate
what i loved most was tailoring a system for my clients and seeing the joy on their face when it sounded amazing
plus i got to deliver it , set it up and spend time listening to music
its a bit of an art and not everyone can do it , but the best of us can do it and do it very very well
Kid Koala is awesome! His live performances are fabulous. It’s pronounced like Koala Bear.
The ones that bring up the quality of the recording are bringing up a given and obvious part of the equation. My experience has been when an expensive system sounds bad is because it typically either isn’t set up properly or the room is bad and needs a lot of treatments to help. Many times it is booth.
I was under the impression that changing one piece of gear at a time was best since you started with a reference. Changing one thing at a time would instantly change the sound for the better or worse and you of course would know what you did.
4:20 I just streamed Kid Koala (same album) and the first track has got some low bass. When I stand at a corner in my room I can hear an UNDERTONE (like not many hertz). Awesome!
My choice for sound demos are in a personal collection I bring with me to the store. jazz pieces and classical and organ music like Bach. I've listened to a lot of live jazz and live classical and the different instruments played are quite familiar. I judge sound systems and speakers on that basis and the the sound staging, accuracy of tonality and timbre are important to me in determining the quality of sound. It works well for me. Once again I enjoyed the honest review.
Ya, for sure, system synergy is key, but sometimes you get a component that just pops, and everything just sounds great. Your taste in music and the aspects of the sound you value the most/what you find musically engaging is going to be a key driver in the type of equipment you'll be looking for.
Hi Steve. Love your videos. What are your thoughts on Mark Levinson. Specifically their 33H amplifiers?
I still use an 80's Technics SL1610 Mk2 ( quite rare these days ) a decent cartridge, a 20 year old Yamaha amp, a 20 year old Marantz CD67 Mk2 Ki, good quality inter connects, good heavy QED speak cable all coupled to a pair of 35 year old KEF floorstanders. None of which is anywhere near Hi End audio! But all correctly placed, connected and most importantly the speakers are 'toe'd' in just the right amount. All used in a low and long living room. For some reason it all sounds really great. Even my long time Audiophile friends always comment on how good it sounds and the fact that it should not sound quite as good as it does!
Often -I think- it is about room placement, room acoustics and sometimes just a bit of luck!
Indeed. After 50 years John Atkinson hasn't found an amplifier he wants to buy for his system :-D
Very challenging. This is becoming a major exploration, encompassing many variables. I suppose some systems excel at presenting the human voice, while others instrumentals, some are more adept presenting live performance recordings than others, and on and on. Matching components promises to be a mind boggling exercise. Best to move slowly and carefully.
This is way late on this review but I just saw this. I thought I liked to make my own way but in recent years I realized there was people that already went through the same things and understood what I finally came to understand how I expect music to sound.
Great video and great explanation of this issue! I've also noticed that I like the sound of my "thrift store" hi fi system over my friend's very expensive Pioneer system. He has all 70's silverface Pioneer equipment and all of it matches. It was all meant to work together and he picked it out that way. It does sound great don't get me wrong, but mine just sounds better to me. It sounds more focused, warmer, and has a more balanced sound. His sounds very open and airy which is nice but it's a bit harsh and bright a lot of the time. It might just be how he has it dialed in for his taste but I really wasn't impressed. It looks amazing but doesn't sound amazing.
When the record is being made, they are using Neve or API preamps through systems that are designed to sound flat as possible. But on audiophile playback systems often the preamps cost as much as the studio the source material was originally recorded on. Playing it back through the original type of preamps sound the best.
This is not correct. The systems are designed to be super flat, but the apis. And neves are used for their color, you shouldn't use them for playback at home, it would just double up on the color. Just find something that sounds nice and listen to albums you like.
This is why you need an upstairs system, and a downstairs system. And a garage/workout room system. Mix 'n match, promote this, send that downstairs. Check once in a while to make sure the first string sounds better than the second string. Bring in that old Something from the garage, see if it still sucks.
The HiFi shop is rarer now. System building in the Uk was done using a narrow palette. The japanese equipment was passed over because it had a different palette. So, budget japanese gear was one strand of buying and British cottage industry brands another. There was stuff that was forged in broadcast and recording studios. All built to a price in a time of austerity and owned by a few. Ivor Tiefenbrun and Julian Vereker with Linn and Naim created a front end first system building philosophy with internalised upgrading pathways. Between them they ruled the ecosystem and spawned me too pretenders. Then Ricardo Franassovici brought in American products and another palette of sound appeared. So system building was about which palette. Which dealer. Which budget. The high end vs cottage industry over achievers. The shops and the hi fi press are less present and it easy to buy but harder to audition. Upgrade paths come from shops. Breadth of choice comes from browsing the internet. Advice is thin on the ground. System building is more haphazard. Almost all equipment is good. Nothing much is wrong. The difficulties arise because the health of the system depends on bandwidth, room size, ancillaries, stands, set up. All of which need expertise and patience. People now buy from a range of high performing gear from every type of manufacturer. The enthusiasts put time into making it all work properly. Others buy the brands everyone raves about and assemble them in a room without accepting that systems need setting up, adjusting and ancillaries applied to make them work.
Great sounding album Steve. I have never heard mixing combined with blues before but this guy knows his stuff. Have you listened to Blue Hawaii?
That's the reason I like active speakers. If you found a pair of active speakers that match perfectly with your taste then It's like hitting a gold mine. In a good active speakers, everything is already well engineered and went through enough thought.
Any recommendations?
ATC
LS50W
Col. Angus Devialet Phantom Gold
Active speakers don't have perfectly black background and are so much influenced from other electronics on power lines.
I built the core of my system over 20 years ago and it was all based on the best deals that I could swing at the time. More than 20 years later my core system remains unchanged because I got it right the first time. Aerial Acoustics 10Ts driven by Krell KMA-160 monoblocks fed from a Pioneer Elite C90 preamp or an Audio Research LS2 line stage, and as for the CD or other source, I've never found that the differences in sound quality between CD players (etc) were ever great enough for me to be able to heap high praise on one and condemn another as trash. I did pay attention to room acoustics and setup. At this moment I still love this very system and am listening to it now. It has always been musical. I've heard 300,000 dollar systems that were not very much better. To me, the basis of a great system is the speakers and a room that matches well to them. Past that point everything else has a lesser effect.
Yes - as has been addressed in previous postings, the recording productions vary on different systems. But if the system (to you) sounds horrible no matter what you play on it - then yea chances are the components just don't marry well or do well in the space you have it in (unless you don't have it hooked up right in a very fundemental way).Or the sound you wanted is just not going to happen with what you threw at the system you came up with. Musically, certain electric guitars don't really get brought out in the best ways on certain amplifiers, with or without intended distortion (subjectivity not withstanding) - certain pedals are not taken to well by certain amps either. So - there is plenty of room for error for certain components not being a good match with others - and then some components just stink period.
I think home theater had a hand in that a great deal because it destroyed rack systems, all the specs matched perfectly, the more money you spent, the better the sound quality and it was strictly about music, once the TV became involved everything changed at least for the audiophiles that can't afford high end setups
First time I totally agree with you. Its system synergy. Everything must complement one another. Just being expensive there is a art to know if they work together well. It takes someone with years of experience to design, setup and calibrate a system to get it to sound good.
Can I point out that is not always the equipment but the room it’s played in.
I’ve heard people listen to or audition as they say the hifi on the shop show room or sound rooms. The people say that’s brilliant buy it, set it up at home and play it and it sounds different! That’s the fault of the sales man for not asking the right questions about room size furnishings etc!
Being a ex-professional sound. Engineer my self I too have made mistakes, rather looking at the tech but not how to present it to perform at its best.
But anyway excellent video
I love all the comments. I was on a famous forum with all these opinions. One day I was curious about what the deal was with all the opinions, I than asked these same people to post a video of their system playing. Crickets..............................How many people have really done the work. Not many. Most big watt and big speaker systems suck. About half of high end is aimed and people who will never listen to it.
The world of high performance consumer audio has changed enormously over the past few decades. Up through the 1990s, one could enter most high end shops with a chance of being able to compare and audition gear in all different price ranges. Shops had a selection of music on more than one medium, and plenty of it. One could bring one's own music as well. There was typically more than one listening room with a variety of equipment in each room. The rooms were usually set up with a price range for each room, i.e. entry level, medium, and if you have to ask you can't afford it. Before the 1990s, super expensive gear was a rarity. This was mainly due to dealers purchasing in quantity so that manufacturers could produce in wholesale quantities. This was how dealers added value, and by servicing the customer's needs. Better dealers even stocked more than one demo of each component so customers could take a demo or two home for better evaluation.
Today, one is lucky to find anything on display at a dealer, let alone stay for any meaningful audition. Dealers don't stock product, either. Instead, dealers prefer to at most keep a single demo of each manufacturers product line, and they expect the customer to know what they like so the dealer can drop ship to the customer direct from the manufacturer. The dealer does not demo product. The dealer does not enable economies of scale. The dealer adds little or no value to the product. Many dealers also have bad attitudes. As a result, a number of manufacturers won't even sell through dealers at all. The better companies allow a thirty day in home trial with free or low cost return shipping if the customer is not satisfied. Since in home trial is a great way to audition, this strategy can work, but one is limited to one or two components at a time.
There is still a great variety of audio equipment available, and even a few good dealers left who are enthusiastic about helping customers. One has to do some work, just like years ago, to find equipment which one likes and that works well together. One starts out by doing some reading. One attempts to find dealers who have equipment that seems to be well reviewed. One finds other people who have purchased equipment of interest and obtains their opinion or visits them to audition the equipment if one can do so. After narrowing down one's choices, one makes purchases of chosen equipment and hopes that one's research is accurate. After purchase, one can always trade a piece of gear one is not satisfied with and deal with the financial loss. Or one can just be happy with less than perfect sound and just understand that no audio system is ever perfect.
It is best to make a commitment to purchasing great gear and biting the bullet on the financial end once. This will increase one's chance of putting together a system which will satisfy one's desire to have a quality, long lasting audio system which one will be happy with for a long time.
Do you think audioquest is overpriced for cables? also do you recommend audioquest for premium cables. or you would stick to traditional cables that are maybe $30 or or more depending?
I always says Hifi is a super hard stuff... it took me more than 10 years to have a system where I can say, ok it's pretty good, not perfect but pretty good. People have no reference of what a super good system is...
Probably first, find one, get a big punch in your face and learn humility... and then work hard to get close to it... or well, the closer you can !
And well, how do you know when you are facing a super great system ??? You'll know... and everything you thought you knew will colapse at the same time...
Agreed- well said. Who has ever been in a brick and mortar hi end-( I mean )-Krell and Mcintosh/VPI/Martin Logan electrostatic's- I have maybe 15k worth of gear and have no disillusion that I am sub-par to that sound by a good margin.
Francois-Xavier GONNET , ten years for an entire equipment? It took me ten years to understand the real greatness of an Ortofon head! Hi fi gives you real satisfaction if you are lucky too! Digital guys will never understand this kind of things! But that is the price of the game...
I understand you... well, for me it was 10 years to be happy... I still have things to improve but the balance of performance in my system is pretty good. I can have better, but with a much bigger price tag, or with far less "user friendly" equipment !
IGNORANCE IS BLISS!
il Nativo analogico vinilico, I disagree, there are endless tweeks on the digital end, too. DACs and opamp rolling is every bit as extensively difficult and varied as phono cartridge and phono preamp stuff is.
Steve, it is really nice to finally see you "in person". Been reading many of your articles in the last 15 years! I am an audiophile wannabe and would like to know if the Polk LSIM 707 speakers are "audiophile-grade". Also, are the 707s very "power-hunger"? Can an 80-watt stereo receiver such as the Pioneer Elite SX-N30 adequately power the Polks? Your long-time fan.
Those are certainly "audiophile" to many people, it is all relative. That amp would probably work OK but not quite ideal.
Polka Lsim speakers are overpriced junk I had a pair paid 2k for the display model very small sweet spot and they blow easily.
Absolutely, 100% correct. Thanks Steve!
I can explain exactly why that is:
1. Most gear at audio shows is new, meaning that it usually has to go through about 100 hours at least, before the sound gets more distinct/less vague/evolves. At lot of new gear is inconsistent, reserved and does not fully show what it can do so early. And only about 1% of the gear at shows, is demo gear. The rest is basically brand spanking new. (that means that all the the better gear is really hiding it's potential)
2. Plus better gear, usually also opens up for a lot more to happen, meaning that it invites a lot of good and bad interaction with units/components...
3. Plus the rooms are like you said in one of your previous videos, very big and the floors are very active and there is a huge distance that most people do not at home have from the speakers to the wall many times. This again confuses things.
4. Again a huge part of the problem is that, more and more brands are streaming music. This means that, depending on if it is good or bad gear, that will react very differently to the noise/clock on the streamer/router/DAC. Almost no one in the world deals with these problems, so it could actually make a lot of bad systems sounds better than the really good ones. Because the bad ones are in a more safe kind of grove way, and the better system is more exposed to the noise.
5. Plus you have to remember that these are usually business people displaying different sounds together, that do not always go together. But they have to do so to advertize for their shops.
In conclusion, all the gear is held back and mostly only playing at 10-20% of it's full potential. That is why you only get a taste for what it is like. It is a lot like seeing a car at a dealership, and never learning how it actually drives in real life.
There are also many other considerations like people are also used to their own sound, and that is what they compare it too. And that many shows only have gear at a very low level, even though is it expensive. Plus most expense things don't actually sound a hell of a lot better. Only about 10% do. And most that do, arent going to be at the local small shows.
Hey Steve are you aware of the live setup they have at the winery in Northern California? But of course, it is outside, and thousands of watts. So not achievable for the average. But this thing, when I saw Howard Jones and other bands there, I could not believe the astonishing fidelity of the presentation. It was obviously made by people who understood the environment, and there was a cohesive sense of, this sound fits this space and my goodness the resolution of some of those sounds, I heard them like I always thought the best sound system would deliver them. And that's an example of matching the . . . thing we worship, to the sound that it recreates itself in.
Many high end systems get the resolution versus timbre and transient response balance skewed. If resolution is prioritised at all costs against the expense of the other two factors, then the overall sound will be pixilated with harsh leading edges of notes, an expensive non-musical mess. For example, I am estimating the following combination of individually high quality components would often lead to such a result: Chord Dac + Musical Fidelity amp + Focal speakers.
Well, and now 4 years later the market is filled with active full range speakers with bit perfect streaming and room correction (KEF Ls60, Dynaudio Focus etc) built in. Any yes after hearing Dynaudio Focus 50, they outperform +90%of the systems with a higher total cost - at least +90%.
They have been Hypnotized by the audio salesman and he chants " this is the best system you have ever heard"... LOL
think best to buy units from one company you are familiar with- NAD Parasound etc.- buy speakers you love and be able to get your money back if your're not delighted...
Im looking to buy a vintage early 70's solid wood floor console stereo. What would you recommend I should look for in a hi end unit? Im watching craigslist every day, but most models look like Sears brand or maybe a gerrard or Dual setup, but still not the quality I am looking for.
You confirm my observations when i serviced very expensive systems......often the owners ask what i thought of their system......HAHA.....that was the first clue and when the system was powered on i knew the why of their question ......The bought illusions with money in place of coherence and musical satisfaction.....at horrendous prices .....
OR they get rid of the one good piece of equipment that put the finger on the problems and accused it for the failure of their system.
Well i'm a fan of buying components separately. My setup is all used and i didnt have time for going hundreds of kilometers to first audition 20 year old CD etc . So is IT sounding better than my previous setup? Yes.
An amplifier should be simply an amplifier, take an input make it louder, period. I have a Carver AV 705x and it's quiet, powerful and does what it's suposed to do. The pre-amp had the most impact on the quality of the sound of my system. When I upgraded to a Marantz av7005 from my older Rotel the change was apparent.
I dunno, the one thing I felt should have more emphasis here is the room itself. Too many spend enormous money on gear, but do nothing when it comes to finding the best positition for the gear or in other ways improving the room. (diffusion etc)
I could not agree more! I don't know how many times I've been disappointed, let down while the owner raves and raves! About what? Flat, neutral, detailed sound that doesn't sound like music! But, I've also heard systems that belonged to people who experimented for years and years, swapping pieces, cables, Dacs, cartridges, speakers, pre-amps, amps, etc. And they still sound soulless! Rarely, very rarely do you hear something the screams WOW! And, even then, you come back in a week or two and suddenly it DOES NOT wow you anymore, it's just good! I believe there is a newness surprise curve, where if you hear something you've never heard that's "good" the first time it is a WOW. But once experienced it quickly devolves into a "good"! lol That's life.Kinda like Woody's (via Groucho's) I wouldn't want to be a member of any club that would have me as a member. I think AUDIO is riddled with this conundrum. Once it's yours the wow fades and it just sounds good enough! Because the next WOW is around the corner. And humans and their ears are so FICKLE!
One of your better videos because your correct. Like you said just buying expensive equipment does not guarantee you a good sounding system. Its a synergy with the whole system. And even then if you bought all the right pieces then it MUST be setup and calibrated properly in order for it to sound good and resolve the detail the system is capable of. So yes if you dont know what your are doing and a expert in high end audio you will want to find someone who is. Either a audio specialists at one of the high end audio stores, or a audiophile who has been at this for many years.
I was very shocked that Steve didn't mention room treatment... that is more of a deciding factor than what he acknowledges here.
You are right when you say that the salesman of a brick and mortar store knows really what's great and what is mediocre but for the other hand, this person has to earn for a living and he/she probably has many compromises with the suppliers so in the end... who can one really trust on? Experience, personal experience is the way, and what makes so fascinating this thing called hi-fi, foremost at the beginning of the journey.
Salvador Rodenas
The simple solution is to go to multiple dealers, tell them your situation and your budget. That way, you get to compare the best recommendation rather than just random products. Don't be surprised if someone recommends keeping what you have and upgrading a different Co potent. When I sold hi-fi, I always had multiple products within a given price range for customers to compare. I also didn't work on commission.
Couldn't have said it better myself. When you work in the industry (for me 20+ years) you just know what works and what doesn't.
I've never heard a megabucks system. That's probably a good thing cuz then I'd want it. The thing about this hobby, is that there isn't a blue print for great sonics! There are so many variables involved that two identical audio systems at different locations will not sound the same. The way it sounds at the hi fi shop will probably not be the way it sounds at home. I read tons of online reviews once I decide what I'm buying and if the reviews align with my goals then that's the route I take. It takes alot of trial and error, alot of different gear and many hours to get your system to sound the way you like it. There's no easy method, if there is, I haven't found it and I've been at this for many years!
A megasystem in the wrong room will sound like crap though, certainly if the room is just too small for it.
LOL. It is not "how they work together". Its the ROOM!!!!!!!! It's the room you put them in!!!!
Bingo. And the listening position in relation.
Yes well its that and the system. Both.
Yeah there needs to be a synergy of components. The room will help or really hurt it. I have a pretty expensive stereo in my studio that doesnt one up my old AR M1's , my new speakers were 8k. Its the room.
Conventional speakers have a 180° dispersion pattern. In my case Hybrid Electrostat would be the best case scenario, because they more or less beam the sound and dont have all the side wave diffraction.
Agreed. #1 the speakers; #2 room corrections; #3 the mix.
Gutenberg is off the mark.
I spent about $3500 between 1977 and '79 for a decent system that still sounds terrific. One thing we must remember everyone's ears are different. I know people who prefer the sound coming from the speaker of their 9 inch tablet to any stereo system, they claim to not hear any difference. I believe no two folks hear hings the same.
Sasha, Airdrawndagger. Electronic music, but very diverse, well put together, technical and you'll appreciate the soundstaging. This is not dance style, more house/trance and more complicated. An album worth hearing if your curious, my opinion, his best and a pinnacle piece for other artists as well. Dynamics for days as well!
Spot on Steve.
Listened to front ends that were three times the price I do have but totally underwhelming performance at the time and place.
That happens all the time. Only trust your ears.
He's right, it's synergy that matters I had a guy here that totally sold his Wilson watts for the Tympani I , I have. He didn't even hesitate 😂
Expensive doesn't mean good performance, it's understanding what speaker will fit and perform in the given space and complement of components that will make that happen.
Hi Steve, how about a system from the same brand? Example, a Marantz receiver, CD player, streamer and turntable or by the Cambridge audio brand. Would that type of setup have a better chance of playing together well? Have a nice day!
I enjoy this channel because it reinforces the joy of my audiophile ignorance. I have some component systems around the house and they all sound okay to me, even playing Spotify 😲
Steve that's wrong and right. If you buy components that have a "sound" then you have to balance it out. But it's actually wrong. Buy components that sound natural, sound musical and don't have any real eccentricities. Yes I know it takes time. It took me two years to select a system, listening at dealers and at trade shows with my CDs. If you buy a natural, musical system there is nothing to balance out really and you can upgrade with confidence.
When you upgrade try to take your equipment along to the dealer (e.g. your CD player) or bring the amp you are considering, in your living room for a trial. And of course your own CDs.
Story reminds me way back when, probable 25 yrs ago, went to a home (CL ad) to buy a NAD Amp. and walk into this guys living room and there it was floor to ceiling wall to wall (Just like Grateful Dead in early 70's) speakers, different sizes, mfg. and like you say it sounded...............................Ehhhhhhhhh.
No no..its mostly true! System synergy, room acoustics, speaker and seating placement, and lifestyle, all matter. Also, bass and dynamics matter a great deal! And you can get that part with lesser expensive gear, that's true.
Can't tell you how many times i heard systems improve greatly with proper tubes in tube gear, correct interconnects and wires, better acoustic treatments for a space/ speaker/ acoustics mix, better spreaker placement and, yes, better matchings of gear.
Getting special sound DOES require work!
I also have often gotten and heard much better overall sound quality performance from properly balanced and executed midfi to entry level hi end audio pieces, because everything is just right in a system! Ive even heard Klipsch, Def Tech powered speakers mated tube gear , and/or affordable Kefs and B&W midfi , mated with rotel and Parasound amplifiers ,and a great front end and setup , sound overall better than mega buck systems!!
It takes a TEAM
Uhm... and listener health condition as well.... During or after a cold or a flue, your ears are not exactly in the best conditions to appreciate the smallest nuances of your stereo setup. Frequency reponse does not improve with age. I do not dive, climb mountains or use airplanes frequenlty, but I remember that for a few days after flying from Australia to Europe my ears were not working correclty (and I was less than 30 years old, imagine now). Even high speed trains like those we have in Italy, going about 300 kph, play pressure tricks with your ears, and after a 3 hours trip I need at least 6 - 8 hours to get back to normal.
I wonder what happens with those people visiting hi-end shows in far places: do they go from the airport direct to the show? Do they plan to get in town three days before?
Best video so far. Most high end systems get to a point where they are trying to be so neutral to appease “audiophiles”.
Revel comes to mind. Lost all musicality for neutrality.
Love your videos and have been following you in print media seems like forever. FYI I am 70yo. Would you please address at some point the issue of age and decreasing audio acuity as to the validity of “older” reviewers. We all can’t possibly hear and process the audio input from a given source to the same degree of precision. IMO “best” sounding equipment can only mean a persons own opinion given their auditory imput. Again, BIG FAN.
I think component matching is important, as a better, more revealing system will expose a weak link, especially in a source, which will give an unsatisfactory sound.
I went back to full range speaker and passive sub! No fuss and it sounds great!
The only really expensive speakers I have been impressed with are the jbl synthesis products, everything els was specs and had no musicality to it. My favorite speakers of all time and the best all round speakers IMO are jbl 4311 (all variants of them are great) and the reissue l100, second favorites are QSC kw series.
Hey Steve. Why don't you try and possibly review the much raved about Loxjie A10 amplifier?
I don't think that's the only reason. A major component of the sound is the recording itself. And I would say the vast, vast majority of recorded music is not mastered with B&W 800 speakers through a McIntosh in mind. More like bluetooth headphones, smart speakers, car stereos, AVR's, etc. So in fact a lot of stuff may sound WORSE on super hi-fi gear because the Joe Six Pack stuff hides the flaws better while audiophile gear takes a high resolution MRI and shows it to you. So an audiophile always has one foot in Bloomingdale's and the other in Walmart.
A great quality ( you don't have to spend $10,000 for Gods sake ) set of floor standing speakers ( I have Focal 726 ) and a decent amp ( NAD 316 bee ) is in my opinion, the cornerstone of great sounding music. It all begins with the speakers. A lot depends on the music you like and how good - or bad your hearing is.
Stephen Scott I just bought the same speaker (focal 726) to me they sounded better than à 5k$ harbeth (at least at the store) I have Rotel amps I hope it's gonna be as good as a match as I expect
Charlu Go that's awesome! I LOVE my new Focals! They are lifetime keepers. The sound is just perfect to me. Crisp and clear. Perfect bass. Hard to believe they weigh 51 pounds each. Superior French made quality. Take care!
Stephen Scott Yep!!
Speakers are of course the main part, but the Acoustic & Room treatment & placement is the most important point in the system. You dont need to wonder why it sounds bad (with a 2000 or 30.000 dollar/eur system) when youve standing waves, plane surfaces and a lot of other problems in your room and no acoustic Treatment. First Acoustic -> Speaker & Source
As a first step to audiophile satisfaction people should throw first the whole concept of neutrality etc. over board...instead they should focus on what really counts, the ability to transmit the soul of music, its emotion to the listener...thats what most systems suck at. Not every cook who has the best ingredients and knows how to Cook them is automatically a 3 Star chef...making components/speakers/systems who are able to communicate the essence of music to the listener is similar and somehow art by itself. Thats why many stuff on the market, regard less of price, is just audiophile fast food and only very very few stuff is like a 3 Star chef Menu ;)
I agree with tossing the idea of neutrality. I have two pairs of speakers. Same price range. Both reviewed as flat and neutral. They sound very different from each other. So how can this be neutral!
Hi Steve. Based on your latest video (16 yrs exp being HEA salesperson), it is obvious what so-called audiophiles' main concern: price, looks, then performance. Performance is very subjective, and many do not want to believe that. That confirms the barometer (in many minds) of good system is PRICE and LOOKS. Overtime, those two parameters are fading, and PERFORMANCE takes the main stage, and they realize the megabucks system sounds less-than-stellar. Yet, people do not want to admit that mistake (after all, they've spent a fortune, think: the emperor's new clothes).
You increase your odds substantially when you buy used as opposed to brand new sound equipment
Why?...because your expectations are way lower and of course "the right" & affordably priced vintage gear is candy for the ears
Cool
It's pronounced like the Australian animal Koala. Nice to see you review Hip Hop. Kid Koala has been around for some time.
Everyone has their own opinion what is good and it all depends on what your looking for. A Person that listens electronic music will like the sounds of certain components because it complements what he thinks electronic music should sound like. So those components are good sounding to him. He would
Probably say these are good components because it does What
He wants them to do.
Person who listens to classical music will consider certain components are good because those components compliments classical music . those two people would disagree with each other to what sounds good because each one is looking for something different. So when someone says this sounds good . you should asked, what kind of music do you listen to and take it from there.
And then there is synergy. Yes the synergy of components working together. Components have to compliment each other to acheive the sound that person wants.
For me, I try to listen to live unamplified music and use that as
My reference to train my ears . Then we start there. Good video
Steve. What is a good sounding
Component? A component that
Complements your components
You have ,to achieve the sound
Your looking for.
Steve, I agree with you, but also because something is very, very expensive it does not mean that it's that much better than a reasonable price item. Also the room can make a big difference, like another reader commented.
He is talking about SYNERGY! I agree.
12 bit blue is amazingly fun ablum to listen to. Thx Steve for the recommendation!
Steve thats the problem, where i am going to find such experts, especially in towns where there are not good brick an mortar stores. I have a shop in my city that is so small and limited in equipment that I dont really trust they will give me good advice. I wish i had a store in my city with decent inventory, willing to set up equipment at my house or one that would let me loan equipment to test at home. I always end up ordering stuff online that have a return policy and then at least i can test a few brands at the same time. If i were to buy an uber expensive system I would make sure that a professional set up my system.
I remember the "golden age". Just a bunch of stores around with dozens of brands. They would even let you bring in your own equipment to hook up and compare. We used to just go all the time and listen to different equipment.
I found it was always better to listen to speakers more than once, sometimes the first impression was wrong.
Opinion which my son gave me is point of middle age generation. He said that speaker enough if sound good but not overestimated,. But body in details must look very expensive. That is why I close my eyes when listen and recall to my imagination biggest expensive speaker sets.
Often high-end audio is not the result of high-end audio engineering but rather use of cosmetically high-end expensive looking materials and components that do absolutely nothing for the quality of the sound. For example, don’t assume using expensive audiophile capacitors can help fix a poor circuit design. Rather, cheap components used carefully in a good circuit design can often sound much better. In fact, from an engineering perspective, you can achieve the ultimate of audio processing with very few carefully chosen parts for DAC, power amp and speakers. A US$ 5 SD card is as excellent a transport for digital music as a US$ 10,000 CD player. Well, actually the cheap SD card is likely better as it doesn’t have the data errors of your scratched CDs that even the most expensive player can’t recover.