How to upgrade without buying ever more expensive stuff
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- Опубликовано: 27 июл 2024
- The Audiophiliac's alternative upgrade strategies for smart audiophiles.
One tip involves subwoofers for two channel audiophiles, with subs from REL and JL Audio
REL rel.net
JL Audio www.jlaudio.com/collections/h...
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I have an old set of KLH speakers and Sub, with a 90s maybe early 2000s Technics receiver, my set up is cheap and old, however, I "upgraded" my sound by simply taking the time to measure out my room, and place the speakers in the proper position in relation to where I am sitting, properly set up the sub crossover frequency and sub volume, made sure that the speakers weren't too close to the wall etc. and it's like I bought a whole new system! I did this "proper" set up maybe two years ago when I first started watching audiophile channels like this one and it has been a whole new experience. Most people buy really expensive gear and place their stuff haphazardly and don't get the full experience of the what they actually own! Now with that said, would I want to upgrade to a McIntosh set up? HELL YEAH! Lol, hopefully someday.
@Matthew G.Garcia I totally agree with you.I did the same to. my speaker setup.I`m now hearing albums like it was the first time I played them.
Can you provide a link or a good guide that helps explain some of the principles you applied in setting up your system?
I would also be interested in knowing how one would go about setting the speakers up for optimum performance based on the rooms dimensions.
I just did this as well.
This is some of the best advise you are EVER going to get to "improve" your system.
In short: Mix it up a little!
When I was a teenager I had a simple 70's receiver that had 30 watts per channel, and it sounded wonderful. The mechanical switches were super satisfying to use, like the dial of an old telephone. So much more satisfying than modern buttons.
Always impressed by Steve’s ability to find insightful new things to say about hi-fi.
I had a used Conrad Johnson PV10A in my system for over 15 years and was happy with it. In my early 70's i decided if ever I was going to make a substantial difference now was the time. I looked around and fond a used Rogue Audio RP5 and am very happy with that. They are both good but they are also different from each other.
I loved my original Marantz 2220 from 1972. I upgraded stereo systems over the years but always kept the Marantz.
Great topic Steve. Vintage sound colouration = Fun. Lots of value priced 60's, 70's and 80's gear out there that when setup correctly can really get your foot tapping.
I love the sensuous connection to sound you get with knobs. It's almost like you can just reach out and shape it with your fingertips.
Every episode is a pearl. This helps enormously, the perspective of someone who has been there and done that.
Good advice! I love the Yamaha CR2040 ($175 ) and the KEF 104/2 ($400 ) I picked up off CL. A very familiar sound I really enjoy.
Thanks for this great video. It's a great way to learn more about audio, to maximize happiness, and experience. Great advice.
Bring back the opening soundtrack audio.
It nails the essence of the channel. It possesses this retro hip sound, that dovetails perfectly with the quick visuals.
It ain't broke ...
I just did an upgrade that was the same but different: I replaced my Peachtree Nova 150 with a Peachtree Nova 500. The 150 was more than enough to drive my Elac B6.2's but I wanted more, clean, power for now and for the future. I stayed with Peachtree because the connectivity features their line offers works perfectly for me and with everything in one box it saves me real estate. My current listening space is a very difficult room so the 500 also paves the way for when we build a new home with a dedicated music room within the next five years.
Once again, you have thought out of the box... and I can enjoy all of my gear again...I think that this hobby is all out the "right choices"... and the variations are endless..and who wants to make an expensive choice with no way of knowing the what the result will be!!!...all the best...
My best low cost upgrade was diy room treatment. THAT changed everything for a couple of hundred bucks. I have a small listening room, so the effect was particularly impressive.
Love your work - again! I love old b&o kit, not just for the sound, which is way better than most audiophiles generally acknowledge.
Don’t forget DIY upgrades too. Cables are a fantastic place to start - they are easy peasy compared to, say, tonearms...
This is one of the best advice pieces I've ever seen!
Thanks, Steve, for the sound advice, as always.
Always enjoy listening to other audiofiles experiences, it enriches the options and enjoyment of the listening experience
Very interesting advice. Fascinating. Steve's really got the left hand working in this one.
Really fresh insight, Steve. Never occurred to me. You always deliver. Thank you!
The sub advice is so true! I never had one till I recently added a Tekton 2-10 sub... And WOW night and day.
Good advice. I actually brought my vintage stuff out of the closet a few weeks ago. Lol. Surprised how much I’m enjoying it. Some records pop with the warmer tone.
And right on about the adding a sub. IMHO a system isn’t complete without one. Or even 2 or more are better for med-large rooms. I always tell guys with towers that say they are enough “a classic muscle car is enough but they are always better with a supercharger “ lol. like Steve said you don’t know what your missing.
Hi Steve, thank you very much, I like so much your videos, you are so focused on the feeling, on the experience, on how the music can come inside of us....It's really a pleasure ti hear you, even if I don't understand everything (for my language limits, I'm from Italy...). Thank you
I have s always enjoyed Steve's site.Have been familiar with him through the years..you can trust his wisdom.I am Audiophile all my 60 years.My present system is wonderful.Cerwin Vega speakers,Bang and Olfsen,Yahama disc player..most satisfying.Thank You Steve you are greatly app.And your shirts too.
Great talk! I have a vintage realistic sta-120 with a modern Rolls amp. With sansui 4 way vintage speakers mixed with some Modern Dayton audio speakers. I love mixing things up.
Thanks Steve, your love of all things audio is infectious. I'm pretty green but learning lots.
Good advice as always. I in fact did go the headphone route (HIFIMAN HE400i) and it did scratch that itch...but then needed to choose a headphone stand. My music sounds differently pleasurable, and my wife is happier when she is working.
BTW, I took to heart your recommendation about subwoofers. I just bought an inexpensive Jamo S 808 from Adorama for $94. If it doesn’t float my boat, I guess it could become part of the home theater setup. Bonus: it has a high SAF rating.
Great advice Steve. I’ve mixing it up lately. Been playing mostly LPs for the last few years. Recently been getting into digital again and subscribed to Roon. Thinking about upgrading to a higher end DAC. May subscribe to Qobuz too. About 10 years ago I put together a reasonable priced vintage 70s system as a secondary system, which was a lot fun. After a few years, my son bought it all from me and he is enjoying it now.
Agree completely. I have finally found a good path. I don't fool with the electronics very much (PS Audio Stellar stack), but I have four pair of speakers wired to it. Vastly different types -
Zu Omen DW, Ohm Walsh 4.5, Dahquist DQ10, Quad 57. Lots of variety at the flip of a switch.
As a kid, I had an ERC receiver/turntable from FedCo... upgraded in my teens to a Proton integrated, Pioneer turntable, and Acoustic Research M4 speakers... then I got some Sony digital headphones that blew my mind... but the progression of new gear stopped after I added some Audioengine A2s with Musical Fidelity DAC to my Mac! I have been stuck listening at my desk for years now...One of these days, I'm going to build a nice system!
Good advice. I recently added a graphic equalizer (remember them) into my system and, for me, its been a game changer.
Very nice!
EQ is so under-utilized. Every system can benefit from EQ.
Next begin dabbling into measuring... REW free software is world class, all you do is buy a sub $100 mic.
Or, OmniMic, from Parts Express, all in one for $300, zero learning curve, so easy you're up and measuring in less than 5min.
www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-omnimic-v2-acoustic-measurement-system--390-792
I used both extensively. There's a huge community of users glad to help with anything.
Steve,great video!!.I have been preaching the same thing for well over 20 yrs.i have two residences due to my audio obsession.ihave a mobile home that I use for audio listening/upgrades/repairs,etc....most of my friends think I'm insane! I have a huge variety of gear. Klipsch Belle's 2 pairs of Hereseys,Jbll C53's,Ev Marquis.Celestions,Kefs,B&W's,Focal's,LS3 5a's, a pair of very rare Bertagni planar speakers just arrived today.i love finding great system matches with equipment I already own.i get amazed at least once a week with new sonic discoverys.(I used to be an analytical Audiophile that was always critically listening ,instead of just enjoying the music.this hobby doesn't have to cost a lot to create great sound.it's all in system matching.but then again,most people don't have a second residence dedicated to audio.i've been building speakers for years and now I am doing high end headphone mods.thats where the fun is for me.have fun while mixing and matching.dont make the mistake that I did,by looking and drooling over and buying ultra high end stuff that really doesn't warrent the price.
Wow Steve what a nostalgic episode i'm just off to get out my dad's old Leak 3O Plus stereo Amplifier !!
Added a 'sub' to my Maggie 1.6QR's this last year...phenomenal upgrade!
That's what I did. My second pair of audiophile level speakers were Magnepan MMGs. Instead of trying to get a nicer cone.
Some great advice. I’ve done the dreaded sideways move way too many times to admit.
Awesome content!! This is my now Favourite Audiophile channel!
Tekton Perfect Set in the background. Looking forward to the review.
I absolutely love the tactile feel of the switches and buttons on my Kenwood KR-7600 receiver! But it’s time for me to start venturing into newer gear.
Great advice, and one of the subtlest sponsored marketing video. Well done Steve.
I can't agree more with what you pointed out. I'm a vinyl collector but during the lockdown my son involved me in his Raspberry Pi project. I ended buying one for myself and I started streaming music. I bought a decent DAC, added to the Raspberry and I'm enjoying different music now. I really love my vinyl but streaming is giving me the opportunity of explore music I've never had, listen to music before buying a record that I don't actually like. Difference is always something that makes you richer
Moving from monitor audio silver 1 to kef concerto was the best move I made. Very little cost, and so much more of what I want
I'm running a Sansui 9090db with four SF2 Sansui omni speakers +2 100 watt subs and I love it !! Since I paid $100 for the receiver and $300 for the speakers, it's a huge win.
I just started trying to get the most out of what i already have not only with headphones but with all my gadgets. its funny that this video was recommended right on the day im trying to actually improve with what i have already. been adjusting settings and positions of everything and i been realising that i got all the gear but im not using it to the most of its ability.
He is spot on about owning the '60s '70s and '80s vintage pieces. There's nothing like the look and feel of those vintage stereos and amplifiers. I love my marantz and my pioneer and my Onkyo. I have eight tracks ,cassettes and albums. Not much into digital but after listening to Steve maybe I'll give it a try.
Always appreciate a plug for good headphones.
I've been starting my audiophile journey with good headphones. I currently have the AKG K712 Pros, they're awesome, and don't break the bank!
Go horizontal instead of vertical - excellent advice. I have several vintage gears they sound better to my taste if in correct condition.
I also go reel to reel. Very engaging hobby
By way,I am pretty impressed with the Bertagni bi polar planers I got today.very detailed and seamless!great build quality.too bad they never took off.i saw them on e bay, thought they were interesting,and took a chance.i'm glad I did!
Hmm. I've got an H. H. Scott 340B tube receiver in the basement - it needs to be biased so I'm not running it, but what a sound! Maybe a trip to the tube doctor will be my next stereo 'purchase'. Thanks for the tip on headphones Steve. I monitor my own recordings with a pair of Sony MDR-7506's but haven't used them just to listen to music in quite a while. That's the only way I can make my room disappear any time soon. Good advice all around!
My experience is from the early 2000s, so things may have changed. I bought a REL Stadium 3 sub and it was glorious. The problem was when it failed, out of warranty by a couple of years. I took it to a local repair shop, we still had one back in the day. They contacted Sumiko (the distributor) and could get no info from them except that the one, and only, authorized repair center was in the San Fransisco area. So they removed the blade and shipped it off. The "authorized" repair center bypassed the protection circuit and sent it back. The local repair guy called the guys in San Fransisco and asked it was supposed to make a boom when turned on, they lied to him and said it was normal. Long story short, I got to pay for a bad repair and then buy a new blade to get it fixed right. REL is a great sub, until you need a repair.
homestly ive never heard a sub that coukd successfully integrate with any pair of speakers.
Found some mint Bose 901 series 2 and a Kenwood KR7600 ... had noisy diff pair in one output board. The Bose needed one dust cap glued and the grills were slightly stained ... I also re-capped the active EQ. These speakers hold a lot of old memories for me ... not the best, but at times a relaxing sound ...
Steve is absolutely right about the smooth and luxurious tactile feel of a quality 70's or 80's receiver. Nothing compares to it today. Oddly, some of the nicest feeling recovers I recall were the Realistic line from Radio Shack in the early 80's.
I miss radio shack!!!
Go go Tandy
My latest upgrade to my 2nd stereo system was adding a Douk ST-01 Pro hybrid tube amp to existing Elac DBR62 stand mount speakers. About 100% improvement in sound. Deeper bass even at low volume, room now shakes, clearer mids. Old amp was Rockville Blutube amp, 30 wpc. Not enough power. New Douk amp rated 200 watts, about 60 wpc to 6 ohm Elac's. Big difference in sound, same speaker. But it sounds like new, different speakers. So upgrades can really make a big difference. Shop and compare first. Enjoy music!
Went from esl's to headphones... Great advice, change things up. Mostly have fun!
Gold baby it was Golden advice.
Can't wait for the Tekton review you are working on as well... I love you blue.
I just picked up a Pioneer SX 828 receiver like I had in the 70's. Am using Polk T15 ($100/PR) and a Polk 8" Sub. Source is Sony A55 Walkman plugged in Aux. Sounds pretty darn good.
Good advice, Steve!
I see you're covering the tv screen for critical listening, that one gets me that sideways look from my wife:-)
Adding REL powered subs to my systems made huge improvements to the palpability of the music! Far more than the difference between Dacs or tubes.(-:2.2 is best:-)
Also try a Chi-Fi tube amp if you're curious about tubes. I run a Silk Audio EL34 amp in my second system in rotation with a Mu-Fi integrated.
Then there's long vs short wall room layouts....room treatments....DSP....
Having your music presented differently is fun and helps you hear a new perspective;-)
@@Fat Rat
I'll try, but Skankin's more my style 😃
Thanks!
yes i agree Steve good subwoofer is a must .😊😊
And-my Onkyo receiver can be used with Bluetooth from my iPhone and Ipad.Works REALLY well!Sound is better than I thought it would be.
Did this in 2020. Got a Line Magnetic 210ia and a set of Unity Audio whitewater, Opera Consonance wax engine turntable. Yes very different sound than my old system,. More open soundstage instruments. Big change the old system brought the instruments into the room, now it brings me to the concert. I did have to tweak the room with diffusers and absorbers.
I found my true love in time and phase correct Vandersteen speakers and Magnepan 3.6r- my search ended there in nirvana. I am now in search of a closed headphone - just ordered by LSA headphones and a Magni by Kerrington in Russia. I love my HD600 and my Etymotic Er4s/p - I am done searching. I found the perfect dac - The Topping D90 and wound up changing all the wire which made a huge difference to the D90- TG Audio HSR-I for power, Stealth Audio (rca), and Kimber USB. Power Signals (NY) for amp power wire. I have the Bottlehead Crack with s/b and PASS solid state Class A- I am done searching- happy with all my choices. Do I keep up with reviews- yes. But I am in blissful heaven. Thanks to yours and other great reviews- I am forever grateful for all your work!
Ironically, i just stumbled on a discussion tonight about the Topping D90. Never heard of them before. Sounds intriguing for the price.
Thank you! I went from a Crown XLS to a Aragon 4004 mkII and....OMG 😎..sweet!!
1990s being referred to as vintage, wow I feel old!
UPgrading is valid, and exciting! But going "sideways" along the same performance level is valid, too.
I saw a Moscode amp in your slides! That started my audiophile journey! Its funny, I started with that then ended with Pass Labs :) i see those Tektons behind you in my future.
I'm a new subscriber Steve. We are of similar vintage. I'm very into your style of audio. Thank you!
I just picked up a vintage Kenwood KM-209 power amplifier as a way to get some extra sauce out of my debut 6.2 and holy smokes what a difference. Using the Schiit Asgard 2 as a preamp, the speakers have MUCH better imaging and dynamics over my Onkyo A/V receiver when it was fed via digital coax. Best $60 I have spent to improve the sound of my system.
You got it right. The best was the 70’s era of receivers. Gorgeous thick aluminum fascia plates with solid feeling aluminum switches and knobs that you actually touched. Not like today with remotes and phone controls. You never touch your gear nowadays.
Great advice Steve! Always appreciate your insight even though I have no cash for upgrades xD
I just upgraded my speakers. From entry level Klipsch Synergy Towers to Rf82 Mk2 Klipsch.
Brand new and not a current model so I got them at almost Half Off.
Nothing wrong with that method of upgrading and I dig the Klipsch sound.
I had Polk S60 Towers & Sold Them--good bass BUT
I could not get them to sound right no matter what I did.
I like the sonic sound of Klipsch much better.
Yes it's amazing what people can hear with their eyes.
My bedroom system consists of Harmon-Kardon 430 receiver from late 70’s and pair FMI 80’s book shelf speakers. The source is Tascam CD player.
Nice post! The 430 is known in some parts, but it is a sleeper receiver that sounds amazing. Even FM sounds great. The JBL L112 is an excellent pairing.
Great advice! I am a TT person and got a £1k streamer and was surprised how good it was !
I totally agree.
- I got Magnepans and BNS bookshelve speakers.
- I got a turntable and cd's.
- I got Stax earspeakers for detail and Denon headphones for fast punchy bass. And other headphones.
- Got class AB headphones amplifier, Class A amp, tube amplifier
I want lots of flavours with the limited budget I got.
Nice video. Thank you 🙏🏼
Just love listening to you Steve.
Great advice, Steve!
Three cheers for Mr Guttenberg. Hip, hip...!
One of you best videos to date
My system is certainly 'budget' for what I paid for it, but I'm happy the sound I have been able to gradually achieve. Its got components from every decade. Dynaco A25 speakers from the early 70s ($50 in 1981), an early 80s Thorens 147D turntable with a B&O cartridge (traded for a midi drum pad, Thorens needed repair), a 1990s Sony CDP-C365 CD player ($25 off Craigslist), a pair of early 2000s Polk RTi28's as back channel speakers ($50), a Yamaha YST SW216 sub from about 10 years ($50), and a Pioneer Elite VSX LX301 AVR receiver from 2 years ago (Best Buy open box return for $189), and a new TC-770 phono pre-amp for $87. Oh, and speaker stands for both sets I made in my workshop for about $25 in materials.
If you want detail look at some used Stax headphones As for volume control I now plug my Mac laptop into my DAC and can control the volume with the Mac remote or an iPhone app remote
In 2020 nj, we consider it a miracle to find someone who can repair, recap for a reasonable price with good, skilled repairs. Such skilled labor is way hard to find, not nearly as easily as steve suggests
I went backwards to upgrade because the towers I had were way too powerful for the size of room I'm using them in. My bedroom setup is killer with a vintage 80's Pioneer and hooked up a pair of NHT SuperOnes 2.0 and I love it. The SuperOnes are acoustically sealed and although their bass isn't fantastic the bass they have is superbly tight.
You can do sideways upgrades on a moderate budget. Try Klipsch Atmos speakers on top of your old speakers. Creates a large change for soundstage..
I am in the process of doing this. Moving from GE Triton 3+ to Zu Omen Mk2.... Zu speaks to me :)
colored as in big band jazz on an Ev kit Aristrocrat speaker in mono, old gerrard turntable MM heathkit W3M power amp all in mono, was my stepdad's and he gave it to me, minus the speaker, i remember it sounding great and the experience was once in a lifetime
All very good advise. Biggest bang for your buck is still acoustic treatment - and not the cheap foam shit. Get a few real panels, worth it.
amen
Very good video! Next time I’ll do something very different than my Quad’s and Tannoy’s
I'm poor. But I was able to slowly build a vintage stereo system that sounds great. A Realistic SA-2000 amplifier, Realistic TM-1000 tuner, Denon DP-23F turntable (with Ortofon Red stylus), Marantz Imperial 7 speakers. I've probably spent $350 with $100 of that towards the new stylus. I still would like to add an equalizer and tape deck.
the used market is great, especially the 10+ year old suff. Gear that was in the thousands selling for under $100.
Those Realistic pieces from the 70s were really pretty decent actually and that turntable is no slouch either. Want to add an EQ and tape deck? That is easier said then done these days. If you can work on tape decks then with luck you can find a vintage one, but make sure it is a Teac or Pioneer or Nakamichi. Baring that, you could go pro deck with something from Tascam. As for EQs, I loved those things (learn how to properly use them), but the problem is that most added noise to the system. Today, I think your only choice may be either a pro EQ or the Schiit Loki
@@ericelliott227 Thanks for the advice.
Why EQ?
Only for "the looks"?
@@jareknowak8712 Seems to do wonders on my brother's vintage stereo. My system is a little heavy on the bass hoping it will help.
Very wise advice, thanks.
Hey Steve, when you were talking about subwoofers, I noticed how your Paris Subway shirt reflected the PCB art on the wall behind you.
Pretty cool!
They also serve similar functions, in getting masses of people (or electrons) from one location to another.
Never would have thought of that, otherwise. : D
Electrons from one location to another?
@@carlosoliveira-rc2xt
For instance: From one end of a wire, to the other end. Another example might be, from the input jacks on your amp, through the circuit board, to the output jacks.
Fantastic Advice! I also believe there is huge value in vintage equipment. You will never be able to experience the full force of the music attack from a speaker without a high current amplifier. Mark Levenson, Krell, McIntosh to name a few. The used market is full of amazing deals on 10 to 30 year old audio equipment. Amplifiers are only a small sample of great deals out there. Don't be scared! Do some research and jump in! Great advice from Steve!!!
One thing about buying a vintage amp is you will surely need to replaced or upgrade most of the original Caps and resistors. And after you do that it doesn't sound vintage anymore.. That is base on my friends experienced with his Dynaco Mark III monoblock.
Tektons, I heard (thanks for that still) a complete home theater setup build with tekton. It was a seller I got a mmgi magnepan from.
That dude had all top models of tekton in his cinema room. It’s insane the amount of displacement they produce
Still have, still great late 80s RSL Elan floorstanding speakers with passive RSL subwoofer. Yamaha M65, C65 separates. “May” replace Elan with Klipsch Forte III. But expensive at $4000.
I got quad esl 57’s to compliment my klipschorns. Grado/beyeredynamic/planar magnetics to compliment my sennheisers. But either way, head phone or main system, it’s always tubes. Gotta love tubes
I like this kind of talk! I do not know why I really do not like your interviews with all those creators such as Nelson Pass, the Elac guy or the Roy from Klipsch.
I have a vintage dealer in my neighborhood! Unfortunately when the very good stuff comes in it will sell THAT DAY! My plan now is to get stuff of eBay and then send it to him for repair and restoration.
You know, I think you're a great dude.
Steve steve steve. You should have mentioned capacitors. But I'm with you!