Even if I do a water line job and there's left over pipe I ask the client if they want the remainder before I take it. Most say no but it's technically your pipe you paid for it
Hard water doesn't eat away copper, soft water does. Galvanic action, can and will cause pin hole leaks anywhere in the system. Not reaming your pipe with cause pin hole leaks at the fittings, as well as not washing the flux off your pipe after sweating.
@@mercwithacat9938i think you need to get familiar with the basics. Low ph IS soft water. From the service side of things....ever see that blue/green stain on porcelain in the tub, faucet or sink? That's due to soft water. My understanding of hardware erosion is the dissolved mineral content of high ph will thin the inside walls of copper through mechanical means unlike soft water erosion will through chemical reaction. But I agree, not treating hard water can lead to many issues.
Well water is typically hard water, and it definitely eats away at copper pipes. That's why people need a water softener. I've dealt with many buildings with pin holes and thinning pipes from hard water. It also destroys any brass on the lines as well
- PEX withstands some freezing/expansion. Approximately 4-6x cheaper than copper (parts/labour). Easier and quicker to install/repair. Home run setups are possible. Better hard water tolerance. No risk of galvanic corrosion. - Copper can be used outdoors/in sunlight. High temperature tolerant (e.g. heating). PEX is ideal due to cost. For the price and lifespan of copper (~50 years), I could plumb a house in PEX (assumed 25 year lifespan) twice for less than half the cost of copper.
If you ask most plumbers what they would pipe in their home if money was not an issue it would be copper. Saying that looking at the cost of fittings and piping of rolled K copper and L copper as long as one does the piping himself it is not that expensive and the home you do it in if you treat the water you will never have to do another repipe. With pex rats/mice can chew through the material, the pex does not hold up to chlorine and chloramine (pex A holds up the most but is still susceptible), UV light expsoure can shorten the lifespan. I seen pex a and b fail many times from rats/mice chewing on it, and chlorine/chloramine exposure. Uponor was failing just from the dye on the pipe and the 90 bends they make for the pipe. Copper on average ive seen 35-50 years in my area and we have hard water. Even the city lines are failing and those are pex. The US is going backwards due to the wealthy and banks making economic decisions that benefit themselves at the expense of everyone else and then drive a market of "innovation" to sell cheap materials to offset the inflation that has occured due to these decisions. Look at a can of pipe dope and a roll of teflon tape (ingredients) then tell me thats innovation verse using something like twine and grease. Your ingesting all of this and your health is worth more than the cost difference of some fittings and pipe.
I see some builders that have long ago switched to pex because the savings I'm sure, but the builders we work for pay well and we still run the main service stack and the water heaters in copper and still solder , I enjoy it
Plumber here. Hard water does not eat copper pipes. Soft water doesn't either. Copper pinholes for several reasons, one of which is erosion over time. Like the grand canyon, 50yr old pipe is going to wear down. Copper is useful because it developes that dark patina of oxides that keep it from rusting. But there are siutations that stop the patina from forming. Galvanic corrosion is one, and ammonia is another. Ammonia basically dissolves copper, so windex and the like are a no go. Connections between other metals can sometimes cause the copper to either steal electrons or have them stolen from it. This is why it's important to electrically isolate copper pipe. We use electrical tape or PVC tape commonly. In general, you don't want two metals touching unless you know they wont make a sacrificial diode (one metal stealing electrons from the other).
@@earthgraduate726 PEX A (A pex, the extruded kind). Can't beat the cost. I like copper but the $$$ isn't for everyone. Easy/cheap to repair, cheap to install, lasts nearly forever.
Even if it's not better than copper, it's far better than cpvc at minimum. Slightly more expensive quick connectors but infinitely easier to maintain/upgrade couplings/piping.
my dad called me about a leak underneath his kitchen in the crawl space, I got down there and it was some janky setup where there was one single T with 3 different connections.... galvanized, cpvc, and copper from the meter to that T, no main shutoff or anything in the house, the cpvc on the hot side was spewing all over the place, luckily just ran to local hardware store for another cpvc male adapter and actually installed a shutoff as well
@@enb3810 Right maybe in ideal circumstances. Copper might be pretty tough, but it can't take a freeze like pex. I find pex to be objectively overall a better value.
Over 25 years ago we built a cabin in the woods. An nan pex And we tiled the entire floor system. And in the winter that tile floor was extremely cold. So we came back with half inch pex, ran over 350 ft of pex and fastened it to the floor system between the floor joists. And hooked it up to a circulating pump to the Hot water heater. And hooked it up to a thermostat in the house !!!! It took about 24 hours for the floor to start warming up. After 48 hours the floor temperature maintained like 77°.
@@mar1videowell when we originally built the cabin it was only supposed to be for summer. Nothing later than November 1st. Put a lady want to rent it. She absolutely loved it other than the tile floors were cold in December.
I could see minerals buildup causing a blockage. I just bought o-rings for an outdoor faucet. The seals were fine, but a large deposit was stuck inside. It was the size of a pea.
I've got cast iron, copper, pex, and PVC throughout my house. The main line in is cast, it goes to copper to the outside water spigots. It also splits off to PVC that runs to fixtures in the house. From the PVC it goes to pex through the walls.
@@akan626 I'm in the northeast, we have alot of hydronic heating systems, often times that will be ran in type M or pex. It doesn't have fresh water constantly running thru it.
@@RayZde that’s exactly what I was thinking, 50 years is more than enough service life, especially with the microplastics that are released from PEX. There’s nothing on modern builds that is built to last 50 years these days so they’re complaining about a nonissue
I replumbded every exosed pipe in my basement with pex and ran the routing more nearly than it had been and its been...shit, prob 12 years now at least. Never had a leak once so far! Not to mention how easy pex is to work with. Also using shark bite fittings on non hidden/non sealed off piping is just top tier imo, especially for the average home owner!
We’ve fixed several leak in uponor pex red water lines. They were installed by the original builders plumbers. We only use the clear. Not sure what’s up
😂 new work guy claiming they never seen a leak. No shit! Really? You mean looking at new work everyday gives you experience to make decisions from day 3 and on ? The guy that’s seen red pipe leak. That’s new construction morons leaving red in the pickup for too long. Blue gets used too quickly to sit in a truck. 30 days of u v is a no no. Realizing incandescent lighting gives off u v rays is a huge must. But most of the new construction won’t know what happens to a structure after the 1 year warranty is up. 😂 imagine bragging about your career then after 20 years experience. You still can’t give more than a year warranty. And fight tooth and nail to honor it twice. Once is too much. Yall ain’t coming back twice.
We have 60+ year old copper pipes in a 5 stories building leaking since 5 years and the homeowner just brings stupid plumbers that don't fix the problem, I haven't had cold water for 3 years, everything has to pass through the boiler first so I can only shower extremely hot. It is a pain and no similar cases from court where you could lessen rent, because we still have water.
If you're on a well system, it's definitely worth it to switch to pex. Like you said, pinholes every year. Additionally, it's suggested not to use brass fittings as they will corrode over time. Found this out when a couple of mine started seeping after 5 years. New install used nylon fittings is what I believe they installed. Also switched to county water.
@@mar1video everything is copper in my house. I have no problem with pex...just saying, I've had copper for a long time, with very hard well water & had no problems with my pipes.
@@mtraven23 - thank you for your input . I still have galvanized pipes and I’m on a well water as well, but I would like to switch to copper. Fun fact, recently I’ve seen some rental apartments being remodeled, and they’ve used all copper, all around, including vent lines . 3 or 4 inch copper vents ? Crazy ! I asked the worker why, and he responded that’s what they (company that owns the property) asked for. So it tells you, they won’t touch this property for next 20 years.
I’m wondering what health effects there will be when using plastic pipe for water esp when there’s so much on the news about microplastics contaminating our water
@@MisterAssasine So wouldn't the same go for plastic? But also, if you are having minerals form a complete coating to the inside of pipes, you desperately need water treatment.
@@MisterAssasineWhat kind of logic is that? The mineral can accumulate on both plastic and copper. Also you need to look up CPVC that is actually used in the entire world, from home to streets. That pipe has been proven to be completely safe and even better than PVC, copper whatever. Can handle heat and pressure.
@@TheDeathLoveCome over to my neighbors house, he had his lines changed from copper to pex 3 years ago and the water smells like gasoline when it comes out and is undrinkable. He can't afford to have it changed back now. They always say these things are safe until they're not, and we know copper is safe. Stop spreading lies you're probably a plumber.
Copper, silver, gold, and also any alloys that use any of those metals, are naturally antimicrobial. And very effective ones too. They kill microscopic organisms when they touch the elements/alloys. And there are few exceptions too, they will kill most forms of bacteria, fungi, and viruses. This is why I prefer brass doorknobs and copper pipes. Out of the three metal elements of copper, silver, and gold, copper and its alloys are the most antimicrobial. Also, I just don’t need any more methods of getting microplastics into my body. It is also why I have been a silent supporter of bringing brass doorknobs to schools and hospitals to help with germs.
Packs will never last if you use brass fittings you should use plastic fittings especially on well water and if you know you have hard water because the Brush will eat away quicker than the copper.
Our plumber repiped a leak in foundation with pex, because of price, time and flexibility, and gave us the removed pipe as a general courtesy, all 4 pieces of it... but also used direct and transfer copper fittings with pex inbetween.
Our house flooded while it was abandoned and had a bunch of split pipes. Pex handles freezing far better IF it ever happens again. Unless your walls are already down though I don't see the need to switch
@@mar1video I had a lot of that to deal with as well. I think a big part of this convo is also how good was the plumber who did your copper. solder has room for error if you hand it to an idiot like me.
@@Vincerama well my sewer drain is clay tiles so you can't win them all yet my homes down spouts go directly into (?????) I'm not allowed to say but it's grandfathered in and I'm definitely not fixing something that works perfectly!
my place was built in 52. Replaced all the lines with pex. Replaced all the faucets but the shower. Recent work in the neighborhood, water was broke 20 or so times in a year. Was amusing to dunk on maintenance, who tried to use old pipes as an excuse. Followed with faucets. 😂😂😂 Next day they dug up the same location they where at and found 2 breaks. Finks. 😂
@@Vincerama yeah probably like that, our galvanized stuff from around that era didnt get pinhole leaks like the newer stuff but time fills every water pipe with iron and causes problems in the surrounding pipes. Our Plumber that changed a lot of the pipes with me said those really old pipes are better at corrosion resistance because they have less recycled metal in them.(Probably some accidental high alloy steel parts making it into the mix nowadays)
My old house built in the 60s was all copper before the renovation. After the renovation it was still mostly copper with just replaced brass fittings. None of the old plumbing was broken it was just time for an update to the old bathrooms and kitchen. Kept the original bathtub drains and it was all original thick copper pipe. No point ripping up old plaster walls and pipes if nothing is broken and its lasted 50 years already.
If they have hard water then it’s better to use plastics fittings. Personally I almost always use the plastic fittings because I’ve not seen them have any issues
installed a water softener for my neighbor used pex, it made it a lot easier to work with the minimal space in the crawl space and get around the random boards in the way
Culligan Man here. Copper piping is cool and is also a natural disinfectant. It's been a great water delivery pipe. HOWEVER, due to increasing water problems (mot solely water hardness) found in the city tap supply and even well water, harder minerals are coating onto the water delivery pipes. ON TOP OF THAT, reverse osmosis (RO) water is an aggressive water that will eat through copper pipes, but not PEX and PVC. With more homes needing Whole House RO, the best decision one can do is put PEX into their home if they can. If you live in a state where it snows, its VERY IMPORTANT to insulate that PEX properly.
My dad is a retired plumber (about 8 years) and when "pex" first came out he hated it, but in it's iteration in the last 5 years of his career he totally came around.
I have seen it both ways, copper that pinholed within a few years, and copper that is 60-70 years old that is still holding up just fine. I use Viega PEX with bronze (not brass) fittings for higher end installs, poly (plastic) fittings for standard.
I learned this from old rich people. Rich people in the 1800-early1900 would have silver and gold dust, which would be used to coat fresh pills and medicine. Most metals are anti bacterial and are used in medicine
It is, but if copper pipes put enough copper into the water to kill bacteria it'd kill you too. The actual effect of copper piping is that it's way more smooth then PEX piping making it harder for biofilm to accumulate. adding to that the system used has fittings with smaller inner diameters then the tubing, which is a bacteria's heaven since it will have small no-flow zones at the start and end of every fitting. Sorry for the stonecoal English...
@@s3rye306 until recently silver was used (not often though) to kill off legionella bacteria in drinking water systems. They lowered the maximum amount to non-detectable (on the standard test) levels thus killing this method. They did so 'cause silver in the body tends to be bad for you...
My parents bought an 1850s house in Saratoga Springs, New York and had all the piping torn out it was hundreds and hundreds of pounds of copper pipe. Was only 16 at the time, but I saw it getting lugged out to their truck, when I asked them if it was part of the deal that they got to keep the scrap. They said no, so I took that to the scrapyard was the most money I’ve ever held at the time 😂
In my area well water is the worst for copper lines. But when we replace all the lines with PEX we use the plastic PEX fittings because those brass fittings will thin out if the water is bad as well. All those brass fittings will have to be replaced at some point. Some fittings you have to use brass. But we recommend removing as much brass and copper as possible unless they get a whole house filtration and softener system after replacing the pipes
If the local tap water allows it, always go with copper piping with silver sodder. Pex leeches microplastics and chemicals over time. Silver/copper leeches slowly as well, but neither are bad for you in low concentrations. Nobody knows the long term side effects of excessive microplastics in the blood and organs. There has however been a reduction in average life expectancy in the last 40 years for healthy people (non-obese, non-smoker) due to health issues.
My home was plumbed in '35 with heavy guage 3/4" copper. I suffered from Plenty of pressure but no volume, copper lines were corroded to less than a 1/4" of flow.😮😮. It was a pay day, the copper by wt paid for entire pex replacement plus beer money
Nothing like microplastics in your water supply. And yes, running water through any plastic pipe or container does create microplastics. Bottled water has an absurd amount of microplastics in them. Confirm these facts for yourself if you don’t believe me
I did because my pipes were galvanized steel and I have hard well water. My plumber said it was the best way to get it done. I am very pleased with the results.
That's the beauty of PEX though, even if it only lasts 25 years, replacing a section of it is super easy and takes much less time or effort than copper or CPVC.
In my home I used all copper except for one outside line which uses PEX A. I choose that due to its higher elasticity in case of freezing temperatures.
I’ve heard of rats chewing copper lines to get it water after eating rat bait but I’ve never personally seen it. I have seen them chew through Pex lines many many times. And I’m not even a plumber. I’m a heating and air guy.. that stuff has made me some easy money..
The trailer we lived in growing up was only about 20-25 years old, the copper pipe was riddled with pin holes and had to be replaced. My step-dad replaced it with PVC. There was no PEX back then.
I don’t know what city you’re talking about but in the North East it’s always metal pipe. Yes I am very worried about the use of plastic pex pipe. Do some research about micro plastic and plastic water bottles and pipe
Metal pipe is the favorite for the plumbers unions. It costs more, takes longer to install and doesn't last as long. Pex is better for most installations and great for DIY people.
"Copper been there for fifty years, ain't broke don't fix it." How long do you think copper lasts? But then you're the same dude that said a plastic nut on a toilet fill was guaranteed to crack and split and leak all over the place. I really don't think I'd be hiring you.
I used full plastic pex in my house years ago. No leaks, no pressure drops and not a single isssue. Pex is the way to go, solder joints failed everywere in my house.
@@DC9Douglas Shh don't tell him about the air he breaths or what sewage treatment plants do to his water before it get to his house. Dear god he would lose it if he knew what the FDA routinely allows in his food. XD
In Florida, for the past few years, this has been a big conversation and you can go in any cookie cutter neighborhood and see multiple replumb jobs going on. And that's exactly what the talk of the town is that the water is hard and is making pin holes in the copper so they are disconnecting all the copper( Leaving it in the slab) and going into the roof with pex
Parents home was built in the late 70s with a well growing up we had constant pin hole leaks. Once they switched to city water and PEX no issues. I think it depends on the situation
My family installed pex in our cabin because when we got it it had been incorrectly winterized (foreclosure, the bank had a guy come out too late in the season) and all the PVC was shattered, so we had to replace it all. Besides being easier to install, the thought was also that pex might be a bit more freeze tolerant, due to it being softer.
Usually it leaks near Elida and joint. The answer is: before soldering clean the inner tube burr before soldering the joint. Or running water will create turbulence which in turn weaken the tube and later leak
After dealing with copper pipe issues for years, and a freeze ruined them, I replaced with pex. Easier install. Just shut off and drain when freezing temperatures happen, no more issues. Any water remaining that freezes isn’t a problem. I’m a pex fan now.
Had to do that with my old house. Between well water deposits and freezing in the winter(on the Canadian border in the NE) the copper kept leaking or cracking. Took them all out and replaced with Pex. Didn't have an issue after that even with a full freeze the lines didn't leak.
I changed mine while I renovated the house. I was able to install a manifold and did one room at a time. The copper paid for all the new pex when I scrapped it.
As a european where copper is the standard i don't understand why ANYONE would want a plastic line for their DRINKING water... But hey you all like the 2500 additives to food that are banned here too... Ans hard water does not eat away at the copper pipe... We have copper pipes for 80+ years with zero leaks. copper does not rust after all. maby that was not pure copper or the solder used was bad. my lines are currently 47 years old and zero issues DESPITE living 800 yards from the destilation plant so i have way to high water pressure.
@@earthgraduate726 Noone here buys water in bottles youd be a idiot to. Tap water is cleaner then botted water. I pay 1,09 for 1M³ or 2000 small half liter bottles or 260 gallons. Idiots in stores ask that for 1 bottle which is of lower quality. sprint water is highly overrated after 120 years of industry.
I had galvanized and replaced it myself with Pex. Saved thousands on a plumber, I had bits of rust in my water all over the house, if I had copper I would have kept it.
Copper lines freeze and break. But PEX fittings freeze and leak, letting off the excess pressure. The first time I saw that I thought “I’ll have to replace those rings”. Nope. After the pipes thawed everything went back to normal.
When i asked my boss which was better he said. "Ones got petroleum's and micro plastics the others got heavy metals and can be prone to electrolysis depending on what's in your water... They all leak eventually" This is the right approach. They say insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result.
They probably installed bad copper in that guys house when it was built. There were probably a lot of off particles within the copper that allowed corrosion to make a pinhole into the copper. At some point, if the issue is pervasive enough, It would be a good bet to replace the pipes. When pipes fail, they make a mess.
Pin holes in copper happen from joints not being reamed when joined or the water is acidic. PEX will outlast copper unless chloramines in the water is really high or the PEX is in direct sunlight, I believe.
My house, built in 1961, was ALL COPPER. Even the drains are copper. What I learned was that the acids in urine eat away at the copper drains, resulting in pinhole leaks. So, I would recommend PVC to be used on ALL drains. And, hopefully, the plumber will ream or chamfer and clean the cut ends before gluing. That prevents solids or paper from getting snagged and building up inside the pipe. "Do the f***in' job right, or don't do it at all!"
We had a pinhole leak in our PEX line from a mouse that got a bit hungry. Apparently mice like the plastic. Caused around $10k in damage, thank god for insurance...
I've had polybutelene and PEX for 35+ years in 2 homes. My home no issues except for shutoffs. The other house had 2 issues due to improper installation.
Once brass gets corroded, now there is no copper leaks but flood from all the leaking fittings. Pex in areas you dont see ie inside the walls, protected by another tube that directs water out to room with floor drain and copper rest of it. Easy fix, cheaper and more secure.
😮Well for one, you should be using 1 inch PEX to go with 3/4” copper. All the fittings are way under ¾" ID & cause restrictions and will lower water pressure to the faucets, especially higher up in the house 2nd floor & higher. Also not a fan of the copper cinch rings, they don't hold as well as the stainless Oetiker style cinch rings. Hope this helps
I have pex feeding off valves soldered to copper mains. Valves were low quality and rotted away. I soldered new valves in, they too rotted away. Then I realized over time. If I thoroughly wiped away solder flux, no rot.
My cabin is at 8600 ft. After changing everything to pex in 2013 I have never had an issue of any kind. I could never say that about copper. I can think of no reason to use copper on any project.
My parents have brazed type K copper pipes and they are not going anywhere. My house is going to have PEX but, if the PEX piping starts failing, I’ll splurge on repiping it with thick walled copper pipe with brazing instead of soldering
Sounds more like they're having a grounding issue with their electrical. A lot of old homes ground to their water lines and AC power destroys metal. Hard water doesn't eat away at water lines, if anything it would do the opposite, extremely pure water can be a problem though
Just updated my whole house to copper from the old school cast shit. It was a doozy but my team and I did it ourselves so not to bad. Came out super nice. Also slapped in a Halo 5
Pinhole leaks increase with improperly deburred pipes when you have hard water. It is important to deburr the pipes well if you replace the copper with the same. From my understanding, it causes turbulence that causes the sediment to change direction and collide with pipe walls. The minerals in the water become little projectiles that slowly gouge the pipe walls. With no burr, the water flows more smoothly and is less likely to collide with the ]walls.
so there is a thin copper pipe and a tick one you can buy and there is also rolled copper you can buy which when you unroll it, it stretches and causes this spots so if this is the case and its causing pin hole leaks i understand. ive repaired a ton of those and they destroy flooring, drywall and alot more.
If you pull copper out of my walls, it is my copper.
i mean the guys did in fact leave all the copper in my living room floor so i guess that's standard practice
Even if I do a water line job and there's left over pipe I ask the client if they want the remainder before I take it. Most say no but it's technically your pipe you paid for it
@@pippylongdingle7724this is how it should be done.
Plastic sucks. Particularly on hot water pipes.
@@Esciem9 where is that on your contract?
The microplastics are an added bonus
But the industry and plumbers told me there's no possibility of plastic leaching! They wouldn't lie to me to make more money, would they?
Thank you! We ingest enough microplastics as it is. I’ll stick to copper.
@@Danny-fs1hkhard/heavy metals instead I guess ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
@@Danny-fs1hktheirs microplastics in unborn babies its not changing anything
@Mor870 it is changing everything.
Hard water doesn't eat away copper, soft water does.
Galvanic action, can and will cause pin hole leaks anywhere in the system.
Not reaming your pipe with cause pin hole leaks at the fittings, as well as not washing the flux off your pipe after sweating.
Hard water most definitely eats away at copper and pex is better than copper in every way
Na low ph eats away at your copper. I work in water treatment I've never ever seen soft water eat away at copper
@@mercwithacat9938i think you need to get familiar with the basics. Low ph IS soft water. From the service side of things....ever see that blue/green stain on porcelain in the tub, faucet or sink? That's due to soft water.
My understanding of hardware erosion is the dissolved mineral content of high ph will thin the inside walls of copper through mechanical means unlike soft water erosion will through chemical reaction.
But I agree, not treating hard water can lead to many issues.
Well water is typically hard water, and it definitely eats away at copper pipes. That's why people need a water softener. I've dealt with many buildings with pin holes and thinning pipes from hard water. It also destroys any brass on the lines as well
You got no clue
You need some kind of metal in the water to make galvanic corrosion so hard water it is
- PEX withstands some freezing/expansion. Approximately 4-6x cheaper than copper (parts/labour). Easier and quicker to install/repair. Home run setups are possible. Better hard water tolerance. No risk of galvanic corrosion.
- Copper can be used outdoors/in sunlight. High temperature tolerant (e.g. heating).
PEX is ideal due to cost. For the price and lifespan of copper (~50 years), I could plumb a house in PEX (assumed 25 year lifespan) twice for less than half the cost of copper.
If you ask most plumbers what they would pipe in their home if money was not an issue it would be copper. Saying that looking at the cost of fittings and piping of rolled K copper and L copper as long as one does the piping himself it is not that expensive and the home you do it in if you treat the water you will never have to do another repipe. With pex rats/mice can chew through the material, the pex does not hold up to chlorine and chloramine (pex A holds up the most but is still susceptible), UV light expsoure can shorten the lifespan. I seen pex a and b fail many times from rats/mice chewing on it, and chlorine/chloramine exposure. Uponor was failing just from the dye on the pipe and the 90 bends they make for the pipe. Copper on average ive seen 35-50 years in my area and we have hard water. Even the city lines are failing and those are pex. The US is going backwards due to the wealthy and banks making economic decisions that benefit themselves at the expense of everyone else and then drive a market of "innovation" to sell cheap materials to offset the inflation that has occured due to these decisions. Look at a can of pipe dope and a roll of teflon tape (ingredients) then tell me thats innovation verse using something like twine and grease. Your ingesting all of this and your health is worth more than the cost difference of some fittings and pipe.
Is it a healthy option- im trying to decide- Microplastics ect?
I see some builders that have long ago switched to pex because the savings I'm sure, but the builders we work for pay well and we still run the main service stack and the water heaters in copper and still solder , I enjoy it
You do what the client wants, and if that’s the cheaper plastic and less labor, it is what it is.
Plumber here. Hard water does not eat copper pipes. Soft water doesn't either.
Copper pinholes for several reasons, one of which is erosion over time. Like the grand canyon, 50yr old pipe is going to wear down.
Copper is useful because it developes that dark patina of oxides that keep it from rusting. But there are siutations that stop the patina from forming.
Galvanic corrosion is one, and ammonia is another. Ammonia basically dissolves copper, so windex and the like are a no go. Connections between other metals can sometimes cause the copper to either steal electrons or have them stolen from it. This is why it's important to electrically isolate copper pipe.
We use electrical tape or PVC tape commonly. In general, you don't want two metals touching unless you know they wont make a sacrificial diode (one metal stealing electrons from the other).
What is the best pipe system for a house in regards to reliability and maintenance cost in your opinion ?
@@earthgraduate726 PEX A (A pex, the extruded kind). Can't beat the cost. I like copper but the $$$ isn't for everyone.
Easy/cheap to repair, cheap to install, lasts nearly forever.
sacrificial anode
Copper does not rust.
@@earthgraduate726 schedule M copper for the win and at minimum K copper. L copper is where things start to go bad
Pressure loss at each fitting.
If their water is aggressive on copper, it will de-zinc that brass quicker.
Only with pex B like they are using. Pex A fittings have the same inner diameter as the pipe.
@Tekagi Come back after you've been plumbing for more than a year.
@@SludgeTubenot exactly, but it is closer.
So you're saying they should've used the plastic fittings? I'm skeptical
@@a-a-ron6822 they’re use plastic pipes aren’t they? If you can trust plastic pipe you can trust plastic fittings
Changed completely to 3/4 pex in my 1870 build duplex 10 years ago. No issues yet. Best decision ever!
Even if it's not better than copper, it's far better than cpvc at minimum. Slightly more expensive quick connectors but infinitely easier to maintain/upgrade couplings/piping.
my dad called me about a leak underneath his kitchen in the crawl space, I got down there and it was some janky setup where there was one single T with 3 different connections.... galvanized, cpvc, and copper from the meter to that T, no main shutoff or anything in the house, the cpvc on the hot side was spewing all over the place, luckily just ran to local hardware store for another cpvc male adapter and actually installed a shutoff as well
Cpvc is a low bar.
How is it better?
@@enb3810 Right maybe in ideal circumstances. Copper might be pretty tough, but it can't take a freeze like pex. I find pex to be objectively overall a better value.
When i use to work at a plumbing store, i learned that pex repairs, were nonstop. Mostly from pest damages. I am certain, pest love to chew on pex. 😅
That’s valuable knowledge that doesn’t get brought up often. Thanks!
Pex is the worst rats absolutely chew right through it!!
Copper pipe corrosion is usually on the bottom of the cold lines from excess flux from installation laying inside on the bottom and slow rot.
Excessive what?
@@gtarules1 He said excess flux, as in the plumber put too much flux on the joint before soldering.
First accurate comment. Old Oaty #5
So you don't use flux on hot pipe lol clown
@@Eighty7Yearsnot really but is comment he don't use flux on the hot water pipe?
Make no sense
Over 25 years ago we built a cabin in the woods. An nan pex And we tiled the entire floor system. And in the winter that tile floor was extremely cold. So we came back with half inch pex, ran over 350 ft of pex and fastened it to the floor system between the floor joists. And hooked it up to a circulating pump to the Hot water heater. And hooked it up to a thermostat in the house !!!! It took about 24 hours for the floor to start warming up. After 48 hours the floor temperature maintained like 77°.
Perfect solution! Radiant heat is the best solution for majority of our houses. Don’t forget sufficient insulation .
@@mar1videowell when we originally built the cabin it was only supposed to be for summer. Nothing later than November 1st. Put a lady want to rent it. She absolutely loved it other than the tile floors were cold in December.
Those brass fitting, I have seen problems in hard water conditions after 7-10 yrs
I prefer the poly connectors myself. Cheaper and they don’t corrode.
I could see minerals buildup causing a blockage.
I just bought o-rings for an outdoor faucet. The seals were fine, but a large deposit was stuck inside. It was the size of a pea.
Wish I'd read that a year ago. Thought I was doing the right thing and paying more for the brass ones
I've got cast iron, copper, pex, and PVC throughout my house. The main line in is cast, it goes to copper to the outside water spigots. It also splits off to PVC that runs to fixtures in the house. From the PVC it goes to pex through the walls.
Ive seen home from the 70's with thin type M copper that needs a full replacement, Usually on well water.
The only time I use type M is for condensate drain water.
@@akan626 I'm in the northeast, we have alot of hydronic heating systems, often times that will be ran in type M or pex. It doesn't have fresh water constantly running thru it.
I'd say 50 years is pretty damn good.
My house is around 35 years old with K copper, and I have already had several of them fail with pinhole leaks...
@@RayZde that’s exactly what I was thinking, 50 years is more than enough service life, especially with the microplastics that are released from PEX.
There’s nothing on modern builds that is built to last 50 years these days so they’re complaining about a nonissue
I replumbded every exosed pipe in my basement with pex and ran the routing more nearly than it had been and its been...shit, prob 12 years now at least. Never had a leak once so far! Not to mention how easy pex is to work with.
Also using shark bite fittings on non hidden/non sealed off piping is just top tier imo, especially for the average home owner!
My company has piped thousands of apartment units with uponor pex, and to my knowledge we have had zero leaks in PEX
We’ve fixed several leak in uponor pex red water lines. They were installed by the original builders plumbers. We only use the clear. Not sure what’s up
😂 new work guy claiming they never seen a leak. No shit! Really? You mean looking at new work everyday gives you experience to make decisions from day 3 and on ? The guy that’s seen red pipe leak. That’s new construction morons leaving red in the pickup for too long. Blue gets used too quickly to sit in a truck. 30 days of u v is a no no. Realizing incandescent lighting gives off u v rays is a huge must. But most of the new construction won’t know what happens to a structure after the 1 year warranty is up.
😂 imagine bragging about your career then after 20 years experience. You still can’t give more than a year warranty. And fight tooth and nail to honor it twice. Once is too much. Yall ain’t coming back twice.
@@What_Now_111PEX-B?
@@pjplumber2146nothing you’re saying is an incitement of PEX, just of shitty contractors who don’t know how to store it.
Yea the clear stuff and using the uponor fittings there’s a 25 year warranty for leaks as long as you use their fittings and do it properly
We have 60+ year old copper pipes in a 5 stories building leaking since 5 years and the homeowner just brings stupid plumbers that don't fix the problem, I haven't had cold water for 3 years, everything has to pass through the boiler first so I can only shower extremely hot. It is a pain and no similar cases from court where you could lessen rent, because we still have water.
If you're on a well system, it's definitely worth it to switch to pex. Like you said, pinholes every year. Additionally, it's suggested not to use brass fittings as they will corrode over time. Found this out when a couple of mine started seeping after 5 years. New install used nylon fittings is what I believe they installed. Also switched to county water.
County water = metered water. No thank you. I use too much water in my garden to be on a meter ❗️
40+ years on my well, not a single pin hole.
@@mtraven23 - galvanized pipes or copper ?
@@mar1video everything is copper in my house. I have no problem with pex...just saying, I've had copper for a long time, with very hard well water & had no problems with my pipes.
@@mtraven23 - thank you for your input . I still have galvanized pipes and I’m on a well water as well, but I would like to switch to copper.
Fun fact, recently I’ve seen some rental apartments being remodeled, and they’ve used all copper, all around, including vent lines . 3 or 4 inch copper vents ? Crazy ! I asked the worker why, and he responded that’s what they (company that owns the property) asked for. So it tells you, they won’t touch this property for next 20 years.
Pex is preferred but, I always recommend some copper for its anti bacterial properties especially near faucets and ice makers where it’s easy access.
I’m wondering what health effects there will be when using plastic pipe for water esp when there’s so much on the news about microplastics contaminating our water
Most of the cities have plastic main lines. The last few feet won't matter much. And with copper, you get metal leaching into the the water
you dont, the water doesnt directly contact the copper after some time as minerals stick to the walls, creating a protective layer @@foodooyou1
@@MisterAssasine So wouldn't the same go for plastic? But also, if you are having minerals form a complete coating to the inside of pipes, you desperately need water treatment.
@@MisterAssasineWhat kind of logic is that? The mineral can accumulate on both plastic and copper. Also you need to look up CPVC that is actually used in the entire world, from home to streets. That pipe has been proven to be completely safe and even better than PVC, copper whatever. Can handle heat and pressure.
@@TheDeathLoveCome over to my neighbors house, he had his lines changed from copper to pex 3 years ago and the water smells like gasoline when it comes out and is undrinkable. He can't afford to have it changed back now. They always say these things are safe until they're not, and we know copper is safe. Stop spreading lies you're probably a plumber.
Copper, silver, gold, and also any alloys that use any of those metals, are naturally antimicrobial. And very effective ones too. They kill microscopic organisms when they touch the elements/alloys. And there are few exceptions too, they will kill most forms of bacteria, fungi, and viruses.
This is why I prefer brass doorknobs and copper pipes. Out of the three metal elements of copper, silver, and gold, copper and its alloys are the most antimicrobial. Also, I just don’t need any more methods of getting microplastics into my body.
It is also why I have been a silent supporter of bringing brass doorknobs to schools and hospitals to help with germs.
Packs will never last if you use brass fittings you should use plastic fittings especially on well water and if you know you have hard water because the Brush will eat away quicker than the copper.
saw someone comment this same thing on one of his videos months ago, im guessing hes doing it on purpose for additional work in the future lol
It actually says it on the brass fittings packaging: not for use with well water
Our plumber repiped a leak in foundation with pex, because of price, time and flexibility, and gave us the removed pipe as a general courtesy, all 4 pieces of it... but also used direct and transfer copper fittings with pex inbetween.
Our house flooded while it was abandoned and had a bunch of split pipes. Pex handles freezing far better IF it ever happens again. Unless your walls are already down though I don't see the need to switch
If your cooper pipes are freezing inside you have bigger problems
My copper pipes froze, but didn’t burst. On the other hand they came apart on four separate connections (elbows and T)
@@sercanserj7804 Yes, the house being abandoned for 3 years with the utilities still hooked up.
@@mar1video I had a lot of that to deal with as well. I think a big part of this convo is also how good was the plumber who did your copper. solder has room for error if you hand it to an idiot like me.
@@BaldGuyComedy - i did it myself, and can’t blame anyone else for this 😃
Insurance premiums where I live go up if you disclose the presence of PEX. We removed ours and our house insurance dropped by a few hundred dollars
My homes 106 years old all solid cooper even the natural gas lines and 4 times as thick than modern pipes. Funny thing is no leaks.
My house is 90 years old ... it's mostly galvanized. No leaks, but I'm guessing the inside of pipes are like straws by now.
@@Vincerama well my sewer drain is clay tiles so you can't win them all yet my homes down spouts go directly into (?????) I'm not allowed to say but it's grandfathered in and I'm definitely not fixing something that works perfectly!
my place was built in 52. Replaced all the lines with pex. Replaced all the faucets but the shower. Recent work in the neighborhood, water was broke 20 or so times in a year. Was amusing to dunk on maintenance, who tried to use old pipes as an excuse. Followed with faucets. 😂😂😂 Next day they dug up the same location they where at and found 2 breaks. Finks. 😂
@@Shenkosky disgusting
@@Vincerama yeah probably like that, our galvanized stuff from around that era didnt get pinhole leaks like the newer stuff but time fills every water pipe with iron and causes problems in the surrounding pipes. Our Plumber that changed a lot of the pipes with me said those really old pipes are better at corrosion resistance because they have less recycled metal in them.(Probably some accidental high alloy steel parts making it into the mix nowadays)
My old house built in the 60s was all copper before the renovation. After the renovation it was still mostly copper with just replaced brass fittings. None of the old plumbing was broken it was just time for an update to the old bathrooms and kitchen. Kept the original bathtub drains and it was all original thick copper pipe. No point ripping up old plaster walls and pipes if nothing is broken and its lasted 50 years already.
If they have hard water then it’s better to use plastics fittings. Personally I almost always use the plastic fittings because I’ve not seen them have any issues
It's the other way around: soft water is way more corrosive to copper then hard water.
Replaced my copper lines with pex when i installed my HW heater. So easy to work with, and I kept the copper too.
installed a water softener for my neighbor used pex, it made it a lot easier to work with the minimal space in the crawl space and get around the random boards in the way
Culligan Man here.
Copper piping is cool and is also a natural disinfectant. It's been a great water delivery pipe. HOWEVER, due to increasing water problems (mot solely water hardness) found in the city tap supply and even well water, harder minerals are coating onto the water delivery pipes. ON TOP OF THAT, reverse osmosis (RO) water is an aggressive water that will eat through copper pipes, but not PEX and PVC.
With more homes needing Whole House RO, the best decision one can do is put PEX into their home if they can. If you live in a state where it snows, its VERY IMPORTANT to insulate that PEX properly.
We use legend hyper pure pex. 100yr warranty, can’t find copper with that. We’re only seeing 25-35 years on copper around here.
Is legionella a concern over where you're at?
Good luck with that claim
Ahhhh love the lead solder on my old copper pipes
DIY for sure
My dad is a retired plumber (about 8 years) and when "pex" first came out he hated it, but in it's iteration in the last 5 years of his career he totally came around.
I have seen it both ways, copper that pinholed within a few years, and copper that is 60-70 years old that is still holding up just fine. I use Viega PEX with bronze (not brass) fittings for higher end installs, poly (plastic) fittings for standard.
Copper is a natural anti bacterial
I learned this from old rich people. Rich people in the 1800-early1900 would have silver and gold dust, which would be used to coat fresh pills and medicine. Most metals are anti bacterial and are used in medicine
@@s3rye306most metals are also toxic to humans (heavy metals, which copper is).
It is, but if copper pipes put enough copper into the water to kill bacteria it'd kill you too.
The actual effect of copper piping is that it's way more smooth then PEX piping making it harder for biofilm to accumulate. adding to that the system used has fittings with smaller inner diameters then the tubing, which is a bacteria's heaven since it will have small no-flow zones at the start and end of every fitting.
Sorry for the stonecoal English...
@@s3rye306 until recently silver was used (not often though) to kill off legionella bacteria in drinking water systems. They lowered the maximum amount to non-detectable (on the standard test) levels thus killing this method. They did so 'cause silver in the body tends to be bad for you...
@@doffer115 I didn't say it was good for you. Just has some good properties, like anti bacterial
Remember back in the 80's when Poly-B was the greatest plumbing invention ever? I hope we have better success with PEX 30 years form now.
I laugh at all these DIY plumbers going with pex. I’ve seen a handful of copper issues, I’ve seen way too many pex problems 😅
like what lol
My parents bought an 1850s house in Saratoga Springs, New York and had all the piping torn out it was hundreds and hundreds of pounds of copper pipe. Was only 16 at the time, but I saw it getting lugged out to their truck, when I asked them if it was part of the deal that they got to keep the scrap. They said no, so I took that to the scrapyard was the most money I’ve ever held at the time 😂
As someone with 30 year old PEX plumbing, it works perfectly fine.
Good to see a plumber using the right brass fittings instead of the plastic.
Been using pex in norway for 25 years
I live in Norway and my house is part copper and pex
And?
In my area well water is the worst for copper lines. But when we replace all the lines with PEX we use the plastic PEX fittings because those brass fittings will thin out if the water is bad as well. All those brass fittings will have to be replaced at some point. Some fittings you have to use brass. But we recommend removing as much brass and copper as possible unless they get a whole house filtration and softener system after replacing the pipes
If the local tap water allows it, always go with copper piping with silver sodder. Pex leeches microplastics and chemicals over time. Silver/copper leeches slowly as well, but neither are bad for you in low concentrations. Nobody knows the long term side effects of excessive microplastics in the blood and organs. There has however been a reduction in average life expectancy in the last 40 years for healthy people (non-obese, non-smoker) due to health issues.
My home was plumbed in '35 with heavy guage 3/4" copper. I suffered from Plenty of pressure but no volume, copper lines were corroded to less than a 1/4" of flow.😮😮. It was a pay day, the copper by wt paid for entire pex replacement plus beer money
Nothing like microplastics in your water supply. And yes, running water through any plastic pipe or container does create microplastics. Bottled water has an absurd amount of microplastics in them. Confirm these facts for yourself if you don’t believe me
I did because my pipes were galvanized steel and I have hard well water. My plumber said it was the best way to get it done. I am very pleased with the results.
Pex for the win 🏆
the simplicity, flexibility, and ice-proof nature of PEX sold me from the start. just gotta keep it out of the sun!
Properly installed copper has roughly a 75yr life span. Plastic has roughly a 25yr life span.
Estimated life of PEX is 100 years.. it's not ordinary plastic
@@bobloblaw10001 and where did you get that from?
@@bobloblaw10001 ya sure I have some plastic pipe from the 90s I need to strip out or my insurance will not cover the damage.
@@robertguay3773 mostly likely polybutylene not pex
@robertguay3773 those are probably polybutylene not pex.
That's the beauty of PEX though, even if it only lasts 25 years, replacing a section of it is super easy and takes much less time or effort than copper or CPVC.
In many cases PEX will endure years longer than copper due to mineral's & such in well water.
In my home I used all copper except for one outside line which uses PEX A. I choose that due to its higher elasticity in case of freezing temperatures.
I’ve heard of rats chewing copper lines to get it water after eating rat bait but I’ve never personally seen it. I have seen them chew through Pex lines many many times. And I’m not even a plumber. I’m a heating and air guy.. that stuff has made me some easy money..
The trailer we lived in growing up was only about 20-25 years old, the copper pipe was riddled with pin holes and had to be replaced. My step-dad replaced it with PVC. There was no PEX back then.
The micro plastics that they will now be digesting will also be their demise
Most of what I've read indicates that the micro plastics in our environment comes from tires. The second most are from plastics degrading in sunlight.
The city runs their lines in plastic to you. Sometimes miles and miles of line. But you’re worried about the last 50’.
I don’t know what city you’re talking about but in the North East it’s always metal pipe.
Yes I am very worried about the use of plastic pex pipe.
Do some research about micro plastic and plastic water bottles and pipe
Metal pipe is the favorite for the plumbers unions. It costs more, takes longer to install and doesn't last as long.
Pex is better for most installations and great for DIY people.
Don't forget to carry the bond if there is any other copper in the home left.
"Copper been there for fifty years, ain't broke don't fix it."
How long do you think copper lasts? But then you're the same dude that said a plastic nut on a toilet fill was guaranteed to crack and split and leak all over the place.
I really don't think I'd be hiring you.
I only make videos on stuff I’ve seen brother. Thx for watchin maybe we can plumb together one day 🤭
@@APplumbing00 nice job man. When creators respond this way to naysaying it makes the other guy look like a jerk
I used full plastic pex in my house years ago. No leaks, no pressure drops and not a single isssue. Pex is the way to go, solder joints failed everywere in my house.
The less plastic our water pumps through the better
Yeah, but remember.... most drinks are sold in plastic bottles and cups. 😂
@@DC9Douglas Shh don't tell him about the air he breaths or what sewage treatment plants do to his water before it get to his house. Dear god he would lose it if he knew what the FDA routinely allows in his food. XD
gotta love the folgers bucket
F1960 Expansion Pex A is the shiznit.
In Florida, for the past few years, this has been a big conversation and you can go in any cookie cutter neighborhood and see multiple replumb jobs going on. And that's exactly what the talk of the town is that the water is hard and is making pin holes in the copper so they are disconnecting all the copper( Leaving it in the slab) and going into the roof with pex
Lots of older appliances also rely on metallic piping for electrical ground. Always check
Parents home was built in the late 70s with a well growing up we had constant pin hole leaks. Once they switched to city water and PEX no issues. I think it depends on the situation
If constant pin holes it could be electrolysis and you will want to make sure you go around the pex with a ground wire in the event of a neutral loss.
My family installed pex in our cabin because when we got it it had been incorrectly winterized (foreclosure, the bank had a guy come out too late in the season) and all the PVC was shattered, so we had to replace it all. Besides being easier to install, the thought was also that pex might be a bit more freeze tolerant, due to it being softer.
Usually it leaks near Elida and joint. The answer is: before soldering clean the inner tube burr before soldering the joint. Or running water will create turbulence which in turn weaken the tube and later leak
The copper pipes at my place are probably about 70 years old. I don’t see pex lasting that long.
After dealing with copper pipe issues for years, and a freeze ruined them, I replaced with pex.
Easier install.
Just shut off and drain when freezing temperatures happen, no more issues.
Any water remaining that freezes isn’t a problem.
I’m a pex fan now.
Had to do that with my old house. Between well water deposits and freezing in the winter(on the Canadian border in the NE) the copper kept leaking or cracking. Took them all out and replaced with Pex. Didn't have an issue after that even with a full freeze the lines didn't leak.
I changed mine while I renovated the house. I was able to install a manifold and did one room at a time. The copper paid for all the new pex when I scrapped it.
I've used pex to replace expired gray tube in a trailer. It is cheap and easy to work with and will last indefinitely .
As a european where copper is the standard i don't understand why ANYONE would want a plastic line for their DRINKING water... But hey you all like the 2500 additives to food that are banned here too...
Ans hard water does not eat away at the copper pipe... We have copper pipes for 80+ years with zero leaks. copper does not rust after all. maby that was not pure copper or the solder used was bad. my lines are currently 47 years old and zero issues DESPITE living 800 yards from the destilation plant so i have way to high water pressure.
I don't know anyone who drink water from water tap . Everyone buy plastic bottles of water.
@@earthgraduate726 Noone here buys water in bottles youd be a idiot to. Tap water is cleaner then botted water. I pay 1,09 for 1M³ or 2000 small half liter bottles or 260 gallons. Idiots in stores ask that for 1 bottle which is of lower quality. sprint water is highly overrated after 120 years of industry.
I had galvanized and replaced it myself with Pex. Saved thousands on a plumber, I had bits of rust in my water all over the house, if I had copper I would have kept it.
I personally changed it due to a 3/4 line being changed to 1/2 before anything on the line and putting 3/4 pex is easier than 3/4 copper.
Copper lines freeze and break.
But PEX fittings freeze and leak, letting off the excess pressure.
The first time I saw that I thought “I’ll have to replace those rings”.
Nope.
After the pipes thawed everything went back to normal.
When i asked my boss which was better he said.
"Ones got petroleum's and micro plastics the others got heavy metals and can be prone to electrolysis depending on what's in your water... They all leak eventually"
This is the right approach. They say insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result.
I've done a lot of polybutylene to pexs repipes but I haven't done too many copper to PEX
They probably installed bad copper in that guys house when it was built. There were probably a lot of off particles within the copper that allowed corrosion to make a pinhole into the copper. At some point, if the issue is pervasive enough, It would be a good bet to replace the pipes. When pipes fail, they make a mess.
My sister and her husband were in a house that had copper from China. The hair took on a green tint.
Pin holes in copper happen from joints not being reamed when joined or the water is acidic. PEX will outlast copper unless chloramines in the water is really high or the PEX is in direct sunlight, I believe.
Thank you for leaving a repairable Sheetrock hole. Most plumbers wouldn’t leave half the stud to mount to.
Most homes in my area went with PEC because of the copper scrap looting during the housing crisis of 2008 and never went back .
I am torn. I would like to keep the astetic and flow of the home, but also modernize without completely replumbing the home
My house, built in 1961, was ALL COPPER. Even the drains are copper. What I learned was that the acids in urine eat away at the copper drains, resulting in pinhole leaks. So, I would recommend PVC to be used on ALL drains. And, hopefully, the plumber will ream or chamfer and clean the cut ends before gluing. That prevents solids or paper from getting snagged and building up inside the pipe.
"Do the f***in' job right, or don't do it at all!"
We had a pinhole leak in our PEX line from a mouse that got a bit hungry. Apparently mice like the plastic. Caused around $10k in damage, thank god for insurance...
The water where I live 20 years is the normal lifetime for copper pipes. It's classed as hard water. Gotta love qld bore water
I've had polybutelene and PEX for 35+ years in 2 homes. My home no issues except for shutoffs.
The other house had 2 issues due to improper installation.
To all plumbers in 1986 a huge batch of copper was made in s. Carolina that was defective and formed pin hole leaks after a few years
Once brass gets corroded, now there is no copper leaks but flood from all the leaking fittings. Pex in areas you dont see ie inside the walls, protected by another tube that directs water out to room with floor drain and copper rest of it. Easy fix, cheaper and more secure.
😮Well for one, you should be using 1 inch PEX to go with 3/4” copper. All the fittings are way under ¾" ID & cause restrictions and will lower water pressure to the faucets, especially higher up in the house 2nd floor & higher. Also not a fan of the copper cinch rings, they don't hold as well as the stainless Oetiker style cinch rings. Hope this helps
I have pex feeding off valves soldered to copper mains. Valves were low quality and rotted away. I soldered new valves in, they too rotted away. Then I realized over time. If I thoroughly wiped away solder flux, no rot.
My cabin is at 8600 ft.
After changing everything to pex in 2013 I have never had an issue of any kind.
I could never say that about copper.
I can think of no reason to use copper on any project.
My parents have brazed type K copper pipes and they are not going anywhere. My house is going to have PEX but, if the PEX piping starts failing, I’ll splurge on repiping it with thick walled copper pipe with brazing instead of soldering
Sounds more like they're having a grounding issue with their electrical. A lot of old homes ground to their water lines and AC power destroys metal. Hard water doesn't eat away at water lines, if anything it would do the opposite, extremely pure water can be a problem though
Just updated my whole house to copper from the old school cast shit. It was a doozy but my team and I did it ourselves so not to bad. Came out super nice. Also slapped in a Halo 5
Pinhole leaks increase with improperly deburred pipes when you have hard water. It is important to deburr the pipes well if you replace the copper with the same. From my understanding, it causes turbulence that causes the sediment to change direction and collide with pipe walls. The minerals in the water become little projectiles that slowly gouge the pipe walls. With no burr, the water flows more smoothly and is less likely to collide with the ]walls.
so there is a thin copper pipe and a tick one you can buy and there is also rolled copper you can buy which when you unroll it, it stretches and causes this spots so if this is the case and its causing pin hole leaks i understand. ive repaired a ton of those and they destroy flooring, drywall and alot more.