Great video! I remember when Attack of the Clones came out and my friend and I immediately started talking about good ole Jaster Mereel and what it all meant lol
Remember seeing Star Wars and my imagination and life was never the same again for a 7 year old in 1978. Never forget my dear Aunty taking me to see it, miss you love your nephew.
Hearing that people claimed Lucas didn’t understand or care about Star Wars fans the same way people say Disney doesn’t understand or care about Star Wars fans is hilarious. “It’s like poetry...it rhymes “
John-Patrick Alexander In the behind the scenes features he talks about why he made Luke the way he did. He said that JJ didn’t have a reason why Luke was in exile on the island, and the only thing he could think of was to make Luke have given up. Even though in the OT we see two Jedi who were in exile but hadn’t given up on the Jedi.
@@griffinshearer8265 Why would a hopeful but defeated Luke Skywalker go into exile and ghost himself from his friends when he has the luxury of the First Order not wiping out the New Republic yet?
The blog posts in #14 are hilarious. George literally said that he never saw the out of film material as canon, so those books meant nothing. That’s something that people who complain about the EU not being canon today need to realize: it never was.
It’s weird because he then goes ahead and has a higher up at Lucasfilm make sure the Plagueis novel doesn’t “reveal too much” meaning he thought it was canon then. He seems to contradict his own beliefs at times and I feel like it just boils down to he didn’t care lol
@@castielffboi Plagueis being Vader's father isn't also Lucas's vision. He originally was going to make Palpatine as Vader's father in Revenge of the Sith and that has been canonized.
Star masterc Where has it been canonized just curious and also I don’t remember there ever being any confirmation that Plagueis was ever Anakins father (he did the whole midichlorian stuff but it was really vague)
André Dulac Yeah it was. George Lucas even had a hand in making sure that the Plagueis novel was written so that it didn’t “reveal too much about him”. Why would he care about revealing too much if it wasn’t canon? Dave had basically all of the say in TCW and George just kinda went with it
+Cun Xu He never said he didn't care and he was involved in a few major projects but his general policy was "Star Wars in a universe let people make what they want".
@@Steeler69er cause the named the character was on The Phantom Menace (1999) and the OT was Made in 1977 to 1983. Luke and Leia's mom had no name when those movies ware made
I don't know nor think this is the reason: i think mostly it was because they wanted to tell stories that worked for this generation of audiences (and not just addressed to a specific demographics of young adults comic readers and novel readers), and they didn't want to explain everything that happened in legends that affects the continuity of our main characters (like the death of Chewbacca) nor make adaptations of books, Star Wars movies were never like that and shouldn't (imo). But, this is the reason why i don't mind that they did reboot the EU. I read all the classic Marvel comics, and they contradict everything with Dark Horse era of comics. I never took continuity seriously, some of my favourite SW stories doesn't affect the overall continuity anyways.
Moral to the story: Don’t have a conniption if Rise of Skywalker does any retconning to any part of the SW timeline. It’s been done since practically 1978.
Other moral. Don't hate on legends for being a little inconsistent and claim the new canon is perfect when it's about to have the biggest retcon ever with palpatine.
They doubled down on that concept in Rebels with the World Between Worlds. The Past, Present, and Future are all simultaneously happening and Force Users can sometimes get a glimpse of the past or present through the Force, sort of like a small window into a larger world. Its weird but it’s a great concept
Sometimes people remember weird things from when they were practically babies. I remember a dream I had when I was like 2. Leia having memory is not that weird, especially if amplified by the force. That said, I do kinda like the description in the new novelization...
When I started reading the EU in 2000, I went into it knowing all of the lore was not canon and could/would be changed and disregarded by the films. When Disney labeled the EU as Legends, I understood why. They did not and should not want to be beholden to what came before in their new films. In Star Wars, much like in Star Trek, only the films and official TV shows are canon.
The biggest retcon in Star Wars history is ironically one of the biggest twists in cinema: "I'm your father". From the wookiepedia: "In Episode IV, Ben Kenobi told Luke Skywalker that his father was betrayed and murdered by a pupil of his, Darth Vader. Episode V reveals Darth Vader to be Luke Skywalker's father."
Pretty late to comment this but same for luke and leia not growing up together. Making them siblings creates a plot hole there. Why does luke hrow up as a skywalker. A rewrite where luke never had a last name wouldve helped.
Darth Vader was originally intended to be the villain for the 77 film only and was not intended to be Luke's father. Then, because he became so popular, George decided to make him Luke's father and the main villain of ESB too. Make a part 2 soon!
Grilled Sirloin Steak It was the idea of a bad father (Vader) and a good father (Anakin) in several of the earlier drafts of the film. Eventually the two characters ended up becoming one and I guess the name just kinda stuck. Lucky, really lol.
Not to mention the producer or director of Empire (i think) said that lucas claiming he had the story from day 1 it's total BS. not even after the first movie he had the entire thing. He kept making things up as he went, Leia wasn't originally Luke's sister, there was going to be another saga in which Luke would go to find his sister, but while making REVENGE Of The Jedi (that was a change as well) Lucas pretty much said "eeh screw it, i'm done with this so Leia is the sister so i don't have to make another movie to explain anything"
It was hinted in 3 scenes that Vader was Lukes father in the first movie. So at least they made the decision before they shot the first movie. Maybe those clues were a late change to the script.
@@grilledsirloinsteak172 Could very well be a coincidence. You can make the case that Vader is just Invader with the first two letter cut off (which would make sense since the Empire were invaders).
Another retcon regarding the Death Star's plans: In X-Wing, the plans were intercepted by a Rebel listening post. In Dark Forces, it was Kyle Katarn who stole these. The retcon explains that only parts of the plans were received both times. The A-Wing retcon: One source (I don't know which one) stated that the A-Wing was introduced after Yavin. But X-Wing shows the A-Wing in service before Yavin. That retcon explains that the A-Wing seen in X-Wing was a predecessor model called the R-22 Spearhead.
If someone told me the worst scene of all star wars Is that fucking scene, not i don't like sand, not jar jar steaping shit, not space leia, not cg tarkin, not han getting His second name, not the endless galery of whatthefuckery from the holyday special , Is that god damm dance Sequence.... Don't even try to change my mind.
I remember the mando controversy caused by The Clone Wars season 2. I really liked Karen Travis’s books. I didn’t know how I felt about the changes clone wars made at first, but I eventually just looked over at my EU collection and said no point reading this shit anymore and just went with the show and I enjoyed it. Rebels depiction of Mandos brought them back a lot closer to Travis’s stuff though.
I wish there were more videos like this, it’s always interesting to see earlier ideas of how the Star Wars universe may have been. My favorite has always been how different the clone wars were.
It was establsihed. In a movie called Star Wars. It came out in 1977. "Vader betrayed and murdeed your father." Full stop. The retcon is that obi-wan lied. When he originally was not intended to.
Except that nobody thought it looked like Obi-wan was hiding something until *after* Empire and Jedi. In truth, he was just hesitant to tell a 19 year old kid tht his father was murdered.
I was glad when Legends got retconned because I didn't have any friends who were into Legends when I was a kid and I felt overwhelmed, not knowing where to start in the mountain of stories (many of which weren't the best). I love the new canon, but I have recently gotten around to reading the old Thrawn trilogy and I am currently in the middle of Spectre of the Past. I feel like both Canon and Legends have thier merits, and there are things I prefer and dislike in both. One doesn't necessarily discredit the other, much the same way Marvel Comics and the MCU can coexist with the same characters.
At least both you can see the merits both legends and canon for being Star Wars and don't needless shit on one or the another for not being "Real Star Wars."
So you're glad that 30+ years of canon got retconned in exchange for pointless filler, or poorly written nostalgia rehashing because you didn't fit ? That's an embarassingly stupid excuse, I'm sorry...
I wouldn't even say the EU was "scrapped" per se. The franchise was rebooted with a new canon. The old EU still exists, and Legends material is still being produced and released. It's just not nearly as often as canon material. Great vid. You could say that the new canon is the greatest retcon of all.
Wish it were so. If Legends were still produced, if they were treated as a separate timeline, not as many people would be upset. There were still some works planned, some unfinished stories, some authors willing to continue. But it was scrapped, striped of relevancy, people were told that those stories they followed for so many years, keeping the franchise allive, are meaningless now. Old EU fans wouldn't mind if Legends were continued, but their universe was ended and there is little hope for new content. (The new books are largely inconsequencial and the Marvel comics have still to come close to Dark Horse. And are in continuity for which they might not care.) The only thing going is the SWTOR mmo which still produces story expansions. (Though they are free to do whatever now when they practicaly have no continuity to adhere to.)
@@jankrizkovsky9446 A reboot's a reboot. Has Lucasfilm actually come out and said that it's meaningless? It makes no difference to Lucasfilm that it doesn't fit in the new EU timeline. I'm a fan of KOTOR and Republic Commando, and truth be told, I don't care if it's canon or not. I can still play those games, and I can still read any book or comic I want. And I'm not even going to pretend that I've even touched 1% of the Legends content that's been made since the 80's. I know I'll never have enough time to go through it, even if I want to. I know a lot of it was pure shit too, and a lot of it contradicted with each other. But it doesn't matter to me. I like what I like. It's up to you whether or not it's meaningless. You can still buy these books, comics, games, or whatever and enjoy them all the same. The old EU was never "canon" in the same sense that the movies were anyway. It came in grades. The movies were A-canon, TV shows were B-canon, novels were C-canon, and so on. George Lucas was involved with some of it, and he wasn't involved at all in the vast majority of it. The EU was basically just a playground for other writers who wanted to write Star Wars stuff. And this Legends timeline/graded-canon wasn't even created until writers started referencing other EU books and comics, and tying their works to other writer's works. I assume you missed my last comment before you replied. I can name multiple examples of Legends content still being made and released, other than SWTOR. Off the top of my head, The Clone Wars animated series - which is both Legends and canon - is continuing; Star Wars: Galaxy of Heroes features both canon and Legends characters and settings, there was a Legends comic that was released quite recently, and Star Wars: Armada features canon and Legends content. So that's three things I can think of that are Legends and canon, and two things that are purely Legends. It's not the first time sequels and such were scrapped. I remember back in 2005 or around then, when heaps of Star Wars content was scrapped before release because LucasArts got a new President and the company itself was given a sort of "reboot", which meant a lot of staff was laid off, and projects were cancelled. It's not that big of a deal. There's no need to be so melancholic about it.
Sorry for that little rant. Got carried away a little. Fair points. I forgot about Armada but it is a board game, not story. (Or is there? Might be some scenario.) I don't count that. Galaxy of Heroes has characters, ok, does it have story for them? If they are just "action figures" I don't count that. That Marvel comic, I forgot about that too, but it was continuation of the old series from before the EU was properly established. Most of it is retconned and don't influence the continuity that much. It is would be S-canon in old EU. (Secondary canon. Lowest form before noncanon.) It's more anniversary celebration than anything else. Nice, but not 'that' relevant to continuity, might as well be in separate universe. It barely counts. TCW has little to do with Legends. I love it. Am glad that it has continuity to reside in that is made with TCW in mind. But it should be discounted from Legends' continuity. Inclusion of TCW breaks the Legends' continuity apart. In relation to the rest of the EU it's basically it's own universe. And now that's true. It shouldn't count and the next series will certainly not. OK. Some bits here and there are. But apart from SWTOR (If that is to be counted as it is free to do anything now because Legends are not separate, alternate continuity but neglected altogether.) no new story, book, comic, game that would be C-canon. Just here and there some BS action figure, ship model for Armada or character for mobile game and one gimmicky Homage to old Marvel run. (Also Armada had to use the Legends as new canon was not developed then, now it's mostly new ships.)
Yeh, say what you will about the quality of TCW (personally I really enjoy it), but it was definitely created with zero care for the continuity at the time, and as a result retconned much of the story work of the clone wars multimedia project which, in my opinion, is the most consistently high quality era for legends works
Honestly clone wars its at His best when its trying to be its own thing and not trying to be in the same continuity of the films. I mean when was a kid i watched the x-men animated series as well as the film, but i never was like "oh yeah this are THE SAME characters so they are both conected" and More like "yeah they are both good but they are not the same thing". I hope kids are More smarter than Most adults nowdays and they can see the movies and the TV shows as their own proyect insted as one big entidy like most fanboys think it Is. Even Dave filloni admited that he never wanted to fix the movies he just wanted to tell their own at stories with what he had. And its ironic because everytime filloni makes a show everybody hates like rebels, resistence, even friggin forces of destiny (yeah he did that and he was very proud of it) everyones shit on Disney but they never shit on him.
Those mostly aren't the same people though. Those saying they always loved them were kids then and speak truth. They still recognise and admit the flaws. (Unlike ST fans.) Those 'everyone' that hated them grew up with the OT and I would say were rightly to.
*Commenting on HelloGreedo’s video until he hearts my comment day:* 65 Disney “cleaning the slate” and decanonising and making “Legends” shouldn’t be thought of “Oh they’re taking away so many good ideas!” It should be thought of actually a filter taking out the crappy and total wack EU stuff and VERY slowly putting in the good concepts and ideas into canon. Let’s hope they do Old Republic and those awesome characters right.
Exactly how I feel about Disney's actions regarding the EU! So far, I think they've done a great job! We may never have got Thrawn on screen otherwise!
This is the healthiest way to approach things. I actually prefer the title "Legends"; you can play with details when it's treated as a mythology. Some things happened, some things were just said around a fire one night and got out.
Can we all get to a point where we can agree that star wars has now become modern mythology, and just like Marvel or DC cómic books theres no such thing as true canon or not canon, its all about re interpretations of the same matter all started because a film student wanted to do His own low budget fan film about space wizards, samurais and cowboy rescuing princesses and defeating evil space nazi empires that was orinally going to be a Flash Gordon adaptation? Its all star wars, even if its called canon or not theres millón of ways or interpretations you can take this franchise, its not about what this story should be its all about what this story says about you.
motor4X4kombat I think you’re totally right, but at the same time I think that what’s being said here is that fans need to recognize they do not have ownership over Star Wars. You of course can have your own interpretations about each work, but don’t be too angry when Star Wars doesn’t follow the story that YOU wanted specifically because in the end Lucasfilm get to do whatever they want and millions of other people are probably enjoying those same stories!
@@tegosauras99 same with the example that i did with lucas when he Was doing the first star wars film, he wasn't doing it because there was a huge fanbase behind His back at the time, he do it because he wanted to do it as an artist he didn't own anything to anybody that he haden't meet yet
its not purely semantics of whats labeled canon and legends. The thing that people are upset about is that certain characters and stories will never be continued or come back ever again. Some of people's favorite character wont have their stories have a conclusion or even expanded on, they're lost in the ether. You can try to pull the "well they might come back" line, but a lot of people know deep down most characters and events that happened they wont get to see go on and are stuck in a limbo.
I have a theoretical retcon. I believe Leia was never supposed to be Luke's sister. They rather wanted a love triangle with Luke, Han and Leia. This to me is obvious in the way she and Luke talk to each other, comfort each other and even kiss twice. Luke clearly is romantically interested in her and has a rival in Han. Even the characterization is typical for a love triangle. One the one hand you have a experienced, daring and reckless rogue and on the other hand you have a quiet, careful and insecure newby. I know that nothing like this is confirmed but to me it is just too obvious to miss.
I agree. There is strong evidence for this in Splinter of the Mind's Eye (the original planned sequel to ANH), where Luke and Leia ALMOST have an intimate night together. It was at the very least a possible fallback plan in case Harrison Ford bailed before the original trilogy was finished (Ford didn't want to stick around for subsequent Star Wars films and argued that Han should be killed off instead).
not theoretical. its a fact now that Lucas was planning to have a sequel trilogy where Luke’s sister shows up. it wasn’t supposed to be Leia but they made the change because Lucas decided he didn’t want to make another trilogy at the time.
@@zbrown02 Yep. IIRC Luke's sister was going to be this pirate queen who was hiding out in the Outer Rim, and Luke was going to abandon his friends in the hypothetical 1980's version of Episode VII to go look for her.
To be fair though, it's not too uncommon for separated siblings that are unaware of being related to develop feelings for each other. Given the situation, it's quite realistic that things happened the way they did. I never once felt that Leia actually thought about Luke romantically, most of the time she was using him to make Han jealous.
I'm glad they got rid of the old EU, don't get me wrong there were some great stories in there.But there was no way they could juggle it with new stuff without creating more and more retcons. Also half of it was just stupid
Regarding the Mando uproar. I was gonna say perhaps there's now a 4th level to the fandaorians rage? Given how Sabine was depicted in Rebels. She wasn't like what came before, hence people hated on her too.
She had too much stuff going on for someone of age 16 to be honest. She looks more like a D&D character than serious one. Expert martial artist, marksman, demolitioner, artist, Mandalorian, daughter of a clan leader, ex bounty hunter, ex scientist... Her coloured hair and armout. Sounds too much fanfic.
Jan Křížkovský Beside the artist stuff, isn’t that Mandalorian 101? Also her hair dye and armor colors was pointed out by her own people. I mean stereotypes much?
@@jankrizkovsky9446 She actually wasn't 16. She's older than Ezra, I believe, and he turned 16 in season 1. She was probably 18 or so by the time she was learning to use the lightsaber in season 3. I do think her backstory is a bit messy, but it's not impossible that she went through all that in 18 or so years.
Weird coincidence that I started getting interested in the Star Wars Original Trilogy changed and edits today, discovered your channel, and then find out that you released a new video
Actually, Obi-Wan said "For over a thousand generations the Jedi Knights were the guardians of peace and justice, in the Old Republic." Which could be interpreted differently for the age of the Old Republic. It's possible that the "version" Palpatine took over had only been in existence for 1000 years, while smaller(less systems included) and differently lawed versions were older than that but still under the "protection of the Jedi". To use an example: The current German government has technically only existed since 1990(after the retreat of Soviet control), yet there was a version of it from 1945-1989(The split Post-Nazi era). While many German cities still celebrate their origins as hundreds of years old. Obi-Wan also said "You're going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view." :)
@@bigkmoviesandgames Schroedinger's Cat is a thought puzzle where essentially you've got a cat in a box with some kind of poison, and until you look in the box the cat exists in an unknown state of dead or alive, often cited with quantum physics and how an atom exists as both a wave and particle until measured. (Hopefully I worded that right, but you get the gist). So Schroedinger's Fett is like both dead and alive depending on your source of information. It was and still is pretty damn funny. :)
I never understood the hate towards the clone wars mandalorians. Making it so that a leader changes their ideology which causes mandalorian rebels/terrorists who believe the old way of life to overthrow the government isn't retconing, its world building
I disagree. It might seem plausible until you learn more about Mandalorians, then it's ridiculous. It's not worldbuilding, just lack of care and respect. It could have been any other planet. Mandalorians were used just because they look cool. If the viewer cares about Mandalorians, he'll be upset, If he doesn't care, why use them in the first place?
@@jankrizkovsky9446 I agree that mandalorians were taken advantage of by them just because they looked cool but I don't think its too crazy to think their culture degenerated over the thousands of years of their existence. Its happening in the real world so its not so crazy to think so
The most hilarious retcons were the ones made by Lucas himself in the prequels. Every single minute detail or throwaway line was adapted to be part of the lore. Obi Wan pulled a random broken drone out of the garbage to help Luke visualize with the force? Well akschually it was always part of the Jedi training, during which blindfolded eight year olds stood shoulder to shoulder while waving dangerous weapons around. Luke is good at tinkering and constructs a new lightsaber because he lost his old one and obviously as the most wanted person in the galaxy he’s not gonna buy one? Well actually every Jedi constructs their own lightsaber in a force ritual. Obi Wan wears robes because he lives in the desert? Well actually that’s his Jedi uniform and every Jedi dressed like that. Yoda is grumpy and among other excuses he says that Luke is “too old” because Obi wan tries to force another student on him? Well obviously that means that Jedi are trained from a very young age. Bossy dislikes Chewbakka? Well obviously their whole entire species has a strong prejudice against the Wookiees. Jabba is a gangster? Well actually all Huts are gangsters and have been for thousands of years. Hilarious stuff
To be fair. The lightsaber was always a rite of passage. Vader alludes to this in Jedi. 'I see you have constructed a new lightsaber... Your skills are complete.'
Lets not forget the dumb shit from the prequels turning into legit plot points. Remember Yoda saying you shouldnt feel fear because fear is bad and you should feel bad about feeling fear? Turns out jedi basically brainwashed kids to repress their emotions and thats part of what destroyed the order
Back when Disney wasn't THE Onwer, the Legends Fans ARE Bullying Lucas for not following the books, & they Scategoat by blaming Red Letter Media or Hellogreedo after thr buyout.
@@conradojavier7547 Are they pissed because they didn't get their movies where Palpatine has a wardrobe full of clone bodies and Luke is given a girlfriend for some reason?
I love how Greedo took all of his early Blu ray vs theatrical editions videos and slapped them on the tail end of this one. Its a great trip down memory lane.
The Return of the Jedi novel has been reconned as well now with the release of new artwork drawn by Star Wars IDW comics. It shows Leia's handmaden describing Padme to her in great detail.
Fantastic video as always! I'd like to mention that when General Grevious first meets Anakin in ROTS he says he never met him before, as well as when he confronts Obi Wan, where he strongly implies that is their very first fight, even thoug that is retconned in the Clone Wars series. Have a nice one!
Dear fans of the EU /Legends: Not all fans are familiar with the EU. Star Wars is not just for the hardcore fans. It's also for the devoted fans, casual and John Q public who only knows the films. Nobody involved has to stick with what is established in fan fic. Plus sticking strictly to it, hamstrings creativity.
Conrado Javier when in reality it will probably just result in Lucasfilm losing too much money, going bankrupt and shutting down and unlikely to successfully sell the Star Wars licence due to other companies refusing to work with that cancer fanbase and Star Wars will disappear for good and nobody wins
nonamerequired123 oh shut up disney shill. Star Wars IS for hardcore fans. There are no “devoted fans”. No “casuals” either. If you are a Star Wars fan then you must been born in the late 60s so you are in the right age to be a kid in the 70s to watch the first Star Wars film. Typical Disney shill 😂. Anyone who wasn’t there to see Star Wars in the 70s and never own eu books is a fake fan. Just like you 🤡
After she was screwed like that? I don't wonder. Getting so invested in something... story, the characters, the culture... And George and Filoni are like: 'f@ck you and your contribution.' Her series wasn't even finished.
Are we talking Legends or canon? If Legends than yeah, they contridicted a ton of events. If canon, I honestly can't think of any retcons minus a quick line from Greivous in RotS.
The Clone Wars really confuses me. It just tramples all over a ton of previously established lore, and yet, when I watch clips and interviews with Dave Filoni he says throughout the show he tried to fit in content from the EU and make it work to please the fans; for instance the upcoming season 7 where Dave brought back the planet Anaxes from the EU to pay homage to it. How can you try to pay homage to EU content saying you liked the stories it told while at the same time just crushing a shitload of EU content without a second thought?
As far as I'm concerned the canon is the movies that came out on the big screen and everything else is secondary. If it's in a book or a game, that's supplemental, not essential.
@@bigkmoviesandgames Legends or the EU created this false idea that all those books, comics and games are to Star Wars what the Silmarillion and Unifinished Tales are to Tolkien's Lord of the Rings legendarium and its so not the case and so plainly wrong, its one of the most obnoxious arguments I've had with Legends fanboys who hate the new movies because they aren't the EU and use the fact that Darth Bane, Thrawn and other Legends stuff being reintroduced or retconned into the canon and that George Lucas lifted the planet Couruscant from the first Thrawn trilogy as proof that the EU is canon. That is so naive and desigenous to say the least.
@@Falxifer95 yeah fans are like that sometimes.I can understand being passionate but theres canon and non canon and enjoyment has no bearing on continuity. Some of my favorite star wars media isnt canon but I still enjoy it. Fanboys need to understand that.
Ah... I remember the times when everyone hated George Lucas and now for some reason, they want him to come back and "unfuck" everything Disney has done. This fanbase is so toxic, it's not even funny! I'm okay with some retcons, but it would be nice to appreciate other creative mind's work rather than just completely erase their stories in favor of their own.
Books don’t matter for any of the movies, separate sphere of entertainment. Old Star Wars cannon was ALWAYS subservient to Lucas cannon, they knew this then but didn’t care
Say what you like about legends but it was never canon to begin with according to George “the creator” Lucas himself. At least the new canon is being careful with the stories they are telling to avoid contradictions
@@ArachnidoComics Of course they aren't making any books that take place after the ST because that would spoil everything, but they've been making books that fill in the gaps in between the films since TFA came out, which is fine, but my problem with it is when fanboys use those books to justify the plot holes and inconsistencies in the movies.
Unknown you think the trilogy isnt planned? Of course things change like poe being a main character instead of dying, but we already know that palpatine was planned to be in 9 from the beginning. If the trilogy wasnt planned how would they know palpatine would be in 9? The general outline has been there just as much as the OT.
If you end up doing a part two, let me toss you one: Even Piell initially survived the Clone Wars to star (and perish) in the Coruscant Nights series, which took place in 18 BBY. However the TV series later retconned that, and was killed off during a rescue mission on Lola Sayu in 20 BBY.
The original song was way better, GL didn't like the idea of funk being a music genre in Star Wars and it was scrapped. Also it was John Williams' son who created it.
Obi-Wan was first revealed to be Owen's brother in the screenplay of Return of the Jedi, but did not make the final film. It did however make it into the novelization of the movie.
I think a massive inconsistency (in all sci-fi but especially star wars) is shields on ships, especially in video games. Sometimes, a starfighter can take a few hits before losing shields, sometimes a capital ship's shields immediately drop from 3 hits, and sometimes a corvette becomes invincible.
Inconsistencies in the video games can be usually chalked up to gameplay concessions. Making an X-Wing as fragile as they're portrayed in the films for games like the X-Wing series and Rogue Squadron would make them absurdly difficult (or at least far more difficult than they already are).
The sequel trilogy didn’t ruin the Star Wars timeline. This timeline is more confusing and contradictory than the Forgotten Realms lore in Dungeons & Dragons. It’s been that way since day one. Which is why I find “Fans” like Geeks and Gamers to be hilariously uninformed.
Christopher Justice well to quote Stan lee description about JJ Jameson "he is not supposed to be a guy who thinks what's saying is the truth and owns the big news, he is just an egocentric sensationalist that ruins someones popular carrer to earn attentions in his own media despite his arrogant and bad behavior "... Stan lee must be playing poker with god right now because that was friggin ahead of his time because now we live in the era were nobody gives a shit about the context of trend news they just want to milk the shit out of these stories to get many clicks as they can, speacially *spoiler for Spiderman far from home " at the end of that movie were JJ is depicted as Alex jones lost cousin where he looks like he dosn't care about spider man he just want to create controversial news to earn popularity in his channel... kinda like geeks and gamers and a lot of his close channels that make the content over and over and over again to make new Star Wars look bad
Another interesting tidbit about the Jaster Mereel thing: the original story describes Boba getting his start as a bounty hunter after he murdered his commanding officer in a rural planetary militia. In later Legends stories, this was incorporated by having Boba marry another bounty hunter named Sintas Vel and settle down with her for a few years, until said commanding officer sexually assaulted her (no, really) which led Boba to beat the man to death and caused his marriage to fall apart. After that, he abandoned any hope of a normal life and went back to following his father's footsteps.
VosBane Exactly, all these people who hate on the old stuff but don’t bother reading it turn my gears! It’s fine when people don’t like stuff but don’t go around saying it’s garbage when you didn’t bother reading it.
it’s crazy how much has changed in the last 5 years. boba was confirmed alive, mandos had changes with The Mandalorian and basically everything mentioned no one cares about and Clone Wars is one of the most loved Star Wars medias ever.
This is exactly why I was happy when Disney made the EU into Legends and created a new Canon which is carefully looked after, but can draw inspiration from Legends. I always saw the EU as a kind of Legends status anyway, canon until the point George Lucas decided to do something different. Another benefit for a new canon is that it is much easier to get into for new fans. I'm currently really enjoying the new canon Marvel comics (reading throught Doctor Aphra series atm) and audiobooks (listening to Thrawn: Treason now, previous two were so good!).
@@starwars90001 If they want to yes, and they can because Disney were smart enough to put it under a new banner and continue printing, not just outright get rid of it and pretend it never existed. Pretty good solution that allows fans to still get that content whilst freeing up the canon for thier own content, and of course, they can profit from both!
@@partariothe5th Yeah, it's not like the original-original trilogy which has been banished from existence as far as Lucas is concerned. Legends is still here, it just got repurposed.
Back then, I remember getting confused about when the a wing was first in the rebellion. Was it introduced after the battle of yavin? Or has it been there before? Then they retconned the a wings before the battle of yavin "the spearheads". Its like people has a bad habit of putting the a wing before ANH. Star wars rebels finally established that A wings has always been there but were not avalaible at yavin.
The Great Hyperspace War was the first time the Jedi and Republic encountered the Sith during their attempted invasion of Republic space. By this point the Jedi didn’t know anything about the Sith Empire and the Sith code as we know it didn’t exist. Yet in the novel Crosscurrent, during the flashback sequences which take place during the Great Hyperspace War, the Jedi know all about the Sith code and acted like they had known all about them for years.
Well, it was thousands years ago, knowledge can be lost. And the sith in the films are not the same as those during the great hyperspace war, they are under the rule of the two
John Doe only in part. The Dark Jedi were not nearly as philosophical or organized as the Sith. It didn’t go much deeper than giving up the Jedaii ideal of balance in place of selfish pursuits and power through the dark side so many of the things that made the Sith philosophy didn’t exist yet. Not until they found Sith space and established the Empire. Plus if I remember correctly, they reference the Rule of Two, which didn’t exist yet.
@@DarthVader-qq8ci But the Jedi do seem to know everything about the Sith by the time of the Jedi Civil War. And if memory serves, the only Jedi-Sith conflict between the Hyperspace War and the Jedi Civil War was the Exar Kun War. And Exar Kun's only connection to the Sith Empire was through the Sith ghosts on Yavin 4, so I doubt the Jedi could have learned much about the Sith in that conflict. So I honestly have no idea when the Jedi could have possibly learned all this stuff about the Sith lmao.
John Doe lol well I do know that after TGHW the Jedi knew a lot more about the Sith and began actively seeking out planets where the dark side was prevalent and hunting fallen Jedi, like their involvement on Onderon and quelling the Freedon Nadd Uprising. Plus the Republic occupied Sith space after the war so they could have learned about the Sith philosophy from that as well.
I’m currently watching all of the Star Wars movies with my girlfriend since she’s never seen them before and I am absolutely DREADING watching Return of the Jedi because of that stupid Jedi Rocks scene. I could honestly see it as being so weird and out of place that it leaves a bad impression on her for the rest of the movie
And to this day I met someone who said there was no contradictions in the EU except the Clone Wars one regarding Zahn’s Book, just goes to show people will always look at things through rose tinted glasses.
Literally Ahsoka and Starkiller are changes, they are two character never mention or hinted at to exist in the movies or anything else up unlit bring up in their own works. And their important characters to Vader's development so their both retcons.
I loved the video Freedom great job.👍 A cool retcon for a part 2 video was how the Rebel insignia was made. In canon it was a design of Sabine Wren from Rebels. In the EU it was the family crest of Galen Marek aka Starkiller from The Force Unleashed.
"Whenever anything is said, for whatever reason, there has to be a cut and dry explanation, I guess." Yup... because otherwise you get the reactions that TFA and TLJ got for not giving in-depth explanations about Snoke, Rey's parents, etc.... Edit: I disagree with those reactions on TFA and TLJ, some things should be left up to interpretation imo
@@eliroth9978 indeed, some things do not necessarily need deeper explanations and backstories, to leave it up to interpretation. Same with Han Solo and Boba Fett for example, I always liked them having a somewhat mysterious past, and don't necessarily need any "Star Wars Stories" about them. I don't really mind getting them, as I really enjoyed Solo, but I wouldn't have minded not getting it, and focus on something else in the SW universe~
TFA teases the audience about Rey's backstory, so for Rian Johnson to tell us that they're nobodies and that's that is what you call an unfulfilling explanation. As for Snoke, there's a natural tendency for long-time fans to want to know how the First Order came to be after the end of the Empire at the hand of the Rebellion. When last we saw Luke, Leia, and Han 30 years ago, we just saw them lead the Rebels to victory, and now that group more or less is back to square one. It raises a lot more questions than simply giving a backdrop of an Empire, lead by an Emperor, and a Rebellion. This is why TLJ is (at best) an average movie, but a bad sequel. There's no payoff for the big teases of TFA.
The Force Awakens had Starkiller Base Annihilate The New Republics core worlds, so that's how they were able to take over the galaxy again so quickly. So that was set up for TLJ. As for Rey's parents I just straight up disagree. The payoff is compelling, it just doesn't introduce any new characters or backstory into the mix. Remember, Backstory was never a huge part of the original trilogy, at least as much as most people remember. So long as it has an impact, it doesn't matter that the payoff was done with a twist. Think like ESB with the twist of Luke's father. INH, Anakin was Obi-Wan's best friend and ally while Vader was Obi-Wan's student. It was done to contrast the good and noble side with the greedy and evil side. In ESB, it's revealed that Anakin and Vader were the same person. This completely changes the meaning of Luke's previous backstory as it's revealed that in his quest for power, Anakin fell to the dark side and became Darth Vader. However, this isn't done specifically to shock the viewer, it's done to make Luke's journey more compelling. It presents us with the idea that if Anakin, considered to be "A great pilot, cunning warrior and good friend" could ultimately become Darth Vader, Luke could as well. If it wasn't for the twist, the story wouldn't hit nearly as hard. Rey's backstory might not be doing the same thing, but it has the same intention and I think it does it's done well in execution
@@eliroth9978 But that doesn't explain how the First Order emerged in the first place and how they got as powerful as they did. If your last encounter with Luke, Leia, and Han was how they helped vanquish the Empire, and then 30 years later you see them in a position of rebellion again, you're naturally going to wonder what the heck happened. That's what sequels generally try to answer. I was never particularly curious about all the backstory on Palpatine because the general setup was enough, but TFA just raises so many questions that I felt needed some explanation. JJ left it upon Rian Johnson to explain it, and Rian decided not to explain anything. Oops!
Leia says that she remembers her mother because of feelings and visions. That’s literally what she said. She can’t remember her, the force gives her memories regarding Padmé’s death.
You mean Legends WASN’T perfectly consistent and it got retconned by George Lucas before Disney came into the picture????? That’s not true...that’s impossible!!!!!!!!!!
Almost everything Ben tells Luke in ANH was retconned later. Eg Darth wasn't Luke's father, Ben met Anakin when he was an experienced pilot, they went on an "idealistic crusade" together etc
Great video! I remember when Attack of the Clones came out and my friend and I immediately started talking about good ole Jaster Mereel and what it all meant lol
Thanks, SWE!
Of course you'd be the one to talk about that
I always loved Attack of the Clones! I mean, Portman's abs! How could one speak ill of such a movie? 😅
@@WesMordine she's very pretty
Remember seeing Star Wars and my imagination and life was never the same again for a 7 year old in 1978. Never forget my dear Aunty taking me to see it, miss you love your nephew.
I never heard of that Owen Lars - obi wan brother relationship .
Mind blown.
darth fury I did, I remember thinking about it after seeing Attack of the Clones and I read RoTJ novelization.
I really like that idea. The relationship with Owen and Ben suddenly becomes 1000 times interesting
Makes way more sense than him being Anakin's brother. To be honest, most of these retcons were necessitated by George being an idiot.
It's seems pretty weird to me, he was really rude about Ben in the new hope...
André Dulac he was just trying to keep Luke from becoming his father. Didn’t want him to follow old Ben “on some damn fool adventure”
Hearing that people claimed Lucas didn’t understand or care about Star Wars fans the same way people say Disney doesn’t understand or care about Star Wars fans is hilarious.
“It’s like poetry...it rhymes “
They say that Rian Johnson "hates" Star Wars meanwhile they don't realize that he grew up loving Star Wars.
JM Studios And yet when he talks about it you would think RJ had never seen a Star Wars movie....
@@griffinshearer8265 I never thought that.
John-Patrick Alexander In the behind the scenes features he talks about why he made Luke the way he did. He said that JJ didn’t have a reason why Luke was in exile on the island, and the only thing he could think of was to make Luke have given up. Even though in the OT we see two Jedi who were in exile but hadn’t given up on the Jedi.
@@griffinshearer8265 Why would a hopeful but defeated Luke Skywalker go into exile and ghost himself from his friends when he has the luxury of the First Order not wiping out the New Republic yet?
The blog posts in #14 are hilarious. George literally said that he never saw the out of film material as canon, so those books meant nothing. That’s something that people who complain about the EU not being canon today need to realize: it never was.
Precisely. The Old EU was never taken from us once Disney bought Star Wars. If anything, we were given a version of the EU that *IS* considered canon!
It’s weird because he then goes ahead and has a higher up at Lucasfilm make sure the Plagueis novel doesn’t “reveal too much” meaning he thought it was canon then. He seems to contradict his own beliefs at times and I feel like it just boils down to he didn’t care lol
They new name, "Legends", is perfect.
@@castielffboi Plagueis being Vader's father isn't also Lucas's vision. He originally was going to make Palpatine as Vader's father in Revenge of the Sith and that has been canonized.
Star masterc Where has it been canonized just curious and also I don’t remember there ever being any confirmation that Plagueis was ever Anakins father (he did the whole midichlorian stuff but it was really vague)
I believe that the old STAR WARS Encyclopedia described The Clone Wars as “a series of similar battles”.
I love that line. Regardless of what Lucas saw as the Clone Wars when he had Alec deliver it, it was such a powerful moment of world-building.
@@WesMordine yeah
TCW is great but it actually retconned a LOTS more than just Mandolorians
The Clone Wars could be easily retitled as 'George's big EU retcon' lol
Joe Kerr I personally don’t consider TCW as canon in the Legends continuity
Well, it didn't retcon anything since everything before wasn't really canon :p
@@andredulac4456 That is not true.
André Dulac Yeah it was. George Lucas even had a hand in making sure that the Plagueis novel was written so that it didn’t “reveal too much about him”. Why would he care about revealing too much if it wasn’t canon? Dave had basically all of the say in TCW and George just kinda went with it
Didn't George say in an interview that he doesn't care about the EU because those are not his stories?
Yeah he never even touched them😂
@@Scoot694 well he had some influence and kinda had some pointers. But he didnt outright write anything
@@Scoot694 Wrong. George Lucas was directly involved in the Multimedia projects like Shadows of the Empire and the Force Unleashed.
+Cun Xu He never said he didn't care and he was involved in a few major projects but his general policy was "Star Wars in a universe let people make what they want".
He took the credit for everything he liked.
I also recall that Padme Amidala was originally named "Lady Arcadia" Skywalker.
They kept the vowels...
Why was Padme never mentioned in any of the others passed the Sith.
@@Steeler69er cause the named the character was on The Phantom Menace (1999) and the OT was Made in 1977 to 1983. Luke and Leia's mom had no name when those movies ware made
And this is one reason why the story group exists when Lucasfilm rebooted the EU.
I don't know nor think this is the reason: i think mostly it was because they wanted to tell stories that worked for this generation of audiences (and not just addressed to a specific demographics of young adults comic readers and novel readers), and they didn't want to explain everything that happened in legends that affects the continuity of our main characters (like the death of Chewbacca) nor make adaptations of books, Star Wars movies were never like that and shouldn't (imo).
But, this is the reason why i don't mind that they did reboot the EU. I read all the classic Marvel comics, and they contradict everything with Dark Horse era of comics. I never took continuity seriously, some of my favourite SW stories doesn't affect the overall continuity anyways.
I love you and your periodic change of profile pics
I dunno, despite it's existence, I somehow still am able to find inconstancies.
But Luke almost killed Ben in his sleep, wtf happened for the last 32/34 years between ROTJ and TFA/TLJ?
Epic fail by the story group.
94.7% of fans vote for TheLastJedi to be retconed!!!
I’m so glad you got to talk about things like the Russaan Reformations. My favorite parts of Star Wars is the large history
Moral to the story:
Don’t have a conniption if Rise of Skywalker does any retconning to any part of the SW timeline.
It’s been done since practically 1978.
Other moral. Don't hate on legends for being a little inconsistent and claim the new canon is perfect when it's about to have the biggest retcon ever with palpatine.
I'm okay with the force memory thing. Anakin could see the future. Why couldn't Leia see the past? That was always my opinion.
They doubled down on that concept in Rebels with the World Between Worlds. The Past, Present, and Future are all simultaneously happening and Force Users can sometimes get a glimpse of the past or present through the Force, sort of like a small window into a larger world. Its weird but it’s a great concept
@@Denzel_Greene Oh man, that was a great episode. Welp, guess I gonna rewatch it again.
NET Alliance I always thought Leia was talking about her adopted mother. I mean she has no reason to believe that she is Luke’s brother at that point
Sometimes people remember weird things from when they were practically babies. I remember a dream I had when I was like 2. Leia having memory is not that weird, especially if amplified by the force.
That said, I do kinda like the description in the new novelization...
Because it makes no sense that Leia could remember Padme but Luke cannot (and he has the force too).
Losing Jub nub is a shame but its not as bad as that new song in Jabba’s palace
When I started reading the EU in 2000, I went into it knowing all of the lore was not canon and could/would be changed and disregarded by the films.
When Disney labeled the EU as Legends, I understood why. They did not and should not want to be beholden to what came before in their new films.
In Star Wars, much like in Star Trek, only the films and official TV shows are canon.
That's not true, all media post 2014 is canon this includes the novels, comics, videogames, tv shows and movies.
@@and8091 yep
@@and8091 what videogames came out? I honestly can't remember sorry
@@maestrofeli4259 EA Star Wars battlefront, Jedi Fallen Order
@@msj201 oh yeah, completely forgot about fallen order. Yeah that game adds to the lore. Sw battlefront doesn't tho
The biggest retcon in Star Wars history is ironically one of the biggest twists in cinema: "I'm your father".
From the wookiepedia:
"In Episode IV, Ben Kenobi told Luke Skywalker that his father was betrayed and murdered by a pupil of his, Darth Vader. Episode V reveals Darth Vader to be Luke Skywalker's father."
@Cody Brock It wasn´t planned before. George had no plan of making Darth Vader Lukes father when he made A New Hope. Hence Retcon.
Pretty late to comment this but same for luke and leia not growing up together. Making them siblings creates a plot hole there. Why does luke hrow up as a skywalker. A rewrite where luke never had a last name wouldve helped.
In the ROTS novelization it says Vader has no lungs.
In Shadows of the Empire: Lungs.
EarthHound wow
Rian Johnson will suffer for this outrage
Gray Taylor Kathleen Kennedy shall be drawn and Quartered
@@ChevyChase301 burn the witch!
Answer: stem cells and 23 years.
Darth Vader was originally intended to be the villain for the 77 film only and was not intended to be Luke's father.
Then, because he became so popular, George decided to make him Luke's father and the main villain of ESB too.
Make a part 2 soon!
Then why does his name literally mean father in german
Grilled Sirloin Steak It was the idea of a bad father (Vader) and a good father (Anakin) in several of the earlier drafts of the film. Eventually the two characters ended up becoming one and I guess the name just kinda stuck. Lucky, really lol.
Not to mention the producer or director of Empire (i think) said that lucas claiming he had the story from day 1 it's total BS. not even after the first movie he had the entire thing. He kept making things up as he went, Leia wasn't originally Luke's sister, there was going to be another saga in which Luke would go to find his sister, but while making REVENGE Of The Jedi (that was a change as well) Lucas pretty much said "eeh screw it, i'm done with this so Leia is the sister so i don't have to make another movie to explain anything"
It was hinted in 3 scenes that Vader was Lukes father in the first movie. So at least they made the decision before they shot the first movie. Maybe those clues were a late change to the script.
@@grilledsirloinsteak172
Could very well be a coincidence. You can make the case that Vader is just Invader with the first two letter cut off (which would make sense since the Empire were invaders).
"A lot of people don't like The Clone Wars"
Yes. We call them heretics.
No we call them people with different opinions.
@@starwars90001 It was a joke chill
@@starwars90001 PURGE THE HERETIC, FOR THE EMPEROR! AAAAAAAAAAGH!
@@SarcyBoi41 Wait burn them brother.
KOTE !!!
Another retcon regarding the Death Star's plans:
In X-Wing, the plans were intercepted by a Rebel listening post. In Dark Forces, it was Kyle Katarn who stole these.
The retcon explains that only parts of the plans were received both times.
The A-Wing retcon:
One source (I don't know which one) stated that the A-Wing was introduced after Yavin. But X-Wing shows the A-Wing in service before Yavin. That retcon explains that the A-Wing seen in X-Wing was a predecessor model called the R-22 Spearhead.
It looks like a plothole covered by some improvised, made-up information. I feel like that with every inconsistency or plothole in SW.
I also dislike the Jedi rocks scene.
If someone told me the worst scene of all star wars Is that fucking scene, not i don't like sand, not jar jar steaping shit, not space leia, not cg tarkin, not han getting His second name, not the endless galery of whatthefuckery from the holyday special , Is that god damm dance Sequence.... Don't even try to change my mind.
Lol does anyone actually like that shit?
The only reason why I don’t like watching Return of the Jedi with others. I either skip it or go to the bathroom until it’s over
motor4X4kombat fine, but Canto Bight is a close second for me.
I can only stand watching the original VHS copy of ROTJ for that reason
I remember the mando controversy caused by The Clone Wars season 2. I really liked Karen Travis’s books. I didn’t know how I felt about the changes clone wars made at first, but I eventually just looked over at my EU collection and said no point reading this shit anymore and just went with the show and I enjoyed it. Rebels depiction of Mandos brought them back a lot closer to Travis’s stuff though.
Dikut
I wish there were more videos like this, it’s always interesting to see earlier ideas of how the Star Wars universe may have been.
My favorite has always been how different the clone wars were.
I like these anti toxic fandom series. Subtle, like: " i am just stating some facts, nothing against you in particular, not even mentioning you"
We should blame them for Scaring of New Fans with their Give Us Legends Campaign.
If only Hello Greedo's videos contained facts...
@@conradojavier7547 Really? A harmless group of passionate fans are "scaring off new fans"
Fuck off dude
Vader being Luke's father was a retcon. So was Leia being Luke's sister. Why is this always forgotten?
Best freakin retcons of ALL TIME!
Because some revisionist history came into play and people always kept repeating it and even though we know, it continues to be ignored
Because It's not a retcon, it was never established that Vader wasn't Luke father.
It was establsihed. In a movie called Star Wars. It came out in 1977. "Vader betrayed and murdeed your father." Full stop. The retcon is that obi-wan lied. When he originally was not intended to.
Except that nobody thought it looked like Obi-wan was hiding something until *after* Empire and Jedi. In truth, he was just hesitant to tell a 19 year old kid tht his father was murdered.
I was glad when Legends got retconned because I didn't have any friends who were into Legends when I was a kid and I felt overwhelmed, not knowing where to start in the mountain of stories (many of which weren't the best).
I love the new canon, but I have recently gotten around to reading the old Thrawn trilogy and I am currently in the middle of Spectre of the Past. I feel like both Canon and Legends have thier merits, and there are things I prefer and dislike in both. One doesn't necessarily discredit the other, much the same way Marvel Comics and the MCU can coexist with the same characters.
At least both you can see the merits both legends and canon for being Star Wars and don't needless shit on one or the another for not being "Real Star Wars."
I absolutely agree
Same here. I am also like that with the Harry Potter series. Growing up I hardly had no friends who were into that.
You have spoken wisely. I congratulate you (zero sarcasm)
So you're glad that 30+ years of canon got retconned in exchange for pointless filler, or poorly written nostalgia rehashing because you didn't fit ? That's an embarassingly stupid excuse, I'm sorry...
I wouldn't even say the EU was "scrapped" per se. The franchise was rebooted with a new canon. The old EU still exists, and Legends material is still being produced and released. It's just not nearly as often as canon material. Great vid.
You could say that the new canon is the greatest retcon of all.
Legends stopped its production years ago, around 2014. Now they just re-released them in a bundle/collection.
Wish it were so. If Legends were still produced, if they were treated as a separate timeline, not as many people would be upset. There were still some works planned, some unfinished stories, some authors willing to continue. But it was scrapped, striped of relevancy, people were told that those stories they followed for so many years, keeping the franchise allive, are meaningless now.
Old EU fans wouldn't mind if Legends were continued, but their universe was ended and there is little hope for new content. (The new books are largely inconsequencial and the Marvel comics have still to come close to Dark Horse. And are in continuity for which they might not care.) The only thing going is the SWTOR mmo which still produces story expansions. (Though they are free to do whatever now when they practicaly have no continuity to adhere to.)
@@jankrizkovsky9446 A reboot's a reboot. Has Lucasfilm actually come out and said that it's meaningless? It makes no difference to Lucasfilm that it doesn't fit in the new EU timeline. I'm a fan of KOTOR and Republic Commando, and truth be told, I don't care if it's canon or not. I can still play those games, and I can still read any book or comic I want.
And I'm not even going to pretend that I've even touched 1% of the Legends content that's been made since the 80's. I know I'll never have enough time to go through it, even if I want to.
I know a lot of it was pure shit too, and a lot of it contradicted with each other.
But it doesn't matter to me. I like what I like. It's up to you whether or not it's meaningless. You can still buy these books, comics, games, or whatever and enjoy them all the same.
The old EU was never "canon" in the same sense that the movies were anyway. It came in grades. The movies were A-canon, TV shows were B-canon, novels were C-canon, and so on. George Lucas was involved with some of it, and he wasn't involved at all in the vast majority of it. The EU was basically just a playground for other writers who wanted to write Star Wars stuff. And this Legends timeline/graded-canon wasn't even created until writers started referencing other EU books and comics, and tying their works to other writer's works.
I assume you missed my last comment before you replied. I can name multiple examples of Legends content still being made and released, other than SWTOR.
Off the top of my head, The Clone Wars animated series - which is both Legends and canon - is continuing; Star Wars: Galaxy of Heroes features both canon and Legends characters and settings, there was a Legends comic that was released quite recently, and Star Wars: Armada features canon and Legends content. So that's three things I can think of that are Legends and canon, and two things that are purely Legends.
It's not the first time sequels and such were scrapped. I remember back in 2005 or around then, when heaps of Star Wars content was scrapped before release because LucasArts got a new President and the company itself was given a sort of "reboot", which meant a lot of staff was laid off, and projects were cancelled. It's not that big of a deal. There's no need to be so melancholic about it.
Sorry for that little rant. Got carried away a little. Fair points.
I forgot about Armada but it is a board game, not story. (Or is there? Might be some scenario.) I don't count that.
Galaxy of Heroes has characters, ok, does it have story for them? If they are just "action figures" I don't count that.
That Marvel comic, I forgot about that too, but it was continuation of the old series from before the EU was properly established. Most of it is retconned and don't influence the continuity that much. It is would be S-canon in old EU. (Secondary canon. Lowest form before noncanon.) It's more anniversary celebration than anything else. Nice, but not 'that' relevant to continuity, might as well be in separate universe. It barely counts.
TCW has little to do with Legends. I love it. Am glad that it has continuity to reside in that is made with TCW in mind. But it should be discounted from Legends' continuity. Inclusion of TCW breaks the Legends' continuity apart. In relation to the rest of the EU it's basically it's own universe. And now that's true. It shouldn't count and the next series will certainly not.
OK. Some bits here and there are. But apart from SWTOR (If that is to be counted as it is free to do anything now because Legends are not separate, alternate continuity but neglected altogether.) no new story, book, comic, game that would be C-canon. Just here and there some BS action figure, ship model for Armada or character for mobile game and one gimmicky Homage to old Marvel run. (Also Armada had to use the Legends as new canon was not developed then, now it's mostly new ships.)
Yeh, say what you will about the quality of TCW (personally I really enjoy it), but it was definitely created with zero care for the continuity at the time, and as a result retconned much of the story work of the clone wars multimedia project which, in my opinion, is the most consistently high quality era for legends works
Honestly clone wars its at His best when its trying to be its own thing and not trying to be in the same continuity of the films. I mean when was a kid i watched the x-men animated series as well as the film, but i never was like "oh yeah this are THE SAME characters so they are both conected" and More like "yeah they are both good but they are not the same thing". I hope kids are More smarter than Most adults nowdays and they can see the movies and the TV shows as their own proyect insted as one big entidy like most fanboys think it Is. Even Dave filloni admited that he never wanted to fix the movies he just wanted to tell their own at stories with what he had. And its ironic because everytime filloni makes a show everybody hates like rebels, resistence, even friggin forces of destiny (yeah he did that and he was very proud of it) everyones shit on Disney but they never shit on him.
I love that just 2 years later we have a completed boba fett show and a scene showing boba escaping the sarlac pit. Time is a wonderful thing.
Holy cow. I love this video.
My favorite Star Wars channel comenting my other favorite Star Wars channel. That's cool :)
Ah yes remember when everyone hated the prequels and now everyone swears they've always loved them? I love the Fandom
Same thing gonna happen with the New Trilogy once the next/future trilogy comes out. The cycle repeat.
@@zeroskaterz92 It's like poetry
it rhymes
Those mostly aren't the same people though. Those saying they always loved them were kids then and speak truth. They still recognise and admit the flaws. (Unlike ST fans.)
Those 'everyone' that hated them grew up with the OT and I would say were rightly to.
@@jankrizkovsky9446 no
*Commenting on HelloGreedo’s video until he hearts my comment day:* 65
Disney “cleaning the slate” and decanonising and making “Legends” shouldn’t be thought of “Oh they’re taking away so many good ideas!” It should be thought of actually a filter taking out the crappy and total wack EU stuff and VERY slowly putting in the good concepts and ideas into canon. Let’s hope they do Old Republic and those awesome characters right.
Hear hear!
How I’ve always looked at it
Exactly how I feel about Disney's actions regarding the EU! So far, I think they've done a great job! We may never have got Thrawn on screen otherwise!
This is the healthiest way to approach things. I actually prefer the title "Legends"; you can play with details when it's treated as a mythology. Some things happened, some things were just said around a fire one night and got out.
Honestly I disagree with this approach they should act like Legends is an alternative timeline and focus on new ideas for the new cannon
Yes, please make a part 2. I love when you do these types of videos (not retcon per se, just going back and looking at SW history).
Can we all get to a point where we can agree that star wars has now become modern mythology, and just like Marvel or DC cómic books theres no such thing as true canon or not canon, its all about re interpretations of the same matter all started because a film student wanted to do His own low budget fan film about space wizards, samurais and cowboy rescuing princesses and defeating evil space nazi empires that was orinally going to be a Flash Gordon adaptation? Its all star wars, even if its called canon or not theres millón of ways or interpretations you can take this franchise, its not about what this story should be its all about what this story says about you.
motor4X4kombat I think you’re totally right, but at the same time I think that what’s being said here is that fans need to recognize they do not have ownership over Star Wars. You of course can have your own interpretations about each work, but don’t be too angry when Star Wars doesn’t follow the story that YOU wanted specifically because in the end Lucasfilm get to do whatever they want and millions of other people are probably enjoying those same stories!
@@tegosauras99 same with the example that i did with lucas when he Was doing the first star wars film, he wasn't doing it because there was a huge fanbase behind His back at the time, he do it because he wanted to do it as an artist he didn't own anything to anybody that he haden't meet yet
well said both of you.
I will say this, if the Bible doesn't have a strong canon what makes people think Star Wars will.
its not purely semantics of whats labeled canon and legends. The thing that people are upset about is that certain characters and stories will never be continued or come back ever again. Some of people's favorite character wont have their stories have a conclusion or even expanded on, they're lost in the ether. You can try to pull the "well they might come back" line, but a lot of people know deep down most characters and events that happened they wont get to see go on and are stuck in a limbo.
“Is Boba Fett dead in the new canon?”
This didn’t hold up well.
I have a theoretical retcon.
I believe Leia was never supposed to be Luke's sister. They rather wanted a love triangle with Luke, Han and Leia. This to me is obvious in the way she and Luke talk to each other, comfort each other and even kiss twice. Luke clearly is romantically interested in her and has a rival in Han. Even the characterization is typical for a love triangle. One the one hand you have a experienced, daring and reckless rogue and on the other hand you have a quiet, careful and insecure newby.
I know that nothing like this is confirmed but to me it is just too obvious to miss.
I agree. There is strong evidence for this in Splinter of the Mind's Eye (the original planned sequel to ANH), where Luke and Leia ALMOST have an intimate night together. It was at the very least a possible fallback plan in case Harrison Ford bailed before the original trilogy was finished (Ford didn't want to stick around for subsequent Star Wars films and argued that Han should be killed off instead).
not theoretical. its a fact now that Lucas was planning to have a sequel trilogy where Luke’s sister shows up. it wasn’t supposed to be Leia but they made the change because Lucas decided he didn’t want to make another trilogy at the time.
@@zbrown02
Yep. IIRC Luke's sister was going to be this pirate queen who was hiding out in the Outer Rim, and Luke was going to abandon his friends in the hypothetical 1980's version of Episode VII to go look for her.
To be fair though, it's not too uncommon for separated siblings that are unaware of being related to develop feelings for each other. Given the situation, it's quite realistic that things happened the way they did. I never once felt that Leia actually thought about Luke romantically, most of the time she was using him to make Han jealous.
@@sentrysapper45 I'm glad that Disney finally fulfilled his wish take off on solo so we can never have to play him again.
And now the retcon has been retconned, and Boba and Jango are both Mandalorians once again.
I'm glad they got rid of the old EU, don't get me wrong there were some great stories in there.But there was no way they could juggle it with new stuff without creating more and more retcons.
Also half of it was just stupid
I see that you love Rey Skywalker. Good to know.
Regarding the Mando uproar. I was gonna say perhaps there's now a 4th level to the fandaorians rage? Given how Sabine was depicted in Rebels. She wasn't like what came before, hence people hated on her too.
Even though Rebels acknowledge she was different from her kin? I mean stereotypes much?
@@elijahwatson3474 Yeah it does seem to be strange upon learning about the Mando changes. Oh well. Can't really do anything about it :/
She had too much stuff going on for someone of age 16 to be honest. She looks more like a D&D character than serious one. Expert martial artist, marksman, demolitioner, artist, Mandalorian, daughter of a clan leader, ex bounty hunter, ex scientist... Her coloured hair and armout.
Sounds too much fanfic.
Jan Křížkovský Beside the artist stuff, isn’t that Mandalorian 101? Also her hair dye and armor colors was pointed out by her own people. I mean stereotypes much?
@@jankrizkovsky9446 She actually wasn't 16. She's older than Ezra, I believe, and he turned 16 in season 1. She was probably 18 or so by the time she was learning to use the lightsaber in season 3. I do think her backstory is a bit messy, but it's not impossible that she went through all that in 18 or so years.
If there are any further retcons, Hello Greedo will have to retcon his video about STAR WARS retcons.
hmmm it's like poetry...
Weird coincidence that I started getting interested in the Star Wars Original Trilogy changed and edits today, discovered your channel, and then find out that you released a new video
Actually, Obi-Wan said "For over a thousand generations the Jedi Knights were the guardians of peace and justice, in the Old Republic." Which could be interpreted differently for the age of the Old Republic. It's possible that the "version" Palpatine took over had only been in existence for 1000 years, while smaller(less systems included) and differently lawed versions were older than that but still under the "protection of the Jedi".
To use an example: The current German government has technically only existed since 1990(after the retreat of Soviet control), yet there was a version of it from 1945-1989(The split Post-Nazi era). While many German cities still celebrate their origins as hundreds of years old.
Obi-Wan also said "You're going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view." :)
If u ask me, the EU was never “officially” canon. Lucas always just treated it as fan-fiction.
Yes finally. Thank you. Someone understood.
The movies and shows were always going to take priority, that was kind of an unspoken rule since the very beggining.
Adore Splinter of the Minds Eye. I remember reading it when it first came out and being beyond excited about it all.
"Schroedinger's Fett" tickles every part of my inner nerd, and I laughed way more than I'm proud to admit!
Why is that
@@bigkmoviesandgames Schroedinger's Cat is a thought puzzle where essentially you've got a cat in a box with some kind of poison, and until you look in the box the cat exists in an unknown state of dead or alive, often cited with quantum physics and how an atom exists as both a wave and particle until measured. (Hopefully I worded that right, but you get the gist). So Schroedinger's Fett is like both dead and alive depending on your source of information. It was and still is pretty damn funny. :)
@@chrispy1398 oh yeah that is very funny so I'm guessing the sarlacc Pit is the box in this scenario.
Don't forget Captain Rex is now that old grey bearded rebel in the Battle of Endor.
Don't say that to the Legends Fans, they want Nik Sant back.
Fantastic stuff...I agree, that change in the ROTJ book about Leia remembering or deciding to remember her mother is a great retcon.
I never understood the hate towards the clone wars mandalorians. Making it so that a leader changes their ideology which causes mandalorian rebels/terrorists who believe the old way of life to overthrow the government isn't retconing, its world building
I disagree. It might seem plausible until you learn more about Mandalorians, then it's ridiculous. It's not worldbuilding, just lack of care and respect.
It could have been any other planet. Mandalorians were used just because they look cool. If the viewer cares about Mandalorians, he'll be upset, If he doesn't care, why use them in the first place?
@@jankrizkovsky9446 I agree that mandalorians were taken advantage of by them just because they looked cool but I don't think its too crazy to think their culture degenerated over the thousands of years of their existence. Its happening in the real world so its not so crazy to think so
@@aidanweber4017 plus with the tales of the jedi comics and kotor showing ancient mandalorian warriors it fits together nicely
The most hilarious retcons were the ones made by Lucas himself in the prequels. Every single minute detail or throwaway line was adapted to be part of the lore. Obi Wan pulled a random broken drone out of the garbage to help Luke visualize with the force? Well akschually it was always part of the Jedi training, during which blindfolded eight year olds stood shoulder to shoulder while waving dangerous weapons around. Luke is good at tinkering and constructs a new lightsaber because he lost his old one and obviously as the most wanted person in the galaxy he’s not gonna buy one? Well actually every Jedi constructs their own lightsaber in a force ritual. Obi Wan wears robes because he lives in the desert? Well actually that’s his Jedi uniform and every Jedi dressed like that. Yoda is grumpy and among other excuses he says that Luke is “too old” because Obi wan tries to force another student on him? Well obviously that means that Jedi are trained from a very young age. Bossy dislikes Chewbakka? Well obviously their whole entire species has a strong prejudice against the Wookiees. Jabba is a gangster? Well actually all Huts are gangsters and have been for thousands of years. Hilarious stuff
The biggest retcon of them all: Vader is Luke's father. "He died from a point of view".
To be fair. The lightsaber was always a rite of passage. Vader alludes to this in Jedi. 'I see you have constructed a new lightsaber... Your skills are complete.'
cry me a fucking river lol
@@davidv4018 you make an excellent point but as they say, "Its History"
Lets not forget the dumb shit from the prequels turning into legit plot points. Remember Yoda saying you shouldnt feel fear because fear is bad and you should feel bad about feeling fear? Turns out jedi basically brainwashed kids to repress their emotions and thats part of what destroyed the order
Forever going to link this video to those salty "fans" that like to proclaim Lucas adhered to and adored the Legends EU while it was around.
Back when Disney wasn't THE Onwer, the Legends Fans ARE Bullying Lucas for not following the books, & they Scategoat by blaming Red Letter Media or Hellogreedo after thr buyout.
there's never been any "good old days".
@@conradojavier7547 Are they pissed because they didn't get their movies where Palpatine has a wardrobe full of clone bodies and Luke is given a girlfriend for some reason?
I love how Greedo took all of his early Blu ray vs theatrical editions videos and slapped them on the tail end of this one. Its a great trip down memory lane.
The Return of the Jedi novel has been reconned as well now with the release of new artwork drawn by Star Wars IDW comics.
It shows Leia's handmaden describing Padme to her in great detail.
Fantastic video as always! I'd like to mention that when General Grevious first meets Anakin in ROTS he says he never met him before, as well as when he confronts Obi Wan, where he strongly implies that is their very first fight, even thoug that is retconned in the Clone Wars series. Have a nice one!
Watching Fanboys lose it and try to claim Ownership over things they love never ceases to be Hilarious.
The Stereotypical Evil Mastermind for me it’s just tiring.
Fandolorian is the term we are now using!
Haha agreed my friend
At the end of the day if you like whatever it is then who cares if it's "canon" or "legends"?
Some things never change.
So fun ... it was worth staying up till 4am :) Please keep going ... would love a Part 2!
Dear fans of the EU /Legends:
Not all fans are familiar with the EU. Star Wars is not just for the hardcore fans. It's also for the devoted fans, casual and John Q
public who only knows the films. Nobody involved has to stick with what is established in fan fic. Plus sticking strictly to it, hamstrings creativity.
You also have Legends Fans Resort to Boycott Movements & propably want 9 to Flop, for the sake of The EU Reinstated.
Conrado Javier when in reality it will probably just result in Lucasfilm losing too much money, going bankrupt and shutting down and unlikely to successfully sell the Star Wars licence due to other companies refusing to work with that cancer fanbase and Star Wars will disappear for good and nobody wins
The Last Jedi is a fanfic too
Kedovil53 No. Just because you do not like it doesn't make it fanfiction.
nonamerequired123 oh shut up disney shill. Star Wars IS for hardcore fans. There are no “devoted fans”. No “casuals” either. If you are a Star Wars fan then you must been born in the late 60s so you are in the right age to be a kid in the 70s to watch the first Star Wars film. Typical Disney shill 😂. Anyone who wasn’t there to see Star Wars in the 70s and never own eu books is a fake fan. Just like you 🤡
Seeing you upload a video with the word ‘Changes’ in it gives me all of the nostalgia.
Good thing legends was set aside and we have a story group now
Damn Greedo, shroedingers fett? This is easily one of the most interesting videos you've ever made. This fandom wants it all te be perfect, I love it.
But I loved the Karen Traviss Mandalorians 😭
Ait Convarion same! I messaged her about how we needed her back & she said “she’d never go back”
After she was screwed like that? I don't wonder. Getting so invested in something... story, the characters, the culture... And George and Filoni are like: 'f@ck you and your contribution.' Her series wasn't even finished.
They were the true Mando’ade, not this new mockery of a plastic shell.
If you do a part two could it just be about everything TCW changed
Because trust me, there’s more than enough for a video
Are we talking Legends or canon? If Legends than yeah, they contridicted a ton of events. If canon, I honestly can't think of any retcons minus a quick line from Greivous in RotS.
I guess I meant legends, you’re right though as the new canon was/is being written with TCW in mind
@Cameron David what line from Grevious? His exchange with Anakin? Because they never meet in the Clone Wars.
The Clone Wars really confuses me.
It just tramples all over a ton of previously established lore, and yet, when I watch clips and interviews with Dave Filoni he says throughout the show he tried to fit in content from the EU and make it work to please the fans; for instance the upcoming season 7 where Dave brought back the planet Anaxes from the EU to pay homage to it.
How can you try to pay homage to EU content saying you liked the stories it told while at the same time just crushing a shitload of EU content without a second thought?
People who are glad of Disney’s retcons of the EU absolutely love Rey Skywalker.
I love that chill synthwave ending :p
As far as I'm concerned the canon is the movies that came out on the big screen and everything else is secondary. If it's in a book or a game, that's supplemental, not essential.
I agree. Books and games are nice but since the original source material is film I think it should take priority of other forms of media.
@@bigkmoviesandgames Legends or the EU created this false idea that all those books, comics and games are to Star Wars what the Silmarillion and Unifinished Tales are to Tolkien's Lord of the Rings legendarium and its so not the case and so plainly wrong, its one of the most obnoxious arguments I've had with Legends fanboys who hate the new movies because they aren't the EU and use the fact that Darth Bane, Thrawn and other Legends stuff being reintroduced or retconned into the canon and that George Lucas lifted the planet Couruscant from the first Thrawn trilogy as proof that the EU is canon. That is so naive and desigenous to say the least.
@@Falxifer95 yeah fans are like that sometimes.I can understand being passionate but theres canon and non canon and enjoyment has no bearing on continuity. Some of my favorite star wars media isnt canon but I still enjoy it. Fanboys need to understand that.
In that case how do you classify Clone Wars given Maul’s cameo in solo
I always imagined Leia just saw pictures of her mother or some holorecordings, things luke never saw of course
I thought the same but with force´s visions from the past
Ah... I remember the times when everyone hated George Lucas and now for some reason, they want him to come back and "unfuck" everything Disney has done. This fanbase is so toxic, it's not even funny! I'm okay with some retcons, but it would be nice to appreciate other creative mind's work rather than just completely erase their stories in favor of their own.
George Lucas retiring was the best thing that could have happened to his career as a filmmaker.
@@Quirderph Yeah, you're part of the problem.
Books don’t matter for any of the movies, separate sphere of entertainment. Old Star Wars cannon was ALWAYS subservient to Lucas cannon, they knew this then but didn’t care
Say what you like about legends but it was never canon to begin with according to George “the creator” Lucas himself. At least the new canon is being careful with the stories they are telling to avoid contradictions
Yep, the EU was a mess, but how are they being careful now? They didn't even bother planing the new trilogy.
@@Diego-yl2qz At least they aren't making 20 books about the events before and after the ST before TROS is even out.
@@ArachnidoComics Of course they aren't making any books that take place after the ST because that would spoil everything, but they've been making books that fill in the gaps in between the films since TFA came out, which is fine, but my problem with it is when fanboys use those books to justify the plot holes and inconsistencies in the movies.
Unknown you think the trilogy isnt planned? Of course things change like poe being a main character instead of dying, but we already know that palpatine was planned to be in 9 from the beginning. If the trilogy wasnt planned how would they know palpatine would be in 9? The general outline has been there just as much as the OT.
@@Diego-yl2qz JJ had a plan tho...
If you end up doing a part two, let me toss you one:
Even Piell initially survived the Clone Wars to star (and perish) in the Coruscant Nights series, which took place in 18 BBY. However the TV series later retconned that, and was killed off during a rescue mission on Lola Sayu in 20 BBY.
The original song was way better, GL didn't like the idea of funk being a music genre in Star Wars and it was scrapped. Also it was John Williams' son who created it.
Obi-Wan was first revealed to be Owen's brother in the screenplay of Return of the Jedi, but did not make the final film. It did however make it into the novelization of the movie.
Looks like Dave listened to the comment eventually, ha made Jango and Boba Mandalorians
I think a massive inconsistency (in all sci-fi but especially star wars) is shields on ships, especially in video games. Sometimes, a starfighter can take a few hits before losing shields, sometimes a capital ship's shields immediately drop from 3 hits, and sometimes a corvette becomes invincible.
Inconsistencies in the video games can be usually chalked up to gameplay concessions. Making an X-Wing as fragile as they're portrayed in the films for games like the X-Wing series and Rogue Squadron would make them absurdly difficult (or at least far more difficult than they already are).
The sequel trilogy didn’t ruin the Star Wars timeline. This timeline is more confusing and contradictory than the Forgotten Realms lore in Dungeons & Dragons. It’s been that way since day one. Which is why I find “Fans” like Geeks and Gamers to be hilariously uninformed.
Christopher Justice well to quote Stan lee description about JJ Jameson "he is not supposed to be a guy who thinks what's saying is the truth and owns the big news, he is just an egocentric sensationalist that ruins someones popular carrer to earn attentions in his own media despite his arrogant and bad behavior "... Stan lee must be playing poker with god right now because that was friggin ahead of his time because now we live in the era were nobody gives a shit about the context of trend news they just want to milk the shit out of these stories to get many clicks as they can, speacially *spoiler for Spiderman far from home " at the end of that movie were JJ is depicted as Alex jones lost cousin where he looks like he dosn't care about spider man he just want to create controversial news to earn popularity in his channel... kinda like geeks and gamers and a lot of his close channels that make the content over and over and over again to make new Star Wars look bad
Geeks and Gamers ia a Disney shill
Another interesting tidbit about the Jaster Mereel thing: the original story describes Boba getting his start as a bounty hunter after he murdered his commanding officer in a rural planetary militia. In later Legends stories, this was incorporated by having Boba marry another bounty hunter named Sintas Vel and settle down with her for a few years, until said commanding officer sexually assaulted her (no, really) which led Boba to beat the man to death and caused his marriage to fall apart. After that, he abandoned any hope of a normal life and went back to following his father's footsteps.
I cannot be more glad that the new canon was created
That’s probably because you never read the old canon
VosBane Exactly, all these people who hate on the old stuff but don’t bother reading it turn my gears!
It’s fine when people don’t like stuff but don’t go around saying it’s garbage when you didn’t bother reading it.
@@castielffboi or maybe because the old continuity was completely convoluted
@@castielffboi or because, like myself, they did.
There were some pretty awesome things in legends though..
the "fandalorians" part had me dying lol
We have fandom menacers and fandalorians.
“Only a Sith deals in absolutes.” - Obi Wan Kenobi
“Do or do not, there is no try.” - Yoda
Logical fallacy detected
it’s crazy how much has changed in the last 5 years. boba was confirmed alive, mandos had changes with The Mandalorian and basically everything mentioned no one cares about and Clone Wars is one of the most loved Star Wars medias ever.
So the characters on Luke’s screen translating R2s beeps in ESB were not the first instance of proto-arubesh?
It’s almost like deleting the Legends from canon was the best thing Disney could do.
This is exactly why I was happy when Disney made the EU into Legends and created a new Canon which is carefully looked after, but can draw inspiration from Legends. I always saw the EU as a kind of Legends status anyway, canon until the point George Lucas decided to do something different. Another benefit for a new canon is that it is much easier to get into for new fans. I'm currently really enjoying the new canon Marvel comics (reading throught Doctor Aphra series atm) and audiobooks (listening to Thrawn: Treason now, previous two were so good!).
yep.
But shouldn't people go back and read the stuff it came from to know what came before.
@@starwars90001 If they want to yes, and they can because Disney were smart enough to put it under a new banner and continue printing, not just outright get rid of it and pretend it never existed. Pretty good solution that allows fans to still get that content whilst freeing up the canon for thier own content, and of course, they can profit from both!
@@partariothe5th Yeah, it's not like the original-original trilogy which has been banished from existence as far as Lucas is concerned. Legends is still here, it just got repurposed.
Just stumbled on this video in my feed... amusing and appropriate since we just got the first ep of Mando season 2 today 😂
Back then, I remember getting confused about when the a wing was first in the rebellion. Was it introduced after the battle of yavin? Or has it been there before? Then they retconned the a wings before the battle of yavin "the spearheads".
Its like people has a bad habit of putting the a wing before ANH. Star wars rebels finally established that A wings has always been there but were not avalaible at yavin.
I would like to see a part two. I enjoy hearing your perspective and opinions. Thanks for the entertaining content.
The Great Hyperspace War was the first time the Jedi and Republic encountered the Sith during their attempted invasion of Republic space. By this point the Jedi didn’t know anything about the Sith Empire and the Sith code as we know it didn’t exist. Yet in the novel Crosscurrent, during the flashback sequences which take place during the Great Hyperspace War, the Jedi know all about the Sith code and acted like they had known all about them for years.
Could that be related to the fact that the human Sith were descendents of Dark Jedi who were exiled from Tython?
Well, it was thousands years ago, knowledge can be lost. And the sith in the films are not the same as those during the great hyperspace war, they are under the rule of the two
John Doe only in part. The Dark Jedi were not nearly as philosophical or organized as the Sith. It didn’t go much deeper than giving up the Jedaii ideal of balance in place of selfish pursuits and power through the dark side so many of the things that made the Sith philosophy didn’t exist yet. Not until they found Sith space and established the Empire. Plus if I remember correctly, they reference the Rule of Two, which didn’t exist yet.
@@DarthVader-qq8ci But the Jedi do seem to know everything about the Sith by the time of the Jedi Civil War. And if memory serves, the only Jedi-Sith conflict between the Hyperspace War and the Jedi Civil War was the Exar Kun War. And Exar Kun's only connection to the Sith Empire was through the Sith ghosts on Yavin 4, so I doubt the Jedi could have learned much about the Sith in that conflict. So I honestly have no idea when the Jedi could have possibly learned all this stuff about the Sith lmao.
John Doe lol well I do know that after TGHW the Jedi knew a lot more about the Sith and began actively seeking out planets where the dark side was prevalent and hunting fallen Jedi, like their involvement on Onderon and quelling the Freedon Nadd Uprising. Plus the Republic occupied Sith space after the war so they could have learned about the Sith philosophy from that as well.
Loved this. It was like a little mini version of the videos that got me into this channel.
I’m currently watching all of the Star Wars movies with my girlfriend since she’s never seen them before and I am absolutely DREADING watching Return of the Jedi because of that stupid Jedi Rocks scene. I could honestly see it as being so weird and out of place that it leaves a bad impression on her for the rest of the movie
Fast-Forward it or show her the Original 1983 Version if you have it.
You must this is what Lucas intended.
And to this day I met someone who said there was no contradictions in the EU except the Clone Wars one regarding Zahn’s Book, just goes to show people will always look at things through rose tinted glasses.
Literally Ahsoka and Starkiller are changes, they are two character never mention or hinted at to exist in the movies or anything else up unlit bring up in their own works. And their important characters to Vader's development so their both retcons.
Qui Gon too if you think about it.
Expect Ahsoka is used more in Star Wars now, while Starkiller is gone to Obscurity, & Replace by this Dude from the Upcoming Jedi Fallen Order.
I loved the video Freedom great job.👍 A cool retcon for a part 2 video was how the Rebel insignia was made. In canon it was a design of Sabine Wren from Rebels. In the EU it was the family crest of Galen Marek aka Starkiller from The Force Unleashed.
"Whenever anything is said, for whatever reason, there has to be a cut and dry explanation, I guess."
Yup... because otherwise you get the reactions that TFA and TLJ got for not giving in-depth explanations about Snoke, Rey's parents, etc....
Edit: I disagree with those reactions on TFA and TLJ, some things should be left up to interpretation imo
Name two things you learn about the Emporer in the OT besides that he trained Vader and he rules the galaxy.
@@eliroth9978 indeed, some things do not necessarily need deeper explanations and backstories, to leave it up to interpretation. Same with Han Solo and Boba Fett for example, I always liked them having a somewhat mysterious past, and don't necessarily need any "Star Wars Stories" about them. I don't really mind getting them, as I really enjoyed Solo, but I wouldn't have minded not getting it, and focus on something else in the SW universe~
TFA teases the audience about Rey's backstory, so for Rian Johnson to tell us that they're nobodies and that's that is what you call an unfulfilling explanation.
As for Snoke, there's a natural tendency for long-time fans to want to know how the First Order came to be after the end of the Empire at the hand of the Rebellion. When last we saw Luke, Leia, and Han 30 years ago, we just saw them lead the Rebels to victory, and now that group more or less is back to square one. It raises a lot more questions than simply giving a backdrop of an Empire, lead by an Emperor, and a Rebellion.
This is why TLJ is (at best) an average movie, but a bad sequel. There's no payoff for the big teases of TFA.
The Force Awakens had Starkiller Base Annihilate The New Republics core worlds, so that's how they were able to take over the galaxy again so quickly. So that was set up for TLJ.
As for Rey's parents I just straight up disagree. The payoff is compelling, it just doesn't introduce any new characters or backstory into the mix. Remember, Backstory was never a huge part of the original trilogy, at least as much as most people remember. So long as it has an impact, it doesn't matter that the payoff was done with a twist.
Think like ESB with the twist of Luke's father. INH, Anakin was Obi-Wan's best friend and ally while Vader was Obi-Wan's student. It was done to contrast the good and noble side with the greedy and evil side. In ESB, it's revealed that Anakin and Vader were the same person. This completely changes the meaning of Luke's previous backstory as it's revealed that in his quest for power, Anakin fell to the dark side and became Darth Vader. However, this isn't done specifically to shock the viewer, it's done to make Luke's journey more compelling. It presents us with the idea that if Anakin, considered to be "A great pilot, cunning warrior and good friend" could ultimately become Darth Vader, Luke could as well. If it wasn't for the twist, the story wouldn't hit nearly as hard.
Rey's backstory might not be doing the same thing, but it has the same intention and I think it does it's done well in execution
@@eliroth9978 But that doesn't explain how the First Order emerged in the first place and how they got as powerful as they did. If your last encounter with Luke, Leia, and Han was how they helped vanquish the Empire, and then 30 years later you see them in a position of rebellion again, you're naturally going to wonder what the heck happened. That's what sequels generally try to answer.
I was never particularly curious about all the backstory on Palpatine because the general setup was enough, but TFA just raises so many questions that I felt needed some explanation. JJ left it upon Rian Johnson to explain it, and Rian decided not to explain anything. Oops!
Leia says that she remembers her mother because of feelings and visions. That’s literally what she said. She can’t remember her, the force gives her memories regarding Padmé’s death.
Tom Felton no, she just remembered her mother. It’s not the originals fault that the prequels fucked shit up.
God i hate jedi rocks so much. I literally fast forward past it every time i watch return of the jedi. Its do cringe worthy, even for star wars.
Aw are hating on Lucas's version, you have accept that's the artist's vision.
@@starwars90001 No we don't, especially if that vision entails something as ghastly and awful as Jedi Rocks
@@starwars90001 Yeah everyone needs to stop hating on Georges true vision that he keeps changing!
This was entertaining. I would not object to an episode 2
You mean Legends WASN’T perfectly consistent and it got retconned by George Lucas before Disney came into the picture????? That’s not true...that’s impossible!!!!!!!!!!
That Jedi rocks scene apparently cost over a million dollars to make.....
So did Galen Erso or the Geonosians design the Death Star?
Geonosians did. Galen was responsible with ironing out how the power system worked and the super laser.
Joe Kerr Thanks
Funny of watching this in 2020 and now people love the Clone Wars
Didn’t Return of the Jedi always have the Episode VI slapped on the opening crawl?
Yes and empire always said episode 5.
Almost everything Ben tells Luke in ANH was retconned later. Eg Darth wasn't Luke's father, Ben met Anakin when he was an experienced pilot, they went on an "idealistic crusade" together etc