Are Electric Cars Really Good For The Environment? | Why It Matters 4 | Full Episode
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- Опубликовано: 17 окт 2024
- 2040 is Singapore's deadline to phase out internal combustion engines. Right now, only about five per cent of vehicles in Singapore are "green" - hybrid or electric. More incentives will roll out next year to promote the use of electric cars - but are they enough? Are green cars really as environmentally friendly as they made out to be? Is there a better, cleaner alternative to electric vehicles?
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About WHY IT MATTERS: Technology is advancing at an unprecedented rate. It is transforming the world we live in faster than ever before. Our inquisitive host Joshua Lim is back on a mission to sniff out the emerging trends and technologies, to ask the questions you have always wanted to ask, and some you have never even thought about.
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Lol 35k USD Tesla model 3 come SG become 220k. With sub par charging infrastructure. Hard to hit the goal in 2040 when taxes are so high on EVs
yeah for real. SG! Y'all paying way too much for your cars!
the government should lower the tax of electric vehicle to make it more affordable to consumer
They've already put the plan in place to electrify, so, I'm pretty sure the charging infrastructure will be up and running quite quick.
Wah if you can get a brand new Model 3 for 35k USD i think ur a very lucky man, those things go for at least 45k USD after selecting all the options like Long range and Autopilot.
Did you cover the power loss topic during power generation, transmission and charging? How efficient?
There are many videos discussing energy efficiency. Electric cars are the most efficient of the bunch unless the battery gets way too heavy for the task at hand.
Small passenger cars already are cheaper at life cycle bases compared ICE in most places.
Vehicle integrated PV isn't the best option in most situations. When it can be used without adding much extra weight and it can be done inexpensively. It can reduce size and weight of the battery thereby reducing roiling resistance. Solar PV is in less than optimal position on a car therefore producing less power per given area - this can be mitigated by using higher efficiency multijunction cells. For a car to last longer it would be better to avoid unnecessary UV exposure, so in densely populated areas with underground parking it would be not much good.
Slower, liter Solar PV & Battery assisted aero bikes could be a better bet for solar powered vehicle :)
Also it is better to use most fitting vehicle for a task at hand, so it would make sense to share vehicles and rides.
Health benefits of reduced air pollution alone would benefit enough to justify the cost to switch from ICE in densely populated areas.
Very informative. Thanks for sharing
Electric car will help reduce urban heat island effect as it is more energy efficient and emits no exhaust. Exhaust from cars are not only unhealthy, it also traps heat.
I hope we will move to electric car sooner than later.
👍
Several reports have found that hybrid electric vehicles, plug-in hybrids and all-electric cars generate more carbon emissions during their production than current conventional vehicles but still have a lower overall carbon footprint over the full life cycle.
You need to understand how much precious metals are haversted from the earth to make the batteries etc...
@@N16Ken I have read some articles but it is difficult to verify the validity those claims. Regardless, electric car are lighter and do not have gears and thus are more efficient. In a highly dense city, the pollution from ICEV is significant and has impact to UHI and public health. Reduction in traffic pollution and lower heat production will also in turn reduce energy needed for air conditioning.
I think there is opportunity to recycle lithium ion batteries as well.
I am not saying electric vehicles are not beneficial to the present situation we are in. Yes they are surely better... maybe not entirely practical in most cases.
Maybe one day the electric cars can just go into a 'gas station' or rather a battery station and simply swap out a fully charged battery for their drained out one... then maybe it seems more practical.
Anyways i dont know when we can all be driving electric cars... but i do know that unless cost and practicalities prevail, otherwise petrol, diesel & CNG will still be here for a very long time to come.
Lmao. Transport minister so candid when asked about his own car
He was right technically it is more environmentally harmful changing your car . Always better to reuse than recycle !
The best way to go green is to use your existing vehicle for as long as possible. However, the COE scheme prevents that. As a result, perfectly usable cars are being scrapped while more resources are used to make new cars
very insightful. changing something always take time, but we still need to look at long term.
Ironic that bicycles weren't mentioned considering we are environmentally friendly energy when we ride them...
I ride a bicycle for over 90% of my transport here in Arizona even in the summer and we just had our hottest summer on record. However the way bikes are looked at in the U. S. is that NOBODY really used them so it can be a bit hazadous as we are coinsidered a nuisance more that a way to travel
Talking about environmental friendly. What about disposal of the battery? Which is more harmful? Have this been debated?
There is growing market for recycling used batteries for 2nd life applications. Growing market because electric vehicles are still in it's infancy, only commercially available in small numbers about 10 years ago. Emissions from burning fossil fuels since the dawn of the internal combustion engine has not been recycled, this is caused more harm to the environment.
@@alvins.2428 recycling lithium is far more expensive than producing the new battery, so dumping the dead battery is far more toxic.
The only way to get more Singaporeans to buy electric cars is to provide a govt grant to the customers which offsets the cost of the charging for a while, and give them the incentive to curb their carbon footprint. It's ironic that more electric cars would mean more coal and oil being burnt but when transitioned to wind, solar and nuclear energy, the cost to own an electric car and charging it would reduce automatically
Does SG produce nuclear power? Thanks in advance!
@@yengsabio5315 nope
@@sclyze Thanks, eh mate!
At the end of the day it's really about efficiency. We don't run our own generators to power our homes because it's cheaper and more efficient to get your power from the electricity grid where they can also tap on sources of renewable energy.
What are the GHG emissions behind producing so many large batteries? Will they degrade over time?
A lot jet still better than coal, etc. And there is an effort to reduce it
Oil companies don't like this.
They tried to kill the EV many years back. Google it
@@KimKim-hh7jf yes.... Let's kill oil mafia pests now...high time.........
For future generations to breathe clean air we have to do something
All the best from hindustan. Only electric for me 👍
India?
@@arjunsavanur7242 barath.
@@Reddylion
Bharat
@@arjunsavanur7242 barath.
Singapore is Small, thus making it easy to transform diesel transportation to Electric Vehicle.
Am I able to propose an idea to the parliment which might sound crazy yet cool?
Is it able to have tax payers have control of where their tax monies go to? Like if I am paying tax in the future, I would like my money to fund more of this initiative as I am extremely environmentally concerned.
Hahahaha
Haha...fat chance. Plus, taxpayers only have a restricted view of the whole nation's needs. We don't have the full big picture and don't know where money may be more needed, such as healthcare, national security, infrastructure etc etc. That's why you have Parliament where different members champion different causes and propose areas of spending.
You could also say having coe also harms the environment
It does not simply because it limits the amount of cars sold. Cheap cars = USA.
There’s a reason why the Tesla costs 222k SGD but only 35k USD in the US. And it’s cuz of Singapore’s dumb taxes. Nothing to do with Tesla itself
Its coe to limit number of cars on the road
If we price cars cheaper in singapore, then everyone will start buying a car, our roads will become more congested, traffic jams everywhere and not enough space to park. There is a reason why the tax and COE for cars are so expensive, it’s to keep the roads from having less cars.... don’t call it dumb.
Tesla's aim is to switch the world to renewable clean energy which is a good cause. Not just collect more taxes.
So, from 2021, I would assume the cost of owning an EV to come down? $230k quoted based on Tesla. Let’s revisit this in 3 months time on the pricing.
Hydrogen is a dead end. It requires so much (green) energy to make hydrogen from water, that from the energy to needed to generate enough hydrogen for 1km you can drive 2 battery EVs for 1km each...
Been in Uk for Last two Years and Still Starving
Cars are but just a small contributor of carbon emissions in the whole scheme of things. If we're really serious about cutting emissions, we need to look at the bigger contributors like airplanes, cargo ships/tankers, freighters, cargo trucks etc. And also more seriously consider other alternatives like hydrogen, biofuels etc. The environmental drawbacks of rechargeable batteries used in EVs, cost and carbon footprint of manufacture, as well as the cost of disposing them when they're dead is just too "expensive" for the environment in the whole scheme of things. And if the batteries catch fire, boy oh boy.....you're gonna be in deep deep trouble. It's a bigger explosion, the fire is more intense, and a lot more difficult to put out. It's argued that it's easier to just let the battery burn itself out than trying to put out the fire.
Driving into MY how? Can go over but cannot come back because no charging points. LOL!
Exactly, unless Malaysia also does the same, if not it's pointless to own a all electric cars. Also, Will electric cars able to climb the steepest hill in Genting Highlands?
@@marvint480 Go by bus or hire a car in malaysia
EV range is easily more than 400km
@@marvint480 electric vehicles has more torque than your regular family car. It can definitely get the job done easily provided you have enough charge.
@@akupehsluarketatAR You need to consider that battery generates quite a lot of heat, it will reduce the mileage by a lot.
Improvement is crucial. But please don’t say that anything we do as modern people, is “good for the environment “. Except maybe, habitat restoration.
How about the total life cycles of the electric car and the petrol car, including disposing the car and batteries etc? Even though you may reduce greenhouse emissions during using, it doesn't mean greenhouse emissions and other pollution from producing and disposal doesn't matter.
Million mile battery and batteries can be recycled
There is growing market for recycling used batteries for 2nd life applications. Growing market because electric vehicles are still in it's infancy, only commercially available in small numbers about 10 years ago. Emissions from burning fossil fuels since the dawn of the internal combustion engine has not been recycled, this is caused more harm to the environment and is still doing so until we turn this ship around.
Doesn't your home produce more co2 emissions than your vehicle?
PMDs were the green future of Singapore but they messed it up. We should have large car free zones at this point.
Gonna be quite hard to justify rebuilding roads especially those that were made recently. PMD Usage not really them that messed it up but rather the users.
Q: are all electric cars like this? A: Yes. Ha ha ha. Compare that to Wuling Mini EV? But you know it only cost $4000 in China right and why Tesla cost 4 x more in Singapore?
probably because of taxes,
1 of the tax that is being charged is 100% of the market value of the car, then there are CoE and other taxes on top of it.
Only way to buy an electric car is if you live in a landed property. There is not enough charging facilities especially in public car parks. No one is going to buy an electric car if you can't charge it.
I can imagine traditional petrol company like esso etc. losing out when everyone converts to electric as I believe that mall companies like capitalland and fraser have the capital to fully set up ev chargers within the carparks of their malls
That's why MOT's direction is to have the mass majority of it's projected 28,000 chargers located in public carparks. We started late, but it's not difficult for Singapore to get things done since they have already decided.
Wah so many Indian academic in Singapore... thanks to CECA I guess they are smarter than our NUS grad
the answer is very simple...HELL NO because due to the recent CRACKDOWN on electric vehicles, u all can wait long-long
Electric cars are expensive and unpractical. Why would I Want to charge my car for 1h+ when I can just go to patrol station pump and finish everything within 10mins. Electric cars also use more coal/gas station. Solar panels and all renewable energy is not enough if everyone convert to electric car. If I want to go Malaysia how is the electric car going to work for me?
Electric cars such as bluesg states that 1 charge can go 250km but for me only lasted about 120-150km per charge. To convince me to change electric car
1. Must be able to refill as fast as a patrol vehicle.
2. Range must be minimum 600km per charge.
3. Price has to be reasonable to compare to current vehicles.
There are many things that are inaccurate about what you said but there are plenty of resources if you wish to find out more. You may not that find electric vehicles are suitable for you and that's okay. For those that are interested in reducing their carbon footprint or concerned about global warming and their own children's health, they will find an electric vehicle that is suitable for them.
Self charging could be the future technology.
Do you think charging your hp for 1hr+ is inconvenient from yr home or workplace? Or would you go petrol station to pump up your hp?
Hydrogen must be only used to make electricity not to used as car fuel, its not efficient and its dangerous and expensive.
There's more value for hydrogen in industrial applications. Hydrogen produced by excess solar PV capacity can be cheaper than the one made from natural gas. Hydrogen for electricity does not make much sense at current efficiency.
we can be slower compare to others bigger country. we produce CO2 are still lesser compare to Big countries. Main are the public transport and commercial trucks, trailers.
That Tesla 220k SGD is like 160k USD. Y'all paying tooo much out there in SG
It's soon coming to hindustan.
Yeah but China will be competing with its own brands.
Nope biofuel is better
Please phased out all the electric vehicles and all the clean energy vehicles
Please switch back to internal combustion engine vehicles
Good thing he actually did not fly to Japan, it will be so ironic lol.
Why?
Flygscam
But there will still be miatas and corllas form 90s still running people change ev cars per 4 year maximum
Battery-operated cars will NEVER replace gasoline-powered cars. Electric cars get their power from coal, nuclear & natural gas power plants.....not solar panels & windmills.
There are too many downsides to electric cars......1) no infrastructure of charging stations 2) a long time to charge batteries 3) lithium batteries last about 5 years and cost at least
$10,000 to replace 4) lithium batteries catch fire and even water cannot extinguish the fire for days 5) lithium is a rare, costly element mined in countries with unstable governments
such as Afghanistan & Congo, 6) vehicles other than autos can never be powered by batteries.....such as airplanes, locomotives, ships, bulldozers, army tanks, space rockets, etc.
In short, people who promote the Green Energy Fad just don't understand basic science.
Its irony that its electricity not renewable
It is possible to drive on 100% solar electricity from Sunseap. Even with our current grid emissions, it is already better driving an electric vehicle than a petrol/diesel vehicle. As the grid emissions decrease with increased solar deployment, it is only going to get better with an EV but conversely there are no petrol/diesel vehicles that can use renewable energy.
-walking, biking or taking a bus will always be better for the environment than cars (but EVs are better than petrol)
-my opinion on hydrogen: it already loses out to batteries for cars and buses but still can have a future in more trucks, ships and planes (airbus unveiled their plans to have hydrogen planes by 2035 not long ago)
Singapore has a great subway/bus system.
Forget cars.
Sorry, but I don't enjoy sharing a subway and bus with other strangers. I like the privacy of my car.
@@OS253 With Citymapper or Google Maps you can map out, to literally the minute, any route in the city, bus/subway.
It's amazing. No need to own a car.
@@SK-lt1so Travelling from certain locations to certain locations may take 2-3 times longer on public transport. Just recently I use goggle map to calculate a route, public transport takes almost 1hr 30mins with a change of bus in between (total of 2 buses), whereas private transport (or cab/grab/etc) is under 30mins (22-26mins).
I used to travel from East side of SG to the West for school, I had to take a bus to the train station and then a train to school (train travels about 70% of the whole green line), followed by a short walk, total trip almost 1.5 hrs. With a motorcycle, 25mins.
SG's public transport system is good, but I wouldn't call it great and yes I've lived overseas with better and worst system.
@@DragonX2X7 You travel anywhere in Singappore for 25-30 minutes?
I didn't think that was possible...
@@SK-lt1so I don't think you understand what I wrote. I didn't say travel anywhere within Sg in 25-30mins. I just gave 2 different route example.
With the motorcycle route, a short ride will get me to PIE and most of the travel will be done there. After taking the PIE exit, another about 5mins to get to the school. Start location to PIE is less than 5 mins.
2 route destination is Selatar Airport, thus requires 2 bus from my start location. If I were to take a cab/grab/private transport, it will only take 26mins according to Google map.
SG have a good transport system but it doesn't cover everywhere and there are still quite a few routes that would take much longer compared to private transport/cab/grab.
Why rebates for the rich?
Except Ferrari,Mercedes,bmw,Audi and Lamborghini keep enginesalive like v8
The car might GENERATE less carbon emissions but how bad are the emissions to make these fully electric cars? Probably a lot worse than combustion engine vehicles. Just like anything a change needs to happen companies will make a change but not look at the total picture and usually we end up worse for it... Like companies going from plastic straws to paper. To make paper straws it's FAR worse for the environment but the use has low emissions so they all focus on that aspect. I'd bet dollars to donuts that these hybrid / fully electric cars are in a similar situation where to make the parts it's FAR worse but there's no emissions from the car itself so they'll focus on that aspect.
Turn on Subtitles for the first part at 0:00 Lol
I prefer biofuel
Why not just have massive power plants and lay caternary cables over all streets for pantograph vehicles. External power - never recharge.
I would only agree, Tram can pretty much be the most efficient vehicle.
This was only based on the energy sources to propel/move vehicles in an eco friendly way, but what about the manufacturing of such vehicles? It still requires extraction of other raw materials from the earth which cause damage to the earth as well. So ultimately it's still not eco friendly. So I call BS on this.
Victor Williams... yes. Modern technology requires a wide range of artificial materials. The issue you raise is the process of production and selection of which artificial materials are used. This story did not look at any aspect of these issues. Basically, the story was about type of fuel used within the transport sector. Logically, your statement could be ‘Snow White and Seven Dwarfs doesn’t address the extraction of other raw materials... so I call BS on this.’ It has the same relevance.
That said, I actually agree that everybody is concentrating on the fuel and few delve into the trickier subject of materials selection and production. The good news is that the environmental impact of most materials is actually going down (with a few horrible exceptions). Simply put, fossil fuels are on the way out and everything derived from them is being replaced with alternatives that don’t use petrochemicals. Non oil based, biodegradable polymers is the fastest growing segment of the plastic industry. While comparatively small today, they will be the largest category in ten or twenty years.
Recycling of other materials is also escalating dramatically. Large scale manufacturers are finding that recycled material is increasingly more readily available and cheaper. Particularly in the area of metals and plastics.
If we’d started all of this in 1990, we’d be fine... but I’m afraid it’s all thirty years too late.
@@tasmanianbadger All that to say nothing..... For the record, I said what I said simply because videos like this can and is often misinterpreted my the masses or its intentionally created for that purpose. Most people will watch it a think... "oh I need a hybrid or electronic vehicle" , but not realize to to making electric or hybrid vehicles damages the earth just as much or more than driving vehicles with fossil fuel.
Victor Williams. Okay. I get it. You have a comprehension problem. I didn’t ‘say nothing’, you had noticed that it was a story about fuels and not materials and - apparently - because it wasn’t what you wanted it be, it was bullshit. That’s akin to complaining that women’s day magazine doesn’t have enough articles on golfing. The story was about fuels.
In your needlessly rude reply to me, you seem to have missed the rest of my comment to you that did address and acknowledge that materials was a big part of the picture and unfortunately rarely addressed. Being a bit daft, instead of noticing that you were in an exchange with someone who agreed with you, you chose to react snidely.
Do those of us who work, research, and study environmental policy, technology, and science a favour: please refrain from making comments. You make our side look bad.
Sorry folk's but there is no such thing as a "free lunch" everything has its cost even things that are considered enviromentally freindly!
One doesn't make an electric car or an ICE car and then immediately throws it away. The entire life cycle of the car has to be taken into consideration and this is where an electric car will still have a much lower carbon footprint than a comparable ICE vehicle throughout it's life.
About twice as good as a gas car
I dont believe... electric in certain country can be obtain by green way but if the source of electric is from the fossil fuel... then it still cost more harm to environment and the electric will still goes up... electric car has a lot of expensive spare parts compared to existing car... government need to address this as well...
Large gas powered turbine at power plants are a lot more efficient than the small engine of an ICE vehicle and the power plants are running on natural gas which has lower emissions than burning petrol/diesel. Even with our current grid emissions, it is already better driving an electric vehicle than a petrol/diesel vehicle. As the grid emissions decrease with increased solar deployment, it is only going to get better with an EV but conversely there are no petrol/diesel vehicles that can use renewable energy. Electric cars also have much lower maintenance than a comparable ICE vehicle, about 50% lower on average.
@@alvins.2428 the electric car spare parts still a costly point to take into. Yes... you maybe right 'much lower maintenance' but when a part of electronic spoilt it will cost very or veRy much much high when comparing to current car maintenance. It is still needs a lot years for the economic of scale to take into effect. As i mentioned before.. unless the 'pemenrintah'/government willing to forgo the tax (no tax) or tax relief on every parts of electric vehicle... to make it works.... "Pemenrintah' needs to do a lot more... then only will be a 'WIN WIN' situation for everyone.....Another problem with electric car... battery... how to recycle....until now still no solution
i remain hopeful that my next car in 8 years will be fully electric. Hope to see the promised infrastructure, and hopefully the prices go way down
hydrogen car also face similar problem: we need electricity energy to generate hydrogen, and to generate electricity, we still need fossil fuel.
singapore must go nuclear.
Won't EV pose a different set of challenges? Excessive lithium mining, mass disposal of used batteries every about 5 year etc.
If ppl cont to use tissue to chope seats or tables, can forget about this...
Within 5 years all the cars in Singapore will be EV.
u still need to use conventional energy sources to charge the batteries
carbon emission issue required multi sector decision. but theoretically, what govt can do is :
[Step 1] : Tax Policy
- Housing : Energy performance certificates (EPCs)
- Vehicles : CO2 Emission Tax
- reformulated gasoline and diesel
- reduce sales tax for home appliances w/high energy efficiency label
[Step 2] : build energy infrastructure
- green energy powerhouse : VAWT, solat, WTE Plant, biomass, wave, whirlpool, etc
- clean energy economic zone : industrial zone with 100% powered by renewable energy production (green energy powerhouse)
- power grid infrastructure : underground cable system
[Step 3] : EV infrastructure and vehicle
- build DC Charging Station (privatisation licence)
- high road tax and insurance on gas and petrol vehicle to discourage market demand
- SST exemption (50% CBU, 100% CKD) + easy re/financing plan (offered by Govt Bank, Koperasi or dealership)
To get 100% carbon neutral transportation human should start using horses - it is the only silver bullet
What about the excess methane?
@@amanchaudhary742 More ammonia that methane in H/S beside the H/S works great to heat the compost pile for my organic gardening
@@amanchaudhary742 what nature produces it absorbs it also. What human produces it will stay as it is look around you
The trees will convert the carbon dioxide to oxygen. It’s the non biodegradable plastics and CFCs we need to worry about. Not the CO2. Farts contains CO2.
For environmentalist nothing is green
Teslaaaa lol Tesla are good but very expensive
manufacturing of batteries and cars are not really that green to begin with.
Manufacturing of engines and fuel isn’t either though
One doesn't make an electric car or an ICE car and then immediately throws it away. The entire life cycle of the car has to be taken into consideration and this is where an electric car will still have a much lower carbon footprint than a comparable ICE vehicle throughout it's life.
put more bluesg and ppl dont need to buy car, just rent and drive from place to place
Ban cars :) all ride bicycles and public transport
Electrocuted from flashlight batteries? Oh come on! just trying to be funny or..?
Why not standardise the electric charging ports and the electric pump stick nozzle so it fits any electric land vehicles e.g. the charging stations for cars can be used to charge buses, vans and lorries too. From a security point of view, fossil fuels will be here to stay until every last drop have been expanded and extracted since military air, land and sea vehicles use diesel and petrol, thus the petrol stations are here to stay to run the military vehicles in the event of war or defence. Electrical charging stations can be easily cut off or destroyed thus disabling e military vehicles. Secondly, diesel or petrol is liquid thus it is easily portable in jerry cans via another vehicle to refuel hidden military vehicles compared to electricity which is not as portable. Even though we have millions of public and secret weapons of mass destruction to launch at the same time to destroy entire Earth in ten minutes, but being able to easily disable e military vehicles takes the fun out of war games. Please feedback to management.
Beware batam, spore car incoming!!
Green car/vehicle sucks! It takes away the fun of driving and owning a car.
Luckily of many electric charging kiosks are built. This is good reason to continue using petrol
US Tesla, DE Mercedes Benz EQ, CN Nio, Volvo Polestar tug of war v 🤠 gas-guzzler happy on his Apprentice 2020 special heli ride for that Evita photo op
cannot drive civic fd type r liao...
Haze all around ASEAN not helping
High electric car fees can be lowered by tariff and COE reductions. But of course we should not let electric cars take over oil cars. SG is a oil refinery. Why kill the goose that lay the golden eggs?
unless that goose pollutes and will eventually destroy your home
What happens when the world changes to EVs?
Nope Ferrariwill still make synthetic fuel
@@KimKim-hh7jf Cleaner air all over the world, maybe even reverse the effects of climate change/ global warming, hopefully . .
Wait till got nuclear powered car kzao
Get all made in China lah
Just so you know, car is for the small percentage of rich elite in Singapore, including the expats
I disagree on use of electric cars!
SG can only depend on oil being an oil refinery and this contributes to SG revenue. I am happy that SG has few electric cars compared to the gas engine cars.
We should just Wayang a bit about having electric cars so that foreigners think we very advanced. We must defend oil at all cost like we are an oil refinery SG inc
Good for the environment? No. Electric cars are "less bad" than petrol. Just like Sun Chips are less unhealthy compared to regular potato chips.
Less bad is good enough, no?
The difference is actively poisoning it, or being mostly neutral. Kind of a big difference.
EV's are the wrong way to go, hydrogen is the future
Before electric cars take over oil, we should tax as much on petrol and gas engines. This is out of love for our country! Tax electricity by 30 times. This should do the trick
We need COE! We must not let petrol cars go the way of dodo birds
Dependence on oil will make us all go the way of the dodo birds.
@@alvins.2428 That's for future generations to worry about . You won't live to see the day