CF Ryno now you are just describing cross-fit, so naturally a cross-fitter would do better. Setting up a 1RM competition in the big 3 between a new power lifter and a new cross-fitter with the same lifting time, then narutally the power lifter would come out on top, since he has spent 100% of his training time improving the big 3, while the cross-fitter has been working on the big 3 for way less than that. Sure, the crossfitter has a higher 1RM or aMRaP in front-squats, oly lifts and bastardized CF lifts, but he would get crushed in the big 3. Cross-fit is not magic and you can't be better at every sport than athletes doing that sport exclusively. Take a look at the Cross-fit games and the running parts. They suck at that. But they are awesome at handstand walks.....
ProzacPreacher youre missing the point. all these people talk bad about crossfit but wont challenge us at it. obviously an oly lifter is going to be better than us at it and that's why we respect it and don't talk bad about it. obviously a bodybuilder is going to be able to curl more than us that's why we don't talk bad about it. but don't talk trash about crossfit and then back down from actually doing it
I will never ever do a kip pull-up. It's a very inefficient way to work out the lats using momentum to cheat yourself into thinking you are doing work compared to the tried and true basic pull-up.
CrossFit® So perfoming adduction of the upper arm through the shoulder (primary joint used) uses what muscle as the primary mover? That is right kids, your lats! Key words here primary and mover. Not your biceps, or infra supra spinatus, not rhomboid, not trapezius, not your extensors or flexors in your forearms. Nope those are all secondary or stabilizers in the movement.
Jed Schuler Way to miss the point Mr. Anatomy. Crossfit said "Who said it had anything to do with training your lats?" Referring to the kipping/butterfly pullup. Unlike vanity building, Crossfit athletes generally do not give 2 shits about sculpting a nice round lat to impress strangers with. It's about being done for time, and this is the most efficient way to do it.
There are some things I enjoy about crossfit, especially the butterfly pull up. When I turn my phone sideways, it looks like they are swimming upstream, now that's entertainment!
No one would be hating if you didn't call them "pull ups" and then brag about being able to do 100+ "pull ups". Can you understand that? All this conflict rises because people call them "pull ups". You have your own method of pull ups, good for you and whatever your goal is. Then people brag about being able to do over 100 pull ups and that's when it becomes a joke, because they never put it into context that they're doing their own special pull ups. It's universally known that a pull up is simply pulling your body up. No tricks no magic, that's it. So when someone brags they can do 100 in 1 set, but fail to specify they're not doing regular pull ups, but kipping which utilizes momentum instead, that's where this all looks incredibly stupid. Just be clear and no one will have an issue with this lol.
@@spencergsmith lol wtf. you really asking that?? it called PULL UP... meaning pull your body up without kipping.. otherwise it pointless.. google it if you still don't know what pull mean?
@@kiranbhattarai856 "It called PULL UP... meaning pull your body up without kipping." Where does the term "pull-up" necessitate "without kipping." You're adding that descriptor based on your own preconceived bias. Here is the Oxford Dictionary's definition of the term: "an exercise involving raising oneself with one's arms by pulling up against a horizontal bar fixed above one's head." Nowhere in this definition does it say "without kipping." So why should the entirety of the fitness industry accept YOUR definition as fact? Personally, I think the term "pull-up" should include any method of moving your body from a position below the bar with arms completely extended to a position with your chin above the bar. Give me a logical reason why my definition is wrong and yours is correct?
@@spencergsmith lol so tell me what does push up mean then? bro I'm not going to have debate on these basic questions. you need to spend more time learning rather then arguing on dumb shit.
Mark Rippetoe: Kipping chin-ups/pull-ups are a derivative of the jumping version. The movement is performed using the momentum of a slight swing preceding the pull, when the swing is converted into an upward roll of the hips, translating the swing energy into upward movement. The kip distributes the movement over more muscle mass, using the abs, hip flexors, and lower back in addition to the lats and arms, so that more muscle mass is used in the exercise and more reps can be done. The strict versions concentrate the effort on less muscle mass and work it harder. The strict pull-up is to the strict standing press what the kipping pull-up is to the push-press. Both the strict press and the push-press will get the weight overhead, but the latter way would get it there faster, just as would the kipping pull-up. Think of it from a functional perspective; if you needed to get up on top of a wall as fast as possible would you do a strict pull-up or would you use your entire body to heave yourself up on top of the wall as fast as possible? (and if dogs were chasing you would you even have to consider this?) Mainly it depends on your goals. I think it's worthwhile for many of us to train as many grips/variations as possible, like thickbar pull-ups, rotating bar pull-ups, ring pull-ups, towel pull-ups, kipping pull-ups, L-sit pull-ups, prone/supine/neutral grip pull-ups, one arm pull-ups, wide, narrow, etc! I don't believe there is any one "best way" to pull our bodies up from a hanging position given the variety of physical obstacles that could fit the bill. These range from tree climbing, to wall climbing, to rope climbing, to sport climbing, to anything climbable. I relate this to the variety of ways that an object can be picked up off of the ground. Sure it would be nice to always lift things up with a straight back, but that isn't always practical, so it makes sense to train with a rounded back too. Ultimately it needs to meet your goals though. So if you just want big strong biceps, do chins, but if you want to climb a tree or use gymnastic rings, better train them all. And if you never have any ambition of competing in Ninja Warrior or scaling the Eiffel Tower there's nothing wrong with that either. That's really all I have to say about it... I've seen arguments over the legitimacy of kipping go on forever and that's not what this article is about. Look over at crossfit.com and you'll see this already hashed out. It's a personal decision in the end; if you don't like kipping and you prefer to isolate the pulling muscles, do strict pull-ups. It's no big deal. Hope that clear it up at least a little bit.
Unless you try it, don't talk trash about it. I once looked down at crossfit due to their unusual movements, especially the kipping or butterfly pull up. I'm all about strict movements and strength. But once I tried it, I loved it! It pushes me to new limits I didn't think I could attain. It's super effective and works if you are focused, dedicated and give it your all. If you try it and still don't like it, that's cool. I suppose not everyone is cut out for it.
exactly, i don't know if you've ever done a crossfit class but the way it is laid out is, part 1, warm up, part 2: strength eg, 1rm's or strict pull ups etc, phase 3: conditioning, this is where you would do the kipping pullup, and part 4: the warm down/stretching. and i agree it is a dead horse, no matter how you say it or how many times you say it people just don't want to listen because they're always right
The point is to make it as easy as possible. It's a competition, about doing the most pull-ups, using the least amount of energy, that's why they practise this technique. If you don't compete in any way, i agree with you, on the fact that strict pull-ups are better in many ways.
I think its fairly pointless entering an 'online word war' with the haters out there who think 'this' is shit and 'that' is shit, but to all of those who have previously commented, in your 'expert' opinion, why are these forms of pull ups 'pointless'. Rather than just dropping a hate bomb, give a valid reason. I've been a trainer for over 5 years now and can confidantly say, a good one and in MY opinion, these are great forms of this exercise.
At the bottom of the kipping pullup the kinetic energy of the downward motion is absorbed by the shoulder joint instead of the biceps and other prime movers absorbing the energy to slow down the movement as you approach dead-hanging position. The kipping pullup is related to conservation of momentum, meaning that if you reduce momentum by absorbing energy during the eccentric phase of the rep, you will ultimately have to spend more energy to do subsequent reps.
I disturbing why people can't understand that pull up and a kip aren't meant to be the same thing. I've never done a kip in my life but even I can see that they are not meant to be the same workout. Kip is more of a FULL body workout (engaging the core as well as arms and back) Pull ups isolate the back and arms. Like is it really that hard to understand? This instructor was even like "this is a strict pull up....now this is a kipping pull up" He never said that they were the same thing. ITS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE A PULL UP. GET THAT THROUGH YOUR HEADS!
thinkbigg1 We do strict pull ups all the time in CF. As a matter of fact, the skill portion of our class tomorrow is going to go over just pull ups, strict pull ups progressively adding lbs to our weighted vests, long slow controlled pulls.
This is a great exercise for building confidence and endurance. Most people can't do more than 5 pullups at a time which isn't much for strength building. A 'doable' exercise that mimics the same muscles is needed which is where the Kipping pullup is very useful in a practical sense. In competition it is what it is, speed is the point. But the kip does have a practical purpose as well.
Those haters out there, remember CrossFit is about full body exercise, meaning exercising the body not in isolation. So a standard pull up or even a crunch does not exist in CrossFit universe even though there is documentation that these isolated exercises are beneficial to building a specific area. CrossFit encourages more abdominal and hip development when you perform just about any activity. Think about hand stand pushups- they encourage using hips to move from flexion to extension to increase the ability to come to full elbow extension. Good video(from a guy who tried CrossFit but due to age changes finds its techniques not suitable to this guy). .
During our military training there are those who can do pull up very fast but they do it like crossfit(this term do exist then) and they are bull-outed. The way it is done is pull your body up until your chin is above the bar without chinning up and better if you can raise your body up to the breast.
from a back building perspective i agree...but the point here is doing more pullups and do more pullups in less time...this is because in crossfit workouts your objective is often do more reps as possible in a given time or do a given amount of reps in the less time possible...it's all about work capacity not about lat building :)
Good for you. I don't care what other people chose to do. I was simply giving my opinion on it. To me, this is the same as putting your knees on the floor while doing press ups. It takes away much of the effort and much of the potential gains. Still better than nothing and in this day and age, any exercise should be viewed as a positive.
agreed but again if you do it correctly by externally rotating your shoulder, your stabilizer muscles eg supraspinatus and the rotator cuff complex should prevent you from hyper extending by keeping the jumeral head centred in the glenoid cavity, if it is not doing that than there is probably a good chance that it may be weak or damaged. kipping pull ups should only be done imo by those that can do a minimum of 10 strict dead hangs to ensure that the joint is strong enough
Idk why everyone gets so butt hurt over crossfit I lift traditionally and do crossfit I love them both what's wrong with wanting to be a well rounded athlete and not just a gym rat they're called kipping pull ups nobody in crossfit claims their doing traditional pull ups but when the goal is to get from point a to point be as many times as fast as possible it's the most efficient you can't deny that and he says in the beginning of the video you shouldn't neglect strict pull ups soooooo there's really no reason to hate lol you can have your big muscles to look at in the mirror but we'll be the ones outperforming you in every other area
THANK YOU!!!! NO exercise or motion is ONLY for ONE goal of "Absolute Strength" work… pull ups and any exercise/motion can be used to develop absolute strength or endurance or anything in between…
His strict pullups looked fine to me. His kips looked fine to me. His butterfly kip pullups also looked fine to me. Point me to where he was displaying bad form?
The difference, though, is that the work is being performed by other muscles than the biceps, brachioradialis, and brachialis. In the case of kipping and butterfly pullups most of the force is initially generated by hip flexion and extension, which is then changed to momentum, meaning that less work is actually done by what are generally considered the prime movers of the pull up. A faster way to do a push up would be to flex and extend the back, but that wouldn't be effective training.
I agree but keep in mind that in crossfit you usually deadlift a tank 48 times and run 2 miles (on your hands) before you do 100 pull ups. so yeah, there has to be a way to accomplish this since it is a serious endurance challenge. also, don't forget that they differentiate between strict pull ups (like you suggest) and the more efficient momentum assisted kipping or butterfly pull ups.
we do normal pull ups too. We do kipping pull ups because for a work out after a 3 mile run during a workout we are completely gassed but we dont give up and keep pushing. We do all the other stuff outside of the WOD
To answer the question of whether or not kipping pullups are more dangerous than strict pullups all you have to do is look at what amounts of energy in the eccentric phase of the pullup are absorbed in muscles, vs. what amounts are absorbed in connective tissues of the joint. In a strict p.up the biceps and other muscles reduce momentum in the eccentric phase and absorb energy that would be placed on the joint if that weren't the case. contd.
Only kip after you've done several proper pull-ups, they are something to help you strive towards perfection; the training wheels eventually if you ride a bike.
I do power lifting, ironman competitions, strong man competitions, did a brief (Got bored out of my fucking mind) body building stint and now currently compete in crossfit. It is still the best decision i have ever made. I will continue to compete in all of them, but crossfit is the most beneficial BY FAR for my needs. Aka life
That's what xfit wods are. Mult excercises for multiple rounds, with NO rest if possible, which all incorporate full body movements. Example we had to run 800m then straight to 15 reps deadlift 60% of max weight, then 20 over bar burpees, then 25 situps then repeat. All of those use your legs except situps. My partner and I repped 250.Didn't finish the last round except for the last 800m. My point really is that alot of movements that are done in crossfit is on no rest or minimal rest periods.
i agree the are good for speed and quantity, however they are only bad for your shoulders if you become relaxed in your shoulders and allow them to internally rotate. compare it to the snatch, if you don't externally rotate your shoulder in the overhead position of the snatch it is bad for your shoulders because they aren't stabilized, likewise with the kip if you externally rotate and create torque your shoulders will become stable and there will be no shoulder injuries or problems
You build strength doing kipping pullups. When crossfitters want to build strict strength, with the objective of improving their main kipping one, they can do weighted or normal strict.
Old school bodybuilders who do strict pull ups need to understand that kipping pullups are used to generate kinetic energy for gymnasts on the rings or bar in gymnastics... they are not necessarily done to build or develop lat muscles they are used to start other advanced moves on bars and rings.
+Sharkman3472 Oh, right. Like all those times I've seen gymnasts on the rings generating kinetic energy to move from an L-sit to a handstand. Get off. Gymnasts don't train to "generate kinetic energy", they train to maintain control. And guess what you build when you do strict pull-ups?
+NeroBlack2200 Watch any ring routine on youtube and you see some kipping in the beginning of the movement to get them started. Strick pull ups are also used as well. Some kipping has its place in gymnastics.
Strick form is also used too, but sometimes "Body English" has its place. Can it be too much, sure, but there is a right and wrong way to use momentum to transition from one movement to another.
Clearly, all these athletes can do strict pull ups exceptionally. When Chris refers to efficiency, he is talking about speed. Crossfit measures a pull up by getting your chin above the bar - so butterflys are the fastest way to get reps. Most of the people in this video have competed in the Crossfit games which is a competition where you have to complete work outs as fast as possible. Kipping may not build muscle as efficiently, but when trying to complete workouts as fast as you can, they are the most efficient.
I'd rather by super strong than fast ANYDAY!!!! Crossfit IS FOR PUSSIES!!!! Crossfit is Stupid and injury prone not to mention its the prime cause of rhabdo!!!!
Do you think you can do more strict pullups than spealler? or clean more? What if the WOD included a bunch of other movements and we granted you your strictpullups? Think you'd be close to competitive?
This isn't considered bad form. Gymnastics have kipping and it's considered okay. If you want a strict pull up, which CrossFit calls for sometimes, then yes it's bad form. However, it allows it to be a slightly different workout, one for your back and a cardiovascular. kipping allows more volume.
crossfit is fastest way to hospital.too much repetition and incorrect execution of exercises, almost all the exercises used hitch. every flick of the body that would pick up the weight is another step closer to to injury. it's just matter of time when you will snap something in your back or shoulder. and bottom line is - crossfit is not best way for building muscle because it burns too much enery and doesn't focus gruop of muscles and also it's higher risk of injury than plain old-fashioned training. but what a hell, if you like it- do it. it's your life
"crossfit is fastest way to hospital" - I can tell you the same about bodybuilding, boxing, wrestling, football etc. "almost all the exercises used hitch" - so what? Olympic weightlifters do that too. Bodybuilders never cheat? "crossfit is not best way for building muscle" - I never heard them telling that its the best way. The only thing that I can see dangerous in it is overloading cardio (heart) system with non-stop exercises.
don't mix up sports with exercises and training. every sport with contact can be dangerous. but my point was simple, put 10 random people into crossfit and bodybuilding ( that doesn't mean that they must be some YOLO , crazy idiotic arnold wannabes but normal everyday people ) and you will have more injuried people in crossfit because of Ways to performing exercises, most of the exercises is tantamount to use momentum to lift the weight and that is really dangerous for body ( shoulders and back are random injuries in crossfit ). I'm not saying that yolo retards never hurted themselfs doing bodybuilding because they are doing it wrong, just that crossfit can be more dangerous for NORMAL ,average people than bodybuilding because of way how you perform an exercise Just when you see how they do pullups, they use hitch to carry them over, when you use hitch to do exercise it's not matter will you but -when you will you pick up elbow or shoulder injury. that's just my opionion...
Petar Gulin Thanks for sharing your non-helpful opinion. I went to a regular gym for years and got injured constantly, so I don't see a valid point in anything you're saying. I have no idea where you got the idea that in bodybuilding you get less injured. All movements involving heavy weights or intense workouts without watching your form will lead to injury. Know your own body and listen to it. Duh.
Petar Gulin I've never been injured doing crossfit. I did my shoulder twice an my hamstring once doing "Bodybuilder" style training. Also, "Crossfit doesn't focus on group muscles"... Do you even know what a compound movement is!?
Wrong. A muscle-bound meathead would be on his way to the hospital attempting a single kip. Mobility exercises are a way of life in CrossFit, so people who do CF have a lot more mobility than your average gym-goer. And you're right, if building muscle is what you want, CrossFit isn't the fastest way to do that. Bodybuilding is. But, if you want to build strength, then bodybuilding isn't the way to do that. It all depends on your goals. I do CrossFit and weightlifting. I'm about 195 lbs at 5'10. Not huge, but pretty big for my size.
All the the exercise u think that can snap shit up, obviously you've nver done any of them, bcos u only do the exercises that u can use momentum w/ without hurting urself.
Nyllet1221 How can you immediately conclude that kipping pullups can instantly cause injury? All exercise can snap some shit up if not done correctly, the same with this type of pullup, as it takes practice and conditioning to be able to perform it safely. The same with power movements such as power cleans and push presses, both are explosive exercises like the kipping pullups. And what i'm trying to say is maybe ur just doing exercises such as bicep curls, tricep pulldowns, front raises and other exercises that u can use momentum with without as much risk as this crossfit type explosive exercises.
yeah im probably just using momentum as crossfitters do to pretend to be strong. how about they use the tested and proved pullup instead of trying to flap like a fish and bang their foreheads against a pole? and its not the fucking same with power movements, sure power cleans are impossible to do in a controlled manner, but you CAN do that with any other exercise, except probably the kepler pullup, you should probably try going out 30 cm in a very controlled motion and making a circle. not gonna happen.
Nyllet1221 Obviously this ppl can do the standard pullup, and they practiced it before proceeding to perform the kipping pullups. The only problem u have w/ the kipping pullup is that it doesn't build muscle and u think that if he just did the standard pullup it'll be more efficient bcos it'll help develop their lats better, but not all ppl train to build muscle, they train for performance. Can u do muscle ups without the help of momentum?. And it's just the same with power cleans/jerk, u use momentum to be able to perform exercise in a controlled manner. Doing the kipping pullups is not just flopping or body, they still have control over the momentum their applying. The only thing slow control movement can help is in Bodybuilding, if u want to build muscle. But training for performance and athleticism, Bodybuilding type exercises are useless. Let's see a Bodybuilder perform crossfit/military type drills/exercises, we'll see how far they can get. Plus a Crossfit type training can be applied in the outside world better.
In my box we do strict, kipping, and butterfly. Try this WOD. 10 strict C2B 10 back squat 60% 1RM 20 kipping C2B 20 back squat 60% 1RM 30 butterfly C2B 30 back squat 60% 1RM 3 Rounds
I usually do not post a response to people like this because most of the time they do not understand. Regarding the pullups, if you were on the side of a cliff or on a branch would you try and strict pull yourself up? No of course not, it is not efficient. The kip is a natural humanoid movement, completely functional. Gymnasts have utilized the kip in their routines forever. The strict pullups are not bad just not as efficient when regards to the butterfly kip or a regular kip. Visit a box!
In a kipping pullup, the biceps and other muscles do not absorb as much energy in the eccentric phase which causes the body to swing forward, resulting in hyperextension of the shoulders; this allows the kinetic energy during the swing back to be used to complete the next repetition. The point is that since the biceps are not absorbing kinetic energy during the eccentric phase, the joint will absorb it during the swinging phase.You think force is energy, so there's no point in further discussion
@MarssMedia has a good answer below. But also could see this translate into everyday work/circumstances as its "more efficient" as Chris mentioned in the video. That's the way I understand them at least.
it's not just about volume it's about performing that volume in the least amount of time. and what harm is there in doing them as long as you do them properly ie keeping shoulder torque and the rib cage flat. and if it works your core that is a bonus. we do enough posterior chain work anyway with our lifts. because there is very little need to work your anterior chain because of our everyday lives sitting down at computers etc. if you want a core exercise try doing L sits rope climbs
I have. One was about 50 years old and a brazilian ju jitsu martial artist, and the other was probably a little older than 50 and was a gymnast. Both were very thin and probably not above 5'6''.
We do do strict pull ups. We do weighted and strict pull ups during training. But for competition and timed events its a lot faster and efficient to do more for workouts where we have to do as many as possible.
Remember, the point of crossfit is to do as many reps as you possibly can. I incorporate a decent amount of Crossfit training (before you say I don't have any strength, I can do a one arm pullup), and the thing I like about it is you can go to literal failure, because your reps are easier. What I'll do is regular pullups until I know I have three or four left in me, than I'll do eight or so of these pullups. No need to be close-minded, bro.
Most people work out with the desire of getting stronger and or building muscle. Any movement that can be performed 30+ times is not efficiently making you stronger or building muscle. Kipping may be a useful tool for someone who is incapable of doing more than 1 or 2 strict pull ups, but once multiple kips can be performed in a row, it is my completely unprofessional opinion that that person should then graduate to an actual pull up to receive the most out of their workout.
The guy does strict pullups at the very beginning of the vid. I would also hazard a guess that almost everybody featured in this video is stronger than you, as well as fitter. If not, I look forward to seeing your uploads. Surely, you'll deliver. skeleton.jpg
i like crossfit and i think it's fun but this is the only exercise i REFUSE to do. I don't care how long it takes me to do a routine with pull ups slowing me down, but to me the most efficient pull up is pull ups with proper form with no kip.....again i love crossfit i just think how they do pull ups is stupid
Romeo, I agree with you here. I understand that this is supposed to be more of a full body exercise with power coming your hips, but if I'm in a pull-up cage I want to work on my pull-up strength. There are plenty of other exercises to work the rest of the body.
OK, maybe someone can answer this for me. Kipping/Butterfly is so efficient that there's no need in Crossfit for Chin-ups, Commando Pull-ups, One-arm Pull-ups, Towel Pull-ups, Wide-grip Pull-ups, Combo-grip Pull-ups, V Pull-ups, Plyo Pull-ups or Eccentric Pull-ups of any the aforementioned varieties? If it's designed for real-world applications, doesn't it happen in the real world where you may not be in ideal conditions where if you train with all the varieties I mentioned, you're more apt to find a way to handle the situation? Speed and time is one thing, but what if you're raising or lowering a rope with someone attached; speed is not wanted there. Or firefighters breaching a ceiling or wall; you're not going to have that shoulder-width grip to kip that you'd get with Towel Pull-ups. Address one or address all, because I'm curious.
+Edward Kotwica When he's talking about efficiency hes talking about energy efficiency. So this is mostly interesting to people wanting to perform well in crossfit wods. The wod is the competition side of crossfit. Beside that there both a strength and a skill part. where all these thing could be used.
The people in this seminar are high level, even Olympic level athletes. I would think that they know enough about body mechanics to make sure that they have a stable shoulder position in a gymnastics style movement like a kipping or butterfly "pull up". I am L1 coach and work with a variety of athletes at different levels and strengths, kipping is not for everyone right away. If you were unaware of how to keep your shoulder in a stable position through out the movement you will break and repetitively you are susceptible to injury but at a high level of fitness both physically and mentally these are not dangerous.
Its acceptable because it allows you to use correct form even after you don't have enough strength to do a regular pull up with perfect form. Its better to do 10 perfect push ups and then 10 more perfect girl push ups than it is to do 10 perfect pushups and 10 more with bad form. Honestly you can get better results with half the weight with perfect form. It focuses on muscle groups and also keeps you from injuring yourself.
" torque is what creates force energy and is also what keeps joints stable" Well, firstly force is not a measure of energy. If you mean that torque is what creates force, then you are also mistaken here. Muscles generate the force which then causes a torque to be exerted on the lever arm (bones). "torque is what creates force energy and is also what keeps joints stable." Once again, force is not a unit of energy and force is what causes torque, not the reverse.
Why not just stick with what's been proven to work for centuries with the original pull up? nothing wrong with crossfit but don't cheat yourself out of a proper pull up smh
Haters! You do realize that the majority of elite crossfit athletes were former athletes of other sports including professional sports ranging from track/gymnastics to football/etc. it is impossible to complete a crossfit workout performing strict pull ups. I would venture to say that all crossfit terms do practice strict pull ups to build strength and I would guarantee that these guys can do way more strict pull ups unbroken then any one of you guys hating on this video. Try it before you
Butterfly kips, in fact, any kips in pullups. Scum of the earth. Cuts any benefit in half and will cause injuries. Wait, did I hear him say "not so efficient?" Holy crap, this is hilarious
Look, you said you'd never seen anyone do it, so I just pointed out that some people can. The point is that kipping doesn't really do anything for you in terms of building strength or endurance -- it's just a means of doing more "reps" faster in a manner that allows people to use momentum instead of generating the energy solely in the arms and back. Kipping is bad for the shoulders too. Just be honest man, the only thing they're good for is optimizing speed and quantity in comps.
The point is to win. Crossfit is about complete the workout before others do. In crossfit maybe you have to do 100 pull ups in less time possible...nobody cares if you can do a couple of them with heavy weight or how big and strong your back is. It's like in powerlifting: the goal is to bench the heaviest possible, so you try to make the shortest range of motion, you don't care about chest building. I personally do strict pull and chin ups most of the time, but that's not the point here. :)
i've watched a lot of crossfit videos and i can't remember one with people doing strict dead hang pull ups. also if i were hanging off the side of a building or a cliff i'd probably have no room to kick my legs forward to use my momentum to thrust myself upwards so i'd have no other choices other than to die or dead hang pull my entire body up to safety.
Kipping pullups aren't done just by themselves, theyre part of a bigger scale workout. The people at the gym that do pullups don't go do deadlifts, then something else, then straight to pullups with minimal rest either.
The point is speed and efficiency. This isn't bodybuilding. The goal isn't to develop back muscles therefore we're not focusing on the "squeeze" or time under tension you achieve from strict pullups.
What do they do for your body? They make you look like a fool, and give you an inefficient back workout. You'll probably snap some shit up too. Whatever grip you're using (wide/close/underhand,etc) keep your form strict to work the back fully, and avoid injury.
I see a lot of people defending the kipping by saying it's more efficient or "what if you're dangling from a cliff..." but there's really only one purpose for kipping: to get a faster time to write on the board for their wods.
This is exactly my point. There is NO benefit. They are completely pointless. Efficient? Efficient in making you achieve going up and down faster, maybe. But definitely not more efficient in giving you a rockin' bod.
Crossfit emphasizes strict pull ups in the strength/skill portion of the programming. Kipping pull ups should only be used in WODs as it is more efficient. My strength training includes strict weighted pull ups for strength, and I work on my kip for technique only. Not as my main source of pull up training. There's a difference. Most of what you see on RUclips is WODs, not strength work. Just laying it out there for everyone.
On 3:55 he starts to explain about elbow Position. But I didn't understand. Is it good or bad to put elbows back? Because he says it is good to stay Elbows Back, but on the practical explanation, he says 4:19 (BAD with elbows back), and 4:21 (Good with elbows in front). I saw and re-saw the explanation, but maybe I got an English difficult here. Not my native language.
I Guess I got it now, it was one exercise, to keep elbows in tight, just to let people know how to end the movement, but when you are pulling your chest to the bar, you keep elbows back, and to end the movement is good to keep elbows in tight? Is that right? +CrossFit® , right?
I cannot stand when people say that kipping pullups are "cheating" because you're swinging on a bar.The whole purpose of a kipping pullup is to get the maximum amount of pullups in a given time. Second of all you're not "swinging on a bar." Learning how to do the kip requires a lot of strength and it requires you to first master the standard pullup. You cannot do the kip efficiently without mastering the standard pull up first and mastering the kip takes a lot of practice
If you are using pull ups to translate your "Pull Power" development into something for real world/functional application there is nothing wrong with kipping pull ups IMO - though I see no use for butterfly pull ups personally. Strict form pull ups for 'bulk' are strictly for ego and mass as far as I'm concerned and your goal is to be big and beautiful go for it.
kipping pull ups fucked my shoulders up. its been 5 months and im still not where i was at when i injured myself. I used to be able to use 25lb weights in my pull ups. after the incident i couldnt even do 2. Im finally close to adding weight onto my pull ups but i will NEVER kip again.
Besides of coordination. So you have a variety of different movements, wich end in a fun workout, wich is butterfly pull up. But in the end, i dont understand why wouldn't you try the workout if you truly want to say "this is worthless". You wont get killed, and believe me, it's going to be a challenge. BUT it depends on your porposes, if you are a bodybuilder skip them. But if you ask me i found them fun and also nice for my muscles, endurance, some core and coordination.I also do strict
I have a 48" vertical jump.
I use a trampoline- it's more efficient.
I don't know what I hate more. Watching people think that they can do 50+ pull ups, or Kali Muscle telling me to eating top ramen with cheezles.
How about looking fat in that picture,
watching this
HAHAHAAHAHHAHA!"!!!! made my dayy!!! xDDD :'D
Or that overhand grip pullups are good for the body. I thought the world knew to only use rope or neutral grip only by now .
Kipping Pull-ups. A great way for beginners to fuck up their shoulders. Trashing your cartilage with multiples of body weight.
Not a single rep was done that day.
he did demonstrate strict pullups at first....so that's one or two reps
Time to bust out the protein shakes then, this bitch is surely going to go catabolic
why don't you challenge a crossfitter to 1rm in squats, front squats, clean and jerks, snatches, deadlifts, push press, strict press etc. you wont
CF Ryno now you are just describing cross-fit, so naturally a cross-fitter would do better.
Setting up a 1RM competition in the big 3 between a new power lifter and a new cross-fitter with the same lifting time, then narutally the power lifter would come out on top, since he has spent 100% of his training time improving the big 3, while the cross-fitter has been working on the big 3 for way less than that.
Sure, the crossfitter has a higher 1RM or aMRaP in front-squats, oly lifts and bastardized CF lifts, but he would get crushed in the big 3.
Cross-fit is not magic and you can't be better at every sport than athletes doing that sport exclusively. Take a look at the Cross-fit games and the running parts. They suck at that. But they are awesome at handstand walks.....
ProzacPreacher youre missing the point. all these people talk bad about crossfit but wont challenge us at it. obviously an oly lifter is going to be better than us at it and that's why we respect it and don't talk bad about it. obviously a bodybuilder is going to be able to curl more than us that's why we don't talk bad about it. but don't talk trash about crossfit and then back down from actually doing it
I will never ever do a kip pull-up. It's a very inefficient way to work out the lats using momentum to cheat yourself into thinking you are doing work compared to the tried and true basic pull-up.
Exactly...
CrossFit® So perfoming adduction of the upper arm through the shoulder (primary joint used) uses what muscle as the primary mover? That is right kids, your lats! Key words here primary and mover. Not your biceps, or infra supra spinatus, not rhomboid, not trapezius, not your extensors or flexors in your forearms. Nope those are all secondary or stabilizers in the movement.
CrossFit® Dave Castro is that you?
Jed Schuler Way to miss the point Mr. Anatomy. Crossfit said "Who said it had anything to do with training your lats?" Referring to the kipping/butterfly pullup. Unlike vanity building, Crossfit athletes generally do not give 2 shits about sculpting a nice round lat to impress strangers with. It's about being done for time, and this is the most efficient way to do it.
Way to miss the point. That's like saying squats don't work your legs. Is that a true or false statement?
I laughed when I read Efficiency Tips for pullups froma crossfiter ... funniest thing I read today
There are some things I enjoy about crossfit, especially the butterfly pull up. When I turn my phone sideways, it looks like they are swimming upstream, now that's entertainment!
Kipping in gymnastics is for doing tricks on the bar. Not for half assing pull-ups.
No one would be hating if you didn't call them "pull ups" and then brag about being able to do 100+ "pull ups". Can you understand that? All this conflict rises because people call them "pull ups".
You have your own method of pull ups, good for you and whatever your goal is.
Then people brag about being able to do over 100 pull ups and that's when it becomes a joke, because they never put it into context that they're doing their own special pull ups.
It's universally known that a pull up is simply pulling your body up. No tricks no magic, that's it. So when someone brags they can do 100 in 1 set, but fail to specify they're not doing regular pull ups, but kipping which utilizes momentum instead, that's where this all looks incredibly stupid.
Just be clear and no one will have an issue with this lol.
Define what a pull-up is.
@@spencergsmith lol wtf. you really asking that?? it called PULL UP... meaning pull your body up without kipping.. otherwise it pointless.. google it if you still don't know what pull mean?
@@kiranbhattarai856 "It called PULL UP... meaning pull your body up without kipping." Where does the term "pull-up" necessitate "without kipping." You're adding that descriptor based on your own preconceived bias. Here is the Oxford Dictionary's definition of the term:
"an exercise involving raising oneself with one's arms by pulling up against a horizontal bar fixed above one's head."
Nowhere in this definition does it say "without kipping." So why should the entirety of the fitness industry accept YOUR definition as fact? Personally, I think the term "pull-up" should include any method of moving your body from a position below the bar with arms completely extended to a position with your chin above the bar. Give me a logical reason why my definition is wrong and yours is correct?
@@spencergsmith lol so tell me what does push up mean then? bro I'm not going to have debate on these basic questions. you need to spend more time learning rather then arguing on dumb shit.
.....hipster beanie...hipster pull-ups....crossfit is the new hipster fit scene
@Fina Kirova how's the IRA?
I love watching the comedy section of RUclips fitness
Mark Rippetoe:
Kipping chin-ups/pull-ups are a derivative of the jumping version. The movement is performed using the momentum of a slight swing preceding the pull, when the swing is converted into an upward roll of the hips, translating the swing energy into upward movement. The kip distributes the movement over more muscle mass, using the abs, hip flexors, and lower back in addition to the lats and arms, so that more muscle mass is used in the exercise and more reps can be done. The strict versions concentrate the effort on less muscle mass and work it harder.
The strict pull-up is to the strict standing press what the kipping pull-up is to the push-press. Both the strict press and the push-press will get the weight overhead, but the latter way would get it there faster, just as would the kipping pull-up. Think of it from a functional perspective; if you needed to get up on top of a wall as fast as possible would you do a strict pull-up or would you use your entire body to heave yourself up on top of the wall as fast as possible? (and if dogs were chasing you would you even have to consider this?)
Mainly it depends on your goals. I think it's worthwhile for many of us to train as many grips/variations as possible, like thickbar pull-ups, rotating bar pull-ups, ring pull-ups, towel pull-ups, kipping pull-ups, L-sit pull-ups, prone/supine/neutral grip pull-ups, one arm pull-ups, wide, narrow, etc! I don't believe there is any one "best way" to pull our bodies up from a hanging position given the variety of physical obstacles that could fit the bill. These range from tree climbing, to wall climbing, to rope climbing, to sport climbing, to anything climbable. I relate this to the variety of ways that an object can be picked up off of the ground. Sure it would be nice to always lift things up with a straight back, but that isn't always practical, so it makes sense to train with a rounded back too. Ultimately it needs to meet your goals though. So if you just want big strong biceps, do chins, but if you want to climb a tree or use gymnastic rings, better train them all. And if you never have any ambition of competing in Ninja Warrior or scaling the Eiffel Tower there's nothing wrong with that either.
That's really all I have to say about it... I've seen arguments over the legitimacy of kipping go on forever and that's not what this article is about. Look over at crossfit.com and you'll see this already hashed out. It's a personal decision in the end; if you don't like kipping and you prefer to isolate the pulling muscles, do strict pull-ups. It's no big deal.
Hope that clear it up at least a little bit.
I just fucken hate crossfit
Unless you try it, don't talk trash about it. I once looked down at crossfit due to their unusual movements, especially the kipping or butterfly pull up. I'm all about strict movements and strength. But once I tried it, I loved it! It pushes me to new limits I didn't think I could attain. It's super effective and works if you are focused, dedicated and give it your all. If you try it and still don't like it, that's cool. I suppose not everyone is cut out for it.
The correct way to do an incorrect pull up got it!
this is so funny crossfit is really fun to watch
exactly, i don't know if you've ever done a crossfit class but the way it is laid out is, part 1, warm up, part 2: strength eg, 1rm's or strict pull ups etc, phase 3: conditioning, this is where you would do the kipping pullup, and part 4: the warm down/stretching.
and i agree it is a dead horse, no matter how you say it or how many times you say it people just don't want to listen because they're always right
The point is to make it as easy as possible. It's a competition, about doing the most pull-ups, using the least amount of energy, that's why they practise this technique. If you don't compete in any way, i agree with you, on the fact that strict pull-ups are better in many ways.
I think its fairly pointless entering an 'online word war' with the haters out there who think 'this' is shit and 'that' is shit, but to all of those who have previously commented, in your 'expert' opinion, why are these forms of pull ups 'pointless'.
Rather than just dropping a hate bomb, give a valid reason.
I've been a trainer for over 5 years now and can confidantly say, a good one and in MY opinion, these are great forms of this exercise.
At the bottom of the kipping pullup the kinetic energy of the downward motion is absorbed by the shoulder joint instead of the biceps and other prime movers absorbing the energy to slow down the movement as you approach dead-hanging position. The kipping pullup is related to conservation of momentum, meaning that if you reduce momentum by absorbing energy during the eccentric phase of the rep, you will ultimately have to spend more energy to do subsequent reps.
I disturbing why people can't understand that pull up and a kip aren't meant to be the same thing. I've never done a kip in my life but even I can see that they are not meant to be the same workout. Kip is more of a FULL body workout (engaging the core as well as arms and back) Pull ups isolate the back and arms. Like is it really that hard to understand? This instructor was even like "this is a strict pull up....now this is a kipping pull up" He never said that they were the same thing. ITS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE A PULL UP. GET THAT THROUGH YOUR HEADS!
You just explained more than the instructor.
thinkbigg1 I'M NOT DISAGREEING WITH YOU. I JUST WANT TO TYPE IN ALL-CAPS!!!!!
thinkbigg1 We do strict pull ups all the time in CF. As a matter of fact, the skill portion of our class tomorrow is going to go over just pull ups, strict pull ups progressively adding lbs to our weighted vests, long slow controlled pulls.
The man, the legend, is back at it again
This is a great exercise for building confidence and endurance. Most people can't do more than 5 pullups at a time which isn't much for strength building. A 'doable' exercise that mimics the same muscles is needed which is where the Kipping pullup is very useful in a practical sense. In competition it is what it is, speed is the point. But the kip does have a practical purpose as well.
Those haters out there, remember CrossFit is about full body exercise, meaning exercising the body not in isolation. So a standard pull up or even a crunch does not exist in CrossFit universe even though there is documentation that these isolated exercises are beneficial to building a specific area. CrossFit encourages more abdominal and hip development when you perform just about any activity. Think about hand stand pushups- they encourage using hips to move from flexion to extension to increase the ability to come to full elbow extension. Good video(from a guy who tried CrossFit but due to age changes finds its techniques not suitable to this guy). .
WOW a cross fit instructor teaching real legitimate pull-ups as a different exercise than kip ups. it's about time.
During our military training there are those who can do pull up very fast but they do it like crossfit(this term do exist then) and they are bull-outed. The way it is done is pull your body up until your chin is above the bar without chinning up and better if you can raise your body up to the breast.
from a back building perspective i agree...but the point here is doing more pullups and do more pullups in less time...this is because in crossfit workouts your objective is often do more reps as possible in a given time or do a given amount of reps in the less time possible...it's all about work capacity not about lat building :)
Good for you. I don't care what other people chose to do. I was simply giving my opinion on it. To me, this is the same as putting your knees on the floor while doing press ups. It takes away much of the effort and much of the potential gains. Still better than nothing and in this day and age, any exercise should be viewed as a positive.
agreed but again if you do it correctly by externally rotating your shoulder, your stabilizer muscles eg supraspinatus and the rotator cuff complex should prevent you from hyper extending by keeping the jumeral head centred in the glenoid cavity, if it is not doing that than there is probably a good chance that it may be weak or damaged. kipping pull ups should only be done imo by those that can do a minimum of 10 strict dead hangs to ensure that the joint is strong enough
Nice fish out of water form
mynameisrits poes
Awesome tips and the guy showing all the wrong ways then the right way to do things really helps! Thanks I think i'll try butterfly pull ups now!
Idk why everyone gets so butt hurt over crossfit I lift traditionally and do crossfit I love them both what's wrong with wanting to be a well rounded athlete and not just a gym rat they're called kipping pull ups nobody in crossfit claims their doing traditional pull ups but when the goal is to get from point a to point be as many times as fast as possible it's the most efficient you can't deny that and he says in the beginning of the video you shouldn't neglect strict pull ups soooooo there's really no reason to hate lol you can have your big muscles to look at in the mirror but we'll be the ones outperforming you in every other area
THANK YOU!!!! NO exercise or motion is ONLY for ONE goal of "Absolute Strength" work… pull ups and any exercise/motion can be used to develop absolute strength or endurance or anything in between…
Giving up good form and proper technique for high reps, fucking disgraceful.
His strict pullups looked fine to me. His kips looked fine to me. His butterfly kip pullups also looked fine to me. Point me to where he was displaying bad form?
The kipping part
Ger Ryan That's like standing next to someone while they’re pulling and saying, “Hey! That’s not a squat! That’s a deadlift!” Good call, bud
neilmets applying your fitness outside the gym...that's what fitness is all about right there
haha , fine example of crossfit helping everyday situations, i even started doing some strict reps before finishing off with some butterfly!
The difference, though, is that the work is being performed by other muscles than the biceps, brachioradialis, and brachialis. In the case of kipping and butterfly pullups most of the force is initially generated by hip flexion and extension, which is then changed to momentum, meaning that less work is actually done by what are generally considered the prime movers of the pull up.
A faster way to do a push up would be to flex and extend the back, but that wouldn't be effective training.
I agree but keep in mind that in crossfit you usually deadlift a tank 48 times and run 2 miles (on your hands) before you do 100 pull ups. so yeah, there has to be a way to accomplish this since it is a serious endurance challenge. also, don't forget that they differentiate between strict pull ups (like you suggest) and the more efficient momentum assisted kipping or butterfly pull ups.
we do normal pull ups too. We do kipping pull ups because for a work out after a 3 mile run during a workout we are completely gassed but we dont give up and keep pushing. We do all the other stuff outside of the WOD
To answer the question of whether or not kipping pullups are more dangerous than strict pullups all you have to do is look at what amounts of energy in the eccentric phase of the pullup are absorbed in muscles, vs. what amounts are absorbed in connective tissues of the joint. In a strict p.up the biceps and other muscles reduce momentum in the eccentric phase and absorb energy that would be placed on the joint if that weren't the case. contd.
Only kip after you've done several proper pull-ups, they are something to help you strive towards perfection; the training wheels eventually if you ride a bike.
Chris Spealler is a great coach, so stoked to see him and Holmberg kill 13.4.
I do power lifting, ironman competitions, strong man competitions, did a brief (Got bored out of my fucking mind) body building stint and now currently compete in crossfit. It is still the best decision i have ever made. I will continue to compete in all of them, but crossfit is the most beneficial BY FAR for my needs. Aka life
it's like a class for elite/advanced crossfitter. everyone there are games competitors
Thanks much to crossfit for this video should really help out my kipping form.
That's what xfit wods are. Mult excercises for multiple rounds, with NO rest if possible, which all incorporate full body movements. Example we had to run 800m then straight to 15 reps deadlift 60% of max weight, then 20 over bar burpees, then 25 situps then repeat. All of those use your legs except situps. My partner and I repped 250.Didn't finish the last round except for the last 800m. My point really is that alot of movements that are done in crossfit is on no rest or minimal rest periods.
i agree the are good for speed and quantity, however they are only bad for your shoulders if you become relaxed in your shoulders and allow them to internally rotate. compare it to the snatch, if you don't externally rotate your shoulder in the overhead position of the snatch it is bad for your shoulders because they aren't stabilized, likewise with the kip if you externally rotate and create torque your shoulders will become stable and there will be no shoulder injuries or problems
You build strength doing kipping pullups. When crossfitters want to build strict strength, with the objective of improving their main kipping one, they can do weighted or normal strict.
If you don't like to build muscles, this is a great exercise for you!
Old school bodybuilders who do strict pull ups need to understand that kipping pullups are used to generate kinetic energy for gymnasts on the rings or bar in gymnastics... they are not necessarily done to build or develop lat muscles they are used to start other advanced moves on bars and rings.
+Sharkman3472 Oh, right. Like all those times I've seen gymnasts on the rings generating kinetic energy to move from an L-sit to a handstand. Get off. Gymnasts don't train to "generate kinetic energy", they train to maintain control. And guess what you build when you do strict pull-ups?
+NeroBlack2200 Watch any ring routine on youtube and you see some kipping in the beginning of the movement to get them started. Strick pull ups are also used as well. Some kipping has its place in gymnastics.
+NeroBlack2200 Generating kinetic energy is used in any and all sports.
Sharkman3472 Yes, but there's context to consider.
Strick form is also used too, but sometimes "Body English" has its place. Can it be too much, sure, but there is a right and wrong way to use momentum to transition from one movement to another.
Clearly, all these athletes can do strict pull ups exceptionally. When Chris refers to efficiency, he is talking about speed. Crossfit measures a pull up by getting your chin above the bar - so butterflys are the fastest way to get reps. Most of the people in this video have competed in the Crossfit games which is a competition where you have to complete work outs as fast as possible. Kipping may not build muscle as efficiently, but when trying to complete workouts as fast as you can, they are the most efficient.
I'd rather by super strong than fast ANYDAY!!!! Crossfit IS FOR PUSSIES!!!! Crossfit is Stupid and injury prone not to mention its the prime cause of rhabdo!!!!
Do you think you can do more strict pullups than spealler? or clean more? What if the WOD included a bunch of other movements and we granted you your strictpullups? Think you'd be close to competitive?
This isn't considered bad form. Gymnastics have kipping and it's considered okay. If you want a strict pull up, which CrossFit calls for sometimes, then yes it's bad form. However, it allows it to be a slightly different workout, one for your back and a cardiovascular. kipping allows more volume.
crossfit is fastest way to hospital.too much repetition and incorrect execution of exercises, almost all the exercises used hitch. every flick of the body that would pick up the weight is another step closer to to injury.
it's just matter of time when you will snap something in your back or shoulder. and bottom line is - crossfit is not best way for building muscle because it burns too much enery and doesn't focus gruop of muscles and also it's higher risk of injury than plain old-fashioned training. but what a hell, if you like it- do it. it's your life
"crossfit is fastest way to hospital" - I can tell you the same about bodybuilding, boxing, wrestling, football etc.
"almost all the exercises used hitch" - so what? Olympic weightlifters do that too. Bodybuilders never cheat?
"crossfit is not best way for building muscle" - I never heard them telling that its the best way. The only thing that I can see dangerous in it is overloading cardio (heart) system with non-stop exercises.
don't mix up sports with exercises and training. every sport with contact can be dangerous. but my point was simple, put 10 random people into crossfit and bodybuilding ( that doesn't mean that they must be some YOLO , crazy idiotic arnold wannabes but normal everyday people ) and you will have more injuried people in crossfit because of Ways to performing exercises, most of the exercises is tantamount to use momentum to lift the weight and that is really dangerous for body ( shoulders and back are random injuries in crossfit ). I'm not saying that yolo retards never hurted themselfs doing bodybuilding because they are doing it wrong, just that crossfit can be more dangerous for NORMAL ,average people than bodybuilding because of way how you perform an exercise
Just when you see how they do pullups, they use hitch to carry them over, when you use hitch to do exercise it's not matter will you but -when you will you pick up elbow or shoulder injury.
that's just my opionion...
Petar Gulin Thanks for sharing your non-helpful opinion. I went to a regular gym for years and got injured constantly, so I don't see a valid point in anything you're saying. I have no idea where you got the idea that in bodybuilding you get less injured. All movements involving heavy weights or intense workouts without watching your form will lead to injury. Know your own body and listen to it. Duh.
Petar Gulin I've never been injured doing crossfit. I did my shoulder twice an my hamstring once doing "Bodybuilder" style training. Also, "Crossfit doesn't focus on group muscles"... Do you even know what a compound movement is!?
Wrong. A muscle-bound meathead would be on his way to the hospital attempting a single kip. Mobility exercises are a way of life in CrossFit, so people who do CF have a lot more mobility than your average gym-goer. And you're right, if building muscle is what you want, CrossFit isn't the fastest way to do that. Bodybuilding is. But, if you want to build strength, then bodybuilding isn't the way to do that. It all depends on your goals. I do CrossFit and weightlifting. I'm about 195 lbs at 5'10. Not huge, but pretty big for my size.
that is one controlled pull-up. all residents of snap-city would be proud.
All the the exercise u think that can snap shit up, obviously you've nver done any of them, bcos u only do the exercises that u can use momentum w/ without hurting urself.
im not sure if youre saying that cant snap shit up or if youre saying i dont train, or both, because both are wrong.
Nyllet1221 How can you immediately conclude that kipping pullups can instantly cause injury? All exercise can snap some shit up if not done correctly, the same with this type of pullup, as it takes practice and conditioning to be able to perform it safely. The same with power movements such as power cleans and push presses, both are explosive exercises like the kipping pullups. And what i'm trying to say is maybe ur just doing exercises such as bicep curls, tricep pulldowns, front raises and other exercises that u can use momentum with without as much risk as this crossfit type explosive exercises.
yeah im probably just using momentum as crossfitters do to pretend to be strong. how about they use the tested and proved pullup instead of trying to flap like a fish and bang their foreheads against a pole?
and its not the fucking same with power movements, sure power cleans are impossible to do in a controlled manner, but you CAN do that with any other exercise, except probably the kepler pullup, you should probably try going out 30 cm in a very controlled motion and making a circle. not gonna happen.
Nyllet1221 Obviously this ppl can do the standard pullup, and they practiced it before proceeding to perform the kipping pullups. The only problem u have w/ the kipping pullup is that it doesn't build muscle and u think that if he just did the standard pullup it'll be more efficient bcos it'll help develop their lats better, but not all ppl train to build muscle, they train for performance. Can u do muscle ups without the help of momentum?. And it's just the same with power cleans/jerk, u use momentum to be able to perform exercise in a controlled manner. Doing the kipping pullups is not just flopping or body, they still have control over the momentum their applying. The only thing slow control movement can help is in Bodybuilding, if u want to build muscle. But training for performance and athleticism, Bodybuilding type exercises are useless. Let's see a Bodybuilder perform crossfit/military type drills/exercises, we'll see how far they can get. Plus a Crossfit type training can be applied in the outside world better.
In my box we do strict, kipping, and butterfly. Try this WOD.
10 strict C2B
10 back squat 60% 1RM
20 kipping C2B
20 back squat 60% 1RM
30 butterfly C2B
30 back squat 60% 1RM
3 Rounds
I usually do not post a response to people like this because most of the time they do not understand. Regarding the pullups, if you were on the side of a cliff or on a branch would you try and strict pull yourself up? No of course not, it is not efficient. The kip is a natural humanoid movement, completely functional. Gymnasts have utilized the kip in their routines forever. The strict pullups are not bad just not as efficient when regards to the butterfly kip or a regular kip. Visit a box!
In a kipping pullup, the biceps and other muscles do not absorb as much energy in the eccentric phase which causes the body to swing forward, resulting in hyperextension of the shoulders; this allows the kinetic energy during the swing back to be used to complete the next repetition. The point is that since the biceps are not absorbing kinetic energy during the eccentric phase, the joint will absorb it during the swinging phase.You think force is energy, so there's no point in further discussion
Most people who troll on these vids do not even know the difference between hypertrophy training and strength training anyways. Ballistics!
@MarssMedia has a good answer below. But also could see this translate into everyday work/circumstances as its "more efficient" as Chris mentioned in the video. That's the way I understand them at least.
it's not just about volume it's about performing that volume in the least amount of time. and what harm is there in doing them as long as you do them properly ie keeping shoulder torque and the rib cage flat. and if it works your core that is a bonus. we do enough posterior chain work anyway with our lifts. because there is very little need to work your anterior chain because of our everyday lives sitting down at computers etc. if you want a core exercise try doing L sits rope climbs
I have. One was about 50 years old and a brazilian ju jitsu martial artist, and the other was probably a little older than 50 and was a gymnast. Both were very thin and probably not above 5'6''.
So many top crossfitters in this video....
We do do strict pull ups. We do weighted and strict pull ups during training. But for competition and timed events its a lot faster and efficient to do more for workouts where we have to do as many as possible.
Remember, the point of crossfit is to do as many reps as you possibly can.
I incorporate a decent amount of Crossfit training (before you say I don't have any strength, I can do a one arm pullup), and the thing I like about it is you can go to literal failure, because your reps are easier. What I'll do is regular pullups until I know I have three or four left in me, than I'll do eight or so of these pullups.
No need to be close-minded, bro.
Most people work out with the desire of getting stronger and or building muscle. Any movement that can be performed 30+ times is not efficiently making you stronger or building muscle. Kipping may be a useful tool for someone who is incapable of doing more than 1 or 2 strict pull ups, but once multiple kips can be performed in a row, it is my completely unprofessional opinion that that person should then graduate to an actual pull up to receive the most out of their workout.
Very well stated.
The guy does strict pullups at the very beginning of the vid. I would also hazard a guess that almost everybody featured in this video is stronger than you, as well as fitter. If not, I look forward to seeing your uploads.
Surely, you'll deliver. skeleton.jpg
hittman1412 its like you didnt watch the video OR read my comment.
These videos are super helpful for home crossfitters like me. Thank you
No arguement.You see this sought of thing all over the internet.Not just on youtube.
i like crossfit and i think it's fun but this is the only exercise i REFUSE to do. I don't care how long it takes me to do a routine with pull ups slowing me down, but to me the most efficient pull up is pull ups with proper form with no kip.....again i love crossfit i just think how they do pull ups is stupid
Romeo, I agree with you here. I understand that this is supposed to be more of a full body exercise with power coming your hips, but if I'm in a pull-up cage I want to work on my pull-up strength. There are plenty of other exercises to work the rest of the body.
shes one of the top crossfit athletes.
OK, maybe someone can answer this for me. Kipping/Butterfly is so efficient that there's no need in Crossfit for Chin-ups, Commando Pull-ups, One-arm Pull-ups, Towel Pull-ups, Wide-grip Pull-ups, Combo-grip Pull-ups, V Pull-ups, Plyo Pull-ups or Eccentric Pull-ups of any the aforementioned varieties? If it's designed for real-world applications, doesn't it happen in the real world where you may not be in ideal conditions where if you train with all the varieties I mentioned, you're more apt to find a way to handle the situation? Speed and time is one thing, but what if you're raising or lowering a rope with someone attached; speed is not wanted there. Or firefighters breaching a ceiling or wall; you're not going to have that shoulder-width grip to kip that you'd get with Towel Pull-ups. Address one or address all, because I'm curious.
+Edward Kotwica When he's talking about efficiency hes talking about energy efficiency. So this is mostly interesting to people wanting to perform well in crossfit wods. The wod is the competition side of crossfit. Beside that there both a strength and a skill part. where all these thing could be used.
This workout incorporates more of the body, balance, and cardio. It in no way replaces strict pull ups.
The people in this seminar are high level, even Olympic level athletes. I would think that they know enough about body mechanics to make sure that they have a stable shoulder position in a gymnastics style movement like a kipping or butterfly "pull up". I am L1 coach and work with a variety of athletes at different levels and strengths, kipping is not for everyone right away. If you were unaware of how to keep your shoulder in a stable position through out the movement you will break and repetitively you are susceptible to injury but at a high level of fitness both physically and mentally these are not dangerous.
In a competition, judging numbers is much easier than judging 'proper form'.
great teacher.
Cross fit, bodybuilding, powerlifting, strongmen, etc. it's a sport. If you want benefit functional workouts for health.
That's what I think
Its acceptable because it allows you to use correct form even after you don't have enough strength to do a regular pull up with perfect form. Its better to do 10 perfect push ups and then 10 more perfect girl push ups than it is to do 10 perfect pushups and 10 more with bad form.
Honestly you can get better results with half the weight with perfect form. It focuses on muscle groups and also keeps you from injuring yourself.
Do toques make you stronger? Or is he just cold
" torque is what creates force energy and is also what keeps joints stable" Well, firstly force is not a measure of energy. If you mean that torque is what creates force, then you are also mistaken here. Muscles generate the force which then causes a torque to be exerted on the lever arm (bones).
"torque is what creates force energy and is also what keeps joints stable." Once again, force is not a unit of energy and force is what causes torque, not the reverse.
If you can't do strict ones, do these to get you going. IF you really want to strengthen your back, do strict ones.
seriously wtf is this?
Hurrdurrr, 1998 born kid wants to lecture a man-beast? LOLOLOL. Hurrrrrr, "Yamamoto" douchelord
Why not just stick with what's been proven to work for centuries with the original pull up? nothing wrong with crossfit but don't cheat yourself out of a proper pull up smh
Haters! You do realize that the majority of elite crossfit athletes were former athletes of other sports including professional sports ranging from track/gymnastics to football/etc. it is impossible to complete a crossfit workout performing strict pull ups. I would venture to say that all crossfit terms do practice strict pull ups to build strength and I would guarantee that these guys can do way more strict pull ups unbroken then any one of you guys hating on this video. Try it before you
Butterfly kips, in fact, any kips in pullups. Scum of the earth. Cuts any benefit in half and will cause injuries. Wait, did I hear him say "not so efficient?" Holy crap, this is hilarious
Your lack of comprehension is what's hilarious.
Crossfit is an orthopaedic surgeons dream.
Look, you said you'd never seen anyone do it, so I just pointed out that some people can. The point is that kipping doesn't really do anything for you in terms of building strength or endurance -- it's just a means of doing more "reps" faster in a manner that allows people to use momentum instead of generating the energy solely in the arms and back. Kipping is bad for the shoulders too. Just be honest man, the only thing they're good for is optimizing speed and quantity in comps.
Look up the crossfit WOD Fran. That uses full body doing thrusters then you have to do pullups
I would love to learn from Spealler. Absolutely love it. What a legend.
The point is to win. Crossfit is about complete the workout before others do. In crossfit maybe you have to do 100 pull ups in less time possible...nobody cares if you can do a couple of them with heavy weight or how big and strong your back is. It's like in powerlifting: the goal is to bench the heaviest possible, so you try to make the shortest range of motion, you don't care about chest building. I personally do strict pull and chin ups most of the time, but that's not the point here. :)
i've watched a lot of crossfit videos and i can't remember one with people doing strict dead hang pull ups. also if i were hanging off the side of a building or a cliff i'd probably have no room to kick my legs forward to use my momentum to thrust myself upwards so i'd have no other choices other than to die or dead hang pull my entire body up to safety.
Kipping pullups aren't done just by themselves, theyre part of a bigger scale workout. The people at the gym that do pullups don't go do deadlifts, then something else, then straight to pullups with minimal rest either.
The point is speed and efficiency. This isn't bodybuilding. The goal isn't to develop back muscles therefore we're not focusing on the "squeeze" or time under tension you achieve from strict pullups.
Okay, so, what I want to know is... what exactly does this "kipping pull-up" achieve? Like, what does it do for your body? What benefit does it have?
What do they do for your body? They make you look like a fool, and give you an inefficient back workout. You'll probably snap some shit up too.
Whatever grip you're using (wide/close/underhand,etc) keep your form strict to work the back fully, and avoid injury.
I see a lot of people defending the kipping by saying it's more efficient or "what if you're dangling from a cliff..." but there's really only one purpose for kipping: to get a faster time to write on the board for their wods.
This is exactly my point. There is NO benefit. They are completely pointless. Efficient? Efficient in making you achieve going up and down faster, maybe. But definitely not more efficient in giving you a rockin' bod.
Crystal Lou lol 4 idiots confirming each others ignorance... no one that knows the answer replied and that is not ur fault. but still funny
Robert Lee Please do enlighten us and save us from our ignorance.
Crossfit emphasizes strict pull ups in the strength/skill portion of the programming. Kipping pull ups should only be used in WODs as it is more efficient. My strength training includes strict weighted pull ups for strength, and I work on my kip for technique only. Not as my main source of pull up training. There's a difference. Most of what you see on RUclips is WODs, not strength work. Just laying it out there for everyone.
What's the best pull up for chest?
+Gökhan chest to bar pull ups & muscle up
bench press
a pull up works your back and bicep muscles. For bodyweight, do STRICT pushups and dips fors chest
On 3:55 he starts to explain about elbow Position. But I didn't understand. Is it good or bad to put elbows back? Because he says it is good to stay Elbows Back, but on the practical explanation, he says 4:19 (BAD with elbows back), and 4:21 (Good with elbows in front).
I saw and re-saw the explanation, but maybe I got an English difficult here. Not my native language.
I Guess I got it now, it was one exercise, to keep elbows in tight, just to let people know how to end the movement, but when you are pulling your chest to the bar, you keep elbows back, and to end the movement is good to keep elbows in tight? Is that right?
+CrossFit® , right?
I cannot stand when people say that kipping pullups are "cheating" because you're swinging on a bar.The whole purpose of a kipping pullup is to get the maximum amount of pullups in a given time. Second of all you're not "swinging on a bar." Learning how to do the kip requires a lot of strength and it requires you to first master the standard pullup. You cannot do the kip efficiently without mastering the standard pull up first and mastering the kip takes a lot of practice
If you are using pull ups to translate your "Pull Power" development into something for real world/functional application there is nothing wrong with kipping pull ups IMO - though I see no use for butterfly pull ups personally. Strict form pull ups for 'bulk' are strictly for ego and mass as far as I'm concerned and your goal is to be big and beautiful go for it.
kipping pull ups fucked my shoulders up. its been 5 months and im still not where i was at when i injured myself. I used to be able to use 25lb weights in my pull ups. after the incident i couldnt even do 2. Im finally close to adding weight onto my pull ups but i will NEVER kip again.
Besides of coordination. So you have a variety of different movements, wich end in a fun workout, wich is butterfly pull up.
But in the end, i dont understand why wouldn't you try the workout if you truly want to say "this is worthless". You wont get killed, and believe me, it's going to be a challenge.
BUT it depends on your porposes, if you are a bodybuilder skip them. But if you ask me i found them fun and also nice for my muscles, endurance, some core and coordination.I also do strict
chris spealler : leonardo di caprio of crossfit
Been incorporating some kipping pullups in the gym, and yeah I get weird looks, but hey, I'm bettering my body!