Trolls here are doing what trolls do best: type first, think never. If you were watching the video, you'll notice that Matt Chan can easily do strict muscle ups. So, why the kip? The kip is a kinetic chain movement that allows you to rapidly link together muscle ups so, in competition, when you have to do 20 or 30, you can finish before the next guy. If you think about it, which you haven't because you're a troll, it's sort of like trying to tune your suspension and your engine before you enter a NASCAR race so that your car can have the competitive edge. And yes, you must still pull with your muscles to do a kipping muscle up. Like I said, the kip merely preserves some momentum so that you can rapidly reposition your body for the next rep. If you think you can do a kipping muscle up without pulling with your back, please post a video of yourself attempting it so that I can watch you break your neck.
"The kip is a kinetic chain movement that allows you to rapidly link together muscle ups so, in competition..." Perhaps. But this does not explain why kipping is the norm outside of competition.
STHENICS It doesn't explain why kipping is the norm outside of competition. Nor is kipping the norm outside of competition. If by "outside of competition" you mean at a CrossFit gym, you're always "in a competition" with your personal best there. Kipping muscle ups ARE a gymnastics movement. Consult any gymnastics book as reference. Muscle ups are not a scored movement in the realm of gymnastics... it's simply a way to get from the bottom of the rings to the top. If a kipping muscle up isn't a muscle up, then sprinting isn't running.
Just a hot tip from Australia...My wife is a physiotherapist and crossfit has had a big boom in the last 2-3 years and because of the poor technique and silly shit like those momentum muscle ups on the bar we have seen her business boom a lot of patients coming in with shoulder problems !!! Thanks crosshit your making us rich !!! keep it up !!! dont do strict form get injured and pay for physio we fukkin LOVE U GUYS !!!
Great tips! I can do 15 strict pull-ups, but ONLY one muscle up. Now I know what I've been doing wrong LOL. I am going to give them a try again this weekend and see how I do by following these techniques.
so the bar is harder to do MU on? and whats the point of the kip? just to make it easier? When i do muscle ups i try to use no momentum and strict form i can only do 6 like that, should i be trying to kip and get more reps?
I was able to do my first ring muscle ups not even a week and a half ago when doing 12.4. They were done utilizing the false-grip and a kip. I'm definitely eager to try them the way they're described in the video without the false-grip!
Thanks to this video I got my first ring muscle up while doing 12.4. I'm 6'2" 230lbs doing "no false grip" muscle ups. It's funny because I got bar muscle ups less than 30days ago.
(reply 1/3) Two factors: strength and the nature of Crossfit programming. First, you have to consider it as a progression to a strict muscle up because frankly, muscle ups are difficult. A strict muscle up is well out of the range of most people, especially when starting. It's the same principle with a kipping pull-up. When I started CF I could maybe do a 2-3 strict pull-ups but after a year of kipping as part of greater work-out regimen (which also saw massive gains on all lifting PRs)...
apparently you didn't watch the video. This is efficiency for those WODs that you have to complete multiple muscle ups per round. Kipping muscle up only come easy once you have the correct form down nearly perfectly and have enough strength to do a few strict muscle ups. and for the record Chris and Matt both did near strict muscle ups in this video. They are both just so damn strong for their size that they're pulling themselves up higher than what should be possible in performing strict ones.
Depends whether you are working out or competing. In competition you always seek the easiest way. When working out you want to work in the way that best develops the targeted muscle groups.
I think you'd be correct if referring to a beginner trying to do too much. But someone who has developed via progression, the abiltiy to do this, is probably going to be ok. One must ensure they are activating the corresponding muscle around the join in order to properly support it.
I just find it a little odd that he said to wrap your thumb around the bar or else you'll slip. But as a former gymnast, I found that wrapping my thumb around the bar 1. cuts you up real nice in the skin between your thumb and pointer finger and 2. it doesn't allow you to rotate your hands as much on the bar.
@TheJamer88 He said he wanted to get stronger for the heavier weight events but still be able to dominate the body weight stuff. He is definately my pick to win the CF games in 2012.
(reply 3/3) others. Due to nature of how it is programmed you will see circuits of 5 muscle ups in mix of maybe 5 rounds. Kipping allows you to complete these along with other lifts (oly or otherwise) and not blow out one portion of your body. Whether or not you "like" this type of regimen/workout is personal preference, but it's a reality for doing well and conserving strength. CF isn't strict oly or strict gymnastics. I've seen great results in my lifts and enjoy variance in workouts, so I CF.
The first muscle ups that he does, he does with pure strength no kipping at all. Thats hard man >.< Ok now you try do as many as he did in the video that way. Kipping may be easy-mode, but for beginners its ideal.
(reply 2/3) ...I can now crank out a dozen strict. You use your body as an aid to get to strict, even though you would never do a strict in CF competition (reason in next point). Second, Crossfit programming is built on “constantly varied, high intensity, functional movement." (if you care to read more -- en.wikipedia. org/wiki/CrossFit). It's in essence circuit training with Olympic lifts and gymnastics. There is an element of competition built into it, for individual and against...
Line in this video that says it all: "I'm lazy. I try to do as little work as possible." Late in the vid. So essentially, these guys would rather use momentum to do the work instead of, ya know, the actual muscles...
except kipping pullups are alot harder than strict because your body is doing more overall work and its much more intense. (by using head to toe muscles to create the kip)
I thought it was not accepted to swing your feet like that for a MU to count such as 12.4? I dont know but am trying to learn everything I can on my own. I cant afford the local gym so I have to rely on videos and me asking questions. But yes again thanks for the videos.
lol i can do a one arm chin as well. 50 dips is beast idk if i can even do that. work on explosive pullups, doesnt matter if u swing n shit just get as high as u can, do sets of 1. then start on top of the bar and come down as slow as u can. soon u will be able to do them. also remember u wont look even close to the videos, u will plop your chest on the bar when first learning
yeah dude you need to use false grip to go slow so that your palms are already on top of the rings/bar. the dude in the video says slow false grip muscle ups can't be done on a bar...which is totally incorrect. it's harder than a kipping bar muscle up, of course, but very possible.
@BTMS09 It was just an example of the size of athlete that usually gets called a "big guy" in demo vids, which is annoying because I'm a REAL big guy like the one in this video. Clearly over six foot & clearly two hundred lbs +.
For those who say momentum/kipping is cheating...where does that momentum stem from? You. It doesn't just appear. True, it is not optimal for developing muscle mass, but for doing more work faster (force x distance), this is the way to go.
Now how did I guess before the video that those muscle-ups were going to be absolute dogshit when they were performed by Chris Spealler and Crossfit? I must be psychic!
"cancels out conditioning movement" +No it doesn't, it proves it. The kip is more efficient (requires less energy to perform same work), so it allows you to do more work before reaching muscle failure. Thus, it allows you to stress your conditioning systems rather than just your strength systems. Please define "overall strength." If the only aspect of fitness you want to develop is strength, that's fine, just realize that's what you're doing.
yea thats a stupid comment. let me explain. with those lifts, clean snatch jerk, they are using their strength and explosiveness to create the momentum to move weights from a stationary spot. That goes the same for doing a non kip muscle up. you use your own bodys explosiveness and strength to create momentum and move your stationary body up to get you to the dip position. Unlike these Kipping muscle ups where you body is already moving when you go into the pullup position. no explosion/strength
a lot of people see as cheating though because in training you use these methods. Its just so much easier to do these than strict movement. example: pull ups with momentum you can do a lot more than if it is strict movement (normal) pull up. cbf explaining properly but its cheating yourself in training. i understand if its in a competition though
kipping ring muscle ups are easier than kipping bar muscle ups, no kip ring up are harder than no kip bar ups. you heard the "easier" from someone who is telling you to kip
That's because neither of those guys are me, and if you read my description, it clearly states why it's pixelated. How do I know your video is of you? I don't, close your trap now.
I am not impressed by the kipping pull ups or the kipping muscle ups. I would say using a kip or any sort of momentum would be a good learning tool to get the movement down but one is not really doing muscle ups until they can do it without a significant kip. And aside from cranking out a volume of reps for competition, why do the kipping muscle ups (aside from learning the move)?
gynmastics focus on form and ways to improve it because that is how you are judged whereas crossfit is way too lenient on form and that is where all injuries stem from.
A kipped movement is a conditioning movement. A strict movement is a strength movement. What about that don't you understand? If you want to eliminate conditioning movements from your strength and conditioning program (which is what CrossFit is), good luck to you.
thing is i've gained enough strength from practicing strict muscle ups that I could do them faster then you with your kip involved, the kip was created for gymnasts to use low output energy. so that cancels out conditioning movement theory. now i get the saving energy part, all I was saying is a dislike the kip and what it does, and I just think you would be an overall stronger cross-fitter provided you did proper muscle ups
A kip is a kip is a kip. This is not a muscle up except in cross-fit. The kip has athletic qualities and requires strength but please don't call them muscle ups.There is zero kipping in muscle-ups. If you want to change the criteria for what is a standard Gymnastic movement then change the name.
I'm always amazed how much more efficient these people get at destroying your shoulders, put more stress on the gleno-humeral ligaments, the anterior capsule of the shoulder and the rotator cuff by causing shoulder impingement. And all these poor people who don't have a clue about anatomy or biomechanics follow them like little puppies. BTW, these coaches have no clue about biomechanics either. Good luck to all of you in few years when you start experiencing all these problems. Cont...
geez you guys are being pretty rude to Kwyat Man, hes just expressing his own opinion, and its not going to affect yall so why be so pissy? Crossfit is about being efficient and doing the exercises as fast as you can, bc its a competition. Kwyat Man is trying to say that by doing these kips and practicing these "efficiency tips" that yall arent isolating the muscles that you should be and are instead using the whole body. He's right in his aspect, and so are you. so chill. geez
watching this for 14.4 today!! thanks, chris and matt!
Trolls here are doing what trolls do best: type first, think never. If you were watching the video, you'll notice that Matt Chan can easily do strict muscle ups. So, why the kip? The kip is a kinetic chain movement that allows you to rapidly link together muscle ups so, in competition, when you have to do 20 or 30, you can finish before the next guy. If you think about it, which you haven't because you're a troll, it's sort of like trying to tune your suspension and your engine before you enter a NASCAR race so that your car can have the competitive edge.
And yes, you must still pull with your muscles to do a kipping muscle up. Like I said, the kip merely preserves some momentum so that you can rapidly reposition your body for the next rep. If you think you can do a kipping muscle up without pulling with your back, please post a video of yourself attempting it so that I can watch you break your neck.
Everyone knows what their talking about on the Internet.
"The kip is a kinetic chain movement that allows you to rapidly link together muscle ups so, in competition..." Perhaps. But this does not explain why kipping is the norm outside of competition.
STHENICS It doesn't explain why kipping is the norm outside of competition. Nor is kipping the norm outside of competition. If by "outside of competition" you mean at a CrossFit gym, you're always "in a competition" with your personal best there.
Kipping muscle ups ARE a gymnastics movement. Consult any gymnastics book as reference. Muscle ups are not a scored movement in the realm of gymnastics... it's simply a way to get from the bottom of the rings to the top. If a kipping muscle up isn't a muscle up, then sprinting isn't running.
That's why crossfit is retarded. You don't even have to use proper form for an exercise to be counted
@@nate508 Please post a video of you doing strict muscle ups, thanks.
Really like the tip Chris gave about the different style of pull during the MU. I'll use this with my Coaching tips. Thanks guys
Just a hot tip from Australia...My wife is a physiotherapist and crossfit has had a big boom in the last 2-3 years and because of the poor technique and silly shit like those momentum muscle ups on the bar we have seen her business boom a lot of patients coming in with shoulder problems !!! Thanks crosshit your making us rich !!! keep it up !!! dont do strict form get injured and pay for physio we fukkin LOVE U GUYS !!!
good component part breakdowns. Good coaches always make it seem simple. Thanks for this guy.
Thanks Coach Spealler and Coach Chan. You two would know, for sure.
Thanks for the tips! I'm gonna start to pull higher and hopefully I'll get my first bar m-up soon!
Thank you for learning me how to do ! =D
Spealler is my role model! Do it for the little guys Chris!
Great tips! I can do 15 strict pull-ups, but ONLY one muscle up. Now I know what I've been doing wrong LOL. I am going to give them a try again this weekend and see how I do by following these techniques.
so the bar is harder to do MU on? and whats the point of the kip? just to make it easier?
When i do muscle ups i try to use no momentum and strict form i can only do 6 like that, should i be trying to kip and get more reps?
This video was helpful. Someone just donated rings to my gym and I'm determined to knock out these muscle ups.
I’m still trying to learn the kip. I can do 5 consecutive strict ring muscle ups but cannot figure out how to kip without a false grip.
I was able to do my first ring muscle ups not even a week and a half ago when doing 12.4. They were done utilizing the false-grip and a kip. I'm definitely eager to try them the way they're described in the video without the false-grip!
It took 4 months of failed attempts and studying this video but today I finally got my first muscle up.
Thanks to this video I got my first ring muscle up while doing 12.4. I'm 6'2" 230lbs doing "no false grip" muscle ups. It's funny because I got bar muscle ups less than 30days ago.
i have a bar muscle up but never been able to get the ring muscle up!! the bar so much easier
This is like a coach dream team right here.
Where can I get the shoes Matt is wearning??? Can't find that exact style anywhere..
Those look like Nano 2.0s
Whenever Chris explains something, I'm always like: "Ohhhhh I get it now..."
Funny to go back and see Bartow and Austin and them years ago. Young'ns
(reply 1/3) Two factors: strength and the nature of Crossfit programming. First, you have to consider it as a progression to a strict muscle up because frankly, muscle ups are difficult. A strict muscle up is well out of the range of most people, especially when starting. It's the same principle with a kipping pull-up. When I started CF I could maybe do a 2-3 strict pull-ups but after a year of kipping as part of greater work-out regimen (which also saw massive gains on all lifting PRs)...
What about range of motion and strict muscle ups? Or are you just going for time?
Thank you for this video
apparently you didn't watch the video. This is efficiency for those WODs that you have to complete multiple muscle ups per round. Kipping muscle up only come easy once you have the correct form down nearly perfectly and have enough strength to do a few strict muscle ups. and for the record Chris and Matt both did near strict muscle ups in this video. They are both just so damn strong for their size that they're pulling themselves up higher than what should be possible in performing strict ones.
I'm a part of the muscle up club... FINALLY! It's not as easy as they make it look (IMO).
FINALLY a REAL big guy with useful tip for MUs. I h8 when the "big man"is 6'4 but 160lbs in these vids...
Depends whether you are working out or competing. In competition you always seek the easiest way. When working out you want to work in the way that best develops the targeted muscle groups.
I think you'd be correct if referring to a beginner trying to do too much. But someone who has developed via progression, the abiltiy to do this, is probably going to be ok. One must ensure they are activating the corresponding muscle around the join in order to properly support it.
I just find it a little odd that he said to wrap your thumb around the bar or else you'll slip. But as a former gymnast, I found that wrapping my thumb around the bar 1. cuts you up real nice in the skin between your thumb and pointer finger and 2. it doesn't allow you to rotate your hands as much on the bar.
can they do this without swinging?
@TheJamer88 He said he wanted to get stronger for the heavier weight events but still be able to dominate the body weight stuff. He is definately my pick to win the CF games in 2012.
O-o good stuff! Chris is getting beefy
Thanks!
So, when an olympic weightlifter uses momentum to execute a jerk, instead of doing a strict press, is that cheating?
(reply 3/3) others. Due to nature of how it is programmed you will see circuits of 5 muscle ups in mix of maybe 5 rounds. Kipping allows you to complete these along with other lifts (oly or otherwise) and not blow out one portion of your body. Whether or not you "like" this type of regimen/workout is personal preference, but it's a reality for doing well and conserving strength. CF isn't strict oly or strict gymnastics. I've seen great results in my lifts and enjoy variance in workouts, so I CF.
It took me one day to do a muscle up :D
Cuz you did it wrong dude
Holy shit, well that guy in your link is superhuman. Thanks for showing me what is possible. Are you able to do them?
i'm amazed with how their is always a way to make something more efficient. what next?
The first muscle ups that he does, he does with pure strength no kipping at all. Thats hard man >.<
Ok now you try do as many as he did in the video that way. Kipping may be easy-mode, but for beginners its ideal.
first thing he does in the video is a strict muscle up....cant understand where the hate is coming from.
LOL I'm using that one!
Can you provide some guidance via youtube as to a proper way to do muscled ups? I'm sure some of us would be greatful...
@chrapladm Those "push-away" MUs certainly look pretty similar to a up-rise or "one of its variations," agreed.
@wisdometernal who's 6'4 160?
dammn i saw a lot of elite athletes in there
got my first muscle ups yesterday. i bragged to my gf, my roommate and my mother. sadly mom got the first call
(reply 2/3) ...I can now crank out a dozen strict. You use your body as an aid to get to strict, even though you would never do a strict in CF competition (reason in next point). Second, Crossfit programming is built on “constantly varied, high intensity, functional movement." (if you care to read more -- en.wikipedia. org/wiki/CrossFit). It's in essence circuit training with Olympic lifts and gymnastics. There is an element of competition built into it, for individual and against...
biggest tip: keep your head warm. Winter hat mandatory.
LOL, this is hilarious
Line in this video that says it all: "I'm lazy. I try to do as little work as possible." Late in the vid. So essentially, these guys would rather use momentum to do the work instead of, ya know, the actual muscles...
except kipping pullups are alot harder than strict because your body is doing more overall work and its much more intense. (by using head to toe muscles to create the kip)
Add more of a kip so you don't have to rely on the arm overy thing as much, then take the kip away gradually.
I thought it was not accepted to swing your feet like that for a MU to count such as 12.4?
I dont know but am trying to learn everything I can on my own. I cant afford the local gym so I have to rely on videos and me asking questions.
But yes again thanks for the videos.
A swinging muscle up in the gymnastics world is called a front uprise. That is basically what this video is showing.
lol i can do a one arm chin as well. 50 dips is beast idk if i can even do that. work on explosive pullups, doesnt matter if u swing n shit just get as high as u can, do sets of 1. then start on top of the bar and come down as slow as u can. soon u will be able to do them. also remember u wont look even close to the videos, u will plop your chest on the bar when first learning
man his voice sounds just like Munky from Korn, like identical
yeah dude you need to use false grip to go slow so that your palms are already on top of the rings/bar. the dude in the video says slow false grip muscle ups can't be done on a bar...which is totally incorrect. it's harder than a kipping bar muscle up, of course, but very possible.
lol i can do it dead hang no swing on the rings and bar very slowly. gotta learn that false grip and l-sit
I never tried it on the ring but I know I can do it
I'd go gay for Matt Chan. Dude is awesome.
@BTMS09 It was just an example of the size of athlete that usually gets called a "big guy" in demo vids, which is annoying because I'm a REAL big guy like the one in this video. Clearly over six foot & clearly two hundred lbs +.
For those who say momentum/kipping is cheating...where does that momentum stem from? You. It doesn't just appear. True, it is not optimal for developing muscle mass, but for doing more work faster (force x distance), this is the way to go.
@chrapladm In fact, it almost looks identical to this "no rep" example - ruclips.net/video/lMJYvetSHvk/видео.html#t=3m10s
Now how did I guess before the video that those muscle-ups were going to be absolute dogshit when they were performed by Chris Spealler and Crossfit? I must be psychic!
his name is on the racks - holy poop
Just a tip, zoom out the camera, can´t see what he is doing on the rings.
"cancels out conditioning movement" +No it doesn't, it proves it. The kip is more efficient (requires less energy to perform same work), so it allows you to do more work before reaching muscle failure. Thus, it allows you to stress your conditioning systems rather than just your strength systems. Please define "overall strength." If the only aspect of fitness you want to develop is strength, that's fine, just realize that's what you're doing.
yea thats a stupid comment. let me explain. with those lifts, clean snatch jerk, they are using their strength and explosiveness to create the momentum to move weights from a stationary spot. That goes the same for doing a non kip muscle up. you use your own bodys explosiveness and strength to create momentum and move your stationary body up to get you to the dip position. Unlike these Kipping muscle ups where you body is already moving when you go into the pullup position. no explosion/strength
my friend can do it slow motion without swing but he can't do it without false grip. Notice in the video they only swing with normal grip.
you realize he does strict muscle ups at the beginning, right
Every time I see a crossfit workout I just wonder how painful their joints will be in the future.
the pull up bar says speal on it lol
wow, speal got big
If only people knew the difference between fast twitch and slow twitch they would understand the purpose of the two variations of muscle ups.
oah i get it now! just gotta kip my way through every exercise and i will be able to do it!
Kip the dip!
a lot of people see as cheating though because in training you use these methods. Its just so much easier to do these than strict movement. example: pull ups with momentum you can do a lot more than if it is strict movement (normal) pull up. cbf explaining properly but its cheating yourself in training. i understand if its in a competition though
kipping ring muscle ups are easier than kipping bar muscle ups, no kip ring up are harder than no kip bar ups. you heard the "easier" from someone who is telling you to kip
That's because neither of those guys are me, and if you read my description, it clearly states why it's pixelated. How do I know your video is of you? I don't, close your trap now.
I am not impressed by the kipping pull ups or the kipping muscle ups. I would say using a kip or any sort of momentum would be a good learning tool to get the movement down but one is not really doing muscle ups until they can do it without a significant kip.
And aside from cranking out a volume of reps for competition, why do the kipping muscle ups (aside from learning the move)?
Yah I thought it was considered an uprise?
Muscles activity in Crossfit muscle up: 0
Show us how it's done.
Try to do one like that see if you can
@chrapladm here to help
it should, benching 405 takes much more work.
basically kip everything :p
also just looks like hell on your shoulders.
gynmastics focus on form and ways to improve it because that is how you are judged whereas crossfit is way too lenient on form and that is where all injuries stem from.
A kipped movement is a conditioning movement. A strict movement is a strength movement. What about that don't you understand? If you want to eliminate conditioning movements from your strength and conditioning program (which is what CrossFit is), good luck to you.
ive never seen a muscle up done so easily...
Kip king lol
thing is i've gained enough strength from practicing strict muscle ups that I could do them faster then you with your kip involved, the kip was created for gymnasts to use low output energy. so that cancels out conditioning movement theory. now i get the saving energy part, all I was saying is a dislike the kip and what it does, and I just think you would be an overall stronger cross-fitter provided you did proper muscle ups
please cite your source. not saying you're wrong, but you should provide some evidence. Thank you sir.
Little kids do this kind of stuff all the time.
spealler is the shit
Someone needs to tell you its a youtube comment not a fucking university essay.
A kip is a kip is a kip. This is not a muscle up except in cross-fit. The kip has athletic qualities and requires strength but please don't call them muscle ups.There is zero kipping in muscle-ups. If you want to change the criteria for what is a standard Gymnastic movement then change the name.
I'm always amazed how much more efficient these people get at destroying your shoulders, put more stress on the gleno-humeral ligaments, the anterior capsule of the shoulder and the rotator cuff by causing shoulder impingement. And all these poor people who don't have a clue about anatomy or biomechanics follow them like little puppies. BTW, these coaches have no clue about biomechanics either. Good luck to all of you in few years when you start experiencing all these problems. Cont...
you can do anything with a swing, there are videos of people doing it slow with a normal grip. see /watch?v=QuHz5mGEH1w
geez you guys are being pretty rude to Kwyat Man, hes just expressing his own opinion, and its not going to affect yall so why be so pissy? Crossfit is about being efficient and doing the exercises as fast as you can, bc its a competition. Kwyat Man is trying to say that by doing these kips and practicing these "efficiency tips" that yall arent isolating the muscles that you should be and are instead using the whole body. He's right in his aspect, and so are you. so chill. geez