I'm not even a builder, but was immediately impressed by the professionalism and great images and commentary. If I were still in a space where I needed this info, I would definitely let everyone know about this site.
@stairbuilding You seem like a very knowledgeable person. I have a question that no one seems to have an answer for. The IBC 2018 code, which the city I live in uses, says the following: 1009.7.4 Dimensional uniformity. Stair tread and risers shall be of uniform size and shape. The tolerance between the largest and smallest riser height or between the largest and smallest tread depth shall not exceed 3/8 inch (9.5 mm) in any flight of stairs. Does this 3/8 inch variation mean no more than 3/8 inch difference for each step height? Meaning each step in a set of say 4 steps can have up to a 3/8 inch variation in height from each other. -OR- That Ina complete set of say 4 steps there can be no more than 3/8 inch variation in height for the while set of 4 as a single unit. I am asking because I seriously need to know. Thank you in advance for any help.
At 3:00 , "Tread Front Bearing On Riser Bearing on Tread Back Bearing on Stringer", you could make a very strong setup if you moved those screws to the bottom of the tread back, pointed straight up into the riser. The back of the tread would hang from the screws in their strongest and most stable loading, pullout.
I think running the screws in both directions would have their advantages and disadvantages. I think the best method would be to use quarter inch crown staples that would penetrate at least 1/2 inch into the lumber behind the lumber you're stapling and you could always use of adhesive to make it a little stronger.
Great info. Thanks. I assume if you are adding hard wood flooring over these steps the same process applies? Riser first, then treads… PL glue and a few nails or screws…. Thanks.
Question : Sir, would you put the sap side up or down (for outdoor stairs )? And if sap up, how do we prevent the thread from becoming concave over time and have water puddle ?
Building my first outdoor staircases. Doing 5/4, and 4 stringers with the middle stringers spaced to the a average persons straddle. And stringers ending at a landing frame. Things rock solid.
Question floor Stairbuilding. For exterior stairs (ie deck), if the riser board is installed first, then the construction would not be in a 'shingle type' fashion (Water/debris accumulation at the riser/tread intersection). Is there a preferred method to install risers first in an exterior application ? Perhaps leaving a 1/16" gap between the riser/tread, or slightly 'slant' the treads 1% toward the bottom of each step? Is there a difference between 'pervious [composite decking] vs [impervious concrete steps]? In many videos I see builders using a 'square' or 'right angle device' which would represent 90%, thus producing a 'flat' step rather than a sloped one.
I like to install riser first and have gaps when using decking or construction standard lumber. I like an 1/8 inch gap, but follow manufactures instructions first and level or flat steps should work when using decking with gaps.
This whole video is something that people rarely think about or understand. I always install treads first indoors because it locks the treads in more securely. I don't care about risers. They aren't necessary. They are primarily cosmetic, and do not experience anywhere near as much force as treads. If I'm going to use them, I may as well use them to lock the treads in extra tight. Exterior stairs treads should always have a slope. Pervious materials like concrete always slope down (usually 1/8" per tread). I've never seen an architect specify a level concrete tread. Professionals always slope them to drain water (anywhere that gets rain). Exterior wood steps are different though. Remember how I called risers "cosmetic"? You shouldn't use them outside. You can, if you want to trap moisture and debris or hide what's below, but they are really a poor design choice outside. Forgo risers outside, and if you really want them, install them first. That's opposite of what I do inside, and the reason is that there is always a gap where risers meet the treads (especially outside where treated wood shrinks). You want that. You want water that gets in that gap to drain out, not clog up or drain down to your tread, where a tread slope may not be enough to overcome water tension and moisture and debris may get trapped under the riser and on top of the tread. The first two places to rot are horizontal surfaces and ground contact areas. Guard your horizontal treads with a slight slope (each tread can actually slope up to create a safer stair if there is no riser blocking drainage) and put deck protector asphalt/bitumen underlayment strips on all the horizontal surfaces that aren't visually exposed (on the "tread" of your stringers)
Is there a benefit to having the riser on top of the tread for exterior stairs? The thinking being that you could prevent water from getting in the seam? Thanks in advance.
It would depend upon the type of stairway, but for the most part I think you bring up a good point. Try to avoid creating water traps whenever possible.
I'm re-doing some stairs with Trex (composite) and I'm going to put the riser on top of the tread to hide a rough edge. I just want clean finished edges showing
I always put risers on top of treads EXCEPT on exterior stairs. Putting risers on top of treads outside increases the likelihood of water setting on the back of your tread, where the riser impedes drainage. Even with a sloped tread, water can wick up under the riser just like the capillary action of water wicks up a paper towel against gravity. It's best to have no risers outside or to have a half inch gap between risers and treads so debris does not clog and rot in a small gap
I’ve have use a 3rd stringer ONLY when the width of my stair is over 6 ft. And when using 1” oak treads and 3/4 thick oak or poplar risers. The key is use glue blocks underneath where the tread meet the riser in that corner
That's just ignorant. The same rules for floor joists apply to stairs. Just because you can cone up with ways to under build it doesn't mean you should. There's a reason you'll never see a hundred year old staircase built like that.
I'm repairing an exterior staircase and the stairs are sloped slightly from left to right making it difficult to measure the riser resulting in a gap sometimes.
cut the riser about 1/8 short then place the tread in place , position the riser tight to the tread and fasten the riser i to the stringers then glue the wood and keep the process in that sequence fasten the riser to the treads with screws or nails asin the video,
Another consideration in the positioning of risers and treads is dirt. Indoors or outdoors, dirt will collect in the narrow crevices between the boards. That dirt can become unsightly and quite difficult to remove. The problem is compounded outdoors where wind and wildlife ensure that tiny seeds are forever on the move. Clogged up crevices impede water drainage which is never desirable on treads especially during a season when water may freeze. On wood decking I prefer a gap between boards that will remain wide enough to accept a putty knife. A pressure hose is not always adequate for removing Mother Nature's debris.
Our builder (20 years ago), put osb treads and risers on with the treads first, the essentially wedging in the risers. They are crazy squeaky. Some of the risers aren't even cut straight, so over the years the wave in them have made the treads wave as well, making it all squeak more. Ugh. We were just going to put those tread covers since we took off the carpet on them but now I'm wondering if they always be will stay warped even if we remove and replace the risers to be straight. Would it be better to just replace all of the treads and risers with real wood?
I can't provide you with an answer that will solve your problems, but if it was me, I would remove and replace the treads and risers with stronger materials, if that is the problem. Keep in mind that thicker materials might require you to rebuild the stairway and cut new stringers.
If I don't have risers on my deck stairs but need them, do I need to take out the tread first? My wife is opening a daycare and I need to install risers.
@@stairbuilding yeah, I just had this happen on a project. The wood was case hardened and would pinch my blade on every cut. The middle of a 7 foot long set of stairs ended up with a 3/16 sag.
@@scottwright388 i had to do a lot of relief cuts just to not get my blade pinched. Do you mean to say that if I strategically do relief cuts first, then copy my template, that I can avoid a curve in the final stringer?
@@SnootchieBootchies27 no, I was simply giving a tip to avoid binding. In my opinion, if you trace 10 stringers, and cut them out, they all will be a little different...the fact that your saw binds, proves that lumber has a mind of it's own...so to speak.
I am poor. One of my bedroom steps has sunk due to something breaking inside. I assume it's the stringer or whatever you call the inside part. If I send you a picture of it can you please advise me how to fix it?
Let's see if I can answer your question, if you're asking why a 2 x 8 splits in half, then that could be caused from small defects in the lumber getting larger as it dries out or have some type of movement while people are using the stairs.
Fooron was thinking that the 2 by was resawn into thinner stock to make risers. But they just have a bit ripped off the edge bringing the 8 inches down to whatever the riser height is.
If I put my risers on first (which I would prefer), then my tread overhang will be more than 1.25 inches. If I put my treads on first, this approach will get it within the 1.25 inches.
@@stairbuilding I was planning to put my treads on first. But I need to trim my treads down from 11.5 inches regardless of which I put on first. Which approach is better? It seems putting the riser on last will help secure the tread. But putting the tread on last seems to make it a cleaner look. Since I have to trim my treads down anyway... which approach should I do?
I could, I would suggest having at least 5 inches if possible of unnotched stringer width for the entire length of the stringer for stairs up to 16 feet long for most residential stairs.
Yeah that's funny...I personally don't recommend staples for attaching the risers...in fact, I stopped a production line from using them, many years ago. They would be sufficient for the stair illustrated, but I still wouldn't use them. I prefer screws, but through testing, I found a fastener that didn't slow production, and you would literally have to shred the riser to remove it.
@@tundrawhisperer4821 adding glue blocks to the inside corner. Adds more strength and avoid squeaks once glue gets set. So do not walk on the steps for 24 hours. You’ll get some great results. Yes. Small lengths of poplar stock 3/4 x 3x4 x 6” long. With glue. After you’re done installing every riser and tread. Be hind the stair of from the back side. Where the upper part of the riser meets the bottom part of the tread. 2 inches behind the nosing. In that area. There is where you add those glue blocks
Risers always installed first , glued and screwed . Treads glued and screwed to all contact points !! Each riser is screwed to the tread through the back before setting the tread over it . 42 years building custom homes and remodeling , never sqeaky stairs !!!
Awesome, I started full time in 1978 and used hot dipped nails and never had a call back. That's probably because nobody could hold me liable as a tract stair man or stair boy, or stair young man :)
I'm not even a builder, but was immediately impressed by the professionalism and great images and commentary. If I were still in a space where I needed this info, I would definitely let everyone know about this site.
Great to hear.
@stairbuilding You seem like a very knowledgeable person. I have a question that no one seems to have an answer for.
The IBC 2018 code, which the city I live in uses, says the following:
1009.7.4 Dimensional uniformity. Stair tread and risers shall be of uniform size and shape. The tolerance between the largest and smallest riser height or between the largest and smallest tread depth shall not exceed 3/8 inch (9.5 mm) in any flight of stairs.
Does this 3/8 inch variation mean no more than 3/8 inch difference for each step height? Meaning each step in a set of say 4 steps can have up to a 3/8 inch variation in height from each other.
-OR-
That Ina complete set of say 4 steps there can be no more than 3/8 inch variation in height for the while set of 4 as a single unit.
I am asking because I seriously need to know.
Thank you in advance for any help.
At 3:00 , "Tread Front Bearing On Riser Bearing on Tread Back Bearing on Stringer", you could make a very strong setup if you moved those screws to the bottom of the tread back, pointed straight up into the riser. The back of the tread would hang from the screws in their strongest and most stable loading, pullout.
I think running the screws in both directions would have their advantages and disadvantages. I think the best method would be to use quarter inch crown staples that would penetrate at least 1/2 inch into the lumber behind the lumber you're stapling and you could always use of adhesive to make it a little stronger.
Great info. Thanks. I assume if you are adding hard wood flooring over these steps the same process applies? Riser first, then treads… PL glue and a few nails or screws…. Thanks.
It will depend on the materials or shape of them, but most of the time, the riser goes on first so the tread can butt up to it for a nice finish.
Just what I’ve been looking to see. Thanks!
Glad to help!
You seem to be getting a lot of 👍 on all your vids. They are very helpful.
Thanks and keep learning.
Question : Sir, would you put the sap side up or down (for outdoor stairs )? And if sap up, how do we prevent the thread from becoming concave over time and have water puddle ?
Both sides can have sap.
Does the riser add any strength? I’m thinking of using 1/2” plywood for the riser and 2x12 treads in a garage attic staircase.
Yes, risers add strength to stringers and steps.
Building my first outdoor staircases. Doing 5/4, and 4 stringers with the middle stringers spaced to the a average persons straddle. And stringers ending at a landing frame. Things rock solid.
Excellent explanation and graphics
Glad you liked it!
Could you please comment on pros or cons of having the first step level with the floor of the house...indoor to garage ?
If the step is level with the floor then won't be a step. Maybe re phrase the question.
Question floor Stairbuilding. For exterior stairs (ie deck), if the riser board is installed first, then the construction would not be in a 'shingle type' fashion (Water/debris accumulation at the riser/tread intersection). Is there a preferred method to install risers first in an exterior application ?
Perhaps leaving a 1/16" gap between the riser/tread, or slightly 'slant' the treads 1% toward the bottom of each step? Is there a difference between 'pervious [composite decking] vs [impervious concrete steps]?
In many videos I see builders using a 'square' or 'right angle device' which would represent 90%, thus producing a 'flat' step rather than a sloped one.
I like to install riser first and have gaps when using decking or construction standard lumber. I like an 1/8 inch gap, but follow manufactures instructions first and level or flat steps should work when using decking with gaps.
This whole video is something that people rarely think about or understand. I always install treads first indoors because it locks the treads in more securely. I don't care about risers. They aren't necessary. They are primarily cosmetic, and do not experience anywhere near as much force as treads. If I'm going to use them, I may as well use them to lock the treads in extra tight.
Exterior stairs treads should always have a slope. Pervious materials like concrete always slope down (usually 1/8" per tread). I've never seen an architect specify a level concrete tread. Professionals always slope them to drain water (anywhere that gets rain).
Exterior wood steps are different though. Remember how I called risers "cosmetic"? You shouldn't use them outside. You can, if you want to trap moisture and debris or hide what's below, but they are really a poor design choice outside. Forgo risers outside, and if you really want them, install them first. That's opposite of what I do inside, and the reason is that there is always a gap where risers meet the treads (especially outside where treated wood shrinks). You want that. You want water that gets in that gap to drain out, not clog up or drain down to your tread, where a tread slope may not be enough to overcome water tension and moisture and debris may get trapped under the riser and on top of the tread.
The first two places to rot are horizontal surfaces and ground contact areas. Guard your horizontal treads with a slight slope (each tread can actually slope up to create a safer stair if there is no riser blocking drainage) and put deck protector asphalt/bitumen underlayment strips on all the horizontal surfaces that aren't visually exposed (on the "tread" of your stringers)
Is there a benefit to having the riser on top of the tread for exterior stairs? The thinking being that you could prevent water from getting in the seam? Thanks in advance.
It would depend upon the type of stairway, but for the most part I think you bring up a good point. Try to avoid creating water traps whenever possible.
I'm re-doing some stairs with Trex (composite) and I'm going to put the riser on top of the tread to hide a rough edge. I just want clean finished edges showing
I always put risers on top of treads EXCEPT on exterior stairs. Putting risers on top of treads outside increases the likelihood of water setting on the back of your tread, where the riser impedes drainage. Even with a sloped tread, water can wick up under the riser just like the capillary action of water wicks up a paper towel against gravity.
It's best to have no risers outside or to have a half inch gap between risers and treads so debris does not clog and rot in a small gap
I’ve have use a 3rd stringer ONLY when the width of my stair is over 6 ft. And when using 1” oak treads and 3/4 thick oak or poplar risers. The key is use glue blocks underneath where the tread meet the riser in that corner
Six-foot sounds like could be a bit much.
@@stairbuilding I’ve built stairs no more than 5 risers about 8’ wide. For comercial buildings
That's just ignorant. The same rules for floor joists apply to stairs. Just because you can cone up with ways to under build it doesn't mean you should. There's a reason you'll never see a hundred year old staircase built like that.
@@stairbuilding I've built them in the pass in some cases
@@onetwothree4148 that's your opinion I can understand that.
I'm repairing an exterior staircase and the stairs are sloped slightly from left to right making it difficult to measure the riser resulting in a gap sometimes.
cut the riser about 1/8 short then place the tread in place , position the riser tight to the tread and fasten the riser i to the stringers then glue
the wood and keep the process in that sequence fasten the riser to the treads with screws or nails asin the video,
.good explanation..thanks 🤙
Glad it helped
I always use flooring adhesive!
Another consideration in the positioning of risers and treads is dirt. Indoors or outdoors, dirt will collect in the narrow crevices between the boards. That dirt can become unsightly and quite difficult to remove. The problem is compounded outdoors where wind and wildlife ensure that tiny seeds are forever on the move. Clogged up crevices impede water drainage which is never desirable on treads especially during a season when water may freeze. On wood decking I prefer a gap between boards that will remain wide enough to accept a putty knife. A pressure hose is not always adequate for removing Mother Nature's debris.
Great tips and thanks for sharing.
If you install riser 1st you'll have a true 11" run, if you install tread 1st your riser width will make your run/tread shorter 🙂
Im tread riser always on a closed staircase unless its an open staircase and i have to mitre the skirt then im riser tread
Uuuuhhhhhhh...., what?
Our builder (20 years ago), put osb treads and risers on with the treads first, the essentially wedging in the risers. They are crazy squeaky. Some of the risers aren't even cut straight, so over the years the wave in them have made the treads wave as well, making it all squeak more. Ugh. We were just going to put those tread covers since we took off the carpet on them but now I'm wondering if they always be will stay warped even if we remove and replace the risers to be straight. Would it be better to just replace all of the treads and risers with real wood?
I can't provide you with an answer that will solve your problems, but if it was me, I would remove and replace the treads and risers with stronger materials, if that is the problem. Keep in mind that thicker materials might require you to rebuild the stairway and cut new stringers.
I would never build stairs with osb. I don't care how popular it is.
Has anyone done a mitre cut where the riser and step tread meets for oak stairs? I’m having trouble
Email me some pictures, if you can wait a few weeks for a video.
If I don't have risers on my deck stairs but need them, do I need to take out the tread first? My wife is opening a daycare and I need to install risers.
Not if you can install them without removing treads or if it creates other safety problems.
Hi! What width/ depth should the treads be to meet todays regulations please?
Is it possible to just add risers to the back of stair treads? What should the threads depth be once risers are in?
But what if you had brick steps and wanted to refit with hardwood using your method but I wouldn't have access from behind.
If you use your first stringer as a template to cut your others, you generally eliminate most of the crowning issues.
That's a good idea and keep in mind that lumber can curve and change shape when cutting, even if you used a straight pattern.
@@stairbuilding yeah, I just had this happen on a project. The wood was case hardened and would pinch my blade on every cut. The middle of a 7 foot long set of stairs ended up with a 3/16 sag.
@@SnootchieBootchies27 you have to make a couple, growing in length, relief cuts before your first line cut.
@@scottwright388 i had to do a lot of relief cuts just to not get my blade pinched. Do you mean to say that if I strategically do relief cuts first, then copy my template, that I can avoid a curve in the final stringer?
@@SnootchieBootchies27 no, I was simply giving a tip to avoid binding. In my opinion, if you trace 10 stringers, and cut them out, they all will be a little different...the fact that your saw binds, proves that lumber has a mind of it's own...so to speak.
I am poor. One of my bedroom steps has sunk due to something breaking inside. I assume it's the stringer or whatever you call the inside part. If I send you a picture of it can you please advise me how to fix it?
Yes and you can get our email address at our website.
Will do!
Why would the 2 x 8, split in half be used for the riser? What difference would the thickness make?
Let's see if I can answer your question, if you're asking why a 2 x 8 splits in half, then that could be caused from small defects in the lumber getting larger as it dries out or have some type of movement while people are using the stairs.
Fooron was thinking that the 2 by was resawn into thinner stock to make risers. But they just have a bit ripped off the edge bringing the 8 inches down to whatever the riser height is.
Dado the riser and rabbit the thread thats the best way in my opinion.
I thought of that but if there's a shock load it will crack the thin-walled dado cut.
I always frame my horses 12" centers. Even then over time my stairs still squeak over time.
Treads go on last because of the required nosing required
If I put my risers on first (which I would prefer), then my tread overhang will be more than 1.25 inches. If I put my treads on first, this approach will get it within the 1.25 inches.
That is normally how it works. Let me know if you had a question.
@@stairbuilding I was planning to put my treads on first. But I need to trim my treads down from 11.5 inches regardless of which I put on first. Which approach is better? It seems putting the riser on last will help secure the tread. But putting the tread on last seems to make it a cleaner look. Since I have to trim my treads down anyway... which approach should I do?
4:33 No stair case has ever been built this way.
Wouldn’t the last method with thicker material result in deeper cuts, weakening the stringers?
I could, I would suggest having at least 5 inches if possible of unnotched stringer width for the entire length of the stringer for stairs up to 16 feet long for most residential stairs.
The fact you had to specify not using a hand stapler made me laugh!
Yes, that might be obvious to some, but not to all:)
Yeah that's funny...I personally don't recommend staples for attaching the risers...in fact, I stopped a production line from using them, many years ago. They would be sufficient for the stair illustrated, but I still wouldn't use them. I prefer screws, but through testing, I found a fastener that didn't slow production, and you would literally have to shred the riser to remove it.
USE GLUE TOO!
Must definitely. And if you’re gonna use screws on make sure to pre drill that. To a movie the wood splitting
@@GGarcia7111 huh? Missed that last part on what you were saying.
@@tundrawhisperer4821 about the glue blocks???
@@tundrawhisperer4821 adding glue blocks to the inside corner. Adds more strength and avoid squeaks once glue gets set. So do not walk on the steps for 24 hours. You’ll get some great results. Yes. Small lengths of poplar stock 3/4 x 3x4 x 6” long. With glue. After you’re done installing every riser and tread.
Be hind the stair of from the back side. Where the upper part of the riser meets the bottom part of the tread. 2 inches behind the nosing. In that area. There is where you add those glue blocks
just add glue..in the back of the tread..noscrews.
Risers always installed first , glued and screwed .
Treads glued and screwed to all contact points !!
Each riser is screwed to the tread through the back before setting the tread over it .
42 years building custom homes and remodeling , never sqeaky stairs !!!
Awesome, I started full time in 1978 and used hot dipped nails and never had a call back. That's probably because nobody could hold me liable as a tract stair man or stair boy, or stair young man :)
Never seen anybody using plywood as a tread! Really?
Yes, built over a thousand of them with plywood.
Happens all the time. Especially if it gets covered with other materials like vinyl or carpet.
I’ve always used 3/4 plywood in carpet and vinyl installations some people use 1x8 and rip them to height but you will run a risk of the 1x8 splitting
You are looking for problems. to solve here.