I fudged my math up at the beginning and said 210 seconds for killing with hook but that’s only with Shoulder The Burden. And bleed out time is 240 seconds. Don’t do chemo and unscripted videos kids.
Thrill is next on the chopping block. I always say: make the game fun again. Reward chases, fresh hooks, and let matchmaking reflect that. Stop focusing on Kills and Escapes-that’s the root of the issue. They can add systems and perks, but as long as Kills and Escapes remain the focus, nothing will change. It’ll only get worse. No fun allowed with the current design philosophy.
The other problem is that they are balancing the game with perks and not basekit changes. If someone has to run 2 or more perks to "counter" a crappy system then that's bad design. The system needs to be changed instead of adding bandaid perks. Like Borrowed Time or DS
Agreed with both the above comments. I have almost 2k hours, most of it on survivor (And get a lot of crap for it). But I and most players I know really just wish the game would be balanced for fun, instead of being balanced to be competitively “fair”. Half the time im salty on surv, is not because I lost, but because the mechanics I’m dealing with are just plain annoying, frustrating, and unfun. Same thing on killer. Getting gen rushed is unfun, and unfair.
@@stevenobrien7686 And the thing too is that it's not even really "gen rushing" most of the time (I played a lot of killer before I stopped altogether a while back). It's just that the survivors that aren't being chased don't have much else to do other than gens. Adding extra objectives, like getting parts or something for them to bring back to a gen might help slow it down a little and give them something else to do when they aren't being chased
That's the Tru3 argument. But despite the good intent, the flaw is that no one (except a content creator) plays assym horror to scare/run. They play to kill/win. You will never make Call of Duty a game about damage over kills/last man standing. At it's core, that's the point. DbD is no different.
Imo I think the devs are trying to push survivors into completing more side objectives like chests and totems. The increase to chest opening speeds from 10-8 seconds. The dracula perks involving 1 perk that protects totems and chests and another that allows you to close chests and see auras near them. The buff to thrill of the hunt. The buff to a ton of chest related perks like pharmacy and ace in the hole to offer rarer items. Seems to me like the devs are seeing that a third of their in game interactables aren't being used and are considered a waste of time and are trying to find a way to make them more promient
BHVR 5 years ago: Consistently nerfs various unhealthy play styles in order to combat these. Does not offer a fun alternative and keeps over buffing / over nerfing various perks etc. BHVR now: Consistently nerfs various unhealthy play styles in order to combat these. Does not offer a fun alternative and keeps over buffing / over nerfing various perks etc.
Behavior is actively trying to make their own game lose players because if they keep over nerfing killers and killer perks, it would result in no killer players and would replicate all the other asymmetric games that have shut down because of long queues
@Timothee_Chalamet_CMBYN They aren't against camping Btw camping is a vital strategy, especially at endgame They only added anti camp to negate face camping (not proxy camping( Besides on their website it states camping is not a reportable offense
We at BHVR hear you. In next Mid-Chapter update, We're introducing anti-slugging mechanic. If 2 survivors are on the ground they both get Basekit Unbreakable, this effect can happen infinite numbers of times per match. On top of that, We're nerfing Gen-Regression even more. Pain res is going to 5% regression and It deactivates when survivor dies. Look forward to patch notes for more information. Please don't forget to vote for Labour of Love award :).
Don’t forget the new change to counter killers slugging “indefinitely”: Killers have 8 total chances to down survivors. If they down more than 8 times entity automatically picks up the Survivor with the Endurance status effect from the ground
*Slugging becomes meta* BHVR: "We're excited to introduce a new passive ability for survivors, Unlimited Unbreakable! We've observed that slugging has become a prevalent strategy, and in response, we're adding a basekit feature that allows survivors a fair opportunity to counter it. This change aims to foster a more balanced and engaging experience for everyone in the game."
@@Timothee_Chalamet_CMBYNnope. You kiddies have it too easy. I love how you glossed over the boon exponential/boiled over meta that FORCED the first slugging meta. Take your dumbass outta here
quiet kills has also been saying this for quite a while, saying that if you slug survivors cant even use 90% of their perks. hes really put me onto the method 😭
I’ve mostly reached this conclusion myself, but it still depends on the killer. Slugging is brutal for many killers and saves you a ton of time while also counterplaying several strong survivor perks. I think that the healthiest thing to do is incentivize hooking. For example, basekit BBQ or a huge buff that extends the aura read. More perks like devour hope that do have counterplay but give a reason to hook and leave. Etc. killers WILL find the optimal play style and for many killers at present hooking is a huge detriment.
Basekit corrupt, when you spawn into a trial, the three furthest gens are blocked for 1 minute even if you hook someone, gives killers a chance to explore the map and reach people
Lmao, what is that BBQ bs, pathetic Watch this - after each fresh survivor hook, killer blocks all generators for 30 seconds and gain a one minute powerful pop kick which regress total (not current) Gen progress by 65%. Each hook on different survivor, (when one survivor not hooked twice in the row) provides the 20% pain resonanse effect and give killer aura of most farther surivovr from him for 10 seconds
I haven't played DbD in three months, the new DLC doesn't interest me and the killer has a lot of problems. And this problem right now where people are just slugging instead of hooking it's going to get even worse
Same, 5 months here. I just lost interest in the game because it simply isn't fun anymore. And the devs don't give a shit they just keep releasing cosmetics and releasing more chapters which just further bloats down the game and makes it harder for newer players, despite lots of outcry and BEGGING of them to fix the longstanding problems with the game. They really just want more money.
The last fun chapter was chucky in my opinion. The newer killers have different parts of older killers mixed up into one confusing kit! They are running out of ideas😢
Solid balancing could make the game immortal, even without new licences at this point. They have so many. I hope they overhaul so many things wrong with this game one day, to make the game immortal.
@@Myrrmoasta What in your opinion is "solid balancing" in assymetrical game like this? Dbd has too many factors to call it as "solid balancig". Playing both sides teaches it very quickly
i don't know man, my three favourite killers and three favourite survivors are all original: Artist, singularity and dredge Yui, nea and yun-jin I love to see licenses, but their best designs are all original.
Survivors will moan no matter how you play. Play fair for 12 hooks and lose they will say ur bad and to get better. Tunnel and camp they will tell you to get better and to uninstall and if you slug they will say the same thing also😂
After we have received reports of excessive slugging, we have decided to remove the killers ability to down survivors in order to improve the survivor experience.
Slugging is, and has been for a long time now, a free win against solo q gamers. I refuse to do it because it's mind-numbingly boring, even if it's optimal. You said it yourself, DBD at it's sweatiest level is extremely unfun and I feel like hard slugging fits that description perfectly.
Thank you, someone finally says it. I’ve played killer for thousands of hours since 2017 and I refuse to do that for the exact same reason you just gave. Shid is hella boring. I honestly love to engage in as many chases as possible no matter how sweaty the survivors are. That’s the most fun part as killer to me personally.
Exactly I agree with you. If you want even longer killer queues because survivors don’t want to spend 3 minutes on the ground then go for it. Otherwise relax. Have some fun. It’s a game.
So it seems like the biggest problem in DbD is the difference in the mindset. The competitive mindset and the casual mindset. There is no information in the game about whether you will play against a strong, sweaty SWF, or a soloQ, OR EVEN a SWF but with a relaxed mindset, talking some crap on Discord and not focusing on the match with 100% attention. I really hate DbD in moments like this - when I play with a casual mindset against sweaty playstyles (whether against killers or survivors) and the only solution at that moment is to become part of the problem - to start the game with a sweaty mindset
@@MassEffectFan113 What are you on about? Scott Jund plays fair 99% of his games. Why did you mention these 3? We could started with Otzdarva, the most popular content creator. But have you ever considered that they feel forced to play this way because they play too long and according to great MMR system they are probably in top (although I don't know anything about this funny MMR anymore)? Don't you blame Choy for slugging which for me is with the same shelf of playstyles? Weird comment from you. Even if people imitate them - they do have their own brains don't they? I've played against sweaty normal players more times than against sweaty streamers and you probably too
The counter to Shoulder the Burden without slugging, is to camp the survivor on hook and force hook trades. Shoulder the Burden hard counters tunneling by itself, because each hook state can be spread out, but the perk also gives exposed so you can down the survivor going for the unhook instantly with a basic attack, which is why camping is so effective. If BHVR removed the exposed status effect from Shoulder the Burden, then it would be the strongest survivor perk in the game, which would singlehandedly kill tunneling. Camping would be reduced too, as time on hook can already be extended by 30 seconds (reassurance), but combined with Shoulder the Burden, you can trade hook states with survivors on death hook, which means tunneling would be completely obsolete. As a survivor player, this would be amazing. As a killer player, it'd force players to run A or S tier killers to keep up. Every killer in the game without serious map presence and lethality would be terrible. It would turn into Snowball meta.
Tunnel one survivor out? -> OTR/DS/DH/STB, bodyblocks, Background Player into flashlight/pallet/(bugged and/or) potentially uncounterable flashbang save -> you get punished Camp? -> anti-camp mechanic during both hook stages -> you get punished Proxy-camp? -> buffed hook stage timer (60 -> 70 seconds), maybe even Reassurance -> you get punished Spread hooks and "pressure"? -> detrimental, takes too long, gens will fly, Deliverance is possible, aggressive bodyblocking/DS and flashlight etc. saves still possible -> you get punished Endgame Build? -> not enough payoff, those perk slots would have potentially made much more difference in the early to mid game -> you get punished Patrol gens? -> Regression perks have been nerfed into the ground, you need downs fast, otherwise -> you get punished Defend a 3-gen? -> Regression event limit, survivors will win the long game if they play correctly, especially with boons; you'll have to commit and they'll finish the last gen -> you get punished
I've yet to see any killer go for a full slug right out the gate, but I've definitely noticed more multi-person slugs in my games recently. The entire hook system needs an overhaul in my opinion. Just being able to stomp survivors into a cage in the first 2v8 and hopping straight into another chase felt so good. The whole process of hooking is not only damaging to the killer's game, but it disrupts the natural flow of gameplay.
@@ZacharyS-us8st I never said anything about removing hooks entirely, I just said it felt good not having to deal with the process. I'm not a game dev - it shouldn't be the community's job to figure this shit out for them, but something about the system needs to change because at the moment it just kind of feels rough and dated imo.
Shoulder the Burden is a seriously powerful perk. I was watching a swf purposely let their member go 2nd hook to gen rush, and then they'd save their friend's 2nd hook from tunneling. It's insanely powerful!
@DaPerfecto57 Especially with the add-ons that make survivors Blinded while slip streamed and the one that makes them start the trial slip streamed. I also use the perks Knock Out, Sloppy Butcher, Death Bound, and Fear Monger
At this point. There are so many survivor mains on the game that the game will just become free friendly to survivor mains where they will have a lot of fun and the killer mains will find the game incredibly boring and stressful and go to another game. But you can't say this because you upset a lot of survivor mains.
The problem with slugging from survivors perspective is exactly the same as with new Hex: Thrill - it's just stupidly boring. Staying on the ground for 3 minutes when there is absolutely nothing you can do is just pure bullshit, same as staying on a totem for over 2 minutes. At this point we are getting on the ground where doing a generator might be an exciting experience, because you atleast can have skill checks. And if killer un Merci Storm or Opression? Damn, so much fun! What I'm talking about is not the winning or losing the game but actually enjoying it - slugging (and doing new hexes) is just an extremely bullshit and it will hurt the game A LOT more in long term than just lowering killer winrate could ever do.
Solid balancing could make the game immortal, even without new licences at this point. They have so many. I hope they overhaul so many things wrong with this game one day, to make the game unkillable
They are terrible at game design and balance so this will never happen. They just got extremely lucky with their licenses. Even their first myers dlc came out unbalanced lmfao.
Your 210 figure is wrong. It's 140 seconds because you instantly die on your third hook. I agree with the general sentiment but that number is just wrong.
I wonder what the result would be if a big enough percentage of the killer community somehow organized a month or two time out. I'd think if the choices are sit in a queue most of your playtime as a survivor or jump sides and be miserable as a killer, it might hurt the numbers to a point BHVR decides they need to actually balance the game.
I never will see myself playing that way. I will slug, when it is opportunistically viable or necessary. Like when I forego a hook in order to make it to a key generator or when I get an immediate follow-up chase on an injured target. But going for a full 4-men slug straight out of the gate is just toxic nonsense. Saying that it is not meant to be toxic is like kicking someone in the gut and then saying, that it isn’t personal. “Well, isn’t that reassuring to know! Really improves my 4 minutes on the ground!”
Slugging is mathematically better because its practically the same state where you are in a place where you can't move, and you are doing absolutely nothing. Healing from being slugged takes 32 seconds by yourself, and then requiring another survivor to come and pick you up, and then heal you for another 16 seconds. The potential to healing from being slugged to healthy is requiring another player, and then being healed for 32 seconds. Hooking is mathematicaly worse to do as killer because you spend time hooking them which is like somewhere around 9 seconds without survivors wiggling out, and then hooking them, however, the survivor then gets to sit there for more than two minutes without death, and then gets absolutely no time taken to be unhooked, then endurance to attempt to guarantee a somewhat safe recovery, and since endurance is only potentially useful in that situation, usually the survivors take a maximum of 16 seconds to heal from being hooked. Its about snowball, and how much time you can make survivors waste
there's a lot of "buts" though. slugging only works if it goes all the way to death, and if they crawl and get picked up, you don't get a notification, unlike an unhook. and you are assuming survivors pick their teammates at the very last second of each stage with perfect timing and no waste, which isn't the case at all.
The issue with slugging is that you have no consolidated progress until the survivor is dead and it takes longer. Whether the survivor is 1 minute away from bleeding out or 3 minutes away from bleeding out and gets picked up, the timer continues from there once they get downed again. Total time for bleeding out is 4 minutes (240 seconds). Whereas, when a survivor first goes from being hooked, unhooked and then hooked again, that can be somewhere between 1-70 seconds of time reduced off the survivor's life by reaching the second hook stage. After being hooked twice, the timer does not continue from first hook stage at 30 seconds in like it does when bleeding out. Total time for survivor to die on first hook is 2 minutes, 20 seconds (140 seconds). Hooks gives more progress; slugging gives more pressure in the short-term. Problem with slugging is that after 30.5 seconds of a survivor recovering on the ground, survivor is at the maximum 95% recovery progress, which means the time it takes for a survivor to heal the downed survivor is 1.5 seconds; basically the same time as if they were unhooking that survivor. Worse yet, if a survivor heals them earlier, this gives them additional lives if you're not camping their bodies. 240 / 30.5 = 7 lives. A survivor can get up to 95% recovery progress 7 times per match as opposed to no hook stage (1), 1 hook stage (2), and 2 hook stages (3) equalling 3 lives. Overall, slugging is only better when there are multiple survivors slugged all in the same location, as the short-term pressure can enable a win if all 4 survivors get downed without unbreakable. Or, against survivors who run multiple second-chance perks around unhooks; then yes, slugging is definitely better.
@@ralsei8642 I am honestly surprised Penti hasn't been nerfed or at least tokens swapped so gen speed is like 2nd token or something. I wouldn't put it past them.
Shoulder the burden gives solo-que teamates a fair chance against tunneling, but when used with SWF, it basically lowers each killers strength by one tier.
It is crazy how much easier matches as M1 killers become if you just don't hook anyone until the end. Even against the toughest lobbies on the harder maps you can still squeeze out a 2k in the endgame if you protect your downs enough. I've been having success with this strategy on Myers. Sucks that this is what the game could be headed towards, but it is admittedly a lot more fun as Killer; not having to hook gives you a lot more free time and agency in the match.
This is the whole reason why i see Michael Myers as the only killer that can play the game the way it was intended by still killing survivors in a way that denies them the use of all their perks. Like you said in the video, some, or most, survivor perks are based around being hooked, not to mention there is counterplay that exists when hooking survivors like them flash blinding you when you pickup or dropping a pallet on you when you pick up, sabotage of hooks and the other perks that help with that, all of that is easily avoided through slugging, and it's a very efficient way of maintaining constant map pressure, since survivors on the ground don't contribute to their escape it's better to just leave them there. Not to mention, hooking people takes up valuable time, if i were to play hillbilly i would just down someone and then go for the next wasting as little time as possible, it's just more efficient. But back to Michael Myers, because he has access to Tombstone he can instantly remove someone from the game, never having a chance to use any of their perks, not only does it deny any hook based perks it also denies some exhaustion perks like dead hard since you don't have to worry about them being injured (unless you did hit them for some reason). I've instant killed survivors at 5 gens and the way it changes the balance shift of the game is insane, if you start slugging on top of that it's just a recipe for disaster for the survivors and i'm all for as many advantages i can get.
@@pegeta Sadakos condemned playstyle takes awhile for you to get it going and isn't as consistent as getting kills with tombstone. You can always surprise a survivor and get an easy kill. but with sadako you really have to work for it and it isn't always guaranteed.
i 100% agree i started using doctor as my slug killer with these 4 perks: knockout, sloppy butcher, surge, and franklin’s. 1. his power is good for chase so survivors would have to pre drop pallets and vault more often 2. perks are really good especially its m1 based 3. counters dh, ds, we’ll make it, resurgence, reassurance, etc. 4. even with unbreakable, wglv, boon expo, mft, the killer can down the survivor that has the boon perk, snuff it, and go for others all while gens are not being done/regressing 5. if survivors also run power struggle, flip flop, boil over, breakout theres no use against a slugging build when you bring a wiggle build
This reminds me of the state TCM is right now. With the victims plowing down all new family players, making them not want to play. The survivor community seems to think all asym games have to be Friday the 13th. But let me tell you, if you get rid of killers/family players, you just get stuck with a bunch of sweaty SWFs not willing to play the other side. Even on TCM, they wont play in a group of 3 family members. It seems the communities just want Rush week on all asyms, making them play the other side forcefully.
Right now? Victims have been doing that to Family since the first month when they all realized they could just rush the objective and they'll have the exit open within 2 min. And I always stress in these sort of arguments, where people bring up the 'force everyone to play all sides' idea, that a good chunk of players -- like myself -- will just straight up leave if we're forced to play the role we don't enjoy. I don't like Survivor roles in Asym games. I didn't want to be the Marines in Predator, I didn't want to be the hunters in Evolve. I don't want to be Victims in TCM, Survivors in DBD, Campers in F13 -- I don't enjoy that role, I don't want to play that role, and if you make it so I HAVE to play it, I'm going to play something else instead. End of story. People get so hunt up on the tribalism that they fail to realize some 'Killer' mains just don't enjoy the gameplay of the otherside, nothing else to it.
Unironically. It easier if you get hooked because it activates so many perks. You can heal 3x faster just from unhooking and reset your entire team, can't do that when healing off ground.
@@uyeah1234 I get camping sucks and everything but common sense tells you that should not be the case. Imagine how difficult it is to understand that for new players.
Shoulder is only good in swf. So far, every time I've seen it in public lobby it just meant free kill. Also didn't see many people running it in random lobbies. The few that I've seen were used so poorly that it vas an advantage for killer instead of disadvantage.
I mean it needs to be. Honestly. You shouldn’t have to run counterforce every single match because the one Nemmy, or Demo shaman build you run into will be impossible to win against otherwise. There’s other issues on killer side for sure, but Thrill is way overtuned. Again it’s something that doesn’t help against organized SWFs, but is completely unfair against casual survivors.
@@pegeta I genuinely despise the fact swf has such a huge advantage over casual for that reason. For a swf sure it's doable but otherwise it's a 100 percent stomp.
@@sandunderman9865 Then get ready for more slugging then...until that gets nerfed as well. Ngl it feels like the devs are nerfing everything for killer players to force everyone to play the same killers in order to keep up with good players. The big problem here as always is the disparity between a SWF and a solo queue team
I played a match where the first person I downed and tried to hook they had boil over and their teammate was body blocking and since they had boil over I couldn’t stay still , so I slugged because I knew trying to get hooks would just not work
YES. Yes to all of this. Finally a youtuber who knows what's up. Not like the supposed big names who drop vids immediately when thrill gets buffed and hexes become viable for a couple days and having bhvr conform that they'll nerf it back. Jfc
You aren't the crazy guy on this one bit. I've been realizing this strategy after playing with full Blindness builds and started to experiment with how it could work on someone like Pig where I won't have to worry about survivors taking off RBTs if I just leave them on the ground. They can see where all the boxes are without a green addon so I'm making sure they're staying put until the timer goes active and the game can really begin for them. Their teammates can just let them bleed out and eventually be put on a time crunch or spend precious time searching for them around the map. They certainly have to make a choice, and it's better slowdown than by using the RBTs and hooking normally.
me that start to slug when they nerf pain res and pop in june im happy that now more killer are slugging annoy when i play survivor but happy that slugging is becoming more popular
Survivors will get salty at the killer for this playstyle yet they never realize that BHVR is the one instigating this. Don't dare bring this up anywhere because power hungry admins will ban you without a second thought.
Nah - the meta will shift and then killers will complain when survivors start rocking anti-slug builds. Realistically, slugging should really only be used strategically in the same manners as tunneling and camping. There's a time and place, but you can't get upset when you use it as your main strat and it gets countered.
Slugging is not more effective or efficient than hooking; The only killer you can even argue that for, is singo. Every single other killer performs better if you actually hook the survs. Tell me you're bottom MMR, without explicitly saying so...
@@Timothee_Chalamet_CMBYN Killers cry at approx the same rate as survs; The only difference is you get 4 survs per match but only 1 killer. What side is this video from again? Oh right: It's a killer crying. What are you doing? Oh right: Killer crying. Point proven.
"survivors will get salty" is just a bs some people need to keep telling themselves. I'm a killer main and yet i'd rather drop the game than start playing this way. I'm salty as a killer that game is pushing me to the field where i need to feel like a rotten worm to maintain higher winstreak
As as survivor I wish I can have an action button to bleed out faster when I’m slugged. It could activate with like 20-30 seconds of inactivity. At least with a hook I can be out of the game in less than a min. Being slugged is the most boring thing that can happen.
Still keep up with you & a few other DBD youtubers but I quit playing over a year ago & I'm so much happier for it. I'd love an update to bring me back in, but I doubt it atp. Seems like BHVR only ever does a worse job than the year before
Literally the only thing that stops a lot of killers from doing this is their personal moral compass. It is simply not very viable anymore to win in sweaty 1v4 to play for hooks. Because you get punished for doing so. Playing DbD atm is just pain in the ass because it is all just disgusting sweatfest all around. (as for argument why are you still playing dbd, guess what, I almost don´t, this shit pushed me into at least temporary break in favor of singleplayers, with my friend being the only reason I still play 1-2 matches ocassionaly).
Same really, with so many serious issues with the game, ridiculously inconsistent map RNG, map offerings, downright unfair stuff and so much jank, it is honestly rarely a good experience, and even more rare that is it a good experience for both sides. Also when the main and usually only objective is literally the same as when the game was released almost a decade ago, it does start to become stale..
I stopped playing a couple months back, but i was already running just slugging bulids on Nemi and Alien and had a much better win rate. And when i was playing survivor at least 1 in 6 killers was running a slugging bulid, but i had a blast with Mettle of Man and Tenacity.
Gor as long as I remember, bhvr has made the easy choice rather than a creative choice. These eas choices have left higher level survivors at a higher advantage than ever before. They need to start incentivising hooks rather than taking an easy way out and giving unbreakable to survivors.
my theory: first "fix" behavior is gonna do, basekit unbreakable. Next "fix"? instead of dying outright you'll just loose a hookstate when bleeding out and it'll reset the timer. Next? you get a charge of unbreakable basekit for each hookstate. Also, personally expecting that if/when unbreakable becomes basekit (since they've already been talking about that for a while) unbreakable will be buffed to instead put you into the healthy/uninjured state upon getting up from the dying state.
@@magical571 honestly agreed, like I mentioned unbreakable being basekit has been talked about for a while and I don't think that's without reason. I just get the feeling behavior will not actually end up balancing it out well.
Why is it whenever the killers have an effective strategy for actually KILLING survivors, it gets nerfed, but survivors get to keep their bullshit for months and months without BHVR batting an eye? Literally just “fun has been detected, fun has been nerfed”
I remember back when they first released the emblem system. It had it's flaws, in ways it didn't work well for killers but still was a decent way of scoring games...then they made it more competitive because comp players cried that everyone could pip up just by playing well and being active in a game, meaning killers were rewarded for giving a good match, and survivors were rewarded for doing the same. They *needed* there to be someone to "lose" the match for no other reason than to ensure that someone would be made to feel bad, especially after having scummy players/teams dog pile on them for not getting an absolute 4k/4escape. The problem has always been the comp players and the devs listening to them as if there was money to be made at the end of that broken bridge they mistook for a rainbow (*for those who don't get it, they took a long walk off a short bridge in search of a pot of gold at the end of rainbow which also resembles a bridge). Dead by daylight is a game that honestly does have a low skill ceiling, to the point that it makes these mediocre pvp gamers feel like rock stars and like they are actually ready for competitive big leagues. This low skill ceiling has caused many casual players to have exceedingly big egos, rarely earned or deserved, which relies entirely on them understanding how to "win" by abusing mechanics than through any sort of real skill.
Yeah, I've been on an extended break from this game. I get on and find my mood souring way too quickly. I might mostly play survivor side, but I totally get why killers are having to play a certain way, even before this perk.
I would agree that slugging is definitely the superior option when the survivors are grouped up, i.e.: going for saves or healing each other. But when you have no idea where the other survivors are after downing one of them, it's usually best to go for a hook against a SWF. Against a non-SWF, you can run Knock Out or Hex: The Third Seal, but these perks are significantly weaker vs a coordinated team on Discord. In my opinion, slugging is most powerful when multiple survivors are within close proximity of one another, since it can be easier to force repeated downs when they're downed next to each other. Whereas, hooking when survivors are on top of each other forces the killer to waste time separating the survivors on two or more different hooks when instead, the killer could simply sit there and patrol the area to ensure no one is going for the save. Either by hook or by bleeding out the survivors will die eventually, so slugging is generally less effort and less risk too.
Just got back into dbd to finish the last section of archives. I stopped for a month or a month and a half. Nearly every match now is a slugfest. I don't know what changed, but knock-out perk is really common now as no one can see any downed survivor.
I play on Aussie server's, so we get a few different countries as I believe it's an OCE server. I play at the most sweaty hours (11pm till 4-6am). As survivor I've only had 1 game where the killer was actually going for the 4 person slug off the bat. Only other times have been lucky snowballs in the endgame e.g. where mistakes are made, and 2 people are slugged near a hooked surv. I've played a couple games where I went for the 4 surv slug from the start, and I gotta say after a couple games I got bored and went back to hooks again. But I definitely noticed that I had much more success slugging. I just got really bored because I think I like the chaos of 100s of 2nd chances hahaha. I don't really experience the slugging in my surv games, but if what I'm hearing isn't hugely exaggerated, then I hope BHVR do something soon, that isn't a give up on ground option (I definitely don't want my solo q teammates to have that awful option) or some base kit unbreakable that's really quick, especially if UB and exponential can be stacked with it. I wish good luck to BHVR with this, please don't screw it up because of whinger's, please make it a good balance
If this goes unadressed it might become as bad as the gen kick meta, imagine you're a new player and in your first game after being downed you get to have the spectacular gameplay of laying on the ground holding down 1 button and maybe moving a bit, if that starts to happen on a regular basis not only will it turn away new players but many existing ones as well, let's not forget that in the experiment the dc percentage was significantly higher, carniveris acknowledged that it's not a very fun playstyle to go against, otz has talked about it becoming a potential issue, if this meta becomes common it won't just be unhealthy for the game but outright lethal, sure you may get easier games now but when all the casual players decide the game is too miserable in that state all you'll be left with are the most elite swfs fully prepared to make you experience miserable in return not to mention that unlike the gen kick meta since it's not making both sides have less fun it means that killer que times will go down the drain, a lot of exclusively killer mains like to say that if the game becomes to unfun for killers then swfs will have nobody left to play with, but this also works in reverse I'm not an experienced game dev by any means but even I can see what needs to be done, simply reward getting hookstages, ad some kind of good benefit for hook stages, but I think it would also be a good idea to remove the benefit of a survivor's hook stages once they are killed, that discourages tunneling someone out along with making unwinnable games a little more bearable(maybe even give a slight advantage if there are 2 survivors left but still a lot of gens left as well) not to mention shoulder the burden wouldn't be as effective, then once hooking is more viable you can start making slugging unviable, it's a similar design philosophy to doom but I haven't played doom so I'll mention guilty gear strive instead, ggs rewards you with tension(your meter) for playing aggressive while not engaging with the opposing fighter for too long will actually empty out your meter, make it so if multiple survivors are left on the ground for more then a minute and the killer hasn't picked up any of them they can all pick themselves up, is it harsh, yes just like losing all your meter in a game with roman cancels, an unfun playstyle should punish you, adding those conditions also means that if you're playing oni or something and you get a legendary play with 4 downs you just have to pick someone up and the effect won't trigger, now if you get 3 downs but can't find the last survivor then you still get some insane pressure with 3 people on hook(reminder that my previous suggestions makes that extra rewarding with 3 extra hook states) and the survivor gets a chance to either prepare for a hatch play or try and somehow turn this around, regardless the game needs a significant overhaul if it aims to survive until the fnaf chapter
By design of the game survivors have much more downtime in which they aren’t effectively playing a videogame. That’s also why it’s usually easier to stream as survivor. Just add an option for a slugged/hooked survivor to play something else. Like tetris, puzzle game or a platformer. If multiple survivors are incapacitated they might join a “Ultimate chicken horse”-like game together. See that way you won’t have to stress about crawling around, trying to unhook yourself or hitting crazy skillchecks. Win-win!
My suspicion for why survivors in your matches didn't do well against a slugging approach was that they were simply not used to it, so I think hooking would be more reliable in this hypothetical where survivors adjusted to a slugging meta. Did they pick up the survivor when you were close by and naturally make it easier to hit them, acting as if there were a OTR equivalent to help recover a survivor up when course they more likely than not did not actually have such a perk? Did they leave a survivor on the ground for too long even though they saw the recovery progress was high for a long time? Even with that main slugging perk, Knock Out, remember in this hypothetical survivors would have adjusted to the meta, they would pay more attention to the last whereabouts of their teammates and have a more educated guess as to where they got downed, and by that same token the downed survivor would know where to start crawling towards. There are gen benefiting perks, even if nerfed, that still provide enough value to justify picking up survivors and walking them to hooks. I play in solo queue against sweaty killers pretty frequently, and its not that common to have survivors go for the save, whatever way that would be, and for good reason as if you mess up a save after following for a while, that's a lot of gen progress lost for nothing in exchange. So altogether hooking is the better option here. Let's of course look at the numbers here where we put slightly more aggravating, but still somewhat realistic factors for the hooking approaches. Traditional tunneling: - 2 70s hook stages = 140 - 2 ~10s extensions due to OTR = ~20 - 1 ~15s extensions due to DS Let's just even add 1 Reassurance - 30s 140 + 20 + 15 + 30 = 205s Sure, there are survivor perks that benefit off unhooking, albeit not many of them are really meta, but there is pretty much 2 or so hook/gen perks that a killer would need agains sweaty survivors, so hook perks on the killer side are more meta and therefore more frequent than hook perks on the survivor side, so killers benefit generally benefit more than survivors off hooking in that sense. Slugging: - 240s With a similar note with the previous approach, in an adjusted meta where survivors bring more anti-slugging perks, UB already brings great value here, and with WGLF, I would say it's actually better for survivors value comparison wise. A rough intuition makes it where people essentially have at least 5 times to get downed before they die off. And just to reiterate, this is an adjusted meta, where survivors would be more timely in their rescues to avoid unnecessary idle time on the ground.
even though i feel what you are saying, a "good" perk has a 35% escape rate on nightlight. example: reassurance, number 7th highest escape rate perk, 1.59% pick rate, 37.28% escape rate. Right now, shoulder the burden sits at 2.51% pick rate (which is high, 36th based on pick rate), and number 9 by escape rate (36,91%). And if slugging is so good, then one would expect tenacity and unbreakable to have higher win rates, but they don't they sit at 31-32% escape rate, even though they are picked quite a bit (2% and 10% respectively). How would you go about nerfing slugging, realistically? because just buffing hooking isn't realistic. hooking is already decent, i understand that it feels survivor sided against good teams, but just look at the overal numbers and really as i mentioned, top perks sit around 35% escape rate or less. to mention a few: Off the record: 35% decisive strike: 35% Resurgence: 35% Sprint burst: 34% Hope: 34% Resilience: 33% if you just buff hooking, you won't stop slugging necesarily (personal preference will always exist) and you will probably achieve the same miserable experience for survivors just in a different fashion. And i feel like i have to mention: i prefer playing killer, i understand the battered wife syndrome with this game, how you get 5 swfs in a row finishing the match extra fast and teabagging at the gate only to see nothing but meta and BNPs in the post game lobby. and you feel so frustrated, you are not enjoying, yet you feel compeled to play. i've been there believe me. But i've been playing survivor enough to get the full picture. how will you adress the solo queue survivor experience? and as much as i love your channel, something tells me that what you want is a killer buff, not just a fix in any form. let¿s say that they double the bleed out timer, or they implmenet something i've seen suggested before in the form of a basekit unbreakable + tenacity (minus the faster recovery speed) if there are two or more people on the ground. would you be ok with that? it would probably fix slugging, but not via buffing killers. So what really is your complain focused on? is it that you want hooking to be easier? ok, but then we would need something like base kit off the record and not just the 5 seconds of endurance off the hook. or triple or even quadruple the aoe to count as anti-camp (because as it is right now you have to stand right on top of the hook for it to count. get yourself a central hook and goddam you got a perfect hill to check a three gen and camp a survivor all at once)} As killer, i feel like gens either fly by inmediately, or they never get done. it really comes down to how fast either side can start snowballing. if the survivors can get a central gen plus another one before you get a down or more, you are doomed because they won't be on death hook and they won't give you an easy three gen later. if you catch them inmediately, it's over basically. survivors give up way more than necesary, but it's true that if you down them in the first 15 seconds of a match, that is a dead giveaway that the match won't be more than a one person escape at best. All of the 30 best killer perks sit at 58% kill rate or higher. and believe me, i'm aware that kill rate is not everything, or else we should buff nurse and nerf onryo. but also, let's see which perks are present in that top ten: and yes, knockout is there, clearly a slugging perk. BUT, you have a bunch of perks that require hooking to work: Grim embrace, hex: devour hope, scourge hook pain ressonace, scourge hook floods of rage, scourge hook gift of pain, hex: plaything, dead man's switch...., hell, even some gen kick perks are there, like oppression and overcharge. yet the always hated noed comes in at place 39 with a still high 57% kill rate but below for example both bamboozle and eruption. And you have to scroll down to perk number 100! to go below 50% kill rate, so as killer you really can bring anything and get at least a 2k. i do believe that we as killers should be ok with killing two people and having two survive. i feel like it's way too engrained in our minds that if anyone escapes it's a waste of our time and a source of frustration. I say all this because i would genuinly like to see an in depth suggestion from you on what would you do to fix some of the situations dbd is facing right now. i think a good template would be something similar like what horceror DbD did with his " Please make Dead by Daylight better" video but with your own ideas. i think that perpetually complaining is cathartic for sure, but maybe let's try and look at several issues in paralel and think of solutions that may work. i know some people will dismiss it as "bhvr won't listen" or "let's not do bhvr's work for free", but let's be honest here, it's lazyness. it takes effort. we get frustrated in games, and we don't have the time and energy to think of solutions so we just vent and rant, which is valid, but i'm sure more is accomplished by entertaining posible solutions and changes.yes, bhvr can be super deaf, but also, they've made a lot of the killer buffs we've been asking for in the past 12 months (and also the aberration that was basically killswitching skull merchant, but even that means the DO listen, because enough people complained about her that they did it) SO yeah.....again, i hope i don't get misunderstood. i love your channel, and i would be eager to hear your own comprehensive version of "let's make dead by daylight better"
killer queues are already in the dirt because no one wants to play survivor anymore so sweet, now even fewer people will want to play that dogshit role. i haven't seen a bp bonus on killer in four months at anytime in my region but survivor is always 100%. shits buckwild, BHVR is actively trying to kill their own game.
Its the other way around lmao. Queues are long because nobody wants to play killer lmfao, I stopped playing killer and just play survivor with friends now
@@midnightvibes5485 please tell me how did you assume this?. a queue taking long objectively means that there's A: too many people queuing for your same role, or B: not enough people queuing for the opposite role, or both. Killer queues are longer. there's almost never a lack of killers, the closest you get to an exception is like night time on weekends. and even then it's not a guarantee. As the op mentioned, even the bonus is there as proof, and we know for a fact how it works. if there was really a lack of killers, you would see a varying level of bonus bloodpoints on the role ranging from 25% to 150%.
@@magical571 That was very simply, when I queue up for killer I have to wait 10 minutes. Finding a game as survivor takes 3. Playing killer just suck and is a miserable experience, so I joined the survivors.
As a survivor main, I can't blame killers if they decide to slug, especially after watching this video. He made such great points that I can't get mad. Ngl tho, when this does come to fruition, I'm gonna become a slugging killer. Until BHVR breaks it further because we all know they're not capable of fixing it.
You are completely right .. I’m a new trapper main and I’m scared to hook ppl it’s better for me to drop them and then drop everyone else coming in as each one either gets hit or steps in a trap .. I’ve had some many slug games now unfortunately
I think they should make the time it takes for a survivor to bleed out in the dying state from 4 minutes to 1 minute. It adds a sense of urgency to help them recover, and if the killer is slugging the misery is over faster so you dont have to wait so long if you dont want to disconnect and not get any bloodpoints or a matchmaking penalty.
Something’s definitely gotta change with how slugging is currently. It’s so bad. I can understand if you gotta do it just a bit when it feels like the game is slipping away from the killer. Also if the killer is going against a full blown bully squad that prioritize breathing all down the killer’s neck for all kinds of saves instead of doing other objectives. I’ve encountered killers fully slugging out the gate without trying to hook anyone a single time. And will even go as far at to let them bleed out and not even chance the 4%. I’ve played killer for thousands of hours as I have survivor and I’ll never see how that play style is fun in any way.
I've seen it and since over buffing totem builds I will not even play as survivor unless I have a 2+ party so that we can have anti slug and anti totem. As killer I try to 12 hook and it only really works if I'm playing really off meta so nobody expects it
I tried the full slug thing as the game's goal but honestly, a lot of the time it feels like I'm trying to swim against the current. There is always one person who hides until all the slugged people crawl in different directions and then it's just re-slugging fiesta. I won. Sure. But it just feels bad reslugging people over and over. Survivors are not stupid they are not going to let you 4 slug.
In my opinion they need to just change how new chapters release. Don't include perks with survivors or killers at all. Instead release a new perk for survivors and a new one for killer that everyone can use. This will make it so we get new stuff to play with, but they can take their time by not trying to come up with 6 new perks that break the meta and game. And with the saved time they can focus on adjusting the gameplay and previous perks.
IMO,slugging is one of those issues where i don't think bhvr can really do much,because if they make basekit unbreakable,that would direcly kill off killers that RELY on slugging,mosstly oni or tier 3 myers,since from my perspective,they NEED to slug to use their power to the fullest,and by adding basekit unbreakable,it will make those characters straight up unplayable and i think that's why BHVR aren't doing anything about slugging,which i myself don't know what can really be done to fix slugging,besides adding new perkls that counter slugging,but if you have any ideas,feel free to put it out
Devs could add an extra objective/item called "extra surgeon kit" that a survivor can craft at the start of the trial. Surviors can interact with a surgeon table to create a "portable kit" that they can use later to pick themselves up, if they are getting slugged. Like again, it takes some time to create such "Litany cure", gives a killer some time to catch up (and it's up to survivors to decide if they want instantly jump onto gens or take a little time to be prepared), while they are crafting their "vitality vials" without applying basekit "corrupt intrevention". Yes, it's sort of sounds bad, because it means "no gens are getting done = killer is getting more pressure onto you", but it's still better than an absolute zero. I'm sure that there are devs in BHVR that can just sit down and brainstorm such slugging problem in general and everything else in 2 hours (it's just not on their priority yet, sadly). And I just hope that they won't implement something like "press a button to pick yourself up in exchange of 1/3 of your bleeding bar".
Either force you to not be able to heal someone else without a medkit, Or nerf every advantage that survivors get when hooked/unhooking. There's too much advantage in survivors favor when being hooked/unhooked, That's why slugging exists as a viable route, there's too little advantage for killer to do it.
It might seem like a small change but I think 70 second hooks was a terrible change I have lost several games because they had 10 extra seconds to finish a gen and they don't get punished for ignoring the hook
The research used that suggest slugging is superior is massively flawed because they counted 3K as a loss for hooking games. If you change the data to count 3K as a win then there was no difference between hooking and slugging.
Bhvr added an anti slugging mechanic to the 2v8, in exchange for putting your activate-able ability on cool down, you could revive yourself off the ground. Fallowing that, Survivors could in regular matches, could exchange for reviving themselves, they have their perks deactivated for a certain period of time, or be inflicted with broken or incapacitated for 60 seconds until they wait out the timer or go down again. And to prevent from being instantly reslugged, when the killer is within a 16m radius, survivors are given a 5 second Endurence effect. The incapacitated status effect would make it less viable for survivors to abuse it by purposefully going down and while giving killers something to generate pressure, while at the same time survivors can force killers to pick up or risk losing the survivor to a self-revive.
BHVR and survivor mains do not understand something fundamental to game balance. Understanding the effects of novelty on match data. Killer in this game is objectively weak. The game is objectively survivor sided, so then why do killers win as much as they do. Novelty. You will always perform worse against a new experience, but that doesnt mean its unbalanced or even good. Capcom added Terry to their game and he had the highest win rate, but they buffed him because they understand how novelty affects match data, and that Terry wasnt actually good. Just novel.
There's also the fact that the devs keep changing what "winning" means. On top of that, survivors just have too much advantages. Advantage trumps skill when both have the same skill level. It's also unfortunate that most survivors can't fathom the killer experience, and what's worse is that they think a "baby" killer experience is the norm, not thinking for a second that matchmaking is often giving them a weak team. It's not the typical experience. And they don't play killer much. It makes it even worse that killers that go to the survivor side fair far and away better than people that purely play survivor. They rank up quickly and play survivors more often because it's far less stressful. This leads to one conclusion; Killers know the game better than survivors. The game is mathematically survivor sided. Data means little to nothing without extrapolating and pruning, so Survivors typically don't know what the data means and bhvr won't tell the whole story. Bhvr caters to survivors to obtain money because they're the target demographic.
post the slugging guide and take the eats on it. I think you're 100% right even though I hate to admit it. Lemme hit you with this idea tho. Play for hooks anyway. Let sweatlords who need a win take their ez match. Let them sit in queue with the nasty people who enjoy slugging. BHVR is gonna circumcise the perk roster again when they recognize what's happened
This game has never had balance. It’s always looked like crap visually and played even worse. If they never had any licenses it would have died in 2016. Unfortunately there’s been no Dbd alternative that’s stuck around, so people keep giving BHVR money. They needed to pack up their bags a while ago, they can’t manage this game.
How the fuck did you include visuals? The visuals are amazing. Yes licences carry, they do for every game. Dbd alternates have the same issue but less effective. If you think dbd should end, you should leave instead
I just think they should allow surviors to bleed out on command. Like a reverse Unbreakable. They'll never fix slugging. It does't mean I should have to waste 5 minutes waiting to die to not get a leave penalty.
I dont play survivor, but as a Nurse main it has come to the point where survivors flood my Steam comments with like "+rep Non slugging Nurse", because they are probably used to every killer slugging in this age and day. Its kinda sad to watch, but I am glad I can bring a normal match to the survivors for once ^.^
Outside of a Slugularity build, 4 man slugging is so stressful for me lol. I know on paper it's the most effective way to secure a win against better teams, but it feels so counterintuitive
It’s really hard because 2-3 gens can fly by fast and there’s no hook progression to make you feel like you’re close to getting someone out. But as the minutes tick by your power grows. Also it’s great because you can immediately get into the next chase pressure gens etc you lose a lot of time hooking and whatnot.
But yeah anyways near the end it ramps up quickly the slug pressure. Once one person is out you can consider hooking but even then often it’s better just to keep slugging because their timers are ran down Unfortunately you can’t really mix slugging and hooks either as they both are opposite to each other. Either hook or slug.
Camping was an issue, they nerfed that, rightfully so. It was common to see cause it was effective. 4k Slugging though? That was your 1 in 10 toxic game. Remember: There will ALWAYS be bad guys ruining the system. What is stupid though is leaving no options. Gen perks, nerfed, chase perks, buffed, Aura perks, buffed. Anti heal perks? Buffed or reworked to be stronger. What's left over? Yes, chase around the map and down injured people. What is the preferred strat for that playstyle? Slugging. Even something like a Leverage Gift of Pain build. Hook people, make it hard to heal, slug. Cause you are creating situations were everybody is injured. Just give us options BHVR please, cause even now the good guys are converting to slugging.
I was a survivor in that knight game and i can see why slugging is so effective, that game could have gone very differently if you went for hooks instead. It was miserable to go against tho, especially since i was playing solo😂 Had killers in the next 2 games do the very same thing except they let everyone bleed to death for no reason T_T playing dbd at 3am is a mistake lol Also i saw this slugging strategy happen a lot in my matches and was wondering why no one is talking about it. Then i saw this video and I was like 'finally someone is talking about all the recent slugging' only to find myself in the video XD
When Blight came out i knew the Devs cared more for survivors than killers. There were 2 big glitches affecting both sides at the time. Survivors couldn’t hear the Terror Radius sometimes, and killers couldn’t hook survivors sometimes. Not being able to hear is annoying yeah, but its also a gameplay mechanic with undetectable and stealth abilities, so they can still play. But killers not being able to hook? Thats THE core mechanic theyre based around and they couldn’t do it. Guess which one BHVR fixed first?
Tried some of the best slug build aroud recently After that dumb perk that cleary is meant to make the killer life more miserable by preventing a kill and I gotta say the result is crazy becuz absolutly every survivor perks I seen is based aroud the killer hooking and so massive 4k match After match
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
I fudged my math up at the beginning and said 210 seconds for killing with hook but that’s only with Shoulder The Burden. And bleed out time is 240 seconds. Don’t do chemo and unscripted videos kids.
StB is NOT meta, or even good. You are bad at the game; Very bad.
@@dakota9821you’re actually too bad and dumb for words. Your elo is as low as your IQ. Go away
@@dakota9821how bro felt after commenting this 🐺💪🌕
@@Timothee_Chalamet_CMBYN if tunneling is so bad then why do the pros do it?
Also 240 seconds to bleed out, not 270.
Thrill is next on the chopping block. I always say: make the game fun again. Reward chases, fresh hooks, and let matchmaking reflect that. Stop focusing on Kills and Escapes-that’s the root of the issue. They can add systems and perks, but as long as Kills and Escapes remain the focus, nothing will change. It’ll only get worse. No fun allowed with the current design philosophy.
The other problem is that they are balancing the game with perks and not basekit changes. If someone has to run 2 or more perks to "counter" a crappy system then that's bad design. The system needs to be changed instead of adding bandaid perks. Like Borrowed Time or DS
Agreed with both the above comments. I have almost 2k hours, most of it on survivor (And get a lot of crap for it). But I and most players I know really just wish the game would be balanced for fun, instead of being balanced to be competitively “fair”.
Half the time im salty on surv, is not because I lost, but because the mechanics I’m dealing with are just plain annoying, frustrating, and unfun.
Same thing on killer. Getting gen rushed is unfun, and unfair.
@@stevenobrien7686 And the thing too is that it's not even really "gen rushing" most of the time (I played a lot of killer before I stopped altogether a while back). It's just that the survivors that aren't being chased don't have much else to do other than gens. Adding extra objectives, like getting parts or something for them to bring back to a gen might help slow it down a little and give them something else to do when they aren't being chased
That's the Tru3 argument. But despite the good intent, the flaw is that no one (except a content creator) plays assym horror to scare/run. They play to kill/win.
You will never make Call of Duty a game about damage over kills/last man standing. At it's core, that's the point. DbD is no different.
Imo I think the devs are trying to push survivors into completing more side objectives like chests and totems. The increase to chest opening speeds from 10-8 seconds. The dracula perks involving 1 perk that protects totems and chests and another that allows you to close chests and see auras near them. The buff to thrill of the hunt. The buff to a ton of chest related perks like pharmacy and ace in the hole to offer rarer items. Seems to me like the devs are seeing that a third of their in game interactables aren't being used and are considered a waste of time and are trying to find a way to make them more promient
BHVR 5 years ago: Consistently nerfs various unhealthy play styles in order to combat these. Does not offer a fun alternative and keeps over buffing / over nerfing various perks etc.
BHVR now: Consistently nerfs various unhealthy play styles in order to combat these. Does not offer a fun alternative and keeps over buffing / over nerfing various perks etc.
Behavior is actively trying to make their own game lose players because if they keep over nerfing killers and killer perks, it would result in no killer players and would replicate all the other asymmetric games that have shut down because of long queues
The only lesson BHVR will learn from this will be to nerf slugging
Exactly. And we just got a really good Doctor upgrade with Thrill but thats also being hotfixed soon.
@wadecarroll3572
"Nerf slugging🤡"
You cannot nerf a PlayStyle/Strategy that's not built into the mechanics of the game
@@AshtonWilliams-iu3cs Trust me they will find a way. BHVR always have options.
@Timothee_Chalamet_CMBYN
They aren't against camping
Btw camping is a vital strategy, especially at endgame
They only added anti camp to negate face camping (not proxy camping(
Besides on their website it states camping is not a reportable offense
@@AshtonWilliams-iu3csYou are underestimating BHVR’s ability to introduce hand-holding mechanics for Survivors while giving jackshit to Killers
We at BHVR hear you. In next Mid-Chapter update, We're introducing anti-slugging mechanic. If 2 survivors are on the ground they both get Basekit Unbreakable, this effect can happen infinite numbers of times per match. On top of that, We're nerfing Gen-Regression even more. Pain res is going to 5% regression and It deactivates when survivor dies. Look forward to patch notes for more information.
Please don't forget to vote for Labour of Love award :).
Don’t forget the new change to counter killers slugging “indefinitely”:
Killers have 8 total chances to down survivors. If they down more than 8 times entity automatically picks up the Survivor with the Endurance status effect from the ground
Killer mains are as cringe as survivor mains, cry about it.
@@Mini_Wongel Lmao I love the "Filthy X main" I have 43-57 role split, but sure lets bring everything to "OMG FILTHY X MAIN"
@@Mini_Wongel cope
Survivor mains "The game is still killer sided because I'm not winning every single match!!!!"
Never thought I would make a slugging build until recently. Knockout for the win
*Slugging becomes meta*
BHVR: "We're excited to introduce a new passive ability for survivors, Unlimited Unbreakable! We've observed that slugging has become a prevalent strategy, and in response, we're adding a basekit feature that allows survivors a fair opportunity to counter it. This change aims to foster a more balanced and engaging experience for everyone in the game."
I remember that in the PTB. Fucking hell that was shit.
@@Timothee_Chalamet_CMBYNnope. You kiddies have it too easy. I love how you glossed over the boon exponential/boiled over meta that FORCED the first slugging meta.
Take your dumbass outta here
Within 2 weeks of doing this, there's going to be another killer Exodus
@@Timothee_Chalamet_CMBYNmust be nice to get whatever you want as a survivor 😂
@@StephenE1991 facts! that was like 50% of my games until they literally had change the map to make people stop doing this on RPD
quiet kills has also been saying this for quite a while, saying that if you slug survivors cant even use 90% of their perks. hes really put me onto the method 😭
I’ve mostly reached this conclusion myself, but it still depends on the killer. Slugging is brutal for many killers and saves you a ton of time while also counterplaying several strong survivor perks.
I think that the healthiest thing to do is incentivize hooking. For example, basekit BBQ or a huge buff that extends the aura read. More perks like devour hope that do have counterplay but give a reason to hook and leave. Etc. killers WILL find the optimal play style and for many killers at present hooking is a huge detriment.
Basekit corrupt, when you spawn into a trial, the three furthest gens are blocked for 1 minute even if you hook someone, gives killers a chance to explore the map and reach people
Lmao, what is that BBQ bs, pathetic
Watch this - after each fresh survivor hook, killer blocks all generators for 30 seconds and gain a one minute powerful pop kick which regress total (not current) Gen progress by 65%.
Each hook on different survivor, (when one survivor not hooked twice in the row) provides the 20% pain resonanse effect and give killer aura of most farther surivovr from him for 10 seconds
I haven't played DbD in three months, the new DLC doesn't interest me and the killer has a lot of problems. And this problem right now where people are just slugging instead of hooking it's going to get even worse
Same, 5 months here. I just lost interest in the game because it simply isn't fun anymore. And the devs don't give a shit they just keep releasing cosmetics and releasing more chapters which just further bloats down the game and makes it harder for newer players, despite lots of outcry and BEGGING of them to fix the longstanding problems with the game. They really just want more money.
@@Enitoni2 and as long as players keep dumping truck loads of money on cosmetics, they won’t fix a damn thing
Slugging isn’t happening that much yet outside of, 4K and tactical when they see the flash lighter
A lot of people slugging is probably because the gen speeds
The last fun chapter was chucky in my opinion. The newer killers have different parts of older killers mixed up into one confusing kit! They are running out of ideas😢
If it weren’t for the licensed chapters, this game would’ve died A LONG TIME AGO.
That’s why I fell in love with it because of my horror fanatics
Solid balancing could make the game immortal, even without new licences at this point. They have so many. I hope they overhaul so many things wrong with this game one day, to make the game immortal.
I guarantee you if this game did not get three consecutive chapters without a license it would die
@@Myrrmoasta What in your opinion is "solid balancing" in assymetrical game like this? Dbd has too many factors to call it as "solid balancig". Playing both sides teaches it very quickly
i don't know man, my three favourite killers and three favourite survivors are all original:
Artist, singularity and dredge
Yui, nea and yun-jin
I love to see licenses, but their best designs are all original.
Tbh, slugging is quite obnoxious gameplay style, but killers are forced to used it in some cases, can't blame them
Survivors will moan no matter how you play. Play fair for 12 hooks and lose they will say ur bad and to get better. Tunnel and camp they will tell you to get better and to uninstall and if you slug they will say the same thing also😂
Guess I’ll be maining pyramid head now…
After we have received reports of excessive slugging, we have decided to remove the killers ability to down survivors in order to improve the survivor experience.
Survivors would be happy if no killer even existed and they could play a literal gen simulator😂
Slugging is, and has been for a long time now, a free win against solo q gamers. I refuse to do it because it's mind-numbingly boring, even if it's optimal. You said it yourself, DBD at it's sweatiest level is extremely unfun and I feel like hard slugging fits that description perfectly.
Thank you, someone finally says it. I’ve played killer for thousands of hours since 2017 and I refuse to do that for the exact same reason you just gave. Shid is hella boring. I honestly love to engage in as many chases as possible no matter how sweaty the survivors are. That’s the most fun part as killer to me personally.
You can win perkless against solo queue players
Exactly I agree with you. If you want even longer killer queues because survivors don’t want to spend 3 minutes on the ground then go for it. Otherwise relax. Have some fun. It’s a game.
Save slugging for swf. Solo queqe suffer enough!
So it seems like the biggest problem in DbD is the difference in the mindset. The competitive mindset and the casual mindset. There is no information in the game about whether you will play against a strong, sweaty SWF, or a soloQ, OR EVEN a SWF but with a relaxed mindset, talking some crap on Discord and not focusing on the match with 100% attention. I really hate DbD in moments like this - when I play with a casual mindset against sweaty playstyles (whether against killers or survivors) and the only solution at that moment is to become part of the problem - to start the game with a sweaty mindset
Blame people like Hens, Ayrun and Scott Jund for that mindset.
@@MassEffectFan113 What are you on about? Scott Jund plays fair 99% of his games. Why did you mention these 3? We could started with Otzdarva, the most popular content creator. But have you ever considered that they feel forced to play this way because they play too long and according to great MMR system they are probably in top (although I don't know anything about this funny MMR anymore)? Don't you blame Choy for slugging which for me is with the same shelf of playstyles? Weird comment from you. Even if people imitate them - they do have their own brains don't they? I've played against sweaty normal players more times than against sweaty streamers and you probably too
Matchmaking fault back in days you just stay at rank 9-14 and you had the most relaxed games if you want to be competitive you play at rank 1-8
@muysli.y1855 I would love to see old matchmaking in DbD, even for short period of time just to test and experiment
The counter to Shoulder the Burden without slugging, is to camp the survivor on hook and force hook trades.
Shoulder the Burden hard counters tunneling by itself, because each hook state can be spread out, but the perk also gives exposed so you can down the survivor going for the unhook instantly with a basic attack, which is why camping is so effective.
If BHVR removed the exposed status effect from Shoulder the Burden, then it would be the strongest survivor perk in the game, which would singlehandedly kill tunneling.
Camping would be reduced too, as time on hook can already be extended by 30 seconds (reassurance), but combined with Shoulder the Burden, you can trade hook states with survivors on death hook, which means tunneling would be completely obsolete. As a survivor player, this would be amazing. As a killer player, it'd force players to run A or S tier killers to keep up. Every killer in the game without serious map presence and lethality would be terrible.
It would turn into Snowball meta.
Talking about 10% of playerbase
I mean... you know if slugging ever becomes legitimately widespread it'll get nerfed into the ground.
Tunnel one survivor out? -> OTR/DS/DH/STB, bodyblocks, Background Player into flashlight/pallet/(bugged and/or) potentially uncounterable flashbang save -> you get punished
Camp? -> anti-camp mechanic during both hook stages -> you get punished
Proxy-camp? -> buffed hook stage timer (60 -> 70 seconds), maybe even Reassurance -> you get punished
Spread hooks and "pressure"? -> detrimental, takes too long, gens will fly, Deliverance is possible, aggressive bodyblocking/DS and flashlight etc. saves still possible -> you get punished
Endgame Build? -> not enough payoff, those perk slots would have potentially made much more difference in the early to mid game -> you get punished
Patrol gens? -> Regression perks have been nerfed into the ground, you need downs fast, otherwise -> you get punished
Defend a 3-gen? -> Regression event limit, survivors will win the long game if they play correctly, especially with boons; you'll have to commit and they'll finish the last gen -> you get punished
I've yet to see any killer go for a full slug right out the gate, but I've definitely noticed more multi-person slugs in my games recently. The entire hook system needs an overhaul in my opinion. Just being able to stomp survivors into a cage in the first 2v8 and hopping straight into another chase felt so good. The whole process of hooking is not only damaging to the killer's game, but it disrupts the natural flow of gameplay.
Yeh just take out literally the half the game
@@ZacharyS-us8st I never said anything about removing hooks entirely, I just said it felt good not having to deal with the process. I'm not a game dev - it shouldn't be the community's job to figure this shit out for them, but something about the system needs to change because at the moment it just kind of feels rough and dated imo.
You are very lucky. Probably a quarter of my games go full slug. Solo queue team mates have no intention of picking team mates up if they’re at risk
Thats why Friday the 13th was way more fun. No hooking garbage
Some local legends say if your really quiet at night and listen for it that you can hear the screams of the crazy man yelling about dead by daylight.
I have come to embrace my mechanical overload The Slugularity as it ushers in this glorious age of slugging
Shoulder the Burden is a seriously powerful perk. I was watching a swf purposely let their member go 2nd hook to gen rush, and then they'd save their friend's 2nd hook from tunneling. It's insanely powerful!
Slugularity finally S-Tier
Sleeper S-Tier OP Pick.
Unironically more oppressive than Nurse. Big brother watching his slugs.
@DaPerfecto57 Especially with the add-ons that make survivors Blinded while slip streamed and the one that makes them start the trial slip streamed. I also use the perks Knock Out, Sloppy Butcher, Death Bound, and Fear Monger
Singularity is very strong in the right hands!
At this point. There are so many survivor mains on the game that the game will just become free friendly to survivor mains where they will have a lot of fun and the killer mains will find the game incredibly boring and stressful and go to another game.
But you can't say this because you upset a lot of survivor mains.
The problem with slugging from survivors perspective is exactly the same as with new Hex: Thrill - it's just stupidly boring. Staying on the ground for 3 minutes when there is absolutely nothing you can do is just pure bullshit, same as staying on a totem for over 2 minutes. At this point we are getting on the ground where doing a generator might be an exciting experience, because you atleast can have skill checks. And if killer un Merci Storm or Opression? Damn, so much fun!
What I'm talking about is not the winning or losing the game but actually enjoying it - slugging (and doing new hexes) is just an extremely bullshit and it will hurt the game A LOT more in long term than just lowering killer winrate could ever do.
Blame devs for making hooks more beneficial to survivors than to killers.
Can't blame killers if their objective is objectively broken.
Solid balancing could make the game immortal, even without new licences at this point. They have so many. I hope they overhaul so many things wrong with this game one day, to make the game unkillable
They are terrible at game design and balance so this will never happen. They just got extremely lucky with their licenses. Even their first myers dlc came out unbalanced lmfao.
It wouldnt, DBD players have the attention span of Babies
Your 210 figure is wrong. It's 140 seconds because you instantly die on your third hook. I agree with the general sentiment but that number is just wrong.
☝️🤓
@@Steve_V_Raglan not even its just incorrect lmao.
I hope hound master gets a skin where her dog turns into a slug
I wonder what the result would be if a big enough percentage of the killer community somehow organized a month or two time out. I'd think if the choices are sit in a queue most of your playtime as a survivor or jump sides and be miserable as a killer, it might hurt the numbers to a point BHVR decides they need to actually balance the game.
I never will see myself playing that way. I will slug, when it is opportunistically viable or necessary. Like when I forego a hook in order to make it to a key generator or when I get an immediate follow-up chase on an injured target. But going for a full 4-men slug straight out of the gate is just toxic nonsense. Saying that it is not meant to be toxic is like kicking someone in the gut and then saying, that it isn’t personal.
“Well, isn’t that reassuring to know! Really improves my 4 minutes on the ground!”
Slugging is mathematically better because its practically the same state where you are in a place where you can't move, and you are doing absolutely nothing. Healing from being slugged takes 32 seconds by yourself, and then requiring another survivor to come and pick you up, and then heal you for another 16 seconds. The potential to healing from being slugged to healthy is requiring another player, and then being healed for 32 seconds. Hooking is mathematicaly worse to do as killer because you spend time hooking them which is like somewhere around 9 seconds without survivors wiggling out, and then hooking them, however, the survivor then gets to sit there for more than two minutes without death, and then gets absolutely no time taken to be unhooked, then endurance to attempt to guarantee a somewhat safe recovery, and since endurance is only potentially useful in that situation, usually the survivors take a maximum of 16 seconds to heal from being hooked. Its about snowball, and how much time you can make survivors waste
there's a lot of "buts" though. slugging only works if it goes all the way to death, and if they crawl and get picked up, you don't get a notification, unlike an unhook. and you are assuming survivors pick their teammates at the very last second of each stage with perfect timing and no waste, which isn't the case at all.
The issue with slugging is that you have no consolidated progress until the survivor is dead and it takes longer. Whether the survivor is 1 minute away from bleeding out or 3 minutes away from bleeding out and gets picked up, the timer continues from there once they get downed again.
Total time for bleeding out is 4 minutes (240 seconds).
Whereas, when a survivor first goes from being hooked, unhooked and then hooked again, that can be somewhere between 1-70 seconds of time reduced off the survivor's life by reaching the second hook stage. After being hooked twice, the timer does not continue from first hook stage at 30 seconds in like it does when bleeding out.
Total time for survivor to die on first hook is 2 minutes, 20 seconds (140 seconds).
Hooks gives more progress; slugging gives more pressure in the short-term. Problem with slugging is that after 30.5 seconds of a survivor recovering on the ground, survivor is at the maximum 95% recovery progress, which means the time it takes for a survivor to heal the downed survivor is 1.5 seconds; basically the same time as if they were unhooking that survivor. Worse yet, if a survivor heals them earlier, this gives them additional lives if you're not camping their bodies.
240 / 30.5 = 7 lives. A survivor can get up to 95% recovery progress 7 times per match as opposed to no hook stage (1), 1 hook stage (2), and 2 hook stages (3) equalling 3 lives.
Overall, slugging is only better when there are multiple survivors slugged all in the same location, as the short-term pressure can enable a win if all 4 survivors get downed without unbreakable.
Or, against survivors who run multiple second-chance perks around unhooks; then yes, slugging is definitely better.
For anti-loop killers and hybrids
HEX RUIN
HEX UNDYING
HEX THRILL OF THE HUNT
HEX FACE THE DARKNESS
For M1 ones
Build in video
Thrill is getting gutted in a few days. Developer confirmed it on their cesspool forum.
@CaptToilet RIP you will be missed. Anyway so we switch to pentimento for slowdown
@@ralsei8642 I am honestly surprised Penti hasn't been nerfed or at least tokens swapped so gen speed is like 2nd token or something. I wouldn't put it past them.
Ruin is terrible
@pegeta WRONG. Ruin is peak slowdown now. Other perks are mid at best.
Shoulder the burden gives solo-que teamates a fair chance against tunneling, but when used with SWF, it basically lowers each killers strength by one tier.
No one in soloq will use it. They are uncoordinated and selfish dumbasses. You don't even need to tunnel soloq as killer, first of all
It is crazy how much easier matches as M1 killers become if you just don't hook anyone until the end. Even against the toughest lobbies on the harder maps you can still squeeze out a 2k in the endgame if you protect your downs enough. I've been having success with this strategy on Myers.
Sucks that this is what the game could be headed towards, but it is admittedly a lot more fun as Killer; not having to hook gives you a lot more free time and agency in the match.
This is the whole reason why i see Michael Myers as the only killer that can play the game the way it was intended by still killing survivors in a way that denies them the use of all their perks.
Like you said in the video, some, or most, survivor perks are based around being hooked, not to mention there is counterplay that exists when hooking survivors like them flash blinding you when you pickup or dropping a pallet on you when you pick up, sabotage of hooks and the other perks that help with that, all of that is easily avoided through slugging, and it's a very efficient way of maintaining constant map pressure, since survivors on the ground don't contribute to their escape it's better to just leave them there.
Not to mention, hooking people takes up valuable time, if i were to play hillbilly i would just down someone and then go for the next wasting as little time as possible, it's just more efficient.
But back to Michael Myers, because he has access to Tombstone he can instantly remove someone from the game, never having a chance to use any of their perks, not only does it deny any hook based perks it also denies some exhaustion perks like dead hard since you don't have to worry about them being injured (unless you did hit them for some reason).
I've instant killed survivors at 5 gens and the way it changes the balance shift of the game is insane, if you start slugging on top of that it's just a recipe for disaster for the survivors and i'm all for as many advantages i can get.
Sadako?
@@pegeta Sadakos condemned playstyle takes awhile for you to get it going and isn't as consistent as getting kills with tombstone.
You can always surprise a survivor and get an easy kill. but with sadako you really have to work for it and it isn't always guaranteed.
Shamed they nerfed Tombstone to being unusable.
i 100% agree i started using doctor as my slug killer with these 4 perks: knockout, sloppy butcher, surge, and franklin’s.
1. his power is good for chase so survivors would have to pre drop pallets and vault more often
2. perks are really good especially its m1 based
3. counters dh, ds, we’ll make it, resurgence, reassurance, etc.
4. even with unbreakable, wglv, boon expo, mft, the killer can down the survivor that has the boon perk, snuff it, and go for others all while gens are not being done/regressing
5. if survivors also run power struggle, flip flop, boil over, breakout theres no use against a slugging build when you bring a wiggle build
At the end of the day, slugging is programmed into the game as one way to win. It's fair game.
This reminds me of the state TCM is right now. With the victims plowing down all new family players, making them not want to play.
The survivor community seems to think all asym games have to be Friday the 13th. But let me tell you, if you get rid of killers/family players, you just get stuck with a bunch of sweaty SWFs not willing to play the other side. Even on TCM, they wont play in a group of 3 family members.
It seems the communities just want Rush week on all asyms, making them play the other side forcefully.
Right now? Victims have been doing that to Family since the first month when they all realized they could just rush the objective and they'll have the exit open within 2 min. And I always stress in these sort of arguments, where people bring up the 'force everyone to play all sides' idea, that a good chunk of players -- like myself -- will just straight up leave if we're forced to play the role we don't enjoy.
I don't like Survivor roles in Asym games. I didn't want to be the Marines in Predator, I didn't want to be the hunters in Evolve. I don't want to be Victims in TCM, Survivors in DBD, Campers in F13 -- I don't enjoy that role, I don't want to play that role, and if you make it so I HAVE to play it, I'm going to play something else instead. End of story. People get so hunt up on the tribalism that they fail to realize some 'Killer' mains just don't enjoy the gameplay of the otherside, nothing else to it.
A hooked survivor went from a killer power position to a survivor power position.
Unironically. It easier if you get hooked because it activates so many perks. You can heal 3x faster just from unhooking and reset your entire team, can't do that when healing off ground.
@@uyeah1234 I get camping sucks and everything but common sense tells you that should not be the case. Imagine how difficult it is to understand that for new players.
i’ve had to slug recently to get kills. it’s rough for sure. i totally get what you are saying
This is why started to play twins now I hate shoulder perk
Twins and Singularity are amazing for slugging ❤
StB isn't even a good perk.
Anyone that thinks so is literally among the worst players in the game.
@@dakota9821 the perk is crazy strong but only in a team that really knows what they're doing
@@dakota9821 I feel like it's the other way around. Perk's only relevant if it's being used by competent players.
Shoulder is only good in swf. So far, every time I've seen it in public lobby it just meant free kill. Also didn't see many people running it in random lobbies. The few that I've seen were used so poorly that it vas an advantage for killer instead of disadvantage.
Don't forget thrill of the hunt is confirmed to be nerfed in a hot fix upcoming
Because of Otz indirectly nerfing it.
@@Herman_Hedningit NEEDED that nerf.
I mean it needs to be. Honestly. You shouldn’t have to run counterforce every single match because the one Nemmy, or Demo shaman build you run into will be impossible to win against otherwise.
There’s other issues on killer side for sure, but Thrill is way overtuned. Again it’s something that doesn’t help against organized SWFs, but is completely unfair against casual survivors.
@@pegeta I genuinely despise the fact swf has such a huge advantage over casual for that reason. For a swf sure it's doable but otherwise it's a 100 percent stomp.
@@sandunderman9865 Then get ready for more slugging then...until that gets nerfed as well. Ngl it feels like the devs are nerfing everything for killer players to force everyone to play the same killers in order to keep up with good players. The big problem here as always is the disparity between a SWF and a solo queue team
I played a match where the first person I downed and tried to hook they had boil over and their teammate was body blocking and since they had boil over I couldn’t stay still , so I slugged because I knew trying to get hooks would just not work
That’s why I’ve been bringing exponential and shadow step in my build. I don’t have to get too close for a save or move my boon if it gets snuffed.
Slugging simply is going to get you more wins. Sucks? yes .. Slug anyways? Yes .. why? They will cry regardless or T-bag you while all 4 escape
LOOKS LIKE SLUGS'RE BACK ON THE MENU, BOYS
YES. Yes to all of this. Finally a youtuber who knows what's up. Not like the supposed big names who drop vids immediately when thrill gets buffed and hexes become viable for a couple days and having bhvr conform that they'll nerf it back. Jfc
You aren't the crazy guy on this one bit. I've been realizing this strategy after playing with full Blindness builds and started to experiment with how it could work on someone like Pig where I won't have to worry about survivors taking off RBTs if I just leave them on the ground. They can see where all the boxes are without a green addon so I'm making sure they're staying put until the timer goes active and the game can really begin for them.
Their teammates can just let them bleed out and eventually be put on a time crunch or spend precious time searching for them around the map. They certainly have to make a choice, and it's better slowdown than by using the RBTs and hooking normally.
me that start to slug when they nerf pain res and pop in june im happy that now more killer are slugging annoy when i play survivor but happy that slugging is becoming more popular
Survivors will get salty at the killer for this playstyle yet they never realize that BHVR is the one instigating this. Don't dare bring this up anywhere because power hungry admins will ban you without a second thought.
Nah - the meta will shift and then killers will complain when survivors start rocking anti-slug builds.
Realistically, slugging should really only be used strategically in the same manners as tunneling and camping. There's a time and place, but you can't get upset when you use it as your main strat and it gets countered.
Slugging is not more effective or efficient than hooking; The only killer you can even argue that for, is singo.
Every single other killer performs better if you actually hook the survs.
Tell me you're bottom MMR, without explicitly saying so...
@@Timothee_Chalamet_CMBYN Killers cry at approx the same rate as survs; The only difference is you get 4 survs per match but only 1 killer.
What side is this video from again? Oh right: It's a killer crying.
What are you doing? Oh right: Killer crying.
Point proven.
The same goes for any game
"survivors will get salty" is just a bs some people need to keep telling themselves. I'm a killer main and yet i'd rather drop the game than start playing this way. I'm salty as a killer that game is pushing me to the field where i need to feel like a rotten worm to maintain higher winstreak
As as survivor I wish I can have an action button to bleed out faster when I’m slugged. It could activate with like 20-30 seconds of inactivity. At least with a hook I can be out of the game in less than a min. Being slugged is the most boring thing that can happen.
Fr or add a “give up” option and just bleed out when you get under 50% health lol
Still keep up with you & a few other DBD youtubers but I quit playing over a year ago & I'm so much happier for it. I'd love an update to bring me back in, but I doubt it atp. Seems like BHVR only ever does a worse job than the year before
Literally the only thing that stops a lot of killers from doing this is their personal moral compass. It is simply not very viable anymore to win in sweaty 1v4 to play for hooks. Because you get punished for doing so. Playing DbD atm is just pain in the ass because it is all just disgusting sweatfest all around.
(as for argument why are you still playing dbd, guess what, I almost don´t, this shit pushed me into at least temporary break in favor of singleplayers, with my friend being the only reason I still play 1-2 matches ocassionaly).
Same really, with so many serious issues with the game, ridiculously inconsistent map RNG, map offerings, downright unfair stuff and so much jank, it is honestly rarely a good experience, and even more rare that is it a good experience for both sides.
Also when the main and usually only objective is literally the same as when the game was released almost a decade ago, it does start to become stale..
As a majority killer player this is true
I stopped playing a couple months back, but i was already running just slugging bulids on Nemi and Alien and had a much better win rate.
And when i was playing survivor at least 1 in 6 killers was running a slugging bulid, but i had a blast with Mettle of Man and Tenacity.
Its ok guys we're working on a new wheel of priviledge and it should come out soon. See you in the fog!
Gor as long as I remember, bhvr has made the easy choice rather than a creative choice. These eas choices have left higher level survivors at a higher advantage than ever before. They need to start incentivising hooks rather than taking an easy way out and giving unbreakable to survivors.
my theory: first "fix" behavior is gonna do, basekit unbreakable. Next "fix"? instead of dying outright you'll just loose a hookstate when bleeding out and it'll reset the timer. Next? you get a charge of unbreakable basekit for each hookstate. Also, personally expecting that if/when unbreakable becomes basekit (since they've already been talking about that for a while) unbreakable will be buffed to instead put you into the healthy/uninjured state upon getting up from the dying state.
i think unbreakable base kit would be fair when there's two or more people on the ground and not just one guy
@@magical571 honestly agreed, like I mentioned unbreakable being basekit has been talked about for a while and I don't think that's without reason. I just get the feeling behavior will not actually end up balancing it out well.
Why is it whenever the killers have an effective strategy for actually KILLING survivors, it gets nerfed, but survivors get to keep their bullshit for months and months without BHVR batting an eye? Literally just “fun has been detected, fun has been nerfed”
Survivors get to keep their stuff for _years_ without much change at all.
Dead hard anyone?
It wasn't nerfed, it was side-graded
I remember back when they first released the emblem system. It had it's flaws, in ways it didn't work well for killers but still was a decent way of scoring games...then they made it more competitive because comp players cried that everyone could pip up just by playing well and being active in a game, meaning killers were rewarded for giving a good match, and survivors were rewarded for doing the same. They *needed* there to be someone to "lose" the match for no other reason than to ensure that someone would be made to feel bad, especially after having scummy players/teams dog pile on them for not getting an absolute 4k/4escape. The problem has always been the comp players and the devs listening to them as if there was money to be made at the end of that broken bridge they mistook for a rainbow (*for those who don't get it, they took a long walk off a short bridge in search of a pot of gold at the end of rainbow which also resembles a bridge). Dead by daylight is a game that honestly does have a low skill ceiling, to the point that it makes these mediocre pvp gamers feel like rock stars and like they are actually ready for competitive big leagues. This low skill ceiling has caused many casual players to have exceedingly big egos, rarely earned or deserved, which relies entirely on them understanding how to "win" by abusing mechanics than through any sort of real skill.
Yeah, I've been on an extended break from this game. I get on and find my mood souring way too quickly. I might mostly play survivor side, but I totally get why killers are having to play a certain way, even before this perk.
I would agree that slugging is definitely the superior option when the survivors are grouped up, i.e.: going for saves or healing each other.
But when you have no idea where the other survivors are after downing one of them, it's usually best to go for a hook against a SWF.
Against a non-SWF, you can run Knock Out or Hex: The Third Seal, but these perks are significantly weaker vs a coordinated team on Discord.
In my opinion, slugging is most powerful when multiple survivors are within close proximity of one another, since it can be easier to force repeated downs when they're downed next to each other. Whereas, hooking when survivors are on top of each other forces the killer to waste time separating the survivors on two or more different hooks when instead, the killer could simply sit there and patrol the area to ensure no one is going for the save. Either by hook or by bleeding out the survivors will die eventually, so slugging is generally less effort and less risk too.
Just got back into dbd to finish the last section of archives. I stopped for a month or a month and a half. Nearly every match now is a slugfest. I don't know what changed, but knock-out perk is really common now as no one can see any downed survivor.
I play on Aussie server's, so we get a few different countries as I believe it's an OCE server. I play at the most sweaty hours (11pm till 4-6am). As survivor I've only had 1 game where the killer was actually going for the 4 person slug off the bat. Only other times have been lucky snowballs in the endgame e.g. where mistakes are made, and 2 people are slugged near a hooked surv. I've played a couple games where I went for the 4 surv slug from the start, and I gotta say after a couple games I got bored and went back to hooks again. But I definitely noticed that I had much more success slugging. I just got really bored because I think I like the chaos of 100s of 2nd chances hahaha.
I don't really experience the slugging in my surv games, but if what I'm hearing isn't hugely exaggerated, then I hope BHVR do something soon, that isn't a give up on ground option (I definitely don't want my solo q teammates to have that awful option) or some base kit unbreakable that's really quick, especially if UB and exponential can be stacked with it.
I wish good luck to BHVR with this, please don't screw it up because of whinger's, please make it a good balance
If this goes unadressed it might become as bad as the gen kick meta, imagine you're a new player and in your first game after being downed you get to have the spectacular gameplay of laying on the ground holding down 1 button and maybe moving a bit, if that starts to happen on a regular basis not only will it turn away new players but many existing ones as well, let's not forget that in the experiment the dc percentage was significantly higher, carniveris acknowledged that it's not a very fun playstyle to go against, otz has talked about it becoming a potential issue, if this meta becomes common it won't just be unhealthy for the game but outright lethal, sure you may get easier games now but when all the casual players decide the game is too miserable in that state all you'll be left with are the most elite swfs fully prepared to make you experience miserable in return not to mention that unlike the gen kick meta since it's not making both sides have less fun it means that killer que times will go down the drain, a lot of exclusively killer mains like to say that if the game becomes to unfun for killers then swfs will have nobody left to play with, but this also works in reverse
I'm not an experienced game dev by any means but even I can see what needs to be done, simply reward getting hookstages, ad some kind of good benefit for hook stages, but I think it would also be a good idea to remove the benefit of a survivor's hook stages once they are killed, that discourages tunneling someone out along with making unwinnable games a little more bearable(maybe even give a slight advantage if there are 2 survivors left but still a lot of gens left as well) not to mention shoulder the burden wouldn't be as effective, then once hooking is more viable you can start making slugging unviable, it's a similar design philosophy to doom but I haven't played doom so I'll mention guilty gear strive instead, ggs rewards you with tension(your meter) for playing aggressive while not engaging with the opposing fighter for too long will actually empty out your meter, make it so if multiple survivors are left on the ground for more then a minute and the killer hasn't picked up any of them they can all pick themselves up, is it harsh, yes just like losing all your meter in a game with roman cancels, an unfun playstyle should punish you, adding those conditions also means that if you're playing oni or something and you get a legendary play with 4 downs you just have to pick someone up and the effect won't trigger, now if you get 3 downs but can't find the last survivor then you still get some insane pressure with 3 people on hook(reminder that my previous suggestions makes that extra rewarding with 3 extra hook states) and the survivor gets a chance to either prepare for a hatch play or try and somehow turn this around, regardless the game needs a significant overhaul if it aims to survive until the fnaf chapter
By design of the game survivors have much more downtime in which they aren’t effectively playing a videogame. That’s also why it’s usually easier to stream as survivor.
Just add an option for a slugged/hooked survivor to play something else. Like tetris, puzzle game or a platformer. If multiple survivors are incapacitated they might join a “Ultimate chicken horse”-like game together.
See that way you won’t have to stress about crawling around, trying to unhook yourself or hitting crazy skillchecks.
Win-win!
My suspicion for why survivors in your matches didn't do well against a slugging approach was that they were simply not used to it, so I think hooking would be more reliable in this hypothetical where survivors adjusted to a slugging meta.
Did they pick up the survivor when you were close by and naturally make it easier to hit them, acting as if there were a OTR equivalent to help recover a survivor up when course they more likely than not did not actually have such a perk?
Did they leave a survivor on the ground for too long even though they saw the recovery progress was high for a long time?
Even with that main slugging perk, Knock Out, remember in this hypothetical survivors would have adjusted to the meta, they would pay more attention to the last whereabouts of their teammates and have a more educated guess as to where they got downed, and by that same token the downed survivor would know where to start crawling towards.
There are gen benefiting perks, even if nerfed, that still provide enough value to justify picking up survivors and walking them to hooks.
I play in solo queue against sweaty killers pretty frequently, and its not that common to have survivors go for the save, whatever way that would be, and for good reason as if you mess up a save after following for a while, that's a lot of gen progress lost for nothing in exchange.
So altogether hooking is the better option here.
Let's of course look at the numbers here where we put slightly more aggravating, but still somewhat realistic factors for the hooking approaches.
Traditional tunneling:
- 2 70s hook stages = 140
- 2 ~10s extensions due to OTR = ~20
- 1 ~15s extensions due to DS
Let's just even add 1 Reassurance - 30s
140 + 20 + 15 + 30 = 205s
Sure, there are survivor perks that benefit off unhooking, albeit not many of them are really meta, but there is pretty much 2 or so hook/gen perks that a killer would need agains sweaty survivors, so hook perks on the killer side are more meta and therefore more frequent than hook perks on the survivor side, so killers benefit generally benefit more than survivors off hooking in that sense.
Slugging:
- 240s
With a similar note with the previous approach, in an adjusted meta where survivors bring more anti-slugging perks, UB already brings great value here, and with WGLF, I would say it's actually better for survivors value comparison wise.
A rough intuition makes it where people essentially have at least 5 times to get downed before they die off.
And just to reiterate, this is an adjusted meta, where survivors would be more timely in their rescues to avoid unnecessary idle time on the ground.
I think the video is correct I see more and more of this and secure the killer win especially with solo ques.
even though i feel what you are saying, a "good" perk has a 35% escape rate on nightlight. example: reassurance, number 7th highest escape rate perk, 1.59% pick rate, 37.28% escape rate.
Right now, shoulder the burden sits at 2.51% pick rate (which is high, 36th based on pick rate), and number 9 by escape rate (36,91%).
And if slugging is so good, then one would expect tenacity and unbreakable to have higher win rates, but they don't they sit at 31-32% escape rate, even though they are picked quite a bit (2% and 10% respectively).
How would you go about nerfing slugging, realistically? because just buffing hooking isn't realistic. hooking is already decent, i understand that it feels survivor sided against good teams, but just look at the overal numbers and really as i mentioned, top perks sit around 35% escape rate or less. to mention a few:
Off the record: 35%
decisive strike: 35%
Resurgence: 35%
Sprint burst: 34%
Hope: 34%
Resilience: 33%
if you just buff hooking, you won't stop slugging necesarily (personal preference will always exist) and you will probably achieve the same miserable experience for survivors just in a different fashion.
And i feel like i have to mention: i prefer playing killer, i understand the battered wife syndrome with this game, how you get 5 swfs in a row finishing the match extra fast and teabagging at the gate only to see nothing but meta and BNPs in the post game lobby. and you feel so frustrated, you are not enjoying, yet you feel compeled to play. i've been there believe me. But i've been playing survivor enough to get the full picture. how will you adress the solo queue survivor experience?
and as much as i love your channel, something tells me that what you want is a killer buff, not just a fix in any form. let¿s say that they double the bleed out timer, or they implmenet something i've seen suggested before in the form of a basekit unbreakable + tenacity (minus the faster recovery speed) if there are two or more people on the ground. would you be ok with that? it would probably fix slugging, but not via buffing killers.
So what really is your complain focused on? is it that you want hooking to be easier? ok, but then we would need something like base kit off the record and not just the 5 seconds of endurance off the hook. or triple or even quadruple the aoe to count as anti-camp (because as it is right now you have to stand right on top of the hook for it to count. get yourself a central hook and goddam you got a perfect hill to check a three gen and camp a survivor all at once)}
As killer, i feel like gens either fly by inmediately, or they never get done. it really comes down to how fast either side can start snowballing. if the survivors can get a central gen plus another one before you get a down or more, you are doomed because they won't be on death hook and they won't give you an easy three gen later. if you catch them inmediately, it's over basically. survivors give up way more than necesary, but it's true that if you down them in the first 15 seconds of a match, that is a dead giveaway that the match won't be more than a one person escape at best.
All of the 30 best killer perks sit at 58% kill rate or higher. and believe me, i'm aware that kill rate is not everything, or else we should buff nurse and nerf onryo. but also, let's see which perks are present in that top ten: and yes, knockout is there, clearly a slugging perk. BUT, you have a bunch of perks that require hooking to work:
Grim embrace, hex: devour hope, scourge hook pain ressonace, scourge hook floods of rage, scourge hook gift of pain, hex: plaything, dead man's switch...., hell, even some gen kick perks are there, like oppression and overcharge. yet the always hated noed comes in at place 39 with a still high 57% kill rate but below for example both bamboozle and eruption.
And you have to scroll down to perk number 100! to go below 50% kill rate, so as killer you really can bring anything and get at least a 2k. i do believe that we as killers should be ok with killing two people and having two survive. i feel like it's way too engrained in our minds that if anyone escapes it's a waste of our time and a source of frustration.
I say all this because i would genuinly like to see an in depth suggestion from you on what would you do to fix some of the situations dbd is facing right now. i think a good template would be something similar like what horceror DbD did with his " Please make Dead by Daylight better" video but with your own ideas. i think that perpetually complaining is cathartic for sure, but maybe let's try and look at several issues in paralel and think of solutions that may work. i know some people will dismiss it as "bhvr won't listen" or "let's not do bhvr's work for free", but let's be honest here, it's lazyness. it takes effort. we get frustrated in games, and we don't have the time and energy to think of solutions so we just vent and rant, which is valid, but i'm sure more is accomplished by entertaining posible solutions and changes.yes, bhvr can be super deaf, but also, they've made a lot of the killer buffs we've been asking for in the past 12 months (and also the aberration that was basically killswitching skull merchant, but even that means the DO listen, because enough people complained about her that they did it)
SO yeah.....again, i hope i don't get misunderstood. i love your channel, and i would be eager to hear your own comprehensive version of "let's make dead by daylight better"
killer queues are already in the dirt because no one wants to play survivor anymore so sweet, now even fewer people will want to play that dogshit role. i haven't seen a bp bonus on killer in four months at anytime in my region but survivor is always 100%. shits buckwild, BHVR is actively trying to kill their own game.
Its the other way around lmao. Queues are long because nobody wants to play killer lmfao, I stopped playing killer and just play survivor with friends now
@@midnightvibes5485 please tell me how did you assume this?. a queue taking long objectively means that there's A: too many people queuing for your same role, or B: not enough people queuing for the opposite role, or both.
Killer queues are longer. there's almost never a lack of killers, the closest you get to an exception is like night time on weekends. and even then it's not a guarantee. As the op mentioned, even the bonus is there as proof, and we know for a fact how it works. if there was really a lack of killers, you would see a varying level of bonus bloodpoints on the role ranging from 25% to 150%.
@@magical571 That was very simply, when I queue up for killer I have to wait 10 minutes. Finding a game as survivor takes 3. Playing killer just suck and is a miserable experience, so I joined the survivors.
As a survivor main, I can't blame killers if they decide to slug, especially after watching this video. He made such great points that I can't get mad. Ngl tho, when this does come to fruition, I'm gonna become a slugging killer. Until BHVR breaks it further because we all know they're not capable of fixing it.
You are completely right .. I’m a new trapper main and I’m scared to hook ppl it’s better for me to drop them and then drop everyone else coming in as each one either gets hit or steps in a trap .. I’ve had some many slug games now unfortunately
I used shoulder the burden and the killer swore to slug from now on, oops.
Good thing they have that awesome consultant team to better the game 😂
I think they should make the time it takes for a survivor to bleed out in the dying state from 4 minutes to 1 minute. It adds a sense of urgency to help them recover, and if the killer is slugging the misery is over faster so you dont have to wait so long if you dont want to disconnect and not get any bloodpoints or a matchmaking penalty.
Something’s definitely gotta change with how slugging is currently. It’s so bad. I can understand if you gotta do it just a bit when it feels like the game is slipping away from the killer. Also if the killer is going against a full blown bully squad that prioritize breathing all down the killer’s neck for all kinds of saves instead of doing other objectives. I’ve encountered killers fully slugging out the gate without trying to hook anyone a single time. And will even go as far at to let them bleed out and not even chance the 4%. I’ve played killer for thousands of hours as I have survivor and I’ll never see how that play style is fun in any way.
I've seen it and since over buffing totem builds I will not even play as survivor unless I have a 2+ party so that we can have anti slug and anti totem. As killer I try to 12 hook and it only really works if I'm playing really off meta so nobody expects it
I tried the full slug thing as the game's goal but honestly, a lot of the time it feels like I'm trying to swim against the current. There is always one person who hides until all the slugged people crawl in different directions and then it's just re-slugging fiesta. I won. Sure. But it just feels bad reslugging people over and over. Survivors are not stupid they are not going to let you 4 slug.
Thumbnail mentions Basement Dwellers.
Not my hooks :( love you brotha good video and I’m only a minute in
In my opinion they need to just change how new chapters release. Don't include perks with survivors or killers at all. Instead release a new perk for survivors and a new one for killer that everyone can use. This will make it so we get new stuff to play with, but they can take their time by not trying to come up with 6 new perks that break the meta and game. And with the saved time they can focus on adjusting the gameplay and previous perks.
STB is unironically insane if used correctly
IMO,slugging is one of those issues where i don't think bhvr can really do much,because if they make basekit unbreakable,that would direcly kill off killers that RELY on slugging,mosstly oni or tier 3 myers,since from my perspective,they NEED to slug to use their power to the fullest,and by adding basekit unbreakable,it will make those characters straight up unplayable and i think that's why BHVR aren't doing anything about slugging,which i myself don't know what can really be done to fix slugging,besides adding new perkls that counter slugging,but if you have any ideas,feel free to put it out
then they need to let survivors bleed out faster and leave the match.
Devs could add an extra objective/item called "extra surgeon kit" that a survivor can craft at the start of the trial.
Surviors can interact with a surgeon table to create a "portable kit" that they can use later to pick themselves up, if they are getting slugged.
Like again, it takes some time to create such "Litany cure", gives a killer some time to catch up (and it's up to survivors to decide if they want instantly jump onto gens or take a little time to be prepared), while they are crafting their "vitality vials" without applying basekit "corrupt intrevention".
Yes, it's sort of sounds bad, because it means "no gens are getting done = killer is getting more pressure onto you", but it's still better than an absolute zero. I'm sure that there are devs in BHVR that can just sit down and brainstorm such slugging problem in general and everything else in 2 hours (it's just not on their priority yet, sadly).
And I just hope that they won't implement something like "press a button to pick yourself up in exchange of 1/3 of your bleeding bar".
Either force you to not be able to heal someone else without a medkit,
Or nerf every advantage that survivors get when hooked/unhooking.
There's too much advantage in survivors favor when being hooked/unhooked,
That's why slugging exists as a viable route, there's too little advantage for killer to do it.
It might seem like a small change but I think 70 second hooks was a terrible change I have lost several games because they had 10 extra seconds to finish a gen and they don't get punished for ignoring the hook
The research used that suggest slugging is superior is massively flawed because they counted 3K as a loss for hooking games. If you change the data to count 3K as a win then there was no difference between hooking and slugging.
The only times I'll slug is if all the survivors are swarming the hook or if they have a build specifically made to make hooking impossible
Bhvr added an anti slugging mechanic to the 2v8, in exchange for putting your activate-able ability on cool down, you could revive yourself off the ground.
Fallowing that, Survivors could in regular matches, could exchange for reviving themselves, they have their perks deactivated for a certain period of time, or be inflicted with broken or incapacitated for 60 seconds until they wait out the timer or go down again. And to prevent from being instantly reslugged, when the killer is within a 16m radius, survivors are given a 5 second Endurence effect.
The incapacitated status effect would make it less viable for survivors to abuse it by purposefully going down and while giving killers something to generate pressure, while at the same time survivors can force killers to pick up or risk losing the survivor to a self-revive.
If slugging is going to become the new meta, then No Mither would see a spuke in usage. This game is just going around in a viscious cycle.
Unbreakable, Boon Exponential, and Other anti slug have a word so say
BHVR and survivor mains do not understand something fundamental to game balance. Understanding the effects of novelty on match data.
Killer in this game is objectively weak. The game is objectively survivor sided, so then why do killers win as much as they do. Novelty.
You will always perform worse against a new experience, but that doesnt mean its unbalanced or even good.
Capcom added Terry to their game and he had the highest win rate, but they buffed him because they understand how novelty affects match data, and that Terry wasnt actually good. Just novel.
There's also the fact that the devs keep changing what "winning" means.
On top of that, survivors just have too much advantages.
Advantage trumps skill when both have the same skill level.
It's also unfortunate that most survivors can't fathom the killer experience, and what's worse is that they think a "baby" killer experience is the norm, not thinking for a second that matchmaking is often giving them a weak team.
It's not the typical experience.
And they don't play killer much.
It makes it even worse that killers that go to the survivor side fair far and away better than people that purely play survivor.
They rank up quickly and play survivors more often because it's far less stressful.
This leads to one conclusion;
Killers know the game better than survivors.
The game is mathematically survivor sided.
Data means little to nothing without extrapolating and pruning, so
Survivors typically don't know what the data means and bhvr won't tell the whole story.
Bhvr caters to survivors to obtain money because they're the target demographic.
post the slugging guide and take the eats on it. I think you're 100% right even though I hate to admit it. Lemme hit you with this idea tho.
Play for hooks anyway. Let sweatlords who need a win take their ez match. Let them sit in queue with the nasty people who enjoy slugging. BHVR is gonna circumcise the perk roster again when they recognize what's happened
This game has never had balance. It’s always looked like crap visually and played even worse. If they never had any licenses it would have died in 2016. Unfortunately there’s been no Dbd alternative that’s stuck around, so people keep giving BHVR money. They needed to pack up their bags a while ago, they can’t manage this game.
How the fuck did you include visuals? The visuals are amazing.
Yes licences carry, they do for every game.
Dbd alternates have the same issue but less effective.
If you think dbd should end, you should leave instead
I just think they should allow surviors to bleed out on command. Like a reverse Unbreakable. They'll never fix slugging. It does't mean I should have to waste 5 minutes waiting to die to not get a leave penalty.
I dont play survivor, but as a Nurse main it has come to the point where survivors flood my Steam comments with like "+rep Non slugging Nurse", because they are probably used to every killer slugging in this age and day. Its kinda sad to watch, but I am glad I can bring a normal match to the survivors for once ^.^
I can already feel basekit unbreakable coming
Outside of a Slugularity build, 4 man slugging is so stressful for me lol. I know on paper it's the most effective way to secure a win against better teams, but it feels so counterintuitive
It’s really hard because 2-3 gens can fly by fast and there’s no hook progression to make you feel like you’re close to getting someone out. But as the minutes tick by your power grows. Also it’s great because you can immediately get into the next chase pressure gens etc you lose a lot of time hooking and whatnot.
But yeah anyways near the end it ramps up quickly the slug pressure. Once one person is out you can consider hooking but even then often it’s better just to keep slugging because their timers are ran down
Unfortunately you can’t really mix slugging and hooks either as they both are opposite to each other. Either hook or slug.
Camping was an issue, they nerfed that, rightfully so.
It was common to see cause it was effective.
4k Slugging though? That was your 1 in 10 toxic game.
Remember:
There will ALWAYS be bad guys ruining the system.
What is stupid though is leaving no options.
Gen perks, nerfed, chase perks, buffed, Aura perks, buffed.
Anti heal perks? Buffed or reworked to be stronger.
What's left over? Yes, chase around the map and down injured people.
What is the preferred strat for that playstyle? Slugging.
Even something like a Leverage Gift of Pain build.
Hook people, make it hard to heal, slug.
Cause you are creating situations were everybody is injured.
Just give us options BHVR please, cause even now the good guys are converting to slugging.
This is why I always bring Unbreakable
I was a survivor in that knight game and i can see why slugging is so effective, that game could have gone very differently if you went for hooks instead. It was miserable to go against tho, especially since i was playing solo😂 Had killers in the next 2 games do the very same thing except they let everyone bleed to death for no reason T_T playing dbd at 3am is a mistake lol
Also i saw this slugging strategy happen a lot in my matches and was wondering why no one is talking about it. Then i saw this video and I was like 'finally someone is talking about all the recent slugging' only to find myself in the video XD
When Blight came out i knew the Devs cared more for survivors than killers. There were 2 big glitches affecting both sides at the time. Survivors couldn’t hear the Terror Radius sometimes, and killers couldn’t hook survivors sometimes. Not being able to hear is annoying yeah, but its also a gameplay mechanic with undetectable and stealth abilities, so they can still play. But killers not being able to hook? Thats THE core mechanic theyre based around and they couldn’t do it. Guess which one BHVR fixed first?
"When Blight came out i knew the Devs cared more for survivors than killers" ... LOL WHAT?
@ That was the update that came out, nothing to do with Blight himself. Easier to say the killer in the update than the actual chapter name
Tried some of the best slug build aroud recently After that dumb perk that cleary is meant to make the killer life more miserable by preventing a kill and I gotta say the result is crazy becuz absolutly every survivor perks I seen is based aroud the killer hooking and so massive 4k match After match