The Secrets of Shields in Elite Dangeous - Advanced players guide
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- Опубликовано: 13 сен 2019
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Игры
Me at school: Pfft why do I need to know algebra or math in general, I'll never use it.
Me playing ED: I wish I payed attention at school.
You didn't think you would require general math? Without math you can't count, tell time, know the date, never know the amount of money someone gives or takes from you. So what you meant to say was when you went to school you were a moron.
I'm here watching and I think it's easier to learn calculus
Up until now, shields have been a complete mystery to me in this game. The stats didn't seem to make sense and I had no idea where to even start to break it down. In one video you have completely demystified it! Outstanding work! You are like a personal Frontier interpreter. Also loved your spreadsheet work! Total nerd-gasm. Had to show self control to keep my hands above the desk...
That missle boop in the end made me giggle
It also feels the way it sounds.
if you plan to have a tough fight with aggressive and knowledge enemy then you need to get the prismatic shield with max capacity (as recommended here) but if you plan to fight in war zones - then I think that the bi-wave shields will be better because they will recharge... Possibly I'm wrong. So there is no "best shield" because it strongly depends on the situation.
And GREAT GREAT THANKS for author for the work he did. Man, you are great :-) keep going.
You're probably the best elite dangerous tutorial maker I'm going to get. I've spent countless hours looking for answers and I just keep coming back to you. Well done.
I watched the entire video and I don't even play Elite dangerous, WTF.
I hope you are joking. NERD SPOTTED ! :D
Happend to me like two weeks ago.
Today I sold my Hauler and baught a hard earned Cobra Mk III ! Yeeeeah!
C U in game, Commander ;)
Loool i just started playing week ago, its awesome when u learn how to play
What I like most at your videos, is the absolutely well researched content, as also the high quality of your videos and entertainment factor. Since over a year I am watching them besides doing hours of repetitive stuff inside the game ;) I hope you stay continuing for a long time. Thanks a lot! CMDR Morgh
This is so ridiculously detailed and you are a genuine hero for doing it, BUT I'm still just going to plug random shit into Coriolis until my numbers go up. It hurts my brain less that way. Still, damn fine job! EDIT: Until you finish your list, of course. Then I just have to do this with guns and armor and power and...
My shields kinetic resistance was blocking out 80% of the nerd factor. Great work Astro!
Your best Video and the best summary of how elite shield and resistances work, very good work.
I have so much respect for your hard work man. First, I already knew most of this stuff from reading ED reddit and Frontier Forum, but you really did a good sum up. Second : calculating the best possible shield with all the different options. I tried something like that on Excel with many lines and formulas, but I gave up. Way too much work. You, sir, are a nerd god !
Top guide and greatly detailed! Nice to know how the diminishing returns work and when they start to work! Perfect analysis of shields. Keep it up thanks!
Great Work. Thank you very much for diving us so deep inside these mechanics.
Its a pleasure to see your deep digging Video like always Sire 07
Kudos
Well done for doing this Astro. I was looking at all the Shield and Hull stats a while ago knowing there was some kind of correlation among them but didn’t know how to figure it all out🤷♂️. Can’t wait to see what your program is like too 🍻
Exceptional work, good sir! Very impressed by your determination to get to the bottom of the mystery and looking forward very much to the fruits of your mathematical and programming labours :thumbs up:
What I learned from this video... there's a panel on the right where I can see my ship info.
Once finished will be great addition to tools we have. Admiring your analyzing work.
You where right Astro that was Dammed near full on Nerd mode. I'd say I'd have got to the points where if this had been a one to one conversation I would just be nodding and say oh really a lot. But saying that I do look forward to seeing the finishing program I thinks it will be a great help to players... keep up the number crunching...👍
This is truly exciting stuff, excellent work
Very useful, good to understand and well explained video. Thanks a lot and respect to your effort you put into this great game ❤️
My God, you are a very clever man, and whilst all those figures and calculations you threw out at us completely bamboozled me, i salute you sir, and very much look forward to your program which will hopefully tell me the very best shields for my corvette in PvE and PvP. o7 Sir and keep up this damn good work.
Really enjoyed the vid and look forward to the calculated optimised build results.
You have the BEST Elite Video's on RUclips! Thank you!
Nice video, very informative as always :)
Nice work. So the takeaway here is that that the resistance applied by the shield generator is far more significant than from the boosters (assuming the boosters take you over the critical 30%)
Yes
look forward to the calculator, sure it will show a different build combination for FDL as it has more Universal slots
Outstanding work!
I miss the days when these videos were still being made. Time flies.
Excellant as always brother keep up the great work for us sci fi nerds.
Okay, I really want to get my hands on your finished program ! Thank you for the video.
lol, 20:13 - That's perfect shield resistances at play, the missle just bounces off! 🤣
I wonder if there's a way to make a shield that has 100% resistance to something, effectively making you immune to that weapon type
Great video and explanation. my head nearly exploded but in a good way.
Basically, to max the strength of your shield.
-The lighter your ship the more efficient the shield is.
-Shield boosters are added together but do nit effect each other.
-Shield resistance gets significantly less effective once you reduce damage by 30%, but is still effective to stack together
Thanks a lot for that helpful information. :D
I understood every word you said, but when you put those words together into a sentence, then that's when you lost me. LOL 😎
Keep up the great work you do bro
very interesting, I couldn't be bothered to try and do all the math myself, or even be capable, but it's nice to see how
This will save alot of engineering materials, Thank You, DTEA. Once you are done, i will use this alot. I will rewatch this a few times to understand how it works and let the computer crunch da #s. hiya Spycrab :)
Nerdy? This thing is gold! Thanks for all the work.
Basically he is saying lasers go pew! pew! and shields go ffrrwwhh-ffrrwwhh!
Thank you very much for your hard work, CMDR. Carry on. o7
The only way to reduce multiple penalty (because they are saturating the same system) is to have some system module that amplifies the core power in some way or the shield module is load limiting like and underdrive pully can effect the power draw vs power boost. As shields all work under the power supply/distributer system : shield generator, shield boosters, and shield batteries are all drawing continual power. Load against a shield draws additional power in 3 varied ways. shield generators - pips, shield boosters - shield saturation response to sustain vs duration, and shield batteries - expanded surge to stored power (use power at a value to boost power to a value). What would be good is if shield batteries reduces shield booster multiple draw saturation as they have "additional power to draw" reducing full draw on the core power system. It is a real process to measure what works well. Some ships have a real issue sustaining shields while others do not as their systems can be over or under measured in their foundation. I found stacking shields vs layering shields works better and reduces that saturation draw. Not all same but varied layered modules. ABCD vs AAAA or AA or ABB etc. Each seems to deal with that measure of 1-5 that is decided by module selection. That I believe is where you are having that variance. At least that is what I have noticed. Another great vid. Love what you do.
fourth of your videos I ended up watching tonight. The content just wants me to sub! Subbed :D
thanks for your tutorials, im late to the party, but this game really triggers my fanycy, being n eve online "bitter vet" :D
Thanks for all the tuts and info man
What pathetic soul could dislike such a time consuming and indepth study of Elite game mechanics? It could only possibly be 9 wankers.
If an alien spaceship lands on earth, give us medical technology to cure to all illness and immortality there will be a0.001% who will dislike
lol I've noticed this on so many D2EA videos. Thinking 'how could anyone dislike this? On what basis?' He's a white male, so that could account for some... He's also a redhead... Certainly nothing to do with the content, unless it's people who don't like elite, but then why watch it?
@@alaricgoldkuhl155 If Astro was a black female I would still like it. What does his physical being have to do with anything? That would be racist. Redheads are cool and unique by birth. Not needing after market hair coloring like the ordinary do to "stand out". Certainly not the content.
Oh I think they like Elite but they're just too dumb to play it on their own. Pfff, let-alone figure out how it works.. o7
because this "time consuming and indepth study" is wrong
@@tilemacro ironically that would be a much higher number :)
Impressive work! Better you than me :)
I thought you figured out the equation for possible shields in real life but this is also useful.
I avoid combat at ALL costs! Solo mode to avoid players and evade interdiction if at all possible. I was still getting blown to bits. This sheds some light on how to make my shields more effective.
Explorer huh?
just wow .... keep that stuff coming, pls ...
I love nerdy videos
Hopefully all this doesn’t become obsolete in the update next week.
Is there a way to view the hit points in real time of the shield? Is there maybe a third party overlay that displays a numeric value? I would like to see how the Pips effective overall Shield strength in real time.
This is excellent but where can i see my ships hull mass. I know its different than total mass, right?
Can U do a vid describing the basics of engineer upgrades as in what do the grade levels mean, do you put grade 1-4's on ships or only grade 5, how do you move a grade 5 FSD to a different ship if you have a grade 5 FSD on an ASP explorer, do U have to put them on the ship you want them on first, as in fly the Federal Corvette to the Engineer and put them on it there, or can you unlock them to be put on ships later or put them on an ASP to transfer to Corvette later? It's all very confusing.
Nice! Isn't the base base shield strength the value displayed in the shipyard? I'd imagine armor works very similarly to shields?
PS.: Is your program going to include any consideration for Bi-weave hull tanks, as in, for those, heavy duty boosters are not always the best choice. Also, SCBs. Absolute strength only counts once for a traditional shield tank, while resistances also apply to the SCBs added strength. But SCBs can get cancelled / shields drop before they go off.
2 questions:
A- Is the hull mass vs shield strength modifier ranged or absolute? i.e. a 6c shield geny will give max strength benefit of 140% to hull mass min weight of 270, my AspX's hull mass is 280, do I get about 138% strength benefit or is 270 a cliff and a mass of anything over 270 revert to the "optimal" modifier of 90%? (begging the question: if I have lower then 270, do I get higher then 140% benefit)
B- These modifiers refer to "hull mass" not total mass, thus do I only have to consider the bare bones hull mass (280) to apply the modifier, and not how I have the ship equipped, and or what I have in cargo (which easily doubles that original 280 mass)?
this is way above this commanders pay grade !
i havent even figured how to turn the damned thing on
Have you figured out how shield regeneration works? Would like to see a video on the subject.
Nice video! I've started coding my own shield engineering tool in Excel, but I have trouble understanding a thing. In your calculation, you get the final modifier by multiplying the compensated modifier from shield boosters with the modifier from the shield. But you only compensated the modifier from the shield boosters, as you had only 26.9% on the shield. Now, what if I would do something really awkward, like applying a full Kinetic Resistant to shield, giving it more 50% kinetic resistance to the already 40% from the original shield, then strap on a Force Block of 8% ? I did with diminishing returns, like in EVE (1-(1-0.08)*(1-0.5)*(1-0.4)) which gives a 72.4% straight ! Should I apply the half after it, making it a 71.2% ? Or should this soft cap apply only once after all numbers have been factored in (from both shield and boosters) ?
The deminishing return only applies to boosters and not the main shield generator. I have a guide with some more in deep examples here: www.eliteguides.info/guides/shield-mechanics
Well one critical thing wasn´t mentioned, how do shield regeneration works.
Is it continuous ? Does it stops for a while if you take damage ? How do shield boosters affect it ? Is broken shield regeneration any different from normal one ?
Over the years I have read several theories about regeneration It would be good to have some more real math behind those.
All the other stuff in the video the game simply does all the math for you, but still nice to find it all in one place.
This is quite late for a reply but while your shield is active, taking damage halts regen. When it's broken, it uses a different regen rate, the broken regen rate in the stats and it continues to regen as long as you have the power in SYS until you've regenerated 50% of your total shield HP (including the increase from boosters) then the shield becomes active again and it switches back to the normal regen rate, which, once again, will pause if you're still taking damage.
TLDR?
Is it continuous ? Yes
Does it stops for a while if you take damage ? Yes if the shield is up
How do shield boosters affect it ? Longer regen times
Is broken shield regeneration any different from normal one ? Yes, regenerates at a different pace and it isn't halted by damage, needs pips in SYS though
I'm not sure that module reinforcement package for shield is adding shield strenght. IMHO it strenghten module itself. Or I'm wrong?
Did you finish the shield builder project?
Good video. I figured it'd be something like that, but I was too lazy to find out myself. It's a shame that the boosters are so powerful that the best move is usually stack the whole bunch of them. I generally try not to use more than half of my utility slots for boosters and am in a bit of a disadvantage because of that.
I wonder how this is going ?
Did you manage to make the App/Website ?
Could you do something like this, but for heat? I have sone problems on how thermal vent on beams work, or how the PP engineering is working heat wise.
Edit: E.g.
Armoured lowers (or increases? Makes that the PP produces less heat) the heat efficiency, but Overcharged "(in German it was said like this) increases the ability to deal with heat" (somewhat like that, can't check it in game atm).
When it comes to mass to shield strength, did you say only hull mass matters? Is that armor? If it is, does that mean using lightweight armor results in stronger shields?
It greatly depends also what type of ship you are using. the game essentially doesn't care what ship you fly.
Currently my Cutter have 7633 shield points (prismatic), 47% thermic resistance, 64% cinetic resistance and 70% explosive resistance. I suppose that's not too bad. However, I do not use this ship to attack anyone, it's only for defensive purposes.
New ED player here. Did you ever finish the program?
Amazing video as always, i learn nee things on this channel almost every nee video. But for the first time i have to disagree to your goal for this specific subject. What you're trying to do now is basically tell everyone "Hey, the best combos is this plus 3 this modofied like so, and you get the best MAXED shield in the game".
I mean, i have to thank you for doing this and all, but letting everyone know the best cobo is kinda unfair. The whole deal with engineers is for everyone to modify their ships how They feel like, what They thing is best for them, and sure, maybe some people think they have OP shields when in fact they are weak, but that's the point, learn yourself what suits you best , what you need and what you don't.
I would go blam some more but i am a little tipsy, just came home from a 12 hour shift and i am famished.
GJ cmdr
I have a coupe questions :
1-Is the resistance from the base shield generator (not boosters) affected by the diminishing returns threshold?
2-Is there a hard cap for resistances? Having 100% resistance would be game breaking imo.
3-I heard somewhere else that the diminishing returns start at 0.5 not 0.3, is that obsolete or another threshold?
1- no, it would be very odd to include ingeneering calculation with incorrect numbers at the end of process, diminishing returns concern shield boosters stacking only
2- 100% resistance is not possible as the calculation is by "x", not "+". For exemple 8 shield boosters with 25% resistance don't give 200%, they give 0.75^8 modifier = 0.100 => 90.0% resistance.
Let's considering 100% resist is possible. That is a 0.0 modifier, , so it would be 0.7 - (0.7 - 0.0)/2 = 0.35 modifier => 65% resistance for shield boosters after DR calculation.
In other words, 100% is 70% above the 30% cap, so divide per 2 and add 30 => 70/2 +30 = 65% resistance (0.35 modifier)
Eventually multiply your shield generator modifier by 0.35 to obtain the final result.
In the case of a standard shield generator, kinetic resistance is 40% for exemple, that is a 0.6 modifier, so 0.6 x 0.35 = 0.21, that is a ultimate 79% resistance. That is huge but condider this is with a 100% NON obtainable resistance calculation. And only kinetic rsistance, you have to play with huge negative thermic resistance in this imaginary case.
3- this video is a proof that the cap is 0.3 because numbers between his maths and in game stats are correct.
Veey well explain Ultimbanga, and 100% correct.
@@DowntoEarthAstronomy Thank you
Did a bit of tooling around on Coriolis, and it seems you can get your resistance to about 93% if you abandon ALL other resistances, and focus exclusively on kinetic resist. AND if you have all 8 utility slots equipped with shield boosters, also tooled for kinetic resist. Not really practical in the long run, but I guess if you KNEW your opponent was using ONLY multicannons, you could do it, and not have much to worry about. Especially since I got 68,302 effective shield Vs kinetic. That's gonna take a LONG time to wear down! Thermal was at 86% as well. If you cared about that.
It's just hit me, I don't want to play a spreadsheet. I'm glad you do!
I always knew that the diminishing return in resistances were after 0.5, not after 0.7. Did this change?
Example: your (theoretical) resistance to Thermal is 75%. The effective resistance is actually 62.5%, because the part after 50% is halved.
According to this video, the effective resistance would be 52.5%, because the part after 30% is halved..?
Simple interest vs compound interest :-)
Where does the “0.7” barrier come from for resistances?
How do you know this is the case? Why 0.7 and not 0.9 or 0.5?
The 0.7 is just something the game devs decided for balancing. Maybe it was talked about in the live stream mentioned, maybe it was discovered by trial and error.
All we know is it's the barrier FDev set, not any mathematical reason.
The 0.7 limit is set my frontier. I saw it mentioned in a forum post somewhere I then I tested it with several combinations of loadout and it gave the right result every single time.
You have gone above and beyond! Thank you for the explanation. Now to the REAL question... Do you think the ships in Elite Dangerous could be a threat to the ships from Star Wars and Star Trek?
Remember, for Star Wars even the anaconda would be considered a "heavy shuttle" not a "ship"
For Star Trek, IIRC, the Anaconda lands somewhere between a federation runabout & a Bird of Prey
For Star Wars, ED's ships would do OK against similar class vessels.
For Star Trek, the lasers & projectiles would be countered by the navigation shields - but our plasma cannon would match up well
@@muninrob I like your descriptions. I would love to see two Federal Corvettes take on an ISD or three or four Anacondas take on the Star Trek ships.
If the ships in Star Trek are anything like Worf’s fighting ability...
Hello everyone!
the Spycrab
Yeah, wave to your mum. You're on TV.
fast forward to 0.35
I'm not trying to berate, I'm trying to understand and I don't type well so I'm sorry for any offenses. I'm not sure how the diminishing returns was calculated. In the example given in video (RUclips time: 15:09), you had eventually calculated that the kinetic resistance for your ship was 0.398924085 and that you had to calculate how much of that was in diminishing return (70% of total resistance is halved, 30% is full resistances), my math logic told me that subtracting .30 from 0.398924085 would just give me .098924085 which when halved would be 0.0494620425 and due to a flaw in my logic, I can't understand why you took the whole resistance (x) from the entire diminishing return percentage (0.7, giving 0.7 - x) which gave you 0.301075915 and the rest of your eventual calculations, Can you explain your logic to me?
Question, has anyone figured out a way to measure the speed of gravity, here on earth?
No doubt Astro will if you ask him nicely
Never sell a Prismatic Shield Generator
What I'd like to know about shields:
Why is it that when I have shields enemies blow through them in about 2 seconds, but when the enemy has shields I take forever to take them down? I'm using an anaconda. It's not the best shield generator but it shouldn't be THAT bad.
The current dislikes didn't understand. 🤔🤯
there is always someone who needs to see if the button works....
Yeah, why would there be a reason for a dislike on an informational video???
Because some people are plain fools and do it on purpose to draw attention?
My personaly theory is that a good portion of it is misclicks from mobile users. I have caught myself at least once accidentally disliking a vid instead of liking it
Dislikes could come from those that this video went beyond their level of comprehension. Not everyone can absorb stuff like this no matter how it is delivered.
Isn't the resistances calculated on coriolis.io as well?
🤔
Numbers!
16:56 wait you've lost me at B7
Somthing I noticed a few years ago, ergo it's probably been changed, is that some weapons (Kinetic) might have a glancing effect on shields.
Similar to how rounds in real life, bullets, tank shells, etc, may bounce off angled armor. Railguns seemingly can glance off the edge of shields, creating the flair from the impact but causing little to no damage. While if it hits just slightly lower, around a straight hit, the hitscan does the full damage that it should have. Knowing that railguns are, literally, hitscan though causes some problems in that the angle of attack would have to be modeled for the hit to have this actually be a thing and not just a few freak cases of desync.
You should be an NPC engineer in this game.
I can't figure shields out. I'm trying this bounty, and I shoot the crap out of his shields. He gets like two good shots on me and my shields are completely done. Why would the game offer me a mission I have no way in hell chance of completing?
What ship are you in and what are you fighting?
i have been playing for 3 years and still barely understand anything about ship modules and internals
And i still know no more than before, but then i dont speak mathamaticese, this mignt of well been in chineese for all i understood, but thanks for trying anyway, even if it did give me a headache.
Pfft
Who needs shealds when you have RAMMING SPEED!!!?
This is so weird. The Devs make stuff so complicated for no reason. The resistances of shield boosters have and equal effect on your total resistance, but not with the shield strength... why?
Hi i am 49yrs old man I want *"easy start"* tutorial in playing Elite Dangerous
i have NO IDEA what he's talking about
o7
just 1 more like lol
Well I watched the whole thing, was well made and presented but now my head hurts. Can someone simplify it? Is it just haha sheild boosters go brrr?
Constructive criticism: It would be great if you could have formatted the decimals as percentages where they correspond to percentages in the game's cockpit display. It just makes it easier to correlate what's in the video to what's in the game.
killwarent scanner can removed , thay have nerved it , only one more bounty you can scan , not more
O7