Why was Marvin Williams drafted ahead of Chris Paul?
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- Опубликовано: 25 мар 2022
- Marvin Williams was the 2nd overall pick of the 2005 NBA draft. Chris Paul was the 5th pick. In this video, I take a look at the reasons behind Marvin's high draft selection, even though he never lived up to that hype. Enjoy!
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Everyone still miss Andy’s “how good was X player actually” videos ? I mean I absolutely missed these so much
He stopped making them?
Facts
How good Mike Miller was
Nonstop sports does a lot of them. They’re cool. Andy’s vids are better though.
I already knew what u meant
Marvin Williams came into the NBA as a freak athlete whose overall game still needed as a lot of polish. He had a LOT of room to grow.
The player that Paul George became in Indiana was basically the kind of production that the Hawks envisioned from Williams.
The big problem was that the Hawks had just drafted Josh Childress and Josh Smith which took a LOT of minutes from Williams and didn't allow him to develop.
By the time the smoke cleared Williams had played for a bunch of coaches who all had him play a bunch of roles at a bunch of different positions. Was he a 4? Was he a 2? Is he a 3 and D player? A defensive stopper? Who knows because every season he was asked to do something completely different by another coach in another offensive scheme.
If there is one player whose development was truly hampered by the team he was drafted by it is Marvin Williams. He never seemed to complain and just went out and did what the Hawks asked of him wirh the hopes that it would make him a better player. It didn't and that's a real shame.
this is a really good take
I mean.....You're kind of off in your evaluation here and IMO, we saw the reverse in terms of development with Childress.
They only played 3 seasons together.
In his rookie year he was already playing 6 minutes less than Childress and played more games. Nothing significant but note worthy.
By year two Marvin Williams was playing 2 minutes less and starting over Childress. And of course by year 3 he was the full time starter and getting notably more minutes per game.
During this time they also had one head coach, in fact in Marvin Williams entire tenure with the Hawks, they only had 2.
So nothing you said in your post is accurate at all. The Hawks didnt go through coach after coach, Marvin Williams development was prioritized by the Hawks from day one, and they only played together 3 years.
When it comes to their expectations, i definitely don't think it was something that resembles PG. The PG model would have been... Ron Artest probably. But i don't think thats what they wanted, they seemed to want TMac..
I will say this.............. nothing happened to Marvin Wiliams.
This idea... this.... measurement people use that basically says every lottery pick is actually a superstar franchise player in the NBA, but they are temporarily hindered.
Marvin never gave the impression that he had a wide and diverse skill set or could even develop in that direction. Rather he was actually pretty limited and im betting the expectations was simply him perfecting his abilities coming into the league
But this state of confusion you project onto the Hawks and Marvin's development, didnt happen. He didnt start switching to the 4 until like 8 years into his career. Before then he was a 3 and sometimes came in as a backup 2, as every single 3 in the NBA has or will do.
The only group who were confused was the fans, the fans are the one's who place these often ridiculous expectations on players and then when it does not happen, they feel the player didnt live up to his potential or something went wrong or whatever. No, these expectations are arbitrary, inane, and exist in individuals heads. And if you go back and read scouting reports you will see scouts didnt even project his development in that direction.
@@undergrounddojokeyboardcag701 not reading that essay sadly
@@bobbyloveoblock6580 Okay, if 30 seconds of reading is a bit too much for you ill do a TLDR..... You are wrong with basically everything you said. For demonstrated detail, read above.
The difference is that projects like that are usually taken in the middle of the draft. Paul George was taken with the 10th draft pick and was the back up to Danny Granger. Same with other projects like Kawhi and Giannis. They didn't start either, were drafted 15th and we're backups while learning the game.
I mean to be fair , who would’ve thought Marvin Williams would even lasted like 15 years in the league , as a solid bench player to be realistic , everyone thought he would’ve been done like 2018,2019 , but heck I’m still surprised he got drafted a pick high before CP3
Remember the time when there was a debate on who's the better pg between CP3 and Deron Williams? Good times.
D Will was ranked higher a few seasons than CP tho. Of course cp is cp and showed who’s the better player eventually
@@geemoney1982 yup ppl used to put dwill over Paul back in the day
Jerry Sloan would rather have CP3
Chris Paul, Joe Johnson, Josh Smith vs Lebron's Cavs in a 7 game series would have been so entertaining
Then vs Orlando with Dwight would’ve been a fun matchup too.
Don't forget Al Horford and Jamal Crawford.
Al Horford > Josh Smith
@@Israel-nb7ip they would have been way too good to draft Horford in 2007 if they had drafted Paul in 2005
@@Benjofresh you're probably right though CP3 did have an injury his 2nd yr so, had that happened in ATL too, they'd of definitely been in a position to draft Horford that year.
Can I just say that while Marvin Williams never lived up to being a #2 pick, he was still productive & played a lengthy career? I see no reason to shit on the dude.
Andy isn't shitting on him. He had a productive career, but it wasn't worthy of being drafted 2nd overall. That's the truth. Don't confuse speaking facts with hating on someone because they're two different things.
@@chrismathgenius Commented this before I watched.
Yeah definitely, he wasn’t a bust because of a soft mentality or anything like that just was overrated by the hawks scouts
the word bust gets thrown around so often its meaningless now. a busy is a top 5 pick who came in with hype and was so terrible they couldn't even last more than a few years. anyone that plays 10-15 years cant be a bust. they didnt live up to expectations but you cant be a bust and last that long in the league.
Using the number 2 overall pick to get a bench player...that would be very good of a team to do that.
Marvin would have been best if he landed in San Antonio 1000% would’ve been an all star if not for sure a perennial 6th man award winner.
I agree. San Antonio and of course Greg Popovich knows how to utilize every player and playing him at his best capabilities.
Also, the Spurs would be a better fit because he would have a bigger and steadier role on the team, while in Atlanta as Andy said they were over stacked with talent at his position.
I've watched Marvin Williams solidify into a decent role player over the years until his retirement, but I believe that he would've achieved his full potential had he been drafted by a team that was renowned for good player development. Example: Spurs, Warriors, and Nuggets
Spurs maybe but when he was drafted the warriors and nuggets didn’t have the best player development at the time.
I’m still shocked he got picked high because of his high school ranks also , and he did had the size that the young Atlanta Hawks surely needed during that era
Great video Andy! This the type of content that makes my noons on Saturday worth waking up for.
I’ve noticed that many teams who pass on one player for another because of size/build concerns end up paying the price down the road.
I know Portland passed on MJ because they had Clyde. Did they do the same thing when they picked Oden over KD?
@@thepiratepenguin_ yes and also they already had Lamarcus Aldridge
Im certain a lot of prospects have failed because of size/ build in the NBA (quick example Jimmer fredete)
@@thepiratepenguin_ nope. Portland just whiffed on that one. They probably felt oden was a better fit with roy and aldridge. But they just flat out messed up. Why pick a center that's already known to have a leg shorter than the other over a cant miss prospect in durant who avg 27pts 11rebs in college. Plus centers were still valued more back then. But it was just a dumb move on their part. That's why if picking in the top 4. I think teams should just go best player before thinking fit or need.
@@michaelconstantinemiranda2352 Oden looked really promising before all of his injuries though can't deny that.
The 2009-2010 hawks was a good team, they finished 53-29 and had mike bibby, joe Johnson, Josh smith, Marvin Williams, Zaza,
Jamal Crawford and Al Horford
Even as a Hawks fan, I hated the Marvin Williams selection…the Hawks already had a million forwards and no legitimate PG at the time…Billy Knight was trying to build the Pistons 2.0 by picking long players instead of players that can actually play
Andy videos is the only the only thing that bring nostalgia like early 2000's
Great vid. The thought of CP3 on the Hawks with Joe & JSmoove. Oh yeah, I like that team.
I always had him as a role player when i play 2k because he was a good 3 pt shooter
Fantastic video keep it up your doing amazing job
Andy Hoops Saturday video Let’s get it !!!!! ✌️👏👏👏👏👏👏🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
As a Hornets/Pelicans fan I still remember draft CP3 I was so damn happy I just knew he was gonna turn us around dude been my favorite player ever since
I love basketball documentaries like sb nation alex hoops basketball references and specially andy hoops .i just use my headset, turn off the lights and then you fell asleep in no time.😄
Still there were two other solid Point Guards drafted with Raymond Felton, as Marvin Willams also UNC, and Derron Williams.
It was because at the time, the NBA was all about “good guy image” after the Malice in the Palace. CP3 got a lot of bad press for punching Julius Hodges in the nuts. Guarantee if that never happens, CP3 goes 2nd or 3rd.
Before I even watched this that's instantly what I thought of
I totally forgot about that. Yeah that was big deal back then
now we got draymond lmao
My favourite RUclips channel ever🙏🏻
I wish we had took Cp3 as well. Him, Josh Smith, Joe Johnson and Kyle Korver would have been unstoppable. Not to mention Demare Carol's defense.
As someone who was a student at U of I at the time I’ll never forget the hype of that UNC “Fab 5” and although Felton, May, McCants and J Williams had better college careers the best NBA prospect was Marvin.
Don’t forget that Deron Williams was also drafted ahead of CP3 and despite a solid NBA career himself he’s still not the HOF “Point God” that CP3 is.
Back again Andy!! It’s that time!! And I really hope CP3 gets that ring this year!! He does it, he contributes to the trophy, and he’s right up there with Curry and Magic!! He was robbed of it a decade ago and hopefully he wipes out everyone in attaining the one thing missing in his legacy!! The defense, the leadership, the shot selection, and now a second superstar will lead him to the promised land!
Cp3 won't get a ring.
@@NixonMayHaveBeenOnToSomething he was close 2 times before and the rockets warriors series would have been his year if he didn’t get injured so we’ll see
I hope so too. Living in AZ since 2010 I’ve adopted the Suns as my hometown team(still a Bulls fan 1st) and that run last year was everything I had hoped the D-Rose Bulls could’ve done(including embarrassing LeBron).
I knew they were gonna be a playoff contender once they got CP3 but didn’t expect a 2-0 lead in The Finals and nearly a 3-0 lead b4 Giannis took over.
This year’s team is even better and addressed all the deficiencies in last year’s depth especially with McGee and Biyombo at C.
For me the crazy part is at the time was The Heard with Colin saying he would take CP3 with the number 1 pick.
One of the best things to come out of Colin's mouth. It's just that it didn't happen.
he wasn’t just drafted over chris paul. he was drafted over deron williams as well. i wish dwill never got injured. miss the days when cp3 and dwill would go back and forth on which was the better PG.
I’m shocked he got picked that high. The hawks severely regretted the decision to draft a project PF in Marvin while skipping on a top 5 PG in NBA History.
magic, curry, stockton, isaiah thomas, steve nash, kyrie, and oscar robertson all have better resumes
@@thaxtonkeeton3476 kyrie isn’t better
@@trollkenobi6727 these casuals will say any and every name they know just to discredit the point god like he isnt top 5 and not 5
@@afuriousblackman I think he's Top 7
@@trollkenobi6727 that's a fair ranking
Marvin William's career highlight might be when he gave Rondo the clothesline from hell in the 2008 playoffs
Marvin Williams was my go to guy in nba 2k18🔥
I still dont know why the first top 10 picks have the trend to choose potential without watching the level of maturity of the player they will draft first.
That was also back at the days when the world of professional basketball value decently sized bigs (forwards and centers) a lot more than guards, which was why Bogut and Williams got a lot of pre-draft hypes. I also heard that Williams was "very polite and well-mannered" when he was drilling and being interviewed by ATL scouts, and first impressions can be deceiving.
the 1st thing that comes to my mind was Cp3 with Joe Johnson and that Hawks team, very sad.
He deserved it because of what he contributed to that UNC title team. Look at his NBA career not an All-star, but very good. Not a bust! Was so great in Hawks playoff teams.
So he should have be drafted over cp3 ?? Lmao 🤣 stop it
A young, prime Marvin Williams would’ve been excellent in the modern day, positionless NBA. He was a decade too early.
thats a great thumbnail andy 🔥
I love Williams so much ❤️
Andy so underrated
We want more videos!
Another great video Andy..J smooth,,Cool Joe and CP3 would have been deadly..that team for sure makes a finals appearance..only worry would be Smith and Cp3 clashing..I only say that because Smith got the big..starting shooting 3's like crazy and got lazy..talent alone though,,they make a finals..
Marvin Williams had a solid Career
HE GOT DRAFTED OVER A HALL OF FAMER
Stfu
Because of the NCAA Tournament bias. Marvin played on a team that went further, thus he got overrated. Luckily this doesn’t happen as much now. Draft on overall sample size instead of short fluky tournament shit that has little to do with individual player greatness
Same thing happened with Michael Kidd-Gilchrist.
That means nothing
So basically the nba sucks ass at evaluating talent
The 2000's era of nba scouting. Lot of silly draft back then.
@@skywalker2759 Yes. Because NCAA hoops was bigger back then and people overvalued the tournament. Now that NCAA is much less popular and there are more development routes, scouting is forced to being better
The draft is always a huge gamble you never know how players that look like superstars are going to develop,how many of their skills are going to properly translate to the NBA etc
Dude was awesome in fantasy basketball
I remember the Hawks actually needed a PG, but they decided to pick up Speedy Claxton in free agency. Think about that, the Hawks chose Speedy Claxton over Paul.😳
And he barely played.
Marvin is good player, all media and scouts put the huge hype for players also. For me he lived expectations after this video. He did his best and stayed for 15 seasons.
Could you do a video on D-Armstrong?
Top 10, definitely. He’ll make top 5 if he wins a chip before his career is over
U mean top 10 players or pgs?
For me he needs to be a major contributor to a championship team. If wins a ring coming of the bench ala Gary Payton it doesn't change anything. Everyone on my personal top 5 PGs list was the 1st or 2nd best player on the team. Not bumping Isiah or Oscar off the list for a 40 year old guy playing 18 minutes a game and averaging 8 pts when he finally won a ring.
This is the year with my suns 👌🏼👌🏼
If Iam not wrong Marvin williams had huge potential. He had the potential to become a 2 way all star, but lack of minutes, wrong position, and injuries fucked up
Billy Knight could have built an amazing team in Atlanta in the mid 2000s. Knight was gifted some easy, no-brainer selections at the top of the draft in 2003, 2004, and 2005 that he brutally fumbled.
Drafting and building teams in hindsight is always easy to criticize, but in Atlanta the overwhelming consensus immediately after those draft selections was that he missed, big time.
andyyyyyyyyy is the goat
As a hawks fan, this never fails to crush me
He is a top 10 PG. IMO there is just no way into the top 5 without a ring. CP3, Nash,and Stockton are lumped together as greats that never got any hardware.
First player ever to get 20k pts and 10k assists. Only LeBron after has done this
We need a video about sprewell
That draft was CLEARLY FIXED for the choices that were made. Its clear they wanted CP3 in L.A some how some way to boost the clippers up. Marv was a decent player overall and he could have easily helped a contender given the chance.
The fuck you smoking? CP3 was drafted by New Orleans
I'm going to watch this video because as a lifelong Hawks fan I'm genuinely curious to know how this video is any longer than "Billy Knight was a terrible GM" the end.
Ty
Damn history repeats itself, because we did the same thing with Cam Reddish
Chris Paul was tagged as 'Point God' at Wake Forest. MW was a UNC one hit wonder.
Because the Atlanta Spirit group was the worst thing to happen to the hawks. Pau Gasol was traded for the Draft pick that became Josh Smith
I remember CP3 putting Dwight Howard on a poster...he had insane athleticism
Cp3 legacy would be much more different if he play for the hawks as like what Andy said the east was not as good as the west
I am so confused. Hawks I thought at least looking back needed a guard but take another wing when they had josh smith and I think childress?
They traded for Joe Johnson that same summer too…they also had Al Harrington too🤦🏾♂️
@@KingJaymo2k11 didn’t they trade for Joe Johnson like for so cheap that anyone would make it. But yea that’s 5 forwards on the roster
It must really disappointing to see a player taken ahead of D-Will and CP3 never panned out but he did lasted the longest and had a strong finish to his career.
I remember one of my high school teammates at the time questioning why all the “experts” are all considering Marvin an elite athlete. His reasoning was that his vertical was only 1 inch higher than Boguts. I tried to explain to him their is more to being an athlete than jumping high such as speed, quickness, balance, change of direction, etc. my teammate turned out to be correct even though his reasoning was garbage.
His Nba comparison coming out of scouting report was Tmac, but came no where close. lol..
It would be cool if they drafted him to Atlanta
We still recovering over this pick
Oh early 2000s basketball.
My time lol
Went to high school with Marv. We all thought he was the next Grant Hill with his ball handling, shooting and personality. Nicest dude who respected everyone and didn’t let it all go to his head. I think if the Spurs or Heat drafted him he’d have a different career. Something like a prime Danny Granger. Good dude though
I wondered that too, even at the time. UNC was good, but that 4 star starters, plus Marvin Williams as freshman. Duke was good, but they had Reddick, Williams, and Deng. Wake Forest was good, and all they was Chris Paul, who was a frehsman/sophmore. I remember just watching him and thinking if there was really any better point guard? He was too athletic, too smart, too competitive, he had EVERYTHING going for him. Aside from his height, what could scare off teams? I mean, AI was even shorter, a superstar at the time, AND was drafted 1st overall in his draft. Yea, AI was more athletic, but CP was more everything else, AND STILL EXTREMELY ATHLETIC!
Andy, can you make a video on Derrick Coleman?
Hey Andy, can you do Memo Okur video?
ANDY I NEED THE INFO ON DEMAR DEROZAN, he is such a good player but his numbers have to show some similarities. I need to know! ANDY PLEASE
Coming into the NBA, I looked at Marvin Williams as the next Scottie Pippen type small forward.
A prime CP3 with a center like Horford and J-Smoove would have been interesting. Between 2005-2011, a legit chance to reach at least one final, but after that, i don't think so. Maybe healthy overall after 2011, they might have been just as strong as those 2013-2014 Pacers.
Especially when considering he could’ve been teammates with Jamal Crawford in 2010-2011, that’s a scary lineup 🤭
To me a team that has CP3, Joe Johnson, Jay smoove, Horford and J crossover as a backup has finals potential 💪🏽
That thumbnail tho 😂😭
That is true. If the hawks took CP instead, i would imagine him lobbing up Josh Smith to the moon, setting up Iso Joe to easy buckets, and maybe later on setting up Kyle Korver to open threes wider than a parking lot.
I'd say he still won't have a chip today, but a few finals appearances and MVP-caliber performances would have cemented him as a legit top 5 PG by now.
Man you should totally make a video about if Luka is the modern day Larry bird and how their stats compare. I think if Larry bird came up in this generation he would be just like Luka. His game is a modernized version of Larry’s
Make a video on why Johnny Flynn and Ricky Rubio were drafted ahead of Steph Curry
At least Marvin Williams was good in NBA2K. Back in the days when I still played NBA2K MyCareer (2K13-2K17), I hated playing against the team he was in because he would almost always end up the top scorer on that team.
hey andy can you make a video
on how good is christian laettner
showing that north carolina 2005 scoring list and seeing sean may on the top. should do a video on him since he was terrible in the nba
I played against Marvin Williams in High School & he was IMPOSSIBLE to guard or hit the hoop against. I understand he wasn't "CP3" but he ended up to be the longevity player a lot of his draftees couldn't even come close to. Stop the comparison & focus on his intelligence for at the game. Also such a great guy for our community here in kitsap county, WA. I'm sure he stuck around the NBA also cause of his knowledge and experience of the game for the now stars in the NBA
Marvin Williams had a long productive career so it's not like he was bad
Reminds me of Patrick Williams getting drafted by the bulls
Damn cp3 got some big arms in the thumbnail
Nice.
I remember Dick Vitale basically saying that Chris Paul was going to be the best player in this draft.
When the Jazz took Deron Williams before Chris Paul I was shocked. Deron was better earlier in their careers. But Chris Paul obviously is the greatest from that draft.
Marvin Williams was like Harrison Barnes to me, Uber athletic just needed the right situation to flourish.
imagine Chris Paul running around with Josh Smith and Josh Childress
Big Marv had it goin on
Had me thinking that was Dwight on the thumbnail with that editing lol
There was a time when Marvin Williams was considered the top ranked prospect in that 2005 draft. In fact, Milwaukee was considering taking Marvin over Andrew Bogut. ESPN that year also rated Marvin at number 1 pick status. The guy was raw, but if he turns out to be a superstar, then it's worth taking. By the way, Marvin's status and analytical stats was better than Bogut. He even played more than Bogut and gotten more production in the same minutes played. I think it would have been a toss up between the two on who would have been number 1. I think Paul would have been considered if TJ Ford wasn't coming back to the Bucks at that 2005 to 06 season and that dude was a lottery pick for the Bucks two years prior.
Why do people ask these questions? Like isn't the draft number placed on how good the player was in college? There's no telling what'll happen in the NBA, they want teams to predict the future?
CP3 my guy but Deron Williams used to give him problems. Could’ve been just as good or even better all time. CP3 in Atlanta woulda been crazy.
We don’t talk about that
Who knows what dude was like personally or what kind of fire he did or didn't have to make it in the game, but player development might have been a problem too? Look at all the Hawks picks from the 2000s, the only names that stick out that ever played a game for the Hawks are Diaw, Teague, and Horford, and Josh Smith. Teague and Smith had awfully similar careers, kinda topping out around 15ppg and then regressing. But it's fascinating that Diaw and Horford had plenty of success after leaving ATL, and then almost every other pick 1st or 2nd that ever played a game for them was a complete washout? Oh, and then of course they had Josh Childress, who was like "I'd rather go cash these checks in Greece than play for yall".
You can't just draft guys and hope for the best, you gotta have the organization, and coaching, to get the best out of each guy.
What ever happened to the role players who played with the 2011-2014 Miami heat teams with the big 3??
When me and my homie used to make fantasy squads in 2k20, whoever ended up with Marvin Williams ended up winning 95% of the time it made no sense 😂
I still have my copy of nba live 06, always took paul in fantasy draft over the the half breed williams
Williams used to drop 30 on your head on 2k my player back in the day