I feel like it's hard to find any proponent of non-monogamy who doesn't talk about monogamy in critical, almost unredeemable terms, and resorts to appeals to nature or the tired anecdote that monogamy "doesn't work" to make their case for something else. Love is just generally difficult, no matter how people do it--I don't know that anyone's doing people favors by relentlessly comparing more open and more closed relationships to suggest one is better than the other. Also, come on, it sucks when one person can't be proud of their relationship without suggesting they're necessarily denigrating other forms of love (e.g. Dan's response to Jayson's admission that he was proud of his monogamous relationship--which is quite different than Jayson saying he's proud of monogamy). I really appreciated Jayson's questions and responses, and this made me want to listen to more (although I realize I'm late to the channel!). But man, after being on board with what Dan was saying, I ended up disagreeing with some core elements of his ideas. The fact that some people cannot satisfy 100% of people's sexual fetishes, and are unwilling to permit their partner to find someone else to do so, doesn't really seem like reason enough to open a relationship or discount monogamy--within certain limits. Like, I might be willing to maintain a monogamous relationship in which my partner won't share a narrow fetish of mine, as long as much of the rest of our life is fulfilling. I also think it's important to recognize the limits and challenges of life, I guess? There's something noble, and very hard, about finding joy and growing in the face of limits that are beyond your control. I feel like monogamy--if done well--requires that ethos. Because you're trying to balance other people's expectations and desires with your own, and they're never going to fully align all the time. But I dunno, I think in a time of just relentless consumption and personalized algorithms, people just think they can have whatever they want, and that it's unnatural to face limits on what or who they consume.
I have always had trouble with monogamy and I didn't know what was wrong with me because that is what I was supposed to do, and monogamy was supposed to make me happy. It did not AT ALL, it had the opposite effect. I heard Dan Savage speak about polyamory and what it was (on Savage Lovecast) and I finally realized what was really going on. I will never forget that moment. So much gratitude for that man.
Nice to hear a discussion on this topic based on sanity and a much more accurate and realistic assessment of the issues involved. I respect that Dan Savage validates variations of both monogamy as well as non-monogamy, but calls for a much more honest discussion to decide on what is best for individuals.
I love his comment when he said something about how many expressions of diversity in sexuality within the Pride celebration there are, but yet there is only one largely dominant version of monogamy. That blew my mind. Amazing interview. Thank you!
I'm fine with this discussion - in fact it's very valuable. The only thing that bugs me is the constant use of "fuck" to describe sex. It's a hetero term. Let's just say "have sex with someone else."
Hetero monogamish couple here, and we don’t claim/own the word “fuck”…. anyone is welcome to say it. It does make me kind of uncomfortable when people try to control/dictate other peoples speech though… Words are words.. they belong to everyone, and everyone has freedom to use them as they please! 😁
I honestly don't hear much in the way of trashing monogamous people here, and honestly his potty mouth engages a lot of people in the same way it turns others off. If you've ever seen a joint interview with Dan and Esther it's hilarious how they basically agree on everything.
My husband and I (17 years) love monogamy, but we’re monogamish and also like to explore and experiment… I feel very comfortable and accepted here. 😁 Humans are so infinitely diverse, that it only makes sense to me support and celebrate every person in finding their preferences and place.. 💜
'fck' people here.. 'fck' people there. In the beginning, I found this guy's terminology, and the way he was talking, quite triggering for me...aggressive..nonchalant and cold. Life isn't all about eroticism and wanting to just 'fck' people (is it? If it is, I find that depressing), however I get that he's just being honest. And I do appreciate all perspectives, there are some valid points in this conversation, but I think I prefer Esther Perez's take on things...being aware of the duality of needs in relationships (adventure/novelty vs. stability/security) ..being honest about our needs and desires, but creating space within a relationship for this dance...withought going off to search for other lovers. Tricky conversation..and I do see the complexity, and pros and cons of mono/poly amoury...it all depends on the individuals and the context. But personally, my nervous system needs mono :)
Same… my husband and I love monogamy (17 yrs), but we’re monogamish in brief/short spurts… it’s fun exploration, but our nervous systems also prefer monogamy for its security and stability.
I feel like it's hard to find any proponent of non-monogamy who doesn't talk about monogamy in critical, almost unredeemable terms, and resorts to appeals to nature or the tired anecdote that monogamy "doesn't work" to make their case for something else. Love is just generally difficult, no matter how people do it--I don't know that anyone's doing people favors by relentlessly comparing more open and more closed relationships to suggest one is better than the other. Also, come on, it sucks when one person can't be proud of their relationship without suggesting they're necessarily denigrating other forms of love (e.g. Dan's response to Jayson's admission that he was proud of his monogamous relationship--which is quite different than Jayson saying he's proud of monogamy).
I really appreciated Jayson's questions and responses, and this made me want to listen to more (although I realize I'm late to the channel!).
But man, after being on board with what Dan was saying, I ended up disagreeing with some core elements of his ideas. The fact that some people cannot satisfy 100% of people's sexual fetishes, and are unwilling to permit their partner to find someone else to do so, doesn't really seem like reason enough to open a relationship or discount monogamy--within certain limits. Like, I might be willing to maintain a monogamous relationship in which my partner won't share a narrow fetish of mine, as long as much of the rest of our life is fulfilling. I also think it's important to recognize the limits and challenges of life, I guess? There's something noble, and very hard, about finding joy and growing in the face of limits that are beyond your control. I feel like monogamy--if done well--requires that ethos. Because you're trying to balance other people's expectations and desires with your own, and they're never going to fully align all the time. But I dunno, I think in a time of just relentless consumption and personalized algorithms, people just think they can have whatever they want, and that it's unnatural to face limits on what or who they consume.
Yo , thanks a ton for the thoughtful comment. well said. great points and considerations all around
I have always had trouble with monogamy and I didn't know what was wrong with me because that is what I was supposed to do, and monogamy was supposed to make me happy. It did not AT ALL, it had the opposite effect. I heard Dan Savage speak about polyamory and what it was (on Savage Lovecast) and I finally realized what was really going on. I will never forget that moment. So much gratitude for that man.
Thanks!
Nice to hear a discussion on this topic based on sanity and a much more accurate and realistic assessment of the issues involved. I respect that Dan Savage validates variations of both monogamy as well as non-monogamy, but calls for a much more honest discussion to decide on what is best for individuals.
Thanks for commenting!
Good for you Smart Couple guy for exploring this subject.
And thank you for having such great audio!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Here because of Dan Savage....
but interesting site.
"I must investigate some more"
first time on RUclips huh?
Thanks for commenting!
I love his comment when he said something about how many expressions of diversity in sexuality within the Pride celebration there are, but yet there is only one largely dominant version of monogamy. That blew my mind. Amazing interview. Thank you!
It bums me out more people haven’t heard this, I think there’s great commentary on freedom and it’s importance happiness in a relationship
Thanks for your feedback!
I'm fine with this discussion - in fact it's very valuable. The only thing that bugs me is the constant use of "fuck" to describe sex. It's a hetero term. Let's just say "have sex with someone else."
Hetero monogamish couple here, and we don’t claim/own the word “fuck”…. anyone is welcome to say it.
It does make me kind of uncomfortable when people try to control/dictate other peoples speech though…
Words are words.. they belong to everyone, and everyone has freedom to use them as they please! 😁
I honestly don't hear much in the way of trashing monogamous people here, and honestly his potty mouth engages a lot of people in the same way it turns others off. If you've ever seen a joint interview with Dan and Esther it's hilarious how they basically agree on everything.
My husband and I (17 years) love monogamy, but we’re monogamish and also like to explore and experiment…
I feel very comfortable and accepted here. 😁
Humans are so infinitely diverse, that it only makes sense to me support and celebrate every person in finding their preferences and place.. 💜
'fck' people here.. 'fck' people there. In the beginning, I found this guy's terminology, and the way he was talking, quite triggering for me...aggressive..nonchalant and cold. Life isn't all about eroticism and wanting to just 'fck' people (is it? If it is, I find that depressing), however I get that he's just being honest. And I do appreciate all perspectives, there are some valid points in this conversation, but I think I prefer Esther Perez's take on things...being aware of the duality of needs in relationships (adventure/novelty vs. stability/security) ..being honest about our needs and desires, but creating space within a relationship for this dance...withought going off to search for other lovers. Tricky conversation..and I do see the complexity, and pros and cons of mono/poly amoury...it all depends on the individuals and the context. But personally, my nervous system needs mono :)
Same… my husband and I love monogamy (17 yrs), but we’re monogamish in brief/short spurts… it’s fun exploration, but our nervous systems also prefer monogamy for its security and stability.
Glad for you. I'm not sure why he needs to trash others who don't live as he does. Lots of assumptions here.