Me, a Daemon player, watching the new rules releases: "Ooooooooohhhhh...... Oh nooooooooo......" I lol'd at GW's official how to play Daemons article. "Hey guys uhhh, just like try to win. Basically everything is worse for you though."
The Daemons really need to be able to pair up for free with the CSM or Thousand Sons, etc. Gotta be some good way to balance it. It's fluffy and crunchy. When I first got into 40k with 8th ed. I couldn't understand why I couldn't take the daemons that were in my book without having to build another detachment for daemons and get that book, etc. too
Comeptitive power gamers would ruin it for everyone within days. That's why you get so heavily penalised for soup lists now. Why would GW put more thought into their rules to prevent abuse, when they can simply spoil it for people who play for fun?
I have 700€ of Tzeentch boxes still in shipping from a single order in May, and it's too late to cancel the order. Now I'm thinking wow sure hope that's not been a waste :O
Try them in AoS. If they don´t get murderd in the next Pointsupdate in the next 2 weeks they are a top tier army with cool and realy strong mechanics. Thats the nice thing about Daeoms, you can just play them in the other System if they have a rough time in your mainsystem for a few months.
@@silent8366 Haven't tried AoS at all so far, I am only playing 40k for about a year and a half, and I think I'd like to "master" (or just get better) 40k before starting a new system.. Thanks for the tip anyway!
It hurts that GW stopped soup, Chaos souping was a given and worked really well. Now you can play CSM and summon demons. I also am sitting on a bunch of demon units.
I played 3 test games with 9th edition rules, at 1700 pts (pre-leak). I won every single one. Here's the list LoC: warlord(-1dmg), robe, exalted (random). Gaze of Fate, Infernal Gate WoK Bloodthirster: Grmakht, Exalted (Random) Bloodthirster oIR: Armor of Scorn, Exalted (Random) 2x 5 Nurglings 1x 20 Bloodletters with icon and instrument. banner of blood. Denizens 2x 5 Flamers 1x 5 Screamers 1x Soul Grinder of Tzeentch. (Points for summoning DP of Tzeentch) Start with 4CP Use strats to interrupt combat, MW from flamers, Screamer Strat, and nurgling strat. Strategy: nurglings hold your backfield and scout deploy to hold another outer objective. LoC parks on an objective and summons tzeentch prince. Charge Bloodthirsters/Soul Grinder up with flamers for screens/screenclearing. Use screamers to tag/kill artillery. Took engage on all fronts and thin their ranks. Left the 3rd secondary open depending on opponent's list. I played against mech marines twice (different players) and Kronos/kraken tyranids once. Worked for me, might work for you. You could replace the bloodthirsters with KoS.
I like the list, however those bloodthirsters are a points liability. They can hit like trucks, but they go down with a pittance of shooting. The list will really struggle against any army that can muster the shots to put down both infantry and the monsters. Against knights this list will struggle to kill them when your big monsters die turn one, and against an army like guard it’s just gonna get shredded. There’s a lot of good ideas, but right now in a competitive sense I don’t think mono daemons are gonna see the top tables anytime soon.
@@gfdgfd2864 Shooting at what, with their 4+BS (3+TC) at models that possibly can't be targetted behind Obscuring terrain? It's not planet bowling ball sir... You're looking at a T7 16W 3++ Invul 6+FNP LoChange, 2x T7 16W 2+Sv/4++Invul BThirsters, a T7 14W 4++ Invul S'Grinder, hidden Nurglings/Screamers/Flamers, d'strike Flamers/Bloodletters? Dude, it's genuinely an awesome strategy... God help you if you meet this army with that attitude. The Emperor only protects winners :D
I really NEED you guys to do an army showcase video on these guys - some incredible diversity in model ranges AND paint schemes in here - exactly what chaos daemons should be. It needs to be long and spend time on each and every unit in here - I love the look of this force!
I think Khorne Daemons could be interesting in 9th and seem like the biggest winners overall, the board is smaller, skull canons and soul crushers love the heavy change rules and seem points efficient.... The points for Khorne were hardly touched and the bloodletters are probably the troop least effected by running them in smaller units, in that they only get +1 to hit for units of 20 and if you really want that back you can take a skull master for the locus of decapitation. On top of that the Bloodthirsters or Skarbrand give you an excellent answer to morale and are arguably the best exalted daemon upgrades too. The khorne daemons also got some of the best stratagems for keeping chariots alive, All the while the 5 turn limit removes a lot of the fragility of army as a whole. I definitely don't think they are the strongest daemon faction but I think with the rules changes and current points they are the daemon faction which pulled out the best for it. On top of abhor the witch being a dream scenario LOL
OMG, I love your optimism sir! I too love Skull Cannons! Take 3 & Double Summon with a DP on T1 to get 5! T2 for 7 FTW! Woop :D (Soul Grinders I think? Will have to look into them again... 180pts was a bit pricey, but awesome if they're untouched) 30 Bloodletters with the Banner are super scary for any opponent. They don't care about Blast from D'strike & the new overwatch & morale actually helps them. Karanak is always fun & the Bloodcrushers could be interesting with PAwake...? Love the comment :)
Yeah but saying a Daemon faction got stronger would be like rolling a paralyzed boxer into the ring and claiming he lasted a couple secconds longer this time😂
Just to ask, specially regarding Slaanesh Daemons. The 2 CP to disengage strat (Desperate Breakout) is strong against the daemons, but wouldn't the Contorted Epitome be amazing in those situations? The Strat is used on a unit that didn't move and is engaged. It rolls the D6s and for every 1 kills a model. If the unit survived those D6s, then it can Fallback. When falling-back the Contorted Epitome's ability is activated, rolling the 3D6 and comparing the sum with that unit's Ld, in which the roll is equal or bigger, the unit fails to fall-back. Doesn't this mean that you can force your opponent to pay 2 CP, risk losing models and still do absolutely nothing?
Slaanesh laughs at these 9th edition rules changes. They treat combat almost exactly the same as 8th, while gaining the most from the reduced overwatch
I just looked at "Command Re-Roll" and the list is "hit roll, wound roll, damage roll, saving through, advance, charge, psychic test, deny the witch test or the number of attacks" It doesn't look like you can use "Command Re-Roll" to reroll Moral, let alone cheese Sloppity Bilepiper's extra dice to phish for more 1s =(
Oooooh, well spotted sir *claps* N1! ;) I totally bought into that without even considering the new limitations... #8thLag ...You could you use a 'Gaze of Fates' re-roll in your own Morale phase, but you will probably need it in your opponents Morale phase tbh =/ Still, a 33.3% chance of a 1 on 2D6 is much more viable with the new Morale rules. Previously your opponent would/could force you into 2CP or risk losing the entire unit =)
@@ankharimcv9104 Yeah, I would still run a Bilepiper, especially since you can only auto-pass moral once during the entire battle. For 65 points in the new edition I think its a no-brainier. Only thing hard about my mono-nurgle list is trying to run all the HQs I used to. I either lose 2CP to bring some Daemon Princes in a patrol or just run the 3 heralds in a battalion and dont bother with the princes now they're 30points more expensive than they used to be.
@@18120polls Have you considered Summoning in more Characters rather than using another Detachment? There's a 1CP Strat to double summon... ;) You don't get the Locus tho... =( The Fec Maw has Summoning buffs (it doesn't cost any CP, since the 1CP gets refunded if your W'lord detach is Nurgle) & I'm sure there's another Strat for Summoning on 3D6 and ignoring penalties... ;)
Almost every source that talks about Raise the banners high saying essentialy what is mentioned in this video "the enemy can remove a banner by moving a single model within 3" of the objective" Unless im missing some rule somewhere that states otherwise, If your unit that raised the banner is still on that objective then a single enemy model will not bring the banner down unless you move away from the objective unless they are objective secured and you are not. If your unit that raised the banner is ObSec then its incredibly difficult for the enemy to remove the banner as they would need to have more obsec models in range of the banner to take it down becuase the enemy needs to "control" the objective to be able to take down the banner. The exact wording without dictating the whole secondary rule says "... (the banner is "removed" if your opponent controls the objective marker at the start of any phase)..." This seems completely opposite to what is stated in the video at 17:51 If i am wrong i would love someone to point me to a rule im forgetting or misreading.
What I find interesting is that with the screening plague drones I have the similar idea with seeker chariots, hellflayers, seekers, and fiends and I am building an army around the chariots running up the board getting that board control, and then blobs of 20-30 deamonettes following up behind. Hopefully the blobs will be targeted by the heavy blast weapons as a distraction carnifex. So the 2000 point list of mono slaanesh is 3 patrol detachments, 1x foot herald 2x infernal enrapturesses 2x hellflayer Heralds 1x Deamon prince, wings, axe 2 x 30 deamonettes 1x 20 deamonettes 6x fiends 20x seekers 2x seeker chariots so all the fast moving chariots are running up screening, and charging as much as possible just trying to cause as much havoc as possible and really trying to take advantage of the smaller table size with the fiends maybe split into smaller groups making falling back impossible for anything because of their no fall back rule. then the deamonettes can pretty much walk around taking objectives and eventually joining the frey if they can. As a side note, first video I have seen of this channel and I am excited to see more specifically with deamons.
As someone who is completely new to 40K, this is the army that I want to play! A lot of people told me that it was going to get worse, but I just love the idea of them and will tough it out! My FLGS is having an escalation league for 40K and for AoS, and I want to go with chaos daemons. Does anyone have any ideas on how to get started with them at 500 points?
I say your best bet is to get one of the start collecting boxes for one of the chaos gods that you like the most. If you don't have a specific one just yet you could just go get the ...i think its called wrath of rapture box. That has quite a few models which features the demons from Khorne and slaanesh.
I would recommend picking a Daemon faction (Khorne, Slannesh, Nurgle or Tzeentch) and buying the Start Collecting box twice, then rounding it out with one additional purchase (either a Herald, or an additional box of troops). This page does good reviews of the starter boxed contents and what they have in them , how many points they are, and if theyre good or crap. ageofminiatures.com/start-collecting-daemons-of-tzeentch/ :) theres the Tzeentch one (as i think its the best value). Hope this helps!
As someone who started Daemons in 40k and used them as an entrypoint for AoS I can only advice you to do it the outher way around. Even though I personaly like their rules in AoS much more the main reason for prefering AoS over 40k is the fakt that you´ll need less models to get started. The difference is around 33% in points. The disadvantage you´ll have is that in AoS the armys are primarely monofaction and you may need some AoS exclusiv stuff like a terrainpice, a few Mortal Characters or Endless Spells depending on your list and chosen faction. In my opinion thats not realy that big of a deal and still better then starting off with way a bigger army. As for Startingpoints: Nurgle Start Collecting is great. You may not use the Nurglings much in Aos but they still have their uses and the rest of the units are core of the army in both systems. Also the Drones are super scary in AoS if buffed up properly. Tzeentch Start Collecting is also good. Just all the core units but for AoS you´ll need 2 Boxes ofBlue/Brimstones Horros aswell, since Horrors have the Splitrule integrated in their Points and you´d be ad a huge disadvantage if you don´t use them. Also caution since they get a Pointsupdate in the next 2 weeks. Since their new Battletome ( AoS Kodex) they are absurdly strong and surely get a nerf in Points. If not nerft into oblivion pick up a Lord of Change in addition and you´ll have the base of a top tier army. For Khorn and Slaanesh: I don´t play them in Aos and in 40k they are only small Allies so take this one with a grain of salt. I think the "Wrath and Rupture" Box may be a bit better to start your Army with then the Start Collecting Boxes but its so close that i´d stay with the Start Collecting if you have noone to Split it with or realy want the modells from both sides. Hope I was of some help and maby enlighten me on Khorn and Slaanesh if someone has more experience with them.
gfd gfd, no, we don’t, all of our good units just got absolutely slammed by the points. All our troops went up a stupid amount of points. All of our transports, which are a core of every list, went up more than 25 points. Our primary anti tank weapon, the dissentigrator cannon, went up 10 points. Our vehicles went up. Our Talos’ and grotesques went up. All of our wargear such as venom blades and archite glaives went up a stupid number of points, making our characters skyrocket. Not to mention they nerfed fly, which all our vehicles have, nerfed multiple detachments, capped modifiers, and loads of other things that just... absolutely destroyed the dark eldar. We’re in this shit together.
@@McWerp Yeah, I think they said they wouldn't because they don't play or own them; which I genuinely appreciate... They're must be loads of other stuff out there on sisters? Tbh T3 3+Sv ignoring AP-2, Organ Missle Launchers, Penitent Engines etc... what else do you need dude? :D
@@NatTheWise Ahriman, a DP, 2x5 Rubrics, 30 Tzaangors, 3x10 Scarab Occults... play around with unit sizes, a Shaman, Rhinos & sorcerers ;) More fun & interesting if you take onboard their ideas for LoChange, Flamers & Sreamers in a patrol =)
You cannot use the command point reroll to reroll morale with sloppety bilepiper since its not a hit, wound, damage, saving throw, advance, charge, psytest, deny the witch or number of attacks with a weapon.
Is it possible to exalt multiple daemons? I thought this was a stratagem and thus one use only per phase? Or doesn't that count for pre-battle stratagems?
@@OllyWood688 Pre-battle stratagems are not used in any phase so yes they can be used multiple times (unless specified otherwise by the stratagem wording itself).
Let’s face it. All the cute tricks you can do, is countered heavy with guns. Just Exalt your KoS and hope your opponent focuses on them all game so you can Raise Banners.
The Kos & LoC both wreck face & are disgustingly resilient with the Wistealer Relic & Sinistrous Hand then the Impossible Robe & 6+FNP regen =D 500pts (8th) of distraction carnifex :)
I wonder if we're gonna get a khorne daemonkin/hedonites of Slaanesh type codexes like in 7th edition/age of Sigmar that lets you play daemons and csm together, and create alternate conditions for summoning. (Blood points/depravity)
GW is becoming increasingly reliant on power armour (or power armour equivalent) armies. Anything wearing less than heavy armour doesn't exist to them these days - but when Epic Space Marine was a thing, the official lore emphasised how useless armour is in the 41st Millennium due to the destructive weapons.
As a wretched DG I've won my first 9th edition game by summoning a poxbringer in the middle of the board and doing a "psychic ritual" turn 1 them summom plague bearers screen turn 2.
I was interested in making a daemon army but I'll guess I'll just make a choas space marine one instead, talk about being completely nerfed to the ground. Hopefully they'll get some new rules to buff them up soon as they've been hit in every way possible
We played a 9th edition games because we have the rules early and books and tzeentch daemons is what I used and they were fun and weren’t as bad as what people are being scared of.
I've a question, at min 23:27 you mention that you can re-roll the morale check to get 4 dice instead of 2, and so more odds to get a 1 and respawn models; but the COMAND RE-ROLL STRATAGEM can't be used on the morale check. There's another way to re roll those dices? Thanks!
@GerManticore Fair, and the points changes were more intended (God I hope so) for homogenization than actual balance. I hardly ever saw elites, fast attack, or heavy support and those got hit the worst :/
Burning Chariots still have the -1 for moving and shooting Heavy. Big guns never tire is VEHICLE and MONSTER only, and CHARIOT is a different keyword. Unless I'm missing something? Also, the banners from raise the banners high don't go away just because your opponent moved a model onto the objective; it's only if they control it that your banner is destroyed. You can't put the banner up if anyone is in range, however.
Good video, it sounds like their is alot of flexibility in demons. I don't want to give up on a possible nurgle army. This seems like a real playable army TBH. Brian we all know you want the unkillable zeetch demon haha you get so pumped for lop sided models haha
I've been contemplating getting into WH40K, I just gotta decide on when I want to dedicate the time and finances. Out of all the armies, the Khorne army interests me the most just due to them being daemons that will slaughter you but do it honestly and honorably. I am also looking into Imperial Knights just cause I'm all for an army of giant mechs but I've heard it's a very specific play style you have to know what your doing, so I'm think Khorne first, IK second and eventually Harlequin if I get good a the game and painting.
How does summoning work in 9th edition? Because I can't find the rules for paying command points, points, or power level points anywhere in the 9th edition book.
Is the Chaos Space Marine how to play incoming? My boys in black are having a churning feeling that the defiler was the only real win in the army in the new edition.
Need to see how prevalent blast will be in 9th. 2 Kos, Shalaxi, 90 daemonnettes in battalion. Spearhead is undivided Syll'esske, 3 skullcannons, 2 beasts of nurgle. First list I want to try.
Hey, video helped alot thanks, I'm new to Warhammer and yet to by my first models (waiting for Christmas) I wanted to build a korne daemons mixed with chaos space marines army (1000) points. I'm thinking of getting the start collecting boxes for both with arch lord discordant, a Daemon prince and a few extra bloodletters, branching into a few more smaller and more importantly cheaper (with real money) units from both like cultist's, havoks and bloodhounds, any advice on playing and strategy? Or other models to purchase?
I think for the Daemons the core rules simply lack the "add-on" flavor that Space Marines have gotten. Like, the abilities of Chaos Daemons should be as follows: If your army is Battle-forged, you gain Locus of Ruination, Daemonic Constitution and Tithe of the Warp abilities. Locus of Ruination = *Objective Secure* for Troops battlefield role units. Daemonic Constitution = Grants Daemon units 5+ Invulnerable save. In addition, whenever you roll a 1 for a Moral test, you restore D6 slain models to the unit that were destroyed earlier in the game. Tithe of the Warp = Whenever a friendly Chaos Daemon model is slain (excluding from Moral or failed Attrition test), roll a D6. On a 5+ you may add a Blood Tithe counter (if the slain model has the Khorne keyword), a Conjuration Tithe counter (if the slain model has the Tzeentch keyword), a Pestilance Tithe counter (if the slain model has the Nurgle keyword) or Allure Tithe counter (if the slain model has the Slaanesh keyword). To a maximum of 3. Whenever a Chaos Daemon Character attempts a Daemonic Ritual (see below), you may add the number of counters to the score of the Daemonic Ritual attempt for that summoning. Then you have: If your army is entirely Battle-forged using Chaos Daemons with either Khorne, Tzeentch, Nurgle or Slaanesh keywords, you gain Daemonic Loci and Daemonic Ritual abilities. Daemonic Loci are seperated between the four Chaos Gods. And are as follows: Khorne = *Unstoppable Ferocity* If this unit makes a charge move, is charged, or performs a Heroic Intervention, then until the end of the turn add 1 to the Attacks characteristic of all its models and add 1 to the Strength characteristic of all the melee weapons the unit is armed with. In addition, whenever a Khorne Daemon unit is within engagement range of one or more enemy units, they automatically pass Attrition tests. Tzeentch = *Ephemeral Form* Add 1 to any invulnerable saving throws made for this unit. In addition, whenever you roll one or more 1's for a Attrition test, roll a D6. On the roll of a unmodified 6, you may inflict a mortal wound to an enemy unit within 6" of the slain model (to a maximum of 3 mortal wounds per Battle Round). Nurgle = *Disgustingly Resilient* Each time a model with this ability loses a wound, roll a dice; on a 5+, the model does not lose that wound. In addition, whenever a model is removed from play during the moral phase, roll a D6 for that model. On the roll of a unmodified 6, another Infantry Nurgle Daemon unit within 7" may restore a slain model to that unit (to a maximum of 7 models per Battle Round). Slaanesh = *Quicksilver Swiftness* This unit always fight first in the Fight phase, even if it didn’t charge. If the enemy has units that have charged, or that have a similar ability, then alternate choosing units to fight with, starting with the player whose turn is taking place. In addition, if one or more Slaanesh are removed from play due to a failed Attrition test, that unit may add D3 to its next Advance, Charge and/or Fall Back move until the end of the next friendly player turn. Daemonic Ritual = Basically applied as in 8th Edition, but with these new add-ons. 1) You get to boost the summoning attempt with the Tithe of the Warp ability (see above). 2) In Matched Play, a single Character may only ever attempt a single Daemonic Summoning per game. 3) In Matched Play, only a sum total of three Daemonic Summoning attempts may be made across an entire game. 4) Units that are successfully summoned (see 8th Edition rules for "How that functions"), does NOT cost any reinforcement points or Command Points when placed on the battlefield. 5) All summoned units have a buff and a nerf rule that is tied to the Character that summoned it. These are: A) The summoned unit has the Locus of Ruination ability (your Objective Secure rule) as long as the character that summoned the unit is alive and on the battlefield. B) The summoned unit MUST take an Attrition test during each subsequent Moral Phase after the character that summoned the unit is removed from the battlefield or is slain. In addition, if there are no friendly Chaos Daemon character(s) left on the battlefield when this is resolved, you must also add 1 to the Attrition test (E.I. you fail on 1's and 2's. And when you are at less then half unit size you fail on 1's, 2's and 3's). Note that this will only apply to summoned units, not the Chaos Daemon units that are apart of your normal detachment(s). Designer's Note: Yes, you do have to take an Attrition test even if you suffer zero casualties during that player's turn. And yes, if you also fail a Moral test in the very same turn this is resolved, you will be required to make a second Attrition tests in that very same Moral Phase (one does not exclude the other). Sorry for the long text, but that's my take on the Chaos Daemons :)
Also, the 8th Edition version of Locus of Rage, Locus of Virulence, Locus of Swiftness, Locus of Trickery are renamed Herald of Rage, Herald of Virulence, Herald of Grace and Herald of Illusion respectively.
Well the contorted epitome and fiends are gonna be much better now that desperate breakout is a thing, daemonettes at 7 ppm and the changes to detachment rules helps with CP. They're super fast so they have particularly good board control, and their psychic discipline becomes somewhat more potent. Triple keeper of secrets is also still viable with just a single battalion and fight first is slightly better with the changes to the core rules and how close combat works. I think slaanesh are a bit better overall in 9th as a whole, but we won't know until everything starts seeing play.
Im really interested in slaanesh daemons too. Im ok with MSU style if modifier cap is sticked to +1/-1 & overwatch is not common feature. If advance&charge slaanesh rule is still available, i dont mind having pink horrors msu/tzeentch prince/changecaster + unique cqc slaanesh characters. I was always in ire to survive any overwatch. I just cant survive on turn3 in 8ed.
Do not forget, when choosing the Exalted trait for your Keepers, remember, against heavy shooting lists (that don't have S3) the -1 to Wound Rolls will always be better than the 4++, it cuts the average income damage by half (S4 to S6). S7 is still a better choice than 4++. Only against S8 you need to consider, but usually those are very limited so don't brother choosing the 4++. Only against melee heavy lists you should get the 4++. Remember T'au? With -1 to wound rolls, the large majority of their attacks will only wound Keepers on 6+.
"Oh, you like Khorne? We don't do that here." Meanwhile AoS out there with beautiful minis and no worry about ranged "BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD, SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE!"
@@gudboah4688 most of them. Khorne is still the weakest, which is a bummer, especially if you're bringing any daemon unit besides thirsters or letters.
Flesh hounds are pretty good and the heroes aren’t too bad. Khorne may be the “weakest” of the god aligned factions but that’s only when you compare him to OP factions like tzeentch.
KLEENEX TAKEN OUT, IM READY! Ive been waiting for this so hard. I LOVE THESE VIDEOS SO FUCKING much guys! Thank you! This makes my warhammers rattle my entire office in excitement over beating the shite out of each other in 9th! HYPE IS REAL BITCHES. I love how you know all the factions, it just makes it so accessible to new players and advanced players alike. Games workshop should sponsor you. (Brian thinking: they already do..;)
Thanks for the video and a great insight. Was wondering what you think of soul ginders. As we have a massive slanaash army currently being painted up. Christopher DBG
Daemons definitely lack more armywide rules and bonuses, especially for mono-god choices. Not only their codex is smaller than the other races equivalent, but you also use about 30% of it if you're going Khorne-only, for example.
What are the rules for horrors? For a unit of 10 pink horrors do you need to pay the points for blue and brimstone horrors and add those points to the horror unit as a whole or can you just pay for the pink horrors?
Hello I am new and have a question if anybody could answer. I want to build a daemon army, I have purchased some models but upon arrival and inspection I realised that they may not work together. I have brought 1x great unclean one 1x daemon prince 1x pox bringer 1x infernal enrapturess 1x blood master 1x bloodletter unit And the bit that throws me off I was gifted a death guard combat patrol, can I use this in the same list? If so, what disadvantages or advantages does it pose for me. Thanks
GW are biased against the antagonists - Chaos Marines & Daemons, Tyranids, GSC, Drukhari, Necrons... & biased towards the protagonists - Space Marines, Grey Knights, A.Mechanicus, Custodes, Craftworld Aeldari, Tau, Inquisition, Guard (Orks & Harlequins seem neutral)... They openly stated they were trying to make SM the ultimate armies in the game, ignoring all play testing advice & upsetting the ENTIRE community and meta. The army wide buffs & stratagems that Imperium get vs. Chaos through G'Knights & Guard are dumb.
@@ankharimcv9104 wait, can I get a source on GW openly stating that they want marines to be the ultimate armies in the game? I wouldn't be surprised, but that's a BIG claim to make
@@Howardax I wish I could provide that & yes, you are correct to question it ;) I'm pretty sure it was from a podcast talking about the conversations they had with play testers... (I don't want to guess & I'm not reviewing 20+ hours of podcasts :) ) Tbh dude, Frontline have been vocal about the feedback they gave on I'Hands and Fists being far too strong and GW ignoring their feedback & this perspective was 'apparently' prevalent within the play testing community (at the time, Frontline was my only known & outspoken play test source). I thinks this speaks towards backing up what I said; but I may have embellished a bit, so it's fair to call me on it ;) Btw, I'm also feeling the bias is dropping, since D'Guard are epic, T'sons are OK & CSMarines are not half bad... :D (I totally appreciate that I am also biased btw ;) )
I think they need to make blood letters higher point cost and do more damage and be a bit tougher. They are friggen bad ass demons wielding great swords.
As a Thousand Sons player I would love to see a rework of some of their daemon units. Particularly Horrors. I love the mechanics of them but paying the points for all those models that you might not even use just seems ridiculous.
I would be careful with that, Age of Sigmar is suffering greatly from a MSU pink horror unit effectively being 50 models you have to tear through. They're almost impossible to get off of objectives in that game and it doesn't even have rules like Objective Secured. Imagine if an obsec unit of 10 Pinks could churn out 20 blues and then 20 brims without paying for it. Its a ludicrous force multiplier for objective based games.
I really think that Horror splitting should be points free (like take the points into accound in the base horror cost if you want it to cost something) I play against a Daemons player fairly often so I just let him split his horrors all that he wants
@@sauceman3462 Orks have deff dreds, mech guns, killa kanz, Gork/Morkanauts, Lootaz, bikes, Meganobz, not to mention Deathskullz, Freebootas & Evil Sunz. Their codex is deep enough to adjust to the meta ;)
I just recently was talking to a friend of mine that wants to get into Warhammer 40K, and told him I have a Khorne Choas Deamon army, but after reading the new rules..... Completely unplayable now. Like, why would you take away the one thing that made them halfway playable to being like, eh, just deal with it?
Hi. I love your vids. Btw. BUT you Saying that obscuring conseal oure BT as long as it is lower than 18w ?? But as i have read it it states that only Infantry, beasts and swarms can be concealed. Rest you can shoot as normal ??? Can you post other rule that protect oure BT ?
Definitely. They are not survivable, and if you deepstrike them in, expect to pay 3-4cp to use the brass stampede stratagem. (Icon, Denizens, Stampede)
@@VorpalDerringer I think trading a 150pt unit and 2-3cp for a 5 man unit or even a 10-man unit with 5-10 wounds is not a good trade. On average, against MEQ, you're dealing 6-7 wounds on the charge with a 3-squad of crushers. It's just not enough return on investment.
Not a single thing about Khorn?.. my SO won't be happy about that ...Guys, you could at least have done a spotlight in each god =( I love your work normally but this made me a little disappointed.
A sample size of 1. But I played a 1750 Pure nugle list against Tau this weekend. I killed a total of 4 models and won the game. He couldn't kill 90 plaguebearers to remove me from objectives and i just sat there and out scored him. It wasn't a very exciting game, I think he was trying to table me. He had no blast weapons though...another shooty army with those could have been rough
Yup... you got me... cannot think of a worse army (GSC maybe, until players re-think their builds...) Try a patrol with 2x Skull Cannons, 30 Bloodletters (D'strike & Banner), Karanak & 1 Daemon Prince; then double summon for 2 more Skull Cannons on T1 ;) Skull Cannons are nasty mate, 80pts for D6 Battlecannon shots @ 3+BS, re-roll 1's, ignoring cover & they're not too shabby in combat when backed up with the DP ;) Have another look at your codex sir. You might want to build in some W'Eaters.... KILL, MAIM, BURN, MOFO!!! KHAAAAARNE!!! :D
@@ankharimcv9104 i would love to play a mono daemon of khorne list but you sacrifice psychic, shooting, lack resilience and due ti ne nerf of charges, tagging vehicle and introduction of blast weapons you are... Just fucked.
"We are just falling in love with the Keeper of Secrets"..... ehm that might not be a great idea, but I understand you!
I foresee disgusting, adoration leading to bloodshed :D
Me, a Daemon player, watching the new rules releases: "Ooooooooohhhhh...... Oh nooooooooo......"
I lol'd at GW's official how to play Daemons article. "Hey guys uhhh, just like try to win. Basically everything is worse for you though."
and they were like "hey, beasts and monsters get cover saves now in ruins" when 90% of daemons are 6+ with 5++
There is one and only one way to integrate them again into 40k: make them csm troop choices again. Let them be part of their codex again.
23:59 WHAT IS THAT MODEL BEHIND SLOPPITY BILEPIPER?!? I WOULD KILL FOR IT
@@randomuser238 the big tree man?
@@ieat10kittens94 yes
The Daemons really need to be able to pair up for free with the CSM or Thousand Sons, etc. Gotta be some good way to balance it. It's fluffy and crunchy. When I first got into 40k with 8th ed. I couldn't understand why I couldn't take the daemons that were in my book without having to build another detachment for daemons and get that book, etc. too
best workaround I can think of is the summoning rules. set aside a few points, and you can summon in whatever you need.
Comeptitive power gamers would ruin it for everyone within days. That's why you get so heavily penalised for soup lists now. Why would GW put more thought into their rules to prevent abuse, when they can simply spoil it for people who play for fun?
You guys aren’t instilling me with the upmost confidence in my Tzeentch Daemons.
I have 700€ of Tzeentch boxes still in shipping from a single order in May, and it's too late to cancel the order. Now I'm thinking wow sure hope that's not been a waste :O
Try them in AoS. If they don´t get murderd in the next Pointsupdate in the next 2 weeks they are a top tier army with cool and realy strong mechanics.
Thats the nice thing about Daeoms, you can just play them in the other System if they have a rough time in your mainsystem for a few months.
@@silent8366 Haven't tried AoS at all so far, I am only playing 40k for about a year and a half, and I think I'd like to "master" (or just get better) 40k before starting a new system.. Thanks for the tip anyway!
It hurts that GW stopped soup, Chaos souping was a given and worked really well. Now you can play CSM and summon demons. I also am sitting on a bunch of demon units.
it's fine, they'll suck in 40k, they still kick ass in AoS, fair exchange.
The problem with greater deamons is that they deal a LOT of mortal wounds to your wallet and getting six is quite a lot XD
...I have 10. 😔
I played 3 test games with 9th edition rules, at 1700 pts (pre-leak). I won every single one.
Here's the list
LoC: warlord(-1dmg), robe, exalted (random). Gaze of Fate, Infernal Gate
WoK Bloodthirster: Grmakht, Exalted (Random)
Bloodthirster oIR: Armor of Scorn, Exalted (Random)
2x 5 Nurglings
1x 20 Bloodletters with icon and instrument. banner of blood. Denizens
2x 5 Flamers
1x 5 Screamers
1x Soul Grinder of Tzeentch.
(Points for summoning DP of Tzeentch)
Start with 4CP
Use strats to interrupt combat, MW from flamers, Screamer Strat, and nurgling strat.
Strategy: nurglings hold your backfield and scout deploy to hold another outer objective. LoC parks on an objective and summons tzeentch prince. Charge Bloodthirsters/Soul Grinder up with flamers for screens/screenclearing. Use screamers to tag/kill artillery.
Took engage on all fronts and thin their ranks. Left the 3rd secondary open depending on opponent's list.
I played against mech marines twice (different players) and Kronos/kraken tyranids once.
Worked for me, might work for you. You could replace the bloodthirsters with KoS.
I like the detailed strategy. thanks!
First turn of shooting of Imperial Guard - poooof. Good strategy, but all of this can be easily countered.
I like the list, however those bloodthirsters are a points liability. They can hit like trucks, but they go down with a pittance of shooting.
The list will really struggle against any army that can muster the shots to put down both infantry and the monsters. Against knights this list will struggle to kill them when your big monsters die turn one, and against an army like guard it’s just gonna get shredded.
There’s a lot of good ideas, but right now in a competitive sense I don’t think mono daemons are gonna see the top tables anytime soon.
@@gfdgfd2864 Shooting at what, with their 4+BS (3+TC) at models that possibly can't be targetted behind Obscuring terrain? It's not planet bowling ball sir... You're looking at a T7 16W 3++ Invul 6+FNP LoChange, 2x T7 16W 2+Sv/4++Invul BThirsters, a T7 14W 4++ Invul S'Grinder, hidden Nurglings/Screamers/Flamers, d'strike Flamers/Bloodletters? Dude, it's genuinely an awesome strategy... God help you if you meet this army with that attitude. The Emperor only protects winners :D
@@nathanieleck1023 I agree on the B'thisters... 2x KoS & 10 Daemonettes would my choice. Do not agree on getting shot off the table (reply below)
Chaos guy at local game store "want to play with 8th edition rules?"
HAHA! Pre the 8th Space Marine & Grey Knight codexes... :? :/ :D
I'll take 9th with obscure vs end of 8th
Legend says grandmaster Brian is still pondering how to play CSM in ninth
I really NEED you guys to do an army showcase video on these guys - some incredible diversity in model ranges AND paint schemes in here - exactly what chaos daemons should be. It needs to be long and spend time on each and every unit in here - I love the look of this force!
I think Khorne Daemons could be interesting in 9th and seem like the biggest winners overall, the board is smaller, skull canons and soul crushers love the heavy change rules and seem points efficient.... The points for Khorne were hardly touched and the bloodletters are probably the troop least effected by running them in smaller units, in that they only get +1 to hit for units of 20 and if you really want that back you can take a skull master for the locus of decapitation. On top of that the Bloodthirsters or Skarbrand give you an excellent answer to morale and are arguably the best exalted daemon upgrades too. The khorne daemons also got some of the best stratagems for keeping chariots alive, All the while the 5 turn limit removes a lot of the fragility of army as a whole. I definitely don't think they are the strongest daemon faction but I think with the rules changes and current points they are the daemon faction which pulled out the best for it.
On top of abhor the witch being a dream scenario LOL
OMG, I love your optimism sir! I too love Skull Cannons! Take 3 & Double Summon with a DP on T1 to get 5! T2 for 7 FTW! Woop :D (Soul Grinders I think? Will have to look into them again... 180pts was a bit pricey, but awesome if they're untouched) 30 Bloodletters with the Banner are super scary for any opponent. They don't care about Blast from D'strike & the new overwatch & morale actually helps them. Karanak is always fun & the Bloodcrushers could be interesting with PAwake...? Love the comment :)
Yeah but saying a Daemon faction got stronger would be like rolling a paralyzed boxer into the ring and claiming he lasted a couple secconds longer this time😂
Just to ask, specially regarding Slaanesh Daemons. The 2 CP to disengage strat (Desperate Breakout) is strong against the daemons, but wouldn't the Contorted Epitome be amazing in those situations? The Strat is used on a unit that didn't move and is engaged. It rolls the D6s and for every 1 kills a model. If the unit survived those D6s, then it can Fallback. When falling-back the Contorted Epitome's ability is activated, rolling the 3D6 and comparing the sum with that unit's Ld, in which the roll is equal or bigger, the unit fails to fall-back. Doesn't this mean that you can force your opponent to pay 2 CP, risk losing models and still do absolutely nothing?
Afik if a unit fails to fall back after using DB, it would be destroyed if its affected by the CE's (or similar) abilities.
Don’t forget about tanglefoot grenade
What about fiends of Slaanesh? :o
Slaanesh laughs at these 9th edition rules changes. They treat combat almost exactly the same as 8th, while gaining the most from the reduced overwatch
But will daemonettes see the light of day s3t35++
I just looked at "Command Re-Roll" and the list is "hit roll, wound roll, damage roll, saving through, advance, charge, psychic test, deny the witch test or the number of attacks"
It doesn't look like you can use "Command Re-Roll" to reroll Moral, let alone cheese Sloppity Bilepiper's extra dice to phish for more 1s =(
Oooooh, well spotted sir *claps* N1! ;) I totally bought into that without even considering the new limitations... #8thLag ...You could you use a 'Gaze of Fates' re-roll in your own Morale phase, but you will probably need it in your opponents Morale phase tbh =/ Still, a 33.3% chance of a 1 on 2D6 is much more viable with the new Morale rules. Previously your opponent would/could force you into 2CP or risk losing the entire unit =)
@@ankharimcv9104 Yeah, I would still run a Bilepiper, especially since you can only auto-pass moral once during the entire battle. For 65 points in the new edition I think its a no-brainier. Only thing hard about my mono-nurgle list is trying to run all the HQs I used to. I either lose 2CP to bring some Daemon Princes in a patrol or just run the 3 heralds in a battalion and dont bother with the princes now they're 30points more expensive than they used to be.
@@18120polls Have you considered Summoning in more Characters rather than using another Detachment? There's a 1CP Strat to double summon... ;) You don't get the Locus tho... =( The Fec Maw has Summoning buffs (it doesn't cost any CP, since the 1CP gets refunded if your W'lord detach is Nurgle) & I'm sure there's another Strat for Summoning on 3D6 and ignoring penalties... ;)
Almost every source that talks about Raise the banners high saying essentialy what is mentioned in this video
"the enemy can remove a banner by moving a single model within 3" of the objective"
Unless im missing some rule somewhere that states otherwise, If your unit that raised the banner is still on that objective then a single enemy model will not bring the banner down unless you move away from the objective unless they are objective secured and you are not.
If your unit that raised the banner is ObSec then its incredibly difficult for the enemy to remove the banner as they would need to have more obsec models in range of the banner to take it down becuase the enemy needs to "control" the objective to be able to take down the banner.
The exact wording without dictating the whole secondary rule says "... (the banner is "removed" if your opponent controls the objective marker at the start of any phase)..."
This seems completely opposite to what is stated in the video at 17:51
If i am wrong i would love someone to point me to a rule im forgetting or misreading.
What I find interesting is that with the screening plague drones I have the similar idea with seeker chariots, hellflayers, seekers, and fiends and I am building an army around the chariots running up the board getting that board control, and then blobs of 20-30 deamonettes following up behind. Hopefully the blobs will be targeted by the heavy blast weapons as a distraction carnifex.
So the 2000 point list of mono slaanesh is 3 patrol detachments,
1x foot herald
2x infernal enrapturesses
2x hellflayer Heralds
1x Deamon prince, wings, axe
2 x 30 deamonettes
1x 20 deamonettes
6x fiends
20x seekers
2x seeker chariots
so all the fast moving chariots are running up screening, and charging as much as possible just trying to cause as much havoc as possible and really trying to take advantage of the smaller table size with the fiends maybe split into smaller groups making falling back impossible for anything because of their no fall back rule. then the deamonettes can pretty much walk around taking objectives and eventually joining the frey if they can.
As a side note, first video I have seen of this channel and I am excited to see more specifically with deamons.
As someone who is completely new to 40K, this is the army that I want to play! A lot of people told me that it was going to get worse, but I just love the idea of them and will tough it out! My FLGS is having an escalation league for 40K and for AoS, and I want to go with chaos daemons. Does anyone have any ideas on how to get started with them at 500 points?
Bro same, i hear so much shit for rubric marines but i dont see a tzeench/thousand sons army without them.
I say your best bet is to get one of the start collecting boxes for one of the chaos gods that you like the most. If you don't have a specific one just yet you could just go get the ...i think its called wrath of rapture box. That has quite a few models which features the demons from Khorne and slaanesh.
Keeper of secrets and demonets are the way to go for Sigmar
I would recommend picking a Daemon faction (Khorne, Slannesh, Nurgle or Tzeentch) and buying the Start Collecting box twice, then rounding it out with one additional purchase (either a Herald, or an additional box of troops).
This page does good reviews of the starter boxed contents and what they have in them , how many points they are, and if theyre good or crap.
ageofminiatures.com/start-collecting-daemons-of-tzeentch/
:) theres the Tzeentch one (as i think its the best value). Hope this helps!
As someone who started Daemons in 40k and used them as an entrypoint for AoS I can only advice you to do it the outher way around. Even though I personaly like their rules in AoS much more the main reason for prefering AoS over 40k is the fakt that you´ll need less models to get started. The difference is around 33% in points. The disadvantage you´ll have is that in AoS the armys are primarely monofaction and you may need some AoS exclusiv stuff like a terrainpice, a few Mortal Characters or Endless Spells depending on your list and chosen faction. In my opinion thats not realy that big of a deal and still better then starting off with way a bigger army.
As for Startingpoints:
Nurgle Start Collecting is great. You may not use the Nurglings much in Aos but they still have their uses and the rest of the units are core of the army in both systems.
Also the Drones are super scary in AoS if buffed up properly.
Tzeentch Start Collecting is also good. Just all the core units but for AoS you´ll need 2 Boxes ofBlue/Brimstones Horros aswell, since Horrors have the Splitrule integrated in their Points and you´d be ad a huge disadvantage if you don´t use them. Also caution since they get a Pointsupdate in the next 2 weeks. Since their new Battletome ( AoS Kodex) they are absurdly strong and surely get a nerf in Points. If not nerft into oblivion pick up a Lord of Change in addition and you´ll have the base of a top tier army.
For Khorn and Slaanesh: I don´t play them in Aos and in 40k they are only small Allies so take this one with a grain of salt. I think the "Wrath and Rupture" Box may be a bit better to start your Army with then the Start Collecting Boxes but its so close that i´d stay with the Start Collecting if you have noone to Split it with or realy want the modells from both sides.
Hope I was of some help and maby enlighten me on Khorn and Slaanesh if someone has more experience with them.
Brimstones are 5 points per model and Blues 7. Demons are SUPER dead haha.
Also: 9 Point Plaguebearer are laughably bad without -2 to hit.
Plague bearers are still 8
Daemonettes are the same
Bloodletters god +1 point
@GerManticore at least Dark Eldar have lots of things besides wracks. With 4++ invulnarable by the way
gfd gfd, no, we don’t, all of our good units just got absolutely slammed by the points.
All our troops went up a stupid amount of points. All of our transports, which are a core of every list, went up more than 25 points. Our primary anti tank weapon, the dissentigrator cannon, went up 10 points. Our vehicles went up. Our Talos’ and grotesques went up. All of our wargear such as venom blades and archite glaives went up a stupid number of points, making our characters skyrocket.
Not to mention they nerfed fly, which all our vehicles have, nerfed multiple detachments, capped modifiers, and loads of other things that just... absolutely destroyed the dark eldar. We’re in this shit together.
Augh, you're doing Chaos Space Marines last, aren't you? Great videos, and very interesting even if we haven't made it to my faction yet, haha!
Unfortunately, yes. Their last faction focus will be CSM in the 22nd.
I think they aren’t even doing my army, Adeptus Sororitas :(
Not getting a TS list either. They seem to have been semi-butchered by 9th rule changes but it's like it's being brushed under the carpet.
@@McWerp Yeah, I think they said they wouldn't because they don't play or own them; which I genuinely appreciate... They're must be loads of other stuff out there on sisters? Tbh T3 3+Sv ignoring AP-2, Organ Missle Launchers, Penitent Engines etc... what else do you need dude? :D
@@NatTheWise Ahriman, a DP, 2x5 Rubrics, 30 Tzaangors, 3x10 Scarab Occults... play around with unit sizes, a Shaman, Rhinos & sorcerers ;) More fun & interesting if you take onboard their ideas for LoChange, Flamers & Sreamers in a patrol =)
That collection looks amazing! Been unsure what faction to go for for my 4th army, think this decides it. Anywhere I can see some pictures of them?
You cannot use the command point reroll to reroll morale with sloppety bilepiper since its not a hit, wound, damage, saving throw, advance, charge, psytest, deny the witch or number of attacks with a weapon.
I'd really *really* love to see you guys do a battle report with one side using the 6 exalted greater daemons!!
Is it possible to exalt multiple daemons? I thought this was a stratagem and thus one use only per phase? Or doesn't that count for pre-battle stratagems?
@@OllyWood688 Pre-battle stratagems are not used in any phase so yes they can be used multiple times (unless specified otherwise by the stratagem wording itself).
Let’s face it. All the cute tricks you can do, is countered heavy with guns. Just Exalt your KoS and hope your opponent focuses on them all game so you can Raise Banners.
The Kos & LoC both wreck face & are disgustingly resilient with the Wistealer Relic & Sinistrous Hand then the Impossible Robe & 6+FNP regen =D 500pts (8th) of distraction carnifex :)
Wy not soup
I wonder if we're gonna get a khorne daemonkin/hedonites of Slaanesh type codexes like in 7th edition/age of Sigmar that lets you play daemons and csm together, and create alternate conditions for summoning. (Blood points/depravity)
I can only hope
Rad vid guys!! Shocked you guys didn't touch on the Bloodthirster's new engine war goodies haha
17:10 I see Tzeentch is hard at work distorting reality....
My mono nurgle army already has all the models you suggested in your list 👌🏻
I don't think I'll ever be interested in playing Daemons, but man they look good and really sharp on a board. Shame it's not more popular a faction.
GW is becoming increasingly reliant on power armour (or power armour equivalent) armies. Anything wearing less than heavy armour doesn't exist to them these days - but when Epic Space Marine was a thing, the official lore emphasised how useless armour is in the 41st Millennium due to the destructive weapons.
As a wretched DG I've won my first 9th edition game by summoning a poxbringer in the middle of the board and doing a "psychic ritual" turn 1 them summom plague bearers screen turn 2.
I am bringing a mono Slaanesh army to a 2000p 9th edition tournament this August! I will tell you how it went! :)
And I was bringing furies BEFORE XD
So, how did it go?
Ye
Looking a little grim for my Tzeentch Daemons but Im still looking forward to playing!
I was interested in making a daemon army but I'll guess I'll just make a choas space marine one instead, talk about being completely nerfed to the ground. Hopefully they'll get some new rules to buff them up soon as they've been hit in every way possible
Khorne never gets to play with the others lol but I guess thats why we have detachments. LETS STAY STRONG DEMON BRETHREN
We played a 9th edition games because we have the rules early and books and tzeentch daemons is what I used and they were fun and weren’t as bad as what people are being scared of.
I've a question, at min 23:27 you mention that you can re-roll the morale check to get 4 dice instead of 2, and so more odds to get a 1 and respawn models; but the COMAND RE-ROLL STRATAGEM can't be used on the morale check. There's another way to re roll those dices? Thanks!
Daemons are paying for the sins of the WHFB 7th(maybe 6th?) edition codex. Change my mind.
I still that codex killed WHFB. The game never recovered.
I think it is more the good to great in aos....
Trash in 40k...
@GerManticore Fair, and the points changes were more intended (God I hope so) for homogenization than actual balance. I hardly ever saw elites, fast attack, or heavy support and those got hit the worst :/
@@McWerp 6th ed skaven vs daemons is completely balanced ;)
I honestly think the 6 exalted demon list isnt bad for 90% of comers. I'd expect it to dominate most LGS, and it's super stylish
Burning Chariots still have the -1 for moving and shooting Heavy. Big guns never tire is VEHICLE and MONSTER only, and CHARIOT is a different keyword. Unless I'm missing something?
Also, the banners from raise the banners high don't go away just because your opponent moved a model onto the objective; it's only if they control it that your banner is destroyed. You can't put the banner up if anyone is in range, however.
Only INFANTRY have the penalty to move and shoot Heavy weapons. Big Guns Never Tire allows you to shoot in combat.
Big guns never tire lets you shoot weapons into melee. The -1 to hit comes from the Heavy weapon rule and only applies to infantry.
Good video, it sounds like their is alot of flexibility in demons. I don't want to give up on a possible nurgle army. This seems like a real playable army TBH.
Brian we all know you want the unkillable zeetch demon haha you get so pumped for lop sided models haha
"This seems like a real playable army" were you watching the same video as I did?
Hey at 0:40 where did you find such a head sculpt for your Daemon Prince of Khorne? As that looks AWESOME.
I've been contemplating getting into WH40K, I just gotta decide on when I want to dedicate the time and finances. Out of all the armies, the Khorne army interests me the most just due to them being daemons that will slaughter you but do it honestly and honorably. I am also looking into Imperial Knights just cause I'm all for an army of giant mechs but I've heard it's a very specific play style you have to know what your doing, so I'm think Khorne first, IK second and eventually Harlequin if I get good a the game and painting.
Go for khorne daemons and /or chaos knights? You could ally them together to balance each other’s weaknesses?
How does summoning work in 9th edition? Because I can't find the rules for paying command points, points, or power level points anywhere in the 9th edition book.
This channel is great!
Is the Chaos Space Marine how to play incoming? My boys in black are having a churning feeling that the defiler was the only real win in the army in the new edition.
Need to see how prevalent blast will be in 9th. 2 Kos, Shalaxi, 90 daemonnettes in battalion. Spearhead is undivided Syll'esske, 3 skullcannons, 2 beasts of nurgle. First list I want to try.
loving all the content guys! keen to see your vid on GSC and how they'll be the worst faction now :(
Hey, video helped alot thanks, I'm new to Warhammer and yet to by my first models (waiting for Christmas) I wanted to build a korne daemons mixed with chaos space marines army (1000) points. I'm thinking of getting the start collecting boxes for both with arch lord discordant, a Daemon prince and a few extra bloodletters, branching into a few more smaller and more importantly cheaper (with real money) units from both like cultist's, havoks and bloodhounds, any advice on playing and strategy? Or other models to purchase?
Can we get some Khorne love? My boy needs skulls.
Can you summon an exalted greater daemon? Love all the insights! Hopefully as 9th progresses GW will be kind to us.
nope
@@RVD1OFAKIND is that because you have to use the stratagem at the beginning of the game? Thank you for your reply.
"SLANEESH PATROL!"
I think for the Daemons the core rules simply lack the "add-on" flavor that Space Marines have gotten. Like, the abilities of Chaos Daemons should be as follows:
If your army is Battle-forged, you gain Locus of Ruination, Daemonic Constitution and Tithe of the Warp abilities.
Locus of Ruination = *Objective Secure* for Troops battlefield role units.
Daemonic Constitution = Grants Daemon units 5+ Invulnerable save. In addition, whenever you roll a 1 for a Moral test, you restore D6 slain models to the unit that were destroyed earlier in the game.
Tithe of the Warp = Whenever a friendly Chaos Daemon model is slain (excluding from Moral or failed Attrition test), roll a D6. On a 5+ you may add a Blood Tithe counter (if the slain model has the Khorne keyword), a Conjuration Tithe counter (if the slain model has the Tzeentch keyword), a Pestilance Tithe counter (if the slain model has the Nurgle keyword) or Allure Tithe counter (if the slain model has the Slaanesh keyword). To a maximum of 3. Whenever a Chaos Daemon Character attempts a Daemonic Ritual (see below), you may add the number of counters to the score of the Daemonic Ritual attempt for that summoning.
Then you have:
If your army is entirely Battle-forged using Chaos Daemons with either Khorne, Tzeentch, Nurgle or Slaanesh keywords, you gain Daemonic Loci and Daemonic Ritual abilities.
Daemonic Loci are seperated between the four Chaos Gods. And are as follows:
Khorne = *Unstoppable Ferocity* If this unit makes a charge move, is charged, or performs a Heroic Intervention, then until the end of the turn add 1 to the Attacks characteristic of all its models and add 1 to the Strength characteristic of all the melee weapons the unit is armed with. In addition, whenever a Khorne Daemon unit is within engagement range of one or more enemy units, they automatically pass Attrition tests.
Tzeentch = *Ephemeral Form* Add 1 to any invulnerable saving throws made for this unit. In addition, whenever you roll one or more 1's for a Attrition test, roll a D6. On the roll of a unmodified 6, you may inflict a mortal wound to an enemy unit within 6" of the slain model (to a maximum of 3 mortal wounds per Battle Round).
Nurgle = *Disgustingly Resilient* Each time a model with this ability loses a wound, roll a dice; on a 5+, the model does not lose that wound. In addition, whenever a model is removed from play during the moral phase, roll a D6 for that model. On the roll of a unmodified 6, another Infantry Nurgle Daemon unit within 7" may restore a slain model to that unit (to a maximum of 7 models per Battle Round).
Slaanesh = *Quicksilver Swiftness* This unit always fight first in the Fight phase, even if it didn’t charge. If the enemy has units that have charged, or that have a similar ability, then alternate choosing units to fight with, starting with the player whose turn is taking place. In addition, if one or more Slaanesh are removed from play due to a failed Attrition test, that unit may add D3 to its next Advance, Charge and/or Fall Back move until the end of the next friendly player turn.
Daemonic Ritual = Basically applied as in 8th Edition, but with these new add-ons.
1) You get to boost the summoning attempt with the Tithe of the Warp ability (see above).
2) In Matched Play, a single Character may only ever attempt a single Daemonic Summoning per game.
3) In Matched Play, only a sum total of three Daemonic Summoning attempts may be made across an entire game.
4) Units that are successfully summoned (see 8th Edition rules for "How that functions"), does NOT cost any reinforcement points or Command Points when placed on the battlefield.
5) All summoned units have a buff and a nerf rule that is tied to the Character that summoned it. These are:
A) The summoned unit has the Locus of Ruination ability (your Objective Secure rule) as long as the character that summoned the unit is alive and on the battlefield.
B) The summoned unit MUST take an Attrition test during each subsequent Moral Phase after the character that summoned the unit is removed from the battlefield or is slain. In addition, if there are no friendly Chaos Daemon character(s) left on the battlefield when this is resolved, you must also add 1 to the Attrition test (E.I. you fail on 1's and 2's. And when you are at less then half unit size you fail on 1's, 2's and 3's). Note that this will only apply to summoned units, not the Chaos Daemon units that are apart of your normal detachment(s).
Designer's Note: Yes, you do have to take an Attrition test even if you suffer zero casualties during that player's turn. And yes, if you also fail a Moral test in the very same turn this is resolved, you will be required to make a second Attrition tests in that very same Moral Phase (one does not exclude the other).
Sorry for the long text, but that's my take on the Chaos Daemons :)
Also, the 8th Edition version of Locus of Rage, Locus of Virulence, Locus of Swiftness, Locus of Trickery are renamed Herald of Rage, Herald of Virulence, Herald of Grace and Herald of Illusion respectively.
How good is Slaanesh gonna be in the new edition?
Well the contorted epitome and fiends are gonna be much better now that desperate breakout is a thing, daemonettes at 7 ppm and the changes to detachment rules helps with CP. They're super fast so they have particularly good board control, and their psychic discipline becomes somewhat more potent. Triple keeper of secrets is also still viable with just a single battalion and fight first is slightly better with the changes to the core rules and how close combat works. I think slaanesh are a bit better overall in 9th as a whole, but we won't know until everything starts seeing play.
The hugs will be plenty don’t you worry
Im really interested in slaanesh daemons too. Im ok with MSU style if modifier cap is sticked to +1/-1 & overwatch is not common feature.
If advance&charge slaanesh rule is still available, i dont mind having pink horrors msu/tzeentch prince/changecaster + unique cqc slaanesh characters.
I was always in ire to survive any overwatch. I just cant survive on turn3 in 8ed.
Do not forget, when choosing the Exalted trait for your Keepers, remember, against heavy shooting lists (that don't have S3) the -1 to Wound Rolls will always be better than the 4++, it cuts the average income damage by half (S4 to S6). S7 is still a better choice than 4++. Only against S8 you need to consider, but usually those are very limited so don't brother choosing the 4++. Only against melee heavy lists you should get the 4++.
Remember T'au? With -1 to wound rolls, the large majority of their attacks will only wound Keepers on 6+.
@@RoqueTheWar very interesting
And all the test players and gw missed this how?
they are the test players. GW doesn't care about any army outside of Marines, otherwise Eldar wouldn't be using sculpts from the 1990's.
Wait to see the points lists. Also they might be one of the factions to get a codex early
@@TheStrangeBloke it's out on goonhammer. Seems to be a mixed bag for deamons, deamonettes at 7pts is good, brimstones at 5pts is less so
They didn't miss it. They just got lazy and didn't care. They're leaning toward easy armies like Necrons and SPace marines
@@Somepomegranate link? I looked and ain't seeing points.
Made me laugh that you made lists for Chaos Daemons and immediately ignored everything Khorne.
would you do otherwise tho
"Oh, you like Khorne? We don't do that here."
Meanwhile AoS out there with beautiful minis and no worry about ranged "BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD, SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE!"
Daemon armies in AOS are surprisingly good. Khorne and Nurgle for life!
@@gudboah4688 most of them. Khorne is still the weakest, which is a bummer, especially if you're bringing any daemon unit besides thirsters or letters.
Flesh hounds are pretty good and the heroes aren’t too bad. Khorne may be the “weakest” of the god aligned factions but that’s only when you compare him to OP factions like tzeentch.
KLEENEX TAKEN OUT, IM READY! Ive been waiting for this so hard. I LOVE THESE VIDEOS SO FUCKING much guys! Thank you! This makes my warhammers rattle my entire office in excitement over beating the shite out of each other in 9th! HYPE IS REAL BITCHES. I love how you know all the factions, it just makes it so accessible to new players and advanced players alike. Games workshop should sponsor you. (Brian thinking: they already do..;)
I'm so happy, Khorne Skull Cannons can actually move and shoot and ignore cover.....hahahahahahahaa
I have 3... I still need 2 more :D
Thanks for the video and a great insight. Was wondering what you think of soul ginders. As we have a massive slanaash army currently being painted up. Christopher DBG
23:30 Command Re-roll cannot be applied to Morale tests in 9th.
Daemons definitely lack more armywide rules and bonuses, especially for mono-god choices. Not only their codex is smaller than the other races equivalent, but you also use about 30% of it if you're going Khorne-only, for example.
When are y’all doing one for Chaos marines?
If you do the raise banners high with furies what is stopping the enemy from just ignoring the screen and shooting those furies?
At the end of your own turn the banner will be raised and the enemy needs to control the marker to get rid of it. The furies aren't important anymore.
What are the rules for horrors? For a unit of 10 pink horrors do you need to pay the points for blue and brimstone horrors and add those points to the horror unit as a whole or can you just pay for the pink horrors?
No one seems to know. What size base does the fluxmaster use in 40k?
The command reroll is not allowed for morale checks!
5 Flamers have the same Power Level as 6 Flamers.
I really like that first list
Hello I am new and have a question if anybody could answer. I want to build a daemon army, I have purchased some models but upon arrival and inspection I realised that they may not work together.
I have brought
1x great unclean one
1x daemon prince
1x pox bringer
1x infernal enrapturess
1x blood master
1x bloodletter unit
And the bit that throws me off
I was gifted a death guard combat patrol, can I use this in the same list? If so, what disadvantages or advantages does it pose for me.
Thanks
GW kind of hate daemons tbh. Tzeentch is the god of magic... nah give them a loci for melee... and space marines are better psykers.
"space marines are better." here fixed that for you ;)
GW are biased against the antagonists - Chaos Marines & Daemons, Tyranids, GSC, Drukhari, Necrons... & biased towards the protagonists - Space Marines, Grey Knights, A.Mechanicus, Custodes, Craftworld Aeldari, Tau, Inquisition, Guard (Orks & Harlequins seem neutral)... They openly stated they were trying to make SM the ultimate armies in the game, ignoring all play testing advice & upsetting the ENTIRE community and meta. The army wide buffs & stratagems that Imperium get vs. Chaos through G'Knights & Guard are dumb.
@@ankharimcv9104 wait, can I get a source on GW openly stating that they want marines to be the ultimate armies in the game? I wouldn't be surprised, but that's a BIG claim to make
@@Howardax I wish I could provide that & yes, you are correct to question it ;) I'm pretty sure it was from a podcast talking about the conversations they had with play testers... (I don't want to guess & I'm not reviewing 20+ hours of podcasts :) ) Tbh dude, Frontline have been vocal about the feedback they gave on I'Hands and Fists being far too strong and GW ignoring their feedback & this perspective was 'apparently' prevalent within the play testing community (at the time, Frontline was my only known & outspoken play test source). I thinks this speaks towards backing up what I said; but I may have embellished a bit, so it's fair to call me on it ;) Btw, I'm also feeling the bias is dropping, since D'Guard are epic, T'sons are OK & CSMarines are not half bad... :D (I totally appreciate that I am also biased btw ;) )
I think they need to make blood letters higher point cost and do more damage and be a bit tougher. They are friggen bad ass demons wielding great swords.
As a Thousand Sons player I would love to see a rework of some of their daemon units. Particularly Horrors. I love the mechanics of them but paying the points for all those models that you might not even use just seems ridiculous.
I would be careful with that, Age of Sigmar is suffering greatly from a MSU pink horror unit effectively being 50 models you have to tear through. They're almost impossible to get off of objectives in that game and it doesn't even have rules like Objective Secured. Imagine if an obsec unit of 10 Pinks could churn out 20 blues and then 20 brims without paying for it. Its a ludicrous force multiplier for objective based games.
@@Drawomancer Sounds awesome.
I really think that Horror splitting should be points free (like take the points into accound in the base horror cost if you want it to cost something)
I play against a Daemons player fairly often so I just let him split his horrors all that he wants
And I thought tau and nids were dead this edition, jeez.
Are all of these videos going to reference the new points costs now that those are out?
Lets be real.. this army is bottom in 9th
Nah... we are starting 9th as trash tier...
Lol..
I have more confidence in my joke grot liberation army than I do my daemons right now.
Pretty sure tyranids were further gutted than daemons imo.
Yeah check out the ork video too. Also not good at all, so don't feel bad. I'd be willing to bet the genestealers are worse off too
Tbh, it’s a toss up between daemons and tyranids, with drukhari crying just in front of them.
@@sauceman3462 Orks have deff dreds, mech guns, killa kanz, Gork/Morkanauts, Lootaz, bikes, Meganobz, not to mention Deathskullz, Freebootas & Evil Sunz. Their codex is deep enough to adjust to the meta ;)
How do you Counter Tau or Necrons as a Slaanesh Army? Only about Mission hope?
All this talk of furies raising banners, what about nurglings starting on the objective midfield even if you go 2nd?
Is slaneesh and tzeentch a good mix for 40k
I just recently was talking to a friend of mine that wants to get into Warhammer 40K, and told him I have a Khorne Choas Deamon army, but after reading the new rules..... Completely unplayable now. Like, why would you take away the one thing that made them halfway playable to being like, eh, just deal with it?
of the 3 bloodthirsters, which do you think is best?
I would love to see what they would say now.
I'm not too familiar about how they are now, any good yet?
has something significantly changed?
They are top tier army now
Hi. I love your vids. Btw. BUT you Saying that obscuring conseal oure BT as long as it is lower than 18w ?? But as i have read it it states that only Infantry, beasts and swarms can be concealed. Rest you can shoot as normal ??? Can you post other rule that protect oure BT ?
Anything behind it, not in the terrain.
Source: page 263, Obscuring
So Even if they can see the wings then they cant shoot at it ?? As long as i dont stand in it ?
@@spilnukim38 yup
Please get to my Thousand Boys soon
Thoughts on bloodcrushers with brass stampede strat vs MSU? Too expensive?
Definitely. They are not survivable, and if you deepstrike them in, expect to pay 3-4cp to use the brass stampede stratagem. (Icon, Denizens, Stampede)
A unit of 5 models with 5-10 wounds seems like something a 3-demon unit of Bloodcrushers could deal with on the charge.
@@VorpalDerringer I think trading a 150pt unit and 2-3cp for a 5 man unit or even a 10-man unit with 5-10 wounds is not a good trade. On average, against MEQ, you're dealing 6-7 wounds on the charge with a 3-squad of crushers. It's just not enough return on investment.
Not a single thing about Khorn?.. my SO won't be happy about that
...Guys, you could at least have done a spotlight in each god =(
I love your work normally but this made me a little disappointed.
Not to sound spiteful but GW coddles khorne in every aspect aside from having a WE codex
How are nurgle daemons looking in 9th?
A sample size of 1. But I played a 1750 Pure nugle list against Tau this weekend. I killed a total of 4 models and won the game. He couldn't kill 90 plaguebearers to remove me from objectives and i just sat there and out scored him. It wasn't a very exciting game, I think he was trying to table me. He had no blast weapons though...another shooty army with those could have been rough
What is the big nurgle daemon in the middle??
How many times i can play the exalted Strategem on the same greater daemon before the game?
daemonets looking good now at 7pts!
yeah I wanna try them! I love daemonettes, but I don't think its gonna work haha
They were 6 pts per model...
No mention of khorne units? Damn.
This aged like fine milk, lol
Chaos Demons are currently tied for best faction along with Harlequins.
Is Khorne just not a thing as far as chaos demons lists?
Daemons are much less harsh moral... At least that's what the keeper of secrets says
Interestingly command point reroll doesn’t actually apply to morale
"Lesh" Harsh Morale. Nice.
Doesn’t even have the e man
So Khorne mono build is probably the worst army in 9th unless you try running a Kroot list........
Yup... you got me... cannot think of a worse army (GSC maybe, until players re-think their builds...) Try a patrol with 2x Skull Cannons, 30 Bloodletters (D'strike & Banner), Karanak & 1 Daemon Prince; then double summon for 2 more Skull Cannons on T1 ;) Skull Cannons are nasty mate, 80pts for D6 Battlecannon shots @ 3+BS, re-roll 1's, ignoring cover & they're not too shabby in combat when backed up with the DP ;) Have another look at your codex sir. You might want to build in some W'Eaters.... KILL, MAIM, BURN, MOFO!!! KHAAAAARNE!!! :D
@@ankharimcv9104 i would love to play a mono daemon of khorne list but you sacrifice psychic, shooting, lack resilience and due ti ne nerf of charges, tagging vehicle and introduction of blast weapons you are... Just fucked.
Don't diss my mono Kroot army cmon man xD
did i understood that correctly? orks do not get +1 for green tide and +1 for choppas?????? just one of them?
In 9th, the best you can do is + - 1
The + or - modifiers only affects hit and wound rolls.
No you got that wrong, they still get both. The max +1 or -1 is only for to-hit and to-wound.
tzeentch daemon thousand sons list playable at all？
Hey guys can anyone tell me the max damage you can get out of plaugebearers?
What does low sigh or losi mean
How do I deep strike in the daemons? 😭 Can't find that rule.
The "DENIZENS OF THE WARP" strategem
How to play Chaos Daemons in 9th edition
Don't
Autogenerated Korean subtitles? Nice!
Did cd get a 9th edition codex?
are Furies even Troops?