Dura Ace 9270 vs Sram Red AXS Shifting Tested and Compared
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- Опубликовано: 4 окт 2024
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9100 Rings on 9270 Vid Dura Ace 9200 Is It Compatible With r9100 Chainrings - Lets Find Out! #cycling #shimano
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Thanks so much for putting this video up! The reason I switched to Shimano was the poor quality control by SRAM. Definitely their customer service is great and they replaced parts, but I had multiple parts break on me. My Shimano Di2 has been rock solid for years.
thank you for sharing
Hi Jon, thanks for this video! I think you’re the only RUclipsr that has detail comparison in actual between these high end groupsets. More power to you and looking forward for more informative contents! Cheers!
thanks so much!!
Good comparison Jon. That front derailleur is hard to beat on Shimano. Its only close rival is the Campagnolo EPS (for the front). The EPS impressed me quite a bit.
Truth be told...that use case of immediately going from big to small and back again...is really not something most do IRL. But I agree that SRAM front is a bit more sluggish, and coarse.
Where SRAM wins (for me), is the more intuitive shift pattern. Easy to use, better with gloves, and better for gravel. (Although those top buttons are great on Shimano, as you can kinda make it SRAM like with those buttons to up/downshift).
Thanks for making the video. Glad I went Di2 on my new bike. Ultegra. Reasons were;
-Better front deraileur, I keep hearing of chain drops and slow shifts on sram.
-Charging one long lasting battery sounds easier
-Etap batteries look ugly and chunky
-slightly lighter
-levers look higher quality, actually all of it looks higher quality
-already used to shimano mechanical shifting so I don't care about the simplicity of sram shifting.
SRAM looked easier to find in stock but I wasn't gonna settle.
Nice!! thank you for sharing. appreciate it
After a lifetime of riding Shimano (since 1990), I went to SRAM a few years ago. Mechanical on my gravel bike and then electronic on my road bike. I plan to go back to Shimano when I get new bikes. Shimano is just more robust, more consistent, and just more reliable. I really wanted to love the SRAM electronic and it is OK but has its flaws. I went mechanical SRAM because I wanted a 1x and it was the only option at the time.
One of the problems with the Sram front derailleur is the delay needed for it to recognise the difference between a single tap rear gear change and a double tap front derailleur change. Sram can only add a front derailleur button to avoid this. I'd also like some additional hood buttons!
thanks for sharing!
@@jonmaloneycycling7593 Thanks for this video the editing must've taken you ages! Superb.
Personally I’d rather have the new Ultegra 12-speed or previous generation 9170 over the Red AXS, nevermind the new 9270. The level of refinement on the sram is now where near that of Shimano.
thanks for sharing, appreciate it
I would agree 100%. I came off of Dura Ace and moved over to SRAM what a big mistake. I have dropped countless chains while riding and notice how slow it is to shift.
another great video. thanks for sharing. the videos/slow-mos help to make our own decisions as well. I also think, that both are great, but Shimano is ahead. But will also be interesting how they advance in the next few years. Shimanos front derailer really seems to work nice.
thank you for your comment, appreciate it
Great content. Amazed by how you could synchronize the trainer display. You have some editing skills!
thank you
Love your component test, with “can do” attitude! Great job, Jon.
thank you
Hi Jon,
Inspired by your video, I use Shimano 12s chain and 12s cassette with 9100 chainring to fix my SRAM Red AXS group set chain drops over big chainring issue. I really like this mix!The Red FD performance was also improved. And no issue on Red RD.
Nice!! thanks for sharing
Not experienced with either . In the end , went with SRAM for my new build based on a completely wireless system and design / looks. I get the feeling most pros and experienced cyclists end up going with Dura Ace. Hope to finally put the SRAM thru it’s paces and hope quality is good . Certainly not an inexpensive group set and hope I didn’t make a mistake . Thanks for the video
fact is jumbo visma been using the SRAM groupset on their cervelo for big 3 tour this year and they wont it all. and the chain didnt drop once.
the rumors shows the next gen of SRAM red has a small button added on the shifting level. guess the next gen will use that button to control the bike computer. so by that time, these 2 high end groupset will be pretty much the same.
Thanks for making the video, I was curious about actual speed differences and came across your video in my search. I prefer the Red groups, I have two bikes with Red, former DA rider. I do believe that many people like DA because the rear shifts are quieter, but the engagement on my red has been solid and consistent and I could care less that there's a little more of a "clunk" sound. The front speed of etap has never bothered me, even on my rolling hills rides mostly because I don't need the speed. Even when I was a racer in my 20s on mechanical groups, I never need fast chainring shifts, just fast rear shifts, especially when winding up my crit sprints.
thanks for the comment bro!!
It will be interesting to compare it with Campag Super Record EPS, because... I'm european 😉
good idea!
Historically been a Shimano user minus a Red eTap group I used recently for just over 2 years.
I’ll definitely go back to shimano next time even though I’m not crazy about a couple things. 1) the appearance of the new DuraAce 12 speed (for the price, the appearance is lacking). 2) I want a 12/25 or even 11/25 cassette option and have no use for a rear cog with more than 25 teeth.
thanks for sharing
I have the Red and I have noticed that there is a little lag on the front. It really hasn't been an issue for me and I ride where there are primarily short rolling hills. The only time you can say it was an issue is when I was zoned out and not paying attention, so had to make an abrupt change. I have experienced the chain drops on occasion myself. I think I have it setup perfectly and will still on occasion experience one. Oh, something else I noticed the Red doesn't like is sometimes when I change the front chainring and the rear too quickly together. I've experienced a few chain drops then.
thank you for sharing your experience
Another great video Jon! I run SRAM Red 1x on my TT bike. I love it, but that Shimano FD looks fast AF! I always wanted to go up to 2x to stop grinding on hills! I might have to really look at Shimano if I go that route though! Thanks for the video and stay safe riding 🤜🤛
thank you!! happy riding
Jon
Love your videos! Just got my new Lynskey Helix titanium with the SRAM Force eTap a few weeks ago. Love that group and that Force carbon crank is beautiful! From what I have seen in your video, the difference in speed between eTap and Di2 is so minute, that it comes down to what flavor you want or if a self centering front derailleur is critical to you. One thing I noticed about the Force is that when I squeeze the brakes with my 4th and 5th fingers( We always count from the thumb in radiology)wrapped around the bar/brake hood, the shift levers will contact/crush your fingers unless you have your brake lever adjustment all the way out from the bar and the brake pad contact as close as possible. Other than that, I did have a slight issue with the SRAM App, getting it to recognize the shifters. I called SRAM and the guy said to do a search for it through the SRAM magnifying glass at the top right of the screen, instead of clicking on the lever icon itself. Cool stuff and I love the sound of that little servo motor on the front derailleur when it shifts!👍🏻😁
thanks for sharing!! appreciate it
awesome video! just the one I am looking forward to it. couldn’t find a video that do a test like you do. keep it up! great job!
thanks so much!!
Best comparison on RUclips! Thank you!
Shimano is more pro and maybe better for races, the sram feels more modern and comfortable.
wow thank you!!
To say that Ace is "more pro" than Red honestly is a difficult statement to support. Ace, Red and EPS - when properly set up - are on the same identical level. With the only real difference (neither better nor worse) that Red is a fully wireless system.
the new hyperglide + system clearly works
Nice
Hi John, great content. What do think of Phil Gaimons recent claim that SRAM will cost you in the region of 40 watts over the Shimano equivalent?
Thanks man!! I have to watch this video, bold claim!
Try breaking tests. Like you did with oil on the rotors.
Good idea!
Great video! I haven’t tried the new Shimano but I have also found the front derailleur shifting on the red axs to be very clunky
thanks for sharing
Great video Jon. I think basically you’re right, it depends on someone preference. Some are diehard Shimano lovers and some are Sram. Some likes the technology and functionality. Some likes one is lighter than the other and better gear ratio.
The real kicker is, I’m curious what Shimano or Sram engineers thinks about this.
Hope all is well…
thanks for the comment! hope all is well with you too
I finally got my Scott addict pro with 9270, honestly I miss my old generation di2 these new shifters are way too big. Shifting is better, no questions about that. I am getting lots of attention with these shifters but as you said in your first videos, about 9270, there is no reason to upgrade.
thanks for the comment
Great video comparison! I'll still go for sram for the complete wireless setup, anyway who uses the front derailleur like that in real life?
thanks for the comment!
flawless video, thank you for making it!
thanks for watching!
SRAM AXS front derailleur may needs some adjustment, looks like it's too outward making it down shift to small gear irresponsive.
SRAM AXS maybe has delay, but not shift at all? must be something wrong
thanks for the feedback!
@@jonmaloneycycling7593 I do agree, take a look on that! The delay is a thing, but no way it takes that long ;) (Shimano's reactivity is absolutely outstanding!!)
Also, I think the rear derailleur has some issues too: If you pay attention, when you change from the 10th to the 9th cog under load with the Red (eg. 10:27), the chain freezes every time. It should not happen. Probably one tap of micro-adjustment inward will fix it immediatly.
Great video, thank you!
@@jonmaloneycycling7593 I had to double check so I put my bike on the stand, and switced the FD many times over many cogs combination:
The FD inward change (big-small) is instantaneus. The little delay is actually happening on the ourward change (in-out), but it really is DIFFICULT to notice. Therefore I can assure you with a 100% of confidence that your FD is wrongly set-up. The delay you have is absolutely not normal, actually is not even a delay, the derailleur have no chance to move the chain to the small ring because the derailleur's H screw is setting the derailleur's arm too much outward ;)
Best!
The high/low limits look way off on the SRAM FD. I suspect you are getting outboard chain drops with it the way it is. The SRAM FD takes a bit of work to get it tuned just right. Keep using the little red alignment tool, just spend some time getting those limit screws set right - it's well worth it. Make sure you have the wedge installed too. Also the SRAM FD over-shifts. For example, if you are in the big cog and the little ring then shift over to the big ring, the FD will over-shift outboard, then shift back to the home position. This is where the high limit screw needs to be set correctly or you will drop a chain outside. Same goes for shifting the opposite. I also notice a big difference in shifting performance with SRAM AXS 12sp if the chain lube isn't right.
For a real world comparison just shift from one chain ring to the other (big-small & small-big). Who shifts big-small-big? No-one... I don't understand all of these 'tests' I'm seeing where people are shifting big-small-big with Dura Ace. It's just not how a bike is ridden.
thank you for your comment
100% agree not real world, but it demonstrates the lag / speed differences clearly
Both FDs are mounted a bit high, don’t you think? I’ve found the best shifting with the AXS FD is with a cage height 1mm above the tallest tooth, a high limit gap of .2mm and the tail guide mark parallel with the chainring or very slightly inboard.
Great video. I'm no expert, but from the video I had the impression that on the Shimano, the chain kind of jumped from a cog to the next at each shift, while the SRAM seemed to move more smoothly... I wonder how it would look on a slower frame rate video!
I have other videos comparing them in slomotion
Great video Jon, impossible to do it 'perfectly' whatever that is. Would take either but if i had the choice i would go Dura Ace 👌
thank you!!
sram are easy to build and set up, if you go for long range or bike packing. sram is the one. also for gravel riding, sram xplr is the best option cuz its durable and because it only comes with 1x, you wont be worry about FD shifting.
shimano are more for a time trial, competion racing on a road/aero bike. every seconds is counting, its for these people shifting often and need speed shifting. also the button control does help you for reading your garmin computer while riding. so if you are pro or someone like chris froome, keeps your heads down watching the bike computer all the time checking your watts and ride as fast as you can, shimano then.
to be honest it doesnt has which one is better or worse, ive seen so many people rumors about sram red dropped the chain all the time bla bla, but i didnt seen anyone from jumbo visma dropped chain once in TDF this year, and i never experence that on my sram force xplr once.
also here in new zealand, sram red axs are about $700 cheaper than Duraace di2. you know which one i will choose.
Hi. Very informative video. I recently bought the new ultegra groupset and am not very happy from the rear shifting.. there is a lag sometimes and you just don’t feel that it is responsive to cyclists needs when riding. I used to use the mechanical 6800 and would definitely prefer that when it comes to shifting response in the rear. Ur videos are very informative and would like to know more about wheel depth performance. Again, my experience with deep wheels (50-60) is not that pleasant as compared to the 45s. Your thoughts please
Thanks man, I go with the 303s or 37s, I like them because they are light weight and still arrow. I find the deeper wheels shake the front end around too much
That clunky SRAM sound - don't miss it at all
Nice
Great video, i have owned both shimano and sram.. once you nail perfect on sram you dont have to touch it any more (harddest part) :) great video by the way
thanks so much
I gotta say, Srams upshifts are better than Shimano. Faster and smoother from my personal riding experience. However, the downshift feels harsh on Sram. Thats my takeaway with my 10-36 cassette. I might mention your cassette can give you a better experience in shifting performance. The wider range Sram cassette, XPLR, has some harsh shifting as well due to gaps in the harder cogs. Same with all of them. But in the easier gears, its easy.
thanks for sharing!!
abit off topic, but I notice you still use the older dura ace 11 speed crankset with the Quarq. I'm about to get the 12 speed ultegra groupset and was looking to put the Quarq dfour on that crankset. I'm guessing you tried to put it on the 12 speed crankset you have and it didn't fit? or are you just waiting until aesthetically it lines up nicer and buying a new version if it comes out? Curious to know if the Dfour will still work on 12 speed, as even Quarq can't seem to answer me on that one.
The reason is I want the power meter, as soon as I can get the quarq that takes the 9200 rings, I will use that, but its not available yet. This works fine for now
SRAM a USA company at 13:38? Yes and no. Based in the US, yes. After their takeover of Sachs (Germany) in 1997, their former Sachs location in Schweinfurt is still a (maybe the?) major driver of groupset engineering for road & MTB.
Thanks for the info!
Good video. The shifting on the shimano front mech was super impressive. How do both feel when out of the saddle?
They both feel really good,. Thanks man!
Great review. Thanks for this. It actually helps for buying decisions.
Just one question. What difference does the nation of the company make?
I'll go Dura Ace 9270 for my new build. The paddle shifting thing on SRAM seems very bizarre to me personally. As you said.....It's preference.
Yes exactly!!
I would like to see how they perform if you mix them. Shimano shifters and derailleurs with the sram cassette, chainrings and chain and also the other way Sram shifters and derailleurs with Shimano cassette, chainrings and chain. Both groupset are 12 speed now, so I think that can work. just because you mentioned the different gear ratio between the two groupset.
Great idea, stay tuned
Nice test! Just a question about the SRAM Red front derailleur, did you calibrate/adjust it before the test the same way you did for the Shimano?
See that you found it :)
@@jonmaloneycycling7593 I have a new Lynskey Helix Ti disc shipping on the 25th, which has the Force eTap. I’m just concerned about that front derailleur with its hesitation and lack of a trim feature. I hope they can do a software update, to make that front derailleur trim like Shimanos.
@@AOL0321 keep us updated on how it works out
This is an amazing video!! Thank you so much for putting so much effort into this! I just got Di2 Ultegra for my build. I really wish it was the 12sp, but that looks impossible to get this year, so I just bought the 11sp and will change it next year or something. The one thing I hate most abotu SRAM is how ugly their cranksets are. I know it's subjective, but damn; they don't even look generic, they look offensively ugly.
thanks for sharing
I got my new 12 speed Ultegra last month. Apparently supply is better in Europe than in America. Very happy with it.
@@zodgzod I'm in Canada; supply here is terrible. There's a shop near me that said they'd get some groupsets mid-March, but I'm not gonna be baited by incorrect dates. I'm glad I got the 11 speed. Maybe I'll switch it to the 12 speed Ultegra with the built in power meter next year.
I totally agree 💯...sram cranks are augly
Well it did not shift because if you double tap you are sending the order of changing the front derailleur up and down
Hi Jon, I really like and appreciate your videos. I’ve a question about the different feelings of the chainrings of the two groupsets. I mean, I suppose with Shimano you use a 36-52, don’t you? And with Sram? Did you use the 37-50? Did you feel any difference while you were pedalling with a little chainring? For instance, I use Shimano with the 36-52 and when I tried again a 34-50 the feeling with the 50 was bad. I hope my question is clear enough. Thank you
What do you mean the feeling was bad? The gearing has a lot to do with the terrain of the road and elevation
@@jonmaloneycycling7593 I meant the sensation on legs. I've a different feeling with the same final gear ratio but different chainrings. I prefer pedal a bigger chainring than a little one, so I'm afraid that move from a 52 Shimano to a 50 Sram could give me a not so good feeling on pedal. Did you experience any like this?
@@jonmaloneycycling7593 May I ask you what chainrings and cassette are you using now with Shimano and before with Sram? Thank you!
@@Mirko_B. I am currently out of the office using 53/39 and 11 -30 with the shimano and with Sram I used 37/50 and 10/33
@@Mirko_B. Yes, if you like the gearing you have I would keep it and not change it. If I put a 50 tooth chainring on my bike right now, I would not like it all
I like them both but what about the new xt and xtr 2x for mountain bikes , no you/tube on the new front derailer and it’s interesting that Shimano is still making 2x which could really be cool for a hardtail mountain biker/ gravel rig
good point
Red rd outside cage side looks like far from chain. Mayby limit screw need turn.
thanks for the comment
Hello Sir I'm Asking That In My TT Bike I Have 11 Speed Dura Ace R9100 Groupset and now i want to move 12speed R9200 Dura Ace,
Than What's things i need to replacement RD+FD+Cassette+Chain, Right?
Than 11 Speed Wires and Junction Box And My Bar End TT shifters Will Work Perfectly When I Install New Derailleur?
Please Reply
You need to replace everything but the front chainrings
@@jonmaloneycycling7593 sir than old junction box will work? Or we need wire convert adapter?
How u test is great we see the difference. But we see the reason the many pros complain about sram when it. Comes to the hills a lot of them lose contact to the group about FD so i like the u. Patriotic but if it doesn’t work sorry I buy shimano pls cont your content it helps a lot greetings from 🇦🇹🇦🇹🇦🇹✌️✌️✌️
thank you!! appreciate it
Forgot to mention. Maybe you do a video on the braking between the two groups? Any differences there?
Great idea
Sorry, Just saw your calibration of the SRAM about 16 minutes in.
yes!!
Great video, what you did takes time to do and I appreciate that. As for sram or shimano. I not a pro and with that I am not going to pay 4 Gand plus for a Dura Ace. That’s 2 sram rival etap. I bet your won’t be faster on the road with a Dura Ace. I can put money on sram rival & enve foundation wheels and upgrade the cassette, chain and crank with red with power meter . And if you go down and mess that rear derailleur that is 759.00 to a rival 200.00 or Red 300.00. So for the Shimano Dura Ace is a waste of money. Unless you buy bike with it. As far as its made in the USA. If you say that about you truck you should have Sram as well. I have Shimano but it will be coming off for Sram just waiting to get my bike apt. I wont go back to Shimano unless the come down on the price. I’ll take that 4 grand and buy bike frame and get sram. Lol Shimano parts will be on eBay soon. Lol That all facts from a old 53 year old veteran 22 years of service.
thank you for the comment, appreciate it!!
Hi Jon, this is Peter, we cycled last fall together from Chris H place. I really like your video. My question is, how was chain tension on SRAM vs Shimano?, and do you think oversize pulley like ceramic speed or SLF motion which I have just installed few weeks ago on my cycling trip in Florida will make any difference in shifting and tracking? Have fun Arizona.
Thanks for your comment bro!! Yes, I think you need a longer chain for the oversized pully wheels
Hello Jon ! Can you do a video about The Hammerhear Karoo 2 profiles and recommendations… thanks 🚴🏽♂️💨👍🏼
Thanks man, will do!!
Who win?
SPRINT SHIFTING , get out on the road and shift at 800-1200w
Nice
Hi John, can u help me?
Did u have any issues with chain drop, when shifting to big ring. Almost time when de cogs is in the middle. I have a tarmac sl7 s-works, and can fix this problem!
Awesome video. Weird question, would you see if the sram RD works with a Shimano 12 speed cassette and chain? I love my force setup but its so dam loud no matter what I do, I wonder if I could swap out the cassette chain and chainring and maybe pulley wheels to get things nice and quiet but still have the fully wireless as my bike is entirely external routing.
Great idea, stay tuned
I "setup my front derailleur" by removing it and tossing it into the trash can...makes a satisfying thud sound.......😀
LOL
Thanks for video. Can you please compare compact 50_34 and standart 53_39 Shimano chainrings shifting quality under load?
Thx great idea!
how about sound level differences while shifting. Which is louder.? Interesting video.
I don’t notice a difference in sound at all
Hi Jon, could you please make a video of your Sram Red etap Axs group using shimano 12-speed cassette/wheelset. I want to know if this setup shifts ok and quietly.
Great idea!!
Hi, where did you buy that tool to install your FD at 14:53 timing in your video?
The red thing? It comes with the bike
@@jonmaloneycycling7593 oh I see. I thought you bought it separately. When I bought the older 11 spd version. It does not come with that kit
I have SRAM Red AXS and I have never had a problem shifting either direction on the front chainring. You clearly didn’t have it aligned correctly, primly the inner stop screw. There were a number of advantages of SRAM over Di2 that you left out. Do you work for Shimano??
You are wrong, I know many people including the owner of my LBS and they have a joke: that’s why sram invented the 1x, because their front derailleurs don’t work. On the shoot out here in Tucson yesterday, I had to push a guy to the next stop light because Sram Red Axs kicked off his chain a few times. If you ride hard and a lot you will run into front chainring issues. We have all seen the Bauke Mollema vid cursing sram during a race on live TV because it kicked off his chain from the front chain ring. No, I don’t work for shimano.
@@jonmaloneycycling7593 Big ring chain drops are due to inexperienced setup. Proper alignment and less than.05mm outer stop screw fixes chain drops. Noon in the two years I’ve had it. Enjoy your crap Shimano.
@@duraace No need to be that aggresive you little tu*rd. You can express you opinion without sounding like a butth*urt Sram fanboy.
I own a Sram Red eTap groupset and the shifting delay on the front derailleur is well known. It's also well known it hasn't gone on the newer 12speed. Never experienced a chain drop so far, so I also think he did not set it up properly, but there are ways and ways to tell things
We all have seen Wout Van Aert dropped his chain in the tour the France this year. Just a Sram problem? I rest my case. It’s all about good installation and that’s the same for Shimano as Sram.
Maybe look on the internet and you will find ton of problems with the new 12 speed shimano groupsets.
hi there! what's the difference between the performance of cassette with Hyperglide and HYperglide plus? is it minimal or the other way round?
I think hyperglide plus helps make it shift better
How did you get wahoo trainer set up with emonda
It says they are not compatible..
I put it on just like you put the wheel on, I never head of this before
@@jonmaloneycycling7593 Due to the deep dropout recess, the Émonda (and other Trek road bikes with disc brakes) isn't compatible with the KICKR.
The face of the KICKR's thru-axle adapter cap must make contact with the dropout's face. If you machine some metal off the adapter, you'll be able to make it work.
However, this is only if you'll never use the 12x148 mm side of the adapter.
@@yonglingng5640 thank you for the comment
Cool video
thank you
what wheels and tires are you running on your emonda?
I am currently running zip 303 with Schawlbe pro 1 on the front and Conti 5000gp s on the back, both are 30s
Thé answer: Campagnolo 🤣 !
Lol
The fact that you put previous one on your wife bike and get DuraAce for yourself shows that DuraAce is better one for yoU ;-)
Lol good observation!!
Great video 👍
thanks!!
It's one world. Made in USA, Japan, Europe, or China doesn't matter. Choose whoever does it best at a price you are willing to pay.
thanks for the comment
I would prefer a full wireless Shimano.
Nice!!
IDK why but even when ultegra costs 1000 bucks more than sram rival axs (with power meter) in my area, I would still go for the new ultegra di2 with favero pedals.
Nice
Shimano is the ultimate KING!
Nice!!
Sram > Shimano
Nice
i could of saved you the time campagnolo is far better than both these groupsets period
Nice
The gearing on sram is way better than shimano and I prefer the shifting of sram.
nice, thanks for sharing
Dura ace all day long 🤣
Nice!!
I got red AXS HDR. They (levers) are pretty comfortable but definitely too big. If I could buy again, I would buy Dura Ace 😢
In roadbike shimano is the top,In mtb sram is the top
Nice
New sram chain looks and feels like shite
SRAM sucks