Jordan Peterson and Roger Scruton on the Transcendent
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- Опубликовано: 30 июн 2024
- A conversation between Dr Jordan Peterson and Sir Roger Scruton, moderated by Dr Stephen Blackwood, introduced by Professor Douglas Hedley, presented by The Cambridge Centre for the Study of Platonism and Ralston College, held on November 2nd, 2018 in Cambridge, England.
Links of possible interest:
Ralston College
www.ralston.ac
Stephen Blackwood
www.stephenjblackwood.com
#RalstonCollege
Applications for Ralston College's MA in the Humanities for 2023 are now open: www.ralston.ac/humanities-ma
This is an absolutely brilliant discussion. It's almost a crime for this information to be viewed only 3,000 times 2 years later.
It's a niche
There is another couple versions of it on RUclips, on Petersons channel it has almost 1 million views
Scruton himself is embarrassingly under-appreciated in the US.
It is so wonderful that these two got to talk together!
I'm looking forward to starting my Master's of the Liberal Arts from Ralston College. That's the kind of talk I'm looking forward to having there.
How is your master's degree going?
@@proudatheist2042 im quite curious too actually, how is it going?
Dear Sir,
I hope you're finding your time at Ralston, even
more than you anticipated.
And that you surely go forward to encourage others
in the pursuits. All my best to you Professor.
5k views, 150 "likes" (8 dislikes!)
30 comments (mostly encouraging)
And
RUclips knows how much we watched and who we all are
"What's transcendent is more real than the reality you perceive.'
Keep these coming Blackwood. And thanks!
A fascinating conversation. Well done
Great!
Thanks you for this video. Is truly invaluable.
very interesting conversation and guests! - certainly poorly promoted on youtube
True.
Beautiful conversation about the transcendent! Some points I found enlightening:
9:00 chemicals that disrupt the inhibition of perception by memory. What’s transcendent is more real than the reality you perceive
11:00 I’m always curious about the 3rd person expression of the “transcendent”
13:15 ”it has something to do with its convergence with the narrative that drives us - whatever that be”
14:45 Jungian Self. Would that transcendent higher mode of being be consistent with a part of the self Jung described or would it be apart from that? Like could you ground the transcendent part of the self between the ego/superego?
43:30 “first we have to identify those aspects of the human condition that move on their own accord toward reconciliation”
51:00 post-modern lens
56:40 “important that noble characters are seen in a condition of loss - living as another and not as a self”
1:01:30 very interesting conceptualization
The Remembrance poppies are a nice touch.
The idea of the loss of the sacred, of the sacrament, being a threat to our humanity is very good.
I hadn't realized that Scruton was such a conservative leading light:
>>"It cost me many thousand hours of unpaid labour, a hideous character assassination in Private Eye, three lawsuits, two interrogations, one expulsion, the loss of a university career in Britain, unendingly contemptuous reviews, Tory suspicion, and the hatred of decent liberals everywhere. And it was worth it."
"Replace pure by applied mathematics, logic by computer programming, architecture by engineering, history by sociology: the result will be a new generation of well-informed philistines, whose charmlessness will undo every advantage which their learning might otherwise have conferred."
Brilliant.... Great people.
Amazingly, inspiring! Keep up the good work Dr. Blackwood! I think especially you have a lot of potentials in front of you, to actualize. (Ralston College for instance)
This was, to me, a great conversation with such thought provoking comments.
What an under-rated video!
Something that goes beyond becomes eternal
We can transcend from life to death and back to life
Our body goes back to dust Love transcends after death
It’s how I perceive it I don’t claim it as truth because I keep learning and modifying when Im wrong because im mostly wrong than right
Because everything can be known more than it’s known
Two of my all-time favorite human beings. Too bad William Buckley, Jr. and Christopher Hitchens couldn’t be there.
Me and my husband are in bumping heads and stepping in each other dance our hope is to get it right some day and dance beautiful and peacefully . hopefully 🙏🏼 He can learn to lead and I can learn to trust and follow
I’m great full for my home I’m great full for being out here where Iam now I’m great full to God allowing me to be born and carrying me to this point because if I wasn’t useful to God I wouldn’t even exist
Anna Karenina has been released as an audio book and read beautifully by Maggie Gyllenhaal.
40:24
In Suomi language:
Adam - Äideem - Our Mother;
Eve -Haava - (helper) via the loukkaus (Logos)
15:59 In Suomi language:
Saam saara - we get to receive; parahimman - of the best
What's the name of that music in the background
Would be good to hear whatever Q&A there was, assuming there was one...any chance?
ruclips.net/video/zP07A_F3rRY/видео.html
Intro song anybody? I thought it was a Mozart Fugue, but i can't find it.
Could a kind soul tell me the name of the church featured in the thumbnail please? Much appreciated and kind regards from Florence, Tuscany.
There needs to be à video about music. As part of humanism. See Pythagoras.
Even if you deconstruct Michelangelo's Pietá into a fine sand, it is not possible to reconstruct it, let alone into a better sculpture.
Do You understand why? Can You see it?
Would have been nice if a gender (feminist) studies or Marxist scholar was part of the discussion. She/he would have been outraged. The discussion transcended needlessly from apprehending the transcendence to transcending inapprehensibly back to material empiricism losing the opportunity to delve into the multiple beauties of transcendence abstractions.
The most destructive impulse in humanity today is the one that must not be named. Envy! The wish not so much to also possess what your neighbor possesses, but the wish, primarily, that your neighbor not get to enjoy their own rewards for their own meritorious efforts. It is the wish that the other should not be allowed to enjoy their successes, because it makes oneself feel smaller for not being able to achieve the same standards of excellence. Europe murdered six millions Jews not for their vices, but for their virtues that others had not achieved yet. Such motivations burn all the more brightly precisely because they must never be named. To hate another for their superior merit and achievement is to announce to oneself, and others, how you prefer to tear down another, to making the efficacious effort to rise oneself up. It is so much easier to destroy than to create. Most unfortunate is how thoroughly satisfying it is to vandalize something beautiful, precisely because one is incapable of creating such beauty oneself.
There will be many readers who will not have any understanding nor context for what I have said above. Is such naïveté a valued deficiency, or an even more dangerous flaw? Monsters, like envy, exist in this world. Those, who are incapable of recognizing such monsters, are one of the principle reasons that such monsters gain such a foothold in this world,... before they are overcomed and dislodged.
There might well have been a time in ancient human pre-history when envy was an advantageous quality,.. but it will likely end in humanity's extinction if we don't recognize envy for the vestigial, atavistic, emotion that it most certainly is in the modern era.
*_Envy directed against personal qualities is the most insatiable and poisonous because the envious is left without hope; it is also the lowest type of envy for it hates what it ought to love and respect._*
~ Arthur Schopenhauer
*_Envy blinds men and makes it impossible for them to think clearly._*
~ Malcolm X
*_I have no respect for the passion for equality, which seems to me merely idealizing envy._*
~ Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr.
*_Envy plus rhetoric equals 'social justice'._*
~ Thomas Sowell
*_The vision of the left, full of envy and resentment, takes its worst toll on those at the bottom - whether black or white - who find in that paranoid vision an excuse for counterproductive and ultimately self-destructive attitudes and behavior._*
~ Thomas Sowell
_So long as people are certain that virtue lies entirely with themselves,.. or when obedience to the state is the absolute, unqualified value,.. _*_they then make horror inevitable!_*
*_The most terrifying thing is to accept oneself completely._*
~ Carl Jung
So where does hope lie? I believe hope primarily lies in humility, in doubt, in being at ease with not knowing,.. and in a libertarian's innate distrust towards the first use of violence.
*_Success is born out of arrogance, but greatness comes from humility._*
~ Marco Piere White
*_Filling the conscious mind with ideal conceptions is a characteristic of Western theosophy, but not the confrontation with the shadow and the world of darkness. One does not become enlightened by imagining figures of light, but by making the darkness conscious._*
~ Carl Jung; The Philosophical Tree; CW 13: Alchemical Studies. P.335
*_People don't have ideas. Ideas have people._*
~ Carl Jung
*_Moral certainty is always a sign of cultural inferiority. The more uncivilized the man, the surer he is that he knows precisely what is right and what is wrong._*
~ H.L. Mencken
*_All human progress, even in morals, has been the work of men who have doubted the current moral values, not of men who have whooped them up and tried to enforce them._*
~ H.L. Mencken
*_The truly civilized man is always skeptical and tolerant, in this field as in all others. His culture is based on 'I am not too sure'._*
~ H.L. Mencken
*_The public, with its mob yearning to be instructed, edified and pulled by the nose, demands certainties; it must be told definitely and a bit raucously that this is true and that is false. But there are no certainties._*
~ H. L. Mencken
Or consider what insights evil has into our hidden motivations,.. ignoring, for the moment, who the messenger is.
*_I know that fewer people are won over by the written word than by the spoken word and that every great movement on this earth owes its growth to great speakers and not to great writers._*
~ Adolf Hitler, _Mein Kampf_
*_The masses of the people prefer the ruler to the suppliant and are filled with a stronger sense of mental security by a teaching that brooks no rival than by a teaching which offers them a liberal choice. They have very little idea of how to make such a choice and thus they are prone to feel that they have been abandoned._*
~ Adolf Hitler, _Mein Kampf_
*_The state must declare the child to be the most precious treasure of the people. As long as the government is perceived as working for the benefit of the children, the people will happily endure almost any curtailment of liberty and almost any deprivation._*
~ Adolf Hitler
Hello Dave. I see the mission continues!
45:45 You might become interested to study the sacred Suomi lavatanssit.
Because things are truly masked is why the need for discernment
Which are masked lies with truth and which truth are masked as lies
Men are granted some form of power to be the head of a woman and it’s not a rule invented by men is a Heavenly commandment
It’s not to control her with force and violence
It’s a dance were the man leads and the woman follows The man moves her with love and grace while taking pleasure in the trust she displays while he moves her and spins her
Amazing conversation but did anyone else catch that little fart around 26 mins?
one million like button...
Mosh Pit or Orchestra Pit?
Scruton gave short shrift to JBP regarding his Ramones mosh-pit anecdote. While Bach's Bm Mass is certainly in the Pantheon, comparisons of this kind are futile. JBP's point was that a Ramones show / mosh pit was an equally unifying, transcendent experience, despite its raw, visceral milieu.
I find both genres unifying in their own way. The Ramones came on the scene as a counterbalance to an increasingly complex, money-driven and pretentious rock scene. They were a breath of fresh air: simple and supercharged, with a sense of humor. I've seen them at CBGB and also spent plenty of time at Lincoln Center. I would never choose one over the other.
Leonard Bernstein embraced rock music and its expressive, youthful intensity. I've often thought that if Bach or Mozart were alive today they would find Led Zeppelin, Van Halen, The Ramones, Jimi Hendrix and other genres compelling. Poor Bach probably didn't have a whole lot of musical choice.
Sir Scruton might enjoy these two transcendent, mosh-pit free rock experiences by The Doors:
1. When the Music's Over
2. The End (JBP is no doubt familiar with the Oedipal aspects on this one)
Fantastic conversation, please keep them coming. Looking forward to seeing Ralston College flourish.
18:51
Jordan just prompted a thought: if were to dose these guys with 150 micrograms of LSD, would they transcend, or would they become the babbling hippies awe struck for a half hour by a repeating skip in a vinyl copy of Electric Ladyland?
14:28 Logos - λόγος - lohkous, loukkaus in Suomi language. All being is polarized. As God and God's mirrors.
Intent, based, foundation and where your heart will be also will be determine. There are true watchers. True Kings and Priests of YESHUA Jesus and all tribes of judah. Upholders of God's True Will. Upholding God's True Will and COMMANDMENTS. The HOSTS of YESHUA Jesus christ, Jews, and Muslims. Know the TRUE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD. YESHUA JESUS FOR THE WISE OF THIS WORLD. 1ST. LOVE GOD 2ND. LOVE THY NEIGHBORS AS THYSELF. INDEED
Why do people like the "charm" of Foulcaut/Derrida? I would posit that it is a negative take on the parable of the merchant that found the pearl of great price (God/Wisdom), who sold everything he had and bought it. In this case the people who have found the pearl have no knowledge of how beautiful it is (they've never been educated to see it's worth) and throw it away as useless and keep on scrabbling through the mess they are in. The Foulcaut/Derrida "pearl of wisdom" appears to them to be of great price compared to everything else in the mess (now that the pearl of great price has been jettisoned). As that "the mess" is all they have to compare it to, having thrown away the only thing that (had they the knowledge) would have perhaps shown up the Foulcaut/Derrida "pearl of wisdom" for the dross it is, the Foulcaut/Derrida"pearl of wisdom" is the only "pearl of wisdom" they have left to purchase. I suspect that most of them now know the crock of s*** that they have acquired but are too proud to say they got it wrong and in Shakespeare's words in Richard III "I am so deep in sin that sin doth pluck on sin." In other words, I've gone so far down the wrong road that I'm damned if I'm going to stop, turn around, retrace my steps and start again. It's too much effort and loss of face.
Great comment
there are a few good ideas here but also some pretty "low resolution" strawmen of feminism, "post-modernism" etc
Calling Jordan Peterson "one of the foremost scholars of our age" make me think there's some money exchanging hands in the back ground. Love the hair on this opening speaker, right out of central casting. All of a sudden the non-existent Ralston (not the dog food) College is a heavy hitter here in Oxford. I smell fish.
I just smell cynicism.
@@phinehas611 - Looking at your home page, I smell a High School dropout.
@@johnsmith1474 LOL! A swing and a miss. But now I smell a troll, so feeding time is over.
@@phinehas611 - Yes, you reek.
@@johnsmith1474 "I think there's a resentment at work there [here] that's very , very deep. . .that there is a proclivity for those who do not manifest what they could manifest in the world, and thereby fail, to watch the success of those who do manifest what they could manifest in the world and succeed and become embittered by that. . . .and then to attempt to destroy it because it's simpler to do that than to do the radical, internal retooling that would be required to set things straight internally." 24:47