I am very new to Model Railways (although I am Nearly 60), and am grateful for videos like yours, I have watched a few now of yours, as well as other Modellers, and just wanted to say that I find yours easier to follow than some others. Thank you very much.
Thanks Colin. Glad you found it helpful. I try to explain everything down at a level that I understand. I’m fairly new into the hobby too and spent a little time deciphering some other instructional video and blogs
This is perfect thanks. I'm just about to start laying a garden railway and was looking for wiring techniques that didn't rely on fish plates, this perfect.
When attaching your droppers to the terminal tags, I would suggest... a) make a hook a the end of the dropper wire; b) insert the dropper wire through the hole in the terminal tag from the back (opposite to how you show it in the video); and c) solder the dropper to the front of the terminal tag The benefits would be... a) hooking the dropper wire through the hole will prevent it from falling out while you're getting the soldering iron ready; b) by inserting the dropper wire from the back and soldering to the front, you have a much larger surface area to which to solder.
Good job - enjoyed your video! Had a quick look on your website and went for skips, pallets, oil drums and cabinets! Looking forward to seeing how your layout develops!
Hi Paul. You’re correct. I’m aware that I haven’t shown that. I should have mentioned that until I settled in a new controller I’ve just left pair of trailing bus wires that loop to the top of the layout. No holes. I’m looking at handset type controllers in which case the power unit will be below the baseboard, so again no need for any holes in the baseboard
@@BuntersYard Personally, I went with the Digitrax Evolution Xpress starter set from Coastal DCC @ £360 (this was last August, so don't know what the cheapest price would be today).
When I built a model railway many years ago I used self adhesive copper tape as bus wires - especially for lights - as it meant I could solder anywhere without worring about stripping the insulation on the bus wires
Looks easy except have you tried soldering upside down with only a gap of 15” to get into? For an entire sixty foot layout that you can’t tip the boards up as it’s a shelf system?
Thanks for the informative video. I'd be interested to know what tool you used to strip the wire to solder to the holders. I'm looking forward to learning more in future videos.
Hi. Thanks for watching. The wire strippers are from Amazon: www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B08RD71M2T?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_dt_b_product_details I've added the link in the description also.
One of the problems with this approach is that it doesn't facilitate any sideways adjustment of the track position - the droppers physically prevent it. If you run the droppers out to the side of the track, you get provision for adjustment. Most people run a single bus on an end to end layout, but the fact that you have two gives you the opportunity to connect them together at each end and create a ring. This would have the benefit of equalising electrical load across the entire layout and is the same reason ring mains are used in UK homes.
@@westwonic Unfortunately, the basic principals of electricity and parallel wiring are widely misunderstood and have led to this popular myth! If you lay a circle of track on a 4x8 board with no insulated joints anywhere and connect your DCC system to it, what do you think the rails create ? A ring! And if you lay a second circle of track on the board around the first ring and then connect wires between corresponding rails of both, what do you think that is ? It is a bus in a ring with droppers running in parallel to the track in a ring. Some years ago, some electronics expert members of the UK's Model Electronics Railway Group (MERG) decided to investigate the popular myth that claims buses shouldn't be rings and they calculated that at the frequency that DCC operates, you would need a ring of at least 2km to even slightly 'widen' a bit received on the other side of a ring. And to completely offset the bits, you'd need multiple km more. IIRC they calculated around 10km. My own layout is a DCC bus ring of around 24m and this is probably larger than many layouts. At the lengths we are talking about, there is insufficient length to cause different data from two directions. Granted that some DCC system manufacturers state that their *cab* buses should not be wired in rings, but that is a separate bus and it is because the network topology isn't designed to operate in a ring.
@@gppsoftware your quoted circle of track is presumably made of Nickel Silver, whereas the bus wiring is hopefully copper wire. The data transmission is via the bus not the track, as evident on my layout which Includes a few reversing loops that include isolating fishplates that break that track circle. I have seen many videos that promote non-circular bus cables, and thus have wired mine accordingly with two buses, including a bus sniffer at each far end as sold by dcc concepts.
@@westwonic As I said elsewhere, the principals of electricity and parallel wiring are widely not understood. If you have a bus running parallel to rails with droppers running between them, the power and data transmission will be exactly the same, everywhere - the data doesn't 'choose' to run through the wires and not through the rails! Power and data transmission goes through wires only in the situation where there is a length of rail with a single dropper and it is isolated at both ends. It doesn't matter how many fishplates are involved (if any). The moment an extra dropper is added anywhere along the length, the wiring is no longer the sole transmitter of power and data because the parallel wiring equalises everything out in that area. The reason we use copper wire is because of its superior conductivity, meaning that it is much less likely to cause voltage drops due to resistance. Voltage drops are still possible if insufficiently rated wire (too thin) is used (gets worse with length) or poor connections at wiring joints are made. We use bus wiring so that we don't *rely* on fishplates as a means of electrical continuity, but where fitted, they will always (or should) be conducting. A bus enables us to insert insulated joints around turnouts and reverse loops etc and maintain power. In terms of the distances involved on most of our layouts, the electrical difference between nickel silver vs steel rail will make next to no difference, likewise, copper wire, assuming all connections are good and appropriately rated cable is used. In reality, nothing is perfect and standard of workmanship becomes a factor. Yes, you are correct that there are videos that promote non-circular bus arrangements. If you understand basic electrical principals, it becomes pretty obvious that the makers of these videos don't! There is only one proponent of (I think you mean) bus terminators/snubbers and he happens to be the same person who sells them and from whom you purchased them. They are not necessary. If they are making a difference, then you most likely have bigger problems and that snubbers are masking the problem, not fixing it. I have asked Lenz, NCE, Digitrax and the UK's 'Model Electronics Railway Group' (MERG) about all of this in the past and they all confirmed what I have written above.
Thanks for the advice. So - for example - If i have 3 train loops do I need a separate bus wire for each ? or could i run one bus wire underneath the centre loop and drop wires from each 3 loops to the single bus wire?
Yes you can use the same bus wire for all of the loops. There is a debate about whether you should connect the ends of the bus wire to form a complete loop, but I’ll let others fight that one out! 😂
This was a new way of connecting the droppers to the bus wire, for me. Thank you for that! But, can I ask; if you are using two separate lengths of bus wires, how are they both connected to the controller? Thanks for any advice - I'm sure I'm missing something fairly basic.
So both rails on a track are separated, one rail has the red wire while the other has a black wire. Then both of those wires connect to the bus wires, same thing, red to red, black to black, that bus wire eventually connects to the DCC booster/command station via the 2 screw ports made for power to the layout. One wire to one connection, the other wire to the other connection. Keep in mind, both wires have to be connected the same way on each booster if there will be more than 1 booster on a layout.
Thanks for the question. Each bus wire goes into the back of the controller - red to red, and black to black. So then all of the red wires, including the droppers become positive (in my case), and all the black will be negative.
I am very new to Model Railways (although I am Nearly 60), and am grateful for videos like yours, I have watched a few now of yours, as well as other Modellers, and just wanted to say that I find yours easier to follow than some others. Thank you very much.
Thanks Colin. Glad you found it helpful. I try to explain everything down at a level that I understand. I’m fairly new into the hobby too and spent a little time deciphering some other instructional video and blogs
Nice logical, neat and tidy approach.
Plus those tags make a nice job!
Thank you for sharing.
Glad you like them!
Really enjoyed this - very helpful and a good solution.
Glad it was helpful!
This is perfect thanks. I'm just about to start laying a garden railway and was looking for wiring techniques that didn't rely on fish plates, this perfect.
Glad it was helpful!
Love your videos - Very informative. I like your approach.
Thank you. Very nice if you to say 👍🏼
Looks fantastic, I only nailed my track no glue , going to subscribe your channel
Nice and clear information.
Glad it was helpful!
When attaching your droppers to the terminal tags, I would suggest...
a) make a hook a the end of the dropper wire;
b) insert the dropper wire through the hole in the terminal tag from the back (opposite to how you show it in the video); and
c) solder the dropper to the front of the terminal tag
The benefits would be...
a) hooking the dropper wire through the hole will prevent it from falling out while you're getting the soldering iron ready;
b) by inserting the dropper wire from the back and soldering to the front, you have a much larger surface area to which to solder.
Thank you. Some good pointers there
Good job - enjoyed your video! Had a quick look on your website and went for skips, pallets, oil drums and cabinets! Looking forward to seeing how your layout develops!
thank you. I've just seen your order and are about to make a start on your skips now.
This video was a life saver thank you great job!!!!!
Glad it helped!
Hi. Something RUclipsrs never seem to show is how bus wires enter the baseboard from the controller!
Hi Paul. You’re correct. I’m aware that I haven’t shown that. I should have mentioned that until I settled in a new controller I’ve just left pair of trailing bus wires that loop to the top of the layout. No holes. I’m looking at handset type controllers in which case the power unit will be below the baseboard, so again no need for any holes in the baseboard
@@BuntersYard Personally, I went with the Digitrax Evolution Xpress starter set from Coastal DCC @ £360 (this was last August, so don't know what the cheapest price would be today).
Thanks. I’ll give that a look.
Thanks a year on still useful Cheers Chris
Glad to help
Great video easily followed also well done
Glad it helped
Nice neat job 👍🏻
Thank you
When I built a model railway many years ago I used self adhesive copper tape as bus wires - especially for lights - as it meant I could solder anywhere without worring about stripping the insulation on the bus wires
Great suggestion. I'll check that out
Looks easy except have you tried soldering upside down with only a gap of 15” to get into? For an entire sixty foot layout that you can’t tip the boards up as it’s a shelf system?
Yes you’re right. It’s not easy and I can appreciate the difficulty
Hi what is the name of you wire cutters / strippers ? I am very impressed .
Thanks for the informative video. I'd be interested to know what tool you used to strip the wire to solder to the holders. I'm looking forward to learning more in future videos.
Hi. Thanks for watching. The wire strippers are from Amazon:
www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B08RD71M2T?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_dt_b_product_details
I've added the link in the description also.
Nice new video .Like it.
Thank you for joining us 👍🏼
Thanks for the info. Nice website too. I liked and subbed to the channel
Thanks for the sub!
@@BuntersYard you’re welcome. Keep up the good work
I also have a model railway in nsw Australia ,would be interesting if related ?
Hi Ron.
Bunters Yard is named after a street that i used to live in, not my name unfortunately, But thanks for tuning in!
One of the problems with this approach is that it doesn't facilitate any sideways adjustment of the track position - the droppers physically prevent it. If you run the droppers out to the side of the track, you get provision for adjustment.
Most people run a single bus on an end to end layout, but the fact that you have two gives you the opportunity to connect them together at each end and create a ring. This would have the benefit of equalising electrical load across the entire layout and is the same reason ring mains are used in UK homes.
Bus wires should not be laid as a ring due to digital data being received by a loco from two directions.
@@westwonic Unfortunately, the basic principals of electricity and parallel wiring are widely misunderstood and have led to this popular myth!
If you lay a circle of track on a 4x8 board with no insulated joints anywhere and connect your DCC system to it, what do you think the rails create ? A ring! And if you lay a second circle of track on the board around the first ring and then connect wires between corresponding rails of both, what do you think that is ? It is a bus in a ring with droppers running in parallel to the track in a ring.
Some years ago, some electronics expert members of the UK's Model Electronics Railway Group (MERG) decided to investigate the popular myth that claims buses shouldn't be rings and they calculated that at the frequency that DCC operates, you would need a ring of at least 2km to even slightly 'widen' a bit received on the other side of a ring. And to completely offset the bits, you'd need multiple km more. IIRC they calculated around 10km. My own layout is a DCC bus ring of around 24m and this is probably larger than many layouts. At the lengths we are talking about, there is insufficient length to cause different data from two directions.
Granted that some DCC system manufacturers state that their *cab* buses should not be wired in rings, but that is a separate bus and it is because the network topology isn't designed to operate in a ring.
@@gppsoftware your quoted circle of track is presumably made of Nickel Silver, whereas the bus wiring is hopefully copper wire. The data transmission is via the bus not the track, as evident on my layout which Includes a few reversing loops that include isolating fishplates that break that track circle. I have seen many videos that promote non-circular bus cables, and thus have wired mine accordingly with two buses, including a bus sniffer at each far end as sold by dcc concepts.
@@westwonic As I said elsewhere, the principals of electricity and parallel wiring are widely not understood.
If you have a bus running parallel to rails with droppers running between them, the power and data transmission will be exactly the same, everywhere - the data doesn't 'choose' to run through the wires and not through the rails! Power and data transmission goes through wires only in the situation where there is a length of rail with a single dropper and it is isolated at both ends. It doesn't matter how many fishplates are involved (if any). The moment an extra dropper is added anywhere along the length, the wiring is no longer the sole transmitter of power and data because the parallel wiring equalises everything out in that area.
The reason we use copper wire is because of its superior conductivity, meaning that it is much less likely to cause voltage drops due to resistance. Voltage drops are still possible if insufficiently rated wire (too thin) is used (gets worse with length) or poor connections at wiring joints are made.
We use bus wiring so that we don't *rely* on fishplates as a means of electrical continuity, but where fitted, they will always (or should) be conducting. A bus enables us to insert insulated joints around turnouts and reverse loops etc and maintain power.
In terms of the distances involved on most of our layouts, the electrical difference between nickel silver vs steel rail will make next to no difference, likewise, copper wire, assuming all connections are good and appropriately rated cable is used. In reality, nothing is perfect and standard of workmanship becomes a factor.
Yes, you are correct that there are videos that promote non-circular bus arrangements. If you understand basic electrical principals, it becomes pretty obvious that the makers of these videos don't!
There is only one proponent of (I think you mean) bus terminators/snubbers and he happens to be the same person who sells them and from whom you purchased them. They are not necessary. If they are making a difference, then you most likely have bigger problems and that snubbers are masking the problem, not fixing it.
I have asked Lenz, NCE, Digitrax and the UK's 'Model Electronics Railway Group' (MERG) about all of this in the past and they all confirmed what I have written above.
Cool job!:)
Thank you
Thanks for the advice. So - for example - If i have 3 train loops do I need a separate bus wire for each ? or could i run one bus wire underneath the centre loop and drop wires from each 3 loops to the single bus wire?
Yes you can use the same bus wire for all of the loops. There is a debate about whether you should connect the ends of the bus wire to form a complete loop, but I’ll let others fight that one out! 😂
@@BuntersYard what's your opinion on that mater i really don't know would i make a ring connection for bus wire or have ends lose
This was a new way of connecting the droppers to the bus wire, for me. Thank you for that! But, can I ask; if you are using two separate lengths of bus wires, how are they both connected to the controller? Thanks for any advice - I'm sure I'm missing something fairly basic.
So both rails on a track are separated, one rail has the red wire while the other has a black wire. Then both of those wires connect to the bus wires, same thing, red to red, black to black, that bus wire eventually connects to the DCC booster/command station via the 2 screw ports made for power to the layout. One wire to one connection, the other wire to the other connection. Keep in mind, both wires have to be connected the same way on each booster if there will be more than 1 booster on a layout.
Thanks for the question. Each bus wire goes into the back of the controller - red to red, and black to black. So then all of the red wires, including the droppers become positive (in my case), and all the black will be negative.
Interesting, video but the sound quality of the film was poor you do not need back ground music. Where did you buy the connectors from.
Possibly on this video the back ground music was n't needed.
The connectors are from DCC concepts
Gas soldiering irons are the future DB.
Your probably right mate!
Great Choice on the Railroad, but Terrible choice on the T-Shirt.
Ah fashion has never been my strong point ;)
Why two bus wires? Why not one in the middle and add the droppers to it