That sending off is all i could remember of that game. It was great to get a re-cap of what took place afterwards. Pretty much summed up the frustration of being a Wales rugby supporter. That Mike Phillips Try tho was just class, His confidence and swagger would always tickle me. Great video!
Thanks Damien 👍🏼 Yeah it was the same for me before making the video tbh but it was a kind of fun but heartbreaking endeavour 😂 and yeah Philips what the man. Loved his abrasiveness. They don’t make them like that anymore. 😂
Having a French father, Rolland should not have been officiating in the first place, due to a clear conflict of interest. However, even back then and on watching the incident replayed in the video today, to my mind the decision was correct. It was a dangerous tackle and the French player lands with his head and shoulders hitting the ground first. Had the situation been reversed, it would be interesting to hear the views of the commentators and the Welsh fans and I suspect many would have applauded a red card. Nowadays, that tackle would be a definite red card and the decision received without comment, as it should have been back then. It's very much to his credit that Sam Warburton has never complained about being sent off and neither should anyone else.
Ahh Christian. Its taken me all day to build up the courage to watch this video. I’ve barely watched any clips of it since I watched it live. It’s THAT traumatic for me 😢. It’s distanced myself so far from this game that I had no idea that we missed SOOOOO MANY kicks at goal. That’s brought on a new level of grief for me 🤣. Definitely wasn’t a red card but we did the typical Welsh thing and we defeated ourselves after that moment. It’s the Welsh way, unfortunately! That Welsh team sheet is *chef kiss* beautiful! I don’t think we will ever have a team like that ever again. This was our best opportunity for a World Cup title. I would give up ever 6N title for this one game because I believe we would’ve won the final. But it wasn’t to be. Special mention for Charteris. WHAT A PLAYER he was. Hugely underrated in wales. He’s the best lock we have ever produced in my opinion. He was a BEAST aswell. He looks quite lanky when he’s playing but he was actually super jacked. I remember reading something before about him being told to lose a couple of stone because he was like 21stone and people were struggling to lift him in the line outs. I’d pick him over AWJ anyday. Keep up the amazing work, bud! I really enjoy and appreciate your videos!
I really appreciate your support, mate #OG Yeah, it was an actually quite interesting process making this video. Similar to you, I put a lot of distance between me and it so watching it back and realising all the opportunities we had to win was actually heartbreaking because it ultimately was in our hands Yeah, Charteris has always been underrated for me. He just didn’t have the longevity. Also watching Ryan Jones in this match it’s easy to forget just how good he was. Hope you’re enjoying the new documentary style videos? I did actually look into James Hook, but there’s just not that much information out there about him and his career and he’s done no autobiography or anything so I have to see what happens with that one😬
The important context is - as you mentioned - this was before the focus of the world game came upon the "tip" tackle. In fact, this incident was the start of it as far as most fans and pundits were concerned. Looking at it in 2024 it's easy to say yes, that's clearly a red. Today there would be no argument. BUT in 2011 this came seemingly out of nowhere. As Warburton himself has said, he feels he HIMSELF made a worse tackle earlier in the tournament. A Bok player (pardon my not bothering to research who) got away with a worse one. There may well have been an internal directive to refs to clamp down, but they weren't doing it. Suddenly, in the semi-final, the laws effectively changed. Whatever your opinion on tip tackles now, or even in 2011, that's not acceptable. I can never forgive Rolland. But you're quite right to highlight the fact that Wales missed more points than France scored, and that at least was no-one else's fault.
Yeah, I think you’re spot-on with everything you said. Interestingly, I found a couple of examples of probably worst tackles from prior games in the tournament. But because I’m a moron, I forgot to edit them in at the end so that one’s on me 😂 But to your point we actually misses more than France scored. And when you put it into that context, there’s no one else to really blame but ourselves
Remember this well, 15 years old. Totally heartbroken after the naivety of youth made me truly truly believe it was our Year. My dad warned me not to get my hopes up before K.O as he's seen it all before....he was right...never quite let myself get wrapped up in hype since
Yeah, that’s totally fair. I was a few years older, and I still allowed myself to get wrapped up😂 It was a great time to be a fan of Welsh rugby. How times have changed😂
We were on our 4th fly half through injury, our kicker injured himself in the warmup and were ‘there for the taking’ as they say. To say Wales would have won is ridiculous. They might have won. There have been a lot of games Wales ‘should have won’ against the ABs., over the course of the 60 years or so between wins for the Welsh. There’s also the slight fact that the ABs hardly ever loose at Eden Park.
correct decision under the WR directive for that world cup, if legs go beyond horizontal and you lose control of the player "red card". if you stop video at 20.49 you will also see warburton ram the heel of his hand into the face of the stricken player, also show it in reel time it was dirty play, wales still had a chance to win
In fairness Wales still should have won you’re right. Warburton is not a dirty player though. That all happened so quick he probably was unsure of what happened until he was on the deck
As a Kiwi with enough half-Welsh kids to form a sevens team, I can still recall the massive disappointment in our house. I thought Wales had every chance of winning the final had they beaten France, and I can only imagine what an incredible boost it would have been for Welsh rugby if they'd taken the Cup home. It would have been huge. I'm not saying the ref was biased but I feel a yellow would have been the right call.
You’re right mate it would have been amazing. Unfortunately the WRU would have still got us into our current situation but at least we would have a WC medal 😂
The problem with the sending off, the way I see it is, that there was context applied in the decision making. Was there even a discussion taking place between Rolland and his other officials? However, like others have already mentioned, applying context and reviewing things properly is a modern refereeing system, and back then, I'm not sure what the protocol was. One thing is certain though, Clerk backs out as you rightly said because he was about to get marmalised by Warburton, and Sam probably underestimated how much of a lightweight Clerk was, and these two factors combined give us the end result. Sam though, in fairness, didn't do a Umanga and drill him into the ground head first, rather he lets go of him, and Clerk falls all of two feet onto his Wales, with 15 men on the pitch would have definitely won this game. What makes it even more agonising was that they should have still won it with 14! And how we couldn't have a neutral referee I just don't know. I also think Rolland had a bit of a reputation for trying to make some games about him, and this was certainly one of those games! Arrrrgh!!!
Yeah, he certainly made it about him Rob, because I’m still talking about it even to this day😂 Yeah, to your point clerk backing out of the tackle right at the end is certainly a factor to me although others in the comments don’t necessarily agree with me but that all happens so quick that Warburton has no time to adjust the force that he’s going with until it’s too late. I mean that’s the reason they have mitigated factors now with head contact to reduce cards from red to yellows 🤷🏻♂️
Kiwi here I was at the game, 100% agree the Welsh were robbed , I don’t have any connection with Wales and was very much a neutral spectator but I left the ground that night feeling I had witnessed a massive injustice.
Thanks Paul, amazing you got to witness such a great game but it is good to hear an neutral perspective that it’s not just Welsh fans who think that this was wrong 😂 Cheers 🇳🇿
There had been an edict laid down by WR before this tournament that those tackles were to he punished by a red card. However, no one had been. Warburton says in his book that he was expecting a yellow. Having said that, I do agree that Roland should have taken a breath.
Yeah I take your point. After the game they were looking at other tackles that happened in the previous pool games and some were worse (I forgot to put them in at the end 😬😂) There was even one on Clerk ironically against Tonga which looked worse 🤷🏻♂️
@@TheWelshSportsPodcast The worst one was on Pat Lambie. The Fijian was shown a yellow card, while the referee was sent home as a result of his failure to give a red card. All the remaining teams were reminded that spear tackles would be red cards. Kingsley Jones said that Russia received three warnings during the pool stages and it's believed that the semi-finalists had 6 warnings about spear tackles. So it was always going to be a red card. Correct decision, made tough to take as the others that weren't given. Kingsley Jones was commentating and said he thought it was a red card. Maybe you need to give both sides of the story.
@@TheWelshSportsPodcast I genuinely considered trying to get the All Blacks to agree to a one off game against Wales immediately after the RWC to see if we coil have done it 🤣. I think we could have cos no one would have expected us to, there would have been less pressure on us.
At the time it was maybe on the border of yellow and red. Red was in line with the laws at that time. Harsh, annoying, but really couldn’t argue. Sam Wharberton let the ref get involved and it worked out very badly. Now if it were a 20 minute red card that would be better.
Hi Christian, Thanks for giving me that nightmare again. Saying that to finish one point down with a man less and to play like that for a hour is a good loss. But not this game like you said a chance to get to the final and yes it was New Zealand and the way they played this was a good chance to beat New Zealand as they were just lucky in this world cup and a possible the first win since Ken Jones winning try in 1953. My thoughts, should it be a red card, No a yellow Yes or penalty was the player injured No did he carry on playing Yes. it should have been red if that player was injured and taken of the pitch. Was the ref in favour of France, Yes and why was Alain Rolland the ref of this game being Irish/French, we should have had our Nigel reffing the game ( if only ) so why Alain Rolland, should have been some one neutral my be Steve Walsh or Wayne Barnes or any one. At the end the best Welsh team lost to a Bad full squad French team, France were a poor team they were lucky to win against a 14 man Wales team. This day we were robed and also the game of rugby was robed. But revenge was sweet in the next 6N when we be the French, that was heaven. To me winning the world cup is every thing but our main turnement is the 6N. I'm i biased to Alian Rolland yes , I am a Welshman Good to hear from you catch you soon, Take care mate
Yeah making this video was a kind of love hate process. Great watching back some of those quality players that we used to have If it was this day and age it’s obvs a stonewall red card but back then it was different and like you said Rolland never should have been reffing that game but 🤷🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️ there we are Always good to hear from you pal. Stay well 🤙🏼🤙🏼🏴
I guess you would have to say 2015 due to the squad being more experienced. But the situation 2011 had was better with other teams not being their best I think p
2011 for me. Has there been a TH as good as AJ since? And while there were a couple of great wings in '15 have to say Shane W had the x-factor. Marginal though. The WC where Wales really missed an opportunity was 2007. The England team that made the final was pretty mediocre (& no it wasn't a try in the final). Doubt Wales would've beaten SA but might have pushed them beyond 2nd gear! That team had played some fantastic fast paced rugby in '05 & could've gone far in that tournament but classic case of the Welsh rugby roller coaster. You hear stories as to what went wrong but only a few really know & doubt they'll talk
One of the more annoying things about it is we can't really say the ref was entirely wrong. That directive was in place and I'm pretty sure there had been citings after some similar tackles. Obviously it was the only one that got a red on the field in the tournament so it would have been consistent with the rest of the tournament if he'd got away with it on the day and then a toss up as to whether he missed the next match. So we could feel the ref was grandstanding a bit or we could defend him and say why should he give a decision that will quite likely be overturned by the citing hearing. I kind of think there might have been an element of both to be honest. We still could/should have won and were horribly unlucky that day however you look at it. I've always thought priestland got his injury right at the end of the Ireland game and gats might regret not having taken him off with the game already won though it might be that he got it sooner and played on with it, not entirely sure. I don't think we would have won the final which would presumably have been without Adam, priestland and warburton (quite likely even if he didn't get red on the day in the semi). Kind of think nz 'know' they're going to beat us and might not have put in such a stinker. Also there were some good performances from France in that final especially dusautoir.
Yeah I guess in isolation the decision is correct but when you take into account as you said the similar tackles that weren’t punished in previous matches stings a bit more
I remember the incident very well. I thought it was red the first time I saw it, I thought it was red each time a different angle was shown. Where the controversy arises is that the commentators, in complete ignorance of the laws of the game in 2011, threw Rolland under the bus. And in 2024 there are still a load of people on that very same bus, in continued ignorant denial. And to the fella that narrated the video, the French lad came down on the back of his head. Look at the footage at 5m52/5m53. His HEAD. Jesus wept, get over it. It was a RED!
I believe Warburton has since agreed with the ref it was the correct call. Regardless, wales played excellently and missed multiple kicks that would have won them the game. Though they were at a disadvantage they had their opportunities and they missed the kicks.
@TheWelshSportsPodcast I do think they can get to the knockout stages. At that point, it can be potluck on who you get. Who is not injured and general fitness and fatigue.
Within 5 seconds of watching this video Christian, We we’re robbed, Sams tackle (not Willy )was 👌 , I was jumping up and down grinning ear to ear ,until the the half French ref did the un thinkable, I honestly think we would have been 2011 🌍 Champions 🏴👌👍🏻👍🏻
Its a huge call that Wales would of gone on to beat one of the best NZ sides of all time at a venue NZ havent lost at since 1994 and the last time Wales beat NZ Elizabeth II was about to be crowned . The carding of the Welsh captain was a tragedy though and rugby fans everywhere were gutted for the Welsh that happened. NZ fans after the last RWC final can certainly sympathise. Given the how tough Refs were on tip tackle . It was definitely a yellow card but very questionable red. Nowadays it would be in the hands of the off field judiciary whether it deserved upgrading which is a much fairer system.
I’m English, remember it vividly. It looks bad by today’s standards but back in 2011 that was no way a red card. I remember instantly saying to my dad that it was a penalty, being surprised that he was going to the bin for it, and then dumbfounded when we realised it was a red.
As an Ireland fan I thought wales would win this World Cup when carter went down injured for nz. Back in 2011 those tackles were literally never even given as penalties never mind red cards .
Yeah agreed mate. They showed a few similar tackles from the group stages at the end of the broadcast and most were the same of worse than this one 🤷🏻♂️
Even Warby thinks it was the RIGHT decision.Personaly I think if Mike Philips hadnt floped over the try line grinning with his tounge out and done the pro thing and made another 5yrds inside before grounding the ball Jones would have easily nnailed the conversion.As it was he hit the post
Refs in both Rugby and Football should be instructed to never dish out any red cards in knockout games unless there is 100% no doubt with both the ref and TMO/VAR team that it is a red card offence and only if there is evidence of genuine intent by the offender to injure or cheat. Why ruin contests on technicality? The sport is as much for the fans as it is for the players, it's not about the "ref show".
If you remember the back page of most newspaper’s had a quarter page advert from Paddy power Saying they have refunded 600 thousand bets placed on 🏴 Because we were Robbed 🙁🏴😘
Thought the pre world cup directives to referees was for tip tackles, start at red and work down! Personally at time I thought it was no more than a yellow although nowadays it's a certain red! Yes roland definitely tried to make up for the error with the late penalty, although we could and should of won the game b4 that with missed kicks (I know if one of those kicks had gone over it's a different game from then on mind) definitely think NZ were there for the taking that WC and it was probably our best ever chance of winning it!
Yeah back then it was not a red. Similar tackles in the tournament went completely unpunished so for this to be a straight red was a bit shocking really 😬
Irish ref. Ireland thought they had a right beat Wales. Wales swept them aside. That would have effected Roland, even if it was by just 1%, that proved enough.
That doesn’t make sense because Roland made multiple calls that cost Ireland a six nations when he reffed French games in the 2000’s and it went down to points difference. There was 3/4 games he reffed that he let France away with murder, he’s half French after all.
Did once read that there x17 similar tackles in that WC & that was the only one that resulted in a red card. Not checked if that is true (the source may have been a little bias!). Ultimately it's rugby & I was always taught the ref is right ... even when they're wrong. Rolland should never have been put in that position by the organisers in the first place. Unfortunately his integrity will always come under question by some which is unfair. Incredibly disappointing day for Welsh fans. That team would have been worthy finalists at the very least. If there's a silver lining it's that a Welsh team of x14 players went head-to-head with France for most of the game and nearly won - twenty years after watching us get battered by Western Samoa showed just how far Wales had come. Sad outcome but, as ever, proud of the boys
Yeh annoyingly I think you’re right. I had an example of a few similar tackles I meant to put in the video at the end but I forgot because I’m a moron 😬 One was even on Clerk against Tonga ironically but yeah they made us all very proud. What a group of players 🏴
It was clearly just a yellow card under the rules of the time , no malice very little danger. All I will say is we had just knocked Ireland out the week before and playing France so they give us a half Irish half French ref........I mean seriously.
Can’t be having a nation with only 3 million winning a World Cup can we? You cannot sell Wales to America can you?! You can with England, France, Ireland, SA, NZ, and AUS
I was there and it was tight. Couldn’t have argued if France had been awarded a couple of very kickable penalties. France deserved to win the final, the All Blacks deserved to win the World Cup.
Clear tip from Warburton and he looked like a man possessed in that game so for me not surprising he'd do something rash. Still, for that time, red was clearly harsh. I wouldn't call it a conspiracy to suggest that referee's decisions are affected by earlier decisions during the same game, especially if they were 'bad' decisions. At this point it's an open secret (some refs have even articulated it in the prem for example) that referees ref with positive bias teams that are miles behind on the scoreboard, and other examples of referee's 'managing' the strictness of the application/interpretation of the rules abound. If WR/unions had a problem with the lack of objectivity with which officials apply the rules, they would also have made them tighter, more rigourously defined, more objective, and would have made at least some minimal attempt to eliminate the vast grey areas in the game which provide space for subjectivity / bias to play out.
Very concise comment Dale 👌🏼 Interesting thought on Warburton looking like he was going to do something crazy. Really in interesting point on the way things get reffed. I can understand the ref trying level things out but doesn’t make it right to me. In fairness though worth saying that refereeing is such a difficult job and I certainly wouldn’t do it and we need them to be able to play our great game. It’s just a shame it cost us so dearly with this one 😬
@@TheWelshSportsPodcast Whole can of worms once imparciality is negociable in principle, or there's consistent (defacto) bias for/against certain teams, which I think there clearly is now, so I don't agree with it either, but sports at the elite level being what it is I'm long past expecting these things from rugby or other top tier sports personally. Would you say Wales get fair dealings in World Cups generally?
I am similarly scarred by this day. I actually missed that it was a red because i was too busy sounding off about what i assumed was going to be a yellow! I thought that would have been bad enough for what i saw as a textbook dominant tackle. When i & the other 4 welshmen in the room with me realised it was a red it was like we'd just witnessed a plane crash. Complete & utter shock! Turning to absolutely rage seconds later! I'm not sure i nor welsh rugby ever fully recovered from that. Alain rolland is & always will be a...[WORDS REMOVED TO UPHOLD COMMON DECENCY]...for that decision! Unforgiveable! Cheers WSP, although i could have done without being reminded of this day, ha haaa.
Was definitely a red card. We still had chances to win with 14 men vs france. I think nz would have battered us in the final tho. Game plan is similar jus nz we're alot better at it especially between 2010 n 2015 My issue was always Allan rolland, he is half French. It dnt make sense how he can officiate a game he has family links to. Its like the government investigating themselves n finding no wrong doing 🤷♂️
A big call to say you probably would've beaten NZ when you haven't done it since the 50s Wales would have that pressure on them try getting a red card in the final that's worse
Yes Wales were robbed. Of their captain for about 60 minutes of the most important game of that generation by a French / Irish referee who thought the game was more about him than the teams taking part. Even down to 14 men, Wales only just lost suggesting that with a full side, they probably would have won and gone on into their first WC final. Whether they would have won that is debatable, but it’s possible. At that time, Wales had a young side, brimming with confidence and playing superb exuberant rugby - definitely possible.
@@MrSillyFun the guidelines said that a play lifted past horizontal and dropped was a red card. It was controversial because lots of spectators (and commentators and pundits) didn’t know that.
A penalty, yes. A yellow, possibly. A red? Absolutely no way. And I'm English. Alain Rolland should never have been allowed to referee a game involving France, given his French parentage.
No, Wales were not robbed. The IRB Spear Tackle Memorandum was published on June 8th, 2009, over two years before the 2011 RWC. It was sent to ALL Rugby Unions in the world, and ALL elite level referees world wide. Several players had been red carded and suspended for spear tackles in the years leading up to 2011. I am quoting directly from the IRB Spear Tackle Memorandum here; _"1. The player is lifted and then forced or “speared” into the ground. A red card should be issued for this type of tackle, or"_ _"2. The lifted player is dropped to the ground from a height with no regard to the player’s safety. A red card should be issued for this type of tackle."_ Every single elite player in the world KNEW that if they executed a spear tackle, then they could expect to be sent off. Sam Warburton lifted Vincent Clerc, turned him over and dropped him on his head. No-one other than the most one-eyed Welsh fan would see that as anything other than a straight up red card offense - if Thierry Dusautoir had done that to Shane Williams, every Welsh fan would be screaming red card from the rooftops. No, Sam ought to have have known better - he was a fool and he let his team down. And I can't believe you Welsh fans are still bleating about this 13 years later. C'mon you Taffies, you weren't robbed, and you know it. You're all better than this!
@TheWelshSportsPodcast I think there's not a word in the English language that reflects how certain we should be that it couldn't happen. Impossible doesn't seem nearly strong enough!
You are having a laugh mate. Red card, all day every day. Never a huge fan of Rolland but he got that spot on. If the tackle had been made by a French player on a Welsh player you would have been shouting for a red card.
As a ref myself, I completely agree with the red card decision. In my view, the tackle is reckless and is foul play and is therefore a minimum of a yellow card, then the french player lands dangerously because of the actions of Sam. I also think the arguments given that it isn’t the tacklers fault and the mitigating factor are ‘grasping at straws’ , in particular where you mentioned how the French player slowed down into the tackle. Also, I didn’t like the not so subtle reference to the refs half French nationality, suggesting bias, which I think is completely unfounded, and where you speculated that the ref was making up for his ‘poor’ decision. You have to remember that the ref only has one chance to see the collision and you mentioned how it looked bad at first sight which is all the ref would have had. Also, the fact it is in the first 20 mins of a World Cup semi final should not impact the decision at all as that is a Pandora’s box no one wants to open. Other than that, I agree that wales should have won regardless, and that they most likely would have beaten NZ in the final.
That’s fair. You have a better understanding of the laws than me. I do think the slowing down like he did is a mitigating factor in my opinion. That all happens at full speed and he has very little time to react, he probably didn’t even realise he had his legs in the air before Clerk was on the ground🤷🏻♂️ When it comes to the nationality I think it’s fair to point out the conflict of interest. Thanks for sharing your insight as a ref though. Very interesting to read👍🏼
All these years later i still cant watch any.part of that game cos its way to painful.. france were 100% there for the taking by wales before Warburton red card.. even down to 14 men for most of game Wales still couldhave won with last minute halfpenny penalty who was as reliable as wednesday following tuesday but slipped just as he kicked ball which took just a fraction off distance to win game ... one of the most painful losses ive ever had watching wales
Yes I’ve been the same. I’ve never really revisited this out of pure heartache and watching back the amount of opportunities we missed at goal really didn’t do much to make me feel better.😂 I did feel proud of the team though The Boys really put a massive performance in and they deserve so much more 🏴
I think the use of the TMO has benefitted Wales more than any other country. Before, we used to get hammered by referees. Games against England especially at Twickenham were just a joke - refs used to sh*t themselves. I remember on Scrum V a Statistics PhD came on and proved that over 80% of all decisions went the home side's way.
Really? That’s a mental stat. I think when I look back Wales have been on the end of some howlers though. The Chris White one against Italy will forever live on in my brain. That was mental
@@TheWelshSportsPodcast A more recent one was the disallowed try by Gareth Anscombe at Twickers. The first time the RFU had to apologise for the TMO decision. Gatts wasn't happy!
Supporters go on about not beating NZ but if you revisit the videos we were done a few times. The worst was the 1963 game - the English ref was just bent.
I'm fairly sure the instructions to referees pre world cup was tip tackles, start at red then work down! Not Mr Roland Tho, always a yellow not red tho! As for last chance penalty, Roland was definitely trying to even things up! Also agree it was our best chance to win the world cup and like you I firmly believe we would of!!🏉🏉🏴🏴
That sending off is all i could remember of that game. It was great to get a re-cap of what took place afterwards. Pretty much summed up the frustration of being a Wales rugby supporter. That Mike Phillips Try tho was just class, His confidence and swagger would always tickle me. Great video!
Thanks Damien 👍🏼
Yeah it was the same for me before making the video tbh but it was a kind of fun but heartbreaking endeavour 😂 and yeah Philips what the man. Loved his abrasiveness. They don’t make them like that anymore. 😂
Having a French father, Rolland should not have been officiating in the first place, due to a clear conflict of interest.
However, even back then and on watching the incident replayed in the video today, to my mind the decision was correct. It was a dangerous tackle and the French player lands with his head and shoulders hitting the ground first. Had the situation been reversed, it would be interesting to hear the views of the commentators and the Welsh fans and I suspect many would have applauded a red card.
Nowadays, that tackle would be a definite red card and the decision received without comment, as it should have been back then.
It's very much to his credit that Sam Warburton has never complained about being sent off and neither should anyone else.
Completely fair and well said comment 👏🏼
Ahh Christian. Its taken me all day to build up the courage to watch this video. I’ve barely watched any clips of it since I watched it live. It’s THAT traumatic for me 😢.
It’s distanced myself so far from this game that I had no idea that we missed SOOOOO MANY kicks at goal. That’s brought on a new level of grief for me 🤣.
Definitely wasn’t a red card but we did the typical Welsh thing and we defeated ourselves after that moment. It’s the Welsh way, unfortunately!
That Welsh team sheet is *chef kiss* beautiful! I don’t think we will ever have a team like that ever again. This was our best opportunity for a World Cup title. I would give up ever 6N title for this one game because I believe we would’ve won the final. But it wasn’t to be. Special mention for Charteris. WHAT A PLAYER he was. Hugely underrated in wales. He’s the best lock we have ever produced in my opinion. He was a BEAST aswell. He looks quite lanky when he’s playing but he was actually super jacked. I remember reading something before about him being told to lose a couple of stone because he was like 21stone and people were struggling to lift him in the line outs. I’d pick him over AWJ anyday.
Keep up the amazing work, bud! I really enjoy and appreciate your videos!
I really appreciate your support, mate #OG
Yeah, it was an actually quite interesting process making this video. Similar to you, I put a lot of distance between me and it so watching it back and realising all the opportunities we had to win was actually heartbreaking because it ultimately was in our hands
Yeah, Charteris has always been underrated for me. He just didn’t have the longevity. Also watching Ryan Jones in this match it’s easy to forget just how good he was.
Hope you’re enjoying the new documentary style videos? I did actually look into James Hook, but there’s just not that much information out there about him and his career and he’s done no autobiography or anything so I have to see what happens with that one😬
The important context is - as you mentioned - this was before the focus of the world game came upon the "tip" tackle. In fact, this incident was the start of it as far as most fans and pundits were concerned.
Looking at it in 2024 it's easy to say yes, that's clearly a red. Today there would be no argument. BUT in 2011 this came seemingly out of nowhere. As Warburton himself has said, he feels he HIMSELF made a worse tackle earlier in the tournament. A Bok player (pardon my not bothering to research who) got away with a worse one. There may well have been an internal directive to refs to clamp down, but they weren't doing it. Suddenly, in the semi-final, the laws effectively changed. Whatever your opinion on tip tackles now, or even in 2011, that's not acceptable.
I can never forgive Rolland. But you're quite right to highlight the fact that Wales missed more points than France scored, and that at least was no-one else's fault.
Yeah, I think you’re spot-on with
everything you said. Interestingly, I found a couple of examples of probably worst tackles from prior games in the tournament. But because I’m a moron, I forgot to edit them in at the end so that one’s on me 😂
But to your point we actually misses more than France scored. And when you put it into that context, there’s no one else to really blame but ourselves
Remember this well, 15 years old. Totally heartbroken after the naivety of youth made me truly truly believe it was our Year. My dad warned me not to get my hopes up before K.O as he's seen it all before....he was right...never quite let myself get wrapped up in hype since
Yeah, that’s totally fair. I was a few years older, and I still allowed myself to get wrapped up😂 It was a great time to be a fan of Welsh rugby. How times have changed😂
Totally agree with you. NZ was under incredible pressure from local expectations and would have lost.
Yeah agreed. They just were not there usual self and I think anyone bar France in that final might have beaten them 🤷🏻♂️
We were on our 4th fly half through injury, our kicker injured himself in the warmup and were ‘there for the taking’ as they say.
To say Wales would have won is ridiculous. They might have won. There have been a lot of games Wales ‘should have won’ against the ABs., over the course of the 60 years or so between wins for the Welsh. There’s also the slight fact that the ABs hardly ever loose at Eden Park.
correct decision under the WR directive for that world cup, if legs go beyond horizontal and you lose control of the player "red card". if you stop video at 20.49 you will also see warburton ram the heel of his hand into the face of the stricken player, also show it in reel time it was dirty play, wales still had a chance to win
In fairness Wales still should have won you’re right. Warburton is not a dirty player though. That all happened so quick he probably was unsure of what happened until he was on the deck
@@TheWelshSportsPodcastthere were some daft comments from the commentators about the referee ‘ruining the game’. San Wharberton ruined the game,
As a Kiwi with enough half-Welsh kids to form a sevens team, I can still recall the massive disappointment in our house. I thought Wales had every chance of winning the final had they beaten France, and I can only imagine what an incredible boost it would have been for Welsh rugby if they'd taken the Cup home. It would have been huge. I'm not saying the ref was biased but I feel a yellow would have been the right call.
You’re right mate it would have been amazing. Unfortunately the WRU would have still got us into our current situation but at least we would have a WC medal 😂
The problem with the sending off, the way I see it is, that there was context applied in the decision making. Was there even a discussion taking place between Rolland and his other officials? However, like others have already mentioned, applying context and reviewing things properly is a modern refereeing system, and back then, I'm not sure what the protocol was. One thing is certain though, Clerk backs out as you rightly said because he was about to get marmalised by Warburton, and Sam probably underestimated how much of a lightweight Clerk was, and these two factors combined give us the end result. Sam though, in fairness, didn't do a Umanga and drill him into the ground head first, rather he lets go of him, and Clerk falls all of two feet onto his
Wales, with 15 men on the pitch would have definitely won this game. What makes it even more agonising was that they should have still won it with 14!
And how we couldn't have a neutral referee I just don't know. I also think Rolland had a bit of a reputation for trying to make some games about him, and this was certainly one of those games!
Arrrrgh!!!
Yeah, he certainly made it about him Rob, because I’m still talking about it even to this day😂
Yeah, to your point clerk backing out of the tackle right at the end is certainly a factor to me although others in the comments don’t necessarily agree with me but that all happens so quick that Warburton has no time to adjust the force that he’s going with until it’s too late. I mean that’s the reason they have mitigated factors now with head contact to reduce cards from red to yellows 🤷🏻♂️
Kiwi here I was at the game, 100% agree the Welsh were robbed , I don’t have any connection with Wales and was very much a neutral spectator but I left the ground that night feeling I had witnessed a massive injustice.
Thanks Paul, amazing you got to witness such a great game but it is good to hear an neutral perspective that it’s not just Welsh fans who think that this was wrong 😂 Cheers 🇳🇿
There had been an edict laid down by WR before this tournament that those tackles were to he punished by a red card. However, no one had been. Warburton says in his book that he was expecting a yellow.
Having said that, I do agree that Roland should have taken a breath.
Yeah I take your point. After the game they were looking at other tackles that happened in the previous pool games and some were worse (I forgot to put them in at the end 😬😂)
There was even one on Clerk ironically against Tonga which looked worse 🤷🏻♂️
@@TheWelshSportsPodcast The worst one was on Pat Lambie. The Fijian was shown a yellow card, while the referee was sent home as a result of his failure to give a red card. All the remaining teams were reminded that spear tackles would be red cards. Kingsley Jones said that Russia received three warnings during the pool stages and it's believed that the semi-finalists had 6 warnings about spear tackles. So it was always going to be a red card. Correct decision, made tough to take as the others that weren't given. Kingsley Jones was commentating and said he thought it was a red card. Maybe you need to give both sides of the story.
I was there boys! In the stadium. Actual tears 😢. We should totally have won that.
Wow. I bet that is an experience you will never forget 😬
@@TheWelshSportsPodcast I genuinely considered trying to get the All Blacks to agree to a one off game against Wales immediately after the RWC to see if we coil have done it 🤣. I think we could have cos no one would have expected us to, there would have been less pressure on us.
For the time, it was a terrible decision.
Automatic red these days of course.
I’m English, and I think it was a terrible decision for rugby.
Yeah agreed completely mate
At the time it was maybe on the border of yellow and red. Red was in line with the laws at that time. Harsh, annoying, but really couldn’t argue.
Sam Wharberton let the ref get involved and it worked out very badly.
Now if it were a 20 minute red card that would be better.
Breaks my heart to say it but if we had Martin Johnson (Eng) as captain at this moment, we would of won the game 13:30.
Ambell waith ti'n ennill, ambell waith ti'n golli..... roedd e'n poenu, ond mae rygbi hwn.
Still in brifo 🥹
Hi Christian, Thanks for giving me that nightmare again. Saying that to finish one point down with a man less and to play like that for a hour is a good loss. But not this game like you said a chance to get to the final and yes it was New Zealand and the way they played this was a good chance to beat New Zealand as they were just lucky in this world cup and a possible the first win since Ken Jones winning try in 1953.
My thoughts, should it be a red card, No a yellow Yes or penalty was the player injured No did he carry on playing Yes. it should have been red if that player was injured and taken of the pitch. Was the ref in favour of France, Yes and why was Alain Rolland the ref of this game being Irish/French, we should have had our Nigel reffing the game ( if only ) so why Alain Rolland, should have been some one neutral my be Steve Walsh or Wayne Barnes or any one. At the end the best Welsh team lost to a Bad full squad French team, France were a poor team they were lucky to win against a 14 man Wales team.
This day we were robed and also the game of rugby was robed. But revenge was sweet in the next 6N when we be the French, that was heaven. To me winning the world cup is every thing but our main turnement is the 6N. I'm i biased to Alian Rolland yes , I am a Welshman Good to hear from you catch you soon, Take care mate
Yeah making this video was a kind of love hate process. Great watching back some of those quality players that we used to have
If it was this day and age it’s obvs a stonewall red card but back then it was different and like you said Rolland never should have been reffing that game but 🤷🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️ there we are
Always good to hear from you pal. Stay well 🤙🏼🤙🏼🏴
Good debating topic 2011 Vs 2015 which was the better team.
I guess you would have to say 2015 due to the squad being more experienced. But the situation 2011 had was better with other teams not being their best I think p
2011 for me. Has there been a TH as good as AJ since? And while there were a couple of great wings in '15 have to say Shane W had the x-factor. Marginal though. The WC where Wales really missed an opportunity was 2007. The England team that made the final was pretty mediocre (& no it wasn't a try in the final). Doubt Wales would've beaten SA but might have pushed them beyond 2nd gear! That team had played some fantastic fast paced rugby in '05 & could've gone far in that tournament but classic case of the Welsh rugby roller coaster. You hear stories as to what went wrong but only a few really know & doubt they'll talk
One of the more annoying things about it is we can't really say the ref was entirely wrong. That directive was in place and I'm pretty sure there had been citings after some similar tackles. Obviously it was the only one that got a red on the field in the tournament so it would have been consistent with the rest of the tournament if he'd got away with it on the day and then a toss up as to whether he missed the next match. So we could feel the ref was grandstanding a bit or we could defend him and say why should he give a decision that will quite likely be overturned by the citing hearing. I kind of think there might have been an element of both to be honest.
We still could/should have won and were horribly unlucky that day however you look at it. I've always thought priestland got his injury right at the end of the Ireland game and gats might regret not having taken him off with the game already won though it might be that he got it sooner and played on with it, not entirely sure. I don't think we would have won the final which would presumably have been without Adam, priestland and warburton (quite likely even if he didn't get red on the day in the semi). Kind of think nz 'know' they're going to beat us and might not have put in such a stinker. Also there were some good performances from France in that final especially dusautoir.
Yeah I guess in isolation the decision is correct but when you take into account as you said the similar tackles that weren’t punished in previous matches stings a bit more
I remember the incident very well. I thought it was red the first time I saw it, I thought it was red each time a different angle was shown. Where the controversy arises is that the commentators, in complete ignorance of the laws of the game in 2011, threw Rolland under the bus. And in 2024 there are still a load of people on that very same bus, in continued ignorant denial. And to the fella that narrated the video, the French lad came down on the back of his head. Look at the footage at 5m52/5m53. His HEAD. Jesus wept, get over it. It was a RED!
Thanks for watching
I believe Warburton has since agreed with the ref it was the correct call. Regardless, wales played excellently and missed multiple kicks that would have won them the game. Though they were at a disadvantage they had their opportunities and they missed the kicks.
Yeah exactly. Their fate was 100% in their hands. Just shows the heart and ability of that group of players
I think Wales could stand a chance next World Cup in spite of this year's 6N's.
I am holding breath to what happens between now and the next 6N's.
They have a very young team so who knows what might happen over the next couple of years. Love the optimism 🏴👌🏼
@TheWelshSportsPodcast I do think they can get to the knockout stages. At that point, it can be potluck on who you get. Who is not injured and general fitness and fatigue.
Yeah exactly like this year we should have beaten the Pumas but with half fit Biggar no Toby we just didn’t have enough to get to the next round
Within 5 seconds of watching this video Christian, We we’re robbed, Sams tackle (not Willy )was 👌 , I was jumping up and down grinning ear to ear ,until the the half French ref did the un thinkable, I honestly think we would have been 2011 🌍 Champions 🏴👌👍🏻👍🏻
Glad we’re on the same page Ton🏴👌🏼
Such a shame for Wales but who knows. We may yet come again soon 😬🙏🏼
Yes Wales where robbed. They could and would have won the world Cup. Welsh and proud
Yes Paul! ✊🏼🏴
Sorry lads. You weren’t going to beat that NZ side in 2011. And still haven’t.
A big call when you haven't beaten NZ since the 50s Wales would have that pressure on them plus NZ have been there before Wales havent
@@Trajan2401 nothing wrong with being optimistic, and momentum was going well
Its a huge call that Wales would of gone on to beat one of the best NZ sides of all time at a venue NZ havent lost at since 1994 and the last time Wales beat NZ Elizabeth II was about to be crowned . The carding of the Welsh captain was a tragedy though and rugby fans everywhere were gutted for the Welsh that happened. NZ fans after the last RWC final can certainly sympathise.
Given the how tough Refs were on tip tackle . It was definitely a yellow card but very questionable red. Nowadays it would be in the hands of the off field judiciary whether it deserved upgrading which is a much fairer system.
I’m English, remember it vividly. It looks bad by today’s standards but back in 2011 that was no way a red card. I remember instantly saying to my dad that it was a penalty, being surprised that he was going to the bin for it, and then dumbfounded when we realised it was a red.
Yeah agreed. It made it worse that throughout the tournament tackles like this had gone unpunished completely🤷🏻♂️
There are a few countries who think they were subject to the ‘worst’ or ‘most controversial ‘ decision. Ask the Scots about that.
Just quoting the what Nick Mullins says on commentary
I was so glad when nz beat France in the final i remember that day
Yeah same 😂
The same conditions for both teams
As an Ireland fan I thought wales would win this World Cup when carter went down injured for nz.
Back in 2011 those tackles were literally never even given as penalties never mind red cards .
Yeah agreed mate. They showed a few similar tackles from the group stages at the end of the broadcast and most were the same of worse than this one 🤷🏻♂️
Even Warby thinks it was the RIGHT decision.Personaly I think if Mike Philips hadnt floped over the try line grinning with his tounge out and done the pro thing and made another 5yrds inside before grounding the ball Jones would have easily nnailed the conversion.As it was he hit the post
Yeah you could be right with that one. A kicker of his standard should still be making that one but I take your point 👍🏼
I think a lot of games are fixed. I think it will all come out one day.
👀👀👀
Refs in both Rugby and Football should be instructed to never dish out any red cards in knockout games unless there is 100% no doubt with both the ref and TMO/VAR team that it is a red card offence and only if there is evidence of genuine intent by the offender to injure or cheat. Why ruin contests on technicality? The sport is as much for the fans as it is for the players, it's not about the "ref show".
Yes I does seam a bit rash. He doesn’t really give himself any time to come to the decision he just shows the red and gets on with the game 😬
If you remember the back page of most newspaper’s had a quarter page advert from Paddy power Saying they have refunded 600 thousand bets placed on 🏴 Because we were Robbed 🙁🏴😘
Ha ha nah I can’t remember that. That’s absolutely mental when you think of it 😂
Thought the pre world cup directives to referees was for tip tackles, start at red and work down! Personally at time I thought it was no more than a yellow although nowadays it's a certain red! Yes roland definitely tried to make up for the error with the late penalty, although we could and should of won the game b4 that with missed kicks (I know if one of those kicks had gone over it's a different game from then on mind) definitely think NZ were there for the taking that WC and it was probably our best ever chance of winning it!
Yeah back then it was not a red. Similar tackles in the tournament went completely unpunished so for this to be a straight red was a bit shocking really 😬
Irish ref. Ireland thought they had a right beat Wales. Wales swept them aside. That would have effected Roland, even if it was by just 1%, that proved enough.
Yeah could be right. It’s all a bit fishy to me 😂
That doesn’t make sense because Roland made multiple calls that cost Ireland a six nations when he reffed French games in the 2000’s and it went down to points difference.
There was 3/4 games he reffed that he let France away with murder, he’s half French after all.
AH Monsieur Alain Rolland, je me souviens de Irishman !
😂👏🏼
One can't wear a red jersey and expect a yellow card... Anyway, Wales was avenged 8 years later thanks to Vahamaina's elbow.
Yes very true. Poor Wainwright 😂
Did once read that there x17 similar tackles in that WC & that was the only one that resulted in a red card. Not checked if that is true (the source may have been a little bias!). Ultimately it's rugby & I was always taught the ref is right ... even when they're wrong. Rolland should never have been put in that position by the organisers in the first place. Unfortunately his integrity will always come under question by some which is unfair.
Incredibly disappointing day for Welsh fans. That team would have been worthy finalists at the very least. If there's a silver lining it's that a Welsh team of x14 players went head-to-head with France for most of the game and nearly won - twenty years after watching us get battered by Western Samoa showed just how far Wales had come. Sad outcome but, as ever, proud of the boys
Yeh annoyingly I think you’re right. I had an example of a few similar tackles I meant to put in the video at the end but I forgot because I’m a moron 😬
One was even on Clerk against Tonga ironically but yeah they made us all very proud. What a group of players 🏴
England were in 2021 with the time off try in the six nations. We were told to shut up and get over it
Same as Ireland were when Wales beat them with an illegal try during the 2011 Six Nations.
It was clearly just a yellow card under the rules of the time , no malice very little danger. All I will say is we had just knocked Ireland out the week before and playing France so they give us a half Irish half French ref........I mean seriously.
Yeah it’s a bit silly isn’t it I mean there is a clear conflict of interest 🤷🏻♂️
And cheated Ireland out of the Six Nations game that year. Justice prevailed
Can’t be having a nation with only 3 million winning a World Cup can we? You cannot sell Wales to America can you?! You can with England, France, Ireland, SA, NZ, and AUS
😬😬😬
Sadly he landed on his neck and the back of his head.
And then France were robbed in the final
I was there and it was tight. Couldn’t have argued if France had been awarded a couple of very kickable penalties.
France deserved to win the final, the All Blacks deserved to win the World Cup.
Clear tip from Warburton and he looked like a man possessed in that game so for me not surprising he'd do something rash. Still, for that time, red was clearly harsh. I wouldn't call it a conspiracy to suggest that referee's decisions are affected by earlier decisions during the same game, especially if they were 'bad' decisions. At this point it's an open secret (some refs have even articulated it in the prem for example) that referees ref with positive bias teams that are miles behind on the scoreboard, and other examples of referee's 'managing' the strictness of the application/interpretation of the rules abound. If WR/unions had a problem with the lack of objectivity with which officials apply the rules, they would also have made them tighter, more rigourously defined, more objective, and would have made at least some minimal attempt to eliminate the vast grey areas in the game which provide space for subjectivity / bias to play out.
Very concise comment Dale 👌🏼
Interesting thought on Warburton looking like he was going to do something crazy. Really in interesting point on the way things get reffed. I can understand the ref trying level things out but doesn’t make it right to me.
In fairness though worth saying that refereeing is such a difficult job and I certainly wouldn’t do it and we need them to be able to play our great game. It’s just a shame it cost us so dearly with this one 😬
@@TheWelshSportsPodcast Whole can of worms once imparciality is negociable in principle, or there's consistent (defacto) bias for/against certain teams, which I think there clearly is now, so I don't agree with it either, but sports at the elite level being what it is I'm long past expecting these things from rugby or other top tier sports personally.
Would you say Wales get fair dealings in World Cups generally?
I am similarly scarred by this day. I actually missed that it was a red because i was too busy sounding off about what i assumed was going to be a yellow! I thought that would have been bad enough for what i saw as a textbook dominant tackle. When i & the other 4 welshmen in the room with me realised it was a red it was like we'd just witnessed a plane crash. Complete & utter shock! Turning to absolutely rage seconds later! I'm not sure i nor welsh rugby ever fully recovered from that. Alain rolland is & always will be a...[WORDS REMOVED TO UPHOLD COMMON DECENCY]...for that decision! Unforgiveable! Cheers WSP, although i could have done without being reminded of this day, ha haaa.
😂😂😂
You eco my feelings exactly mate. Shock to the core when the red was shown. Glad you enjoyed it, even if it was a painful watch 😂
And yes, I would agree with your conspiracy theory. Always thought that personally…
😬😬😬
Never a red card yellow at most
Agreed mate 👌🏼🏴
Best Team of the Cup 😊Wales
Yeah agreed. Shame it ended how it did
Was definitely a red card. We still had chances to win with 14 men vs france. I think nz would have battered us in the final tho. Game plan is similar jus nz we're alot better at it especially between 2010 n 2015
My issue was always Allan rolland, he is half French. It dnt make sense how he can officiate a game he has family links to. Its like the government investigating themselves n finding no wrong doing 🤷♂️
Unfortunately both of those things happened and continue to happen now 😬😂
@@TheWelshSportsPodcast but peeps still watch knowing corrupt situations occur 🤑
A big call to say you probably would've beaten NZ when you haven't done it since the 50s Wales would have that pressure on them try getting a red card in the final that's worse
I’m a bias fan what can I say 🤷🏻♂️😂
@@TheWelshSportsPodcast fair enough im probably the most one eyed AB supporter out but i like Wales a true rugby nation.
In fairness you guys are well within you’re rights to be one eyed 🇳🇿👌🏼
Yes Wales were robbed. Of their captain for about 60 minutes of the most important game of that generation by a French / Irish referee who thought the game was more about him than the teams taking part. Even down to 14 men, Wales only just lost suggesting that with a full side, they probably would have won and gone on into their first WC final. Whether they would have won that is debatable, but it’s possible. At that time, Wales had a young side, brimming with confidence and playing superb exuberant rugby - definitely possible.
Yeah the final would have obviously been a extremely difficult match but with all that momentum and such a well rounded team. Who knows 🤷🏻♂️😬
It was a clear red card. It was only controversial amongst people who didn’t know what the guidelines for referees said.
The issue was that similar tackles in the group stages had gone unpunished so there seamed no consistency in this one being a straight red
You have to put it in context... at the time this was shocking because the guidelines were not as strict as today.
@@MrSillyFun the guidelines said that a play lifted past horizontal and dropped was a red card. It was controversial because lots of spectators (and commentators and pundits) didn’t know that.
@@charlespirate1 The guidelines say that now, not then. Warburton lost contact/control and did not drive the player into the ground.
That ref was terrible, he should never been allowed ref kids rugby.
He reffed the previous WC final too I think. God knows how 🤷🏻♂️😂
A penalty, yes. A yellow, possibly. A red? Absolutely no way. And I'm English.
Alain Rolland should never have been allowed to referee a game involving France, given his French parentage.
Yeah 100 agree with you mate
Wales were lucky. They robbed Fiji in the last World Cup.
Fiji would have beaten us if he caught that final pass so you’re probably right 🤷🏻♂️
Saffer here with no skin in the game… yellow all day
👌🏼👌🏼👌🏼
Allan Roland didn't referee games. He destroyed them.
😬😬😬
Red card no idea what you are complaining about
No, Wales were not robbed.
The IRB Spear Tackle Memorandum was published on June 8th, 2009, over two years before the 2011 RWC. It was sent to ALL Rugby Unions in the world, and ALL elite level referees world wide. Several players had been red carded and suspended for spear tackles in the years leading up to 2011.
I am quoting directly from the IRB Spear Tackle Memorandum here;
_"1. The player is lifted and then forced or “speared” into the ground. A red card should be issued for this type of tackle, or"_
_"2. The lifted player is dropped to the ground from a height with no regard to the player’s safety. A red card should be issued for this type of tackle."_
Every single elite player in the world KNEW that if they executed a spear tackle, then they could expect to be sent off. Sam Warburton lifted Vincent Clerc, turned him over and dropped him on his head. No-one other than the most one-eyed Welsh fan would see that as anything other than a straight up red card offense - if Thierry Dusautoir had done that to Shane Williams, every Welsh fan would be screaming red card from the rooftops.
No, Sam ought to have have known better - he was a fool and he let his team down.
And I can't believe you Welsh fans are still bleating about this 13 years later. C'mon you Taffies, you weren't robbed, and you know it. You're all better than this!
Cheers for clearing that up for us Dave 👍🏼
I have to buck the trend here.
Wales were never beating NZ in the final. The styles, the mentalities, it's just an impossible match for Wales to win.
"it's just an impossible match for Wales to win" Are you high right now?
I think impossible is slightly harsh 😬
@MrSillyFun um they haven't won since the fifties and won't be winning in my lifetime and I'm 35, so no not high just correct.
@TheWelshSportsPodcast I think there's not a word in the English language that reflects how certain we should be that it couldn't happen.
Impossible doesn't seem nearly strong enough!
@@cro649 Seriously though, are you retarded or just a troll?
You are having a laugh mate. Red card, all day every day. Never a huge fan of Rolland but he got that spot on. If the tackle had been made by a French player on a Welsh player you would have been shouting for a red card.
Proabably right 😂
I’m just comparing that to the standard of the day and tackles similar to that were going unpunished all the way through the WC
As a ref myself, I completely agree with the red card decision. In my view, the tackle is reckless and is foul play and is therefore a minimum of a yellow card, then the french player lands dangerously because of the actions of Sam. I also think the arguments given that it isn’t the tacklers fault and the mitigating factor are ‘grasping at straws’ , in particular where you mentioned how the French player slowed down into the tackle. Also, I didn’t like the not so subtle reference to the refs half French nationality, suggesting bias, which I think is completely unfounded, and where you speculated that the ref was making up for his ‘poor’ decision. You have to remember that the ref only has one chance to see the collision and you mentioned how it looked bad at first sight which is all the ref would have had. Also, the fact it is in the first 20 mins of a World Cup semi final should not impact the decision at all as that is a Pandora’s box no one wants to open.
Other than that, I agree that wales should have won regardless, and that they most likely would have beaten NZ in the final.
That’s fair. You have a better understanding of the laws than me. I do think the slowing down like he did is a mitigating factor in my opinion. That all happens at full speed and he has very little time to react, he probably didn’t even realise he had his legs in the air before Clerk was on the ground🤷🏻♂️
When it comes to the nationality I think it’s fair to point out the conflict of interest.
Thanks for sharing your insight as a ref though. Very interesting to read👍🏼
@@TheWelshSportsPodcast 👍
@@TheWelshSportsPodcast very well put together vid either way
Thank you my friend. Thanks for taking the time to comment 👍🏼
Yes, Wales were robbed
🏴👌🏼
Red card all day
Spear tackle with force. Stop whinging, that's not what real rugby fans do
Everyone’s entitled to their opinion 👍🏼
At the time, the law came in only for this tournament. And wasn’t enforced. So based on the standards at the time, it was a joke of a call.
Agree, dangerous tackle.
No, it wasn't a spear tackle. No one is whinging here... sad not whinging... only the English whinge.
All these years later i still cant watch any.part of that game cos its way to painful.. france were 100% there for the taking by wales before Warburton red card.. even down to 14 men for most of game Wales still couldhave won with last minute halfpenny penalty who was as reliable as wednesday following tuesday but slipped just as he kicked ball which took just a fraction off distance to win game ... one of the most painful losses ive ever had watching wales
Yes I’ve been the same. I’ve never really revisited this out of pure heartache and watching back the amount of opportunities we missed at goal really didn’t do much to make me feel better.😂
I did feel proud of the team though The Boys really put a massive performance in and they deserve so much more 🏴
I think the use of the TMO has benefitted Wales more than any other country. Before, we used to get hammered by referees. Games against England especially at Twickenham were just a joke - refs used to sh*t themselves. I remember on Scrum V a Statistics PhD came on and proved that over 80% of all decisions went the home side's way.
Really? That’s a mental stat. I think when I look back Wales have been on the end of some howlers though. The Chris White one against Italy will forever live on in my brain. That was mental
@@TheWelshSportsPodcast A more recent one was the disallowed try by Gareth Anscombe at Twickers. The first time the RFU had to apologise for the TMO decision. Gatts wasn't happy!
Supporters go on about not beating NZ but if you revisit the videos we were done a few times. The worst was the 1963 game - the English ref was just bent.
** I wrote 'bent' but RUclips autocorrected to 'a girl' !!! **
I'm fairly sure the instructions to referees pre world cup was tip tackles, start at red then work down! Not Mr Roland Tho, always a yellow not red tho! As for last chance penalty, Roland was definitely trying to even things up! Also agree it was our best chance to win the world cup and like you I firmly believe we would of!!🏉🏉🏴🏴