Very nice! Those Shapton glass plates are a favourite of woodworkers for maintaining sharp chisels & small plane blades. As a simple solution to hold your sharpening stones/glass plates in place, a couple of wood paint stirring sticks glued across a board or your little wooden stone stand/holder at each end of the plates or stones will not only hold the stones/glass plates in place but rid you of the hazard that nails may present. Those paint sticks are thin enough to sit below the top surface of just about any stone & you can usually get them for free at most hardware stores or anywhere that paint is sold. Give it a try. Good luck.
It's so wholesome to see you get better at freehand sharpining. I know what that's like because I have been in that rabbit hole not too long ago. It started out with trying what different stones feel like and now I have more stones than I do knives. But it's all in good fun. Since you are mixing and matching into the ceramic lineup, may I suggest a naniwa chosera to go between your 320 and 1k. Thier 500 and 800 are among the best stones I have ever tried, and I tried many. It's quite a bit more expensive than the kuromaku but you get almost double the stone (25mm) thickness. Couldn't recommend them enough honestly.
I like the 320 for establishing an apex, but then I go to 1000, 3000 and 6000 in Shapton Glass. I get a really fine polish off the 6000. Then strop on Veritas green compound. You still need a nagura though.
shapton got a rockstar line too, mostly because the japan market wasn't a fan of the glass stones they're apparently just double thick glass stones, minus the glass
Once you get the hang of it, you can speed it up a bit by sharpening several knives on each stone before changing grit. I mostly use Naniwa stones, but I've tried Shapron Glass and they're really nice for harder steels.
Glass stones are a big fav of woodworkers for years. Since they don't dish very fast, plane blades sharpened with them stay straight. Web woodwork teacher Rob Cosman recommends them and sells a kit on his channel. He also has some instructional sharpening videos. FYI, some high quality chisels come in CPM steels since chisel life is an economic factor in commercial high end furniture making.
@@funcounting Crucible Powder Metal alloys have been designed to give maximum wear life of cutting edges. Wear life of Magnacut rivals tungsten carbide but has much better toughness.
I have a set of Shaptons but use them for my kitchen knives (custom Aeb-l @63.5hrc and SG2 at 63hrc) and big knives which are simple steels to 3V. They work great for them. For my edc knives i use eithe cbn or diamonds
I have a Chosera 600 that I start all of my sharpening sessions on, to thin and set the bevel. Very nice midway between 1000 grit and a course grit. Bitey but not too aggressive. I was bullied in to it by stock availability (no 800 or 400) but its turned out to be my go-to stone. After that I have a 1k and a 5k, hoping to add a 3k when they're back in stock.
Well Pete…you’re truly on your way down “the sharpening stone rabbit hole”…lol! There will be more to come, of that I'm sure. All the best from Canada 🇨🇦 MikeR.
12:06 - Ive noticed this in particular too, ive heard people say that the manufacturers dont really measure their grits in the same way and I can believe it, because one 5000 stone can be ALOT more aggressive than others and give you a completely different looking finish. I also have 2 different 200 grit stones, one of them feels more like a 1000 grit one, while the other feels like sand paper. Ive even noticed variations in the same exact stone from the same manufacturer too, so it seems clear that theres variation even between different batches of the same product. Edit: The shapton rockstar/glass are my favorite stones though, feels really good to use. But they are harder to get a mirror polish on than most traditional stones. For instance, on my naniwa professional 3000 stone I can get pretty damn close to a mirror finish, while on the 3000 rockstar its still cloudy and resembling what the 1000 naniwa stone would produce.
Bought my Shapton glass in 2013 I didn’t treat them so well, and dropped them often. Corners are chipped. I now keep them in a pelican case. They are still going strong and same thickness. I bought 120, 220, 320 and those are softer.
I also have practically the whole set of Shapton Ha No Kuromaku. Seems softer or just as hard as the low grit glass stones. I haven’t used the Shapton Pro’s which I believe are not the same as the Ha No’s They seem harder and same as glass stones only thicker.
FYI, the glass stones fit perfectly on top of the Kuromaku boxes. They're thin, but they don't dish very much at all, so they should last you many years. The Rock Star stones use exactly the same abrasives as the glass stones and are thicker, but they don't have that way cool glass, so....
The glass stones dish faster than the pro because they more friable, they release more grit and wear faster. It's not that much, don't get me wrong the glass are also hard and slow wearing but they're closer to the chosera stones in that way, which makes them more versatile for wide bevel blades and also makes them better at polishing. The kuromaku are known for being some of the hardest and least friable stones around. Just something folks should know. there are exceptions however, as the 220 and 320 kuromaku use a different abrasive from the others and thus are the only friable stones in that line. The glass stones all use the same abrasive.
TL;DR at the bottom Carbide "tear out" does not exist in the way most people think it does. Scienceofsharp has a ton of very imformative articles with electron microscope images that really show you what happens when you sharpen a knife. For instance, sharpening with the same (very light) pressure on a finer diamond plate will actually leave deeper scratches and a rougher edge than a coarse diamond plate. His article on the carbides in Maxamet dispells the myth of carbide tear out. The short version is that carbides are adhered very well to the steel matrix. That being said, you will see poor edge retention from shaprening steels like K390 on ceramic abraisives. What really happens is that the steel at the very apex will flex away from the stone every so slightly, resulting in metal fatigue and damage beneath the cutting edge. Think of it like bending a paper clip back and forth a bunch. Eventually. These weak points in the steel will expand enough the cause chipping that takes both carbides and the steel matrix with it. TL;DR: sharpening high-carbide steels on ceramic will cause microchipping, not carbide tear out.
I got the 1 and 5k Kuromaku through today. Having previously used mostly diamond plates these give a completely different experience. One that I'm really liking. I very much doubt I'll bother going any finer than the 5k as for me there seems little point. My lower grit stones for now will remain diamond plates. Great content coming through on the videos right now. Thanks
Glass keeps it dead flat. It's float glass essentially, GURANTEED to be flat... now, of course you need to flatten at some point with use, but that is what the glass is for. That and a few other "flashy" things.
Shapton glass is my choice of ceramic stone. Very hard, very fast cutting. I go through 500, 1K, 3K, 8K. Higher vanadium steels, I'll start with diamond, but still finish on glass. Would love to see some testing on ceramic vs diamond with different vanadium content steels. You should check out Atoma diamond plates, which lay out the diamonds in tiny clusters.
I dont know. I could imagine that diamond stones would also tear out carbides during the sharpening process, right? Is that also carbide tear out? is it only tear out if they fall out while cutting with the knife after sharpening with ceramic?
With the extra fine stones you can go in regions stropping compounds are. So think about which micron rating your stropping compound has. ->If your last stone is finer than the stropping compound that would make little sense...
The rockstar is exactly the same stone as the glass stones. But they are thicker and has no glass backing. I just ordered 500 and 6000 grits of these from Japan. Considering getting a 1000 and 8000 as well.
I have like a lot of bench stones mostly for sharpening for kitchen knives, the technique is totally different for sharpening. I also have the kme for my pocket knives! Which one do you prefer? I utilize the push pull method for kitchen knives and don’t want to out the edge into the softer stones, modern pocket knife steels are so technical unlike a lot of Japanese high carbon chef knives.
Your stone-holder got me excited to recommend some hobbyist woodworking RUclips videos. You appear to be a pretty handy guy who could get into that kind of creation - but RUclips woodworking is debatably a worse rabbit hole than RUclips knife videos.
Love them, to the point where I have nearly the whole progression, especially the ones above 1k. The 30k is great, but I must say that you can wear them quickly. For example, my 1k is nearly gone after one year, despite using it once in a while only (use other ~1k stones most of the time).
its taken me a good month of doing it every day for about and hour to feel fairly confident. I may do a vid soon on journeyman level free handing as I approach that skill class maybe
I want some of those shapton glass stones now, sounds like the different materials grab the steel and give better feedback , cool vid great results again.... Mirror them all hahah big blades ...
how long you been sharpening on flat stones? asking bc i just started 2 months ago and feel improvement everytime, only started so i could sharpen convex edges would love to see you sharpen a convex!
Blue black 320 is supposed to be the best in that series.. Naniwa green brick of joy think it’s 2000 grit is nice stone as well , but likes lots of water .
few things. the stones comes with a coating when they are new. you should lap that off first before using them. thats why the water beads off. second you are 100% correct about the carbides. it's called a carbide rich edge and you can see microscope images of it on science of sharp. lastly, you don't need some crazy progression like this. 3 stones is a full set. 4 is a complete set. 4 abrasives are all thats needed to do anything you can do with blades. from fixing severe damage to going to razor keen with a mirror edge. but more is always nice. who am I to talk, I have 30+ stones like these. A course aka grinding stone. a medium aka sharpening stone. an intermediate aka deburing or touch up stone. and a fine aka finishing or polishing stone. as for the carbide issue, that 320 is a silicon carbide whereas all the others you have are alumina. the silicon carbide will handle the vanadium without issue. the other stones you have will indeed create a carbide rich edge with vanadium steels. it's not some major issue but its something to be aware of. they grind vanadium steels rather slowly. To handle steels like k390 "correctly" you need something more like the silicon carbide stones at the least, though these days most choose diamonds. DMD resin bound diamond stones are really excellent and don't cost much from China. Chef knives to go sells them too. The grit ratings are all off though. The 1k is a 320. the 3k is a 3k. the 6k is a 800 or 1k. and the 12k is a 4k or 5k.
Completely agree. My set is 320, 1000, 3000 and 6000. If I was sharpening samurai swords for display I might need a wider range, but for knives that you're going to use -- three or four is plenty. You can get by with two and a strop.
I think there would be less of a burr; if any, if u do more just agaisnt the edge swipes instead of back n forth always. Especially on the last 2-3 stones.
Fill that gap with a Shapton Glass 500. My favorite stones are: Shapton Glass 500 Naniwa Chosera 800 (more like 1200 grit) Naniwa Chosera 3000 (more like 4000 grit) Honorable Mention: King 300 (awesome value) Shapton Pro 2000 Naniwa Chosera 2000 Naniwa Chosera 5000 Shapton Glass 6000 Kitayama 8000
Personally I prefer a DMT diamond stone for speed and than finish it off with a 2000 grit Naniwa water stone followed by some stropping no need for me to get crazy with stones above 2000 grit if it shaves and slices I’m happy.
I mainly use naniwas and only have a cheap shapto , any thoughts or reasons to get a shapton over the naniwas/ or is there a reason to add them in the process and why?
Agreed. I have Chosera Pro and Shapton pro stones. Really comparable. I just really like the cases the Shaptons come in. Makes me want to collect em all!
There’s been a lot of good deals on the shapton pros the last year. That is a reason to get one, great bang for your bucks… but of course only a grit you “need”. Don’t replace the Naniwa.
I THINK carbide tearout should be judged on a carbide-by-carbide basis and would happen regardless of ceramic or diamond stone with the iron matrix being the weaker link, not the abrasive material.
Don't worry about carbide tearout it's pretty much a myth as far as that is concerned. But the carbides sticking out from the matrix is true when using non diamond stuff. So you won't as fine of an apex, and there will he faster edge degradation. Though I haven't seen tearout specifically happen. The carbide tearout specifically won't be the thing to really worry about. Also a steel having vanadium doesn't matter. It's it having vanadium carbide. M390 has vanadium but it's mostly chromium carbide so it won't matter much what kind of abrasive you use.
Didn't want to take away from my first point in the above comment. But if you want to remove the burr without using a strop. Single strokes switching sides, using very very very little pressure is necessary. Also doing strokes edge leading will help cut it off. The I can't over emphasize how little pressure you should use when doing burr removal on the stone. Basically barely have the knife touch. That and the alternating strokes, bending the burr back and forth. To break it off.
Also keep cleaning swarf off the stone after some time. Al the very least between two different knives/steels. They clean easily with some water and hand.
Love the Pokemon edit haha I suggest you watch Michael Christy's video on carbide tear out. It is very detailed, and it is hard to argue with a guy with his skill.
Carbide tear out isn't real. If the vanadium carbide is harder than the stone then it will wear the stone away, if the stone is harder than the vanadium carbide then if will wear it away. You are more likely to damage your edge by using too much pressure than a softer stone damage it.
the 8k feels that way because it's a more friable stone. the glass stones are more friable than kuromaku in general. the 5k is known for being almost glassy. it's extremely hard and dense and not friable in the least. If you want the make the 5k feel more like that 8k, try soaking it for a few and or lapping it to create slurry. solved. you're welcome.
A comment on a William Collins video from 8 years ago may interest you with your cutting tests.............. @CarlDWardJr 8 years ago While attending the ABS school in AR back in 2002. The master instructors held a cutting contest with and for us the students. All of them use 220 Norton stones for the test knife. Look up American Bladesmith Scociety annual cutting contest. They stated that the contest had never been won by a blade that had a mirror finish and all winners were done with 220 grit because the "saw" edge the rougher grit produced lasted longer.
I evolved one step further from water to oil here’s my India course-India fine -Arkansas black Arkansas translucent it’s great no sloppy water slurry the India stones is same as water stones some type of aluminum ox abrasive should give it a try
Vanadium carbide is harder than aluminum oxide and thinking you would need diamonds to deal with them makes a lot of sense but unfortunately that's far from the truth. There are electron microscopy images showing aluminum oxide makes a clean cut on vanadium carbides. I don't understand how that happens but the fact is that it does happen and resulting edge is quite well structured. Contrary to popular belief diamond stone do not clean cut carbides. Carbides are brittle and sharpening with diamonds causes them to rupture. Edge may have lower sharpness or have preserved superficial appearance but with weak structure and lower durability. Diamond stone rupture any type of carbide including the "soft" chromium carbides so it will affect any powder metallurgy as well as more commonly used steels like AUS10 and 1.4116. Carbide rupture doesn't always happen but it's a common issue I would rather avoid. The source is Science of Sharp as usual.
6:37 there is so much to read about. some knob head is always gonna say "what'cha really need to do is buy this other thing that i bought cause, even though i didn't hear what you said, i know i'm more smarter than you." like piss off mate! i ain't got infinite money
My only encounters with carbide tear-out have been with D2 and its family of steels. Since their carbides are so large/chunky and not uniformly distributed throughout the steel, they do rip out gouges in your edge. But generally speaking carbide tear-out is not a very common issue these days especially on Powdered metallurgy steels (CPM) because of how small and uniformly distributed their mineral & element ingredients are within the steel.
Nice one pal. Glad you're enjoying the proper way of sharpening and not using some fancy machine. An understanding of the basics required in good edge, and patience, care and diligence are all that's required. I sharpen to .05 micron. That's to say that when a fine human hair is presented to the edge and slowly - or quickly lowered to same it 'silently separates' - not that you could hear it anyway - just sounds good 😉. Hair has to have 'cuticles? ` facing in right direction so edge can penetrate between same, this is indicative of .05 micron dimension. Fine grain steel preferable e.g. 14C28N, S30V et al. Steel hardness 'dictates' inclusive angle, e.g. 34-5 ° inclusive for 14C28N, nice durable edge and a breeze to get back to hair popping on 1 micron DMT diamond paste & leather. Powder steels such as S30V obviously need diamond to cut the carbide, 'conventional' like 14C28N, can make do with good old Aly Oxide - with a finish on DMT extra fine stones and a polish with varying grades of diamond paste, finishing on 1 micron DMT with light strokes. Result, mirror edge under a 20X Lupe under bright sunlight examining for half an hour. Flat bevels ?, not strictly necessary, but 'flat enough'. Establish desired angles with card - or plastic card angle templates attached to blade with double sided tape, bearing in mind any adjustments required in template due to angle of primary bevel on blade. This template can be left in position or removed as finger on spine gains 'positional memory'. Edge leading careful strokes only - let the stones do the work, every stroke at the correct angle. Burr etc. etc. etc. Don't overthink the stone thing, it's a logical progression from coarse (if required!) to fine, and a polish - if you're push cutting. Don't forget to present the edge perpendicular as far as possible to the workpiece, slant, and you're presenting a lesser angle, slant more and you're going to a slice with the very apex doing all the time work with the 'wedge' of the secondary bevel assisting far less efficiently. Better still, don't use the blade - 'cos, hey, it's only gonna go blunt 😊😊😅😅. Cheers, AL.
Damn it! It just occurred to me that if I'm not sharpening bloody knives, I'm watching someone else sharpening knives! Maybe I should be watching actual porn instead of knife porn.
Really enjoying the amount of content you've been pumping out. It's like a nice surprise Everytime I open RUclips
Your comment on the knife steel nerds AR RPM 9 video absolutely killed me today.😂
Can someone link?
@@Knivess0 Not sure if the full link will be eaten, so watch?v=PFjO7dP3bs4
Saw that too! 😂
@@Knivess0ruclips.net/video/PFjO7dP3bs4/видео.htmlsi=J0iAgvHLIl07ALL5
@@Knivess0 ruclips.net/video/PFjO7dP3bs4/видео.htmlsi=swQ3dUDQWS02wkIF
Very nice! Those Shapton glass plates are a favourite of woodworkers for maintaining sharp chisels & small plane blades. As a simple solution to hold your sharpening stones/glass plates in place, a couple of wood paint stirring sticks glued across a board or your little wooden stone stand/holder at each end of the plates or stones will not only hold the stones/glass plates in place but rid you of the hazard that nails may present. Those paint sticks are thin enough to sit below the top surface of just about any stone & you can usually get them for free at most hardware stores or anywhere that paint is sold. Give it a try. Good luck.
It's so wholesome to see you get better at freehand sharpining. I know what that's like because I have been in that rabbit hole not too long ago. It started out with trying what different stones feel like and now I have more stones than I do knives. But it's all in good fun. Since you are mixing and matching into the ceramic lineup, may I suggest a naniwa chosera to go between your 320 and 1k. Thier 500 and 800 are among the best stones I have ever tried, and I tried many. It's quite a bit more expensive than the kuromaku but you get almost double the stone (25mm) thickness. Couldn't recommend them enough honestly.
Love the free hand sharprning content. Nice improvement keep it up!
Pete thanks for the comparison of cutting performance, edge retention between freehand versus sharpening system.
I like the 320 for establishing an apex, but then I go to 1000, 3000 and 6000 in Shapton Glass. I get a really fine polish off the 6000. Then strop on Veritas green compound. You still need a nagura though.
shapton got a rockstar line too, mostly because the japan market wasn't a fan of the glass stones
they're apparently just double thick glass stones, minus the glass
Once you get the hang of it, you can speed it up a bit by sharpening several knives on each stone before changing grit. I mostly use Naniwa stones, but I've tried Shapron Glass and they're really nice for harder steels.
That's how I do it. I'm generally doing 2 or 3 kitchen knives at a time.
Glass stones are a big fav of woodworkers for years. Since they don't dish very fast, plane blades sharpened with them stay straight. Web woodwork teacher Rob Cosman recommends them and sells a kit on his channel. He also has some instructional sharpening videos. FYI, some high quality chisels come in CPM steels since chisel life is an economic factor in commercial high end furniture making.
Why steels and not something like tungsten-cobalt alloy?
@@funcounting Crucible Powder Metal alloys have been designed to give maximum wear life of cutting edges. Wear life of Magnacut rivals tungsten carbide but has much better toughness.
I have a set of Shaptons but use them for my kitchen knives (custom Aeb-l @63.5hrc and SG2 at 63hrc) and big knives which are simple steels to 3V. They work great for them. For my edc knives i use eithe cbn or diamonds
I have a Chosera 600 that I start all of my sharpening sessions on, to thin and set the bevel. Very nice midway between 1000 grit and a course grit. Bitey but not too aggressive. I was bullied in to it by stock availability (no 800 or 400) but its turned out to be my go-to stone. After that I have a 1k and a 5k, hoping to add a 3k when they're back in stock.
Well Pete…you’re truly on your way down “the sharpening stone rabbit hole”…lol! There will be more to come, of that I'm sure. All the best from Canada 🇨🇦 MikeR.
Respect, you are a true knife nerd and own a smooth sharpening movement.
12:06 - Ive noticed this in particular too, ive heard people say that the manufacturers dont really measure their grits in the same way and I can believe it, because one 5000 stone can be ALOT more aggressive than others and give you a completely different looking finish. I also have 2 different 200 grit stones, one of them feels more like a 1000 grit one, while the other feels like sand paper. Ive even noticed variations in the same exact stone from the same manufacturer too, so it seems clear that theres variation even between different batches of the same product.
Edit: The shapton rockstar/glass are my favorite stones though, feels really good to use. But they are harder to get a mirror polish on than most traditional stones. For instance, on my naniwa professional 3000 stone I can get pretty damn close to a mirror finish, while on the 3000 rockstar its still cloudy and resembling what the 1000 naniwa stone would produce.
Bought my Shapton glass in 2013 I didn’t treat them so well, and dropped them often. Corners are chipped. I now keep them in a pelican case. They are still going strong and same thickness. I bought 120, 220, 320 and those are softer.
I also have practically the whole set of Shapton Ha No Kuromaku. Seems softer or just as hard as the low grit glass stones. I haven’t used the Shapton Pro’s which I believe are not the same as the Ha No’s They seem harder and same as glass stones only thicker.
the glass stones fit the holders for the pro line because they are the same dimensions!
The glass 2k stone is a great finisher for kitchen knives
Your angle control has gotten really great!
2:40. Nailed it.
The Pokémon evolution editing was amazing
I have to say I have all of these stones and several dozens more. The Naniwa Chosera 800 and 3000 are the one’s I would fight you for. 😊
yes the resin bonded diamond naniwas are next
Though I prefer Chosera/Naniwa Pro, the Shapton Glass 500 double thick is the finest synthetic stone made to date, IMO.
FYI, the glass stones fit perfectly on top of the Kuromaku boxes. They're thin, but they don't dish very much at all, so they should last you many years. The Rock Star stones use exactly the same abrasives as the glass stones and are thicker, but they don't have that way cool glass, so....
The glass stones dish faster than the pro because they more friable, they release more grit and wear faster. It's not that much, don't get me wrong the glass are also hard and slow wearing but they're closer to the chosera stones in that way, which makes them more versatile for wide bevel blades and also makes them better at polishing. The kuromaku are known for being some of the hardest and least friable stones around. Just something folks should know. there are exceptions however, as the 220 and 320 kuromaku use a different abrasive from the others and thus are the only friable stones in that line. The glass stones all use the same abrasive.
I am loving all the videos! Thanks for years of enjoyment
Also Basil is totally cute!
Wow Pete you are feally getting all the coolest sharpening stones. I'll never catch up to you but I need to upgrade my shsrpening game.
TL;DR at the bottom
Carbide "tear out" does not exist in the way most people think it does. Scienceofsharp has a ton of very imformative articles with electron microscope images that really show you what happens when you sharpen a knife. For instance, sharpening with the same (very light) pressure on a finer diamond plate will actually leave deeper scratches and a rougher edge than a coarse diamond plate.
His article on the carbides in Maxamet dispells the myth of carbide tear out. The short version is that carbides are adhered very well to the steel matrix. That being said, you will see poor edge retention from shaprening steels like K390 on ceramic abraisives. What really happens is that the steel at the very apex will flex away from the stone every so slightly, resulting in metal fatigue and damage beneath the cutting edge. Think of it like bending a paper clip back and forth a bunch. Eventually. These weak points in the steel will expand enough the cause chipping that takes both carbides and the steel matrix with it.
TL;DR: sharpening high-carbide steels on ceramic will cause microchipping, not carbide tear out.
Always love Virtuovice's🇯🇵 sharpening videos, therapeutic
Very nice finish on that blade.
In regards to carbide tear out, I believe Knife Steel Nerds did an article on it a while back.
I got the 1 and 5k Kuromaku through today. Having previously used mostly diamond plates these give a completely different experience. One that I'm really liking. I very much doubt I'll bother going any finer than the 5k as for me there seems little point. My lower grit stones for now will remain diamond plates. Great content coming through on the videos right now. Thanks
Thank you for the video!
I want SO MUCH MORE Basal Metal in my life. Please expand on this to the maximum POSSIBLE degree. I think, you, me, Basal, we are all worth it. 🤘🏻
Glass keeps it dead flat. It's float glass essentially, GURANTEED to be flat... now, of course you need to flatten at some point with use, but that is what the glass is for. That and a few other "flashy" things.
Basil is a rock god 😎
Shapton glass is my choice of ceramic stone. Very hard, very fast cutting. I go through 500, 1K, 3K, 8K. Higher vanadium steels, I'll start with diamond, but still finish on glass. Would love to see some testing on ceramic vs diamond with different vanadium content steels. You should check out Atoma diamond plates, which lay out the diamonds in tiny clusters.
Glad to see this upload! Did you have similar results yhe knife steel nerds with any AR RPM 9 from artisan or cjrb?
great demonstration
Those are very good stones! Since I got the Glass Stone 7's (the smaller ones) nothing else seems to come even close! ❤
Full set must give insane results.
if i had the money i would support you every month. thank you for everything !
I dont know. I could imagine that diamond stones would also tear out carbides during the sharpening process, right? Is that also carbide tear out? is it only tear out if they fall out while cutting with the knife after sharpening with ceramic?
"those guys Love to shit, and who doesn't right".... Pete, you are my Yoda haha
With the extra fine stones you can go in regions stropping compounds are. So think about which micron rating your stropping compound has. ->If your last stone is finer than the stropping compound that would make little sense...
The rockstar is exactly the same stone as the glass stones. But they are thicker and has no glass backing. I just ordered 500 and 6000 grits of these from Japan. Considering getting a 1000 and 8000 as well.
i was hoping this was the case! should round out my set nicely when the 500 arrives
That edge retention test seems to answer the question of carbide tear out.
I have like a lot of bench stones mostly for sharpening for kitchen knives, the technique is totally different for sharpening. I also have the kme for my pocket knives! Which one do you prefer? I utilize the push pull method for kitchen knives and don’t want to out the edge into the softer stones, modern pocket knife steels are so technical unlike a lot of Japanese high carbon chef knives.
Your stone-holder got me excited to recommend some hobbyist woodworking RUclips videos. You appear to be a pretty handy guy who could get into that kind of creation - but RUclips woodworking is debatably a worse rabbit hole than RUclips knife videos.
Love the surprise ending 😂
i just use the stone holder from one of my shapton pro stones for my glass stones
I love my Shapton's! Have you needed to flatten your stones yet?
Love them, to the point where I have nearly the whole progression, especially the ones above 1k. The 30k is great, but I must say that you can wear them quickly. For example, my 1k is nearly gone after one year, despite using it once in a while only (use other ~1k stones most of the time).
I’m still a little hesitant about stones. I haven’t had the best results. I seem to get off angle. I’ll work on it. Thanks Peter. 🎸🔪
its taken me a good month of doing it every day for about and hour to feel fairly confident. I may do a vid soon on journeyman level free handing as I approach that skill class maybe
I want some of those shapton glass stones now, sounds like the different materials grab the steel and give better feedback , cool vid great results again.... Mirror them all hahah big blades ...
The fire emblem music killed me ❤
how long you been sharpening on flat stones? asking bc i just started 2 months ago and feel improvement everytime, only started so i could sharpen convex edges would love to see you sharpen a convex!
The cat is the one who’s been listening to Iron Maiden.
Blue black 320 is supposed to be the best in that series..
Naniwa green brick of joy think it’s 2000 grit is nice stone as well , but likes lots of water .
few things. the stones comes with a coating when they are new. you should lap that off first before using them. thats why the water beads off. second you are 100% correct about the carbides. it's called a carbide rich edge and you can see microscope images of it on science of sharp. lastly, you don't need some crazy progression like this. 3 stones is a full set. 4 is a complete set. 4 abrasives are all thats needed to do anything you can do with blades. from fixing severe damage to going to razor keen with a mirror edge. but more is always nice. who am I to talk, I have 30+ stones like these. A course aka grinding stone. a medium aka sharpening stone. an intermediate aka deburing or touch up stone. and a fine aka finishing or polishing stone.
as for the carbide issue, that 320 is a silicon carbide whereas all the others you have are alumina. the silicon carbide will handle the vanadium without issue. the other stones you have will indeed create a carbide rich edge with vanadium steels. it's not some major issue but its something to be aware of. they grind vanadium steels rather slowly. To handle steels like k390 "correctly" you need something more like the silicon carbide stones at the least, though these days most choose diamonds. DMD resin bound diamond stones are really excellent and don't cost much from China. Chef knives to go sells them too. The grit ratings are all off though. The 1k is a 320. the 3k is a 3k. the 6k is a 800 or 1k. and the 12k is a 4k or 5k.
Completely agree. My set is 320, 1000, 3000 and 6000. If I was sharpening samurai swords for display I might need a wider range, but for knives that you're going to use -- three or four is plenty. You can get by with two and a strop.
The sharpening content is neato
Keep the videos coming!!!
I think there would be less of a burr; if any, if u do more just agaisnt the edge swipes instead of back n forth always. Especially on the last 2-3 stones.
hi what hardest metal you can sharp on this stones in your opinion ?
Fill that gap with a Shapton Glass 500. My favorite stones are:
Shapton Glass 500
Naniwa Chosera 800 (more like 1200 grit)
Naniwa Chosera 3000 (more like 4000 grit)
Honorable Mention:
King 300 (awesome value)
Shapton Pro 2000
Naniwa Chosera 2000
Naniwa Chosera 5000
Shapton Glass 6000
Kitayama 8000
Personally I prefer a DMT diamond stone for speed and than finish it off with a 2000 grit Naniwa water stone followed by some stropping no need for me to get crazy with stones above 2000 grit if it shaves and slices I’m happy.
That edge looks awesome 🔪
I mainly use naniwas and only have a cheap shapto , any thoughts or reasons to get a shapton over the naniwas/ or is there a reason to add them in the process and why?
No need to switch if you have naniwa pro/chosera. They're about the same.
Agreed. I have Chosera Pro and Shapton pro stones. Really comparable. I just really like the cases the Shaptons come in. Makes me want to collect em all!
There’s been a lot of good deals on the shapton pros the last year. That is a reason to get one, great bang for your bucks… but of course only a grit you “need”. Don’t replace the Naniwa.
I THINK carbide tearout should be judged on a carbide-by-carbide basis and would happen regardless of ceramic or diamond stone with the iron matrix being the weaker link, not the abrasive material.
Carbide tear out doesn't happen.
The only thing that happens with wrong abrasives is you leave exposed unabraded carbides.
Don't worry about carbide tearout it's pretty much a myth as far as that is concerned.
But the carbides sticking out from the matrix is true when using non diamond stuff. So you won't as fine of an apex, and there will he faster edge degradation. Though I haven't seen tearout specifically happen.
The carbide tearout specifically won't be the thing to really worry about.
Also a steel having vanadium doesn't matter. It's it having vanadium carbide. M390 has vanadium but it's mostly chromium carbide so it won't matter much what kind of abrasive you use.
Didn't want to take away from my first point in the above comment.
But if you want to remove the burr without using a strop. Single strokes switching sides, using very very very little pressure is necessary. Also doing strokes edge leading will help cut it off.
The I can't over emphasize how little pressure you should use when doing burr removal on the stone. Basically barely have the knife touch.
That and the alternating strokes, bending the burr back and forth. To break it off.
Suggest to keep the nails at glass level so that the stone is not dingnged.
Also keep cleaning swarf off the stone after some time. Al the very least between two different knives/steels. They clean easily with some water and hand.
Love the Pokemon edit haha
I suggest you watch Michael Christy's video on carbide tear out. It is very detailed, and it is hard to argue with a guy with his skill.
Carbide tear out isn't real. If the vanadium carbide is harder than the stone then it will wear the stone away, if the stone is harder than the vanadium carbide then if will wear it away. You are more likely to damage your edge by using too much pressure than a softer stone damage it.
Dirty stones cry at their owners. Try a Sabitoru rust eraser, medium. They are quite cheap.
the 8k feels that way because it's a more friable stone. the glass stones are more friable than kuromaku in general. the 5k is known for being almost glassy. it's extremely hard and dense and not friable in the least. If you want the make the 5k feel more like that 8k, try soaking it for a few and or lapping it to create slurry. solved. you're welcome.
I've had it with all the disinfo on the wingspan of fowl
I like coarser edges myself. 600 is as high as i go.
A comment on a William Collins video from 8 years ago may interest you with your cutting tests.............. @CarlDWardJr
8 years ago
While attending the ABS school in AR back in 2002. The master instructors held a cutting contest with and for us the students. All of them use 220 Norton stones for the test knife. Look up American Bladesmith Scociety annual cutting contest. They stated that the contest had never been won by a blade that had a mirror finish and all winners were done with 220 grit because the "saw" edge the rougher grit produced lasted longer.
Now you are getting into the real shit! Please do a Naniwa Chosera/pro comparison and Shapton Kuromako
A damp towel draped over bricky makes for a very serviceable base for your stones. “and who doesn’t“? 😂🤣😂
From my experience so far, the purple 5000 stone is too soft for some high HRC steels.
The orange 1000 stone is pretty satisfying tho.
yeah I am getting a couple diamond resin naniwas for the higher carbide steels
Omg dude I have been using my 6000 shapton wrong as fuck. Now I gotta go back and redo 2knivez
Are those shapton glass SC or HR?
The HR is for harder steels.
Carbide tearout won't happen. Only at really really low micron levels.
Carbide tear out isn't real.
@@petyrbaelish1216
Rehashing thoroughly disproven concepts makes the world go round!
@@petyrbaelish1216it was shown in closeups to happen at lower than 1 micron grit. Via K Knives a professional knife maker.
ILTS!
I evolved one step further from water to oil here’s my India course-India fine -Arkansas black Arkansas translucent it’s great no sloppy water slurry the India stones is same as water stones some type of aluminum ox abrasive should give it a try
Love the rpg tunes
Wth? I rapidly pressed B! 😆
Dude, a wet towel underneath the stone is all you need
Am I the only one that thought the Shapton glass was supposed to be a Diamond stone embedded in glass? Lol
Vanadium carbide is harder than aluminum oxide and thinking you would need diamonds to deal with them makes a lot of sense but unfortunately that's far from the truth.
There are electron microscopy images showing aluminum oxide makes a clean cut on vanadium carbides. I don't understand how that happens but the fact is that it does happen and resulting edge is quite well structured.
Contrary to popular belief diamond stone do not clean cut carbides.
Carbides are brittle and sharpening with diamonds causes them to rupture. Edge may have lower sharpness or have preserved superficial appearance but with weak structure and lower durability.
Diamond stone rupture any type of carbide including the "soft" chromium carbides so it will affect any powder metallurgy as well as more commonly used steels like AUS10 and 1.4116. Carbide rupture doesn't always happen but it's a common issue I would rather avoid.
The source is Science of Sharp as usual.
Good investment for a knife nerd
try soapy water on them
You shouldn't use detergents on them according to the manufacturer
@@omfgbbqsauce1177 the purple ston with very litle soap water is a diffrent stone
6:37 there is so much to read about. some knob head is always gonna say "what'cha really need to do is buy this other thing that i bought cause, even though i didn't hear what you said, i know i'm more smarter than you."
like piss off mate! i ain't got infinite money
Everyone knows that domestic game hens do not have wings.
As a germaphobe I approve this toilet-free video
My only encounters with carbide tear-out have been with D2 and its family of steels. Since their carbides are so large/chunky and not uniformly distributed throughout the steel, they do rip out gouges in your edge. But generally speaking carbide tear-out is not a very common issue these days especially on Powdered metallurgy steels (CPM) because of how small and uniformly distributed their mineral & element ingredients are within the steel.
Brother POKEMON IS MY FAVORITE, BATTLE STONES hehehe
Nice one pal. Glad you're enjoying the proper way of sharpening and not using some fancy machine. An understanding of the basics required in good edge, and patience, care and diligence are all that's required.
I sharpen to .05 micron. That's to say that when a fine human hair is presented to the edge and slowly - or quickly lowered to same it 'silently separates' - not that you could hear it anyway - just sounds good 😉. Hair has to have 'cuticles? ` facing in right direction so edge can penetrate between same, this is indicative of .05 micron dimension. Fine grain steel preferable e.g. 14C28N, S30V et al. Steel hardness 'dictates' inclusive angle, e.g. 34-5 ° inclusive for 14C28N, nice durable edge and a breeze to get back to hair popping on 1 micron DMT diamond paste & leather. Powder steels such as S30V obviously need diamond to cut the carbide, 'conventional' like 14C28N, can make do with good old Aly Oxide - with a finish on DMT extra fine stones and a polish with varying grades of diamond paste, finishing on 1 micron DMT with light strokes. Result, mirror edge under a 20X Lupe under bright sunlight examining for half an hour. Flat bevels ?, not strictly necessary, but 'flat enough'. Establish desired angles with card - or plastic card angle templates attached to blade with double sided tape, bearing in mind any adjustments required in template due to angle of primary bevel on blade. This template can be left in position or removed as finger on spine gains 'positional memory'. Edge leading careful strokes only - let the stones do the work, every stroke at the correct angle. Burr etc. etc. etc. Don't overthink the stone thing, it's a logical progression from coarse (if required!) to fine, and a polish - if you're push cutting. Don't forget to present the edge perpendicular as far as possible to the workpiece, slant, and you're presenting a lesser angle, slant more and you're going to a slice with the very apex doing all the time work with the 'wedge' of the secondary bevel assisting far less efficiently. Better still, don't use the blade - 'cos, hey, it's only gonna go blunt 😊😊😅😅.
Cheers,
AL.
Damn it! It just occurred to me that if I'm not sharpening bloody knives, I'm watching someone else sharpening knives! Maybe I should be watching actual porn instead of knife porn.
Its not evolution, its reproduction
LoVE the Shapton glass stones. 🤌