AAI 2nd Gen SPIW Flechette Rifles
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The SPIW program began in 1962 with entries from Colt, Springfield, AAI, and Winchester. The first set of trials were a complete failure, and both Colt and Winchester abandoned the project at that point. AAI pressed on, producing these second generation rifles - one for trials in 1966 and one after. Both are chambered for the XM-645 5.6x57mm single-flechette cartridge. Under testing, both showed multiple serious problems in reliability, noise, cook-offs, and accuracy. The company would struggle on for years continuing to develop the flechette rifle system, but would be ultimately unsuccessful.
Thanks to the Rock Island Arsenal Museum for allowing me access to film this very interesting rifle! If you are in the Quad Cities in Illinois or Iowa, the Museum is definitely worth a visit. They have a great number of small arms on display as well as an excellent history of the Rock Island Arsenal.
www.arsenalhist...
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Rock Island Auctions: Rich mahogany
Rock Island Arsenal: Janitors closet
Ones for the military ones for rich old guys who have enough to pay for transferrables😂😂😂
@@cantsneedgaming4591 what that
@Fenris B it dcammer
I am more worried as why there are children running around in the electrical backrooms..while aome weird man talks to a camera
@@sebastianriz4703 those aint kids those are gun gnomes who take all the broke guns and California compliant guns and make em the way gun Jesus intended
Only the best electrical closets for Ian to film in.
I like that the shut of that says do not shut off is off
I always knew he'd come out of the closet eventually. 🤣
@@Senshikaji Forgotten Circuit-breakers? ;)
I see Ian forgot his pocket fireplace this trip. :(
Yea.. nobody said anything about a fan... but yea who shut off the thing that clearly says DON'T SHUT OFF ... is Ian in danger here??
The breaker box with a huge "DON'T SWITCH OFF!" warning on it being switched off tickled me quite a bit :D.
Guess that's one way to ensure no one shuts it off.
Yep idiot proofing at its best.i especially like that it IS in the off position
that'll be because it's the power supply for the laser containment grid and who you gonna' call to round up all the ghosts of the civil war stored there if they broke loose;?
@@repletereplete8002 umm... They called gun jesus...clearly.
Can't be shut off if its already shut off.
Modern problems require modern solutions
I wanna live in an alternate future where the US army has these weird flechete rifles with multi shot grenade launchers built in and the bundeswehr have g11s that you need a masters in mechanical engineering to field strip.
and the Russian army has AN94s
an alternate furture with no war cause every rifle fucking sucks and is too complicated to use in warfare.
life is good, guns are only used for sports shooting.
Germany had so many top class engineering graduates that they now offer large bonuses for people taking up apprenticeships.
So, you get a work force where guys with big brains are working the tools and joe public is lost in the background.
Keep on dreaming bro 😂😂😂😂
And the British have the EM-2s
The muzzle device is hilarious! Beautiful example of "check the box" engineering in order to meet arbitrary contract requirements. 'You want a what? OK, we'll weld a few more lugs on there."
True, however I'm quite convinced that the engineers would be glad to do something more elegant and seeing them forced to this sort of approach is a good indication that the set of criteria defined by the army was not realistic to be met with an effective product at the end.
@@PetrHosek
I still have theory that any time a bad engineer got reprimanded in AAI they would be forced to work on the SPIW project lol
Well I guess that's why today in modern tines most attachments fit the standardized picatinny rail sizes because of the problems with single purpose lugs. Simple ingenuity fixes everything!
Me: "Oh wow, a flechette rifle! How Cool!"
FW: "It was a complete, absolute dumpster fire"
Damn.
There are good flechet rifles out there.
Sci fi has lied to me.
if it wasn't for the noise issue, that might be an idea for a sniper rifle ???
They may be hot garbage, but they look really cool.
I feel the same way about the gyrojet handgun and carbine. Still love it, absolutely rad as hell, especially when seeing those gyrojet round jets go in slow motion. Flechette is really neat as well, though. I think it would probably be easier to get a functional weapon out of flechette than it would gyrojet
I have an empty cartridge case for this rifle. It was given to me almost 40 years ago by one of the engineers on this project. He told me about the flechette projectile. When I commented on the protruding primer he told me that was by design. It's unique, and I've never seen another one.
Would love to see this.
I think you forgot to mention that they're primer activated
@Marky wooosh
No he remembered to mention it
I'm fine with that. Just as long as they were not anvil activiated. Still, it must've been a bitch having to schlepp Othias around the world just to say "Activate"
don't you doubt gun Jesus
Thanks! That's some really good information that Ian forgot to mention repeatedly.
Loaded from a 60 round dark chocolate rolo.
The best for ice cream
The best for multiple hits on mass.
And ice cream.
ummmmmm, compo Rollos
The forbidden Rolo
Rolo Tony brown town, check yourself right at the doooor
What's funny is the smoothbore flechette firing concept is actually extremely good for large bore tank cannons. It's what the primary AP rounds on an M1 tank are.
Pretty sure primary AP rounds for M1s is a tandem shaped charge
@@kevobrando95lx44 no it's a dart
Look up M829
I mean, a flechette is just an arrow at the end of the day so aside from the gun having flaws, the ammo likely needed work since the arrow itself is more important for accuracy than its launching mechanism.
@@kevobrando95lx44 No, that's the general purpose round. The AT rounds are the M829 series of APFSDS rounds.
If vinyl records can make a come back, so can flechette rounds.
Unlike vinyl records they were never here so serial flechette rounds can't "come back"
Also, vinyl records have come back for reasons that have nothing to do with technical performance. That could never happen here.
@@FIREBRAND38 flechettes are kind of still used as they are great artillery filler
They sorta did, just in tanks, lol
Correct me if I'm wrong, but they came back as most people had them a few decades ago, so they sparked a feeling of nostalgia.
Basically no-one remembers flechette rifles, so they aren't going to come back in any substantial amount
I love the styling of this rifle, very retro-futuristic.
Same, the sporter stock is so cool on a gun like this
Yea, it reminds me of the gyrorocket rifle/pistol of same era.
Did he mention it was primer activated? ;)
@Stanley Jedrzejczyk research has it's payoffs and failures. i wouldnt go as far as calling total waste. we know things now, thanks to it.
Kinda looks like a Type VIIC U boat to me.
Most tactical muzzle device ever.
Beyond tacti-cool; they're tacti-kill.
It has an almost dieselpunk aesthetic.
I wouldn't pay money for it unless it had a rail as well.
You'll see them in the new tacti-Cool catalog available for the....AR, Soon. Dear Lord!
420 buddy
"Improve hit probability by volume of fire" or as intellectuals refer to it, *NEEDS MOAR DAKKA*
Ah, a man of culture, I see.
If we believe it works hard enough, it'll work.
Best we paint it red to increase its muzzle velocity as well.
WAAAAAAAAAGH!!!!
DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA
Accuracy by volume.
Only museum I ever had to get a background check done before I could get in. It was worth it.
Is it open the public after that background check? Or like military only?
@@CastleBomb44 anyone
@@mprice323 cool. Thanks for the reply. Have great 4th of July
All of the ON post bases are like that for random civilians like me. Mostly quick, but took a while at the gate at MCRD San Diego, for example.
Matthew Price w
" Don't shut off" sticker applied to that box in the background; lever sits in off position...
They might have put that label on specifically for this video, for the humor.
maybe they are doing maintenance on whatever the breaker is connected too, and the label is meant for non maintenance personal.
@@CommodoreFan64 That's possible! (it's personnel* ;P)
@@proteus2103 lol I was on my phone when I typed that, and did not notice the auto correct
@@CommodoreFan64 I knew what you meant :P
Never realized how much I wanted a steampunk Garand until now.
Ide say more diesel punk.
The rifles were alright, but man, those electrical boxes really stole the show.
More electrical boxes please.
Did you know those electrical boxes can mount a detachable bipod?
Forgotten Utilities
The mag reminds me of the Farquar-Hill Rifle's magazine.
I briefly thought it was some weird, modernised version before I read the description.
thanks i was thinking the same thing and trying to remember the name
Yeah I was thinking the bastard child of a Farquhar-hill and a gyrojet
or the johnson
From the thumbnail that's what I thought as well.
Cool guns. In case anyone went straight to the comments instead of watching the full vid, these are primer activated btw.
It's strange, normally he doesn't forget to mention something like that... thanks man
Now i wanna know how it works, as in the patent of the mechanism
Little known fact - flechettes were designed to counteract an invading force driving chevettes. A highlight in miscommunication history.
And the invading chevettes broke down on the way so the whole effort was unneeded
@@christophernemeth421Often the invading force would fool the defenders and switch to Yugo's. What the now-stymied defenders didn't realize was that 3 simultaneous good sneezed could diable a platoon. In fact, McCormick spices marketeed their pepper with a commercial that said "end them rightly"
@NPC Beef tell me more
Christopher Nemeth as a proud former chevette owner I can confirm
@@SpacePatrollerLaser - BEIGE! : )
I always have a soft spot for more experimental weapon designs, even if they don't pan out.
Same. Especially if it had ammunition that wasn't the conventional bullet. Bonus points if it was a bullpup.
@@livingcorpse5664you just like saying things that make you look like you have a knowledge of guns. Eh how bout that bullpup. Lets put an acog on that.
@@garrysmith5562 Just likes starting pointless fights on the internet.
flechette guns always amaze me, so goddamn cool.
they would be great scienfiction material
@@webertheo5448 Yup, just like the Pulsers in the Honorverse novels.
@@webertheo5448 _"Molly Millions"_ from William Gibson's _"Neuromancer"_ uses a flechette gun that shoots paralyzing darts laced with shellfish poison. One of the best books every btw, especially if you like cyberpunk.
What exactly is cool about flechette guns?
marshaul that they never work I guess
Are they called SPIW because they go SPIW SPIW instead of PEW PEW
Spew bullets at the enemy 3 at a time.
No it's because the whole project is spew.
No. Nice try.
They wanted to spiw the guts of their enemies.
...I know this is a joke but the acronym is probably the verb "spew" as others mentioned in the thread, which generally means to project a large volume of (a hose spews water), and I think SPIW stands for... Special Purpose Individual Weapon? Or maybe I'm mixing that up with OICW.
Sorry but jokes are a lie formulated by the government to artificially boost human laughter production to provide energy to our interdimensional monster overlords. Also to be honest the way you formatted the original joke, using "spew" as onomatopoeia instead of a word, makes it seem like you didn't know it was a word so w/e.
@@northropi2027 I remember it as Special Purpose Infantry Weapon. But that is a memory covered in cobwebs
my favorite type of gun, the cartridge based crossbow.
I have never seen anything more clearly conceived of, and built in, the 60's than this gun.
The 60s were americas wunderwaffen period.
You can tell that a venue doesn't like Ian when they make him wear gloves and film in the electrical closet.
I love the designs of the bolts. Probably the most fascinating part of firearms to me. The bolts, the carriers, the lock-up systems and how they are intended to cooperate in fractions of seconds.
Finally, actual "forgotten weapons."
What kind of apostate hasn't gone back and watched all the early videos!?
@@marshaul the kind that doesn't know what "apostate" means
I think of this as the American G11.
Weird ammo, quirky action, goes for volume instead of accuracy, actually could have been pretty badass if they had worked out all the flaws...
With odd weapons like this I always wonder how they ended up there (of course with this gun it's clear but still) cool rifle, thanks for sharing
They are transferred over when a project ends and the curator of the museum accepts them into the collection
@@richardlathrop61 - It probably didn't hurt that the SPIW program was being directed at Rock Island by the US Army Weapons Command and the Project Manager Rifles.
Did it have rifling?
I love the switch behind Ian that has a label saying “DO NOT SHUT OFF” is in the off position.
The arsenal museum has cool things like prototype plastic mags from the 1960s
7:22 I scratched my head for about 10 minutes trying to remember where I had used such a safety. Not just seen or read about, but touched and operated with my hands. Finally hit me.... M203 Grenade Launcher, which was sadly not fed by a 3-round magazine.
I know this is pretty old....but to give you and idea why it is like an m203, AAI, who developed this rifle, also developed that grenade launcher....funny how it kinda just transferred over huh
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh when people say "spew" they mean SPIW.
This is like the day I realized "skuzzy" is SCSI.
or when you hear daddy thumb talk about skitty tactical and you search for it only to realize it's actually spelled SKD
In a strange way it's very reminiscent aesthetically of the Farquhar-Hill, even down to the drum magazine.
I thought the same thing when I saw the thumbnail.
To me it looks more like a plastic Garand with Farquhar-Hill mags.
The drum reminds me of the Farquhar-hill drum mag.
I was going to say exactly that,visually it's a really similar drum
Also looks a lot like a modernized Johnson 1941
Halfway in, I'm left to wonder: is it, by chance, primer actuated?
I won't spoil it
Ian, whenever The_Cheiftan gets to a place where he’ll be filming a video series, he does what he calls an “unofficial high speed tour”, walking through the whole museum in 20 minutes or so.
With all of the weird museums you visit all over the world, I think a similar thing would probably fit in really well on this channel
Ian. I have been watching since your 4th upload. And as someone that has a BS in History( from Springfield College, yes THAT Springfield). I have got to let you know.
You have become a Premier American Historian.
While watching. I feel that this upload not only shows your enthusiasm for a rifle that is truly rare. But also the intellectual enthusiasm for the subject matter.
Ian. I think You have hit your stride.
Keep it up!!!!!!!!!!!
P.S. Ian V. Hogg is rolling in his grave while wishing he was as good as you. :)
3:56
Sounds like someone's breaking in a new 2lt in the background.
Cursed
8:53 for when you need to go prone while firing a grenade and stabbing someone
The original Bipod Knife
Yeah its a common situation when fighting...
After that little ammo lecture, I think it would make a great video, going through some of the weird and wonderful rounds that have been dreamt-up.
Tround moment
Worth noting the decibel is logarithmic, so that 10 db difference at the muzzle is actually 10 times louder than the M16.
Interesting to note that J.C. Garand's early design version of the M1 was primer actuated.
That bolt is a beautiful example of 60s metal polishing. I love that aesthetic.
Speaking of interesting cartridges, I would love to hear you talk about Metal Storm Limited at some point Ian.
Lindeman08 he mentions Metal Storm in one of the early Q&A videos from a a year or two ago. Not sure, but if I remember correctly Ian’s view was that it will be hard to get to work as a practical application in theatre of war and that since the company was in administration the likelihood that he’d ever be able to look at one is close to non existent. But I might remember wrong.
The original inventor was an Aussie, I remember watching him demonstrate it and explain its functionality on ABC TV Australia maybe 20 years ago. You're really not missing much, it's kinda like a scaled down MLRS 30 minutes to load the thing and a fraction of a second to empty it. You'd really need a C&Rsenal type animation to explain how the thing works, something that was included in the TV interview and demo if you can find it somewhere to watch it.
@@Tiger351 I think you're referring to the Area Denial system. That is only one of several applications of the Metal Storm technology based on lining up projectiles separated by propellant in a barrel and then igniting it from front to back by means of an electric current. At one point they were even developing a multi-barreled pistol aswell but I don't know if it was ever produced. I think it would be very interesting if Ian ever had the opportunity to talk about it in depth.
@@Lindeman08 Yes, that was the Area Denial system, I wasn't aware that they were working on small arms as well. After the failure of the area denial system to get anything more than just contracts for military testing the company kinda quickly faded into obscurity (at least to the general public).
If I remember correctly, the closest that the Metal Storm concept has come to a functional and useful small arm is an underbarrel or independent grenade launcher that lets you load two or three grenades into something the size of a conventional single shot launcher. Not 100% sure if anyone's taken them up on that one yet or not. I'm still skeptical.
Now I want to see Caseless, Duplex, Saboted Flechette make it into a prototype military weapon.
Power box in the background with a "DON'T SHUT OFF" label. Handle in the OFF position.
It's probably fine :P
Ian just had to show them who was boss before he sat down.
That clearly must be what all the dislikes are about.
I attended a four week m14NM and M1911A1NM accurizing course in 1987 or 1988 and I got to see those two rifles in the museum. I was always interested in how they work and never had an opportunity to handle them. One of our instructors had fired them and told me that he ended up with shredded green plastic in his beard after firing one of them from the muzzle devise. Very interesting video. Thanks.
Hey dude ,new sub here . I discovered by chance your channel few days ago and despite i don t have any particular interest in fire arms i found your videos captivating by all the tech details and historical informations you put in your work , and this one is no exception.All the best.
I saw a flechette 12 gauge shotgun shell used in Vietnam. The unit I was with was suffering great losses at our S4 supply storage area. Seems the local folk were using it as their personal lumber yard, stealing our plywood and such to build their hooch's in the nearby village. So the old man decided it was time to put a stop to this pilferage, he ordered a night ambush be placed in the area where the fence had been cut. Now I don't know his thoughts on this but he ordered the troops on guard to be armed with 12 gauges loaded with these flechette rounds. Perhaps he thought they were less then lethal, but boy was he wrong. When a couple of local's made their trip to the midnight plywood store, our clerks and jerks who were pulling guard duty blasted away with their 12 gauges! The results: three kids dead, ages 12, 16 and 17. The uproar in the village nearly turned into a riot, the old man lost his job over the deal, and I got to see the results of these wondrous rounds in action. They were a bit messy despite their tiny size they really tore up those boys, of course they were dressed in their black pajamas (a common night wear among they locals at the time) so there was little to no resistance. Lots of blood; I can tell you.
"If you have to SPIW, SPIW in this."
- Garth
Best comment by far!
It's hilarious how much that mag looks like the mag for the Farquhar-Hill rifle ... in fact, the entire rifle has the same kind of profile minus the pistol grip!
I was recommended your channel randomly and I must say you have single handedly gotten me into the inner working of various firearms !!! I will one day become a collector because the history and mechanics of what we've crafted as a species amazes me.
The operating springs for the SPIW prototypes took some impressive engineering in order to survive the insane cyclic rates of these weapons.
The breaker box behind Ian says "DON'T SHUT OFF', of course someone has shut it off. 😄👍
I love it. The second from left cutout switch notes "DON'T SHUT OFF." And it is shut off.
What I read about in, I believe, SCIENCE & MECHANICS in c1965 was that it was more like a shotgun, firing several dozen in one shot. I had my doubats at the time. There were also some legal problems with this on the international scene
God you can see how excited Ian is. His moving and speaking a little faster than he usually does.
Rumour has it that these were primer activated. I'm surprised he didn't mention that.
0:44 read the diagram how do people miss this?
the dude I think you’re missing the sarcasm
@@superlegoboy21 of the entire class.
This is a neat weapon. One of the cool things about the guns is that it's primer-actuated. I'm not sure if the video mentions that.
How to know Ian is a real person, he gets giggly at the sound of kids and smiles
## -- Jesus loves the little children...##
Once had to pick up some new manufacture M-252 mortars from Rock Island. Most amusing part was that I had to tell my immediate chain of command that to transport the mortars we ourselves had to draw weapons and tool up.
"I am here today In tHe miDDlE oF The miSsisSIPpi riVeR."
blub blub
@@bakouten1918 he can walk on water so he is fine :)
IIHDDIEFTSSIPVR
@@gusty9053 Sure, 'cause he is Gun Jesus!!
I think one of his pinky fingers had a stroke when he typed it. 🤔
That super complicated muzzle device is super neat looking.
Did he mention at some point it was primer activated?
Zeiph at around 5:00
0:44 look at the diagram wtf people
If I were to hazard a guess the Flechette was likely one of the same found in M1001 40mm canister (the only high velocity anything from that 40mm platform). These are cast metal and much like the larger 2.75inch rocket version have a habit of fins breaking off causing flechettes to go rouge. This isn’t a problem when you have a load of these things shooting a 4 foot pattern at 100 yards.
Today with modern alloys and CNC machining you could probably make extremely accurate darts, they would be expensive though. If they really want it to work the Army should shine the Bill Alexander beacon on a cloudy night. He and his sidekick (Lapua man) can solve any problem.
I wonder if these are primer activated..... Does he mention at all?
Why yes it is but I don't think he mentioned it. Lol
The best of these videos is when I see the thumbnail and think WTF IS THAT
Wait hold on, is this primer activated?
I'm not sure. Did he mention it in the video?
Pretty sure he would have mentioned something important like that.
Yes it is.
Ian: Look at these cool guns!
Everyone Else: I'd rather read the labels on the electrical boxes!
The Mississippi seems some what Drier than I had anticipated!
I really wish they would let Ian shoot more of these guns as part of his presentation.
Nobody:
Ian: Did I mention it's primer activated?
I was stationed at RIA for a couple of years.
Their museum is amazing.
So cool that you are there.
You'll have subject matter for decades.
Nobody:
Gun Jesus: PRIMER ACTIVATED!!!!
That 66 model. Man, it’s like the general in charge of the SPIW program let his 9 year old son write the requirements. It needs to take a bayonet for up close bayonet charges, but it also needs to have a medium range grenade launcher and a bipod for those long range precision shots. I’m surprised they didn’t want it to also have a scope, laser eyes, and shoulder mounted rocket launchers.
In my language we have a phrase that describes it quite accurately: They wanted it make cabbage rolls and cure cancer in addition to being a rifle.
"Don't shut off" switch set to off.
That bothered me too.
And I thought I was the only one OCD enough to notice. Glad to know I'm (closer to?) normal.
When a submarine and a rifle have a secret love child.
Jokes aside what fascinating weapons. I've been really intrigued by the attempts to use flechettes in small arms.
with that drum magazine it looks kinda like sci-fi version of johnson rifle
Ian is amazing to listen to. His knowledge is vast.
You forgot to mention that it's primer activated. Not many people know that
Nice joke
He did
The very choicest breaker boxes, Not only for their sturdy construction and non-reactive finish but also their timeless clean lined aesthetics
I have a strange feeling these are primer-activated.
Ian in range should discuss flachette and other alternative projectiles like bolo and sabots
"Did I mention its primer activated!!!"
No only like three times 😅😅
A BOLT FROM A MINI CROSSBOW FITS NICELY IN THE BARREL OF A PAINTER. You can make it work. YOUR WELCOME!!!
2:33 the muzzle device on the ‘66 pattern looks like a model of an Art Deco spaceship
Interesting that the Steyr ACR flechette was also 10gr
AAI provided flechettes to Steyr for use in loading in their own cartridges.
Daniel Watters I didn’t know that, cheers!
The kid yelling in the background is a great new addition 😜
The wierder the gun is, the more is Ian excited. You can notice this if you watch Forggoten Weapons for a while
@@DESTRUCT0NAT0R Someone will have a good time in that museum
I was intrigued by the heavy duty electrical breaker switch on the wall behind you labelled "don't shut off" which was nonetheless clearly switched to the off position!
Did I mention they are primer activated?
Ribbon Rifle currently being looked at. Fulfilling the duplex probability potential and exposure times requirements yet not abandoning the benefits of rifle stabilized projectiles.
Not surprised these didn't make it past prototype.
Flechettes are a dumb idea in the first place.
I think I saw these and others in a book called "Muskets to M14s" in our school library in grade 5.
The SEALs used 40mm flechette rounds for their grenade launchers. The problem they found with them was, you could hit a target with numerous darts, and, they would just keep running, until they bled out. They had no immediate knock-down power, especially not against someone running on the adrenaline of combat.
I wonder how much of that would have been from firing them out of a low pressure 40mm grenade launcher? I couldn't find a velocity for the 40mm flechette load, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was below 1000 fps, which should produce radically different wounding effects than one traveling at over 4500 fps.
Make it shoot lawn darts.
@@ARCNA442 They kept the flechette rounds around because, they eventually found that they were great for instant foliage removal. If you couldn't see where the fire was coming from, fire one round in the general direction, and, presto! That tree the NVA were using as cover is gone.
Ian, please don't forget your PPE. Arc flash is a real danger.
The switch box in the back with a label that says "DONT SHUT OFF" with the switch in the off position. #winning
It's nice to see a schematic of the ammo, thanks! This is especially cool for rare ammo like fléchettes