@@markdavis180 A weapon like this, which is poorly suited for dirty conditions, would be ideal for police in small urban areas under threat by guerrillas. If the gun is captured or lost (ejem!), the rough life of insurgency would render them unusable quickly. The lack of interchangeable parts would also be a plus.. only in this sense. OTHER THAN THAT as a consideration... it is a very difficult sell. My 2 cents.... respectfully.
There is a magazine article from 1940/41 that went into great deal of detail about the Reising and its production. In the article it was stated the machine tools used to make the gun were 75 years old. That dates them to the end of the Civil War.
@@MichaelJohnson-tw7dq Yay! That's it! Stick it to 'em. Ask for documentation. When I completed my first AR-15 I was shocked on how flimsy it was. Then I thought, "Can you do better?" Then I thought that the AR-15 was never meant to be the Winchester pre '64 of the Eugene Stoner series.
@Fred brandon It also means that the tools could be pretty worn out, and thus production tolerances could be very loose as a result. Hence the need to hand finish and to individually fit parts for a complete gun. Not good in a mass production environment because that hand finishing takes a lot of time and manpower.
My greatuncle was a Paramarine killed on Gavutu. For whatever reason, there's not a ton of great sources on the Paramarines I've been able to buy, with the only book I have being "Battalion of the Damned" (plus some Marine Corps docs), which I got 'cause my uncle's mentioned in it a few times. Anyway, according to that when the M55 first went into combat the Paramarines didn't really have the Johnson yet, except for some automatic rifles procured privately, and a lot of guys still carried the 1903 because even then they couldn't get enough Reisings (not that those guys minded, the issues with the M55 were known before they landed). And the fireteam was still based around the BAR until after Guadalcanal. The TOE changes to all auto guns came later. Before landing (I think when they were in NZ) some of the Marines figured out a way to modify some spring around the trigger group that greatly reduced the main failure to feed problem and increased reliability greatly, but they didn't have enough springs to fix everything before Guadalcanal. In the book it's mentioned a bunch of Marines armed with M55s acquired M1911s from the Navy on USS Haywood to supplement.
I was in a gun shop in Arizona years ago and got talking about WWII military arms (they had a lot of M1 carbines on display) and ended up talking about SMGs and the owner says check this out and goes in the back and brings out a m60 varient and hands it to me to look at. I've thought about that gun for years and could never remember what it was called but I could remember the unique charging "handle", thank you so much for this video the name if this gun has been bugging me for literally years
I heard those things actually work pretty well in cleaner, drier environments, they just flopped in the pacific because of the humidity and dirt inherent to jungle warfare.
They can't really handle any environment worse than civilian policing. They're difficult to disassemble and clean and the open bolt slot right where you have to put your hand is a big danger to your fingers.
@@chitoryu12 Yeah, a good reminder that most things are built and tested in nice clean labs and workshops by people who theoretically know how it works, and if you skip the next step of testing something will go wrong.
In the day I interviewed Para Marines and Marine Raider veterans. They liked the Reising for its utility. They also talked about group cleaning policy and parts interchangeability issues you brought up.
Every Marine ive spoken to that was issued a Riesing said they were absolutely shit, they would rather heft the extra weight of the Thompson because it also ment a good weapon
My dad was in the 2nd Marines in WW2. Guadalcanal, Tarawa and Siapan. He carried this rifle. I asked him what he thought about it. He said, "Good enough," And if I wanted something else, once things got hot, there were plenty of other guns just laying around, next to the dead guys."
I’ve got an original marine build! It almost never has issues if you grind down the rear of the firing pin a few mm to prevent tip breakage and clean it every 300 rnds. 875rpm with Winchester whitebox. 4-5 inch groups at 100m on semi.
My grandpa was in the 2nd Para-marine battalion. They weren’t at Guadalcanal, but deployed to Bougainville. He carried a Garand there, and also at Iwo Jima after the unit was dissolved and he was reassigned to the 5th.
Funny, my Grampy served with the 5th at Iwo Jima. I can't imagine the shit they saw, bad enough he never talked about it to his kids or us grandchildren.
My grandpa didn’t have a problem talking about Iwo Jima…sort of. Their officer and NCO’s all got hit in the first two days…he wouldn’t really talk about that part. A few days later, he was leading a section on patrol as a 17 year old pfc. They got cut off by a machine gun nest, so he charged it to draw their fire while the rest of the guys escaped. They got out clean; he got out with half a 7.7 round that ricocheted stuck in his skull. It was still there even when I was a kid. That’s about the only story he’d be willing to share from Iwo Jima…and that’s just because we all knew about it already from the newspaper stories and the medal citations.
The tale of the Reising shows some of the reasons why extended military trials exist - because someone's been bitten by it in the past. It sounds as though with some relatively minor changes it could have been a really good fit for the purpose but it was a solid performer despite that.
In addition to modifying the design of the gun itself, the entire manufacturing process needed to be overhauled from the ground up to produce tightly toleranced interchangeable parts and proper quality control. In order for the gun to actually be combat-ready in 1941, they would've needed to start this whole process in like 1934, when nobody in America was really seriously concerned about a war yet. Not only did they not have time, if they had started appropriately early finding the funding to actually do everything right would've been almost impossible.
@@johndaniels1197 Then there’s the ‘unintended consequences’ aspect of any kind of revamp: ‘well, we fixed that, but now this other thing is screwed as a result’. So at the end of the day it seems to me they did the right thing by sticking with what they had.
@@jamessimpson4577 The right thing would've been to get properly re-armed with modern weapons during the interwar years so that crap like this doesn't happen. Short-sightedness and budget pinching stopped that.
The Reising epitaph should be "I coulda been a contender!" It had a lot of good points. It just needed a couple years of rigorous testing and tweaking to make it more reliable, and it didn't have that time.
It might have been able to be better than the Thompson, but that is a pretty low bar. The cheap mass-produced guns (such as the M3) would have replaced it still.
The Reising really is the perfect example of why guns that work great in the civilian context don't always measure up to being pressed into military context. Many people question why new firearms technology can take decades to go from commercially available to military adoption, and the Reising is a great example of what happens when a design that isn't fully matured and hardened for rough use is dragged into combat.
Been playing a lot of Enlisted recently and I love how it has many of the lesser known guns that saw action in WW2, including the Reising. It's had me revisiting a lot of the Forgotten Weapons videos.
This is crazy. I was just watching The Pacific last night and caught sight of an M50. I immediately searched for a video on it, and couldn’t find anything good. God bless this channel.
Gotta say I love gun history and how surprisingly small the gun world is. I have a H&R 999 and seeing the Reising magazine learning they manufactured Reising SMGs, FALs and M14s it's neat to say the least.
I have the 22 trainer version of this. Serial number “002” and it’s clearly in the prototype stage Its slightly different than the later leatherneck rifles, the stocks dint fit, and the magwells are not interchangeable Next time Ian comes up to film in Canada id be happy to make it available.
@@drrisen-9442 history doesnt matter to the lawmakers here anymore. This generation will be the last to own any handguns barring a change in law by subsequent governments. This includes artifacts from the wars. Your grandfather may have taken it off a nazi during the liberation of the Netherlands, or off juno beach. Your kid can’t inherit it. Either it gets welded up or smelted down. Its an attack on Americangun culture bogeynen directed at the most law abiding segment of the Canadian population as a theatrical vote grab from uninformed voters.
@@Chris_Garman it's an old .22lr rifle with a proprietary magazine. The Canadian government doesn't go after those, even with the new BS laws they've put in place recently they're still safe
Years ago I worked for a police department that had three of these M-50s........but only had two 12 round magazines. Our chief carried one of the guns and one of the magazines in the trunk of his car. That left two guns in the arms room with only a single 12 round magazine between them. Ah.....the good ole days!
There's no story I love more than legends about some beancounter O-7 deciding to cut magazine sizes down to 'reduce ammunition consumption'. Which is a good way to reduce personnel costs, because once combat is over, you will definitely have fewer personnel left.
I have a 1955 edition of American Rifleman and they had everything from johnson rifles to gewher 43's for like $50-$80 and even a British contract 1911 in .455 webley for only $30. Theres so many cool guns in there that are so expensive today, like that $30 1911 is only $332 in todays money which youd never see a gun like that go for anymore
@@ethanwiley7605 I inherited a British 1911 many years ago. I foolishly sold it because .455 Webley Auto brass was nearly impossible to find in the pre internet days.
I bought my Reising M50 in 1990. It was one of the last ones made in 1957, the year I was born. It came with the 12 round magazine and 12 round magazine housing. I replaced the magazine housing with a 20 round magazine housing. The 30 round magazines were made by a guy named Ken Christy in the early 90’s. They are good magazines, I have three of them and they fit in the M3 grease gun 3 mag pouch. I like my Reising. It has a distinctive sound while shooting. Just a unique SMG.
Ive also got a ‘57 and some Ken Christies also. They work great! Ive got an extra barrel too, I have a secret dream of putting my Omega can on it sone day. Have you ever considered it or heard anyone doing so?
Another fun fact, model 60's were also used in combat being acquired for the marines. There are a few pics out there showing marines carrying model 60's, and at least two different marines carrying model 60's with the barrel sawn off. Another fun fact is if you want an additional mag and want something more than 20 rounds, 45 ACP UZI mags both original and reproduction will work in a Reising if you drill a new mag lock hole. The .45 UZI mags are based on the Reisings mags. That's also why you see aftermarket 30 round mags.
Being a blue costume wearing gun grabber who has suckled at the teats of the taxpayers since his first day at the academy is not something you should be proud of.
I know the VA State Police had at least one actual M50 at some point. I know because I got a call from the ATF wanting to know why a dealer in NV was trying to do a transfer for one to a customer when their records showed it as ours. Fortunately we were able to figure it out and ATF approved the transfer. It seems when the ATF rules came down, someone at the state police registered it with the ATF not realizing that it had already been sold and whoever bought it, also registered it during the amnesty so it got double registered and no one caught it until then.
A good friend of mine has one and it's one of the most controllable and accurate SMG I've shot. He has two of the 20 round mags and two of the twelve round mags. We still manage to go through a gallon bucket of my reloads pretty quick on a range day with it.
I am lucky enough to own a Reising M50 and it is one of the most fun guns to shoot. I have one 20 round magazine and five of the 12 rounders. The only malfunctions I have ever had is out of two of the 12 round mags having worn springs. People forget that most weapons at the time had a mag capacity of 5 or 10 rounds. In semi, 12 rounds out of this being used like a semi-auto carbine would have probably seemed like decent capacity. The M1 Carbine only carried 15 rounds and would probably have been seen as filling a similar niche'
I've got a couple of American Rifleman issues from WW II and one of them has an article on the Reising. There is also a full page "add" for it that says "Putting big red holes in little yellow men."
In 1979 some of the GSA/FPS units pulled in to serve at the Ft. Indiantown Gap refugee center arrived with Reisings and Thompsons because they had been told to bring them (for unknown reason). After a week or two the guns were sent back to the different regions they came from and were probably destroyed in the 80s when FPS began torching weapons it felt weren't needed anymore.
Love my M50. Mines part of the 3rd Marine Corps contract and it’s a transitional model based off features. I have the best results with 20 round mags. Every 12 round and repro 30s I’ve had feeding issues
In the 1970's, my father was a police officer in Durham NC. He told me that the armory still had several of the 50 style Reising machine guns and he was able to shoot a mag. through one. He said it worked fine.
That video on the M55 was the only reason I noticed a certain .22 rifle on consignment at my LGS a few years back. The rifle was in a rack with the top side facing away, and I noticed the odd semi oval hole in the bottom of the forestock. I did a double take and thought hmmm, I've seen that before somewhere....It turned out to be an H&R - Reising Model 65, built for the Marines as a trainer for the M1 Garand in 44-45. Mine is unfortunately a late enough example (8000 range serial #) that it is not likely to have been actually issued to the Marines, but the gun is absolutely identical to those that were.
5:50 Small factual correction, the Model 60 had an 18.25" barrel, not 16". The NFA wasn't modified to allow 16"-barreled title I rifles until the early 50's.
Sounds like they made over 100k of them so that's not a small amount really, especially for Mr Riseing at $2 a throw; 200 grand was a heck of a lot of dosh in the 1940s. IIRC the coast guard kept these for many years and was quite happy with them. Prisons were the other big user.
One of the additional uses for these guns was equipping guerrilla units. There's at least one picture of Iliff David Richardson (of "They Were Expendable" and "American Guerrilla in the Philippines" fame) with a Model 50.
We have one of these in the armory at the police department I work at. Really neat piece of history we bring out on range days from time to time. I guess the department has had it for a really long time that was procured from the military. It still fires on auto. Sweet piece of history.
The gun quickly became despised by front-line Marines, and Lieutenant Colonel Merritt A. Edson, Commander, 1st Marine Raider Battalion, ordered that his troops' Reisings be flung into Guadalcanal's crocodile-infested Lunga River, as his troops resorted to reliable bolt-action Springfield rifles.
I have heard that some modest numbers of these M50 had been paradropped (by Polish 1586 Special Operation Squadron or other allis units) as supplies for Polish underground Home Army during WWII.
@@Wanaskiwin, true but most combat takes place in ranges under 100 meters. At that range both rounds are effective. I’m sure the operators of both rifles would’ve preferred one of those Hollywood never runs out of ammunition magazines.
I appreciate the commentary in this video I've often pondered why a light weight self loading carbine with an exposed action and marginal reliability was a recipe for success with the m1 carbine but despised with the reising
Nice looking gun; shame they didn't get a chance to iron out the creases before throwing it in at the deep end. Really looking forward to tomorrow to see how it handles.
12446 isn't that early. I have a 6xx serial # Reising. ;) One thing about these Reisings, it is known for is the firing pin breaking due to it being bent between the hammer and bullet primer. There is flex firing causing metal fatigue and the pins would eventually break. Modification (modern modification someone did to Reisings) is to convert the firing pin to be a inertia driven firing pins. This is done by filing the back of the firing pin so it is a tad shorter and stop the compression between the hammer and the primer. The hammer would hit the pin and cause it to thrust forward, setting off the round. At no time the front and back has contact at the same time.
After the wr, H&R took a lot of their barrels for the Reising gun and made .22cal bolt action single shots out of them. We had one in our hardware store that I got. Had a Williams peep sight on it. Boring the barrel made for .45 out to only .22 made it quite a nail driver. It was only single shot bolt action, but it sure shot well!
I knew a retired Alabama State Trooper who had some tales to tell about a Reising he was issued in the fifties back when one trooper might work alone covering three or four counties. He said it was a great attention getter when called for the Friday night fights at the local tonks. Tonks=the basis for honky tonks minus the honkys
When I was on the JROTC rifle team in the late 90s, we had many different brands of 22 single shot rifles in our armory. They were all pretty old, and starting to become unreliable. The Harrington and Richardson models however always worked the best, and rarely ever had a malfunction.
@@CrustygunsLight strikes, cases not ejecting and getting stuck, basically any malfunction that isn't a failure to feed can still happen to a single shot.
So that is the weapon that Sgt. Basilone played by Seda slung over his shoulder in the Pacific!!! Right after the Lt. gets shot in the face. I always wondered what kind of weapon that was. I really appreciate all the knowledge you have passed on Ian!!!! You have the best job in the universe!!! Thank you!!
I read gunners glory and the first story in the book is about a machine gunner on Guadalcanal, he is the team leader if I remember right and talked about how he loved his reising despite the negative feedback a lot of other marines gave it.
I want a ruger pistol caliber carbine ..the older I get the more I like traditional stocks..I started on shotguns as most kids in my area for bird and deer hunting on a budget so a small traditional stock jst feels right..I wish it was more common to have an AR like that but I know not without piston operation...love ya Ian ❤️👑
Thanks for an entertaining, informative video! This was indeed my understanding; a good gun pressed into roles for which it was not intended. A 12rd mag didn't help its popularity either. I'm looking forward to the shooting video tomorrow.
This is a weapon I would use primarily as a carbine in semi auto, only using the full auto in the extreme situations (pretty much like I did with my M-4). It would certainly be a handy and effective weapon in CQB jungle combat.
I had the privilege to shoot a transferable M-50. It was VERY pleasant to shoot and pretty accurate out to 50 yards. It slower cyclic rate made it sound kinda like, "chug-chug-chug-chug-chug". It also shot a really tight pattern. Hitting an angled steel plate at 25 yards with a 5 shot burst, the rounds literally would hit the ground in front of the plate in a symmetrical left to right pattern every time. COOL STUFF! ;)
Just watched the video with the disassembly of the M55. With that great big sliding hammer thing, it's almost a semi-closed bolt, I reckon the hammer adds a fair bit of mass to the bolt. Any way, I think the basic action's realy neat.
I'd like to relate a story told to me by a veteran of the ETO of WWII. He was a US Army truck driver that was originally issued a M50 Reising. He loved it. Later, they took his Reising away and gave him a Thompson. He was not a happy camper. I could see why a truck driver would prefer the Reising having fired and hefted both.
The book "Battle Cry" by Leon Uris is a fictional story, but it uses many experiences that the author experienced as a Marine in WW2. He documents the Reising being issued to radiomen and their experiences with it. It was clearly not well liked even before entering combat, and the gun comes in for a lot of hate from the (fictional) characters. It was a fine second line arm, but was really not suitable for combat conditions. A 12 round magazine is clearly not of much use in a combat submachine gun, but it's fine for guards, boarding parties, MP units, rear security troops, etc. When kept clean the guns actually worked well, but it was not suitable for the role it was originally handed.
@@ketchman8299 Then he's not going to be happy answering you. I can tell you what he will say. Of just those two, he'll take the thompson but would much prefer an MP40 or Beretta
@@wingracer1614 Sir, when I want YOUR opinion on Ian's thoughts and preference's I will address that question to you. Until then I will continue to adress my questions on Ian's thoughts in a manner such as I previously did. Thank you for your concern.
As a weapon, it was good starting point; all it needed was several of cycles of 'tuning' it to iron out the worst issues (IMO). Unfortunately, in wartime, that's not always an option... And yeah, it _looks_ like an 'early / pre-WWII' SMG (wood furniture edition), and definitely lighter than it's Euro / Slav cousins.
I like the Reising. As much like the M3 grease gun. It's problems could have been easily fixed and improved upon with further development. But alas it never went there. Still neat though
I really like the idea of the closed bolt system. Just the dirt factor sells it for me. The accuracy is just an added plus. I like the recesses charging handle, and if it had the ejection port on top it would be really cool. A modern one, with a ploy stock, an improved trigger group and safety selector, and taking Sig M17/18 mags in 32 rounds would be a great 9mm sub machine gun.
My dad carried the paratrooper folding stock model stateside and said they were absolute junk. Constant jamming, small magazine. He loved his Johnson Rifle though.
Hopefully we can see some range time with this. I'd love to hear your opinion of the compensator. Probably nit picky and of very little concern but that compensator design seems like it would allow easier ingres of dirt and such.
Very nice work as always, been looking at these for a while and you've really got me thinking about a few things that I didn't know, good entry level class 3 weapon compared to other's, maybe one day......
Hell of a thing not telling them not to mix match parts ! But still that charging system is just begging for mud . I was surprised to see a WWII Marine SMG I have never seen or heard of before . I enjoyed the video .
i know its flawed and the tommy gun is the star but ive always wanted a Reising they "used to be" the "affordable" NFA weapon in the 1980s and i lusted after them but never could get enough money together when one was for sale.. now i cant even glance at the price of one without getting sick in my mouth.
The NFA needs to fall so all machineguns go down to their actual value (scarcely more than semi autos). Your story is just further proof that the NFA is designed to keep autos only in the hands of the wealthy.
In the 1980's there was a large quantity of M-50 carbines released by the Illinois Prison system. These were sold by a fellow by the name of Perry. They were $125.00 each plus the $200 tax stamp to own one. We had about five in circulation in my area. They were an interesting gun but as said, were frail in many respects and difficult to take apart to clean. Magazines were always hard to find even back then. The 20 round especially. Our guns were Parkerized with oil finish on the stocks. Some had property markings. None had any Military markings. Curious thing with these types of firearms. Whenever we sold a weapon, it had to go up at least $200 in value to recoup the tax cost. So now the $125.00 gun is $325.00 for the next transferrer. As can be seen, the cost goes up rather fast. If it was a truly much sought after weapon, then the cost could soar. New M-60 GPMG from Maremount Saco in those days was under a $1,000 each for dealers to buy. The Golden Age of Class 3 weapons in the USA was 1975 to 1986.
Really is a shame there wasn't more refinement into this lil guy. It's easy to forget current ar 15s have essentially 60 years of r&d up to this point, and it's a superior weapon system because of that.
An SMG with 12 round mags. Someone was an Elbonian procurement officer before joining the marines.
plus non-interchangeable parts... peak elbonian.
I'm trying to figure out how that would be a good idea, maybe as like a police carbine?
@@markdavis180 Most likely. I wouldn't be surprised if police were thinking in base six because of revolvers.
@@markdavis180 A weapon like this, which is poorly suited for dirty conditions, would be ideal for police in small urban areas under threat by guerrillas.
If the gun is captured or lost (ejem!), the rough life of insurgency would render them unusable quickly. The lack of interchangeable parts would also be a plus.. only in this sense.
OTHER THAN THAT as a consideration... it is a very difficult sell.
My 2 cents.... respectfully.
@@themastermason1 I think you may have revealed the secret. 12 rounds in base six is ..... 20!
I was shocked to see this SMG in the series "The Pacific" over the Thompson. Someone was paying attention to detail though. Neat, simple rifles.
Was the Reising in that show? I don’t remember seeing it but definitely remember seeing the Thompson.
@@chuckmangione4747 They start to use Thompsons a couple episodes in, after the army lands.
@@chuckmangione4747 During Guadalcanal Campaign, If I'm remember correctly. Duo with Early Pattern Thompsons.
The Pacific did a really good job with technical details.
Also with stealing the Army’s supplies, using M1903’s and talking about WWI rations. Did a good job showing the Army was better equipped overall.
There is a magazine article from 1940/41 that went into great deal of detail about the Reising and its production. In the article it was stated the machine tools used to make the gun were 75 years old. That dates them to the end of the Civil War.
@@MichaelJohnson-tw7dq Yay! That's it! Stick it to 'em. Ask for documentation. When I completed my first AR-15 I was shocked on how flimsy it was. Then I thought, "Can you do better?" Then I thought that the AR-15 was never meant to be the Winchester pre '64 of the Eugene Stoner series.
@@MichaelJohnson-tw7dq And, so far, he has not responded so he stuck it to you,
@@MichaelJohnson-tw7dq Popular Science, April 1941, Walter Holbrook
@@johnplaid648 Yikes.
@Fred brandon It also means that the tools could be pretty worn out, and thus production tolerances could be very loose as a result. Hence the need to hand finish and to individually fit parts for a complete gun. Not good in a mass production environment because that hand finishing takes a lot of time and manpower.
My greatuncle was a Paramarine killed on Gavutu. For whatever reason, there's not a ton of great sources on the Paramarines I've been able to buy, with the only book I have being "Battalion of the Damned" (plus some Marine Corps docs), which I got 'cause my uncle's mentioned in it a few times. Anyway, according to that when the M55 first went into combat the Paramarines didn't really have the Johnson yet, except for some automatic rifles procured privately, and a lot of guys still carried the 1903 because even then they couldn't get enough Reisings (not that those guys minded, the issues with the M55 were known before they landed). And the fireteam was still based around the BAR until after Guadalcanal. The TOE changes to all auto guns came later. Before landing (I think when they were in NZ) some of the Marines figured out a way to modify some spring around the trigger group that greatly reduced the main failure to feed problem and increased reliability greatly, but they didn't have enough springs to fix everything before Guadalcanal. In the book it's mentioned a bunch of Marines armed with M55s acquired M1911s from the Navy on USS Haywood to supplement.
Sorry, I'm not familiar with "TOE" Whats that mean exactly?
@@BigWheel. Table Of Equipment
@@BigWheel. Table of Organization and Equipment. It's the officially ordained description of a formation's arms, equipment and manpower.
I would like to read more about the Reising modification, do you have any links to the sources?
You lie about your name!
Why should anyone believe you?
I was in a gun shop in Arizona years ago and got talking about WWII military arms (they had a lot of M1 carbines on display) and ended up talking about SMGs and the owner says check this out and goes in the back and brings out a m60 varient and hands it to me to look at. I've thought about that gun for years and could never remember what it was called but I could remember the unique charging "handle", thank you so much for this video the name if this gun has been bugging me for literally years
I heard those things actually work pretty well in cleaner, drier environments, they just flopped in the pacific because of the humidity and dirt inherent to jungle warfare.
They can't really handle any environment worse than civilian policing. They're difficult to disassemble and clean and the open bolt slot right where you have to put your hand is a big danger to your fingers.
@@chitoryu12 Yeah, a good reminder that most things are built and tested in nice clean labs and workshops by people who theoretically know how it works, and if you skip the next step of testing something will go wrong.
that as good as not working at all
guns who dont work in shit conditions are guns that dont work.
12 round mags don't help...
I heard the same thing, from Ian, in this video.
In the day I interviewed Para Marines and Marine Raider veterans. They liked the Reising for its utility. They also talked about group cleaning policy and parts interchangeability issues you brought up.
Every Marine ive spoken to that was issued a Riesing said they were absolutely shit, they would rather heft the extra weight of the Thompson because it also ment a good weapon
My dad was in the 2nd Marines in WW2. Guadalcanal, Tarawa and Siapan. He carried this rifle. I asked him what he thought about it. He said, "Good enough," And if I wanted something else, once things got hot, there were plenty of other guns just laying around, next to the dead guys."
Aw love that humor.
I’ve got an original marine build!
It almost never has issues if you grind down the rear of the firing pin a few mm to prevent tip breakage and clean it every 300 rnds.
875rpm with Winchester whitebox. 4-5 inch groups at 100m on semi.
Must be a beauty to behold.
My grandpa was in the 2nd Para-marine battalion. They weren’t at Guadalcanal, but deployed to Bougainville. He carried a Garand there, and also at Iwo Jima after the unit was dissolved and he was reassigned to the 5th.
Funny, my Grampy served with the 5th at Iwo Jima. I can't imagine the shit they saw, bad enough he never talked about it to his kids or us grandchildren.
My grandpa didn’t have a problem talking about Iwo Jima…sort of. Their officer and NCO’s all got hit in the first two days…he wouldn’t really talk about that part. A few days later, he was leading a section on patrol as a 17 year old pfc. They got cut off by a machine gun nest, so he charged it to draw their fire while the rest of the guys escaped. They got out clean; he got out with half a 7.7 round that ricocheted stuck in his skull. It was still there even when I was a kid. That’s about the only story he’d be willing to share from Iwo Jima…and that’s just because we all knew about it already from the newspaper stories and the medal citations.
The tale of the Reising shows some of the reasons why extended military trials exist - because someone's been bitten by it in the past. It sounds as though with some relatively minor changes it could have been a really good fit for the purpose but it was a solid performer despite that.
They didn’t have time. It’s that simple. They did well to get them what they had in sufficient quantity.
In addition to modifying the design of the gun itself, the entire manufacturing process needed to be overhauled from the ground up to produce tightly toleranced interchangeable parts and proper quality control. In order for the gun to actually be combat-ready in 1941, they would've needed to start this whole process in like 1934, when nobody in America was really seriously concerned about a war yet. Not only did they not have time, if they had started appropriately early finding the funding to actually do everything right would've been almost impossible.
@@johndaniels1197
Then there’s the ‘unintended consequences’ aspect of any kind of revamp: ‘well, we fixed that, but now this other thing is screwed as a result’.
So at the end of the day it seems to me they did the right thing by sticking with what they had.
@@jamessimpson4577 The right thing would've been to get properly re-armed with modern weapons during the interwar years so that crap like this doesn't happen. Short-sightedness and budget pinching stopped that.
Even the most rugged and proven designs would struggle in the conditions of the Pacific war.
The Reising epitaph should be "I coulda been a contender!" It had a lot of good points. It just needed a couple years of rigorous testing and tweaking to make it more reliable, and it didn't have that time.
Same epitaph the Johnson 1941 could have had.
It might have been able to be better than the Thompson, but that is a pretty low bar.
The cheap mass-produced guns (such as the M3) would have replaced it still.
Shades of the SA80.
@@scottpeters371 The Machine gun or the rifle?
I've always liked the Reising - I really think it could've been a nice gun with a bit more R&D, particularly with how it field strips.
Sturdier mags with stronger feed lips would have been a huge improvement and not too hard to do.
Ever hold a grease gun mag? Built like a tank!
The Reising really is the perfect example of why guns that work great in the civilian context don't always measure up to being pressed into military context. Many people question why new firearms technology can take decades to go from commercially available to military adoption, and the Reising is a great example of what happens when a design that isn't fully matured and hardened for rough use is dragged into combat.
Been playing a lot of Enlisted recently and I love how it has many of the lesser known guns that saw action in WW2, including the Reising. It's had me revisiting a lot of the Forgotten Weapons videos.
My dad was issued one of those when he started working for corrections in the late 70s. The M50 was their "wall" gun
This is crazy. I was just watching The Pacific last night and caught sight of an M50. I immediately searched for a video on it, and couldn’t find anything good. God bless this channel.
Gotta say I love gun history and how surprisingly small the gun world is. I have a H&R 999 and seeing the Reising magazine learning they manufactured Reising SMGs, FALs and M14s it's neat to say the least.
I have the 22 trainer version of this. Serial number “002” and it’s clearly in the prototype stage
Its slightly different than the later leatherneck rifles, the stocks dint fit, and the magwells are not interchangeable
Next time Ian comes up to film in Canada id be happy to make it available.
@@Chris_Garman It’s a historical artifact, and it isn’t scary looking.
@@drrisen-9442 history doesnt matter to the lawmakers here anymore. This generation will be the last to own any handguns barring a change in law by subsequent governments. This includes artifacts from the wars.
Your grandfather may have taken it off a nazi during the liberation of the Netherlands, or off juno beach. Your kid can’t inherit it. Either it gets welded up or smelted down.
Its an attack on Americangun culture bogeynen directed at the most law abiding segment of the Canadian population as a theatrical vote grab from uninformed voters.
Email him!
@@Chris_Garman it's an old .22lr rifle with a proprietary magazine. The Canadian government doesn't go after those, even with the new BS laws they've put in place recently they're still safe
Years ago I worked for a police department that had three of these M-50s........but only had two 12 round magazines. Our chief carried one of the guns and one of the magazines in the trunk of his car. That left two guns in the arms room with only a single 12 round magazine between them. Ah.....the good ole days!
There's no story I love more than legends about some beancounter O-7 deciding to cut magazine sizes down to 'reduce ammunition consumption'.
Which is a good way to reduce personnel costs, because once combat is over, you will definitely have fewer personnel left.
Your M55 video is what introduced me to your channel. Thanks for the years of great content, Ian!
When I was a little kid I remember those being sold in The Shotgun News for $295. All NFA rules applied of course.
$485+S&H ain't bad for a slice of history!
I have a 1955 edition of American Rifleman and they had everything from johnson rifles to gewher 43's for like $50-$80 and even a British contract 1911 in .455 webley for only $30. Theres so many cool guns in there that are so expensive today, like that $30 1911 is only $332 in todays money which youd never see a gun like that go for anymore
@@ethanwiley7605 I remember thinkin $295 was crazy because between the tax stamp, sales tax and dealer fees the price was more than doubled.
@@ethanwiley7605 I inherited a British 1911 many years ago. I foolishly sold it because .455 Webley Auto brass was nearly impossible to find in the pre internet days.
In 1994, I bought a Mk. II Sten for $700. J&G had a couple Reisings for $400. Wish I'd bought one of those, too!
I bought my Reising M50 in 1990. It was one of the last ones made in 1957, the year I was born. It came with the 12 round magazine and 12 round magazine housing. I replaced the magazine housing with a 20 round magazine housing. The 30 round magazines were made by a guy named Ken Christy in the early 90’s. They are good magazines, I have three of them and they fit in the M3 grease gun 3 mag pouch. I like my Reising. It has a distinctive sound while shooting. Just a unique SMG.
Ive also got a ‘57 and some Ken Christies also. They work great! Ive got an extra barrel too, I have a secret dream of putting my Omega can on it sone day. Have you ever considered it or heard anyone doing so?
@@Inflorescensse No I have a can on my M10/45.
The best part of waking up isn’t Folgers coffee, it’s Forgotten Weapons with Ian.
Another fun fact, model 60's were also used in combat being acquired for the marines. There are a few pics out there showing marines carrying model 60's, and at least two different marines carrying model 60's with the barrel sawn off.
Another fun fact is if you want an additional mag and want something more than 20 rounds, 45 ACP UZI mags both original and reproduction will work in a Reising if you drill a new mag lock hole. The .45 UZI mags are based on the Reisings mags. That's also why you see aftermarket 30 round mags.
My department (Mass State Police) used the M60 semi auto carbine for many years, until the 1970s. They also used the Thompson and the M1 carbine.
Being a blue costume wearing gun grabber who has suckled at the teats of the taxpayers since his first day at the academy is not something you should be proud of.
I know the VA State Police had at least one actual M50 at some point. I know because I got a call from the ATF wanting to know why a dealer in NV was trying to do a transfer for one to a customer when their records showed it as ours. Fortunately we were able to figure it out and ATF approved the transfer. It seems when the ATF rules came down, someone at the state police registered it with the ATF not realizing that it had already been sold and whoever bought it, also registered it during the amnesty so it got double registered and no one caught it until then.
Thanks Ian. That was interesting.
My Dad was on Turnstile Duty at Bremerton during WWII where he was trained on and equipped with a Reising.
.
A good friend of mine has one and it's one of the most controllable and accurate SMG I've shot. He has two of the 20 round mags and two of the twelve round mags. We still manage to go through a gallon bucket of my reloads pretty quick on a range day with it.
I am lucky enough to own a Reising M50 and it is one of the most fun guns to shoot. I have one 20 round magazine and five of the 12 rounders. The only malfunctions I have ever had is out of two of the 12 round mags having worn springs. People forget that most weapons at the time had a mag capacity of 5 or 10 rounds. In semi, 12 rounds out of this being used like a semi-auto carbine would have probably seemed like decent capacity. The M1 Carbine only carried 15 rounds and would probably have been seen as filling a similar niche'
I've got a couple of American Rifleman issues from WW II and one of them has an article on the Reising. There is also a full page "add" for it that says "Putting big red holes in little yellow men."
For instance the norwegian sea home guard used it until the mid 60s and it was quite popular among them because of its accuracy🙂
In 1979 some of the GSA/FPS units pulled in to serve at the Ft. Indiantown Gap refugee center arrived with Reisings and Thompsons because they had been told to bring them (for unknown reason). After a week or two the guns were sent back to the different regions they came from and were probably destroyed in the 80s when FPS began torching weapons it felt weren't needed anymore.
Love my M50. Mines part of the 3rd Marine Corps contract and it’s a transitional model based off features. I have the best results with 20 round mags. Every 12 round and repro 30s I’ve had feeding issues
In the 1970's, my father was a police officer in Durham NC. He told me that the armory still had several of the 50 style Reising machine guns and he was able to shoot a mag. through one. He said it worked fine.
That video on the M55 was the only reason I noticed a certain .22 rifle on consignment at my LGS a few years back. The rifle was in a rack with the top side facing away, and I noticed the odd semi oval hole in the bottom of the forestock. I did a double take and thought hmmm, I've seen that before somewhere....It turned out to be an H&R - Reising Model 65, built for the Marines as a trainer for the M1 Garand in 44-45. Mine is unfortunately a late enough example (8000 range serial #) that it is not likely to have been actually issued to the Marines, but the gun is absolutely identical to those that were.
5:50 Small factual correction, the Model 60 had an 18.25" barrel, not 16". The NFA wasn't modified to allow 16"-barreled title I rifles until the early 50's.
Lmao I love that Ian didn't even attempt to pronounce 'Worcester' (also spelled wrong as "WORCFSTER") when reading the markings
Sounds like they made over 100k of them so that's not a small amount really, especially for Mr Riseing at $2 a throw; 200 grand was a heck of a lot of dosh in the 1940s. IIRC the coast guard kept these for many years and was quite happy with them. Prisons were the other big user.
200 grand is almost $3.3 million in todays money when adjusted for inflation, so I’d say he was living nicely
Considering all that I knew of this firearm prior to now was Leon Uris' book "Battle Cry" I am grateful for the schooling.
My local RSL here in Australia has one of these in display, I always thought they looked quite iconic to the pictures of US Marines they also had.
One of the additional uses for these guns was equipping guerrilla units. There's at least one picture of Iliff David Richardson (of "They Were Expendable" and "American Guerrilla in the Philippines" fame) with a Model 50.
We have one of these in the armory at the police department I work at. Really neat piece of history we bring out on range days from time to time. I guess the department has had it for a really long time that was procured from the military. It still fires on auto. Sweet piece of history.
The gun quickly became despised by front-line Marines, and Lieutenant Colonel Merritt A. Edson, Commander, 1st Marine Raider Battalion, ordered that his troops' Reisings be flung into Guadalcanal's crocodile-infested Lunga River, as his troops resorted to reliable bolt-action Springfield rifles.
Nice to see Ian make a video on this gun again.
There must be some sort of alternate reality where the Reising and Johnson became the US's ubiquitous WW2 guns instead of the Garand and Thompson.
Couldn't wait to see you review it!
I have heard that some modest numbers of these M50 had been paradropped (by Polish 1586 Special Operation Squadron or other allis units) as supplies for Polish underground Home Army during WWII.
I had read something similar, a very long time ago. I do believe the Polish underground got these M 50's
Reising Gunner: this 12 round magazine sucks!
M1903 Rifleman: Uh... only 5 rounds here!
Atleast its 5 rifle rounds and not 12 pistol rounds. *shrugs*
@@Wanaskiwin, true but most combat takes place in ranges under 100 meters. At that range both rounds are effective. I’m sure the operators of both rifles would’ve preferred one of those Hollywood never runs out of ammunition magazines.
Ian, very in-depth as usual...lots of great information, cheers from Florida, Paul
I appreciate the commentary in this video I've often pondered why a light weight self loading carbine with an exposed action and marginal reliability was a recipe for success with the m1 carbine but despised with the reising
Nice looking gun; shame they didn't get a chance to iron out the creases before throwing it in at the deep end. Really looking forward to tomorrow to see how it handles.
Very nice presentation, interesting information. Thank you for your time posting this excellent content.
Never heard of this gun before. Thank you for an excellent video, and I'm definitely gonna see that shooting video.
12446 isn't that early. I have a 6xx serial # Reising. ;)
One thing about these Reisings, it is known for is the firing pin breaking due to it being bent between the hammer and bullet primer. There is flex firing causing metal fatigue and the pins would eventually break. Modification (modern modification someone did to Reisings) is to convert the firing pin to be a inertia driven firing pins. This is done by filing the back of the firing pin so it is a tad shorter and stop the compression between the hammer and the primer. The hammer would hit the pin and cause it to thrust forward, setting off the round. At no time the front and back has contact at the same time.
Hope you make a video on the Marlin Camp Carbine some day. This one loooked pretty similar at first glance!
was always a little fascinated with the reising its just a cool looking gun i guess esp the model 55 with the bad wire stock
After the wr, H&R took a lot of their barrels for the Reising gun and made .22cal bolt action single shots out of them. We had one in our hardware store that I got. Had a Williams peep sight on it. Boring the barrel made for .45 out to only .22 made it quite a nail driver. It was only single shot bolt action, but it sure shot well!
Thank you for giving this unique sub gun some love,given the circumstances of its history,it saved more marines than we will ever know!
I knew a retired Alabama State Trooper who had some tales to tell about a Reising he was issued in the fifties back when one trooper might work alone covering three or four counties.
He said it was a great attention getter when called for the Friday night fights at the local tonks.
Tonks=the basis for honky tonks minus the honkys
The Reising M 50 was also issued to OSS in Europe. My father, who was 82nd Airborne assigned to the OSS said the Reising was a piece of crap.
When I was on the JROTC rifle team in the late 90s, we had many different brands of 22 single shot rifles in our armory. They were all pretty old, and starting to become unreliable. The Harrington and Richardson models however always worked the best, and rarely ever had a malfunction.
How does a single shot 22 malfunction?
@@CrustygunsLight strikes, cases not ejecting and getting stuck, basically any malfunction that isn't a failure to feed can still happen to a single shot.
It's looks alot better than the folding stock version!
Great video, you really got into the detail about the rust and interchangeability issues.
crazy, I literally just learned about this weapon yesterday and today it shows up here
So that is the weapon that Sgt. Basilone played by Seda slung over his shoulder in the Pacific!!! Right after the Lt. gets shot in the face. I always wondered what kind of weapon that was. I really appreciate all the knowledge you have passed on Ian!!!! You have the best job in the universe!!! Thank you!!
I read gunners glory and the first story in the book is about a machine gunner on Guadalcanal, he is the team leader if I remember right and talked about how he loved his reising despite the negative feedback a lot of other marines gave it.
Thanks again Ian.
Once again you have brought us another very interesting piece of history.
I want a ruger pistol caliber carbine ..the older I get the more I like traditional stocks..I started on shotguns as most kids in my area for bird and deer hunting on a budget so a small traditional stock jst feels right..I wish it was more common to have an AR like that but I know not without piston operation...love ya Ian ❤️👑
You might already be aware but if you want a traditional stock on an ARish platform, lookup the FiteLite SCR
Seconded on the SCR.
I've always wanted to build a marksman style fitelite, and i'm in a free state.
Thanks for an entertaining, informative video! This was indeed my understanding; a good gun pressed into roles for which it was not intended. A 12rd mag didn't help its popularity either.
I'm looking forward to the shooting video tomorrow.
This is a weapon I would use primarily as a carbine in semi auto, only using the full auto in the extreme situations (pretty much like I did with my M-4). It would certainly be a handy and effective weapon in CQB jungle combat.
I had the privilege to shoot a transferable M-50. It was VERY pleasant to shoot and pretty accurate out to 50 yards. It slower cyclic rate made it sound kinda like, "chug-chug-chug-chug-chug". It also shot a really tight pattern. Hitting an angled steel plate at 25 yards with a 5 shot burst, the rounds literally would hit the ground in front of the plate in a symmetrical left to right pattern every time. COOL STUFF! ;)
Just watched the video with the disassembly of the M55. With that great big sliding hammer thing, it's almost a semi-closed bolt, I reckon the hammer adds a fair bit of mass to the bolt.
Any way, I think the basic action's realy neat.
I'd like to relate a story told to me by a veteran of the ETO of WWII. He was a US Army truck driver that was originally issued a M50 Reising. He loved it. Later, they took his Reising away and gave him a Thompson. He was not a happy camper. I could see why a truck driver would prefer the Reising having fired and hefted both.
The book "Battle Cry" by Leon Uris is a fictional story, but it uses many experiences that the author experienced as a Marine in WW2. He documents the Reising being issued to radiomen and their experiences with it. It was clearly not well liked even before entering combat, and the gun comes in for a lot of hate from the (fictional) characters. It was a fine second line arm, but was really not suitable for combat conditions. A 12 round magazine is clearly not of much use in a combat submachine gun, but it's fine for guards, boarding parties, MP units, rear security troops, etc. When kept clean the guns actually worked well, but it was not suitable for the role it was originally handed.
I remember seeing it on the TV show "Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea". . . .
Question for a Q&A- Resing or Thompson, which would Ian rather have in battle.
Indeed! An important question.
Can he vote for none of the above?
@@wingracer1614 No, the question is which of those 2 only.
@@ketchman8299 Then he's not going to be happy answering you. I can tell you what he will say. Of just those two, he'll take the thompson but would much prefer an MP40 or Beretta
@@wingracer1614 Sir, when I want YOUR opinion on Ian's thoughts and preference's I will address that question to you. Until then I will continue to adress my questions on Ian's thoughts in a manner such as I previously did. Thank you for your concern.
As a weapon, it was good starting point; all it needed was several of cycles of 'tuning' it to iron out the worst issues (IMO). Unfortunately, in wartime, that's not always an option...
And yeah, it _looks_ like an 'early / pre-WWII' SMG (wood furniture edition), and definitely lighter than it's Euro / Slav cousins.
I like the Reising. As much like the M3 grease gun. It's problems could have been easily fixed and improved upon with further development. But alas it never went there. Still neat though
I really like the idea of the closed bolt system. Just the dirt factor sells it for me. The accuracy is just an added plus. I like the recesses charging handle, and if it had the ejection port on top it would be really cool. A modern one, with a ploy stock, an improved trigger group and safety selector, and taking Sig M17/18 mags in 32 rounds would be a great 9mm sub machine gun.
My dad carried the paratrooper folding stock model stateside and said they were absolute junk. Constant jamming, small magazine. He loved his Johnson Rifle though.
Hopefully we can see some range time with this. I'd love to hear your opinion of the compensator. Probably nit picky and of very little concern but that compensator design seems like it would allow easier ingres of dirt and such.
Those ribs on the compensator break REAL easy when you shoot them. May even happen to Ian tomorrow!
Very nice work as always, been looking at these for a while and you've really got me thinking about a few things that I didn't know, good entry level class 3 weapon compared to other's, maybe one day......
The M55 Reising video was my first Forgotten Weapons video...
Thank you for this video, playing the marauders game, this gun exists and I end up arguing about this gun constantly.
I'd love to see you run a match with a model 60 or 50
Later the Guide Lamp Division of GM came up with the M3 on 12 December 1942, and later the M3A1 in 1945, and the rest was history.
" Can't do a mag dump with burst fire ."
Reising ; " Hold my beer .."
The first to the fight and the last to procurement. Semper Fi!
Love this Gun in the Pacific campaign for enlisted.
Im usually on the reseaving end of it, so I dont like it as much
@@laski-salonen2573 Japanese SMGs are really good less recoil to.
FINALLY!!!! Ive been waiting it for years
Hell of a thing not telling them not to mix match parts ! But still that charging system is just begging for mud .
I was surprised to see a WWII Marine SMG I have never seen or heard of before . I enjoyed the video .
First to the fight - if you don't count the 3 years the other allies have already been fighting for. :)
What took them so long to win?
i know its flawed and the tommy gun is the star but ive always wanted a Reising
they "used to be" the "affordable" NFA weapon in the 1980s and i lusted after them but never could get enough money together when one was for sale..
now i cant even glance at the price of one without getting sick in my mouth.
The NFA needs to fall so all machineguns go down to their actual value (scarcely more than semi autos). Your story is just further proof that the NFA is designed to keep autos only in the hands of the wealthy.
Yep. Current prices are around $9.5-10.5k. A few years ago they were $6-6.5k.
@@vitis65 when i was eyeing them i think they were in the 1k range though my memory isnt what it was in the 80s
no interchangeable parts, prone to dirt jamming, complicated take down, weak finish=forgotten weapon
It can’t be a machine gun, it doesn’t even have the shoulder thing that goes up.
In the 1980's there was a large quantity of M-50 carbines released by the Illinois Prison system. These were sold by a fellow by the name of Perry. They were $125.00 each plus the $200 tax stamp to own one. We had about five in circulation in my area. They were an interesting gun but as said, were frail in many respects and difficult to take apart to clean. Magazines were always hard to find even back then. The 20 round especially. Our guns were Parkerized with oil finish on the stocks. Some had property markings. None had any Military markings. Curious thing with these types of firearms. Whenever we sold a weapon, it had to go up at least $200 in value to recoup the tax cost. So now the $125.00 gun is $325.00 for the next transferrer. As can be seen, the cost goes up rather fast. If it was a truly much sought after weapon, then the cost could soar. New M-60 GPMG from Maremount Saco in those days was under a $1,000 each for dealers to buy. The Golden Age of Class 3 weapons in the USA was 1975 to 1986.
The person that ends up buying this weapon will 100% enjoy it. It is a fine implement of freedom.
Really is a shame there wasn't more refinement into this lil guy. It's easy to forget current ar 15s have essentially 60 years of r&d up to this point, and it's a superior weapon system because of that.
Ah, the Reising. A decent choice for space pirates in the 1990s.
Hm?