M1916 Fedorov: Russia's First Assault Rifle?
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- Опубликовано: 20 дек 2018
- / forgottenweapons
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I have been trying to get my hands on Fedorov M1916 rifle for a while, and I finally had the opportunity at the NFC, part of the British Royal Armouries. The Fedorov was designed in the years just before World War One, and originally chambered for a proprietary 6.5mm cartridge (also designed by Fedorov) and using a fixed magazine. It was a development of the understanding of infantry firepower that came from the Russo-Japanese War, although Czar Nicholas II did not think it was a useful type of rifle. Once the Great War changed attitudes of many military figures, the Fedorov saw a comeback. Inspired by the tactical concept of the French Chauchat automatic rifle, Fedorov fitted the rifle with a 25-round detachable box magazine and rechambered it for the 6.5mm Arisaka cartridge (which Russia had supply of by way of the UK). In this new format, a small number were produced and issued before the Russian Revolution caused the nation to leave the war.
Fedorov and his team were established at the Kovrov Arsenal (originally built and equipped by the Danish Madsen firm to make light machine guns, but that plan never reached completion). There they perfected the production tooling for the guns, and produced them form 1921 until 1925, making about 3200 in total. They saw service during the Russian Civil War, and were apparently well liked despite a reputation for being a bit finicky and delicate. They were pulled out of service and warehoused in the late 1920s, although they would be reissued during the Winter War with Finland.
Overall, the Fedorov is a remarkably good rifle for its time period. Had further development been possible or encouraged, it could probably have been simplified substantially, although history has shown that there was no true future for recoil-operated military shoulder rifles. The tactical concept behind the design was excellent, and rather ahead of its time. The idea of equipping each man with effectively a portable machine gun would not see true successful implementation until the German Sturmgewehr, but Russia could have beaten them to the punch by some 25 years had the circumstances been a bit different.
Many thanks to the Royal Armouries for allowing me to film and disassemble this very rare rifle! The NFC collection there - perhaps the best military small arms collection in Western Europe - is available by appointment to researchers:
royalarmouries.org/research/n...
Contact:
Forgotten Weapons
PO Box 87647
Tucson, AZ 85754
1910-s: 6.5 mm bullet for assault rifles.
2010-s: 6.5 mm bullet for assault rifles.
Fedorov: "Well, this aged well."
But isn't the 6.5 Creedmore more an alternative to the 7.62 NATO instead of the 5.56 NATO according to US doctrine?
US Army is currently testing rifles chambered in 6.8mm as potential replacements for the M4/M16.
@@wairong Yeah advances in body armour have made battle rifles relevant again. 5.56 can't penetrate at longer ranges (i.e. beyond 200 meters) very well, but full power rounds can.
@@someguy3766 Wouldn't say it makes battle rifles relevant exactly, IIRC the army is still looking for an intermediate cartridge, only one of higher calibre.
@@moekitsune incorrect, if you look at the Sig Spear (the only NGSW submission that has any chance of even being adopted even in some niche capacity), it's an AR-10 sized Sig MCX that takes SR-25 magazines. Sig has said they intend to bring the Spear to the civilian market in .308 and 6.5 Creedmoor. Frankly, the US should forget about 6.8mm running at 85k PSI and focus on switching to a modified 6.5 Creedmoor that maybe goes up to 70k psi with a faster burning powder for shorter barrels and creating effective AP bullets for the cartridge.
"The immediate threat of the Germans has passed ... for the moment." Ian, you can't just condense European history in one sentence.
As it turns out he can 😂
Started with Rome, ends in 20XX
Xw a g
Hey hey hey NOT fun *ducks in corner, cries lonley eating potatoes
You can
"Yeah I got an M16
an M1916"
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E
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That short pause in speech near the end where Ian obviously considers his chances of making it to the range with the gun in hand without being tackled by the museum security... I feel you, man.
Igor Fajzulin the only thing i want is to see a video of these shooting, but due to their tendency for parts breakage and all the little bits in them any collectors that own one are keeping them safeguarded from shooting
its at 28:53
@@TriggoViggo thanks
@@dawsongranger4940 I know your comment is a year old but if it was legal/readily accessible to get the dimensions of these guns I guarantee you’d see a replica tomorrow, at least I know I would however you can’t even find dimensions for a karabiner 98 for example
@@drquack4213 minute or so before then
*tips fedorov
God damn it you beat me to it.
M'therland
@@kblam1591 Pay ian enough money and you get the videos he's finished early.
God damn it, this is not fair! :D
m'kosak
"Things went really well... And then the WWI broke out" - 20th century in a nutshell
Ryan Ewald The USA was the only true winner of WW1.
@@DemetriusAniketos Honestly, the Colonial Powers would have likely fallen anyway. Britain and France's colonies would still fight for independence, Russia would have most likely become a less monarchical(?) nation, and the newly-united Germany would still want to show that it was something to be reckoned with. It just would have been more gradual. Even then, Japan would still be continuing imperialistic efforts in the Pacific. One worse possiblity is that this timeline's equivalent of a World War would have been much, much messier because they might have continued using old tactics with new technologies and not learned the lessons of WWI, which was that war was hell and leaves scars that might not fade.
But that's just my personal hypothesis. Someone with an actual history degree would be able to create a much more accurate timeline.
@@mrcrecer1312 that is pure propaganda.
@@DemetriusAniketos America certainly took less of a hit than anyone else because we didnt do as much fighting, but none of the primary components of the war from early on (Serbia, Austro-Hungary, Germany, France, Britain, Russia) left that war better off. They got into a war over something small and irrelevant, and once the reality of the war set in they couldnt just let it all be for nothing, they felt they had to see it through. I understand the mentality, but look where it got them. It took terrifyingly too long for the world leaders to get tired of the slaughter.
@@DerricktheWhite nah thats actualy truth
23:52 "This is far superiour to Mauser self-loading rifles. Even some of the guns US was testing in 1920s are gigantic dumpster fires compared to that one." That's an extremely high praise.
Museum curator:
“So you’re going to totally disassemble the gun?”
Ian:
“Yep”
Curator:
“Ummmm... are you sure?”
Ian:
“Yep”
Ian: "It's a little finicky to pull back together..."
Curator: *has a heart attack*
Curator; you do know how to put it back together?
Ian; I'll figure it out after I take it apart.
You know, in my head canon, Ian just saunters in, does his show while *completely* disassembling the gun... Then just strolls out with the parts on the table for them to put back together!
Not once have I seen a single time where he reassembled the gun, and frankly... I find i that part the more entertaining! Taking things apart is easy, but putting back together *correctly* is harder!
C'mon Ian!! I want to see you put it back together, rack the action/slide/etc then confidently put it down.
At that point, the curator began to sweat profusely
The fun thing is, the curator is called Jonathan, and is basically an English version of "Forgotten Weapons" Ian.
Amusingly, the photo of this gun on Wikipedia is this exact gun. Rare seems like too small a word.
Uncommon?
Isn't that fascinating. Was about to write the same after looking at the Wiki page and noticing that the scratches on the gun's wooden furniture looked exactly the same. 'Rare' really is quite an understatement.
Legendary variant Uraaaaaaah!
@@afrog2666 it aint tho?
I guess I shouldn't hold my breath waiting to see a mud test of this one.
Fedorov was a genius engineer. He was a perfectionist; he made it so complicated that nobody could copy it. The rear sight is genuine and did anyone notice the fluted barrel? Great presentation.
Although if where full production it would of necessary needed to be way less complicated. Some of the stuff it looks like could of been easily simplified.
Федоров был менеджером директором завода ......винтовку конструировали другие люди имена которых ни где не упоминают ......после Революции 1917 года Федоров работал начальником военной промышлености и ни чего не конструировал .....он не конструктор он менеджер .
This reads like the business card scene from American Psycho. "Let's see Vladimir Fedorov's rifle. . ."
@@questionablekumquats4437Oh my god, it even has a watermark…
@@user-ed3og3xb4s Нет, это не так. Федоров талантливейший конструктор, достаточно прочесть его труды по типу «Основания устройства автоматического оружия» что бы это понять. И помимо этого он написал множество интересной литературы, например "История винтовки" или "В поисках оружия", последняя, кстати, как раз о его изысканиях в инженерных вопросах, об изучении зарубежных образцов, человек буквально посетил пол мира ради этого.
Wow it almost looks like a cold war era rifle. This was sooo ahead of its time
I have found a scan of a 1923's Soviet book on the avtomat (I.Sverchkov. "Fedorov's Avtomat", ed. M.Envald, Moscow, 1923 (of course, in Russian)), and I have several things to add to the Ian's speech:
1) On the implied strategy/tactics for the avtomat:
Paragraph 99 of the book says that the gun should be used by teams of "one avtomat-gunner and 1-2 assistants".
Paragraph 100 translates as follows:
"Thus, the avtomat, being a weapon as mobile, but more powerful than a rifle, can excel as a replacement for riflemen, and can perform almost all tasks in close fire-fight, but should be used not so much for hitting small single targets requiring greater accuracy, as for densely firing at whole groups of the enemy, at local lines [entrenchments] occupied by the enemy, at areas of its concentration and so on."
So, obviously, it is more likely that the Fedorov's avtomat was meant to be more of a "very light machinegun" than "a rifle with full-auto fire for emergencies".
2) The sight is graduated in hundreds of paces (practically synonymous to arshins) - see, e.g. par.93.
3) Although the gun is named "Fedorov" in English, the more phonetically correct spelling would be "Fyodorov", where "yo" is read as one sound, close to German "ö".
*Fiodaraf.
the philosophy for assault rifles was different back then, the auto fire wasnt for emergencies but to be able to perform like an smg,at range a rifle, while closing the gap an mg for suppression (which you give yourself) and then at close a bullet hose with superior firepower, thats where the whole assault in assault rifle comes from
Константин, я думаю, что Вы справедливо акцентируете внимание на тактике применения автомата Федорова. Самое совершенное оружие не поможет в бою, если не будет отработана специальная тактика, позволяющая эффективно использовать преимущества этого оружия для победы. Однако, мне кажется, что Вы не правы, когда ссылсетесь на публикацию Сверчкова как на отработанную инструкцию по тактике применения автомата Федорова. В то время высказывались различные предположения о том, как можно было бы эффективно использовать это оружие, и упомянутое Вами - это лишь одно из многих таких предположений. Собственно, автомат Федорова и был вскоре снят с вооружеия во многом потому, что для этого оружия специальной ниши в тогдашней системе вооружений не нашлось, тактика его эффективного применения так и не было придумана и отработа, а попытки его практического использования в различных специальных подразделениях давали отрицательные результаты и отзывы. Более того, немцы, у которых подобное оружие в массовом порядке появилось только в конце ВОВ, тоже ведь не успели отработать тактику, при которой такое оружие давало бы им реальные преимущества в бою. /Не думаю, что это моё замечание стоит переводить на английский./
Since we're apparently delving into the realm of linguistics here, it should be noted that the more grammatically correct English phrase is "a 1923 Soviet book," rather than "a 1923's Soviet book." English also does not generally employ an article before a personal name, as in the phrase "the Ian's speech."
1 When this book was written, there was no experience of using such weapons.
2 Fedorov not was able get more weak patron (bullets). He used what he had
1 Когда писалась данная книга, не было опыта использования подобного оружия.
2 Фёдоров не смог достать более слабого патрона(пули). Он использовал то что было.
Fedorov actually wanted to have intermediate cartridge, but it was hard to pull out whole production of something different at those times, so he switched to arisaka cartridge as temporary solution.
Do you have sources for that
@@VonLedigsberg I doubt I could find it again, just read some article about Fedorov some years ago. He actually had a theoretic works where he write about it.
@@VonLedigsbergоб этом вроде говорилось в советской энциклопедии оружия для вооружённых сил СССР.
Но откуда там эта инфа- не знаю
Арисака - 6,5*50, патрон Федорова - 6,5*57, если он и хотел промежуточный патрон, то сначала надо было перейти на винтовочный патрон 6,5*57, но 1 мировая война и революция этому помешали. О его промежуточном патроне, я не слышал. Патрон Арисака был выбран конструктором по причине того, что его собственный патрон не попал в производство для испытания, промежуточных патронов еще по акту не было разработано, а на патронном заводе в Санкт-Петербурге производили 200000 штук в год 6,5*50, для имеющихся винтовок арисака.
According the Battlefield 1 DLC, there were thousands of these things.
Only in WW1&2 Era, there's only a few of these Rifles survived till this day.
32.000 produced few survived till today because scraps
DrJayy 3200 not 32000. the mosin nagant, they made 48 million of those things lol
It’s like all these recent numbskulls don’t understand what a joke is.
Yeah sadly they only made 3,200
Fedorov in 1913 created 27 cartridges, 6, 6,5 and 7 mm, case 3.66, 4.33 and 5.66 cm cub., light, medium and heavy bullets. Cartridges in 3.66 cm cub., 6x57, 6.5x57 and 7x57, with heavy bullets, have 7, 8.3 and 9.63 g weight, 966, 950.4 and 906.5 mps speed - in 800 mm barrel, and energy 3266, 3748 and 3957 Joules. Cartridges in 5.66 cm cub. 6 and 6.5 mm with heavy bullets 7 and 8.3 g weight, and maximum pressure 4000 atm (405 MPa), have speed 1075 and 1045 mps, and energy 4045 and 4532 Joules.
Created rifle in 7x57, with 10-round magazine, really good gun, but not produced.
In 1914-1916 Fedorov worked in 6.5x57, best cartridge. In 800 mm barrel this cartridge was more accuracy than 7.62x54R in ~50%. In 520 mm barrel of Avtomat this cartridge have speed 860 mps and energy 3069 Joules - true Tsarist's SCAR-H. But, in 1916-1929 produced in 6.5x50 cartridge - in Russia produced 6.5x50SR Arisaka, semi-rimmed 50.2-50.4 mm case, but, Fedorov created analogical cartridge, in rimless 50.8 mm case. I haven't data, what is cartridge produced in 1916-1929 to Avtomat.
In 1916 created true weapon family, assault rifle - 25-round boxed magazine, tactical hand, marxman rifle - 15-round boxed magazine, optical scope, maybe, tactical hand, and, maybe, bipods, and LMG - 50-round cilindrical magazine (used in Fedorov-Shpagin and Fedorov Degtyarev machine guns in 1920th) and bipods. Planned, making this guns in new plants in 1917-1919, but, two revolutions destroying this project.
Also, in 1916 maked 7.62x54R full-size rifle with 25-round Madsen magazine, i can't data, was full-auto or only semi-auto.
Recoil operation is reduce recoil to operator also. Possibly implemented in AN-94, but I'm not sure.
In an alternate universe this rifle is called the AF-16 and was the standard service rifle for the Imperial Russian Army until Kalashnikov came out with the AK-47.
I would imagine that this would be a cool DMR for modern combat or it was a full on combat rifle that the Imperial Russians would use or send to Proxy wars around the world.
Actually ak 47 could be different considering if they make this the standard rifle. The ak 47 would have to fire a similar size bullet to the Federov not the 7.62x39mm.
@@gerogyzurkov2259 nah, I'm pretty sure even with the tsarist in control, they would still have a second world war and the combat results from the federovs performance as well as encounters with the STG would probably force the Russians to change to an intermediate calibre. I mean the SVT was supposed to do the same but instead just influenced the SVD, the Federov would do the same, just influence a better gun or a updated model.
Before M16, AK-47 & Sturmgewehr 44 aka STG 44, Fedorov Autovmat it's the first ever assault rifle in the world
...Or it could be AFS-25 (significantly redesigned/modified in partnerrship with Simonov) and be the standard service rifle for the Red Army. Truly an unluckiest weapon ever.
9:00 Ian sounds so happy and it’s adorable
If this rifle isn't Russia's first assault rifle then Rasputin isn't Russia's greatest love machine.
It was a shame how both carried on
Rararasputin
Yay your comment is 1 year old and I'm only the third person how knows that reference.(also thank you for reminding of a song that I dont already have on my playlist)
He was big and strong and his eyes a flaming glow! Ra ra rasputin it was a shame how he carried on
@@jamesparrant7030 I'm pretty sure everyone got the reference.
If he every gets rounds to live firing one, I can see in my mind's eye Karl grabbing it and running off towards a distant wheel-barrow full of mud, to the fading sound of Ian's cries of "oh dear god NOOOOOooooo….. "
Gavin Davies best comment ever! 😆
It's russian. it's not even supposed to work without a pound of mud in the workings.
@@Ugly_German_Truths go watch them mud test AKs...its not pretty.
@@Ugly_German_Truths your username reflects your comment well
What's still interesting about the Fedorov is that it's cost to produce was 1060$ at the time, while the Madsen was 1760$ to produce
Whats madsen
@@uwuowo4856 The Madsen LMG was a danish light machine gun that was used in ww1 that used a 30 round magazine fed through the top, and was air cooled. By all accounts it was light enough to wield as a "assault rifle" if need be similar to a BAR or Avtomat
@@philstory2556 oh ok thz
Yeah the Russians used thousands of madsens but somehow thought that the less expensive more versatile fedorov wasn’t worth it
@@ieatmice751Madsen used the same cartridge as Mosin. For a country with ruined railroads, the Madsen was indeed far superior from a logistical point of view.
Incredible machining for the time. I am a Machinist and know what type of machines and tooling was around in the early twentieth century,simply amazing stuff thanks Ian.
We just got in a 1930's Pratt and Whitney Jig boring machine at our shop. They did stuff differently back then!
@@michaelw.6957
Pratt and Whitney is responsible for a staggering amount to Twentieth Century technology.
@@mazkact and 19th
@@bdkj3e Not really..
The biggest thing that I notice with the late 1800's to mid 1900's designs is that there was much more design creativity. Very elegant geometry solutions. That said, "tooling up" to make guns was no joke. Very specific machines made a small number of cuts on each part. The blessing and curse of modern manufacturing and engineering is that most designs cater to being able to be made on universal CNC machines out of pre-existing standard material stock. If you want to be impressed with 1800's-1920's machine work, look to the Swiss and the Swedes. While the design and final product was ahead of its time, this rifle is "typical" in the level of fit/finish for a Russian outfit, IMO.
Finally you came back to your first video. The circle is complete.
@@mmartinisgreat nay, this is only the beginning of a new era
@mixererunio and now the student is the master
This truly is FW New Game +
Alternative timeline: "The classic debate: The Thompson pattern vs The Fedorov pattern rifle."
Heikki Remes infinite funds mode?
More like "The AS-45 vs the M2 carbine"
Or, the BAR in a similar cartridge to the 6.5 Arisaka . Could be made lighter, would be more controllable, plus more ammo per pound. The M1 Garand may never have happened.
@@donjones4719 .25 Remington? It's one of the cartridges for Remington Model 8. Then there's the .30 Remington.
@@donjones4719 Browning if saw this he might have similarly thought that. He was still alive then after WW1 so alt history he could easily check other foreign designs for inspiration. If shown this, allowed to touch, and allowed to fire it. He would of been left an impression that he needed to improve the BAR very quickly.
Can you just imagine what it would cost to make this rifle in the US today? All of that machine work and wood work is incredible. So many separate fabricated parts. It took really talented machinists to manufacture rifles like this by hand. Wow. Great video Ian.
I would 100% conceal carry this if it came out today
'Gigantic garbage dumpster fires' Ah yes, I DID see you video on the Thompson Auto rifle.
The fedorov was way ahead of its time they even pulled it out of mothballs to use in the winter war with Finland it was loved by Finnish troops
@@joshualance6005
>Be me, elite soviet trooper in 1939
>Be handed state secret 10/10 weapon
>Some Finn rifleman stabs me, takes my gun and proceeds to kill my whole company with it.
@@Hemimike426 elite? Are you serious? When Russians has to fight with Finn's. All ready was hard time with Nazis. All power went spending on Nazis. Finn's kept own part in Leningrad history.
@@alexk2418 get your history right: Soviet Union attacked Finland because secret part of Molotov-Ribbentrop agreement allowed to do so. Nazis handed Finland to Stalin.
@@Sevensixtytwo. Yep that "agreement".... I didn't say who start and why. But if you ass exposed to "enemy". What you do? And Finn's had a chance. They didn't take that.. or you start pushing crap about " bad Russians"? And Nazis is better?
Russian Rifle, Danish Factory , American Machinery, Japanese Cartridge and a whole lot of mechanical stuff going on.
Very interesting weapon.
Auto fire when needed, hmm didn't they try with the M14 too? where some soldiers have full auto if needed.
M14 has auto but that is almost unusable even while laying down with bipod. Fedorov was supposed to be controllable and practical on automatic. 6,5 arisaka is far weaker cartridge than 7,62 NATO contributing to lower recoil and support hand pistol grip certainly helps to manage it.
Ian has a recent video of firing M14 on auto if you haven't seen how brutal it is.
@@Salesman9001 I've have seen it , I was just comparing how the two ideas were similar neither one turned out.
I know about 7.62 I was qualified on the M60 Machine Gun. You know I wouldn't mind taking a turn firing a full auto M14 just once. lol
@@bikecommuter24 I'm qualified with KK62 and wouldn't mind getting to magdump with M14. Trip to Vegas and shooting all the harder to acquire funs is on my bucket list.
Salesman9001 👍
@@bikecommuter24 You know,the two of you could easily arrange to visit Vegas together. Tell some war stories,shoot the M14,go have a drink and a bite to eat. Also one of those Thompsons with the really big drum magazines. No doubt other items would occur to one or both of you.
Heading home with some great memories.
You know its special when ian has the blue gloves
What an impressive and unique design, especially for being made so early. Respect for Fedorov
Is it an assault rifle? Technically no...effectively yes.
battle rifle. ar-10, 40 years early.
Anything can be "effectively" an assault rifle. Not everything is technically an assault rifle. This is most surely a battle rifle, albeit a very early one.
I'd say automatic rifle. It's used as portable fire support, so like a BAR.
You must work in the California government!
Chubby Catfish No it was ised as a assault rifle in 1916
When I saw the Fedorov...I had a nosebleed..
Like, GODDAMN! THAT FEDOROV IS AS GOOD AS IT GETS!
You ain't seen nothing yet.
@@dchil15 Ya might be goddamn right.. :3
he General white,and red just did not executed,there is a very probable opinion is that all guns Degtyareva it designs,but cannot give him your name
@DrIvanRadosivic Instead Medics decide to go Rambo and not reviving people with the Federov.
G series FAL's are way better. But yes the Fedorov is pretty damn good too.
The wear on the wood and forward grip are so cool. Never seen an old gun that looks like this unique beauty
It's great, that there is something like British Royal Armouries and somebody like Ian. Otherwise me - Russian would never have a chance to have a look at the internals of Fedorov's "Avtomat". Can't imagine any Russian museum allowing anybody to grab and disassemble their guns. Our gun channels have to deal with deactivated guns (and it often means that you cant even normally disassemble those) or mass-size models when talking about historic/antic firearms.
On the other hand the last gun produced was the SA80, 40 years ago. There are probably better ways to foster excellence
Thank you national firearms center, Leeds. Thank you Ian, thank you patreon guys and gals. This is truly an incredible video and we owe all of you for making this possible!
The guy literally spends his life running all over the world recording RUclips videos about guns. Not even shooting them the a lot of the time even.
And, he's making a [presumably pretty comfortable] living at it on little more than pure and utter donations voluntarily sent from all walks of life from all over the world alone. It's incredible!
I don't have much of any faith in your average random ["1st world"] human being at this point, we as an international collective 'society' have seemingly maximized how selfish & self centered the average person can be/is any more.
However - at least we know that there's still an independent collective of us out here that truly appreciate someone's earnest efforts and dedication to researching, learning more about these objects and the regions & time periods that they left their [pretty fucking sad, in the bigger picture] mark on throughout our history. And, the fact that Ian puts in so much work just to disseminate this information - for FREE.
And, obviously this goes without saying for Karl & the InRange collab too(I really need more theoretical commando lever gun!), and also Othais & Co at C&Rsenal as well, since he too left a legitimate career to earn a living giving information away for free on the internet(LOL).
There may not be a lot of hope left, but at least there's enough for firearms tech & history
Thank you indeed!
[/ranty_mcranterson]
Given it's proximity to the magazine, I wonder if the forward "pistol grip" was actually intended more as just a "magazine guard" to prevent the shooter from applying pressure to the magazine as he is trying to control the gun, and/or reduce the likelihood of the magazine getting knocked on things as the gun is being carried around.
Not likely. This isn't the first gun to have a forward vertical grip.
He did say the gun was upgraded at one point from an internal magazine to the detachable one you see now. Perhaps this is an early rifle and the foregrip wasn’t obstructed until the detachable magazine.
I wonder if it isn't a bit of both, a forward pistol grip installed to keep the user from gripping the magazine or mag release while firing. I would be interested in seeing a previous iteration or one of the original designs to see if this was added because some snuffy grabbed the mag catch by accident and unloaded his own gun. Kind of a "Oops, how to we stop that from happening"
Given that it's more or less a full length rifle I think it would hold at a deceptively comfortable distance
Bruh, russians were using the tactical C-clamp grip before it was cool
In the Russian Empire, the marking of the sight was marked with "steps". One "step" was 0.71m
I find it fascinating that once a certain point was reached small arms design became generally less and not more complicated. I guess it's a varient of Occam's Razor for engineering but seeing this I can appreciate the genius Kalashnikov truly was
6.5x50mm Arisaka is a great cartridge and it doesn't get the respect it deserves.
Yeah people claim it's weak and compared to 30.06 it is, however it's roughly twice as powerfull 5.56. At least that's what wikipedia said last I checked.
It's a bit oversized for its performance capabilities. It could have benefited from reducing the case size and raising the pressure; all of which were well within the means of the Japanese.
@@ostiariusalpha But, is it performing within the capabilities of the metallurgy, designs, and machining skill available to the armorers... that's likely why it was what it was. Safety factor.
@@mfree80286 Not exactly, the Japanese were more paranoid about their metallurgy than was really necessary. They lowered the pressure of the cartridge beyond what an adequate safety factor should have been. The Japanese manufacturers had better metallurgy and machining skills than their military authorities gave them credit for.
@@ostiariusalpha Ok then, *perceived* safety factor over perceived metallurgical/engineering constraints. Result's the same.
So I finish for the year at work today, get to leave an hour early and a forgotten weapons video on a weapon I’ve been very curious about for years! Guess Christmas came early!
LOL! Same here! Went out of work early because I had a doctor's appointment, and when I went out of the doctor's office I saw this notification. I've been curious of this gun for months. One of my fav medic rifles in BF1.
Whenever Ian takes apart one of these rare firearms, I’m halfway expecting something to break and it makes me so nervous every time some part is stuck!
Beautiful rifle, one of the rifles I wish I could own. The mechanics are some of the most interesting of any rifle I've ever seen.
Honestly, I think the vertical grip was intended to be used the way you suggested, as a handstop with the palm of your hand and your thumb on the side of the stock. This is the proper holding technique for virtually all vertical grips today. The "broom handle" on current issue M4s are not supposed to be grabbed like a handle, it's to be used more like a hand stop. We usually associate this shooting style with modern day tactical shooting, but whose to say they didn't do it that way back then? It's possible that nuanced things like that simply aren't documented, if you were to observe these weapons in use at the time, I bet you would see some Travis Haley style techniques in common usage.
A Dong is a dong is a dong.
"Things went really well... Until War were declared"
*WAR WERE DECLARED*
Avatar: The Last Airbender flashback, anyone?
@@mauser98kar no this is a futurama reference
No I’m pretty sure it’s a C&Rsenal reference
I know this is an old vid, but i just have to say, the way you run through the workings and tear down of firearms from common all the way to ultra rare is just top notch. I get lost in these vids for hours. Bravo, sir. Bravo.
Fedorov wrote a lot of articles on small arms theory all throughout his career. In Dec 1945 issue 44 of Voyenny Vestnik he lumps the M1916 and the Mkb-42 into the same type without really giving it a name, just a "light machine gun that enabled the shooter to shoot on the move". In Nov 1946 in Voyennyy Vestnik Issue 22 however, he defined the following taxonomy.
Avtomat/automatic rifle chambered in standard cartridge (he calls it cartridge of currently accepted power). M1916 and the Browning Automatic Rifle
Pistol Machine gun (SMG) chambered in a pistol cartridge
Avtomat-carbine chambered in an intermediate cartridge Mkb-42
So the origin of the cartridge was important to him as well not just raw power. New weapon + new cartridge = new type. The M1916 used a standard miliatry cartridge of the time it was developed so he lumped it together with the BAR.
In 1945 Bolsheviks were in charge and writing the truth was generaly unacceptable...
The best example is the whole WW2 that was erased from Sowiet literature and replaces with Great Patriotic War to not mention that in 1939 and 1940 Soviet Union was fighting this war as German ally...
True moon rock of firearms world
There's some differences in terminology between "west" and "east".
Fedorov's gun in different iterations was named as "Self-loading rifle", "Automatic Rifle" and, at last, "Avtomat".
(Source: Zhuk A.B. "Small Arms: Revolvers, Pistols, Rifles, Submachine-guns, Tommy-guns / Strelkovoe Orugie: Revolvery, Pistolety, Vintovki, Pistolety-Pulemjety, Avtomaty", ISBN 5-203-01445-0. Version of 2002, published by "ACT", page 613; not sure if it was ever translated to english.)
The first two kinda self explanatory and fit really well in your presumption of use of this gun, but "Avtomat" is kinda strange thing.
Term "Avtomat" is defined as "Automatic Carbine".
Term "Carbine" defined as "Lightened Rifle with shortened barrel".
And "Rifle" defined as "Rifled firearm, constructively designed to be held and operated with two hands, with buttstock rested in shoulder".
(Source: GOST 28653-90 (ГОСТ 28653-90), #32, #35, #36; [GOST as standardisation system been in place since 1920-s, not sure about this particular number though]).
As far as I can see there's no real connection to the caliber in definition of "Avtomat"(at least by currently established definition), which in the western world commonly equates to term "Assault Rifle", that actually have mention of caliber in it's definition. (Source: Encyclopædia Britannica. 2010.)
This is where misunderstanding and confusion starts from. How to overcome it? I have no idea, but we have to keep it in mind.
Also, as side note, Ian, try to contact Maxim Popenker at some point, he probably can help you with organizing the tour to Russian museums.
Right, an автомат is any carbine shooting low powered ammunition. This includes all assault rifles (the 20" barrel of the M16 is still considered carbine length to the Russians), the Fedorov Automat, and even submachine guns like the PPSh-41 are classified as automats.
@@ostiariusalpha I've included the source of definition of Avtomat (and Carbine, and Rifle) I've used and it do not have any mention of caliber or ammunition power or numerical barrel lengths at all. "Pistolet-Pulemet" mentioned in that GOST 28653-90 though, under number 37, and it defined as "Avtomat, constructively adapted to use pistol cartridges.". This is the first vague mention of ammunition power in that "branch" of definitions. Calling PPSh-41 an "Avtomat" is technically not correct, but it is an "Avtomat, that shoots pistol bullets" so it's acceptable.
@@UselessZero That's not vague, that's a direct definition. So, it is indeed "technically correct," because the GOST is the technical standard. The barrel length requirement is vague due to carbine not having a numerical specification, but I will point out that the M07, M38, and M44 Mosin-Nagant carbines all had a barrel length of 514mm (20.2"), and that certainly shaped their thinking about what lengths qualify as a carbine; the Fedorov Automat's barrel is 520mm, and is called a carbine. The cartridge power requirement is even less well defined, yet the SKT-40 carbine in 7.62x54R is not an automat.
yeah, use a GOST to define a weapon designed in Russian Empire.
@@thatdude3938 Fedorov stayed in RSFSR and later USSR after the civil war. He started teaching small arms design in a University. So he probably had a say in writing of GOST.
I mean it’s kinda like the Russian/early soviet equivalent to the BAR, before the BAR.
*random part falls off during disassembly* we’ll touch on this in a moment
"Things went fairly well but then World War One starts."
You could say that about EVERYTHING at the time.
Amusingly enough, even about 'Murica. The clusterfuck of figuring out large-scale logistics for the first time was probably highly amusing to anyone not involved in actually hauling freight or suffering from shortages while the private companies were signing their nationalisation warrants.
Except when things go bad and then a war starts...
Чувак, знаешь, что больше всего меня убивает в этой истории с 1 мировой? Так это ,то , что к тому моменту почти все правители были родственниками друг другу (черт возьми Георг, Николай и Вильгельм друг друга с детства знали), но это не помешала им в погоне за финансовыми интересами своих Элит ввязаться в одну из кровавейших мясорубок. А после ее окончания эти же финансовые элиты сделали все возможное, что бы эта мясорубка повторилась ( один версальский договор который нарушили уже спустя 12 лет или мюнхенский сговор чего стоят). И рвать друг друга пошел низший класс, а обогатился высший класс. Это мне не дает покоя еще с 7 класса...
@@alexartemov953 The US created propaganda as we know it. Once they demonstrated that a country of immigrants (many of German decent) could get into a war that didn't really effect them it was on. Their was no limit to what the ruling class could manipulate people into doing. All because they were to greedy and selfish to share the wealth never mind adopting socialism.
@@thundersoul6795 USA was doing more than fine during WW1... the only problem was the fact that soldiers came back from Europe with Spanish flu...
I’m in love with that locking mechanism. I wonder why no one else has recreated it either deliberately or accidentally?
Roller-locking is kinda similiar concept found on certain guns. Also there are systems similiar to Fedorov that use 2 plates, but they move diagonaly outwards the bolt to unlock.
There is an unspoken rule in gunsmithing in regards to internal components - "less is more". Less internals = less time to produce a gun (generally) = cheaper guns, also the more moving parts you have, the more chances something will fail. You can see that most of the gun designs that are successfull and stood the test of time (AKs, ARs, G3, Mosin-Nagant, 1911 Browning etc.) are relatively simple and use clever engineering and out-of-the-box thinking to achieve their respective goals, and more complicated or under-engineered systems (SVT, BAR, STG-44, G11 etc) are either too prone to failures, too expensive to make and outfit hundreds of thouthands of people with, too difficult to maintain on a battlefield or just not good enough to compete with already adopted and widely known systems mentioned before. I'm sure Fedorov's design can be modernized and improved, but there are inherent flaws in it that you can't really avoid without completely changing the system.
You know it's a rare one when Ian's gloved up.
The whole idea of semi auto first then full auto in emergencies seems to be the concept that stood the test of time and is used by most if not all militaries today
the great Fedorov is the father of all Soviet weapons, whose systems gave the name to his other students Degtyarev Simonov and Shpagin, the great Kovrov plant
@Олег Вещий манярхист порвался
@Олег Вещий и это все, на что тебя хватило?)
Обтекай
@Олег Вещий да это у тебя походу пригорело, что оружие советское потому что сделано при советском режиме
@Олег Вещийну, тут не поспоришь
@Олег Вещий Значит к примеру Т-64 и Т-34 украинские танки но не русские)) Разработка этих танков проводилась в Украине и сам факт того что был термин Советский народ, что-то похожее на Югославов если так сказать
As a massive fan of Russian firearms, this made my day! Thank you
Ian, I appreciate your ability to get your hands on some of the rarest firearms from history, and then Totally nerd 🤓 out on the device! Please keep on doing what you are doing! From a phellow Phoenician, enjoy the weather while you can!
Imagine going to this museum specifically to check out this gun, exactly the same day they pull it out of display just so Ian can get his nerd on
It might not been the first assault rifle but clearly it was a step in the direction of what we know now as an assault rifle. It was for sure an important step in the evolution of what became now the de facto standard weapon type for all armies.
@jonny j Well, Kalachnikov said he had been inspired by the STG when he made AK, so there's no taking that away.
That being said, The Fedorov is kinda a problem. If you consider this an assault rifle, you have to consider the Burton LMR as one too.
@Blake Ubersox It was?
It's clearly stated that the later versions were made with removable 25-round box magazines.
@Blake Ubersox So, an AK that you only have one mag and fill up with stripper clips is not an assault rifle, considering your judgement.
Nonetheless, I still believe this to be the very first assault rifle. Doesn't mean everyone has to agree.
Charles-Olivier Denis - Well, I think it’s deliberate here not to call it for what it is instead of M1916. If you’d go to any museum or catalog of fire arms back in Soviet Union, then Avtomat Fedorov -1914/16 would be a more appropriate name for it. In fact there is a name “Avtomat” is the name of new class of that weapon belong to Nicholay Phylatov, in 1920’s, who was a director of gun firing range where Avtomat Fedorov 1914/16 was field tested, so to distinguish from Machine Pistol that fires pistol rounds, and Hend Held Light Machine Guns such as Lewis and BAR. So STG44 per Soviet classification is actually belong to that class, so is Avtomat Kalashnikov’s-1947 as you guest it derives from that too...
@Comitatensis wrong
Now, if we could get C&Rsenal a Fedorov so they make the fabled episode...
Next level Patreon goal for C&Rsenal, flights to Finland for the team so we can watch Mae shoot it.
@@ausmax1972 no way they'd let them shoot it though.....
better make that patron goal a heist to steal it out from under their noses and replace it with a dummy rifle.....
@@overboss9599 Ian mentioned that he'd seen some in Finland, it's be far easier to convince a likely private owner there than the British government to let Americans film shooting with it...
Wow cant believe you got the chance to go over one of these, seems like Christmas came early. Thanks Ian for everything you do happy holidays!
Extremely interesting and great camera work, not easy to point, operate and film. Never disappointed in your vids, thanks
So damn swaggy.
It's like an AK and a Mosin had a love baby
I would argue the SKS fits that description better
@@bennnymiddleton40 eh somewhat. Or the SVT-40 (which is more of a Mosin/sks hybrid)
time travelling ak.
As Russian I am especially pleased to see this video
@@dustinh4175 same, bro. F the politicians, thery are a-holes
Tra-ta-ta-ta KomЯad!
@Rg93 CIA traffics drugs and your media is sold out and all major culture assets (music industry, hollywood, publishers) is controlled by state security and your elections are rigged (hello Bush Jr.). Shit, we are exactly the same!
@@dustinh4175 I personally hope that ww3 will eventually occur, wiping out the majority of the brainwashed "patriots" from the both sides. Then survivors can create something more rational with little less risk of cutting each other down in process. Time of "states" is gone.
Russia and the US can and should get along. No need to be enemies over insignificant countries like North Korea and Syria
This WW1 AK still rules in BF1 boyz 😎🤙
Fedorov’s assault rifle 6.5x50 mm Arisaka Weight, kg - 5.2 (with an equipped magazine) Length, mm - 1045 Barrel length, mm - 520 Real fire, m ~ 400 Tech. rate of fire, rounds / min - 600 Muzzle velocity, m / s - 660-770 Muzzle energy of a bullet, J - 1950-2150 Bullet weight, g 20 Bullet weight, g - 8.9 Type of ammunition - a box magazine with 25 rounds
Sturmgewehr 44 7.92x33 Kurz Weight, kg - 5.2 (with an equipped magazine) Length, mm- 940 Barrel length, mm- 420 Actual fire, m ~ 400 Tech. rate of fire, rounds / min - 600 Muzzle velocity, m / s - 680-690 Muzzle energy of a bullet, J ~ 1900 Bullet weight, g - 16.7 Bullet weight, g - 8.1 Type of ammunition - box magazine for 30 rounds
s AK 7.62 PS Weight, kg - 4.8 (with an equipped magazine) Length, mm 870/1070 (with bayonet) Barrel length, mm - 415 Valid fire, m ~ 400 Tech. rate of fire, rounds / min - 600 Muzzle velocity, m / s - 710-725 Muzzle energy of a bullet, J -1990-2080 Weight of a cartridge, g- 16.5 Weight of a bullet, g -7.9 Type of ammunition - box store 30 cartridges
the excitement in Ian's voice at 9:00 is pretty much all of us right now
Read It with Steve Carell's voice "Oh my god, it's happening"
Amazing video... never really had much info on the Fedorov, appreciate it...
Oh my! Thnx for making a video on this specimen.
Cool simple bolt locking system.
It's read like Födorov with the first syllable stressed
In English, that would be "Fyawdorof". The name should actually be transliterated "Fyodorov".
RUSSIA'S GREATEST LOVE MACHINE!
Rah rah Federov doesn’t have quite the same ring to it
Yooooo youre here holy shit
Will, I would never miss this video for the world, or most of Ian's videos for that matter 😁
No that's to drunk Russians on ak 47 vodka
@@mrb692 Fe fe fedorov..
It's a real shame that most of these guns aren't well preserved. I can only imagine the beauty of this gun when it was brand new.
I think this rifle fits perfectly as the first implementation of the assault rifle concept. Sure, it was big and bulky, but fedorov intended for this to be given to storm troopers to increase volume of fire but maintain range and accuracy. It's both a rifle and machine gun, which is the concept that makes a modern assault rifle, and for the time, it used the smallest, least powerful cartridge readily available.
One of the most anticipated videos from this channel-Thank you Ian.Hopefully you will get an opportunity to shoot one very soon.
Also perhaps you could contact Seaforth Highlanders in Vancouver and try to have a look at Huot automatic rifle they have in their collection.That would be truly epic since that weapon is so very rare.
In any case thank you very much for this and all the other forgotten weapons videos you produced.
Thank you GunJesus, very cool!!!
Keep it up, proud of you!
These early weapons are my favorite to learn about on FW. It's so interesting to see how they sorted out the early stages of an automatic weapon. Beautifully fascinating.
I would love to find a civilian repro of a federov. Theyre the coolest looking rifles ive ever seen
The front pistol grip looks like its there mainly to prevent the user from accidentally hitting the mag release catch.
Almost as interesting as the Fedorov itself, is the opportunity to get the Russians off of rimmed and heavily tapered ammo entirely. The 6.5 Japanese is certainly not intermediate by today's standards (nor is it completely rimless), but think "1950s intermediate" and the 6.5 starts looking pretty good as a battle rifle cartridge. Too bad nobody used it.
TheGoldenCaulk,
By World War I standards of of the .30 caliber and up 8mm Mauser, .30-06, 8mm Lebel and 7.62x54R, the 6.5 Jap was very much an intermediate cartridge. The base was smaller. The velocity was far lower. The bullet was smaller. Realistically, it was the closest round that the Russians had off the shelf during World War I.
arisaka catridge fired on this avtomat have 1900 joules is definitely an assault rifle
I first saw the Federov in "Military Small Arms of the Twentieth century". It intrigued me from the beginning... Thank you for a very interesting video. You knowledge and expertise is impeccable.
Damn, if the sound of that barrel recoiling isn’t the most satisfying weapon sound i’ve ever heard...
Ok, Ian is not only gun jesus, he is gun santa! THANK YOU for this review and disassembling.
What surprises me is that you classify 6.5x50 Arisaka as a full power cartridge (which places the M1916 Fedorov as a battle rifle) because this is a fairly weaker ammunition than the other full power cartridges in use at the time from 7.62x63, 7.92x57, 7.62x54 largely above 3KJ of muzzle energy, bullet above 11g (except for most used 30.-06), and longer. I'm quite lost considering the modern 6.5 like the 6.5 MPC with a cartridge just a bit less powerful (passing from 2.5KJ to 2.2), a bit lighter ( from 9g to 7.7). This japanese hybrid looks like perfectly sitting between light ammunitions (5.56 NATO) and full power ones (7.62x54R). Fairly heavier than 5.56 (twice) but not that far away in muzzle energy and this becomes even more true with new assault rifles ammunitions being heavier and more powerful like the 6.5/6.8
I have no stance to defend on the subject, but would be happy to be enlightened.
Again, thanks Ian and happy christmas everybody!
Now I'm waiting for the Korobov TKB-022 just in case since wishes came true!
Dimitri,
I agree. For Imperial Russia, that was a deliberate choice to use the weakest ammunition it could field. It was very intermediate for that day.
Plus, it would be entirely feasible to run this with lower powered ammo, of control-ability became a serious concern. But I think you cannot really fault it, for it's time period, and what it ended up becoming.
What I'm very curious about though, is it's lineage in terms of Soviet doctrine. I'm sure it's reasonable to assume that the Ak-47 was the first assault rifle to become the standard issue weapon for the infantry. The Germans do not appear to have attempted to do this, and were much more keen to experiment during wartime, compared to the other powers. The Soviets, instead of implementing new designs, would typically focus on improving the output of their factories. And if push came to shove, maybe, just maybe, increasing the calibre on a tank gun.
In the context of the Stalinist shake-up of the Red Army, the giant purges, and the massive expansion in arms around '39-41 ... where the Red Army tripled in size, suggesting going to an older, more complex design would've been a fast-track to the Gulag. But Kalashnikov was working on weapons in 1942. While this was possibly still in Soviet service. Surely it's performance in combat must've influenced something like that.
I fully agree with you)
Only thing i'd add, is it's certainly not a battle rifle either. Above Battle Rifle, were the categories:
Automatic Rifle (BAR, Chauchat, FG42, etc) *
O Neg wrote: “What surprised me is that you classify 6.5x50 Arisaka as a full power cartridge (which places the M1916 Fedorov as a battle rifle).”
- That is very unfortunate that he went to British museum instead of Soviet/Russian. 6.5x50 Arisaka in AF1916 velocity 660 m/s with muzzle energy only 1925 J is an intermediate cartridge to 7.62x54, and as name of this weapon implies it’s an Avtomat(Western - Assault Rifle like AK-47), and not a battle rifle like AVS-36 and M-14.
It seems like its operating concept is more along the lines of what the Germans were going for in the FG-42 rather than what the French where going for in the Chauchat. A rifle that operated in semi-auto most of the time but could serve as a light machine gun in a pinch. Where the Chauchat was an attempt at a proper full time light machine gun.
The French differentiated between LMGs and automatic/machine rifles, the Chauchat was in the latter category. So it is a fair comparison. But you are right that the Fedorov was aiming for a role more similar to the FG-42.
A Chauchat is long recoil.
A Fedorov was short recoil.
Gun Jesus was wrong. The Fedorov was an assault rifle, designed to be used like an assault rifle.
@@davewilson7092 Fedorov designed it to be used with a full power cartridge, the 6.5x57mm, and the Russians used it as a crew-served weapon.
@@ostiariusalpha,
That was version 1. Based on what Fedorov saw in France, he revised this into the closest thing he could to what the French really needed, a light, man portable weapon that would let them bring fire power when making an assault across trenches. It was an "Assault Rifle."
@@davewilson7092 100% incorrect. Fedorov didn't build a single select-fire prototype till after he returned from France to Russia, and every single one after that was in his 6.5x57mm cartridge. It wasn't till Russian ordnance nixed the production of his round that the decision to go with 6.5mm Arisaka was made.
Reading Ballantine's Infantry Weapons 1971. They mentioned this rifle briefly, but I knew where to go for more.
"Comrade, we need a stock for this! had me that 2X4 and a wood rasp!"
"Yes, Comrade Schroeder. Hold my vodka."
За Фёдорова - лайк не глядя! Спасибо, Иен, уважил!
Хорошо бы ещё увидеть стрельбу из этого автомата.
@@user-bk1fq8vp7fДумаю, не так уж много их сохранилось, чтобы понапрасну стрельбой развлекаться. Эта вещь - она и эстетически глаз радует, пусть даже и дерево внутри наскоро выдолблено. Пущай их из Шошей стреляют - чай не жалко)
@@user-bk1fq8vp7f
Да патроны-то есть, производят. Только навряд ли кто ему даст отстрелять музейный экспонат, а на руках, похоже, нигде ни у кого нет.
@@user-bk1fq8vp7f для стрельбы можно и реплику сделать.
Das vedanya
Very interesting action. Love your tear-downs and explanation of the mechanical bits. This time period produced many interesting mechanical inventions.
This thing is so satisfying to me. Its a really elegant design, particularly the locking mechanism
Great job Ian. Really appreciate your insight on this video. Thanks mate!
The fact that Ian gets just as excited as I would, is awesome. I applaud his passion and commitment
Kovrov is same factory where Kalashnikov worked during development of AK.
Fedorov also developed intermediate cartridge for first steps in development of soviet assault rifles that started after capturing german mkb.42
Also Fedorov was updated in 1933 as I know
in Kovrov after the revolution, he worked Fedorov and lo and behold three of a locksmith became brilliant designers Simonov Degtyarev and Shpagin Kalashnikov
LilMalygos,
Very true. This was a selective fire weapon of about the length and weight of an AK-47, with a magazine capacity pushing that of an AK-47, using the closest thing to an intermediate cartridge that the Russians could practically field. Comparing it to a full power cartridge Chauchat that was much longer and weighed twice as much and required two people is a joke. Gun Jesus is wrong!
Youre absolutely in love with this kind of stuff, arent you? Its a treat to hear from someone so knowledgeable.
I have been watching your presentation for years.. thanks for doing these..
Now there is a nice Early Christmas !!!
M-16 vs AK-47 wars are done.
Let the new battle begin-which is better- Chauchat vs Fedorov. ;)
Chauchat is one of the worst LMGs in the world due to it's low rate of fire, shitty accuracy and problems with mechanism however it was the most mass produced semi-auto/full-auto weapon of the WW1.
Fedorov is M14 but from times of bolt-actions rifles.
@Jose Antonio Campuzano Cano That's dumb. You do realise the SturmGewehr was made in 1944, during *WWII*
@@charles-olivierdenis6633 Yes, he was joking. But on serious note: sturmgmpewwee fabboys always claim what sturmgewmewpew was the first at everything and what all rifles before it were only semi-automatic.
m16 was always overwhelmingly infrior to AK47
what about the Benet Mercie ?
I was curious about this gun since I was a kid. Thank you for this video.
The joy in his voice when he starts the breakdown process is unmistakable. Great video.
The muzzle end of that rifle looks nearly identical to an Arisaka type 38 muzzle end as does the bayonet lug. I would venture to say that it is entirely possible (since they chambered the rifles for 6.5 Arisaka and Russia would had had an excess) for the rifles to also use the Arisaka pattern bayonet. Just my two cents on the matter.
Actually I was thinking the same. I was like ya know that front end looks familiar and then he said it was chambered in 6.5 arisaka and i'm like ahh that's it lol. Even the barrel with the exception of the moving feed ramp system had a profile very much like an arisaka.
It turns out there's a line drawing on page 16 (15 in the PDF) of the manual at www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/manuals/Fedorov1928manual.pdf
It looks pretty weird, and like it'd interfere with the gun's operation...but if this is the 1928 manual, maybe it's actually representative.... Perhaps the rifle wasn't meant to be usable while the bayonet was fixed, and it was more of a backup weapon? Or maybe this wasn't actually considered a rifle, so it wasn't issued with a bayonet at all?
Hmm, www.theakforum.net/forums/29-russian/238785-first-fedorov-1916-7-62mm-automatic-rifle.html has some interesting pictures and text, though I didn't have the patience to read it....
@@mysss29 That shows a French Gras bayonet with the quillon on backwards.
The rear site is a dead ringer for the one on the type 38 arisaka carbine - the sling swivels are similar also.
@@arisukak xD that's pretty funny
I've since seen a photo or two of a Fedorov with a very weird-looking dagger-y bayonet that actually exists...and a long translation in a forum post that included a remark about these not being issued with one.
Edit: Oh wait, I already linked to that. Oops.
Someone needs to make modern reproductions of these
It's a blowback right? Should be no problem for a simple action.
@@Joshua_N-A It's not blowback, it's -gas piston- short recoil operated
Very happy to see this video! Very much impressed with this rifle, seems very ahead of its time and a shame it never got refined and adopted.
The metal innards of the gun are so nicely preserved and made. They’re just so fun to look at