Every time I see Ivysaur's recovery in Brawl, I always think of how if he grabs the front ledge of Pirate Ship, it swings him into the ship and kills him instantly. It's so funny.
the more you watch through this video the more it feels like the devs genuinely hated ivysaur. The stamina and weakness gimmicks can be seen as "misguided" but making the basic enemy of subspace specifically resistant to grass attacks is just cruel
I wasn't even going to originally make a standalone Pokemon Trainer/Ivysaur video but when I was doing research I would KEEP FINDING NEW THINGS that would negatively effect ONLY Ivysaur. It's SO foul lmfao
Hey, they resist slash too Marth and co are also given the middle finger. Still crazy they made it this way though. Poor ivysuar does NOT get to eat. Also, the other two pokemon have a few good non-elemental attacks they can use. If charizard is fighting squrtle, at least charizard can use non-elemental attacks to hit squrtle through resistance. Ivy against charizard has pretty much nothing, essentially making charizard always have 10% less knockback taken if ivy is in play.
Fun #Gaming fact: Ivysaur is the only Grass-type Pokemon to be playable in Smash! As a reference to "Grass" containing the word "ass", the Brawl team made sure that this character was as bad as possible!
They need to give Grass a break. It's why Decidueye should have been playable over Incineroar, because we don't have a single fully evolved Grass Pokémon in Smash.
God a good ivysaur was so frustrating to fight in PM but I could never be mad about getting owned by a properly aimed solar beam. Such a badass move; I wish Nintendo would have taken notes.
"Is he stronger than you Ivysaur?" Hmm.. good question. If he were to use fire-infused attacks, it might cause me a little trouble. "But would you lose?" Nah, i'd win.
The ultimate Brawl battle? Ivysaur and Ganon only, items on high, Mario Bros. and/or Rumble Falls (Bonus points if dash dancing is encouraged to increase the odds of tripping)
That's probably because they messed up the sounds. Hydros make electric noises while Electric ones make water noises. The only one that works is the fire ones
The subspace emisary thing is just straight up mean WHY, its so unnecesary too, honestly that makes me think that there was a development stage for more grass attacks but they scrap them and leave the system there because
I was doing some theorycrafting, and this was the only thing I could think of. Like maybe they were short on time and had to scrap it? Such an odd thing to add to SPECIFICALLY spite one character
I think it has to be how much easier bullet seed makes it for more casual players. I forget how much damage it can do but it's above 40 iirc. They don't smash-di.
@@cr4sh25 heavy characters are stuck in there even with SDI, a direct scoop will deal up to 60% on like Bowser or DK. Definitely a knowledge check move for new players
@@Brawlternative The quote from the wiki page doesn't actually say that every enemy except Primids resist grass. It's saying that (except Primids) every enemy has the same resistance to grass as they do to slashing attacks.
They had some really interesting ideas. They went in (what i think to be) the objectively wrong direction with a lot/most of them, but the way they expand on some of the stuff in future games shows they at least had a good starting point. Just sucks that Brawl got the brunt end of being the "alpha test" for a lot of it lol
Like Sonic's whole boring moveset. They had 2 Sonic fighting games to work with, yet just gave him spindash and a bunch of cloned moves. I know there was a time crunch, but what really makes it annoying is Sakurai won't even let Sonic have a different moveset in 4 and Ultimate (due to some BS).
@@YujiUedaFan he does atleast have 2 (i know it's not that many) moves straight from those games, the ftilt is from sonic the fighters and the dair is from battle
@@YujiUedaFan I get why Sonic is scuffed for Brawl, assuming I remember correctly that Sonic was the last character added and therefor probably a rush job but come on, where the hell is the Axe Kick from the GBA fighter? why does he need 2 spindash moves? they could have easily made his DSMash a breakdance rather than a leg split
I've always wondered which attacks in brawl counted as the various elements. The fact that both water and grass have ZERO outside of Trainer is baffling.
7:41 That's not what that passage means. There are 11 "types" of attacks in the Subspace Emissary, and each enemy has programmed weaknesses and resistances to each of the types. For example Fire Primids resist fire and projectile attacks, but are weak to slash, ice and water attacks. The passage on screen is stating that every enemy that has a resistance/weakness to slash attacks has the same resistance/weakness to grass attacks...except the Primid family for some reason.
Seeing Squirtle (The fast and weak out of the 3) with like 17 resistances makes me think of how dangerous it is to make a Steel type pokemon have very powerful stats. The idea behind "Fast but weak" is just corrected by "resists almost everything"
@@Darksilver740 Zacian as a whole was pretty much designed to be absurd (which makes it fucking hillarious how Zamazenta is now the good on in SV VGC post-nerfs)
@@gypsysprite4824 To be fair zacian is basically the perfect singles Pokémon (where it is still very busted). Obviously some of that bustedness translates over to vgc but insane stats and typing takes you less far there by default.
I don't get why they include mechanics like Stamina, but then do basically nothing to tell casual players about it (especially since this was before they added the loading screen tips)... There really isn't any obvious hints about it, because most people won't sit still long enough to notice their idle animation change, let alone understand what that means... To a casual player, they'll just wonder why the heck this character is so weak, not realizing that its a result of the stamina mechanic taking effect.
i swear its like they want to punish you for playing in away they dont want you to but dont want to guide you to play how they intend. Genuinely the most backwards, misguided way to design a videogame mechanic imaginable
yeah but in pokemon the grass types have acess to the best status moves and also a built in immunity to all powder moves, in brawl ivysaur has half a good move(maybe)
Yeah, grass has gotten a lot better nowadays. A lot of good grass types came out and what resistances it has are good. Shame about being weak to U-Turn though
Tim Follin has always been one of my GOATs and it always puts a smile on my face to see his music used anywhere. I can only imagine how crazy his career would've been if he got to compose such technically insane music for some of the most popular games on the system
Ivy is unfortunately still one of the worst characters in ultimate on her own. She’s kinda still bad at everything but is functional now. Kill confirms only got her far in the super early meta. A series of nerfs to the only thing going for her and a better player base have basically gutted the character.
@@blank_ivysaurion give a fuck. Ivysaur is still good to me. With the way the mechanics in Ultimate work there rlly is no “bad” character or at the very least the bad characters still feel relatively powerful if used right
I'm so glad PT as a whole is actually good in Ultimate, probably my favorite character concept in the series and it's great to see that concept actually done justice.
7:42 That's not saying that every enemy has a grass resistance. It's saying that, with one exception, the damage multiplier for grass attacks is always the same as the damage multiplier for slash attacks. For example, there's a couple enemies, such as the Sword Primid, that take 0.7x damage from both grass and slash attacks. The vast majority of enemies take 1.0x damage from both grass and slash attacks. There's not a single enemy in the SSE that's meaningfully weak to grass damage, so things still suck for grass, but not nearly to the same extent as you were saying.
The fire-water-grass type effectiveness thing would have been more balanced if it only applied to another PKMN Trainer's Pokémon, and not to EVERY playable character. It was cruel from Sakurai to load the game with fiery attacks but water and grass attacks could only be found on Squirtle and Ivysaur respectively, giving Charizard and Squirtle an unfair advantage over Ivysaur
Fast forward one major mod, a gender transition, a super move, and significant frame buffs later and Ivy becomes so strong she became the unofficial mascot for Project M for a good period of time
I legit thought Olimar and purple Pikmin count as Grass-damage when I was a child and I'm still shocked they don't. I get the Pikmins are supposed to have different elements, but the fact that they ARE plants and have not any Grass-damage in the whole kit bothers me alot.
-Ivy dies to GnW fair @ 100 -Steve NIL Upsmash finishers kill Ivy @ 70 -Holy water does 50% to Ivy -Ramram does increased knockback to Ivy at ledge (can’t come back to stage w/ switching if hit @ 40) -etc...
Also what about other weaknesses ivysaur is also weak to psychic so ness and Lucas psi attacks would be effective also squirtle is week to electric and charizard is weak to rock and electric Also lucario is weak to fire
Honestly, I'd low key love to see the elemental weakness and resistance thing expanded on. Not just to other pokemon (ex. Lucario being weak to Fire but resist Dark), but also in who deals what elemental damage. Like if they doubled down and made it so Pirhanna Plant had a bunch of moves that did Grass damage and Corrin being able to deal Water damage. Maybe even introduce new elements, like if Corrin could also do Dragon damage, but Jigglypuff resists Dragon attacks. Also you could have it so Isaac Golden Sun is added and he does a bunch of elemental shenanigans. I think removing the system outright was the smart move, but man, if you're gonna be weird and experimental at least double down on it.
There would be some oddball ones for sure, especially since Pokemon really shouldn't have exclusive authority in determining Smash's types. Palutena and Mythra are doing Light damage, Peach and Zelda deal some Magic, some characters might have a totally unique element that nobody else has, like Bayonetta having Umbral element attacks, or Rosalina having Astral damage, which is going to uniquely define their matchups. And maybe it gets weirder. Do Ganondorf, Sephiroth, and White Pikmin REALLY do the same "dark" damage? Is it the same or different to Incineroar's Darkest Lariat, or Mewtwo's Shadow Ball? Is Mewtwo's psychic stuff the same as the Mother psychic stuff? Is a bite attack slashing, piercing, or bludgeoning? Are Ike and Cloud's swords slashing or blunt? Is Aura its own type, or just Fighting? Is every standard attack in the game Fighting or Normal? Are swords Steel? Does Yoshi have an Egg type? Does Game and Watch deal Slashing with his hammers and such, because they're two dimensional?
See, I hard agree with this sentiment. They just didn't have to go SO hard with the type weakness stuff. It can be smaller things, like inflicts slightly more percent or maybe the "super effective" move doesn't withhold its knockback & percent staling. For some reason they went with "lets make them either die or survive more 10% of the time" and to me that is ABSURD
@@aprinnyonbreak1290 In Smash for 3DS, Darkness is actually treated as Fire, as Chandelure absorbs both elements, even though it's only supposed to absorb Fire.
It would have been 200,000x better to just let it go back up to 100 when you lose a stock, or regenerate at least 2stam/s when not in use. They really wanted you to COMMIT to using one for a whole stock, even with Ivy's weaknesses
if there ever comes a video about non-functioning moves, Pit N-air takes one of the top spots since it’s a multihit that basically hits only once, and is just outclassed by every other aerial in his kit
SO many games have such good OSTs that are basically lost to time. I make an effort to find the best of the best and use them, since they were made to be heard :)
7:45 To elaborate on the text here, it's saying that all enemies except Primids (actually, all types of Primids except Sword Primid) have paired damage resistances for grass- and slash-attacks; i.e. if their slash damage resistance is 1.0x, their grass resistance is also 1.0x. That being said, the point here still stands, as the only enemies who take anything above 1.0x damage from grass are enemies who are uniformly weak to all damage types (ex. Floow).
Tbh I think the biggest thing is they wanted them to be unique. Smash was made as a party game to be played casual and it was a fun gimmick for that. The devs didn't develop this game from a competitive standpoint, so overall I think it was a cool thing. Just not competitively.
I wholeheartedly agree! I think a fleshed out version of this with visuals that match the "type weakness," maybe a special sound or something to make it more clear? etc etc is an absolutely bonkers cool idea for a character like Pokemon Trainer. I at least wish they fleshed it out in Subspace more, since I remember dying a lot as Ivysaur since coincidentally there's a bunch of fire guys in his part of the campaign
Stamina still suck on a casual level. Imagine wanting to play with your favorite Nintendo character, but the game decide to punish you for using the character you like by nuking their damage and knock-back.
The fact that Ivysaur was by far the best Pokémon on the trainer's team in early Ultimate really shows how much they didn't want Brawl Ivysaur to happen again.
I really try to find & implement choice cuts for the soundtrack to my videos! I always feel like it gives it a different vibe than using, like, Xenoblade Chronicles 3 Brilliant Wings (which is a banger in its own right, but overused lol) thanks for the kind words!!
I'm honestly surprised they didn't make Squirtle and Charizard also weak to electricity. But this is not surprising considering we're talking about Brawl lol.
BRO ROBOQUEST MUSIC IN YOUR INTRO IS A POWER MOVE. That music is so damn good and im glad to meet more cultured people on the Internet lol. Also, banger content, well earned sub.
Its also worth noting his up smash is strong, yet so slow and makes you really vulnerable. His up and down air attacks are good but they have a lot of end lag too. He's just an overall difficult character to play and win with.
Great video, love how you even brought up Subspace. I love finding out about mechanical quirks in the adventure modes or other modes in general. Keep up the good work my dude
It's truly incredible how much of a glow up Ivysaur had an ultimate. Went from being bullied by mechanics on top of bad frame data and kill power, to having one of the best projectiles in the game some of the best kill moves and all of those horrifying mechanics removed all in one fell swoop.
I love the use of the Roboquest soundtrack in the opening. You even synced up the drop to the channel intro, mad respect. EDIT: oh shit and Neon White?! goated.
I was so proud of the second "drop" hitting right when I start explaining Stamina lol. Using the Roboquest OST felt like cheating, the hype is baked in
It's crazy to think that the brawl dev team's trick for having people use all 3 pokemon was not "let's make the switch between all 3 easy and fast, and also balance them so that no one is clearly better than the other" but "let's make the current pokemon unplayable after a certain amount of time". And then they also made it as hard and risky as possible to switch your pokemon, because fuck them I guess
It's kinda of insane that they could have evened out the weakness by giving either or both Squirtle and Charizard a weakness to electric attacks and Ivysaur a resistance to them, but noooo. Gotta have the OG type triangle 🙄
Bro you’re putting out the best smash content nowadays, ur like the asumsaus of brawl. Keep it up man love these vids Also the seinfeld pop up is hilarious, loved that
This busted elemental spread really makes you appreciate the 'weirder' picks for elemental attacks in Ultimate. They went the extra mile because this situation was clearly haunting them. They even made blue pikmin do water damage.
You’re a legend for bothering to list all the music used in the video. You’d be surprised at how many really big channels don’t do that and it drives me crazy. Many a song that low key kinda went crazy in the background of a video have been lost to time that way
This was a fantastic video. As a kid I loved playing Ivysaur in Brawl, loved the changes the Project M team made to it, and loved the massive buffs Ultimate gave to it. Nice to see it spotlighted on this channel!
Imagine if they went all out with the pokemon type mechanic. Give every fighter and their moves a type that only interacts against pokemon characters. Like, sure dude. Make ganondorf a dark/fighting type and make him take 4x damage from jigglypuff rest (a psychic type move). Or sure, make charizard take normal damage from ice moves due to being fire/flying
One thing to note is that Switching Pokemon in Brawl is a whole lot slower and has a notable period where the incoming Pokemon can get hurt. If you don't create space for the switch your foe can hard punish you. I remember clips where people would try to raw switch in Free For Alls only to be the target of Falcon and Warlock Punches and Ike FSmashes.
Absolutely. The hardware limitations did not serve Pokemon Trainer well, if it had the much faster switching like we have in Ultimate I think Stamina would have been much less of a problem. But you're forced to play neutral with a 22%+ KB and damage nerf until you can find a 3s opening, which against some characters(MK, Icies, Diddy) is almost never possible
God I love your call-to-action moments. (3:00) They are always great moments since they aren’t obnoxious while achieving your objective. The goofy style of this one was hilarious. I truly hope that they work because your content is top notch. Keep up the great work. 👍🏻
They actually do!!! Maybe not as well as a blatant one, but they certainly bring it a little bit more numbers which is nice :) I try to have fun with it, I noticed the "elemental effects" section was a bit boring for people who know that already so I thought i'd throw in an interesting distraction there. Glad it's not coming across as annoying!!!
@@Brawlternative The only thing that could ever be portrayed as annoying is how many exclamation marks you use in your comments lol. Everything else is perfect. Hope your channel keeps growing and that you continue to put out great content. Keep up the great work. 👍
Sidenote: Your editing style and quality of work is arguably a massive reason for your rapid growth. So I wanted to asked, what made you get into editing and how’d you get so good at it? Additionally, what software do you use/recommend? I’m always curious to see the process behind the work. Anyways, thanks for your time.
@@johnstevenson3628 Hey, thanks so much for the kind words! I’m a professional graphic designer and I’ve been in the esports industry doing tournament production stuff(usually overlay and asset production, not running the stream/tournament itself) for a very long time so I’m pretty familiar with the market and my main demographic. I picked up editing about a year ago, but I’ve been told my workflow is unusual since i mostly try to apply static graphic design principles to my work instead of what someone with a video background would think to do(which is why my videos have a somewhat “unified” feel in presentation, which I’d like to move away from a bit in the future). I use the full Adobe suite of programs, but my videos are like 30/70 photoshop/premiere with some after effects sprinkled in if i need something specific i can’t do in Premiere. Thanks for your interest in my work :)
You know what? If they actually decided to give them all the strength and weaknesses that makes sense, then maybe there would've been a point to Ivysaur as the only one of the three that resists electricity, while the other two are weak to it.
Someones probably already mentioned this, and it doesnt really work the same way, but element properties also affect how strong an attack needs to be to outright kill different colors of Pikmin on contact. (At least it was that way in PM... maybe they added that specifically...)
This is such a high-effort way of presenting information that may be useful three times at most in my life. It's very entertaining, and I wish it wasn't so I would use my finite time on this Earth better.
YESSIR you making me look forward to every Thursdays. Amazing video as always SUBSPACE EMISSARY MENTIONED. We are now one step closer to a subspace emissary video lol
On one hand I'm happy to be watching such good content while it's fresh. On the other I wish I found this channel later so I could binge a load of your videos Loving your work man, keep it up!
It has probably being said many times, but a Brawl channel in 2024 is not what I was expecting, much less with such high quality editing, explanation and entertainment
fun fact! despite all of this, world record speedruns of brawl classic mode use pokemon trainer. Ivysaur's up smash is strong enough to one-shot nearly all of the characters in most levels due to the increased knockback characters take on easy difficulty, and runners switch to Charizard for the master hand boss battle because rock smash has such a massive damage output
It really seems like the biggest problem with the type weakness system is that it was not nearly detailed and expansive enough, almost like it was tacked on as an afterthought by someone who had literally never played a second of Pokemon. Explosions should not have been fire-type moves; they're literally Normal-type in every Pokemon game. A fucking electric plasma whip should not have been fire-type. Not to mention, water is not the only damage type that grass is resistant to, and there are a LOT of electric attacks in the game (Or at least, they certainly look like electric attacks, goddess knows if they even have an electric damage type coded in the game) and quite a few attacks that could be classed as ground-type as well (anything that involves a shockwave, Kirby Rock, etc). Seriously, this is the same studio that gave Mega Man a walking / jumping projectile jab, went back and coded surface material types for every single platform in every single stage for Steve's ability, made hundreds of interactions for Hero's spells, and gave Kirby everyone's code in order to make their NB function. Why did they half-ass this mechanic so hard???
Ivysaur is a Grass/Poison type Pokémon, so i dunno why they don't play with the poison aspect of the character... In Brawl, Ganondorf and Olimar (specifically White Pikmin) can deal darkness damage as a substitute for poison, so why wouldn't they include that for Ivysaur?
* grabs ur ledge *
no coney dont do it he has 24 character type weaknesses
Coney you really love this guy don’t you
hey look it’s the brawl guy
uwu
He is always watching in wait
Every time I see Ivysaur's recovery in Brawl, I always think of how if he grabs the front ledge of Pirate Ship, it swings him into the ship and kills him instantly. It's so funny.
Brawl Ivysaur as their finest.
Does it do the same for olimar
I WISH I KNEW ABOUT THIS BEFORE THE VIDEO CAME OUT THIS IS SO FUNNY BROOOO
I think that might still be a thing in Ultimate, I know it is for the Belmonts.
@thisbox its*
the more you watch through this video the more it feels like the devs genuinely hated ivysaur. The stamina and weakness gimmicks can be seen as "misguided" but making the basic enemy of subspace specifically resistant to grass attacks is just cruel
Someone on that dev team got their nuzlocke ruined by an Ivysaur/Venusaur.
This.
I wasn't even going to originally make a standalone Pokemon Trainer/Ivysaur video but when I was doing research I would KEEP FINDING NEW THINGS that would negatively effect ONLY Ivysaur. It's SO foul lmfao
It makes me really very sad honestly
Hey, they resist slash too
Marth and co are also given the middle finger. Still crazy they made it this way though. Poor ivysuar does NOT get to eat.
Also, the other two pokemon have a few good non-elemental attacks they can use. If charizard is fighting squrtle, at least charizard can use non-elemental attacks to hit squrtle through resistance. Ivy against charizard has pretty much nothing, essentially making charizard always have 10% less knockback taken if ivy is in play.
You see, Sakurai's first ever starter pokemon was Squirtle. He lost the first rival battle to Bulbasaur, causing him to swear vengeance.
Must have gotten over it when he came around to Ultimate lmao
@@JHamronSakurai doesn't balance ultimate
Makes sense
@@phillipanselmo8540not anymore but some of the balance changes he used to make were impactful
Fun #Gaming fact: Ivysaur is the only Grass-type Pokemon to be playable in Smash! As a reference to "Grass" containing the word "ass", the Brawl team made sure that this character was as bad as possible!
They need to give Grass a break. It's why Decidueye should have been playable over Incineroar, because we don't have a single fully evolved Grass Pokémon in Smash.
Fuck the grass type mistreatment
@@YujiUedaFan
Yeah but Incineroar is cool as fuck so he gets a pass 😎
As a link hater, i do not need another bow spammer.
Especially one that FLIES.
@@Mayobayo1 Maybe Meowscarda instead of next Smash game.
Project M realized the only way to redeem this character was to give it a gigantic death beam, among other buffs.
An acceptable solution
HELL YEAH pm solarbeam is one of the coolest moves of all time, a perfect example of Smash attack concept & execution & I stand by that
@@Brawlternative pm had a lot of stuff like that. Miss it dearly, pm did not deserve Gimr
God a good ivysaur was so frustrating to fight in PM but I could never be mad about getting owned by a properly aimed solar beam. Such a badass move; I wish Nintendo would have taken notes.
@@Brawlternative PM Solar Beam was done so well that it puts both Waft and Aura to shame.
If we permitted ivysaur vs ganon, ganon would still maybe lose but neither player would be smiling by the end
"Is he stronger than you Ivysaur?"
Hmm.. good question. If he were to use fire-infused attacks, it might cause me a little trouble.
"But would you lose?"
Nah, i'd win.
Imo I feel Ganon wins but not by much.
@@Rarest26 he still loses even if he wins because he's using Brawl Ganon in Brawl.
The ultimate Brawl battle? Ivysaur and Ganon only, items on high, Mario Bros. and/or Rumble Falls (Bonus points if dash dancing is encouraged to increase the odds of tripping)
@@SortaNonymous should be 75m, that stage is the single worst one in Brawl and both characters would suck at it.
The 24 fire-move camera stare shook me to my core
It was really effective! Hilarious in a schadenfreude way
Literally crying rn
I was thinking "...it's gunna be every character, isn't it?"
@@SlimeBlueMS it wasn't every character but it was damn near close
@@brunop.874561% of Brawl characters have a fire type attack. That's crazy
For the longest time I thought Peach’s turnip was a grass attack
THIS WOULD HAVE MADE SENSE
Well what about peach pulling a bomb
Does that bring to total to 25
Megaman's leaf shield!
@@jmurray1110 SHHHHHH DON'T TELL THEM ABOUT THE SECRET 25TH CHARACTER
@@berrim26 Villager and Isabelle down tilt
Subspace enemies being resistant to grass attacks is insane. Goomba has a good matchup against Ivysaur.
I mean technically he probably would be a grass type in Pokémon
Goomba? Goomba is definitely a poison/grass type.
@FishwicksREAL no way. goomba is sooo normal type.
@@multipleSpiders He is either a poison type of some sort, or a dark type of some sort.
@@multipleSpiders I mean they're based on mushrooms
I didn’t even realize there was a Hydro Jyk, I thought that those were Electric and the actual "electric" was Magic Jyk.
Same lmao
That's probably because they messed up the sounds. Hydros make electric noises while Electric ones make water noises. The only one that works is the fire ones
@@Wesley-76 I feel like the sound the Electric Jyks make are similar to when you get hit by Zelda's attacks, which is why I thought those were Magic.
@@dork5499 yeah it's a weird sound. I read it was water, but it certainly does sound magical
The subspace emisary thing is just straight up mean WHY, its so unnecesary too, honestly that makes me think that there was a development stage for more grass attacks but they scrap them and leave the system there because
I was doing some theorycrafting, and this was the only thing I could think of. Like maybe they were short on time and had to scrap it? Such an odd thing to add to SPECIFICALLY spite one character
I think it has to be how much easier bullet seed makes it for more casual players. I forget how much damage it can do but it's above 40 iirc. They don't smash-di.
@@cr4sh25 heavy characters are stuck in there even with SDI, a direct scoop will deal up to 60% on like Bowser or DK. Definitely a knowledge check move for new players
@@Brawlternative The quote from the wiki page doesn't actually say that every enemy except Primids resist grass. It's saying that (except Primids) every enemy has the same resistance to grass as they do to slashing attacks.
"Their solution to this was very misguided" I feel like that sums up a lot of the design decisions in brawl
They had some really interesting ideas. They went in (what i think to be) the objectively wrong direction with a lot/most of them, but the way they expand on some of the stuff in future games shows they at least had a good starting point. Just sucks that Brawl got the brunt end of being the "alpha test" for a lot of it lol
Like Sonic's whole boring moveset. They had 2 Sonic fighting games to work with, yet just gave him spindash and a bunch of cloned moves. I know there was a time crunch, but what really makes it annoying is Sakurai won't even let Sonic have a different moveset in 4 and Ultimate (due to some BS).
@@YujiUedaFan he does atleast have 2 (i know it's not that many) moves straight from those games, the ftilt is from sonic the fighters and the dair is from battle
@@YujiUedaFan I get why Sonic is scuffed for Brawl, assuming I remember correctly that Sonic was the last character added and therefor probably a rush job
but come on, where the hell is the Axe Kick from the GBA fighter? why does he need 2 spindash moves? they could have easily made his DSMash a breakdance rather than a leg split
@@RosalinaSama Seriously, what weird moves to use from those games.
its insane that brawl was the first smash game with an actual balance team and this stuff was allowed through. not to mention ics and meta knight
It’s funny, since the balance team was a tiny group of casuals.
Snake uptilt hitbox. Look that bad boy up if you haven't.
@@cr4sh25 wait til you see his nair shit is crazy
4-total-playtesters moment
Balanced worse than both of the installments before it despite having a balance team
I've always wondered which attacks in brawl counted as the various elements. The fact that both water and grass have ZERO outside of Trainer is baffling.
Does FLUDD not count for Mario? I mean I guess it doesn't really do damage
7:41 That's not what that passage means. There are 11 "types" of attacks in the Subspace Emissary, and each enemy has programmed weaknesses and resistances to each of the types. For example Fire Primids resist fire and projectile attacks, but are weak to slash, ice and water attacks. The passage on screen is stating that every enemy that has a resistance/weakness to slash attacks has the same resistance/weakness to grass attacks...except the Primid family for some reason.
Seeing Squirtle (The fast and weak out of the 3) with like 17 resistances makes me think of how dangerous it is to make a Steel type pokemon have very powerful stats. The idea behind "Fast but weak" is just corrected by "resists almost everything"
This is why Excadrill was so busted in Black and White.
@DeniableWhistle I was thinking of Zacian but he is also another good choice.
and then you remember that it weaks to fire so it dies to pyra down air at 0%
@@Darksilver740 Zacian as a whole was pretty much designed to be absurd (which makes it fucking hillarious how Zamazenta is now the good on in SV VGC post-nerfs)
@@gypsysprite4824 To be fair zacian is basically the perfect singles Pokémon (where it is still very busted). Obviously some of that bustedness translates over to vgc but insane stats and typing takes you less far there by default.
I don't get why they include mechanics like Stamina, but then do basically nothing to tell casual players about it (especially since this was before they added the loading screen tips)... There really isn't any obvious hints about it, because most people won't sit still long enough to notice their idle animation change, let alone understand what that means... To a casual player, they'll just wonder why the heck this character is so weak, not realizing that its a result of the stamina mechanic taking effect.
can confirm, was confused. I DID notice eventually, but it was _eventually._
It's especially foul because of how big the nerf is. 30% is INCOMPREHENSIBLE
i swear its like they want to punish you for playing in away they dont want you to but dont want to guide you to play how they intend. Genuinely the most backwards, misguided way to design a videogame mechanic imaginable
I seem to recall that I learned about that from the game manual.
Man they really wanted to be faithful to grass type in the Pokémon games with this fellow huh. That weakness chart hurt my soul
yeah but in pokemon the grass types have acess to the best status moves and also a built in immunity to all powder moves, in brawl ivysaur has half a good move(maybe)
@@michaualtington They shoulda added those status moves and made Ivy the support of the team while the other two do the damage
Yeah, grass has gotten a lot better nowadays. A lot of good grass types came out and what resistances it has are good. Shame about being weak to U-Turn though
@@Epzilon12 grass hasn't just gotten a lot better over the years at this point it is arguably a top 3 type in VGC alongside Fairy and Steel
@@michaualtingtontrue
i always found it hilarious how you can just destroy ivysaur's hopes and dreams by hogging ledge
also based tim follin pictionary music usage
unreal how good the entire OST is, man knew unimaginable things about the NES soundfont
Tim Follin has always been one of my GOATs and it always puts a smile on my face to see his music used anywhere. I can only imagine how crazy his career would've been if he got to compose such technically insane music for some of the most popular games on the system
RIP Geoff Follin, his brother
Tim Follin is goated.
You can technically kill them earier than little mac because of that
Oh so that’s why Ivy was so broken in ultimate, the zenkai boosts went absolutely crazy.
Ivy is unfortunately still one of the worst characters in ultimate on her own. She’s kinda still bad at everything but is functional now. Kill confirms only got her far in the super early meta. A series of nerfs to the only thing going for her and a better player base have basically gutted the character.
@@blank_ivysaur thanks for this, PT was super carried by early meta lack of knowledge and was nerfed before the meta corrected for it
@@blank_ivysaur Yeah her up air is up there with one of the best in the game with Palu's but...yeah thats it
@@blank_ivysaurion give a fuck. Ivysaur is still good to me. With the way the mechanics in Ultimate work there rlly is no “bad” character or at the very least the bad characters still feel relatively powerful if used right
@@blank_ivysaur Ivysaur and its private jet taking over the meta
Crazy that removing those systems and some number tweeking made Ivysaur arguably the best PT mon in Ultimate, and a high tier overall at that
He's so sick in Ultimate! I think the devs felt bad lol
Tbf Ivysaur was given a lot more than just "some" tweaking
I'm so glad PT as a whole is actually good in Ultimate, probably my favorite character concept in the series and it's great to see that concept actually done justice.
That Down Air Hitbox is nuts
You think that’s nuts up air is pre nerf sized
7:42 That's not saying that every enemy has a grass resistance. It's saying that, with one exception, the damage multiplier for grass attacks is always the same as the damage multiplier for slash attacks. For example, there's a couple enemies, such as the Sword Primid, that take 0.7x damage from both grass and slash attacks. The vast majority of enemies take 1.0x damage from both grass and slash attacks.
There's not a single enemy in the SSE that's meaningfully weak to grass damage, so things still suck for grass, but not nearly to the same extent as you were saying.
The fire-water-grass type effectiveness thing would have been more balanced if it only applied to another PKMN Trainer's Pokémon, and not to EVERY playable character. It was cruel from Sakurai to load the game with fiery attacks but water and grass attacks could only be found on Squirtle and Ivysaur respectively, giving Charizard and Squirtle an unfair advantage over Ivysaur
Fast forward one major mod, a gender transition, a super move, and significant frame buffs later and Ivy becomes so strong she became the unofficial mascot for Project M for a good period of time
I legit thought Olimar and purple Pikmin count as Grass-damage when I was a child and I'm still shocked they don't. I get the Pikmins are supposed to have different elements, but the fact that they ARE plants and have not any Grass-damage in the whole kit bothers me alot.
Image if all the Pokémon had this in ultimate
no
Ivysaur loses to Pyra -2 in that timeline
Dear God no
-Ivy dies to GnW fair @ 100
-Steve NIL Upsmash finishers kill Ivy @ 70
-Holy water does 50% to Ivy
-Ramram does increased knockback to Ivy at ledge (can’t come back to stage w/ switching if hit @ 40)
-etc...
Also what about other weaknesses ivysaur is also weak to psychic so ness and Lucas psi attacks would be effective also squirtle is week to electric and charizard is weak to rock and electric
Also lucario is weak to fire
Honestly, I'd low key love to see the elemental weakness and resistance thing expanded on. Not just to other pokemon (ex. Lucario being weak to Fire but resist Dark), but also in who deals what elemental damage. Like if they doubled down and made it so Pirhanna Plant had a bunch of moves that did Grass damage and Corrin being able to deal Water damage. Maybe even introduce new elements, like if Corrin could also do Dragon damage, but Jigglypuff resists Dragon attacks. Also you could have it so Isaac Golden Sun is added and he does a bunch of elemental shenanigans.
I think removing the system outright was the smart move, but man, if you're gonna be weird and experimental at least double down on it.
There would be some oddball ones for sure, especially since Pokemon really shouldn't have exclusive authority in determining Smash's types.
Palutena and Mythra are doing Light damage, Peach and Zelda deal some Magic, some characters might have a totally unique element that nobody else has, like Bayonetta having Umbral element attacks, or Rosalina having Astral damage, which is going to uniquely define their matchups.
And maybe it gets weirder. Do Ganondorf, Sephiroth, and White Pikmin REALLY do the same "dark" damage? Is it the same or different to Incineroar's Darkest Lariat, or Mewtwo's Shadow Ball?
Is Mewtwo's psychic stuff the same as the Mother psychic stuff?
Is a bite attack slashing, piercing, or bludgeoning?
Are Ike and Cloud's swords slashing or blunt?
Is Aura its own type, or just Fighting?
Is every standard attack in the game Fighting or Normal?
Are swords Steel?
Does Yoshi have an Egg type?
Does Game and Watch deal Slashing with his hammers and such, because they're two dimensional?
See, I hard agree with this sentiment. They just didn't have to go SO hard with the type weakness stuff. It can be smaller things, like inflicts slightly more percent or maybe the "super effective" move doesn't withhold its knockback & percent staling. For some reason they went with "lets make them either die or survive more 10% of the time" and to me that is ABSURD
@@aprinnyonbreak1290 bro out herr asking the real questions.
Maybe a side mode but that would be terrible for the main game
@@aprinnyonbreak1290 In Smash for 3DS, Darkness is actually treated as Fire, as Chandelure absorbs both elements, even though it's only supposed to absorb Fire.
I feel like stamina is not an inherently bad mechanic, but on the other hand, WHY does it regenerate at a snails pace?
It would have been 200,000x better to just let it go back up to 100 when you lose a stock, or regenerate at least 2stam/s when not in use. They really wanted you to COMMIT to using one for a whole stock, even with Ivy's weaknesses
holy shit roboquest music detected
i chose the song we've all heard 10,000 times too LOL
@@Brawlternative You gotta use Forced and Natural for the Meta Knight Video:tm:
I was wondering why it sounded so familiar
Forget that, there was music from the damn Madagascar 1 game ost in this video, that was awesome
if there ever comes a video about non-functioning moves, Pit N-air takes one of the top spots since it’s a multihit that basically hits only once, and is just outclassed by every other aerial in his kit
This guy has the craziest background music if you check where it comes from, but it works so well.
SO many games have such good OSTs that are basically lost to time. I make an effort to find the best of the best and use them, since they were made to be heard :)
Good stuff, I was vaguely aware of Brawl's elemental attack stuff. This video did a really good job in clarifying it.
No wonder I was raging on this level with a lot of fire in the subspace emissary when you play Bulbizar for the first time.
7:45 To elaborate on the text here, it's saying that all enemies except Primids (actually, all types of Primids except Sword Primid) have paired damage resistances for grass- and slash-attacks; i.e. if their slash damage resistance is 1.0x, their grass resistance is also 1.0x. That being said, the point here still stands, as the only enemies who take anything above 1.0x damage from grass are enemies who are uniformly weak to all damage types (ex. Floow).
Tbh I think the biggest thing is they wanted them to be unique. Smash was made as a party game to be played casual and it was a fun gimmick for that. The devs didn't develop this game from a competitive standpoint, so overall I think it was a cool thing. Just not competitively.
I wholeheartedly agree! I think a fleshed out version of this with visuals that match the "type weakness," maybe a special sound or something to make it more clear? etc etc is an absolutely bonkers cool idea for a character like Pokemon Trainer. I at least wish they fleshed it out in Subspace more, since I remember dying a lot as Ivysaur since coincidentally there's a bunch of fire guys in his part of the campaign
@@Brawlternativehonestly, part of why i want an overhaul of the FE roster is to try this idea again with the weapon triangle.
i get it but even in a casual context stamina is a really unfun mechanic. like let me play the pokemon i wanna play
Stamina still suck on a casual level. Imagine wanting to play with your favorite Nintendo character, but the game decide to punish you for using the character you like by nuking their damage and knock-back.
Unless you want every FE unit to use every weapon, it's not happening.@@noukan42
Thanks to youtube for showing me all your vids since the first one:)
The fact that Ivysaur was by far the best Pokémon on the trainer's team in early Ultimate really shows how much they didn't want Brawl Ivysaur to happen again.
i lit up when i heard the fucking madagascar gamecube soundtrack lmfaooo
I was watching the Coney/Alpharad stream live like a month ago and immediately grabbed the OST, the Gloria stages are all such bops
nice that I'm one of 5 people on the earth that knew it was from the Madagascar video game lol
Killer music choices in this vid. No other youtube video would use Pictionary and World of Horror music in the same vid
I really try to find & implement choice cuts for the soundtrack to my videos! I always feel like it gives it a different vibe than using, like, Xenoblade Chronicles 3 Brilliant Wings (which is a banger in its own right, but overused lol) thanks for the kind words!!
I'm honestly surprised they didn't make Squirtle and Charizard also weak to electricity. But this is not surprising considering we're talking about Brawl lol.
BRO ROBOQUEST MUSIC IN YOUR INTRO IS A POWER MOVE. That music is so damn good and im glad to meet more cultured people on the Internet lol. Also, banger content, well earned sub.
Cool that you use the roboquest ost, it’s a really underrated game and its music is incredible.
Its also worth noting his up smash is strong, yet so slow and makes you really vulnerable. His up and down air attacks are good but they have a lot of end lag too. He's just an overall difficult character to play and win with.
Great video, love how you even brought up Subspace. I love finding out about mechanical quirks in the adventure modes or other modes in general. Keep up the good work my dude
Ivysaur was a sleeping beast waiting for ultimate
I love the NES Pictionary music during the fire montage, it really deserves to be more well known
ROBOQUEST MUSIC USED RAAAAAHHHHH🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
It's truly incredible how much of a glow up Ivysaur had an ultimate. Went from being bullied by mechanics on top of bad frame data and kill power, to having one of the best projectiles in the game some of the best kill moves and all of those horrifying mechanics removed all in one fell swoop.
Then we have Ultimate Ivysaur with his GIGANTIC hitboxes on his U-Air and D-Air.
I love the use of the Roboquest soundtrack in the opening. You even synced up the drop to the channel intro, mad respect.
EDIT: oh shit and Neon White?! goated.
I was so proud of the second "drop" hitting right when I start explaining Stamina lol. Using the Roboquest OST felt like cheating, the hype is baked in
I legit didnt realize it was Roboquest music til that drop 0:27
and suddenly you were back at Canyon lmfao
Roboquest sweeep
@@Brawlternativecanyon my beloved
It's crazy to think that the brawl dev team's trick for having people use all 3 pokemon was not "let's make the switch between all 3 easy and fast, and also balance them so that no one is clearly better than the other" but "let's make the current pokemon unplayable after a certain amount of time".
And then they also made it as hard and risky as possible to switch your pokemon, because fuck them I guess
It's kinda of insane that they could have evened out the weakness by giving either or both Squirtle and Charizard a weakness to electric attacks and Ivysaur a resistance to them, but noooo. Gotta have the OG type triangle 🙄
Bro you’re putting out the best smash content nowadays, ur like the asumsaus of brawl. Keep it up man love these vids
Also the seinfeld pop up is hilarious, loved that
I added that at like 8am this morning(had NOT slept yet) so I'm glad its a hit LOLL thank you for the nice words!!
"Part of me believes they didn't think at all"
This *is* the game that intentionally added a completely random tripping mechanic, so...
wake up babe new brawlternative video dropped
The way Ivysaur and Pokemon trainer as whole was vastly improved in Smash Ultimate did wonders for them
Wake up! New Brawlternative upload!
This busted elemental spread really makes you appreciate the 'weirder' picks for elemental attacks in Ultimate. They went the extra mile because this situation was clearly haunting them. They even made blue pikmin do water damage.
This channel helped me get back into learning about Brawl tech.
This is another legendary video by you! I love this stuff so much!
I mean, they certainly succeeded at making people want to switch Pokémon
By making it so that nobody wants to play as one of them
Great video also hearing Neon White AND World of Horror tunes makes me very very happy, great music taste.
You’re a legend for bothering to list all the music used in the video. You’d be surprised at how many really big channels don’t do that and it drives me crazy. Many a song that low key kinda went crazy in the background of a video have been lost to time that way
This was a fantastic video. As a kid I loved playing Ivysaur in Brawl, loved the changes the Project M team made to it, and loved the massive buffs Ultimate gave to it. Nice to see it spotlighted on this channel!
holy shit NES pictionary OST usage, fuck yeah
"his best matchup being himself at 50-50" is such a good line
world of horror outro so scary
ROBOQUEST MUSIC !?!?
AND NEON WHITE???? ACTUAL BANGERS
Imagine if they went all out with the pokemon type mechanic. Give every fighter and their moves a type that only interacts against pokemon characters.
Like, sure dude. Make ganondorf a dark/fighting type and make him take 4x damage from jigglypuff rest (a psychic type move).
Or sure, make charizard take normal damage from ice moves due to being fire/flying
In that case characters like kirby or Megaman would be broken
Gannon would take no damage from rest, psychic is immune to dark
@@gjmguy7994oh God...
Imagine going for a rest and then just being stuck next to Ganon. 😨
You do realize you gave Ganon the Dark type, right.
Well, it makes me feel a little less livid every time I get bodied by an Ivysaur in ultimate, because if anyone deserved to become good it was ivysaur
ivysaur more like um uh uh um pissosaur!!!!!!!!!!
More like Ivysore
More like Eyesore
One thing to note is that Switching Pokemon in Brawl is a whole lot slower and has a notable period where the incoming Pokemon can get hurt. If you don't create space for the switch your foe can hard punish you. I remember clips where people would try to raw switch in Free For Alls only to be the target of Falcon and Warlock Punches and Ike FSmashes.
Absolutely. The hardware limitations did not serve Pokemon Trainer well, if it had the much faster switching like we have in Ultimate I think Stamina would have been much less of a problem. But you're forced to play neutral with a 22%+ KB and damage nerf until you can find a 3s opening, which against some characters(MK, Icies, Diddy) is almost never possible
Wake up babe, Brawlternative posted
this channel was literally JUST started and im already hyped when i see an upload
Project M really did magic with Ivysaur. They made him so much fun.
God I love your call-to-action moments. (3:00) They are always great moments since they aren’t obnoxious while achieving your objective. The goofy style of this one was hilarious. I truly hope that they work because your content is top notch. Keep up the great work. 👍🏻
They actually do!!! Maybe not as well as a blatant one, but they certainly bring it a little bit more numbers which is nice :) I try to have fun with it, I noticed the "elemental effects" section was a bit boring for people who know that already so I thought i'd throw in an interesting distraction there. Glad it's not coming across as annoying!!!
@@Brawlternative The only thing that could ever be portrayed as annoying is how many exclamation marks you use in your comments lol. Everything else is perfect. Hope your channel keeps growing and that you continue to put out great content. Keep up the great work. 👍
@@johnstevenson3628 sorry! i love exclamation marks! i had to hold back for this comment! thanks for the nice words :)
Sidenote: Your editing style and quality of work is arguably a massive reason for your rapid growth. So I wanted to asked, what made you get into editing and how’d you get so good at it? Additionally, what software do you use/recommend? I’m always curious to see the process behind the work. Anyways, thanks for your time.
@@johnstevenson3628 Hey, thanks so much for the kind words! I’m a professional graphic designer and I’ve been in the esports industry doing tournament production stuff(usually overlay and asset production, not running the stream/tournament itself) for a very long time so I’m pretty familiar with the market and my main demographic. I picked up editing about a year ago, but I’ve been told my workflow is unusual since i mostly try to apply static graphic design principles to my work instead of what someone with a video background would think to do(which is why my videos have a somewhat “unified” feel in presentation, which I’d like to move away from a bit in the future). I use the full Adobe suite of programs, but my videos are like 30/70 photoshop/premiere with some after effects sprinkled in if i need something specific i can’t do in Premiere. Thanks for your interest in my work :)
what id ivysaur was called freakysaur and instead of vine whip he had regular whip
why did they not make squirtle weak to electric moves if they were so determined to have the stupid type weakness mechanic
even the SUBSPACE enemies are resistant to grass ???? INSANE
Its crazy how much insanity there is in this game when you open the hood just a little bit. Love your channel man, keep it up.
The fire list was so long that an ad started in the middle of it
You know what? If they actually decided to give them all the strength and weaknesses that makes sense, then maybe there would've been a point to Ivysaur as the only one of the three that resists electricity, while the other two are weak to it.
The Roboquest music caught me by surprise
Someones probably already mentioned this, and it doesnt really work the same way, but element properties also affect how strong an attack needs to be to outright kill different colors of Pikmin on contact.
(At least it was that way in PM... maybe they added that specifically...)
Nope!! That was in Brawl too. iirc Red were fully immune to Fire, Yellow to electric attacks, so on so forth. It's a cool little mechanic :)
Only OGs remember the old title and thumbnail
I loved that old thumbnail, I'll definitely change it back after the new one works it's magic lol
I just discover this channel. We love brawl. Thank you. And greetings from Spain, keep it the great work and content ✨
The revelation that Blue Pikmin don't do water damage blew my mind
This is such a high-effort way of presenting information that may be useful three times at most in my life. It's very entertaining, and I wish it wasn't so I would use my finite time on this Earth better.
The information used to be great at parties(but Brawl is not usually at parties anymore)
YESSIR you making me look forward to every Thursdays. Amazing video as always SUBSPACE EMISSARY MENTIONED. We are now one step closer to a subspace emissary video lol
On one hand I'm happy to be watching such good content while it's fresh. On the other I wish I found this channel later so I could binge a load of your videos
Loving your work man, keep it up!
It has probably being said many times, but a Brawl channel in 2024 is not what I was expecting, much less with such high quality editing, explanation and entertainment
ROBOQUEST MUSIC IS PEAK
fun fact! despite all of this, world record speedruns of brawl classic mode use pokemon trainer. Ivysaur's up smash is strong enough to one-shot nearly all of the characters in most levels due to the increased knockback characters take on easy difficulty, and runners switch to Charizard for the master hand boss battle because rock smash has such a massive damage output
sick video man love this format of video essay
I think the craziest part is that after all of those weaknesses Ganon is still worse
It really seems like the biggest problem with the type weakness system is that it was not nearly detailed and expansive enough, almost like it was tacked on as an afterthought by someone who had literally never played a second of Pokemon. Explosions should not have been fire-type moves; they're literally Normal-type in every Pokemon game. A fucking electric plasma whip should not have been fire-type. Not to mention, water is not the only damage type that grass is resistant to, and there are a LOT of electric attacks in the game (Or at least, they certainly look like electric attacks, goddess knows if they even have an electric damage type coded in the game) and quite a few attacks that could be classed as ground-type as well (anything that involves a shockwave, Kirby Rock, etc).
Seriously, this is the same studio that gave Mega Man a walking / jumping projectile jab, went back and coded surface material types for every single platform in every single stage for Steve's ability, made hundreds of interactions for Hero's spells, and gave Kirby everyone's code in order to make their NB function. Why did they half-ass this mechanic so hard???
Ivysaur is a Grass/Poison type Pokémon, so i dunno why they don't play with the poison aspect of the character...
In Brawl, Ganondorf and Olimar (specifically White Pikmin) can deal darkness damage as a substitute for poison, so why wouldn't they include that for Ivysaur?
thanks for the video, I was one of the best Pokemon Trainers in Brawl and the character killed my love for the game