As a former amphib pilot myself, I think that CL-415 is one of the coolest aircraft in existence and the folks who fly these things against fires have some serious brass in their pants. These folks are flying in challenging terrain, at very low altitudes, in strong turbulence. Not only that, but they're making landing after landing in rough water off the coast to scoop their loads.
Good show guys ! French Canadian 🇨🇦 here from Québec, where these CL-415 were born by the same company that originally invented the snowmobile ! Canadair was a subdivision from Bombardier long time ago. These birds and crew members made us very proud to be a Canadian theses days
@@gram8821 I saw a piece of the part they had to send, spar support, it was interesting. Lucky it did not puncture the fuel in the wings (in separate bags/compartments).
The aircraft in question C-GQBE is listed as CL-215-6B11 which is the production block for the CL-415, being a turboprop upgrade and redesign of the CL-215. The CL-415's Super Scooper nickname is because of the predecessor CL-215 being called Scooper. Just calling them Super Scooper instead of CL-415 is much easier on the media.
@@pin65371 Usually you would go from Super to Ultra. But I don't know if the upgrades justify a nickname change yet, apparently they are sill just using the DHC-515 designation and calling it Super Scooper. Which might be just the way to go with the media frenzy around the nickname.
If you sign up for the Watch Duty app, you can see how crowded the skies are over these fires as the app shows all the aircraft involved. The DC-10 did a water drop at a Kirtland AFB airshow and it is awe inspiring to see.
Just a side note to the DC-10's fighting the fires in LA (Mover asked what to call them)...#'s 912 and 914 are former Northwest Airlines DC-10-30's( both of which I flew as a First Officer back in the late '80s). While losing an engine is always abnormal ( lost one between HNL and LAX but got to meet the late Olivia Newton John) a concern, but we have to remember that they aren't bagged out with gas, only needing enough from point of departure to fire and back and they aren't also packed out with passengers, chow, and assorted seats etc. The Phos-Chek can be pickled off anywhere and those 2 remaining engines are more than capable of getting them out of the hills. That thing looks like a dump truck but has a ton of energy in those engines. Fly Navy...subscribed to both (of your separate) channels even though I am also a former P-3 puke. PS... Drones suck if not flown with due regard.
Yes, there were TFRs in place and YES, even recreational drone pilots should have known about it. There is a short, online course called "TRUST", which ALL recreational drone pilots are supposed to take, including a test at the end. This is to ensure that even hobbyists are aware of the airspace issues. This is regardless of the weight of the drone. Registration is a separate matter. As you all have said, the aircrews that are fighting these fires, be they CL-415 crews, heavy tanker crews, or helo people, are really hanging it out to try and protect the public. The absolute last thing they need is some careless, ignorant civilian flying a half pound piece of FOD in their AOR.
How does a recreational drone pilot get notified of a TFR ? Do they have to check in before they launch like anybody else?? they're not licensed , are they. ? Even a lightweight drone in the wrong place is dangerous. Or maybe 100 lightweight drones all small enough to not need licensing. 😮.. sorry just thinking out loud. This is a really a huge problem. I think the friendly neighborhood Spider-Man could do it.😅
@@paulwoodman5131 As others have noted, when a drone weighs less than .55 lbs., it doesn't have to be registered. But even recreational drone pilots who fly really small ones still have the requirement to take the TRUST training, which should make them aware of airspace requirements. Regardless of the size of the drone, recreational pilots are supposed to use one of several smart phone apps to request authorization to fly in any airspace which is restricted. Most drones will notify the pilot upon start-up, if they are attempting to fly in controlled airspace, but the drone's software may not be aware of Temporary Flight Restrictions. Pilots are still required to check that stuff. And of course, they still can't fly above 400 AGL. The problem with drones is that unlike manned aircraft, or even radio-controlled models, these drones don't really require much skill to fly. Unfortunately, any idiot with 500 bucks can go down to a Best Buy and acquire everything he needs to do the kind of damage depicted in the photos of the CL-415 water bomber.
@kevinmadore1794 I am forced to update my drone firmware every 30 days (DJI mini3) If I don't update, I'm limited to like 30 feet and really slow movement. Oh, and this is the first I've heard of the TRUST test. While I don't follow drone stuff that closely, I have been semi following, so it wouldn't surprise me to find out that 90% or more of rec drone flyers have no clue.
@@paulwoodman5131 How does a general aviation pilot at some little uncontrolled airport, without an IFR flight plan get notified about a TFR? They don't get notified and frequently bust TFR's. Whether the pilot is in the airplane or remote it's their responsibility to check for TFRs. Even if they check before they takeoff that's not a guarantee. They could be flying along happy and dumb when the TFR is issued and they wouldn't know it. The difference between GA pilots and novice remote pilots is that most GA pilots get more education and take it more seriously. Ironically, when remote Pilots take their flying seriously, GA Pilots like to laugh at them and say they're just playing with toys.
@@paulwoodman5131 Operating a drone in any airspace requires the operator to know how to find airspace restrictions. There are many phone apps that will give operators up to date information and they can use the same (free) resources we pilots use, such as tfr.faa.gov/tfr_map_ims/html/index.html.
I love these planes. A few years ago, they were scooping from the lake our cottage is on in Northwestern Ontario, maybe about 500m in front of our picture window. Hmm, I have to find that video now.
What a stupid remark. Do you have any idea how many drones reside around that area? Any idea how drones are tracked? What a TFR is? If you did your ignorance wouldn't be so obvious.
@@Headtube I'm a holder of both Private Pilot and part 107 certificates. My "ignorance" is based on observation. 95% of the drone operators don't follow the rules, and that hurts the 5% of us who do. Personal attacks have no place on this channel, take your bitterness elsewhere.
@@jasonwooden Well you place yourself mighty high don't you. The upper 5%. Your arrogance is amazing. No other comment is needed. The rest of us just ignore TRF's? Jerk!
LE is still grappling with how to safely terminate pursuits with technology & what we were looking at 20 years ago, but still hasn’t been accomplished universally. Drones are an even larger challenge now.
Besides that, under current law they don't have the authority to interfere with an aircraft. Anybody can track an aircraft but only the feds can interfere with it.
Mover, Gonky Super Scooper is a loving name us Canadians use. The actual name is the Canadair CL 415 and CL 515 is the larger version. They got the name cause they have two large scoops under the belly to load water. They can load make the drop and go reload and be back on fireground in five to ten minutes
At least the CL-415 is twin engine so might have a shot if a drone takes out an engine. The AT-802 Fireboss is single engine aircraft that is widely used all over the world as a waterbomber.
you have less than 20% the performance if you loose an engine on a two engine aircraft. Not only does the remaining engine have to pick up the load, the induced drag of an out of trim plane just pisses away performance. When low and slow like they explain, it's a recipe for disaster, on top of the fire disaster itself.
And 14 out of 95 built have been destroyed in accidents. While the propeller will autofeather and lower drag, you've now got drag of a dead engine pod and out of trim thrust, at low altitude and speed, in mountainous terrain while lugging 1621 gallons of water and around 1550 gallons of fuel, which is a hell of a lot of mass to try to sling around in thermals and Santa Anna winds. A disaster upon a disaster is never a good thing, as it increases the danger to all around the fire region. The operator likely knew what happened and if not, swiftly learned from the news. Admitting to it now is a hell of a lot better in the eyes of law enforcement and courts than having them investigate, then look for and find the operator.
I was surprised they said it was the ground crew that noticed it, so seems like the crew itself didn't see or feel the collision, so they may not know the exact area or time on that day. The parts they found must have been inside the wing, would be surprised if they found the rest, though not sure from pics if that is 50% or more of it.
The situation is definitely jacked up, but back in my crop dusting days I’ve had more damage than that because of hitting a duck, put some hundred mile per hour tape over the damage and finished the season
The TFR doesn't always cover the entire operating territory of the firefighting aircraft. They are constantly leaving the TFR low-level to scoop more water. So entirely possible that the drone was being flown outside the TFR when the collision took place. This doesn't absolve the drone operator AT ALL, but TFRs aren't foolproof for these types of ops.
Exactly. I am in PA they were fighting a fire 16 miles away from me. We'll guess what an air tractor flew over our house at tree top. It was going back to base 90 miles away. It nearly hit my nebiores ham Rado tower that's 60 feet. ABG. We have also had a fixed wing and helicopter crash over the years. With our elevation being 1800 feet and other places being 800 feet.
I worked on 2 big forest fires when a young puppy, and these were in lightly populated areas, but BIG! I don't think that most people have any idea how completely out range of any experience that you have, without being in an aerial attack. The noise itself, close up, is unforgettable, and watching a fire take out 100 metres of forested hillsides in something like 30 SECONDS... it's damned dangerous work on the front lines, and the aircraft and equipment operators deserve a lot of respect, and the "grunts" on the ground, man, that is tough, and often, dangerous labor!
"Super Scooper" was a name given to the plane and used once in a promotional brochure. Then everyone agreed to politely forget about it. Like the A10 being officially the Thunderbolt II. We call them Canadair water bombers in Canada, but that's not flashy enough for the yanks.
I know 2 people that use rather large drones for photography, they had absolutely no idea that they were supposed to be following certain rules. It's really sketchy right now. Unfortunately I think we're going to have to have a couple terrible accidents before people figure it out.
Drones are highly common at the amateur events at tracks I’ve been to. Usually pretty professional behaving videographers. But I’ve never seen one above 50ft. But with tall tree tops and a raging fire I’m guessing you need to be much much higher to get an above view.
The Scoopers will drop water 100 feet over fire and the access in and out of water means they're flying low, a lot. It was an unfortunate hit but it's a lesson learned that announcements need to be made and people need to be informed. The scoopers coming from Canada are largely deployed in back country and low density areas so it's probably not been an issue until now.
DJI has apparently removed geofencing. I use the same model drone as in this incident to inspect roofs here in Teton County. I was able to use a drone without going through the rigamarole surrounding these restrictions within miles of the Jackson Hole airport. That's good. I shouldn't be restricted from getting my drone off the ground to thirty feet to get some work done.
Yeah was watching another video said they go about 100 ft. Dudes shouldn’t be flying drones in that area. At minimum he lost his drone. Max he gets charged.
These planes and their previous versions have been firefighting in Spain 4 decades. Their Spanish Airforce pilots do a great job, not only in Spain, but also in other countries. Btw, the former Yugoslav Airforce also flew the Cl-215 before the fell of the Soviet Union and allied dictatorships.
DJI has a system that law enforcement uses it will track all the DJI stuff in the sky for sure. And during I believe it was the race in Las Vegas they were bringing down a lot of drones using what they said was a different system.
@jerseyshoredroneservices225 yeah they actually mention that in the clip. Says its a 15k fine but the FAA controls airspace but shows lvpd arresting a drone operator during a race. Who actually knows what happened I just know the tech is there
Drones, when the product and the wallet exceed the intelligence of the consumers....I continue to keep the environment and the ecosystem in my prayers.🙏🏻
This was a small (sub 1 pound) DJI drone - they recovered the drone itself. This was clearly a breach of TFR rules, and the "pilot" clearly did something to get around the build-in flight restrictions, and to make it even worse DJI have announced that they're not going to enforce restrictions like TFRs around wildfires, etc. any more, so expect to see this sort of thing a lot more.
It's not clear whatsoever. Those planes and other aircraft frequently fly out of the TFR to get water and frequently stay low level all the way back to base. It may turn out to have been someone associated with the operation who was flying the drone. It wouldn't be the first time.
I'm curious about that. The CL-215/415 has been around for many years, but the term "Super Scooper" seems to be more recent. When the aircraft was under development, I recall that Aviation Week & Space Technology simply referred to them as CL-415 Water Bombers. Is there an official name in Canada?
Inspected some assemblies on these aircraft on production line. Called them 415. French call them Canadair which was a government entity before it was sold to Bombardier.
California rents the Super Scooper when it's off season for Canadian Wildfires. They cost something like $30,000,000 to purchase and $515/ hour to operate (I assume that doesn't pay for the pilots). The state of California rents them for about $5,000,000 for 3 months.
I was just thinking that these bombers are doing a job like military, with heavy loads, and NOE, like fatally low if anything goes wrong...no enemy "fire", but air conditions over the fire are seriously tricky... Then, add in the possibility of a drone strike to an engine, or into the windshield! Anyway, you guys, as actual military pilots, probably can "feel" the edge!
Birmingham nor any other race track facility can ban anything from the air space above. They don't have the authority to regulate the airspace all they can do is ask the faa to issue a flight restriction. What they can do is make rules against people standing on their property and operating whatever, anything, including a drone.
people don't understand it might only be a light weight drone but when you take in the consideration of speed of the plane it gets a whole lot worse than one might think. let us not forget what happened to the space shuttle just from a piece of foam. they were not supposed to fly they're in the first place you're not just damaging the plane you're putting the pilots lives in jeopardy
Looking at the damage and the location of the impact, my best guess is that it was likely a tethered drone this aircraft collided with. Law enforcement and life guards have and use those types of drones a lot, especially on beaches. For those types of applications whenever a drone needs to fly for a longer time the media probably use tethered drones well.
These considerations always make me think how I get totally infuriated whenever a jolly journalist enthusiastically presents the next flying car which will resolve traffic jams in cities because instead of millions of cars queuing on roads we'll have millions of flying cars happily bringing people straight to work and back during rush hours...
It's a very busy airspace. It wasn't too hard to find planes surveying the fire area. In addition to everything else, insurance companies probably have drones up too. Like, they want to get a picture of the house burnt down so that they can quickly pay out an insurance claim. No insurance company wants to get called out for not paying out.
The bulk of domestic drones are DJI and hence have no fly zones that prevent the drones from flying. Did the authorities make the area a no fly zones and notify DJI ? I certainly don't agree with any drone being up but can imagine some homeowners using them to see the way the fire is going ?
I use a drone to inspect roofs here in Teton County. Near the Jackson Hole airport I generally have to go through a process to get permission just to get the drone off the ground. I was out there couple days ago and was able to fly without a problem. Glad to see it. I shouldn't need permission just to get thirty feet off the ground.
Remote ID is useless! Range is extremely limited so unless someone with an ID reader is right underneath the thing they won't register it. Big waste of time for everyone and not well thought out. Unfortunately since the public can't be trusted to fly responsibly and according to the rules, stricter regulation of sales or enhanced geofencing by vendors is probably called for. But the horse has already left the barn there as well, since there are already millions of unregistered drones out there.
It's retired unfortunately and currently at the aviation museum here in Victoria BC. It's just too old, next to impossible to get parts and too expensive to operate and maintain. Such a shame because it definitely would make a huge impact on fighting this horrible fire
the names of pilot Éric Pelletier, Carl Villeneuve, Julien Flouquet, Pierre Boulanger, Karol Bouchard et François Lapierre. Mercredi, dans le ciel gris de Québec, ces pilotes, copilotes et techniciens se sont envolés à bord de deux avions Canadair CL-415 vers la Californie
CalFire, which deals with non City fires like wildfires always secures the airspace they will be operating in. Nothing is allowed to fly in this zone that they are not in control of. They are incredibly well organized and fight wildfires like a major military action. Los Angles county is controlled by inept incompetent political types. They have caused a lot of suffering with their incompetency.
i used to want to get a drone just for fun to zip around and check out my area from above.. but cant without going through a bunch of hurdles simply because i live within 5 miles of an airbase. unlike most of these recreational people.. i atleast looked up to see if there would be any conflicts with my operating it due to my location and turns out there is. so ended up saving the money and spent it on games instead XD
De Haviland Canada sent parts over and it was flying again by the 15th... They have a big team on lease by California with multiple crews and techs to allow for R&R. I heard the chief Pilot from Québec saying they needed a rest two days ago. Another team was being flown in from here, plus 2 extra bombers, because it's a CRAZY fire season this year... And they're starting a new production run on an updated model. They merged Viking (who had bought the rights) and are calling the new plane the DHC-515... It's also got add-ons for insecticide spraying and other new uses for that kit, to open more markets for it... Can't wait to see open air Insecticide lakes for it to load up... (just kidding with the last one..., except the way the USA is going under Trump, maybe it'll be legal there...).
Outlaw privately owned drones until the licensing is similar to the private pilot license and start going after the drone manufacturers for these kinds of accidents and costs.
From the images of recovered parts in the wing, it's clear this was only a 1/2 pound drone. At .55 pounds and under, the FAA does not require registration or remoteId when used for recreational purposes. That does not excuse the flight being conducted in a TFR, it only complicates enforcement when an event occurs.
Very easy for C-UAS systems to take down drones and drop them out of the sky, it’s also possible to hijack a drone in the air and send it to a predetermined landing spot with some systems. As for remote ID, that’s practically useless because of the limited range (500’-2500’ either Bluetooth or wireless).
When those water bombers are picking up water they are flying a couple of feet about the lake/ocean. They then have to fly into an area and try to drop the water on target while not being able to see because of smoke and battling the shifting winds caused by a burning fire. Can't think of a dumber thing to do they put up a drone to make their job harder.
A reasonable question asked on another channel was with regard to a scenario where you are person, maybe a family, on the ground seemingly surrounded by fire, you have a drone and you are trying to find your way out... would you launch it? Obviously they are not saying this is the case in this scenario, but there's a lot of vilification of the individual without consideration of all possible scenarios. Just so lucky that the crew didn't get hurt. So disappointing that the aircraft was put out of operations due to this crazy circumstance. If it is media - they know better, and should be punished to the full extent.
here's some great footage from Europe where they are a little more extreme in their attack, ruclips.net/video/33eg0m_JMxw/видео.html. In Canada most of our forest terrain is level, so the guys going to Quebec in CL415 must develop some experience in the canyons, ocean, and smaller reservoirs, etc.
Have you seen the size of some of these drones? They are not squishy like birds... Imagine taking one in the windscreen of a water bomber or canopy of a fast mover? Or fan blades... people need to start using some brain cells. I don’t think it’s selfish, it’s idiotic.
I know this is an aviation channel but you guys talk as though every goofball with an Amazon drone knows what a TFR is. I doubt the kid who got a drone last Christmas pulls out Foreflight every time he puts the drone up.
That kid is supposed to get a hobbyist certificate from the FAA. The problem is that Knowledge of this requirement by novices just getting into the hobby, is practically non-existent.
here's the story of the development, going back to the 50s and post-WW2, pretty interesting and now back in production with new orders from France, EU and others. ruclips.net/video/mJ_iZIDjqoM/видео.html
Drones are like social-media. Dangerous and unregulated. Why the government does not regulate the sale and operation of drones is beyond me. They should not be sold, without proper, regulated training, a full license, flight plans and restrictions, like “real” aircraft. They are not toys. Fortunately this incident did not result in a loss of life. But it is only a matter of time.
It was an UNDER 250 Gram drone so not subject to Remote ID or other rules. side note DJI just (With latest update) removed GEO FENCING witch stops Drones from taking off where their not supposed to fly. WHY because Congress were going to ban all DJI drone sales in the USA.
Thanks for all the love for Canada, gentlemen. Cheers from the Great White North
As a former amphib pilot myself, I think that CL-415 is one of the coolest aircraft in existence and the folks who fly these things against fires have some serious brass in their pants. These folks are flying in challenging terrain, at very low altitudes, in strong turbulence. Not only that, but they're making landing after landing in rough water off the coast to scoop their loads.
You guys have made a great bird, with great pilots flying!! Thank You!!
Good show guys ! French Canadian 🇨🇦 here from Québec, where these CL-415 were born by the same company that originally invented the snowmobile ! Canadair was a subdivision from Bombardier long time ago. These birds and crew members made us very proud to be a Canadian theses days
A Canadian here I hear that these pilots are pretty accurate in their water dropping I'm so proud to be Canadian at the moment
Thank you Canada .
It's pretty great that DeHavilland got it back to Operational in about 3 days
Did they? Wow
Good sheet metal guys are worth their weight in gold.
noodles and super glue
Silver tape works great.
@@gram8821 I saw a piece of the part they had to send, spar support, it was interesting. Lucky it did not puncture the fuel in the wings (in separate bags/compartments).
The aircraft in question C-GQBE is listed as CL-215-6B11 which is the production block for the CL-415, being a turboprop upgrade and redesign of the CL-215.
The CL-415's Super Scooper nickname is because of the predecessor CL-215 being called Scooper. Just calling them Super Scooper instead of CL-415 is much easier on the media.
I wonder what they will call the CL-515 that is coming out? That is even bigger.
@@pin65371 Usually you would go from Super to Ultra. But I don't know if the upgrades justify a nickname change yet, apparently they are sill just using the DHC-515 designation and calling it Super Scooper. Which might be just the way to go with the media frenzy around the nickname.
@@pin65371 Super-Dooper-Scooper.. no brainer.
In Europe they call them Canadair, or Kanader (Croatia) based on the original manufacturer in Quebec. In Canada we call them water bombers.
Love seeing ALL the unconditional support for this natural disaster. The fight and the recovery from all the best of us. Cheers everyone. 🍁
If you sign up for the Watch Duty app, you can see how crowded the skies are over these fires as the app shows all the aircraft involved. The DC-10 did a water drop at a Kirtland AFB airshow and it is awe inspiring to see.
Just a side note to the DC-10's fighting the fires in LA (Mover asked what to call them)...#'s 912 and 914 are former Northwest Airlines DC-10-30's( both of which I flew as a First Officer back in the late '80s). While losing an engine is always abnormal ( lost one between HNL and LAX but got to meet the late Olivia Newton John) a concern, but we have to remember that they aren't bagged out with gas, only needing enough from point of departure to fire and back and they aren't also packed out with passengers, chow, and assorted seats etc. The Phos-Chek can be pickled off anywhere and those 2 remaining engines are more than capable of getting them out of the hills. That thing looks like a dump truck but has a ton of energy in those engines. Fly Navy...subscribed to both (of your separate) channels even though I am also a former P-3 puke. PS... Drones suck if not flown with due regard.
Yes, there were TFRs in place and YES, even recreational drone pilots should have known about it. There is a short, online course called "TRUST", which ALL recreational drone pilots are supposed to take, including a test at the end. This is to ensure that even hobbyists are aware of the airspace issues. This is regardless of the weight of the drone. Registration is a separate matter. As you all have said, the aircrews that are fighting these fires, be they CL-415 crews, heavy tanker crews, or helo people, are really hanging it out to try and protect the public. The absolute last thing they need is some careless, ignorant civilian flying a half pound piece of FOD in their AOR.
How does a recreational drone pilot get notified of a TFR ? Do they have to check in before they launch like anybody else?? they're not licensed , are they. ? Even a lightweight drone in the wrong place is dangerous. Or maybe 100 lightweight drones all small enough to not need licensing. 😮.. sorry just thinking out loud. This is a really a huge problem. I think the friendly neighborhood Spider-Man could do it.😅
@@paulwoodman5131 As others have noted, when a drone weighs less than .55 lbs., it doesn't have to be registered. But even recreational drone pilots who fly really small ones still have the requirement to take the TRUST training, which should make them aware of airspace requirements. Regardless of the size of the drone, recreational pilots are supposed to use one of several smart phone apps to request authorization to fly in any airspace which is restricted. Most drones will notify the pilot upon start-up, if they are attempting to fly in controlled airspace, but the drone's software may not be aware of Temporary Flight Restrictions. Pilots are still required to check that stuff. And of course, they still can't fly above 400 AGL. The problem with drones is that unlike manned aircraft, or even radio-controlled models, these drones don't really require much skill to fly. Unfortunately, any idiot with 500 bucks can go down to a Best Buy and acquire everything he needs to do the kind of damage depicted in the photos of the CL-415 water bomber.
@kevinmadore1794 I am forced to update my drone firmware every 30 days (DJI mini3) If I don't update, I'm limited to like 30 feet and really slow movement.
Oh, and this is the first I've heard of the TRUST test. While I don't follow drone stuff that closely, I have been semi following, so it wouldn't surprise me to find out that 90% or more of rec drone flyers have no clue.
@@paulwoodman5131
How does a general aviation pilot at some little uncontrolled airport, without an IFR flight plan get notified about a TFR?
They don't get notified and frequently bust TFR's.
Whether the pilot is in the airplane or remote it's their responsibility to check for TFRs. Even if they check before they takeoff that's not a guarantee. They could be flying along happy and dumb when the TFR is issued and they wouldn't know it.
The difference between GA pilots and novice remote pilots is that most GA pilots get more education and take it more seriously.
Ironically, when remote Pilots take their flying seriously, GA Pilots like to laugh at them and say they're just playing with toys.
@@paulwoodman5131 Operating a drone in any airspace requires the operator to know how to find airspace restrictions. There are many phone apps that will give operators up to date information and they can use the same (free) resources we pilots use, such as tfr.faa.gov/tfr_map_ims/html/index.html.
I love these planes. A few years ago, they were scooping from the lake our cottage is on in Northwestern Ontario, maybe about 500m in front of our picture window. Hmm, I have to find that video now.
It's like 95% of the drone operators give the other 5% a bad name.
The government itself gave drones the biggest bad name.
What a stupid remark. Do you have any idea how many drones reside around that area? Any idea how drones are tracked? What a TFR is? If you did your ignorance wouldn't be so obvious.
@@Headtube I'm a holder of both Private Pilot and part 107 certificates. My "ignorance" is based on observation. 95% of the drone operators don't follow the rules, and that hurts the 5% of us who do. Personal attacks have no place on this channel, take your bitterness elsewhere.
@@jasonwooden Well you place yourself mighty high don't you. The upper 5%. Your arrogance is amazing. No other comment is needed. The rest of us just ignore TRF's? Jerk!
@@Headtube Nailed it.
As of January 15th, Quebec sent 2 more planes + teams.
in Boise right now, following their trip across continent
LE is still grappling with how to safely terminate pursuits with technology & what we were looking at 20 years ago, but still hasn’t been accomplished universally. Drones are an even larger challenge now.
Besides that, under current law they don't have the authority to interfere with an aircraft. Anybody can track an aircraft but only the feds can interfere with it.
Mover, Gonky Super Scooper is a loving name us Canadians use. The actual name is the Canadair CL 415 and CL 515 is the larger version. They got the name cause they have two large scoops under the belly to load water. They can load make the drop and go reload and be back on fireground in five to ten minutes
The released photos are of a DJI Mini 3 Pro
At least the CL-415 is twin engine so might have a shot if a drone takes out an engine. The AT-802 Fireboss is single engine aircraft that is widely used all over the world as a waterbomber.
you have less than 20% the performance if you loose an engine on a two engine aircraft. Not only does the remaining engine have to pick up the load, the induced drag of an out of trim plane just pisses away performance. When low and slow like they explain, it's a recipe for disaster, on top of the fire disaster itself.
And 14 out of 95 built have been destroyed in accidents.
While the propeller will autofeather and lower drag, you've now got drag of a dead engine pod and out of trim thrust, at low altitude and speed, in mountainous terrain while lugging 1621 gallons of water and around 1550 gallons of fuel, which is a hell of a lot of mass to try to sling around in thermals and Santa Anna winds.
A disaster upon a disaster is never a good thing, as it increases the danger to all around the fire region.
The operator likely knew what happened and if not, swiftly learned from the news. Admitting to it now is a hell of a lot better in the eyes of law enforcement and courts than having them investigate, then look for and find the operator.
And if it's full of water...
I was surprised they said it was the ground crew that noticed it, so seems like the crew itself didn't see or feel the collision, so they may not know the exact area or time on that day. The parts they found must have been inside the wing, would be surprised if they found the rest, though not sure from pics if that is 50% or more of it.
The number of times fire ops has come to a halt because of drones is mind numbing. Being from one of the fire zones in LA, it's heartbreaking.
The situation is definitely jacked up, but back in my crop dusting days I’ve had more damage than that because of hitting a duck, put some hundred mile per hour tape over the damage and finished the season
Morning guys! I saw the news saying the drone belongs to the fire department, I have No idea if that’s true, but it has been reported.
Who loves the movie, “Always”? Great water bomber Rom/Com. Richard Dreyfus and John Goodman. Classic
I fly in central oregon, there's always half a dozen TFRs to all non-firefighting aircraft in the area during summer for firefighting activities.
Amazing aircraft. I live in SW Oklahoma where we had fires this summer and got to watch US Forest Service super scoopers in action up close. 👍🏻
The TFR doesn't always cover the entire operating territory of the firefighting aircraft. They are constantly leaving the TFR low-level to scoop more water. So entirely possible that the drone was being flown outside the TFR when the collision took place. This doesn't absolve the drone operator AT ALL, but TFRs aren't foolproof for these types of ops.
Exactly. I am in PA they were fighting a fire 16 miles away from me. We'll guess what an air tractor flew over our house at tree top. It was going back to base 90 miles away. It nearly hit my nebiores ham Rado tower that's 60 feet. ABG. We have also had a fixed wing and helicopter crash over the years. With our elevation being 1800 feet and other places being 800 feet.
Another thing is that even if a pilot checks for TFR's before they take off, one could be issued while they're in their air and they wouldn't know it.
Another thing is that even if a pilot checks for TFR's before they take off, one could be issued while they're in their air and they wouldn't know it.
I worked on 2 big forest fires when a young puppy, and these were in lightly populated areas, but BIG!
I don't think that most people have any idea how completely out range of any experience that you have, without being in an aerial attack. The noise itself, close up, is unforgettable, and watching a fire take out 100 metres of forested hillsides in something like 30 SECONDS... it's damned dangerous work on the front lines, and the aircraft and equipment operators deserve a lot of respect, and the "grunts" on the ground, man, that is tough, and often, dangerous labor!
"Super Scooper" was a name given to the plane and used once in a promotional brochure. Then everyone agreed to politely forget about it. Like the A10 being officially the Thunderbolt II. We call them Canadair water bombers in Canada, but that's not flashy enough for the yanks.
I know 2 people that use rather large drones for photography, they had absolutely no idea that they were supposed to be following certain rules. It's really sketchy right now. Unfortunately I think we're going to have to have a couple terrible accidents before people figure it out.
If they are flying commercially then they should know about airspace restrictions since it’s on the test for your certificate to fly for compensation
Drones are highly common at the amateur events at tracks I’ve been to. Usually pretty professional behaving videographers. But I’ve never seen one above 50ft.
But with tall tree tops and a raging fire I’m guessing you need to be much much higher to get an above view.
In Canada, the general population calls them Water Bombers.
I would love for you guys to get a pilot of one of these FF aircraft on the channel.
This may have been an accidental collision, but that makes it no less wrong. Whoever hit the plane needs to be held accountable.
The Scoopers will drop water 100 feet over fire and the access in and out of water means they're flying low, a lot. It was an unfortunate hit but it's a lesson learned that announcements need to be made and people need to be informed. The scoopers coming from Canada are largely deployed in back country and low density areas so it's probably not been an issue until now.
DJI has apparently removed geofencing. I use the same model drone as in this incident to inspect roofs here in Teton County. I was able to use a drone without going through the rigamarole surrounding these restrictions within miles of the Jackson Hole airport.
That's good. I shouldn't be restricted from getting my drone off the ground to thirty feet to get some work done.
Pilots didn't know it happened,flew more passes,damage was found after landing to refuel.
almost 10 times the capacity of the Super Scoopers and "Large bodies of Water" are everywhere within minutes.
How low was this airplane flying? Drones are limited to max 400 feet in best case scenario.
These things get a lot lower than that. Accuracy is what they do best.
Yeah was watching another video said they go about 100 ft. Dudes shouldn’t be flying drones in that area. At minimum he lost his drone. Max he gets charged.
These planes and their previous versions have been firefighting in Spain 4 decades. Their Spanish Airforce pilots do a great job, not only in Spain, but also in other countries. Btw, the former Yugoslav Airforce also flew the Cl-215 before the fell of the Soviet Union and allied dictatorships.
You go to MSR Houston? I live like 20 minutes away.
DJI has a system that law enforcement uses it will track all the DJI stuff in the sky for sure. And during I believe it was the race in Las Vegas they were bringing down a lot of drones using what they said was a different system.
Had to be federal law enforcement if they were causing drones to come down. If they weren't federal, they themselves were breaking the law.
@jerseyshoredroneservices225 yeah they actually mention that in the clip. Says its a 15k fine but the FAA controls airspace but shows lvpd arresting a drone operator during a race. Who actually knows what happened I just know the tech is there
Drones, when the product and the wallet exceed the intelligence of the consumers....I continue to keep the environment and the ecosystem in my prayers.🙏🏻
That cl215 got such a thicc bootie wing it probably never even Noticed that minor issue🤣
Occum's Razor applies. I could see you guys flying these. Wombat too.
This was a small (sub 1 pound) DJI drone - they recovered the drone itself. This was clearly a breach of TFR rules, and the "pilot" clearly did something to get around the build-in flight restrictions, and to make it even worse DJI have announced that they're not going to enforce restrictions like TFRs around wildfires, etc. any more, so expect to see this sort of thing a lot more.
It's not clear whatsoever. Those planes and other aircraft frequently fly out of the TFR to get water and frequently stay low level all the way back to base.
It may turn out to have been someone associated with the operation who was flying the drone. It wouldn't be the first time.
Up in Canada we don't call them super scoopers. Just saying 😎
I'm curious about that. The CL-215/415 has been around for many years, but the term "Super Scooper" seems to be more recent. When the aircraft was under development, I recall that Aviation Week & Space Technology simply referred to them as CL-415 Water Bombers. Is there an official name in Canada?
Aviators call them 215's or 415's. The general public call them Tankers or mostly just 'water' bombers.
@@kevinmadore1794 We just call them CL-415’s ( or 215’s if they’re radial engined)
@@rgt4848 Thought pilots/operators called them "Ducks"?
Inspected some assemblies on these aircraft on production line. Called them 415.
French call them Canadair which was a government entity before it was sold to Bombardier.
California rents the Super Scooper when it's off season for Canadian Wildfires. They cost something like $30,000,000 to purchase and $515/ hour to operate (I assume that doesn't pay for the pilots). The state of California rents them for about $5,000,000 for 3 months.
That's not a bad deal as far as renting specialist aircraft go
And You Also Forgot To Mention Before Ukraine-Russia War State Of California Also Rent Beriev 200 From Russia So Now Good Luck
I was just thinking that these bombers are doing a job like military, with heavy loads, and NOE, like fatally low if anything goes wrong...no enemy "fire", but air conditions over the fire are seriously tricky... Then, add in the possibility of a drone strike to an engine, or into the windshield!
Anyway, you guys, as actual military pilots, probably can "feel" the edge!
Big drones have nav lights and transponders this probably was a recreational drone.
Barber Motorsports Park in Birmingham Alabama does not allow drones over the track, and maybe bans them outright for the entire facility.
Birmingham nor any other race track facility can ban anything from the air space above. They don't have the authority to regulate the airspace all they can do is ask the faa to issue a flight restriction.
What they can do is make rules against people standing on their property and operating whatever, anything, including a drone.
There's also video of a Super Scooper hitting a pole on a dock
Pretty sure here in Canada it’s and automatic restricted 5 miles from a fire even without a Notam
Mover - DJI has just released anti-jam and EW resistant drones to the commercial markets. Just saying.
people don't understand it might only be a light weight drone but when you take in the consideration of speed of the plane it gets a whole lot worse than one might think. let us not forget what happened to the space shuttle just from a piece of foam. they were not supposed to fly they're in the first place you're not just damaging the plane you're putting the pilots lives in jeopardy
Looking at the damage and the location of the impact, my best guess is that it was likely a tethered drone this aircraft collided with.
Law enforcement and life guards have and use those types of drones a lot, especially on beaches. For those types of applications whenever a drone needs to fly for a longer time the media probably use tethered drones well.
Parts were already recovered which include a battery, it was a DJI mini 3 or 4
@@JnSobre Good to know, thanks for that information
The drone was recovered from inside the wing. They found it when they started taking the skin off to repair it.
These considerations always make me think how I get totally infuriated whenever a jolly journalist enthusiastically presents the next flying car which will resolve traffic jams in cities because instead of millions of cars queuing on roads we'll have millions of flying cars happily bringing people straight to work and back during rush hours...
Straight to the morgue.
It's a very busy airspace. It wasn't too hard to find planes surveying the fire area. In addition to everything else, insurance companies probably have drones up too. Like, they want to get a picture of the house burnt down so that they can quickly pay out an insurance claim. No insurance company wants to get called out for not paying out.
Maybe for home insurance they pay out quickly. But auto and health insurance is a racket where they cheat people all the time.
The bulk of domestic drones are DJI and hence have no fly zones that prevent the drones from flying. Did the authorities make the area a no fly zones and notify DJI ?
I certainly don't agree with any drone being up but can imagine some homeowners using them to see the way the fire is going ?
That system only works if you connect to the internet to get updates. If you don't update your drone, it does not know it can't fly.
*DJI Quit GEOfencing* their UAV's a few days ago. *They can now fly in any airspace, TFR or NOT*
I use a drone to inspect roofs here in Teton County. Near the Jackson Hole airport I generally have to go through a process to get permission just to get the drone off the ground.
I was out there couple days ago and was able to fly without a problem. Glad to see it. I shouldn't need permission just to get thirty feet off the ground.
Remote ID is useless! Range is extremely limited so unless someone with an ID reader is right underneath the thing they won't register it. Big waste of time for everyone and not well thought out. Unfortunately since the public can't be trusted to fly responsibly and according to the rules, stricter regulation of sales or enhanced geofencing by vendors is probably called for. But the horse has already left the barn there as well, since there are already millions of unregistered drones out there.
Federal law, no drones in wild fire air space. It’s been like this for years now.
I call it the CANSCOOP.
DUDES the drone had LAT LONG above Ben Aflecks home in Pacific Palisades, Can't say that it was Bens -maybe paparazzi. DJI Mini 3
Too Bad the Mars Martin is retired... or is it?...
It's retired unfortunately and currently at the aviation museum here in Victoria BC. It's just too old, next to impossible to get parts and too expensive to operate and maintain. Such a shame because it definitely would make a huge impact on fighting this horrible fire
the names of pilot
Éric Pelletier, Carl Villeneuve, Julien Flouquet, Pierre Boulanger, Karol Bouchard et François Lapierre. Mercredi, dans le ciel gris de Québec, ces pilotes, copilotes et techniciens se sont envolés à bord de deux avions Canadair CL-415 vers la Californie
Algorithmic engagement comment.
Drones, lasers, etc ppl are ignorant and the media is RESPONSIBLE for not educating ppl on the actual life n death risks of this
Theyre called water bombers in Canada
CalFire, which deals with non City fires like wildfires always secures the airspace they will be operating in. Nothing is allowed to fly in this zone that they are not in control of. They are incredibly well organized and fight wildfires like a major military action. Los Angles county is controlled by inept incompetent political types. They have caused a lot of suffering with their incompetency.
Get the Marines in there with their anti-drone MRZRs
i used to want to get a drone just for fun to zip around and check out my area from above.. but cant without going through a bunch of hurdles simply because i live within 5 miles of an airbase. unlike most of these recreational people.. i atleast looked up to see if there would be any conflicts with my operating it due to my location and turns out there is. so ended up saving the money and spent it on games instead XD
De Haviland Canada sent parts over and it was flying again by the 15th...
They have a big team on lease by California with multiple crews and techs to allow for R&R.
I heard the chief Pilot from Québec saying they needed a rest two days ago. Another team was being flown in from here, plus 2 extra bombers, because it's a CRAZY fire season this year...
And they're starting a new production run on an updated model. They merged Viking (who had bought the rights) and are calling the new plane the DHC-515... It's also got add-ons for insecticide spraying and other new uses for that kit, to open more markets for it...
Can't wait to see open air Insecticide lakes for it to load up... (just kidding with the last one..., except the way the USA is going under Trump, maybe it'll be legal there...).
These things are tanks. Pilots did not hear the impact nor felt a difference in flight controls.
They're called Water Bombers
Outlaw privately owned drones until the licensing is similar to the private pilot license and start going after the drone manufacturers for these kinds of accidents and costs.
From the images of recovered parts in the wing, it's clear this was only a 1/2 pound drone. At .55 pounds and under, the FAA does not require registration or remoteId when used for recreational purposes. That does not excuse the flight being conducted in a TFR, it only complicates enforcement when an event occurs.
I guess that the fbi needs to search underwater for a drone supposing that it has some registry serial numbers
Could been BLM Drone
Could have been the Chinese, the Russians, or aliens.
@GWNorth-db8vn no it was a BLM drone
Don needs to have Mover & Gonky be drone czars 🤔
This drone Bravo Sierra is getting out of control.
Very easy for C-UAS systems to take down drones and drop them out of the sky, it’s also possible to hijack a drone in the air and send it to a predetermined landing spot with some systems. As for remote ID, that’s practically useless because of the limited range (500’-2500’ either Bluetooth or wireless).
Regardless of restrictions, you should not fly drones in proximity of air ops, its common sense.
When those water bombers are picking up water they are flying a couple of feet about the lake/ocean. They then have to fly into an area and try to drop the water on target while not being able to see because of smoke and battling the shifting winds caused by a burning fire. Can't think of a dumber thing to do they put up a drone to make their job harder.
Most dangerous pilot job going, minus shells or rockets coming at you and some idiot does not G.A.S.
A reasonable question asked on another channel was with regard to a scenario where you are person, maybe a family, on the ground seemingly surrounded by fire, you have a drone and you are trying to find your way out... would you launch it?
Obviously they are not saying this is the case in this scenario, but there's a lot of vilification of the individual without consideration of all possible scenarios.
Just so lucky that the crew didn't get hurt. So disappointing that the aircraft was put out of operations due to this crazy circumstance.
If it is media - they know better, and should be punished to the full extent.
Freedom is sometimes dangerous. I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery.
*drone hits Super Scooper?
here's some great footage from Europe where they are a little more extreme in their attack, ruclips.net/video/33eg0m_JMxw/видео.html. In Canada most of our forest terrain is level, so the guys going to Quebec in CL415 must develop some experience in the canyons, ocean, and smaller reservoirs, etc.
Slap some speed tape on it & move on
My guess is intentional.
Have you seen the size of some of these drones? They are not squishy like birds... Imagine taking one in the windscreen of a water bomber or canopy of a fast mover? Or fan blades... people need to start using some brain cells. I don’t think it’s selfish, it’s idiotic.
I know this is an aviation channel but you guys talk as though every goofball with an Amazon drone knows what a TFR is. I doubt the kid who got a drone last Christmas pulls out Foreflight every time he puts the drone up.
That kid is supposed to get a hobbyist certificate from the FAA. The problem is that Knowledge of this requirement by novices just getting into the hobby, is practically non-existent.
@@jerseyshoredroneservices225 I agree.
Look at what happened in Ukraine with Antonov. If the US invades Canada no more Super Scooper for the US :-)
they recovered parts of the drone from inside the wing. It looked like a DJI Mavic mini 3.
Selfish? Unfortunately the entire American society is build on the idea that being selfish is a good thing.
Just garden variety assholery, but obviously can have serious consequences. It calls for maximum enforcement.
TFR's are always in place around aerial firefighting efforts. People are stupid.
Paparazi fox news !
here's the story of the development, going back to the 50s and post-WW2, pretty interesting and now back in production with new orders from France, EU and others. ruclips.net/video/mJ_iZIDjqoM/видео.html
You can take canada but Québec return to France
Drones are like social-media. Dangerous and unregulated. Why the government does not regulate the sale and operation of drones is beyond me. They should not be sold, without proper, regulated training, a full license, flight plans and restrictions, like “real” aircraft. They are not toys. Fortunately this incident did not result in a loss of life. But it is only a matter of time.
It was an UNDER 250 Gram drone so not subject to Remote ID or other rules. side note DJI just (With latest update) removed GEO FENCING witch stops Drones from taking off where their not supposed to fly. WHY because Congress were going to ban all DJI drone sales in the USA.