We get a 1⭐ review - Katie K's Fork - Giant Stages Masterplan
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- Опубликовано: 28 июн 2024
- Today's Podcast we discuss:
Katie Kookaburra Ring of Death Fork Video you can see here:
• MY BIKE IS A CRASH WAI... @KatieKookaburra
We get a 1⭐ Review you can read here:
g.co/kgs/Wp7sErp maybe @ryan can come and help?
Giant sues Stages, Hires ex execs and maybe has a masterplan to dominate indoor cycling... 
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I’m the Winspace dealer who supplied Katie with her replacement fork. They do not retail for £100! 😂 We treated it as crash replacement and applied a generous discount. (Unfortunately she didn’t remember that when she shared what she’d paid on her channel!) They were shipped inside that week’s framesets so effectively shipped for free.
Personally I think this whole ‘ring of death’ thing is a storm in a tea cup, though I haven’t seen Katie’s original fork so respect the opinion of the mechanic who inspected them.
BTW, Winspace is not really a pop-up brand! Founded in 2008 and making their own range of frames and wheels for over a decade now and sponsoring a Women’s World Tour team. They’re a pleasure to deal with and the products are as good as anything I’ve used. I’m interested to see where they’ll go over the next couple of years.
Always enjoy your content guys and flying the flag for high quality ship service, keep up the good work! 👏🏼
thanks for clarifying this! Regardless, I'm quite convinced, that many respectable (like Winspace) Chinese Brands have the same production costs as western brands, I guess in many cases they actually make stuff for western brands, the products of western brands just cost more because well the western brand needs to make money too...
Anyone who has worked with the general public, particularly in retail - will be be able to confirm that a small percentage of the population are just plain weird.
Very delicately put… 👍🏻
@@cd66061 haha I was going to say the same...
Counterpoint for polarised reviews - too many sub-par businesses are difficult to weed out on ratings alone, I'd actually encourage 1 and 2 star reviews for bad experiences. (That's not to say you deserved this one)
My experience of the “ring of death” is that they start while riding with a loose headset. Then when the headset is then over torqued when tightening it.
It happened quite a lot when carbon steerer tubes were new and headsets were crap (early naughties).
I don’t know anyone who would “fix” the steerer tube here in Portland. A single dentist bill makes even an new Enve fork look cheap :)
It highlights the benefit of having a good understanding of bicycle mechanics. You're supposed to check safety aspects prior to every ride of distance. Katie rides the SLC which uses a circular steerer allowing her to use a plastic compression ring. However, some carbon steerer tubes are D shaped for the hydraulic hoses to run internally. I'm surprised that she knew but ignored it.
A lot of people leaving 1 star reviews think only 2 ways, good service, 5 star, bad service 1 star. Very few people distinguish in between (strangely enough Japanese people DO but not in most western nations). While for a retailer it can be seen as a worry, i would say that its not something to take too much to heart. For many people google reviews is an all or nothing affair. As a user when i look at review i always sort by worst and see what the response of the vendor is, and the nature of the complaint. In this case I would see the nature of the complaint, and not worry as it is not related to your bread and butter, and doesn't relate to your ability as mechanics.
I would take the 1 star review as a compliment! It always means you've done everything right but the customer didn't like the truth or imagined something that was not possible . There is nothing stranger than folk!
Allow me to chime in here as a 'distance' customer whose frame was featured on this channel (the Ridley CX frame). Paul and co really do set a very high standard for themselves on this channel. My expectations going into the process were very high, because I had been watching the channel for several years, and seen the way Paul called out other shops and their previous work. The 1 star guy clearly went into the process expecting it to be super VIP treatment based on what he had seen on the channel. At the end of the day, a lot of what you get from Mapdec is 'free' - that being their time before the consultation. The cost of sale of such frame work (in my case) or a custom build is definitely not low. I would challenge that 1 star guy to go somewhere else and get both a good outcome, as well as good an experience, at a bike shop price. There are virtually no shops in the UK that can deliver all three. At least with Mapdec you know that regardless of the customer facing aspect of the transaction, or what you paid, that you're going to get one of the best prepared and thought-through builds in the UK without the price tag of a boutique shop.
One star guy here… firstly you’ve just directly contradicted everything that’s been said in this video and by Mapdec in the comments, namely they don’t do distance customers / shipping….
My expectations were not VIP at all, I simply wanted to ask a few questions and then buy a frame set…. Pretty standard bike shop stuff really.
The retailer I’ve eventually ended up buying a Time ADH frame set from has been great! Excellent communications both pre and post sale. Took time to look at and then discuss my documented bike fit with me over the phone and answered any questions I had. Even apologised that they had missed my initial email query as it had filtered into their junk their end. Subsequent to placing my order they have continued to communicate well with call backs when promised even if it’s just to say they are still waiting on the update from the suppliers themselves. Nothings been too much effort for them and they are just a small bike shop, not a large retailer / e-commerce business….
Time frames are priced the same everywhere so that’s a non issue.
You’ve obviously had a great experience with Mapdec which is great, sadly my experience was the polar opposite.
Thank you both. You have really made me reflect on what we are trying to achieve and how to not get distracted. Our aim is to be the best cycling workshop and fitness centre. and I have no desire to be a retail shop or be good at it. I don’t want to be the best at packing boxes. Team meeting on Monday. A big focus session. This has taught me a big lesson on not being distracted from the task at hand.
@@Mapdec❤
Cycling has changed a lot over the past few years, both in prices and customers, especially with a lot of bikes sitting comfortably in the luxury goods price segment now.
As such, expectations from customers also shift. There will be shops that adapt and innovate to survive the post-boom period and others who will struggle and close down, as it has happened in other retail branches as well.
Great point.
Giant was actually building stages indoor bikes and power meters already according to the invoices that have been posted via DC Rainmaker.
It’s natural to look past the many positive reviews and single out the one bad one. You will always learn more from these
So true.
Thinking is giant is buying stages then putting the units on the mid to higher end bikes stock not using the sram builds. Then expansion of the indoor system. It should lower costs on power meters even more for the masses for separate unit sales. Just changed the carbon legs/alloy sternner to full carbon fork on 2017 CX bike. Your comments have me thinking get the headset replaced now before the regional racing season begins after summer heatwaves pass.
I’m actually on the verge of writing a 1* review for a bike company (I won’t name names. I ordered a groupset for £900 3 months ago. It wasn’t in stock at the time but was due in the following week. The following week came and no sign of anything. I checked their website and the eta had slipped by 2 weeks. I only found out because I looked on the website. 2 weeks later, eta slipped again and no word from them. I emailed them, no reply. I phoned and they apologised and said it would be in the flowing week. Surprise surprise, eta slipped. I phoned and decide to go with another groupset that was in stock (according to the website), no problem they said, I had to pay an extra £50 over the phone and just after I paid the £50, they told me that the left shifter wasn’t in stock but it would be in the following week. The following week came and nothing! In the end, I had enough and asked for a refund. The original sale was refunded but I’m still waiting for the £50 after 4 emails asking about it. I think this would warrant a 1* review?
One star for sure. It's not like you're murdering a child when you leave a one star review. Your experience sucked, they sucked, it's life. Doesn't mean it's a shit business in itself, but it's not your business to protect theirs. The law of big numbers does that.
Yeah. They should have just refunded. Shimano has been a nightmare for stock recently.
@@Mapdec it was a sram axs groupset actually and they did say sram were being slow so that’s why I gave them multiple chances. It was the lack of communication that bothered me the most though. When you’re spending £900 on something, you’d like to think you’d be contacted when the delivery date changes. I haven’t even had a reply to my 4th email regarding my refund.
I have had constant issues with my headset loosening on my look blade 795 rs. I think that the shape of the steerer is the reason. I check often and do not ride it if I feel the knocking.
On the old one? If it is very slammed you may need to tap the threaded insert as the top bolt can bottom out.
Remember asking for quote for a custom bike some time ago but never got the quote. If I recall correctly, I followed up by a call and a young voice answered the call. Probably it was Jake. I had a quick 2 mins chat with him and got some ball park figures. There was no hard feelings. I thought you might just forgot about it, which happens all of us.
Sorry. 😔
Sounds like some ticketing IT system could solve that, but idk how practical that would be. A lot of businesses will automatically create a ticket every time you interact with them. Zoho I think I one such thing that I think is free?
Mapdec are great except at email responses where a ticket system would help. I can understand that in their business, they are not in front of a screen all day so email replies are not a priority.
@@Mapdec Its all right. Actually at th end it worked better as I did not take much of your time for a built I could not afford.
You shouldn't even be in Britain buddy...
i gave a LBS a 1 star review because i was quoted 12€ over the phone when i asked to set up a GRX FD for a bike i had just built, using the "premium" coated cables, which changed to 14€ in person which i didn't dispute, and when i went to pick up my bike TWO MONTHS later (promised 10 days) they said they had to replace the cable because it was "old and frayed" (literally never ridden), it was obviously the cheapest cable, they made it too short to properly route and i had to pay 36€ to get my bike back. i still had to redo it because it rubbed on the big chainring. they appealed the google review and it got removed
Yeah. At least they did a bad job to earn the 1 star. All we did is not sell something.
That's cheap compared to an LBS quote my son was given -- 100 quid to replace a broken rear shifter cable.
This was the local store of a national bike shop chain.
Note: All the shifter cables on his bike are externally routed.
There's a happy ending. My son went to a proper local LBS, who charged 15 quid for the cable and install.
@@BrianRPaterson i'd still call 15 quid a ripoff tbh
@@Carftymk Probably. What does a shifter cable cost in the UK?
But it won't happen again. I've given him 3 or 4 spare cables just in case he has a problem, so he'll be able to "do it at home for nothing!"
Cheers
@BrianRPaterson if it was internal routing I mightve charged more than that, but 100 is stupid, definitely not worth 100. I would only do around 20-30 depending on exactly all that needed done with the rear cable.
It is my impression from enjoying your videos from afar... you are so very thourough in your approach to every aspect of repair. So it's difficult to imagine you dropped the ball as far as the reviewer states....however-once in a while/ all of us in our chosen profession endures a debacle.
I hope all party's can have a difficult meeting either zoom or in person and fix this !!! And tell us all things got fixed up!!!!
We've all been there guys... a 1 star review is painful and almost always a petty and unjustified review. What I believe you may want to point out to everyone is... there is no recourse to that review, no way to change it, no way to even refute it if it is false. I have a 1 star review from a young girl, who watched her Father threaten to kill me while in my store... made up a story and posted it. Google will never take it down... I have also had a 1 star review given to my business from someone who mistakenly reviewed the wrong shop ! Could you imagine receiving a performance review at your job from a co worker who could remain anonymous and it stayed on your permanent record? Great video as usual, keep up the good work.
Oh wow. That sounds like a bad day at work.
The Stages Giant situation is a little bit fishy. My understanding is that several of the Stages management and designers had just switched to now work for Giant.
Work on 2 standard deviations either side of the mean for reviews - some people are never happy and some people think everything is brilliant - neither add much to the debate!
Zwift might be working on revival of the room riding. They are working on fixing issues with Meetups and to fix other issues.
Here's my thoughts
1. Mapdec cycling willing joined a star rating system knowing full well that it is a negative and positive rating system.
2. You are involved in a customer service industry, if your staff have a negative reaction to somebody being unhappy with your service then put in staff training to deal with this.
3. The argument that people should think about putting in an one star review because staff get upset is the company putting the blame on the customer. A problem with the companies ordering system has been indentified by the system they are willing taking part in.
I appreciate the company is trying to uphold their reputation with this video, in my opinion a quick apology for bad customer service would have sufficaed.
3. This is known as deflection. Understanding deflection. The act of blaming another person for your own mistakes or shortcomings rather than accepting the blame or criticism yourself is called deflection. This type of defensiveness as a coping skill is commonly used to angle or direct the focus or blame away from ourselves.
Oh totally. The point of a star rating is to choose between 1 and 5. All we did was not sell someone something. No money was taken, no promises made. We just failed to communicate fast enough. So the discussion is, what happens when something really bad happens. Like if break something and don’t fix it, etc.
Thank for responding to my comment.
@@Mapdec. I get a sense of frustration from both parties
Here's some ideas.
1. Employee somebody to monitor emails, ordering etc even on a part time basis
2. Employee training
3. Offer the one star customer a couple of free services
4. Make another video stating what you have improved and an apology for bad customer service. Short, concise points in the video, no emotional language used
If I was local I would use your shop as your videos have impressed me.
I had to give a 1 star review after a few emails and calls to get my order sent to me sad but no other way to get the company to seat up and take note
I can see how that would work.
Giant make Wattbikes (have been since 2011) so you're probably not far off in assuming they were building the Stages bike as well.
I think it’s only fair to try to resolve an issue with the provider before posting a one star review. Seek resolution or at least make an effort to achieve a greater understanding of the service providers position on the issue before moving to a poor review which basically amounts to revenge.
my tcr has a headset like that :O
Good vid. I once did bad review on new bike it take them ages to send and once here had alot of faults i had to sort myself, i did ask you to sort me wheels few months ago but you didn't email bk so just think ok they busy or not interested so got shop here do them but not great i again did myself with park tool tensioner , i no its all time but maybe a email to say workshop to busy etc be idea 👍
I am sorry. This whole process has highlighted a big problem in our communications. We have since moved onto a contact form that brings your message directly to our workshop management software. So far it seem to be working well. We also completely shut off Facebook, what’s app etc as we were loosing track of conversations. Thanks for the feedback 🙏
@@Mapdec thats cool. Just thinking i give feedback. And just for future would you sort wheels if asked again?
@@robrobinson420 yes. Of course.
I periodically bounce my road bike on its rear wheel to notice stuff like this
Why have a repair if you can buy a 100£ fork.
When you think about it, it’s either going to be a 1 star review or a 5 star review. Most people don’t leave a review, they vote with their wallet. On another note, the business either delivers or it doesn’t. The amount of time spent is irrelevant.
You guys are overthinking the Giant/Stages situation. If I bring you a bike to work on, you do the work, then I tell you I can’t pay you, you are going to try to figure out a way to salvage some type of return. You didn’t “make a play” to get my bike from me.
Is that a time fork in the first few minutes of the video?
Yes.
Katie doesn't build her own bikes, by her own admission her mech skills are limited. How about indentation caused by pressure on the steerer by the stem in the front due to weight on the handlebars. Is that a concern?
Any damage is a concern. Indentation is usually from the stem clam being fastened without a compression bung to support.
So was it a warranty repair? If so the $100 may not have been the price of the fork
That wasn’t mentioned on her video.
Is there any chance your podcast will be coming to spotify soon😀
Do they do video now?
They do - Ive seen the Roadman Cycling Podcast does it.
Yes they do, joe rogans has been like that for a while
My instinct tells me Giant will eventually try to scoop some fitness equipment brands out of the cycling industry. We'll see...
☕
It's not at all easy to judge from the rating and its replies, what really had been going on. But I believe it's a problem of implicit assumptions from both sides. Jake took it for granted that a customer would order a custom build, the customer assumed he could order like from any webshop, and clearly the communication went wrong. I think that's a lesson to be learned from this case, that you have to state explicitly to customers what you do and what you do not want to do.
But what I definitely did not like, was the diction of the complaint. To me, that sounded like someone who expects that he orders and others simply have to comply, in a very one-sided view.
So you have an issue to improve, but I would not worry about the rating.
There were no assumptions at all, I stated from the start I only wanted a frame set and I would need it shipping to me….
As for my tone, not sure what to make of your interpretation…. I was told I could buy something and could have it shipped to me so of course I expected that to happen….
So it’s my 1 star review so I’m going to set a few things straight here since this version of events differs from my perspective.
1. It was nothing like an hour spent on the phone to Jake or anyone else, half hour total at best looking at my call logs.
2. I made it clear from the get go that I lived the other end of the country so would need whatever I purchased shipped to me. I was even told what the cost for shipping a frame set to me would be.
3. I made it clear from the get go that I had an existing Ultegra DI2 groupset plus some other components stripped from another bike that I wanted to use. I did ask what you would charge to fit the parts I had if I sent them to you but quickly worked out that was impractical so said I would build myself or have my LBS do it once I received the frame and other bits from yourselves.
4. I was told none of this was an issue and was advised the new Look 785 Huez would meet my requirements and that you had a black medium in stock that I could purchase.
5. I had to chase multiple times to get a partial invoice sent to me. I called to query this as I firstly wanted to make some changes to the additional bits I was buying and secondly because I thought it odd that you were asking for a deposit on something I was buying outright - not a custom build where I’d expect a deposit and payment on completion arrangement.
6. I was promised another invoice that never materialised and yes I did and have subsequently checked my junk.
7. After one further attempt to chase the invoice I gave up and ordered a different frame set from another retailer.
I have actually emailed you subsequent to your response to my review to explain this and didn’t so much as receive an acknowledgement from you let alone an attempt to engage with me and understand things from my perspective……
So from my perspective it has been a 1 star experience as I’ve been let down and subsequently ignored.
I’ve pinned this comment.
I guess the morale of the story is to call bike shops, not just email them, because they're not an online shop? I'm sure it's very frustrating when you're trying to spend thousands on a frame to have a transaction that isn't smooth sailing.
Or don't advertise an email or have a form on your website if you don't respond promptly to enquiries received via it?
I filled out their contact form with some queries back early April as was visiting Kendal and hoped to get a special Mapdec service, but no one ever replied and thus my bike never got a chance to experience some Mapdec TLC.
The portrayal you see on RUclips and actual personal experiences differ dramatically. It's a real shame. Thanks for sharing your experience.
I actually emailed mapdec with an enquiry for a custom bike build myself and never got a reply, so don't worry, you're not alone with receiving poor/nonexistent customer service.
Wasn't going to bother calling it out, but I think now it is necessary.
@@pierrex3226 it’s true that the loudest noise gets the most attention. It shouldn’t be the case, but, yes in reality the person stood in front of us gets the most attention. We have some problems to solve.
If you ask people for reviews, you have to accept that you might get a score anywhere between 1 and 5 - it is purely subjective. Accept it; don’t play the wounded martyr.
Problem is the utility of reviews is ruined by people who don’t take it seriously and instead use the review to air a petty grievance. Star reviews are supposed to be a utility for the general public.
@@GHinWI So don’t use the review process!
Not to forget,this fork is made in the same factory as ‘so called’ top end,branded Carbon. Been building and repairing Carbon Bikes for past 15 years…yes get Carbon repaired. But bottom line-more money does not necessarily get better quality. Been happily riding rigid Carbon fork purchased from Chinese Carbon Manufacturer for €90 via Ali Express for past 7 years on my 853 Custom mountain bike…biggest issue on Carbon Steerer in my opinion is having a bung not deep or long enough to provide internal support inside the stem…especially if folk ride with multiple spacers ABOVE the stem.( OK for one or two rides to determine bar height) before cutting steerer!
I’m not questioning quality here, except for the headset. I’m questioning the ethics and sustainability.
@@Mapdec That's a fair point and obviously applies across a huge spectrum of Chinese exports, not just the cycling industry. I wonder how many of us in the developed world could look in the mirror and say: I have never purchased a Chinese product. Or: I have bought something made in China, and I know it was produced in an ethical and sustainable way. I suspect the number is very small.
That 80 pound fork was likely made using forced labor, so yeah, feel free to buy one if that’s what you want.