Is Modern Mill a Meme? Ashiok and Friends! MTG Deck Tech and Gameplay
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- Опубликовано: 12 сен 2024
- UB Modern Mill is often considered a massive joke within the community - a deck that can't hold it's own. But is that true? Lets find out.
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“Magic was bad” says a man whose never played a turn one gray ogre off black lotus
Man, Gray Ogre is such a bomb.
Also millstone was in antiquities and was reprinted in revised.
Gay ogre
@@dankftw3028 not gay
Kate Slate was that a LRR reference? Made my day!
I always pay attention to your patreon list to make sure that my favorite username of all time, "Literally a Ghost that Pushes over Candles" is still there. And now I have been blessed by the presence of "Literally a Candle that Pushes Ghosts". Sorry, Vince, I feel your patrons may just be eclipsing the enjoyment of your videos with their shenanigans.
Hey just had to say I do the exact same thing for the same guy, I noticed it like 6 months ago and have been checking for him since, one time he wasn't there and I was heart broken but then I realized it was an older video
Mission briefing let's you flash back archive trap for its trap cost. Two mana mill 26....
qaqq
Only if your opponent meets the trap requirement
@@Kaowaul ... yes but if he does, it is a two mana mill 26 at instant speed.
Trap is also only a five mana mill 13 without the requirements, but oh gosh, it is played!
if you get mission briefing later you can replay glimpse for 4 mana or draw 3 for 3
@@Narabedla4 not saying briefing is bad, it's actually really good in this deck. Just wanted to state that 2 mana is a lot different than 7 mana for mill 13. But the ability to have trap and briefing in hand, and 2 open mana, if your opponent searches, then you can trap for 13, pay your UU, and trap again, to just decimate them.
The problem is what do you cut for briefing. The other 2 drops in the deck are all necessities. Briefing just doesn't do enough to justify it.
Highly disappointed you didn’t run mission briefing as it can seriously speed up the milling process and also fix your draws
Mission briefing just isn't that great in Dimir Mill. It's much better if you're playing mono blue. Plus, with ashiok in the sideboard you really don't want to rely too heavily on Archive Trap
Justin Bruce while I see your angle, I would at least say it is far and away much better than manic scribe if you’re trying to mill aggressively as you have tons of 1-2 mana spells that are great to play off of it
@@soren1803 manic scribe is mostly in the deck to fight Leyline of sanctity. Also it can mess with scrying from serum visions, Opt, ect. Also, additional blockers are useful if you can't find bridge
Justin Bruce honestly it’s always been a mediocre pick as it’s a really feeble blocker in modern and delirium is actually a tad bit tricky to get rolling. Plus if they have a leyline your best plan is probably set adrift out of the board
ashiok kills that plan, but can also be straight swap in sideboarding, i dunno, but when briefing works it can mill almost half deck in one turn
I love how there is now a "Literally a candle that pushes ghosts" lol
Where's misson brefing. It let's you flash back archive traps at instant speed for 0 cmc
The opponent still has to search to pay for 0. Cause mission briefing states you may play it if you can cast it.
yeah i thought same thing...field of ruin is indeck as a search enabler as well as tron etc., but mainly for briefing...u can get some very silly turns with briefing
"We attack with crab to send a message" ...LOL, every damn time.
"...As early as Revised, when Millstone was printed."
Well, technically true but also earlier than that, because Revised was 100% reprints. Weird that you'd say that since the image that you use is the one from Antiquities. Antiquities came before Revised! These kids today.
Oh shit, it did?
PK says Millstone is origionaly from Revised, proceeds to show older Antiquities version.
How about the fact Revised was 100% reprints and had nothing that wasn't originally printed elsewhere?
Since you're milling yourself with mesmeric orb anyway, why not toss in a copy or two of dead drop? For those unaware:
9B
Delve
Target player sacrifices two creatures.
Seems better than dismember in some matchups.
Or maybe a copy of temporal tresspass
MILL IS LIFE :P
I'm happy mill is becoming more and more looked into for modern play. It has legs again, especially in this meta.
Cut night of souls' Betrayal for Flaying Tendrils, Devour Flesh or Even Fraying Sanity
I'd love to see you try to jam boggles and legacy enchantress together into some unholy#walue engine
Ashiok Beats my sideboard tech I MUST have for Mill.
Gaea's blessing
Great video and bad luck on just missing out on the 5-0. Modern Mill has always had a place in my heart ❣
I'd take though scour, to send a message, "ONLY THE CRABS WILL MILL!"
Scheming Symmetry seems like it could potentially be quite strong in mill.
A 1-mana tutor in Modern that simultaneously FORCES your opponent to search their library to enable Archive Trap seems pretty damn good.
I'm trying this version of the deck out at my LGS currently.
Isn't Ashiok + Archive Trap kind of not a combo? Is Ashiok good enough that that doesn't matter?
(Also just fyi Ashiok isn't a she)
Field of Ruin can still force them to search because Ashiok only stops the opponent's tutoring effects. Field of Ruin is your own effect.
I tend to only sideboard in ashiok is matchup where the exile or tutor matters. They exile the yard and thenbi can't ancestral recall off of visions of beyond
As many have stated, I feel like not running briefing is a mistake. I'd also probably dump a darkslick for another gield of guin and toss in a murderous cut. The scribes seem weak and I feel like some number of IoK or thoughtseize may be a better for disrupting opponent's early game. Searches also seem a bit odd/slow.
Possible unpopular opinion; I feel like Ashiok is good, but almost a non-bo in the deck, with the traps (no voluntary searches from opponents seems bad, only way to turn them on is to field opp), crypt incursion (say goodbye to all that sweet sweet life gain when you downtick), surgical (feels bad to topdeck this after you downtick), and with visions of beyond (similar to crypt incursion, except you turn ancestral recall into a cycling card when you downtick). I feel like it has some place in the sideboard but definitely not main...again probably an unpopular opinion.
It uh... it _is_ in the sideboard.
@@tomjackal5708 I should have been more specific. The Ashiok comment was more in reference to the people asking why it wasnt mainboard
I think new Ashiok might be able to bump the deck up a tier.
As someone who plays mill mainly, ashiok isn't a good card for mill. Interacting with opponent's graveyard is what pushes mill. Rip is the worst hate card that I can face so playing ashiok makes 0 sense
@@freedymarriky1977 ashiok only hits your opponents, and still let's you surgical your opponents cards
Exactly! I need my opponent to have cards in their graveyard to win. Without their graveyard one of my best cards, visions of beyond, becomes useless. I also play 4 surgicals mainboard and they're played proactively in this deck unlike other decks and for this purpose as well I need my opponent to have cards in their graveyard.
Last and not least on why I believe ashiok is shit I mill, ashiok stops them from searching their libraries! Which means no archive traps being cast for 0. It literally kills the card that make this deck strong.
@@freedymarriky1977 I agree but I must say that against dredge and pheonix it can come in handy
With 3 Bridges and 4 surgical main board phoenix is a relatively easy match up. For dredge there are 3 extra extirpates in the sideboard, 1 night of souls betrayal and handful of crypt incursions. Both match ups are 50/50 but after sideboard it gets much much better for mill.
That being said the deck doesn't need extra help for those 2 match ups. And ashiok doesn't help at all with dredge since it can't be played at instant speed and most of their creatures/spells hit the graveyard and leave it the same turn. If you're gonna rely on using a 3 drop to hit dredge's graveyard that mildly then it's not gonna end well for you. Same goes for phoenix since there are literally 1 or 2 cards that shouldn't get in the graveyard then why not use specific hate? Like something that targets just the phoenix or just the looting, since the rest of their graveyard being filled is in our favour!
Luckly i was able to survive the heart attack wich almost got me when the mighty millstone was presented as introduced in revised edition. So i was able to apreciate the rest of this nice video on such a glorious archetipe. I personally prefere a more turbo-controllish version without orbs snapcasters nor bridge. I put instead some frayng sanity and splash 4 assasin's trophy that can activate trap or work as best removal thanks to opponent's fear of the trap... +1 traumatize as janky unespected 1shoot mill.
Hey PK, I just need to let you know. The final song you played on this video was the into and outro of a RUclipsr named Mumbo Jumbo but he recently had to remove them from all of his videos because the song contains a sample of a song owned by Warner Bros and they copyrighted all 2000ish of his videos. I dont wanna be a downer but I also dont want you to have to put up with that shit
Woah shit. Thanks for the heads up, I'll avoid it in future.
you are a good man
Liked and subscribed, because you sent a "message" with those crabs and i feel this isn't done enough.
Thanks to your ending message, you've saved my marriage. Thank you, PleasantKenobi, you were my only hope!
How have I not found this channel before? Very funny and entertaining content. Subscribed!
Welcome to the fold.
I love that there is an option for a long sleeved shirt can't wait for it
I just got my shirt!!!
One of the early decks to look out for in Horizons will be UB Farie Ninjas. Belive the hype.
I saw that you have 3 Surgicals main deck, missed that somehow. I like that. The new Eons card that is dropping next month in Horizons is sure to wreak havoc with Mill...
I was so fucking bored 5 seconds. Now I'm hyped! Got me with that crabs joke.
This kind of deck also loses a lot of power if you play in a regular meta where people change up what they run based on what they expect to play against. Mill can be hard to play when people make room to sideboard to counter you. Its a little bit better if you sparingly play it or play it in a blind environment (aka somewhere new).
Ghost Quarters are great in this deck. The opponent will probably be afraid you're baiting an Archive Trap, so it's often just a Strip Mine. In Modern.
Either that, or it does turn on your Archive Trap.
In that last game against humans, maybe milling yourself was the way to go. Delve can pay for the Thalia tax, so landdrop, set adrift Thalia delving 7 paying blue into 3 mana bridge would have left you with 2 cards in hand if I saw that correctly. Anyway, they probably had some form of answer for that, because it's humans and they always have it.
I was that round 1 opponent playing Mono Red Tron. My garbage draws and terrible luck were an embarrassment on my part but it was still a pleasure to face you and a pleasure to be featured in your video.
I wasnt sure if you were aware of me Haha. You didnt say anything in chat, so I didnt want to assume.
Proud of you though! Fighting the good fight with a super fun deck!
@@PleasantKenobi Thanks! I'm not 100% familiar with your work and I'm very new to MTGO but I know your name and your build of Mono Red Tron is what I decided to start with!
I present,
The juxtaposition 17:17
This did way better than I expected, and against a number of tier 1 decks
Mill has a great matchup agaisnt dredge, drege just helps out mill and their win condition. Cant wait to see how great this strategy is
2:44 Except that a good chunk of Burn's cards, while being able to help with your game plan, can also double down as removal. Some of them even do both (Seering Blaze and Seering Blood).
Also, a lot of modern archetypes use their life as a resource.
Back in mirridon block I made a Type 2 combo affinity deck that allowed me to play most my deck in the turn it went off to eventually brainfreeze the opponent out. I was played 4 on 1 and milled them all out on the same turn on turn 4... and then they banned my key card skullclamp (I was equipping for free to draw my deck with it)!!! Since then I'm been constantly chasing that mill dream.
I love playing against mill because I love to play graveyard-centric decks, and so they’re just helping me hit my endgame quicker.
:^)
Extirpate is surgical that costs a mana but can't be interacted with, should run a couple in the sb at least. Also, just a warning about bridge and orb as they are kind of a non-bo. Bridge wants your hand empty so you gotta cast spells, meaning tapping lands (most of the time) and you can accidentally mill yourself out if opponent just let's the orb do its work. I still run them, just be careful when considering having them out at the same time. Also, Ravenous Trap is a free graveyard exile if three or more cards entered op's graveyard. U can replace the Night's Betrayals with this
18:33 I liked this video for the split second of the Angel of Death riff
Please build 8-Crab snow mill. What more could you ever want from a deck? EIGHT-FUCKING-CRABS! Amazing.
hears outro music
warner chapel intensifies
Did nobody realize that glimpse the unthinkable can be imprinted on Isochron Scepter?
Against emy you are still good to go due to a ashiok’s down tick. The effects trigger at the same time mill 4 then exile. So emy can’t shuffle the graveyard into the library even if the ability is triggered cause there is nothing in the library to shuffle back in
The reason mill is "bad" is because it loses to random cards an opponent might just have and it kind of needs its recurring mill pieces to be fast enough to win by turn five or six. It also needs its disruption to be relevant, which is usually the case but not a guarantee. It's not very often death's shadow has disruption in hand that does literally nothing and it's not very often it has no disruption in hand at all. This happens to mill sometimes.
But what people do wrong is think that mill's gameplan is bad. It's not, mill's gameplan is efficient, inevitable, and it can be difficult to put up a fast enough clock while competing with all the different types of ways it can put a clock on you. It's also annoying to see all your silver bullets get put in the bin.
Btw it's amusing to run a few copies of Nexus of Fate in my turns deck and go up against mill, because many of them just don't think to run unmoored ego.
This was the best video you've had in a while. I loved the shirts line in reference to the gurmanglers having "cannot attack". Clever. Have you ever seen the Weebl's Stuff video "I've got a big bag of crabs here"? Check it out. I find it quite relevant.
Really glad you enjoyed it. I poured a lot of time and effort into this one, and for someone to notice really makes a difference. Thank you! I'll check out the bag of crabs later today.
Pleasant Kenobi is to magic what Gigguk is to anime.
Excellent content, vince.
Thank you my friend.
Mill is not a meme. It's a mechanic, a tech, a way to win the game. Excellence in it's best, MtG's most rewarding way to wrap up the game. Great!!
Vialsmasher miracles, it's not great but it would make a good video
Or vialsmasher affinity/delve
this is kinda hilarious to watch after the fiasco that is throne of eldrain blue/black mill meta
Not sure what to think of the 2 Mana creature. I would rather play Mission briefing and maybe some mind funeral.
i run a pretty similar deck ive been piecing together for a while now. if you like to gamble mind funeral is is a great 3 mana mill card. 1 blue 1 black 1 colorless. you mill through a deck till you hit 4 land cards. this will usually hit 10 plus cards. it feels awful when its less but ive also had 25 cards milled off of landramp decks. lots of fun to use and the randomness makes it interesting.
Mill is fun, and I like how it plays out, but Burning your opponents to death is more fun for me Kenobi boi ;)
Why was Ashiok in your sideboard versus main?
I think that was a mate I went with to Lyon, he has it all foil and signed.
Shameless promotion lol, you’ve got a new crab coming
Main
1 Aggressive Mammoth
1 Arcane Encyclopedia
1 Chord of Calling
1 Darksteel Plate
4 Dramatic Entrance
1 Elvish Archdruid
4 Elvish Mystic
2 Elvish Piper
2 Ezuri, Renegade Leader
15 Forest
1 Gift of Paradise
1 Gilded Lotus
1 Greenwood Sentinel
1 Grunn, the Lonely King
2 Jagged-Scar Archers
1 Joraga Warcaller
1 Khalni Hydra
1 Lead the Stampede
4 Llanowar Elves
2 Plummet
4 Progenitus
4 Quicksilver Amulet
2 Reclamation Sage
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Wurmcoil Engine
Sideboard
SB: 1 Blinding Fog
SB: 2 Colossal Majesty
SB: 3 Druid of the Cowl
SB: 1 Ghastbark Twins
SB: 1 Life Goes On
SB: 2 Pelakka Wurm
SB: 2 Plummet
SB: 1 Prodigious Growth
SB: 2 Reliquary Tower
You mentioned this being the closest to UB control in modern rn, but I'd be interested to see some tezzerator. (not sure if tezz counts as control or something else, I just assume control)
Wondering if he knows the leylines was the chosen hate for shuffle replacement effects like eldrazi and not specifically dredge.
Yes, but that seems like a very bad card to be bringing in vs something like Nahiri combo. It seems like a shocking game plan.
Splashing white for Path is a possible choice to hit bigger creatures with no downside. They can fetch for a land...if they dare...
And for rip
Does the deck want Rest in Peace though? That turns off Surgicals, which are a very powerful part of the deck.
Love your production value, Vince
You really don't like surgical mainboard. It's spicy and a great utility card for the graveyard strategies that are floating around. Plus, it's a freebie that, at its worst, can view the opponent's hand.
this video just reminded me how I thought Ashiok was female back in Theros, but have referred to them as male for most of WAR without even realizing it.
It's so weird how the WAR Ashiok looks male while the Theros Ashiok looks female
Ashiok is a genderless nightmare being. Officially, gender-neutral pronouns are used for Ashiok. (they)
@@daemonCaptrix i came here for this.
@@daemonCaptrix let's just take this comment out of context for a moment
Loved it, good job as always!
This deck runs ashiok to deal with emrakul aeons torn as well right? I mean you have to get lucky and hit with activation but at least you have an out
Isn't Ashiok a nonbo with Archive Trap? Ashiok prevents them from searching their libraries. And, as he stated in the video, it's also a nonbo with crypt incursion. Probably just shouldn't include it at this point.
i love that deck, it's my deck, do you think altar from modern horizon would be good for it ? great vid PK !
I think Altar will be good, but unsure this is the deck for it.
God I want to build this deck. It's bloody expensive though. What do ya'll think about Fraying sanity? Include at some number or is it just a win more card for mill?
7:40 with the exception of stuffing an Archive Trap under against decks running G A DD O C K | | T E E G
The best part about mill is that is absolutely fucks tron so hard
dope video
nice vide
great sound
dope work
What’s the music in your background man I’ve always liked it so soothing
I actually had crabs recently and then bought hedron crabs the other day. So like.... me too?
Thoughts on Fraying Sanity as a one-of? I've gotten a lot of mileage off that card in a similar deck.
Are there any changes for legacy enchantress from MH, like the enchantment land perhaps?
Fire music choices as always 👌
Wait a second this isn’t hollow one
And to think the deck gets better with edict in modern horizons.
You mean Liliana's Triumph? The strictly better Diabolic Edict?
Man, I loved this video haha!
What are your thoughts of doing snow mill with the snow crab as well as Hedron Crab?
Honestly? The Snow Crab seems significantly worse than Manic Scribe and this makes Snow not really worth it IMO.
Sorry, but my favorite androgynous nightmare monster is the Babadook
Fourth, record bet 4-6
Edit: Ey I was actually right on the number of wins.
You just spoiled it when I was gonna comment...
only have yourself to blame for that
I'm not sure if 24:30 was riffing on DesolatorMagic, quatering or both
Ashiok doesn't work well with the Archive Trap.
You use it as a bait. Them both make your tactic great. Just wait for one to disappeat to use the other
For my fellow American viewers, "fanny-crack" does NOT mean the same thing in England as it does here.
Fun bit of trivia for the vorthos crowd. Ashiok doesn't have a gender and is canonically considered non-binary. Many writers and folks at Wizards have confirmed this and have instructed their team to refer to Ashiok not by a pronoun of any kind, no 'he, she, they, or it'. Ashiok is simply and always referred to by name which is pretty badass.
Yep. My bad. Mistake on my part.
@@PleasantKenobi Yeah but it's also a pretty innocuous thing and really easy to miss. Also, really love all of your content! Keep up the great work!
Kenobi is on shroomsagain
Glimpse on Isochron Scepter?
I'm gonna guess 6-3 because I believe in you, you madman
I like Ashiok's -1 but don't play it because it turns off my free Archive Traps, which is the biggest hitter in the deck.
Is it worth playing ruin crab as well?
I love the literally ghosts patreons
I love mill. I love trying different variations and it's just fun to get it to kick off.
Mtg lore, Ashiok is specifically genderless. Some in marketing messed up and there is a document ot there that states a gender, I think it was the booklet that came in the Theros fat pack. However, Ashiok was designed being genderless, or at least never having a gender revealed.
Yeah, I messed up there. Simply a mistake. My original joke called them "everyone's favourite androgynous nightmare queen" but I cut it because it was gendered language (even if I meant it in a more "YES QUEEN" way).
So i was aware, and trying, buy messed up.
So. Theres a Snow Mill Crab in MH1. Could that be good here?
His uncle keeps evolving
id take the finale
you need to be more persistent with this deck. Maybe we could start a petition to encourage this?