Fixing A Sticking Jack - Piano Tuning & Repair I HOWARD PIANO INDUSTRIES
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- Опубликовано: 20 июл 2024
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Fixing A Sticking Jack - Piano Tuning & Repair I HOWARD PIANO INDUSTRIES
One of the most common causes of a sticking piano key is a jack that won't return. There are a couple of things that can cause this and we show you in this demonstration video how to diagnose and correct this problem.
To see this video along with a related video on this topic as well as a list of parts and tools needed for this repair you can visit our website: www.howardpianoindustries.com...
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🎥 Video Chapters
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00:00 - Intro
01:48 - Checking for Lost Motion
02:43 - Checking the Jack
03:05 - Whippen Closeup
04:34 - Checking the Tightness (Gram Tension Gauge)
05:31 - Adjusting Jack Spring
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Thank you so much sir! These videos are awesome, they thought me how to diagnose and fix my otherwise malfunctioning piano. Keep up the great work!
i cant play the piano but i got 1 10 years ago and i stripped bits off of it and replaced all jack spring all balance pins and all bridle straps,for me the piano is a wonderful piece of mechanics,sadly i dont have mine anymore but just watching and seeing the most amazing instrument is an absolute joy to me .
After I watched your regulating the capstans video, I did go back and check the jacks, with a tool like you used in this video, the one you use to adjust sticker type capstans in a taller upright to gently play with the toes on all the jacks to make sure they moved freely and the springs were good.
Hi, Steve! Thank you for these useful videos. I'm wondering if you have any video here that shows and explains how to take the whippen away from the action? I think the spring may be the problem, but I don't know how to get to it. I'm a pianist not a professional piano repair person, and where I live there's none. I'm also wondering if you have a video on how to fix dampers that leave the string buzzing and/or leave the string ringing. Thank you
I live in Europe and am delighted that I can learn to fix different problems on my old August Förster baby grand. It has such a beautiful sound but sometimes needs some Flange repair..Thanks so very much!!!
Thank you for the video. What can I do when my key requires more than normal pressure to play a note?
Thank you, Eva
Thanks. I took out the jack part and started to wiggle it back and forth. I made it loose enough to fall back again. It was too stiff for a note to come out before this.
I had this problem too, and it took me awhile to figure out the problem. However I found these videos after the fact, this could have saved some time in diagnosing the problem. Turned out the capstans were adjusted way too high, some had to be turned back down a full half a turn to get any lost motion or jack gap.
My guess is that it was during a period of high humidity as the adjustment will fluctuate with humidity changes.
Very important!! thanks!
Steve, Is there a way to check the tension of the jack spring? In other words, how many grams of pressure would be ideal for the jack to move, when the spring is engaged? Thanks...
Thank you so much for your helpful guide. This video helped me to diagnose my sticky key problem and fix it with a bit of lubricant. Subscribed!
That's great to hear! We're glad it was helpful. Thank you for subscribing!
Great video. Looking forward to fixing Somme sticky keys
¡What a wonderful explanation. Thanks¡
Hello Howard, Love your video's. Can you make one about replacing the string demping part (tools you need to remove the red and white stuf, and sort of glue used to place new once) and adjusting string demper position, if theu dont touch the string anymore. I have a Buffetpiano around 80 years old. Thanks
Hi David, I just use a utility knife to scrape off the old felt from the damper head and use PVC-E glue for gluing on new damper felts.
Hello, my new upright came with the hammers showing a light darkening or shading in the felt. I noticed that because one hammer needed be replaced. Should i take it Back? Thx sprry for my english
Great video.
Hello. I learned quite a few things from you and appreciate your videos!! I need to oil a hammer jack on the joint of the wippen. Would 3-in- one oil be safe to use or sewing machine oil? What would be a good alternative to Protek clp? Since it's deep in the action, how would I go about to lubricate the pin-joint?
Hello, I commented on a video from you previously and you recommended me to use PTFE for the key pins, and in this video that you would recommend me to use as a lubricant? Thank you very much for taking your time to answer your channel has a great content. God bless you, greetings from Argentina.
Unfortunately you can’t use PTFE powder on the center pins. If your center pins are tight, you’ll probably need to repin the flanges.
Can’t thank you enough!
Hi, Steve. As it turns out, I do not have a gram gauge readily available to me, but I just devised a way to check the stiffness of the center pin.
What I did was to pick two wippens from the same piano, and held them horizontally on a flat surface, in the same direction.
Then I picked the smallest, lightest coin I could find (In my currency, it's a 10 pesewa coin).
I disengaged the jack spring and then lay the jack flat so that it touched the little piece of wood in front of it (from the end of the wippen which is opposite the spring)
Once it was flat, I carefully placed the coin on top of it and then gently lifted the jack a very small amount. I compared this for both wippens.
I found that in one of the wippens, the coin's weight caused the jack to fall downwards, but in the other wippen it did not. In the other wippen, I then used a slightly heavier coin and it finally fell.
So that gave me a good way to tell the difference in tightness of the centre pin.
Unfortunately, I do not have access to Protek CLP in my country, so it looks like I need to find an alternative. What can I do?
Hi Elikem, Yes, there are alternative ways to check the tension level of the flanges. Your method sounds like it’s working. We are able to ship Protek CLP to other countries.
@@howardpianoind Thank you for the information. Have a great day.
First off, I want to thank you for all your videos. Very comprehensive, which is greatly appreciated when there is so much to learn!! I just got an upright piano a few months ago and when I press one specific key, sometimes it works, and sometimes it gets stuck down. When the key is stuck down, the hammer for that specific key is stuck forward, closer to the strings. It doesn't return back into place unless I move it back manually with my finger. Is that something that happens with this problem? Is this truly the video I need? Also, the key that is giving me problems is an E key that's not easily accessible in terms of its positioning on the action. I saw your video on how to remove the entire piano action, but did I miss how to access that individual problem key? Again, thanks so much for all of these videos. They're really great! :)
Hi Ashley,
Thanks for letting me know that you've found our videos to be helpful. The sticking key could be caused by a sluggish jack, but there are a number of other things that could cause this problem as well. The way to remove the whippen, which is the part of the action that the jack is attached to, is by removing the whippen flange screw once you have the action out. The whippen flange screw is located on the back of the action behind the spoon. If you watch our video on vertical piano action parts: ruclips.net/video/BR3NU3T1GGs/видео.html you'll get a better idea of how to remove the whippen. Please let me know if you have any other questions. I'm glad to help.
Key not hitting string, I believe it's the Jack how do you access it ? By taking the action out ? I found the problem. The tuner guy I had in dropped a screw behind the hammers. So today after taking the action out and taking the the Jack assembly apart I found the screw and the wire behind the hammer had been affected. So took the screw out put the wire back in place behind the hammer and put back the Jack assembly and Viola. I must tell you it is very hard to see that wire behind the hammer.
So can you tell me. When i press the key the stick or the jackhammer ( i dont know if that is the thing) at the back goes down but when i let go off the key it doesnt go up so what is the problem
Could you do a video on how to provide estimates for repairs? What types of services have a standard rate? (ie evaluation, hourly rates)
Hi Darren. Thanks for watching. Yes, I'll put this on my list for future videos. I can see how this could be helpful.
Thanks for all your great videos. I am learning so much. I have a Mason & Hamlin screw stringer upright that I can't get a technician to touch. So, I am trying to make some repairs myself. I have what I thought was a stuck E3 but after removing the hammer (from watching your video) I found the problem is the jack is unglued. The problem now is I can't find instruction anywhere on how to get the jack portion out so I can re-glue it and replace it all. Can you tell me where to find that information please. My eyes are blurred from watching so many videos trying to find it. Thanks so much!
Carol
Michael and Carol Blackburn mine is also unglued. I’m not afraid to glue it, lube it, and do whatever else needs done. I just haven’t figured out how to remove the entire Wippen first. Did you ever figure yours out? I realize it’s been a couple years.
Howard, how do you lubricate the pin? Do you remove it and lubricate it? Or you just apply it while the jack is still attached? I really like your videos!!! Keep up the good work!
You would apply the lubricant with the jack attached. The Protek CLP will soak into the felt around the pin.
Thanks for the video. Do you have a recommended website or manufacture where I can buy the piano parts/pieces from such as the springs and pins?
Yes, we sell all of the parts and tools shown in our videos on our website: www.howardpianoindustries.com/ Please let me know if you have trouble finding anything.
Great videos !
Here’s my question.
I have an player added to my Baldwin grand.
One of the player cd’s songs actually stuck One of the keys .
I didn’t notice !
this until after I removed the player tape.
How do I unstick this key?
This is difficult to diagnose because the cause could be in the normal piano action or it could be caused by the player mechanism.
Thanks Howard! Where's the link to the 'repin the flange' video?
Hi Jake,
Thanks for watching! I'm sorry, I hadn't gotten a chance to add the link for the flange repinning video yet, but here is the link: Piano Tuning & Repair - Fixing loose or tight piano flanges
My piano is making tapping noises and it's the keys them self can u help
He sounds exactly like Bob Odenkirk.
Jonatan naw Jordan Peterson
@@theycallmealex454 both
Hahaha I've watched so many videos on this channel and think of Odenkirk everytime. Glad I'm not the only one!
It would be nice to have the same explanation on a grand piano.
Thanks for your suggestion. Stay tuned...., we hope to produce more instructional videos in the near future.
I have a dead/dropped key. THE FLANGE BETWEEN THE WIPPEN AND THE JACK HAS SEPARATED FROM WHERE IT'S NORMALLY ATTACHED TO THE WIPPEN. There are no fractures or other issues (e.g., binding joints) that I am aware of though I have not disassembled things to fully evaluate that. I intend to, after gently tying the jack spring out of the way with a fine bit of wire, glue the flange back in place where it straddles the wippen using common yellow wood glue. IF YOU HAVE ANY COMMENTS ON MY PLAN, PLEASE ADVISE.
Hello, let me first say I am not at all a piano technician lol. I’ve been playing a long time and I’ve learned a lot over the years. I’m pretty capable of fixing most of the common problems with pianos. However, I’ve recently encountered something puzzling. I’m working on a 1970 story and Clark console with lazy jacks/sticking keys. I assumed at first the center pin was to tight so I lubricated them but had no luck. I tried replacing the entire whippin on one key just to see if the action was the problem and the Jacks still won’t return. Any ideas what else it could be I’m kinda at a loss here.
It's possible that the key itself is tight either in one or both of the key bushings, or it could even be that the key has warped a little and is rubbing on one of the keys next to it. If the key isn't able to fully return like it should, then the jack won't be able to return properly either. It also could be that the jack is so tight that lubricant isn't enough to free it up. In that case, you would need to take the pin out and ream the hole to the proper size and repin the parts.
Hoping you are still answering questions, I have taken out the action and clean under all the keys. upon putting the action back two keys completely locked.. not sticking, just locked ... the key will not move, and when i hand move the hammer it will not move. It feels like i have jammed something. I cant find anywhere that it is jammed. What am I missing? I have a Mason Risch Serial 22807, so I figure 1910 year built. The action was completely overhauled 36 years ago. It has done well, been played a lot and then stored and played in an outdoor shed in Ontario. No water damage, no mice, I had 3 sticky keys, but when i cleaned it... They corrected themselves but then I now have two "jammed" Locked, will not move when I put the action back. I cant see what I have done wrong.
Any help would be appreciated...
The most likely cause of the problem is that the jack is getting stuck underneath the hammer butt felt instead of being in front of the felt. Most of the time this is caused because of a broken bridle strap. What you'll want to look for is if the top of the jack is stuck too far back. If you pull the top of the jack toward you this should release the hammer so that it can return back to where it should be and should play correctly.
Several jacks on a client of mine's piano have been sticking, and I tried everything you describe here except replacing the jack springs (though I did stretch them), and nothing worked. Is replacing the jack springs the answer, or should I just install new whippens? The piano is a cheap Chinese upright that's in good condition, though poorly built.
You'll want to first check to see that the jack pinning is loose enough. If it is, it could be the problem is caused by something else. Other things that could be the issue are if the capstan is too high not allowing enough space between the top of the jack and the hammer butt. You can pull back slightly on the hammer rail to see if the hammer follows a small amount to determine if there is a small amount of jack gap. The other thing that could cause the problem is if there is some binding in the key which makes it so the key doesn't completely return. I would check these things. Replacing the whippen isn't usually the solution. It could be the jack spring, but these other things I mentioned are the first things to check as they are more common.
At 1:28 you mention about the jack not being able to return completely, my problem is the opposite, the jack wont come out of its place, it is as if (when I hit the key) the hammer was hitting the string and staying right next to the string instead of returning. Whats the solution for that?
It sounds like the hammer flange pinning is too tight. You'll want to take the hammer butt out and check the tightness of the flange.
Thanks for replying! I'll check it out!
At 4:12 these are definitely the copper springs on eBay. Do you sell these as well?
We do sell the jack springs. The ones we have aren’t copper, but they work just as well.
excelent. I only have a suggestion and it's that your mic should be higher (volume)
Can you pull out just one of the jacks without pulling out the whole action? I have a couple sticking keys but they’re hard to access within the whole action.
The whole action needs to be removed because the jack is part of the whippen which is attached by a screw at the back of the action.
My piano wont play a note when I lift it slightly from its pushed down position and try to play it again, in other words, I have to lift the key almost all the way up to play the note again. It kinda hinders my ability to play well. Does anyone know how to fix it or what the problem is called so I can get an expert.
how do i take out/reach the jack?
You’ll have to remove the whippen which is attached to the action by a screw on the back of the action so you’ll need to remove the action from the piano.
How do you pull the jack out?
The whippen can be removed by taking out the screw that holds the whippen flange in place. This is on the back of the action so you do need to remove the action in order to get the whippen out. The jack is part of the whippen.
This is a great video. I'm having problems with my 15 year old upright. The jack doesn't return all the way. And usually when I begin to play it works but after awhile it stops. So I looked into it and yeah the jack isn't returning. So what would be my course of action. ? Spring or felt around pin swelling after I start playing.
The most common cause is the felt is tight around the center pin. Using
some Protek CLP may work, but the best thing to do would be to resize
the felt and repin the jack flange.
my key doesn't return and the hammer wobbles what should I do thanks for the vid
The hammer wobbling could be that the flange screw could be loose or it could be that the center pin is loose or is coming out of the flange.
I am trying to fix my spinet piano and the videos dont show a spinet inside OR the steps to remove a hammer
Removing a hammer on a spinet piano can most of the time ( but not always ) be done without removing the action, but it requires a long shaft thin slotted screwdriver, good lighting, and patience. Also, it's difficult to do without dropping the hammer flange screw somewhere in the action so you will also need a magnet screw retrieving tool. If you have several hammers to work it may be more efficient to remove the action to do the work. See our educational video entitled "Removing a spinet piano action" for detailed information.
3:19 how do I get those out from my piano?
The whippen is held in place by a screw on the back of the action behind the damper lever. You would need to remove the action in order to get access to it.
Hi Steve! I have a spinet with a few problem keys, and a need to replace bridle straps. Having watched your videos, I have a good idea to do so, but the method of accessing my action is more complex than how I've seen in your videos. There's no drop action with the grommets; there's a large amount of woodwork that dog leg from the key pins down to the bottom of the action. I have a hard time accessing the middle keys especially and it seems the only way to access anything inside is to unscrew all 88 of the wooden hinges. The problem with that is it's difficult to adjust the jack back into place. Can you give me a quick idea of how it's done or post a video with a spinet having this kind of action? Thank you!
It sounds like you have a type of spinet action that has a rail that holds the lifters. If this is the case, you should be able to unscrew the brackets that hold the rail and lift the whole mechanism out that way.
howardpianoind Thanks for your response. I have unscrewed the rail before, but now I'm encountering some trouble with the hammers. There's about 60% of the straps broken. Confidentially all the strapless hammers are forced forward. Is it solely due to the lack of straps, or is it possible the jack has slipped out of place due to me unscrewing the rail, letting things move around?
Hi again Steve. I replaced the straps ordered through your site. Super quick shipping by the way. Now that I'm almost done and ready to anchor the straps onto the pin, I noticed they're slightly too short. Is it essential to keep the straps threaded through the hole in the back of the hammer element? It's too difficult at this juncture to adjust the strap clips since they're near inaccessible. Please let me know. Thanks!
It somewhat has to do with the straps being broken. The problem is caused in that when you put the action back in, because the bridle strap isn't there to hold the whippen up, the top of the jack ends up getting stuck underneath the bottom of the hammer butt felt rather than in front of it and it is pushing the hammer butt too far up.
The strap doesn't have to go through the hole. Also if the straps are still slightly too short, you can bend the bridle wire a little toward the hammer butt.
So the jack on my upright piano has dislodged from the rocker. How can we fix that at home without spending a fortune? I dunno if age is a factor, but just in case our piano was built in 1905, and i doubt its had many repairs or replacements since then
This problem is fairly easy to repair. The Jack flange can be fixed by gluing it with wood glue back onto the whippen base.
Some of the hammers on my piano is stuck to the strings... How do i fix that
From your description of the problem, it's difficult to tell what would be causing this. Does the hammer not fall back? This could be caused by the bridle strap being broken and the top of the jack may be pushing up on the bottom of the hammer butt felt instead of in front of the felt which would cause the hammer to be stuck too far forward.
I actually broke one of my e keys trying to fix a simple problem to the point where nothing I do can fix it but Im watching this so i dont break future keys trying to fix them
I'm sorry to hear about the problem you had. What part broke in the key that it isn't able to be fixed?
where is the video on the spring substitution???
Hi Caleb,
Here is a link to the video on replacing jack springs: ruclips.net/video/HadRm1u2EnI/видео.html
@UCr_CSpTPaedbMMC89sazTnA or anyone can you link me to the video for the cap cylinder repair? @2:38
Also, my 2 hammers are too close to each other, they are literally touching and get stuck on one another, how do I fix that?
Here is a link to the video on adjusting the capstan: ruclips.net/video/0uQtgKpOGcI/видео.html
And here is a link to the video on correcting rubbing hammers: ruclips.net/video/Puj2HREUFYo/видео.html
Ok, ok, I get it, but HOW do you get the mechanism OUT of the piano to able to fix it please??!!! (not to mention, PUT IT BACK properly as well!)
We have a video on how to take the action out of the piano: ruclips.net/video/G4lZ7qLh3CU/видео.html. Once you have the action out, the whippen is held in by a screw on the back of the action behind the damper lever. You'll also need to unhook the bridle strap for the whippen to come out.
i actually fixed this issue by just wiggling the piece connected to the pin side to side and it loosened up
That's great!
3 or 4 grams of pressure. Ahhh! I totally understand what you are saying but my head is exploding. pressure = force/area
How did you even get that part out?????!!!!!!!! That’s my question
Here is a video which should help: ruclips.net/video/rXseuhnBENI/видео.html
These problems can cause nightmares all week long
I need videos of a spinet. These videos don't look anything like my piano
The process with the parts is basically the same in a spinet, the difference is that it is more difficult to access the action and parts in a spinet because the action is dropped down below the level of the backs of the keys.
i got an old spinet, and I used CLP for guns.
If.....the key is not moving smoothly up and down you have the same problem...
FIRST.!! ..Check the keys ...
Who is watching this and thinking about trigger sirs? 😂
the visual on your video is not close enough and at times the parts you are holding go out of frame. very frustrating to watch.
i think in my piano there are something wrong with the hammer part
The hammer flange can have the same problem as the jack flange in being too tight.
howardpianoind okay . Do I have to take it off to fix it? can I fix it without pulling it out
No, unfortunately there isn't a way to repair the part without removing it.
Im afraid to fix my piano
Why am I watching videos about hammer butts? I don't even own a piano
Maybe because piano actions are interesting?
Bro, you sound like Saul Goodman.
American master-blablablabla!
This dude sounds exactly like Jordan Peterson
TheyCallMyAss Alex I cant Unhear this now