Howard, Many years ago when I was early in my career I used this method too and with practice you can become fairly proficient. However, in hammer shaping a little goes a long way. I not longer use this filing jig for the dremel. I find it way too aggressive and removes felt way to fast for my comfort zone. I have had to reshape way too many poor jobs done this way by a person with little or no experience. In some cases the hammer were no longer viable and I had to notify a customer that there was little I could do to correct the situation. As a training video production you are very thorough and information. I think you need to add a opening warning that this method is not for the beginner or handyman. Even the old uprights deserve this respect. Paddle filing by hand removes felt slower and much less aggressively which is more professional in the long run.
As a tech who’s still learning, I love reviewing your videos whenever I’m about to attempt a task I’m not entirely comfortable with. I’m working towards my RPT’s - thank you for sharing this accessible and helpful content, I appreciate you so much!😊
Great video Howard. After experimenting with the Dremel I have been using single edge razor blades that you can get in packs of 50 for around $10 which accomplish the removal of felt as quickly as the Dremel but with more control and no dust. I mark the center top of the hammers then cut down on both sides leaving 1/8" of the grooves. Then remove the sides of the grooves with fine sanding cloth, leaving the undisturbed and existing string marks. Note: Not all blades are created equal. A sharp blade will cut through the felt like butter.
That's an interesting method! Do you use the razor blades the same way you'd shave your beard (without the soap & water, obviously)? I mean, do you use some kind of grip for your blade, or do you just hold it between your fingertips?
fingernail files (emery board) available anywhere (Wall Mart, Target, Drug store) makes an excellent tool for hammers. They are the perfect size for shaping hammers without removing the action and be cut for more clearance. They are not only cheap, there is no sand paper to attach or come loose.
Great video for fans and students of piano tuning and repair..vi Thank you very much for your wonderful video ... keep cosi..un greeting by your student internet Italian. Saverio Salerno
This is all very interesting. I just got an antique square grand and all the hammers are heavily grooved. Significantly smaller hammers that modern hammers, but I would like to attempt to get it playable while still keeping as much of it original as possible. I’m totally new to piano restoration and still have lots of research to do before I attempt anything.
I always wondered why my E4 key seemed harder to press than other keys. I finally opened up the piano and found the hammer head to be at least 1/2 inch smaller (further away from the strings) than the other hammers. No wonder!
My upper third and lower third are quite angled on my upright. Is it possible to file them in the forward position where they would be striking the strings, so they are all in the same plane?
You mentioned a video showing using a needle to adjust the voicing; however, other than a video showing the tools, I can't find one using the needles to adjust the felt. A link anyone?
Thank you very much for your wonderful videos! Can you please tell me if you have a video for needling hammers? (Like you mention minute 14:30). Thanks
Yes, filing and shaping the hammers can certainly have an affect on the tone of the hammers to some degree. But if the felt is packed down from use, needling the felt will be necessary to achieve the tone you want.
At 14:28 in this video you say that you'll demonstrate hammer needling in another video, but I have not been able to find that video. Did you ever create it? If I'm using a device with a smaller screen it can be difficult to search through your videos because they all have the title of "Piano Tuning & Repair..." and I can't see the rest of the text. If you have a free hour one of these days, it would be helpful if that text was at the end of the titles for SEO so that it didn't obstruct actual human use. Regardless, many thanks for all of your videos. I was considering a piano tech course, but I think your videos plus a few practice pianos will be just as good.
Hi Jeremy, Thanks for watching. I never got around to making a video on needle voicing. I may be able to get to this in the future. Thanks for the tip on the titles! Good luck with your training. Definitely get the book "Pianos Inside Out" if you don't have it already. It will be a huge resource as you come across questions in your work as well as a good teaching resource. Steve
Very informative video Steve. Have been meaning to get my G2 voiced for awhile now and regulated abit lighter on the touch. I was gonna try it myself but obviously that's a bad idea on a piano that you care about, especially if you don't really know what your doing
Yes, it's best to get some practice on a piano that maybe doesn't have a lot of value. Maybe a piano that is in pretty rough shape that mostly only has room for improvement.
Yep an older wreck that can't be fixed fully but something you can practice on, wouldn't even use my Hayes upright even though that needs work too. These videos are really informative and teach me alot even though I'm not interested in going into the trade just like to learn. Keep em up.
Howard great video, quick question, when hammers fet files should they also get retouched on the let-off distance since it is techinically taking away material and opening the let-off gap. Thanks
Yes, generally the letoff and maybe some of the other regulation adjustments would need to be made because of this. It also affects the hammer blow distance.
Hi, just got a second-hand Schafer & Sons piano. I have 2 issues, if you can address them for me, that would be great :). 1. Some of the hammers are more forward (closer to strings) than others 2. One key will sometimes get stuck and won't play unless you hit it really hard. (Hammer doesn't move, but I can see the thing behind it moving) Thanks!
It sounds like you may have tight hammer flanges. The pinning between the hammer butt and flange is too tight in the felt bushing in the hole. Sometimes Protek CLP will help this, but the part may need to be reamed and repinned.
@@howardpianoind Yes, after much research, I saw what is happening. There is a little arm below the hammer that sometimes does not return to its original position and gets caught on the hammer. that part would need to be repinned it seems.
hi, I'm planing to take an online course on Piano Technician Academy, was told is a 4 months program to get a Certified Piano Technician. Does taking an online course like this is recognize internationally? Because I'm now living in Malaysia and probably planing to move to Italy. Any advice?
I have heard of the Piano Technician Academy. I don't know how widely recognized it is. With these types of programs it is only as widely recognized as people are familiar with it. In many cases, certification doesn't really do much for you, unless you'll be working in a college or university setting. I can't ever remember an instance where any of my customers asked me if I was certified. Sometimes they will ask where I got my training, but this doesn't usually have much of an affect on my business level. Probably the biggest factor is just your reputation in the local area. I often have people tell me that they know I'm the best technician in the area. I know quite well that this isn't true as there are a number of technicians who are more advanced than I am in this area, but I know from these comments that at least I have a good reputation for doing good honest work.
interesting dremel gadget. Is it not easier, quicker and better to take them off and do them in the vise with a strip of sandpaper ? That´s how I do them... it takes me about an hour once they`re off.
That is another method for filing the hammers. There is more than one way to do this, but everyone has their preference as to what is faster and easier.
Simon Nicholas Bryan yes speed shouldn't really be a factor in this as it can lead to mistakes that are more expensive and time consuming to fix ie new hammers needed
Hi yes I know you don't want to file across the top to make a flat hammer but do you have to take ALL the grooves out? I was thinking of filing the whole groove out them reshape the hammer ?
Steve I have a question. I have a Knobe Grand player piano. all of the hammers are not egged shaped. The look like they are flat on each side plus some are double hammering. should the hammers be replaced or not? I looked at the knuckles and they look very warn and black. Do I need to replace them or can I recondition them. I love this 6' Knobe baby Ampico Grand Player piano. I also want to hook it to my pipe organ.I can send pictures of what the problem areas. Thank you Mike
Thanks Mike, Yes, it sounds like you may need to replace the hammers in order to get the best sound out of your piano. And the knuckles can be replaced or reconditioned, but the amount of work to recondition them may not be worth it for the price of a set of knuckles. Also the performance will be better if you put knuckles on as opposed to reconditioning the old ones. Pictures would be helpful. If you want, you can go ahead and repost your question on our forum for our website where you can also add pictures. Here is a link: howardpianoindustries.com/forum/
There is a way to reglue the felt, but because the tension the felt is under you have to clamp it well while the glue dries. One method is to wrap the felt in several direction with thread.
@@Jimmy-rd5ig Yes, regulation was needed, the strings are 86 years old. But in the end I did them attached to the rail. It's harder to see the shape as holding one detached but it would have been too long otherwise.
maybe apply a new thin layer of felt could work after we shape the old? instead of buying new ones. the ones we have are very old, maybe 100 years old i am on a very tight budget
The hammers are made by using great force to stretch a sheet of tightly compressed felt over the wood inner core of the hammer. This process results in the outer layers of felt on top of the hammer to be very taught and tight. This gives the hammers the resiliency they need to produce good tone. This condition cannot be achieved by simply attaching a new thin layer of felt to the top of the hammer.
I can't seem to find any info. What tools, setup, or structure do you use to prop the action up to work on it? I don't have a garage, so I'll have to do maintenance at the piano in the room it's in.
I sanded out the lines in the hammers but some of the strings now sound dull. I don't want to make it worse. did I make the hammers to flat? If I needle the hammers will that make it even more dull? thanks
After reshaping my upright hammers I took KEVLAR tape to each hammer and , first sticking to the wood under the hammer then streching round the the reshaped front glued it to the wood at the top. Plainly NO glue must get on the felt. The so called "super glue" is fine as it dries fast , just do not get it on your fingers!!
can you replace the piano hammers on one instrument with those of another? are they usually the same size? and if not, is it possible to tweak them a bit so that they are?
It may be possible to do this, though in most cases they wouldn't be an exact match unless the two pianos were the same model or used the exact same hammers. Though the work to switch the hammers wouldn't necessarily be worth the effort when you could just put in new hammers.
I came into an old piano from a relative but it hasn't been kept in good condition. Spare piano parts in decent condition are often found online whereas custom parts are much more expensive, so much that I could ditch the old piano and buy another second-hand in a proper condition.
For the sandpaper file I use a fairly course grit such as 60. For the sandpaper strips it is good to have at least a couple of different grits. Maybe 100 and 150.
Great video Howard. After experimenting with the Dremel I have been using single edge razor blades that you can get in packs of 50 for around $10 which accomplish the removal of felt as quickly as the Dremel but with more control and no dust. I mark the center top of the hammers then cut down on both sides leaving 1/8" of the grooves. Then remove the sides of the grooves with fine sanding cloth, leaving the undisturbed and existing string marks. Note: Not all blades are created equal. A sharp blade will cut through the felt like butter.
Howard, Many years ago when I was early in my career I used this method too and with practice you can become fairly proficient. However, in hammer shaping a little goes a long way. I not longer use this filing jig for the dremel. I find it way too aggressive and removes felt way to fast for my comfort zone. I have had to reshape way too many poor jobs done this way by a person with little or no experience. In some cases the hammer were no longer viable and I had to notify a customer that there was little I could do to correct the situation. As a training video production you are very thorough and information. I think you need to add a opening warning that this method is not for the beginner or handyman. Even the old uprights deserve this respect. Paddle filing by hand removes felt slower and much less aggressively which is more professional in the long run.
Agree 100%
He still did mention it's aggressive and that when he does it he uses the smallest slot to remove the least felt.
As a tech who’s still learning, I love reviewing your videos whenever I’m about to attempt a task I’m not entirely comfortable with. I’m working towards my RPT’s - thank you for sharing this accessible and helpful content, I appreciate you so much!😊
Thanks a lot, Howard. You are so generous sharing your knowledge. My best wishes for you.
Great video Howard. After experimenting with the Dremel I have been using single edge razor blades that you can get in packs of 50 for around $10 which accomplish the removal of felt as quickly as the Dremel but with more control and no dust. I mark the center top of the hammers then cut down on both sides leaving 1/8" of the grooves. Then remove the sides of the grooves with fine sanding cloth, leaving the undisturbed and existing string marks. Note: Not all blades are created equal. A sharp blade will cut through the felt like butter.
That's an interesting method! Do you use the razor blades the same way you'd shave your beard (without the soap & water, obviously)? I mean, do you use some kind of grip for your blade, or do you just hold it between your fingertips?
fingernail files (emery board) available anywhere (Wall Mart, Target, Drug store) makes an excellent tool for hammers. They are the perfect size for shaping hammers without removing the action and be cut for more clearance. They are not only cheap, there is no sand paper to attach or come loose.
So appreciated!
Great video for fans and students of piano tuning and repair..vi Thank you very much for your wonderful video ... keep cosi..un greeting by your student internet Italian.
Saverio Salerno
Thank you, Master. I learn a lot from you.
This is all very interesting. I just got an antique square grand and all the hammers are heavily grooved. Significantly smaller hammers that modern hammers, but I would like to attempt to get it playable while still keeping as much of it original as possible. I’m totally new to piano restoration and still have lots of research to do before I attempt anything.
I always wondered why my E4 key seemed harder to press than other keys. I finally opened up the piano and found the hammer head to be at least 1/2 inch smaller (further away from the strings) than the other hammers. No wonder!
Hi, can you show me how to fixT-pin on the split hammerhead.
My upper third and lower third are quite angled on my upright. Is it possible to file them in the forward position where they would be striking the strings, so they are all in the same plane?
You mentioned a video showing using a needle to adjust the voicing; however, other than a video showing the tools, I can't find one using the needles to adjust the felt. A link anyone?
Thank you very much for your wonderful videos!
Can you please tell me if you have a video for needling hammers? (Like you mention minute 14:30). Thanks
Is there any 1 thing one can do to 'ungroove' deep string grooves?
Not that I'm aware of .
@@howardpianoind The iron and damp cloth won't fluff up the felt?
I haven’t tried this method, but if you’ve heard from someone that has had good success it may be something that would work.
Hi Steve. Is it possible or practical to make the tone of an oriental grand piano warmer by shaping or filling the hammers? Thanks
Yes, filing and shaping the hammers can certainly have an affect on the tone of the hammers to some degree. But if the felt is packed down from use, needling the felt will be necessary to achieve the tone you want.
At 14:28 in this video you say that you'll demonstrate hammer needling in another video, but I have not been able to find that video. Did you ever create it?
If I'm using a device with a smaller screen it can be difficult to search through your videos because they all have the title of "Piano Tuning & Repair..." and I can't see the rest of the text. If you have a free hour one of these days, it would be helpful if that text was at the end of the titles for SEO so that it didn't obstruct actual human use.
Regardless, many thanks for all of your videos. I was considering a piano tech course, but I think your videos plus a few practice pianos will be just as good.
Hi Jeremy,
Thanks for watching. I never got around to making a video on needle voicing. I may be able to get to this in the future. Thanks for the tip on the titles! Good luck with your training. Definitely get the book "Pianos Inside Out" if you don't have it already. It will be a huge resource as you come across questions in your work as well as a good teaching resource.
Steve
Very informative video Steve. Have been meaning to get my G2 voiced for awhile now and regulated abit lighter on the touch. I was gonna try it myself but obviously that's a bad idea on a piano that you care about, especially if you don't really know what your doing
Yes, it's best to get some practice on a piano that maybe doesn't have a lot of value. Maybe a piano that is in pretty rough shape that mostly only has room for improvement.
Yep an older wreck that can't be fixed fully but something you can practice on, wouldn't even use my Hayes upright even though that needs work too. These videos are really informative and teach me alot even though I'm not interested in going into the trade just like to learn. Keep em up.
Is there any tool to fix t- pin on the hammerhead.
Howard great video, quick question, when hammers fet files should they also get retouched on the let-off distance since it is techinically taking away material and opening the let-off gap. Thanks
Yes, generally the letoff and maybe some of the other regulation adjustments would need to be made because of this. It also affects the hammer blow distance.
Is there a grain to the hammers in that you need to file in one direction only (as in filing fingernails with the grain)?
The felt is wrapped around the core of the hammer so it's good to take the felt off in layers.
Hi, just got a second-hand Schafer & Sons piano. I have 2 issues, if you can address them for me, that would be great :).
1. Some of the hammers are more forward (closer to strings) than others
2. One key will sometimes get stuck and won't play unless you hit it really hard. (Hammer doesn't move, but I can see the thing behind it moving)
Thanks!
It sounds like you may have tight hammer flanges. The pinning between the hammer butt and flange is too tight in the felt bushing in the hole. Sometimes Protek CLP will help this, but the part may need to be reamed and repinned.
@@howardpianoind Yes, after much research, I saw what is happening. There is a little arm below the hammer that sometimes does not return to its original position and gets caught on the hammer. that part would need to be repinned it seems.
hi, I'm planing to take an online course on Piano Technician Academy, was told is a 4 months program to get a Certified Piano Technician. Does taking an online course like this is recognize internationally? Because I'm now living in Malaysia and probably planing to move to Italy. Any advice?
I have heard of the Piano Technician Academy. I don't know how widely recognized it is. With these types of programs it is only as widely recognized as people are familiar with it. In many cases, certification doesn't really do much for you, unless you'll be working in a college or university setting. I can't ever remember an instance where any of my customers asked me if I was certified. Sometimes they will ask where I got my training, but this doesn't usually have much of an affect on my business level. Probably the biggest factor is just your reputation in the local area. I often have people tell me that they know I'm the best technician in the area. I know quite well that this isn't true as there are a number of technicians who are more advanced than I am in this area, but I know from these comments that at least I have a good reputation for doing good honest work.
interesting dremel gadget.
Is it not easier, quicker and better to take them off and do them in the vise with a strip of sandpaper ?
That´s how I do them... it takes me about an hour once they`re off.
That is another method for filing the hammers. There is more than one way to do this, but everyone has their preference as to what is faster and easier.
Simon Nicholas Bryan yes speed shouldn't really be a factor in this as it can lead to mistakes that are more expensive and time consuming to fix ie new hammers needed
Hi yes I know you don't want to file across the top to make a flat hammer but do you have to take ALL the grooves out? I was thinking of filing the whole groove out them reshape the hammer ?
I think if you shape the hammer correctly the grooves will be gone.
Steve I have a question. I have a Knobe Grand player piano. all of the hammers are not egged shaped. The look like they are flat on each side plus some are double hammering. should the hammers be replaced or not? I looked at the knuckles and they look very warn and black. Do I need to replace them or can I recondition them. I love this 6' Knobe baby Ampico Grand Player piano. I also want to hook it to my pipe organ.I can send pictures of what the problem areas. Thank you Mike
Thanks Mike,
Yes, it sounds like you may need to replace the hammers in order to get the best sound out of your piano. And the knuckles can be replaced or reconditioned, but the amount of work to recondition them may not be worth it for the price of a set of knuckles. Also the performance will be better if you put knuckles on as opposed to reconditioning the old ones. Pictures would be helpful. If you want, you can go ahead and repost your question on our forum for our website where you can also add pictures. Here is a link: howardpianoindustries.com/forum/
hi, is there a way to glue felt back onto the hammer ?
There is a way to reglue the felt, but because the tension the felt is under you have to clamp it well while the glue dries. One method is to wrap the felt in several direction with thread.
You need to make a clamp. My hammer felts need high tension to hold them down so the tying thread method does not work.
Where can I get the 5:34 minute tool? , I like it a lot, rather the head that you use, sorry for my translator English .
We sell this tool in our online store. Here is a link to this: howardpianoindustries.com/drum-sander-guide-for-hammer-filing/
Hi, one question, when did I know that is convenient to reshaping the hammer, instead of buying a new ones?
If a significant amount of the felt has already been filed off, then it is time to replace the hammers.
Why sand the hammers still attached to the rail? I unscrew them, remove them one by one and can fine tune the sanding in any orientation I want.
Sounds like a full day of work! Is regulation needed since you removing them one by one?
@@Jimmy-rd5ig Yes, regulation was needed, the strings are 86 years old. But in the end I did them attached to the rail. It's harder to see the shape as holding one detached but it would have been too long otherwise.
maybe apply a new thin layer of felt could work after we shape the old?
instead of buying new ones. the ones we have are very old, maybe 100 years old
i am on a very tight budget
The hammers are made by using great force to stretch a sheet of tightly compressed felt over the wood inner core of the hammer. This process results in the outer layers of felt on top of the hammer to be very taught and tight. This gives the hammers the resiliency they need to produce good tone. This condition cannot be achieved by simply attaching a new thin layer of felt to the top of the hammer.
I can't seem to find any info. What tools, setup, or structure do you use to prop the action up to work on it? I don't have a garage, so I'll have to do maintenance at the piano in the room it's in.
I use an upright piano action cradle. We have the cradles available in our online store at www.howardpianoindustries.com
I sanded out the lines in the hammers but some of the strings now sound dull. I don't want to make it worse. did I make the hammers to flat? If I needle the hammers will that make it even more dull? thanks
Yes, needling the felt will soften the tone, so if you want a brighter sound, you'll need to add some hammer hardener to the hammers.
OK THANKS
After reshaping my upright hammers I took KEVLAR tape to each hammer and , first sticking to the wood under the hammer then streching round the the reshaped front glued it to the wood at the top. Plainly NO glue must get on the felt. The so called "super glue" is fine as it dries fast , just do not get it on your fingers!!
can you replace the piano hammers on one instrument with those of another? are they usually the same size? and if not, is it possible to tweak them a bit so that they are?
It may be possible to do this, though in most cases they wouldn't be an exact match unless the two pianos were the same model or used the exact same hammers. Though the work to switch the hammers wouldn't necessarily be worth the effort when you could just put in new hammers.
I came into an old piano from a relative but it hasn't been kept in good condition. Spare piano parts in decent condition are often found online whereas custom parts are much more expensive, so much that I could ditch the old piano and buy another second-hand in a proper condition.
waisehell definitely not worth restoring unless a steinway bosendorfer bluthner or fazioli etc
Hi Howard, what grit do you recommend for the sandpaper on the stick and the free sandpaper?
I generally use a 150 grit
howardpianoind Thanks
For the sandpaper file I use a fairly course grit such as 60. For the sandpaper strips it is good to have at least a couple of different grits. Maybe 100 and 150.
Thank you Howard
you talk much without saying much, learn to speak more clearly and concisely, without stumbling in so many uhhmmms
Thank you for your feedback!
Great video Howard. After experimenting with the Dremel I have been using single edge razor blades that you can get in packs of 50 for around $10 which accomplish the removal of felt as quickly as the Dremel but with more control and no dust. I mark the center top of the hammers then cut down on both sides leaving 1/8" of the grooves. Then remove the sides of the grooves with fine sanding cloth, leaving the undisturbed and existing string marks. Note: Not all blades are created equal. A sharp blade will cut through the felt like butter.