@@BrianD0313 yeah but she said he was missing.. so Adar is not out of the reach for the writers to make him Celeborn due to him being forced to take a new name to fool Sauron or some dumb shit like that when he was captured.
Come now; who wouldn't want to watch a one billion dollar fan fiction where Elrond can honestly tell his wife: "No no, that's not how your mother does it." No one wanted to see the legendary skills of Gil Galad, where the orcs new the name of his spear due to how many orcs it had killed. That would be boring I'm sure.
Ive read many comments saying the kiss was an obvious distraction. I think most people agree with that. The problem for some, including me, is the "method" of the distraction. As an alternative, with the distraction being as obvious as it was, I think a hug or kiss on the forehead would have been just as effective without spurring on needless controversy. One more thing. The swelling music and close up of the kiss made the scene even more distasteful. Just my opinion. Season 2 is much better but they keep finding ways to disappoint me with bad choices. The perversion ( by Tom Bombadil ) of Gandalfs lesson of pity and mercy to Frodo is another very distasteful choice. A choice which bothers me much more than this kiss issue. Because I love Tolkiens Middle-earth so very much, some of this shows recent choices has saddened me and definitely decreases my enjoyment of the series.
A distraction with the hand swap in full view of one of the orcs. Because orcs are going to care about kissing right "Decreases my enjoyment" Stuff like this is why it's offensive to think anyone, let alone a Tolkien fan, would find anything to enjoy in this travesty.
" I think most people agree with that." I think most people feel that the "distraction" story is designed to deflect from the truth, that this was a naked attempt to get viewers via schlock and rage bait. Show writing worthy of a trashy soap opera.
So Galadriel and Elronds mission was to warn Eregion and Celebrimbor about Sauron. Then Galadriel gets captured. Elrond proceeds to ride back to Lindon and then to Khazad Dum, then back to the Lindon army and then to Eregion. He had to pass by Eregion to get to Khazad Dum and he just didn’t feel like stopping there to tell them about Sauron. It feels like as soon as they stopped showing the scene transitions with the map, everybody just forgot what the map looks like
I think he came to Eregion with the army, they set up camp in the outskirts and then he road ahead with a small group to visit Kazadum and ask the dwarves for aid, then returned to the army. I don't see why we assume he rode all the way back to Lindon after going to Kazadum. Now, they could have clarified this, showing them setting up camp in preparation to come to Eregion's defense and then he mentions his secret plan, which then shows him in Kazadum.
Re: Sauron needing Celebrimbor to make the Nine... In the series, it seems that Celebrimbor is the one who teaches Sauron how to make the Rings. I think Sauron says as much in this episode. In the Books, it is Sauron who teaches the elves how to make the Rings, and the elves then make the rings for themselves. The whole idea is that he is getting the elves to make their own 'shackles', and Sauron then makes the One to control all the other Rings, while Celebrimbor makes the Three while Sauron is not there. Elves realize this and take off their rings, leading to Sauron's plan B: try to enslave the dwarves and the humans instead, using those 15 (edit: 16, duh) elven rings that he helped to create.
The books make way more sense. The series is unbelievably retarded. Here’s a big one: how is sauron going to make the one if he wasn’t even able to make one of the 9?
Not to mention that in the books, Celebrimbor doesn't trust Annatar like that. Which is why he forges the 3 rings in secret. He's not an idiot, or weak like they make him look on this show. He's also not some old man with a souped up coiffe. Smh they need to fire the casting director
Almost. The elven smiths were already making rings before Annatar/Sauron turned up. They were the "lesser rings". He gave them lore which helped them to make more powerful rings. He himself only ever made one ring, and it was a very crude affair, relying on the huge power from Orodruin combined with his own essence in order to accomplish his purpose. The 16 rings (not 15) which he gave to dwarves and men were just the ones he captured when he conquered Eregion. There may have been others besides the three that the elves were able to get out of Eregion.
@@blaxpoitation8528 True. Angus McBride did a great illustration of Celebrimbor for the Middle Earth Roleplaying system, which captures his eternal youth, skill and beauty.
So I went back and checked after somewhat recovering from the kiss, and there is a setup scene of the brooch being taken off, but NOT of Elrond passing it to her during the kiss. Not even a one second cut to his hand. Did I miss it multiple times? Either the scriptwriters failed their intro scriptwriting classes in college, OR they WANTED to ship E and C. I was so confused when I later realized a lock pick had been passed that I seriously gave credence to the idea that they wanted to imply Elrond “mouth passed” it to her. That would have been bad ass, but somehow even more yucky. Anyway, still not sure they were not implying this, but thank god they didn’t do a gratuitous tongue cam shot showing it. They at least got their Anton Chekhov 101 right - when you introduce a humongous troll in in act 1 for no apparent reason you MUST use it in act 3. 😂 On the continuing saga of ring order nonsense I’m anticipating the process of getting the nine out of Galadriel’s possession, and presumably back into Sauron’s is going to be yet another time wasting consequence of their ass backwards approach to redoing everything for no apparent reason. With so little character development, and so many glaring plot holes they needed to fill it is just a crime they were so inefficient with things like this. The whole Adar and Sauron relationship saga better have an absolutely tremendous payoff in the next episode when the cat finally come all the way out of the bad and we finally see why a guy that can make a bunch of people kill each other with his mind has played this long game with Adar since season 1. If not it’s going to be a mystery box that actually contains no mystery, and people just LOVE those. 🙄
you can see him hand it to her with his right hand and she takes it with her left. all of the orcs are looking right at them when this happens, which makes the scene even more stupid.
It also took me a long time to recover from this. But yes, they kiss, and after they kiss there is a wide shot and you can see Elrond slip the brooch into Galadriels hand. That's why I absolutely will not accept the excuse that it was only meant as a distraction.
easy... "oh stepdad... i got stuck in that ring of my mum..." ^^ or after this battle Elrond gets demoted to a plumber... and she can't do her own plumbing when her pipe is dirty... i mean... plotwise we are at that level anyways...
In Tolkien all rings were initially intended for elves, so they should look and feel made by elves. Here in RoP there is no reason for Celebrimbor having to make any other rings than the three.
Have you noticed that Rings of Power shies away from canon couples? Galadriel and Celeborn are not a thing. Same with Elrond meeting Celebrian. None of the other characters outside of Durin IV has a wife. Everyone is single in Middle-Earth. It’s VERY strange.
Rings of Power does shy away from many things including good writing and good acting. It's amazing how a show can consistently get worse as time goes on
I really realized how much the jumping between unrelated scenes made the show less enjoyable when I watched this episode. Just sticking with scenes related to a certain area of the story and the physical world made it feel like it was made by different people. The first 15-20 minutes, basically Celebrimbor and Annatar just interacting without overly frequent cuts, was lovely, him slowly realizing he's in an illusion just felt nice, still very "Movie" like, but I could enjoy it. I still think 50% of the show should've been about the relationship of Annatar and Celebrimbor, us getting to explore their relationship, properly. The entire show also suffers from the wrong ring-order you brought up in a video, this episode ending with the 9 rings being "taken away" doesn't really work. Wheras, if the 3 elven rings were being taken away it would be far more powerful since we know Sauron is going to get the 9 back. The show would've been so much better if we focused on Celebrimbor improving as a smith, finally able to make his own rings of power. He just feels so meek in the show compared to the Fëanor-grandson chad he ought to be. PS. The only ones who are allowed to platonically kiss each other on the mouth is Túrin and Beleg.
And then celebrimbor dropped his hammer and while he bent to pick it up Annatar peeked at that juicy behind, unable to control himself Annatar approached from behind....... yea no thanks I don't want to explore the relationship anymore 😂, this is what they wouldve made it into since everything needs to be turned into a teen romance, these women have no idea what they are doing.
27:13 Yeah, a better way to show this I think would've been having Mirdania still around, you could've had a point of her venerating Galadriel, and that being enough to break her from Annatar's hold would've been a nice moment and feel consequential. The no-name soldiers who just meaninglessly do whatever the writers want them to doesn't ring true. Also on Celebrimbor's motivation to work with Sauron - they've made a point of having Celebrimbor want to match Feanor, but as viewers are basically never given reason to know WHY that's a motivation. The prologue to the show neglected to mention him or the silmarils at all, and while a lot of First Age stuff is obviously unable to be covered, Tolkien writes all the necessary background right there in appendix A. They've smattered in references here and there in dialogue since, but nothing to impress upon you how consequential and ultimately ruinous they were, and that therefore Celebrimbor wanting to match them would be an obvious temptation but also dangerous and hubristic! Ultimately the show should've had far more focus on elves in these initial seasons, what we have instead is an underwhelming jack of all trades. Their aim to make Middle-earth have breadth has instead made it feel shallow (or like butter scraped... you get the idea).
True. Despite many claims to the contrary by defenders of the show, it has always been aimed at Tolkien fans. The show runners hoped to get the fans in as a core group of watchers, just as Peter Jackson did with the movies. But Jackson had respect for the law and produced a quality product - neither of which ROP has done. The fans aren't stupid.
The shows writer said that the kiss wasn't romantic and more like an elvish cultural thing.... Kinda like how certain primates bang their family members just to say good morning.... 😔 One good thing about this god awful fan fiction of a show is that it makes me appreciate the great outdoors a lot more. Aren't trees beautiful!
If it was something that elves do why is this the first time we are seeing it . Perhaps a hug would be more appropriate it would serve the same purpose getting her the broach but not look like something out of a lifetime movie.
The kiss is a red herring more likely -a simple ploy to slip her the broach pin to pick the lock. There are absolutely absurd things going on in this episode to be sure ..despite its better pacing.. the kiss isnt even a blip on the map really. The ways that Sairons powers work is hugely probematic -absolutely destructive to the entire story, for instance. The dude can create time loops. He he can flick his hand and cause ELVES to MURDER each other. Imo its basically an insalvagable endeavor to repair now. All we can hope for is entertaining comedy at the expense of the lore at this point. I really tried to give it a chance to. The billion dollars behind it is unthinkable -even the editing is aweful. Check out the jump cut after Celebrimbor gets blown up and then goes charging up the stairs, for example. You can even see the bounce that the stunt double took on the crash pad. Its like no one is even overseeing continuity or editing issues. Mindblowing.
And why would he have to chop his thumb off to get outbof these chained shackles? Hes in a dang metal forge! Accckk just unreal. Pardon my grammars cant edit from my phone
the kiss is a slap in the face because it's obvous it was shoehorned in just to create controversy. the swelling music and romantic rubs on the cheeks were terrible choices.
While I agree that from a fundamental level of character development and plot construction, there are way worse things in the story than the kiss; from a lore perspective, the E+G kiss is totally out of order and undeserved, plus the show never actually shows Elrond actually covertly slipping anything, which undermines the whole point of having the interaction.
One of the most lasting images of this story from the books is the moment (told in flashback in the Council of Elrond, and in the Appendices, and of course in the Silmarillion "Of the Rings of Power") when Sauron forged the ring, put it on his finger, and spoke the terrible words in Black Speech. At that moment, Celebrimbor "from afar heard him speak those words, and so his evil purposes were revealed." This is, almost, completely flattened by the sequence of events here. 'Well, we knew that these Rings were conceived by Morgoth's chief lieutenant, Sauron the Abhorred. Now he's forged a Master Ring too. How frightfully annoying. Better take off the Three Rings, huh?" Kind of like doing a historical drama about the Revolutionary War where the Declaration of Independence doesn't get sent to King George until the British surrender. These are the times that try men's souls.
In Italy, where i come from, we are used to say "legge della maniglia: prima la mamma, poi la figlia" which, poorly translated , means "mother first, doughter next". I really appreciate they decided to apply this line of action for Elrond: it underlines why he is regarded throughout all middle earth as such a master of wisdom 😎
I believe what they said about Durin III is that he is digging and if he continues to do so, he'll wake the beast. By that they can only mean the Balrog, right? Are they bringing the Balrog in now, is that what's happening?
The thing is, the siege of Eregion is like Helm's Deep, but in a "Mom, can we have Helm's Deep?" "No, we have Helm's Deep at home" *Helm's Deep at home* kinda way
Sauron is like the jedi warriors in the Star Wars movies. He kills elves with his hand, taking over their minds and bodies. Or is Sauron also a jedi? 😂
The kiss is truly the most romantic moment seen on screens big and small since Lorraine Baines McFly kissed Marty McFly in the car outside the Enchantment Under the Sea high school dance.
Thank you! That was a blast to make. Me and my friend giggling and reading through the texts to find things that we thought Sauron would put on his resume was the highlight of my day
I'm glad to have found your channel because you try to get the best from the show and still enjoy it. I'm watching it because it's so hilariously bad that it's like a parody. And to be able to follow the critics better of course. Anyway... Sauron forcing his adversaries to kill each other is the oldest trope in the supernatural book. And he also could have used that trick numerous times. Why now?
Imagine a young girl that catches her father goo goo eyes at grandma, and then the father explaining how he used to date and make out with granny before marrying her daughter. If this actually was the background to Arwen it makes sense why she would flee her family to marry Aragorn. This isn’t merely bad writing. This is bad writing that makes me think the writers must have used to write scripts for some weird adult movie genre.
As always I love your review!💚 I read someone say that it should have been Celebrian and not Galadriel who was the main female elf of the show, that would make more sense and fit the narrative these writers are creating.
8:00 in the left out footage of peter jackson's films you can see sauron uses his blood to forge the One, and in the actual film u can see the dagger in sauron's hand. theres a later scene where gandalf said "sauron poured in his own blood"
I disagree. The pacing was weird. The battle scenes seemed to move fast, slow, fast, pause, etc…. Also the number of combatants seemed to grow and shrink randomly. My biggest issues were two things: why is everyone so stupid? No questions…not seeing the obvious….not reacting to things correctly. Second, there is no sense of the elves near immortality. The act as if they are human. Gil-galad is over 3000 years old! Galadriel is older! We assume that they have learned some wisdom in that time…. This was a terrible episode
They keep gaslighting to say this isn't a romantic kiss when that is a betrayal of anything anyone ever knows about cinematography. the editing told you it's romantic as it does't even need to be happening to pass the pin since it happens before and you barely even see the pin being passed. they could have edited this different with like sneaky music or something that's not the main theme.
As I mentioned in an earlier comment, I have given up with this show and decided to re-read The Lord of the Rings. I have made a start, and I was very glad to find this sentence at the end of the prologue: "Only here in the Shire were to be found extensive materials for the history of Númenor and the rise of Sauron." This makes it clear to me that Amazon made up everything in the Rings of Power!
For a while i thought that if Rings of Power had no connection to Lord of the Rings it might be watchable. But this episode proves they can't even tell their own story. What a waste of money and effort.
Very true! Im well aware, but the show has not used the proper name, or at least, if it has, I have not noticed it, so for clarity sake, I have chosen to not use the proper name in reference to the show's version of Ost-in-Edhil
Another complete "f*** you" to people who are even only moderately familiar with Tolkien's work. It seems like deliberately trolling at this point. People who have only seen the movies probably neither know nor care, although one would hope they notice the poor writing, many plot inconsistencies and directing mistakes.
I really appreciate your approach to this series! Not hiding the fact that this show isn't great, but still giving constructive and grown up criticism instead of falling into the *nauseating* culture war / anti-woke BS, like so many "review" channels do. And because you also give credit where it's true, you're actually believable in both situations. And I get the feeling that you're rooting for it to succeed, instead of hoping it fails. I mean we all win if something is good, so why anyone would hope something is bad is beyond me.
I don't think anyone who was a LotR fan hoped RoP to be a failure, but that doesn't mean that being slavishly optimistic is to anyone's benefit either. LotR isn't great because it's set in Middle Earth. It's great because it's a well crafted story. RoP is just a badly crafted story, regardless of its setting. There's no reason why anyone should be rooting for something to succeed just because a gigantic corporation spent hundreds of millions of dollars to buy the rights to make a series that is constructed in the same setting, especially since the construction is so shoddy on so many different levels. I can understand the appeal of being a contrarian to a stance on a side of a perceived culture war, but you're missing the mark if you think Amazon deserves any credit or support for this project. I think misplaced optimism isn't any better than misplaced pessimism in this case. You make the statement: "I mean we all win if something is good" but if we are to take that thesis as having merit, we also have to accept the inverse can also be the case, that 'we all lose if something is bad'. And with RoP... we all lost.
Costructive criticism is useless because these people already know what they want to make and will not listen to you and me as fans, they actually hate the source material and tolkien fans in general, they wanted to take the story and change it to how they see the world. Making a good show would have been extremely easy, just follow the source material, a way smarter person already wrote everything for them they only had to adapt it like Peter Jackson did. There's no rooting for anything here. Watch the many interviews and see what they actually say and how they brag that they're changing the Tolkien world.
Constructive criticism may be useless in this case, but I don't believe it is pointless. Suggestions can have merit even when they aren't followed. Beyond the fact that I just personally would rather be constructive when speaking to anyone, regardless of who they are, this is not just for the writers of the show. This is for any writers listening. They may find a breakdown of a story that did not sit right with them helpful when approaching their own writing. I know it helps mine.
:D I'm really sorry but this whole outrage about the kiss feels so incredibly American to me. XD Elrond kisses her as a distraction to get the pin to her and now he can't marry Celebrian anymore? Who, might I mention, he is sooo much older than and has sooo much life experience on, the very thing you also criticised about the kiss. Elves operate on a really different level regarding time scale and partners than humans, and we can't use human notions to compare this.
It's pretty obvious, even to non-Americans like me, that this scene is the writers' way of saying 'get fucked, fans, we do our own thing'. Itself a very American gesture, perhaps.
Tolkien establishes in Chapter II of LotR that nothing less than dragon-fire could destroy the Great Rings other than the One (indeed, by the time of LotR Dragons have destroyed some of the Seven -- Sauron has reclaimed the others). The One Ring, of course, can only be destroyed in Mount Doom. Concerning Elrond kissing Galadriel and later marrying her daughter, there is precedent for such a plot twist in the Twilight books and in the Matt Smith era of Doctor Who, although not in Tolkien. Also, Tolkien wrote one narrative (published in "Unfinished Tales") in which Celebrimbor had unrequited romantic feelings for Galadriel, although I think Tolkien had not yet determined how Celebrimbor was related to the other characters when he wrote that. (In human genealogical terms, Celebrimbor is Galadriel's half-first cousin once removed; he is, of course, a generation younger than she is, whereas Elrond is three generations younger than Galadriel.)
As bad as this entire show is: the actual Capriole from the Elven horse was REMARKABLE. This is real Alta Escuela right there. And I mean this 100 % seriously. At least we now know where all the money went: they hired the Royal Riding School of Vienna. The thing with Elrond and Galadriel though...two good Elves had to be erased to make this...possible? Plausible? Anyways, it is even more fan fictiony at this point.
Regarding the infamous kiss scene, I didn't think it was supposed to mean anything, it was just to distract from their hands passing the tool. In fact when it happened I thought he was doing it to pass a picking tool from mouth to mouth, but it still works as a distraction like they did it.
Passing the pin Mouth to mouth would have been the smart thing to do- these writers aren’t smart, in fact , as we say in England, they’re as thick as pigshit
I think you've overreacted to the "kiss". She looks very surprised by it - because it was just a ruse to be able to pass the item for unpicking the lock. There's no romance...
I was eagerly awaiting your reaction to this .. thing. I don’t have the harshest opinion of the show but this has to be one episode where the character’s motivations and reasonings REALLY don’t make sense. The moral compass really is skewed in this show and I’m not sure how they can change its course. Oh well. Here’s to a full episode of Harfoots, Isildur, and Numenor this Thursday.
"This" Galadriel is a strong independent girl boss. Having a child would ruin her life, and worse, her career! So of course she can't be anyone's mother in law.
One thing that irks me so much, and no RUclipsr has commented on this yet. Sauron's robe switches from left fold to right fold continuously from scene to scene, for some bizarre but probably inept continuity reason.
I think everyone is over-analyzing the kiss thing (though, don't get me wrong - I DO have a problem with it, too, but I don't think it means as much as everyone is thinking it might/does.) I'm 99.999% sure that Elrond's only motive in doing that, is to cover handing her the brooch, to justify getting THAT close to her - because the orcs & Adar don't know what their relationship is, they'll buy it. I think that's the writers' reasoning there. HOWEVER, I still take issue with it, even though I think they intentionally made it obvious that's why he did it (& not because he actually has feelings for her, I don't think he does, I really don't) -- they didn't HAVE to do it that way, they could have had him just hug her, which would have provided much better cover AND it wouldn't have been disturbing. But, that's the thing - I think they chose a romantic-looking kiss, intentionally, as the cover for handing her the brooch - because it would be controversial, it would piss off people like us (actual fans lol) & would be juicy gossip for the shills & normies that are watching. It's a win-win for them. They KNEW it would make Tolkien fans mad, because they know that's his mother-in-law, or at least future mother-in-law, so, even though I don't think they were meaning to imply they have any kind of feelings for each other, they still could have done the scene differently, but didn't, because the buzz about the show benefits them.
HARD disagree on Sauron controlling the Elves being a good thing in any way. Because Sauron isn't supposed to control Elves like that. If he can ensnare them with visions and control their very movement, what the hell does he need the rings for? In Tolkien's story, the whole point of letting the Elves create the rings was that he could find a way to control them, because he couldn't do it any other way, like he and Morgoth did it with Men and Orcs. So the whole point of the rings was to finally be able to do that. This idea is tossed out of the window by this show, and Elves are just as corruptible and easy to control as everyone else. I hate it, and it shouldn't have happened like this. It just takes away even more from the Elves and makes them little different to humans - they just have pointy ears and live longer, and that's about it.
Next episode is the fall of Kazad Dum... so durin 4th will have an excuse for not coming to aid Elrond. Next is set up for the elves and dwarves all beaten up funding Rivindel and the lonly mountail. Get ready for another text change from kazad dum to Moria...
The scene of “The Return of The King, where Elrond and Galadriel talk about Aragorn… now it looks. Erg different… “Remember when we hooked up a few centuries ago…?” :D
Do none of the mighty kingdoms of Men, Elves and Dwarves have an actual standing army? Thinking back to the text I am not sure that there is an answer but when needed these civilizations were able to deploy sizeable and powerful forces. That is not the case in this universe, obviously.
That elf archer woman getting pincushioned with half a dozen arrows in 2 seconds is so needlessly over the top. They could have played the exact same sequence of her making a final shot after being hit, but if it had just one arrow it would not have been so goofy.
It is strange choice that 99% Elrond's forces are killed off screen without any explanation. As there are hundreds of elves charging orcs in first scene and then we see less than 40 of those elves in actual fight
For the kiss scene, I was thinking it was meant to distract Adar and allow Elrond to get close enough to hand over the lockpick. Now was this the writer's actual intentions of the scene or was it truly a stupid love scene that they wanted to add.
Just plain boring things logically did not make sense lets dam up a river but there was still another the dam would not have worked. Would have taken weeks for the river bed to be dry enought to walk on as at moment it should just be a muddy hell plus river bed way lower than the castle. So the elven legendary archers should have bee shooting at them. How were the 9 made when the smithy has been destroyed.
I feel as if they are speed running all of these events while managing, most of the time, to skip over most of the "meat" of the story. It's a pretty impressive task to rush thru these epic events while making a show that is really boring most of the time.
@@AlaniTheScriptMage Haha simply walking into Mordor as the whimsy takes him. Btw on the video I wanted to say I agree that this was one of the better, more focused episodes. As far as the siege itself goes I did feel frustrated at, and this has been mentioned elsewhere I know, the lack of wide shots/set-up dialogue portraying the overall geography, army deployments and strategic objectives. I didn't know how many elves were facing off against how many orcs nor did I have a feel for which way the balance of force was tilting at most given moments.
Funniest reaction so far loved this one, i didnt like the war in this episode. I guess its an improvement from season one but as someone that draws storyboards and likes movies the editing and the planes were atrocious, almost as bad as can be
At this point in time you still ask for logic and respect to the lore? This show uses names of peoples an places and the does whatever oozes out of the "minds" of its creators.
Also - I also really like the scene where he mind-controls the guards into killing each other - BUT, I have a concern about it, & I'm curious what other people think about it. If he has the power to do things THAT extreme, why doesn't he do that every time people get in his way at all? It seems like in the future, when he has to use his cleverness & manipulation, we're all going to be wondering why he doesn't just directly mind-control the people into doing what he wants. Maybe I'm over-thinking it.
I think the reasoning is that Sauron can easily mind control “lesser” folk (such as soldiers/guards), but his goal overall is to enslave and dominate EVERYONE, so therefore he is aiming to take control of the *leaders* of each race, and for that he needs more longterm methods (rings of power & gaslighting and deception).
@@Bassic Okay, I could maybe buy that. And maybe he has more sway generally in Eregion at this point, since he's been there awhile, a lot of them trust him, etc. and maybe that has something to do with it, too. But, I would think with elves that even the guards would be pretty intelligent & harder to control - but maybe the factor of him having gained trust & established himself there (like Adar said Eregion was shrouded in darkness from him being set up there for a while, something like that, maybe a spiritual dark-cloud is over the whole place, making it easier to influence anyone there.)
How they have explained it so far is that you have to be taken in by his lies *first* before he can slip in your head, which would explain why he needs to be clever and manipulative to get to that point and can't actually do it to everyone. At least that appears to be how it functions.
@@B1811-g1e No, they first met when Aragorn was 20 years old. They hadn't met previously because Arwen was on a long visit to Galadriel and Celeborn (her grandparents) in Lothlorien -- and, given Elven lifespans, such a visit can last for decades. (Aragorn and Arwen themselves are first cousins, but many hundreds of times removed, again due to the difference in lifespan.)
No matter how you think of the show, there must be a “best episode” in it (or a small group of best episodes). Which one do you suggest should get the title?
Made no sense to kiss her. He also caressed her face beforehand. Why? He could've kissed her on the forehead. Or a hug. Why a lip kiss? And he slipped her the item after the kiss, not during. So what's the point?
the scene could have been written in so many different ways. it's obvious the hack showrunners wanted to create controversy because they know the show is dying.
Read the first ten chapters of Bonesong for free! www.amazon.com/kindle-vella/story/B0DC3J555G
Wait for Adar ( that now has Nenya ) to be purified by the ring and become Celeborn.
Honestly if they do that...Idk what kind of explosive reaction I’m going to have.
Christ. Thats actually goimg to happen isn't it? 😂😂
Hahah I called that too
Can't happen. Galadriel already name dropped Celeborn in Season 1.
@@BrianD0313 yeah but she said he was missing.. so Adar is not out of the reach for the writers to make him Celeborn due to him being forced to take a new name to fool Sauron or some dumb shit like that when he was captured.
Come now; who wouldn't want to watch a one billion dollar fan fiction where Elrond can honestly tell his wife: "No no, that's not how your mother does it." No one wanted to see the legendary skills of Gil Galad, where the orcs new the name of his spear due to how many orcs it had killed. That would be boring I'm sure.
Ive read many comments saying the kiss was an obvious distraction. I think most people agree with that. The problem for some, including me, is the "method" of the distraction. As an alternative, with the distraction being as obvious as it was, I think a hug or kiss on the forehead would have been just as effective without spurring on needless controversy. One more thing. The swelling music and close up of the kiss made the scene even more distasteful. Just my opinion. Season 2 is much better but they keep finding ways to disappoint me with bad choices. The perversion ( by Tom Bombadil ) of Gandalfs lesson of pity and mercy to Frodo is another very distasteful choice. A choice which bothers me much more than this kiss issue. Because I love Tolkiens Middle-earth so very much, some of this shows recent choices has saddened me and definitely decreases my enjoyment of the series.
yeah it was the music that made the kiss 10000 times worse imo
A distraction with the hand swap in full view of one of the orcs. Because orcs are going to care about kissing right
"Decreases my enjoyment"
Stuff like this is why it's offensive to think anyone, let alone a Tolkien fan, would find anything to enjoy in this travesty.
" I think most people agree with that."
I think most people feel that the "distraction" story is designed to deflect from the truth, that this was a naked attempt to get viewers via schlock and rage bait.
Show writing worthy of a trashy soap opera.
Sauron is not gonna like Elrond made out with his girl. Can't wait for the Bella-Edward-Jacob love triangle.
Add Adar/Celeborn into the mix
everyone is in love with Guyadriel.... can't wait she romance that f4t dwarf-woman 😀
Gimli: When'll it be my turn?
So Galadriel and Elronds mission was to warn Eregion and Celebrimbor about Sauron. Then Galadriel gets captured. Elrond proceeds to ride back to Lindon and then to Khazad Dum, then back to the Lindon army and then to Eregion. He had to pass by Eregion to get to Khazad Dum and he just didn’t feel like stopping there to tell them about Sauron.
It feels like as soon as they stopped showing the scene transitions with the map, everybody just forgot what the map looks like
I think he came to Eregion with the army, they set up camp in the outskirts and then he road ahead with a small group to visit Kazadum and ask the dwarves for aid, then returned to the army. I don't see why we assume he rode all the way back to Lindon after going to Kazadum. Now, they could have clarified this, showing them setting up camp in preparation to come to Eregion's defense and then he mentions his secret plan, which then shows him in Kazadum.
@@jrconway3 Or, if we work on the basis that nothing at all in this show makes sense, everything falls into place!
Re: Sauron needing Celebrimbor to make the Nine...
In the series, it seems that Celebrimbor is the one who teaches Sauron how to make the Rings. I think Sauron says as much in this episode.
In the Books, it is Sauron who teaches the elves how to make the Rings, and the elves then make the rings for themselves. The whole idea is that he is getting the elves to make their own 'shackles', and Sauron then makes the One to control all the other Rings, while Celebrimbor makes the Three while Sauron is not there. Elves realize this and take off their rings, leading to Sauron's plan B: try to enslave the dwarves and the humans instead, using those 15 (edit: 16, duh) elven rings that he helped to create.
The books make way more sense. The series is unbelievably retarded.
Here’s a big one: how is sauron going to make the one if he wasn’t even able to make one of the 9?
Not to mention that in the books, Celebrimbor doesn't trust Annatar like that. Which is why he forges the 3 rings in secret. He's not an idiot, or weak like they make him look on this show. He's also not some old man with a souped up coiffe. Smh they need to fire the casting director
Almost. The elven smiths were already making rings before Annatar/Sauron turned up. They were the "lesser rings". He gave them lore which helped them to make more powerful rings. He himself only ever made one ring, and it was a very crude affair, relying on the huge power from Orodruin combined with his own essence in order to accomplish his purpose. The 16 rings (not 15) which he gave to dwarves and men were just the ones he captured when he conquered Eregion. There may have been others besides the three that the elves were able to get out of Eregion.
@@blaxpoitation8528 True. Angus McBride did a great illustration of Celebrimbor for the Middle Earth Roleplaying system, which captures his eternal youth, skill and beauty.
So I went back and checked after somewhat recovering from the kiss, and there is a setup scene of the brooch being taken off, but NOT of Elrond passing it to her during the kiss. Not even a one second cut to his hand. Did I miss it multiple times? Either the scriptwriters failed their intro scriptwriting classes in college, OR they WANTED to ship E and C. I was so confused when I later realized a lock pick had been passed that I seriously gave credence to the idea that they wanted to imply Elrond “mouth passed” it to her. That would have been bad ass, but somehow even more yucky. Anyway, still not sure they were not implying this, but thank god they didn’t do a gratuitous tongue cam shot showing it. They at least got their Anton Chekhov 101 right - when you introduce a humongous troll in in act 1 for no apparent reason you MUST use it in act 3. 😂
On the continuing saga of ring order nonsense I’m anticipating the process of getting the nine out of Galadriel’s possession, and presumably back into Sauron’s is going to be yet another time wasting consequence of their ass backwards approach to redoing everything for no apparent reason. With so little character development, and so many glaring plot holes they needed to fill it is just a crime they were so inefficient with things like this. The whole Adar and Sauron relationship saga better have an absolutely tremendous payoff in the next episode when the cat finally come all the way out of the bad and we finally see why a guy that can make a bunch of people kill each other with his mind has played this long game with Adar since season 1. If not it’s going to be a mystery box that actually contains no mystery, and people just LOVE those. 🙄
There is no cut to the hands needed, you can see Elrond handing Galadriel the pin while they are kissing. Just look at their hands, not their heads.
you can see him hand it to her with his right hand and she takes it with her left. all of the orcs are looking right at them when this happens, which makes the scene even more stupid.
Ok, that explains it. I guess was in shock all four times. Maybe I’ve got a little too much Orc in my ancestry.
It also took me a long time to recover from this. But yes, they kiss, and after they kiss there is a wide shot and you can see Elrond slip the brooch into Galadriels hand. That's why I absolutely will not accept the excuse that it was only meant as a distraction.
I wonder how they're going to explain that Elrond marries Galadriel's daughter?
easy... "oh stepdad... i got stuck in that ring of my mum..." ^^
or after this battle Elrond gets demoted to a plumber... and she can't do her own plumbing when her pipe is dirty...
i mean... plotwise we are at that level anyways...
Or Gladriel runs away with Chad Sauron but their daughter resembles the mother so Elrond imprints on the daughter.... oh wait.
In Tolkien all rings were initially intended for elves, so they should look and feel made by elves. Here in RoP there is no reason for Celebrimbor having to make any other rings than the three.
Have you noticed that Rings of Power shies away from canon couples? Galadriel and Celeborn are not a thing. Same with Elrond meeting Celebrian. None of the other characters outside of Durin IV has a wife.
Everyone is single in Middle-Earth. It’s VERY strange.
Because the writers have inflated egos they didn't read the books and just thought "I cAn dO bEtTeR".
Rings of Power does shy away from many things including good writing and good acting. It's amazing how a show can consistently get worse as time goes on
It's kids playing with dolls.
I really realized how much the jumping between unrelated scenes made the show less enjoyable when I watched this episode. Just sticking with scenes related to a certain area of the story and the physical world made it feel like it was made by different people.
The first 15-20 minutes, basically Celebrimbor and Annatar just interacting without overly frequent cuts, was lovely, him slowly realizing he's in an illusion just felt nice, still very "Movie" like, but I could enjoy it.
I still think 50% of the show should've been about the relationship of Annatar and Celebrimbor, us getting to explore their relationship, properly.
The entire show also suffers from the wrong ring-order you brought up in a video, this episode ending with the 9 rings being "taken away" doesn't really work. Wheras, if the 3 elven rings were being taken away it would be far more powerful since we know Sauron is going to get the 9 back.
The show would've been so much better if we focused on Celebrimbor improving as a smith, finally able to make his own rings of power. He just feels so meek in the show compared to the Fëanor-grandson chad he ought to be.
PS. The only ones who are allowed to platonically kiss each other on the mouth is Túrin and Beleg.
And then celebrimbor dropped his hammer and while he bent to pick it up Annatar peeked at that juicy behind, unable to control himself Annatar approached from behind....... yea no thanks I don't want to explore the relationship anymore 😂, this is what they wouldve made it into since everything needs to be turned into a teen romance, these women have no idea what they are doing.
27:13 Yeah, a better way to show this I think would've been having Mirdania still around, you could've had a point of her venerating Galadriel, and that being enough to break her from Annatar's hold would've been a nice moment and feel consequential. The no-name soldiers who just meaninglessly do whatever the writers want them to doesn't ring true.
Also on Celebrimbor's motivation to work with Sauron - they've made a point of having Celebrimbor want to match Feanor, but as viewers are basically never given reason to know WHY that's a motivation. The prologue to the show neglected to mention him or the silmarils at all, and while a lot of First Age stuff is obviously unable to be covered, Tolkien writes all the necessary background right there in appendix A. They've smattered in references here and there in dialogue since, but nothing to impress upon you how consequential and ultimately ruinous they were, and that therefore Celebrimbor wanting to match them would be an obvious temptation but also dangerous and hubristic! Ultimately the show should've had far more focus on elves in these initial seasons, what we have instead is an underwhelming jack of all trades. Their aim to make Middle-earth have breadth has instead made it feel shallow (or like butter scraped... you get the idea).
Completely agree. They really assume that you know who Feanor is
True. Despite many claims to the contrary by defenders of the show, it has always been aimed at Tolkien fans. The show runners hoped to get the fans in as a core group of watchers, just as Peter Jackson did with the movies. But Jackson had respect for the law and produced a quality product - neither of which ROP has done. The fans aren't stupid.
The shows writer said that the kiss wasn't romantic and more like an elvish cultural thing.... Kinda like how certain primates bang their family members just to say good morning.... 😔
One good thing about this god awful fan fiction of a show is that it makes me appreciate the great outdoors a lot more. Aren't trees beautiful!
Trees are beautiful! And that message is more in keeping with the themes of Tolkien's work than most of this show.
If it was something that elves do why is this the first time we are seeing it . Perhaps a hug would be more appropriate it would serve the same purpose getting her the broach but not look like something out of a lifetime movie.
The kiss is a red herring more likely -a simple ploy to slip her the broach pin to pick the lock. There are absolutely absurd things going on in this episode to be sure ..despite its better pacing.. the kiss isnt even a blip on the map really. The ways that Sairons powers work is hugely probematic -absolutely destructive to the entire story, for instance. The dude can create time loops. He he can flick his hand and cause ELVES to MURDER each other. Imo its basically an insalvagable endeavor to repair now. All we can hope for is entertaining comedy at the expense of the lore at this point. I really tried to give it a chance to. The billion dollars behind it is unthinkable -even the editing is aweful. Check out the jump cut after Celebrimbor gets blown up and then goes charging up the stairs, for example. You can even see the bounce that the stunt double took on the crash pad. Its like no one is even overseeing continuity or editing issues. Mindblowing.
And why would he have to chop his thumb off to get outbof these chained shackles? Hes in a dang metal forge! Accckk just unreal. Pardon my grammars cant edit from my phone
the kiss is a slap in the face because it's obvous it was shoehorned in just to create controversy. the swelling music and romantic rubs on the cheeks were terrible choices.
While I agree that from a fundamental level of character development and plot construction, there are way worse things in the story than the kiss; from a lore perspective, the E+G kiss is totally out of order and undeserved, plus the show never actually shows Elrond actually covertly slipping anything, which undermines the whole point of having the interaction.
Aragorn would be pretty mad if he knew you could unlock fast travel in Middle Earth.
😂
Between the 2nd and 3rd age warp technology was lost.
One of the most lasting images of this story from the books is the moment (told in flashback in the Council of Elrond, and in the Appendices, and of course in the Silmarillion "Of the Rings of Power") when Sauron forged the ring, put it on his finger, and spoke the terrible words in Black Speech. At that moment, Celebrimbor "from afar heard him speak those words, and so his evil purposes were revealed." This is, almost, completely flattened by the sequence of events here. 'Well, we knew that these Rings were conceived by Morgoth's chief lieutenant, Sauron the Abhorred. Now he's forged a Master Ring too. How frightfully annoying. Better take off the Three Rings, huh?" Kind of like doing a historical drama about the Revolutionary War where the Declaration of Independence doesn't get sent to King George until the British surrender. These are the times that try men's souls.
In Italy, where i come from, we are used to say "legge della maniglia: prima la mamma, poi la figlia" which, poorly translated , means "mother first, doughter next". I really appreciate they decided to apply this line of action for Elrond: it underlines why he is regarded throughout all middle earth as such a master of wisdom 😎
🤢🤮
I believe what they said about Durin III is that he is digging and if he continues to do so, he'll wake the beast. By that they can only mean the Balrog, right?
Are they bringing the Balrog in now, is that what's happening?
Baby Balrog. With cute googly eyes. It can play with Baby Shelob. Think of the merchandising opportunities!
The thing is, the siege of Eregion is like Helm's Deep, but in a "Mom, can we have Helm's Deep?" "No, we have Helm's Deep at home" *Helm's Deep at home* kinda way
Sauron is like the jedi warriors in the Star Wars movies. He kills elves with his hand, taking over their minds and bodies. Or is Sauron also a jedi? 😂
The kiss is truly the most romantic moment seen on screens big and small since Lorraine Baines McFly kissed Marty McFly in the car outside the Enchantment Under the Sea high school dance.
No it was to gain time in order to give broach to to her so she could pick lock and escape
@@josephnott2956 Who broke your heart?
I get the same feeling when Leia kisses Luke.
The movie oldboy comes to mind
@@josephnott2956Wait
Dude you're right
The horse charge looked sooooo copy/paste. It looked bad.
i was also visibly disgusted when elrond kissed his relative
Your animations sent me 😆 that Resume was 😅
Thank you! That was a blast to make. Me and my friend giggling and reading through the texts to find things that we thought Sauron would put on his resume was the highlight of my day
I'm glad to have found your channel because you try to get the best from the show and still enjoy it. I'm watching it because it's so hilariously bad that it's like a parody. And to be able to follow the critics better of course.
Anyway... Sauron forcing his adversaries to kill each other is the oldest trope in the supernatural book. And he also could have used that trick numerous times. Why now?
When the series is over, will you do a video where you AREN'T trying to be kinder?
Imagine a young girl that catches her father goo goo eyes at grandma, and then the father explaining how he used to date and make out with granny before marrying her daughter. If this actually was the background to Arwen it makes sense why she would flee her family to marry Aragorn.
This isn’t merely bad writing. This is bad writing that makes me think the writers must have used to write scripts for some weird adult movie genre.
As always I love your review!💚 I read someone say that it should have been Celebrian and not Galadriel who was the main female elf of the show, that would make more sense and fit the narrative these writers are creating.
Celebrimby is one of the worst characters in this show for me and competition is pretty big lmao
All that time in the forge turned him into a rock magnet every time he stepped outside
That troll was way oversized than it should've been. It was like how big a troll would be to Hobbits.
8:00 in the left out footage of peter jackson's films you can see sauron uses his blood to forge the One, and in the actual film u can see the dagger in sauron's hand. theres a later scene where gandalf said "sauron poured in his own blood"
It was one of the worst episodes!
I disagree. The pacing was weird. The battle scenes seemed to move fast, slow, fast, pause, etc…. Also the number of combatants seemed to grow and shrink randomly. My biggest issues were two things: why is everyone so stupid? No questions…not seeing the obvious….not reacting to things correctly. Second, there is no sense of the elves near immortality. The act as if they are human. Gil-galad is over 3000 years old! Galadriel is older! We assume that they have learned some wisdom in that time….
This was a terrible episode
They keep gaslighting to say this isn't a romantic kiss when that is a betrayal of anything anyone ever knows about cinematography. the editing told you it's romantic as it does't even need to be happening to pass the pin since it happens before and you barely even see the pin being passed. they could have edited this different with like sneaky music or something that's not the main theme.
As I mentioned in an earlier comment, I have given up with this show and decided to re-read The Lord of the Rings. I have made a start, and I was very glad to find this sentence at the end of the prologue: "Only here in the Shire were to be found extensive materials for the history of Númenor and the rise of Sauron." This makes it clear to me that Amazon made up everything in the Rings of Power!
For a while i thought that if Rings of Power had no connection to Lord of the Rings it might be watchable. But this episode proves they can't even tell their own story. What a waste of money and effort.
"When he kissed her, my brain bluescreened"
I'm dying, that's exactly what it felt like
The city is called Ost-in-Edhil, Eregion is the region.
And they moved it from where it should be.
Very true! Im well aware, but the show has not used the proper name, or at least, if it has, I have not noticed it, so for clarity sake, I have chosen to not use the proper name in reference to the show's version of Ost-in-Edhil
@@stevenv2190 for real… Clearly the showrunners should have spent more time playing MCME.
Jeez, what were they smoking when they made THAT writing decision
Another complete "f*** you" to people who are even only moderately familiar with Tolkien's work. It seems like deliberately trolling at this point. People who have only seen the movies probably neither know nor care, although one would hope they notice the poor writing, many plot inconsistencies and directing mistakes.
@@HeeBeeGeeBee392Yes! You don't have to be a Tolkien aficionado to recognise terrible writing and casting
@@matp8493 You'd hope, yet I see comments from people online who actually like this show. There's no accounting for taste, I suppose.
@@HeeBeeGeeBee392 some people think the rise of Skywalker is a good movie, go figure
Well they have derailed so far from the lore since the first season so to me it has always been fan fiction 😁.
Script mage is being way too nice but in this world it is needed. People need to be nice.
I really appreciate your approach to this series! Not hiding the fact that this show isn't great, but still giving constructive and grown up criticism instead of falling into the *nauseating* culture war / anti-woke BS, like so many "review" channels do. And because you also give credit where it's true, you're actually believable in both situations. And I get the feeling that you're rooting for it to succeed, instead of hoping it fails. I mean we all win if something is good, so why anyone would hope something is bad is beyond me.
I don't think anyone who was a LotR fan hoped RoP to be a failure, but that doesn't mean that being slavishly optimistic is to anyone's benefit either. LotR isn't great because it's set in Middle Earth. It's great because it's a well crafted story. RoP is just a badly crafted story, regardless of its setting. There's no reason why anyone should be rooting for something to succeed just because a gigantic corporation spent hundreds of millions of dollars to buy the rights to make a series that is constructed in the same setting, especially since the construction is so shoddy on so many different levels. I can understand the appeal of being a contrarian to a stance on a side of a perceived culture war, but you're missing the mark if you think Amazon deserves any credit or support for this project. I think misplaced optimism isn't any better than misplaced pessimism in this case.
You make the statement: "I mean we all win if something is good"
but if we are to take that thesis as having merit, we also have to accept the inverse can also be the case, that 'we all lose if something is bad'. And with RoP... we all lost.
@@colbunkmustMen of culture we meet again. 😊
Costructive criticism is useless because these people already know what they want to make and will not listen to you and me as fans, they actually hate the source material and tolkien fans in general, they wanted to take the story and change it to how they see the world.
Making a good show would have been extremely easy, just follow the source material, a way smarter person already wrote everything for them they only had to adapt it like Peter Jackson did.
There's no rooting for anything here.
Watch the many interviews and see what they actually say and how they brag that they're changing the Tolkien world.
Constructive criticism may be useless in this case, but I don't believe it is pointless. Suggestions can have merit even when they aren't followed. Beyond the fact that I just personally would rather be constructive when speaking to anyone, regardless of who they are, this is not just for the writers of the show. This is for any writers listening. They may find a breakdown of a story that did not sit right with them helpful when approaching their own writing.
I know it helps mine.
@@AlaniTheScriptMage You have a lot more patience than me that's for sure.
:D I'm really sorry but this whole outrage about the kiss feels so incredibly American to me. XD Elrond kisses her as a distraction to get the pin to her and now he can't marry Celebrian anymore? Who, might I mention, he is sooo much older than and has sooo much life experience on, the very thing you also criticised about the kiss. Elves operate on a really different level regarding time scale and partners than humans, and we can't use human notions to compare this.
It's pretty obvious, even to non-Americans like me, that this scene is the writers' way of saying 'get fucked, fans, we do our own thing'. Itself a very American gesture, perhaps.
Tolkien establishes in Chapter II of LotR that nothing less than dragon-fire could destroy the Great Rings other than the One (indeed, by the time of LotR Dragons have destroyed some of the Seven -- Sauron has reclaimed the others). The One Ring, of course, can only be destroyed in Mount Doom.
Concerning Elrond kissing Galadriel and later marrying her daughter, there is precedent for such a plot twist in the Twilight books and in the Matt Smith era of Doctor Who, although not in Tolkien. Also, Tolkien wrote one narrative (published in "Unfinished Tales") in which Celebrimbor had unrequited romantic feelings for Galadriel, although I think Tolkien had not yet determined how Celebrimbor was related to the other characters when he wrote that. (In human genealogical terms, Celebrimbor is Galadriel's half-first cousin once removed; he is, of course, a generation younger than she is, whereas Elrond is three generations younger than Galadriel.)
Cousin's once removed are fine, only first cousins are forbidden. And he is her half-cousin once removed, which dillutes the kinship further.
In the version where Celebrimbor has a crush on Galadriel he seems to be a smith of Gondolin, not a Fëanorian.
As bad as this entire show is: the actual Capriole from the Elven horse was REMARKABLE. This is real Alta Escuela right there. And I mean this 100 % seriously. At least we now know where all the money went: they hired the Royal Riding School of Vienna.
The thing with Elrond and Galadriel though...two good Elves had to be erased to make this...possible? Plausible? Anyways, it is even more fan fictiony at this point.
Regarding the infamous kiss scene, I didn't think it was supposed to mean anything, it was just to distract from their hands passing the tool. In fact when it happened I thought he was doing it to pass a picking tool from mouth to mouth, but it still works as a distraction like they did it.
Passing the pin Mouth to mouth would have been the smart thing to do- these writers aren’t smart, in fact , as we say in England, they’re as thick as pigshit
no, the showrunners intentionally had it filmed this way to create controversy. they are hacks.
I think you've overreacted to the "kiss". She looks very surprised by it - because it was just a ruse to be able to pass the item for unpicking the lock. There's no romance...
I was eagerly awaiting your reaction to this .. thing. I don’t have the harshest opinion of the show but this has to be one episode where the character’s motivations and reasonings REALLY don’t make sense. The moral compass really is skewed in this show and I’m not sure how they can change its course.
Oh well. Here’s to a full episode of Harfoots, Isildur, and Numenor this Thursday.
"This" Galadriel is a strong independent girl boss. Having a child would ruin her life, and worse, her career! So of course she can't be anyone's mother in law.
One thing that irks me so much, and no RUclipsr has commented on this yet. Sauron's robe switches from left fold to right fold continuously from scene to scene, for some bizarre but probably inept continuity reason.
I think everyone is over-analyzing the kiss thing (though, don't get me wrong - I DO have a problem with it, too, but I don't think it means as much as everyone is thinking it might/does.) I'm 99.999% sure that Elrond's only motive in doing that, is to cover handing her the brooch, to justify getting THAT close to her - because the orcs & Adar don't know what their relationship is, they'll buy it. I think that's the writers' reasoning there. HOWEVER, I still take issue with it, even though I think they intentionally made it obvious that's why he did it (& not because he actually has feelings for her, I don't think he does, I really don't) -- they didn't HAVE to do it that way, they could have had him just hug her, which would have provided much better cover AND it wouldn't have been disturbing. But, that's the thing - I think they chose a romantic-looking kiss, intentionally, as the cover for handing her the brooch - because it would be controversial, it would piss off people like us (actual fans lol) & would be juicy gossip for the shills & normies that are watching. It's a win-win for them. They KNEW it would make Tolkien fans mad, because they know that's his mother-in-law, or at least future mother-in-law, so, even though I don't think they were meaning to imply they have any kind of feelings for each other, they still could have done the scene differently, but didn't, because the buzz about the show benefits them.
HARD disagree on Sauron controlling the Elves being a good thing in any way. Because Sauron isn't supposed to control Elves like that. If he can ensnare them with visions and control their very movement, what the hell does he need the rings for?
In Tolkien's story, the whole point of letting the Elves create the rings was that he could find a way to control them, because he couldn't do it any other way, like he and Morgoth did it with Men and Orcs. So the whole point of the rings was to finally be able to do that. This idea is tossed out of the window by this show, and Elves are just as corruptible and easy to control as everyone else. I hate it, and it shouldn't have happened like this. It just takes away even more from the Elves and makes them little different to humans - they just have pointy ears and live longer, and that's about it.
Next episode is the fall of Kazad Dum... so durin 4th will have an excuse for not coming to aid Elrond. Next is set up for the elves and dwarves all beaten up funding Rivindel and the lonly mountail. Get ready for another text change from kazad dum to Moria...
The scene of “The Return of The King, where Elrond and Galadriel talk about Aragorn… now it looks. Erg different… “Remember when we hooked up a few centuries ago…?” :D
Do none of the mighty kingdoms of Men, Elves and Dwarves have an actual standing army? Thinking back to the text I am not sure that there is an answer but when needed these civilizations were able to deploy sizeable and powerful forces. That is not the case in this universe, obviously.
When he is figuring out time is not moving forward him explaining it reminds me of the Truman Show , bike flowers dented beetle.
That elf archer woman getting pincushioned with half a dozen arrows in 2 seconds is so needlessly over the top. They could have played the exact same sequence of her making a final shot after being hit, but if it had just one arrow it would not have been so goofy.
Btw Arondir gets shown fighting in the promo for episode 8, full healthy, probably gets healed by Nenya, who knows, zero tension at all.
It is strange choice that 99% Elrond's forces are killed off screen without any explanation. As there are hundreds of elves charging orcs in first scene and then we see less than 40 of those elves in actual fight
For the kiss scene, I was thinking it was meant to distract Adar and allow Elrond to get close enough to hand over the lockpick. Now was this the writer's actual intentions of the scene or was it truly a stupid love scene that they wanted to add.
I have to wonder if the writers and showrunners actually talk to each other, there's so much inconsistency between episodes.
Just plain boring things logically did not make sense lets dam up a river but there was still another the dam would not have worked. Would have taken weeks for the river bed to be dry enought to walk on as at moment it should just be a muddy hell plus river bed way lower than the castle. So the elven legendary archers should have bee shooting at them. How were the 9 made when the smithy has been destroyed.
I feel as if they are speed running all of these events while managing, most of the time, to skip over most of the "meat" of the story.
It's a pretty impressive task to rush thru these epic events while making a show that is really boring most of the time.
ScriptMage: Pulls out Silmarillion
RoP writers: You have no power here... we never bought the rights to that...
Sauron needs to include some contact info on his resume
You're absolutely right!
Phone: lost palantir
Address: currently Ost-in-Edhil, but I'm currently in a move to Mordor
@@AlaniTheScriptMage Haha simply walking into Mordor as the whimsy takes him.
Btw on the video I wanted to say I agree that this was one of the better, more focused episodes. As far as the siege itself goes I did feel frustrated at, and this has been mentioned elsewhere I know, the lack of wide shots/set-up dialogue portraying the overall geography, army deployments and strategic objectives. I didn't know how many elves were facing off against how many orcs nor did I have a feel for which way the balance of force was tilting at most given moments.
Funniest reaction so far loved this one, i didnt like the war in this episode. I guess its an improvement from season one but as someone that draws storyboards and likes movies the editing and the planes were atrocious, almost as bad as can be
At this point in time you still ask for logic and respect to the lore? This show uses names of peoples an places and the does whatever oozes out of the "minds" of its creators.
Hiding among the Orks is another stupid reference to the movies (Frodo and Sam)
Looking forward to Amazon’s next show: Bad Bosses: Morgoth Edition.
iam a noob when it comes to tolkien lore ,and nothing made sense 1billion dollar joke ,one thing is clear some one is stealing money
ScriptMage, why do you look so comfortable in your chair?
❤
26:27 Wait, did they use Adar as an extra? (Top right elf)
_"Good use of her character"_ huh ?! Now we know who the enemy among us is.
The blood magic of Sauron is such a stupid reference to got
I agree on my side it's best episode, but then it's kissing and not so good battle
Question: Do Orcs dream Elvish dreams?
why did celebrimbor try to arrest sauron with 6 soldiers?
should we assume that the One ring will be the season finale?
They damed aa island and Elrod kissed his motherin law
As an empath I can feel your pain and depression 🤕
that fuckinng horses jump kick had my DYING lol!!!
That is/was an actual move war horses can do, though. For reals.
I will agree, I was entertained
when did Sauron get the force?
Now tell this is “fine” 😂😂😂
Adar’s sword is bada$$
ScriptMage is 😍
14:32 so painful
Also - I also really like the scene where he mind-controls the guards into killing each other - BUT, I have a concern about it, & I'm curious what other people think about it. If he has the power to do things THAT extreme, why doesn't he do that every time people get in his way at all? It seems like in the future, when he has to use his cleverness & manipulation, we're all going to be wondering why he doesn't just directly mind-control the people into doing what he wants. Maybe I'm over-thinking it.
I think the reasoning is that Sauron can easily mind control “lesser” folk (such as soldiers/guards), but his goal overall is to enslave and dominate EVERYONE, so therefore he is aiming to take control of the *leaders* of each race, and for that he needs more longterm methods (rings of power & gaslighting and deception).
@@Bassic Okay, I could maybe buy that. And maybe he has more sway generally in Eregion at this point, since he's been there awhile, a lot of them trust him, etc. and maybe that has something to do with it, too. But, I would think with elves that even the guards would be pretty intelligent & harder to control - but maybe the factor of him having gained trust & established himself there (like Adar said Eregion was shrouded in darkness from him being set up there for a while, something like that, maybe a spiritual dark-cloud is over the whole place, making it easier to influence anyone there.)
How they have explained it so far is that you have to be taken in by his lies *first* before he can slip in your head, which would explain why he needs to be clever and manipulative to get to that point and can't actually do it to everyone. At least that appears to be how it functions.
Didn't arwen know aragorn as a child? I forgot
@@B1811-g1e No, they first met when Aragorn was 20 years old. They hadn't met previously because Arwen was on a long visit to Galadriel and Celeborn (her grandparents) in Lothlorien -- and, given Elven lifespans, such a visit can last for decades. (Aragorn and Arwen themselves are first cousins, but many hundreds of times removed, again due to the difference in lifespan.)
@@anthonybernacchi2732 ah, thank you
Best episode? You are delusional.....
No matter how you think of the show, there must be a “best episode” in it (or a small group of best episodes). Which one do you suggest should get the title?
@@polytropos1.1 lol
He kissed her to give her the broach so she could pick lock and escape
Hug would be smarter
Your comment is misguided, but mad props for writing 'broach' correctly instead of the silly 'brooch' I keep seeing everywhere
@@whatsthere9538a brooch is a piece of jewellery attached with a pin, so there's nothing wrong with using it.
Made no sense to kiss her. He also caressed her face beforehand. Why? He could've kissed her on the forehead. Or a hug. Why a lip kiss? And he slipped her the item after the kiss, not during. So what's the point?
the scene could have been written in so many different ways. it's obvious the hack showrunners wanted to create controversy because they know the show is dying.
Relative focus of this episode happened exclusively because Game of Thrones did it before in Blackwater and The Watchers on the Wall.