Bulking For Muscle Growth Is Dead (New Study Explained)
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- Опубликовано: 2 июн 2024
- Eric Helms from @Team3DMJ is back to talk about some new data regarding big caloric surpluses and muscle growth!
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0:00 Eric talks surplus research
2:15 Surplus and Muscle Gain
7:11 Permabulk Dream Scenario
12:42 How much is too much
15:30 Body weight and Appearance
19:30 Body Fat Set Point
21:40 Mass to cut ratio
24:14 Added notes
27:50 Mass Research Review 
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The cognitive dissonance I’m experiencing from finding out I was just getting fat for years instead of gaining muscle is mind shattering…. Gah damn you Chris Evans
Isn't this just common knowledge for the avg RP viewer?
I'm not surprised. I've been getting fatter, but my ability to re-lose the weight has completely faded because I'm not as disciplined as I used to be.
There goes my “I’m bulking” excuse for why I’m a fatty…
I never liked Capt America, now even less.
lol
But Dr. Mike my study of drinking high calorie IPAs and eating a whole XL pizza every night while going to bed at 5AM is showing results. Am getting unquestionably BIG.
what a coincidence, I have exactly the same routine.
Pizza at night keeping you big as hell
Studies found a statistically significant amount of happiness
I was also going to comment that there's a benefit of eating an extra 600 calories in that you get to enjoy 600 extra calories.
Stop spying on me.
Eric is the only man in fitness that can follow Dr Mike's weird tangents and then immediately return to the relevant topic. For that alone, I shall listen to him.
Chris Williamson had it down too
Eric, Chris and Menno are the holy trinity of the Dr. Mike religion.
Eric had practice with Omar though
@@parnbanerjee😂
I noticed that. Joe Rogan cleans his act up to when he has classy guests.
It’s crazy. When I got into fitness, I found about Coach Greg, and he would say (years ago) that you don’t need to bulk with a 1000 calorie surplus in order to gain muscle. He specifically said that you realistically only need about 200 calories to “bulk”, and that was through his anecdotal experience. Glad that’s being backed up with studies conducted!
Yeah I came off of a bulk and was making good gains on stuff like strength on flat bench during a cut and I was making pretty good gains in muscle size and strength while at maintenance volume and calories. A-lot of the stuff mike talks about is for more advanced athletes like not making gains on cuts. Beginners intermediates and even early advanced will all more than likely make gains on cuts or at maintenance.
Got some mile stones to hit then I’m doing some mma too >:)
Glad you said this, I noticed this too. The vid is still up I think - something about how much muscle you can expect to gain and how much to eat in surplus.
Can confirm.
Tried to all out bulk after about 5 months of cutting to 17% bodyfat and gained it all back within 4 weeks.
@@SystemsEngin33r So what were you supposed to do?
I'd say 70-90% of Americans are bulking by default, with inadequate weight training and protein intake. People don't need to bulk for muscle. Maintenance calories, training, and protein are all you need.
Takeaways:
1. Big surpluses work better when you're a beginner training with high volumes. When you "age" in the sport, implementing a smaller surplus is the best idea (200-400 kcal/day)
2. If you're going for a bigger surplus, don't expect that to reliably lead to higher muscle gain. at least not in the short term.
3. Really low surpluses are incalculable (50 kcal/day)
4. Adjusting the calorie surplus according to your bodyweight is great idea.
🧠
Head still trying to process how you have posted this 25 mins before the video was posted.
@@Marly88 bros from the future
Either playing the video at a higher speed or could be using a Browser Plugin that automatically copies and paste the subtitles into ChatGPT and tell it to summaries the video.
@@Marly88 hes a member so probably saw it early
I am going to bulk until I am just like my hero Kyriakos Grizzly. I need to weigh FULL to glimpse a fraction of the power of a god.
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!
AAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH
m’lord would be proud
For the difficult, until the end.
You do you. Shine on you crazy diamond.
can you make a video wearing a wig?
Please
Lmao. Yes
This comment needs more likes 😂
Vhen vill you vear vigs?
YES
Omg, Greg Doucette is gonna have a home run with this, brace yourself for the "I told you so !" video following up lol
wasn't this common knowledge though?
hell I remember years ago watching a vid by Athlean-X talking about how calories don't build muscle. this was like 5 years ago or something
just google "athlean-x bulk cut" or something.
and it will be well deserved!
Plenty of people discovered this already many years ago. I built muscle and lost fat at the same time myself. It's possible. Athlean-x has a video talking about it that he posted 6 years ago (my other comment got deleted when I posted the link here)
@@aca347
Assuming you’re at 15% bf or more as a man I don’t see why not.
-
The problem is when people are around 10-12% bf and don’t have enough calories.
Building muscle is difficult without a surplus or stored body fat.
Either is good.
No greg tells you to eat at maintenance, they’re saying to do a lean bulk here. Very different
2028- working out for muscle growth is dead
2032- you dont need muscles for muscle growth
"Gaining muscle produces excess carbon emissions. If you exercise, you're a climate denier, anti science, and alt-right." - journalist in 2028
@@johnnybravo8664
All SARMS by then
Basically
@@EliasOwnage95ecty steroids
Man I just sat down with two big ass bowls of ground beef mac and cheese with peas and shit, and you release this telling me bulking is dead? Lmao
Dying😂😂
I knew this for a long time though. Once the noob gains stop, bulking is only a resource of maximization for enhanced lifters, if you're natural you're probably better off maingaining. The chanel Natural Hypertrophy also has been supporting this view and discussing it since 2018.
After finishing my bowls of food and downing a triple serving protein shake, I have also finished the video. It's not so bad. Just don't go overboard and get floppy.
Enjoy that final meal lol
@@thrillcutz2162 Mike says NOT to do this, he still encourages distinct periods of mass gain and mass loss.
Here's what I learned from this video:
1 - Dr. Mike sits in a basement and touches himself
2. - I was too distracted to listen after hearing that.
....in all seriousness, another great video backed by real science. This is why this the BEST channel for REAL fitness advice
Why do you think his hands are below the camera POV? He’s massaging his adductors.
I sit in a basement and touch myself to Dr Mike
Yj😂😂5hk5t5tkh5k😂😂hh4😂4jkk5h😂fn😂gmpk5
K😊😊
@Rykkmy j5an-by8ui
So "lean bulk" was the right move all along, at least according to this study? That's great, because I don't want to feel like I'm going to explode at the end of the day when I'm trying to gain muscle.
Also, I'm liking the sound of the selection process for test subjects. Too many of these sorts of tests are run on beginners, which is going to be less useful for the sort of folks who would be watching this channel.
I do not disagree. I am a beginner though
Anecdotally, I have just barely started my lifting/working out journey about 5 weeks ago, I have gained ~5 pounds of muscle and lost 2.5% body fat.
I am not doing rest days, but I am also not going super hard, just checking which muscle group isn't sore for the day and training that, focusing on my upper body.
From a dietetic standpoint, I cut out almost all of my extra carbs(cookies and milk each night, candy between meals, 44oz of soda each day), snacks, and added protein shakes and focusing on 5-10% protein meals(at least 5% of calories in grams of protein).
I think 60% of my noob gains are just from increasing my protein intake to at least 0.7 grams per pound body weight.
I am happy doing my lean bulk, because my goal is to actually be more of a sleeper build, rock climber type, so if I gain a ton of muscle mass whilst dropping from 19% to 16.5% body fat it's all good
I'm a beginner and have often found most of the advice on this channel is not geared towards me which makes it difficult to know what to do exactly. But I take from it what I can and just lift weights and eat right.
So many people here are beginners lol…
@@youjyingamazing things happen in the early days. We've all experienced fast muscle growth and strength increase at the beginning, no matter what the approach.
It's legitimately mind-boggling to me, that we can watch this stuff for free. Thanks Mike and RP, I love you so much
Right? When i started training (1991) not only did this information not even exist, but you had to pay good money for books that instructed you to bulk like crazy, as long as it was relatively clean.
I wish this mentality could change in the fitness community that everything worthwhile costs money. There's many more videos about training on this platform with much more detail than this video, all for free.
It’s not free, nothing is free. The cost is your attention for advertisers. Let’s not gaslight ourselves into thinking digital content is delivered to us as a charity.
@MegaLadysman1234 if I'm not paying for it and I have FREE time it's free for me. Yes somethings are free
@@MegaLadysman1234that’s true. I mean you and OP are both right. In a sense it’s not free because our attention is currency and the producers of content do it to also make money not just as a passion. However the end result is still “free” for the end user. A win win scenario all around.
nobody knew who I was until I put on the weight
Let the kids be small and permanently weak. I've been following Mark Ripetoe Starting Strenght program and gained 8Kg bodyweight in 2 months. Put on +80Kg on my squat, finally benching 100Kg+ for 3x5, deadlift going up too, everything perfect. I'm already outlifting people who have been working out for years in my gym. I wonder how they feel when they see the new guy who was struggling now destroying the weights they're using lmfao. Most of them are the same weight they used to be or are trying to lose bodyfat when they're already skeletons. So sad to see. I'm feeling bigger, stronger and more confident everyday. My triceps are also getting bigger even though i don't even do tricep isolation work anymore.
@@WeightedCali You're not outlifting shit bud, you're just fat.
@WeightedCali Just do it for you, man, don't worry about ego fantasies of other people feeling inferior to you.
Bane’s performance was the first time I’d heard of Tom Hardy (yes I am Gen Z) so you’re not exactly wrong.
Oh, you think the bulk is your ally. But you merely adopted the bulk; I was born in it, moulded by it. I didn't see the cut until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but STARVING!
Im at one of the lowest points of my life. Ive never felt so defeated. I didnt go into this video expecting anything other than some random bs about trying harder. But man i really needed to hear this. I believe in myself a little more now because i know that im capable of great things so now i just have to push forward to make it work.
You got this dog. Whatever it is you got this. Keep fighting the good fight. Every day is a new day!
Easy money
G
We get really good at getting back yup. That's what counts. Behind you bro.
Let's go!
Great info, just finished my 24 week bulk of 500 cal surplus and I can see where 200-300 would have yielded the same gains with less fat
I'm with you! Fortunately I was only doing +250. Need to get the pounds off now.
@@sherryschied8659 learning curve... constant learning curve 😁😁😁
The consistency and quality on this channel is crazy
Yesssiiirrrrr
Yeah they passed 1M subscribers long before I even realized it.
@@davidalexsandermoreno5532 who gives a shit
Is this sarcasm? Idk much abt the channel
Currently losing weight and getting stronger every month, this is good validation that I'm not 'killing my gains' by saving my heart
The heart is the most important muscle, my friend!
This is the only bodybuilding/fitness channel that I watch regularly. Great information presented clearly, without off-putting flashy edits and Dr. Mike could absolutely do well as a standup comedian if he gets bored of this!
You know Dr. Mike... Dr. Mike, MD would almost certainly enjoy having you on his podcast, I'm sure it would be entertaining and educational. The best 2 things that anything can be.
Great idea!
The collab we didn't know we needed but are happy we got is back again
I absolutely love how much mutual self respect I feel between those two, as they both are awesome dudes 😊
Thank you for this conversation, it directly addresses what I've been contemplating lately. Is it possible for you guys to post the sources in the info bars? I'd love to see a link to the study in question, under the video.
Keep up the great work, thanks.
Outstanding segment Sir!!
I constantly stress this to people all the time but they refuse to understand.
Just did a video on this subject recently.
Hahah just finished a bulk and it was a struggle. Excited that I might not have to again. Feeling the love handle struggle rn
Felling the belly fold when sitting is not worth the 5% strength gain. On a cut rn and i hate myself for taking the bulk too far
@@Kjetil523That's because you stopped too early. If your belly grows big enough it will stop folding!
@@Kjetil523 belly folding just tells me im growing and stretching the muscles. thats layers of abs stretching my stomach . and im bigger and harder than you will ever be. WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THAT KJETIL
I'm on the same boat, bruhda. Boxer elastic flips out when sitting lol. @Kjetil523
Videos hitting at the right time again.
Just finished a 6 month cut (almost 2 months of maintenance, and a little over 4 months spent cutting).
Next gonna hop on a round' 300cal bulk for the summer. Feeling good at 10% bf
Incredible video, thank you both for this!
I feel like bulking videos have become obsolete and i have yet to find recent research on youtube until this video. Thanks for the upload !
To be fair, Chris Evans isn’t just known for Captain America. He was in Scott Pilgrim vs the world, Not another teen movie, and Knives out
And Johnny Flame in the first fantastic 4
Snowpiercer movie too. Did a great job in that
He did funny skits too
Scary Movie, too.
The two heads of the two resources that got my lifestyle/training in order 10 years ago, to prepare me for my 1st show!! 🙌🏿 let’s go
Good luck man 👊🏻💪🏻
Loved the discussion get Eric Helms back sometime!
Get Ed Helms too, while you're at it!
This was a good, nuanced conversation. This stuff is complex and it's nice to see a broader view on things 👌
Dr. Varshavski v Dr. Isratel is the crossover I've been waiting for, but it's like they don't even know about the existence of the other. Finally Dr Mike mentioned the other slightly less atravtive Dr Mike. We need that collab. Make. It. Happen.
I no longer believe in eating at maintenence to be a calculatable thing, since I have so many ticks, insane ADD issues where if im working I may run up and down those stairs 10 or 40 times, depending on how much I forget, the fidgeting and the uncontrollable issues sleeping... I mean the list goes on I dont want this to be a rant about me, the point is: goooooood luck, calculating what your calorie maintanence is for a lot of us out there, it cannot be done. Be in surplus when you're lifting, listen to your body carefully when you're not. I know most people sell decent apps based around that not being a thing, but it totally is a thing tho and it's exasperated beyond calculation for some of us.
We can still get a general idea though, enough to set a broad caloric goal that will most likely average out to maintenance. And of course, as you said listen to your body.
It’s so much bullshit when you realize the factors. Sleep, effort, stress, hormones, environment etc. To talk about 100-200 kcal extra is just fantasy bullshit unless you live in a controlled lab and track every single factor. So you might as well aim for maintenance and use a mirror and your gut feeling.
Totally! Maintenance calories cannot be calculated except in laboratory conditions. There's just way too many factors involved.
Is there any way we can get the references for the studies specifically named in the video, like in the description? I realize it's obviously not feasible to drop the references for all the studies and metanalyses you use for your evidence based approach, but if a study is specifically mentioned, I'd love a reference somewhere so I can have a look as well.
do you even know what a metaanalysis is? its sugarEZ (as ez as sugarcube) to link it
Awesome interview. Thank you dr. Mike for making such a great content. There is no other channel like rp.
Thank you both for this extremely informative interview.
I don’t know if it’s youtube’s fault or yours, but if you have any say in it, please make it so that us with YT Premium can listen to your membersvideos with the phone locked!
We can do so with regular videos, but not membersvideos for some reason..
Yeah and we can't download the videos either. Think of us poor travelers stuck in coach with no leg room and bad movies.
It's RUclips premium b***it, it's doing this for every member-only video on any channel.
Use revanced
I realize this should be default on youtube, but you can use Brave Browser to listen it with the phone locked.
Someone posted a hack for Android users. I didn't try it at the time...now I can't find it. 🙃
Hasn't this been a lore for a while now, I swear Layne talked about how anything over small surplus doesn't offer any benefit like 10 years ago
I think these two think that everything is lore until there is enough data to back up what the lore states.
@@Joe-sm7mf I mean, that's called science.
Doesn't mean that he or the studies are true.
Mike needs to create 30 more minutes of content several times a week, so you get what you see here.
@@dosboot1 I guess when you run out of discoveries, you recycle the discoveries that were made a decade ago lol. It's old enough that people will think it's a new discovery.
Always good to learn from the two of you
Love this type of content. Great stuff and informative
Dr Mike, can you please stop going off on tangents - Eric was about to throw down some important info on the negatives of long term cal restrictions when you came along with your 2 cents from the peanut gallery.
I’m literally the guy in the thumbnail lol “time to stop cultivating mass and start harvesting.” lol… ::weeps openly::
No more garbage bags of chimichangas for you.
Are you wheat of chaff? Were all chaff here baby!
-rob
Dr. Mike, I'm sure that many of us would love to see you collaborate with Dr. Mike Varschavski. Please, make it happen.
Love your channel, keep the good work.
These videos with Eric are awesome! Such a nice and knowledgeable guy! Keep em coming!
When Captain America speaks.. I listen.
Great convo between two jacked docs.
Even if it is the new one with the weird shaped head?
hard to believe how little we know about muscle growth even after decades of research and countless research
Sick video. Thanks!
Great conversation guys!
Thanks! 💪👍
Sounds like recomp as back on the menu, boys!
Thanks guys, fantastic video 😊😊
This was crazy informative, thanks guys!
Hi Mike. Would love if you could link the articles you guys talk about. Am a medical student so I do like laying my own eyes on the paper sometimes!
did you find it?
Dr Mike is always advocating for bulking by saying "you can't gaintain your way from 150lbs to 180lbs" which is true, in order to build 30lbs more muscle you need enough excess energy to build 30lbs of muscle, which if you're 150lbs lean, you don't have that excess energy available on your body as fat. BUT if you've been training for 5-10 years and you're looking to build 2-5lbs of muscle in a year, do you have enough excess fat on your body to convert to energy equivalent to 2lbs of muscle? almost certainly. That's the way I conceptualize this.
Makes a lot of sense what you’re saying here. I’ve thought the same
Bulking is how you guarantee that the construction is actually happening. There's a lot of variance in how many calories are actually absorbed. People also tend to eat less than they think they are on a bulk and eat more than they think they are when cutting/dieting. Bulking is to make sure you're not BSing yourself.
@@cat-le1hf your bodyfat is enough energy
So I have a question then. I found out last week Im at about 6-8% BF at 85kg (did a full Inbody scan at fitness event, result was 6.1% but I don't trust it fully).
Since next to lifting Im training for my 2nd marathon, I would want to go down to 80-82kg. Could I lose that weight all from fat you think?
@@dylanerwichNo fat but retained water in the muscles yes.
Personally know someone who lost 15kg in the off season bashing cardio, lost about half his muscle mass by look, but kept 100% of his strength.
That's how you end up with people like Anatoly who squat weights guys twice his size are struggling with
Pure gold, thanks a lot!
Thank you for the great information as always . 🙏
So Greg Doucette was right? Hows that for a plot twist 🤣
He had a 200 cal surplus recommendation?
Parrot from Aladin: Now see, I'm right 98.9% of the time. Now buy my freaking cook Book!
@@XAUCADTraderyep, maingaining principle is based on keeping your body fat at around 15%. So you are still eating at a small surplus to enable muscle building but keeping your BF the same
Not really, this just means that your bulking should be catered to your training experience.
At the end of the day it shows we're just trying to cope with the fact that the gains simply won't be the same as an intermediate or advanced. They WILL be slower no matter what you do.
People take it at face value and don't understand that "maintaining" isn't for the beginner lifter who's most likely 120 lbs skinny
I remember Eric from when I just started bodybuilding a decade ago, back then misinformation was everywhere and anytime I watched his videos it always gave me a guiding light when I felt lost among all the bullshit, glad to see he is still the man 👨 🙏
21.00 mark - that pause was absolute comedic gold.
Thanks for sharing
20 years later: Everything we are doing now is wrong too.
What amazes me is was all information passed on just anecdotal? These things seem like they could’ve been researched either statistically or scientifically waaaay before hand. It’s not that advanced.
Greg Duccette deserves an apology Mike… “he’s not a doctor”… but he was right, and you were always quick to speak down on him, so now you should be quick to give him his credit that he rightfully deserves
What's about that brother?
I get it, but Greg says basic stuff that is already said
Everyone's critics of him have always been about the motivation behind his information and the inciting nature of his content
Not many have disagreed on his stance on diet for body building or general training for body building
But he takes a ge real stance so he both can be critiqued and be agreed with
Don't get sucked in by over generalised info that he provides
Most things don't need to be made complicated, I get that also, but when you are the one providing information like Greg does you need to be more specific especially when we have channels like RP, Jeff nippard and so on
Your advice has helped me get back to the old me, I'm not there yet but thanks bro in advance.
What an awesome video... loved the information.
Greg recording his victory lap at this very moment. Maingain!
Literally started a bulk a month ago because MIKE ISREATEL told me to...which is it? WTF....
I love seeing bodybuilding channels moving toward doing studies. This is a phenomenal use of your influence
thank u guys for the information!! mike and captain chris dred
I used to be fat and have been cutting for a few years now. I'm looking forward to my first bulk (it should be later this year) and this is so nice for making sure I do it smart.
the first day you bulk DO NOT eat any “cheat foods” wait until you’re used to eating enough before you do that. trust me.
*second
If you've been cutting for literal years and this is gonna be your first bulk in that time, personally I'd recommend you make it fun, not smart, least for the first few weeks. Sure it's not "optimal" on paper, but having fun with it can go a long way. Ain't gonna tell you how to live your life, but if you are like most people, the mental benefits of cutting loose and having fun for a bit are gonna far outweigh the minor amount of extra fat you might gain vs the "smart" way. Don't want you to rob yourself of the simple joys of crushing a full pizza to celebrate your weekly bench PRs.
Yeah, I've done several phases of RP style cutting/maintaining. I figure bulking will be like maintenance, except an extra 10-20g of carbs every meal (5 meal days).
cutting a few years breh
If you could nudge the volume up a little bit for the videos that’d be great! I watch your videos a lot on lunch and have the AC cranked in my car and can hardly hear the quality content - as specific of a situation this is I’m sure I’m not alone. Plus you can always turn your phone down, but you can’t make it any louder unfortunately 😢
The Helms/Mike episodes are very much appreciated 🎉
Ps as for the "other" Dr Mike, I can assure there is no comparison between him and PhD Mike (in their respective fields), for real❤
Thanks for this, guys.
I also appreciated mentioning the differences for nattys (I do find that having always been natty, I have to eat & train quite differently to buddies on gear).
Now i want the same study but with PEDS involved!!
Well, that is a lot harder to do, given most of the ones you would want to know the answers to are classified in a schedule that makes it harder to get funding and approval for. But, ya, send like a pretty important confounding factor
@@macgyvervanschwartzenstall4662 True. I'd be satisfied with a 500mg test group.
Bear in mind, this shit goes out the window if non-natural. Certain substances (read: Trenbolone) are monstrous on multiple fronts, not only the increased caloric requirements due to its excellent nutrient partitioning and muscle sparing (if in deficit) but also its own up regulation of metabolic rate in the user. You would be wasting gear if you didnt opt for 500-1k calories above normal consumption, in a bulk, when on gear like that.
But for those who are natural or truly on replacement levels of testosterone, like myself, this is *GREAT advice* and I will apply it once I lose the weight i've piled on over several years of inactivity and multiple back and knee surgeries due to career injuries in oil and gas.
Lost 167.2lbs from 9-15-23 until today and have 100 more to go to meet goal. Then lean bulk following 200-400 above maintenance for 20-24 weeks begins to restore strength and increase basal metabolic rate, then cut #2, roughly 50 lbs will commence. Hope to be back at under 15% BF @ 250-260lbs for first time since college football days, c 2007-2010!
imo thats another 1 of those "beginner" things. even people eating the entire trenbologne sandwich is going to start having 1% mass/year, when u stop gaining rapid mass, it doesn't matter if u're on tren; u dont need 500-1k
Is it only tren or the same with 250mg test and 250mg primo?
@@x2lazy2die Yeah, you have no idea how AAS's work. a person on even low doses, sub 300mg tren ace or enanthate paired with a test base, will put on substantial mass in short periods of time. I am speaking as a biologist (chemistry minor) by degree, so I understand not everyone cares to invest the time to enlighten themselves on how various anabolics work, whether its test derivatives, 19-nor derivatives, DHT based, alkylates, etc.
A personal friend who I lifted with on and off went from 205lb to 250lb, staying in the 12-13% bf range in a 16 week cycle of 500 test, 300 tren, cutting tren at 8 weeks, and packed 140lbs on his bench press in that time. 315 to 455. Trap bar deadlift went up 170-180 in that 16 week span. He was an Experienced lifter with 8-9 years of workout time, minimum 3x a week by the time he cycled. Hes kept his gains as he was on TRT pre cycle, like myself as of 1 year ago. He blasted, then cruises on his physician-administered dose of 180mg/week and 50mg/wk enclomiphene.
The right cycle, training and diet will have people gaining (assuming 180lbs lean mass) 1% of mass per WEEK, not yearly. *1% Yearly is natural gains for someone getting close to the peak of natural performance,* not an enhanced lifter on a cycle.
@@thekapeboy taking very short use substances like Miberolone (cheque drops) or methyltren (Metribolone) out of the equation because it is hell on the body, trenbolone is the most potent anabolic steroid that one can run in 8-12 week cycles and have manageable side effects. Its anabolic ratio is 5 times that of testosterone. So 200mg tren = roughly 1000mg testosterone.
Primobolan has an anabolic ratio of ~110 to testosterone's 100, so while a cycle of 250 test 250 primo wouldnt give quite the same results as the same mg in tren, the advantage of primo is *it is far less harsh on the body than trenbolone, so you can run cycles of longer duration* and it does lower estrogen (E2) so if you have aromatization issues with large amounts of testosterone, you can run primo at 1:1 and drop your E2 without requiring the use of an aromatase inhibitor.
TL;DR: test+primo = steady gains over longer cycle, less side effects.
test+tren = pack on moderate amounts of muscle and strength in very short order, far more side effects from tren cough, night sweats, tanked HDL, blood thickening and potential polycythemia from excessive erythropoiesis, tren dick, heart palpitations, blood pressure spikes, list goes on.
If youre going to do tren, best case is have a doctor monitor your bloods, work with an experienced coach who has cycled with the substance, and run as low a dose as possible, with a larger test base.
You'll be better off doing a 400 test/200 tren or something modest as opposed to some of these guys who get impatient, want gains overnight, and want to run 1000mg+ of total gear and crash their bloods to hell along with their heart and liver. Preferably, dont cycle either until you have 3-5 years of dedicated training as a natural lifter, in order to maximize your natural potential
I have 10+ years of lifting experience from 15-28, now back at it after 7 years of being lazy, and im probably going to be at it another 12 months restoring as much as I can of my original natural levels of strength from my college football days (400 bench/540 squat/660 deadlift @ 240lbs) before I hop on a compounded cycle.
I’m on 250mg of Test-E per week and hoping when I cut over the next few months that I’ll hold onto my muscle mass that I’ve gained
🙏
Have never cut while *enhanced* before, so very much hoping I’ll not lose muscle and strength as I always would as a natural
Its insanely cool this channel is funding studies like this.
Good talk!
Captain America and the Thing is here
I feel so validated. I’ve been telling people for years, traditional bulking does NOT work the way you’d expect.
Gaining 1 lb per month is actually optimal for most.
recently I see a lot of new studies and fitness influencers going against what was regarded as common wisdom, such as:
"bro you gotta eat more bro at least 500-1000 surplus"
"bro you need 2.5 grams of protein per lb of body weight"
"bro why are you wasting time with isolations bro your arms get enough work with compounds"
"bro machines are for pussies bro real men lift barbells bro"
"bro starting strength 5x5 lift heavy af bro lateral raises a waste of time you can't lift heavy with laterals, why not do a movement like OHP where you can go heavy bro, the weight on the dumbbell is all that matters bro"
I've been refuting that shit for years and have been getting clowned for it and now the fitness bigwigs started talking about it so the mindset will change I hope.
honestly most of those "common wisdom" seem like the stuff powerlifters do but for some reason bodybuilders compied.
@@aca347 for people on steroids 2.5 grams protein per pound of bodyweight isn't terrible. Although they shouldn't really go above 2. For a natty like even when cutting like max 1.3g/ pound. 1 is usually enough.
@@aca347 They say that while not doing it themselves. Ignore them at all costs they will have you going round in circles.
1 lb per month is cap. 2lb is on the lower side. Eric mentions 250-400kcal surplus per week, so that's roughly 2lbs-4lbs per month.
Personally I will change my gaining phase from 700 to 400 kcal per week, and figure out a way to fit a shorter cut into my blocks
@@incogneeto2418 anyone that’s run a properly measured bulk will tell you that a 250-400 calorie surplus will not even net you 2-3 lbs per month, let me explain.
Yes there is 3500 calories in 1 lb of fat, so that would mean energetically you would need to consume, digest, and absorb 100% of the calories you actually eat to equate eating the additional 250 calories for it to be synthesized.
What people don’t consider, and this is where people with actual experience can tell you, that when you increase calories more of the food you consume becomes undigested/not absorbed which then cannot be synthesized into tissue in a 1:1 fashion.
If someone eats an addition 400 calories, as an example, on paper they’re eating over their maintenance…but what ACTUALLY HAPPENS? A host of things happen:
1. Your metabolism is increased, through NEAT and TEF. People will also dramatically differ in NEAT based on their genetics too, there’s been studies of people eating 600 calorie surpluses that gained 0 weight due to a huge increase in fidgeting.
2. Digestion. This includes TEF and also a persons ability to digest the larger amounts of food incoming into their system. This is why we don’t see people gain a ton of weight in acute over feeding studies (they’ve done studies where people were over fed 6000+ calories, yet don’t gain any appreciable amount of fat). The more you eat the less that’s able to be digested especially in certain people.
Let’s take me as an example, my maintenance calories (with 0 cardio and 2-3k steps per day, training with weights 5-6 days per week 1-1.5 hour session) is 2,650 calories. If I eat this amount, btw I weigh every single thing I eat, I will not gain an ounce of weight nor will I lose weight.
Let’s say I want to bulk, I start with around 2,800-2,900 calories, after a month I will typically put on something like a half of a lb to MAYBE a lb. This is how it works in the real world due to all the aforementioned factors.
This is where Eric is talking about your body’s feedback, because depending on how inefficient your digestion is you may have to go far above what the calories on paper say.
Eating a 200-400 calorie surplus over your maintenance is not a 1:1 guaranteed translation to tissue so your claims are inaccurate and show a lack of experience.
Best results I've seen have been at 35 when I went to a 200-300 surplus (been about 17 week to date, up about 10-11lbs). I had done a bulking phase back in my late 20's where it was probably closer to a 1000 cal surplus. Didn't like the end results and the long cut, and was tentative to try again (had basically been at maintenance after cutting back down for years). Finally decided to bulk but to do it slower, and it's working great!
This is actually relief, I'm new into building muscle, been whatching doctor Mike only since late last year, was paranoid I wasn't eating enough, I'm so tired of eating PRAISE THE SUN
This channel contradicts itself every week 😭😭
don't say it. Mike's stans won't like it
welcome to life
I've been preaching that "bulking" is pointless since I was in high school. Now 15 years later I hear all over the place that I was right.
I love my MASS subscription. Fantastic value.
Love the intro music!
And the science too of course..
Greg strikes again!
Starting to see a fee of these Rn, I'll also add this information isn't new
This was popular like 10 15 years ago
I'm pretty sure there is other studies that are co ducted that shoe this as well although don't quote me
There are more than just salesman Greg giving out information that can be true
Greg is a salesman through and through
While he is in his Lamborghini you are still foing in circle tryna figure out if you should bulk or not
Dr Mike looking fine
The good Dr. is one of those guys who say they are small but are straight mayo jars down there. I am waiting on getting access to that secret OF account to verify my hypothesis.
his poor wife getting boring company'd
I returned to training after a 6-year layoff. I was 310 when I stopped. I discovered subsequently why I lost motivation: my reason for training was to fill out my previously super-slender body. And I felt, looked weak inside. 6 years ago I found I no longer felt skinny and weak in the inside so the muscle armor/bulk felt superfluous. I was tired of eating, eating, eating several times a day. 8 weeks ago I recommenced with training. To firm up, lose weight. BUT, no excess food. I'm gaining results with effective training, but no bulking-up eating. Unlike before, training is not a 24/7 obsession. An hour 4 times a week, and that along with a busy lifestyle, I finally found the right balance.
I appreciate them talking about beginners (im probably an outlier on this channel), I would really love a video where Dr. Mike goes through how he would have a brand new beginner train and diet for the first few years. Could maybe even split it up into different starting points like super skinny or kinda fat.
Yikes 😬 mikes face when they said "they never call back"😭
I LOVE that the whole field of sport science is kicking in open doors. Never had me say "oh wow, could not have guessed that". My first course in neurology had me have my mind blown by the findings. But no big biceps among the teachers ofc 😉
Dr Mike, thank you for putting money on this, you are really helping the good guys and we are taking advantage of this worldwide. I wish I could buy your products, but need you to match the Brazilian money price, as Dollars are out of my league.
Other fitness RUclipsr’s after hitting a million subscribers: buys lamborghini.
RP after hitting a million: funds research and also buys lamborghini.
Also, Greg is laughing maniacally right now lol.
Chris Evans bring up a good point
💕💕💕 The SHREK photo video thumbnail !!
Always great to get some scientific insight into things we take for granted to be true, especially when we find out they aren't or it isn't that simple.
One guy that’s been preaching this for over a decade on RUclips is AthelanX.
after watching the whole video, I understood nothing. How can I apply this interview to my daily eating schedule? We need a video from Dr.Mike explaining in detail how we can apply Captain America's findings into our own worlds.
From my understanding you should be in a 200-400 calories surplus, so a bulk
Essentially intensive bulking and intensive cutting isnt really gaining that much. You lose ability to gain muscle and some muscle during that big cut essentially breaking even.
So a light surplus 200-250 calories and a lighter cut is better at getting gains.
Also more prominent results of bulking with noob gains.
What I gathered is enough excess to gain around 1% of body weight per month during these light bulks.
I'm still training. It's not just about muscle for me but it feels awesome. I enjoy the feeling of lifting as a great lifestyle. Only downside is leg days have me unable to stand for long periods.
I always looked at bulking, dirty bulking and just putting on a lot of excess weight as more of a motivator and didn't necessarily ever think It was purely performance oriented, You just look bigger and in turn depending on what your goals are that can be a huge motivation for people in the gym, especially when you start off quite thin. Not being able to see the scale move drastically can hurt some people while others are just fine with slow/steady gains that of course you'd get regardless If you're eating enough in this case and doing the required work.
Greg Doucette bout to told-you-so harder than last time 😂
A broken clock is right twice a day 😂
he shouldn't even get the credit for this. other folks have been making similar claims since a decade.
@@arjun4351Greg doesn't gate keep working out by labeling it "science based"
@@aca347so when he is right about it he shouldn't get credit, when he was wrong he was a lightning rod for criticism lol just insecurity