Review: Bezzera Matrix MN and Duo MN Espresso Machines
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- Опубликовано: 25 июл 2024
- Review of the new Bezzera Matrix MN and Duo MN semi-automatic espresso machines. Marc and Todd from Whole Latte Love review 2 new dual boiler PID Machines from Bezzera - the Matrix and Duo. These machines feature a new Gicar PID controller with extended capabilities including programmable pre-infusion and pre-wetting, LED lighting effects, automatic turn on and turn off time by day of the week, maintenance reminders and automatic backflushing.
Check out the new Bezzera machines:
Matrix MN: www.wholelattelove.com/bezzer...
Duo MN: www.wholelattelove.com/bezzer... 
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Great video guys thank you! I’m more interested in the BZ group on these new offerings though. I see from another comment you will have them soon. I would love to see a detailed ecm synk vs. Matrix bz group video soon. Couple of questions: -What are your thoughts on the smaller sized boilers? Do you think with the smaller boilers paired with those heating elements allows faster recovery vs the larger boilers on an ecm? The steaming looked great which I was interested in seeing, have you tried larger pitchers and noticed any drop off?
-Can you run this in 20amp mode and have both boilers heating simultaneously?
-compared to a bz07 theoretically shouldn’t the new bZ group be more temp stable as it is now pid controlled?
-lastly in the second extraction it looked like the machine only reached 8 bar? How easy is adjustment of brew pressure on these?
Thanks so much, once my v2b sells I’ll be reaching out to wll for a machine/Grinder package
Hi C Mansen, Thanks for the comment and great questions! A lot of knowledgeable viewers out there judging by the response to this video. We will most definitely do a comparison of the Synchronika to the Bezzera machines in the coming weeks. I've never had an issue with boiler recovery on the Synchronika. Always back up to temp and ready to go by the time I've loaded the next PF or I'm ready to steam again. The Bezzera recovers quickly as well. I have not done official testing on recovery times but you are right, they should recover quickly and they pack a lot of power. Sticker rates the machines at 14amps/1.6kw. Steaming power was impressive. Max temp/pressure is 266F/~1.75 bar. That's a little under Synchronika with the new PID at ~271/~2bar. I do not believe there's a 20amp mode which will heat both boiler simultaneously. You can assign priority to either boiler or both for initial heating. Once up to temp the PID will alternate in short pulses to maintain both boilers. PID temp control should be more stable. If you missed it, I did some group temp testing on a BZ07 with thermostat controlled heated group a few weeks ago. The group temp wobbled by 5 degrees with the thermostat. Here's a link to that section of the video: ruclips.net/video/Rn1S23pGPiQ/видео.htmlm18s We noticed the 8bar brew pressure indicated as well. That's the way the machine came out of the box. Before shipping to customers we bench test w/Scace and set brew pressure to 9bar. Also, the Bezzera machines measure pressure with a transducer. Our initial impression (we need to test some more) is transducers may not be as accurate as mechanical gauges. Also pressure display seems to be more granular. We need to test more but think the digital display jumps in 1bar steps. Pressure adjustment is fairly easy. The adjustment from the pump sticks out of the bottom of the case just in front of the left rear leg. Loosen a plastic (we would prefer metal) lock nut and turn to adjust pressure. Kind of have to hang one leg off the counter when adjusting. Lacking a Scace or other group mounted pressure measuring device we'd put in a blind filter basket and adjust brew pressure to 9bar for rotary pump machines like these or ~10bar on vibe pump machines with OPVs. Hope that helps and hope your machine sells soon!
Thank you for the fast and detailed response! I appreciate the time Whole Latte Love takes on these videos, and the responses you give. It’s one of the reasons I’m a repeat customer!
You are welcome and thanks for the repeat business! I do my best to give detailed responses to RUclips comments and questions within 1 business day. Marc
So Marc, my V2B sold along with my e6p......package deal time? When is the Matrix with the BZ group landing?
Hi C, We expect to receive the Matrix with heated group in about 2 weeks.
I bought the Duo MN six months ago and it is fantastic. The LCD is very useful. It provides a world of information and sets these machines apart: The programmable wake timer, using cleaning mode, setting temperatures and seeing current temperature are all very easy. Also, the machine heats up very quickly (I have the 20A circuit).
Hi Marshall, Thanks for sharing your impressions of the Bezzera Duo MN! Hop[efully it helps others considering the machine.
Marc
nice and thick shot
I thought I needed a pro 700... now I’m not so sure. Looking forward to the in-depth videos!
Hi Mike, Thanks for the comment! These decisions can be tough!!! A couple things to consider vs. the Pro 700... When plumbed, either can do a line pressure pre-infusion. The Bezzera machines do have a solenoid which cuts line pressure to the machine when it's turned off. The Pro 700 does not so it's always open to line pressure. The new Gicar control on the Bezzera is nice! Lot's of additional capabilities with that like programmable on/off times by day of week, maintenance reminders, etc. The Pro 700 is in our opinion more user serviceable. There's a simple elegance to it's internal design. New features on the Bezzera add a lot of complexity inside. Also get more steam on the Pro 700 with the service boiler running near 2bar vs. 1.75 on the Bezzera. Not a huge difference but some.
you guys are making the best reviews ever, top notch!!
Does the preinfusion also work when the machine is set to water tank reservoir?
Hi Bob, Thank you for the comment and question! You can get pre-wetting when running from reservoir. Maybe an ounce or so dropped on the puck from residual pressure in the brew boiler. Pre-infusion requires plumbing and line pressure.
Marc
Hi guys, great video for sure, I just have a question about the steam system, do you need to keep pressing for steaming?
Thanks for sharing, great video as always.
I guess if I would be in the market for home dual boiler I would look at ECM's but those Bezzera looks really nice, the only minus is see from vid they have small boilers.
Hi i, Thanks for the comment. The boilers do run a bit smaller than some other machines. With PID preventing overshoot and powerful heating elements we've had no issue with recovery when doing back to back milk drinks.
Thanks for reply!
Wonder how the Bezzera's perform against 2.0L HX machines. (steam power wise)
Looking forward to your comparison video between the Duo DE and the Duo MN! Oh the decisions!
Hi TC, Here's our review of the Duo/Matrix DE: ruclips.net/video/1vuvwNLgS9g/видео.html Coming later today or tomorrow a video comparing key differences between the DE and MN machine versions - stay tuned!
Perfect. Can't wait!
Excellent video. Thank you. Can you maybe do a comparison between the Bezzera duo de and the ECM Syncronika / Pro 700?
Hi Mac, Thanks for comment and request. We will be doing that soon!
Hi Marc, was wondering would it be possible to add flow control on these?
Thx for the great video’s
Tim
Hi Tim, Thanks for the kind comment and question. Bezzera does not currently have a flow control for their machines. That said, FCDs from other manufacturers designed for use on E61 group machines do work.
Hello Guys! as usual great video! I have bought in January one Duo MN and have noticed that Pump pressure varies when brewing, it is not constant, it bounces between 8 and 9 Bars and I see it in the coffee flow, which from all I read so far should not occur for the sake of the espresso quality. I assume also this is a sign of a non quality rotation pump. I'm considering to return it because constant water pressure was my main reason to choose one rotation pump over vibration pump. Another issue I've noticed is that the brew lever gets hard sometime to rotate and for 3 times the switch is not switching off, I have to raise the lever and bring it down again to stop the coffee brew. What do you think, can you give me from your experience some advice?
Hi Rui, Pumps in these machines are rock solid. I doubt the pump is causing the fluctuations in your brew pressure. Unless for some reason your source power has variation. I have seen cases when machines are on long power runs and inadequate voltage is supplied to the machine. When the PID cycles a heating element on in the machine while the pump is running this may reduce power to the pump. This is not a machine problem, but a problem of your source power if that is what's going on. I would try plugging the machine into another power source. Also avoid underrated power extension cords and wiring.
Can you also review the DE version with the BZ group ?It is supposed to be (is it?) thermally more stable and faster to heat up.
Hi vrallis, We will be reviewing the version with the heated group. Currently have the machine in-house for evaluation. We recently did a video comparing the Bezzera BZ07, Profitec Pro 500 and Rocket Evo-R. The BZ07 has the electrically heated group. It reached stable temp at the group 18 minutes after power on. That was a full 20 minutes faster than the other machines. I would expect similar results for the DE. If interested, you can see the BZ07, P500, Rocket compare video here: ruclips.net/video/Rn1S23pGPiQ/видео.htmlm12s
Hi!
How is the Bezzera Duo performing compared to the ECM Syncronika? And what about build quality and intern components? Which one would be your choice for a home espresso machine?
Hi Emil, Performance wise the ECM Synchronika runs with more pressure in the service boiler ~2bar vs. ~1.75 in the Bezzeras. I'd give the edge to the Synchronika for build quality. It's a little more refined in external case finishing and I prefer the ECM's angled portafilters. The ECM is IMO the easiest dual boiler PID machine to work on. Remove 3 screws and you are inside with easy access to all components - there's a lot of room under the hood! The Bezzeras have additional features which require more complex internal components. We are still evaluating the internals, but believe we counted 3 power conditioning components in the Bezzeras. At the end of the day either of the machines have similar potential. The Bezzeras features do not mean you'll be making better espresso. They are about user convenience with things like the programmable on/off times and maintenance reminders. All can do line pressure pre-infusion when plumbed. It's a tough call as to which I would choose as a home machine. The convenience features of the Bezzeras are nice but they do up the complexity! If you're the type who would get under the hood there's a lot to like with the Synchronika.
Whole Latte Love Thank you a lot for the detailed answer! Looking forward to the upcoming video about the inside of the bezzera. Have a nice day!
How do you adjust the pressure for the pre-infusion? You said something about it being plumbed to it's rotary pump.
Hi William, When the E61 lever is lifted the coffee is exposed to line pressure prior to the pump turning on. Pressure can be adjusted using a pressure regulator like this one on the plumbed in connection: www.wholelattelove.com/products/bwt-inline-pressure-reduce-m-3-8-x-f-3-8-2-8-bar
Hey Mark and team a couple of questions: does the electrically heated model heat up fast , similar to the Bezzera BZ13?
Will we ever see a flow controller installed on the electrically heated model?
thanks!
Hi Khaled, Yes the electrically heated BZ group does heat up faster! I never say never but think it's unlikely we'll see flow control on a BZ group.
Marc
Is that an RGB espresso machine? No way, Amazing!!!!
Hi Leonardo, Pretty cool right!
Will you guys be offering the other model(with the BZ group head)???
Hi Reasmiey, We will! Currently have a test unit in-house with shipping models in route to us. Watch for a review in next couple weeks.
Hi Marc - great video and very helpful. These machines seem like they have a ton of great features. If we took price out of it, would you recommend the Duo MN or the Rocket R58 based on ease of use and quality of shot? Thanks for all your insights!
Hi river, Thanks for the comment and question. Both the Bezzera Matrix and R Cinquantotto (new version of R58) are IMO capable of similar quality shots. There are aesthetic differences of course which are subjective to one's personal taste. The Duo does offer some extended capabilities with timed pre-wetting and line pressure pre-infusion. If you would use those features then give the Bezzera high consideration.
Marc
Thank you!
Great video, erudite as always. But I was wondering how long either of these take to get to temp from off.
Hi v, Thanks for the comment and question. It's about 30 minutes to full warm up on the MN (E61 group) versions of these machines. The Matrix and Duo also come in DE versions which have Bezzera's heated group and programmable volume. DE version are fully warmed up and ready to go in 30 minutes also. Both version have programmable on/off times by day of week so they can be ready to go when you are! 30 minute warm up time is based on Scace testing of brew water and time to get consistent temperature of each machines group measured with thermometer attached externally to group body.
Marc
Whole Latte Love Cool, thanks for taking the time to answer.
Hi, it would be really interesting to see the difference between the mn and the de regarding heat up time and tempurature stability, especially with the new pid controlled bezzera group. Thanks for your videos btw!
Hi s, You are welcome and thanks for the question. We have the DE versions of the Matrix and Duo in-house now and expect to do video comparing to MN machines with E61 group in the next couple of weeks. In the meantime, previous experience with other Bezzera machines with the heated group suggest faster warm-up than E61 group machines. One nice feature on both the MN and DE version is built in programmable on/off timer with the new Gicar controller.
No, they like to show the lights that's more important for brew and taste.
I would buy four of these if it was NSF rated or there was a commercial version. SUCH LED its functional and beautiful.
Hi k, Thanks for the comment. FYI many machines could likely get an NSF but manufacturers don't pursue for what they consider domestic use machines - especially if they make mutli-group commercial machines.
Marc
Hi Marc,
I recently purchased a Bezzera Duo MN and have used a WeMo for my previous coffee machine.
I've tried to set up the WeMo with the Duo MN and the machine powers on but you have to touch the screen to wake up from sleep/standby mode. Is there a way to bypass this?
Hi Evelyn, Good question and so far I have not found a way around that. I will ask Bezzera. The Duo does have programmable on/off times by day of the week. Guessing you knew that - but just in case!
A firmware update solves this.
Hi guys, I just purchased this one a month ago. I’m using the tank (not plumbed in). The steam somehow drops to 0.5 quite quickly so I couldn’t swirl the milk properly after I introduced air, roughly around the 3-4s mark. Is this normal? I’m using a 600ml jug which I don’t think it’s too big
Hi TAB, Steam pressure should drop on steaming but you should still have good steaming performance with the drop. What temperature is your steam boiler set to? It can be set to a max of 266F/130C for highest initial steam pressure. 600ml/20oz frothing pitcher is fairly large but the machine should be able to handle it.
Would you guys do a comparsion with the rocket r58? Really informative video thank you.
Hi Nathan, You are welcome and thanks for the comment and request. We do have a bunch of videos featuring Rocket's R58. Here's one which compares features of the Rocket R58 V2, ECM Synchronika, Expobar Brewtus IV-R and Profitec Pro 700: ruclips.net/video/yel0wRhujIk/видео.html A quick search for "R58" on our channel will turn up some more! If you have specific questions on the R58 vs. the Matrix & Duo I'd be happy to answer them!
Marc
Whole Latte Love Hi Marc,
Really appreciate the related videos, I was more curious whether to opt for a more traditional machine like r58 or a more tech oritenated machine.
Hi Nathan, No problem. What do you consider to be a more tech oriented machine?
Whole Latte Love Hello again, just the inclusion of extra features that a conventional machine wouldn't have. The use of programmable wake up times, being able to control each boiler is quite special. I'm just trying to figure out which offers better value and the best end product between the r58 and this machine. What do you guys think?
Chrome or colored panels? I love them both, it’s hard to pick.
Hi Matt, Thanks for the comment - decisions!
Marc
Hi, I just got this Matrix and just wondering if auto on and off is actually turning off the boiler or just the lcd screen? Mine has automatically turned off for a few hours but the grouphead is still hot?
Hi Riz, Thanks for the question, The auto off should turn off the boiler heating. Just how hot is your group head a few hours after shutting off? There's a large mass of metal to cool off in the group head plus residual heat from the insulated boiler. I've never timed how long it takes the machine to return to room temperature but could be a couple hours after it stops heating.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage thanks for the reply Marc. I did another test to see how long it takes for the boiler to cool. I turned it on for about half an hour then power it off, it took about an hour to cool off. Previously I might’ve turned it on for a bit longer. Thanks again. Love your channel.
I was just checking. On Bezzera website it looks like you can do pre-infusion with it using the tank or having it plumbed. I really want that feature but don't have a way at the moment to plumb in a machine. The only machine I can find that allows pre-infusion using the tank is the Breville Dual Boiler (which doesn't have a plumb option) but this looks like another one. I know the Breville isn't considered a Prosumer machine but again I would really like to get the Pre-infusion option. Can you please clarify if you can do Pre-infusion the the Bezzera? Thanks so much.
Hi Bill, Thanks for the question. When not plumbed what you'll get is a pre-wetting of the coffee after lifting the E61 lever. After that the pump will delay based on time set on the touch screen. The Crem One Infuser can do a gentle pre-infusion with a variable speed pump ramping up to full brew pressure over user settable time of 0 - 30 seconds. It can do this regardless if running from reservoir or plumbed to waterline. See how that works in this video: ruclips.net/video/S88TwFdLfns/видео.html
And learn more about the Crem One Infuser here: www.wholelattelove.com/products/crem-one-infuser-dual-boiler-espresso-machine
Hope that helps!
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Thanks Marc! I see you just brought on the One Profiler as well that is like the Flow Control.
Hi, for the best espresso crema is better bezzera matrix or Profitec?
Thanks
HI SH, Either machine is capable of crema rich shots - I call them "Crema Buckets"! Producing crema is more about the coffee used and getting the grind size right. Classic Italian style bean blends like Maromas Orphea: www.wholelattelove.com/products/maromas-orphea-whole-bean-espresso
Or Lavazza Super Crema: www.wholelattelove.com/products/lavazza-super-crema-whole-bean-espresso-coffee
Produce lots of crema. Both contain some Robusta beans in the mix which help crema production - and they do not have to be extra fresh to do so.
Another excellent 100% Arabica blend that uses all specialty grade beans is our very own Crema Wave: www.wholelattelove.com/products/whole-latte-love-crema-wave-whole-bean-espresso
Hope that helps!
Marc
how do i know the pressure of the steam ? there is no gauge for it .
Hi 3, Steam pressure and steam boiler temperature are indicated on the digital display screen.
Marc
Hey Marc, do you guys have a showroom or do you only do online purchases? I live in Pennsylvania and wouldn't mind making the drive to pickup a machine rather than having it mailed. Thank you!
Hi Matt, We do not technically have a showroom but have had customers pickup machines at our location. Problem is most of our staff is working remotely so there could be some logistical issues at this time making an in person pickup difficult. Best thing to do is speak directly with one of our coffee pros at 585-924-7170 to inquire about setting up something in person.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Sounds good, thanks!
Please do a review on bezzera magica pid
Hi GS, Thanks for the request. Unfortunately it's not a machine we carry at that moment so I do not have one to review :(. If looking for a heat exchange boiler machine with PID, I highly recommend
Profitec Pro 500: www.wholelattelove.com/profitec-pro-500-pid-espresso-machine
Rocket Espresso Mozzafiato/Giotto: www.wholelattelove.com/brands/rocket-espresso?price=2000-3000
(they come in "Type V" with vibration pump or "Evo R" rotary pump/plumbable)
Marc
How many shots does this pull an hour
Hi jojo, Thank for the question. If asking in regards to use in a commercial application understand the machine is intended for domestic use. That said, The machine can brew as fats as you can load it up. Ready and recovered by the time you grind and load for the next shot. You will likely see brew temp variations if used rapidly for continuous shots.
Marc
Not a fan of LCD displays, but it certainly saves space on the face of the machine.
Hi Jaay, Thanks for the comment!
What is going on with these machines? I hear Bezzera is now shipping them with 20 amp plugs and instructing dealers not to put 15 amp plugs on them. Are these now 20 amp only machines?
Hi Z06, That is correct. If one has a 20amp service it's possible to have both boilers heat simultaneously. We are shipping an adapter with machines for standard Edison plugs and setting machines to heat coffee boiler 1st.
Marc
I could get a Bezzera machine ELLISSE E2P.I mean I would like to buy it. They could offer it to me, even if I have to pay it in advance.
cool
I turned mine to red. Any special friends want to come over?
You guys should start accepting bitcoin using bitpay. And also start shipping to Canada.
Hi Jay, Our web team is all about the bitcoin! They've made and lost and made and lost small fortunes over the past few months. We may get there but think it needs to shake out to something a "bit" more stable!
Whole Latte Love you guys should look into bitpay. It basically converts it directly into fiat for you guys and it allows the customer other ways to pay. Also ship to Canada for me 😅✌🏽