Mixing Molten Metals. What Could Go Wrong??
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- Опубликовано: 12 авг 2021
- I attempt to alloy copper and aluminum together while in a molten state. Interesting idea, but it doesn't go as planned.
The idea was to get swirls of different metals in the casting. Mixing the two together in 1 crucible would have made 1 homogeneous alloy, not produced swirl patterns.
I may do some experimenting with the same idea but using tin and zinc to make bronze/brass. It all depends on what the alloys of these metals will produce. If I can find one that doesn’t produce a weak and brittle alloy it might still work.
FYI the boiling temperature of aluminum is 4400F.
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It’s cool that so many people are commenting and trying to predict the results. I’m reading all the comments, but there are too many for me to reply to all of them. And it seems I’m not the only one who didn’t predict the crappy alloy problem. 🤦♂️ Appreciate all the interaction. Have a great weekend everybody!
This is my life sometimes I come up with a simple idea and it turns out to be fairly complicated
The strength of an alloy all comes down to the crystal structure of the atomic lattice. Aside from all of the problems of trying to do interrupted pours at different temperatures, if you are creating an alloy that doesn’t form into a good lattice, it will fail.
Can you melt down the test pieces to see what happens??
Try the reg bronze and brass, but lean in with the oxidation.
One floats
First thing I thought was: Never do experiments with molten metal in shorts! 😂
Ahaha...great advice. Don't fry eggs or bacon in your underwater, either
Bah, you dont need to worry about safety.
Yep, same thought.
Darwin Award...
Or a Shell Suit, lol
I’m guessing if you’re pouring it in together and making a 5050 mix it will probably not be that great. I tried this years ago in the ingot broke when I dropped it , I really hope you have found a solution🤞🏻.....
Hahaha! I knew somebody had tried this before. Of course it would be the king of melting himself!
@@FarmCraft101 oh man I was really hoping you cracked the code. The one I made was only a small ingot but was very silver in colour but I have always been meaning to do a big bar pouring the aluminium and copper in separate ends of the mould but it’s one of those things that’s on the list that I will eventually get around to it but in the meantime I’ll just send people over here when they continue to ask me in the comments to do it👌🏻😁
Haha. I was gunna ask him if he ever watched BigStack!
imagine if tito4re was still active, would he be the king of melting?
@@rickydona919 Yes Tito4re wouldve definitely be up there in the millions of subs probably 3 million+ at least I reckon , It’s a shame he didn’t stick around.
There are no failures in projects like this, just varying levels of success! Thank you.
One of the most underrated channels out there. Thank you for posting videos like this - you learned, and we all learned.
Please explain how the channel is underrated.
@@CptSpears007 explosion?
See 'Welding Metallurgy' by Linnert. It has been my go to source for 30+ years. The book could be considered a bible to anyone considering a life in metals. It explains why stainless is stainless and which aluminiums are weldable. It helped me to weld aluminium to steel. The copper section is extensive and describes the various alloying agents.
When he mentions the ratios like 90/10% Is that by weight or volume?
@@keithkeyser9546 Weight, unless otherwise specified. It's a good question and made me think back to how my casting customers did it on the scale.
@@richspillman4191 I used to home brew and made some mead. The recipe said mix the honey and the water 1:4. Here's the catch. Honey is sold by weight and water by volume. The educated guess is to measure out the honey by volume, and it turned out as it should.
@@keithkeyser9546 has honey always been sold by weight? seems like mead recipies would predate the selling honey by weight thing. I mean, its more or less liquid so why not sell it by the pint??
@@lukewarmwater6412 long story short, just like tomatoes it all starts with tax evasion and a judge deciding its one thing and not another
Mix the heated metals prior to pouring them. Once you have a nice hard Cu-Al cast, apply a thin coat of one or the other pure metal to your casting by dipping your casting into the molten metal. Make sure the molten metal is as liquidy as possible to produce the thinnest layer as possible. Once cooled down, grind smooth for a textured dual metal surface look.
Just an idea. :)
Happy creating!
Liquidy, I like that word.
Lowest viscosity is also a good way of putting it.
@@jeffs7573 Thin works too. Like thin paint.
This is a cool idea. Shows the insides, just not directly.
That is a good experiment. Try freezing an oil/vinegar emulsion. Same thing, no risk of getting burned.
It can only be done in the absence of gravity and magnetism... total vacuum and a few other unusual conditions.. if you want a viable alloy.
It has been done. A microgram costs more than a metric ton of rhodium... wrapped in a space station orbiting the outer kuiper belt.
Our physics is limited by our dimensional physical position. We knew this when Tesla was alive.
Some day, they will tell us our DNA is directly related to our star. It breaks down if we get to far away.
have you thought about pouring the aluminum out onto a metal table top, letting it cool, then pouring the copper next to it? The heat of the copper should melt only a little bit of the aluminum and I think you would get the effect you wanted.
I've seen someone do a tray filled with alu and then as it starts to cool drizzle copper over the surface. You get decent fusion without ruining the integrity of the alu sheet.
Interesting ideas there. I would like to see him try this out.
Exactly what I was thinking, and it would probably get a cool effect. Hope this is possible!
"what am i doing today?"
"double fisting crucibles of molten metal."
"what should I wear?"
"shorts, yah, definitely shorts."
As someone that makes beer for a living, I deal the specific gravity all the time. I have to assume there is going to be a oil and water kind of separation effect.
My first thought was "this might explode", my second thought was... "naw, he know what he's doin'". ;D
That is what I thought.
If he really knew what he was doing, he would have been wearing his PPE. He almost had a pretty bad accident because he was only wearing one glove. He has some pretty big spill and spalling risks in his setup there.
This is why sheetmetal is made by rolling out ingots rather than casting it into thin sections like this.
Pouring thin is really hard to do, especially on the scale of industrially made sheet metal. You also won't have the precision for the metal thickness, that the customers demand. It's easy enough for them to keep passing it through the rolling mill until it's down to the customer's need.
All I could think when trying to predict was "2 crucibles at once?! Craziest damn thing I ever heard of." Lol, and also "they probably won't mix evenly before freezing". You made that cannon though, so I gave it a chance. Glad I did. Fun video. I love my homemade aluminum bronze axe, keep trying! Keep in mind, even 13% is enough Al to get a glass-brittle alloy. From my own research and experience making and casting Al-bronze, one good way to get it evenly mixed is to alloy it in one crucible; add the Al after the Cu melts and mix the ingredients with a smooth up and down motion with something like a skim tool rather than a stirring motion, taking care not to agitate the surface of the melt. Mind you, I do this with the crucible still in my propane furnace with the burner running. An electric furnace would mean pulling it out and having to hurry more before things cool down too much. But if you are able to rig up a way to pour 2 crucibles simultaneously, I'm sure you can figure that out too. Then pour ingots to remelt when you go to pour your actual molds; that should help with getting the ingredients even more fully mixed together. Good luck!
Copper and aluminum have different rates of thermal expansion, so even if you do get some interesting swirls going on, I think they'll separate and crack as they cool. Also, they have different densities, so the aluminum may end up floating on top of the copper.
Is there a reason you didn't just heat the aluminum up in the same furnace to 2000F? Will that cause excessive oxidation?
I was wondering the same thing about heating them both to 2000ºF.
@@roseblite6449 - Aluminium burns like magnesium at that temp.
@@SnorrioK AH, bad idea then. Didn't know.
@@SnorrioK so do it in a modified atmosphere room (just kidding mostly, like this guy has a full breathing suit, air pumps and hoses, etc to do that) :D
I did not know that...so yes no bad idea then class D fires = bad
I stumbled upon this video and found it very interesting. Along with the fact that I learned something that I have never even thought about. Thanks for the information.
Those crucible holders are pretty cool TBH.
Thanks for sharing your videos, even when they don't quite go to plan. Have a good one man. 😎
A thought...try doing a low temp pour in areas with aluminum. allow to cool, then pour in the copper after. the copper will reheat and melt the aluminum in very limited areas.
5:20 The abrupt temperature increase to the aluminum... I don't know... can aluminum burn?
This is definitely cool, I would love to see more things like this! My undergraduate research was on trying to fuse YMnO3 and HoMnO3 using a focal point of light to heat the material to 2400 C after pressurizing it into a semi-stable but brittle (previously preheated powder) cylinder. By using the intense light to heat a single point to melting (but not so much it drips), we were able to slowly move the focal point up the length of the cylinder and allow physics to create the most energy effective crystal direction of growth. This allowed us to make large single crystalline samples for neutron diffraction, but it's so cool to think how else melting techniques and molding techniques could be done!
Awesome! Every time we learn something new it’s absolutely a success!
I did this a long time ago just with some copper wire and an aluminum can melted together in a steel can. Ended up with the same stuff you sanded to a shine. Eventually this intuition helped me design something really cool with other slightly different metals.
The cool looking result your after with two different types of metal and a transition zone between them, reminds me of explosion welding.
Had no idea what would happen but very impressed with your control when pouring cheers from UK
Cool experiment
Thanks for showing us your mistakes and being an honest bloke!
As for when it comes to metallurgy, it is more complex then most people think.
In order for the bonding between two metals to happen, you sometimes need to use a several different pre-treatments, add fluxes into the molten metal..
Use vaccum, pressurize the alloy whilst its mixing.. etc.
There is a lot that goes into doing it the best way, depending what type of alloy you are making.
I would try lookup some of the fluxes you might want to use in order to make the metals more suseptible to bonding..
And the correct temperature can also be critical to make the results good.
Its like when you do a soldering with a soldering iron and solderingwire... if you do the solder correctly.. you have clean surfaces and little contaminants.. You have enough flux to help with bonding.. you have the correct amount of heat, to not overheat, and not too low heat, so it won't properly liquify.
But warming the solderingwire for too long.. also overcooks the alloy, and removes the flux... and the solder becomes brittle.. matt, and voids starts appearing.. less bonding and so on..
If you compare that to this experiment, it would indicate that there are contaminants.. possibly the oily stuff in the green sand.
maybe the temperature is too high, or too low..
Maybe you need a flux.
Maybe you need 0.2% of a nickel, to use as a catalyst.
Maybe the copper needs to be preheated and heated for 30 minutes extra... versus the aluminium poured immidiately after smelting.
Perhaps making the alloy first, and then casting it, could solve some of the problem as well.
But in any case, i think with the right flux(fluxes) even that would get u further.
There are fluxes that removes contaminants..
Fluxes that allows higher or lower smelting temperatures..
fluxes that changes viscosity
Fluxes that increases bonding potential.
etc.
I used borox and ended up with aluminum bronze by accident. I forgot there was still a piece of copper in my crucible and when I started pouring in the end I was like why is this gold colored hahaha
I've no clue what's about to happen but I'm giddy with anticipation.
i had to pause on your 'this is not a drill' shirt because i was wheezing. i love shirts like that. big dad energy
I just love the execution of this experiment, especially compared to the many other youtubers who have done the same thing.
I just hate it when a youtuber is like "lets mix random metals, aluminum, brass and copper!"
and the first thing I think is "but copper is already IN brass, instead why don't you substitute brass for pure zinc."
I'm glad you didn't make the same error as so many other youtubers, and yes, there are other people who have mixed a bunch of metals on youtube.
I'm glad that mix didn't pop and fling molten metal on you, since who knows what sorts of stresses develop between the materials during pouring and cooling.
Stay safe! I like your videos.
Your crucible holders are awesome!
They mixed a good bit more than I had expected.
One thing that I would love to see is if you tried basically this same process, but measured out the ratios of copper to aluminum in advance. You said it yourself that due to its high surface tension its difficult to control how much aluminum you pour into the mold. But if you are simply emptying both crucibles, I don't see this being an issue. Of course, you would still end up with a sub-optimal alloy due to the amount left behind and the variations throughout the pour, but it could potentially be strong enough for an art piece like you had said.
Hi, can you weight them and melt them together and pour?
MAN, I love that T-Shirt I'm a steel fitter welder fabricator I've trained/worked with soooo many know-everything hardheads I've seen it all!!!
I enjoy your apparently inexhaustible ideas that you also implement!
I've been interested in using aluminum bronze for pommels and other knife and sword furniture. Thanks for experimenting for me!
Doesn't the different melting temperature cause an issue if they aren't melted together to make an alloy. The metal with the lower melting temp cool off the metal with a higher melting temp and they don't mix?
Well, one might suspect that the lower melting material would party dissolve the higher melting material. A "phase diagram" of Al & Cu might be helpful.
I've seen many folks with the proper attitude toward trying something new like this, and not getting the hoped-for result. You didn't fail! You succeeded in a different direction (as long as you were able to learn new things from it.)
I loved the polish on the actual aluminum bronze section. 90% copper, 10% aluminum? I'd bet there's a good metallurgy/chemistry reason behind that particular combination.
🤣🤣🤣🤣 I just dropped my phone @ shit-bronze!!!!! 🤣🤣🤣👍
Ok.... going back to finish the rest of the video now.
Interrupted pours generally result in a weak casting even if your staying with the same metal. The exception is adding a bit more to an open riser/feeder or spru as it shrinks. And there are better ways of handling that too. Was fun just the same.
Different temperatures will also lead to microfractures
Cool experiment and a good, practical way to learn something. I'd like to see you melt the proper aluminum bronze and cast something from it.
Sir could you please anwser a question i asked backyard pyro but no responce .but what would happen if you could create a new compound by melting all the "heavy" or"radioactive "materials together.
Could you insert aluminum rod (like 1/4" dia) into the mold, distributed evenly, and then pour the molten copper?
Those crucible holders are awesome innovations! Patent them!
I can't believe I just sat here and watched you do that ! Rush into town, go to the library, grab first book you see on metallurgy, read the pictures and look at the words, eat yout cereal with a fork, and stop using the Internet for information. ;)
You might be able to get an interesting effect from filling your mold with copper pellets or turnings, then pouring aluminum in. The outer layer of the mold will be wetted by the aluminum so you would need to cut into the model to get color changes.
That's actually a good idea. Mixing in some copper or brass shavings with the lower melting point of aluminum would suspend the brass or copper in the aluminum. I guess it would depend on how much heat the copper pulls from the aluminum. The difference in specific heat could be an issue if the aluminum goes solid before the mold is full. But it could work if the materials can't actually form an alloy because of the difference in melting temp.
I'm giving you a thumbs up. I would like to see someone try it.
It wouldn't give the marbled effect but it could look pretty cool.
what happens to led and aluminium of you heat them to the melting point of metal? will it boil?
what if you attempt the same procedure but with a horizontal cooling instead of a vertical one? would the result be the same?
Love the T-shirt!
the most extreme 'edward 40 hands' challenge ever!
Yeah my guess was something a bit more energetic during the pour. But I have to ask, what's the hottest pour temp for aluminum? What temp does it start to gas out?
I love how your t-shirt works on about 4 different levels. 😅
You learn something from everything you do...especially the oopsies. Fun fact: I have the same shirt...and my kid says "Yeah, I know...it's a hammer...duh"
I would like to mix the two liquids before poring In to mold
What will happen when you melt the peace’s that you have now if you were to melt them now then pour in to mold
I don’t know what happens to aluminum when you take it up to the temperature of brass melting
Aluminum bronze alloy sounds like a great solid bushing material.
What do you use to degas your aluminum?
Can you get galvanic action when metals are partially mixed, I am thinking of the trend of pattern welding unlike metals?
Would be interested in seeing it poured into something like a cement mixer, that way they are actively being mixed, though might just coat the mixer. But active mixing could let you pour in the copper and the pour in the aluminum while the copper is still hot. Then once alloyed you could repeat and cast into something useful
Just a few days ago I tried mixing Lead with Aluminium or Zink. It does not like to mix with those metals and I got a very strange snow like conaistensy.
Interesting...question how would it work with a poor into a wide, flat, wide-open on top mold v the more traditional pours that you attempted?
The ration for alloys, is the ratio by weight or volume?
Can you just add a 9"×1" round bar to 1"×1" round bar in whatever scale 18 & 2, or what have you and smelt them together to get your alloy? Never having smelted nada im curious
My meager input: You want layers like this, you'll need to pour copper over solid aluminum that's been treated in some manner to avoid passivating, but that manner has to be compatible with the process (i.e. acid dip straight into paraffin would preserve the surface but isn't going to behave well when molten copper is poured over it in a tight mold).
Solution's likely to zincate copper shapes (lye bath electroplating with zinc). The zinc should absorb into the copper, hopefully, well enough to avoid bubbles, and the aluminum surface would be devoid of oxide so copper should bond well. Then you can turn the piece and have your layers well bonded with minimal alloying taking place.
Maybe... the hot copper will make the alluminum boil? Splashing molten metal of over the place... Glad I was wrong and you were safe!
It go boom and splat!
Edit: Was not expecting metal potato chips.
Years ago i was pouring small bronze sculptors and making my own bronze using copper (90%) and tin (10%) by weight. I made a gas fires foundry . I melted the copper first and then added the tin in the molten copper using the same crucible. then I added crushed coke cola bottle glass the glass melted to form a gas seal on the molten bronze, a cold metal rod poked into the bronze would remove the glass and a hand full of borax was add to the bronze as a flux before pouring
With the variances in density that makes me wonder how they produce that alloy in large quantities and keep it consistent.
Because of the different viscosities in the 2 metals, pouring them separately is going to mean they will not mix and, most likely become separate pieces when they solidify. Mixing them in a liquid state would ensure a better bond, but having one next to the other would cause a difference in their structure as they cooled at different rates. You might get a slight mixing between the 2, but it won't be enough for them to bond properly. It'd be interesting if you were to pour them in and do a single swirl to the point where the 2 metals weren't uniformly mixed but where they come into contact with each other may have mixed sufficiently to provide a bond.
Prediction: You wind up with a fresh coat of copper and aluminum on yourself
I can honestly say I have no idea what will happen. I don't think there will be any aluminum bronze but there might be some cool patterns between the two. I also think they might delaminate like they won't really stick together but will break apart once they are cooled.
Edit:
Dang! I didn't even think about the weight of the metals and the copper sinking, also that little piece that you sanded looks sweet!
Extremely coool crucible crutch holders or “crutchibles”!
Where did you get that small electric smelter.
That Tshirt is great lol 😆
what happens if the liquid metal is melting and mixing with a dust? you could control the percentage by volume.
what do you use to degas the aluminum?
I use a commercial product specifically for that. From budgetcastingsupply.com
Ok just got to having buffed it! Exactly as I suspected. Gas bubbles....its like a cold joint in a concrete foundation pour when a jackwagon doesn't calculate properly and had to order a second truck for the following day.
How was it alloyed in that one sample you showed at the beginning?
Typical way. I melted weighed out portions of copper and aluminum in a crucible and mixed them together.
This is going to explode
Edit: That was less dramatic than I expected. I thought the huge temperature difference would lead to extremely fast cooling.
At the 5:20 mark, my guess was that either the temperature difference would keep the metal from binding properly (possibly having some minor combustion in the mold) or that there's another binding element missing which could cause the metal to split apart after solidifying
After watching the rest of the video, the solidified outcome is about what I thought it would look like, but the reason for that outcome was not what I was thinking. I've only had a little bit of experience with metallurgy through welding, I wasn't expecting the metal to bind as much as it did, and kinda thought there would be more of a pattern with highly brittle weak points where the metal overlapped, it's neat to see multiple alloys form from just two materials (even if the vast majority of them formed a brittle mass of unusable junk metal) the fact there was a portion of it (even a small one) which came out close to the desired alloy is cool.
Thank you for information and insite. I am going to do this, however, I have several different techniques to combine these metals. Sorry, want to share, but untested to predict what outcome will be.
I like these results. Sad that they are so small. I am wondering if there's a third metal you can add to one or both of the starting metals to stabilize them. I am thinking lead or tin to the aluminum. And gold to the copper. But I would worry that the more different kinds of atoms you have, the more chaotic the crystal structure.
Pour layers of copper and silver to make your vase. Give ample time for molten metal to freeze between layers. Do not expect the vase to hold water when complete.
Can they be smelted together?
I wonder if you could stir it immediately after pouring until it all solidifies or maybe press it together with a press and fold it continuously.
hi mate i saw your 3d print casting videos and was thinking what if you use a acetone smothing in the 3d print and then you cast it that would erase all 3d print lines
I like your small oven that melted the copper, where did you get that from.
Tabletop furnace company. Search online.
I used to cast pewter for a living and on one occasion I was in a hurry clearing my bench of sprues from the molds I didn't notice I had scooped up a brass handled knife that I had been using as well, anyway I shoot all the bits back in the smelter and go and get a coffee while the pot is getting back to temperature which for the pewter I was using was a lot higher than most to help get it to cast the intricate filigree patterns I was working on, I came back to a pot with the usual dross on top but with a yellowish tint when I cleared the dross I discovered my knife blade and noticed the brass had almost totally melted anyway I cast this pewter/brass mix and it had some very pleasing colouration maybe try a version of that
I have no smelting equipment. But watching this - Why do smelters not fill their cruciples / furnaces with an inert gass?
When welding: stick electrodes are flux coated and MIG is argon or CO2 or mix covered and TIG must be argon shielded. SO: why dont smelters adopt the welders knowledge and use a gas to stop the molten metals oxydizing and making masses of DROSS?
Just my passing thought.
I wonder if using induction coils might allow for swirling and a more controlled cooling.
What do you degas with? Home shop machinist said salt or borax don't melt at aluminum melting temperatures.
Can you mix precius metal like platinum and silver?
Difference on density (Cu 8 g/cm3, Al 2.7 g.cm3) will make the liquid Al try to work its way up through the liquid Cu - so there may not be nice layering but instead some kind of a solidified slurry of the two metals, which might separate from each other and cause the whole block to crumble if the metals contract differently on solidifying. It works for damask because the solid layers are very similar in physical properties (density, thermal expansion, etc).
Deadly tee shirt. Reminiscent of Magritte, but funnier.
flash boil the aluminum when you pour copper over?
I kind of figured that you would get almost instantaneous alloy formation. Something that might be interesting would be to the take a chunk of aluminum, machine some sort of decorative pattern into it and pour molten copper onto the aluminum. I imagine if you pre-heat the aluminum to the right temp the copper would melt some of it before solidifying creating interesting boundary layers.
i normal dont do this but i hope it look good
Stopped at 5:20 - My prediction: The temperature difference between these two fluids is huge: 600f. Think about what happens when you pour boiling water on ice... a difference of less than 400F. There is a violent reaction as the temperatures equalize rapidly. I think what will happen is similar... there will be a lot of bubbling and popping and spraying.. and general danger. I think in the end you will end up with some blobs of copper/aluminum, though. Either way, you're alive to upload the video, so it couldn't have been that bad.
Edit: Oh, interesting! Thanks for doing these experiments. Fun to watch. I have never done any casting but I enjoy watching it happen.
What if you cast aluminium first in a partial mold and then cast the copper after repacking?
Might cause some of the aluminium to melt and create the swirling effect
One technique you could try would be to cast the copper first then cool it, clean it, brush it shiny then apply aluminum to the outside of the copper casting, and cover it with slip and reheat the copper to the melting point of aluminum. This would cause alloying of various amounts according to various factors such as thickness on the aluminum, oxygen , fluxes and depth of heating. I've made aluminum copper alloys before just playing with a torch and the hardness and brittle nature is surprising. The stuff almost looks crystalline when hit with a hammer. Perhaps some of the crystalline alloy could be 'painted' onto a copper vase after it is ground to a powder and mixed with a flux?
9:15 that section was probably the closest you cant get to a "transition" from good to bad of alloy percentages. It was in your hands and then it was destroyed lol!