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I’m from the Netherlands and we have banned adoption from other countries because it’s just unethical. Adoption here doesn’t happen often because we have access to birth control and decent social services. My heart breaks for her
My uncle by marriage was Navajo and was adopted by a white couple and I didn’t know he had been raised Mormon until we were cleaning out a storage unit and he pulled out a certificate of some kind and laughed. He had a difficult life before he died and I didn’t always understand how he thought about things, but being adopted had a huge influence on his life. I wish things had been easier for him. He was no longer a Mormon and had gone back to connect back with his culture.
I am Choctaw and adopted by white people. I can’t begin to imagine what your uncle went through. I have been “othered” all my days, but a lot of people just never had me on their radar. Growing up I always felt relatively safe, safe as any other kid in my class. I don’t think he would have had a moments peace growing up in a morman community.
My (step-)grandfather is Cree, and I didn’t realize until I was like 16 that he was a sixties scoop kid. He was taken before he even learned to talk. The people who “adopted” him didn’t even teach him English, he grew up speaking *Dutch.* He was the only native kid he knew growing up, and by the time he managed to track down what was left of his blood family, half of them didn’t even want him anymore. It was very sad. I never really questioned why none of the rest of my family looked like him growing up. He was the only (maternal) grandpa I’d ever known, so he was and still is *my grandpa,* no questions needed. Still, I can remember when it hit me; the fact that I’d never met any of his family, the fact that he was the only native person in my family, the fact his surname is “Ward”… the timelines of it all… it was the first time I had visited them since learning about the Scoop.
I was adopted out late (age 9), but allowed contact with my bio grandparents due to it being a private contract. Six months before my grandma passed, she told me she had to confess something to me, that she couldn't go to heaven with this sin on her soul. My grandfather's medical bills had put them into debt so deep they were going to lose their house, and I was special needs but they couldn't afford the care I needed; they sold me to a childless woman in the community for cash in an envelope. I was told it was $10k, but there's no way to know for sure. There's no one left alive for me to ask. I don't care what their motivations were; anyone who buys or sells a child is committing an act of Evil. There is no excuse. My grandmother understood the weight of what they did; she's the only one who's ever apologized to me. The only one who ever admitted their crime.
Omg I’m so angry she had the audacity to say such a thing to you!!! If it’s true she should have taken that to her grave. And if it wasn’t true why on earth would you make that up. Like you don’t have enough to think about in the wee hours of the morning. Everyone on the planet has their cross to bare, but in th case of the adoptees it always end is they have to carry not only their cross but the crosses of so many others as well. I’m sorry that happened to you.
I can relate to that so much. I am so sorry. My bio dad had drug debts and was going to go to jail for stolen credit card and he went to my parents. (Mom and Step Dad) and they paid him money to stay away.
My Wife lost her Niece and Nephew, ages 3 and 6 To LDS Family Services. My Sister in law was incarcerated for drug possession and so she signed her parental rights over to the Oldest Sister Jazmine. Jasmine had no intention to keep the children and secretly sold them to a wealthy LDS family for a decent sum of money. Through the 1 year adoption process, the kids were brought to birthday parties and other family holidays and nobody knew they were getting sold… This was 6 years ago and the mother of the children took her own life after being out and clean for 3 years. Really got her life together but couldn’t cope with not having her babies. The eldest sister has been disowned by the family since but that was only after she took all the donations from the funeral go fund me proceeds and left Utah… She is still very much an active member of the church lol. Story is crazy but 100 percent true. Love the LDS church so much I won’t touch it with a 100 ft pole.
If you're comfortable sharing, do you know how "formal" of a process it was? I hate to word it like that, but I'm just wondering how these kinds of "adoptions" (or sales) of babies are able to happen under the radar. I'm so sorry for yours and your wife's family 🙏
@ no problem. ya so i can’t speak for all LDS adoptions but in our case, the adopting family was known to the Sister in law somehow. Might have been in the same stake (which explains why it was so easy to have the kids appear at social gatherings) or someone within the stake knew the family. Either way, LDS services didn’t take anything probably other than fees to pay for the adoption but my sister in law was paid under the table for her troubles if you will. Nice car and nice clothes suddenly you get the picture. The children were highly sought after being Native American… Now they live a good life I imagine and the oldest will be ready to go on a mission in a few years but hopefully he looks for us to reunite. Who knows. My biggest gripe is the church didn’t reach out to anyone as far as biological family to see if they had any or if something was up. I find it terrible that they would just hawk 2 children without question or an investigation. They would have found an entire tribe willing to love them and take care of them but instead they turned a blind eye.
@@polybear08did they go to a white family because that’s illegal. ICCWA has been violated and legally they should be placed first with family, second other members of the same nation, and then with another nation if they cannot be taken in by their own people. There’s a number of additional steps to go through because of “ICCWA”
@@polybear08your family was skipped over so if you wanted to you could probably get that adoption over turned, because ITS NOT LEGAL. Talk to a lawyer familiar with Native American issues or the tribal elders.
I'm from Brazil and the adoption process is COMPLETELY different. The first time I was exposed to how your adoption system worked I was absolutely shocked. It really is human trafficking that was legalized.
I've seen couple times American couples adopting foreign children (nothing inherently bad about it) who just casually changed their child's name. Not their surname but first name. It's so crazy but nobody around them seems to understand that I live in Poland so this idea of child snatching and basically rewriting their identity hits close home to me. Happened a lot during WWII, happens today during the Russo-Ukrainian war If I wanted to adopt a foreign kid then I would learn their language and strive to keep them connected to their culture. That's common sense for me
I live in Belgium and we are trying to adopt, and it’s also a completely different process. First of all it’s a very long process with taking classes, assessment by a psychologist, home assessments, even before one gets approved to adopt at all, which gets approved by a judge. Only after that can one start the actual adoption process, which can also take years before there is a match on a child. It’s also very rare to adopt a baby or young child, as putting a child for adoption is not prioritised as a solution to an unwanted pregnancy (abortion is legal but we also have a good social system). Unlike in the USA it’s very rare that parental rights are taken away from birth parents (it really needs to be an extreme case). It can often happen that a child lives with foster parents almost their whole childhood but is never adopted (fostering to adopt doesn’t exist) because children may get taken away from their birth parents but they still keep parental rights, contact with the parents is encouraged, etc as much as possible.
@@angelikaskoroszyn8495 I was adopted thru the foster care system. LET ME GET THIS THING CLEAR its not names or raising that determines identity its your own self. I am glad I don't share my bio parents name and is working on changing even my adoptive name. I am not a Riley(bio name) nor am I an Atkins I am a Russel my mothers(my real mother the one who raised me and sacrificed for me not the bio one who just gave birth to me) family's name. The caps aren't to hate on you by the way
@@s.a.4358the UK system is similar to Belgium by the sounds of it, takes years so many assments and rare to get a young child and definitely not a baby as the process takes years they'll be nearly 3 at the youngest for most people. They also don't let you adopt black children into completely white families. If it does happen in anyway you've got to have links to their culture and know their language for example. The American system seems to lack any consideration of child development and attachment theory 😢
@@justinatkins737I know you mean well by this comment, but the experience of a foster youth adoptee and an infant adoptee is very different. Similar in some ways but different. To some of us that loss of identity like names and knowing where you came from does affect your ability to find that sense of self.
What a great episode. Not to dump another adoption story, but my mom was adopted (in the 50’s). We finally found her birth mom on a DNA site, but found her about 3 months after she passed away. Her only “research interest” on her page was the place and year my mom was born. She was looking for my mom. It breaks my heart that we will never get to meet her. She was also mentally ill, but her family says it was easily treated and she lived pretty extraordinary life. I hate it for all involved that she didn’t get to find my mom while she was alive, that my mom never got to even meet her, and that it created so much pain/confusion through my family. Thank you for touching on the topic abortion. For some reason people are thrown off by the idea that adoptees would be pro-choice. I’m thrown off by the idea that there are people in this world that can’t see the issues with the adoption industry.
I'm not and I'm adopted maybe I got one that actually cared. I have no interest in meeting my bio mother though she is looking for me for she is a drugee who gave me up for smoking a cig. I'm glad I got to live. And no I never had ANY connection to my bio "mom" I was connected with my mother not my bio. When the social services would pick me up from my mom to bring me to my bio they would have to pry me off her and would scream and cry the whole visit with my bios so much I made myself sick which proves to me my bio's delusions about how meeting me is a good idea, again I'm down with being friends if she brings fruit for forgiveness and realize its not going to be an easy process and there will be tears and screaming matches but not calling her my mother that role is taken and if she isn't willing to put the work in and actually prove to me she's not who she was then absolutely not. Tell me how she would think I hadn't chose my mother over her when when my bio had only seen me as a baby and I was always screaming and crying and sometimes even the visit had to be cancelled due to social workers' fears I would cry myself to death if I would have been taken to see her? Its foolishness to think she stood a chance against my mother.
@@cherrycrabbitrabbit She was a smoker also she smoked stuff other then tobacco and weed while pregnant with me, she'd rather have a smoke of any substance then to take care of me. I don't think anymore she wanted to abort me and think it was kind-of planned but her "husband" was so old and she was too young to realize what that entails and I've got taken away because of it like immediately due to her making that comment. Yes she smoked cigarettes and drug-based substances as well from my understanding.
A lot of disabled people are also told to be grateful that they didn’t end up in a home or a facility or in foster care which is absolutely terrible! Part of making the decision to get pregnant or keep a pregnancy is knowing that things could go wrong or that your child could be disabled. You don’t need to be grateful for your parents deciding to keep you! It’s just so sad that people are told to be grateful for what they have when what they have is really just the bare minimum any child should have
@@dianehammons3785i noticed that. They talk about how they s aved this child and to give them a chance at life arent we great people. All about them being not about the child.
Adoption can work out. It's possible to end up in a great family. That still doesn't make it an alternative to abortion. Too many people view it as the way to END abortions. It is not. There are already far too many children in the system as it is, and it creates a lifetime of trauma for the adoptee. Abortion is a far better alternative than adoption. And before anyone comes at me with: "how would you feel if you'd been aborted instead of adopted?" Let me just set that record straight: If I had been aborted instead of adopted I would not feel anything today because I would not exist. Do I like my life now? Sure. Am I happy? Absolutely. But I honestly would have preferred to have not grown up knowing that my birth parents didn't want me (which is a partial lie I was fed to make me happy I was adopted anyway). I would have preferred not having a brain that was literally traumatized the moment I was born by not allowing me any physical contact with the woman who I spent 9 months growing inside and listening to. Adoption, even when it happens to an infant, causes trauma to the child. There is no circumstance where you will not have a child that is trauma free from going through an adoption. Even in cases where the parents legit should not have their child (which don't even get me started on how many kids don't need to be taken from their parents) and adoption is the best option available for the child, those children still end up with trauma. This trauma is exactly why adoptees who advocate for a better system need people to understand: Adoption is NOT an alternative to abortion. Full stop. And society need to learn this lesson.
I wasn't morman, but in my sect of Christianity I fully believed an unborn baby could go to hell if the fetus didn't accept Jesus in their undeveloped heart. Which is WILD, but was also a huge part of the reason I was so against abortion so long. It's been eye opening to me learning about how much adoption can hurt the adoptee, but really important to taking down some of those notions and coming at these complex issues with more compassion. Thank you so much for sharing your story.
@@moni-w9oright but neither is OP's. It's important to listen to all adoptees, and also people who wished they could be adopted out because they're family of origin was abusive. Unfortunately, entitlement and abuse comes from all directions. Nobody should treat a child like property, but so many of our laws in the U.S. function to allow that. Whether it is messed up adoption laws allowing profiteering and trafficking or "parents rights" laws with giant, dangerous gaps allowing so much child abuse to be hidden. Children are people, not property. Period. But until child rights laws reflecting that are enshrined in every state, both "adoption" trafficking and abuse under the guise of "parents rights" will continue unchecked.
Tara dealing with racist people on her mission and also being told to turn away from people of her own race who were trying to help her is particularly heartbreaking. She had no one on her side because she was trapped between all these different worlds
This was so powerful and important! I really appreciate being able to hear her story with brutal honesty and all the emotions. Petition for Zelph to put tissues on the desk, though hahaah.
I'm a therapist who works for an agency that primarily takes foster care and adoption cases (in Utah, so lots of ties to Mormonism in many of these cases). We strive for reunification with bio family whenever possible and safe for the children. Just the separation from biological primary caregivers can be so traumatic for a child. There's so much nuance and often pain in these situations, but it seems like a lot of people just think adoption is this beautiful wonderful thing, especially in a culture where having a lot of kids and raising kids in the "true gospel" is such a value and a priority. Adoption can be beautiful and necessary, AND there's also a lot of loss, trauma, and attachment difficulties that go along with it. Hearing your story and seeing your emotions talking about this was so valuable. I really appreciate you being vulnerable and sharing your story and insights with us. ❤
As someone who is trying to adopt in Europe (in Belgium specifically) I find it strange that the loss, trauma, attachment issues, etc are not talked about within the adoption process. Here the first step in the process is a 3 day class, which is heavily focused on the needs of the child, understanding trauma and attachment issues, understanding additional needs of adopted children (which range from health issues or disabilities to things like delayed development, malnutrition or trauma), understanding one’s own strengths and weaknesses as a potential parent and making a space for the birth family (even if there is no connection / communication, as it’s part of the child’s story). The emphasis is very much on the needs of the child and what is best for the child, not what the adopted parents want. And that’s just the first step in the process here, before one can start the process to get approved by the court as a potential adoptive parent.
It wasn't for me but I never knew my "bio primary caregivers" they screwed up real early so that could also be it, I had no pain because I was with who I knew my whole life as my mother.
@@s.a.4358 Foster parents have to do similar training here in order to get their license, and there are additional supports and ongoing trainings offered to families who have adopted through foster care. But as far as I know, those classes and trainings aren't required when it's a private adoption.
@@anonymous5me we don’t have private adoption here. I think the process is easier when it is the adoption of a known child (inter-family for example) especially if there is already a close bond with the child, but the adoptive parent(s) still need to go through the whole accreditation process. We also do not have ‘foster to adopt’ because the preference is always to keep the connection with the birth family / parent. The child may be taken away if the parents are not seen as fit parents, and may even grow up in a foster family from birth, but the parental rights would only be taken away in really extreme situation. Otherwise the parents really need to indicate that they wish to give up the child for adoption, but it’s not necessary encouraged.
I'm from Utah County, parents were 16/18 and got married before I was born.. neither should have been parents and DCFS finally got involved when I was 16... when I got pregnant at 17 I was told that my only options were adoption or to place the baby with LDS family services.. so when I chose to try and keep the baby on my own I was left with zero support from my family to the point that they helped his dad get custody of him... When I got pregnant again at 19 and got married to the guy he turned out to be super abusive in private... When I finally tried to leave him my family did the same thing and he ended up with her and me with no visitation rights. There is much more to my story, but that's the relevant part... it does turn out okay... but mostly because I learned how far my family went to betray me.. and also because my kids are all adults now and I feel like we have a strong relationship. I have a 3rd child who I managed to keep custody of and raise, and then when my oldest were teens I got custody when they became rebellious (aka: traumatized and in survival mode). Anyway, I realized recently that these things fell into place because my family (and the church) believes that a single mom can't raise a child- but as a single mom of 3 wonderful children I never needed anyone else to make me and my children a family. I don't need a spouse or a priesthood holder.. but oh what could have been had my family supported me as much as my exes family's supported them.
I just heard Tara’s Mormon story so this is the perfect time to hear more. I explained to my kids that their adoptions did cost money but it is to pay the attorney, pay for back ground checks, travel, home studies, citizenship papers, the money isn’t going to the birth family like they are bought. We did not go through Mormon services but I know Mormon families that went through our agency. There is trafficking so it is important to do your homework on the process so you can see nefarious practices.
Phenomenal interview. Thank you, Tara, for sharing your story and thank you Sam and Tanner for providing a platform and being such gracious hosts and excellent interviewers.
It's very interesting that when she talks about the receiving parents in an adoption Tara uses language like "bought" and "sold," but when she talks about the giving parents she uses "placed." Maybe this is tied into a subtext of birth parents historically being pressured into adoption without informed consent? Maybe not. In either case it really says a lot about her feelings towards adoption and family. These conversations are so important and I'm encouraged to see more adoptee voices amplified!
I'm about to upset you and don't mean anything wrong with it but I'm an adopted person(don't call me an adoptee) who would dance on my bio mother's grave and make a shrine of my real mother. Does my voice matter? Or is it just the negative ones?
Adoption agencies make money from adoptions not the bio parents. If yoy can't afford to pay an adoption agency you can't adopt children that aren't related to you in some way. i.e. grandchildren, nieces, nephews, or younger siblings. It's very rare that even a biological cousin can adopt a child from their own blood relations, unless they can afford to pay for the adoption process.
@@julialaird3881 a lot of birth parents are put under enormous pressure, and agencies have some extremely aggressive, and unethical ways of procurement. Like say if the mother backs out of the adoption ( you can relinquish a child legally until it’s born) she I. The hook for all the medical bills and fees for this and that and is going to owe restitution to the couple, or provide if her a counselor or therapist then because the therapist works for them they can use what ever she told them against her in violation of dr patient confidentiality, and tell her they will use that information in court. Or make it public knowledge. It’s wild…
My mother was adopted and fought her demons her entire life. She was so strong and so brave, and gave me everything she could to break whatever generational trauma she could break. Her abandonment trauma and borderline personality disorder won in the end, and she took her life in 2018. A lot of what she used to talk about sounded very familiar to what you said. She also had me very young, and a lot of people were pressuring her not to keep me, but she didn't care. She was so afraid someone would take me that she didn’t let me out of her sight for a second until my second year of life. I came into showers with her, slept right next to her bed, and came with her to her nursing school interview. A lot of negative patterns came from that, but it wasn't really her fault. And she saved me from the trauma of adoption. This gave me a lot to think about. Thank you for posting.
Its probably not as clear but trauma from adoption can follow onto the children of the adoptees if not addressed. My mum was a consolation prize adoptee and she has significant issues with forming and keeping appropriate connections with people including her own children. I had a moment of clarity relating to the fact that Whitney said she felt alien with a biological child. There are some issues that I have with my mum about her inherent selfishness but there is a minefield of experiences, where she was super fertile and my nan was not. Plus she only knew her brother as a biological relative. Its hard to sometimes parse her reactions and behaviours and they are not pleasant to deal with sometimes but yeah the sting of adoption is there even with the passing of time and generations if not addressed.
I'm adopted, too. Hearing someone else say that at first they felt like their baby wasnt theirs, and they were just a babysitter.... I never knew I wasn't alone in that (My kids are teenagers now, and we have a wonderful relationship 💜). Adoptee stories are hardly told outside of the 'you must feel so greatful' lens. And when that adoptee becomes a parent, we're just suppost to have this extra strong bond with our child. But noone talkes about the moorlessness we can feel, or the utter fear that there is some genetic illness that we could have passed on. No, it's all suppose to be all rainbows and glitter farts, and poster stories for pro-life campains. We get stripped away as a person to become a concept.
1:12:27 this makes me appreciate where I live so much more, things like that covered here. When you go to the Public Health Centre to get the baby/toddler vaccinations, they also check in on how they’re developing with speech and other milestones, so they can refer you to additional services. Then schools do it after that. When I had a lisp, I got free speech therapy in elementary school. I would get pulled out of class for a bit to work with a speech therapist and then I’d have to practice reading out loud at home. I’m so grateful for them for facilitating that.
Also exists in the US. I'm an in-home early intervention speech therapist. If you feel your toddler is not speaking appropriately, the state will pay professionals to conduct therapy at your house. In school speech therapy is also free.
Babies are bought…. Wow… I’m adopted. 1950, but a private adoption. I have no idea how much my parents paid the attorney for my adoption. I went home at 2 days old. But both families were LDS although my biological family was very inactive. Thanks for this. I don’t have Instagram or Tik Tok. Do you know which episode of Mormon Stories she was on?
I was a convert to the church at age 22. My xhusband now refused to join but didn't stop me. I experienced my 2nd miscarriage a couple weeks after my baptism. Well 23rd birthday exactly hubby became x hubby. I moved back to my home city with our 3 yr old daughter shortly after. Over the next few years I went on 1 date with someone I met at a singles event. I went through the temple at 25ish. But then I met a man from Africa, I'm white, who was playing around and ended up pregnant aa at age 27 as a single mother. That baby is now 26 and the biggest comfort to me his mother. Thanks for bringing up the Bishop pressure on pregnant single mothers. Looking back, I didn't realise at the time, but my bishop did try unsuccessfully to push me to adoption. I was asked all the time about it. No way was I giving up my baby, I lost 2 to miscarriage and wasn't losing anymore. I stared e erybody down from the word jump regarding my son. At no time have I ever regretted keeping him. The church is really fuc$ed up.
Thank you so much for sharing! I was talking with my Uber driver this morning about your story. We both felt very out of place in our families. She was a foster kid and I was abused by my bio family…. We all go through hard things and it’s wonderful to hear the side of someone that was adopted… and knowing that it wasn’t easy for you either. 💜 again thank you. I’m rooting for you. You’re awesome.
Thank you Zelph for covering this. I’ve been BEGGING exmo creators to start talking about adoption and Mormonism. Tara is amazing! ❤ another exmo adoptee (bought child)
I am from Germany and I am fairly certain that you can't legally make the decision to give your child up for adoption until it is born, which I think should be the norm.
Amazing interview. This is the first time I have more fully understood the structural problems with adoption. Poor people’s babies are being purchased by rich people rather than the culture supporting all mothers. Stealing babies is one of the arms of colonialism so of course you feared your baby would be stolen. Thanks for your authenticity. This interview will help people.
It's so important for exmos to talk about not liking being pregnant. I hated being pregnant. Also had those feelings about this is what heaven is? I think so many of us keep sweet because we've been told stories about how wonderful it is to be co creating with "God". And then it's horrible the Mormon expectations make it worse.
1:37:10 its interesting because i just recently heard a radio program with a group of Somali people discussing mental health and someone said something along the lines of, "we know that mental health struggles here are actually worse than being in the civil war because we were more connected to community." Im sure there's more nuance to that, but that blew my mind and made me feel not so guilty by comparing my struggles
Tara's Mormon Stories interview is in my top ten. Thanks for doing a deep-dive on mental health and finding yourself outside of antiquated gender norms
WHOA that's so true for me as well that a big part of Mormon mindset was just doing everything the opposite of what I wanted to do. My own desires were all incredibly suspect. I did the same process of doing some mild partying as a teen while feeling incredibly guilty like I was living a double life, and then getting SUPER Mormon after high school. Peak Mormonism for me was ages 18-25 or so.
So weird. I had a family in my South Jordan ward who, when i knew them (in the early 90's), had three adopted kids and the youngest was a one year old girl who was black. I babysat for them once. I think the oldest was a girl who was red headed. But our ward split and i didn't know anything about them after that. I guess I'm wondering if that was Tara i babysat. If not, that is a crazy coincidence.
I'm going to be honest and I hope I am heard because I haven't been heard about this a lot in my life. I am a survivor of child trafficking. I was trafficked BECAUSE nobody wanted to adopt and nobody cares about homeless children, neglected children, or orphans. And they often end up trafficked because of this. If you want to adopt, there are plenty of street kids nobody even looks at and they need loving homes. You can save a life if you're capable. And contrary to popular belief, a lot of those children are so desperate for love and so desperate to please that they wouldn't be nearly as difficult as people assume. It is the same reason they're so vulnerable to traffickers. A child's brain needs that support. Just look down. Save lives. And for the love of God, anytime anyone mentions adoption please stop going out of your way to say it isn't the right choice for everyone. We already know. It is the last option for most people and children are suffering and dying. The existence of orphans isn't an attack on your choices, but when you do that all those children hear is that they aren't deserving of love or family. They're children. I would know. I was there.
I'm from Ireland where there was a lot of adoption as a fix all for the lapses in "morality" or "purity" on behalf of those girls who found themselves pregnant and alone in a religion and culture that like Mormonism saw nothing but marriage as the societal norm. The girls took the "blame" and the guys went on with their lives. Even the adoption was clouded with secrecy and often exploitation. On the other hand in that era society would never have helped or supported those single mothers and their families threw them out and the religious mother n baby homes at least took them in. Life was hugely different. Today in Ireland single parenthood is so accepted there is government help and no one bats an eye. From the viewpoint of an adoptive mother whom I had as a friend for over 30 years I watched her and her husband give two children a great home love affection and open hearts to these two children. My friend never wanted to find out about her past she was happy in her present her brother had immense problems which his adoptive mum blamed herself for and in my opinion she shouldn't have taken on that blame. So this is quite the minefield and is so personal different and unique to each individual. At least today the Catholuc Church here and general society hasn't such an iron grip on people's bodies and minds and people are able to live their lives their way. My mum was a stay at home mum but had to give up her job when she got married. Even though she didn't work afterwards she kept up her interest in her nursing career and graduated twice from college with diplomas in nursing which she completed in middle age with no 3rd level education. She used this to help her family to advise and council her friends and family and organization's. She remained strong and solid to her last despite restrictions from society and religion. She was a true partner in her63 year marriage and opinionated till the end. So there are exceptions to every rule. Cc Ireland well done to this lady for her honesty and happy new year all🎉
Your friends children are biological siblings? Two extremely common trauma response for adoptees is to become a people pleaser so you do anything anyone wants of you to make sure the don’t abandon you, and acting act trying f to test the people around you to see if when things get tough if they will abandon you or not.
Your friends children are biological siblings? Two extremely common trauma response for adoptees is to become a people pleaser so you do anything anyone wants of you to make sure the don’t abandon you, and acting act trying f to test the people around you to see if when things get tough if they will abandon you or not.
This will not bring consolation but it needs to be said...even people that had biological families are abandoned. Many of us had to raise ourselves. Poverty kept both parents at work. Addiction/alcoholism kept parents unavailable. Not having guidance kept us alienated from others because we have no idea what is normal or ok. Please be good medicine for each other. We are all alone, together❤
Actually this did not need to be said. The loneliness felt by people with biological families will never be the same as the loneliness felt by an adoptee. What you just said is akin to saying "all lives matter" when someone says "black lives matter."
@CyrynDragoon What YOU said needed to be said lmao, I came to say the same thing. My trauma as a neglected youth with bio ties is NOT the same to the isolation and trauma experienced by adoptees. Tf kind of comparison.
You’re not wrong about people who aren’t adopted still being/feeling abandoned. However I don’t think this was the time or place. It’s like when women are talking about the systemic abuse they face and men chime in with “well men get raped too!” It’s true and it needs to be addressed. But you’re making a problem that’s not about you, about you.
I’m sorry, what are you trying to say here? That either you are able to have biological kids or sucks to suck? Adoption is just human trafficking? That’s ridiculous, just because you aren’t raised by biological parents doesn’t mean you can’t have a good life. My dad was adopted and he’s lived an excellent life, and he’s glad to exist. Just because someone can pop out a baby does not mean they are the best person to parent that baby.
Did you know the reason several states have a cap on how much life insurance can be taken out on minors is because so many people adopted children to murder for the insurance check. And at the turn of the century adoption meant you where now the servant of the family that has adopted you. They had use of the adopted child to their mid twenties I think 24. I’m glad your dad landed in a good place but adoptees “self delete” at four times the rate of the rest of the population, they are more prone to mental illness and substance problems, and are murdered by their caregivers at 8 times the rest of the population, and can be rehomed on face book. For the vast majority adoption has not been the blessing it promises.
I've already commented but I should make this clear, if what I commented or replied about offended anyone I didn't mean anything I just have extremely strong opinions on adoption. I recognize adoption can be done wrong but I was adopted almost perfectly by a mother who I feel was God-appointed to be my mother. I had no connection to my bio mom but I had and have a deep connection with my mother so much so that if she dies I would fall into a deep depression while if my bio mom dies and somehow someway I find out about it I would treat it like a stranger dying: sad for the family but I am not her family and don't know her and what I was told about her she wasn't the best person. I pretty much chose my mother, be it the natural body accepted her or my spirit accepted her that's up to you, she didn't choose me.
Another adoptee chiming in here. I also have no relationship with my bio family other than an uncle and his wife. I’m also very glad I was not raised by either side of my biological family and love my adoptive family. Our experience is not common. We are the outliers in most adoptive situations. And even if we have amazing, kind, compassionate adoptive parents that doesn’t lessen any trauma we had from the initial separation, as babies can’t understand or process that separation like an adult can. I’m really glad your experience was a good one but please remember when we’re in spaces with people who are talking about trauma and adoption that it’s important to be respectful and validating of their story rather than making a blanket “adoption worked out well for me” kind of statement. You are in fact, the minority. And it’s important for those of us who got lucky to hold space and mourn with those who were not as lucky.
@Cosmically_Forsaken Yeah I agree but there is one problem. I have no trauma from the initial separation mainly because the first person to hold me was my mom not my bio. I am 100% removed from any attachment to my bio mom I don't even consider her my real mom I consider my mom my mom and a lot of the "adoption leads to trauma" is due to public opinion and the parents keeping it a secret and the adoptive parent not fully claiming them, my mother 100% claimed me, my family 100% claimed me and saw me not as their adoptive child but their real child. Think about it, if you are adopted as a baby you would have no memory of your bio family but with god-forsaken jokes like "YoUr AdOpTeD" or "NoBoDy WaNtS yOu fOr YoUr AdOpTed" being thrown around that creates fake trauma that didn't exist, could there be trauma? Yes absolutely especially if its older children. Maybe I am blindsided by my own experience that I never had any separation trauma and claimed my mother the moment I met her. Edit: I should clarify that I was in foster system and never actually knew my bio family. I did have separation trauma but the other way around, when the social worker would come to get me to visit my bio mom they had to pry me from my mother's arms and I would scream and cry until I returned home and a visit went on for hours so much so that at times the visit with my bios had to be cancelled because I would cry so much they worried I would die from crying myself to death. In my young eyes(at the time) I was being taken away from my mother and taken to a stranger's house in my mind my adoptive mother was my real mother and my bio mother was the stranger
@justinatkins737 my godmother is an adoptee who has had to fully cut off both her bio family and adoptive family because they're both extremely abusive in different ways. I'm glad your experience is different, but most experiences aren't good. It's still human trafficking. It's still a net negative on a national and even somewhat global scale. Anecdotal evidence cannot erase substantiated data.
Not even halfway in (and I’m white) but there’s SO much of what Tara is saying that I get. My son was the first biological family I ever met. The connection was there for me but my trauma showed by being hyper anxious that he would be taken from me for literally no reason. The deregulation, not knowing who I was, feeling like I should be grateful all the time really hit home too. I was even used as a Sunday school object lesson because I was adopted. 🫠 Sorry in advance if I comment a lot I have FEELINGS lol
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I’m from the Netherlands and we have banned adoption from other countries because it’s just unethical. Adoption here doesn’t happen often because we have access to birth control and decent social services. My heart breaks for her
I love this so so much
My uncle by marriage was Navajo and was adopted by a white couple and I didn’t know he had been raised Mormon until we were cleaning out a storage unit and he pulled out a certificate of some kind and laughed. He had a difficult life before he died and I didn’t always understand how he thought about things, but being adopted had a huge influence on his life. I wish things had been easier for him. He was no longer a Mormon and had gone back to connect back with his culture.
I am Choctaw and adopted by white people. I can’t begin to imagine what your uncle went through. I have been “othered” all my days, but a lot of people just never had me on their radar. Growing up I always felt relatively safe, safe as any other kid in my class. I don’t think he would have had a moments peace growing up in a morman community.
My (step-)grandfather is Cree, and I didn’t realize until I was like 16 that he was a sixties scoop kid. He was taken before he even learned to talk. The people who “adopted” him didn’t even teach him English, he grew up speaking *Dutch.* He was the only native kid he knew growing up, and by the time he managed to track down what was left of his blood family, half of them didn’t even want him anymore. It was very sad.
I never really questioned why none of the rest of my family looked like him growing up. He was the only (maternal) grandpa I’d ever known, so he was and still is *my grandpa,* no questions needed. Still, I can remember when it hit me; the fact that I’d never met any of his family, the fact that he was the only native person in my family, the fact his surname is “Ward”… the timelines of it all… it was the first time I had visited them since learning about the Scoop.
I was adopted out late (age 9), but allowed contact with my bio grandparents due to it being a private contract. Six months before my grandma passed, she told me she had to confess something to me, that she couldn't go to heaven with this sin on her soul.
My grandfather's medical bills had put them into debt so deep they were going to lose their house, and I was special needs but they couldn't afford the care I needed; they sold me to a childless woman in the community for cash in an envelope. I was told it was $10k, but there's no way to know for sure. There's no one left alive for me to ask.
I don't care what their motivations were; anyone who buys or sells a child is committing an act of Evil. There is no excuse. My grandmother understood the weight of what they did; she's the only one who's ever apologized to me. The only one who ever admitted their crime.
Omg I’m so angry she had the audacity to say such a thing to you!!! If it’s true she should have taken that to her grave. And if it wasn’t true why on earth would you make that up. Like you don’t have enough to think about in the wee hours of the morning. Everyone on the planet has their cross to bare, but in th case of the adoptees it always end is they have to carry not only their cross but the crosses of so many others as well. I’m sorry that happened to you.
Damn, you're a real miracle 💕
I can relate to that so much. I am so sorry. My bio dad had drug debts and was going to go to jail for stolen credit card and he went to my parents. (Mom and Step Dad) and they paid him money to stay away.
The "mormon 21 is like real world 16" is so fucking real tho.
My Wife lost her Niece and Nephew, ages 3 and 6 To LDS Family Services. My Sister in law was incarcerated for drug possession and so she signed her parental rights over to the Oldest Sister Jazmine. Jasmine had no intention to keep the children and secretly sold them to a wealthy LDS family for a decent sum of money. Through the 1 year adoption process, the kids were brought to birthday parties and other family holidays and nobody knew they were getting sold… This was 6 years ago and the mother of the children took her own life after being out and clean for 3 years. Really got her life together but couldn’t cope with not having her babies. The eldest sister has been disowned by the family since but that was only after she took all the donations from the funeral go fund me proceeds and left Utah… She is still very much an active member of the church lol. Story is crazy but 100 percent true. Love the LDS church so much I won’t touch it with a 100 ft pole.
Really sorry for your loss.
If you're comfortable sharing, do you know how "formal" of a process it was? I hate to word it like that, but I'm just wondering how these kinds of "adoptions" (or sales) of babies are able to happen under the radar. I'm so sorry for yours and your wife's family 🙏
@ no problem. ya so i can’t speak for all LDS adoptions but in our case, the adopting family was known to the Sister in law somehow. Might have been in the same stake (which explains why it was so easy to have the kids appear at social gatherings) or someone within the stake knew the family. Either way, LDS services didn’t take anything probably other than fees to pay for the adoption but my sister in law was paid under the table for her troubles if you will. Nice car and nice clothes suddenly you get the picture. The children were highly sought after being Native American… Now they live a good life I imagine and the oldest will be ready to go on a mission in a few years but hopefully he looks for us to reunite. Who knows. My biggest gripe is the church didn’t reach out to anyone as far as biological family to see if they had any or if something was up. I find it terrible that they would just hawk 2 children without question or an investigation. They would have found an entire tribe willing to love them and take care of them but instead they turned a blind eye.
@@polybear08did they go to a white family because that’s illegal. ICCWA has been violated and legally they should be placed first with family, second other members of the same nation, and then with another nation if they cannot be taken in by their own people. There’s a number of additional steps to go through because of “ICCWA”
@@polybear08your family was skipped over so if you wanted to you could probably get that adoption over turned, because ITS NOT LEGAL. Talk to a lawyer familiar with Native American issues or the tribal elders.
I'm from Brazil and the adoption process is COMPLETELY different. The first time I was exposed to how your adoption system worked I was absolutely shocked. It really is human trafficking that was legalized.
I've seen couple times American couples adopting foreign children (nothing inherently bad about it) who just casually changed their child's name. Not their surname but first name. It's so crazy but nobody around them seems to understand that
I live in Poland so this idea of child snatching and basically rewriting their identity hits close home to me. Happened a lot during WWII, happens today during the Russo-Ukrainian war
If I wanted to adopt a foreign kid then I would learn their language and strive to keep them connected to their culture. That's common sense for me
I live in Belgium and we are trying to adopt, and it’s also a completely different process. First of all it’s a very long process with taking classes, assessment by a psychologist, home assessments, even before one gets approved to adopt at all, which gets approved by a judge. Only after that can one start the actual adoption process, which can also take years before there is a match on a child. It’s also very rare to adopt a baby or young child, as putting a child for adoption is not prioritised as a solution to an unwanted pregnancy (abortion is legal but we also have a good social system). Unlike in the USA it’s very rare that parental rights are taken away from birth parents (it really needs to be an extreme case). It can often happen that a child lives with foster parents almost their whole childhood but is never adopted (fostering to adopt doesn’t exist) because children may get taken away from their birth parents but they still keep parental rights, contact with the parents is encouraged, etc as much as possible.
@@angelikaskoroszyn8495 I was adopted thru the foster care system. LET ME GET THIS THING CLEAR its not names or raising that determines identity its your own self. I am glad I don't share my bio parents name and is working on changing even my adoptive name. I am not a Riley(bio name) nor am I an Atkins I am a Russel my mothers(my real mother the one who raised me and sacrificed for me not the bio one who just gave birth to me) family's name. The caps aren't to hate on you by the way
@@s.a.4358the UK system is similar to Belgium by the sounds of it, takes years so many assments and rare to get a young child and definitely not a baby as the process takes years they'll be nearly 3 at the youngest for most people. They also don't let you adopt black children into completely white families. If it does happen in anyway you've got to have links to their culture and know their language for example. The American system seems to lack any consideration of child development and attachment theory 😢
@@justinatkins737I know you mean well by this comment, but the experience of a foster youth adoptee and an infant adoptee is very different. Similar in some ways but different. To some of us that loss of identity like names and knowing where you came from does affect your ability to find that sense of self.
What a great episode. Not to dump another adoption story, but my mom was adopted (in the 50’s). We finally found her birth mom on a DNA site, but found her about 3 months after she passed away. Her only “research interest” on her page was the place and year my mom was born. She was looking for my mom. It breaks my heart that we will never get to meet her. She was also mentally ill, but her family says it was easily treated and she lived pretty extraordinary life. I hate it for all involved that she didn’t get to find my mom while she was alive, that my mom never got to even meet her, and that it created so much pain/confusion through my family. Thank you for touching on the topic abortion. For some reason people are thrown off by the idea that adoptees would be pro-choice. I’m thrown off by the idea that there are people in this world that can’t see the issues with the adoption industry.
💔♥️♥️
I'm not and I'm adopted maybe I got one that actually cared. I have no interest in meeting my bio mother though she is looking for me for she is a drugee who gave me up for smoking a cig. I'm glad I got to live. And no I never had ANY connection to my bio "mom" I was connected with my mother not my bio. When the social services would pick me up from my mom to bring me to my bio they would have to pry me off her and would scream and cry the whole visit with my bios so much I made myself sick which proves to me my bio's delusions about how meeting me is a good idea, again I'm down with being friends if she brings fruit for forgiveness and realize its not going to be an easy process and there will be tears and screaming matches but not calling her my mother that role is taken and if she isn't willing to put the work in and actually prove to me she's not who she was then absolutely not. Tell me how she would think I hadn't chose my mother over her when when my bio had only seen me as a baby and I was always screaming and crying and sometimes even the visit had to be cancelled due to social workers' fears I would cry myself to death if I would have been taken to see her? Its foolishness to think she stood a chance against my mother.
What do you mean smoking a cig that part confused me
@@cherrycrabbitrabbit She was a smoker also she smoked stuff other then tobacco and weed while pregnant with me, she'd rather have a smoke of any substance then to take care of me. I don't think anymore she wanted to abort me and think it was kind-of planned but her "husband" was so old and she was too young to realize what that entails and I've got taken away because of it like immediately due to her making that comment. Yes she smoked cigarettes and drug-based substances as well from my understanding.
@@cherrycrabbitrabbit I was thru the foster care system if that helps put two and two together
A lot of disabled people are also told to be grateful that they didn’t end up in a home or a facility or in foster care which is absolutely terrible! Part of making the decision to get pregnant or keep a pregnancy is knowing that things could go wrong or that your child could be disabled. You don’t need to be grateful for your parents deciding to keep you! It’s just so sad that people are told to be grateful for what they have when what they have is really just the bare minimum any child should have
Honestly all adopted kids are expected to be great full. Great full and respectful of all the adults involved.
@@dianehammons3785i noticed that. They talk about how they s aved this child and to give them a chance at life arent we great people. All about them being not about the child.
That “it’s not if you have mental health struggles but when” so powerful.
As a fellow exmo who was adopted... let's just say this to everyone:
Adoption is NOT an alternative to abortion.
Thank you for sharing.
Adoption can work out. It's possible to end up in a great family.
That still doesn't make it an alternative to abortion.
Too many people view it as the way to END abortions. It is not. There are already far too many children in the system as it is, and it creates a lifetime of trauma for the adoptee.
Abortion is a far better alternative than adoption.
And before anyone comes at me with: "how would you feel if you'd been aborted instead of adopted?" Let me just set that record straight:
If I had been aborted instead of adopted I would not feel anything today because I would not exist. Do I like my life now? Sure. Am I happy? Absolutely. But I honestly would have preferred to have not grown up knowing that my birth parents didn't want me (which is a partial lie I was fed to make me happy I was adopted anyway). I would have preferred not having a brain that was literally traumatized the moment I was born by not allowing me any physical contact with the woman who I spent 9 months growing inside and listening to.
Adoption, even when it happens to an infant, causes trauma to the child. There is no circumstance where you will not have a child that is trauma free from going through an adoption. Even in cases where the parents legit should not have their child (which don't even get me started on how many kids don't need to be taken from their parents) and adoption is the best option available for the child, those children still end up with trauma.
This trauma is exactly why adoptees who advocate for a better system need people to understand: Adoption is NOT an alternative to abortion. Full stop. And society need to learn this lesson.
Another exmo who was adopted, I second this
Anyone who thinks so is willingly ignorant af. Babies aren't toys to be passed around 😢
I wasn't morman, but in my sect of Christianity I fully believed an unborn baby could go to hell if the fetus didn't accept Jesus in their undeveloped heart. Which is WILD, but was also a huge part of the reason I was so against abortion so long.
It's been eye opening to me learning about how much adoption can hurt the adoptee, but really important to taking down some of those notions and coming at these complex issues with more compassion. Thank you so much for sharing your story.
Didn't hurt me I was adopted and will adopt myself(through the foster care system both things)
@@justinatkins737great but the fact is that a lot of children are harmed in the system, your experiences are not universal
@@moni-w9oright but neither is OP's. It's important to listen to all adoptees, and also people who wished they could be adopted out because they're family of origin was abusive.
Unfortunately, entitlement and abuse comes from all directions. Nobody should treat a child like property, but so many of our laws in the U.S. function to allow that. Whether it is messed up adoption laws allowing profiteering and trafficking or "parents rights" laws with giant, dangerous gaps allowing so much child abuse to be hidden.
Children are people, not property. Period. But until child rights laws reflecting that are enshrined in every state, both "adoption" trafficking and abuse under the guise of "parents rights" will continue unchecked.
Tara dealing with racist people on her mission and also being told to turn away from people of her own race who were trying to help her is particularly heartbreaking. She had no one on her side because she was trapped between all these different worlds
Thank you so much for doing this episode. The US adoption system is fully legalized human trafficking.
I can't believe how so many people want to get rid of welfare. I'd probably die without it.
As a European, where social welfare is normal and accepted, I also don’t understand how anyone could find it a bad thing.
@@s.a.4358 Isn't it crazy that looking out for people is morally unacceptable to like half of the us?
Tara's anger is so therapeutic for me. She's so right to be angry about all this stuff
This was so powerful and important! I really appreciate being able to hear her story with brutal honesty and all the emotions. Petition for Zelph to put tissues on the desk, though hahaah.
GREAT IDEA implementing immediately
I'm a therapist who works for an agency that primarily takes foster care and adoption cases (in Utah, so lots of ties to Mormonism in many of these cases). We strive for reunification with bio family whenever possible and safe for the children. Just the separation from biological primary caregivers can be so traumatic for a child. There's so much nuance and often pain in these situations, but it seems like a lot of people just think adoption is this beautiful wonderful thing, especially in a culture where having a lot of kids and raising kids in the "true gospel" is such a value and a priority. Adoption can be beautiful and necessary, AND there's also a lot of loss, trauma, and attachment difficulties that go along with it. Hearing your story and seeing your emotions talking about this was so valuable. I really appreciate you being vulnerable and sharing your story and insights with us. ❤
As someone who is trying to adopt in Europe (in Belgium specifically) I find it strange that the loss, trauma, attachment issues, etc are not talked about within the adoption process. Here the first step in the process is a 3 day class, which is heavily focused on the needs of the child, understanding trauma and attachment issues, understanding additional needs of adopted children (which range from health issues or disabilities to things like delayed development, malnutrition or trauma), understanding one’s own strengths and weaknesses as a potential parent and making a space for the birth family (even if there is no connection / communication, as it’s part of the child’s story). The emphasis is very much on the needs of the child and what is best for the child, not what the adopted parents want. And that’s just the first step in the process here, before one can start the process to get approved by the court as a potential adoptive parent.
It wasn't for me but I never knew my "bio primary caregivers" they screwed up real early so that could also be it, I had no pain because I was with who I knew my whole life as my mother.
@@s.a.4358 Foster parents have to do similar training here in order to get their license, and there are additional supports and ongoing trainings offered to families who have adopted through foster care. But as far as I know, those classes and trainings aren't required when it's a private adoption.
@@anonymous5me we don’t have private adoption here. I think the process is easier when it is the adoption of a known child (inter-family for example) especially if there is already a close bond with the child, but the adoptive parent(s) still need to go through the whole accreditation process. We also do not have ‘foster to adopt’ because the preference is always to keep the connection with the birth family / parent. The child may be taken away if the parents are not seen as fit parents, and may even grow up in a foster family from birth, but the parental rights would only be taken away in really extreme situation. Otherwise the parents really need to indicate that they wish to give up the child for adoption, but it’s not necessary encouraged.
@@s.a.4358 Mine was necessary trust me
14:05 "Oh no, that's not spirituality, that's like, poor mental health" - both hilarious and harrowing to hear, realizing how true this rings for me 😅
I'm from Utah County, parents were 16/18 and got married before I was born.. neither should have been parents and DCFS finally got involved when I was 16... when I got pregnant at 17 I was told that my only options were adoption or to place the baby with LDS family services.. so when I chose to try and keep the baby on my own I was left with zero support from my family to the point that they helped his dad get custody of him... When I got pregnant again at 19 and got married to the guy he turned out to be super abusive in private... When I finally tried to leave him my family did the same thing and he ended up with her and me with no visitation rights.
There is much more to my story, but that's the relevant part... it does turn out okay... but mostly because I learned how far my family went to betray me.. and also because my kids are all adults now and I feel like we have a strong relationship. I have a 3rd child who I managed to keep custody of and raise, and then when my oldest were teens I got custody when they became rebellious (aka: traumatized and in survival mode).
Anyway, I realized recently that these things fell into place because my family (and the church) believes that a single mom can't raise a child- but as a single mom of 3 wonderful children I never needed anyone else to make me and my children a family. I don't need a spouse or a priesthood holder.. but oh what could have been had my family supported me as much as my exes family's supported them.
I just heard Tara’s Mormon story so this is the perfect time to hear more. I explained to my kids that their adoptions did cost money but it is to pay the attorney, pay for back ground checks, travel, home studies, citizenship papers, the money isn’t going to the birth family like they are bought. We did not go through Mormon services but I know Mormon families that went through our agency. There is trafficking so it is important to do your homework on the process so you can see nefarious practices.
Tara is amazing. One of my favourite Mormon Stories guests. I am so glad you have her as a guest.
loveeee this vibe omg you guys have such good chemistry! thank you to your lovely guest for sharing her story 💕
Phenomenal interview. Thank you, Tara, for sharing your story and thank you Sam and Tanner for providing a platform and being such gracious hosts and excellent interviewers.
It's very interesting that when she talks about the receiving parents in an adoption Tara uses language like "bought" and "sold," but when she talks about the giving parents she uses "placed." Maybe this is tied into a subtext of birth parents historically being pressured into adoption without informed consent? Maybe not. In either case it really says a lot about her feelings towards adoption and family.
These conversations are so important and I'm encouraged to see more adoptee voices amplified!
I'm about to upset you and don't mean anything wrong with it but I'm an adopted person(don't call me an adoptee) who would dance on my bio mother's grave and make a shrine of my real mother. Does my voice matter? Or is it just the negative ones?
@justinatkins737 of course your voice and your experience matters. You matter.
Adoption agencies make money from adoptions not the bio parents. If yoy can't afford to pay an adoption agency you can't adopt children that aren't related to you in some way. i.e. grandchildren, nieces, nephews, or younger siblings. It's very rare that even a biological cousin can adopt a child from their own blood relations, unless they can afford to pay for the adoption process.
@@julialaird3881 a lot of birth parents are put under enormous pressure, and agencies have some extremely aggressive, and unethical ways of procurement. Like say if the mother backs out of the adoption ( you can relinquish a child legally until it’s born) she I. The hook for all the medical bills and fees for this and that and is going to owe restitution to the couple, or provide if her a counselor or therapist then because the therapist works for them they can use what ever she told them against her in violation of dr patient confidentiality, and tell her they will use that information in court. Or make it public knowledge. It’s wild…
My mother was adopted and fought her demons her entire life. She was so strong and so brave, and gave me everything she could to break whatever generational trauma she could break. Her abandonment trauma and borderline personality disorder won in the end, and she took her life in 2018. A lot of what she used to talk about sounded very familiar to what you said. She also had me very young, and a lot of people were pressuring her not to keep me, but she didn't care. She was so afraid someone would take me that she didn’t let me out of her sight for a second until my second year of life. I came into showers with her, slept right next to her bed, and came with her to her nursing school interview. A lot of negative patterns came from that, but it wasn't really her fault. And she saved me from the trauma of adoption. This gave me a lot to think about. Thank you for posting.
Its probably not as clear but trauma from adoption can follow onto the children of the adoptees if not addressed. My mum was a consolation prize adoptee and she has significant issues with forming and keeping appropriate connections with people including her own children. I had a moment of clarity relating to the fact that Whitney said she felt alien with a biological child. There are some issues that I have with my mum about her inherent selfishness but there is a minefield of experiences, where she was super fertile and my nan was not. Plus she only knew her brother as a biological relative. Its hard to sometimes parse her reactions and behaviours and they are not pleasant to deal with sometimes but yeah the sting of adoption is there even with the passing of time and generations if not addressed.
Thank you Tara for sharing. What a powerful story 💗Thanks Sam & Tan for the beautiful conversation also. I hope more people see this.
I'm adopted, too. Hearing someone else say that at first they felt like their baby wasnt theirs, and they were just a babysitter.... I never knew I wasn't alone in that (My kids are teenagers now, and we have a wonderful relationship 💜).
Adoptee stories are hardly told outside of the 'you must feel so greatful' lens.
And when that adoptee becomes a parent, we're just suppost to have this extra strong bond with our child. But noone talkes about the moorlessness we can feel, or the utter fear that there is some genetic illness that we could have passed on.
No, it's all suppose to be all rainbows and glitter farts, and poster stories for pro-life campains. We get stripped away as a person to become a concept.
Wow this is such powerful introspection. What a smart woman.
1:12:27 this makes me appreciate where I live so much more, things like that covered here. When you go to the Public Health Centre to get the baby/toddler vaccinations, they also check in on how they’re developing with speech and other milestones, so they can refer you to additional services. Then schools do it after that. When I had a lisp, I got free speech therapy in elementary school. I would get pulled out of class for a bit to work with a speech therapist and then I’d have to practice reading out loud at home. I’m so grateful for them for facilitating that.
Also exists in the US. I'm an in-home early intervention speech therapist. If you feel your toddler is not speaking appropriately, the state will pay professionals to conduct therapy at your house. In school speech therapy is also free.
Thank you for sharing your truth and how it connects to greater realties. It is very brave of you.
Thank you so much for sharing your story with us 💗
Wow, I was hooked on every word Tara said. A much needed perspective. She's wonderful, I cried when she did! Thank you for the great video!
Babies are bought…. Wow… I’m adopted. 1950, but a private adoption. I have no idea how much my parents paid the attorney for my adoption. I went home at 2 days old. But both families were LDS although my biological family was very inactive. Thanks for this. I don’t have Instagram or Tik Tok. Do you know which episode of Mormon Stories she was on?
Episodes 1856 and 1857. It was nearly a year ago
I believe you can search her name and Mormon Stories on here and it should come up ❤
Tara Herbert part one is episode 1856
Had to immediately follow Tara and her podcast. She's so relatable💜
Thank you for this
I was a convert to the church at age 22. My xhusband now refused to join but didn't stop me. I experienced my 2nd miscarriage a couple weeks after my baptism. Well 23rd birthday exactly hubby became x hubby. I moved back to my home city with our 3 yr old daughter shortly after. Over the next few years I went on 1 date with someone I met at a singles event. I went through the temple at 25ish. But then I met a man from Africa, I'm white, who was playing around and ended up pregnant aa at age 27 as a single mother. That baby is now 26 and the biggest comfort to me his mother. Thanks for bringing up the Bishop pressure on pregnant single mothers. Looking back, I didn't realise at the time, but my bishop did try unsuccessfully to push me to adoption. I was asked all the time about it. No way was I giving up my baby, I lost 2 to miscarriage and wasn't losing anymore. I stared e erybody down from the word jump regarding my son. At no time have I ever regretted keeping him.
The church is really fuc$ed up.
WILD that Whitney was her mission companion!! If it were me i would lead with that in my introduction 😂
This was Great! Tara thank you for sharing your story and being vulnerable. Love you ❤
That was a really good video. Thank you for having Tara.
This was so great. I relate on almost every single level with Tara, and it is so validating.
Wow what a moving story, Tara was an amazing guest!
Thank you so much for sharing! I was talking with my Uber driver this morning about your story. We both felt very out of place in our families. She was a foster kid and I was abused by my bio family…. We all go through hard things and it’s wonderful to hear the side of someone that was adopted… and knowing that it wasn’t easy for you either. 💜 again thank you. I’m rooting for you. You’re awesome.
My favorite guest. Very insightful.
Tara, thank you for sharing your story. I'm sure a lot of people will relate to it.
Thank you for sharing your story. ❤
Btw, please have tissue available for your guests. 🤧
What a beautiful soul, thanks for sharing your story🪷
Thank you Zelph for covering this. I’ve been BEGGING exmo creators to start talking about adoption and Mormonism. Tara is amazing!
❤ another exmo adoptee (bought child)
I am from Germany and I am fairly certain that you can't legally make the decision to give your child up for adoption until it is born, which I think should be the norm.
Amazing interview. This is the first time I have more fully understood the structural problems with adoption. Poor people’s babies are being purchased by rich people rather than the culture supporting all mothers. Stealing babies is one of the arms of colonialism so of course you feared your baby would be stolen. Thanks for your authenticity. This interview will help people.
It's so important for exmos to talk about not liking being pregnant. I hated being pregnant. Also had those feelings about this is what heaven is? I think so many of us keep sweet because we've been told stories about how wonderful it is to be co creating with "God". And then it's horrible the Mormon expectations make it worse.
I really appreciate Tara's story.
1:37:10 its interesting because i just recently heard a radio program with a group of Somali people discussing mental health and someone said something along the lines of, "we know that mental health struggles here are actually worse than being in the civil war because we were more connected to community." Im sure there's more nuance to that, but that blew my mind and made me feel not so guilty by comparing my struggles
This episode hurts my heart so much. Im a bio mom that went through lds services.
💜💜💜 sending so much love, I can’t imagine how hard that would be
Tara's Mormon Stories interview is in my top ten. Thanks for doing a deep-dive on mental health and finding yourself outside of antiquated gender norms
I bought my own prison… what a line! Great episode
I was adopted through Catholic charities. Thanks for sharing your story!!! ❤❤❤❤
thank you for sharing. You seem like such a sweet strong women. ❤
I just want to hug Tara. I am so sorry for your trauma.
Tara ❤❤❤ great seeing you!
I’ve always wanted to adopt but now I’m wondering what is the most moral way to have a child
WHOA that's so true for me as well that a big part of Mormon mindset was just doing everything the opposite of what I wanted to do. My own desires were all incredibly suspect.
I did the same process of doing some mild partying as a teen while feeling incredibly guilty like I was living a double life, and then getting SUPER Mormon after high school. Peak Mormonism for me was ages 18-25 or so.
great guest ❤
what a beautiful person
Great show!
So weird. I had a family in my South Jordan ward who, when i knew them (in the early 90's), had three adopted kids and the youngest was a one year old girl who was black. I babysat for them once. I think the oldest was a girl who was red headed. But our ward split and i didn't know anything about them after that. I guess I'm wondering if that was Tara i babysat. If not, that is a crazy coincidence.
1:36:58 thank you for mentioning Palestine 🙏🏻🙌🏻
Tissues?? Would be useful for when guests are being so brilliantly vulnerable 👏
I'm going to be honest and I hope I am heard because I haven't been heard about this a lot in my life. I am a survivor of child trafficking. I was trafficked BECAUSE nobody wanted to adopt and nobody cares about homeless children, neglected children, or orphans. And they often end up trafficked because of this. If you want to adopt, there are plenty of street kids nobody even looks at and they need loving homes. You can save a life if you're capable. And contrary to popular belief, a lot of those children are so desperate for love and so desperate to please that they wouldn't be nearly as difficult as people assume. It is the same reason they're so vulnerable to traffickers. A child's brain needs that support. Just look down. Save lives.
And for the love of God, anytime anyone mentions adoption please stop going out of your way to say it isn't the right choice for everyone. We already know. It is the last option for most people and children are suffering and dying. The existence of orphans isn't an attack on your choices, but when you do that all those children hear is that they aren't deserving of love or family. They're children. I would know. I was there.
I’m so sorry. 💔 I would love to know more about how that happened to you; thank you for sharing your unique perspective. 🤍🤍
Did u at least eat at Gladys Knight's when u were in ATL?
I'm from Ireland where there was a lot of adoption as a fix all for the lapses in "morality" or "purity" on behalf of those girls who found themselves pregnant and alone in a religion and culture that like Mormonism saw nothing but marriage as the societal norm. The girls took the "blame" and the guys went on with their lives. Even the adoption was clouded with secrecy and often exploitation. On the other hand in that era society would never have helped or supported those single mothers and their families threw them out and the religious mother n baby homes at least took them in. Life was hugely different. Today in Ireland single parenthood is so accepted there is government help and no one bats an eye. From the viewpoint of an adoptive mother whom I had as a friend for over 30 years I watched her and her husband give two children a great home love affection and open hearts to these two children. My friend never wanted to find out about her past she was happy in her present her brother had immense problems which his adoptive mum blamed herself for and in my opinion she shouldn't have taken on that blame. So this is quite the minefield and is so personal different and unique to each individual. At least today the Catholuc Church here and general society hasn't such an iron grip on people's bodies and minds and people are able to live their lives their way. My mum was a stay at home mum but had to give up her job when she got married. Even though she didn't work afterwards she kept up her interest in her nursing career and graduated twice from college with diplomas in nursing which she completed in middle age with no 3rd level education. She used this to help her family to advise and council her friends and family and organization's. She remained strong and solid to her last despite restrictions from society and religion. She was a true partner in her63 year marriage and opinionated till the end. So there are exceptions to every rule. Cc Ireland well done to this lady for her honesty and happy new year all🎉
Your friends children are biological siblings? Two extremely common trauma response for adoptees is to become a people pleaser so you do anything anyone wants of you to make sure the don’t abandon you, and acting act trying f to test the people around you to see if when things get tough if they will abandon you or not.
Your friends children are biological siblings? Two extremely common trauma response for adoptees is to become a people pleaser so you do anything anyone wants of you to make sure the don’t abandon you, and acting act trying f to test the people around you to see if when things get tough if they will abandon you or not.
This will not bring consolation but it needs to be said...even people that had biological families are abandoned. Many of us had to raise ourselves. Poverty kept both parents at work. Addiction/alcoholism kept parents unavailable. Not having guidance kept us alienated from others because we have no idea what is normal or ok. Please be good medicine for each other. We are all alone, together❤
Actually this did not need to be said. The loneliness felt by people with biological families will never be the same as the loneliness felt by an adoptee.
What you just said is akin to saying "all lives matter" when someone says "black lives matter."
@CyrynDragoon What YOU said needed to be said lmao, I came to say the same thing. My trauma as a neglected youth with bio ties is NOT the same to the isolation and trauma experienced by adoptees. Tf kind of comparison.
You’re not wrong about people who aren’t adopted still being/feeling abandoned. However I don’t think this was the time or place. It’s like when women are talking about the systemic abuse they face and men chime in with “well men get raped too!” It’s true and it needs to be addressed. But you’re making a problem that’s not about you, about you.
I’m sorry, what are you trying to say here? That either you are able to have biological kids or sucks to suck? Adoption is just human trafficking? That’s ridiculous, just because you aren’t raised by biological parents doesn’t mean you can’t have a good life. My dad was adopted and he’s lived an excellent life, and he’s glad to exist. Just because someone can pop out a baby does not mean they are the best person to parent that baby.
I don’t think that’s what she’s saying at all. Nobody is owed the right to adoption but yes, there are lots of amazing adoptive parents!
Did you know the reason several states have a cap on how much life insurance can be taken out on minors is because so many people adopted children to murder for the insurance check. And at the turn of the century adoption meant you where now the servant of the family that has adopted you. They had use of the adopted child to their mid twenties I think 24. I’m glad your dad landed in a good place but adoptees “self delete” at four times the rate of the rest of the population, they are more prone to mental illness and substance problems, and are murdered by their caregivers at 8 times the rest of the population, and can be rehomed on face book. For the vast majority adoption has not been the blessing it promises.
👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽
❤
I've already commented but I should make this clear, if what I commented or replied about offended anyone I didn't mean anything I just have extremely strong opinions on adoption. I recognize adoption can be done wrong but I was adopted almost perfectly by a mother who I feel was God-appointed to be my mother. I had no connection to my bio mom but I had and have a deep connection with my mother so much so that if she dies I would fall into a deep depression while if my bio mom dies and somehow someway I find out about it I would treat it like a stranger dying: sad for the family but I am not her family and don't know her and what I was told about her she wasn't the best person. I pretty much chose my mother, be it the natural body accepted her or my spirit accepted her that's up to you, she didn't choose me.
Another adoptee chiming in here. I also have no relationship with my bio family other than an uncle and his wife. I’m also very glad I was not raised by either side of my biological family and love my adoptive family.
Our experience is not common. We are the outliers in most adoptive situations. And even if we have amazing, kind, compassionate adoptive parents that doesn’t lessen any trauma we had from the initial separation, as babies can’t understand or process that separation like an adult can. I’m really glad your experience was a good one but please remember when we’re in spaces with people who are talking about trauma and adoption that it’s important to be respectful and validating of their story rather than making a blanket “adoption worked out well for me” kind of statement. You are in fact, the minority. And it’s important for those of us who got lucky to hold space and mourn with those who were not as lucky.
@Cosmically_Forsaken Yeah I agree but there is one problem. I have no trauma from the initial separation mainly because the first person to hold me was my mom not my bio. I am 100% removed from any attachment to my bio mom I don't even consider her my real mom I consider my mom my mom and a lot of the "adoption leads to trauma" is due to public opinion and the parents keeping it a secret and the adoptive parent not fully claiming them, my mother 100% claimed me, my family 100% claimed me and saw me not as their adoptive child but their real child. Think about it, if you are adopted as a baby you would have no memory of your bio family but with god-forsaken jokes like "YoUr AdOpTeD" or "NoBoDy WaNtS yOu fOr YoUr AdOpTed" being thrown around that creates fake trauma that didn't exist, could there be trauma? Yes absolutely especially if its older children. Maybe I am blindsided by my own experience that I never had any separation trauma and claimed my mother the moment I met her.
Edit: I should clarify that I was in foster system and never actually knew my bio family. I did have separation trauma but the other way around, when the social worker would come to get me to visit my bio mom they had to pry me from my mother's arms and I would scream and cry until I returned home and a visit went on for hours so much so that at times the visit with my bios had to be cancelled because I would cry so much they worried I would die from crying myself to death. In my young eyes(at the time) I was being taken away from my mother and taken to a stranger's house in my mind my adoptive mother was my real mother and my bio mother was the stranger
@justinatkins737 my godmother is an adoptee who has had to fully cut off both her bio family and adoptive family because they're both extremely abusive in different ways.
I'm glad your experience is different, but most experiences aren't good. It's still human trafficking. It's still a net negative on a national and even somewhat global scale. Anecdotal evidence cannot erase substantiated data.
@@ephraimjohnson8146 I am not an "adoptee" I'm my mother's child I find that word offensive
@@justinatkins737 Okay. I don't think I ever called you an adoptee?
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is the true church of Jesus Christ.
It’s a fake religion
Not even halfway in (and I’m white) but there’s SO much of what Tara is saying that I get. My son was the first biological family I ever met. The connection was there for me but my trauma showed by being hyper anxious that he would be taken from me for literally no reason.
The deregulation, not knowing who I was, feeling like I should be grateful all the time really hit home too. I was even used as a Sunday school object lesson because I was adopted. 🫠
Sorry in advance if I comment a lot I have FEELINGS lol
🤍🤍🤍 thank you for sharing!