Nice to see someone on RUclips who actually gets this. I’ve bee using this technique since the late 80’s, when Keith Olsen (legendary Producer/Engineer) turned me on to it, and in fact showed me the mod himself. Remember, as the unit is doing EXPANSION to the signal that falls below the threshold…. Send LESS inout gain, the more you want the expansion effect. Just raise the return fader to compensate for level. WHEN you send audio that is over the threshold, No Expansion (thus No Effect) takes place. It’s purpose was to boost low level, high frequency info - the mind that tape hiss would mask. Then, on playback the reverse happens. The same frequency bands are lowered… which in turn lowers the tape his. Of course, we’re only interested in the encoding process. Again… awesome RUclips video on a subject that’s been to well hidden. Cheers.
That’s awesome info! Thanks for the kind words too. I’d love to get my hands on a modified version of the 361 with variable threshold control. I’ve seen pics of some very tricked out modules capable of very clever signal manipulation but not yet in person.
Yes! And I saw somebody modify one that also had the ability to control the four bands, allowing you to attenuate 30 Hz to 1 kHz on the face of the module, or play with different variations of compression! Very cool. Thx again ❤️
Nice! Yea we did neglect to mention ton they actually make incredible noise reduction modules for their initial purpose. I have a red modular controller with variable slider control that improves SNR and it does a wonderful job with my Studer tape machine.
@@JMLRecordingI’m so jealous that you have a Studer, I want an A80 2” 16 track so badly but there’s no way I could justify blowing that much… But yes I want the Dolby’s for my Tascam 90-19 1” 16 track machine. It would allow me to slow down the to half and save a tone on tape
When you slam a quality tape machine like that into oblivion and realize how constraining all the restrictions and inhibitions that digital false frequencies and aliases impose on you in the DAW, you never go back :) I learned tape from Russel Elevado at electric lady studios (“the dragon”) and instantly recognize that he doesn’t just use tape because it’s cool, he uses tape because it sounds (*saturates) exponentially better. You can pry Ampex mastering for my cold, dead hands haha
@@JMLRecording Exactly, bro it’s so cool to hear from other people who get this… I don’t get why there’s even an argument about it. I hate this “why would you use tape, my DAW can do everything a Studer can and more” or the “the only reason why prefer tape is because they grew up with it”… I’m gen-z, I’m not an analog native, I found this out on my own. It’s not nostalgia, I’m not biased, I just took a chance on it and realized what it is capable of. I could go on for days about what recording, mixing, and mastering on tape has done for my music but biggest thing is grit. There’s nothing like driving a Neve straight into tape. We sacrificed a lot when we switched to in the box recording and mixing
That’s right. Even if people are making music that ends up streaming, as most music does these days, to have begun slamming tape is such a unique advantage over the polished digital stuff we are used to now. It’s so funny to me all these “saturation plugins” and tape emulation solutions out there when you can still procure a decent physical tape machine quite cheap and go so much further with it. I’m a fan of the old Japanese tape machines such as Otari, for instance. The mx505 mkii is a BEAST and requires almost zero maintenance. That machine sounds phenomenal and will last a lifetime. Meanwhile, a MONO Rupert Neve designs 500 series “emulator” module costs almost as much and is half as cool. Baffling
Thanks my friend, means a lot. I was wondering if these videos mean anything to anyone but it’s cool to see people enjoying this obscure audio history like I do :) thank you
Now I have a clearer understanding of Robert Scovills use of this trick on Geddy Lee's voice when he did live sound for Rush for a number of years.. but he used the much larger rack unit model 301 with the low process cards pulled...used as an exciter mainly on vocals and acoustic gtr...sounds wonderful!!
wow I learn something new everyday thats amazing!! I wonder if thats a direct inspiration between them you found?? I bet it is. More research! More Chi! Well done homie
Yes very briefly but I did get to help out on an Al Green session with Questlove, the Dave Chapel Block Party soundtrack he did and a couple other amazing projects. He is the nicest engineer I've ever known. Chatted recently w him at a Electric Garden studio party in BK and he was as nice and down to earth as ever ❤
Really Great clear info ! I've been using this trick for years and it is my secret weapon . You have explained it clearer than anybody . Great work . ct
Fascinating stuff! I’m a fan. You’re clearly knowledgeable and passionate. FYI, the Noveltech Vocal thing on Plug-in Alliance does something similar, but way easier to overuse. I like this better. Overload makes an emulation too. But ain’t nothing like the real thing baby!
Yea to each their own. Nothing wrong w that :) if you have a modern LED studio I could see it being cool. Personally my studio has a Persian rug, vintage vibe so not my bag
An interesting idea my friend however I might not on that particular mic only because the RNT is a condenser mic similar to the C800G vibe, which is already kinda bright and much more forward than a moving coil dynamic like the sm7(b). I glanced at the RNT’s frequency chart and it looks to have a +5db bump starting at 6khz all the way to the top at 20k so the top two bands of comp the 361 provides would probably be too much sauce on the highs. However I’m sure in SOME scenarios they would sound great together! But my gut reaction is no. LDC’s often do not need high end boosts (especially low-mid range LDC’s), and can even require a taming of the bright top. Mic manufacturers these days lean towards clarity instead of vibe and end up with very shrill and bright top ends which many seasoned engineers don’t like, myself included (gimme an RCA44 or Altec Birdcage any day). While the Dolby trick doesn’t necessarily boost the high end per se, it does give the illusion that it is doing so and would brighten the shrill range that LDC’s need taming (5k-15k). Again, it may be cool in the right application but the 361 shines best (imho) on dynamic mics, ribbons, gtrs, synth and bass, in that order for me. Conversely, I don’t like the 361 on female vox too much, drum OH’s, LDC’s, SDC’s or bright percussion like Tambo or cymbals. Hope that helps. All the best bud!! Thx for the comment too ❤️✌️
Right?? Engineers like you are catching on. Just like smart mastering engineers use multiband compression instead of EQ's to fix mix issues, this is a mix engineers secret weapon to bring pretty much any source forward in a mix without pushing something else out of the way in the frequency spectrum. We are slightly limited by the 4 fixed bands Dolby chose though, so here's the million dollar idea: create a mod for the 361 (or even better, the stereo 365 or 362) to allow adjustable frequency variation on a potentiometer for all 4 bands (or at least Q sweeps)! Maybe someone has already done this? I've seen some pretty wild mods out there already. If not, I would looooove to make a video with someone that can make one! I would sponsor that build for sure.
I am interested in one of your cards but may i ask, what exactly is the point of the mod? I dont really understand it. Wouldnt you want the lower bands engaged so the vocal wouldnt be muddy? What is the difference between your mod and a normal cat 22?
Hey man good question. So you don’t want to compress the low end because it sucks the life and body out of the lower frequencies. It ads a lot of air and lift by limiting dynamic range. People often pair darker ribbon mics placed next to a LDC to fill in lower information missing by brighter, more contemporary LSC’s (or even SEC’s). Dolby A splits the audio spectrum into four bands, applying varying amounts of compression to each band. When you compress the lower end you’re limiting that low end information and reducing dynamic range, therefore loosing the body and fullness of the vocal. Lifting the high end sounds pleasing. Not so much on low end, so engineers removed lower two bands to retain body and add air to top.
@@JMLRecording so basically so you can use it direct, opposed to parallel? sorry i was not notified that you commented. And its funny that you say “lifeless”. I produced a practice mix yesterday, 2 track. I ran the lead, via send through a 361 with unmodified cat. 22. Then i mixed the return signal with a parallel compression track. I kept the dry lead very quiet, as the 361 sounds really good, its a bit scary. So i exported the mix like that and sent it through a master site. It sounded so good to me and everyone who listened said it sounds great. I listened to it so much yesterday! Then tonight when i listened, i notice how flat and bodyless it sounds in comparison to some industry songs lol. It doesnt sound horrible but now i completely believe that i understand this mod fr lol. Need that body! Just gotta eq and compress the mud myself i see lol
@@raykash1673 hey brother, yes the unit imparts a slight boost in overall gain and body just apssing through the unit without the NR IN button engaged. In fact, the 362, which is a stereo version of the 361 has a calibrate knob that you pull out to adjust gain staging!
I have 4 and love them to death. Never parting with my 361s. I do however need the switch lens for the version that has the “set up” switch. Missing (white lens)does anyone know where I can get one?!
Hiya - To my knowledge, no one reproduces them :/ I have cannibalized a broken one for all the little parts like that in the past. What I've also done is put one of the other colors on the missing button (all you need is the far left two anyway) and then cover the empty hole with colored electrical tape. It'll last decades and looks real clean believe it or not. Otherwise, get a donor unit and cannibalize it. If you're handy with a dremmel you should definitely be able to fab a lens from acrylic too! Or just sell your 4 361's and get two stereo 365's (or 362's) hahaha! Lastly, keep in mind that the earlier 361's and later versions varied drastically in the lens design. One were U shaped and the later ones were flat panels that won't fit. Anyway... Good luck my friend!
@@JMLRecording yeah the one I need is the u shape lens. Thanx a mill. Yeah the 362 and 365s are niiiiiice. I almost got the 360s but someone snagged it, but that’s ok I’m fine with 4 361s. They will be enough to get the job done hahahaha
not trying to nitpick..but you can use contact cleaner on fader but you have to find a lubricant to utlize with it as it will create more friction without the 'formula'.. sometimes you have to improvise. even without the lubricant you can get that channel clean for the time being.
Interesting! May very well be true however tech rule of thumb is that contact cleaner removes the film of lubricant from the plastic tracks, causing rapid wear. It also dries out the wipers of potentiometers and rapidly wrecks them too. I was always taught to never use contact cleaner on pots, tactile buttons, switches or faders. Use only fader cleaner/lube on faders. Yes, it may temporary clean up some noise here or there but you’re destroying your gear over time. My recommendation to viewers remains to buy some fader lube and always keep on hand. Contact cleaner is ONLY for points of contact (ie xlr, trs, TS, db25, elco, etc)
Good question. The only difference is that the 360 has remote control option and monitor control. Niether of which you need to achieve the Dolby Trick. The difference between the 362 and 365 is that the 362 is 1U and the 365 is 2U. For studio use of the vocalstressor application any will do the exact same thing as long as you utilize a modified cat22. Cheers - JML
So when you are speaking, are you running it parallel or direct? And how do you wire it. I purchased two of them and im not sure if i am wiring them correctly. Your help would be greatly appreciated!
Hi - I'm running out of a Neve 1073, direct into the Dolby (via a patchbay). So on the back there are a few sets of XLR I/O. Use the Use "Line In" for input and "To Record" for output for simple Dolby trick usage. Hope that helps brother. Pls share my video and sub! Thx Ray ~ JML
Thank you so much for that speedy response. May i ask one more question, why is it that so many people recommend running it parallel, if it sounds so good direct? Is it to save some of the body of the lead vocal or something? But when u have the mod, not touching the low and mid bands, wouldn’t it work perfectly direct? Maybe i just answered my own question but please confirm that if so. Thank you!
That a great question. I have another 3 part video called “ultimate 15 mixing tips” and #8 is by far the most important, “if it sounds good, it is good”. Go with your gut, my friend. Listen to it with a separate dry track in parallel and then listen to it by itself and whichever one sounds best for the song you’re working on, just go with it man. There is no right way (this applies to absolutely every rule in the book imho). This unit has been used on hundreds of iconic recordings in BOTH ways. I might just add to that that if the effect sounds too dramatic, like the high end is a little bit too airy and shrill, THEN try balancing it with a dry, parallel application. Otherwise if it sounds great once folded INTO the mix by itself, run with it alone. Trust your ears brother! All the very best
A 414 EB with a brass capsule, in good working order, should need very little to no help in the high end. Though the Dolby trick will probably work pretty well with a nylon capsule EB, which (to me), despite popular claims, is quite a nice microphone.
I would agree entirely. I would almost never use the Dolby trick on any condenser microphone at all. I primarily use it on dynamics and occasionally ribbons. I don’t know anyone who would think a Brass capsule 414 EB is not a good microphone; it is mostly regarded as one of the greatest mics ever made, next to its big brother the C12 (or C24). Most of he EB mics are phenomenal, especially the old 451’s. So good…
@@JMLRecording I was referring to people not liking the nylon capsule EBs. Towards the end of the 70s, when people would send their original EBs (or Combs) to AKG for service, and the capsule needed replacing, AKG would replace the brass capsule with their new nylon capsule. When people got their mics back from AKG, they sounded completely different. While a brass capsule EB sounds noticeably more beautiful than the nylon version, it doesn't mean the nylon version is bad. I get great results using nylon capsule EBs and Combs on vocals and piano. But I will say the original brass capsule 414s are the best sounding large diaphragm solid state mics ever made, as far as I'm concerned. Big fan of the channel BTW!
@JeroBagg oh haha sorry brother, I misread. but yes, I would emphatically agree with you once again. I have some newer 414s here here that I adore and that sound great on all kinds of sources. I also have a C24 with the CK12 Brass capsules and it obviously sounds great. I’m pretty much anything. But they’re all great mics for sure. Tha ks for the support!
Hi bud, not sure what you mean by that question, sorry. The Orange 55 amp I made is 15/7 Watts switchable and can handle 1×8 OHM, 1×16 OHM or 2×16 OHM. Is that what you wanted to know? Thx
Oh wow I didn’t know that! I think after Swedien used it all engineers took notice. Everyone from John Lennon to Queen employed it. There was a point when the world called this the “Lennon Trick” too!
Yes! Audio Thang plug is great. Thanks for mentioning. I was shocked when it dropped because I wasn’t aware this old noise reduction unit was on the radar like that. I think I mentioned it in this video briefly too. I’ve compared “Type A” plugin to my outboard 361’s (and stereo 362 & 365’s). I should have A-B’d it against the outboard in this video, sorry. IMHO the plug (like most plugins) is almost there but not quite. Binary code vs analog components is an age old debate so I digress, but it does seem that the analog 361 is still a bit punchier, fuller and better at lifting the source up and out front in a mix. I also noticed the sheen the analog 361 gives has a tiny bit more color and warmth than the plugin, which I like. Both are a great solution. Having said that, like most audio nerd nuances, 90% of earbud endusers can’t tell the difference and don’t care. The plug is an awesome plugin for ITB guys and worth every penny. Great comment!
@@JMLRecording yeah, that’s cool, and common. I don’t think about those small shortcomings of DAW tech to OG analog, because I love all the other things that come with the process. At the end of the mix, if you did your job right, those small differences within the context of the mix become irrelevant.
What's up Ray! Short answer is no. Long answer is... maybe? I say no simply because the "stretched" Cat22 cards would be compressing about 1K-5K without any parameter control. They'd be limiting your dynamic range beyond what a mastering engineer would probably do. However, like all projects, try and see! Happy accidents through experimentation is often a key of a great mix. While I certainly wouldn't recommend leaving stereo 361's on your mix bus permanently, it may actually sound cool on the RIGHT project. Synth guru Hanz Volt leaves a pair on his synth bus at all times and swears by them. Daft Punk uses a crap-tastic Alesis 3630 on their synth bus (yikes) so who are we to hammer down an unorthodox thought? Could be cool for a unique sheen on the mid-highs of a dark mix? As they say, "If it sounds good, it is good." Toa De Ching literally translates to, "The way called the way is not the way" for this exact reason. Mix engineers could use a bit of that ancient wisdom now and again ;) Best advice I ever got was from Ric Ocasek at Electric Lady right before he passed. He told me simply, "just use your ears kid."
Interesting, unfortunatly, we don't have access to your modifications in Europe... About acoustic guitars, In my experience, nothing beats M/S technique...!
Prices on these are getting super silly. I actually missed out on a pair two weeks ago for $30 by like an hour lol, I kinda cried a little. It was just a one day sale a studio was holding to raise money for someone in the crew, but yeah, I was pretty bummed. That was obv a crazy deal, but yeah prices have gotten ridiculous, like with a lot of stuff, and people shouldn't enable that crap, like $1200-2000 for one unit, and un serviced most of the time. Id say considering the days of $100-200 units are over, and wasn't even long ago, $300-500 a unit is more than realistic. The thing is, crazy prices aren't just supply, and demand. It's hype for one thing, and two, greedy flippers post a crazy price, and they sit until theres no other one's at the same time, and then it forces people to panic buy, or get FOMO, because they feel like if they don't jump on it, then they won't get it for that price again, because the next dude just makes up a new crazy price. I personally have gear that I've seen go up 4-5x the price in just a few years, and to the point where it's like insane. Also, as a seller, I could take advantage, and list it for what certain people are paying, but I wouldn't do that. To me its just not down to earth, and only still enabling that type of selling tactic. I'd be totally fine selling for what stuff should be worth, to someone who needs it, and will use it to make records. People can do what they want, but to many people just justify insane prices IMO. This stuffs meant to use to make music, and records, not be some collectors item. I don't even mean the 361 per say, but like an La3a for like $10,000 kinda thing lol. Anyway, I found a pair of 361's finally today. Paying $600 for the pair, and thats totally reasonabke IMO, and seller agrees to. He could have just listed them for $1000 each if he wanted, but we both feel the same about the prices.
I agree. And 1-2k for a stock 361 is insane. I sell modified ones for around 1k but I’ve also put in 8hrs of time and my bench rate is $125 am hour so I feel that’s very fair. I rarely pay more for $700 for one in Oct 2024. But I also see them going up… as inflation continues to obliterate the economy. Gonna be the top talking point of the election, I guarantee you that!! Cheers on the pair for 600, I but a lot of these and can tell you, that’s an insane deal. Goon on ya!
@@JMLRecording Yea man. If you fully serviced a unit thats reasonable for sure. That's the thing though, is it's not always just inflation, well it can be in a way, but that's also what people use to justify more, and more insane prices. Also, inflation is real, I agree, but things haven't went up 3,4,5 times the price from 4-5 years ago, not even 10 years ago. Some stuff has definitely doubled, maybe a bit more, but the gear market is just so over saturated with flippers, and the lines get so blurred between what something should be worth, economy, supply/demand etc. It's all over the place. Also, people who buy gear, and are engineers should realize that the more you ask for stuff, only makes inflation higher in the market in the end, but if you're just a picker/flipper, then they don't care, and just keep pushing the boundaries. Anyway, I'm totally ranting. Sorry. On another note, I really want to find one of those remotes. Can you let me know if you ever get one in? Thanks man! Yeah, it's def a very fair deal I'd say. I def think he's being nice for sure. He's an engineer up in Cali, but he also knows what they are going for which ATM you can find them for $600-700 a piece, but he feels like it's a bit silly, esp un serviced. Like just 4-5 years ago, and for decades before they were like $100-300 a piece, probably $50 a piece 10 years ago hah. Also, there's no shortage of these things. I do side with you though in that $1000 for a serviced/recapped unit is fine. I was willing to pay $600-700 tops for an unserviced unit, but just would have bought one for now if that was the case. Oh, question. I'll be doing this myself, but wanted to ask, have you compared a unit directly with any plugins? I was using the Overloud one a lot in my mixes, and really really loved it, actually think it's kinda flying under the radar a bit, but just wondering if you haven't tried it, I'd be really curious to hear your thoughts on how you think it compares to a hardware 361.
Yea I not only recap the units but I do the stretch mod, the vOcalstressor mod and then calibrate and tune em up. I also clean/debug them. I often swap old bad wiring and often swap the oval jacks for IEC. Bulbs are usually out too. Do the math: : I pay 600 for a unit plus 8hrs at $125 an hour bench time. I should be selling them for 2k each but I usually do 1k-1200. That’s very fair. Keep in mind I’ll go through 3 or 4 cat 22 “as-is” cards on eBay before I get a good one and the traces are notoriously easily wrecked as soon as you touch them with like 280 degrees of heat from a variable heat soldering iron so I’ll usually wreck one or two (or 4) before I get one exactly right. It’s not a cheap process.
@@JMLRecording I mean, I totally agree with you on the 1-1.2K thing if your paying $600, and putting in all that work. You saying you should be selling them for $2000 is kind of where I not disagree, like obv you could do that, but that's just where my opinion, and practices would vary. I think that's silly hah, but if you disagree I mean hey, all good. I could go on another rant, but I won't lol. So, when you recap these, are you replacing every single capacitor, like even the tantalum ones, or just the square film ones, or? In the unit, and cards they mainly only use the two types right? I'm honestly just looking for advice, because I may do mine as well. I know with a lot of audio gear I have that has electrolytics, but also some polyester, or film caps, I tend to only do the electrolytics, and leave the older poly/Films, because I find them to last a lot longer, and also can impart some character sometimes, but because they are old lol. I dunno if it's just because they are darker, or more worn, but have had a few people give me that advice, to do the electro's, but leave the Poly/Films. That said, doesn't look like these use any Electrolytic's, and just mainly tantalum, and and film? Also, are you replacing all the resistors, and fet's ect, or just the caps mainly? I know it's not always cut, and dry like that, but assuming nothings weird, or discoloured, or out of spec to much. Also, assuming you replace all the caps, what do you tend to like in place of the Tantalums, and the others, just the same, or? Could you even fit something like film Wima's in the place of the Tant's?
@jamescassidy4045 film in auto path. High spec. Electrolytic do exist in power supply section, tantalum are for very precise filtering/decoupling in audio circuits. Lots of components in these fail so while I usually only service parts that NEED to be serviced, there’s exceptions to gear like this. having worked on over 100 of these I’ve come to recognize what is problematic so I preemptively take care of them while I’m in there. The traces on these are notoriously fragile like old russian mic PCB’s so keep your heat very low on your iron. I find that These are not easy to work on at all and wrecked 2 or 3 cat 22’s for everyone I was able to mod in the early days of modifying them. Dolby changed suppliers quite a bit during the 2+ decades they made these and I’ve come to recognize what parts will last or fail based on pcb color, resistor brand and other visual cues. There’s very few turnkey 361’s out there, or at least consistent sounding units to make a relatively close matched pair out of. This is why I prefer the 365 or 362 models myself. The 362 is the king of them all because it has two pots with volume control and I drive sources in some very unique and cool ways you can’t do with the 361 or 365’s. I also love to use other encoding/decoding cards/methods with these that has given me very unique tricks in the studio most people have never heard before. The cat22 is only one trick up my sleeve here :) bottom line, each one sounds quite different and each card does too. You can do it though! Have fun
i think i give this try and test with my Dolby Stereo CP200 , R109 , R209 , but agree 10:41 shouldn't whore the products lol i see if makes a difference with some laserdiscs theatrical mixes , as blu 4k really whore the products with near field mixes maybe why so many blu uhd atmos upmixes or blu discs really sound like been raped of dynamic range lol# its not scientific due to never be able to make same vocal sound twice 10:48 should use , pink noise to notice the sound difference 11:56 i seen 361 cheaper than fish and chips , but since 2020 i seen prices go greedy , no longer fish and chips , rare find sellers that are fish and chips , sell them at fish and chips 12:28 what like shove mj inside like pushing a resistor with voltage ? lol i wonder now if same trick can be done with Dolby SR cards , so many cat meow , SR cards ? 280 , 280t , 350
Hi thanks for the comment. While a bit hard to decipher, I agree with some of what you said. Veeeeery interesting comment about the pink noise and I'd like to offer a fun, nerdy answer and push back on this a bit, if you'll allow it. While it's true pink noise would have showed better results on a spectral analyzer, a human speaking voice is far better to HEAR the difference, which was most important to me. Modern humans evolved from Africa 200,000 years ago and from then till now, the human ear has evolved around one thing: to prioritize the ability to hear the human speaking voice (not pink noise) above all noises. Mother nature's priority was survival and communication. Fascinating fact about this is that professional piano tuners actually tune low notes sharp and high notes flat because our ears are actually trying to pull all frequencies to the center to where human speaking voice frequencies occur! Even most musicians are unaware of how erroneously off pitch our ears are to this phenomenon. Again, this is because our brains prioritize human speech and have evolved around it. The frequency spectrum of pink noise is linear in logarithmic scale & has equal power in bands that are proportionally wide. Although pink noise contains all of audible frequencies (20Hz - 20Khz), we don't hear all of them equally AT ALL and are not "tuned" to them either. That's why it's called "noise" and why I do not agree that it would be useful for musical analysis. I wanted people to truly "hear" the difference by using the human speaking voice (85Hz-255Hz), which is most familiar to us for thousands of years. I also could have printed the same recording but... who cares. It's not a mic shootout. Having said all that, if I made the video again I'd add both speaking voice and pink noise to have all info! Good idea for next time, thanks. As far as me taking exactly 8 seconds for advertising my products, I'm a content creator and I sell stuff so... sorry not sorry :) Regarding SR cards, I DO use them often for a variety of mix tricks! Not the same but still quite useful indeed. That would make for another great video, thanks for bringing that up! All the best - Joshua
*So basically IT AN EQ! You should be able to achieve the exact same results with an inexpensive long throw 12db-/+ 31 BAND GRAPHIC EQ and a multiband compressor.*
John Lennon trick, blah blah blah and so on with useless talk. All what I hear is an (orrendous) emphasis of high frequencies, nothing that can't be achieved with a simple eq. or any crap multiband compressor plugin.
While a sardonic comment is tolerated, false ones are not. It is false that the Dolby 361 system can simply be replicated by a generic multiband compressor or EQ plug-in. Allow me to address your comment: 1. Noise Reduction Technology is not the same as a "crappy plugin" at all nor can you get the same result. The Dolby system was a noise reduction unit, which used a process called "Dolby A-type" noise reduction that uniquely encoded and decoded audio in a way that reduced tape hiss by compressing specific frequency bands during recording and expanding them during playback. This is NOT AT ALL something a typical multiband compressor or EQ is designed to do nor can you get the same result. These Dolby's used four frequency bands, each treated completely DIFFERENTLY to handle noise reduction. You cannot achieve the same effect with a "crappy plugin" or MBC. If it sounds the same to you, your ears or your D/A rig are to be questioned. 2. The encoding and decoding process works NOTHING like an EQ/plugin. Mostly because it's a unique 2 step process, not a linear pass of audio like an EQ or MBC. Like I say in the video, it's very similar... but not same. - Encoding during recording: Certain frequencies are compressed and dynamic range is reduced. - Decoding during playback: Those same frequencies are then expanded on the way out, which reduces the noise floor while preserving the original dynamic range. Sharply against your point, a regular multiband compressor or EQ doesn't do this type of encoding/decoding at all. They just apply static frequency adjustments or dynamic range control without the noise reduction process so again, not the same thing nor the same result. Similar but not same. 3. Linear Phase and Precision is another totally unique feature a "crappy plugin" is not doing. These Dolby's operate with very precise algorithms designed to manage noise WITHOUT coloring the sound (or making it "orrendous" as you put it). Your "crappy plugins" introduce phase shift or coloration, which degrades the audio making it... well... crap. Dolby systems are engineered to work seamlessly with professional analog tape machines, handling noise reduction in a transparent way that multiband compressors and EQs can’t replicate. So again, not the same at all. 4. Tape-Specific Technology is not the same as crappy MBC plugins or Eq at all. The Dolby 361 was designed specifically to address issues with analog tape recordings. The noise reduction system is tightly integrated with the characteristics of tape like tape hiss & saturation. A plugin that isn’t built with tape characteristics in mind is nothing like the Dolby. So again, not the same. The Dolby trick involves both compression AND expansion in a way that is specific to tape-based workflows and nothing like a crappy MBC plugin so how exactly can you easily achieve the same result? Please be scientific in your answer. A crap plug, no matter how good, doesn't replicate that combination of frequency-specific dynamic range control and noise reduction tailored to analog tape. If it sounds the same to your ears, well... I have no comment about your ears. All the best.
@@JMLRecording You put things in my mouth that I did not say. i did not say that the functions of a compander like Dolby A can be replicated by a simple multiband plugin, of course cannot. I said that the SOUND RESULT you get with your silly "Dolby trick" (a misuse of the compressing section of the Dolby unit) is no more than what you get with a treble enhancement with a properly set eq or multiband compressor plugin. I am 60 years old and work currently with Studer, Telefunken and Tascam machines; Dolby A/SR, Telcom C4 and DBX of all kinds. I don't need to have you explain to me what a compander is. As for ears you keep yours and I keep mine.
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
cue the waynes world, we're not worthy.
best YT channel going for audio nerds. cheers
Nice to see someone on RUclips who actually gets this. I’ve bee using this technique since the late 80’s, when Keith Olsen (legendary Producer/Engineer) turned me on to it, and in fact showed me the mod himself. Remember, as the unit is doing EXPANSION to the signal that falls below the threshold…. Send LESS inout gain, the more you want the expansion effect. Just raise the return fader to compensate for level. WHEN you send audio that is over the threshold, No Expansion (thus No Effect) takes place. It’s purpose was to boost low level, high frequency info - the mind that tape hiss would mask. Then, on playback the reverse happens. The same frequency bands are lowered… which in turn lowers the tape his. Of course, we’re only interested in the encoding process. Again… awesome RUclips video on a subject that’s been to well hidden. Cheers.
That’s awesome info! Thanks for the kind words too. I’d love to get my hands on a modified version of the 361 with variable threshold control. I’ve seen pics of some very tricked out modules capable of very clever signal manipulation but not yet in person.
@@JMLRecording raising & lowering signal input is equivalent to lowering & raising the threshold.
Yes! And I saw somebody modify one that also had the ability to control the four bands, allowing you to attenuate 30 Hz to 1 kHz on the face of the module, or play with different variations of compression! Very cool. Thx again ❤️
I want a few of these but to use them as is as a noise reduction device. Didn’t know people did mods to them, that’s sick
Nice! Yea we did neglect to mention ton they actually make incredible noise reduction modules for their initial purpose. I have a red modular controller with variable slider control that improves SNR and it does a wonderful job with my Studer tape machine.
@@JMLRecordingI’m so jealous that you have a Studer, I want an A80 2” 16 track so badly but there’s no way I could justify blowing that much… But yes I want the Dolby’s for my Tascam 90-19 1” 16 track machine. It would allow me to slow down the to half and save a tone on tape
When you slam a quality tape machine like that into oblivion and realize how constraining all the restrictions and inhibitions that digital false frequencies and aliases impose on you in the DAW, you never go back :) I learned tape from Russel Elevado at electric lady studios (“the dragon”) and instantly recognize that he doesn’t just use tape because it’s cool, he uses tape because it sounds (*saturates) exponentially better. You can pry Ampex mastering for my cold, dead hands haha
@@JMLRecording Exactly, bro it’s so cool to hear from other people who get this… I don’t get why there’s even an argument about it. I hate this “why would you use tape, my DAW can do everything a Studer can and more” or the “the only reason why prefer tape is because they grew up with it”… I’m gen-z, I’m not an analog native, I found this out on my own. It’s not nostalgia, I’m not biased, I just took a chance on it and realized what it is capable of. I could go on for days about what recording, mixing, and mastering on tape has done for my music but biggest thing is grit. There’s nothing like driving a Neve straight into tape. We sacrificed a lot when we switched to in the box recording and mixing
That’s right. Even if people are making music that ends up streaming, as most music does these days, to have begun slamming tape is such a unique advantage over the polished digital stuff we are used to now. It’s so funny to me all these “saturation plugins” and tape emulation solutions out there when you can still procure a decent physical tape machine quite cheap and go so much further with it. I’m a fan of the old Japanese tape machines such as Otari, for instance. The mx505 mkii is a BEAST and requires almost zero maintenance. That machine sounds phenomenal and will last a lifetime. Meanwhile, a MONO Rupert Neve designs 500 series “emulator” module costs almost as much and is half as cool. Baffling
Very informative and enjoyable video. Cheers 🙂
Glad you enjoyed it my friend! Give me a sub, I'm making one on the Altec 436 this week you'll love. Thanks again
New subscriber .... great video
Thanks my friend, means a lot. I was wondering if these videos mean anything to anyone but it’s cool to see people enjoying this obscure audio history like I do :) thank you
Now I have a clearer understanding of Robert Scovills use of this trick on Geddy Lee's voice when he did live sound for Rush for a number of years.. but he used the much larger rack unit model 301 with the low process cards pulled...used as an exciter mainly on vocals and acoustic gtr...sounds wonderful!!
wow I learn something new everyday thats amazing!! I wonder if thats a direct inspiration between them you found?? I bet it is. More research! More Chi! Well done homie
You worked with Russell! Thats awesome! Hes one of my favs!
Yes very briefly but I did get to help out on an Al Green session with Questlove, the Dave Chapel Block Party soundtrack he did and a couple other amazing projects. He is the nicest engineer I've ever known. Chatted recently w him at a Electric Garden studio party in BK and he was as nice and down to earth as ever ❤
AMAZING WORK BRO!!!
Thank you very much Los Ficos you rock ❤
Really Great clear info ! I've been using this trick for years and it is my secret weapon . You have explained it clearer than anybody . Great work . ct
thanks man! Its comments like these that tell me im not completely wasting my time lol - thank you Chris xx
Fascinating stuff! I’m a fan. You’re clearly knowledgeable and passionate. FYI, the Noveltech Vocal thing on Plug-in Alliance does something similar, but way easier to overuse. I like this better. Overload makes an emulation too. But ain’t nothing like the real thing baby!
Amazing Video man... I need to check out your studio setup..
Anytime JMLrecording.com
this piece makes my mono synths sound killer!! awesome vid! I fully understand this beast now.. ty✌
Once your synths goes Vocalstressor, it will never go back. It's incredible what the stretch mod does for synth. Good on ya!
Yes I'm a fan of all of this
Thanks!
@3:20 easy to mod the lights with LED but personally I"m not a fan of the LED look but if you need it to glow ;)
Yea to each their own. Nothing wrong w that :) if you have a modern LED studio I could see it being cool. Personally my studio has a Persian rug, vintage vibe so not my bag
Great video! I just received a modified cat22 card from you. It sounds incredible, thank you!
Awesome man!! Try that thing on keys and even guitar (especially acoustic w a darker ribbon). You'll NEVER go back. Unbelievable.
great video! would you pair it with SE ELECTRONICS RNT microphone?
An interesting idea my friend however I might not on that particular mic only because the RNT is a condenser mic similar to the C800G vibe, which is already kinda bright and much more forward than a moving coil dynamic like the sm7(b). I glanced at the RNT’s frequency chart and it looks to have a +5db bump starting at 6khz all the way to the top at 20k so the top two bands of comp the 361 provides would probably be too much sauce on the highs. However I’m sure in SOME scenarios they would sound great together! But my gut reaction is no. LDC’s often do not need high end boosts (especially low-mid range LDC’s), and can even require a taming of the bright top. Mic manufacturers these days lean towards clarity instead of vibe and end up with very shrill and bright top ends which many seasoned engineers don’t like, myself included (gimme an RCA44 or Altec Birdcage any day). While the Dolby trick doesn’t necessarily boost the high end per se, it does give the illusion that it is doing so and would brighten the shrill range that LDC’s need taming (5k-15k). Again, it may be cool in the right application but the 361 shines best (imho) on dynamic mics, ribbons, gtrs, synth and bass, in that order for me. Conversely, I don’t like the 361 on female vox too much, drum OH’s, LDC’s, SDC’s or bright percussion like Tambo or cymbals. Hope that helps. All the best bud!! Thx for the comment too ❤️✌️
@@JMLRecording thanks a lot for the detailed comment!
Sounds great with the acoustic guitar, we can notice the difference, way better than with the 'voice'!
Right?? Engineers like you are catching on. Just like smart mastering engineers use multiband compression instead of EQ's to fix mix issues, this is a mix engineers secret weapon to bring pretty much any source forward in a mix without pushing something else out of the way in the frequency spectrum. We are slightly limited by the 4 fixed bands Dolby chose though, so here's the million dollar idea: create a mod for the 361 (or even better, the stereo 365 or 362) to allow adjustable frequency variation on a potentiometer for all 4 bands (or at least Q sweeps)! Maybe someone has already done this? I've seen some pretty wild mods out there already. If not, I would looooove to make a video with someone that can make one! I would sponsor that build for sure.
I am interested in one of your cards but may i ask, what exactly is the point of the mod? I dont really understand it. Wouldnt you want the lower bands engaged so the vocal wouldnt be muddy? What is the difference between your mod and a normal cat 22?
Hey man good question. So you don’t want to compress the low end because it sucks the life and body out of the lower frequencies. It ads a lot of air and lift by limiting dynamic range. People often pair darker ribbon mics placed next to a LDC to fill in lower information missing by brighter, more contemporary LSC’s (or even SEC’s). Dolby A splits the audio spectrum into four bands, applying varying amounts of compression to each band. When you compress the lower end you’re limiting that low end information and reducing dynamic range, therefore loosing the body and fullness of the vocal. Lifting the high end sounds pleasing. Not so much on low end, so engineers removed lower two bands to retain body and add air to top.
@@JMLRecording so basically so you can use it direct, opposed to parallel? sorry i was not notified that you commented. And its funny that you say “lifeless”. I produced a practice mix yesterday, 2 track. I ran the lead, via send through a 361 with unmodified cat. 22. Then i mixed the return signal with a parallel compression track. I kept the dry lead very quiet, as the 361 sounds really good, its a bit scary. So i exported the mix like that and sent it through a master site. It sounded so good to me and everyone who listened said it sounds great. I listened to it so much yesterday! Then tonight when i listened, i notice how flat and bodyless it sounds in comparison to some industry songs lol. It doesnt sound horrible but now i completely believe that i understand this mod fr lol. Need that body! Just gotta eq and compress the mud myself i see lol
@@raykash1673 hey brother, yes the unit imparts a slight boost in overall gain and body just apssing through the unit without the NR IN button engaged. In fact, the 362, which is a stereo version of the 361 has a calibrate knob that you pull out to adjust gain staging!
I have 4 and love them to death. Never parting with my 361s. I do however need the switch lens for the version that has the “set up” switch. Missing (white lens)does anyone know where I can get one?!
Hiya - To my knowledge, no one reproduces them :/ I have cannibalized a broken one for all the little parts like that in the past. What I've also done is put one of the other colors on the missing button (all you need is the far left two anyway) and then cover the empty hole with colored electrical tape. It'll last decades and looks real clean believe it or not. Otherwise, get a donor unit and cannibalize it. If you're handy with a dremmel you should definitely be able to fab a lens from acrylic too! Or just sell your 4 361's and get two stereo 365's (or 362's) hahaha! Lastly, keep in mind that the earlier 361's and later versions varied drastically in the lens design. One were U shaped and the later ones were flat panels that won't fit. Anyway... Good luck my friend!
@@JMLRecording yeah the one I need is the u shape lens. Thanx a mill. Yeah the 362 and 365s are niiiiiice. I almost got the 360s but someone snagged it, but that’s ok I’m fine with 4 361s. They will be enough to get the job done hahahaha
@@JMLRecordingwell looks like I gotta purchase the clear cover and some cards. I didn’t know you can use the foot switch
@@damesystemexec4161 I got you, I even do LED internal mods behind the clear plexi for guys who like that vibe. Let me know! LutzMultimedia.com
not trying to nitpick..but you can use contact cleaner on fader but you have to find a lubricant to utlize with it as it will create more friction without the 'formula'.. sometimes you have to improvise. even without the lubricant you can get that channel clean for the time being.
Interesting! May very well be true however tech rule of thumb is that contact cleaner removes the film of lubricant from the plastic tracks, causing rapid wear. It also dries out the wipers of potentiometers and rapidly wrecks them too. I was always taught to never use contact cleaner on pots, tactile buttons, switches or faders. Use only fader cleaner/lube on faders. Yes, it may temporary clean up some noise here or there but you’re destroying your gear over time. My recommendation to viewers remains to buy some fader lube and always keep on hand. Contact cleaner is ONLY for points of contact (ie xlr, trs, TS, db25, elco, etc)
Whats the difference between this and the 361? Thanks
Good question. The only difference is that the 360 has remote control option and monitor control. Niether of which you need to achieve the Dolby Trick. The difference between the 362 and 365 is that the 362 is 1U and the 365 is 2U. For studio use of the vocalstressor application any will do the exact same thing as long as you utilize a modified cat22. Cheers - JML
So when you are speaking, are you running it parallel or direct? And how do you wire it. I purchased two of them and im not sure if i am wiring them correctly. Your help would be greatly appreciated!
Hi - I'm running out of a Neve 1073, direct into the Dolby (via a patchbay). So on the back there are a few sets of XLR I/O. Use the Use "Line In" for input and "To Record" for output for simple Dolby trick usage. Hope that helps brother. Pls share my video and sub! Thx Ray ~ JML
Thank you so much for that speedy response. May i ask one more question, why is it that so many people recommend running it parallel, if it sounds so good direct? Is it to save some of the body of the lead vocal or something? But when u have the mod, not touching the low and mid bands, wouldn’t it work perfectly direct? Maybe i just answered my own question but please confirm that if so. Thank you!
That a great question. I have another 3 part video called “ultimate 15 mixing tips” and #8 is by far the most important, “if it sounds good, it is good”. Go with your gut, my friend. Listen to it with a separate dry track in parallel and then listen to it by itself and whichever one sounds best for the song you’re working on, just go with it man. There is no right way (this applies to absolutely every rule in the book imho). This unit has been used on hundreds of iconic recordings in BOTH ways.
I might just add to that that if the effect sounds too dramatic, like the high end is a little bit too airy and shrill, THEN try balancing it with a dry, parallel application. Otherwise if it sounds great once folded INTO the mix by itself, run with it alone. Trust your ears brother! All the very best
Amazing. Thank you brother! Stay blessed
You too man. Hope you enjoy my other vids too! Take care and happy recording ✌️
A 414 EB with a brass capsule, in good working order, should need very little to no help in the high end. Though the Dolby trick will probably work pretty well with a nylon capsule EB, which (to me), despite popular claims, is quite a nice microphone.
I would agree entirely. I would almost never use the Dolby trick on any condenser microphone at all. I primarily use it on dynamics and occasionally ribbons. I don’t know anyone who would think a Brass capsule 414 EB is not a good microphone; it is mostly regarded as one of the greatest mics ever made, next to its big brother the C12 (or C24). Most of he EB mics are phenomenal, especially the old 451’s. So good…
@@JMLRecording I was referring to people not liking the nylon capsule EBs. Towards the end of the 70s, when people would send their original EBs (or Combs) to AKG for service, and the capsule needed replacing, AKG would replace the brass capsule with their new nylon capsule. When people got their mics back from AKG, they sounded completely different. While a brass capsule EB sounds noticeably more beautiful than the nylon version, it doesn't mean the nylon version is bad. I get great results using nylon capsule EBs and Combs on vocals and piano. But I will say the original brass capsule 414s are the best sounding large diaphragm solid state mics ever made, as far as I'm concerned. Big fan of the channel BTW!
@JeroBagg oh haha sorry brother, I misread. but yes, I would emphatically agree with you once again. I have some newer 414s here here that I adore and that sound great on all kinds of sources. I also have a C24 with the CK12 Brass capsules and it obviously sounds great. I’m pretty much anything. But they’re all great mics for sure. Tha ks for the support!
very cool
Last channel on orange unit... 3khz to how high? 20khz?
Hi bud, not sure what you mean by that question, sorry. The Orange 55 amp I made is 15/7 Watts switchable and can handle 1×8 OHM, 1×16 OHM or 2×16 OHM. Is that what you wanted to know? Thx
Can you do repair work on a 361?
I don’t typically repair the modules, no. I can do the modification on the card if you’d like. Www.JMLrecording.com
*they also used it on EASY LOVER entire mix*
Oh wow I didn’t know that! I think after Swedien used it all engineers took notice. Everyone from John Lennon to Queen employed it. There was a point when the world called this the “Lennon Trick” too!
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Instant best sub ever!! ❤️✌️
I finally found a great emulation….”Type A” by Audio Thing. Thinking of selling my 361’s (and several modded and un modded cards.’
Yes! Audio Thang plug is great. Thanks for mentioning. I was shocked when it dropped because I wasn’t aware this old noise reduction unit was on the radar like that. I think I mentioned it in this video briefly too.
I’ve compared “Type A” plugin to my outboard 361’s (and stereo 362 & 365’s). I should have A-B’d it against the outboard in this video, sorry. IMHO the plug (like most plugins) is almost there but not quite. Binary code vs analog components is an age old debate so I digress, but it does seem that the analog 361 is still a bit punchier, fuller and better at lifting the source up and out front in a mix. I also noticed the sheen the analog 361 gives has a tiny bit more color and warmth than the plugin, which I like. Both are a great solution. Having said that, like most audio nerd nuances, 90% of earbud endusers can’t tell the difference and don’t care. The plug is an awesome plugin for ITB guys and worth every penny. Great comment!
@@JMLRecording yeah, that’s cool, and common. I don’t think about those small shortcomings of DAW tech to OG analog, because I love all the other things that come with the process. At the end of the mix, if you did your job right, those small differences within the context of the mix become irrelevant.
@@JMLRecordingdo an AB comparison video between plug and hardware please
Would you use 2 dolby 361s for mastering? Im just wondering would that be a thing?
What's up Ray! Short answer is no. Long answer is... maybe? I say no simply because the "stretched" Cat22 cards would be compressing about 1K-5K without any parameter control. They'd be limiting your dynamic range beyond what a mastering engineer would probably do. However, like all projects, try and see! Happy accidents through experimentation is often a key of a great mix. While I certainly wouldn't recommend leaving stereo 361's on your mix bus permanently, it may actually sound cool on the RIGHT project. Synth guru Hanz Volt leaves a pair on his synth bus at all times and swears by them. Daft Punk uses a crap-tastic Alesis 3630 on their synth bus (yikes) so who are we to hammer down an unorthodox thought? Could be cool for a unique sheen on the mid-highs of a dark mix?
As they say, "If it sounds good, it is good." Toa De Ching literally translates to, "The way called the way is not the way" for this exact reason. Mix engineers could use a bit of that ancient wisdom now and again ;) Best advice I ever got was from Ric Ocasek at Electric Lady right before he passed. He told me simply, "just use your ears kid."
@@JMLRecording thank you much bro! I really appreciate you
Interesting, unfortunatly, we don't have access to your modifications in Europe...
About acoustic guitars, In my experience, nothing beats M/S technique...!
Alan Bluemin was so far ahead of his time there should be a statue of him in front of every studio :) Right on!
cool man
a SM7"B was not used. It was a a OG SM7. Good vid though!
Of course my friend, sm7b was invented in 2003 so I am pretty sure I mentioned the sm7. My bad if that wasn’t clear - cheers
Prices on these are getting super silly. I actually missed out on a pair two weeks ago for $30 by like an hour lol, I kinda cried a little. It was just a one day sale a studio was holding to raise money for someone in the crew, but yeah, I was pretty bummed. That was obv a crazy deal, but yeah prices have gotten ridiculous, like with a lot of stuff, and people shouldn't enable that crap, like $1200-2000 for one unit, and un serviced most of the time. Id say considering the days of $100-200 units are over, and wasn't even long ago, $300-500 a unit is more than realistic. The thing is, crazy prices aren't just supply, and demand. It's hype for one thing, and two, greedy flippers post a crazy price, and they sit until theres no other one's at the same time, and then it forces people to panic buy, or get FOMO, because they feel like if they don't jump on it, then they won't get it for that price again, because the next dude just makes up a new crazy price. I personally have gear that I've seen go up 4-5x the price in just a few years, and to the point where it's like insane. Also, as a seller, I could take advantage, and list it for what certain people are paying, but I wouldn't do that. To me its just not down to earth, and only still enabling that type of selling tactic. I'd be totally fine selling for what stuff should be worth, to someone who needs it, and will use it to make records. People can do what they want, but to many people just justify insane prices IMO. This stuffs meant to use to make music, and records, not be some collectors item. I don't even mean the 361 per say, but like an La3a for like $10,000 kinda thing lol. Anyway, I found a pair of 361's finally today. Paying $600 for the pair, and thats totally reasonabke IMO, and seller agrees to. He could have just listed them for $1000 each if he wanted, but we both feel the same about the prices.
I agree. And 1-2k for a stock 361 is insane. I sell modified ones for around 1k but I’ve also put in 8hrs of time and my bench rate is $125 am hour so I feel that’s very fair. I rarely pay more for $700 for one in Oct 2024. But I also see them going up… as inflation continues to obliterate the economy. Gonna be the top talking point of the election, I guarantee you that!! Cheers on the pair for 600, I but a lot of these and can tell you, that’s an insane deal. Goon on ya!
@@JMLRecording Yea man. If you fully serviced a unit thats reasonable for sure. That's the thing though, is it's not always just inflation, well it can be in a way, but that's also what people use to justify more, and more insane prices. Also, inflation is real, I agree, but things haven't went up 3,4,5 times the price from 4-5 years ago, not even 10 years ago. Some stuff has definitely doubled, maybe a bit more, but the gear market is just so over saturated with flippers, and the lines get so blurred between what something should be worth, economy, supply/demand etc. It's all over the place. Also, people who buy gear, and are engineers should realize that the more you ask for stuff, only makes inflation higher in the market in the end, but if you're just a picker/flipper, then they don't care, and just keep pushing the boundaries.
Anyway, I'm totally ranting. Sorry. On another note, I really want to find one of those remotes. Can you let me know if you ever get one in?
Thanks man! Yeah, it's def a very fair deal I'd say. I def think he's being nice for sure. He's an engineer up in Cali, but he also knows what they are going for which ATM you can find them for $600-700 a piece, but he feels like it's a bit silly, esp un serviced. Like just 4-5 years ago, and for decades before they were like $100-300 a piece, probably $50 a piece 10 years ago hah. Also, there's no shortage of these things. I do side with you though in that $1000 for a serviced/recapped unit is fine. I was willing to pay $600-700 tops for an unserviced unit, but just would have bought one for now if that was the case.
Oh, question. I'll be doing this myself, but wanted to ask, have you compared a unit directly with any plugins? I was using the Overloud one a lot in my mixes, and really really loved it, actually think it's kinda flying under the radar a bit, but just wondering if you haven't tried it, I'd be really curious to hear your thoughts on how you think it compares to a hardware 361.
Yea I not only recap the units but I do the stretch mod, the vOcalstressor mod and then calibrate and tune em up. I also clean/debug them. I often swap old bad wiring and often swap the oval jacks for IEC. Bulbs are usually out too. Do the math: : I pay 600 for a unit plus 8hrs at $125 an hour bench time. I should be selling them for 2k each but I usually do 1k-1200. That’s very fair. Keep in mind I’ll go through 3 or 4 cat 22 “as-is” cards on eBay before I get a good one and the traces are notoriously easily wrecked as soon as you touch them with like 280 degrees of heat from a variable heat soldering iron so I’ll usually wreck one or two (or 4) before I get one exactly right. It’s not a cheap process.
@@JMLRecording I mean, I totally agree with you on the 1-1.2K thing if your paying $600, and putting in all that work. You saying you should be selling them for $2000 is kind of where I not disagree, like obv you could do that, but that's just where my opinion, and practices would vary. I think that's silly hah, but if you disagree I mean hey, all good. I could go on another rant, but I won't lol.
So, when you recap these, are you replacing every single capacitor, like even the tantalum ones, or just the square film ones, or? In the unit, and cards they mainly only use the two types right? I'm honestly just looking for advice, because I may do mine as well. I know with a lot of audio gear I have that has electrolytics, but also some polyester, or film caps, I tend to only do the electrolytics, and leave the older poly/Films, because I find them to last a lot longer, and also can impart some character sometimes, but because they are old lol. I dunno if it's just because they are darker, or more worn, but have had a few people give me that advice, to do the electro's, but leave the Poly/Films. That said, doesn't look like these use any Electrolytic's, and just mainly tantalum, and and film? Also, are you replacing all the resistors, and fet's ect, or just the caps mainly? I know it's not always cut, and dry like that, but assuming nothings weird, or discoloured, or out of spec to much. Also, assuming you replace all the caps, what do you tend to like in place of the Tantalums, and the others, just the same, or? Could you even fit something like film Wima's in the place of the Tant's?
@jamescassidy4045 film in auto path. High spec. Electrolytic do exist in power supply section, tantalum are for very precise filtering/decoupling in audio circuits. Lots of components in these fail so while I usually only service parts that NEED to be serviced, there’s exceptions to gear like this. having worked on over 100 of these I’ve come to recognize what is problematic so I preemptively take care of them while I’m in there. The traces on these are notoriously fragile like old russian mic PCB’s so keep your heat very low on your iron. I find that These are not easy to work on at all and wrecked 2 or 3 cat 22’s for everyone I was able to mod in the early days of modifying them. Dolby changed suppliers quite a bit during the 2+ decades they made these and I’ve come to recognize what parts will last or fail based on pcb color, resistor brand and other visual cues. There’s very few turnkey 361’s out there, or at least consistent sounding units to make a relatively close matched pair out of. This is why I prefer the 365 or 362 models myself. The 362 is the king of them all because it has two pots with volume control and I drive sources in some very unique and cool ways you can’t do with the 361 or 365’s. I also love to use other encoding/decoding cards/methods with these that has given me very unique tricks in the studio most people have never heard before. The cat22 is only one trick up my sleeve here :) bottom line, each one sounds quite different and each card does too. You can do it though! Have fun
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i think i give this try and test with my Dolby Stereo CP200 , R109 , R209 , but agree 10:41 shouldn't whore the products lol
i see if makes a difference with some laserdiscs theatrical mixes , as blu 4k really whore the products with near field mixes maybe why so many blu uhd atmos upmixes or blu discs really sound like been raped of dynamic range lol#
its not scientific due to never be able to make same vocal sound twice 10:48 should use , pink noise to notice the sound difference
11:56 i seen 361 cheaper than fish and chips , but since 2020 i seen prices go greedy , no longer fish and chips , rare find sellers that are fish and chips , sell them at fish and chips
12:28 what like shove mj inside like pushing a resistor with voltage ? lol
i wonder now if same trick can be done with Dolby SR cards , so many cat meow , SR cards ? 280 , 280t , 350
Hi thanks for the comment. While a bit hard to decipher, I agree with some of what you said. Veeeeery interesting comment about the pink noise and I'd like to offer a fun, nerdy answer and push back on this a bit, if you'll allow it. While it's true pink noise would have showed better results on a spectral analyzer, a human speaking voice is far better to HEAR the difference, which was most important to me. Modern humans evolved from Africa 200,000 years ago and from then till now, the human ear has evolved around one thing: to prioritize the ability to hear the human speaking voice (not pink noise) above all noises. Mother nature's priority was survival and communication.
Fascinating fact about this is that professional piano tuners actually tune low notes sharp and high notes flat because our ears are actually trying to pull all frequencies to the center to where human speaking voice frequencies occur! Even most musicians are unaware of how erroneously off pitch our ears are to this phenomenon. Again, this is because our brains prioritize human speech and have evolved around it.
The frequency spectrum of pink noise is linear in logarithmic scale & has equal power in bands that are proportionally wide. Although pink noise contains all of audible frequencies (20Hz - 20Khz), we don't hear all of them equally AT ALL and are not "tuned" to them either. That's why it's called "noise" and why I do not agree that it would be useful for musical analysis. I wanted people to truly "hear" the difference by using the human speaking voice (85Hz-255Hz), which is most familiar to us for thousands of years. I also could have printed the same recording but... who cares. It's not a mic shootout.
Having said all that, if I made the video again I'd add both speaking voice and pink noise to have all info! Good idea for next time, thanks.
As far as me taking exactly 8 seconds for advertising my products, I'm a content creator and I sell stuff so... sorry not sorry :)
Regarding SR cards, I DO use them often for a variety of mix tricks! Not the same but still quite useful indeed. That would make for another great video, thanks for bringing that up!
All the best - Joshua
*So basically IT AN EQ! You should be able to achieve the exact same results with an inexpensive long throw 12db-/+ 31 BAND GRAPHIC EQ and a multiband compressor.*
Don't talk sh!t on DBX 160's. There's a reason they use them.
Hahaha I know I know. I was busting balls. Aphex Twin used a ton of Alesis outboard to make great records. None of this matters ;) Its how you use it!
John Lennon trick, blah blah blah and so on with useless talk. All what I hear is an (orrendous) emphasis of high frequencies, nothing that can't be achieved with a simple eq. or any crap multiband compressor plugin.
While a sardonic comment is tolerated, false ones are not. It is false that the Dolby 361 system can simply be replicated by a generic multiband compressor or EQ plug-in. Allow me to address your comment:
1. Noise Reduction Technology is not the same as a "crappy plugin" at all nor can you get the same result. The Dolby system was a noise reduction unit, which used a process called "Dolby A-type" noise reduction that uniquely encoded and decoded audio in a way that reduced tape hiss by compressing specific frequency bands during recording and expanding them during playback. This is NOT AT ALL something a typical multiband compressor or EQ is designed to do nor can you get the same result. These Dolby's used four frequency bands, each treated completely DIFFERENTLY to handle noise reduction. You cannot achieve the same effect with a "crappy plugin" or MBC. If it sounds the same to you, your ears or your D/A rig are to be questioned.
2. The encoding and decoding process works NOTHING like an EQ/plugin. Mostly because it's a unique 2 step process, not a linear pass of audio like an EQ or MBC. Like I say in the video, it's very similar... but not same.
- Encoding during recording: Certain frequencies are compressed and dynamic range is reduced.
- Decoding during playback: Those same frequencies are then expanded on the way out, which reduces the noise floor while preserving the original dynamic range. Sharply against your point, a regular multiband compressor or EQ doesn't do this type of encoding/decoding at all. They just apply static frequency adjustments or dynamic range control without the noise reduction process so again, not the same thing nor the same result. Similar but not same.
3. Linear Phase and Precision is another totally unique feature a "crappy plugin" is not doing. These Dolby's operate with very precise algorithms designed to manage noise WITHOUT coloring the sound (or making it "orrendous" as you put it). Your "crappy plugins" introduce phase shift or coloration, which degrades the audio making it... well... crap. Dolby systems are engineered to work seamlessly with professional analog tape machines, handling noise reduction in a transparent way that multiband compressors and EQs can’t replicate. So again, not the same at all.
4. Tape-Specific Technology is not the same as crappy MBC plugins or Eq at all. The Dolby 361 was designed specifically to address issues with analog tape recordings. The noise reduction system is tightly integrated with the characteristics of tape like tape hiss & saturation. A plugin that isn’t built with tape characteristics in mind is nothing like the Dolby. So again, not the same.
The Dolby trick involves both compression AND expansion in a way that is specific to tape-based workflows and nothing like a crappy MBC plugin so how exactly can you easily achieve the same result? Please be scientific in your answer. A crap plug, no matter how good, doesn't replicate that combination of frequency-specific dynamic range control and noise reduction tailored to analog tape. If it sounds the same to your ears, well... I have no comment about your ears. All the best.
@@JMLRecording You put things in my mouth that I did not say. i did not say that the functions of a compander like Dolby A can be replicated by a simple multiband plugin, of course cannot. I said that the SOUND RESULT you get with your silly "Dolby trick" (a misuse of the compressing section of the Dolby unit) is no more than what you get with a treble enhancement with a properly set eq or multiband compressor plugin. I am 60 years old and work currently with Studer, Telefunken and Tascam machines; Dolby A/SR, Telcom C4 and DBX of all kinds. I don't need to have you explain to me what a compander is. As for ears you keep yours and I keep mine.