6 Sept as ‘Defence of Pakistan Day’: 1965 war, rival myths & leadership lesson from fighter pilots
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- Опубликовано: 5 сен 2023
- #CutTheClutter #IndiaPakistanWar1965
Pakistan marks 6 September as ‘Defence of Pakistan Day’, to honour what it describes as a milestone moment in the 1965 war - mostly to celebrate what it sees as its air force’s many ‘successes’. In Ep XX of Cut The Clutter, Editor-in-Chief Shekhar Gupta looks back at the war that no side won, the Sargodha strike, and tries to separate fact from fiction, including a difficult question about the IAF’s performance, & brings a leadership lesson from fighter pilots.
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on september 7,1965 Pakistan Airforce attacked forward Indian Airoforce bases and destroyed many planes and bases like halwara , amritsir , adampur and pathankot were destroyed. Pathankot airbase was completely destroyed and lost 22 aircraft on the ground. In 1965 Pakistan Airforce jets like F.86 and F.104 were equipped with night fighting capability , missiles and were super sonic and none of the IAF jets were equipped with these capabilites thus IAF was no match for the PAF . Two IAF jets also landed and surrendered with thier working jets. one knat and one mystere. one of the pilot was brijpaul who became the IAF chief after. In the sea Indian navy didnt even dare to challenge any Pak navy ships . Indian navy was scared of Pakistani submarine . India used world war two era tanks and thier shells were not strong enough to penetrate patton tanks . however Patton tanks targetted with more powerful guns and destroyed number of Old Indian tanks like it was another practice day for them. IAF jets were fallling of the sky like flies and Indian navy decided not die like fish so many Indian navy ships didnt leave their docks even when dwarka naval station was under attack. we won 1965 and could cause more damage if Lal Bahadri didnt run to Russia
@theprintmedia what's "Episode XX" in the description?
@@taxidon4947one can agree that paf did good in 65 war. But your objective of capturing Indian land wasn’t met and as you were the first to attack, you didn’t achieved any objectives of the war.
One question, how the heck is that victory without any gains?😂
@@Arunh9-pw7lp Well first of all there was nothing wrong we did by trying to gain Kashmir back since its our land . in 1965 we had achieved the total air superiory of the 19th day of the war and Our Navy went unchallenged in the Sea since your Vikrant and other ships had sailed towards karela coast. As we all know the one who gains Air superiority will eventually win the war and thats exactly when lal shastri ran to Russia and created a ceasfire with the Russian Help. We may not have gained our first objective of Kashmir but we did complete our objectives of decimating , pathankot , srinagar ,adampur , halwara airfields and our navy decimated the Dwurka naval station o n Gujrat. Indian extablishment knew that with the help of Air and sea superiorty , the Indian army was going to be decimated on the Ground by the PAF. However PAF'S F.86 , C130'S and B57 did destroy multiple Indian Army tanks and Vehicles on the ground and if that continued till september 30th , not alot was going to be left of the Indian army without the Air and Sea cover . the fact that Nehru ran to UN first in 1948 and lAL shastri made his way to Russia first in 1965 led us to think that we won the both 1948 and 1965 wars. Makes any sense now ? 🙂
@@taxidon4947 Good job. Toh...mil gaya Kashmir? Koi na, koi na, shabaash. Believe in yourself.
We get stronger by accepting the truth, no matter how unpleasant it may be!
Apparently not; No explanation yet from IAF why was IAF so underprepared immediately after Balakot strike? Why were Mig 21s deployed in the border not mig 29s or other superior systems?
Same unsubstantiated claims of shooting down of F-16!!!
@@-Neutron-Star thats the problem. we dont see IAF coming forward and talk about its failure on27/2 and how smartly Pakistan Air Force surprised IAF that day. Its only the civilians doing it. India needs to understand that PAF is constantly on alert status since 1971 unlike IAF which never had any real threat from Russia / Afghanistan or Israel planning air strikes on its nuclear installations. And that has help PAF in adapting to real threats, new technologies and tactics...Im sure IAF has not forgotten how successfully its cockpits were Radio Jammed on 27/2 !!
@@SajidKhan-mf8ts lawde aata mil nahi Raha tumhe baatain gaand mey say nikal nikal k krte rehte ho...Salli army tumhari tumhara Desh kha gai hai tumlog chutiye he rahogey
@@-Neutron-Starthey actually produced American missiles and other proofs after the opposition started saying they didn't shoot one down so I think they substantiated it enough
Truth hurts and bharatis can't take the pain any more.
Just a small military trivia - There were 4 Anglo Indians Air Force pilots from one school in Lucknow, La Martiniere - who all got medals for the war. 2 were the famous Keelor brothers.
Hail hail the name we own, is it?
Good for you, champ.
Every Pakistani knows that 65 war was started by the Pakistani establishment. 😢
technically no
@@user-hp9ui6sl6u they always overhyped their jazba and imaan. By the way we had museum pieces that were flown against the most advanced fighters in the world, flown by PAF..the starfighter and sabres armed with sidewinder missiles and night flying capabilities. This encouraged your delusional generals into trying to snatch kashmir from India...lol..finally they had to resort to fake heroes like Alam who is credited with 5 kills in 28 seconds...lol..how can you guys be so foolish in your hatred for India is astounding.
@@user-hp9ui6sl6u yeah... So brave.. Saw China crush an unprepared and pacifist India in 1962.. Got some weird ideas.. Prepared for 3 years and your god generals started something on their own designs... Got their asses handed to them.. Ruined their economy.. But didn't learn their lesson. Continued the same with every new god general till 1999..and completely ruined any prospects of ever having a strong economic back bone while India stands tall.
So brave...
*slow claps.
@@user-hp9ui6sl6u Lookin at how their economy is right now, guts really got Pakistani's far didn't it?
@@cultcitysaadagree usa the main pakistani allah has best jets
Just a factual correction, 6th Sep is celebrated as defense day in Pakistan as on this date Indian army crossed the international border and attached Lahore-Kasure. The attack on Sargodha came on 7th Sep, which is celebrated as Air Force Day in Pak.
Brilliant analysis. We should always be a realist to become the best. But if Pakistan was in our situation of strength they would’ve attacked us. Like they did in 65, when our economy was weak and we were battered after 62 loss. Critical lesson: maintain position of strength so no one should think of attacking directly
As a Pakistani i totally agree with your point of view. We can not claim victory because the objective of war was not achieved at all by us.
In reality it was a stalemate with no major territorial changes between both the countries.
@@warnpassion India can claim victory because Pakstan had launched agression by starting operation Gibraltar and Grandslam with the objectives to take control of kashmir and India defended the kashmir successfully.
It really rare to find Pakistani who accept the fact. Other wise Paksitani Claim that India had attcked and Paksitan won.
And the funniest thing is that they say this even after knowing about the operation Grandslam and Gibraltar
"Smart people learn
from everything and
everyone, average people from their
experiences, stupid
people already have all
the answers."
- Socrates
muhammad had all the answers, didn’t he?
He thought he had ,was he right yes, according to him
My maternal grandad was a Major in the Indian Artillery in 1965 on the West Pakistan front in Punjab side and is one of those people who had his photo clicked of his own outside the Barkee Police station along with some people in civilian clothes , two of whom were my eldest aunts as at that time my family was living in Amritsar who got an opportunity to go up the captured areas . If Barkee was where it was safe enough for soldiers and civilians to click a picture , the actual front line would have been further up in Lahore ....
it was further up in Lahore, my Grandfather's younger brother was part of mechanized brigade which had already reached outskirts of Lahore but were called back out fear that this was a pakistani trap to lure them further in then cut off their exit which never happened
@@aruji-sama 👏👏
3 Jat reached Batapur, before their inexplicable recall by a timorous Brigade and Divisional HQ got cold feet.
The extraordinary thing is that when some days later, after the Pakistanis had dug in very well, and had well-guarded positions, they were sent in again, and took several positions in the face of unrelenting machine gun fire. Cold-blooded courage.
The second battle was called the Battle of Dograi, and is still remembered with great respect by the Indian Army.
1965 war was not only air war but also land war where India fared much better by advancing in Punjab and bringing Lahore in the range of Indian artillery.
Jinna's objection to India being called India is a stupid considering its a fact that Pakistan was in fact the breakaway part. India didn't demand a separate state for one community.
But you did. The fake secularism is shed for good. Now it's Bharat- the invented name of Hindu nations.
Jinnah knew of the geo-political weight of the name "India". The entire region was called "Indian subcontinent", there is an ocean named "Indian Ocean", the region sits on an "Indian tectonic plate", many species of animals and birds are named after "India" like the Indian leopard, Indian peacock, Indian rhinoceros, Indian elephant etc.. And there has always been an "India" described in Western historiography right from the time of ancient Greeks and Romans. And by virtue of retaining the name "India", the new republic became identified with all this and became the legal successor of British Raj in international forums and treaties. By comparison, there is no mention of a "Pakistan" anywhere before 1930s. Jinnah's opposition to India retaining that name was based on this reality.
By contrast, the real stupid thing is the rumours circulating these days of the govt plans to abandon the name "India" altogether. If that foolish proposal goes through, Pakisitanis may well award Modiji "Sitara-e-Imtiaz" for the favour he is doing for them! They no longer. need to call this region with the awkward name "Indo-Pak subcontinent". They don't have to cringe when they see an "Indian ocean" on maps.
I just hope there is someone with a bit of common-sense in Modi's ministry (I am counting on Jaishankar) who would advise them earnestly against it if such a move is actively being considered. After all, many countries with ancient civilizations to boast of keep two official names - one name in their native language and another in English that were given by foreigners. Examples include China (Zhongguo in Chinese), Greece (Ellas/Elladi in Greek), Japan (Nippon in Japanese), Germany (Deutschland in German) etc. And the name "India" is nothing more than the Greek variant of "Hind/Hindu", the Persian name of the river "Sindhu" that gave this region its first civilization 4500 years ago. And the name "India" cements our link to that great civilization even if most of the Indus river flows through Pakistan now.
In light of all this, I see no logical reason to feel any insecurity or shame in retaining both the names "India" and "Bharat" as it is now.
Mr Shekhar Gupta, since you have decided to take on the admirable task of self-appraisal; you might also like to reflect on the episode of the landing of an IAF Gnat a/c at Pasrur airstrip.
It's pilot was a Sqn Ldr at the time. He rose to become an Air Marshal in the IAF.
Air Marshal M.S.D. "Mally" Wollen would have had very "interesting " comments on that, for sure!
That Gnat happens to be sitting intact in a PAF museum to this day.
On the other side, the PAF cooked up a story of a "Superman" called M M Alam who could shoot down aircraft faster than his machine-guns could fire!!
Shekhar and his likes depict it this way 🙏
MM alam's claims were contested by his own seniors. Another ghost of kiev like situation
I was studying at college in Jullundur , Punjab when this war started in 1965 !
Isnt it true that Indian Soldiers reached Lahore in 1965 war. If it is true that how did we not win that war??
What a brilliant episode...
Mr. Gupta, I liked your comnents about composing teams- distributing talent etc. I am reminded of a saying- Dominant characteristic of any group grows exponentially. Hence it is the job of the bosses to build dominant characteristic in to groups. Departments/ units and what have you. Thank you
Dear Mr Gupta
I am a Pakistani and have lot of respect for your objective analysis.
In1965 I was a sixth class student but use to read two news papers daily. One in vernacular and other in English. I must say that I am not a student of military history. It is only my memory and later perceptions created by newspapers. Need less to say that my country has been under strict censorship for most of the time since then.
Our side of the perception is that Indian military crossed international border and we stopped them at BRB canal near Lahore on 6th of September. That’s why we call it defence of Pakistan day. The role of PAF has always been painted as secondary, for understandable reasons.
Lot of fog will clear if two letters to the editor Dawn by then(1965) American military attaché posted in Pakistan within a span of a fortnight can be dug out. These letters were published about 15/20 years ago. Memoirs of General ,whose name I am forgetting then (1965)posted as Ambassador to Saigon will also clear some mist.
Nah paki launched operation galbirtar in Jammu sector to release stress India opened international border..
Do you think we're fools capturing Lahore no-one in world will recognise that. We crossed border only to shift stress from loc
And they're lots of more info available on internet from independent sources
AMC Noor Khan book where be mentioned how pak army started and end up defending Lahore
Congratulations Sir. We have gained new insights from this episode which had never been made public. Thank you very much.
IAF never hide the truth that in 1965 most of air assets of IAF were not worthy enough to carry mission during the night.
Moreover in preemptive strike of Pakistan their all jets did not return safely .
Good one Shekhar.....enjoyed your inside story, well narrated !!
Nice history telling. Which phase of war are we talking about over here ? I've heard that during the first phase where action was concentrated in Ran of Kutch, PAF chief Asgar Khan & Air Marshal Arjan Singh had a conversation to avoid escalation. It was in the second phase that the IAF scored many successes in Chhambh, Akhnoor etc. Just making a point, the two Rafale squadrons at Hashimara Air base, currently known as Air Marshal Arjan Singh Air base, are named Chhambh & Akhnoor squadrons.
"Pathankot ke raste mein Delhi a raha hun"
65 war main general Ayub Khan ka mashhur bayan.
Jawab mein Lal Bahadur Shastri Ji ne kaha tha"mein bhi thelte hua Lahore a raha hun"
Excellent analysis. A very valuable lesson in the formation and management of teams. One point overlooked, I will not say missed, was the lack of coordination between the air force and the army. Maybe, its cause was the poor communication systems then available to the forces and the cumbersome chain of command that existed then. .
It exists to date.
Shekhar ji, can you please share author’s name of the book incarnation that you mentioned in recent cut the clutter episode? Thank you 🙏🏼
Thanks for this… this channel is really an eye opener honestLy..
Excellent analysis Sir 👍🏽👍🏽
Always a pleasure to listen to you.
Great episode. You may write your own book on Indian Military History. Also you could have mentioned that the daring raid was done Sqn Ldr Keelor that showed that Sabres can be shot in 1965 air war by Gnats
Please provide link for episode 259
Aaa gaye firse, to say India did not win, Pakistan was not defeated. Bas karo ye har saal ka rona
Let's not forget the disastrous Pakistani airdrop in Punjab where over 100 Pakistani paratroopers were captured by villagers and police.
Sg, fantastic revision of history of 1965 and also the mistakes of IAF and lessons learnt there on.
PAk is heading economically towards a 1971 of Baluchistan and another 1971 of gilgit
Hopefully
Thank you, my friend. I'm glad you liked this episode. Thank you also for supporting our journalism...best wishes, Shekhar
Very well articulated
In description Episode number is not updated
Sir,
You are absolutely right. PAF fared well and outperformed IAF. They were not just better equipped, they WERE AND ARE BETTER TRAINED than IAF.
Lets give credit where credit is due.
Also, let us not sit smug in our false belief that there will be or there CAN be NO MORE ATTEMPTS TO MILLITARILY WREST KASHMIR FROM INDIA.
It was in this war IAF achieved its first air to air kill!
Every organisation without a little chaos is dead!
Happy to note IAF is ever evolving in the service to the nation.
More than a little mate...mrfa, mk2, ucavs.. Everywhere only chaos
@@user-xg4ys8jl9m yeah IAF's planning is worst. Navy"s is best
We become stronger by accepting our mistakes
Just a day or so before ceasefire , a Paki B-57 bomber on a mission to bomb Adampur A. F . Station was shot down . We lived in Jullundur , that evening at about 7 PM , first we heard sirens and then from the terrace of our house , we saw tracers from the ground and then a huge explosion ! Pakistani bomber was shot down ! There was such a high roar of people clapping , there was unbelievable amount of patriotism .
Excellent video Sirji.!
Thanks for an informative and neutral account. I have a question. Did the the fact that India which was still recovering from 1962 war effects was limited in the best possible response to Pak?
I was wondering if you would make this video and voila, what do I see here. Thank you from a very happy member!
Thank you for watching, Rahul. It's wonderful to have a happy viewer...best wishes, Shekhar
Counterfactual - new term you taught me today.
Nice to hear military ctc. Please do military ctc highlighting a param vir chakra or something similar
Brilliant analysis Shekhar
Thank you, my friend. It's always wonderful to get feedback from our viewers, and if it's positive, even better. Thank you also for supporting our journalism...best wishes, Shekhar
This all reminds me of the USA's part in the Napoleonic Wars: the UK put half our borderlands to the torch, and our capitol, we humiliated ourselves in Canada -- but we remember it as a victory just because we didn't lose any land _in a war we started_.
There's only one truth and only one objective in war --- Kashmir was Pak's objective, India had to defend. -- Pak didn't win Kashmir, hence Pak lost 1965, India defended itself --- that's the only thing and only argument that needs to matter.
"Hum jung jeet rhe hain"
Aur Bangladesh ban giya.
Allah kre PK roz jung jettey
Amen😊
✍️✍️🙏🙏
Sir g , plz also name that pilot who shot down 6 indian crafts in few seconds, the name of that warrior is MM ALAM....
The PAF did in fact perform well in the sense that they got the Pakistani Army's "back-side" out of a sticky jam after their "Operation Gibraltar" fizzled out.
Maj Gen Akhtar Hussain Malik was the Architect of Op Gibraltar who pushed the typically Pakistani "militant-driven plan", till he was inexplicably removed from command. Then the Indian Army counter-attacked across the International Border towards Lahore.
On 6th September, the PAF swung into action and saved Lahore and the Pakistani Army's "gluteus maximus".
The PAF is the only force that came out of that conflict with some creditable performance.
Otherwise, that Conflict was notable for poor Command and Generalship where (in the words of some Military Historians): Defeats were frequently snatched out of the jaws of Victory.
Sir, you have got to start publishing it early in the night or in the morning.
As a daily user and student, it's difficult to change my schedule.
🎉
This was war we won by stopping advance
Not to forget how our Navy was sitting ducks and was attacked relentlessly by the Pak Navy. But the tables turned in the 1971 war.
It sounded like National Interest ..not CTC
Confident Nation talks about der defeats as well as victories without any hesitation.
If you can't talk about your defeats openly then in my view, you are not confident enough.
A little correction , not 2 but 3 Mig 21 destroyed on ground in Pathankot. In aircraft years , 15 years is not a long or old age. in first 15 years of Mig 21, India lost more than 105. So only 3 lost in war/combat and that means the average was around 6.5 a year .Do you wanna know how many of them were mid air collisions ? IAF has some record number of MAC, it is insane. MAC scenario should be a rare event and yet somehow IAF has managed to keep a high score. And you cannot say that Mig21 was bad or shoddy. Plenty of countries used it or even the chinese variants based on Mig 21 and nobody has 1/10th of the MACs and crashes as IAF.
Mig 29 is still a formidable aircraft , IAF has managed to crash 23 since induction in 1989 (or was it 1985 ? ). Seven of those in first 10 years. SU30 , a brilliant aircraft and only inducted in 2002. That is baby age in terms of aircraft service, yet already lost 12. That is one ever other year. Even if you take the war time out, it shows structural incompetency from training to pilot to ground control and crew all the way to senior command and you cannot spin it any other way.
SG sir in the name of democracy, very smartly promotes PAK army.....and he does it consistently with a smile.....No match for his skill.....
SG is Pakistani
After you pass your 7th standard, come back and watch this video again. You'll understand this much better then.
@@minti3245 everything which comes from madradachap and commie thugs always is devoid of logic...
Pakistan being a military state and army running eveything from economy to education, you have to have some success stories, even if they myths, to keep the faith and investments of general public alive in its army establishment and not to quetion its aurhority....
So more than a myth, its a compulsion for Pakistani army.
Bit confused why pakistan don't want to celebrate their victory of 1948- 49 war were they captured POK than shooting down some fighter jets in Indian bases in 1965.
Mr. Gupta's criticism of Modi govt is rarely direct, but today he mentioned two points very nicely. One is 'one distraction everyday' from real issues of the country and the second is the identical views of the Pakistanis and the BJP on the name of our country 'India'. Not surprising because the views of Muslim League and RSS/Hindu Mahasabha were identical.
Your criticism of Mr Modi and then directly coming to the Hindu organisations shows your lack of knowledge in History and even the Economics. Not a single gov is acceptional in Indian economic history. If people as you say do not discuss real issues then is opposition is doing it ???? Projects atrted in 80s had not seen lights even till 2014 be it infra, defense, border road management or the biggest thing vision for a country. Wow. Please recite the highly famous, succesful song in nehruvian era HAM HONGE KAMIYAB - EK DIN. but vo din kabhi nahi aya. Remember we used to beg USA for wheat under PL 480. Make yourself comfortable with some reality
Mr Gupta created new stories for 1965 war that India wins
yeah like muslim league supports LGBT rights like RSS do. What r u smokin?
😂😂😂
Masterful analysis. They should include you in all think tanks.
Though India clearly won the 1965 war, captured much more territories than Pakistan, however, IAF underperformed
Pakistan observes 6th September as Defense Day because Pakistan defended against an attack by the Indian army in the Lahore front.
The reason Pakistan says it 'won' the war is because it was India that formally crossed the internatiobal border. India offically started the war.
Pakistani pilot: casually commiting war crimes, murduring civilians in air
Shekhar Gupta: PAF stronk, IAF weak
I wonder if any action was taken against the officers at Pathankot airbase
Arjan Singh is also a hyped Marshall of Indian Air Force . Leadership was very weak and have no military planning which led to loss of aircrafts on the ground .
General nathusingh of dungarpur told nehru to open second front of Punjab
Shastri and harbaksh saved India from fourth panipat
This video wasn't uploaded on 6th September!! Not in India certainly. Idk about Pakistan!
Pl read books on yb chavan and his staff
The immediate aftermath of a battle is too early to declare victory or defeat. The Pakistanis would never have labelled it 'Defence of Pakistan ' day if they truly believed that they had won. It would have been celebrated as Victory day or something like that. India only reacted to Pakistani adventurism and as long as they prevented Pakistan from achieving any of it's objectives they could be happy. One of the results of 1965 came in 1971 , and many more results since then. These are all battles between India Pakistan and the war is still to come and not necessarily on a conventional battlefield.
& who was responsible for such a situation of Indian Armed Forces - the one and only Lehru
India also lost an opportunity to use the indian Navy which could have caused a great damage
The Print have a dedicated story on Gnat fighters respone to Sabre 86 jet of Pakistan
The attack on Pathankot Airbase was led by Syed Sajjad Haider and not by Arshad Sami Khan
Except the 1971 war, the other 2 wars in 1948 and 1965 are a stalemate
and dont have very clear winner for india.
In 71 we split islamic pakistani arse into 2, still paining?
1948- musleemian Pakistanis attacked state kashmir when india started they ran away like porks
Also after Balakot, why we shot down our own helicopter and then awared the helicopter pilot who had not switched on friend or foe signal when an aerial battle was going on 15 minutes flying distance away!! And the base commanders who shot down have still not been prosecuted who are holding out for the command logs in civilian court. And nobody asked how a BrahMos ended up in a Pakistan village.
Shekhar Gupta Shb....in making your analysis on air war of 1965 to 1971, please note and you must tell your audience about how severely PAF suffered with US sanctions on it. with it no spare parts, no upgradation, no new or the loss of F86/F104 or B57s were ever balanced by the US. Against that, Russians not only make up for IAF losses in terms or numbers but provided the necessary upgradation which we saw on Mig21s.PAF fought well in both the encounters and please do tell your audience that in East Pakistan.....against one single squadron of 16 F86..IAF has pitched in 10 squadron (10x16) 160 planes against a6 F86. This you must couple with all the vital secrets / radar coverage / fuel dumps etc which the traitors called Bengalis took with them when defected to india !!
Alle le mere beta dard ho raha hai koi na ye lo chaaaklate 🍫 😂😂😂😂😂😂
Did he just say that honesty is not common to Indian military establishment??? What kind of a person is this ?
With every passing day, Pakistan is becoming a client state of China. The Chinese army is already guarding the Billions of dollars worth of infrastructure built under CPEC in POK. It is about time we should consider Pakistan as a state of China.
Debt is paid in Cash or in Kind. Pakistan is an expert in paying back in Kind.
BJP complies with the Chinese and Pakistani dream of calling India Bharat, not INDIA.
Atleast Bjp can handle China
better than congress
Congress didnt even built roads along Chinese borders in Ladakh & NEFA
SG sir will not talk about the genocide call from stalin son.....oh thats a secular wish!....
1:30 I hope this remains good-natured ribbing.
none of our top brass want to look at the truth to retrospect, learn from their own mistakes , take responsibility and improve their men's lot. 47 thru 65, kargil , latest china issue including backing off from the kailash rnages. always the foot-soldiers have to die defending and reclaiming the lost land.
SG is the a£$£h0l£ of the highest order!
Soon Pakistan history books will claim that they landed on the moon in 1965!😊
Kuchh aur nahi mila jo 1965 nikal kar naith gaye. There is no problem in the World that our Country does not harbour or suffer from. What will we get from Analysing a bygone era when your favourite Congress Party had neglected the Def Forces to such an extent that despite so many stellar examples of heroism & sacrifice we lost face badly in 1962 & then again in times of famine almost lost another in 1965. A lot of water has passed under the bridge since then but our many systemic problems still remain & so does the planned, systematic demoralizing, downgrading, demeaning & neglect of the human factor in our Forces.
Can 1965 IAF readiness be contributed to Nehru, especially if IAF was so good in 1971
The blind hatred of Nehru in social media just baffles me.
This was a country which was bankrupted at the time of independence, had precious little resources, food was scarce, population was illiterate and by 1965 it had fought 2 wars. This was a time when cold War was at its peak and we were trying to bring about the idea of non alignment and peace co existence in the world. So shut up and first read about the world and then give your opinion.
@@sandeepshah105nehru is dunked on social media because of his stance on China, he approved the one china policy, turn blind eye when china was invading Tibet, recognised china claim on tibet, then lest a war with China. Plus he made a mess in Kashmir.
And talking about non allignment is joke, it didn't lead much to anywhere, Indira his daughter became Soviet allied and rest is history
@@navdeepsugandhi6476 Nehrus policy of non alignment resulted in some IIT being built by US, some by Russia and some by UK. Same goes for the steel plants built by the government. If you have doubts on the policy look at what Pakistan is now, its a failed state with no ideology and no foundations. The strong foundations of democracy, secularism, rule of law, scientific temper by built by the founding fathers of our nation and Nehru was a big part of it.
You are merely blinded by the propaganda machine of the RSS, whose principles are exactly what was principles of Muslim League which founded Pakistan, if India is not a failed state and has not disintegrated into pieces is because we rejected the RSS.
@@sandeepshah105 lol why compare with Pakistan, if u want to compare then do it with its peers in non allignment like Indonesia. Indonesia suharto and Nehru were leaders of non allignment.
Compare their progress with us. Their and our history is similar. Pakistan was doomed to fail since its foundation. Don't bring it up as a point of comparison
@@sandeepshah105 secondly u didn't give a reply to my answer. I said nehru is dunked because of his china policy and his daughter spitting in his face by aligning with Soviets.
Like read a reply before going on rant about RSS, Muslim league, IIts etc
You missed the the defense perspective. Your evaluation and analysis is purely from journalist's point.
Military Intelligence/planners of Pakistan paved the way for this. They somehow realized (or made educated guess) that after 1962 war, India was on back foot and much of our Military and machines were stationed towards Chinese border. This vital info coupled with military edge in Air, Naval and somewhat par Army besides the advantage of East Geography tempted for a go. This was the real prelude.
Then to make a mock up, a story of missing 'hair' from Hazart - Bal was cooked up. Had to not been the case of 1965 war, India wouldn't have brutally split them in two. Fighting two fronts in 65' proved way costly to us, many bases in Assam took heavy beating which rarely came to light.
Pakistanis take the L 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Another landmark day for Candle March Wallas and their patrons on either side of Border. Yet an unwritten shock over how an under and Ill-equipped Indian Army could take on US trained and US equipped Pakistan Army.
Truth not propaganda 🙏🙏🙏🙏
on september 7,1965 Pakistan Airforce attacked forward Indian Airoforce bases and destroyed many planes and bases like halwara , amritsir , adampur and pathankot were destroyed. Pathankot airbase was completely destroyed and lost 22 aircraft on the ground. In 1965 Pakistan Airforce jets like F.86 and F.104 were equipped with night fighting capability , missiles and were super sonic and none of the IAF jets were equipped with these capabilites thus IAF was no match for the PAF . Two IAF jets also landed and surrendered with thier working jets. one knat and one mystere. one of the pilot was brijpaul who became the IAF chief after. In the sea Indian navy didnt even dare to challenge any Pak navy ships . Indian navy was scared of Pakistani submarine . India used world war two era tanks and thier shells were not strong enough to penetrate patton tanks . however Patton tanks targetted with more powerful guns and destroyed number of Old Indian tanks like it was another practice day for them. IAF jets were fallling of the sky like flies and Indian navy decided not die like fish so many Indian navy ships didnt leave their docks even when dwarka naval station was under attack. we won 1965 and could cause more damage if Lal Bahadri didnt run to Russia
You are right that India had old and antiquated equipment and India & Pak both had equal men in numbers in 1965 but Neither IAF nor any Navy or Army personnel ever surrendered.... Surrendering is the hallmark of Pakistani Army only... Even in worst condition India captured 1800 sq kms of Paki territory against loosing 595 sq kms.... Pak surrendered and asked for a ceasefire... Had the ceasefire not happened in Tashkent paki would have gone through the same gang rape tragedy like 1971
Cut and paste...repeat🙄😪😪😪
Take the L😂😂😂😂😂😂
@@ashishbhatt6874 ??
Wouldn't you blame Nehru for not preparing the air force during his tenure?
why India was able to Kick away Pakistan in 1965
because Nehru was not there
Instead of fighting the war He would have, just like in 1947, run toward UNO and we have lost another portion of Kashmir
Thank you Shekhar ji for not talking about One Nation one election (as nothing is der right now) and India vs Bharat.
These are just Diversion techniques.
I think it is time SG handover the reins to a young journalist .. He seems to rant on and on and on …He doesn’t discuss the elephant in the room of the callous of Indian leadership to portray pacifism and instead of ranting for 8 hours. Indian paid for it stupidity. given the motivated leadership has always send enemies with tail between their feet. two examples standout .. Lt Gen Sagat Singh sorjoun with Chinese in 1967 and 1971 war. you can also add Kargil to the list.I expect Cut the clutter should be honest and not talk only facts .. what SG talks is public knowledge.
IAF was flying daytime missions in pakistan air space and also ground support operations. Sargodha was the most heavily defended air base in entire asia and IAF threw fighters at it repeatedly in daytime using slow flying vampires and mysteres. ..most Indian fighters were destroyed on ground than in air combat ....Guptaji itna mat girao un bahaduron ki qurbaani aur jazbe ko ..
Telling the truth doesn't "girao" anything. Soldiers and pilots can display bravery even during strategic blunders by their leaders.
on september 7,1965 Pakistan Airforce attacked forward Indian Airoforce bases and destroyed many planes and bases like halwara , amritsir , adampur and pathankot were destroyed. Pathankot airbase was completely destroyed and lost 22 aircraft on the ground. In 1965 Pakistan Airforce jets like F.86 and F.104 were equipped with night fighting capability , missiles and were super sonic and none of the IAF jets were equipped with these capabilites thus IAF was no match for the PAF . Two IAF jets also landed and surrendered with thier working jets. one knat and one mystere. one of the pilot was brijpaul who became the IAF chief after. In the sea Indian navy didnt even dare to challenge any Pak navy ships . Indian navy was scared of Pakistani submarine . India used world war two era tanks and thier shells were not strong enough to penetrate patton tanks . however Patton tanks targetted with more powerful guns and destroyed number of Old Indian tanks like it was another practice day for them. IAF jets were fallling of the sky like flies and Indian navy decided not die like fish so many Indian navy ships didnt leave their docks even when dwarka naval station was under attack. we won 1965 and could cause more damage if Lal Bahadri didnt run to Russia
@@taxidon4947 and still - Kashmir rahega Hindustan. Not one inch of territory gained, for many lives. Great victory for Pakistan, lol.
@@thelungilife6057 hahahah did you say India didnt loose an Inch . You sound like your PM modhi. India lost the highest peaks in the Kargill area called point 5252 to this day. Pakistan never vaccated that peak because it can look 20 to 30 Km inside indian territory and can see the movment on srinagat to leh highway...India lost 500 men , 500p injured. One mi17 shot ( three piltos killed) ....one mig21 and pilot sqd leader ajay ahuja killed on ground by Pak soldiiers. One mig27 was shot and nacheketa was a POW for a weak. Wr lost 300 precious lives out of 800 too. Now in 2019 on the request of Pakistani arny general , China lauched an attack on India and captured , gogra , hotsprings , demchowk and depsang sectors. Also made India to disengge from the finger points area. However today the Finger area is a no go zone for both the Armies and you lost the shooting location of three Idiots. Plus china still holds Kailash range . Depsang , gogra and hotsprimg areas to date and Modhi and you say that India didnt loose an imch in Kashmir. 🙂😄😭😭😅...forget inches, iIndia has lost im Kms 😅😅😅😅😅
@@taxidon4947yet pakistan has no way of winning in that war 🤣🤣 we didn't use navy because there was no need army almost gave us strategic victories over and over .... And if you had any doubts how indian armed forces function we showed it in 1971, we destroyed you nave , army and airforce hid their planes in iran and took half of their country 😅😅😅😅 so hold my beer
Kaah aise journalist aur hotey. If any one watches Aaj tak, Republic Bharat etc today he will become a Hindu Jihadi. What a decay of the nation.
Air force has been a let down for us though
O hello Pathankot air strike was led by Sqn Ldr Sajjad Haider !!
Toh hame kyun bata ra, hame tugh jaise begairat ki baat hi ni sun ni
@@psr4550 its for Mr. Shekhar Gupta....not for morons like you !