Agreed, I can already see the mass cyclone all ins in every single vT game on the ladder. It was already really good vs zerg before and now it also crushes pound for pound almost everything from protoss with minimal micro.
even before this change cyclone was very powerful for its cost and ease of access. If cyclone was 200/100 and 3 or 4 supply unit it would be fine as it is now, but this double buffing is too much.
Are you kidding 3 or 4 supply for this? 3 is lurker or tank 4 is immortal...then make stalker zealot also 3 to 4 supply? Limited production by tech lab was easy to acces is same if prottos make stalker from robo LOL. Before was nonplayable unit with very high cost and slow production NWM i think they still nerf them , they try to make mech viable agansit toss = no die to GW all ins what was comical because terran higher tier died to lower tier , and easier to take 3 bases , just change the stupid advantage of toss for no reason against mech....also make game less micro intensive for terran...in lower league...Just make cyclone good in early game and shit in Lategame thats all.Terran mech only need good reliable unit in early game to stay alive then trasnition to tanks and thors...or Starport.
@sc2fanterranplayer Look uThermal seriesine Cyclone to GM, even before it was a very powerful unit with a proper micro. Also currently in the new patch cyclone is way too good in the early game, it's almost impossible to stop any decent cyclone all in. Not everyone always playing a macro game, lol.
Technically they do, the thing is Immortals can't kill what they can't catch up to. Personally, they should lean more into the anti-air role, by reducing their ground range and increasing the air range.
For what the problem of mech TvP is stalkers and zealot not carriers....cause helion are garbage and terran dont have mech unit that can be massed and is effective.. also had problem to take 3d
@@kaiser2261 The problem is that by the time you have 1 immortal out, the opponent will have like 4 cyclones in your base. That's how the production with reactors and the superior move speed of the cyclone works. And also it will become a game of building a far less mobile army of immortals or have everything you own countered.
I hate this cyclone update. This is an INSANE change and it is going to get nerfed at somepoint, because wtf are they doing. Old cyclones were 18+2, new ones vs armored are 15+2 and they attack substantially faster, and they barely need anymore micro besides a minor amount of stutter stepping a-moving forward. Not to mention the health boost. This change basically took cyclones from a micro unit and kite, to an a-move forward unit. Serious question to the balancers...what exactly is protoss supposed to build vs this to reach a point where they can potentially build a counter? Zealots? They get kited hard, also heavy zealot investment puts you behind in other areas. Blink stalkers can't match at an even footing, but you can build cyclones faster, and before you had blink mobility helping out, but cyclone speed means they can match overall map movement. Static defense? Well cyclones do 50% more damage in this iteration to static defense. Adepts? They have less health, less dps, and essentially less mobility than cyclones. Cyclones out trade any air units, and can mass faster than phoenix's. Okay so you get your robo up, how many immortals do you need to beat 20 cyclones? Here is my prediction for how terran vs protoss goes. 1) Build 20 cyclones, 2) move into toss main. 3) Win in 7 to 8 minutes, because right now cyclones don't have a counter for protoss. The kicker for me though, is zerg have still been trying to figure out how to manage the cyclone pressure as is. Well the change didn't make zerglings survive an additional shot, it didn't make hydras survive an additional shot, it makes queens survive 2 additional shots but they already were getting wrecked super hard...also it takes even more queen attacks to kill a cyclone now. Roaches die in 11 hits rather than 15. The ravager ironically is tankier vs cyclones than the roach and can survive 14 hits. So with this change, it basically is a straight buff to cyclones vs zerg in large part because of tankiness changes.
This is hilarious. I laughed myself silly all through this video. Who thinks this is a good idea? Is the balance team made up exclusively of terran players? How could the cyclone have gotten buffed AGAIN? This whole video is just like "Cyclones fight this, look at that, totally stomp it, okay lets have cyclones fight this other thing, look at that, cyclones totally stomp that too..." on and on, over and over again. Its like a showcase of how obscenely OP these things are. And when you start thinking about what this will do to lower leages - even if by some terrible miracle pros wind up considering this to be balance (no idea how that could happen), players in the metal tiers are going to be just traumatized by terran players. What are people thinking?
Somehow we’ve come full circle and arrived at the warhound. Honestly, let’s just swap the model at this point because a mech is cooler then a brick with wheels.
the cyclone is too powerful now especially off of a reactor. I'd rather see damage decreased and range increased to encourage more micro. There also needs to be a hard counter to the cyclone.
@sc2fanterranplayer Oh yeah immortal, a very slow niche unit that costs a bunch of minerals. xD Why the hell Cyclones also counter chargelots, a unit that hellions already counter and that's supposed to be used against fast units that are hard to catch?
If I understand correctly, cyclone does 21 damage vs armored at +3 and shoots 2 times per second, so not accounting for armor it does 42 dps. Old cyclone does 600 damage over 14 seconds, which is also 42 dps. They reduced the price, tech requirements and supply cost while almost not changing damage. Game is balanced by terrans.
I dont want to blame the balance team as they are the people trying to make the game better. But so far this balance patch is going to make terran mech a deathball army like skytoss. F2a forward to vaporize everything in low league.
While in this testing the cyclone looks op, it should be noted that ladder maps do not have open fields such as this one, so that may be to the protoss advantage. But yeah, 15 dmg vs armoured is a little bit too much together with the 20 hp buff
You also don’t have 75 Cyclones vs 30 Carriers in a real game. This is solely a reprensentation on raw strength. Go ahead and do the same with the current Cyclone it will not trade well against all Protoss Units like this one😅
@@gerkahn8179 hydras, BL movement speed increase, ultras scale and price, fungal avail at spawn, reduction in upgrade costs across the board, and indirectly via nerfs to toss and terran
@@kaiser2261 hydra buff already cancelled. Fungal avaiable initially But has less Range. I want Fungal with 10 Range to try to Connect with Ghosts. I think its way harder now and it was Not easy before. Ultra size reduction is a buff, I agree Cost reduction wont change anything. BL movement Speed change is a nerf in my opinion, they Are still to Slow whilst lacking Range nowadays to stop the terran Army from moving forward. Im quite sure with the broodling nerf, marines or the new Cyclones Are Able to move undernesth them and kill them Even easier than before. Hope this patch Never gets through. Other than that, what is the nerf to terran ? What is the nerf to protoss with regard to the zerg matchup?
Especially when stalkers are the unit that's supposed to counter them... Protoss has nothing else they can use for the purpose. Immortals are way too slow to respond to cyclones, and can be kited way more effectively than is implied in the video (yes, the cyclones take a hit, but they can still kite with the 9 range after locking on). IMO, cyclones were fine as they were vs Toss. They aren't a unit that should be strong in straight fights when massed; they have way too much mobility for that, and the ability to attack while moving combined with that makes them very difficult to respond to. Terran can already handle beat blink stalkers pretty reasonably with EMP or a few tanks to support.
The first version of the changes was less broken vs protoss, but apparently it was way too strong vs zerg. This change seems to have been made to make them less strong vs things like queens and hydras while keeping them strong vs stalkers, but they may have overcompensated. I think 12 or 13 damage a shot vs armored is probably fine, but 15 is apparently too much.
@@RuneKatashima As long as the stalkers used blink or a prism defensively, they traded extremely favorably vs cyclones, and they have enough mobility and range to reasonably contend with them. Though, without blink they didn't do particularly well, and nothing else even makes sense to use vs cyclones, so Protoss was pretty much forced to go blink vs cyclone openers. The reaction seemed to be based largely on the idea of pure cyclone as the composition vs protoss, which is just kind of absurd. Tanks are added to bio specifically to deal with blink, so it seems kind of crazy to me not to add them when going cyclone mech vs Protoss, especially since you need a tech lab for the speed upgrade anyway. Adding in ghosts and using EMP also made cyclones trade extremely favorably even vs blink.
Can you show when terran pro builds tank TvP ....Tank get destroy by tier one unit with sport shoes and blades, only first push had 2-3 Tanks before charge tier 2.5 with 150 125 cost get totally destroy by 100 mineral unit imagine marines destroying collosus and templars thas absurd.And is not absurd for you fact the factory units are counterd by Gw units?
So cyclone now beat every Protoss units except immortals. I think cyclone can also beat immortals with 4-5 emps. That means cyclone with ghosts just wipe out all Protoss units. That’s insane..
Making the game fun for not only pros to play, but also casual players is always the hardest of balancing any game. At least the community is in charge now and can take more direct feedback.
Hello. i quit starcraft in 2014 as there wasnt a race that can spam a single unit and wiun like the dragoon so i didnt like it. can i come back now and just spam reaactor cyclone with as many base as i can?
Seems like the "new new" cyclone has a Warhound 2.0 problem where it looks good vs many units. And I feel that it breaks the identity of Terran mech in a way where it is mobile/powerful/"low"-cost unit. Though I guess for people who have been screaming for years for a mech ground base anti air unit (goliath) will be quite happy with this.
As a Diamond3 Terran (3200MMR) and my offracing as Protoss (3620 MMR - funny since i know only one build ), I really appreciate a unit that acutally might counter nonstop blink stalker all ins (like 80% of protoss on my ladder do that). TvP is by far my worst setup ... I usually survive the acutal all in- but i can`t recover from the perma contain, I just can`t get up my third against constant protoss reinforcements. So this might actually help to get my MMRs on par.
It is simple. If an unit can easily kite, it should not win ANY head-to-head a-move battle. I don't understand why there are still some people complain about the previous version cyclone is too weak. It may not be good against some situations but it is not technically countered by any units as well.
I'd prefer if the Cyclone had the transformation gimmick of all other mech units, being fragile asf in its base form but enables kiting with the option to become bulkier (idk, maybe it becomes a rockets-only goliath?), but also way slower and with less range. Make it so frail that it is useless in a straight up a-move battle (like the Hellion), but has an option that let's it become an a-move fighter more hp but much slower and with less range) but said option is way less effective than a properly microed base form Cyclone with kiting (like the Hellbat).
Just get +3 immortals. Sure, Terran can start reactoring out mass cyclones right away, but just hope he never attacks until you finish +3. Perhaps the goal is to just kill off protoss players permanently and it will be easier to balance when only t and z players remain.
how is it that this patch goal was to stabilize protoss but instead terran gets a unit that is good or decent vs all protoss units and cheap and requires no research to get? Now if the goal was to stabilize terran i would think this was a good change. I think this change completely misses the mark on the goal of the patch
Looks like they may be too eager with testing multiple changes. Purposefully overbuffing to force players to attempt/develop a counter strategy instead of using typical builds? Would help them if they added context to the changes for explanation, a decent number people seem to think they're mad. Uninformed guess, but I think 10 + 4 damage and the current speed changes is close to what they will decide on, removing the hp bonus.
From what I previously saw, cyclone countered zeotes and roaches but tend to be countered by stalker and zerglings. Now, protoss don't seam to have an early answer against cyclone and when it come to zerglings: cyclones are often seen with hellions in TvZ. I think they should make it a 12 damage vs all instead of a 10+5 vs armored.
+12 vs all wouldn't be much of a change from the last version of 11(+1 vs armored). It would actually make the situation worse for Zeg, who were complaining pretty hard about how well cyclones killed pretty much all of their early game units. The solution might be to make them more like the Hellion, but vs armored instead of light. Low base damage with a high bonus to their intended targets. That way they'd be strong vs stalkers or roaches, but worse vs zealots or hydras. However, that would go against the stated patch goal of making them a more all-around unit. Plus it would make them bad against Queens, and Queens need to have something that beats them.
@@matthewpelletier6900 why not reducing their attack speed to make them weak against swarm tactic since the whole "focus aim at the same target" thing seem to already push toward this direction and when it come to damage, maybe 6+8 vs armored. I think a way of making it usefull and strong without making all terran duel becoming mass cyclone is to make it a specialist instead of a generalist like marine, making it really strong at what it do without allowing it to do everything forcing it to be paired with other unit to work properly as it should be.
@@Undermine5 cutting their attack speed AND making them only hurt armored might be a bit too much of a nerf. They'd basically only work vs roaches and stalkers and be useless against everything else. Phoenixes and Mutas would laugh at mech Terran because they would have no useful anti air vs light. A few Queens could shut down any early game mech push, because neither Hellions or Cyclones would do any damage to them.
@@matthewpelletier6900 Is there a unit in the game that have bonus vs air? I know the air tag exist on unit as it can be applied on custom unit when playing with the ingame modding tool, tag that is used when deciding if a weapon can't touch an air unit (roach, marauder and every "mele" unit) or could only aim at air unit (anti-air turret, viking, phoenix, corruptor) but I dont think there a unit that can aim every unit but have bonus vs air.
wth... I fear that the balance council has lost its focus. I thought the changes aimed to buff protoss a tad bit. Not give terran an all round amove unit to spam.
I love the boldness of these patch changes. Starcraft2 is over 10 years old and we need a completely new Meta. I still remember the Archon toilet, and when mass raven seeker missle has late game Maur games become so funny to watch. We need a complete revamp and I can't wait to see future patches.
I'm so confused. Did we decide based on the tournament and other testing by all the pros that the Cyclone was already imba vs zerg? Why are we making it even better vs zerg by making it crush roaches even harder? Also, isn't it ok that the cyclone wasn't good vs toss, but was good vs zerg? Why does it need to be viable vs both races? NGL I would love to see an indepth explanation by the people on the balance council where they go over all their thinking as a group as to why these changes are necessary at the highest level and why they think it's a good idea. I would also love to see how the balance council works, like how many of the pros have to agree to the changes before they go through?
@@HeroMarineSc2 Fair enough. I'm not a pro and I watched your first video. I just also watched videos from Harstem and Pig and they were saying that pros had pretty much unanimously claimed that it was extremely strong vs zerg. So I wasn't sure
One thing you guys are missing is cyclone now have a definite disposition. It's a long way to conclude that it's too op toss have colosuss/disruptor zerg easily kill cyclone troop with infestor and even ling/ling can kill cyclone hellion troop. I think cyclone is a stepping stone for the midgame to hold out when playing mech it’s great unit on early-mid game but defineately it’s not for late game
"looks very good". u mean very broken, right? I mean same cost as stalker, yet stalker is weak cost-to-cost against pretty much all the terran units, while cyclone is powerful against all the protoss units sans immortal (?). and requires littel to no micro to win such even battles - a cherry on top
And fact the immmortals can beat all factory units with A move ? even this imba cyclone is okay for you? Thats not imba? And what is micro to zealot archon immortal A move?
So what would be Protoss's real response to mass reactor Cyclone, if Blinkers get trashed like that? Especially at lower leagues, this will be so strong. Immortals will just get overwhelmed. If the goal is an a-move-friendly unit that can be reactored, then those stats will need to be nerfed a bit.
I think sentries with force fields will be very important against cyclones. Immortals + force fields and zealots + charge to tank the damage and kill the trapped cyclones might be really good. Thoughts ?
I agree, he leaves out the fact that protoss upgrade costs and I think times have been reduced, leveling the playing field upgrade wise a little bit. Of course sentries have been buffed a few times recently so I can see their abilities make or breaking games from now on
yeah, these are waaaaay overtuned... wtf thought this was balanced? The mobility means it just overruns when stronger. honestly the original ones seemed fine if not already too strong. it could easily pick off weaker groups of units, overrunning when outnumbering, while still being okayish in straight fights. It wasn't clearly OP or UP, so giving time to test it out would be good. Even then, as I wrote this, it felt like the AA potential is too strong since it's competitive vs ground while killing basically any air - but then again, mech terran doesn't have other good AA options early so eh Against toss, unupgraded gateway gets owned, it wrecks chargelots when kiting, and while blink stalkers could fight them off by out-trading with bink micro, they couldn't really chase since blinking in causes lock-on to trade well vs the stalkers as the cyclones retreated. mix in some tanks to hold the line/push and they do just fine, esp since if stalker blinks in to snipe tank, the cyclones would murder them in return. Robo units cannot even catch them, which only matters for immortal since they easily overrun+kill disruptors (or outrun nova) and collosus. Stargate units get murdered. Archons just get kited, templar can't work against their mobility + not-paper HP pool. It could still be fine since it is still very expensive, and maybe sentry plays could help fight/catch them better, +micro hasn't been fully wokred out either side, too early to tell really Against zerg, it either easily out-kites or kills everything except hydra into lurkers, including wrecking mass queens which is the current go-to early defense. Standard strat of going for flanks is super dangerous too since they can easily overrun a weaker flank. It again shuts down all air play too. Hydras aren't that great of an answer either since they need to deathball or still get overrun, while being less mobile, and lurkers carry similar risk. Again, it could still be OK since it is expensive, zerg has a lot of flexibility to adapt production, and the new infestors could be a good shut-down. I haven't seen TvT with it but if it's any good at all, it'll make for super toxic games imo where the sheer mobility means the side with a slight edge in any engagement just immediately overruns the other.
The Terran Conglamorate did really make sure, that Terran wins every single Tournament if this Cyclone change wents live! They are so strong its insane!
Wow, I am very surprised they buffed cyclone vs stalkers. The entire reason why massing 1 unit generally doesn't work is because the opponent can just mass the counter unit and shut it down. So what is the counter unit against cyclones now? +3 immortals? lol?
What I gathered from this, and I kind of already knew. Is that the Carrier isn't good against anything. Except structures and even that's debatable. Btw you forgot the armor upgrade in the Colossus fight.
Mass carrier is good against everything other than a few counters if they are used with decent micro. It's just that they over buffed the Cyclones, lol.
Before everyone panics that the new cyclone is going to ruin SC2, bear in mind that it is in testing/iteration. If it proves as broken as it looks in this video, it will of course be nerfed before the patch goes live. I guess the concern was the former cyclone redesign was not strong enough & would be too easily countered with immortals and we'd go back to standard mandatory terran bio play. But they look to have overcorrected. The speed changes look good, but the bonus damage vs armoured looks too high. They could consider (1) having a separate/additional upgrade for bonus damage against armoured (suspect this would not be enough); (2) reintroduce a cooldown on lock-on, though a shorter one than previously - maybe 2 seconds; (3) increasing the cyclone's cost to 150/50; or (3) having two "modes" for the cyclone like the thor, one of which was similar to the first patch; and a second extra-damage vs armoured mode (probably with a range buff also), but one that comes at the cost of reintroducing a cooldown on lock on, so it is better against armoured/high value units on this mode, but weaker against mass/low value units. I think it is clear from your testing/demonstration that the latest revision makes the cyclone way too strong as is.
This looks like trash. There's only 1 viable counter (immo) and as you said, they can't be built nearly as quickly as cyclones on a reactor. Only way I can see this working is if they change Cyclone from Armored to Light (0 armor), so that adepts, colossus, carriers, and even zealots trade better with them. Also the bonus health should just be core to the unit, not part of an upgrade (especially to make it easier to monitor balance). Also worth noting that landed Vikings have bonus dmg vs mechanical. It would be nice to see those factor into Mech armies vs Protoss... which won't happen if the Cyclone is a catch-all unit.
Also hero marine I think you're kiting the zealots wrong, if you a move and right click fast enough the cyclones don't stop moving when they stutter step, I tried this same fights and finished with 5 or so more cyclones.
Oh yeah, cyclones with a move should beat toss with even recources and micro .... If even the strongest t3 lategame unit cant trade evenly vs a t2 early cheap mass produced unit u know the game is in a bad state. Glad i unistalled this shitshow of a game, maybe coming back in SC3 when toss is viable again
Like my god, mech is the most braindead abusable strategy vZ below middle of masters to the point there's like a 1300 mmr difference between the players to win. Its already as bad as the voidray meta ever was and that's mech IN ITS CURRENT FORM. They want to BUFF it. I am so so so glad I quit this anti zerg game. No wonder there are so few zergs on ladder and there will be far less because of this toxic shit. The thing is, in lower leagues, there is no counter or even a soft check to mech as it is, and god forbid its turtlemech. Its just beyond me that they want to make the most toxic thing in the game and make it MORE toxic. I'm just done. Whatever hope i had to come back to the game is just gone now.
I know this is about the cyclone, but can anyone tell me why the hydra cant get its upgrades combined? Without the upgrades, its a weak unit, only with both it gets "normal" Just my opinion, correct me if I'm wrong
I still think that the cyclone should be made lategame viable with an Armor pen upgrade rather than increasing base dmg. 11 against all and an upgrade on the fusion core that makes it ignore Armor would be the way to go. Reliant on speed and micro in the early game. Massable army unit in the lategame.
They can, but the patch at the beginning of the year made it so interceptors have lower target priority than carriers. This means units will automatically target the carrier instead of the interceptor if they're both in range.
@@matthewpelletier6900 I know about the patch, I was just curious if the lock on ability will be casted on the interceptors because I'm unsure if they count as valid targets
Might want to modulate you voice volume, you have these huge volume spikes when you say "ummmm" or "ok", ITS LIKE YOUR YELLING. Try to have constant volume. It hurts.
these monobattle scenarios are not that useful. youll never encounter just 20 void rays without high templars and 20 zealots along with it. or just stalkers without zealots
Say toss makes a diverse army of blink stalkers, chargelots, sentries, and immortals vs pure cyclones. Cyclones just need to take out the few immortals and will smash everything else. Toss only wins if they get great forcefields and keeps their immortals alive. And toss is not going to have blink, charge, and immortals (with +3 to 2 shot) vs an early cyclone push
6min no map that large to fight like that and proto are no brain player that might work like that..feel good all propose queen got destroy..lately noone even scout terran anymore bc they really dont hv option marine low tier unit...😊
Cost, supply, and off a reactor makes them OP. Make them cost a bit more gas. I don't know why SC2 decided things can only cost in multiples of 25, but 125/50 is too cheap, 125/75 is probably too expensive. 125/60 or 65 would be good
And if they are this strong vs Protoss, they'll be even more OP vs Zerg. They both outrage and outgun any Zerg ranged units, and can kite mass Lings to death with a few Hellions mixed in. Super OP
Yeah, I don't like this cyclone change. I think they need to seriously thin k this through more, see massive problems with zvT and pvt. Make the cyclone off a tech lab still, and leave the other changes. If I can get 12 cyclones out super fast reactored, it is going to basically insta win tvz, and tvp.. unless I fuck up.
So a pro gamer microing his heart out with even supply can't beat a moved Cyclones. Good shit.
How the tides have turned huh? Crazy
@@ZC.Andrew If you play Zerg I wouldn't comment on micro. Presplitting your army into 3 chunks and a moving isn't exactly rocket science.
@@timmarsden86 I play all 3 races at the D2 level. They all have their challenges.
Wins every fight vs any units and fights ok vs Imortals (full direct counter). Seems absolutelly broken in this tests
Every balance patch is a Terran buff. Since WOL
the lies you both are telling lol
Cylone beats Stalker even with GM-level blink micro. Imagine that.
Damn its like a 200% increase in update frequency now lol
They are committed into ensuring terran and zerg dominance at the highest level for another decade.
maybe toss players just suck?@@MrMasters1983
Agreed, I can already see the mass cyclone all ins in every single vT game on the ladder. It was already really good vs zerg before and now it also crushes pound for pound almost everything from protoss with minimal micro.
even before this change cyclone was very powerful for its cost and ease of access. If cyclone was 200/100 and 3 or 4 supply unit it would be fine as it is now, but this double buffing is too much.
i think its gonna do wonders vs roaches
Are you kidding 3 or 4 supply for this? 3 is lurker or tank 4 is immortal...then make stalker zealot also 3 to 4 supply? Limited production by tech lab was easy to acces is same if prottos make stalker from robo LOL. Before was nonplayable unit with very high cost and slow production NWM i think they still nerf them , they try to make mech viable agansit toss = no die to GW all ins what was comical because terran higher tier died to lower tier , and easier to take 3 bases , just change the stupid advantage of toss for no reason against mech....also make game less micro intensive for terran...in lower league...Just make cyclone good in early game and shit in Lategame thats all.Terran mech only need good reliable unit in early game to stay alive then trasnition to tanks and thors...or Starport.
@@anupew3276 What blunt did you hit that made you think the Cyclone is as good as the tank?
@sc2fanterranplayer Look uThermal seriesine Cyclone to GM, even before it was a very powerful unit with a proper micro. Also currently in the new patch cyclone is way too good in the early game, it's almost impossible to stop any decent cyclone all in. Not everyone always playing a macro game, lol.
What was the point of the patch again?
Delete protoss without actually deleting protoss?
Give Terran more options than Widow Mine Drops which I think is not a bad thought per se
Immortals don't shoot up. They should murder cyclones when even on upgrades. This is op.
wrr
Technically they do, the thing is Immortals can't kill what they can't catch up to.
Personally, they should lean more into the anti-air role, by reducing their ground range and increasing the air range.
@@Appletank8 so basically make it a Goliath. I approve.
@@dude6935 Yes I have been mad about the Viking outranging the Cyclone for years.
For what the problem of mech TvP is stalkers and zealot not carriers....cause helion are garbage and terran dont have mech unit that can be massed and is effective.. also had problem to take 3d
Now cyclone counter all protoss unit except immortal NICE BALANCE
Yeah, even more insane DPS than before. It's like 30 DPS. And with more HP.
So make immortals. Immortal + sentry already massively buffed against ghosts so you cant complain about that. Whats the problem?
@@kaiser2261 The problem is that by the time you have 1 immortal out, the opponent will have like 4 cyclones in your base. That's how the production with reactors and the superior move speed of the cyclone works.
And also it will become a game of building a far less mobile army of immortals or have everything you own countered.
@@kaiser2261 play the game first
@@Leonhart_93 im trolling tbh
I'm Terran, and I hate fighting agaist protos specially stalkers, but I have to admit that the cyclone looks broken now.
I hate this cyclone update. This is an INSANE change and it is going to get nerfed at somepoint, because wtf are they doing. Old cyclones were 18+2, new ones vs armored are 15+2 and they attack substantially faster, and they barely need anymore micro besides a minor amount of stutter stepping a-moving forward. Not to mention the health boost. This change basically took cyclones from a micro unit and kite, to an a-move forward unit.
Serious question to the balancers...what exactly is protoss supposed to build vs this to reach a point where they can potentially build a counter? Zealots? They get kited hard, also heavy zealot investment puts you behind in other areas. Blink stalkers can't match at an even footing, but you can build cyclones faster, and before you had blink mobility helping out, but cyclone speed means they can match overall map movement. Static defense? Well cyclones do 50% more damage in this iteration to static defense. Adepts? They have less health, less dps, and essentially less mobility than cyclones. Cyclones out trade any air units, and can mass faster than phoenix's. Okay so you get your robo up, how many immortals do you need to beat 20 cyclones?
Here is my prediction for how terran vs protoss goes. 1) Build 20 cyclones, 2) move into toss main. 3) Win in 7 to 8 minutes, because right now cyclones don't have a counter for protoss.
The kicker for me though, is zerg have still been trying to figure out how to manage the cyclone pressure as is. Well the change didn't make zerglings survive an additional shot, it didn't make hydras survive an additional shot, it makes queens survive 2 additional shots but they already were getting wrecked super hard...also it takes even more queen attacks to kill a cyclone now. Roaches die in 11 hits rather than 15. The ravager ironically is tankier vs cyclones than the roach and can survive 14 hits. So with this change, it basically is a straight buff to cyclones vs zerg in large part because of tankiness changes.
Thanks for the vid HM and being pretty objective. This cyclone is uh... very strong with little tech required.
This is hilarious. I laughed myself silly all through this video.
Who thinks this is a good idea? Is the balance team made up exclusively of terran players? How could the cyclone have gotten buffed AGAIN?
This whole video is just like "Cyclones fight this, look at that, totally stomp it, okay lets have cyclones fight this other thing, look at that, cyclones totally stomp that too..." on and on, over and over again.
Its like a showcase of how obscenely OP these things are.
And when you start thinking about what this will do to lower leages - even if by some terrible miracle pros wind up considering this to be balance (no idea how that could happen), players in the metal tiers are going to be just traumatized by terran players.
What are people thinking?
Somehow we’ve come full circle and arrived at the warhound. Honestly, let’s just swap the model at this point because a mech is cooler then a brick with wheels.
I vote Goliaths instead of Warhounds, although both are pretty cool.
so cylcone become a ground "voidray" with lot less HP and at cost of a stalker
Still had less dmg and HP than Zealot what cost only minerals and need one building to produce.....
More like a ground phx. Since it can kite and shoot. Yeah, broken.
They increase the cost of the cyclone from 125min 50 gas to 100min 100 gas
While also being one of the fastest units in the game.
@@sc2fanterranplayer Zealot is a Fucking melee unit, are you okay, buddy? 😂
Cyclones went from pushovers to Carrier killers 😢
the cyclone is too powerful now especially off of a reactor. I'd rather see damage decreased and range increased to encourage more micro. There also needs to be a hard counter to the cyclone.
You had it immortal....
@sc2fanterranplayer Oh yeah immortal, a very slow niche unit that costs a bunch of minerals. xD
Why the hell Cyclones also counter chargelots, a unit that hellions already counter and that's supposed to be used against fast units that are hard to catch?
yes if it can be build of reactor the buld time need to be 50% longer or so
If I understand correctly, cyclone does 21 damage vs armored at +3 and shoots 2 times per second, so not accounting for armor it does 42 dps. Old cyclone does 600 damage over 14 seconds, which is also 42 dps. They reduced the price, tech requirements and supply cost while almost not changing damage. Game is balanced by terrans.
You have halve the range.@@Tdvtdvtdv
i think even the most terran biased player would agree this last change made the cyclone OP.
You don’t Know terrans, they will still search for ways to say they Are underperforming
I dont want to blame the balance team as they are the people trying to make the game better. But so far this balance patch is going to make terran mech a deathball army like skytoss. F2a forward to vaporize everything in low league.
Considering they supposedly officially stopped doing balance patches a while ago...
Ill take all the messy PTBs they want to give us
@@lastleft5809 Hats off to the balance team but they gotta keep working on this thing.
Based on the games I saw cyclones were overpowered already, everyone already asked them to nerf the unit and they buffed it instead. 😂
While in this testing the cyclone looks op, it should be noted that ladder maps do not have open fields such as this one, so that may be to the protoss advantage. But yeah, 15 dmg vs armoured is a little bit too much together with the 20 hp buff
You also don’t have 75 Cyclones vs 30 Carriers in a real game. This is solely a reprensentation on raw strength. Go ahead and do the same with the current Cyclone it will not trade well against all Protoss Units like this one😅
Well definitely not, this post was meant to address everyone saying the new cyclone is busted
@@_Libo_ surprise it isnt learn the game kiddie
@@gohasuka9788 if your rank is below masters 3, be so kind and stop telling me to learn the game, thank you
@@_Libo_ hahaha i am a lot higher but ok xD
Terran does not need this all-round efficient cyclone. Maybe the previous cyclone before the buff could be alright, this one is just OP.
i like how it has almost best dps in the game for no fucking reason and terrans will still say it's underperforming
This change is not live. Cyclone will get nerfed a few times before this is live, followed by a few Zerg buffs
@@kaiser2261when was the Last zerg buff?
@@gerkahn8179 hydras, BL movement speed increase, ultras scale and price, fungal avail at spawn, reduction in upgrade costs across the board, and indirectly via nerfs to toss and terran
go play terran, friend
@@kaiser2261 hydra buff already cancelled. Fungal avaiable initially But has less Range. I want Fungal with 10 Range to try to Connect with Ghosts. I think its way harder now and it was Not easy before.
Ultra size reduction is a buff, I agree
Cost reduction wont change anything.
BL movement Speed change is a nerf in my opinion, they Are still to Slow whilst lacking Range nowadays to stop the terran Army from moving forward.
Im quite sure with the broodling nerf, marines or the new Cyclones Are Able to move undernesth them and kill them Even easier than before.
Hope this patch Never gets through.
Other than that, what is the nerf to terran ? What is the nerf to protoss with regard to the zerg matchup?
U should play this tester with ur high gm friends that way u both can control 1 armyto get more rwalistic result
This is what incompetence looks like.
These look a bit broken Vs toss, such a massable unit shouldn't be this strong Vs blink stalkers for equal cost.
Especially when stalkers are the unit that's supposed to counter them... Protoss has nothing else they can use for the purpose. Immortals are way too slow to respond to cyclones, and can be kited way more effectively than is implied in the video (yes, the cyclones take a hit, but they can still kite with the 9 range after locking on). IMO, cyclones were fine as they were vs Toss. They aren't a unit that should be strong in straight fights when massed; they have way too much mobility for that, and the ability to attack while moving combined with that makes them very difficult to respond to. Terran can already handle beat blink stalkers pretty reasonably with EMP or a few tanks to support.
The first version of the changes was less broken vs protoss, but apparently it was way too strong vs zerg. This change seems to have been made to make them less strong vs things like queens and hydras while keeping them strong vs stalkers, but they may have overcompensated. I think 12 or 13 damage a shot vs armored is probably fine, but 15 is apparently too much.
@@Matt-ln7lb tbh I don't think Stalkers ever countered Cyclones. They just traded okay at best.
@@RuneKatashima As long as the stalkers used blink or a prism defensively, they traded extremely favorably vs cyclones, and they have enough mobility and range to reasonably contend with them.
Though, without blink they didn't do particularly well, and nothing else even makes sense to use vs cyclones, so Protoss was pretty much forced to go blink vs cyclone openers.
The reaction seemed to be based largely on the idea of pure cyclone as the composition vs protoss, which is just kind of absurd. Tanks are added to bio specifically to deal with blink, so it seems kind of crazy to me not to add them when going cyclone mech vs Protoss, especially since you need a tech lab for the speed upgrade anyway. Adding in ghosts and using EMP also made cyclones trade extremely favorably even vs blink.
Can you show when terran pro builds tank TvP ....Tank get destroy by tier one unit with sport shoes and blades, only first push had 2-3 Tanks before charge tier 2.5 with 150 125 cost get totally destroy by 100 mineral unit imagine marines destroying collosus and templars thas absurd.And is not absurd for you fact the factory units are counterd by Gw units?
So cyclone now beat every Protoss units except immortals. I think cyclone can also beat immortals with 4-5 emps. That means cyclone with ghosts just wipe out all Protoss units. That’s insane..
Or maybe cylone + banshee or cyclone with marine, just cyclone with some units that counters immortals
Making the game fun for not only pros to play, but also casual players is always the hardest of balancing any game. At least the community is in charge now and can take more direct feedback.
Hello. i quit starcraft in 2014 as there wasnt a race that can spam a single unit and wiun like the dragoon so i didnt like it. can i come back now and just spam reaactor cyclone with as many base as i can?
Seems like the "new new" cyclone has a Warhound 2.0 problem where it looks good vs many units. And I feel that it breaks the identity of Terran mech in a way where it is mobile/powerful/"low"-cost unit.
Though I guess for people who have been screaming for years for a mech ground base anti air unit (goliath) will be quite happy with this.
The thing is, new Cyclone is kicking ground ass instead of air ass. Vikings still barely outrange Cyclones.
Where's the Protoss Robotics anti-air unit then? :/
@@RuneKatashima Here's an idea, Robo bay upgrade that gives Stalker a +5 to flying units.
As a Diamond3 Terran (3200MMR) and my offracing as Protoss (3620 MMR - funny since i know only one build ), I really appreciate a unit that acutally might counter nonstop blink stalker all ins (like 80% of protoss on my ladder do that). TvP is by far my worst setup ... I usually survive the acutal all in- but i can`t recover from the perma contain, I just can`t get up my third against constant protoss reinforcements. So this might actually help to get my MMRs on par.
wait, terran can now also have a keyboard faceroll unit like the other races ? nice !
Oh another terran complainer
It is simple. If an unit can easily kite, it should not win ANY head-to-head a-move battle. I don't understand why there are still some people complain about the previous version cyclone is too weak. It may not be good against some situations but it is not technically countered by any units as well.
I'd prefer if the Cyclone had the transformation gimmick of all other mech units, being fragile asf in its base form but enables kiting with the option to become bulkier (idk, maybe it becomes a rockets-only goliath?), but also way slower and with less range.
Make it so frail that it is useless in a straight up a-move battle (like the Hellion), but has an option that let's it become an a-move fighter more hp but much slower and with less range) but said option is way less effective than a properly microed base form Cyclone with kiting (like the Hellbat).
they gonna nerf the cyclone again. they don't know what they are doing
So what unit can counter this new cyclone?
Immortal also in video
Just get +3 immortals. Sure, Terran can start reactoring out mass cyclones right away, but just hope he never attacks until you finish +3.
Perhaps the goal is to just kill off protoss players permanently and it will be easier to balance when only t and z players remain.
how is it that this patch goal was to stabilize protoss but instead terran gets a unit that is good or decent vs all protoss units and cheap and requires no research to get? Now if the goal was to stabilize terran i would think this was a good change. I think this change completely misses the mark on the goal of the patch
Looks like they may be too eager with testing multiple changes. Purposefully overbuffing to force players to attempt/develop a counter strategy instead of using typical builds?
Would help them if they added context to the changes for explanation, a decent number people seem to think they're mad.
Uninformed guess, but I think 10 + 4 damage and the current speed changes is close to what they will decide on, removing the hp bonus.
From what I previously saw, cyclone countered zeotes and roaches but tend to be countered by stalker and zerglings. Now, protoss don't seam to have an early answer against cyclone and when it come to zerglings: cyclones are often seen with hellions in TvZ. I think they should make it a 12 damage vs all instead of a 10+5 vs armored.
+12 vs all wouldn't be much of a change from the last version of 11(+1 vs armored). It would actually make the situation worse for Zeg, who were complaining pretty hard about how well cyclones killed pretty much all of their early game units.
The solution might be to make them more like the Hellion, but vs armored instead of light. Low base damage with a high bonus to their intended targets. That way they'd be strong vs stalkers or roaches, but worse vs zealots or hydras.
However, that would go against the stated patch goal of making them a more all-around unit. Plus it would make them bad against Queens, and Queens need to have something that beats them.
@@matthewpelletier6900 why not reducing their attack speed to make them weak against swarm tactic since the whole "focus aim at the same target" thing seem to already push toward this direction and when it come to damage, maybe 6+8 vs armored.
I think a way of making it usefull and strong without making all terran duel becoming mass cyclone is to make it a specialist instead of a generalist like marine, making it really strong at what it do without allowing it to do everything forcing it to be paired with other unit to work properly as it should be.
To be honest, old cyclone couldnt counter any unit 💀 roach totally can destroy them
@@Undermine5 cutting their attack speed AND making them only hurt armored might be a bit too much of a nerf. They'd basically only work vs roaches and stalkers and be useless against everything else.
Phoenixes and Mutas would laugh at mech Terran because they would have no useful anti air vs light. A few Queens could shut down any early game mech push, because neither Hellions or Cyclones would do any damage to them.
@@matthewpelletier6900 Is there a unit in the game that have bonus vs air? I know the air tag exist on unit as it can be applied on custom unit when playing with the ingame modding tool, tag that is used when deciding if a weapon can't touch an air unit (roach, marauder and every "mele" unit) or could only aim at air unit (anti-air turret, viking, phoenix, corruptor) but I dont think there a unit that can aim every unit but have bonus vs air.
Feels like the Warhound from back in the day... thats too broken lol
This more reminds me of Diamondbacks since for all intents and purposes both can attack on the move.
When does this patch go live for everyone? I'm not seeing it yet on my end as a pleb user.
wth... I fear that the balance council has lost its focus. I thought the changes aimed to buff protoss a tad bit. Not give terran an all round amove unit to spam.
Seems like trying to make the cyclone win vs any unit instead of having a specific use is a bad idea. But that's just me...
I love the boldness of these patch changes. Starcraft2 is over 10 years old and we need a completely new Meta. I still remember the Archon toilet, and when mass raven seeker missle has late game Maur games become so funny to watch. We need a complete revamp and I can't wait to see future patches.
I'm so confused. Did we decide based on the tournament and other testing by all the pros that the Cyclone was already imba vs zerg? Why are we making it even better vs zerg by making it crush roaches even harder? Also, isn't it ok that the cyclone wasn't good vs toss, but was good vs zerg? Why does it need to be viable vs both races? NGL I would love to see an indepth explanation by the people on the balance council where they go over all their thinking as a group as to why these changes are necessary at the highest level and why they think it's a good idea.
I would also love to see how the balance council works, like how many of the pros have to agree to the changes before they go through?
To be honest, the Cyclone was pretty useless in all matchups
@@HeroMarineSc2 Fair enough. I'm not a pro and I watched your first video. I just also watched videos from Harstem and Pig and they were saying that pros had pretty much unanimously claimed that it was extremely strong vs zerg. So I wasn't sure
One thing you guys are missing is cyclone now have a definite disposition. It's a long way to conclude that it's too op toss have colosuss/disruptor zerg easily kill cyclone troop with infestor and even ling/ling can kill cyclone hellion troop. I think cyclone is a stepping stone for the midgame to hold out when playing mech it’s great unit on early-mid game but defineately it’s not for late game
It kills all Protoss units except T3 specialists. And even those get kited. It’s op
where do i read these latest changes?
"looks very good". u mean very broken, right? I mean same cost as stalker, yet stalker is weak cost-to-cost against pretty much all the terran units, while cyclone is powerful against all the protoss units sans immortal (?). and requires littel to no micro to win such even battles - a cherry on top
And fact the immmortals can beat all factory units with A move ? even this imba cyclone is okay for you? Thats not imba? And what is micro to zealot archon immortal A move?
They increase the cost of the cyclone from 125 min 50 gas to 100 min 100 gas so it no longer cost same as stalker
So what would be Protoss's real response to mass reactor Cyclone, if Blinkers get trashed like that? Especially at lower leagues, this will be so strong. Immortals will just get overwhelmed. If the goal is an a-move-friendly unit that can be reactored, then those stats will need to be nerfed a bit.
Its called micro.
@2012Apokalypse Mmmhmmm. Micro, yeah. If HeroMarine, a god of micro, was struggling vs these new Cyclones, something tells me they are too strong.
@@ZC.Andrew Struggeling?
i dunno. i feel like immortals should hard counter cyclones at every stage of the game. so, that worries me
I think sentries with force fields will be very important against cyclones. Immortals + force fields and zealots + charge to tank the damage and kill the trapped cyclones might be really good. Thoughts ?
I agree, he leaves out the fact that protoss upgrade costs and I think times have been reduced, leveling the playing field upgrade wise a little bit. Of course sentries have been buffed a few times recently so I can see their abilities make or breaking games from now on
yeah, these are waaaaay overtuned... wtf thought this was balanced? The mobility means it just overruns when stronger.
honestly the original ones seemed fine if not already too strong. it could easily pick off weaker groups of units, overrunning when outnumbering, while still being okayish in straight fights. It wasn't clearly OP or UP, so giving time to test it out would be good.
Even then, as I wrote this, it felt like the AA potential is too strong since it's competitive vs ground while killing basically any air - but then again, mech terran doesn't have other good AA options early so eh
Against toss, unupgraded gateway gets owned, it wrecks chargelots when kiting, and while blink stalkers could fight them off by out-trading with bink micro, they couldn't really chase since blinking in causes lock-on to trade well vs the stalkers as the cyclones retreated. mix in some tanks to hold the line/push and they do just fine, esp since if stalker blinks in to snipe tank, the cyclones would murder them in return. Robo units cannot even catch them, which only matters for immortal since they easily overrun+kill disruptors (or outrun nova) and collosus. Stargate units get murdered. Archons just get kited, templar can't work against their mobility + not-paper HP pool.
It could still be fine since it is still very expensive, and maybe sentry plays could help fight/catch them better, +micro hasn't been fully wokred out either side, too early to tell really
Against zerg, it either easily out-kites or kills everything except hydra into lurkers, including wrecking mass queens which is the current go-to early defense. Standard strat of going for flanks is super dangerous too since they can easily overrun a weaker flank. It again shuts down all air play too. Hydras aren't that great of an answer either since they need to deathball or still get overrun, while being less mobile, and lurkers carry similar risk. Again, it could still be OK since it is expensive, zerg has a lot of flexibility to adapt production, and the new infestors could be a good shut-down.
I haven't seen TvT with it but if it's any good at all, it'll make for super toxic games imo where the sheer mobility means the side with a slight edge in any engagement just immediately overruns the other.
Yes, cyclones kills all protoss units, great balance)
i remind cyclones hp was changed to 100, was it reverted back to 120 just today?
The Terran Conglamorate did really make sure, that Terran wins every single Tournament if this Cyclone change wents live! They are so strong its insane!
Ussaly is in top 8 5-6 zerg 1 terran and 1 toss... if maru not playing they will not win much tournaments...Is by player not by race
@@sc2fanterranplayer ...1 Terran? Please tell me you aren't serious right now.
@@theNefariousNoogiehe probably isn't, just take a look at his replies on other comments, dude must be trolling
Wow, I am very surprised they buffed cyclone vs stalkers. The entire reason why massing 1 unit generally doesn't work is because the opponent can just mass the counter unit and shut it down.
So what is the counter unit against cyclones now? +3 immortals? lol?
Don't you get it? Protoss isn't supposed to win at the pro level...
15:46 "lets do void rays haha" lol
What is the unit tester name?
What I gathered from this, and I kind of already knew. Is that the Carrier isn't good against anything. Except structures and even that's debatable.
Btw you forgot the armor upgrade in the Colossus fight.
Mass carrier is good against everything other than a few counters if they are used with decent micro. It's just that they over buffed the Cyclones, lol.
Whats the map name
juhu but even no more zerg nerfs why ?
Before everyone panics that the new cyclone is going to ruin SC2, bear in mind that it is in testing/iteration. If it proves as broken as it looks in this video, it will of course be nerfed before the patch goes live. I guess the concern was the former cyclone redesign was not strong enough & would be too easily countered with immortals and we'd go back to standard mandatory terran bio play. But they look to have overcorrected. The speed changes look good, but the bonus damage vs armoured looks too high.
They could consider (1) having a separate/additional upgrade for bonus damage against armoured (suspect this would not be enough); (2) reintroduce a cooldown on lock-on, though a shorter one than previously - maybe 2 seconds; (3) increasing the cyclone's cost to 150/50; or (3) having two "modes" for the cyclone like the thor, one of which was similar to the first patch; and a second extra-damage vs armoured mode (probably with a range buff also), but one that comes at the cost of reintroducing a cooldown on lock on, so it is better against armoured/high value units on this mode, but weaker against mass/low value units.
I think it is clear from your testing/demonstration that the latest revision makes the cyclone way too strong as is.
The cost was increase from 125 min 50 gas to 100 min 100 gas that is 50 gas increase and 25 mineral reduction.
I watched Harstem being totally destroyed by Cyclones in most of his games on the new patch even against much weaker players...
more buffs for terrans. great.
What are you talking about terran mech is unplayable vs toss for 10 years
can anyone link where to see the changelogs?
Warhound 2.0 baby.
wait where is the link for the change
+1
rentry.co/5012balancetest
This looks like trash. There's only 1 viable counter (immo) and as you said, they can't be built nearly as quickly as cyclones on a reactor.
Only way I can see this working is if they change Cyclone from Armored to Light (0 armor), so that adepts, colossus, carriers, and even zealots trade better with them.
Also the bonus health should just be core to the unit, not part of an upgrade (especially to make it easier to monitor balance).
Also worth noting that landed Vikings have bonus dmg vs mechanical. It would be nice to see those factor into Mech armies vs Protoss... which won't happen if the Cyclone is a catch-all unit.
Also hero marine I think you're kiting the zealots wrong, if you a move and right click fast enough the cyclones don't stop moving when they stutter step, I tried this same fights and finished with 5 or so more cyclones.
what is the name of that unit tester?
Idk how a whole balance counsil can agree on this redicilous change. That patch could easily kill the game.
Oh yeah, cyclones with a move should beat toss with even recources and micro ....
If even the strongest t3 lategame unit cant trade evenly vs a t2 early cheap mass produced unit u know the game is in a bad state.
Glad i unistalled this shitshow of a game, maybe coming back in SC3 when toss is viable again
And the fact the zealots tier 1 demolish tanks 2.5 is okay for you?
Why is Zerg getting another round of buffs? Fucking insane.
hes so happy about this buff since he hates blink stalkers in early game lol
Like my god, mech is the most braindead abusable strategy vZ below middle of masters to the point there's like a 1300 mmr difference between the players to win. Its already as bad as the voidray meta ever was and that's mech IN ITS CURRENT FORM.
They want to BUFF it. I am so so so glad I quit this anti zerg game. No wonder there are so few zergs on ladder and there will be far less because of this toxic shit.
The thing is, in lower leagues, there is no counter or even a soft check to mech as it is, and god forbid its turtlemech.
Its just beyond me that they want to make the most toxic thing in the game and make it MORE toxic. I'm just done. Whatever hope i had to come back to the game is just gone now.
Peak clown council Lmao.
Proxy cyclones 😂
There not point to play bio in any match up at this point xD
I know this is about the cyclone, but can anyone tell me why the hydra cant get its upgrades combined? Without the upgrades, its a weak unit, only with both it gets "normal"
Just my opinion, correct me if I'm wrong
Goliath online.
I still think that the cyclone should be made lategame viable with an Armor pen upgrade rather than increasing base dmg.
11 against all and an upgrade on the fusion core that makes it ignore Armor would be the way to go.
Reliant on speed and micro in the early game.
Massable army unit in the lategame.
This seems waay too busted, I won't even bother thinking about it cause I really doubt this goes through
Can cyclones attack/lock on intercetors?
They can, but the patch at the beginning of the year made it so interceptors have lower target priority than carriers. This means units will automatically target the carrier instead of the interceptor if they're both in range.
@@matthewpelletier6900 I know about the patch, I was just curious if the lock on ability will be casted on the interceptors because I'm unsure if they count as valid targets
Cyclones must either be removed from the game or made much much weaker
Might want to modulate you voice volume, you have these huge volume spikes when you say "ummmm" or "ok", ITS LIKE YOUR YELLING. Try to have constant volume. It hurts.
Just gonna spam concussive marauders lol
Good content!
The cyclone rework is too heavy handed and should be scrapped altogether. same with mothership.
Cyclone’s range is way too far it’s ridiculous
increasing the health by 20 AND the vs armor damage is a bit much.
Important question : How do you deal with tank ?
I am glad I dont play protoss when seeing this cyclones :D
these monobattle scenarios are not that useful. youll never encounter just 20 void rays without high templars and 20 zealots along with it. or just stalkers without zealots
Say toss makes a diverse army of blink stalkers, chargelots, sentries, and immortals vs pure cyclones. Cyclones just need to take out the few immortals and will smash everything else. Toss only wins if they get great forcefields and keeps their immortals alive. And toss is not going to have blink, charge, and immortals (with +3 to 2 shot) vs an early cyclone push
6min no map that large to fight like that and proto are no brain player that might work like that..feel good all propose queen got destroy..lately noone even scout terran anymore bc they really dont hv option marine low tier unit...😊
Sounds like we need to just remove the cyclone
Cyclones 4Life!
The intern is being well watered.
Cost, supply, and off a reactor makes them OP. Make them cost a bit more gas. I don't know why SC2 decided things can only cost in multiples of 25, but 125/50 is too cheap, 125/75 is probably too expensive. 125/60 or 65 would be good
You didn't read the patch notes they increase the gas cost but build the same time. So from 125 minerals 50 gas to 100 min 100 gas
I wish the council takes more time in making huge changes like this. Or just leave the game as it is.
I think this is appropriate balance vs zerg, but seems too much vs protoss at first glance. Would be interesting to see how it fairs in-game
And if they are this strong vs Protoss, they'll be even more OP vs Zerg. They both outrage and outgun any Zerg ranged units, and can kite mass Lings to death with a few Hellions mixed in. Super OP
wrg
Yup, way too OP. 😆 terran bronze league players can now reach GM just massing cyclones.. 😆 🤣
yay, more zerg buff!! My hydras will be happy ♥
Yeah, I don't like this cyclone change. I think they need to seriously thin k this through more, see massive problems with zvT and pvt. Make the cyclone off a tech lab still, and leave the other changes. If I can get 12 cyclones out super fast reactored, it is going to basically insta win tvz, and tvp.. unless I fuck up.
Too much