Ever since switching to Lumix, I finally see the biases that companies give to brands and what they're known for. Thanks for making this comparison video as it shows that pretty much any camera, no matter the brand, can do well and your brand doesn't equal your skill!
Well said mate - it's not about what you shoot with, it's about how you use it. Granted, the S9 has its limitations, but to stand there and say that the ZV-E10II is a better camera is just ridiculous (and a lot of creators decided to give glowing reviews on that camera while bashing the S9 and dismissing it without giving it a chance).
people will say you are a lumix fanboy defending but i can tell you you are absolutely right. Also the lumix s9 has 6k which no camera near the range has and has 4 2 2 10 bit in all modes
@@kiez_insider I’m not sponsored by Panasonic. I don’t get paid anything to talk about their equipment, and I never have been. I’m just someone that really enjoys their products. Granted, I have a connection with the company in the sense that they allow me to get hands on with the latest releases from time to time, but that’s honestly as far as it goes :)
Great assessment Josh - and I think I agree on all points. The main issue I have with this video is that you highlighted the S9 going for £1,099 and now I'm finding it hard to resist buying one. DAMMIT!
Absolutely nailed it! I was baffled seeing exactly what you are describing, “creators”!glossing over the fact that this has no EVF and no MS, the problem is that most those same creators harshly marked this as big “FLAW” in the S9… what?
thank you for that video Josh. As a Sony & Lumix shooter I have to say I love both brands for different reasons. But I have to admit that meanwhile most of the time I am reaching for my Lumixes nowadays.
IMHO a camera positioned for content creators and missing the most important feature like Image Stabilisation is the biggest deal breaker. While Sony makes awesome cameras but they are infamous for resorting to selling cameras inferior in features and riding purely on bias and marketing gimmicks. Glad you said this.
Agreed, it's like they don't even test the cameras in the intended circumstances, evidenced by the removal of optical stabilisation on the ZV-1 II vs the original that had it. They're just hoping that Catalyst Browse can make up for it and Sony fans always mention this as if it fixes everything. I don't think it does, considering the additional processing time + the fact it doesn't work with motion blur/180 degree shutter.
Yeah that's absolutely correct. People are always biased towards Sony, even though they don't understand it. I shocked to see why people desperately hate Lumix without any reason. I hope Mr.Undone will see this.
I’ve had the S9 for a few months, absolutely love it. I use it almost daily. The thing that I think has been missed most from the reviews is actually the experience and workflow with the app. Most reviewers briefly mentioned it, but I don’t remember it really being properly shown. The auto-transfer is really solid, it’s great having all the images I take quickly transferred to my phone. That was (practically) impossible with the lumix sync app on my S5ii because of the slow transfer times and general instability. The lumix lab app an S9 is a whole other thing. Then of course the LUTs and the app turns a cool feature on the S5ii, into a killer feature on S9. I’ve loaded up dozens of my film simulation LUTs into it, and a bunch of other creative styles. On the S5ii you have to faff about making them on pc and loading via sd card, but the app with S9 makes it so much more accessible. I feel like the app experience with the camera really needs to be talked about a lot more.
I think it's just a camera brand bias not necessarily a Sony bias but I'm totally with you. Even though the S9 got hate, I think in a way it was a good thing. Most people don't care about the drama and will buy the cameras they want to buy and not even notice the noise especially beginners. If anything it made more people aware of LUMIX. But to me it showed a lot of creators true colors. What mostly bothered me is it made a lot of us creators/youtubers who genuinely like LUMIX seem like sellouts, which is totally untrue. I just genuinely like LUMIX more. Keep doin you👊
I am a Sony fan in general and an S9 fan specifically, I picked S9 because it has no protruding grip on the right hand side, it is clean flush as on a Leica camera of all classic cameras including Nikon F and F2. I went to photography school and we were tought how to hold a no-grip camera. The aesthetics of the S9 was a decisive factor, my S9 is red, I love it. Since I have the S9, I havent't touched by beloved A7III. I have two Sigma compact prime lenses for the S9, simply a perfect combo, always-with-me small kit. As for the 15 minute recording limit: I completely changed my recording strategy, and today I prepare much better my captures, to minimise the waste-runs of long minutes that would be cut out anyway. At the beginning the S9 overheated upon me, and that was a warning to me that something I don't do efficiently. I don't record entiry sports events for documentary with S9, sure, but I was able to record significant portions of an entire concert two weeks ago. Anyhow, your comparison is not really fair: the FF S9 kills any APS-C cameras, sure. Compare the S9 to the ZV-E1 they are in the same weight. The zoom lever on the Sony's is cool, nevertheless, I still have the A5100, and it is absolutely amazing, it overheats like hell, but you can and should learn how to optimize your process for that limitation, that was the reason I used it with a Ninja2, no overheating any more.
1:55 well the A7cII has mechanical shutter, it is just crippled. It has only one curtain. But there is one and it is fine up to 1/1000s, than some problems start to show up.
@@miklosnemeth8566the bokeh ball will be cut in half if shutter speed higher than 1/2000, and the size of bokeh ball will reduce a little bit, for example from the size at f1.4 to size at f1.6(but same amount of light was let in)
@@miklosnemeth8566 the bokeh gets cut to half, instead of circle you get half circle and the exposure is not even on the frame, you can't use HSS with flash.
Interesting comparison Josh, and I always appreciate your calm and considered approach. For many video creators, including myself, the time limit is the biggest issue on the S9. Not for b-roll obviously, but for the main piece to camera. Mine often go on for about 45mins before editing. Even if you rarely do long takes like that, the limitation is in the back of your mind. So yes, I agree, it would be much more attractive if they removed the limit, or at least made it optional on a menu.
Always great to hear from you, Gordon! I'm really hoping that Lumix will offer some form of improvement to the time limit restrictions at some point, and I can't see why that couldn't be introduced with firmware. While the recording limit doesn't affect me or my use case, I can totally understand why it leaves some feeling a little anxious. Hopefully if they do make a change with FW then it may help to get the S9 into more people's camera bag :)
Funny I have never seen a scene in a Hollywood or major TV production that ran for more than 15 seconds. Maybe you "creatives" need to learn how to actually film cinema and not just burn thru memory cards and spend days editing a bunch of worthless footage.
@@silbay first, why are you even watching these videos if they make you so angry? You need to change what you watch. Second, none of us are making cinema or major TV productions here. We're filming a long piece to camera, like an interview. If you have ever watched an interview on TV, they have their cameras rolling non-stop for well over 30 minutes, hours sometimes. We see edited footage, but the raw footage is non-stop. it has to be or you might miss something, plus you don't stop an interview to say you need to change cards or to start a new recording. Anyway, now go and watch something that makes you happy.
I think the S9 got bashed on partially because it did not launch with an obvious lens to pair it with. The L-mount ecosystem is missing a good F/2.8 near-pancake lens that you can find on other mounts (i.e. Canon, Nikon and Sony). My biggest issue with the S9 is that it is terrible value relative to other Lumix offerings. I just purchased the S5IIX with a 50mm 1.8 for $1845. That's significantly better value for the money than the $1500 the S9 body costs. Appreciate the video and the Lumix content Josh. The lens videos, in particularly, have been helpful making my initial gear selections for my camera.
The same thing happened with the Blackmagic Pyxis. Many influencers complained that the screen could not flip out (although all professionals tend to use external screens anyways) but yet they say the Sony FX6's lack of an internal screen was not an issue. I just couldn't understand it...
I think you really did a fair comparison here. I didn’t realize how similar these cameras were in terms of the gripes many had with the S9. I’ve shot plenty on both Sony, Canon, and Lumix and prefer the look of the Lumix, and now that they’ve put it in such an approachable camera I hope people really do get the S9 in their hands to see how good it is. It’s a way better but then the more cost effective Sony equivalent. Thanks for making this video! Also, is that a new watch? That gold was blinding bro 😎
Thanks mate, I've tried to be as fair as I can, but I do think there's an overwhelming bias on RUclips, and I wish people did their own research before writing certain products off. Hahaha! The watch was a gift from Han for my birthday last year!
I know "don't count your chickens before they hatch", the history of providing free features and firmware upgrades of Panasonic gears is first class. Sony "tends" to sell you small incremental upgraded new "hardware" instead.
@@francistcp preach! So true, a lot of people don’t consider the future firmware development path and instead focus on what it does on release. Lumix have a fantastic track record of making big improvements through firmware updates. During my time shooting with Sony, I can’t even remember getting any firmware updates that weren’t bug fixes…
Great video Josh, I've been wanting to tackle this myself but it's so difficult to to find the correct tact. It is clear that there is a bias towards Sony gear and recent events regarding certain creators and their opportune timing with Lumix critiques reflect those biases. As a small creator I'll get labelled as a fanboy by the fans of these creators and invalidated by the creators themselves. The truth is we all have biases and that's fine, but we should be honest about those biases and expect a degree of objectivity from people reviewing equipment.
Poor brand awareness. RUclips is inundated with Sony and Canon users for video, and then Fuji users for photo. Lumix really feels like a niche, and ultimately people trust what they see more of. This is changing though, and I hope that sooner or later, the wider audience realises what value can be had if you invest in Panasonic :)
@@JoshCameron Yes, perception is changing. That said, Lumix is losing steam. We NEED that S1H mark II. It's cool if it's still 6K IMO. However, we need internal raw (BRAW would be a dream), internal nds, and a stacked sensor. Those things along with some faster recording options would be enough. I'm honestly holding back on the C400 to see what Lumix is going to do with the S1H II. They need to come on.
lets be honest who is using a flash on a camera designed for travel, vloggers, and not professional work 😂 I mean a headphone jack would have been nice, but honestly as long as they make the record limits to the S9 unlimited or at least 30 minutes, or give us the control to change it. Then the S9 is the hands down winner! Great video mate!
Let's be honest - who is shooting 30- minute clips? Not filmmakers, not vloggers, not the person here, almost nobody. And for long clips you need to lock the camera down, so no point having a compact camera. Few if any videographers care about 15 or even 10- minute limits on "takes."
@@markr041I shoot 30 minutes plus all the time because I shoot live performances. It’s a bit of an annoyance when I do them by myself and have to run between two cameras in two different locations, even if I stagger the timing.
@hemzheru Let me answer you first about your use of cameras with an analogy: Panasonic releases a 24mm lens. Someone posts that they exclusively shoot birds in flight and that this lens is useless. What a disappointment. Now, for you: why are you even looking at a compact camera with world leading stabilization and great AF given what you do with cameras? You don't need IBIS; you probably should use manual focus, and you don't need a small size or light weight. If you do need FF and small size, look at the Sigma fp. It has no IBIS and it's AF sucks. But no time limit.
@@markr041 I was looking for the S5 because it’s a Jack of all trades camera. I don’t JUST shoot performances. I don’t JUST do weddings, or event coverage, or documentary work, or etc. I do all of that, and these cameras are pretty great at doing all of that, in a lightweight run and gun body that has awesome SOOC colors. One limitation that annoys me in the pursuit of all that work though? Recording limits.
I'm in LOVE with my S9. Before Lumix announced it, I had the ZV-E bookmarked as the one I'm gonna buy. Specifically looking for that small form factor with no professional extra things that take the price way too high (hot shoe, two SD cards yada yada). I'm so glad I waited, as buying a camera was not a priority and I already had a Sony I wasn't happy with, and yet still chose my next compact setup to be Sony based on internet recommendations. You are so spot on that internet was supporting the ZV-E, praising it, because I didn't even want Sony but this recommendation was everywhere I couldn't escape it. The first video of S9 I saw was Tony Northrup announcing it so randomly, and when he talked about the specs, I just knew that this camera is exactly what I've been waiting for. I felt no bias in his video, it was purely reporting the features of a newly announced camera. I got so excited for the combination of features on it, and the features Lumix gave up to reduce the price - it's just perfect in my opinion. It really feels revolutionary to me. I'm still surprised by the lack of support from the grander camera community, but I don't care, I'm just enjoying my new S9, looking at gorgeous pictures from my last trip. I was in LA on a sunny day in August - not once did the lack of view finder hinder me from framing my shot. I think it's because I'm the target demographic who was used to using my phone, so it literally is no different, just a much better quality image as a result. I LOVE Lumix for coming out with this product, and I would not change a single thing about it. I've yet to figure how everyone makes that V-log footage though, but I'm sure I'll be learning to use this camera for the next year as there is a lot to be discovered when you upgrade from a phone.
As a S5ii user, I tried a S9 but decided I’d be better with a 3rd S5ii unit and as it was €200 cheaper (used), helped make the decision even more clear. But at closer to 1000, that probably would have swung the S9 as my third unit. Build, 2 card slots, fan were what swung it for me though in favour of the S5ii. Also a Sony user (for stills) but find there are very few bodies that meet my specific requirements, one of those being the A7RV which is just superb. Not a contender here though, but quite like the idea of a ZV-E1 as an alternative to an S9….
Well done. Finally someone thinking and saying exactly what I’ve always been thinking 👌🏼 To answer your question: It’s all due to the Sony fans ..the Sony hype. Don’t get me wrong, Sony is very good but popular because of the hype and the fact that there are lots of Sony fans. And it seems like they have to bash other brands, especially when it’s getting dangerous. I’d say, people just look at the comparison here and be honest. Again we’ll done. You didn’t even mentioned the pro of having the MP4 Lite 4K OG which is very very nice for social.
I got the A6700 last year and the S9 this year. All the negativity didn't dissuade me from getting the S9. Love the looks in camera and the LUMIX Lab app. Hell the app makes the LUMIX a better camera. Lots' of fun compared to Sony Creators app that is basically useless even when it will connect. 🤣
Great video! Thanks! I am actually a Nikon shooter. But when looking for a compact camera for both photo and video I landed on Sony ZV-E10, the old 8 bit one. Sony is my least favorite camera brand, so it was not an easy choice. Two main reasons I got the ZV-E10. 1: Shotgun microphones that connect to the hot shoe, no battery or wire needed 2: Catalyst Browse software that does a great job of stabilizing in post. The S9 came out after I made my decision to go with a Sony APS-C and I was really itching to upgrade, but the lack of a hot shoe and having to find another way to stabilize in post stopped me. Now, bear in mind that I am a total amateur when it comes to video. I expect I will make another choice when I become better at filming, editing and post production.
In Oktober we are going to Osaka and I am definitely going to pick up a S9 The perfect camera which I can use for traveling AND professional use. It wil be my 2nd body and a good investment in my small videography company. ❤lumix
A camera is just a box that help me show my dreams. Where you start may determine what your next box will be. For me that box, my first camera was the ZV-E10 the first one. I enjoyed it and bought a few lenses for it. It taught me how to tough it out to make good photos and films with what I had. I bought a new box, the a6700 and I got to reuse all the lenses I had instead of having to sell everything and start over. For the E10 and a6700 there are a lot of lenses cheap and otherwise to help me make my dreams. If your camera does that for you I am very happy for you go out and make some good stuff. I think if I want to walk and vlog I would get a Pocket 3.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts about this and fostering this discussion. I think another reason for the bias is probably the lens selection. The E-mounts are more developed and have a lot more choices in terms of high quality, small form-factor lenses. There's a lot of people interested in small, lightweight, fast cameras that have less intimidating profiles than your normal "big" cameras. I hold a lot of value in a great "wolf in sheep's clothing" camera that looks like a point-and-shoot. The S9 sounds like an amazing camera, but it's weakness lies within the system's L-mount system. The L-mount system simply lacks small lenses aside from that f8 pancake. I personally underwent a journey to find a better EDC camera than what I have (which because of the work I do are the Lumix S5, GH5, G85, and Nikon D750 camera bodies). Even the G85 was a too big with it's handle for my very specific needs. I ended up going MFT with the GX85 paired with the 20mm f1.7. I went this route because I valued the smallest form factor possible. Its certainly not perfect and in fact the AF with this combo is sooo slow, but I have very specific needs. So please L-mount alliance, make developing lenses with a small form factor design ethos a priority in your pipeline. Then we'd have a killer camera with lenses that match it's small form factor. As a start, we need a tiny wide-normal range short zoom (ok if it's slower and variable aperture), and some fast but tiny primes (I'd be ok with f2.8). How closely can you mimic the design of the FF equivalent of the MFT 14mm f2.8, and 20mm f1.7? Just my 2 cents.
Sigma already makes small L-mount lenses: 17mm, 24mm, 45mm, 65mm and 90mm. They're not pancake lenses but small and light and work perfectly on the S9. No doubt Panasonic will release some smaller lenses, e.g. 18-40mm coming soon. BTW, I had a GX85 with 14mm and 20mm pancake lenses. The S9 with a few small Sigma lenses blows the m4/3 kit out of the park in terms of IQ and features, and it's not much different in size.
Re your EDC -- the GX85 with 20mm pancake. Yeah that lens is slow (but it's what I usually carry as well). The Oly 18mm is supposed to be much quicker fwiw. I upgraded from the GX85 to the GX9 -- very similar form-factor (but heavier!). A worthy upgrade imo
Sony Camera Reviews definitely need to change 🤨☝️ PS: the Sony A7CII has ONLY First curtain mechanical shutter which theoretically is inferior to first and second curtain (full) mechanical shutter… but honestly I haven’t had an issue with the S9 ES.
I think the S9 was really being compared to the S5II & S5IIx, even though it was more for a ZV-E10II audience. Plus, it had the wrong lens at launch. I am waiting for black friday discounts to get one. Thanks.
I totally agree with you. People are being bias towards sony. I wouldn't buy the sony zve10ii without the ibis but every youtuber is saying it's awesome and forget other cameras like lumix and fuji
Hello Josh, Thanks for your honest review. I’m getting the S9! I hope you keep posting more content about it. Also, if we consider the hybrid zoom feature, it will make things harder for Sony.
Im so close to selling all my Sony gear and switching to Panasonic, all we need is higher record limit on S9 and a F2 pancake 20mm or 24mm lens. Have a S5IIX sitting in my cart w/ 18mm f1.8 for all talking head stuff. Thanks for the info and test.
Not a fan of the 18mm but, if you can get a S5II + 50mm for like $1500, do it...asap ! You wont regret it ! Matter of fact, B&H has the S5iiX & the 50mm TOGETHER, for $1800. Hell of a deal !
I agree Josh that there is bias. I was disappointed with the Chris/Jordan Petapixel review of the S9 where they claimed it was "baffling" (really?) and then the later comparison video against the ZV-E10ii where they claimed the Sony was better based mainly on ergo/handling and audio (headphone jack). That ignored key S9 features that have way more importance on final image/video output quality: the FF sensor, excellent IBIS, open gate, etc). Anyway, I traded in my GX85 + mft lenses for an S9 and some Sigma primes. So now I have the S5II with some Lumix zooms and an S9 with small Sigma primes (and the Lumix 26mm f8 which I love). The best of both worlds - one lens mount, one battery size, same menu system, awesome IQ. Loving it! 💯☑
Really glad to hear that you're enjoying your L-Mount kit, sounds like a really nice combo! I guess some people prioritise different things. For me, I rarely use the headphone jack, and I'd NEVER use in-camera audio. I've already spent money on decent wireless mic kits, so I don't understand why anyone would opt for an in-camera mic solution. Why spend £1000 on a camera for vlogging and then stop at the audio (arguably the most important thing). It baffles me, but if the world was made up of people that always agreed with you, I guess it'd be a boring place!
This was exactly what i was thinking the Sony seems more crippled than the S9 due to its lack of stabilization and other reviewers literally didn't care at all do they expect users who buy this because it's cheaper and small to buy something like a gimple which is bigger and additional expense. I just don't get the zv e10 ii
I make up my own mind on camera purchases. I appreciate insight and observations, but compare the influencers observations to my needs & considerations. I see lots of prescriptions but not so much diagnosis. I appreciate you and your rational take on the S9. Being in the L-mount world, this camera is a no-brainer to add to my arsenal- and I’m not a RUclips creator but a documentarian who wants a light, truly portable full-frame camera and an everyday carry. It looks perfect for that and I ordered mine yesterday.
I'm definitely interested in getting the S9. I want to get just one versatile lens though, geared toward vlog content. Would you recommend the 20-60 kit lens that it comes with, or something else?
As a S5ii user, I tried a S9 but decided I’d be better with a 3rd S5ii unit and as it was €200 cheaper (used), helped make the decision even more clear. But at closer to 1000, that probably would have swung the S9 as my third unit. Build, 2 card slots, fan were what swung it for me though in favour of the S5ii.
Maybe because more reviewers have already bought into the E mount system. I’m very excited about the S9 because of its incredible value, and all my lenses are already L-mount.
EXCELLENT video Josh! The Sony bias is real. I hope to see weather sealing in the mark ii version of this camera, and maybe silver color making its way here to the US.
@@JoshCameron they are unfortunately. eBay has had a few I just couldn’t get warranty. I’m thinking 20-60 Panasonic lens paired with it, good pick for the s9?
I agree, I have actually owned three Sony cameras, including the ZVE one which is really the comparable rival. The number one selling point despite the Sony having the amazing hot shoe with all the Sony accessories, which is super convenient. The main selling point for me is the stabilization on the Lumix cameras because I don’t wanna carry a gimbal, and it works great and it looks good. The other things are also good. I’ve had a great experience with it, and all of the limitations are not things that I really worry about. Perhaps the only thing that sometimes frustrates me is the lack of lens selection, although the Lumix lenses are fantastic with Sonya nice that there’s a lot more options. Other than that, I’ve really enjoyed the Lumix experience, the menus, the app and all the things that you mentioned.
Agreed. I think the whole S9 launch (as well as other purchases) helped me see how much I shouldn't listen to camera "reviewers" on youtube. Though I would say that the S9 marketing is kind of off. Meaning I think they overemphasized the LUT feature and didn't focus on the more interesting features.
I agree with most of what you presented, I think where Sony still has the upper hand is the E mount, there's just such a better selection of compact lenses from third parties than there is on the L mount side, and for camera like these, having a huge lens kinda makes no sense. Something I'm also curious about is whether these cheaper Sony cameras have OLPFs, and what the moire looks like on them vs the Lumix cameras, cause my S5IIX is pretty bad in that department. Also just to point out, the S5ii isn't really better in rolling shutter performance unless you put it into aps-c mode, full frame its at 22ms whereas the a6700 is at 15.9ms. I love Lumix and have for over a decade now, but I still see the merit for Sony cameras
Excellent video, I shoot with the original S5 and find it great. I love Panasonic cameras in general, the button/controls are laid out to be easy to use and price is another great factor in it, A lot of people pass by the Lumix cameras to buy the Sony's or Nikon etc but I find after trying many different brands that the Lumix S5 just feels right to me, I've even shot some of my content on my S5 and had no issues with the contrast AF. Love your channel, keep up the good work.
if you can find me a link for me to buy the lumix s9 at €1000 id buy it immediately. Yet here in Belgium it is € 1699 while the ZV E10 MII is only €1089
Great video and I'm inclined to agree. Sony's grapple on the influencer crowd is easy to see, but it's great to see plenty of Lumix peeps cropping up and showing what the tools can do (without needing to be on the payroll to do it). £1099 is super tempting! Only issue is I'm somewhat concerned that Cotswold are grey market imports based on all their prices!
Great review ! I don't even know why there are so many comparisons with zv e10, because they are very different cameras. Compare eith zve1 or 7cii and then you realize the value of s9
Great video. I like how your just speaking the truth and not trying to win people over. I have always said those who buy Sony or Conon do so for the brand name those who buy Lumix do so for the camera. The recorded limit for the S9 really shouldn't be an issue. Its 15 minutes per recording. The camera is for vloggers so do they need more then 15 minutes to say what they need to say? The S9 has already force Sony to bring a camera out that matches it in some ways. Same as how Sony brought mirrorless cameras out after the GH5.
i have the s5iix and i am very pleased and also for b camera rhe original s5 which i am going to sell and go for sony zv e10ii or s9 ,what would you do? ,and i hope your camera did not burnt in Greece due to hot weather 😝Still hot here ..
People buy cameras not only for vlogging. IBIS (In-Body Image Stabilization) is good, but it’s not the only feature we should consider when buying a camera. Personally, I just want a camera with good image quality, priced below $1000, to put on a tripod and film myself, just like you do in your studio. It could also be used for top-down shots as a second angle. The recording limit is a deal breaker for me. By the way, you value IBIS a lot, but your camera is on a tripod. You should try walking and running while reviewing gear; that would be fun to watch.
I have played with the S9 for a bit but I did find the controls pretty clunky compared to the S5 series. The thing is I think the S9 was marketed as a kinda stripped down hybrid camera for creators but the ZVE10 II has always been sold as vlogging camera so expectations were different. I would agree with you that the S9 is arguably a more feature-rich vlogging and video camera than the ZVE10 II but does really fall flat as a creator's hybrid camera. And the ZVE10 II due to the lower price would make it a lot more attractive to people who just want a simple vlogging camera but cares very little about the other features.
10:00 well the Sony has LUTs but yes more primitive. Still it can bake the LUT in the video like the Lumix but can't do it for stills... In fact I started using the Lumix app for grading Sony footage on my phone :D
Thankfully, LUMIX did remove the record limit with a firmware update in October. I already have the S5ii, but, I would be grateful for the S9 if I wanted it. I moved from a Sony FX30 to the S5ii when I found a used one (like new) for $1,375. At the time, the S9 was still around $1,300 used. Personally, I've always preferred LUMIX colors over most brands. So, I'm very happy with the S5ii and its fantastic image quality. P.S. I was disturbed by the attack on the S9 upon its release. It was a strange occurrence to say the least. I still don't think it was warranted on any level. I think part of it came from how some interpreted LUMIX's marketing approach to the S9. Which had nothing to do with the camera itself. And I still think the S9 is much more capable than a "travel camera" as many content creators have labeled it.
RUclips is a big marketing platform and Sony got out in front of the others with it. Sony Creator Camp is a hit with influencers and while they will tell you that does not influence (no pun intended) their reviews, it does. We’re human. Someone treats us well, we will likely respond in kind. Influencers love Sony and influence us to buy Sony. By the way, I agree with you.
That's probably correct to be honest, I'm going to look into that because it's a great point. The hot shoe most definitely on that camera just so they can upsell their hot-shoe mic accessories
You can use flash without mechanical shutter if the sensor readout speed is fast enough (for example Nikon Z8). If I remember correctly, ZVE1 and ZVE10 II can sync up to 1/30". The S9 sensor is much slower, which makes flashing without mechanical shutter virtually pointless.
I think a lot of the hate for the S9 comes from other Panasonic users that aren't used to compromises like that. While Sony users rarely look outside of the Sony offerings so they're mostly unaware of the S9. There probably is a bias there somewhere too, especially in areas online where the two communities do overlap. Agree with all your points (especially open-gate and IBIS). Given the casual use/run and gun focus, IBIS on the S9 is the major winner - not needing a rig or gimbal suits the target market really well and it's the main thing that made me switch from Sony. Post gyro stabilisation for Sony can't compare because it relies on high shutter speed that's at odds with the 180 degree shutter with motion blur. Not to mention all the additional processing time involved with Catalyst Browse, vs the S5 ii + S9 just looking smooth out of camera. Main bonus for the ZV-E10 II is the better in-built microphone, that's a great run and gun feature (with a windcover) rather than having to mount and plug-in a different mic on the S9. Would love to see this on the S9 ii, as well as another rear dial, and a very small grip (similar to the smallrig addon but without the additional bottom plate) Alternatively, I'd love an A7C III with Panasonic level IBIS and open-gate too, I have no loyalty one way or another. It's just whatever is the best for my needs, and IBIS is huge for someone that wants a minimal setup. Especially when considering these small cameras - the moment you add a rig or gimbal it negates any of the size/weight savings.
You should always use what works for you, so I totally agree with your insights. I didn't look too deeply into the built-in microphone on the ZV-E10II, but it did sound better than the S9's internal mic. I'd always be inclined to use a wireless mic kit though, purely because built-in-mics will never compare. Thanks for watching, I appreciate your thoughts!
@@JoshCameronDo you shoot 15 monute clips? I don't get it - none of your videos have such clips, no cinematographer shoots such long clips. What creators make videos with 15 minute continuous clips?
The problem with the S9 was that at the time of release, it was priced identically to the discounted s5ii in a bundle with a 50mm lens, and with the hand grip and the relatively large L-mount lenses, the weight difference wasn’t substantial. So you pay the same, and you get what is still a fairly large camera but with cut back features. They released the s9 alongside a manual focus fixed f8 lens and tried to show a visual similarity to the x100v. That was ridiculous. What is the point of a phase detect full frame camera when you use a lens with no autofocus and a tiny aperture? It was clear to anybody that the s5ii was the obvious winner given these conditions, and if you wanted a small setup, Panasonic L-mount didn’t offer a compelling option.
I think the issue was the PDAF. Now that lumix has it changes everything. I used Nikon / Sony and Lumix. The main problem now is all photographers below 40, already used to use Sony and invested in glass. The only way to Lumix get the market is creating an adapter from E-Mount to L-Mount autofocus. I do portraits using S1R (I have 2) and Leica glass. The reason that I am not buying the S9 is the cold shoe... It is 2024... it is just unacceptable since the electronics is soooooo cheap today. I'll be waiting for the S9 with a hot shoe. Panasonic, I hope it was worth to save 7 USD in electronics removing the curtain and hot shoe... Give me 1/125.. I don't care... but the lack of hot shoe is the only real problem for me. Love your video... Please keep going... I think Panasonic needs to work better on their marketing explaining how good is the PDAF. Nikon is doing an amazing job with the ZF !
when i first heard about the recording limits, i was fine with them untill i saw the limit on FHD. Reminded me of the LX100 (OG) it had a recording limit of 10 min (i believe...) on 4K. in FullHD there was just the stupid 30 min Camcorder/PhotoCamera tax restrictions if i'm not mistaking... lifting the limits would be the more "libertarian approach" and i would prefer it. the positiv on limits might be, that there is no roasted Sensor in the second hand market with Lumix - or let's say less degraded so i would love to see the following: a firmware update that limits the real hard stuff (if lifting the limits is no option) but give us at least one less taxing record mode without limits. on the other hand give us 20 second bursts of FHD 480p (if the sensor is capable) or some other slowmo-crazyness release such fw with the pancake zoom teased and i have to buy one
Love lumix stuff. Had a g9 and now and S5II and a sony 6500. Affordable lenses are just more available on the sony cameras. Not to mention smaller lenses for full frame options for sony which the s9 desperately needs. Everything else though is stellar with lumix cameras.
I think there's an overall Sony/Canon bias. Especially on youtube. Sony probably has the fastest, largest marketing going out with creators. The s5ii and S9 did get a lot of people to notice Lumix, but it still doesn't have the same hype as a Sony or Canon. Even with similar image quality, and the best ibis by far, and (if you ask me) Log profile.
V-Log is still my favourite log, although I must say that S-Log 3/S-Gamut3cine surprised me. It's much better than it used to be! Dollar for dollar, Sony will be a more expensive brand to get into compared to Lumix. I hope people start realising this sooner than later because the upsides of Lumix outweigh any other upsides from Sony :)
@@JoshCameron Definitely the favorite! The biggest drawbacks of the S5ii vs the FX3 are reallly just the autofocus, but Lumix DRAMATICALLY improved this from the original S5 (Still a great B-cam!) and the amount of accessories that are made for Sony.
I own the a6700 and im trading it for lumix s9 i prefer stable video over AI tracking as my use case is just get stylised footage thats stable and quality
@@JoshCameron Weird, as that camera is its really only competition. No its cheaper than the A7CII. S9 looks great but what shotgun would you suggest without it looking bulky?
I reckon the issue with the S9 was that the field was open and we enthusiasts thought the S9 would hit the ball out of the park by being an S5II in a small body. But it isn’t. So there was disappointing about ‘what might have been’. I still hope there is another higher spec model which addresses the limitations on the S9 you highlighted (although I have no need for mechanical shutter, but I want weather sealing). It would then be perfect once they release that small zoom to match.
Don’t be scared of adapted lenses. I shoot mostly manual and if you can deal with manual focus a whole world opens up. Leica M mount on the S9 work so well and look amazing. I personally have a Konica Hexanon 45mm f/1.8 that’s so small and compact even with the adapter.
It’s just a massive amount of processing for a smaller/older sensor. It’s still 10 bit which is amazing for such a tiny camera and since it’s geared for social media, probably even overkill. 4.2.2 10 bit for C4k though and all other modes below 6k
@@phoenixprjct yup, definitely processing bottlenecks. BTW: "It’s still 10 bit ... since it’s geared for social media, probably even overkill." - 422 would still be more than welcome as 6K OG videos are (when properly shot) excellent sources of video framegrabs
@@mostlyfinnishlifeeventsand5112For sure. Just saying that people watching reels on their phones currently aren’t probably notice the 420 vs 422 color difference on vertical shots. And for sub $1,300 it makes sense.
Great video mate the video I was waiting for 🙌🏾 My only problem with the S9 that I talked about was only the recording limits, because it blocked me from what I was hopping I could do with this camera. But for sure it is an amazing camera, and the price is a bit high in my opinion, when you can find currently the S5II at €1600 where I am. But said that, lumix could only just take the recording limit out, as Sony did with the ZV E1, and let people experience the overheating, at least we know it is there and that we can deal with it as best we can, but putting a record limit, is not the way to go. I’m sorry, lumix shooter too, but that’s a huge bummer. To answer your question: what Sony did better is to not put the record limits, and that is what everyone or most people are talking about. What that shows is that people are willing to go for a downgraded spec camera than having limitations imposed by manufacturers. That’s what I think. But still love lumix and probably will end up purchasing one, because it matches perfectly with the Limix S5IIX, and I really hope they take the limitation away. Thanks for the video mate 😊
I'm hoping some people at Lumix do see this video and make a change with firmware to the recording limit. While it doesn't affect me at all, I know a lot of potential adopters are put off by it. I reckon the S9 could easily go for 45 mins to an hour before it got dangerously hot, so maybe an override option like we've seen with Sony cams would be something that could happen. I don't know though; I'm not an engineer, just an avid user!
The G85 is bigger, heavier, has 33% less resolution, is MFT, a much lower dynamic range, less recording options, a lower resolution LCD screen, no USB Power Delivery and you got a grip about two features that are mostly used in more professional oriented scenarios? Please also don't forget this is basically a high-end point and shoot, for crying out loud!
Do you really monitor audio on a small camera like this with headphones? Actually curious. For this demographic I bet 99% of the people are using a rode or dji mic transmitter and not walking around with headphones on. I always have better audio gear and monitor through that. Or I use the outputs on Atomos/Video Monitor.
@@phoenixprjctI do They didn’t need a headphone jack, they could have just let you use a headphone dongle in the USB-C port. No possibility for monitoring at all is just dumb.
@@phoenixprjct it’s not like I do it every time I shoot something. But if I want to get a quick interview and it’s all I have on me, it’s always nice to be able to. And like I said, they simply should have let you connect via the USB-C port. That port is just sitting there doing nothing more than half the time.
Thank you! And probably not. I think Sony have blurred their product lineup too much, so much so that certain cameras have almost become pointless (the differences seem to be more hardware than firmware between the 6700 and the ZV-E10II)
@@JoshCameron Ok, I'm debating between the a6700 or the Lumix S9, which one to buy. I care about small size and weight, so aps-c will probably win. 🙂 Thank you.
I totally understand people who prefer sony because of the lens selection and price, but when you are talking about youtube Sony cameras are like iphones, people care about the brand and status
Absolutely agree, Sony cameras are very good, Solid cameras but Lumix is better in so many ways, and I have both Sony and Lumix, I currently own the A7IV and had the FX30 and from Lumix I have the S5II and GH6 which are my main video working cameras, and Sonys marketing is SOOO good that you ignore the quirks and lack of features compared to Lumix, again … Sony has great cameras sure, but over all, Lumix is better.
It's nice to get this feedback from someone who's still currently shooting with both brands! Just shows that the story portrayed on RUclips isn't definitive, and you should try using other brands before taking other people's word for it
I seriously believe that a lot of hate for the S9 comes from the fact that Gerald Undone made a rant video over the fact that he wasn't invited to the launch in Japan. He seemed pretty upset about that: or, more precisely, he seemed upset by the realization that there are so many creators out there reviewing cameras that he has become "dispensible." And also in that video, he decided to vent about the whole practice of inviting creators to launch parties in exotic locations. Something he was happy to participate in prior to this, but finally felt he had to say something about it after not being invited to the launch party for the S9. Overall, whether intentially or not, Gerald Undone gave the impression that Panasonic was up to "something" with the release of the S9 and was possibly trying to hide something by not inviting him and the likes of Patrick Tomasso.
I have a lot of opinions on that video, too many to get into here in the comment section - but I agree with you in the sense that he definitely stirred the pot surrounding the S9 launch. I have respect for him and for Patrick (who I met at the S5II event, he's a lovely guy)!
I see 3 main problems with the S9. 1. Hard recording limits: Please remove these in a FW update, as the camera can shut off when it overheats like literally any other camera. 2. Lack of compact L mount lenses: The 26mm f8 exacerbated this rather than quenching it. It should have launched with the 18-40 (which I think is a near perfect range BTW) 3. Price: In isolation, it's actually decent value in comparison to the Sony vlogging cameras but the S5II being only $200 more means you really need to value compactness to go for the S9. Also, weather sealing should be a must at that price point. For $1200, this would be a much better value proposition.
1. Nobody shoots 15 minute clips. The camera does not overheat and shutdown, it is a hard limit. After 15 minutes you can start shooting right way. Do you shoot clips of more than 15 minutes? Why? 2. There are compact Sigma lenses. For example, the Sigma 45mm f2.8 and a few more that size. Do your homework.
@@markr041 I agree on both, but, after restarting the third 15-minute capture with the S9, it really overheats as nicely demonstrated here. But you are right, who wants to record 45 minutes non stop?
Saying the camera is expensive because another camera is cheap doesn’t really make any sense. I understand the psychology but it’s not really how the world works. My studio apartment should be cheaper because the 2 bedroom apartments down the hall are a better deal? Also look at Sony and Fuji prices. ZV-E1 is a better comparison to the S9 and is $1,800. Can’t do anamorphic modes, open gate, 6k, worse IBIS, also overheats…
Real time luts alone makes this camera and the S5ii far ahead of anything else. It’s perfect for quick turn around work and also when I’m causally shooting for fun.
@@ninetymm That’s not the point he’s making. He’s suggesting that because of the high temperature mode in the Sony cameras, their sensors develop burn spots. Nothing to do with who actually manufactures the sensor.
I have Somy ZV E10 mark I and I can't see me upgrading to the Mark II, the amount they ask here, I have mine with 3 lenses, two of them prime. Now I am looking at a used Nikon D7000 for see if it possible to use it with my old nikon lenses 😁
Its not all about the specs.. when you use the cameras, you will realize Lumix is like entitled gf, that you gotta take care of her everyday.. But sony will be like those down to the earth gf that takes care of you everyday. But in the end these are tools, its better off for you if you have a tool that is reliable and easy to use. Sony is like that.. and the end result isnt bad neither.. I gave many chances to lumix thinking they are the better camera for the money, But every time i had to go back to sony. Because they are stressless and the end results are just as good or sometimes better. Even with the autofocus.. you can see in this video. Sony has way nature autofocus and lumix s9 has those harsh transitions. Things like that matters to the creators. In conclusion, i think if you are seasoned enough to take care lumix cameras and can take advantage of all its features effortlessly then go for it. But if you just want to set it and forget it, and focus on your contents creating..Sony is way better imo
You're spitting facts but not it's worth convincing those who just buy brands. The actual reason of the bias might have to do with affiliate marketing strategies, most youtubers know they'll earn way more money pushing for Sony, their cameras basically sell themselves...but that's just what I think. P.S. I love my S9!
Glad you love your S9 dude! The politics of RUclips is very interesting, and I'd be lying if I said I wasn't somewhat involved since I also make product based videos. My biggest concern is that certain products get preferential treatment, and that always seems to happen with Sony's releases. I challenge you to find one negative take on any of the most recent Sony cameras, yet there's always a mixed reception with other brands, and that doesn't seem right to me. Sure, there's great benefits to shooting with Sony, but not everything is peachy and there's bound to be cons with every brand :) I'll admit that Lumix have their issues, and the S9 has its own set of setbacks that are non-negotiable for some... but to write it off like everyone did at the start is just ridiculous, especially when the ZV-E10II is inferior in so many ways
@@JoshCameron Thanks! I had already noticed it-the amount of mental gymnastics some channels went through was quite baffling. Who can forget all the headlines ("THE S9 IS CONFUSING"), but when the ZVE-II was released, suddenly everything stopped being confusing! 😗 I got into a lot of pointless arguments and realized that either A. People lack real-world experience/knowledge or B. There are ulterior or disingenuous motives at play. I hate name-dropping channels, but the one that starts with "Peta" and ends with "Pixel" made one of the most ludicrous videos comparing both cameras... it was aggravatingly biased and hypocritical. Fortunately, a lot of people in the comments called it out, but it's just way too obvious. This is coming from an ex-Sony user who switched the a6700 for the S9 and won't look back. I just need an extra 5 minutes on every mode...
The Sony hype is definitely turning into the Apple vs. Android debate. Lumix needs more love shown to it because the S9 is a better package compared to the Sony E10ll. I'm currently in the market for a new camera and this was very helpful Josh!
i agree with you. the Sony bias is crazy online. i said this when the S9 was announced, the biggest problem is it's price. if this camera was around $1000-$1200, i don't think anyone would've cried as much as they did. i know why they couldn't make it that cheap, but that's my take.
If you look at the specs, it's unmatched in its price point. The issue is that Lumix have been so competitive with their pricing on the S5II, and I think that also makes people question the value proposition of the S9 more so than they would normally
Sony has fanboys, not users. I don't like the S9 but I adore my S5II, and sony has nothing on the price range that can even compete with it, still there's lots of youtubers giving their soul and first child to sony.
Can I ask, have you actually tried the S9? It's easy to write-off at first, but it's become my most used camera of the year. The S5II and S5IIX are still my workhorse bodies, but for the non-client stuff (RUclips, Photography, Social Posting etc), the S9 is incredible :)
Sony has a metric crap ton of users. Are you nuts? I was in Vegas over the weekend for the biggest jiujitsu tournament in the world. Probably close to 100 media I didn’t see a single non Sony camera being used for that media. That was the production crew and the individual photographers and videographers being hired by the athletes. I love my S5II LOVE IT, but panasonic was nowhere to be seen and for the most part isn’t yet and there’s probably a reason for that.
@@BrandonTalbot and at NFL, NBA, Major League Baseball, FIFA, etc. world class sports most every photographer is using Canon, so what is your point Slick? Some minor sport which no one cares about had Sony photographers at it?
Hi, they are both excellent cameras. I think it depends a lot on the way you work and you personal tastes. Reason for Panasonic Instinctively i would say Sensor Colors Stabilizazion Sony: Autofocus Many lenses Microphons Congratulations for your videos, they are always very beautiful.
Well i used sony zve10 and the standard profile with some tweaks were better than Lumix S5II I know its hard to believe but its true. I am sure if you tweak hard then you can get good footage with Lumix. But sony cameras were just easier to use and reliable. Recording or streaming, lumix gave me alot of headaches.. But with sony i was able not worrying about the cameras and its settings because i know its reliable.
everyone has a bias...even you have a bias....When taking about price you said the sony costs shy of 1000 when it is just a bit above 900 but you said the exact price of 1499 for the lumix, you could have have said 1500 but you didn't. By a slight twist of wording you added 100 pounds to the price of sony and reduced 100 from the price of s9...I am sure that was not intentional. I point out this to show that we all have bias whether we like to admit or not. At the end of the end buy what you want and like...
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
Ever since switching to Lumix, I finally see the biases that companies give to brands and what they're known for. Thanks for making this comparison video as it shows that pretty much any camera, no matter the brand, can do well and your brand doesn't equal your skill!
Well said mate - it's not about what you shoot with, it's about how you use it. Granted, the S9 has its limitations, but to stand there and say that the ZV-E10II is a better camera is just ridiculous (and a lot of creators decided to give glowing reviews on that camera while bashing the S9 and dismissing it without giving it a chance).
people will say you are a lumix fanboy defending but i can tell you you are absolutely right. Also the lumix s9 has 6k which no camera near the range has and has 4 2 2 10 bit in all modes
And open gate! Don't forget that! We're spoiled as Lumix shooters and I think more people need to understand how useful it is.
@@JoshCameron i am on the verge of ordering the s5ii. I got a deal on for a new one with the 50mm 1.8 for 1600 us
Usually love the vids, but he's sponsored by Panasonic, so he'll say nice things about them. So it's biased aswell...
@kiez_insider even though , when he makes sense
@@kiez_insider I’m not sponsored by Panasonic. I don’t get paid anything to talk about their equipment, and I never have been. I’m just someone that really enjoys their products. Granted, I have a connection with the company in the sense that they allow me to get hands on with the latest releases from time to time, but that’s honestly as far as it goes :)
Great assessment Josh - and I think I agree on all points. The main issue I have with this video is that you highlighted the S9 going for £1,099 and now I'm finding it hard to resist buying one. DAMMIT!
If you buy one I'll take you for celebratory beers!
Absolutely nailed it! I was baffled seeing exactly what you are describing, “creators”!glossing over the fact that this has no EVF and no MS, the problem is that most those same creators harshly marked this as big “FLAW” in the S9… what?
thank you for that video Josh. As a Sony & Lumix shooter I have to say I love both brands for different reasons. But I have to admit that meanwhile most of the time I am reaching for my Lumixes nowadays.
IMHO a camera positioned for content creators and missing the most important feature like Image Stabilisation is the biggest deal breaker. While Sony makes awesome cameras but they are infamous for resorting to selling cameras inferior in features and riding purely on bias and marketing gimmicks. Glad you said this.
Agreed, it's like they don't even test the cameras in the intended circumstances, evidenced by the removal of optical stabilisation on the ZV-1 II vs the original that had it. They're just hoping that Catalyst Browse can make up for it and Sony fans always mention this as if it fixes everything. I don't think it does, considering the additional processing time + the fact it doesn't work with motion blur/180 degree shutter.
I'm glad you agree. It's so strange that this isn't picked up on more often
Yeah that's absolutely correct. People are always biased towards Sony, even though they don't understand it.
I shocked to see why people desperately hate Lumix without any reason.
I hope Mr.Undone will see this.
I’ve had the S9 for a few months, absolutely love it. I use it almost daily. The thing that I think has been missed most from the reviews is actually the experience and workflow with the app. Most reviewers briefly mentioned it, but I don’t remember it really being properly shown. The auto-transfer is really solid, it’s great having all the images I take quickly transferred to my phone.
That was (practically) impossible with the lumix sync app on my S5ii because of the slow transfer times and general instability. The lumix lab app an S9 is a whole other thing.
Then of course the LUTs and the app turns a cool feature on the S5ii, into a killer feature on S9. I’ve loaded up dozens of my film simulation LUTs into it, and a bunch of other creative styles. On the S5ii you have to faff about making them on pc and loading via sd card, but the app with S9 makes it so much more accessible. I feel like the app experience with the camera really needs to be talked about a lot more.
What lens do you find yourself using the most?
@@briedcan Sigma 45mm f2.8 is by far my most used lens on it.
@@walrusgumboot exactly what I was hoping you'd say!
@@briedcan it’s a great lens for this camera. The aperture ring also helps by adding another control ring to the setup
I think it's just a camera brand bias not necessarily a Sony bias but I'm totally with you. Even though the S9 got hate, I think in a way it was a good thing. Most people don't care about the drama and will buy the cameras they want to buy and not even notice the noise especially beginners. If anything it made more people aware of LUMIX. But to me it showed a lot of creators true colors. What mostly bothered me is it made a lot of us creators/youtubers who genuinely like LUMIX seem like sellouts, which is totally untrue. I just genuinely like LUMIX more. Keep doin you👊
I mean, since always there is a general bashing against Lumix, before it was because of the AF, now they have difficult time to find a reason.
I am a Sony fan in general and an S9 fan specifically, I picked S9 because it has no protruding grip on the right hand side, it is clean flush as on a Leica camera of all classic cameras including Nikon F and F2. I went to photography school and we were tought how to hold a no-grip camera. The aesthetics of the S9 was a decisive factor, my S9 is red, I love it. Since I have the S9, I havent't touched by beloved A7III. I have two Sigma compact prime lenses for the S9, simply a perfect combo, always-with-me small kit. As for the 15 minute recording limit: I completely changed my recording strategy, and today I prepare much better my captures, to minimise the waste-runs of long minutes that would be cut out anyway. At the beginning the S9 overheated upon me, and that was a warning to me that something I don't do efficiently. I don't record entiry sports events for documentary with S9, sure, but I was able to record significant portions of an entire concert two weeks ago.
Anyhow, your comparison is not really fair: the FF S9 kills any APS-C cameras, sure. Compare the S9 to the ZV-E1 they are in the same weight. The zoom lever on the Sony's is cool, nevertheless, I still have the A5100, and it is absolutely amazing, it overheats like hell, but you can and should learn how to optimize your process for that limitation, that was the reason I used it with a Ninja2, no overheating any more.
1:55 well the A7cII has mechanical shutter, it is just crippled. It has only one curtain. But there is one and it is fine up to 1/1000s, than some problems start to show up.
@@miklosnemeth8566the bokeh ball will be cut in half if shutter speed higher than 1/2000, and the size of bokeh ball will reduce a little bit, for example from the size at f1.4 to size at f1.6(but same amount of light was let in)
@@miklosnemeth8566 the bokeh gets cut to half, instead of circle you get half circle and the exposure is not even on the frame, you can't use HSS with flash.
Interesting comparison Josh, and I always appreciate your calm and considered approach. For many video creators, including myself, the time limit is the biggest issue on the S9. Not for b-roll obviously, but for the main piece to camera. Mine often go on for about 45mins before editing. Even if you rarely do long takes like that, the limitation is in the back of your mind. So yes, I agree, it would be much more attractive if they removed the limit, or at least made it optional on a menu.
Always great to hear from you, Gordon! I'm really hoping that Lumix will offer some form of improvement to the time limit restrictions at some point, and I can't see why that couldn't be introduced with firmware. While the recording limit doesn't affect me or my use case, I can totally understand why it leaves some feeling a little anxious. Hopefully if they do make a change with FW then it may help to get the S9 into more people's camera bag :)
Funny I have never seen a scene in a Hollywood or major TV production that ran for more than 15 seconds. Maybe you "creatives" need to learn how to actually film cinema and not just burn thru memory cards and spend days editing a bunch of worthless footage.
@@silbay first, why are you even watching these videos if they make you so angry? You need to change what you watch. Second, none of us are making cinema or major TV productions here. We're filming a long piece to camera, like an interview. If you have ever watched an interview on TV, they have their cameras rolling non-stop for well over 30 minutes, hours sometimes. We see edited footage, but the raw footage is non-stop. it has to be or you might miss something, plus you don't stop an interview to say you need to change cards or to start a new recording. Anyway, now go and watch something that makes you happy.
Very fair and well said Josh 🙌
Thanks Em :D
I think the S9 got bashed on partially because it did not launch with an obvious lens to pair it with. The L-mount ecosystem is missing a good F/2.8 near-pancake lens that you can find on other mounts (i.e. Canon, Nikon and Sony).
My biggest issue with the S9 is that it is terrible value relative to other Lumix offerings. I just purchased the S5IIX with a 50mm 1.8 for $1845. That's significantly better value for the money than the $1500 the S9 body costs.
Appreciate the video and the Lumix content Josh. The lens videos, in particularly, have been helpful making my initial gear selections for my camera.
Josh that ending to your video was just fire.
The same thing happened with the Blackmagic Pyxis. Many influencers complained that the screen could not flip out (although all professionals tend to use external screens anyways) but yet they say the Sony FX6's lack of an internal screen was not an issue. I just couldn't understand it...
I think you really did a fair comparison here. I didn’t realize how similar these cameras were in terms of the gripes many had with the S9. I’ve shot plenty on both Sony, Canon, and Lumix and prefer the look of the Lumix, and now that they’ve put it in such an approachable camera I hope people really do get the S9 in their hands to see how good it is. It’s a way better but then the more cost effective Sony equivalent. Thanks for making this video! Also, is that a new watch? That gold was blinding bro 😎
Thanks mate, I've tried to be as fair as I can, but I do think there's an overwhelming bias on RUclips, and I wish people did their own research before writing certain products off.
Hahaha! The watch was a gift from Han for my birthday last year!
The a7CII does have a mechanical shutter. Mechanical shutter and "first curtain" or "front curtain" shutter are not the same thing
I know "don't count your chickens before they hatch", the history of providing free features and firmware upgrades of Panasonic gears is first class. Sony "tends" to sell you small incremental upgraded new "hardware" instead.
@@francistcp preach! So true, a lot of people don’t consider the future firmware development path and instead focus on what it does on release. Lumix have a fantastic track record of making big improvements through firmware updates. During my time shooting with Sony, I can’t even remember getting any firmware updates that weren’t bug fixes…
Great video Josh, I've been wanting to tackle this myself but it's so difficult to to find the correct tact. It is clear that there is a bias towards Sony gear and recent events regarding certain creators and their opportune timing with Lumix critiques reflect those biases. As a small creator I'll get labelled as a fanboy by the fans of these creators and invalidated by the creators themselves. The truth is we all have biases and that's fine, but we should be honest about those biases and expect a degree of objectivity from people reviewing equipment.
I do love lumix cameras I never understand why more people don't use them
Poor brand awareness. RUclips is inundated with Sony and Canon users for video, and then Fuji users for photo. Lumix really feels like a niche, and ultimately people trust what they see more of. This is changing though, and I hope that sooner or later, the wider audience realises what value can be had if you invest in Panasonic :)
@@JoshCameron Yes, perception is changing. That said, Lumix is losing steam. We NEED that S1H mark II. It's cool if it's still 6K IMO. However, we need internal raw (BRAW would be a dream), internal nds, and a stacked sensor. Those things along with some faster recording options would be enough. I'm honestly holding back on the C400 to see what Lumix is going to do with the S1H II. They need to come on.
Remember that before S9 video AF on Panasonic cameras were a horror with their constant wobbling and microhunting and pumping the background.
@miklosnemeth8566 nah it wasn't terrible it was just usable perfectly fine
@mikeandrews9944 no stacked sensor give worse dynamic range and you can't have nds in a normal cameras
lets be honest who is using a flash on a camera designed for travel, vloggers, and not professional work 😂 I mean a headphone jack would have been nice, but honestly as long as they make the record limits to the S9 unlimited or at least 30 minutes, or give us the control to change it. Then the S9 is the hands down winner! Great video mate!
Let's be honest - who is shooting 30- minute clips? Not filmmakers, not vloggers, not the person here, almost nobody. And for long clips you need to lock the camera down, so no point having a compact camera. Few if any videographers care about 15 or even 10- minute limits on "takes."
@@markr041I shoot 30 minutes plus all the time because I shoot live performances. It’s a bit of an annoyance when I do them by myself and have to run between two cameras in two different locations, even if I stagger the timing.
It’s just dumb that they didn’t give you an option to use a headphone dongle in the USB-C port
@hemzheru Let me answer you first about your use of cameras with an analogy: Panasonic releases a 24mm lens. Someone posts that they exclusively shoot birds in flight and that this lens is useless. What a disappointment. Now, for you: why are you even looking at a compact camera with world leading stabilization and great AF given what you do with cameras? You don't need IBIS; you probably should use manual focus, and you don't need a small size or light weight. If you do need FF and small size, look at the Sigma fp. It has no IBIS and it's AF sucks. But no time limit.
@@markr041 I was looking for the S5 because it’s a Jack of all trades camera.
I don’t JUST shoot performances. I don’t JUST do weddings, or event coverage, or documentary work, or etc. I do all of that, and these cameras are pretty great at doing all of that, in a lightweight run and gun body that has awesome SOOC colors.
One limitation that annoys me in the pursuit of all that work though? Recording limits.
I'm in LOVE with my S9. Before Lumix announced it, I had the ZV-E bookmarked as the one I'm gonna buy. Specifically looking for that small form factor with no professional extra things that take the price way too high (hot shoe, two SD cards yada yada). I'm so glad I waited, as buying a camera was not a priority and I already had a Sony I wasn't happy with, and yet still chose my next compact setup to be Sony based on internet recommendations. You are so spot on that internet was supporting the ZV-E, praising it, because I didn't even want Sony but this recommendation was everywhere I couldn't escape it.
The first video of S9 I saw was Tony Northrup announcing it so randomly, and when he talked about the specs, I just knew that this camera is exactly what I've been waiting for. I felt no bias in his video, it was purely reporting the features of a newly announced camera. I got so excited for the combination of features on it, and the features Lumix gave up to reduce the price - it's just perfect in my opinion. It really feels revolutionary to me. I'm still surprised by the lack of support from the grander camera community, but I don't care, I'm just enjoying my new S9, looking at gorgeous pictures from my last trip. I was in LA on a sunny day in August - not once did the lack of view finder hinder me from framing my shot. I think it's because I'm the target demographic who was used to using my phone, so it literally is no different, just a much better quality image as a result. I LOVE Lumix for coming out with this product, and I would not change a single thing about it.
I've yet to figure how everyone makes that V-log footage though, but I'm sure I'll be learning to use this camera for the next year as there is a lot to be discovered when you upgrade from a phone.
As a S5ii user, I tried a S9 but decided I’d be better with a 3rd S5ii unit and as it was €200 cheaper (used), helped make the decision even more clear.
But at closer to 1000, that probably would have swung the S9 as my third unit.
Build, 2 card slots, fan were what swung it for me though in favour of the S5ii.
Also a Sony user (for stills) but find there are very few bodies that meet my specific requirements, one of those being the A7RV which is just superb. Not a contender here though, but quite like the idea of a ZV-E1 as an alternative to an S9….
Well done. Finally someone thinking and saying exactly what I’ve always been thinking 👌🏼
To answer your question: It’s all due to the Sony fans ..the Sony hype. Don’t get me wrong, Sony is very good but popular because of the hype and the fact that there are lots of Sony fans. And it seems like they have to bash other brands, especially when it’s getting dangerous.
I’d say, people just look at the comparison here and be honest.
Again we’ll done. You didn’t even mentioned the pro of having the MP4 Lite 4K OG which is very very nice for social.
I got the A6700 last year and the S9 this year. All the negativity didn't dissuade me from getting the S9. Love the looks in camera and the LUMIX Lab app. Hell the app makes the LUMIX a better camera. Lots' of fun compared to Sony Creators app that is basically useless even when it will connect. 🤣
Great video! Thanks! I am actually a Nikon shooter. But when looking for a compact camera for both photo and video I landed on Sony ZV-E10, the old 8 bit one. Sony is my least favorite camera brand, so it was not an easy choice. Two main reasons I got the ZV-E10. 1: Shotgun microphones that connect to the hot shoe, no battery or wire needed 2: Catalyst Browse software that does a great job of stabilizing in post. The S9 came out after I made my decision to go with a Sony APS-C and I was really itching to upgrade, but the lack of a hot shoe and having to find another way to stabilize in post stopped me. Now, bear in mind that I am a total amateur when it comes to video. I expect I will make another choice when I become better at filming, editing and post production.
Great video with some good points. The S9's biggest problem is how great value the S5ii is at the moment.
In Oktober we are going to Osaka and I am definitely going to pick up a S9
The perfect camera which I can use for traveling AND professional use.
It wil be my 2nd body and a good investment in my small videography company. ❤lumix
A camera is just a box that help me show my dreams. Where you start may determine what your next box will be. For me that box, my first camera was the ZV-E10 the first one. I enjoyed it and bought a few lenses for it. It taught me how to tough it out to make good photos and films with what I had. I bought a new box, the a6700 and I got to reuse all the lenses I had instead of having to sell everything and start over. For the E10 and a6700 there are a lot of lenses cheap and otherwise to help me make my dreams. If your camera does that for you I am very happy for you go out and make some good stuff. I think if I want to walk and vlog I would get a Pocket 3.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts about this and fostering this discussion. I think another reason for the bias is probably the lens selection. The E-mounts are more developed and have a lot more choices in terms of high quality, small form-factor lenses. There's a lot of people interested in small, lightweight, fast cameras that have less intimidating profiles than your normal "big" cameras. I hold a lot of value in a great "wolf in sheep's clothing" camera that looks like a point-and-shoot. The S9 sounds like an amazing camera, but it's weakness lies within the system's L-mount system. The L-mount system simply lacks small lenses aside from that f8 pancake.
I personally underwent a journey to find a better EDC camera than what I have (which because of the work I do are the Lumix S5, GH5, G85, and Nikon D750 camera bodies). Even the G85 was a too big with it's handle for my very specific needs. I ended up going MFT with the GX85 paired with the 20mm f1.7. I went this route because I valued the smallest form factor possible. Its certainly not perfect and in fact the AF with this combo is sooo slow, but I have very specific needs.
So please L-mount alliance, make developing lenses with a small form factor design ethos a priority in your pipeline. Then we'd have a killer camera with lenses that match it's small form factor. As a start, we need a tiny wide-normal range short zoom (ok if it's slower and variable aperture), and some fast but tiny primes (I'd be ok with f2.8). How closely can you mimic the design of the FF equivalent of the MFT 14mm f2.8, and 20mm f1.7? Just my 2 cents.
Sigma already makes small L-mount lenses: 17mm, 24mm, 45mm, 65mm and 90mm. They're not pancake lenses but small and light and work perfectly on the S9. No doubt Panasonic will release some smaller lenses, e.g. 18-40mm coming soon. BTW, I had a GX85 with 14mm and 20mm pancake lenses. The S9 with a few small Sigma lenses blows the m4/3 kit out of the park in terms of IQ and features, and it's not much different in size.
Re your EDC -- the GX85 with 20mm pancake. Yeah that lens is slow (but it's what I usually carry as well). The Oly 18mm is supposed to be much quicker fwiw. I upgraded from the GX85 to the GX9 -- very similar form-factor (but heavier!). A worthy upgrade imo
@@pete_au I’ll look into those lenses. Didn’t realize there were small ones!
@@sdrtcacgnrjrc I did consider the gx9. It just happen to be 2x the price on the used market. I’ll have to reconsider the Oly 18. Thanks!
Spot on josh! Great video and keep on with the great work!
Thank you mate! Appreciate you!
Sony Camera Reviews definitely need to change 🤨☝️
PS: the Sony A7CII has ONLY First curtain mechanical shutter which theoretically is inferior to first and second curtain (full) mechanical shutter… but honestly I haven’t had an issue with the S9 ES.
I think the S9 was really being compared to the S5II & S5IIx, even though it was more for a ZV-E10II audience. Plus, it had the wrong lens at launch. I am waiting for black friday discounts to get one. Thanks.
s9 is absolutely brilliant, youtubers like to complain about the things 99% people who buy the camera won't use ever, very biased
I totally agree with you. People are being bias towards sony. I wouldn't buy the sony zve10ii without the ibis but every youtuber is saying it's awesome and forget other cameras like lumix and fuji
There's so many great cameras out there to be honest! Beyond what Sony offers :) Thanks for watching !
Hello Josh,
Thanks for your honest review. I’m getting the S9! I hope you keep posting more content about it. Also, if we consider the hybrid zoom feature, it will make things harder for Sony.
Im so close to selling all my Sony gear and switching to Panasonic, all we need is higher record limit on S9 and a F2 pancake 20mm or 24mm lens.
Have a S5IIX sitting in my cart w/ 18mm f1.8 for all talking head stuff.
Thanks for the info and test.
I switched to Panasonic from Sony in 2020, and I've not looked back since. And that was when the AF was still Contrast Detect!
Do it! You won’t regret the switch!
Not a fan of the 18mm but, if you can get a S5II + 50mm for like $1500, do it...asap ! You wont regret it ! Matter of fact, B&H has the S5iiX & the 50mm TOGETHER, for $1800. Hell of a deal !
As the great and miss understood Emperor Palpatine once said:
DO IT!
I agree Josh that there is bias. I was disappointed with the Chris/Jordan Petapixel review of the S9 where they claimed it was "baffling" (really?) and then the later comparison video against the ZV-E10ii where they claimed the Sony was better based mainly on ergo/handling and audio (headphone jack). That ignored key S9 features that have way more importance on final image/video output quality: the FF sensor, excellent IBIS, open gate, etc). Anyway, I traded in my GX85 + mft lenses for an S9 and some Sigma primes. So now I have the S5II with some Lumix zooms and an S9 with small Sigma primes (and the Lumix 26mm f8 which I love). The best of both worlds - one lens mount, one battery size, same menu system, awesome IQ. Loving it! 💯☑
Really glad to hear that you're enjoying your L-Mount kit, sounds like a really nice combo!
I guess some people prioritise different things. For me, I rarely use the headphone jack, and I'd NEVER use in-camera audio. I've already spent money on decent wireless mic kits, so I don't understand why anyone would opt for an in-camera mic solution. Why spend £1000 on a camera for vlogging and then stop at the audio (arguably the most important thing). It baffles me, but if the world was made up of people that always agreed with you, I guess it'd be a boring place!
This was exactly what i was thinking the Sony seems more crippled than the S9 due to its lack of stabilization and other reviewers literally didn't care at all do they expect users who buy this because it's cheaper and small to buy something like a gimple which is bigger and additional expense. I just don't get the zv e10 ii
I make up my own mind on camera purchases. I appreciate insight and observations, but compare the influencers observations to my needs & considerations. I see lots of prescriptions but not so much diagnosis. I appreciate you and your rational take on the S9. Being in the L-mount world, this camera is a no-brainer to add to my arsenal- and I’m not a RUclips creator but a documentarian who wants a light, truly portable full-frame camera and an everyday carry. It looks perfect for that and I ordered mine yesterday.
I'm definitely interested in getting the S9. I want to get just one versatile lens though, geared toward vlog content. Would you recommend the 20-60 kit lens that it comes with, or something else?
As a S5ii user, I tried a S9 but decided I’d be better with a 3rd S5ii unit and as it was €200 cheaper (used), helped make the decision even more clear.
But at closer to 1000, that probably would have swung the S9 as my third unit.
Build, 2 card slots, fan were what swung it for me though in favour of the S5ii.
Maybe because more reviewers have already bought into the E mount system. I’m very excited about the S9 because of its incredible value, and all my lenses are already L-mount.
Random comment here Josh but I just watched this vid on my big telly… your pics are clean as a whistle!!
EXCELLENT video Josh! The Sony bias is real. I hope to see weather sealing in the mark ii version of this camera, and maybe silver color making its way here to the US.
Thanks Phil - The silver version looks great! As far as I'm aware it's only available in the Asian market currently
@@JoshCameron they are unfortunately. eBay has had a few I just couldn’t get warranty. I’m thinking 20-60 Panasonic lens paired with it, good pick for the s9?
I agree, I have actually owned three Sony cameras, including the ZVE one which is really the comparable rival. The number one selling point despite the Sony having the amazing hot shoe with all the Sony accessories, which is super convenient. The main selling point for me is the stabilization on the Lumix cameras because I don’t wanna carry a gimbal, and it works great and it looks good. The other things are also good. I’ve had a great experience with it, and all of the limitations are not things that I really worry about. Perhaps the only thing that sometimes frustrates me is the lack of lens selection, although the Lumix lenses are fantastic with Sonya nice that there’s a lot more options. Other than that, I’ve really enjoyed the Lumix experience, the menus, the app and all the things that you mentioned.
Agreed. I think the whole S9 launch (as well as other purchases) helped me see how much I shouldn't listen to camera "reviewers" on youtube. Though I would say that the S9 marketing is kind of off. Meaning I think they overemphasized the LUT feature and didn't focus on the more interesting features.
I agree with most of what you presented, I think where Sony still has the upper hand is the E mount, there's just such a better selection of compact lenses from third parties than there is on the L mount side, and for camera like these, having a huge lens kinda makes no sense. Something I'm also curious about is whether these cheaper Sony cameras have OLPFs, and what the moire looks like on them vs the Lumix cameras, cause my S5IIX is pretty bad in that department. Also just to point out, the S5ii isn't really better in rolling shutter performance unless you put it into aps-c mode, full frame its at 22ms whereas the a6700 is at 15.9ms. I love Lumix and have for over a decade now, but I still see the merit for Sony cameras
Excellent video, I shoot with the original S5 and find it great. I love Panasonic cameras in general, the button/controls are laid out to be easy to use and price is another great factor in it, A lot of people pass by the Lumix cameras to buy the Sony's or Nikon etc but I find after trying many different brands that the Lumix S5 just feels right to me, I've even shot some of my content on my S5 and had no issues with the contrast AF.
Love your channel, keep up the good work.
if you can find me a link for me to buy the lumix s9 at €1000 id buy it immediately. Yet here in Belgium it is € 1699 while the ZV E10 MII is only €1089
Are they going to give us 18-40mm anytime soon for Lumix?
Great video and I'm inclined to agree. Sony's grapple on the influencer crowd is easy to see, but it's great to see plenty of Lumix peeps cropping up and showing what the tools can do (without needing to be on the payroll to do it).
£1099 is super tempting! Only issue is I'm somewhat concerned that Cotswold are grey market imports based on all their prices!
Great review ! I don't even know why there are so many comparisons with zv e10, because they are very different cameras. Compare eith zve1 or 7cii and then you realize the value of s9
Great video. I like how your just speaking the truth and not trying to win people over. I have always said those who buy Sony or Conon do so for the brand name those who buy Lumix do so for the camera.
The recorded limit for the S9 really shouldn't be an issue. Its 15 minutes per recording. The camera is for vloggers so do they need more then 15 minutes to say what they need to say? The S9 has already force Sony to bring a camera out that matches it in some ways. Same as how Sony brought mirrorless cameras out after the GH5.
i have the s5iix and i am very pleased and also for b camera rhe original s5 which i am going to sell and go for sony zv e10ii or s9 ,what would you do? ,and i hope your camera did not burnt in Greece due to hot weather 😝Still hot here ..
People buy cameras not only for vlogging. IBIS (In-Body Image Stabilization) is good, but it’s not the only feature we should consider when buying a camera. Personally, I just want a camera with good image quality, priced below $1000, to put on a tripod and film myself, just like you do in your studio. It could also be used for top-down shots as a second angle. The recording limit is a deal breaker for me. By the way, you value IBIS a lot, but your camera is on a tripod. You should try walking and running while reviewing gear; that would be fun to watch.
I have played with the S9 for a bit but I did find the controls pretty clunky compared to the S5 series.
The thing is I think the S9 was marketed as a kinda stripped down hybrid camera for creators but the ZVE10 II has always been sold as vlogging camera so expectations were different.
I would agree with you that the S9 is arguably a more feature-rich vlogging and video camera than the ZVE10 II but does really fall flat as a creator's hybrid camera.
And the ZVE10 II due to the lower price would make it a lot more attractive to people who just want a simple vlogging camera but cares very little about the other features.
10:00 well the Sony has LUTs but yes more primitive. Still it can bake the LUT in the video like the Lumix but can't do it for stills... In fact I started using the Lumix app for grading Sony footage on my phone :D
Thankfully, LUMIX did remove the record limit with a firmware update in October. I already have the S5ii, but, I would be grateful for the S9 if I wanted it. I moved from a Sony FX30 to the S5ii when I found a used one (like new) for $1,375. At the time, the S9 was still around $1,300 used. Personally, I've always preferred LUMIX colors over most brands. So, I'm very happy with the S5ii and its fantastic image quality.
P.S. I was disturbed by the attack on the S9 upon its release. It was a strange occurrence to say the least. I still don't think it was warranted on any level. I think part of it came from how some interpreted LUMIX's marketing approach to the S9. Which had nothing to do with the camera itself. And I still think the S9 is much more capable than a "travel camera" as many content creators have labeled it.
My brother turned me on to Panasonic. I like Sony, but love my Panasonic. I don't have the S9 though.
This Video Is Bananas, Detailed & Very Well Done!🤝🏿👍🏿
RUclips is a big marketing platform and Sony got out in front of the others with it. Sony Creator Camp is a hit with influencers and while they will tell you that does not influence (no pun intended) their reviews, it does. We’re human. Someone treats us well, we will likely respond in kind. Influencers love Sony and influence us to buy Sony. By the way, I agree with you.
i dont think you can even use flash without a mechanical shutter right? so the hot shoe on the sony would probably be used for their compatible mics
That's probably correct to be honest, I'm going to look into that because it's a great point. The hot shoe most definitely on that camera just so they can upsell their hot-shoe mic accessories
You can use flash without mechanical shutter if the sensor readout speed is fast enough (for example Nikon Z8). If I remember correctly, ZVE1 and ZVE10 II can sync up to 1/30". The S9 sensor is much slower, which makes flashing without mechanical shutter virtually pointless.
I think a lot of the hate for the S9 comes from other Panasonic users that aren't used to compromises like that. While Sony users rarely look outside of the Sony offerings so they're mostly unaware of the S9. There probably is a bias there somewhere too, especially in areas online where the two communities do overlap.
Agree with all your points (especially open-gate and IBIS). Given the casual use/run and gun focus, IBIS on the S9 is the major winner - not needing a rig or gimbal suits the target market really well and it's the main thing that made me switch from Sony. Post gyro stabilisation for Sony can't compare because it relies on high shutter speed that's at odds with the 180 degree shutter with motion blur. Not to mention all the additional processing time involved with Catalyst Browse, vs the S5 ii + S9 just looking smooth out of camera.
Main bonus for the ZV-E10 II is the better in-built microphone, that's a great run and gun feature (with a windcover) rather than having to mount and plug-in a different mic on the S9. Would love to see this on the S9 ii, as well as another rear dial, and a very small grip (similar to the smallrig addon but without the additional bottom plate)
Alternatively, I'd love an A7C III with Panasonic level IBIS and open-gate too, I have no loyalty one way or another. It's just whatever is the best for my needs, and IBIS is huge for someone that wants a minimal setup. Especially when considering these small cameras - the moment you add a rig or gimbal it negates any of the size/weight savings.
You should always use what works for you, so I totally agree with your insights. I didn't look too deeply into the built-in microphone on the ZV-E10II, but it did sound better than the S9's internal mic. I'd always be inclined to use a wireless mic kit though, purely because built-in-mics will never compare.
Thanks for watching, I appreciate your thoughts!
I totally agree with your comments about lifting the record limit on the S9! I hope they do fix that cripple!
@@Democratiser I think it makes sense, especially if the camera has proved it can handle it :)
@@JoshCameronDo you shoot 15 monute clips? I don't get it - none of your videos have such clips, no cinematographer shoots such long clips. What creators make videos with 15 minute continuous clips?
The problem with the S9 was that at the time of release, it was priced identically to the discounted s5ii in a bundle with a 50mm lens, and with the hand grip and the relatively large L-mount lenses, the weight difference wasn’t substantial. So you pay the same, and you get what is still a fairly large camera but with cut back features. They released the s9 alongside a manual focus fixed f8 lens and tried to show a visual similarity to the x100v. That was ridiculous. What is the point of a phase detect full frame camera when you use a lens with no autofocus and a tiny aperture? It was clear to anybody that the s5ii was the obvious winner given these conditions, and if you wanted a small setup, Panasonic L-mount didn’t offer a compelling option.
I think the issue was the PDAF. Now that lumix has it changes everything. I used Nikon / Sony and Lumix. The main problem now is all photographers below 40, already used to use Sony and invested in glass. The only way to Lumix get the market is creating an adapter from E-Mount to L-Mount autofocus. I do portraits using S1R (I have 2) and Leica glass. The reason that I am not buying the S9 is the cold shoe... It is 2024... it is just unacceptable since the electronics is soooooo cheap today. I'll be waiting for the S9 with a hot shoe. Panasonic, I hope it was worth to save 7 USD in electronics removing the curtain and hot shoe... Give me 1/125.. I don't care... but the lack of hot shoe is the only real problem for me. Love your video... Please keep going... I think Panasonic needs to work better on their marketing explaining how good is the PDAF. Nikon is doing an amazing job with the ZF !
Whew, the S9 for 1099 pounds is a GREAT deal !
Great video that definitely shows unwarranted hate of the S9.
when i first heard about the recording limits, i was fine with them untill i saw the limit on FHD. Reminded me of the LX100 (OG)
it had a recording limit of 10 min (i believe...) on 4K. in FullHD there was just the stupid 30 min Camcorder/PhotoCamera tax restrictions if i'm not mistaking...
lifting the limits would be the more "libertarian approach" and i would prefer it. the positiv on limits might be, that there is no roasted Sensor in the second hand market with Lumix - or let's say less degraded
so i would love to see the following:
a firmware update that limits the real hard stuff (if lifting the limits is no option) but give us at least one less taxing record mode without limits. on the other hand give us 20 second bursts of FHD 480p (if the sensor is capable) or some other slowmo-crazyness
release such fw with the pancake zoom teased and i have to buy one
Love lumix stuff. Had a g9 and now and S5II and a sony 6500. Affordable lenses are just more available on the sony cameras. Not to mention smaller lenses for full frame options for sony which the s9 desperately needs. Everything else though is stellar with lumix cameras.
I think there's an overall Sony/Canon bias. Especially on youtube. Sony probably has the fastest, largest marketing going out with creators. The s5ii and S9 did get a lot of people to notice Lumix, but it still doesn't have the same hype as a Sony or Canon. Even with similar image quality, and the best ibis by far, and (if you ask me) Log profile.
V-Log is still my favourite log, although I must say that S-Log 3/S-Gamut3cine surprised me. It's much better than it used to be! Dollar for dollar, Sony will be a more expensive brand to get into compared to Lumix. I hope people start realising this sooner than later because the upsides of Lumix outweigh any other upsides from Sony :)
To be fair lumix is late to the pdaf game by 5-6 years
@@JoshCameron Definitely the favorite! The biggest drawbacks of the S5ii vs the FX3 are reallly just the autofocus, but Lumix DRAMATICALLY improved this from the original S5 (Still a great B-cam!) and the amount of accessories that are made for Sony.
@@JJARCHIE oh for sure!
As someone who came up in video using manual focus this didn’t bother me much. I get it though!
I own the a6700 and im trading it for lumix s9 i prefer stable video over AI tracking as my use case is just get stylised footage thats stable and quality
How about vs the zve1?
I'm gonna be totally honest with you, I completely forgot about it.... but that's more expensive than the A7CII isn't it?
@@JoshCameron Weird, as that camera is its really only competition. No its cheaper than the A7CII. S9 looks great but what shotgun would you suggest without it looking bulky?
I reckon the issue with the S9 was that the field was open and we enthusiasts thought the S9 would hit the ball out of the park by being an S5II in a small body.
But it isn’t.
So there was disappointing about ‘what might have been’. I still hope there is another higher spec model which addresses the limitations on the S9 you highlighted (although I have no need for mechanical shutter, but I want weather sealing). It would then be perfect once they release that small zoom to match.
For video it is exactly the S5 ii in a small body, plus new hybrid zoom capability.
I would really like to own a LUMIX S9. Just waiting for some pancake options.
Don’t be scared of adapted lenses. I shoot mostly manual and if you can deal with manual focus a whole world opens up. Leica M mount on the S9 work so well and look amazing. I personally have a Konica Hexanon 45mm f/1.8 that’s so small and compact even with the adapter.
No hate! All love! Photography and videography is fun regardless of what you shoot on! :)
Great video as usual Josh , im wondering why they made open gate 420 color? is it possible to get 422 with an external recorder?
It’s just a massive amount of processing for a smaller/older sensor. It’s still 10 bit which is amazing for such a tiny camera and since it’s geared for social media, probably even overkill. 4.2.2 10 bit for C4k though and all other modes below 6k
@@phoenixprjct yup, definitely processing bottlenecks. BTW: "It’s still 10 bit ... since it’s geared for social media, probably even overkill." - 422 would still be more than welcome as 6K OG videos are (when properly shot) excellent sources of video framegrabs
@@mostlyfinnishlifeeventsand5112For sure. Just saying that people watching reels on their phones currently aren’t probably notice the 420 vs 422 color difference on vertical shots. And for sub $1,300 it makes sense.
Great video mate the video I was waiting for 🙌🏾
My only problem with the S9 that I talked about was only the recording limits, because it blocked me from what I was hopping I could do with this camera.
But for sure it is an amazing camera, and the price is a bit high in my opinion, when you can find currently the S5II at €1600 where I am. But said that, lumix could only just take the recording limit out, as Sony did with the ZV E1, and let people experience the overheating, at least we know it is there and that we can deal with it as best we can, but putting a record limit, is not the way to go.
I’m sorry, lumix shooter too, but that’s a huge bummer.
To answer your question: what Sony did better is to not put the record limits, and that is what everyone or most people are talking about.
What that shows is that people are willing to go for a downgraded spec camera than having limitations imposed by manufacturers.
That’s what I think.
But still love lumix and probably will end up purchasing one, because it matches perfectly with the Limix S5IIX, and I really hope they take the limitation away.
Thanks for the video mate 😊
I'm hoping some people at Lumix do see this video and make a change with firmware to the recording limit. While it doesn't affect me at all, I know a lot of potential adopters are put off by it. I reckon the S9 could easily go for 45 mins to an hour before it got dangerously hot, so maybe an override option like we've seen with Sony cams would be something that could happen. I don't know though; I'm not an engineer, just an avid user!
@@JoshCameron yeah I’ve seen it is able to do good recording times, so hopefully they hear us and change 🤞🏾🤞🏾🤞🏾🤞🏾🤞🏾
My biggest gripe about S9 was lack of headphone jack, weather sealing. The Lumix G85 from 2016 have these
The G85 is bigger, heavier, has 33% less resolution, is MFT, a much lower dynamic range, less recording options, a lower resolution LCD screen, no USB Power Delivery and you got a grip about two features that are mostly used in more professional oriented scenarios? Please also don't forget this is basically a high-end point and shoot, for crying out loud!
Do you really monitor audio on a small camera like this with headphones? Actually curious.
For this demographic I bet 99% of the people are using a rode or dji mic transmitter and not walking around with headphones on. I always have better audio gear and monitor through that. Or I use the outputs on Atomos/Video Monitor.
@@phoenixprjctI do
They didn’t need a headphone jack, they could have just let you use a headphone dongle in the USB-C port. No possibility for monitoring at all is just dumb.
@@hemzheruInteresting. You’re the first person I’ve met that uses a small camera like this and wears headphones and monitors audio through the camera.
@@phoenixprjct it’s not like I do it every time I shoot something. But if I want to get a quick interview and it’s all I have on me, it’s always nice to be able to.
And like I said, they simply should have let you connect via the USB-C port. That port is just sitting there doing nothing more than half the time.
Great video! There will be no Sony a6700 vs. Lumix S9?
Thank you! And probably not. I think Sony have blurred their product lineup too much, so much so that certain cameras have almost become pointless (the differences seem to be more hardware than firmware between the 6700 and the ZV-E10II)
@@JoshCameron Ok, I'm debating between the a6700 or the Lumix S9, which one to buy. I care about small size and weight, so aps-c will probably win. 🙂 Thank you.
I totally understand people who prefer sony because of the lens selection and price, but when you are talking about youtube Sony cameras are like iphones, people care about the brand and status
Absolutely agree, Sony cameras are very good, Solid cameras but Lumix is better in so many ways, and I have both Sony and Lumix, I currently own the A7IV and had the FX30 and from Lumix I have the S5II and GH6 which are my main video working cameras, and Sonys marketing is SOOO good that you ignore the quirks and lack of features compared to Lumix, again … Sony has great cameras sure, but over all, Lumix is better.
It's nice to get this feedback from someone who's still currently shooting with both brands! Just shows that the story portrayed on RUclips isn't definitive, and you should try using other brands before taking other people's word for it
I seriously believe that a lot of hate for the S9 comes from the fact that Gerald Undone made a rant video over the fact that he wasn't invited to the launch in Japan. He seemed pretty upset about that: or, more precisely, he seemed upset by the realization that there are so many creators out there reviewing cameras that he has become "dispensible." And also in that video, he decided to vent about the whole practice of inviting creators to launch parties in exotic locations. Something he was happy to participate in prior to this, but finally felt he had to say something about it after not being invited to the launch party for the S9. Overall, whether intentially or not, Gerald Undone gave the impression that Panasonic was up to "something" with the release of the S9 and was possibly trying to hide something by not inviting him and the likes of Patrick Tomasso.
I have a lot of opinions on that video, too many to get into here in the comment section - but I agree with you in the sense that he definitely stirred the pot surrounding the S9 launch. I have respect for him and for Patrick (who I met at the S5II event, he's a lovely guy)!
I see 3 main problems with the S9.
1. Hard recording limits:
Please remove these in a FW update, as the camera can shut off when it overheats like literally any other camera.
2. Lack of compact L mount lenses:
The 26mm f8 exacerbated this rather than quenching it. It should have launched with the 18-40 (which I think is a near perfect range BTW)
3. Price:
In isolation, it's actually decent value in comparison to the Sony vlogging cameras but the S5II being only $200 more means you really need to value compactness to go for the S9. Also, weather sealing should be a must at that price point. For $1200, this would be a much better value proposition.
1. Nobody shoots 15 minute clips. The camera does not overheat and shutdown, it is a hard limit. After 15 minutes you can start shooting right way. Do you shoot clips of more than 15 minutes? Why?
2. There are compact Sigma lenses. For example, the Sigma 45mm f2.8 and a few more that size. Do your homework.
@@markr041 I agree on both, but, after restarting the third 15-minute capture with the S9, it really overheats as nicely demonstrated here. But you are right, who wants to record 45 minutes non stop?
Saying the camera is expensive because another camera is cheap doesn’t really make any sense. I understand the psychology but it’s not really how the world works. My studio apartment should be cheaper because the 2 bedroom apartments down the hall are a better deal? Also look at Sony and Fuji prices. ZV-E1 is a better comparison to the S9 and is $1,800. Can’t do anamorphic modes, open gate, 6k, worse IBIS, also overheats…
Real time luts alone makes this camera and the S5ii far ahead of anything else. It’s perfect for quick turn around work and also when I’m causally shooting for fun.
Sony's are prone to the sensor developing heat burn spots at higher temperatures. I've seen tons of reddit posts.
I didn't know that! The more you know eh? thanks!
You know Lumix use Sony made sensors, right?
@@ninetymm That’s not the point he’s making. He’s suggesting that because of the high temperature mode in the Sony cameras, their sensors develop burn spots. Nothing to do with who actually manufactures the sensor.
@@JoshCameron My bad for not fully understanding his point.
I have Somy ZV E10 mark I and I can't see me upgrading to the Mark II, the amount they ask here, I have mine with 3 lenses, two of them prime.
Now I am looking at a used Nikon D7000 for see if it possible to use it with my old nikon lenses 😁
Its not all about the specs.. when you use the cameras, you will realize Lumix is like entitled gf, that you gotta take care of her everyday..
But sony will be like those down to the earth gf that takes care of you everyday.
But in the end these are tools, its better off for you if you have a tool that is reliable and easy to use. Sony is like that.. and the end result isnt bad neither..
I gave many chances to lumix thinking they are the better camera for the money,
But every time i had to go back to sony. Because they are stressless and the end results are just as good or sometimes better.
Even with the autofocus.. you can see in this video. Sony has way nature autofocus and lumix s9 has those harsh transitions.
Things like that matters to the creators.
In conclusion, i think if you are seasoned enough to take care lumix cameras and can take advantage of all its features effortlessly then go for it.
But if you just want to set it and forget it, and focus on your contents creating..Sony is way better imo
You're spitting facts but not it's worth convincing those who just buy brands. The actual reason of the bias might have to do with affiliate marketing strategies, most youtubers know they'll earn way more money pushing for Sony, their cameras basically sell themselves...but that's just what I think.
P.S. I love my S9!
Glad you love your S9 dude! The politics of RUclips is very interesting, and I'd be lying if I said I wasn't somewhat involved since I also make product based videos. My biggest concern is that certain products get preferential treatment, and that always seems to happen with Sony's releases. I challenge you to find one negative take on any of the most recent Sony cameras, yet there's always a mixed reception with other brands, and that doesn't seem right to me. Sure, there's great benefits to shooting with Sony, but not everything is peachy and there's bound to be cons with every brand :) I'll admit that Lumix have their issues, and the S9 has its own set of setbacks that are non-negotiable for some... but to write it off like everyone did at the start is just ridiculous, especially when the ZV-E10II is inferior in so many ways
@@JoshCameron Thanks! I had already noticed it-the amount of mental gymnastics some channels went through was quite baffling. Who can forget all the headlines ("THE S9 IS CONFUSING"), but when the ZVE-II was released, suddenly everything stopped being confusing! 😗 I got into a lot of pointless arguments and realized that either A. People lack real-world experience/knowledge or B. There are ulterior or disingenuous motives at play. I hate name-dropping channels, but the one that starts with "Peta" and ends with "Pixel" made one of the most ludicrous videos comparing both cameras... it was aggravatingly biased and hypocritical. Fortunately, a lot of people in the comments called it out, but it's just way too obvious.
This is coming from an ex-Sony user who switched the a6700 for the S9 and won't look back. I just need an extra 5 minutes on every mode...
The Sony hype is definitely turning into the Apple vs. Android debate. Lumix needs more love shown to it because the S9 is a better package compared to the Sony E10ll. I'm currently in the market for a new camera and this was very helpful Josh!
I'm glad this was helpful mate! My take: Don't get the ZV-E10II 🤣
Great analysis. Never been a fan of Sony's business model, which is to over promise and under deliver while charging a premium because they're Sony.
i agree with you. the Sony bias is crazy online. i said this when the S9 was announced, the biggest problem is it's price. if this camera was around $1000-$1200, i don't think anyone would've cried as much as they did. i know why they couldn't make it that cheap, but that's my take.
If you look at the specs, it's unmatched in its price point. The issue is that Lumix have been so competitive with their pricing on the S5II, and I think that also makes people question the value proposition of the S9 more so than they would normally
Sony has fanboys, not users. I don't like the S9 but I adore my S5II, and sony has nothing on the price range that can even compete with it, still there's lots of youtubers giving their soul and first child to sony.
Can I ask, have you actually tried the S9? It's easy to write-off at first, but it's become my most used camera of the year. The S5II and S5IIX are still my workhorse bodies, but for the non-client stuff (RUclips, Photography, Social Posting etc), the S9 is incredible :)
@JoshCameron For video the S9 has all the features of the S5 ii plus the new hybrid zoom.
Sony has a metric crap ton of users. Are you nuts? I was in Vegas over the weekend for the biggest jiujitsu tournament in the world. Probably close to 100 media I didn’t see a single non Sony camera being used for that media. That was the production crew and the individual photographers and videographers being hired by the athletes. I love my S5II LOVE IT, but panasonic was nowhere to be seen and for the most part isn’t yet and there’s probably a reason for that.
@@BrandonTalbot and at NFL, NBA, Major League Baseball, FIFA, etc. world class sports most every photographer is using Canon, so what is your point Slick? Some minor sport which no one cares about had Sony photographers at it?
Would love an s9 with an evf, that's the deal breaker for me!
Hi, they are both excellent cameras. I think it depends a lot on the way you work and you personal tastes.
Reason for Panasonic
Instinctively i would say
Sensor
Colors
Stabilizazion
Sony:
Autofocus
Many lenses
Microphons
Congratulations for your videos, they are always very beautiful.
Thank you Sandro, I really appreciate that!
Well i used sony zve10 and the standard profile with some tweaks were better than Lumix S5II
I know its hard to believe but its true.
I am sure if you tweak hard then you can get good footage with Lumix. But sony cameras were just easier to use and reliable.
Recording or streaming, lumix gave me alot of headaches..
But with sony i was able not worrying about the cameras and its settings because i know its reliable.
Good review thank you for your work.
Thank you for watching! :)
mostly because the lumix s9 is actually agreat camera
lumix just crippled it so people would buy the more expensive cameras
everyone has a bias...even you have a bias....When taking about price you said the sony costs shy of 1000 when it is just a bit above 900 but you said the exact price of 1499 for the lumix, you could have have said 1500 but you didn't. By a slight twist of wording you added 100 pounds to the price of sony and reduced 100 from the price of s9...I am sure that was not intentional. I point out this to show that we all have bias whether we like to admit or not. At the end of the end buy what you want and like...