you probably dont give a shit but if you're bored like me atm you can watch pretty much all of the new series on instaflixxer. I've been binge watching with my brother during the lockdown xD
I read that line as follows: Great video! And brave, too. Really true what you say about... um, dialogue. I do think reading subtitles in shows and movies is a good example for how to format dialogue conversations properly.
I used to think that when you tell a story, you have to include *Every. Detail. Chronologically.* It made it seem like writing was a burden. Little did I know - creating a narrative is doing the absolute opposite.
Oh man, I am so guilty of this haha, once I wrote a scene where the MC visits a manor that sits on top of a great hill. My writing felt as if I described every step she took. I tell you, this was the most painful thing to write and read.
Considering I've committed so many rookie writing mistakes and sins, I do wonder how I never committed this one. Perhaps my influences? My favorite stories tend to not be chronological and I tend to write non-chronological stories so maybe I just lucked out in that regard.
Me, me, me!!! I felt like I was more like a chronist, having to record everything that happens. Because when I skipped something, I was cheating, right?!... ;-D I learned that less is more - and when I am not mentioning how wy characters get from point A to point B, than because it's not important to the story - and not because I was too lazy to write it. Things became a lot easier after I realized that. ^_^
I did the exact same thing. I wrote everything a character did from the moment they woke up until they lost consciousness again. I even tried to describe every detail of every street they passed by on their way to the grocery. Which was even more absurd considering that I pay no attention to my surroundings when I walk to the shop myself. I'm just too lost in my thoughts to do that. My solution was to switch to a character that did more important things at the same time. The exact same time. I did not allow time-skips. Also, my characters fainted a lot. Because what they can't see, I don't have to describe. It was much too late when I learnt that writing a story means cutting out everything that is not crucial to what you want to achieve. Much too late.
You consider 18 an embarrassing age for not knowing these things? That bar is way too high! I know published authors who don't know how to use quotation marks for basic dialogue.
To be fair when you're 23, 18 is still a fresh and mortifying memory of the recent past! Maybe in a few years I'll be a bit easier on myself from that era of my life haha
People learn and try new things at different points in their lives. I didn't start writing until I was 30 and don't think of any of my writing mistakes as embarrassing, just a learning curve.
I'm 23 I have written a few stories for fun but nothing like super serious, if I tried to write something serious I'm 100% it would be full of rookie mistakes like that... so 18 is supposed to be embarrassing lmao
That is so relatable about dialogue. I'm still working on this one, but I used to say, "I/He/She paused," way more than was necessary. Or "hesitated". If you include your action or dialogue tag in the middle of a piece of dialogue, the reader already gets a sense of the pause. I don't know why, but it took me a long time to realise this...!
Dialogue tags and body language in dialogues is still one of the hardest things for me. I'm getting better (i.e. I use them less), but it'S a struggle...
I try to put tags where I hear pauses and to describe what the character does during that pause. Some of them have simple nervous tick, some just seem depressed, sighing all the time, but if I understand the person enough, they just do things that make sense
I did the opposite - I made things so mysterious that even I didn't know what I meant, the entire text was subtext for stuff I hadn't even figured out :')
So I thought that the stakes in all my stories had to be life or death. As in, if I had an idea that didn't include multiple life threatening situations, it wasn't a good story. I was also pretty sure none of my characters could have both parents.
I tried to follow standard advice on starting with a character profile, MBTI personality type, gamer personality schemes. Later realized that John Truby was right. It's the other way round. You come up with situations, decide how the character would react, and from there build up his profile. Yes, I'm a pantser.
If you flesh out a character as you tell the story, you'd be less likely to infodump them the first chance you get. Instead of saying, "he's annoying", because you aren't totally sure, you could Instead have him bust into his neighbors house unannounced, imposing himself on his poor neighbors, oblivious to their kind and generous social cues.
Every story I wrote when I was younger was set around a young female orphan who's best friend dies and she goes on a misleaded path to get away until she dies at the end.
@A. Maureen Burns it was similar for me and I had never heard about Jane eyre - now I see why I fell in love with the book when I first read it last fall hahah
Ohh I have some misconceptions to share too: - I thought that what mattered most in a story was just... nice sounding words and sentences. I literally just worried about how I was gonna write something on a superficial level, never really thought about the plot or why and how I was using those words and techniques. - I also didn't understand the link between a character's personality and their past. It finally hit me when I talked to someone and they suggested I think about their background and how it has shaped them. Of course, you can't link every detail of a character to how they grew up, but there definitely is a lot!
I've been writing professionally for 20 years now, and I'm greatly enjoying your videos, here and over at Reedsy as well. Please don't feel bad about your early misconceptions about writing, we've all been there. One of my own misconceptions was the idea that sometimes I needed to add more words to a sentence to make it flow better. Like, "This sentence needs a few more syllables to really work!" It resulted in a lot of sentences loaded down with unnecessary words, sometimes to the point where it interfered with what the sentence was trying to get across! Another embarrassing misconception of mine came with the use of mottos or platitudes. Instead of writing, say, "you can't fight City Hall," I was under the impression everything had to relate to the character who in whose POV we were, so it would be "he couldn't fight City Hall," which maybe doesn't sound so bad until you realize it begins to pile up into its own brand of awfulness. So again, don't feel bad! It's all part of the journey. None of us are born fully formed writers, as great as that would be. We have to learn from our mistakes. Anyway, keep up the good work!
6:43 - I would argue that formatting is actually fine. There is a difference between prose thought and active internal thought. The latter of which I would say should be in italics.
I don't think it was technically incorrect, but the way I did it was soooo unnatural and clumsy haha. There would just be like random thoughts in italics with no real rhyme or reason to it?? Not sure what my logic was!
Yeah. I write third person limited and I kind of think of it like a thin filter. So I'll usually have my characters thoughts expressed through that thin filter that allows me to feel more free with my writing, but occasionally I have have a specific thought that I rip the filter away from. I usually do it like (and this is just a random example) _Yes,_ she thinks, _I do, I do, I do._ Ect. Which I feel gives more...power? To the sentence. Putting thoughts in italics can definitely be done in a sloppy hap-hazard way though.
When I write third person reflective, I find I need to delineate between the thoughts of my older, more mature narrator vs the thoughts of his younger self. Since the the younger guy is the protagonist and I want my readers to most psychically align with him, I offset those younger thoughts in italics... I suppose I could also use thinker attributions, but italics feels better for this story!
I think those (even writers and wannabe writers) believe that writing and writing novels isn't really as HARD as it is. Or that it's more about persistence and commitment and if you just DID IT, you'd have a good novel. LOL. It's a skill and a muscle and ya gotta break it down and build it up. But a lot of these things you point out I too had those same misconceptions at some point or another. I love this! We all need to be more honest about the reality of writing without self shaming ourselves in memes over it. 😂
oh my god this is some relatable content!! As a young writer I definitely equated the ability to finish a novel with the ability to write well, and slowing down to focus more on craft rather than putting all my effort into merely getting to the last page definitely would have helped me learn more effectively.
My second worst misconception was that I had to be as good as the classic writers. Here kid, write something as weird and mean and sad as Guy DeMaupassant's "Mother Sauvage." Try to do sci-fi/romance/religious allegory as well as Hawthorne's "Rappaccini's Daughter." My worst misconception is that if I didn't achieve greatness in my first draft, then I sucked, and that led to writer's block for years as I critiqued myself into silence.
When I read what I wrote as a teenager, it actually hurts. The ellipses, the italicized thoughts, the melodrama-complete with CAPSLOCK and multiple exclamation points!!!!! Oh god, it hurts. But, it’s also great to look back to see how far I’ve come.
I once had a boss who used capslock and exclamation marks in her messages to the staff. She was really nice, but I always felt yelled at when I read one of her notes... ;-D
Your comment about character's flaws being sometimes more interesting, reminded me of an article I read about the tv show, Riverdale, based loosely on the Archie comics. The poster reviewed each character and why they are liked, and when it came to Archie, she said that Archie's main character driver is that he will almost always make the worst decision possible. As I watched the last season, I began to see what she was saying, and at first I was annoyed, but I have to say, it kept him from being boring. He left the love of his life, slept with his music teacher, took up boxing illegally, tried to join his girlfriend's father's mafia business, tried to kill him, was stopped by someone else, went to prison, tried to escape, did escape, finally got exonerated, and went right back for help from the mafia guy, who ended up killing a person at his boxing club, then he almost betrayed his girlfriend, was going to, until Betty called it off. It's almost hilarious. All the time, I was really focusing on Betty and Jughead, I seriously want that jughead hat, and here to the side was this trainwreck of a person who actually did make the show interesting. I don't think I'd ever write anything like that because I find it super irritating, but now, I think I would because it can also be very funny, and actually open up a new way to write. Great video, Shaelin. I've added it to the writer's secrets and tips playlist, where a lot of your videos end up! Have a great day.
My dear Shaelin, I have enjoyed watching you bloom as a writer over the last few years. I am three times your age and would like to defend your youth self. As the good book says," when I was a child I thought as a child, as a (man) I put away childish things." As a retired teacher, you have shown both dedication to craft and an applaudable hunger for instruction. Take time to appreciate the quality of your early works and the journey you are on. I am saving a section in my personal library for many titles from you. Thank you for taking us along with you. Much love, Katie
I agree that I've struggled with the realism before, and then I've gone the other way too and had things be completely unrealistic. I've been working on concrete detail now because I'm rereading my novel and am realizing how much of it I was missing. All thoughts in italics is TOO CLOSE TO HOME. "I'm easily mortified by my own existence" 😂. Great video Shaelin!
I used to believe that I should write only what I know. Once I was challenged to start writing stories about subjects that I didn’t know much about, it opened me up to a world of research and different ways to express myself in writing.
Hi Shaelin! I have read few of your short stories(my favourite one is Cherry and Jane in the garden of Eden) and I adored your writing style. Also your recommendations have been a great help for my improvement in writing. When I started writing I use to write a lot of poems. With progress,I got interested in short fictions. At the beginning I use to write in first person's point of view as it seems more convenient for me. Then I moved out of my comfort zone and started writing in third person's point of view. I always tend to put a lot of description which provides boredom to the readers. Also I struggled with dialogue. But I took few dialogue courses from Reedsy, which changed my understatement about Dialouges. I appreciate you a lot and your videos are truly needful. Love you💕
Shaelin, this was a delightful video. I have grandchildren your age (and older) and, trust me, "mortification" knows no age limit. You just learn to accept it a bit better. I'm working on my first serious book and have committed several of the same mistakes - so LOTS of rewriting going on. Quite honestly, the biggest misconception I had was that it would be simple to write using young protagonists - because I was young once. My daughter's first comment upon reading an early draft was that the character's style of dress and speech were "fine" if my story was set in 1980 (it's supposed to be current). She suggested I talk to my granddaughters for a more contemporary take on today's young women. 😊
i once read a short story online where the protagonist's love interest was dying in a hospital. they had a mutual friend who was an editor in a serialized comic. he told the love interest the ending of the story. that made me cry the most. it was literally a sentence of telling, but it hinted at that they both knew that the love interest wouldn't be there to read it
I REALLY struggle with dialogue too. For me I don't know how to make my characters talk in the first half of the story before the conflict really starts to heat up besides talk about information.
Great video! This is my favourite RUclips channel on writing bc Shaelin actually talks about her own relatable writing experience as opposed to the 1000 other channels which give formulas and "advice" which is usually super off base. I was literally reading a book on scene structure the other day and the author said that a lot of people 'forget to add filter words' aaaaaaaaaaa
I'm definitely guilty of putting way too much weight on realism, including "realistic dialogues". I didn't want to make a single scientific error, a single unaccounted plothole or a misplacement of a character in place or time, even stuff like making sure all my characters had enough opportunities to eat and drink for sustenance, even if offscreen lol. I had to know what everyone was doing at every point, and if it's realistic for them to do that thing for that amount of time offscreen. I also kind of obsess over the 3rd person POV and want the narration to be as "objective" as possible. At times my paragraphs look more like stage directions... :((
You actually counted all mistakes that most newbie writers make. I had some really embarrassing misconceptions about writing when I was, like, 25 y.o. And now I'm in my 30s and still make mistakes. It's okay, this is how we learn.
I didn't know that editing is a thing. I just assumed that you write a book from the beginning to the end and never ever go back and change something. I don't know why I thought you couldn't? Not surprisingly, I never finished a book I started.
First person present tense is very, very difficult to pull off. I don't know why so many young writers start with that! The psychic distance of third is much more forgiving. Excellent video! Good luck with your writing.
They tell you if you do not force yourself to write every day, often with a minimum word count, you will never finish. That is blatant balderdash. I am resonate with that and many other things you have said. Thank you for an encouraging and realistic video!
As far as likable characters, I wrote my MC in such a way that he shines a mirror on the reader. A reader who thinks he's a bad person is likely someone who tends to be influenced by the superficial. Only those who look deeper can see how much he actually cares for people and how very intelligent he is. Unfortunately, I've had some DNFs because some didn't understand him. It is what it is.
For a long time it didn't occurred to me that you can just skip the boring parts of life. My earlier novels are full of people walking from one place to another, or doing groceries...
Don't be too hard on yourself. Most individual's pre-fontal cortexes don't activate until their mid-20s, and take another decade to develop and mature. So, you likely have many years yet of being able to change your mind about a variety of things, especially those you think about a lot. By the way, this video's background wallpaper reminds me of a Tana French book cover, but a lot more regular and organized.
You always share useful information. Your humility and courageous honesty give me courage to just write and learn from the writing process itself. Thank you.
You are so young and inspiring! 😍 I only started writing when I was 40 years old. I write in portuguese, the language of José Saramago (Nobel laureate in literature) and many other good authors.
Haha, this was so fun to watch! I definitely did the ellipses thing as well (still do to some extent ugh) - I even had a phase when I thought writing down vignettes of things I observed in public made for interesting 'high' literature even when there was absolutely no story in it...
I would definitely read normal human life observations in prose. Even if whole book was just that I'm the one who enjoys it so don't be so harsh on yourself from past or people who write this kind of literature because there's a niche for everyone!
Could you give more context/explanation for how the narrator is the protagonist voice? I've never viewed it that way and I'm not certain how to? Also the "all thoughts in italics" 😂 I've read some stories that completely confused me without the italics, but I agree that it's not always necessary; I suppose I hadn't dwelled on that idea enough?? Thanks for pointing it out! I was so amused by your spiel about this but!! In younger Shaelin's defense, some thoughts are more subconscious so it makes sense that you'd register some thoughts as needing italics and some as simply being part of the story. I loved hearing your misconceptions!! I think my biggest one was the realization that sometimes a story does better not having a moral. Like... in order for me to write I always had to give it layers upon layers of things that make it interesting and deep. I don't disregard that those things are beneficial and important, however, I would sacrifice interesting plot for the sake of psychological depth. It made me realize that sometimes a story is just as wonderful or beloved by how interesting it is, not deep. I've always had the best stories when I'm having fun with it, and since I know very well how to make it deep, it took me a while to realize I can't just make it deep and not create an interesting story as well. I guess in essence my misconception was that a good story must have obviously layers, but rather than focusing on how deep we can get, the most superficial is what makes the story seen and known. The shallow parts are equally as important as the rest of it. Thanks for this! I think asking "is this interesting?" Will be a tremendous help in my writing from here on out.
OH Another misconception of mine; It's not okay to humor yourself and sacrifice your otherwise good story. I had [still do, I'm sure] sUCH a bad habit of describing things or using phrases that made me snicker/laugh but were otherwise incoherent to readers. So... writing a story for yourself is fine but if you expect to share it/actually have a good book you cannot constantly be humoring yourself to the point it stunts the reading and or messes up your story. I always thought I didn't take it too far but when a friend editing a short story of mine she called me out hardcore for that, and I realized that it isn't always the best option to poor yourself into a story. Unless that's the plan, you actually can hinder your writing by putting too much of your voice into it, particularly if your language or normal language is... weird😂 Similarly, I had to learn that descriptions are irrelevant; get to the point. I thought it was good to describe everything to set the scene and such, but I had to learn that realistically you only do that for important scenes. Which, again, it's just "get to the point" in everything. Yeah all of these things are good/fine in moderation, it just took me a while to realize that purpose and moderation is extremely important.
I actually don't even remember when I last read a book with italicised thoughts. I think that's more common in YA and first-person, and I usually read adult third-person stories. I know King uses it though, but he only italicises direct thoughts. Not all of them.
I highly recommend the short story "A Village After Dark" by Kazuo Ishiguro (it's on the New Yorker website and also episode 53 on the New Yorker Fiction podcast). It's a great example of the first person done properly
You've definitely had an impact on my writing. The other day I needed to write a new POV, and I was like "alright, this bitch is gonna be UNHINGED let's see how that goes" and I just blasted out a chapter because it was so fun to write! Thanks for teaching me the value of unhinged characters!
Shaelin, It is wonderful how your writing has has improved and developed over the years. When I was younger, I used to write in first person because I had the idea that I could write a more accurate story by becoming the protagonist. I now mainly write in third person because I find it really close to my style as an author. My award-winning short story, Ambition and Rejection is actually in third person point of view. Through writing, I have also learned the importance of all of my characters having a distinct voice. I rather enjoy writing flawed characters and I think all of my characters can be both likable and unlikable. I have always used descriptive language for setting and I believe it results in vivid and more clear writing. I used to often struggle with dialogue and I added a great many unnecessary conversations. Your videos bring such comfort and bliss. I love you
As a roleplayer I find myself bouncing back and forth with past tense and present tense. Sometimes I feel like writing present tense might be a bad decision because of the whole "passive voice" issue. I think it is just easier to slip into passive voice. But on the topic of the thoughts Ive found that weaving the subconscious thoughts into the narration functions well and conscious thoughts go into italics to represent that inner monologue.
I don't know if I had that many misconceptions, other than the time it took to write a book. XD Probably because I've been an avid reader since forever. But I certainly had problems. Like head-hopping isn't the same as POV-shifts, I don't need to state the obvious - like that the only two people in the room look at each other when they talk - I don't need to give the same information several times but I can trust the readers to get it, and I don't need to say "he/she thought/said" all the time. It's kinda obvious most of the time who's talking or thinking.
I can understand how you might have thought 1st person was more immature because YA is flooded with 1St person, and this gave me a vaguely familiar feel. And i read so much YA i got 1st person burnout. (Especially first person “tough” girl) Also, in my early writing character development was 1. Do the have parents (nope, not really) 2. Are they ill? 50/50. If not they still faint dramatically at A KEY POINT. 3. Are they mysterious. I rode that wave so hard my characters dripped in mystery and got it all over the rugs. 4. Forget everything else and make the beautiful. Or better, Mysterious Dark Haired Mysteries with Mysterious Devilish Smiles that are Beautiful and don’t know it which makes them More Mysterious.
Thanks for publishing. You are very productive and your content is useful. This video is so refreshing as when I think back to my first drafts I am so embarrassed but there is no real need to be as it's about learning. Easy to say hard to do.
I honestly don’t stray away from italics depending on the situation. If the reader has to keep the information and the change in perspective straight, I was always encouraged in my program to do what the piece needed to help the reader. Plus, manga-ka do this all the time to indicate speech versus internal thoughts because of the limitations of the medium
The biggest thing I didn't get up to this point was probably run-on sentences, because I was taught in school that you couldn't start a sentence with "and", "or", "because", or "which" , or else you'd end up with a fragment, which meant I would end up with insanely long sentences like this one.
I think the misconception about likeability varies with the books we read. If we read a lot of likeable characters then we internalize them as the normal. For me, it's different. It inclines more on anti-heroes. Protagonists that is not likeable. Ex: -Gone Girl -Prince of Thorns, Mark Lawrence -Prince of Nothing, R. Scott Bakker They have unlikeable heroes.
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I do actually enjoy prose that incorporates the redundancies and imperfections of natural conversation. Especially in YA contemporary. It helps immerse me more in the story. Especially with young protagonists. If they are too articulate it can feel out of place
I agree with you on the character's not having to be likeable. I do think that their rationale or way of functioning has to make 'sense' though, especially if they clearly unlikable. Like I would totally read an unlikeable character if they were interesting and in some way I understood their view of the world and why they do what they do (even if I don't agree with it) but of someone is just constantly doing horrible things and I have no idea why or how it benefits them, then it just becomes frustrating. For me there *has* to be some level of logic or just coherence to their actions that relates to who they are and their characterization. I've read stories with characters who just kept hurting the people around them, but there was very little rationale, and I had no idea why the character was doing the things they were doing. It made them feel 2 dimensional. I feel the root of a lot of this comes down to how good the characterization is - if your character has an interesting personality, psyche, way of viewing the world, and is just all around developed and makes decisions that line up with who you've established them to (or deviate in meaningful ways) then it's satisfying. If their 'likeable' or 'unlikeable' for no clear reason, it's boring of frustrating.
I used to think all characters had to always make the right decisions and the only reason they failed was that the bad guy stepped in not because the hero messed up. It's kinda like the likeable thing except I just thought you shouldn't write them unless they are a good example.
2:44 First time hearing this. I remember a comment which I vaguely remember emphasizing realism as the goal of storytelling on my story with a princess MC hurt my teenaged, fragile self that I thought of quitting. Hearing this about realism and storytelling, was a first that it was too good to have been said.
I had a problem with long paragraphs; used to think that I had to write as much as possible instead of simply letting my message and plot flow. You can hit several sweet spots emotionally when being objective as needed, thinking about the right words and tone.
When I first started writing, I totally messed up on the "show don't tell" part. And I told EVERYTHING. I thought every single detail, every thought, every feeling, every flower on the way home, was important. If I wrote my current books like that, they'd have the length of Tolkien books with only 1% of their quality. Even I wouldn't want to read that. xD
I didn't know that head hopping was a thing. Nor that it was something you weren't supposed to do. So my early novels are chock full of head-hopping. 😂
Agreed. Brandon Sanderson does it a lot, and I personally quite like it. It's not necessary in 1st person since the entire narrative is their thoughts, but it works well in 3rd person limited.
I did the thought in italics like thing when I wrote fanfic. I even added apostrophes with it, even thought everything I did, except maybe a chapter here and there, was in 1st. Now that I've started writing I'm hoping to publish someday, I've dropped that. We all gotta start somewhere!
The funny thing is a lot of writers who started super young have a bunch of these things they did that they thought were great ideas (for me, I used to write "introductions" that were just infodumps about the character appearance and life and stuff. Yikes), but a lot of us also read a ton. And it's not like those books did that thing we did so like.... Where did we get that idea? It's weird.
I still struggle with this... but I used to think I had to fit as many plot twists as possible in a story. Every chapter, heck every page. I try to control that urge and see if things make sense, but I still cringe. Also when I thought the thesaurus was my best friend and I needed an obscure or longer word for literally every word I wrote. 0.0
I’ve been writing this story for a long time and I just feel like it’s not going anywhere but people tell me it’s a good idea and I like the story idea but I’m having a hard time with dialogue to and I can’t for the life of me figure out the overall point of the narrative and how the characters should fully be and how the story should honestly wrap up
I thought historical stories needed to be 100 percent true. I wrote a story about a 1948 trial and went from the court transcripts and what was written in the three newspapers that covered it. Yes the story was true but I missed the juice of the story. Then I reread Serpico and looked into a bit of the history. The book found the juice. After that I remembered two of my favorite films The Best Years of our Lives (1946) and The Great Escape. In the first the opening was totally unlikely that these three characters could meet that way. The entire story though is an excellent portrait of what really happened. The Great Escape is perhaps the most unrealistic telling of the story as far as the true events but it totally captures the audience and the juice of what really happened. That changed me.
I still think natural dialogue is fun and good for the right moments and characters. Its kind of similar to writing a heavy dialect or accent, it won't be for everyone, but some characters and moments can make it go very well. Its just about trying not to let it get in the way of flow. I do take a good hard look at my editing, and find occasionally I've done it far too much, but I never remove the variable entirely, especially if the character is in a panic and wouldn't speak so fluid. Still its not something to be abused, and probably a good idea to keep the more central character charismatic enough (or to even diversify the voice in other ways). While not directly related to an issue, I think one of my favorite dialogue challenges was actually trying to set different rules apart for three central characters in a fable-like short. Each one had dialogue rules that would partially represent their character. One spoke more casual and wore their temperamental tone on the outside, the witty trickster would pontificate in long-winded statements, and could NOT use any contractions at all, and the third spoke only in broken third person. I wish I had the nerve to do something like that again with a bigger story.
Yeah, that's where I'm at on that. "Uhs" and "ums" in dialogue are my guilty pleasure. Probably to a fault. I have the same issue with using italics for emphasis and ellipses. I've been trying to cut back and use it only when it contributes something to the story.
100% guilty of writing character thoughts in italics. Also, I write only in third person now. I like both first person and third person, but I started running into an issue where I'd unconsciously switch from first to third person all throughout my manuscript
I REALLY want to try the first person limited as unreliable narrator. For example Ted bundy telling his story or the joker. Or every politician's interview...
2:45 some bitch on Twitter posted van gough's Night in a cafe with Haixia Liu's art saying "should expose how overrated Van Gogh" is like realism is the end all goal of art and nothing hurt me more to this day
Thank you for the video, you pointed out plenty of my own misconceptions from the past! However, I'm not sure if I entirely agree with the italics (or maybe it's just self-defence on my part). In my WIP, I do this sometimes, but I don't italicize all thoughts, just the ones I want to accentuate, particularly the ones that linger between thought and speech, if that makes any sense? Maybe it doesn't, maybe I should take another look and what I'm doing and review it ;)
Ive always perfered third person for some reason and multiple pov is my go.to for some reason but i do like present tense but im strongest at past tense
Good story or finding the juice of the story is more important than the truth. Often the truth is boring and you can lose the importance of the story. I professor taught me that realistic dialog is edited real dialog. Often because the scene works better when the drama hits the beats but that scene is generally half as long or even shorter than it would be in real life.
“i’m easily mortified by my own existence” ive never identified with something more
I identify. I am constantly mortified by things I have said and done. I heard a writing teacher once say that good writing comes from guilt.
you probably dont give a shit but if you're bored like me atm you can watch pretty much all of the new series on instaflixxer. I've been binge watching with my brother during the lockdown xD
@Kody Rowen definitely, I've been using instaflixxer for months myself =)
@Kody Rowen yea, have been using InstaFlixxer for months myself :D
@Kody Rowen Yea, I have been watching on InstaFlixxer for since november myself =)
Great video! And brave too - really true what you... say... about... um.... dialogue...
I read that line as follows:
Great video! And brave, too. Really true what you say about... um, dialogue. I do think reading subtitles in shows and movies is a good example for how to format dialogue conversations properly.
I used to think that when you tell a story, you have to include *Every. Detail. Chronologically.*
It made it seem like writing was a burden. Little did I know - creating a narrative is doing the absolute opposite.
Oh my god this is another one I totally did but completely forgot about
Oh man, I am so guilty of this haha, once I wrote a scene where the MC visits a manor that sits on top of a great hill. My writing felt as if I described every step she took. I tell you, this was the most painful thing to write and read.
Considering I've committed so many rookie writing mistakes and sins, I do wonder how I never committed this one. Perhaps my influences? My favorite stories tend to not be chronological and I tend to write non-chronological stories so maybe I just lucked out in that regard.
Me, me, me!!! I felt like I was more like a chronist, having to record everything that happens. Because when I skipped something, I was cheating, right?!... ;-D I learned that less is more - and when I am not mentioning how wy characters get from point A to point B, than because it's not important to the story - and not because I was too lazy to write it.
Things became a lot easier after I realized that. ^_^
I did the exact same thing. I wrote everything a character did from the moment they woke up until they lost consciousness again.
I even tried to describe every detail of every street they passed by on their way to the grocery. Which was even more absurd considering that I pay no attention to my surroundings when I walk to the shop myself. I'm just too lost in my thoughts to do that.
My solution was to switch to a character that did more important things at the same time. The exact same time. I did not allow time-skips.
Also, my characters fainted a lot. Because what they can't see, I don't have to describe.
It was much too late when I learnt that writing a story means cutting out everything that is not crucial to what you want to achieve. Much too late.
You consider 18 an embarrassing age for not knowing these things? That bar is way too high! I know published authors who don't know how to use quotation marks for basic dialogue.
To be fair when you're 23, 18 is still a fresh and mortifying memory of the recent past! Maybe in a few years I'll be a bit easier on myself from that era of my life haha
@@ShaelinWrites We were born in the same year and I personally felt dragged when you said at 18.
People learn and try new things at different points in their lives. I didn't start writing until I was 30 and don't think of any of my writing mistakes as embarrassing, just a learning curve.
I'm 23 I have written a few stories for fun but nothing like super serious, if I tried to write something serious I'm 100% it would be full of rookie mistakes like that... so 18 is supposed to be embarrassing lmao
Shaelin: I use to put all thoughts in italics.
Me, writing a first person present tense who does this exact thing: I feel very called out right now.
That is so relatable about dialogue. I'm still working on this one, but I used to say, "I/He/She paused," way more than was necessary. Or "hesitated". If you include your action or dialogue tag in the middle of a piece of dialogue, the reader already gets a sense of the pause. I don't know why, but it took me a long time to realise this...!
Dialogue tags and body language in dialogues is still one of the hardest things for me. I'm getting better (i.e. I use them less), but it'S a struggle...
I try to put tags where I hear pauses and to describe what the character does during that pause. Some of them have simple nervous tick, some just seem depressed, sighing all the time, but if I understand the person enough, they just do things that make sense
I did the opposite - I made things so mysterious that even I didn't know what I meant, the entire text was subtext for stuff I hadn't even figured out :')
So I thought that the stakes in all my stories had to be life or death. As in, if I had an idea that didn't include multiple life threatening situations, it wasn't a good story. I was also pretty sure none of my characters could have both parents.
"I was also pretty sure none of my characters could have both parents."
I tried to follow standard advice on starting with a character profile, MBTI personality type, gamer personality schemes. Later realized that John Truby was right. It's the other way round. You come up with situations, decide how the character would react, and from there build up his profile. Yes, I'm a pantser.
pantsers UNITE!
know how you feel man. im still learning about my characters as i write the story
If you flesh out a character as you tell the story, you'd be less likely to infodump them the first chance you get.
Instead of saying, "he's annoying", because you aren't totally sure, you could Instead have him bust into his neighbors house unannounced, imposing himself on his poor neighbors, oblivious to their kind and generous social cues.
"Garbage humans are what I'm about."
Same pinch, Shaelin.
someone who understands me
Every story I wrote when I was younger was set around a young female orphan who's best friend dies and she goes on a misleaded path to get away until she dies at the end.
@A. Maureen Burns it was similar for me and I had never heard about Jane eyre - now I see why I fell in love with the book when I first read it last fall hahah
Ohh I have some misconceptions to share too:
- I thought that what mattered most in a story was just... nice sounding words and sentences. I literally just worried about how I was gonna write something on a superficial level, never really thought about the plot or why and how I was using those words and techniques.
- I also didn't understand the link between a character's personality and their past. It finally hit me when I talked to someone and they suggested I think about their background and how it has shaped them. Of course, you can't link every detail of a character to how they grew up, but there definitely is a lot!
My favorite missconception still is "Say is dead". The ultimate proof why school can't teach you how to write...
I've been writing professionally for 20 years now, and I'm greatly enjoying your videos, here and over at Reedsy as well. Please don't feel bad about your early misconceptions about writing, we've all been there. One of my own misconceptions was the idea that sometimes I needed to add more words to a sentence to make it flow better. Like, "This sentence needs a few more syllables to really work!" It resulted in a lot of sentences loaded down with unnecessary words, sometimes to the point where it interfered with what the sentence was trying to get across! Another embarrassing misconception of mine came with the use of mottos or platitudes. Instead of writing, say, "you can't fight City Hall," I was under the impression everything had to relate to the character who in whose POV we were, so it would be "he couldn't fight City Hall," which maybe doesn't sound so bad until you realize it begins to pile up into its own brand of awfulness. So again, don't feel bad! It's all part of the journey. None of us are born fully formed writers, as great as that would be. We have to learn from our mistakes. Anyway, keep up the good work!
6:43 - I would argue that formatting is actually fine. There is a difference between prose thought and active internal thought. The latter of which I would say should be in italics.
I don't think it was technically incorrect, but the way I did it was soooo unnatural and clumsy haha. There would just be like random thoughts in italics with no real rhyme or reason to it?? Not sure what my logic was!
Yeah. I write third person limited and I kind of think of it like a thin filter. So I'll usually have my characters thoughts expressed through that thin filter that allows me to feel more free with my writing, but occasionally I have have a specific thought that I rip the filter away from. I usually do it like (and this is just a random example)
_Yes,_ she thinks, _I do, I do, I do._ Ect. Which I feel gives more...power? To the sentence.
Putting thoughts in italics can definitely be done in a sloppy hap-hazard way though.
When I write third person reflective, I find I need to delineate between the thoughts of my older, more mature narrator vs the thoughts of his younger self.
Since the the younger guy is the protagonist and I want my readers to most psychically align with him, I offset those younger thoughts in italics...
I suppose I could also use thinker attributions, but italics feels better for this story!
I wasn't expecting to see you here!
I think those (even writers and wannabe writers) believe that writing and writing novels isn't really as HARD as it is. Or that it's more about persistence and commitment and if you just DID IT, you'd have a good novel. LOL. It's a skill and a muscle and ya gotta break it down and build it up. But a lot of these things you point out I too had those same misconceptions at some point or another. I love this! We all need to be more honest about the reality of writing without self shaming ourselves in memes over it. 😂
oh my god this is some relatable content!! As a young writer I definitely equated the ability to finish a novel with the ability to write well, and slowing down to focus more on craft rather than putting all my effort into merely getting to the last page definitely would have helped me learn more effectively.
My second worst misconception was that I had to be as good as the classic writers. Here kid, write something as weird and mean and sad as Guy DeMaupassant's "Mother Sauvage." Try to do sci-fi/romance/religious allegory as well as Hawthorne's "Rappaccini's Daughter." My worst misconception is that if I didn't achieve greatness in my first draft, then I sucked, and that led to writer's block for years as I critiqued myself into silence.
When I read what I wrote as a teenager, it actually hurts. The ellipses, the italicized thoughts, the melodrama-complete with CAPSLOCK and multiple exclamation points!!!!! Oh god, it hurts. But, it’s also great to look back to see how far I’ve come.
I once had a boss who used capslock and exclamation marks in her messages to the staff. She was really nice, but I always felt yelled at when I read one of her notes... ;-D
Your comment about character's flaws being sometimes more interesting, reminded me of an article I read about the tv show, Riverdale, based loosely on the Archie comics. The poster reviewed each character and why they are liked, and when it came to Archie, she said that Archie's main character driver is that he will almost always make the worst decision possible. As I watched the last season, I began to see what she was saying, and at first I was annoyed, but I have to say, it kept him from being boring. He left the love of his life, slept with his music teacher, took up boxing illegally, tried to join his girlfriend's father's mafia business, tried to kill him, was stopped by someone else, went to prison, tried to escape, did escape, finally got exonerated, and went right back for help from the mafia guy, who ended up killing a person at his boxing club, then he almost betrayed his girlfriend, was going to, until Betty called it off. It's almost hilarious. All the time, I was really focusing on Betty and Jughead, I seriously want that jughead hat, and here to the side was this trainwreck of a person who actually did make the show interesting. I don't think I'd ever write anything like that because I find it super irritating, but now, I think I would because it can also be very funny, and actually open up a new way to write. Great video, Shaelin. I've added it to the writer's secrets and tips playlist, where a lot of your videos end up! Have a great day.
i was today years old when it was first presented to me that not putting thoughts in italics was an option
My dear Shaelin, I have enjoyed watching you bloom as a writer over the last few years. I am three times your age and would like to defend your youth self. As the good book says," when I was a child I thought as a child, as a (man) I put away childish things." As a retired teacher, you have shown both dedication to craft and an applaudable hunger for instruction. Take time to appreciate the quality of your early works and the journey you are on. I am saving a section in my personal library for many titles from you. Thank you for taking us along with you. Much love, Katie
This is so lovely, thank you!
LOVE this video and also your SHIRT
the shirt has really been resonating with people
I agree that I've struggled with the realism before, and then I've gone the other way too and had things be completely unrealistic. I've been working on concrete detail now because I'm rereading my novel and am realizing how much of it I was missing. All thoughts in italics is TOO CLOSE TO HOME. "I'm easily mortified by my own existence" 😂. Great video Shaelin!
Honestly glad to hear these seem to be normal struggles haha!
I used to believe that I should write only what I know. Once I was challenged to start writing stories about subjects that I didn’t know much about, it opened me up to a world of research and different ways to express myself in writing.
Hi Shaelin!
I have read few of your short stories(my favourite one is Cherry and Jane in the garden of Eden) and I adored your writing style. Also your recommendations have been a great help for my improvement in writing. When I started writing I use to write a lot of poems. With progress,I got interested in short fictions. At the beginning I use to write in first person's point of view as it seems more convenient for me. Then I moved out of my comfort zone and started writing in third person's point of view. I always tend to put a lot of description which provides boredom to the readers. Also I struggled with dialogue. But I took few dialogue courses from Reedsy, which changed my understatement about Dialouges.
I appreciate you a lot and your videos are truly needful. Love you💕
So kind of you, thank you!
Shaelin, this was a delightful video. I have grandchildren your age (and older) and, trust me, "mortification" knows no age limit. You just learn to accept it a bit better. I'm working on my first serious book and have committed several of the same mistakes - so LOTS of rewriting going on. Quite honestly, the biggest misconception I had was that it would be simple to write using young protagonists - because I was young once. My daughter's first comment upon reading an early draft was that the character's style of dress and speech were "fine" if my story was set in 1980 (it's supposed to be current). She suggested I talk to my granddaughters for a more contemporary take on today's young women. 😊
i once read a short story online where the protagonist's love interest was dying in a hospital. they had a mutual friend who was an editor in a serialized comic. he told the love interest the ending of the story.
that made me cry the most. it was literally a sentence of telling, but it hinted at that they both knew that the love interest wouldn't be there to read it
great stuff. i like your honesty. i think honesty is important even if embarrassing. it's a human trait that translates into writing very well
I REALLY struggle with dialogue too. For me I don't know how to make my characters talk in the first half of the story before the conflict really starts to heat up besides talk about information.
clicked for the writing advice, stayed for your personality
Great video! This is my favourite RUclips channel on writing bc Shaelin actually talks about her own relatable writing experience as opposed to the 1000 other channels which give formulas and "advice" which is usually super off base. I was literally reading a book on scene structure the other day and the author said that a lot of people 'forget to add filter words' aaaaaaaaaaa
I'm definitely guilty of putting way too much weight on realism, including "realistic dialogues". I didn't want to make a single scientific error, a single unaccounted plothole or a misplacement of a character in place or time, even stuff like making sure all my characters had enough opportunities to eat and drink for sustenance, even if offscreen lol. I had to know what everyone was doing at every point, and if it's realistic for them to do that thing for that amount of time offscreen. I also kind of obsess over the 3rd person POV and want the narration to be as "objective" as possible. At times my paragraphs look more like stage directions... :((
You actually counted all mistakes that most newbie writers make. I had some really embarrassing misconceptions about writing when I was, like, 25 y.o. And now I'm in my 30s and still make mistakes. It's okay, this is how we learn.
The thoughts-in-italics remind me of what you do in writing role play games online. It's actually a common rule there :')
I didn't know that editing is a thing. I just assumed that you write a book from the beginning to the end and never ever go back and change something. I don't know why I thought you couldn't? Not surprisingly, I never finished a book I started.
I definitely invited all that melodrama into my novels. Because how can it be bad if the readers see aLL THESE EMOTIONS, right?
This was also my logic !!
First person present tense is very, very difficult to pull off. I don't know why so many young writers start with that! The psychic distance of third is much more forgiving. Excellent video! Good luck with your writing.
They tell you if you do not force yourself to write every day, often with a minimum word count, you will never finish. That is blatant balderdash. I am resonate with that and many other things you have said. Thank you for an encouraging and realistic video!
As far as likable characters, I wrote my MC in such a way that he shines a mirror on the reader. A reader who thinks he's a bad person is likely someone who tends to be influenced by the superficial. Only those who look deeper can see how much he actually cares for people and how very intelligent he is. Unfortunately, I've had some DNFs because some didn't understand him. It is what it is.
For a long time it didn't occurred to me that you can just skip the boring parts of life. My earlier novels are full of people walking from one place to another, or doing groceries...
Don't be too hard on yourself. Most individual's pre-fontal cortexes don't activate until their mid-20s, and take another decade to develop and mature. So, you likely have many years yet of being able to change your mind about a variety of things, especially those you think about a lot.
By the way, this video's background wallpaper reminds me of a Tana French book cover, but a lot more regular and organized.
this is literally such a mood I LOVE IT
You always share useful information. Your humility and courageous honesty give me courage to just write and learn from the writing process itself. Thank you.
You are so young and inspiring! 😍 I only started writing when I was 40 years old. I write in portuguese, the language of José Saramago (Nobel laureate in literature) and many other good authors.
Haha, this was so fun to watch! I definitely did the ellipses thing as well (still do to some extent ugh) - I even had a phase when I thought writing down vignettes of things I observed in public made for interesting 'high' literature even when there was absolutely no story in it...
I would definitely read normal human life observations in prose. Even if whole book was just that I'm the one who enjoys it so don't be so harsh on yourself from past or people who write this kind of literature because there's a niche for everyone!
Could you give more context/explanation for how the narrator is the protagonist voice? I've never viewed it that way and I'm not certain how to?
Also the "all thoughts in italics" 😂 I've read some stories that completely confused me without the italics, but I agree that it's not always necessary; I suppose I hadn't dwelled on that idea enough?? Thanks for pointing it out!
I was so amused by your spiel about this but!! In younger Shaelin's defense, some thoughts are more subconscious so it makes sense that you'd register some thoughts as needing italics and some as simply being part of the story.
I loved hearing your misconceptions!!
I think my biggest one was the realization that sometimes a story does better not having a moral.
Like... in order for me to write I always had to give it layers upon layers of things that make it interesting and deep. I don't disregard that those things are beneficial and important, however, I would sacrifice interesting plot for the sake of psychological depth. It made me realize that sometimes a story is just as wonderful or beloved by how interesting it is, not deep. I've always had the best stories when I'm having fun with it, and since I know very well how to make it deep, it took me a while to realize I can't just make it deep and not create an interesting story as well.
I guess in essence my misconception was that a good story must have obviously layers, but rather than focusing on how deep we can get, the most superficial is what makes the story seen and known. The shallow parts are equally as important as the rest of it.
Thanks for this! I think asking "is this interesting?" Will be a tremendous help in my writing from here on out.
OH Another misconception of mine;
It's not okay to humor yourself and sacrifice your otherwise good story.
I had [still do, I'm sure] sUCH a bad habit of describing things or using phrases that made me snicker/laugh but were otherwise incoherent to readers.
So... writing a story for yourself is fine but if you expect to share it/actually have a good book you cannot constantly be humoring yourself to the point it stunts the reading and or messes up your story. I always thought I didn't take it too far but when a friend editing a short story of mine she called me out hardcore for that, and I realized that it isn't always the best option to poor yourself into a story. Unless that's the plan, you actually can hinder your writing by putting too much of your voice into it, particularly if your language or normal language is... weird😂
Similarly, I had to learn that descriptions are irrelevant; get to the point. I thought it was good to describe everything to set the scene and such, but I had to learn that realistically you only do that for important scenes. Which, again, it's just "get to the point" in everything.
Yeah all of these things are good/fine in moderation, it just took me a while to realize that purpose and moderation is extremely important.
I actually don't even remember when I last read a book with italicised thoughts. I think that's more common in YA and first-person, and I usually read adult third-person stories. I know King uses it though, but he only italicises direct thoughts. Not all of them.
I highly recommend the short story "A Village After Dark" by Kazuo Ishiguro (it's on the New Yorker website and also episode 53 on the New Yorker Fiction podcast). It's a great example of the first person done properly
You've definitely had an impact on my writing. The other day I needed to write a new POV, and I was like "alright, this bitch is gonna be UNHINGED let's see how that goes" and I just blasted out a chapter because it was so fun to write! Thanks for teaching me the value of unhinged characters!
Shaelin, It is wonderful how your writing has has improved and developed over the years. When I was younger, I used to write in first person because I had the idea that I could write a more accurate story by becoming the protagonist. I now mainly write in third person because I find it really close to my style as an author. My award-winning short story, Ambition and Rejection is actually in third person point of view. Through writing, I have also learned the importance of all of my characters having a distinct voice. I rather enjoy writing flawed characters and I think all of my characters can be both likable and unlikable. I have always used descriptive language for setting and I believe it results in vivid and more clear writing. I used to often struggle with dialogue and I added a great many unnecessary conversations. Your videos bring such comfort and bliss. I love you
As a roleplayer I find myself bouncing back and forth with past tense and present tense. Sometimes I feel like writing present tense might be a bad decision because of the whole "passive voice" issue. I think it is just easier to slip into passive voice.
But on the topic of the thoughts Ive found that weaving the subconscious thoughts into the narration functions well and conscious thoughts go into italics to represent that inner monologue.
I don't know if I had that many misconceptions, other than the time it took to write a book. XD Probably because I've been an avid reader since forever. But I certainly had problems. Like head-hopping isn't the same as POV-shifts, I don't need to state the obvious - like that the only two people in the room look at each other when they talk - I don't need to give the same information several times but I can trust the readers to get it, and I don't need to say "he/she thought/said" all the time. It's kinda obvious most of the time who's talking or thinking.
I can understand how you might have thought 1st person was more immature because YA is flooded with 1St person, and this gave me a vaguely familiar feel. And i read so much YA i got 1st person burnout. (Especially first person “tough” girl) Also, in my early writing character development was 1. Do the have parents (nope, not really) 2. Are they ill? 50/50. If not they still faint dramatically at A KEY POINT. 3. Are they mysterious. I rode that wave so hard my characters dripped in mystery and got it all over the rugs. 4. Forget everything else and make the beautiful. Or better, Mysterious Dark Haired Mysteries with Mysterious Devilish Smiles that are Beautiful and don’t know it which makes them More Mysterious.
Thanks for publishing. You are very productive and your content is useful. This video is so refreshing as when I think back to my first drafts I am so embarrassed but there is no real need to be as it's about learning. Easy to say hard to do.
I honestly don’t stray away from italics depending on the situation. If the reader has to keep the information and the change in perspective straight, I was always encouraged in my program to do what the piece needed to help the reader. Plus, manga-ka do this all the time to indicate speech versus internal thoughts because of the limitations of the medium
Omggg the italics for thoughts! I di that all the time God I'm not just noticing. Thank you for the great video. Ugh
I love the way u talk to us in your videos hahaha
Loved the content too, made me feel more normal XD
The biggest thing I didn't get up to this point was probably run-on sentences, because I was taught in school that you couldn't start a sentence with "and", "or", "because", or "which" , or else you'd end up with a fragment, which meant I would end up with insanely long sentences like this one.
I think the misconception about likeability varies with the books we read. If we read a lot of likeable characters then we internalize them as the normal.
For me, it's different. It inclines more on anti-heroes. Protagonists that is not likeable.
Ex:
-Gone Girl
-Prince of Thorns, Mark Lawrence
-Prince of Nothing, R. Scott Bakker
They have unlikeable heroes.
💕💕💕Hey hey hey
WOW
SO GOOD.... yuour videos are all so helpful I um, saw one of your more recent videos and loved 💓💓💓💓 it... so ... well , I uh , , Yeah I began looking at your channel page here at youtube. Something always so exciting for me.!!!!!! Isnt it for everyone? Discovering a new channel and seeing years back of new videos you just know are going to be a frighteningly amazing time killer in every way. Well then , ... ummm
So I'm scrolling down through your uploads and was struck by your haircut (for reasons unknown) and just wondered if that was an old or a new style and length? Hahahaha
I know, obsessing over a strangers hair but you deserved it. So with this sudden new curiousity I began choosing your videos not by my usual mode of 'needed info' but instead by visible changes of your hair. Hair and only hair changes........... So again I'm scrolling .... looking over all the videos that you've shared.
Well of course, not all of them as of yet as Ive only........ umm I've only made it this far. To about a year old video.
But, if your dear reader painfully made it this far I wanted to imitate some of the real talk examples she was describing. 😁🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓And yeah she knows what shes talking about. 💓
I do actually enjoy prose that incorporates the redundancies and imperfections of natural conversation. Especially in YA contemporary. It helps immerse me more in the story. Especially with young protagonists. If they are too articulate it can feel out of place
I agree with you on the character's not having to be likeable. I do think that their rationale or way of functioning has to make 'sense' though, especially if they clearly unlikable. Like I would totally read an unlikeable character if they were interesting and in some way I understood their view of the world and why they do what they do (even if I don't agree with it) but of someone is just constantly doing horrible things and I have no idea why or how it benefits them, then it just becomes frustrating. For me there *has* to be some level of logic or just coherence to their actions that relates to who they are and their characterization. I've read stories with characters who just kept hurting the people around them, but there was very little rationale, and I had no idea why the character was doing the things they were doing. It made them feel 2 dimensional. I feel the root of a lot of this comes down to how good the characterization is - if your character has an interesting personality, psyche, way of viewing the world, and is just all around developed and makes decisions that line up with who you've established them to (or deviate in meaningful ways) then it's satisfying. If their 'likeable' or 'unlikeable' for no clear reason, it's boring of frustrating.
I used to think all characters had to always make the right decisions and the only reason they failed was that the bad guy stepped in not because the hero messed up. It's kinda like the likeable thing except I just thought you shouldn't write them unless they are a good example.
2:44 First time hearing this. I remember a comment which I vaguely remember emphasizing realism as the goal of storytelling on my story with a princess MC hurt my teenaged, fragile self that I thought of quitting. Hearing this about realism and storytelling, was a first that it was too good to have been said.
I had a problem with long paragraphs; used to think that I had to write as much as possible instead of simply letting my message and plot flow. You can hit several sweet spots emotionally when being objective as needed, thinking about the right words and tone.
I have always loved dialogue and it's my favorite part of writing!
When I first started writing, I totally messed up on the "show don't tell" part.
And I told EVERYTHING. I thought every single detail, every thought, every feeling, every flower on the way home, was important.
If I wrote my current books like that, they'd have the length of Tolkien books with only 1% of their quality. Even I wouldn't want to read that. xD
I didn't know that head hopping was a thing. Nor that it was something you weren't supposed to do. So my early novels are chock full of head-hopping. 😂
Actually, I put thoughts in italics in 3rd person. It does make things clearer for readers, IMHO.
Agreed. Brandon Sanderson does it a lot, and I personally quite like it. It's not necessary in 1st person since the entire narrative is their thoughts, but it works well in 3rd person limited.
But I do it with first person, is that bad :(
I did the thought in italics like thing when I wrote fanfic. I even added apostrophes with it, even thought everything I did, except maybe a chapter here and there, was in 1st. Now that I've started writing I'm hoping to publish someday, I've dropped that. We all gotta start somewhere!
Great video as always! POV changed the way I write as well, thanks to you 😁
I definitely STRUGGLED writing in 1st person but when I wrote in 3rd person, I didn’t describe or name any of my characters
The funny thing is a lot of writers who started super young have a bunch of these things they did that they thought were great ideas (for me, I used to write "introductions" that were just infodumps about the character appearance and life and stuff. Yikes), but a lot of us also read a ton. And it's not like those books did that thing we did so like.... Where did we get that idea? It's weird.
I also used to think third person and the POV character couldn't be the same. Nowadays I exploit the fact that they can be - a lot
I know I’m here to take some notes, but I like your shirt.
I still struggle with this... but I used to think I had to fit as many plot twists as possible in a story. Every chapter, heck every page. I try to control that urge and see if things make sense, but I still cringe. Also when I thought the thesaurus was my best friend and I needed an obscure or longer word for literally every word I wrote. 0.0
I’ve been writing this story for a long time and I just feel like it’s not going anywhere but people tell me it’s a good idea and I like the story idea but I’m having a hard time with dialogue to and I can’t for the life of me figure out the overall point of the narrative and how the characters should fully be and how the story should honestly wrap up
Craft is one of the most confusing and difficult things in writing for me. This video helped me understand some of it.
6:44 I felt that and I wasn't prepared.
When writing in 3rd person close POV, it is no crime to put character thoughts in italics, and phrased as first person. Makes it easy to follow.
Love this video idea!
I thought historical stories needed to be 100 percent true. I wrote a story about a 1948 trial and went from the court transcripts and what was written in the three newspapers that covered it. Yes the story was true but I missed the juice of the story. Then I reread Serpico and looked into a bit of the history. The book found the juice. After that I remembered two of my favorite films The Best Years of our Lives (1946) and The Great Escape. In the first the opening was totally unlikely that these three characters could meet that way. The entire story though is an excellent portrait of what really happened. The Great Escape is perhaps the most unrealistic telling of the story as far as the true events but it totally captures the audience and the juice of what really happened. That changed me.
The biggest misconception I had was believing that everyone needed a character description.
I still think natural dialogue is fun and good for the right moments and characters. Its kind of similar to writing a heavy dialect or accent, it won't be for everyone, but some characters and moments can make it go very well. Its just about trying not to let it get in the way of flow. I do take a good hard look at my editing, and find occasionally I've done it far too much, but I never remove the variable entirely, especially if the character is in a panic and wouldn't speak so fluid. Still its not something to be abused, and probably a good idea to keep the more central character charismatic enough (or to even diversify the voice in other ways).
While not directly related to an issue, I think one of my favorite dialogue challenges was actually trying to set different rules apart for three central characters in a fable-like short. Each one had dialogue rules that would partially represent their character. One spoke more casual and wore their temperamental tone on the outside, the witty trickster would pontificate in long-winded statements, and could NOT use any contractions at all, and the third spoke only in broken third person. I wish I had the nerve to do something like that again with a bigger story.
Yeah, that's where I'm at on that. "Uhs" and "ums" in dialogue are my guilty pleasure. Probably to a fault. I have the same issue with using italics for emphasis and ellipses. I've been trying to cut back and use it only when it contributes something to the story.
6:10 if some dude in the comments doesn't argue that "All thought should be italic" is true you can change my name
it's not a matter of if, merely a matter of when.
100% guilty of writing character thoughts in italics. Also, I write only in third person now. I like both first person and third person, but I started running into an issue where I'd unconsciously switch from first to third person all throughout my manuscript
I REALLY want to try the first person limited as unreliable narrator. For example Ted bundy telling his story or the joker. Or every politician's interview...
Would love to hear this whole one
Me, 15 minutes before watching this video: Am I using too many ellipses in this story?
2:45 some bitch on Twitter posted van gough's Night in a cafe with Haixia Liu's art saying "should expose how overrated Van Gogh" is like realism is the end all goal of art and nothing hurt me more to this day
6:06 - A 3rd Person narrator can be someone other than the protagonist.
Thank you for the video, you pointed out plenty of my own misconceptions from the past!
However, I'm not sure if I entirely agree with the italics (or maybe it's just self-defence on my part). In my WIP, I do this sometimes, but I don't italicize all thoughts, just the ones I want to accentuate, particularly the ones that linger between thought and speech, if that makes any sense? Maybe it doesn't, maybe I should take another look and what I'm doing and review it ;)
Ive always perfered third person for some reason and multiple pov is my go.to for some reason but i do like present tense but im strongest at past tense
So very good and well-stated. Brava!
That shirt, tho!
2:30 Quality >Realism
3:50 Character Development
Good story or finding the juice of the story is more important than the truth. Often the truth is boring and you can lose the importance of the story. I professor taught me that realistic dialog is edited real dialog. Often because the scene works better when the drama hits the beats but that scene is generally half as long or even shorter than it would be in real life.
Did anyone mention that was a beautiful blouse?
I used to be squeamish about third person too, writing it off as 'distant'.
“Garbage humans are what I’m about.” Love...it! 😀