A Chat on Writing for Yourself
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
- Time is an illusion so literally just do what you want!
RELATED VIDEOS:
→Thoughts on Finishing My First Draft: • Thoughts on Finishing ...
→Managing Critique on Your Work & Implementing Feedback: • Managing Critique on Y...
→My Writing Process: • My Writing Process | i...
→A Chat About Confidence and Imposter Syndrome: • A Chat About Confidenc...
→What I Learned About Writing in 2019: • What I Learned About W...
→BLM petitions, donations, and resources (updating list): blacklivesmatt... / blacklivesmatt...
→Anti-Racism Resource Guide: allyresourcegu...
→Issues in the World (updating): issuesinthewor...
MY SHORT FICTION:
☾I Will Never Tell You This - The Puritan: puritan-magazin...
☾Solarium - Minola Review: www.minolarevie...
☾Barefoot - The Fiddlehead [print only]: thefiddlehead....
☾Wishbone - PRISM international [print only]: prismmagazine.c...
☾Wishbone - video reading: vimeo.com/4200...
☾Cherry and Jane in the Garden of Eden - The Puritan: puritan-magazin...
☾Hold Me Under Till I See the Light - The New Quarterly [forthcoming fall 2020]
☾Beautiful Animal - Room [forthcoming winter 2021]
MORE WRITING TIPS: • Writing Tips
WRITING VLOGS: • Writing Vlogs
WRITING CHATS & DISCUSSIONS: • Writing & Authortube D...
BOOK REVIEWS: • Recent Reads
Check out more writing and publishing videos from me over @Reedsy!: / @reedsy
OUTRO MUSIC: "l u v t e a [acoustic]" by Autumn Keys
SOCIAL
Tumblr: / shaelinwrites
Ask me anything: shaelinwrites.t...
Twitter: / shaelinbishop
Instagram: / shaelinbishop
Goodreads: / shaelin-bishop
"Writing a book so non-controversial that every reader will like it is so boring that no one will like it." Amazing advice!
There are washing machine repair manuals someone can write.
I'm interested I'm doing something so controversial that everyone would hate it.
I struggle with this so much. I constantly worry about these imaginary people who might not like what I wrote. Wanting people to like what I do was also a problem when I was a teacher. I ended up leaving the profession because I got stuck with a principal who was never happy with anything I did. Other praised me, but she only criticized me. One of the things that I constantly have to remind myself is that the reader you should be writing for is yourself. YOU are THE reader. Toni Morrison has a great quote about writing the stories that you want to read, so that's how I've been approaching everything I write lately. The story is always going to be for me first because I might be its only reader, and that is perfectly fine.
Well said.
oh my god, the feedback thing is so true. me and my thesis partner had this idea for our thesis animation, and because we had no vision of our own and were trying to please EVERYONE, we ended up redoing the animatic/storyboard from scratch an insane amount of times while everyone else only tweaked theirs, BECAUSE we tried to take EVERY piece of feedback from 40 different people instead of ONLY the feedback that benefited our vision. We got to the point where we were sleeping less than 3 hours a day and our brains could not generate any more new content and we got so burned out we almost dropped out of college.
If you don't know what you want, you don't know what to fix. 40 different people have 40 different expectations from your work. You cannot make something that pleases all of them, it's physically impossible.
If you don't know what you want, you don't know what to fix
"I don't care if people like my book....maybe that book wasn't meant for you."
That's a relief to me. That means that my 500 page novel on two mold spores sharing their love lives and their existential crisis has a place in this world then.
Id read that, sir or Ma'am.
I'm struggling with a story and after watching this video I realized that maybe I'm not writing it for myself. Thank you for this video.
good luck with your story, I hope it works out!
@@ShaelinWrites Thank you so much!
This is so great Shaelin, and so true. My first book Before I Go to Sleep was written in a state of blissful ignorance, completely for myself, but then it was a huge success (which I am NOT complaining about!) so suddenly all these other people were interested in my second. I found it so hard to navigate that line between writing for me and writing for them, but ultimately have come to understand that (for me at least), the first draft HAS to be written as if no one else is ever going to read it...
The adage, "Write the book you want to read" has been derided as selfish and for I long time associated it with fanfic. Recently I have come to think for it for shorthand for when you bring your true desires to your writing that is fresh ideas come from. Feedback is to getting new eyes on a work that the writer by virtue of the nature of the craft can never have; we know too much.
I honestly can't see why ppl would see that as selfish. Where do they expect ideas to come from? Authors not being able to read the book they crave so they write it instead.
Holy shit. Your talk about people pleasing.........ME. I feel that. And I understand you. I still struggle with it. And, on another but related note, this video is soooo helpful. You have no idea! Thank you, as always!!
yesterday I read your short storey Cherry and Jane in the Garden of Eden and it was soooooo good! I never really expect youtube writers to be that great, but i was enchanted.
Ahhh thank you!! So happy you liked it!
I read it too! It was fantastic. Great work Shaelin!
I really needed to hear this...I’ve been paralyzed by fear and anxiety about being “good enough” for others so much recently, when really it does not matter at all
Write a story you would want to read yourself. I hate it when I want to read something that doesn't exist no matter how hard I look. Sometimes you gotta take matters into your own hands. There will be others who want to read it too, they'll find you.
Me too.
this is exactly what i’m struggling w
Off topic but I love that jumper
Thank you. I'm happy to see a writer who could express this philosophy genuinely esp nowadays.
So far I’ve read Wishbone and I will never tell you this and I just want to say that I am in awe. I love your writing❤️
The person that taught me most about writing in my life said "Write the book you would want to read." And yes, it is called selfish. But you will never be able to get into the book you're writing if you aren't dedicated to the story you're telling. It isn't about "I'm doing it for myself cause only I matter". It is doing it for yourself cause that way you will be the happiest and most satisfied with the end product.
The person that taught me the most about taking feedback said "Shut up and listen and take notes. Then when you are revising think about all of the feedback and see what aligns with your vision of the story. I personally take around 30% of all feedback."
And if it is well enough for Hugo Award winning writer Brandon Sanderson, I'm pretty sure it's good enough for me.
It's taken lockdown for me to finally get some perspective on my writing. I took to poetry, creating just for myself in a way that was almost like a therapy. And writing without caring what a potential future imaginary audience might think was liberating beyond the telling of it. I used to write for myself but got lost in the 'hustle' of building my writing into a career, starting projects that I wasn't as passionate about but were more 'commercial' and they ultimately never got finished. So I've gone back to the story I absolutely adore but I've been told a hundred times is wrong (epic fantasy, first person etc) and I'm loving it.
Thank you for having this conversation. I also struggle a lot with this, to the point of screaming “I want to write for myself first!” at the voice in my head that tells me to write to please an imaginary audience. I was trained in school to write so that my ideas are approved by as many people as possible and that mindset really blocked many genuine ideas because they sound “controversial.” I think writing is sharing the writer’s ideas. Sure, they will get different responses and it’s okay. I want to write for myself first, then consider the feedbacks/ potential feedbacks. Not the other way around because these voices can drown out my real voice.
I used to be quite the people pleaser too, and while I can have relapses when I'm under stress, it never even crossed my mind while I was writing my book. It's nowhere near finished, but it's not like a diary, but I put a lot of personal thoughts and viewpoints on paper in it, and the main reason I'm writing it is to have a playing field for my imagination and keep myself busy, so in this context there's just no room for people pleasing.
I do take feedback to hone my skills and style, so the shape it takes may vary, but in the end the content is and will always be mine and mine only.
wow i really needed this video, thanks for the reminder
"Write the book you want to read" is the best piece of advice I ever got. And this video explains why ^^
I feel this video has helped me a lot to sort my thoughts on this matter, thank you ❤️
I'm writing comics and some parts of the story feel very personal to me, and I've been struggling with the thought that they might not be relatable to others at all.
Fearing the main character would look like a self insert, for example, had made me kinda turn her into something else, not like what I envisioned and liked about her at the first place. But I don't think this detour was a total waste of time, in the end it all helped me realize what I DO want for my story that I hadn't even realized before.
I've been really struggling with my writing lately. I'm taking a break from a novel because I'm having a hard time to assess why I'm writing it. I had a very clear view of it, I was very passionate about it...and then I got stuck. Now I'm not really sure what to do anymore. I also feel pretty constrained by trying to be "serious" about writing, and it's very difficult for me to see clearly what makes _me_ feel most alive and fulfilled.
Good luck.
I feel you. I can write a ton just for fun, but then I sat down to work on a "serious project". It was the single longest thing I ever wrote, it took me several months of regular work and it was possibly the most polished I ever did. But then I just stopped.
What was the point? Why did I start writing the thing? I had a clear vision of the finished product in my head. I still have it. I put little bits of information and foreshadowing here and there and I knew how it all connected and where it was all going and I could write the final scene any moment I chose.
But I forgot what made me begin the work. The passion was just not there. It felt like a palace someone built but no one lived in it.
I haven't written a word in it for over a year.
Then I came back, simply because I was ashamed in front of myself for abandoning it. I asked myself again, what made me begin writing?
I had to admit to myself, I did not start it as a "serious project". I began thinking about it seriously when I saw how well the polished chapters read. I read it and I liked it. That was a source of my pride but also hubris. You see, if I could write a good chapter, all of them had to be good. I began thinking about it seriously and worrying about every little detail. Everything had to be perfect. So my playground castle became a palace, but I stopped living in it. I stopped allowing myself to have fun. And each chapter I added had to be perfect and the more there were the more details there was to keep track of. It all had to be consistent with a growing amount of trivia. It was a killjoy.
So I admit it, I started writing just for fun. And I let ambition get the better of me. Then I decided that I want to have fun in my palace again, even if it meant destroying the furniture. I could always fix stuff later and cut out what didn't fit.
So yeah, that's my story. Damn, it felt good to get it off my chest. I guess I basically wrote it for myself, not for you... which is the subject of the video, so I'll let it be.
Good luck with your struggle! I hope you will get through it faster than I did
@@ooi97 I can relate to this a lot, not just with my larger project but with writing in general. Writing helped me a lot once I was "recovering" from another obsession (which stopped being fun and started being toxic)...and then I began to take it a bit too seriously and the pressure piled up. Now I'm trying my best to manage it - to still be serious about writing but also not to forget that I started doing it for myself in the first place.
Thanks for sharing, and good luck to you too!
It's going to be okay. Writing a novel is super hard. I've dropped several stories because my heart wasn't in it. I was writing something generic I knew there would be a market for. In the end I lost interest and had to stop. It still strengthened my writing even though nobody will ever read it. I panic all the time, I get stuck, sometimes I just don't feel like writing. Now that I'm writing a story I'm genuinely passionate about, I get stuck but push through because there's a fire inside, bringing me back to the story. What's important is that you stay calm, take a break, focus on yourself and what you want your writing to be. Don't be harsh on yourself. Stay positive. And remember that you're free to write anything, don't feel locked to a story because you're already in deep. You can do it! 🌟🌟🌟🌟
@@el4242 Thank you for your comment! I'm slowly trying to get back on my feet :)
I like how you talk about writing as a way of communicating rather than entertaining. I think the same way, but unfortunately that doesn't make the feedback process any more comfortable: "why does she not get what I was wanting to say?" can be even worse than struggling with the question "why does he not feel entertained?" I'm at such a point with my novel (about 40 pages in) where I got really helpful feedback on a line or individual scene level, but where the majority of my readers didn't like the concept and would prefer to read a completely different story. But I don't want to tell that other story. Responding to feedback should be picking and choosing. I think your approach, which is also my approach, is the best way to go... Thanks for the video! Got me thinking :)
Thanks for this!
"Fake Hypothetical People" is my new electroclash band of one person. 🐱🐉
debut single out when
@@agentofmalarkey7241 Single drops summer 2021 - "Listen to Your Outer Voice"
@@agentmirv noice
This ended up being very therapeutic and helpful, and, oddly enough, applicable to so many aspects of life. Thanks! :-)
17:03 "As a reader, I don't feel that books are for me. Books are for the author. I don't think I have any right to demand that stories be for me, cater to me. If I don't like how something happens, that is on me. It's not up to the author to have done it differently." Brilliant. I love this. Imagine how enlightened our culture would be if we collectively held this attitude toward creative work rather than... the attitudes we do hold.
Almost a year ago, I started writing a book. It wasn't supposed to be a book. First I wrote a scene, then I added another scene, and it kept going from there. Writing that story might have been the happiest i've ever been.
I've been chasing that feeling ever since, but I haven't found it yet. I was writing to make something worthy of being read, not something that was just for fun. I was focused on being better, not on having fun. And I've found that I can't force an idea I'm excited to write. I really hope that golden idea will come some day and make writing fun again.
3:25 Being overly critical of yourself while mentioning you're too self-critical is peak 2020
I love the sass in the video. Great advice.
"There is no perfect ideal version of my story" ....I need to put that on a poster. With big letters. And glitter.
Yasss Queen I love that she is Sipping on tea while spilling the tea 🍵 🍵🍵
A part of why we Literary Fiction writers write for ourselves is, I think, that we write what's best for the character (not the plot or reader) because our stories are most often character-driven. We have to do what's right for the story, which is what's right for the character, reader and clever plot twist be damned.
Bad readers/reviewers is a problem that have been ignored for too long. We should create for ourselves, great points 👍🏿
This is exactly what I needed, Shaelin. Thank you. I had my first book criticized pretty severely earlier this year, and I let it affect me negatively. The group was, in my opinion, pathologically obsessed with writing for "the readers" and "the publishers" (whoever they are), and anything unconventional or not mainstream (basically everything I aim for) was labeled as "bad" and "don't do." At this point, I'm strongly considering just going monk-mode and taking a year to write solely for myself so I can write the works that are on my heart to write. Technical aspects i.e. where to place commas, and correcting awkward phrasing, I can focus on those things in 2025 when I feel less vulnerable in my work and more confident in my goals.
Thank you for making this video, Shaelin. I'd been so confused about my teleplay because I was so concerned about catering to "everyone in the audience", which is impossible like you said. I also got burned out a couple times because of that. It's been 3 years, but now I know my family is supportive of me and wants me to write it the way I, myself, want it to be - for it to reflect my opinions and values - without worrying about being judged by others. Because there will be people who enjoy it, like my relatives. And those who don't like it aren't "my audience"; and that's okay, as everyone is different! :)
Shaelin, I completely understand the fear of readers not enjoying my writing. I think it is important to write for myself. Often times, I need the validation that my story is well written and I am a good writer, but I certainly need to have confidence in my work. I write because I have always loved storytelling with my magical prose and words are my way of expressing myself. I cannot live without writing, and therefore I need to write. We write to share and that is another purpose of writing, but writing needs to first come from the emotions bequeathed within us. Obviously, I want my writing to be published and I will make that happen. After a work is published, there will still be negative reviews. I remind myself that writing is a form of amusement for me. A writer does not need to be a published author. A writer is someone who writes out of love. I love you
I love this video so muchh! I'm on my second novel now. My first was so scattered because I only cared about what the reader thought. As my prose improved, I realized that communication is a tool used to engage and ultimately (or hopefully :P) delight the reader. Not the other way around.
Wow this speaks to me. I'm just starting to figure out who to write completely selfishly after decades of not doing so. I had a similar problem to you in that I wanted to write for myself but I always figured doing so is wrong and that I'm a bad person. I still feel that way sometimes. Even now as I type this I'm envisioning ways that you, Shaelin, or others who read through the comments you get on this video and wonder, "Wow, I wonder why he feels like that. Maybe he IS a bad person." (Clearly I still have self-esteem issues.)
Thank you for this video. While you didn't really tell me anything I haven't started figuring out for myself, you put it into words better than I could and have given me some validation that I feel I needed right now in this world. 2020 is a mess, and the one good thing that it's done is that it's created a world where I realize that the only way I'm going to succeed with my dreams of becoming a published author that I MUST write selfishly.
And I must maintain a proper sleep schedule so I can kick insomnia. So I'm going to bed now. Thanks again for this video.
Don't let anyone Steal your Joy
When writing my first book, I gave at of thought to possible reader reactions, both as far as characters and world building go. I made it portal fantasy instead of high fantasy because many people told me, a connection to the real world would help sell the book. I had a fairly stereotypical, nerdy teenage boy protagonist, who, in the course of the story acquired magical and technomancer powers. The ancient warrior queen from the magical world, who I had in mind as a protagonist first, got the role of the mentor. I also gave my protagonist a girl from his school as a love interest, which didn't really further the story at all, but more something I thought of as a duty.
In my WIP on the other hand, I write completely selfish, not thinking about possible reactions at all. This time it's science fiction and instead of something more down to Earth the setting has tells the origin story of galactic super-civilisation living on 999 planets orbitting a supermassive black hole with the acretion disc as an energy source. The protagonist is the main inventor behind this stellar wonder and she is a kind of mad scientist who acquires powers related to extra-dimensions. It also subverts (or inverts) the "evil empire - good rebels" trope, as the rebels in that case are terrorists rather than freedom fighters, who would kill trillions for petty reasons.
im simply writing the stories i want and they will either like or hate and i don't mind so long as they read it
I saw the title to this video and was like 'oh, i need to hear this'. You could make a podcast on writing and I would listen to it 100%. Great video, Shaelin ❤️
This is exactly what I needed to hear right now. I've been struggling with the middle of Act 2, because I've got some things in there that I just wasn't sure that the reader was going to want to go through via my MC. But this really made me step back and think. I need to stop worrying about how the reader is going to react to hard things, and just make sure that I'm communicating them effectively the way that I envision the story being told. I've already watched this twice and shared it with my writing group, and I'm sure I'll refer back to it again in the future. Thanks so much, Shaelin! I appreciate your insight.
Thank you so much for this. This is one of my biggest issues, especially because I don't even know what I want to write.
You do make a point, and as Sanderson says in his classes it's more about delivering the promise of your premise than trying to get everyone to like your book. It's true you're a little more constrained in genre fiction and if you want to publish under that marketing label you'll have to think about it in advance, but it's true, -if you don't write for yourself, it's not the same!-
What I've recently decided to do is to write for myself _as a reader_. Previously, I understood writing for yourself as just writing what you most feel like writing, whatever feels fun or satisfying to write next with no care for whether or not the story works, as long as you got something out of writing it - which, while it is fine if you write as a hobby or a self-care practice, might not lead to a very functional story, but to a series of personal fantasies realised. But writing for myself as a reader means I write the books and stories I would enjoy, the stories I want more of on my shelf. That way I'm still writing a coherent book that fits the expectations I'd have for the genre as a reader, but I'm not writing for a generic reader I don't know or for ALL readers of the genre. I'm writing for a reader who is like me, likes the stuff I like, wants the stuff I want. Sometimes I even think of her as a younger me. It might be strange but "writing for myself" makes more sense if I frame it that way.
I'm getting some definite Enneagram 9 Vibes, as 9 myself conflict in general is so much stress that I'd rather say whatever to keep the peace
I thought the same.
I'm happy that I have overcome the worst of it :)
Good luck on your own 9 journey.
I like your writing. I'm more receptive to writing advice if I like the person's writing. I've read stuff by other authortubers that has kinda tainted their advice.
Hello Shaelin,
Quick bit about myself. I rarely get into social media or online interactions but your posts have become a daily part of my life. You are passionate about writing, with genuine beliefs regardless if they differ from mine or anyone else. That has value.'
I write because I write.
I'm in the last stages of self edit in a Fantasy Fiction book. Full time now. Am following the publishing rout because friends and family insisted. Am also excited about challenging the word count taboo and seeing what happens. This genre has that scope and it shouldn't be lost.
When I write, I call it (creating windows) a view into my world, my imagination and I enjoy seeing other peoples worlds through their own style of writing.
As a reader I search for that something different. As a writer I offer that difference. (I hope) But those differences don't come by following market rules, pre set ideas or expected norms. (writing anarchist here) :-)
Constructive criticism is good value, I like to see other perspectives on my work, destructive criticism is someone else's issue, nothing we need to take on. They own it, they can keep it.
I am an absolute pantser, with confidence in my writing. Why? Because I write for myself and for my characters and it works for us. Goal achieved.
Hopefully, it's good enough to share as well. Feedback suggests so.
Speaking of characters, my story is very much written for them, they have a significant say in where the story goes and what their goals are. Not the reader, not the writer, the characters whose lives shape and are shaped by the story.
When I write, I am the story seen through the characters. I don't control the flow. Love it when a character drops something funny into the mix and makes me laugh or just sits back and says. "No. I'm not doing that." I rarely know what is going to happen next. Works for me.
I love your posts and find the names and structures you discuss intriguing. They fit the music and colour that guides my writing.
Better stop before I write another book. :-)
Constructive = interaction. Destructive = background static
Writing for your world is freedom, publishing is sharing, there is no selfish, it's your story, your window.
You are awesome. Great talk.
I stopped writing for ten years because it was impossible to please both the perfectionist me and a bunch of readers whose taste differ from each other at the same time. I had to ditch the pleasing others part entirely before I was able to write again. I am, after all, the only person whose literary taste I know well enough that I can actually really target as an audience.
Has been an uphill battle having this opinion so was happy to find this video.
Oh wow. I feel like this video found me at the exact right time. I've been suffering a bit of writer's block and impostor syndrome and I'm starting to understand why. I'm currently working on a low fantasy story that is partially based on my own childhood experiences, but I've been worried about how to make it appeal to publishers and fit it into the right age bracket and write it in such a way that my target audience will actually be interested in reading it, etc. etc. I've been worrying so much about these things that I have completely lost my own voice in the story. I used to write for me when I was a teenager and it was a simple joy. I need to get back to that.
Life changing writing advice ! Thank you for all that you do !
Basically, you gotta like your creative process.
If you like writing things that you think will terrify people, because you're a sadist and/or masochist (like certain Stephen people), you can do that a lot.
If you like structuring stories, you structure them. If you like writing off the top of your head, you do that. Of you don't like getting lost in your own notes, don't make any bleeding notes, who cares!
The quality of your work does not depend on your style. It depends on the amount of passion you put into the work. So do what you love, unless it's killing puppies. Do not touch my puppies!
I woke up in the morning and thought how I'd never get anywhere with my fantasy novel. I saw this, and now I'm motivated to do even better and love my own work even more.
This seriously spoke to me, thank you for sharing ! ❤
I know for a fact that what you’re saying is true because I stopped writing fic for a fandom because I got too scared of how my work measured up to others. I kept writing what I thought other people wanted, and not what I wanted. But then I decided to take a break and work on another fic from another fandom I wasn’t as invested in and I could write so much. I wasn’t stuck. I didn’t care what anyone thought because I didn’t know anyone who would read it and the few people who would probably wouldn’t have anything mean to say. I need to go back to that mindset.
I really needed to hear that, now I know why I've been stuck on my book for so long. Thank you!
Enjoyed your insight and willingness to show your heart. The info you shared took my mind to so many levels I had to pause the video to allow myself time to ponder. I care about the response from others. For me the caring has become a filtering event. It is a spectrum that doesn't always require a judgement. More of an acceptance that we all don't think alike and I really only need to be on the lookout for those things contributing to where I am at the moment. You seem to be developing that skill quite well. Keep posting.
This is such an important video. Thank you for speaking on what truly matters in writing.
I think this advice is absolute gold. When you put it in the perspective of literally no matter what you write or how you write it, not everybody is going to like it, it’s important *you* like it, since you are the one spending the most amount of time, energy, effort, thought, and emotion on it. Thank you for sharing your advice.
I've been writing fanfic for myself for years and lemme tell you all that it took 3 years of radio silence, and kudos from anonymous people before somebody even gave me a comment of "i like this" in all my years of writing.
My point is writing selfishly will give you years of radio silence but the pay-off is self-catharsis.
(but well to be fair I write about age gap relationships, adults worrying about their desk job suddenly dragged into becoming involved in crazy YA fantasy staples and monster erotica. I still recommend writing for yourself!)
"No man knows any story but his own." - C. S. Lewis.
"Trust your story." - Neil Gaiman.
The thing you want for the story is quality. Make it a good story.
Love this!! There’s so much pressure to consider only the reader
Brava shaelin, stick up for yo self and opinions!!!! I am a discovery writer myself and I just adore it ur vids ❤️❤️❤️
Maybe that's a key difference between literary and genre fiction. Genre fiction is more about continuing the conversation of that genre, and literary fiction is more about the singular voice. When I write fantasy I am trying to write a book that people will like for the same reasons that I like reading fantasy, but its never about people pleasing. What you said makes sense then if you're writing literary - you dont need to care if people dont like your vision out of taste, because its your vision, thats the whole point.
This is a great way of putting it!
🙌👏👏🙌
✍️SQUAD
FACTS
Also, Happy PrepTober or Pre-PrepTober
I write for myself too, but in fairness, most writers who write for readers first have a target audience in mind, not "everyone". Anyone who is writing for "everyone" is misguided. I've often worried that my work doesn't fit into any clear genre, and yet, I don't feel that my style is "literary". But I still write what I write. The other issue is more of a positioning and marketing problem for me. I tried to write Romance, but that lasted for one 5k short story. I don't feel it's easy at all, and I have respect for writers who produce quality genre novels, as it's challenging. But I can't do it, and feel a sense of satisfaction. Anyway, great video. So much to consider here...!
that is very true, most writers do have a target audience in mind haha!
Yeah, Shaelin, some great advice here! Have you heard of Peter Elbow? My favourite thing about his pedagogical writing is his thing about leaving the reader completely out of your writing space. You covered this extremely well with this video, and I appreciate it. I mean, in my MFA classes, the teachers actually preached writing for the reader, or at least for the market. As if sales and recognition were the major goals, and writing just a means to that end! To me this is mere dictation. Real art is doing what you personally love/enjoy. That's where the magic happens, methinks!
Bobby
This was a really good video. I think this mindset become much easier to embrace once your work becomes published - you no longer worry if your writing is good enough, and with that, it becomes much easier to not care what others think, because you know you're a good writer.
For most amateur authors though, not caring about what readers think becomes much harder if we don't believe our writing is actually good. I wonder if you relate to this, or perhaps you got to that mindset before you were published. I get the main point is, that shouldn't matter either, and as long as you enjoy your writing it should be good enough for you. It's still great advice.
Hell yeah this is great! Writing for the reader for me was always a confidence thing. Only really recently I’ve felt I got to grips with what I want to write and not feeling constantly stressed about what I ‘should’ be writing, and it totally paralysed me. My novels went untouched but I wrote loads of private guilty pleasure stuff - but why can’t my novels be that too?? Thank u for this, it’s comforting to know even writers you look up to feel the same !! Also it’s a shame there are patronising dudes descending with Opinions on this video even now lmfao.
It seems patronizing dudes with Opinions™ are part of the ecosystem of this channel. They contribute to the biodiversity of the comments section. Though their presence may be unpleasant, they contribute to the habitat by inspiring me to make videos on the multi-paragraph rants they leave, as a bird feeds on mosquitos.
Hey, Shae! I hope you're doing well. I've been busy lately learning more digital art techniques, but I'm slowly getting back to the writing.
Anyway, it's good to see you, hear you---and most of all---learn from you.
👌🤚👋🤜💥🤛😉😊
I was watching one of ur videos and then got the notification that you uploaded, pure magic
It's so relatable when you told about the opinion thing (as we please people; not being able to have an opinion on a topic, and we go based others -- I probably expressed myself bad). Anyway, I thought I was the only one. I got opinions and thoughts, but when it comes to discussing them with people, specially friends, I just go and let them win or something like this haha
(I just needed to comment this)
But this is a great topic on writing for yourself. I've been struggling with this. Thanks for talking about it, you are helping me deal with this problem (since I get my friend's feedback and write based on them -- and I hate it)
I FUCKING LOVE YOU. IM A WRITER MYSELF AND I LOVE EVERYTHING YOU SAID 👑🙌🏼💖
It’s so important to use your own judgement, because it’s impossible-without communication-to know what other people want (and are thinking). The best you can do, is create as you see fit, to your standards, with your goal in mind. Your only consideration for others being that they can understand the message you’re trying to convey (i.e. “Can you see what I see?”).
I kind of suspect that I may be writing at least in large part for myself, outside of family and 3/4 friends no-one has seemed interested. Admittedly I've long since taken the attitude of enjoying the process rather than getting hung up on worrying about being published
Wow, I needed to hear this. I've struggled a lot with this recently and you articulated it really well. I think you have a really good attitude.
as melodramatic as this sounds...this video might become a life changer for me. i'm just the same kind of pathologically unconfrontational people pleaser with a huge insecurity complex, and watching shaelin talk about her process, i realised just how often i am doing this as well. not taking certain turns with a story or characterising a protagonist a certain way because hypothetical future readers might take issue with it (and i'm not referring to respectful, inclusive writing - that's a whole different thing with objective reasoning - i just mean taste); choosing one project over the other because it might be more ~likeable, more ~popular, fall more into common trends.
of course some writers have to do that - particularly if your priority is to sell as many books as possible, make a living, build a career, etc., it might be necessary or safer to choose story elements that are known to be marketable over ones that you like personally but that might turn some people off (and even that is debatable). but personally? i don't have to care about that. of course it would be a dream to be a full-time writer one day, but counting on that slim chance and depriving myself of contentment with the story or enjoyment of the writing process all the while...it's destructive and useless.
so yeah. i'm going to write selfishly. thank you, shaelin.
The only logical way to write is to write for yourself. Because fiction writing (no matter how "genre" your fiction might be) is not a viable source of sustenance for most people. Only a small fraction of the people who write genre fiction make bank. Most fiction writers (both genre and literary) have to do other things to sustain themselves. Even if you one day become a rich and famous author, you'll probably have to spend many years writing for very little money to get there. The ones who hit it big from the get go are unicorns among unicorns. So if you're not making money, and not having fun while writing (coz you're writing for other people), then you'll just burn out. You can either do something because you like it or because it makes you money. Since the money is not guaranteed with fiction writing, you might as well write what you like writing.
exactly !! this !!
Honestly, I think it's all about balance. Most of the story should be about you, but there comes a time to think about the audience.
That's where fanfiction fills the gap if the original story is unsatisfying and needs "fixes" or changes of directions. If your story gets the fanfic treatment, then you're doing a good job.
I think that's the best writing advice ever. Also applies to writing for the editor in mind. I did this with a couple of books and it really killed my spirit. Love your channel!
Thank you.
Seriously.
I needed this more than words can express. The fact that I saw it today, during a conversation with someone on this very issue, feels serendipitous to me. I was supposed to hear it.
Thank you again.
YESSS. Secure your own oxygen mask before assisting others.
You will read it dozens of times before anyone sees it once, if anyone sees it at all.
If you need courage, look at the 1-star reviews of your favorite books. If that doesn't work, embrace their hate and write to annoy those particular readers. And if that works, post a snippet and tag me because I'd love to read it.
The Shaelin character that is the real life you is life's best literary creation: particularly when you break the fourth wall of real time in actual reality with personal asides. Freakin' hilarious. It's also groundbreaking how you have pioneered the simultaneous use of past, present and future tense. First, second and third POV seemingly at the same time too. Shaelin, I think you're your own multiverse.
This is such a perfect video. I also struggle with being a people pleaser. Even as someone who doesn’t want to publish think to myself “I can’t do this because people won’t like it/it’s controversial/it doesn’t fit the typical format”. At this point I try to make it my focus to feed my desire to write and that’s it.
I prefer writing for the reader, to an extent. I'm not going to hold their hand through it but I already know the story and want to share it with others. Specifically, one of my works is written for those with knowledge of horses and the horse world. It's based loosely on me and my friends, experiences we've had and my struggles with mental illness (specifically one that is usually villainized in media). I know my experiences, but I want to write for those like me who never saw their experiences written in a friendly light.
This is too similar to my situation. I've read this point many times before, but didn't understand, I guess. Thank you for this video.
Edit: Yesterday, I was literally thinking that I should come up with a bunch of imaginary people with different personalities(like making a character), then change what I write according to what they like.
I know when I'm writing for myself. The book unfolds like a movie when I'm writing it, and I'm excited to be the one person audience. I'm the director, and I can't wait until the next scene to see what the cast will do next with only a little guidance from me, to point them in the general direction. Their skills as 'actors' comes from my imagination and the inspiration I get and it becomes a feed-back loop. I'm a 30:70 architect pantser so I can absolve myself of this luxury.
I absolutely agree that trying to write something that can please everyone is a bit of a fool's errand, and going back to revise endlessly is not much different from the myth of Sisyphus. Been there, done that, and for the longest time it was this invisible barrier that kept me from writing altogether. The best way to improve your writing is to write, and if you don't do it then you won't improve, and if you don't improve you'll never reach that 'perfection', so it's a pointless cycle. (I'm a perfectionist, not a people pleaser, but I think the struggle is close enough to apply, since the only way to please everyone would be a 'perfect' work and yeah...)
We're not perfect, so what we make won't be perfect either, but it's ours and it's either good enough for us, or it's not and we'll strive to do better next time. Realizing this was the key that ended up freeing me from myself. Obvious in retrospect, not so obvious when you open Word and stare at a blank document for hours before closing it with a sigh.
I think my take from all this is that it is important for a writer to understand their own personality so that they can avoid these kind of pitfalls but also know what they excel at and what works for them. Goals matter too, and writing to market (or for a specific fanbase/demographic) takes a completely different mindset than writing an epic fantasy book trilogy just to prove yourself you can do it. Your goals will shape your work, but they won't change who you are as a person, your experiences, or the kind of tales you're interesting in telling.
The biggest problem I often see however is that a lot of people have a very narrow idea of what writing is and how to do it. There are gardeners, architects, engineers, cartographers, etc, and a lot of them are convinced that their way of writing is the only way or the better one (one example of the many out there). It's a ridiculous notion when you consider just how different everyone's personalities are and how different is what they're trying to achieve. What works for you might not work for me, what works for me might not work for you, and that is totally fine, the important thing is that you write what you want to write.
You're the rightful owner of your work, and you're the one typing the words that bring it to life. Feedback is welcome, but you'll always have the final say.
10:58 is the most iconic takedown on the entire internet
taking down patronizing men on the internet,,,,is what I do
@@ShaelinWrites doing the lord's work
@@rachelwritesbooks it's a tough job but somebody's gotta do it
@@ShaelinWrites every time I see this phrase or any iteration thereof, I always think of the Faith No More song that has this sentiment as a chorus.
@@ShaelinWrites
You got a bf!!
I love this girl.
I just hit this breakthrough yesterday before I watched this video. So what happened with me is I got so caught up in trying to be an author and vlogger and xyz that ig you can say I forgot where I came from. In the beginning I didn’t even want to be an author I just wanted to see if I could write a book. Then it was about making it to the proof copy phase. And that was my original goal because it would mean I actually finished something and I never finish anything. But now it’s been like 4 years or something and I’ve self published 3 novellas for me. Not for people. For me so I can have something left on this earth when I’m gone. “Leaving my mark or of myself? The only thing and somehow I strayed so far from that I ended up putting myself in a position where I couldn’t write and come up with ideas and things of the sort. An about 15 minutes after realizing I ended up with my next idea and I was so happy and relieved.
This video was so relateable, I couldn't stop laughing. Top-teir roast, a five star roasted butternut squash. Twenty minutes of gold.
I’m a really insecure person in a lot of aspects in my life except for my writing. If I think something I wrote is good, no one can convince me otherwise. People can insult my writing and I don’t care.
YES. For me a lot of this was tied up in what I heard John Green say in a video once--that books belong to their readers. That never sat well with me, but for a long time I thought that was because I was being selfish and immature as a writer. Sure, readers can and will interpret your book differently based on their own understanding and experiences, but I don't think the whole "the book's not yours once it goes into the world" mentality is helpful or healthy for writers, at least not for me. It resulted in me doing so much of what you said. Instead of thinking of my stories as a mode of expression and communication, I was sitting there trying to make sure as many readers as possible would think and feel exactly what I wanted them to think and feel. Writing with an imaginary reader over your shoulder sucks all the joy out of the process.
John Green's words had that affect on me too! I think my interpretation has molded over time though, like it can be possible for you to write selfishly and for readers to interpret just as selfishly. Dual ownership of one story can lead to a plethora of perspectives -- I don't think anyone communicates exactly what they mean all the time, no matter the effort, and the same is true with books. As long as a good amount of people seem to get what you were trying to convey, all is well.
@@therealfirelord3359 "dual ownership of one story," I love that
I just rediscovered your channel and this advice is the kick in the keister I’ve been needing to get over the fear of “failure” and finally start writing my novel (well planning and exploring first, haha, but YES WRITING IT). THANK YOU, YOU WONDERFUL HUMAN BEING YOU! NaNoWriMo, HERE I COME (FINALLY)!
Thank you.
I write for me. I have to LOVE my protagonists and their story because there is a specific message I want to convey in each of my stories. And, as you said, there will always be people who don't like the book. There were some books that I absolutely HATED and other readers gave them five stars. If they could give them ten, they would have. So I believe there is a place on the market for every type of author.
I like sassy Shaelin 💓