half these comments are like "yeah i agree with you, Brothership sucks" and half of the comments are like "bruh i wasted 16 minutes of my life with a bad review like yours, delete your video" and some are like actually constructive "yeah, sorry that you didn't enjoy, but i personally disagree"
Says a lot about the kind of people these videos attract: People who're just as low-effort as the person who made the video, not caring enough to really make a point or have a conversation.
@@LuznoLindo he did make somr fair points some fair points. Like the technical difficulty, movement being a bit sluggish, luigi controls be odd in combat especislly with the a and b button, luigi working kinda like an ai which really does make it a chore to keep track, and constant load from the beginning of the battle to the end of the battle which really makes fighting even the weakest enemies annoying as each beginning and end loading takes like 10-15 seconds each do thats 20-30 seconds of waiting for load and factor in how much enemies your gonna face intentionally and unintentionally those seconds adds up into minutes and those minutes can add to hours.
The hammer thing, that's been a thing since Dream Team. The whole "if you hold your hammer too long, it falls" war was lost in 2013. The stat thing was changed for Paper Jam and I guess they decided to keep it for Brothership.
To all the comments who agree with this man...reminder that this dude didn't even complete Lushgreen Sea, aka the first area of the game, pretty sure all other M&L games had the same problem of the first hour or 30 mins of the game having no story until the 2nd act begins where it starts to ramp up, also before ya'll give me that the game holds your hand speech, It can and will kick your ass later on...I would know because not one boss battle after Lushgreen Sea I went without either getting 2 game overs, or get really close to getting one.
One of the biggest things for me is how, like you said, in battle menus, you use A to select options, even for Luigi’s turn, which ends up with me missing my attack 😂
I’ve played through every game in the series and personally? Brothership is an amazing return, granted I actually played the game from start to finish but this game isn’t that bad, while I do understand the pacing and issues with how Luigi works, I think it’s perfectly fine, it’s also fine if you don’t like the game but at the very least finish the game, it does get good, even if it takes many hours, this was an amazing return to the franchise with impressive animations, new visuals, and amazing combat, also the thing about holding your hammer for too long, I’m pretty sure that feature disappeared in Dream Team, and Paper Jam removed the stat boost each time you level up, while I do agree that Brothership should have reverted the change it didn’t introduce it, so I do understand why people have a problem with this game, but calling it trash and disappointing is a bit much, at the very least beat the game first
If you don't like the game that's fair but calling the game a "complete and utter failure" is laughable when you haven't even gotten past the first sea, let alone beat the game
Oof. sorry to hear that you didn't enjoy it. Personally, as someone who has played all of the previous Mario & Luigi games, I've been liking it a lot, and think it's one of the better games in the series, despite having some flaws here and there. I'll give my thoughts on some of the points you made: I'll gloss over the points about the art style and character designs/animations, seeing as those things are very subjective. I will say that the art style took me a bit of getting used to, but I came to enjoy it over time. It has a very cartoon-y look, and I think that works pretty well for the Mario & Luigi series. Maybe the character designs aren't that interesting for some, but they are meant to tie into the whole "electrical connection" theme that the game uses, so it makes sense why they look the way they do. 5:46 I will say that the loading screens can sometimes be a bit longer than I would like, but it wasn't really enough to detract from the game for me. Might just be a personal preference thing, considering that I have seen some others who are a bit annoyed by the load times as well, and I am kind of patient when it comes to things like this. 6:37 I'll be completely honest. I literally did not notice this at all when I was playing. And even though I can see it now, it doesn't hinder the game that much for me. There are other 3D games out there that also use 8-way movement, and while a full range of movement may be preferred in certain cases, I feel like 8-way is still perfectly functional if you take enough time to get used to it. 8:25 You do realize that you specifically jumped towards that platform when it was already moving away from the ledge right? If you jump when it's close, that won't happen. Plus, when talking about Luigi being able to do things in the overworld like break boxes, you're going out of your way to leave him behind, so what do you really expect to happen? Wouldn't it make more sense to just have both Mario and Luigi destroying boxes at the same time anyway? That's certainly more efficient than just having one or the other do it. Would you really prefer that only Mario can do stuff like that, and Luigi just vacantly follows behind doing almost nothing, like in the old games? Like, honestly, he feels far more useful to me than in the other games, and I've rarely had issues with him slowing me down. It feels like, in most cases, I have to go out of my way for him to get stuck. As such, I have a hard time understanding this perspective. The A.I. Luigi may have a few kinks here and there, but I genuinely feel that it makes the game better in certain ways. It makes navigation and interacting with things in the overworld more convenient. Having to individually pluck out turnips with only Mario would've been kind of tedious and I don't particularly enjoy missing a jump with Luigi and having to go back since the bros are always basically glued together in the older games. Plus, it makes Luigi more of his own character that can do his own things instead of basically just being an extension of Mario. 10:48 This has been the case since Dream Team, so seems odd that you would bring it up now, when you already mentioned liking Dream Team and Paper Jam despite their divisive nature. What makes the being able to hold the hammer forever in Brothership a problem if you didn't mind it in those other recent games? You do still have to time your hammer swing, so it doesn't remove all of the challenge. There are plenty of hammer counters in the recent games that I still struggle to consistently time. 11:06 Okay, I'll admit I was mildly disappointed by this. Yes, it's nice to be able to choose a stat to further increase. However, I never really saw it as a big game-changing feature. The older games specifically encouraged you to upgrade everything evenly anyway, since that gets you the most bonus points. Plus, beans and rank-up bonuses already fill a similar role of stat customization. Also, once again, this was a thing in Paper Jam and you never brought that up. Level ups do still definitely matter, as every single stat gets increased each time. Avoid too many enemies, and you'll be doing a lot less damage and taking a lot more damage from enemies later in the game. 11:22 Again, this was how it worked in both Dream Team and Paper Jam. Seems you're really not picking up on a lot of the changes those games made. Also, having the option to choose things other than an extra gear slot only adds to the customization, so I can't see why it's a bad thing. If you want to go for gear slots right away, just like in Bowser's Inside Story, you can absolutely choose to do that, but if you'd like to try something different, you also can do that. I really don't see how anything is lost here. It's just more options to customize your build compared to having one specific upgrade given to you with no other choices. 11:44 I'll admit, the lack of enemy variety early on had me a bit worried, but later in the game, I didn't mind it at all. Having enemies from earlier in the game return later can actually add some more variation to battles, as you never really know when an enemy that you fought earlier will make a re-appearance. This is a problem that can be kind of noticeable during the first several hours of the game, but I felt that the enemy roster gets big enough later on to the point where it's not really much of an issue. I get the feeling that you didn't play that far into the game, because it does keep introducing new enemies that aren't just re-skins, all the way up until the end. It just might not do so quite as quickly as older games used to, probably because it's a lot longer. My first playthrough was around 47 hours, including all the side quests. 13:56 Again, I get the feeling that you didn't play that far. This game's story had some pretty crazy developments later on that really caught me off guard, even as someone who's played all of the previous Mario & Luigi games and almost all of the Paper Mario games. At first, it's kind of slow-moving, but that makes sense. Stories follow a slow escalation in tension, leading up to a climax and a resolution. This game definitely does follow that basic structure. It's just that you might not see a whole lot of it right away, because as I said before, the game's pretty long, so things have to take time to develop. 14:46 This is because each region of the sea follows a theme with its islands. The first sea is even called "Lushgreen Sea", so it mainly being grasslands and forests makes sense. The themes do change up once you reach a new region of the sea after each Great Lighthouse. 15:16 Er... what? None of the side-quests are mandatory. That's why they're SIDE-quests. If you really don't see any point to them, then just... don't do them. Move along with the main story like you want to. They're just there for people who enjoy doing some extra stuff. I'd encourage you to keep playing, because while the beginning of this game is a bit underwhelming, the rest of it more than makes up for it, in my opinion, as it honestly reaches heights that no other games in the series has. Anyway, those are just some of my thoughts. If you just really can't get into this game, then so be it, but I personally think this is a great return for the series, even if there may have been a few bumps along the way.
i feel like the restricted movement directions actually helps this game, it makes the platforming more consistent. (🤓also technically its 16 movement directions not 8)
Can you summarize if he even tries to explain what the hell makes Paper Jam a more acceptable entry than this? Because I genuinely can't hit play for more than 5 seconds without getting irrationally angry since he seems to be accusing this game of everything that it's actually Paper Jam that is guilty of. I have a text wall in the comment field already and I'm only up to 1:49. Every claim he's made about Brothership so far sounds like he's describing Paper Jam, yet he already namedropped Paper Jam when talking about the entries he feels actually live up to the series' legacy. I can't fathom it. Brothership is oozing with M&L's unique flavor of character design, even with several returning enemies, references original characters from all 4 (good) entries in the series, and openly expands on continuity from Bowser's Inside Story both with Bowser Jr's role and a particular sidequest with Starlow and Bowser. Meanwhile the only thing in Paper Jam that connects it with its predecessors is Starlow being present (nothing continuity-wise is actually done with this though, she's just here now and that's it). Paper Jam unironically jerks off Sticker Star 10x more than the entire M&L series combined. And of course ignores the rest of the Paper Mario series as well. So yeah I just can't watch this without feeling an irrational urge to type this much every five seconds of listening to this. So does he even attempt to explain what makes this game such an affront to the M&L spirit that Paper Jam somehow aces with flying colors? Because no matter how hard I try I can't think of any metric by which that conclusion can be come to.
@@fawfulthegreat64 He only really mentions Paper Jam at the very beginning of the video. So yeah, as I mentioned in my response multiple times, it seems like he just didn't pick up on some of the changes that Paper Jam and Dream Team made for some reason.
@@Miccat87 i mean I don't have any significant issues with Dream Team, for all intents and purposes that was the last game where this one picks up. PJ feels like it exists in its own little sanitized bubble that's ashamed of the series it's part of.
"nitpicky" is a dumb buzzword. My issue with the review is that he's only reviewing a tiny snippet of the story, he should finish the whole game first in order to actually review a story.
@@therandomguy2212 I can get that, but it wasn't his only point. I fell like the other points had some more weight behind them (even if they were baist on an first impression)
Half of this video its filled with misinformation, it wasnt brothership to remove the level up wheel, it was paper jam, the infinite hammer hold was a thing since dream team and the gear slot for the new classes has also been a thing for quite a long time now, if you need to hate on a game at least make your research
@Baconator2558 but they are not brothership changes, they are dream team changes for the most part which is one of the games he lists as being the "good mario and luigi titles that didnt have this problem" he is blaming the new game for shit thats not its fault
I feel the exact opposite, I felt like this game is very versed with its roots, and grows from there. I'm not saying I'm right, or you're wrong, they're just opinions, but I've been overjoyed with this game
People always want to be Nintendo apologists and thats why the quality of the games has slowly declined over the last 3-4 years of the Switch life. Hold them accountable for making quality games and they will. The fact that they dont even try to build games to not have framerate drops when they own the console is sad. Switch 2 might very well be another Wii U
14:42 ok this part makes me really mad, 1st off despite all having grass they are not just grasslands, one is a populated area that leads into a deep forest, one is a constantly raining rain forest very minimally populated because of it, another is a flower field with various types of unique flora, one is the hub world that is a maintained ship shaped island to try to turn the lump of rock into an actually livable island, and the first area isn’t even a grass land it is a rocky biome where people make art out of the surrounding materials, just because something has grass does not automatically make it just a grass land. As for the characters I liked most of them, and you chocking them up to their basics is just insulting to what they were made to be like, especially when the mandatory side quests and objectives only take up a small part of the game in order to supply more world building and to give reason to come back to these areas before you have your full move set. Also EVERY MARIO AND LUIGI GAME REUSES EMEMY TYPES WHEN IT FITS, and even then complaining about this game because it is not just constant antics, when it is setting things up with it’s characters is like reading the cover a book and looking at the picture a dropping on the first page because it doesn’t show what was on it in the beginning, which even it takes a bit to get the crazy stuff, things still happen even before it.
There's a lot of people being overly negative about the game. The problem is you're right, none of these issues are exaggerated. Mario & Luigi is at least a formula that can't really be screwed up, the worst you get is a game that's just ok. Heck, brothership's mediocrity has got me interested in finding a copy of paper jam. The real huge problem with this game you didn't mention is that it's running at a very inconsistent 30FPS with big input lag and tons of frame hiccups in a combat system where timing is crucial for literally everything. It's painful to play. Every other game in the series is least responsive and feels good.
about the hammer point: its been like this since dream team so why are you bringing it now, second i get what you mean but it comes with a serious flaw, if you want to parry 2 shots back to back there is a high chance the second one wont register, you need to hold the hammer for a few frames before its ready, if you just press the button they will not attack, serious problem that happened to me many times in the trilogy, when dream team reworked it they made sure the enemy attacks were more aggressive to compensate for how easy it is now to parry, so the problem is the game difficulty, the hammer change is good
I'm doing okay with the game so far but the changes to Luigi really was a bit of a brain breaker. Mario being controlled with A and Luigi with B was such a novel thing in battle and having to control them both on the map really emphasized that Mario and Luigi were working together all throughout the games. I still had the habit of making Luigi jump until the AI Luigi started working against me when I tried to manually get him to jump over things. I've only ever played up to Bowser's Inside Story on the previous games so I don't know if the next entries changed it, but I was hoping this one would bring back the leader switching that they had all the way back in Super Star Saga letting Luigi take lead. Instead we have even less control of Luigi >_>
They never bring back leader changing, but I'd still highly recommend Dream Team (it's my personal favorite in the series). And I'd also say Paper Jam is worth a try, even though it's pretty divisive.
ngl I think you make some valid points, however I get the vibe you've only played for a bit. Perhaps finish the game and make a follow up vid, seeing if any of your opinions are different, nice video tho
First off I want to say a video like this not just blindly praising or hating the game is good, even if it's more negative leaning. This isn't a game by Alphadream, but it is trying to continue on their legacy. There's a lot that is clearly still being worked out and the fact that there even was a new M&L game is huge. There's a fair number of things here that make it feel not quite like a Mario and Luigi game like not being able to control both bros at once, Luigi basically being a out of battle NPC, and doing everything with the A button instead of A for Mario, B for Luigi. The roulette being removed while sad, can kind of understand from watching all kinds of M&L content and hearing plenty of stories about how people just didn't know you could choose the stat on first level up. Without it instead it gives a chance to make each bro unique over just making them carbon copies in stats cause like why are you ever using the roulette on anything other than offensive stats? When you can only get +1 or +2 from them and finally get a +6 in defense of hp instead?
It's a very bold choice to end the video the way you did, especially without properly finishing the game. I don't know if you HAVE to finish a game to have a proper opinion on it. In some cases, you don't even have to play it. But you have to understand what and where to critique the game if you're going to do that.
This game definitely starts slow, and I think thats its biggest flaw, because when you look past the issues with the first few hours the game definitely picks up. still, a lot of these issues are valid, however I think a bit unfair to the game itself. many games on switch have been plagued with bad performance, and I wouldnt be surprised if this game was given a relatively low budget, and I just disagree with you on the art style (i just think it looks pretty good, and a marked step up from the generic mario slop of the 2010s) and story - i feel like in this way you are focusing too much on what it isnt, rather than what it IS. I feel like the story was always moving, and most of the time you had genuine reasons to visit each island (beyond just linking it) - and as you get further into the game you will see more diverse environments. I actually do think with this game they are balancing a lot of things at the same time, which doesnt become immediately apparent until near the end of the game. I have no idea what they were doing frontloading the game with garbage, but I would guess it was a misguided intentional decision to ease players into the game, and make the game feel like its always getting better with time. (this is the exact issue I have with hollow knight. the early game is just piss awful "intentionally")
@@DodgeThatAttack You also have to keep in mind that the series hasn't had a new entry in almost a decade, so chances are that they felt the need to take things easy for newcomers not familiar with the franchise. Doesn't excuse it being as slow as it is though.
Sure old Mario & Luigi games of the past had faster starts, but you cannot really review the story until you complete it. You're just reviewing a tiny snipped of the story, which is pointless. At least get to the ending to review the story.
Though I understand your frustration about Brothership I think the game is great in my opinion. Brothership to me is a mix of Superstar Saga and Partners in Time since the story is really interesting with unique characters with world building instead of NPC with no personality. And it’s linear islands/levels with its unique mechanics instead of doing the same thing every time on each island. I do have problems with the game but I understand this is not AlphaDream making the games anymore. It’s a new studio giving a unique twist with the Mario & Luigi series with some help with some old AlphaDream employees. This is their first try and they nailed it for what they did. As when Luigi gets to be his own character instead of following you around all the time as a second character it brings life to the game. When the company gets a second chance for another Mario & Luigi I think they will understand what needs to be worked on. 8.5/10
To give it some credit it has a lot more story progression than Paper Jam, though I do wish some islands would have their own little mini-narratives of classic Paper Mario-quality. Also I like how the game jump scares you with "there are Toad missions in this game!" only to be like "Psyke! Nah, we're not doing that." Biggest sigh of relief I ever had. My biggest gripe with the game is probably the late-game fetch quest. They're kind of a M&L staple, though it's not a tradition I particularly enjoy. And like you said, the visual design could have been a little more unique - Mario & Luigi was allowed to look like they do in concept art, why couldn't the same type of cartooniness be applied to Bowser's minions? Even Super Mario Bros. Wonder had more expressive Goombas.
I share so many of the complaints in this video, and I’m thankful there was someone who was able to articulate them effectively. To a lot of people these things may not seem like a big deal, and to be honest most of them aren’t , but this game is just small grievance after small grievance piling up to lower the overall experience. I really wanted to love this game, and I still do enjoy it, but right now it’s battling dream team for 5th place (I never played paper jam so I don’t have it ranked anywhere) It’s a shame to see so many people dismiss criticisms just because they enjoy the game, obviously there are valid rebuttals, but the vast majority of people I’ve seen just deny any criticism on first sight Thankfully in a few months I believe we’ll all be able to have proper discussions regarding this game once we’ve all beaten it, but as for me, 40 hours in and having nearly beaten the game, it sadly falls short of the original 3, and in a lot of areas from dream team as well
I get all that, but I just don't see why we're even insinuating this is comparable to Paper Mario's situation back during _those_ days (you know the ones). It's fine to feel mixed about the game or even hate it for whatever reason, I just feel that filing this game anywhere near "this game ruined the series" is hilarious when we've all been malding for a basically a decade over Mario RPGs losing their charm and originality. Like, yeah, this game has issues. Real ones. But even a serious aggregate of nitpicks can't measure up to shit like Paper Jam imo. It sorta makes me worry about whether or not a future RPG 2 or new traditional Paper Mario is even something we even deserve to get. I get the feeling a lot of the people clamoring for a return to form have an exact image of what their ideal game looks like, and if what we get doesn't match it, we'll start seeing a lot more takes like this.
Oh no this is nothing like paper mario’s situation, and I don’t believe the series is “beyond repair” or anything like that. Like I said, I do still enjoy the game, I’m just extremely disappointed that it falls short of even dream team in some cases, when in my opinion every new installment of a series should be an improvement across the board. Honestly there may be some things that could be easily alleviated with a more powerful switch, such as the lag and load times, but unfortunately that is not the version of the game we were able to play at launch. It’s not like I wanted this game to be disappointing to me, I spent $60 on it, and I want to see the series succeed, but this entry is just not impressive to me whatsoever, not story wise, gameplay wise, or artstyle wise (definitely not music wise either but that’s a little more subjective). I’m not saying that people are fooling themselves for liking it, but I am tired of specifically the people who dismiss any sort of criticism just because it is criticism
@@SireHound Yeah I feel you on some things, especially the music. I don't like the blind praise either when there are areas which could definitely be improved. I just find it a little comical how videos like this frame the game as if it's spiritually "not a Mario and Luigi game" when the issues he ultimately seems to have so much beef with are tiny, TINY deviations from how the series used to be (hammer holding, A button mapping for Luigi, rank up nitpicks, etc.). Not to mention, a good number of these points were present front and center in past games. Then, when he brings up story, he promptly lists all the character archetypes from the past games he wants back, completely ignoring what this game brings to the table when it comes to continuity and theming (however stunted it may be due to the game's pacing and fairly flat writing, which I won't deny is a valid criticism). It just seems to me that a lot of ire is targeted at the game for the reason of "it just doesn't feel enough like SS or BiS" which...is fine, I guess, but is it really deserving of the "not a true X game" statement? To me, it just felt like another M&L game, albeit a flawed and drawn-out one. Giving Brotherhood the "Problem With Paper Mario" treatment comes across as so incredibly entitled to me when the circumstances of the two videos are worlds apart imo.
I replayed all 5 Mario and Luigi games in preparation for Brothership's release. The good, the bad, the ugly. Brothership has some issues, but calling it an utter failure feels harsh. The one point I think you're wrong about is saying Luigi's supposed to be a Pikmin. The way I think it's meant to be is less like you send him off to do tasks and more like you do those tasks with him. You know, as partners. I think the game suffers from less enemy variety than other games before it, and gets to relatively slow start. Brothership actually has my favorite story out of all the games. But it sort of buries the lead in the first act. I think the idea is to introduce a mystery element and have things unclear at the start, but I admit it comes off as a little aimless. By the end of it, I felt Brothership stood side-by-side with its predecessors. Sad you don't feel the same.
My issue is that the game is incledible slow, besides the performance issue, every single action feels it takes longer than it should, specially Luigi logic. Plus all the hand holding but that Nintendo for you
@@laytonspuzzle that's the problem it doesn't start to get really interesting til so much later in the game. I can't say it's my favorite story the bond and connections thing was too cheesy for me. Even though it got darker and more serious close to the end which I did enjoy a lot it's still got that cheesy theme in the background and it's really hard to take the game as serious as i wanted to cause it was so corny. Lol. If you took that out and made game get more serious a bit earlier then yeah I'd say the story would be one of the best.
@@marioandultrachap To me, that theme sounds cheesy on paper but in execution it's done really well and interestingly, even if it is a little on-the-nose. Not to mention, most of the previous games didn't really have... a theme, or point to make? Dream Team got close to saying something about tourism or heritage, but it didn't really stick to its guns. Bowser's Inside Story tugged at my heartstrings with the post-credits scene, but I'm not sure that counts for this.
overall I think this is a fair review, but I doubt you played Dream Team and Paper Jam. removing the stat roulette at the end? That started in Paper Jam. Making gear slot +1 not automatically given, but now be a choice? That started in Dream Team.
@@getpape4126 really? I thought it is nice design, is not the best one, but it still good design. Just because the older are good, doesn't mean the newer one is bad
Great review! Loved that you used the previous games as a benchmark for measuring its quality. Games don’t exist in a vacuum, they exist in the context of what came before and after.
I’m gonna be so honest rn I think the artstyle is intentional. With the exception of the Toads, everything from Mario’s world looks like M&L, the reason why everything else doesn’t is.. because.. It’s not Mario’s world????? Of course he’s going to look somewhat out of place, hell, they look out of place in most of their games because they’re surrounded by a whole load of unique species and locales.
To be fair, it's not just the Toads. Characters like Bowser Jr. and _especially_ Kamek are also suffering from the same problem. I'd say Kamek is actually worse than Toad in that regard.
If you released dream team now it would receive the exact same opinion that brothership is receiving. Long loading screens, long and intrusive tutorials, boring world and childish npcs. People loved that game though and that was a shame for me since I had loved the series since SSS released but then again I’m older and I’m not who Nintendo is appealing to anymore and maybe that audience do enjoy brothership.
@@nope3486 I wasn't a kid by any means when Dream Team came out and I didn't find nearly as childish as this game. It still felt like a game for ages but brothership took the childish gimmick to a whole other level. Outside of the cheesy theme the story at least starts to get less childish towards the end but I think they just forgot what demographics these games appeal to cause it always felt an all ages kind of series. Kids teens and adults can play it and it won't feel too kiddy.
My biggest thing with the game is the fact that the levels are so short. Like the content to me is almost non-existent. Now I just started the game not too long ago, but I've already done two islands, and it's just like maybe three or four enemies, and then you basically just get the islands plug and then you move on to a new one. There's basically like no content, & no difficulty. Where are the bosses... where is the expiration...where is the onslaught of enemies...I mean at least give me a grind, even though that annoys some people but at this point is so short you might as well just allow me to grind to Oblivion. I feel like the fan base has waited too long for a Mario and Luigi game, or something close to a paper Mario (which this would also be), just for them to basically seem like they completed the development of this game in like a week.
Yeahhhh no. As soon as you brought up Paper Jam as an example of "how it was before they ruined it" I couldn't even keep watching. Brothership is the grand return of everything that Paper Jam was openly ashamed to use. Unique characters, a story that isn't painfully standard, memorable original villains, did i mention being original? I genuinely have no idea how you can eat up a sanitized, soulless mess like Paper Jam that has zero M&L flavor outside of Starlow, yet get mad at the game that goes back to having unique interesting characters and a story that isn't just the general Mario status quo played painfully straight, calling THAT the offensively bad one and unironically gassing up the sterile game as a genuine pillar of the series "when it was good" This game is OOZING with M&L flavor. It has that specific type of enemy design that hasn't been seen since Dream Team, and even a handful of returning original enemies, something that sanitized mess actively avoided because it was openly allergic to anything that wasn't a standard mainline Mario element. I genuinely have no idea how you could call PJ a good entry and this one a disaster, and specifically cite that this one is somehow the one that loses M&L's unique charm. The absolute worst things about Brothership are small nitpicks, it has NOTHING that could possibly be considered worse than sanitizing the story and characters to Sticker Star's level. As far as I'm concerned, there is one game that is an affront to everything M&L stands for, and Brothership is them bouncing back from that game.
8:26 you forgot the game is actually called Ownership not Brothership (must be the mandela effect) and you're supposed to send Luigi to puppy school so that he learns how to properly obey all your commands and follow you everywhere. The game was actually originally supposed to be Dogz 3 but they lost the rights so they had to change the skins to something else. Skill issue.
I pretty feel the opposite even though there is an extremely important problem to address :spoiler that are not too much spoiler alert: The game kinda looks amazing with 3D models very well fleshed out and great animations with amazing cutscenes. However, the quality of the switch does not allow a fluid game with loading times that may be a bit long but especially lags when you have too many characters or effects on the screen. But for me the main problem is the post-game. Ik RPG aren't made for post-game content, but I've always been disappointed to see the village in constant state of ruins in SuperStar Saga, but here, it affects all the main game (especially concerned with lags) and you don't even get to enjoy more than half of the soundtrack after that, without forgetting a lack of rematch for the bosses (you can with side quests, but they force you to do before the final boss and is only a one-time event).
Man, these comments.. Your review is honest and It's so refreshing seeing that. Mario games are very consistent but this one is just a disappointment. I'm glad you addressed the problems with this subseries' core identity and the creativity being removed.
I'm sorry but anyone who says Paper Jam upholds the series' identity (while it uses nothing but vanilla Mario characters and Starlow is the only M&L thing in the entire game) while this game (which is oozing with M&L-style character design, both new and returning, and has an ambitious story that goes insanely hard) does not is not being honest. Whatever metric comes to that conclusion is just objectively flawed.
what about the comments? It's normal to disagree. Obviously this guy's opinion is valid but they are still points that I don't get. What's the problem with changing? That doesn't mean you destroyed the saga's identity
Bro, he hasn't even completed the game let alone finish Lushgreen Sea. So his opinion is massively gonna be invalid in the eyes of others including myself for a while until he actually...y'know COMPLETES THE GAME???
Gonna be real with you guys I personally would not finish a 40 hour game If I wasn't liking it, that'd just be a slog. I don't even see how the full picture would really change this opinion. @fawfulthegreat64 does bring up a valid point though.
There's a lot of QOL features added in later games that are weirdly absent here. Where's the progress marker for finding the blocks in previous areas? Where's the music player? Where's the dash socks? Why did we lose on-the-fly saving? Why are tutorials back to being intrusive after Paper Jam and the remakes toned them down? There's like three mandatory shop tutorials in this game.
Can we not shoot Brothership until it cannot allow Mario and Luigi come back, it is a good game, it has everything I want in a Mario and Luigi game, the art style looks amazing, and the fact that everyone nitpicks this game until all I hear is how it is worse than it is just makes me upset.
As i die hard fan of the previous games, I sadly agree, I honestly dont understand why luigi was changed for the worse like this and the enviotments and enemies just look generic
Great vid Rev! I have yet to play this game but given my love of RPGs, i probably will sooner or later. You said they should've went for the Ocotopath style but i think this 3D style could have worked if they took the extra step. Recently, another RPG released called Metaphor Refantazio. This game was made by many the Persona devs and has a fantastical setting. To complement this, the game has a sort of hand painted look to world and characters, and it looked great. I feel like if Brothership went for a similar style, (obviously with a Mario twist) it could have looked better.
Thanks Rylee! Based on what I've seen of Metaphor, I definitely do agree with you. The style can be done really well given some talent. Though personally, sprite art is just what Mario & Luigi is to me. It's so highly engrained into the series' identity at this point. Admittedly, this is probably just also me being a boomer about it. Even back when Dream Team came out 11 years ago (god), Young Rev was mulling about how much they changed the art style to make it worse. If only I knew...
Perfectly describes my feeling on the game, super disappointing to see this game fall so short. As an rpg it’s ok? Like 6/10 maybe a 7 but that is so far from the standard of this series.
ok but im gonna be honest, some of his points were already in dream team: slow loading time is purely because of the device's bad performance, the 3DS just has a lower storage than the switch and just had a lot of limitations, but switch fails to run anything near as good as PC for any type of 3D animation holding your hammer attacks, i literally did it in paper jam like bro gear slot level up, like i also did it in paper jam, its not new and also nitpicking on the artstyle isnt a good and valid criticism. those points were my problem with this review i havent played Brothership so i cant say it is good nor bad, but i did see stuff i cannot avoid because i want to have some spoiler free thing, but if things that were already IN previous games and complaining about it NOW? thats not a good review still, some points are valid, i would agree, but thats just how it always is Superstar Saga: Lack of innovation Partners In Time: Too much buttons Bowser's Inside Story: Too easy Dream Team: Bad pacing Paper Jam: Lack of originality Literal valid criticisms from people that cannot be overlooked, but it did? why? because the game was engaging enough. Its the same as this one, in a few years people will start appreciating this game more like Paper jam, even though it is by far the worse in the series, ive seen a liking of PJ in recent years, that still criticized its horrible originality on enemies.
@@resean2727 honestly it’s slightly better but not by much. The worlds of Brothership can be just as generic as Paper Jam but the world design and story are a bit better. It really is a toss up, because while Brothership attempts to be a M&L game, Paper Jam feels like one gameplay wise
My biggest disappointment is the story. It had so much potential, yet it's so basic. Is it bad? Nah, but it could have been much better. Why are we immediately transported to Concordia? Why should we care about the new characters? Why aren't they showing us what's happening rather than telling via flashbacks? Why aren't there any major Mario characters like Daisy involved (she's long over due)? Brothership is by the numbers, so I hope that the next one is more experimental.
There aren’t any normal Mario characters like daisy because….its a spinoff….and also why aren’t they showing us what’s happening rather than telling via flashback???? That’s how a good story is presented…you need to figure out what’s happening as it’s presented to you…there would be no point in showing everything right off the bat
I mean, I'm pretty sure one of the main reasons we don't see the old Concordia is because it's destroyed, but im still at the beginning of allsand island so I don't know if you see it later on
If this story disappointed you, Paper Jam must have hospitalized you. Because this is where the series started to give a damn again after that game was a massive nothingburger that seemed ashamed of its predecessors and more interested in wanking off Sticker Star and the NSMB series.
@@fawfulthegreat64 Yeah, PJ sucked. My expectations were higher for the next game's story, yet we got a mid story in Brothership. It has some highlights though.
@@GonFantasma Most of the exposition dumps are flashbacks or things that already happened; that's passive. "Spinoff" isn't an excuse for no characters like Daisy, Wario, Rosalina, etc lol. There's nothing stopping them from doing it, and they've added mainline characters into the rpgs (like Bj, Toadette, etc) over time.
I get and agree with a lot of the sentiments, but even then that feels a tad harsh. That being said I really hope there will be a new game in the future that falls in line a little better
One of the things that nobody mentioned in this game is Bowser. In the previous games (starting from BIS) Bowser had that fantastic character development that brought him in a position of an actually competent villain, look at Dream Team’s Bowser and look at this: this is again the Bowser from SS, seems like his development has just been thrown away. The only good thing is that he calls Starlow Chippy, but aside from that, he was really disappointing, almost like the game itself. I get that they wanted new villains (even though if these are the villains, it would’ve been better having Bowser again), but seriously don’t ruin a great development from the previius games. Not talking about how forgettable Zokket and Reclusa are, I mean Zokket is too generic and Reclusa almost seems like a cheap copy of Flowey from undertale. They have nothing to do with Cackletta, Fawful, the Shroobs and Antasma.
But I also think Mario RPGs need to be willing to just make a game without Bowser, and let the new villains stand on their own. The constant need to shoehorn him into games where he doesn't belong is a bit annoying. A lot of his roles could be filled by other characters like Wario.
He does have a lot of good points but, for the character thing, remember IDLE? I mean that's it really. And for the enemies you're not entirely wrong. But there are some weird and new enemies here. But you should definitely play the whole game before dropping your opinion.
Always nice to see when someone is just as let down on something as I was. I keep trying to go through it in fear of missing something, but this game is a slog compared to the earlier games. No interconnectivity in the world, braindead exploration, no sense of urgency in story, huge lack of pacing. It's not even a bad game, just so mid.
@@TheLeetCasualGamer I can agree with this but you have to understand that they were trying something new with the whole island hoping trope. I think that's why the exploration is a little lacking in this game. I'm personally ok with it this time cause I see they were trying to experiment a bit just as long as this isn't something in the series moving forward I don't think it will be though since it was very specific to game in general. I didn't like it either but I can understand the developers wanting to experiment a bit so I'm not too mad at them for that cause at least they're trying to be creative. I agree and disagree on the urgency. The urgency is there but unfortunately it comes so much later in the game but yeah that goes back to the very bad pacing problem in the game which I think is the number 1 issue with this game if the pacing was better the game would of done better. Because all of the exciting stuff doesn't happen til so much later in the game when they should spreaded out a bit more than they did.
@@TheLeetCasualGamer even Still aside from everything you mention the game still delivered on everything else I wanted so it's a very mixed bag kind of game why I gave it a 7.5/10
Brothership feels like the next era of the mario and luigi series Era 1 gba-3ds Era 2 switch I think where a lot of the faults come from is the facts that basically none of the original staff came back. The biggest let down for me, was the composer. The music in brothership is so painfully basic. But I can definitely see if the next game were to come out. It would follow brothers ship and not any of the other previous entries.
This was our chance to get a VAPORWAVE mario game and they blew it! The world doesn't look electronics themed at all. Imagine, the world was a giant computer where each area was a different part of the computer. The ice area was the AC unit. The CPU was a lava region. The graphics card an artisan civilization. NOPE! Why are they hiding the premise? If they're so ashamed to make a electronics themed Mario and Luigi game then why do it at all?
what? in japanese its called the "Connector" land, its not based *on* specifically electronics at all, it only has electronic theme people and things is because the whole Island is a pun in of itself because Concordia is the Latin word for Harmony, the peaceful island it was once before, and plays a pun of Connection and Cord Which are, as you know, The broken islands and Electronics respectively. My point is, Concordia should not be solely be associated with electronics as a whole, just because the species living there are living outlets also theres a real life ship called Concordia
@@Commenter3726 The game's theme is electronic connectors. As a metaphor for connections and bonds. And even you acknowledge all the people and things are electronic. So why not lean into it further? We could of had something remarkable.
@@IREV00 Tetsuo Mizuno the founder of Alpha Dream, was an Executive Producer of Xenogears. Since Xenoblade is a successor to Xenogears, maybe Xenoblade can be a successor to Mario and Luigi?????
It's a little jarring having Luigi act automatically in the overworld but don't act like it wasn't annoying when you'd jump with both simultaneously and Luigi didn't make the jump and Mario couldn't move until you net up with Luigi on the ground. Also, the health bars? Who cares? It removes the guesswork for bosses and if you know how to add you would be able to calculate the HP values of regular enemies easily. Pressing A to select Luigi's attack but B to actually attack is jarring at first but there's no real "right" way to do it. In the older games there were plenty of times I forgot B is the "accept" button only in Luigi's battle menu. The solution the older games had was to make goung back a selectable menu item rather than something with a single-button shortcut. In other words, I would catch myself trying to Press B to reverse an option, which if I were playing as Luigi, would make him select the thing I wasn't trying to select. Say I have my cursor on "Hammer" but then I realize, actually I want to heal. I press B, the universal Nintendo "back" button, but that actually just sends me into the Hammer animation, and I don't heal. There was never a reality where the gimmick of controlling a character in real-time with a separate button was handled elegantly. There would be dissonance one way or another. Don't act like one way is bad and one way is good, because they're both not as optimal as other RPG's with fully consistent battle controls. Is Breath of the Wild bad because you seing the sword with Y instead of B? The Hammer counter thing. Sure it's less hardcore and raw and difficult but have you ever tried to counter multiple attacks in the old games? It just doesn't work. The difficulty doesn't come from the fact you couldn't hold the hammer out forever so much as the startup frames. You couldn't think fast with it, you had to account for the delay which can actually be really annoying when you're trying to learn a new attack pattern. This game has problems, but never did I consider "the enemies move to a spot" to be one of them. Pacing is the biggest flaw I think and it really picks up after a bit. Presentation is really just aesthetic and while past games definitely did theirs cooler, this game doesn't do it bad by any means. The rank up bonuses are not boring. They seriously impact your playthrough because they can't all be chosen and have long-term consequences. The old thing of building your character with small stat boosts was cool, but this new thing actually lets you manipulate the growth rathes of the brothers' stats. You can *guarantee* a stat increases by at least 1 per level up, which is huge. You can make the brothers passively gain 20% more exp. And this adds tremendously to replayability because you can mix and match options depending on playthrough since your choices are irreversible and you can only select a fraction of the available options. The old way worked but just because the new one is different doesn't mean that it doesn't work. Art style? It took a while to grow on me. Doesn't mean the game is bad, that's completely subjective. Also, no story? How far have you actually made it into this game?
I agree with you for the most part, even though I still enjoyed playing this game, I noticed all the things you mentioned, the game remains only good because it's the return of Mario & Luigi, but many things are wrong and I hope so much that the next one will fix all these problems, in addition to the music which is really a level below + the story much too basic, a villain horribly lame and uninteresting to exist, so much its ambition are zero.
Shameful. I grew up with Mario Sports games on the GBC and GBA that had personality and great writing, worlds, and characters. How far they've plummeted.
I don't know how far you played the game yet, but from the stuff that you are referencing I'm gonna assume you only finished the first great lighthouse. I don't really think it's fair to make a Video saying that the game isn't good (or more specifically, not as good as the old one's) when you haven't even finished it. I can definitely see why you would dislike the stuff that you played if that was the complete game, but it isn't. This game can definitely drag, and i think that the pacing of the game is by far the worst part of it, but if you say stuff like that the game doesn't have a great variety of enemies without even playing half of it, that seems a but unfair. A lot of the problems you listed were also in the other games, like the hammer thing. I do have to agree though with the enemie (specifically boss) healthbars. I think that a lot of tension is lost with that. It was also a wierd decision to bring back the thing from paper jam, where you couldn't upgrade your stats every level up. I would recommend you to still at least finishe the game and see if your opinion might change. I'm sorry for you that you didn't enjoy the game so far though
Finally people are starting to share their real thoughts and disappointment with the game. The sales tell the real story even when Nintendo makes people say nice things online
Have you actually played or finished the game? Not saying that there can't be criticism or that the game has no problems. I just think it's an exaggeration to say that Nintendo pays people to say nice things about it
Brothership is alright. To me it's on the lower half of the series, alongside Paper Jam and Partners in Time. The biggest issues for me are the agonizingly bad start (takes around 15 hours to finally get good. Not decent or enjoyable, but genuinely good.), the combat taking forever to give you anything, the mixed handling of Luigi (Luigi Logic elevates him but him being an AI makes him feel far, far less important), and how repetitive it is with the whole islands thing (especially when they pad the shit out of them by making you go back to them, even though they have over 30 islands counting the islets.) And I agree, the movement is so strange. I didn't know why but now that I've seen that it's 8 directions, yeah. It's weaker than every other game's movement.
it really isnt, the 16 direction thing is not really a problem and the fact that for once bro moves have an ACTUAL use outside of "oh go there and use them" is incredible. SPOILERS : The ball and fire/ice flowers being actually useful to start fights with big damages or to move quickly around an area, to me brothership has the best overworld movement in the franchise by far.
Is it just me or do battle plugs ruin the game bc I fought bowser and was doing 700 damage with 2 iron balls attack boost and anti bowser minions and beat bowser with using no bros attacks and why dose anti bowser minions work against bowser when he’s the leader and why is the main villain of the game count bleck
Dude they just got back but now you are complaining about art style wow just wow, you just them die don't you and also let them update mario & Luigi brothership button b jump for Luigi
I've never played a mario and luigi game, but good god ive heard so many great things about them, but this game never really interested me, it just looks so boring and unappealing, im glad you verified all of that for me. Also Rev, once again great video and great breakdown, some of these comments though are really interesting... when a video gets popular its expected, but im sure you dont need to be told this, but please just keep doing whatever you enjoy, thats where the best content comes from. Take care!!
Thanks Stolenearth! I definitely recommend you play Bowser's Inside Story or Superstar Saga. They are very special games that deserve a playthrough if you haven't already.
I don’t care about how nostalgic or what ever people have about the old game this is a new era for Mario and Luigi I have fond memories of super star partner in time and inside story but brothership is a new spin on it I keep the core battle mechanics and tries to bring life into a death series after 10 years nickpicking a artstyle for not being Mario characters enough feel kinda weird knowing we had to suffer through 10 plus years of generic toads with no new characters/ species to bounce off on for years the plug people look wacky and weird no which is intentional as clearly stated it a completely separate world I will agree on the animations they could have used more work but that most of the cast looks great the scenery in some places are gorgeous and a lot of effort trying to recapture the feel of the original it ain’t perfect but I mean you try to recreate a 10 year old game series that has been dead for years and need more sparks of creativity after the failure of paper jam on it release
idk why people keeping acting like Inside story is the first game of the series...If your gonna compare the root of the series you need to go to Superstar Saga the original game. I say it all the time most of you aren't Mario and Luigi fans you're Bowser fans. call it what it is.
@@xeromachinimas idk inside story was the first game he brought up and I checked out of the video after that cause I was annoyed. If that's the case he should of started off with that. Really I think some people just don't like any game in the series cause it's not inside story when inside story is an anomaly to the series.
@@marioandultrachapHe started with it because it was the first game in the series _he_ played. He then goes on to mention Superstar Saga right after it.
While some points are valid, you didn’t even finish the game. At least finish the game before you make statements like this cause not finishing the game makes most of your arguments irrelevant
damn, maybe i shouldnt buy the game afterall, afterall for me its a big investment so i need to pick which game i buy carefully thank you for making this video, i dodged a bullet
You literally complain about what dream team had for the half of the video and the other half is some changes that one could get used to easily. And bro, you say there is no story yet you told us multiple characters arcs that you personally dont care. Just say that you didnt like their designs I guess.
I just finished this game and 65 hours later I feel nothing from besting the final boss the second phase sucked and I was getting to a point where I felt fatigued from the game going on and on and on! I just wanted to be done and move onto something else...I'm sorry but this game just doesn't hit for me yes it has its great moments and references it gets better after the first season hell the second sea but ugh it takes too long..m
half these comments are like "yeah i agree with you, Brothership sucks" and half of the comments are like "bruh i wasted 16 minutes of my life with a bad review like yours, delete your video"
and some are like actually constructive "yeah, sorry that you didn't enjoy, but i personally disagree"
Says a lot about the kind of people these videos attract: People who're just as low-effort as the person who made the video, not caring enough to really make a point or have a conversation.
@@LuznoLindo he did make somr fair points some fair points. Like the technical difficulty, movement being a bit sluggish, luigi controls be odd in combat especislly with the a and b button, luigi working kinda like an ai which really does make it a chore to keep track, and constant load from the beginning of the battle to the end of the battle which really makes fighting even the weakest enemies annoying as each beginning and end loading takes like 10-15 seconds each do thats 20-30 seconds of waiting for load and factor in how much enemies your gonna face intentionally and unintentionally those seconds adds up into minutes and those minutes can add to hours.
The second comments are bots
@@chiquita683 wdym?
The hammer thing, that's been a thing since Dream Team. The whole "if you hold your hammer too long, it falls" war was lost in 2013. The stat thing was changed for Paper Jam and I guess they decided to keep it for Brothership.
Exactly, they been able to hold their hammers since dream team yet he complains about it now? Gimme a break lol
@@shantaehalf-geniehero4318it’s clear he probably never played Dream Team…
I do actually agree with that part, just that they're in Dream Team and Paper Jam doesn't mean it has to be kept for Brothership.
To all the comments who agree with this man...reminder that this dude didn't even complete Lushgreen Sea, aka the first area of the game, pretty sure all other M&L games had the same problem of the first hour or 30 mins of the game having no story until the 2nd act begins where it starts to ramp up, also before ya'll give me that the game holds your hand speech, It can and will kick your ass later on...I would know because not one boss battle after Lushgreen Sea I went without either getting 2 game overs, or get really close to getting one.
Disagree with the difficulty, everything was easy besides the Desert Sharks that instant KO you.
One of the biggest things for me is how, like you said, in battle menus, you use A to select options, even for Luigi’s turn, which ends up with me missing my attack 😂
Bro ong-
I thought I was the only one who was complaining about this
Mario is a and Luigi's b in literally everything they tell you that
They didn’t even add the option to change it back smh
@@Cosmolermmm I was thinking the same thing!
how hard is it to add an accessibility option that says classic a/b style??
Nintendo's patches sucks because of how long it takes to change a simple button combination @DiceRRoll
I’ve played through every game in the series and personally? Brothership is an amazing return, granted I actually played the game from start to finish but this game isn’t that bad, while I do understand the pacing and issues with how Luigi works, I think it’s perfectly fine, it’s also fine if you don’t like the game but at the very least finish the game, it does get good, even if it takes many hours, this was an amazing return to the franchise with impressive animations, new visuals, and amazing combat, also the thing about holding your hammer for too long, I’m pretty sure that feature disappeared in Dream Team, and Paper Jam removed the stat boost each time you level up, while I do agree that Brothership should have reverted the change it didn’t introduce it, so I do understand why people have a problem with this game, but calling it trash and disappointing is a bit much, at the very least beat the game first
If you don't like the game that's fair but calling the game a "complete and utter failure" is laughable when you haven't even gotten past the first sea, let alone beat the game
Oof. sorry to hear that you didn't enjoy it. Personally, as someone who has played all of the previous Mario & Luigi games, I've been liking it a lot, and think it's one of the better games in the series, despite having some flaws here and there. I'll give my thoughts on some of the points you made:
I'll gloss over the points about the art style and character designs/animations, seeing as those things are very subjective. I will say that the art style took me a bit of getting used to, but I came to enjoy it over time. It has a very cartoon-y look, and I think that works pretty well for the Mario & Luigi series. Maybe the character designs aren't that interesting for some, but they are meant to tie into the whole "electrical connection" theme that the game uses, so it makes sense why they look the way they do.
5:46 I will say that the loading screens can sometimes be a bit longer than I would like, but it wasn't really enough to detract from the game for me. Might just be a personal preference thing, considering that I have seen some others who are a bit annoyed by the load times as well, and I am kind of patient when it comes to things like this.
6:37 I'll be completely honest. I literally did not notice this at all when I was playing. And even though I can see it now, it doesn't hinder the game that much for me. There are other 3D games out there that also use 8-way movement, and while a full range of movement may be preferred in certain cases, I feel like 8-way is still perfectly functional if you take enough time to get used to it.
8:25 You do realize that you specifically jumped towards that platform when it was already moving away from the ledge right? If you jump when it's close, that won't happen. Plus, when talking about Luigi being able to do things in the overworld like break boxes, you're going out of your way to leave him behind, so what do you really expect to happen? Wouldn't it make more sense to just have both Mario and Luigi destroying boxes at the same time anyway? That's certainly more efficient than just having one or the other do it. Would you really prefer that only Mario can do stuff like that, and Luigi just vacantly follows behind doing almost nothing, like in the old games? Like, honestly, he feels far more useful to me than in the other games, and I've rarely had issues with him slowing me down. It feels like, in most cases, I have to go out of my way for him to get stuck. As such, I have a hard time understanding this perspective. The A.I. Luigi may have a few kinks here and there, but I genuinely feel that it makes the game better in certain ways. It makes navigation and interacting with things in the overworld more convenient. Having to individually pluck out turnips with only Mario would've been kind of tedious and I don't particularly enjoy missing a jump with Luigi and having to go back since the bros are always basically glued together in the older games. Plus, it makes Luigi more of his own character that can do his own things instead of basically just being an extension of Mario.
10:48 This has been the case since Dream Team, so seems odd that you would bring it up now, when you already mentioned liking Dream Team and Paper Jam despite their divisive nature. What makes the being able to hold the hammer forever in Brothership a problem if you didn't mind it in those other recent games? You do still have to time your hammer swing, so it doesn't remove all of the challenge. There are plenty of hammer counters in the recent games that I still struggle to consistently time.
11:06 Okay, I'll admit I was mildly disappointed by this. Yes, it's nice to be able to choose a stat to further increase. However, I never really saw it as a big game-changing feature. The older games specifically encouraged you to upgrade everything evenly anyway, since that gets you the most bonus points. Plus, beans and rank-up bonuses already fill a similar role of stat customization. Also, once again, this was a thing in Paper Jam and you never brought that up. Level ups do still definitely matter, as every single stat gets increased each time. Avoid too many enemies, and you'll be doing a lot less damage and taking a lot more damage from enemies later in the game.
11:22 Again, this was how it worked in both Dream Team and Paper Jam. Seems you're really not picking up on a lot of the changes those games made. Also, having the option to choose things other than an extra gear slot only adds to the customization, so I can't see why it's a bad thing. If you want to go for gear slots right away, just like in Bowser's Inside Story, you can absolutely choose to do that, but if you'd like to try something different, you also can do that. I really don't see how anything is lost here. It's just more options to customize your build compared to having one specific upgrade given to you with no other choices.
11:44 I'll admit, the lack of enemy variety early on had me a bit worried, but later in the game, I didn't mind it at all. Having enemies from earlier in the game return later can actually add some more variation to battles, as you never really know when an enemy that you fought earlier will make a re-appearance. This is a problem that can be kind of noticeable during the first several hours of the game, but I felt that the enemy roster gets big enough later on to the point where it's not really much of an issue. I get the feeling that you didn't play that far into the game, because it does keep introducing new enemies that aren't just re-skins, all the way up until the end. It just might not do so quite as quickly as older games used to, probably because it's a lot longer. My first playthrough was around 47 hours, including all the side quests.
13:56 Again, I get the feeling that you didn't play that far. This game's story had some pretty crazy developments later on that really caught me off guard, even as someone who's played all of the previous Mario & Luigi games and almost all of the Paper Mario games. At first, it's kind of slow-moving, but that makes sense. Stories follow a slow escalation in tension, leading up to a climax and a resolution. This game definitely does follow that basic structure. It's just that you might not see a whole lot of it right away, because as I said before, the game's pretty long, so things have to take time to develop.
14:46 This is because each region of the sea follows a theme with its islands. The first sea is even called "Lushgreen Sea", so it mainly being grasslands and forests makes sense. The themes do change up once you reach a new region of the sea after each Great Lighthouse.
15:16 Er... what? None of the side-quests are mandatory. That's why they're SIDE-quests. If you really don't see any point to them, then just... don't do them. Move along with the main story like you want to. They're just there for people who enjoy doing some extra stuff.
I'd encourage you to keep playing, because while the beginning of this game is a bit underwhelming, the rest of it more than makes up for it, in my opinion, as it honestly reaches heights that no other games in the series has. Anyway, those are just some of my thoughts. If you just really can't get into this game, then so be it, but I personally think this is a great return for the series, even if there may have been a few bumps along the way.
@@Miccat87, you can definitely tell Rev stopped playing the game at some point. I mean, it's whatever, but it's important to at least mention that.
i feel like the restricted movement directions actually helps this game, it makes the platforming more consistent. (🤓also technically its 16 movement directions not 8)
Can you summarize if he even tries to explain what the hell makes Paper Jam a more acceptable entry than this? Because I genuinely can't hit play for more than 5 seconds without getting irrationally angry since he seems to be accusing this game of everything that it's actually Paper Jam that is guilty of. I have a text wall in the comment field already and I'm only up to 1:49. Every claim he's made about Brothership so far sounds like he's describing Paper Jam, yet he already namedropped Paper Jam when talking about the entries he feels actually live up to the series' legacy. I can't fathom it. Brothership is oozing with M&L's unique flavor of character design, even with several returning enemies, references original characters from all 4 (good) entries in the series, and openly expands on continuity from Bowser's Inside Story both with Bowser Jr's role and a particular sidequest with Starlow and Bowser. Meanwhile the only thing in Paper Jam that connects it with its predecessors is Starlow being present (nothing continuity-wise is actually done with this though, she's just here now and that's it). Paper Jam unironically jerks off Sticker Star 10x more than the entire M&L series combined. And of course ignores the rest of the Paper Mario series as well. So yeah I just can't watch this without feeling an irrational urge to type this much every five seconds of listening to this. So does he even attempt to explain what makes this game such an affront to the M&L spirit that Paper Jam somehow aces with flying colors? Because no matter how hard I try I can't think of any metric by which that conclusion can be come to.
@@fawfulthegreat64 He only really mentions Paper Jam at the very beginning of the video. So yeah, as I mentioned in my response multiple times, it seems like he just didn't pick up on some of the changes that Paper Jam and Dream Team made for some reason.
@@Miccat87 i mean I don't have any significant issues with Dream Team, for all intents and purposes that was the last game where this one picks up. PJ feels like it exists in its own little sanitized bubble that's ashamed of the series it's part of.
FINISH THE DAM GAME
Am I the only one who feels like this video is very nitpicky?
"nitpicky" is a dumb buzzword. My issue with the review is that he's only reviewing a tiny snippet of the story, he should finish the whole game first in order to actually review a story.
Okay but, hm complaining about an enemy quickly getting close to the bros in battle in an instant sounds super nitpicky
@@Luxembourgishit is nitpicky tho, stfu
nah i agree
@@therandomguy2212 I can get that, but it wasn't his only point. I fell like the other points had some more weight behind them (even if they were baist on an first impression)
Half of this video its filled with misinformation, it wasnt brothership to remove the level up wheel, it was paper jam, the infinite hammer hold was a thing since dream team and the gear slot for the new classes has also been a thing for quite a long time now, if you need to hate on a game at least make your research
They still chose to keep these changes, so it's fair to criticize it for them.
@Baconator2558 but they are not brothership changes, they are dream team changes for the most part which is one of the games he lists as being the "good mario and luigi titles that didnt have this problem" he is blaming the new game for shit thats not its fault
I feel the exact opposite, I felt like this game is very versed with its roots, and grows from there. I'm not saying I'm right, or you're wrong, they're just opinions, but I've been overjoyed with this game
😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊
People always want to be Nintendo apologists and thats why the quality of the games has slowly declined over the last 3-4 years of the Switch life. Hold them accountable for making quality games and they will. The fact that they dont even try to build games to not have framerate drops when they own the console is sad. Switch 2 might very well be another Wii U
@@chiquita683 I am definitely not a nintendo apologist XD I just genuinely like the game. Im extremely critical of nintento its actually funny
14:42 ok this part makes me really mad, 1st off despite all having grass they are not just grasslands, one is a populated area that leads into a deep forest, one is a constantly raining rain forest very minimally populated because of it, another is a flower field with various types of unique flora, one is the hub world that is a maintained ship shaped island to try to turn the lump of rock into an actually livable island, and the first area isn’t even a grass land it is a rocky biome where people make art out of the surrounding materials, just because something has grass does not automatically make it just a grass land. As for the characters I liked most of them, and you chocking them up to their basics is just insulting to what they were made to be like, especially when the mandatory side quests and objectives only take up a small part of the game in order to supply more world building and to give reason to come back to these areas before you have your full move set. Also EVERY MARIO AND LUIGI GAME REUSES EMEMY TYPES WHEN IT FITS, and even then complaining about this game because it is not just constant antics, when it is setting things up with it’s characters is like reading the cover a book and looking at the picture a dropping on the first page because it doesn’t show what was on it in the beginning, which even it takes a bit to get the crazy stuff, things still happen even before it.
There's a lot of people being overly negative about the game. The problem is you're right, none of these issues are exaggerated. Mario & Luigi is at least a formula that can't really be screwed up, the worst you get is a game that's just ok. Heck, brothership's mediocrity has got me interested in finding a copy of paper jam.
The real huge problem with this game you didn't mention is that it's running at a very inconsistent 30FPS with big input lag and tons of frame hiccups in a combat system where timing is crucial for literally everything. It's painful to play. Every other game in the series is least responsive and feels good.
about the hammer point: its been like this since dream team so why are you bringing it now, second i get what you mean but it comes with a serious flaw, if you want to parry 2 shots back to back there is a high chance the second one wont register, you need to hold the hammer for a few frames before its ready, if you just press the button they will not attack, serious problem that happened to me many times in the trilogy, when dream team reworked it they made sure the enemy attacks were more aggressive to compensate for how easy it is now to parry, so the problem is the game difficulty, the hammer change is good
My one and only issue is that this game has mobile game graphics and still cant run in 60. Makes going from pit/bis to this a nightmare
I'm doing okay with the game so far but the changes to Luigi really was a bit of a brain breaker. Mario being controlled with A and Luigi with B was such a novel thing in battle and having to control them both on the map really emphasized that Mario and Luigi were working together all throughout the games. I still had the habit of making Luigi jump until the AI Luigi started working against me when I tried to manually get him to jump over things.
I've only ever played up to Bowser's Inside Story on the previous games so I don't know if the next entries changed it, but I was hoping this one would bring back the leader switching that they had all the way back in Super Star Saga letting Luigi take lead. Instead we have even less control of Luigi >_>
They never bring back leader changing, but I'd still highly recommend Dream Team (it's my personal favorite in the series). And I'd also say Paper Jam is worth a try, even though it's pretty divisive.
ngl I think you make some valid points, however I get the vibe you've only played for a bit. Perhaps finish the game and make a follow up vid, seeing if any of your opinions are different, nice video tho
First off I want to say a video like this not just blindly praising or hating the game is good, even if it's more negative leaning. This isn't a game by Alphadream, but it is trying to continue on their legacy. There's a lot that is clearly still being worked out and the fact that there even was a new M&L game is huge.
There's a fair number of things here that make it feel not quite like a Mario and Luigi game like not being able to control both bros at once, Luigi basically being a out of battle NPC, and doing everything with the A button instead of A for Mario, B for Luigi. The roulette being removed while sad, can kind of understand from watching all kinds of M&L content and hearing plenty of stories about how people just didn't know you could choose the stat on first level up. Without it instead it gives a chance to make each bro unique over just making them carbon copies in stats cause like why are you ever using the roulette on anything other than offensive stats? When you can only get +1 or +2 from them and finally get a +6 in defense of hp instead?
It's a very bold choice to end the video the way you did, especially without properly finishing the game. I don't know if you HAVE to finish a game to have a proper opinion on it. In some cases, you don't even have to play it. But you have to understand what and where to critique the game if you're going to do that.
Its soo strange that the discourse around this game is so polarizing
This game definitely starts slow, and I think thats its biggest flaw, because when you look past the issues with the first few hours the game definitely picks up.
still, a lot of these issues are valid, however I think a bit unfair to the game itself.
many games on switch have been plagued with bad performance, and I wouldnt be surprised if this game was given a relatively low budget, and I just disagree with you on the art style (i just think it looks pretty good, and a marked step up from the generic mario slop of the 2010s) and story - i feel like in this way you are focusing too much on what it isnt, rather than what it IS.
I feel like the story was always moving, and most of the time you had genuine reasons to visit each island (beyond just linking it) - and as you get further into the game you will see more diverse environments.
I actually do think with this game they are balancing a lot of things at the same time, which doesnt become immediately apparent until near the end of the game.
I have no idea what they were doing frontloading the game with garbage, but I would guess it was a misguided intentional decision to ease players into the game, and make the game feel like its always getting better with time. (this is the exact issue I have with hollow knight. the early game is just piss awful "intentionally")
@@DodgeThatAttack
You also have to keep in mind that the series hasn't had a new entry in almost a decade, so chances are that they felt the need to take things easy for newcomers not familiar with the franchise.
Doesn't excuse it being as slow as it is though.
Sure old Mario & Luigi games of the past had faster starts, but you cannot really review the story until you complete it. You're just reviewing a tiny snipped of the story, which is pointless. At least get to the ending to review the story.
Though I understand your frustration about Brothership I think the game is great in my opinion. Brothership to me is a mix of Superstar Saga and Partners in Time since the story is really interesting with unique characters with world building instead of NPC with no personality. And it’s linear islands/levels with its unique mechanics instead of doing the same thing every time on each island. I do have problems with the game but I understand this is not AlphaDream making the games anymore. It’s a new studio giving a unique twist with the Mario & Luigi series with some help with some old AlphaDream employees. This is their first try and they nailed it for what they did. As when Luigi gets to be his own character instead of following you around all the time as a second character it brings life to the game. When the company gets a second chance for another Mario & Luigi I think they will understand what needs to be worked on.
8.5/10
mario & luigi: brother.. get off this ship..
To give it some credit it has a lot more story progression than Paper Jam, though I do wish some islands would have their own little mini-narratives of classic Paper Mario-quality.
Also I like how the game jump scares you with "there are Toad missions in this game!" only to be like "Psyke! Nah, we're not doing that." Biggest sigh of relief I ever had.
My biggest gripe with the game is probably the late-game fetch quest. They're kind of a M&L staple, though it's not a tradition I particularly enjoy. And like you said, the visual design could have been a little more unique - Mario & Luigi was allowed to look like they do in concept art, why couldn't the same type of cartooniness be applied to Bowser's minions? Even Super Mario Bros. Wonder had more expressive Goombas.
I share so many of the complaints in this video, and I’m thankful there was someone who was able to articulate them effectively. To a lot of people these things may not seem like a big deal, and to be honest most of them aren’t , but this game is just small grievance after small grievance piling up to lower the overall experience.
I really wanted to love this game, and I still do enjoy it, but right now it’s battling dream team for 5th place (I never played paper jam so I don’t have it ranked anywhere)
It’s a shame to see so many people dismiss criticisms just because they enjoy the game, obviously there are valid rebuttals, but the vast majority of people I’ve seen just deny any criticism on first sight
Thankfully in a few months I believe we’ll all be able to have proper discussions regarding this game once we’ve all beaten it, but as for me, 40 hours in and having nearly beaten the game, it sadly falls short of the original 3, and in a lot of areas from dream team as well
I get all that, but I just don't see why we're even insinuating this is comparable to Paper Mario's situation back during _those_ days (you know the ones). It's fine to feel mixed about the game or even hate it for whatever reason, I just feel that filing this game anywhere near "this game ruined the series" is hilarious when we've all been malding for a basically a decade over Mario RPGs losing their charm and originality. Like, yeah, this game has issues. Real ones. But even a serious aggregate of nitpicks can't measure up to shit like Paper Jam imo.
It sorta makes me worry about whether or not a future RPG 2 or new traditional Paper Mario is even something we even deserve to get. I get the feeling a lot of the people clamoring for a return to form have an exact image of what their ideal game looks like, and if what we get doesn't match it, we'll start seeing a lot more takes like this.
Oh no this is nothing like paper mario’s situation, and I don’t believe the series is “beyond repair” or anything like that. Like I said, I do still enjoy the game, I’m just extremely disappointed that it falls short of even dream team in some cases, when in my opinion every new installment of a series should be an improvement across the board. Honestly there may be some things that could be easily alleviated with a more powerful switch, such as the lag and load times, but unfortunately that is not the version of the game we were able to play at launch.
It’s not like I wanted this game to be disappointing to me, I spent $60 on it, and I want to see the series succeed, but this entry is just not impressive to me whatsoever, not story wise, gameplay wise, or artstyle wise (definitely not music wise either but that’s a little more subjective). I’m not saying that people are fooling themselves for liking it, but I am tired of specifically the people who dismiss any sort of criticism just because it is criticism
@@SireHound Yeah I feel you on some things, especially the music. I don't like the blind praise either when there are areas which could definitely be improved. I just find it a little comical how videos like this frame the game as if it's spiritually "not a Mario and Luigi game" when the issues he ultimately seems to have so much beef with are tiny, TINY deviations from how the series used to be (hammer holding, A button mapping for Luigi, rank up nitpicks, etc.). Not to mention, a good number of these points were present front and center in past games. Then, when he brings up story, he promptly lists all the character archetypes from the past games he wants back, completely ignoring what this game brings to the table when it comes to continuity and theming (however stunted it may be due to the game's pacing and fairly flat writing, which I won't deny is a valid criticism). It just seems to me that a lot of ire is targeted at the game for the reason of "it just doesn't feel enough like SS or BiS" which...is fine, I guess, but is it really deserving of the "not a true X game" statement? To me, it just felt like another M&L game, albeit a flawed and drawn-out one. Giving Brotherhood the "Problem With Paper Mario" treatment comes across as so incredibly entitled to me when the circumstances of the two videos are worlds apart imo.
I replayed all 5 Mario and Luigi games in preparation for Brothership's release. The good, the bad, the ugly. Brothership has some issues, but calling it an utter failure feels harsh.
The one point I think you're wrong about is saying Luigi's supposed to be a Pikmin. The way I think it's meant to be is less like you send him off to do tasks and more like you do those tasks with him. You know, as partners.
I think the game suffers from less enemy variety than other games before it, and gets to relatively slow start.
Brothership actually has my favorite story out of all the games. But it sort of buries the lead in the first act. I think the idea is to introduce a mystery element and have things unclear at the start, but I admit it comes off as a little aimless.
By the end of it, I felt Brothership stood side-by-side with its predecessors. Sad you don't feel the same.
My issue is that the game is incledible slow, besides the performance issue, every single action feels it takes longer than it should, specially Luigi logic. Plus all the hand holding but that Nintendo for you
@@laytonspuzzle that's the problem it doesn't start to get really interesting til so much later in the game. I can't say it's my favorite story the bond and connections thing was too cheesy for me. Even though it got darker and more serious close to the end which I did enjoy a lot it's still got that cheesy theme in the background and it's really hard to take the game as serious as i wanted to cause it was so corny. Lol. If you took that out and made game get more serious a bit earlier then yeah I'd say the story would be one of the best.
@@laytonspuzzle yeah I replayed all 5 myself and played brothership right after too so yeah I could definitely give a more solid opinion on it.
@@marioandultrachap To me, that theme sounds cheesy on paper but in execution it's done really well and interestingly, even if it is a little on-the-nose. Not to mention, most of the previous games didn't really have... a theme, or point to make? Dream Team got close to saying something about tourism or heritage, but it didn't really stick to its guns. Bowser's Inside Story tugged at my heartstrings with the post-credits scene, but I'm not sure that counts for this.
@@MrArielK You poor soul, you have not gotten to the later part of the game have you?
based and red (and green) pilled
Thank you for sharing your opinion.
See yall? It’s not that hard.
overall I think this is a fair review, but I doubt you played Dream Team and Paper Jam. removing the stat roulette at the end? That started in Paper Jam. Making gear slot +1 not automatically given, but now be a choice? That started in Dream Team.
i dont even get how you can hate the art style i feel like your just into the pixel art style only
i hate how mario & luigi purists won't get over that damn pixel art
@@Yoshizuyuner naw the enemy designs are just bad compared to the older games
@@getpape4126 really? I thought it is nice design, is not the best one, but it still good design. Just because the older are good, doesn't mean the newer one is bad
Great review! Loved that you used the previous games as a benchmark for measuring its quality. Games don’t exist in a vacuum, they exist in the context of what came before and after.
10:48 this change is from Dream Team not Brothership
I’m sorry man I love your videos but this wasn’t it at all
I’m gonna be so honest rn I think the artstyle is intentional.
With the exception of the Toads, everything from Mario’s world looks like M&L, the reason why everything else doesn’t is.. because..
It’s not Mario’s world?????
Of course he’s going to look somewhat out of place, hell, they look out of place in most of their games because they’re surrounded by a whole load of unique species and locales.
To be fair, it's not just the Toads. Characters like Bowser Jr. and _especially_ Kamek are also suffering from the same problem. I'd say Kamek is actually worse than Toad in that regard.
If you released dream team now it would receive the exact same opinion that brothership is receiving. Long loading screens, long and intrusive tutorials, boring world and childish npcs. People loved that game though and that was a shame for me since I had loved the series since SSS released but then again I’m older and I’m not who Nintendo is appealing to anymore and maybe that audience do enjoy brothership.
dt doesnt have long loading times tf?
@@السراقالمجهول well, due to the 3ds limitations, it very much did have long loading times for people
@@Commenter3726 i played it on both new and old 3ds and the loading times were ok in both
@@nope3486 I wasn't a kid by any means when Dream Team came out and I didn't find nearly as childish as this game. It still felt like a game for ages but brothership took the childish gimmick to a whole other level. Outside of the cheesy theme the story at least starts to get less childish towards the end but I think they just forgot what demographics these games appeal to cause it always felt an all ages kind of series. Kids teens and adults can play it and it won't feel too kiddy.
@@السراقالمجهول I don't remember any loading times on Dream Team at all so idk what he's talking about on that lol
My biggest thing with the game is the fact that the levels are so short. Like the content to me is almost non-existent. Now I just started the game not too long ago, but I've already done two islands, and it's just like maybe three or four enemies, and then you basically just get the islands plug and then you move on to a new one. There's basically like no content, & no difficulty. Where are the bosses... where is the expiration...where is the onslaught of enemies...I mean at least give me a grind, even though that annoys some people but at this point is so short you might as well just allow me to grind to Oblivion. I feel like the fan base has waited too long for a Mario and Luigi game, or something close to a paper Mario (which this would also be), just for them to basically seem like they completed the development of this game in like a week.
Yeahhhh no. As soon as you brought up Paper Jam as an example of "how it was before they ruined it" I couldn't even keep watching. Brothership is the grand return of everything that Paper Jam was openly ashamed to use. Unique characters, a story that isn't painfully standard, memorable original villains, did i mention being original?
I genuinely have no idea how you can eat up a sanitized, soulless mess like Paper Jam that has zero M&L flavor outside of Starlow, yet get mad at the game that goes back to having unique interesting characters and a story that isn't just the general Mario status quo played painfully straight, calling THAT the offensively bad one and unironically gassing up the sterile game as a genuine pillar of the series "when it was good"
This game is OOZING with M&L flavor. It has that specific type of enemy design that hasn't been seen since Dream Team, and even a handful of returning original enemies, something that sanitized mess actively avoided because it was openly allergic to anything that wasn't a standard mainline Mario element. I genuinely have no idea how you could call PJ a good entry and this one a disaster, and specifically cite that this one is somehow the one that loses M&L's unique charm. The absolute worst things about Brothership are small nitpicks, it has NOTHING that could possibly be considered worse than sanitizing the story and characters to Sticker Star's level. As far as I'm concerned, there is one game that is an affront to everything M&L stands for, and Brothership is them bouncing back from that game.
@@fawfulthegreat64 that's crazy brothership has its problems but it's way better than paper Jam in every way lol
8:26 you forgot the game is actually called Ownership not Brothership (must be the mandela effect) and you're supposed to send Luigi to puppy school so that he learns how to properly obey all your commands and follow you everywhere. The game was actually originally supposed to be Dogz 3 but they lost the rights so they had to change the skins to something else. Skill issue.
I pretty feel the opposite even though there is an extremely important problem to address :spoiler that are not too much spoiler alert:
The game kinda looks amazing with 3D models very well fleshed out and great animations with amazing cutscenes. However, the quality of the switch does not allow a fluid game with loading times that may be a bit long but especially lags when you have too many characters or effects on the screen.
But for me the main problem is the post-game. Ik RPG aren't made for post-game content, but I've always been disappointed to see the village in constant state of ruins in SuperStar Saga, but here, it affects all the main game (especially concerned with lags) and you don't even get to enjoy more than half of the soundtrack after that, without forgetting a lack of rematch for the bosses (you can with side quests, but they force you to do before the final boss and is only a one-time event).
Man, these comments.. Your review is honest and It's so refreshing seeing that. Mario games are very consistent but this one is just a disappointment. I'm glad you addressed the problems with this subseries' core identity and the creativity being removed.
I'm sorry but anyone who says Paper Jam upholds the series' identity (while it uses nothing but vanilla Mario characters and Starlow is the only M&L thing in the entire game) while this game (which is oozing with M&L-style character design, both new and returning, and has an ambitious story that goes insanely hard) does not is not being honest. Whatever metric comes to that conclusion is just objectively flawed.
what about the comments? It's normal to disagree.
Obviously this guy's opinion is valid but they are still points that I don't get. What's the problem with changing? That doesn't mean you destroyed the saga's identity
Bro, he hasn't even completed the game let alone finish Lushgreen Sea. So his opinion is massively gonna be invalid in the eyes of others including myself for a while until he actually...y'know COMPLETES THE GAME???
“Honest”
Mf he didn’t even finish the game
Gonna be real with you guys I personally would not finish a 40 hour game If I wasn't liking it, that'd just be a slog. I don't even see how the full picture would really change this opinion. @fawfulthegreat64 does bring up a valid point though.
Im surprised you didn't mention the lack of postgame. No boss Rush Mode is still insane.
Well yeah because he didn't even finish the Lushgreen sea. But I do agree with you that was very disappointing.
There's a lot of QOL features added in later games that are weirdly absent here. Where's the progress marker for finding the blocks in previous areas? Where's the music player? Where's the dash socks? Why did we lose on-the-fly saving? Why are tutorials back to being intrusive after Paper Jam and the remakes toned them down? There's like three mandatory shop tutorials in this game.
@@nintendo-sans9723bro didn't even meet Zokket or the Extension Corps or the best Mario and Luigi villain since Fawful.
It’s because the dude never beat the game! Neither did I but I at least am enjoying my time!
Can we not shoot Brothership until it cannot allow Mario and Luigi come back, it is a good game, it has everything I want in a Mario and Luigi game, the art style looks amazing, and the fact that everyone nitpicks this game until all I hear is how it is worse than it is just makes me upset.
@@anthonyoliver418 it's a mixed bag it has everything you want but includes alot that you don't want.
It’s a great game. Loving it so far 👍
As i die hard fan of the previous games, I sadly agree, I honestly dont understand why luigi was changed for the worse like this and the enviotments and enemies just look generic
10:37-11:33 this is just a streach of you telling me you haven't played dream team and paper jam
You know what, this game is a start, lets keep our hopes up, its still an amazing game
The movement in this game isn't 8 directional but rather 16 directional. Just fyi
Great vid Rev! I have yet to play this game but given my love of RPGs, i probably will sooner or later. You said they should've went for the Ocotopath style but i think this 3D style could have worked if they took the extra step. Recently, another RPG released called Metaphor Refantazio. This game was made by many the Persona devs and has a fantastical setting. To complement this, the game has a sort of hand painted look to world and characters, and it looked great. I feel like if Brothership went for a similar style, (obviously with a Mario twist) it could have looked better.
Thanks Rylee! Based on what I've seen of Metaphor, I definitely do agree with you. The style can be done really well given some talent. Though personally, sprite art is just what Mario & Luigi is to me. It's so highly engrained into the series' identity at this point. Admittedly, this is probably just also me being a boomer about it. Even back when Dream Team came out 11 years ago (god), Young Rev was mulling about how much they changed the art style to make it worse. If only I knew...
Mario and luigi brothership is just overhated
Why does it look like that
Perfectly describes my feeling on the game, super disappointing to see this game fall so short.
As an rpg it’s ok? Like 6/10 maybe a 7 but that is so far from the standard of this series.
Would you say its better or worse compared to Paper Jam? Because Paper Jam almost put me to sleep on many occasions.
ok but im gonna be honest, some of his points were already in dream team:
slow loading time is purely because of the device's bad performance, the 3DS just has a lower storage than the switch and just had a lot of limitations, but switch fails to run anything near as good as PC for any type of 3D animation
holding your hammer attacks, i literally did it in paper jam like bro
gear slot level up, like i also did it in paper jam, its not new
and also nitpicking on the artstyle isnt a good and valid criticism.
those points were my problem with this review
i havent played Brothership so i cant say it is good nor bad, but i did see stuff i cannot avoid because i want to have some spoiler free thing, but if things that were already IN previous games and complaining about it NOW? thats not a good review
still, some points are valid, i would agree, but thats just how it always is
Superstar Saga: Lack of innovation
Partners In Time: Too much buttons
Bowser's Inside Story: Too easy
Dream Team: Bad pacing
Paper Jam: Lack of originality
Literal valid criticisms from people that cannot be overlooked, but it did? why? because the game was engaging enough. Its the same as this one, in a few years people will start appreciating this game more like Paper jam, even though it is by far the worse in the series, ive seen a liking of PJ in recent years, that still criticized its horrible originality on enemies.
@@resean2727 honestly it’s slightly better but not by much. The worlds of Brothership can be just as generic as Paper Jam but the world design and story are a bit better.
It really is a toss up, because while Brothership attempts to be a M&L game, Paper Jam feels like one gameplay wise
My biggest disappointment is the story. It had so much potential, yet it's so basic. Is it bad? Nah, but it could have been much better. Why are we immediately transported to Concordia? Why should we care about the new characters? Why aren't they showing us what's happening rather than telling via flashbacks? Why aren't there any major Mario characters like Daisy involved (she's long over due)? Brothership is by the numbers, so I hope that the next one is more experimental.
There aren’t any normal Mario characters like daisy because….its a spinoff….and also why aren’t they showing us what’s happening rather than telling via flashback???? That’s how a good story is presented…you need to figure out what’s happening as it’s presented to you…there would be no point in showing everything right off the bat
I mean, I'm pretty sure one of the main reasons we don't see the old Concordia is because it's destroyed, but im still at the beginning of allsand island so I don't know if you see it later on
If this story disappointed you, Paper Jam must have hospitalized you. Because this is where the series started to give a damn again after that game was a massive nothingburger that seemed ashamed of its predecessors and more interested in wanking off Sticker Star and the NSMB series.
@@fawfulthegreat64 Yeah, PJ sucked. My expectations were higher for the next game's story, yet we got a mid story in Brothership. It has some highlights though.
@@GonFantasma Most of the exposition dumps are flashbacks or things that already happened; that's passive. "Spinoff" isn't an excuse for no characters like Daisy, Wario, Rosalina, etc lol. There's nothing stopping them from doing it, and they've added mainline characters into the rpgs (like Bj, Toadette, etc) over time.
I get and agree with a lot of the sentiments, but even then that feels a tad harsh. That being said I really hope there will be a new game in the future that falls in line a little better
One of the things that nobody mentioned in this game is Bowser. In the previous games (starting from BIS) Bowser had that fantastic character development that brought him in a position of an actually competent villain, look at Dream Team’s Bowser and look at this: this is again the Bowser from SS, seems like his development has just been thrown away. The only good thing is that he calls Starlow Chippy, but aside from that, he was really disappointing, almost like the game itself. I get that they wanted new villains (even though if these are the villains, it would’ve been better having Bowser again), but seriously don’t ruin a great development from the previius games.
Not talking about how forgettable Zokket and Reclusa are, I mean Zokket is too generic and Reclusa almost seems like a cheap copy of Flowey from undertale. They have nothing to do with Cackletta, Fawful, the Shroobs and Antasma.
Yeah, I wish this game had established itself as being between BIS and DT, or maybe even between PIT and BIS. It would've fit his character more.
But I also think Mario RPGs need to be willing to just make a game without Bowser, and let the new villains stand on their own. The constant need to shoehorn him into games where he doesn't belong is a bit annoying. A lot of his roles could be filled by other characters like Wario.
Damn I didn't know they did my boy like that
He does have a lot of good points but, for the character thing, remember IDLE? I mean that's it really. And for the enemies you're not entirely wrong. But there are some weird and new enemies here. But you should definitely play the whole game before dropping your opinion.
Always nice to see when someone is just as let down on something as I was.
I keep trying to go through it in fear of missing something, but this game is a slog compared to the earlier games.
No interconnectivity in the world, braindead exploration, no sense of urgency in story, huge lack of pacing.
It's not even a bad game, just so mid.
@@TheLeetCasualGamer I can agree with this but you have to understand that they were trying something new with the whole island hoping trope. I think that's why the exploration is a little lacking in this game. I'm personally ok with it this time cause I see they were trying to experiment a bit just as long as this isn't something in the series moving forward I don't think it will be though since it was very specific to game in general. I didn't like it either but I can understand the developers wanting to experiment a bit so I'm not too mad at them for that cause at least they're trying to be creative.
I agree and disagree on the urgency. The urgency is there but unfortunately it comes so much later in the game but yeah that goes back to the very bad pacing problem in the game which I think is the number 1 issue with this game if the pacing was better the game would of done better. Because all of the exciting stuff doesn't happen til so much later in the game when they should spreaded out a bit more than they did.
@@TheLeetCasualGamer even Still aside from everything you mention the game still delivered on everything else I wanted so it's a very mixed bag kind of game why I gave it a 7.5/10
Damn, this video really does make me realize that I probably wouldn't love this game if I were to play it like the others. Thanks
Sad that you belive it
Brothership feels like the next era of the mario and luigi series
Era 1 gba-3ds
Era 2 switch
I think where a lot of the faults come from is the facts that basically none of the original staff came back. The biggest let down for me, was the composer. The music in brothership is so painfully basic. But I can definitely see if the next game were to come out. It would follow brothers ship and not any of the other previous entries.
I really hope it doesn't comes to that but I could totally see it.
I'm 12 hours in and it's just a slog to play to the point I'm done and probably gonna sell it.
Imma be real i cant agree with like 99% of your video the only thing that i can agree is the thing with luigi not being able to select with b
Did they patch the he or did I "legally buy" a modded I can control luigi with the B button
I have so many problems with this review mainly you nitpicking the artstyle which is honestly fine
This was our chance to get a VAPORWAVE mario game and they blew it!
The world doesn't look electronics themed at all. Imagine, the world was a giant computer where each area was a different part of the computer. The ice area was the AC unit. The CPU was a lava region. The graphics card an artisan civilization. NOPE! Why are they hiding the premise? If they're so ashamed to make a electronics themed Mario and Luigi game then why do it at all?
what? in japanese its called the "Connector" land, its not based *on* specifically electronics at all, it only has electronic theme people and things is because the whole Island is a pun in of itself because Concordia is the Latin word for Harmony, the peaceful island it was once before, and plays a pun of Connection and Cord
Which are, as you know, The broken islands and Electronics respectively. My point is, Concordia should not be solely be associated with electronics as a whole, just because the species living there are living outlets
also theres a real life ship called Concordia
@@Commenter3726 The game's theme is electronic connectors. As a metaphor for connections and bonds. And even you acknowledge all the people and things are electronic. So why not lean into it further? We could of had something remarkable.
so hyped to see an upload from you man! your videos are prime “eating while watching youtube” material.
Thanks! Hope you had good eats.
@@IREV00 Tetsuo Mizuno the founder of Alpha Dream, was an Executive Producer of Xenogears. Since Xenoblade is a successor to Xenogears, maybe Xenoblade can be a successor to Mario and Luigi?????
Great review
It's a little jarring having Luigi act automatically in the overworld but don't act like it wasn't annoying when you'd jump with both simultaneously and Luigi didn't make the jump and Mario couldn't move until you net up with Luigi on the ground.
Also, the health bars? Who cares? It removes the guesswork for bosses and if you know how to add you would be able to calculate the HP values of regular enemies easily.
Pressing A to select Luigi's attack but B to actually attack is jarring at first but there's no real "right" way to do it. In the older games there were plenty of times I forgot B is the "accept" button only in Luigi's battle menu. The solution the older games had was to make goung back a selectable menu item rather than something with a single-button shortcut. In other words, I would catch myself trying to Press B to reverse an option, which if I were playing as Luigi, would make him select the thing I wasn't trying to select. Say I have my cursor on "Hammer" but then I realize, actually I want to heal. I press B, the universal Nintendo "back" button, but that actually just sends me into the Hammer animation, and I don't heal.
There was never a reality where the gimmick of controlling a character in real-time with a separate button was handled elegantly. There would be dissonance one way or another. Don't act like one way is bad and one way is good, because they're both not as optimal as other RPG's with fully consistent battle controls.
Is Breath of the Wild bad because you seing the sword with Y instead of B?
The Hammer counter thing. Sure it's less hardcore and raw and difficult but have you ever tried to counter multiple attacks in the old games? It just doesn't work. The difficulty doesn't come from the fact you couldn't hold the hammer out forever so much as the startup frames. You couldn't think fast with it, you had to account for the delay which can actually be really annoying when you're trying to learn a new attack pattern.
This game has problems, but never did I consider "the enemies move to a spot" to be one of them.
Pacing is the biggest flaw I think and it really picks up after a bit. Presentation is really just aesthetic and while past games definitely did theirs cooler, this game doesn't do it bad by any means.
The rank up bonuses are not boring. They seriously impact your playthrough because they can't all be chosen and have long-term consequences. The old thing of building your character with small stat boosts was cool, but this new thing actually lets you manipulate the growth rathes of the brothers' stats. You can *guarantee* a stat increases by at least 1 per level up, which is huge. You can make the brothers passively gain 20% more exp. And this adds tremendously to replayability because you can mix and match options depending on playthrough since your choices are irreversible and you can only select a fraction of the available options. The old way worked but just because the new one is different doesn't mean that it doesn't work.
Art style? It took a while to grow on me. Doesn't mean the game is bad, that's completely subjective.
Also, no story? How far have you actually made it into this game?
Going back in previous games was just pressing L. You didn't have to select it in a menu.
@@Baconator2558 Oh. Still not pressing B lol
Why tf did they make him purple!?
Who’s purple?
Sincerly, this opinion makes me think you didn't play Dream Team, Paper Jam and also didn't finish this game
I agree with you for the most part, even though I still enjoyed playing this game, I noticed all the things you mentioned, the game remains only good because it's the return of Mario & Luigi, but many things are wrong and I hope so much that the next one will fix all these problems, in addition to the music which is really a level below + the story much too basic, a villain horribly lame and uninteresting to exist, so much its ambition are zero.
Shameful. I grew up with Mario Sports games on the GBC and GBA that had personality and great writing, worlds, and characters. How far they've plummeted.
I don't know how far you played the game yet, but from the stuff that you are referencing I'm gonna assume you only finished the first great lighthouse.
I don't really think it's fair to make a Video saying that the game isn't good (or more specifically, not as good as the old one's) when you haven't even finished it. I can definitely see why you would dislike the stuff that you played if that was the complete game, but it isn't. This game can definitely drag, and i think that the pacing of the game is by far the worst part of it, but if you say stuff like that the game doesn't have a great variety of enemies without even playing half of it, that seems a but unfair. A lot of the problems you listed were also in the other games, like the hammer thing. I do have to agree though with the enemie (specifically boss) healthbars. I think that a lot of tension is lost with that. It was also a wierd decision to bring back the thing from paper jam, where you couldn't upgrade your stats every level up.
I would recommend you to still at least finishe the game and see if your opinion might change. I'm sorry for you that you didn't enjoy the game so far though
Finally people are starting to share their real thoughts and disappointment with the game. The sales tell the real story even when Nintendo makes people say nice things online
Have you actually played or finished the game? Not saying that there can't be criticism or that the game has no problems. I just think it's an exaggeration to say that Nintendo pays people to say nice things about it
Brothership is alright. To me it's on the lower half of the series, alongside Paper Jam and Partners in Time. The biggest issues for me are the agonizingly bad start (takes around 15 hours to finally get good. Not decent or enjoyable, but genuinely good.), the combat taking forever to give you anything, the mixed handling of Luigi (Luigi Logic elevates him but him being an AI makes him feel far, far less important), and how repetitive it is with the whole islands thing (especially when they pad the shit out of them by making you go back to them, even though they have over 30 islands counting the islets.)
And I agree, the movement is so strange. I didn't know why but now that I've seen that it's 8 directions, yeah. It's weaker than every other game's movement.
it really isnt, the 16 direction thing is not really a problem and the fact that for once bro moves have an ACTUAL use outside of "oh go there and use them" is incredible.
SPOILERS :
The ball and fire/ice flowers being actually useful to start fights with big damages or to move quickly around an area, to me brothership has the best overworld movement in the franchise by far.
The enemies just look so damn bland and lame in this game man and having poor variety makes it even worse.
Good video
11:06 Paper Jam also removed this
I ain't falling for these ragebaits anymore
Is it just me or do battle plugs ruin the game bc I fought bowser and was doing 700 damage with 2 iron balls attack boost and anti bowser minions and beat bowser with using no bros attacks and why dose anti bowser minions work against bowser when he’s the leader and why is the main villain of the game count bleck
Finally someone who agrees the plug characters look boring and out-of-place
Also I agree the game felt kinda cheap because of unreal engine probably
Honestly brothership is an absolute masterpiece, only issue I have is load times and the soundtrack isnt made by yoko
He may be high on those cigaretes, but he is right
Dude they just got back but now you are complaining about art style wow just wow, you just them die don't you and also let them update mario & Luigi brothership button b jump for Luigi
Bowser inside story goat
The biggest problem is the pacing. It's awful. The game is a slog. And I agree with the load times in and out of battles.
I guess paper jam isnt the worst mario and luigi game anymore
No. It really is.
@ i mean the gameplay is super fun tho cant say that for the story tho
Paper jam is better than this crap. Facts
Finish the game, then make a video about it. If you haven't beaten it yet, then whats the point of this review?
I've never played a mario and luigi game, but good god ive heard so many great things about them, but this game never really interested me, it just looks so boring and unappealing, im glad you verified all of that for me. Also Rev, once again great video and great breakdown, some of these comments though are really interesting... when a video gets popular its expected, but im sure you dont need to be told this, but please just keep doing whatever you enjoy, thats where the best content comes from. Take care!!
Thanks Stolenearth! I definitely recommend you play Bowser's Inside Story or Superstar Saga. They are very special games that deserve a playthrough if you haven't already.
@IREV00 I definitely plan on it, I will when I get my hands on something that can play them. I can always trust on you to make quality content!
Yall getting mad over his opinion of the game is really dumb tbh
Not really. It's apparent he hasn't played long enough to form a full opinion.
I don’t care about how nostalgic or what ever people have about the old game this is a new era for Mario and Luigi I have fond memories of super star partner in time and inside story but brothership is a new spin on it I keep the core battle mechanics and tries to bring life into a death series after 10 years nickpicking a artstyle for not being Mario characters enough feel kinda weird knowing we had to suffer through 10 plus years of generic toads with no new characters/ species to bounce off on for years the plug people look wacky and weird no which is intentional as clearly stated it a completely separate world I will agree on the animations they could have used more work but that most of the cast looks great the scenery in some places are gorgeous and a lot of effort trying to recapture the feel of the original it ain’t perfect but I mean you try to recreate a 10 year old game series that has been dead for years and need more sparks of creativity after the failure of paper jam on it release
You can’t make everyone happy but this game try’s so hard
I like sticker star.
idk why people keeping acting like Inside story is the first game of the series...If your gonna compare the root of the series you need to go to Superstar Saga the original game. I say it all the time most of you aren't Mario and Luigi fans you're Bowser fans. call it what it is.
He's doing that
@@xeromachinimas idk inside story was the first game he brought up and I checked out of the video after that cause I was annoyed. If that's the case he should of started off with that. Really I think some people just don't like any game in the series cause it's not inside story when inside story is an anomaly to the series.
@@marioandultrachapHe started with it because it was the first game in the series _he_ played. He then goes on to mention Superstar Saga right after it.
@@Baconator2558 well either way my comment still kind of stands cause I do this trend in the fanbase quite a bit.
While some points are valid, you didn’t even finish the game. At least finish the game before you make statements like this cause not finishing the game makes most of your arguments irrelevant
great video mate
'visual cheapness'
I think the artstyle and colors look fine. It really sounds like you're just nitpicking to nitpick.
I think he moreso meant that the plug characters all look the same (and kinda out-of-place in a mario rpg imo)
No the enemy and npc designs are bad compared to the previous games
damn, maybe i shouldnt buy the game afterall, afterall for me its a big investment so i need to pick which game i buy carefully
thank you for making this video, i dodged a bullet
You literally complain about what dream team had for the half of the video and the other half is some changes that one could get used to easily. And bro, you say there is no story yet you told us multiple characters arcs that you personally dont care. Just say that you didnt like their designs I guess.
I just finished this game and 65 hours later I feel nothing from besting the final boss the second phase sucked and I was getting to a point where I felt fatigued from the game going on and on and on! I just wanted to be done and move onto something else...I'm sorry but this game just doesn't hit for me yes it has its great moments and references it gets better after the first season hell the second sea but ugh it takes too long..m
Your problem doesn't matter and your opinion is wrong.